Speaker 1: Hey, folks, my name is Spencer Claven. I'm the author
Speaker 1: of a brand new book, How to Stave the West
Speaker 1: Ancient Wisdom for five Modern Crisis, available now wherever you
Speaker 1: get your books, and I'm really excited to be joining
Speaker 1: here on the Doctor Sky Experience Talk Radio seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 2: And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to the exciting programming
Speaker 2: and shows that you tell us who likes so much
Speaker 2: on America's incredible iconic radio station, the crown jewel of
Speaker 2: radio talk radio, seventy seven WABC, the proud home of
Speaker 2: the Doctor Sky Experience. As we talk about amazing subjects
Speaker 2: as you know, folks from the realms of astronomy, space, aviation,
Speaker 2: and weather and celebrity in the mix, and also very
Speaker 2: proud to talk about American exceptionalism and our close association
Speaker 2: with the good folks at Regnery. Bring us to a
Speaker 2: brand new author and a brand new book from this
Speaker 2: great publishing house, and in just a few moments we'll
Speaker 2: meet Spencer Claven. He is the author of How to
Speaker 2: Save the West, Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises. About
Speaker 2: set the stage before we introduce our guests about the
Speaker 2: subject matter Western culture is in a state of crisis.
Speaker 2: Objective truth is replaced by virtual reality, humanity by transhumanism,
Speaker 2: meaning by meaninglessness, religion by wholehearted devotion to scientism, and
Speaker 2: the Republican government by the liberal internationalist regime. But in
Speaker 2: How to Save the West, Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises,
Speaker 2: Deliwire podcaster and Oxford educated classicists, Spencer Claven outlines a
Speaker 2: compelling plan for how to overcome each of these crises.
Speaker 2: Before then, let's get a little bit of a bio
Speaker 2: on our special guest. Spencer Claven, a scholar, writer, and
Speaker 2: a podcaster, has a lifelong devotion to the great works
Speaker 2: of the Principles of the West. After studying greet and
Speaker 2: Greek and Latin an undergraduate at Yale, he spent five
Speaker 2: years at Oxford, turning his doctor in Ancient Greek literature.
Speaker 2: Now an editor at the Clarmont Institute, has written for
Speaker 2: many outlets including The Atlantic, Los Angeles Times, City Journal, Newsweek,
Speaker 2: The Claremont Review of Books, The Federalist, and so much more.
Speaker 2: He's proud to hail from one of America's great cities, Nashville, Tennessee,
Speaker 2: and we welcome you to the Doctor Sky experience, Claban.
Speaker 2: Thank you, mister Clavin. Welcome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for having me.
Speaker 2: Well, this is an interesting book, and i'd really like
Speaker 2: you to set the stage. Obviously, many people out there,
Speaker 2: no matter what their political persuasion is, they realize that
Speaker 2: there's something wrong in the entire planetary system with humanity here.
Speaker 2: And it's a shame to talk negative. We always like
Speaker 2: to talk positive. But in your book you bring up
Speaker 2: five easily an identifiable essential crises. I like get to
Speaker 2: start first off by telling us a little bit more
Speaker 2: about yourself because the Claremont Institute, I think we've had
Speaker 2: a few guests over the twenty years that we've been
Speaker 2: doing this, but Claaramont Institute describe it in some detail
Speaker 2: for our listeners here on the Doctor Scutt Experience.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely Well. The Institute, I'm proud and grateful to say,
Speaker 1: is a think tank devoted to the recovery of the
Speaker 1: American idea. And I know that's something that's near to
Speaker 1: your heart as well. You know, these founding documents that
Speaker 1: come down to us in this country, the Declaration of Independence,
Speaker 1: the Constitution, but also the federalist federalist papers in defense
Speaker 1: of our system of government, articulating at great length the
Speaker 1: rationale for it as compared to other possible ways of
Speaker 1: doing government, as compared to other countries that existed at
Speaker 1: the time, and digging really deeply into the prior history
Speaker 1: of Western philosophical and political thought. These are such precious
Speaker 1: parts of our inherentans, and the Claremont Institute exists to
Speaker 1: put them forward, to explain them to people, and increasingly
Speaker 1: today to defend them against any number of really outlandish
Speaker 1: charges based on false or misleading accusations against the men
Speaker 1: who wrote these texts down against the founding fathers. This
Speaker 1: is one area of many where you will hear again
Speaker 1: and again that our roots are rotten, our past is bad.
Speaker 1: The racism of this country is built into its DNA
Speaker 1: as one way of unpopular way recently of putting it
Speaker 1: in the sixteen nineteen projects. And besides being just relentlessly depressing,
Speaker 1: this idea is also incredibly arrogant and false. You know
Speaker 1: the question that I always come up against their ask
Speaker 1: again and again when I meet with these sorts of
Speaker 1: accusations that I do all the time, is you know
Speaker 1: who was it who taught you that all men are
Speaker 1: created equal? Who puts the footing underneath you to criticize
Speaker 1: the Founders on these terms, And of course it was
Speaker 1: the founders themselves, this great tradition that they were digging
Speaker 1: into the wisdom of Athens in Jerusalem, which makes up
Speaker 1: the civilization that I mean when I call the West
Speaker 1: that wisdom is what I'm offering to people in this
Speaker 1: book because of how precious it is, because it really
Speaker 1: doesn't just fall out of the sky. It comes from somewhere,
Speaker 1: and we ought to take ownership of it.
Speaker 2: Well well said, I mean, this is a great time
Speaker 2: to discuss these problems and also solutions, and again we
Speaker 2: like to be positive here on the Doctor Sky Experience. Again, ladies,
Speaker 2: enter are a very special guest, a scholar, a podcaster,
Speaker 2: and so much more. His name is Spencer Claven. His
Speaker 2: new book How to Save the West, Ancient Wisdom for
Speaker 2: Five Modern Crises. He's with us here on the Doctor
Speaker 2: Sky Experience on the iconic radio station, the Crown Jewel
Speaker 2: of Radio as we call it, off Radio seventy seven
Speaker 2: WABC out of New York, around the nation, around the world,
Speaker 2: and probably even out to the universe. So let's describe
Speaker 2: these crises. But before we do that, you're studying an
Speaker 2: insight from Plato, Aristotle, the Bible, and the found the Fathers.
Speaker 2: Is I think so compelling and so important as we
Speaker 2: explore these crises, and you also offer some very viable
Speaker 2: solutions to how people might get in check with these problems,
Speaker 2: and hopefully I think this book should be on everybody's
Speaker 2: book list. Don't you think I mean this is important? Well,
Speaker 2: let's describe these crises. I mean, this is interesting. I
Speaker 2: rather you go into them and said, you know, you're
Speaker 2: the author. The first one is and describe the first
Speaker 2: crisis in order that you have listed them in the book.
Speaker 1: I will, And maybe I'll just say at first to
Speaker 1: the outset what I mean even by the word crisis,
Speaker 1: because this is where we throw around a lot in
Speaker 1: our news. We have a crisis in the supply chain,
Speaker 1: a crisis, COVID crisis, and a lot of these things
Speaker 1: are real and serious problems. But when I use the
Speaker 1: word crisis, I'm actually trying to get something a little
Speaker 1: bit deeper for people to understand what's behind a lot
Speaker 1: of this. Greek krino is a word that means I
Speaker 1: decide or I judge, and so a true crisis is
Speaker 1: points the time for choosing. And what I lay out
Speaker 1: in the book is that you know, yes, we have
Speaker 1: all of these modern problems that are kind of coming
Speaker 1: up day by day, and it's hard to understand where
Speaker 1: they came from. But actually underlying that, what we're really
Speaker 1: grappling with is ancient questions, fundamental questions, and we're trying
Speaker 1: to find a way forward according to those you know,
Speaker 1: basic ideas. And so this is the first crisis, is
Speaker 1: the crisis of reality. Is there such a thing as
Speaker 1: true and false? Or is it all just my truth
Speaker 1: and your truth? And I argue that the only way
Speaker 1: to form a productive society is to argue that yes,
Speaker 1: there is absolute truth, which leads us into this second question,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, how can we know that truth
Speaker 1: if we're living in this world of change and decay.
Speaker 1: You know, we have these bodies that break down and die,
Speaker 1: and preaching me it seems as if people want to
Speaker 1: transcend them. The transgender movements, the transhumanist movement, which is
Speaker 1: even more extreme, a notion that we should get out
Speaker 1: of our bodies is actually very old, and I present
Speaker 1: some ancient wisdom for kind of dealing with ourselves and
Speaker 1: our humanity in a sane or away, understanding ourselves as
Speaker 1: embodied souls rather than just you know, kind of define sparks,
Speaker 1: dealing with these uncomfortable encumberances called the body. Then we
Speaker 1: move on to these two crises, the crisis of meaning
Speaker 1: and religion, which is really where we get to the
Speaker 1: heart of the matter, because in all of this, I
Speaker 1: think we're trying to find out is there anything that
Speaker 1: you know gives life meaning and direction? And a lot
Speaker 1: of our modern scientists, and I'm not talking about people
Speaker 1: that do science, people who believe that science is the
Speaker 1: full description of all the world, is all just matter,
Speaker 1: there's nothing else. There's a pervasive narrative that that's the
Speaker 1: only way to understand ourselves. But that's not enough. We
Speaker 1: don't actually believe that. We don't live that way. And
Speaker 1: so in the second part of the book, I'm talking
Speaker 1: about what you know, what is beyond just the physical
Speaker 1: fleshly here and now, And I'm arguing that the tradition,
Speaker 1: which shows us that God is worthy of worship is
Speaker 1: still the best tradition for thinking about these things. Then finally,
Speaker 1: you know your listeners, and you and I both care
Speaker 1: a lot about the American regime, and that's what this
Speaker 1: last section is about what to do what America has
Speaker 1: founded to be, and how we can have hope for
Speaker 1: saving this great nation that we are all blessed to
Speaker 1: be a part of.
Speaker 2: Well well said, and I want to jump into one
Speaker 2: of these, particularly the crisis of Reality. And I found
Speaker 2: that most compelling because it kind of gives me a
Speaker 2: little jerk in the knee here and it breakes my
Speaker 2: It makes me wake up to think about a problem
Speaker 2: called virtual reality. And in the book, without stealing your
Speaker 2: thunder sirt, you go into great details about what I
Speaker 2: consider to be in your interpretation and writing and my interpretation,
Speaker 2: the dangers of the metaverse and describe this because I
Speaker 2: think this can be a great thing. I mean, let's
Speaker 2: say surgeons can use this technology to even explore ways
Speaker 2: to help doing surgeries better. But you go into a
Speaker 2: much more powerful explanation and a warning I would say,
Speaker 2: if I'm correct, about the dangers of the metaverse. Describe
Speaker 2: that in light of what Facebook has been trying to
Speaker 2: do and this whole metaverse? What say you on this
Speaker 2: an important topic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. You know, there's so much that's good
Speaker 1: that we could do with this technology. And whenever you
Speaker 1: start talking about the dangers of digital tech or the
Speaker 1: dangers presented by this era, it's easy to fall into
Speaker 1: the trap of being accused of just trying to turn
Speaker 1: back time right, trying to unmake the future. And this
Speaker 1: stuff is coming and there's no way out of it.
Speaker 1: But what I'm proposing in the book is there's it's
Speaker 1: one thing for technology to be advancing, but it's another
Speaker 1: thing for people to make a sales pitch based on
Speaker 1: that technology. And it's very telling that when we started
Speaker 1: to develop the ability to create virtual reality goggles or
Speaker 1: these sorts of things, and there was immediately this big push,
Speaker 1: this offer from a certain corner of our elite, to
Speaker 1: turn this into the whole world, to just swallow up
Speaker 1: human life into a kind of imaginary space. And what
Speaker 1: I'm suggesting in the book is that proposition that idea
Speaker 1: that's not inevitable, it's not baked into the technology. It's
Speaker 1: something that our elites belief, which is that there is
Speaker 1: no such thing as true and false, and so it
Speaker 1: would be better if they got to choose what exists
Speaker 1: and what doesn't according to their imaginary world. And that's
Speaker 1: a very very old proposition. I trace it back to
Speaker 1: at least the beginning of Greek philosophy with Socrates and
Speaker 1: his engagement with his own reality crisis, when it was
Speaker 1: very fashionable back in the day to say, you know,
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as true and false, or it's
Speaker 1: all just what you perceive and what I perceive. We
Speaker 1: think this sort of stuff is new, but it's very
Speaker 1: very old. And one thing that means is that we're
Speaker 1: not alone, because in fact, people have wrestled with these issues.
Speaker 1: Socrates themself wrestled with these issues, and he shows us
Speaker 1: that there's really nothing to do but believe that there's
Speaker 1: something outside of us that is true and false. That
Speaker 1: this promise of liberation, this promise of uploading ourselves into
Speaker 1: a virtual reality, it's an old promise and it always
Speaker 1: fails because if there's no such thing as absolute truth
Speaker 1: and absolute falsehood, well then it's all just power. It's
Speaker 1: all just power politics. And that's why you start to
Speaker 1: see people fighting to control the narrative, to censor people online.
Speaker 1: It's because unless we believe in true or false, there's
Speaker 1: just the will of this stronger as the ancients might
Speaker 1: have said, and that's really not a recipe for success.
Speaker 1: Clinging to this socratic notion of the truth, I think
Speaker 1: is so crucial, especially if this virtual reality tech becomes
Speaker 1: more and more advanced.
Speaker 2: Sponser Claven's our guest today here on the Doctor Sky
Speaker 2: Experience on Talk Radio seventy seven WAPC proud to call
Speaker 2: him a friend here. He's a scholar, writer, and a podcaster.
Speaker 2: And most important, it's a brand new regnary book that
Speaker 2: we recommend, ladies and gentlemen, you go out there to
Speaker 2: deep soul search on these very topics that we're talking
Speaker 2: about today. The book is entitled How to Save the West,
Speaker 2: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Crises. I wanted to see if
Speaker 2: you could give us a better understanding of the term transhumanism.
Speaker 2: I've heard many other people explain this to me, some
Speaker 2: rushed and some so detailed that not to put us
Speaker 2: to sleep, but your interpretation of transhumanism and what are
Speaker 2: the dangers that you might see there as you apply
Speaker 2: some of the knowledge that you have, the great knowledge
Speaker 2: from the you know, are ancestors like Plato, Aristotle and
Speaker 2: so many others talk about transhibanism.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I think it's something which this is another
Speaker 1: good example of one of those things. It seems to
Speaker 1: just come out of nowhere, right, came out of left field.
Speaker 1: A lot of people I talk to you think, oh man,
Speaker 1: you know, even just transgenderism. Right, this kind of sudden
Speaker 1: uptick in young people feeling discomfort with their biological sex,
Speaker 1: feeling like they want to do all sorts of really
Speaker 1: horrible things to their bodies to change their bodies. You know,
Speaker 1: it's easy to feel like this is kind of from
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, But if you start to dig into
Speaker 1: the philosophical roots of it, you find once again that
Speaker 1: we're actually up against a very ancient problem, and that's
Speaker 1: the problem of the body and the soul. You know,
Speaker 1: they teach kids now in school they have you know,
Speaker 1: a biological they have a body, but then they have
Speaker 1: something called a gender identity, and this is like sort
Speaker 1: of a floating abstract entity that lives outside of their bodies,
Speaker 1: and they need to kind of change their bodies to
Speaker 1: conform to it. That idea is very, very old. It
Speaker 1: goes back at least to the Neoplatonists, who are a
Speaker 1: kind of branch of philosophy aster Plato, who basically said
Speaker 1: that you know, the body is just a burden or
Speaker 1: an accident, and where we really live is in this
Speaker 1: pure space of the divine, all the good, the true.
Speaker 1: What I show in the book is that this has
Speaker 1: always failed. This is a bad idea, and it always
Speaker 1: ends us up doing horrible things to ourselves. And the
Speaker 1: attempts to get out of to crawl out of our bodies.
Speaker 1: Now we're still doing that now, and we're doing it
Speaker 1: in this kind of trans genderism, you know, craze. But
Speaker 1: that transgenderism craze itself kind of points onwards to this
Speaker 1: bigger idea, which is transhumanism, and that is the notion
Speaker 1: that our technology can help us to get past our humanity,
Speaker 1: that our humanity is kind of outdated, our bodies are
Speaker 1: a burden, and we need to update ourselves using all
Speaker 1: this different kind of tech, or even just upload ourselves
Speaker 1: into the cloud so we'll live in a pure space.
Speaker 1: And since this is an old idea, it has an
Speaker 1: old solution, and that is they know we're not actually
Speaker 1: you know, ghosts in the machine. We're not just these
Speaker 1: kind of floating abstractions. What we are is embodied souls.
Speaker 1: This is this ancient Greek concept referred to as hylomorphism
Speaker 1: meaning form in matter. And whereas you know transgenderism transhumanism
Speaker 1: take us out of ourselves. Hylomorphism says no, you are.
Speaker 1: Your body is not an accident, and your soul is
Speaker 1: not an illusion. The two are wed together as one,
Speaker 1: they are fused, and the body is the language in
Speaker 1: which the soul is expressed. This is a much much
Speaker 1: staner way for understanding ourselves. Even as the technology develops.
Speaker 1: It will help us to be healthier and to regard
Speaker 1: ourselves with more peace rather than this endless craze for
Speaker 1: transgenderism and transhumanism.
Speaker 2: As you've explained that we've explained briefly in your bio.
Speaker 2: You spent five years at Oxford University and earned a
Speaker 2: doctorate an ancient Greek literature. So you're the right person
Speaker 2: to ask this, and I'd certainly like to do that
Speaker 2: with the ancient thinkers out there. What would you think
Speaker 2: is one of those ancient thinkers that really comes closest
Speaker 2: in all ways possible. I mean, maybe this is too
Speaker 2: too difficult the question to answer because there's so much
Speaker 2: material out there, but who strikes you is probably one
Speaker 2: of the best of all examples to study and learn
Speaker 2: about what's going on in this world and describe that
Speaker 2: person to us as one of the ancient scholars.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, you know, it's not quite antiquity, But I
Speaker 1: think a lot about Thomas Aquinas, think Thomas Aquine medieval
Speaker 1: Christian think these days especially, you know, as different challenges
Speaker 1: present themselves, different thinkers become more urgent, more important, and
Speaker 1: a Quinas to somebody that comes up for me again
Speaker 1: and again. He's the author, most famously of the Summa Theologica,
Speaker 1: which is this big dictionary encyclopedia, as he says, you know,
Speaker 1: all matters in questions pertaining to the Christian faith. And
Speaker 1: it's I think a lot of people get scared off
Speaker 1: by that because they think you have to read it
Speaker 1: from cover to cover. You really don't.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Aquinas is a great guy to go to for answers.
Speaker 1: And one reason he's great is because he was up
Speaker 1: against this question that the Church that had to face
Speaker 1: for a while, which is, what does you know pagan wisdom?
Speaker 1: What can Greek philosophy contribute to the traditions of Jerusalem?
Speaker 1: And he does this wonderful job of marrying these two
Speaker 1: pillars of our civilization, the kind of religious side of things,
Speaker 1: if you like, you know, the scriptures and the literature
Speaker 1: of Judaism and Christianity and bringing them together, meeting them
Speaker 1: with people like Aristotle, which is where I got that whole,
Speaker 1: you know, hylomorphism thing. This kind of really rich way
Speaker 1: of thinking about humanity and fusing those two things together,
Speaker 1: I think is a beautiful thing that Aquinus does, and
Speaker 1: it helps ground us, you know, as we feel so disoriented.
Speaker 1: Aquinus kind of stands in this unique place in the
Speaker 1: tradition between Athens and Jerusalem. Who can and he can
Speaker 1: show us that we can take ownership of these traditions,
Speaker 1: that they are not just kind of outdated. We come
Speaker 1: from somewhere. These ideas don't fall out of the sky.
Speaker 1: They have a history in a tradition, and that tradition
Speaker 1: is ours. He passes it along to us, just as
Speaker 1: so many other great thinkers do. So there's of course
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the book that I refer to,
Speaker 1: but Aquinas is a great one to think about these days.
Speaker 2: Well said, Now, I know in college, I remember taking
Speaker 2: classes and philosophy, and we studied very briefly, albeit not
Speaker 2: like yourself as we described these ancient scholars, But I
Speaker 2: remember as an astronomer, we studied Ptolemy in the book
Speaker 2: called the Alma Jester the Alma Justine. But have many
Speaker 2: of these, maybe I'm a little off subject here, have
Speaker 2: many of these great works? I know there was a
Speaker 2: big fire in Alexandria a long time ago when we
Speaker 2: lost a lot of material. So are some of the
Speaker 2: things that you're talking about relevant to these particular scholars
Speaker 2: that we may have lost over time. And imagine if
Speaker 2: we did lose it, just how more impacting they would
Speaker 2: be from their already great treatises and books themselves. What
Speaker 2: say you on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite something to think about, isn't it. I
Speaker 1: mean the fire at Alexandria, the Library of Alexandria's most
Speaker 1: famous part of this. But there are all sorts of
Speaker 1: terrible losses in history, manuscripts that didn't get passed forward,
Speaker 1: works that were lost. I mean, you mentioned Polemy, and
Speaker 1: you know the kind of role that leads on to
Speaker 1: the kind of the role that some of the medieval
Speaker 1: Arabic scholars had in preserving some of these texts. You know,
Speaker 1: while the West was you know, struggling and suffering its
Speaker 1: own kind of difficulties and you know, there are so
Speaker 1: many things that look, at least from a specular perspective,
Speaker 1: like accidents of history, so many tragedies, for instance, that
Speaker 1: we'd love to have from ancient Greece, whereas we only
Speaker 1: have a small handful about thirty plays that come down
Speaker 1: from the classical period from three authors. And just think
Speaker 1: of the wealth of things that we could have, you know.
Speaker 1: But one thing that that tells me is kind of
Speaker 1: a weirdly comforting thought, is that this grand tradition, even
Speaker 1: as beautiful as it is, even as magnificent as these
Speaker 1: texts are, and you know, they have so much to
Speaker 1: guide us, they're always being rescued. We're always up against
Speaker 1: the world. The world is always falling apart, and many
Speaker 1: of these texts were rescued from the flames, you know,
Speaker 1: and by people who aren't even sure if they were
Speaker 1: going to live to see tomorrow.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: In the book, I talk about Saint Jerome, who both
Speaker 1: watches the fall of Rome but also translates the Bible
Speaker 1: into Latin, you know, carrying that language forward as kind
Speaker 1: of the cornerstone Christianity in the West. And it's very
Speaker 1: partning and encouraging to me to think you know, even
Speaker 1: though our problems may be very dire, we are part
Speaker 1: of a long tradition of carrying that flame through difficult
Speaker 1: and stormy circumstances. We're not alone in that either.
Speaker 2: Well, this is interesting. In the few more moments we
Speaker 2: have with you, we could go on for hours here
Speaker 2: a fascinating subject. Again, our very special guest on the
Speaker 2: Doctor Scry Experience today, Spencer Claven, a scholar, writer and podcaster.
Speaker 2: And as you've heard, and we'll repeat many times during
Speaker 2: the interview, a brand new regnary book entitled How to
Speaker 2: Save the West Ancient Wisdom were five modern crises, and
Speaker 2: let's get back to those crises. As you describe these crises.
Speaker 2: Many of the things that I'd like to know about
Speaker 2: in your opinion is why have we suddenly become so partisan?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a question that you know goes
Speaker 2: all across the board. I mean, it's so sad the
Speaker 2: way we see things today politically.
Speaker 1: Especially Yes, I think that's a good example. We have
Speaker 1: something we could talk about for a long time. There
Speaker 1: is you know, at least one thing that we can
Speaker 1: point to that leads to this in part, and that
Speaker 1: is the you know, Marxist turn the cultural Marxist turn
Speaker 1: of the New Left, and I talk about this in
Speaker 1: the Regime Crisis section of the book. You know, when
Speaker 1: the when Marxist scholars and thinkers in Europe realized that
Speaker 1: Americans will never be radicalized economically. We had this at
Speaker 1: the time, this strong middle class. We weren't going to
Speaker 1: be turned against another out of economic resentments. Instead, they
Speaker 1: turn to identifying social resentments, especially raised right. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is where you get these thinkers, are where you
Speaker 1: get terms like white privileged comes from a guy Noel
Speaker 1: Ignatiev as part of this whole coterie of Marxist thinkers,
Speaker 1: and the idea that we were going to be not
Speaker 1: fellow Americans, but members of tribes that were dead set
Speaker 1: against one another by class interest. That really gets entrenched
Speaker 1: during this time, and you can see it now. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is why I argue in the book that identity
Speaker 1: politics really is poisoned to our republic. It undermakes the
Speaker 1: bonds of affection that are supposed to bind us together,
Speaker 1: and that means that those bonds of affection are what
Speaker 1: we have to recover. I mean, when you talk about
Speaker 1: people as if they were a disease, you know, as
Speaker 1: Joe Biden said, we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
Speaker 1: Or when you say that, you know, races can never
Speaker 1: get along because there's inherent racism in our DNA, you're
Speaker 1: really pouring acid onto the pies that bind. What the
Speaker 1: antidote for this is what the Greeks called philia, friendship,
Speaker 1: civic love. It's an act of love to get up
Speaker 1: in the morning and work together with your neighbor to
Speaker 1: face the problems in front of you, face to face, action,
Speaker 1: person to person in neighbors. We're seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: it on these communities, and out here in Nashville, we're
Speaker 1: seeing it also in Florida. You know, that's really heartening,
Speaker 1: and it is the way forward if we're going to
Speaker 1: get over this poison.
Speaker 2: Well fascinating story here in these major crises that you
Speaker 2: provide solutions. So let's talk about the old adage if
Speaker 2: you fail to study history, you're doomed to repeat it.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's pretty much another current of what I'm
Speaker 2: hearing how you out this particular interview. But if you
Speaker 2: had to sum up your book to the listening audience
Speaker 2: out there, what would you say. I mean, you've done
Speaker 2: a beautiful job, in my opinion, of identifying the five
Speaker 2: main crises that you see, but give us more of
Speaker 2: the direct connection of how this book is useful for
Speaker 2: individuals out there so that they may transform their world
Speaker 2: or feel hope instead of despair. And as I like
Speaker 2: to say always on this particular podcast, the Doctor's Guy Experience,
Speaker 2: we want to come from the positivity and we wouldn't
Speaker 2: be able to do this if it wasn't for our producer,
Speaker 2: Richard Dugan, who we think in the background, but you
Speaker 2: have the floor service. We sadly have to include this
Speaker 2: in just a few more moments. But I'm always excited
Speaker 2: and I always ask this, but the guests that we
Speaker 2: really like, would you be willing to come back at
Speaker 2: a future time to explore this in a much bigger
Speaker 2: opportunity here and much deeper with the length of questions.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would be absolutely delighted. It's been such pleasure,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that you've brought us to this point
Speaker 1: to conclude, because this is one thing that's really close
Speaker 1: to my heart. You know, I'm not going to sit
Speaker 1: here and tell you what's going to happen tomorrow. I
Speaker 1: think there's enough of that out there already. And the
Speaker 1: truth is, we don't know the future, and so if
Speaker 1: our hope is based on a certainty that everything is
Speaker 1: going to go right, then it will be a fragile
Speaker 1: kind of hope. But there is a deeper form of hope.
Speaker 1: There's a form of hope that doesn't come out of
Speaker 1: telling the future or reading the tea leaves. That comes
Speaker 1: from studying history and understanding that we are inheritors of
Speaker 1: a long and resilient tradition. When Cicero, the Great Roman
Speaker 1: the statesman, had to excuse himself from public life in
Speaker 1: Rome because it was becoming too dangerous for him, he
Speaker 1: said he was going to write create a Republic in letters,
Speaker 1: that he was going to form this kind of theoretical
Speaker 1: basis for believing in republican government. Now, in the short term,
Speaker 1: Cicero may have failed, I mean, the republic did end,
Speaker 1: and he was one of the victims of the new regime.
Speaker 1: But we are living today in his legacy, at least
Speaker 1: in part of seeing John Adams, who poured over Cicero's
Speaker 1: speeches and gave his own speech in defense of our
Speaker 1: declaration of independence. It's not a matter of indifference. What
Speaker 1: happens tomorrow. We should invest ourselves deeply in the political
Speaker 1: fights of the day. There's no question, but we are
Speaker 1: carriers of a light that goes further and deeper than
Speaker 1: just what happens in politics today or tomorrow. We have
Speaker 1: no room for despair. What we have as a job
Speaker 1: to do, and that's to wake up and seek the true,
Speaker 1: the good, and the beautiful in the city where we
Speaker 1: find ourselves. That will be enough.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I got to ask this final question here. This
Speaker 2: one always has bothered me. From all the greats that
Speaker 2: you talk about, and all the great writings, and particularly
Speaker 2: the Roman Empire, with all the great wisdom that they had,
Speaker 2: what was, in your opinion, the fall of the Roman Empire?
Speaker 2: What was the causation? In your opinion, one whole study.
Speaker 2: This is probably much better than most people we would
Speaker 2: talk to.
Speaker 1: I believe the old story that it was over extension
Speaker 1: and hubris. I think those two things together brought the
Speaker 1: Roman Empire down. I think that you know the Republic,
Speaker 1: which was this perpetual motion machine that's carefully calibrated in
Speaker 1: designs that have institutions to keep the Romans together, to
Speaker 1: keep the different social classes and political classes working together.
Speaker 1: It was It was beautifully conceived and beautifully executed for
Speaker 1: a long time, but in some sense it became a
Speaker 1: victim of its own success as they began expanding and
Speaker 1: as they began to forget that the citizenship, the Roman
Speaker 1: citizenship wasn't just a benefits package. It wasn't just something
Speaker 1: that you know, you kind of got all these goodies
Speaker 1: from the state. It was actually a set of moral responsibility.
Speaker 1: And that's I think a lesson that we can take
Speaker 1: as well. American citizenship is a beautiful gift. It's winning
Speaker 1: the lottery in a lot of ways between born an
Speaker 1: American citizens, but that doesn't mean it comes without any
Speaker 1: sort of responsibilities. We do have a role play in
Speaker 1: this nation, and you know, we are handed not just
Speaker 1: the vote, but life within this civilization. You know, to
Speaker 1: get up every morning and go out into our neighbors
Speaker 1: and to our neighborhoods, and you know, to actually face
Speaker 1: the human sized problems that faced us together. That's not
Speaker 1: an option. That's our role, it's our calling. It's a gift,
Speaker 1: but it's also a responsibility. So I think remembering that
Speaker 1: would be something we could draw from the Fall of.
Speaker 2: Rome interesting and relating to the reality crisis. A great
Speaker 2: quote here, and if you don't mind me taking to
Speaker 2: liberty quote course in control matter, because we control the mind.
Speaker 2: Reality is inside the skull. You must get rid of
Speaker 2: those nineteenth century ideas about the laws of nature. We
Speaker 2: make the laws of nature. End. Quote from the great
Speaker 2: George or Well. I'm a prolific book that everybody has
Speaker 2: read in high school and hopefully they can remember it
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. Spencer. I want to thank you for
Speaker 2: your time today again. We appreciate your time here on
Speaker 2: the very interesting show that people tell us, and we're
Speaker 2: so proud to do it, the Doctor Sky Experience, proudly
Speaker 2: here on America's number one main radio station, Talk Radio
Speaker 2: seventy seven WABC, out of New York, around the nation,
Speaker 2: around the world, and probably even out of the universe,
Speaker 2: the crown jewel of radio Iconic off Radio seventy seventy WABC.
Speaker 2: And please stay on the line as we go to
Speaker 2: our hard break here. We'd love to have you back
Speaker 2: again again. The book, ladies and gentlemen, I must have
Speaker 2: in a must read book is in our opinion and
Speaker 2: many others great reviews. How to Save the West, Ancient
Speaker 2: Wisdom by modern pricing Dger Claveland. Thank you. You've been
Speaker 2: a great guest and we look forward to talking with
Speaker 2: you soon.
Speaker 1: It was a delight. Thanks so much for having me
Speaker 1: on