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I'm actually I'm heading to speak at the Central Veterinary Conference.
I will be in Washington, d C. Pretty excited about that.
And I also wanted to talk about something and it's
been it's been on my list of things to talk about,
and the more I learn about it, and again, the
important thing for us as veterinarians is where we never
know too much that we should stop learning. And as
clients come in and I have a big, full time
practice out here in Los Angeles, and I find myself
having to explain this so much that I realize, I'm
sure this is not just my clients, but I'm sure
that this is other clients as well. And the issue
is dentistry. And we are going to talk for a second.
Speaker 3: We have a caller.
Speaker 2: Of course I want to take that call, but as
soon as we're done here, we are going to talk
about teeth cleaning groomers who do dentistry all these things,
and we are going to set the record straight so
you are well equipped to make sure your pets teas
stay in tiptop shape and their mouths and organs very important,
stay healthy. So before we get to that, we have
a caller on the line.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Hi.
Speaker 4: Hi, oh, I think I called it the perfect time.
Speaker 3: I certain did, absolutely go ahead. Okay, who am I
talking to? Let's get that straight.
Speaker 4: Oh, this is Lisa.
Speaker 2: Is by Lisa Ohio. And do you have a dog
or cat or both? Ye're both okay, and you have
a question about teeth. You couldn't have called that a better time.
So what's your question?
Speaker 4: Well, the chief question is this, I don't think what
dog food is so good for the dog's teeth, but
my husband thinks they must have white dog food. So
I'd like to know what your thought is on that,
because you know, and then the second thing is I
noticed some tarder on my dog's teeth. She's almost not
I'm a little nervous to take them to the dentist. Okay,
they have to go put under it, you know, right,
So you know the hard tarder that kind of almost
it's like it's such like a hard shell.
Speaker 2: On some of the teeth, right, all right, so actually
these are perfect. I'm so glad Lisa that you called,
because these are some of the things I wanted to
cover anyway. So let's first talk about the wet versus
dry dog food. It's very interesting because we've all been
taught that we should be feeding our dogs especially dry
dog food, because they crunch and they chew, and all
these good things happen when they eat the dry food,
and it is going to curb the amount of plaque
and tartar build up. And I can't deny there is
some truth to that. But here's what I find very
very interesting, and out of the following that if you
look at a dog's mouth, and if you take for example,
your dog who's accumulating the tartar, and you look at
the different groupings of the teeth. A certainly in the
front you have the incisors. Incisors are for cutting, and
clearly our domesticated dogs don't have to do a lot
of cutting of their food to eat. Then we have
the four canines. Those are the big fangs, and those
are again historically for tearing, and again our domesticated dogs
don't really need to do a lot of tearing to
get to their food, So what do they do. We
feed them foods that they chew, and the sets of
teeth that do the chewing the most are going to
be the premolars and the molars. What I find so
interesting is if you look at a dog's mouth and
where they accumulate the most tartar and the plaque, it's
interestingly those teeth, of course that they're using to chew with,
which are the premolars and the molars. And of course
the dry food we're feeding them should by definition, which
is what we've all told you, is to start keeping away,
preventing some of this tartar from building up because of
all the abrasive action of the chewing. But when you
look at the teeth, which teeth accumulate the most tartar
by far, it's the premolars and molars. So that's sort
of counterintuitive. So one can argue that, well, the reason
why they're accumulating these is they're being to use the most,
and they are actually touching the surface of the food
the most, and therefore those are the ones that are
getting the tartar. But the argument against that would be
Wait a second, if we're feeding dry food, which is
supposed to break away and stop this tartar from building up,
why are they getting tartar on those teeth. So the
answer is I think this is you know, if you
could do your own home study, and that is you
feed your dog dry food, like apparently you have been
feeding dry food, and feed you do a teeth cleaning.
We're gonna get to that in a minute, and then
for the next couple of months, year six or whatever,
feed canned food and truly see does your dog truly
accumulate even more plaque or tartar than it did when
he was eating the dry food. So I'm a big
fan of dry food for a number of reasons. A.
It's easier to store, it's usually more cost effective. I
find my dogs actually like crunching and chewing on food. Now,
there are some really good dry foods out there that
are tartar control diets that the actual dry food kibble
is manufactured, made to a braid off the tartar to
actually kick it off, because it's very hard. They very
hard crunchy foods. They kind of break apart like car
glass where instead of shattering and going all over the place.
It just breaks into Each time they bite, the pieces
get smaller and smaller, but they stay right there, so
then by the time they get really small, it is
like sandpaper on the surface of the tooth, helping to
cut away or to remove a lot of that plaque
build up. Now, what is tartar basically starts as plack.
Plaque is a film, and then the saliva and the
bacteria of the mouth work on this plaque, work on
this film, and with the mineralization, it actually hardens and
starts to adhere to the surface of the tooth, and
we call that tartar or calculus. Once it's on that
surface of the tooth, it's going to be very difficult
to remove. Even the best toothbrusher out there will not
be able to remove the tartar. It's going to need
professional cleaning. Whereas if in the form of plaque, where
it's still that film, then that with good brushing, good
oral hygiene can be removed. And if it is removed,
hopefully there will be nothing to work on it as
far as the bacteria in the mouth and the saliva
with the minerals to harden it into non removable tartar
or calculus, So there's really no winner to the argument.
I think that I like the dry food better. However,
if you're seems to like canned food, there's nothing wrong
with adding some wet food to the diet. Just keep
an eye on the fact. Yeah, I think it's great. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I do that with my little dogs. I have five dogs.
Speaker 2: I have three big ones, two Labradors and a labradoodle,
and I have two little ones. I have two French bulldogs,
and the frenchees get a mixture of dry and canned
and they're happy as can be. So I have no
problem with that to do a little mix. Now let's
talk about the cleaning. This is kind of what I
wanted to get to, as you've already learned, I'm sure, Lisa,
because this is one of the reasons you call is
that the industry, the experts recommend full anesthesia to do
a teeth cleaning. And I often fought that, and I
still do to a degree, and I have my alternative.
But I will tell you that in many municipalities, many states,
it is actually now against the Veterinary Practice Act, which
makes it against the law for a non veterinarian or
a non veterinary staff person under the direct supervision of
a veterinarian to touch a metallic instrument to the surface of.
Speaker 3: A pets tooth.
Speaker 2: If they do so, that is being considered practicing veterinary
medicine without a license. They can brush the teeth, they
can wipe the teeth with a cloth or with a
little rubber fingerbrush, but they may not actually scrape tartar
away from the teeth in fear of violating the law
of practicing veriny medicine without a license. So sometimes they're
if this anesthesia free groomer comes into a vets office
once a week or whatever, and the veterinarian's right there,
that is acceptable.
Speaker 3: Now what No, this.
Speaker 4: Would be out of debt's office, and they always require
blood tests to make sure it's okay. That's not going
to be So I'm just worried about the YEA.
Speaker 2: So you know, that's one of the reasons that the
blood test is because the blood tests will let us
know that, yes, the dog is healthy.
Speaker 3: But I will tell you.
Speaker 2: This for all of you out there listening and are
under the false impression by looking at your pets teeth
after a cleaning from a groomer or a non veterinary
quote on dentist who's not really a veterinarian. Let me
share this study with you. This was done by a
board certified veterinary dentist and it was a several year study.
And what he did is he followed monitored a number
of a fairly large number of dogs that were going
to these groomoring locations for their teeth cleaning. And he
contacted these owners and on his dime, he asked them
to come to his office for pre cleaning pictures and
then to come back to his office afterwards for post
cleaning pictures.
Speaker 3: Well, he and this was all on his dime. It
cost the owner nothing.
Speaker 2: He followed two groups of dogs, one group that had
their regular dental cleanings from a veterinarian with anesthesia, and
the other group that was going to these whatever, these
non anethesia dentists or teeth cleaners. And after the course
of several years, what he was doing he was not
only taking post cleaning pictures, he was also taking post
cleaning radiographs, oral films and following these dogs for it
three or four years. And after the three or four years,
the group that was done without any kind of sedation.
The bone destruction at the root of these teeth was dramatic.
Why because when you have a dog, I don't care
if this is the best dog on the planet, if
he is an awake dog, and you take that tartar
scraper or you take that ultrasonic scaler and you try
to get below deep into the gum sockets where it's
gonna bleed. It's going to cause discomfort, it's going to
cause pain, and expect that dog to sit still through
it all. You are kidding yourselves. It is not gonna happen.
So Consequently, though the surface of these teeth looked fantastic,
what was going on under the gum line part that
you can't see, the part that they could not really
clean well and they couldn't access in an awake dog
really led to major, major oral and health problems. So
the bottom line is it is unacceptable now what some
of us do. There are some agents out there that
kind of put the dog or the cat even into
what's called they like a twilight sleep, almost like a
person who goes to the dentist has major major nervous
issues at a dentist, as many people do, and the
dentist uses nitrous oxide gas otherwise known as laughing gas,
where the dentists can pretty much do everything he needs
to do and the patient is sitting there. They may
know what's going on, they may not, but they just
don't care. And with under this type of sedation, these
animals are still you can intubate them, which means you
need to put a tube down the throat to protect
the lungs from the mist that is going to be
created by doing all this cleaning, because we don't want
to inhale all these oral bacteria that are going to
be aerosolized from the instruments that we use to clean
the teeth. So you need to intubate. You like to
deliver some form of oxygen, even if it's not going
to be with an anesthetic gas.
Speaker 3: And they're hooked up.
Speaker 2: To monitoring equipment, so we're monitoring their blood pressure, monstering
their heart rate, their respiration rate. So these are all
important things to do. Even if they're not going to
be one hundred percent completely fully anesthetized, they're going to
be fairly heavily sedated.
Speaker 3: Now, good question.
Speaker 4: Sure, I'm getting about to phone in Canaria where my
phone's just put up. So basically you save you the
blood test and the dog is healthy enough then to
be put under obviously, and it's done at a best
office and it's been done there before, and I have
very good confidence in my vet so that it would
be saved. You know, he's going to be almost nine.
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, As I said, the point is when we
do this, we have them hooked up to obviously anesthesia,
they have oxygen, they have an IVY catheterin, so if
there's any problem, we have already have a direct access
to a vein and they're being hooked up to the
monitoring equipment. So everything is fine. So if there's any
kind of like extensive work that needs to be done
to the teeth or the gums, then clearly they need
to be an esthetized. If it's just a fairly routine cleaning,
the amount of plaque or tartar isn't that bad, then
I would recommend maybe some sort of lighter type of anesesia,
like a try light sleep, but you need to use
something or else. You are doing these dogs a disservice
under the guys that the teeth are going to look
great afterwards. Whichever way, you go, so you really want
to be very very very careful.
Speaker 4: All right, all right, don't make you expointment. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3: You're very welcome. Take care, thanks for calling you.
Speaker 2: Thank you all back in, mark and mark your information
and we'll send you out a pro sense product and
a great contoy which by the way, are great for
pets teeth.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, wonderful, thank you, Bye bye, thank.
Speaker 3: You, bye bye.
Speaker 2: And it is that time for us take our quick break.
We're going to do, so don't go away. We'll be
back in just a few minutes. You're listening to pet
Life Radio Ask the Bets with doctor Jeff and I
am your host, doctor Jeff Werber, and we'll be back
in just a minute.
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Speaker 9: Let's talk past, Let's done about life radio Headline Radio
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Speaker 2: And welcome back to doctor Tadam. I'm doctor Jeff Werber,
your host here on Hetline Radio. And we just had
to call them, Lisa, and it was actually very timely,
so you could not have picked the better time could
call and ask about teeth. And for those of you
that have missed part of the call, we're just talking
about the importance of having a veterinarian or a veterinary
staff member. Do your pets dentistries. Do not, I repeat,
do not rely on these groomers that say that they
can clean teeth, these not anesthetic dentistries.
Speaker 3: That you are doing your petitive service.
Speaker 2: Yes, the teeth looked great afterwards, and in a pinch,
it might be fine. If you're going to frequent the
dentist or your veterinarian for teeth cleaning, maybe twice here
and one of those times you want to do it
at this groomer. Maybe that's okay, But don't think for
a second that for long term multiple cleanings, you are
doing your peta service and saving yourselves money and your
pet stress and trauma by not having to have them anesthetize,
because in a long haul it's going to be hurting
your dog and it's going to come up against you.
I mean, the best alternative would be some sort of
really really good, more mild sedation, and that would be
kind of my recommendation if anything is to do that.
In fact, that's traditionally that's what we do at our
hospital is when we have teeth that we know are
not going to need any extractions, that we know are
going to there's no major gumwork, and we have clients
that are very compliant and they come in regularly, then
we can do is kind of a twice light sleep.
And the beauty of that as well is that if
in the process of doing our cleaning, we already have
a Catherine place, we already have the dog intubated, which
means they have an endotracheal tube and they're down there
at trachea A is an airway device to make sure
we have a good airway, and B to prevent any
of the aeralization of the debris the bacteria in the
mouth from being inhaled into the lungs. That if there's
something that changes, if we see, oh my god, this
tooth look pretty good, but now that we're getting into it,
it's rotten and the gums are bad. We need to
actually provide some true anesthesia. Everything is in place, all
we have to do is turn on the gas. And
for some reason people are so afraid of general anesthesia.
And I mean not to say that mistakes or problems
can never happen, or weird reactions can never happen, but
they are really really rare, and typically when we use
the general anesthetics, especially the newer ones like isofluorine civa fluorine,
they are really really safe and fortunately very few of
us have any kind of problems, and we take during
the procedure before the procedure are so great that there
really isn't reason to be afraid. You are actually should
be more afraid of the ramifications of not having a thorough, professional,
accurate teeth cleaning done. Then the fear of the risk
very low risk of certain anesthetic procedures. You know, when
you again, most of us are going to want some
sort of blood work done before anesthesia. If you have
a very fairly young, healthy pet, the blood work need
not be extensive and therefore not expensive either. And of
course if an older dog, well, you want to have
some accurate current blood works. You want to know what's
going on. You want to know how your dog is
doing as far as liver and kidneys and pancreas and
all these good things. So it's really not the end
of the world.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: That brings me to another point, and I know i'm
speaking for I'd love to say all of my colleagues.
I obviously can't without knowing them all. I can't say
this for sure, but I would say the vast majority
of veterinarians out there don't gain pleasure out of pulling teeth,
which means that when we have to pull a tooth,
there is good reason either because the tooth is very
loose and rotting, either because the oral the dental X
rays show a major degree of bone destruction. And again,
I want to something you're aware of because when you
understand the process and then you hear from your veterinarian,
it will actually help you more deal with realities. Here's
a reality when plaque and tartar or i should say
first plaqu and then tartar or calculus builds up on
a tooth surface. As you all know, it is three dimensional.
It takes up space. What you see on the surface
of the tooth is actually also accumulating above or under
the gum line, which means that in that socket, that
bone socket, there is plaque firstly and then ultimately hardening
to tartar that is filling the space little space at
first between the bone and the tooth, between the root.
When you now go in for a thorough cleaning that
removes all of this tartar and this calculus, you can
now clearly see that that which was taking up space,
almost acting like a cement, is no longer there. So
now the tooth is going to start rocking and rolling.
So when you're in the office with your veterinarian and
you're going over the teeth and he lifts up the
lip and he's feeling the teeth and maybe you know,
touching a little probe, and the tooth seems totally solid,
and you leave the office that day, leaving your pet
for the dentistry, and you're thinking, oh, that's great because
my dog's teeth are all solid in the bone, and
all of a sudden you get a call in the
middle of the procedure saying, you know what, we need
to pull three teeth? What do you need to pull
three teeth? You showed me they're all great. It's because
when you get all of that to breathe cleared away.
Now nothing is there to take that space between the
root of the tooth or the surface of the enamel, okay,
and the bone or the socket or the gum. And
now all of a sudden, these what were two three
hours ago firmly rooted, seated teeth in the bone are
now rocking and rolling loose. And that is just a
recipe for major infection. So just know that your doctor,
your veterinarian, is not pulling teeth because he or she
likes to. They're not doing it because they want to
rack up the bill. Trust me, when it's being done,
when it's being recommended, it's because there is no better alternative.
And another thing you might want to know, and if
you don't already, there are and this is just for
your own knowledge and maybe something you can speak with
the veterinarian about. There are veterinary dentists out there. These
are veterinarians that went to four years of veterinar school.
They then did an internship and a residency in veterinarate dentistry,
which covers all aspects of orthodontia and periodontal and endodontics.
And they do root canals, and they do pulpotomies, and
they do orthopedic procedures, and they'll fit with braces and
bite plates and you name it. They shave down teeth
if need be dogs that are like aggressive dogs that
are doing a lot of biting, whatever it is. They
are experts in teeth. So if there's any a time
that you are a little bit reticent, for a little
nervous about your own general practitioner recommending something and you
really want to know, well, g doc is there? You know,
can I see an expert? Yes, Veterinary expert dentists do exist.
So just you can look them up online in your
area and they will be board certified by the American
Academy Veny Dentistry or the American College of Veterany dentistry
and these are bored certified dental specialists that you could
see if you have any real major issues with your
pet's mouths, teeth, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Anyway, it is that time, so I want to thank
Lisar Koller.
Speaker 2: Any of you if you if you want to talk
more about this or anything, go ahead and send me
a little note to doctor Jeff at petlife radio dot com.
Join us on Thursdays at eight seven seven three eight
five eight eight a two come online to pet Life Radio.
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So looking forward to seeing in two weeks and again
you can always reads me at doctor jeffetpetlife radio dot com.
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