WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.640 We're just getting a couple of scratchy notes when you're 2 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:04.080 especially emphatic or loud. 3 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.719 I promise not to be emphatic. This entire pod. 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:13.679 Not what your country can do for you and what 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:15.919 you can do for your country. 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.039 Mister gorbitchaw tear down this wall. 7 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.280 It's the Ricochet Podcast, but Steve Hayward sitting in for 8 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.199 James Lilac, joined by Charles C. W Cook and Rob Long, 9 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.239 and we're going to kick around the news ahead of 10 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:31.000 Christmas week. 11 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:32.719 Let's have ourselves a podcast. 12 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:37.119 They're a five hundred plus pages related to healthcare policy, 13 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:38.000 which doesn't. 14 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:39.560 Have anything to do with keeping the government open. 15 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:43.240 There's a one hundred billion dollars of disaster relief in here, 16 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:45.960 which is desperately needed, by the way, but should be 17 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:47.560 its own standalone bill. 18 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:49.000 Ladies and gentlemen. 19 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:52.840 As you know I'm in the final weeks of my presidency. 20 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:53.840 You don't have to clap for that. 21 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:55.679 You can if you want. 22 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:00.679 It's the Ricochet Podcast, Episode seven one. This is Steve 23 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.000 Heyward substituting for the usual dulcet tones of James Lylyax, 24 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:05.079 who's not with us today. 25 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:06.760 But I'm joined by Charles C. 26 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:12.959 W cook and some wandering stranger named Rob Long wandering 27 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:17.560 past right, wandering mendicant, and so welcome, gentlemen. 28 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:19.000 We don't have a guest today. 29 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.200 It's just going to be us kicking around some holiday thoughts, 30 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:24.359 going over some news of the day. But I do 31 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.640 I think want to start by saying, Rob, you have 32 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:31.200 just finished your first semester in seminary on your way 33 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:35.000 of taking fully orders, and I'm interested in that. This 34 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.599 is this venture, this quest of yours in general terms. 35 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:39.959 But also I sort of remember my first semester in 36 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.200 graduate school a long time ago now, and how much 37 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:44.439 more intense it was than being an undergraduate. 38 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:47.599 So I don't know how's it gone. Are you done yet? 39 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.560 Are you learning? Ara Maic? What are the highlights for us? 40 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.760 I have learned. Here's what I've learned. I've learned it's 41 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.480 been a lesson of humility, right, which is good, right, 42 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.519 because that's the sort of the especially an advent. He's 43 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.680 good to remember that. And the humility comes from two things. 44 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:07.760 One the humility of stepping away from politics for a 45 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.800 while and then being humbled by the fact that I 46 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:12.840 had to shell out one thousand dollars from a bet 47 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:14.800 I made two years ago saying there's no way Trump's 48 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:15.199 gonna win. 49 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:17.599 Was that with Anne Coulter? 50 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:20.639 No, I think Ann Culter actually, I think she actually 51 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:22.560 agreed with me two years ago. And it is like 52 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.639 constant cycles and is like always iterating. She's like a 53 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:29.800 you know, kind of a web app. She's always getting better. 54 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.400 I just thought it's just not gonna happen. And also 55 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:38.120 just that I discovered that, you know, I'm I'm a 56 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.080 man of a certain age, and at a certain point, 57 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:48.560 your brain, the human brain, my brain anyway, cannot understand 58 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:57.199 how to memorize biblical Greek. Oh, I just can't do it. 59 00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:59.639 And I'm old enough to know I can't do it, 60 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.639 old enough also to be mad about it, not at myself, 61 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.439 but the idea that I'm supposed to because I because 62 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:08.280 I can't do it. I mean, I just been a 63 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:11.479 giant disaster for me. I kind of feel like, wait 64 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:14.719 a minute, I have a book. Just give me a 65 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.479 class where you teach me how to look this crap up. 66 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:19.560 I'll look it up. That and Hebrew. Just give me 67 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.080 cocktail party Greek and cocktail party Hebrew. And I'm sad. 68 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.120 There's always a book I'm well enough for every When 69 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:27.120 people said to me when in math class, well, you're 70 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.479 not always going to have a calculator, Well, no, I 71 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.840 get I literally always have a calculator. There's always a 72 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:37.199 I got this. There's an app for Biblical Greek is 73 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.360 an app for Hebrew. I don't need to memorize anything. 74 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:42.400 I can't memorize anyway. So that that is the that 75 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.199 that has been very humbling. On the other hand, what 76 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:50.439 I discovered is that it's really fun that that I 77 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.879 recommend it to people. If you've ever had this sort 78 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.560 of sense that wouldn't it be great if my job 79 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.560 today was to read do it? 80 00:03:59.719 --> 00:03:59.919 Oh? 81 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:02.360 Anybody tell you you're too old, because you're not too old. 82 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.439 You're too old probably to memorize Greek, but you're not 83 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.159 too old to do a lot of other great things. 84 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:06.919 So that's money. 85 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.879 Well, you know, I am. They're still saying that youth 86 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:11.000 is wasted on the young. 87 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.280 I've I've well, I've long ago concluded that education is 88 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.040 wasted on the young in many cases too are uh 89 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:21.680 and uh, you know I well, so you're I'm guessing 90 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.000 probably the oldest person in your graduate class. 91 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:28.079 Excuse me, back off, buddy, I am one of them. 92 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:30.319 Okay, but uh, I don't know. 93 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.639 I mean, I think that my observation as an undergraduate, 94 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.199 and I had a lot of you know, older Vietnam 95 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.519 war vets who had come back to college, they were 96 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.480 always that this is in the seventies. They were always 97 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.560 the most interesting people in class, always the best at 98 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.720 drawing things out of both the faculty and us fellow 99 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:47.600 students who were just right out of high school and stupid. 100 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:50.079 Uh and and and and then you know, now that 101 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:52.720 I'm a classroom teacher again myself, I observe the same thing. 102 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.120 The older students are always the ones who have it 103 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.800 together more. Just a little bit of real world experience 104 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:01.199 makes a ton of difference in educate facial venture. One 105 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.560 quick question then I'll see if Charlie has any theological 106 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:04.240 increase for you. 107 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.279 I'm available Charlie to be your spiritual guide. 108 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:12.399 Is there any one particular aspect of this is too broad, 109 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:14.680 I wish I could do more specific, rob But is 110 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:17.800 there any one particular thing that has caught your attention? 111 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:20.480 You weren't anticipating or that's a surprise. 112 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:22.560 Studies, you're just the idea of being a student. 113 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.199 No, in the studies such a matter. 114 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:29.800 As a Christian, there's just a tendency. You know, obviously 115 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.639 it's a you know, come you can get, you come 116 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:33.240 to it in good faith. But there's a tendency to 117 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.600 read the Hebrew Bible as like a preview of coming attractions. Ah, right, 118 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.920 are they okay? This is a spoiler alert. It's a 119 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.439 giant drum roll. And anytime I'm confused or I am 120 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:45.639 reacting in a weird way to something in the Hebrew Bible, 121 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:47.120 I can say, well, you know, here's the problem. You 122 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.879 all need Jesus, that's the problem, and he's on his way. 123 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.759 And I think that's a that's a mistake. And I 124 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.240 you know, I luckily I have two professors in Old 125 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.600 Testament ex Jesus, who are you know, fairly devout Christians. 126 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:07.360 One is the fact of practicing minister. And I'm gonna 127 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.120 say this can sound horrible and racist in one of 128 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.639 those Korean churches that I just can never keep straight right, 129 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:17.800 And they've both been really great about never doing that. 130 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:19.959 And it's amazing when you never do that, and you 131 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:22.439 just that's the thing that's a tendency you always fight 132 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.160 how much the whole thing kind of explodes this. There's 133 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.680 a really there's a reason. I know, I'm going on 134 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.240 and on and on. Although it's ad event, there is 135 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:37.000 no reason in Western political social thought that can explain 136 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:45.519 the explain the persistence of the Hebrew Bible and the 137 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.000 New Testament and their persistence. There is no reason for it. 138 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:51.920 There should be no Jews in the world if we 139 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:57.000 believe in the patterns of history crushed by empires to 140 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.240 the Egyptian Empire and the Syrian Empire and the Babylonian Fire, 141 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.480 and the Persian Empire, then the Greeks and then the Romans. 142 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:08.920 And nobody's going to worship Raw or Jupiter or Zeus 143 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:18.319 or Zoraster or anybody like that. Well, yeah, very few. 144 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.879 And there's how come there's going to be a reason. 145 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:24.839 And I think the reason is, you know, that's why 146 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:26.920 the Hebrew Bibles so fascinating that the reasons. 147 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.399 Well, funny story for you on that, Rob. 148 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.199 I remember remarking some years ago now that the Florida 149 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.279 two thousand election was so close that any group could 150 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.120 claim to have been the swing vote that put Bush 151 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:42.120 over the top, Theoroastrian vote. And the young lady I 152 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.439 was telling us to says well, actually I'm sorrow Astrian. 153 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:48.000 It turned out I met the only she was from 154 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:48.959 that part of it. 155 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.360 Rod and themmigrants, who is now now a federal judge 156 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:52.800 by the way, appointed by President Trump. 157 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:54.560 Will just add that little detail for the fun of it. 158 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:58.360 Charlie, do you have any theological curiosity you want to 159 00:07:58.439 --> 00:07:59.240 draw out of Rob? 160 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.600 Yeah, you got to win back the fire worshiping. Wow. 161 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.360 If he's going to find the grayil for us or something. 162 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.000 Well, the first thing I would say is I would 163 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.839 strongly advise Perry against using the pull quote from your 164 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:17.439 last there should be no Jews in the world. You 165 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:19.720 paused after you said it, and I thought, O, where's 166 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:20.160 this one go? 167 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:21.560 Yeah. 168 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:27.680 I get accused of two positions on religion that I 169 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.919 don't hold. It's a strange existence. One is I'm reflexively 170 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:37.120 accused of being an evangelical because I'm pro life. The 171 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.399 other is that I'm accused of hating religion or being 172 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:42.320 annoyed by it or opposed to it in some way, 173 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.039 which just isn't true. I just don't have it. I'm 174 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.440 a very literal atheist. I'm married to it about Catholic 175 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.159 My children are being raised Catholic. I like religion. I 176 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.600 wish I had it, but I don't, and I'm not 177 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.080 going to say I do until I do, out of 178 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:58.480 respect for myself and others. I was raised culturally Christian. 179 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:02.240 I'm pleased about that. I had a guy on my podcast, 180 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:04.799 Catholic Priest, and we talked about the existence of God 181 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:06.759 a few months ago. It was very good. And someone 182 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:08.960 said to me recently, you know there was a good 183 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.399 conversation because you didn't scoff, And I said, well, I 184 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.480 didn't feel tempted to scoff. I'd have to scoff at 185 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.159 my own wife. I think that'd be bizarre, and most 186 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.360 of my colleagues. So I don't know if I have questions, 187 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:26.039 but I'm certainly interested. And also, you can't escape, and 188 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.600 I don't use that word to imply that I want to. 189 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.080 You can't escape the poll of this time of year, 190 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:36.679 even if you don't believe in the metaphysical parts of it. 191 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.320 If you were raised with it, which I was, and 192 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.639 the schools I went to were Christian and the culture 193 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.559 was Christian, you just can't escape the power of it. 194 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.840 So I just wanted to throw that in there, because 195 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:53.519 even though I don't believe that it is Troo, at 196 00:09:53.600 --> 00:10:02.240 least not yet. My friends keep telling me, Ah. 197 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:56.720 The. 198 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.279 Power of the story is extraordinary. 199 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.080 Well, I'll just two quick observations and then we'll press 200 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:10.679 on to some of the current headlines. One is, Charlie, 201 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:12.919 you mentioned that people assume you must be a religious 202 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:15.960 fanatic because your pro life. You know someone who is 203 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.200 strongly pro life, although it didn't seem to come up 204 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.120 that often in discussions, was Christopher Hitchins. It was not 205 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:25.559 just an atheist, but very hostile to organized or even 206 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:26.759 disorganized religion. 207 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:29.360 Right, he was very strongly. He's not the only one, 208 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:29.720 I believe. 209 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:33.720 The late nat Hentoff was also pro life. Yeah so, 210 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.600 and by the way, they both said it on logical grounds. 211 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.960 Human life has to begin. 212 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.600 Somewhere, well the most logical places, added in your conception, okay. 213 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.000 And Hitchins was blunt about that whatever came up, as 214 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:45.960 he was on all things. 215 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.879 Second, you know, I think I'm with you on you know, 216 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:52.120 organized religion. 217 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.919 Maybe he's an oxymoron, maybe not, But I do sometimes 218 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.480 like to draw people's attention to something. C. S. Lewis 219 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.919 wrote in his book Surprised by Joe, which tells about 220 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.039 him becoming a Christian, and in there he really does 221 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.519 confess that, gosh, I really don't like organized religion. I 222 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:08.759 don't often like going to church. I find it sort 223 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.159 of stuffy and clunky. And so even someone as pious 224 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:16.399 and metaphysically inclined as Lewis has some of your disposition 225 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:16.799 about that. 226 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:18.879 So you're not so much aboutwire. I'll just I don't know. 227 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:21.879 I just can I make a pastoral note, Charlie, Sure, 228 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.799 I go to church because of something that I need, 229 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.200 not something that I have, So you don't have to 230 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:36.120 have it to go. 231 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.039 What do you mean by that? 232 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.000 I mean I feel like that there's something there that 233 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:42.639 I need, and I probably need it more than once 234 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:46.000 a week, and that's why I go. I don't go 235 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.720 as a There's a whole there's an argument now, sort 236 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:50.200 of a big debate, and I'm sure we don't have 237 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.519 to get into this theological debate here, because there's like 238 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.279 as important politics to talk about. There's a department of 239 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.200 the Second Day of the Interior or whatever. But the 240 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:02.440 big debate is who gets to who gets to receive 241 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:06.440 the Eucharist at a church, And the traditional word is 242 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.720 you have to be baptized and confirmed or baptizing coff 243 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:11.399 in some way, so you'd have to be not so 244 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.159 that church, but sort of very conservative. And I'm cerifically 245 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:19.080 talking about the American Episcopal Church, Anglican slice. I don't 246 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:22.000 really know any other denomination. The argument as well, okay, 247 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.480 well if you don't have to be if you haven't 248 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:25.960 been confirmed, maybe at least you have to have been baptized. 249 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.639 And they say the phrase they use is font to 250 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:33.480 table baptism, font to the altered table, to the Eucharist table. 251 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.559 That's the direction you're supposed to go in. And there's 252 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.480 a bunch of other like Lucy Goosey, progressive weirdos like me, 253 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:45.080 who think no anybody can come and receive because it's 254 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.559 not our feast, it's not our table, it's not our invitation. 255 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:55.320 We're just the caterers, and the invitation doesn't come from us, 256 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.159 and the person the invitation comes from famously had an 257 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:06.200 open door policy. So sometimes you go, and sometimes I go, 258 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:08.480 and I and I feel absolutely nothing, and I simply 259 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:10.759 sit there in the pew and I organize my week. 260 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.120 And sometimes I go and I think, why am I here? 261 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.200 I had a bunch of reading to do, and I'm hired, 262 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.639 I'm going to homegoing to take a nap, or I'm 263 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.759 hungry or whatever. I wish I had had that third 264 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.679 glass of wine last night. And sometimes I go and 265 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:25.639 I get close to experiencing what I'm supposed to experience 266 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.159 or what is what is? What is what I've been 267 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.039 invited there to experience, whether I've been there or not. 268 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:32.919 So you know, that's why I go. I go for something. 269 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.399 I don't go as an expression of faith. I go 270 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.120 because I need it. So that's a different way to 271 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.200 look at it. Just that way be my pastoral note 272 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:40.440 to you. 273 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.639 But doesn't it you know, well, I do, and so 274 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.720 I go with my wife and kids. And then there 275 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:55.840 are parts of it that are not canonical, if you will, 276 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:00.000 but nevertheless powerful. For example, the music I grow up 277 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:07.399 that too, So that's partly a matter of reminiscence. The 278 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.519 thing that really matters to me is whether or not 279 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:14.960 I believe the claim at the heart of it, And 280 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:19.080 you mentioned C. S. Lewis. He is pretty big on that. 281 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:25.600 So I can do what you just described, although I 282 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:29.840 don't get the experience that you described unless I'm confusing 283 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.080 it for music sometimes I suppose. But it matters to 284 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.440 me that I don't believe the core claim that it's 285 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.240 being made in the sermon or in the texts. Does 286 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.720 it matter too much? Do you think? Do you think 287 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:45.200 I'm over thinking? 288 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:47.080 I think a lot of people feel that way. I 289 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.399 think that's that's legitimate. I mean these are hard things 290 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.480 to believe, right, I mean it's filled with miracles and 291 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:55.840 weird events, right, so yeah, that should be very hardly. 292 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:57.639 I don't I'm not. I don't think that's a problem. 293 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:01.559 I just want to I want you to. I went 294 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.039 to Israel a little while ago, a couple of years ago, 295 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.440 before before October seventh, but I went. It was in Jerusalem, 296 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.320 and I spent the first few days doing this kind 297 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.919 of thing where I looked around and I was like, okay, 298 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.320 well I had a guide and the guide was like, okay, 299 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.840 here around here is probably where this or that happened. 300 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.720 And so I spent at least three of the days 301 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.320 that I was there just doing this kind of like 302 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:28.279 CSI Jesus, right, there any evidence? You're like, of course, 303 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.480 there's no evidence, right, because it's like what happened twenty 304 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.919 feet below whatever? You know, it happened. You know, Jerusalem 305 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:39.799 has been destroyed and rebuilt many times. And then I 306 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:42.039 stopped doing that, and I said, Okay, what if I 307 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.720 just didn't worry about that part? And what is the 308 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.320 faith that this what is this faith actually asking me 309 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:51.879 to do? And I think we are stuck sometimes in 310 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.240 the idea that the faith is asking us to believe 311 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.399 a set of principles. We have a nice in Creed, 312 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.440 we have apostles Creed. It's interesting with nice in Creed. 313 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:02.200 It lists the very very specific aspects of Christ's birth, 314 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.720 the very specific aspects of his death, the very specific 315 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.960 aspects of Chris Christology, which people been fighting over for years. 316 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.399 It doesn't really say anything about the stuff he did 317 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.039 or said or taught. It's like you're getting a sandwich 318 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.039 with just the pieces of bread and no meat inside. 319 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.799 And I think it's kind of easy, actually not easy, 320 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.519 but it's easier to believe or convince yourself, or convince others, 321 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.120 or believe even truly believe in all of those events. 322 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.399 It's much easier to do that than it is to 323 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.480 actually live the way he told you to live. Yeah, 324 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:32.879 which is one of the reasons why we well, we 325 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:33.519 focused on them. 326 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.200 Well, there's a reason that's called faith. 327 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.440 Charlie and Rob and I some other time, you and 328 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:43.039 I can argue about salvation by grace alone or other 329 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:43.799 aspects of it. 330 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.240 And for the listeners who haven't chased away, who came to. 331 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.240 We're just don't you know, hot. 332 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.759 Well, I'm going to extend the metaphor divine intervention because 333 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.799 maybe the House Republicans could use some divine intervention right now, 334 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.319 having completely flobbed the continuing resolution to keep the government open. 335 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:06.480 And I mean there's a whole lot to be said 336 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:06.839 about this. 337 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.559 The usual people in the chattering classes are aghast that 338 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.079 Elon Musk and Twitter may have whipped up the mob 339 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:17.759 to prevent the House from passing a resolution. Other people 340 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.559 in the grassroots are pointing to a lot of a 341 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.440 technical term is crap that was in the bill. 342 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.440 We could list some and you know, Charlie may one 343 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:27.240 list a few of these. 344 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.319 I don't know what I make about this, Charlie, I'm 345 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.599 sure you're following this, probably more closely than I am. 346 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:41.200 I have a big problem with the tactic that we're 347 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.359 now seeing, which is to wait until the end of 348 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:48.559 the year, throw everything into one bill against the deadline, 349 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.960 then focus in on one part of it that you 350 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.839 think is the most politically popular and claim that those 351 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.000 who don't want to pass the bill as is are 352 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:02.799 opposed to that. They do this every time, they push 353 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:06.200 it and push it and push it, and then they 354 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.279 come up with this behemoth of a bill, one section 355 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:15.240 of which is the Saving Kittens Act. And then you say, 356 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:17.480 I don't think we should do this because of all 357 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.519 of the other things that are in the bill, and 358 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:25.200 they say Representative Cook opposes the Saving Kittens Act or 359 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.279 is blocking the Saving Kittens Act. And now they've added 360 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.480 on to this blame for Elon Musk. Now it's Donald 361 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:36.440 Trump's billionaire friends are blocking the Saving Kittens Act. Well, 362 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:43.720 you know, Congress could right now, literally right now, on Thursday, 363 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:49.359 December nineteenth, take that part of the bill, bring it 364 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.319 to the floor, and vote on it. The argument here 365 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.920 is that there are portions of this continuing Resolution that 366 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.480 have overwhelming bipartisan support that would never be fit lebusted. 367 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:05.519 They wouldn't even need a full chamber in either part 368 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:06.480 of the legislature. 369 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.400 So do it. 370 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.759 If it is imperative that we have disaster Aid, which 371 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.000 is this year's Saving Kittens Act. I think there's a 372 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.559 lot of pork in there, and a lot of problems 373 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.839 by the way that it's been structured. But if that 374 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.279 is imperative right now for North Carolina, for Florida, for elsewhere, 375 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.119 go do it. Just pull it out, do it, and 376 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.200 then keep arguing about the rest of the stuff. But 377 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.839 of course they don't want to do it. Now. You 378 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:28.720 are going to have some degree of that in any 379 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.039 democratic system because people horse trade and they should. You 380 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.039 can't have politics without it. I would love it if 381 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.000 every single part of every bill were voted on separately, 382 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:38.960 so we could see who voted for what. But you're 383 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:40.400 never going to get that. You are going to get 384 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.880 quote pro quote, but this there has to be some 385 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.319 space right between every part of every bill being voted 386 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.160 on independently and yes or no at the end of 387 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.039 the year. So I really object to this tactic, and 388 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.359 I think it is a good thing. Irrespective of the 389 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.839 motivations or whether or not there's a plan. I think 390 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.400 it is a good thing. That's someone has finally said no, 391 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.200 just to make the argument against it. Even if we 392 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.160 end up with a bill that looks very much like 393 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.319 this continuing resolution and then we have to have the 394 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:11.319 same fight next year. 395 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:13.799 Yeah, yeah, oh gosh. 396 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.440 I could go on all day about the incompetence of 397 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.039 this whole scene. 398 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.920 The fact that it doesn't follow the law, which. 399 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.079 Is now almost fifty years old, about how Congress is 400 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.839 supposed to pass the budgets every year. And then second, 401 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.559