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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious Podcast,

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discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties

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and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James d

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Grades and Jason Collin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah all right, let's go throw ourselves into the marsh.

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Yeah yeah, even though we're in our forties, we can

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still marsh.

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Speaker 3: Sure it can, Sure it can. I'm gonna stage dive.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna punch you just for fun.

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Speaker 3: Did you were you ever? Did you ever experience a

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much bit? No? Oh yeah? Oh man, see this is again.

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You know we talked about in Raiders and Back to

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the Future, how the slight variation our age two and

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a half years older than I am, right, but that

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slight variation can play a huge factor in certain, you know,

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spots in your life. You got to see Raiders and

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you have full recollection of it. I don't remember the

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first time I saw it. I have multiple memories of

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being involved in a mosh pit because in nineteen ninety

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one I was sixteen and you had gone to college.

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Speaker 2: And so it was an entirely you know, and it

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was yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, somebody bumps into me

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I'm gonna have a problem. Yeah, hey man, what don't

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you to do it? What's your problem?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: No, I was.

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Speaker 3: I was involved in several moss pits in my high

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school days. That's fun. So do you Okay, we didn't

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talk about what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about this, okay, all right.

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Speaker 3: So today we are again approaching the subject of two

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bands that change the paradigm.

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Speaker 2: No doubt, there's absolutely no doubt.

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Speaker 3: As not one of the bands I like, no doubt

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a lot, but they're.

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Speaker 2: Not speak okay, No, not no doubt, Nirvanavana and Pearl Jam.

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Speaker 3: Yes, with there too what I would call debut albums.

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I mean, Nirvana had Bleached ten was definitely Pearl Jam's debut,

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but the albums that made them the household names.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and they came out basically at the.

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Speaker 3: Same time, Yeah, exact same time.

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Speaker 2: Pro Jam preceded Nirvana by just a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Pearl Jam came out in August of ninety one,

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and Nirvana's never Mind came out in September September nine,

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twenty fourth, Yes, ninety one, September twenty fourth. Now, the

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single Smells Like Teen Spirit was actually released a couple

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of weeks before that, so it is even closer than that, right, Yeah,

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the awareness of Nirvana probably occurred before the awareness of

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Pearl Jam, and so that's why we're tackling them first

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and then tackling Pearl Jam next week.

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Speaker 2: Right, So this week is Nirvana's never Mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's just talk personally. Do you remember what you

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were doing, what was going on when you when you

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heard something off of Nirvana's never Mind? Yeah, So you

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and I have.

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Speaker 2: Talked briefly about this. But in August of ninety one,

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I left for college. Right, I graduated from high school.

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I'm a freshman at the University of Oklahoma, and I'm

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in the dorms. I don't have MTV. I've got the

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radio stations or whatever. But so Nirvana was kind of

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a slow burn for me because I didn't have access

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to it like I did when I was at home with.

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Speaker 3: Gable for Nevermind, for smells like teen Spirit. I have

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a very specific memory. I don't remember what the field

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trip was that we were on, but we were coming home.

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I think it was like a three hour bus ride.

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Who were coming home and this girl who had been

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kind of looking at on the bus, so I didn't

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really know that well started talking to me and she's like, oh,

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have you heard this new song? And I was like,

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I think I've heard this before. Let me listen. So

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I'm listening to her headphones with her, and she's getting

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towards the end of the song and she's like, it

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sounds like he's saying bloody nail, bloody nail at the end,

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and that was you know, that's kind of Nirvana's thing

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that you don't understand what they're saying half the time.

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And so even when I hear it today, I still

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I still can sing bloody nail to the end of

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this song. That girl became a girlfriend for a while

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after that, so that was That's probably where that memory.

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Speaker 2: Step I give you that special feeling.

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Speaker 3: Well that it does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would argue that this album had more impact

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on pop culture than any other album since Thriller.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd say more so, I mean I would put

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it above Thriller. Wow. Yeah, I mean it was a

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it was a big, big change, a big big change.

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They're close, but yeah, I would definitely say it had

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a huge impact comparable at the very least. So that

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started off. The band started off back in eighty seven.

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Kurt Cobain had been grown up in a town called Aberdeen, Washington,

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which is near Seattle, like one hundred and so miles away,

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but couldn't really be further apart as far as psychology

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and the scene and all that. It was not a

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hip town, right, and he had what a lot of

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ds grew up with as a kind of rough life.

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His parents got divorced, he had some emotional issues that

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made it hard for him to stay at anybody's house.

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But as it turns out, those type of people connect,

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and he ended up finding a guy named Chris nova

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Selic who was also an Aberdeen guy. Actually got introduced

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to Chris through his brother Robert. Kurt had overheard Robert's

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band playing upstairs. They were really loud. Kurt asked Robert

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what was going on, and he says, Oh, that's my

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older brother, Chris. He's got a punk band. And so

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that piqued Kurt's interest because he had been playing music

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and it's you know, I listened to a thing whereas

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his guitar teacher is talking, and his guitar teacher just

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looks like, I mean, you're going to talk about Aberdeen

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being different. He looks like, you're you know, your dad's

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drinking buddy, but he's He told him, he's like, hey,

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if you want to you know, if you want to

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be big, if you want to be famous, you can't

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just do what other people are doing. You have to

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be unique and do something different. He's like, my gosh.

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He took that to heart because he came back with

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songs with chords that didn't be along together. But anyway,

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Kurt bothered Chris for a while to get him to

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join a band, gave him the a demo tape that

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he had made with a band that Kurt had started

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called Fecal Matter, and basically Chris just wasn't really interested

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and didn't listen for a few months, and then when

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he finally did listen, he's like, oh, okay, yeah we could,

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we could do a band. Yeah, this'd be all right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure Nirvana gets as far if they're called

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fecal Matter, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. And that's there are several

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interesting names that they tossed around. Fecal Matter was one

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of them, obviously, and they had started a group called

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the Sellouts, which was a credence Clearwater revival cover band.

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I just when I saw that the first time, I

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was like, Okay, that has to be a joke. There's

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no way.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: It turns out you can find recordings of covering Bad

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Moon righting. Wow yeah, wow. Yeah. But Kurt decided on

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the name Nirvana because he sounded beautiful. You know. They

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were they were pursuing punk music, and they thought, I

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want to have something that's in contrast to punk, you know.

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They didn't want to be another punk group, and so

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they picked a name that was more.

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Speaker 2: I think that was a huge factor in their success,

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absolutely truly. Though the name Nirvana is marketable, Yeah, much

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more marketable than figal Matter the sellouts.

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Speaker 3: Skid Row, though, was one of them that name could

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be successful.

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Speaker 2: Skid Row for a later podcast hopefully.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Vana is just a great name, it really is.

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It is a great name. But then they started doing

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their own material. Kurt has a girlfriend that works while

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he stays at home and does his art and his music,

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so he gets it's a big amount of time to

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kind of develop his style. They have a few drummers

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that they have play. They have guys who sub in

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and when they ultimately end up doing well enough that

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they've got their own material and decide to do an album.

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They signed with this kind of underground album label called Subpop.

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Subpop's got its own history, which I don't have time

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to completely go into, but it is an interesting history.

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But subpop was just a couple of guys who went

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to these concerts of these bands in Seattle, and Seattle

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was this kind of unique situation where other bands really

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didn't go there to tour and there wasn't really outside

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influences coming in, so they kind of developed their own sound.

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And so you get bands like Sound Garden and mud.

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Speaker 4: Honey and the Melvins, and they all knew each other,

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Like half of the crowd at any given concert was

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going to be other band members come to see other

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guys play, and they're very supportive and had developed their

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own sound.

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Speaker 3: So these guys from subpop here, they're like, well, let's

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just start our own record label and we'll do it.

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And it became kind of this cult ish Hey, we're

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a member of the special club. We got some subpop albums,

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and then, in a move of marketing brilliance, they call

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a guy who's a journalist for one of the major

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music magazines in Europe and they say, hey, if you

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want to hear the Seattle scene, come on over, and

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they get the money together to fly him out there,

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give him the tour of the shows of the bands

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that they've got signed. He goes back and writes an

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article in his magazine and suddenly sub pop is the

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new coolest thing and the Seattle music is super exciting.

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Yea with sub pop. Nirvana does their first album, which

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is called Bleach. On that album, they had a drummer

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named Chad Channing, and he's not a bad drummer. But

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as our friend Arlen Bullard put it to me, if

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it wasn't for Dave Grohl, Kirk Cobain would be a

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barista in Seattle somewhere. I don't know if I'd get

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that far. But Chad Channing was good. He didn't have it.

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He didn't have a bad technique at all. He was

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a solid drummer, but he it was. Adding Dave Girl

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to the band was a step of magic.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's huge. So does Chad Channing lead one of

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the biggest rock bands in the world right now?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, right, Dave Gold does, yes, okay.

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Speaker 3: And Dave Girl was this guy from Virginia who had

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he's quit high school to start playing in bands. He

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was drumming in bands and moved out to California to

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be more involved in the scene. And after Bleach and

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the tour with that album, they kind of said to Chad, hey,

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you know, you're not really meeting our standards, and so

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they had a few they went through a few other

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substitute drummers, and while they're going through that process, they're

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not really finding something that they super clicked with. But

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then they go to a concert with the lead singer

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Buzz Osborne of the Melvins. Go to a concert of

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this band called scream which is a hardcore punk band,

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and the drummer is a guy named Dave. Girl Wow

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and as it turns out, and they're like, oh, this

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guy's awesome. But then he's with another band. And then

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two weeks later, Screamed disbands and falls apart, and so

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the drummer for mud Honey he gets a call from

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Dave who's like, Hey, my band just disbanded. You have

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anybody that I can hook up with? And he says, ah,

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you know, the guys from Nirvana are looking for a drummer.

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Dave flies up, they get together, they play and it's

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magic instantly.

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Speaker 2: Whenever Kurt Cobain gets together with Butch Vig. Later he says,

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we've got the best drummer in the world.

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Speaker 3: YEP, and we're ready to go. Yeah. He says he

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has perfect metronome timing and he hits really hard. Okay.

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So Bleach had come out in nineteen eighty nine and

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they were touring still with Chad Channing at that time,

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but they decided they wanted to do another album. Subpop says, hey,

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you know, why don't we do an EP or something

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like that, and they're not really excited about that. But

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what ends up happening is they released this release a

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single called Slipper. Let's say he wanted to try to

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produce the most marketable candy. Basically lame as could be

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a song that he could, but that was the most

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had the most appeal to the public, and so that

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was that was what he did. They actually went to

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record that song during a recording session by a group

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called Tad, and Tad had a lunch break and the

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guys from Nirvana, including Chad Channing, come in and they

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use the equipment of the guys from Tad and John

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and Dino who's the guy who recorded Bleach for them,

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does this song. They do it over the lunch like

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Pad's sitting there eating their sandwiches, and they're in there

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for less than an hour recording the song as their singing.

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And so once that comes out, the sub Pop says, Okay, hey,

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we think you should for your next album. You should

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use Butch Vig, who's this guy out of Madison, Wisconsin,

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and he's got his own studio called Smarts Studios. The

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band's touring at that time, so they say, all right,

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well stop, we'll do an extended stay in Madison where

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we're going to have a show anyway, and we'll go

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in and we'll record our second album. And so they've

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got several songs on there that are similar to the

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songs that end up on Nevermind, and one of them, last,

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one of them makes it all the way through. But

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they had a week to record, and about five days in,

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Kurt Cobain totally kills his voice singing Lithium and said

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they can't really go on. Jonathan from Subpop flies out

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there and he's like, this sounds good. We'll come back

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in a few weeks. And re record, right, and then

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they leave on their tour and butch Vig doesn't hear

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anything for the time.

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Speaker 2: Butch Vig was like expecting them to come back, and

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all of a sudden, it's like, well, where are they?

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I don't know, I haven't heard from him. But I

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do want to say this is I think very fortuitous

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for the band, because this is still too early. I mean,

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nineteen eighty nine nine any hair bands are still ruling

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the day. Yeah, and the world has not really tired

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of that yet. So let's talk about that for a

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second off, because we're talking about a revolution.

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Speaker 3: Here, right, right. So what was going on at the

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time that these albums were released? Right?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So September of ninety one, you had the top charts,

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had albums like Color Me, Mad Marky, Mark Boys to Men,

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Mariah Carey, Michael Bolton, Yeah, and the heavy hitting Garth Brooks, Yeah,

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the heavy hitting songs like the metal songs that ever,

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I mean you had. It had completely changed the days.

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You know, we talked previously about Van Halen and def

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Leppard changing the way that music looked like. They made

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hard rock accessible to the general audience, right, and then

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it became what everybody wanted, and everybody was listening to

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hard rock, and the people who wanted more listening to

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heavy metal, and you had these bands like Motley Crue.

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Speaker 2: Flappern, bon Jovi Za, Cinderella, Poison, right, and so they aren't.

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Speaker 3: It becomes a bigger and bigger thing. People more and more,

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and so then what became at first a revolution becomes

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mainstream and you've got guys dressed in black leather, right,

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motorcycles around at strip clubs, and you're just like, this

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is this is where we are now, right well for sure,

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and so what we have with never Mind is a

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reaction to that. Now A whole lot of the guys

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who end up being huge players in the here it comes,

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here's the word and ready for it grunge grunge grunge

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scene are guys who started off as metal players. But

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of course they did because that was the most popular music.

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And if you're in a band, you're going to play

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music that styles that are popular. I mean, the idea

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is to do things that people want to listen to.

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Speaker 2: So Fall of ninety one, for me, this is just

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post doctor feel Good, which for me, I love the

301
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album Huge Fan, and this is in the gap between

302
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hysteria and adrenalized right, No Deaf Leppard, right, and we're

303
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still waiting for Guns and Roses fall record right, use

304
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your Illusion, which does come out I think in October

305
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of ninety one. So it yeah, just down the road

306
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a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's this.

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Speaker 2: Kind of gap and when those guys are gone and

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when they return, it's different.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it is a it is a I've said

311
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it before, I'll say it again. It's paradigm shift because

312
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you look at those guys in the leather outfits, with

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the big implanted girls and the big hair sprayed hair,

314
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and then all of a sudden, you got these guys

315
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with dirty, unwashed hair, dirty unwashed clothes, torn jeans, flannel shirts,

316
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and they are a completely different scene. And it's something

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that a whole generation of people were like, Yes, these

318
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are my people. So they recorded Bleach in thirty hours.

319
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It ends up being this kind of underground thing they've

320
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Grohl had heard and was excited when they finally called

321
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:04,680
him to be a member of the band, and they

322
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released Sliver, which is getting them more fame, and then

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they say, Okay, we want to do a full album,

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and so Subpop sends them out to Madison they're recording

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with Butch Vig. When they come back, Subpop is having trouble.

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And honestly, they're a new record label by two guys

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who've never made records before, so they didn't they just

328
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,799
didn't know what they were doing right. But they had

329
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been so good at recognizing talent that major record labels

330
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were starting to court them to go, hey, how would

331
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you like to become a subsidiary of us? And so

332
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what happens is the guys from Nirvana go, why would

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we want to be with a label that is a

334
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subsidiary of a major label instead of just going to

335
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the major label ourselves. So when they sign with the

336
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major record label, you know, they have their own producers

337
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they want to use. But the guys are uncomfortable with this,

338
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and they're like, you know, we're this is our first

339
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time doing a big one of these things, and we

340
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:03,200
really don't want to get pushed around. We'd really like

341
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you to call but you big back and have him

342
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record for us.

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Speaker 2: I heard Chris talk about this and he said that

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they were comfortable with Butch because he was patient.

345
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so the record labels can see they say, okay, yeah, well,

346
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we'll let Butch Big be the producer on this one.

347
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He's at least familiar with the music that's going to

348
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go on it. But we don't want it to be

349
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over there at Smart Studios want him to come out

350
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here to California, and so they end up going to

351
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this place called sound City. Sound City is a hole

352
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:38,839
in the wall in the industrial district of Van Nuys, California,

353
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where some of the greatest albums in history have been recorded.

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You've got Fleetwood Mac, You've got Tom Petty, You've got

355
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the young.

356
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Speaker 2: Fleetwood Max Rumors album record.

357
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the You know, you walk into this

358
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place that looks like someplace where you'd be buying spare parts,

359
00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:01,960
and there are gold albums on the wall as you

360
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,559
walk in, and there is a great by the way,

361
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:07,039
there's a great documentary on this one that was directed

362
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by our friend Dave Grohl, because when Sound City ultimately

363
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ended up up shutting down, Dave's like, I'm going to

364
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go buy that soundboard. It had what was called the

365
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Neve soundboard, which was the big reason that everybody thinks

366
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that these albums were so well received is how good

367
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it sounded. In the studio and from this soundboard that

368
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,480
they have the needs need soundboard. So when it closed down,

369
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:33,400
Dave girls like, I want that soundboard. I will buy it,

370
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And so he made a whole movie about sound City

371
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and then the process of getting the soundboard and moving

372
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it to his own personal studio. Cool. When they were

373
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going to end up recording in California for the major

374
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,680
record label, the date kept getting pushed back and kept

375
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,920
getting pushed back, and they were so excited to go.

376
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,720
I had been practicing hard, ended up having to do shows.

377
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,799
Just imagine this when you think about the sales of

378
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,319
the album they followed. They had to do extra shows

379
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just to get enough gas money to drive down to

380
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California and record it.

381
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Speaker 2: It's incredible. It's incredible. And once again, I think the

382
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,960
pushback of the date is very fortuitous for the band

383
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:24,000
because the world was not ready yet, not quite.

384
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 3: Yet, maybe not.

385
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,319
Speaker 2: This album costs about sixty five thousand dollars to make. Yeah,

386
00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:30,200
it sounds right, which is I mean you compare that

387
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,400
to what Hysteria cost. Yeah, Hysteria costs five million dollars

388
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,839
to make sixty five grand to make this album. Yeah,

389
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,839
and then you base that on what it sold. I

390
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:44,079
mean right, it's incredible. David Geffn Company only expected to

391
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,039
sell about two or fifty thousand copies of this album total.

392
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they only when they first produced albums, and this

393
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,880
was albums, tape CDs, everything, they only produced about fifty

394
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,720
thousand of them. Well, and you know, the first song

395
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was supposed to the first song the album was supposed

396
00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:04,400
to be teen Spirit, but was because they expected it

397
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,799
to be kind of laying a bass foundation and then

398
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,920
they're going to release the Come As You Are and

399
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,039
that was going to be the big one. They had

400
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,480
no idea what it smells like.

401
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:16,839
Speaker 2: Hey, this is us. Get ready because we've got this

402
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,400
other song called come as you Are.

403
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Speaker 3: It's gonna be great, right. But interestingly, when they first started,

404
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,359
the album wasn't going to be called never Mind.

405
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 2: This album was originally supposed to be called Sheep. Yes,

406
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:30,119
as in people who buy this are sheep.

407
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so they we're just going to say this. They

408
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:35,920
had a definite idea about how they wanted this album

409
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,279
to sound, and it wasn't like this album defines us

410
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,319
as a band. They understood they had to build the

411
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:49,000
following first, and so their objective was to make children's songs, right.

412
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,160
I mean, that's that is literally, Dave Grohl says, children's songs.

413
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They wanted to keep it as simple as possible, and

414
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they wanted to have a melody to it, and their

415
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:02,480
formula was perfect.

416
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Speaker 2: It was perfect. And I'll say this. You know, Kurt

417
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:07,640
Cobain talks about this, and we can get into this

418
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:11,599
later about his actual opinion of this album, but he

419
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:17,519
had an ability to write Beatle like hooks for this album.

420
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Even though he loved punk, his talent really lied in

421
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making pop.

422
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Speaker 3: Songs, right. He had grown up listening to the Beatles.

423
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He had musicians in his family who would give him

424
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:31,119
Beatles albums as presence, and so he loved the Beatles,

425
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specifically loved John Lennon. But what he does is he

426
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:41,200
takes this dissonant punk. He writes these very hooky melodies

427
00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:44,200
to make. I mean, his vision is to make this

428
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as palatable as possible to the masses. And so you

429
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:52,400
get these poppy melodies plus these heavy, roaring guitars and

430
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,759
these really hard drums, and you get the punk kind

431
00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:58,119
of dysfunctional, tormented lyrics.

432
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Speaker 2: It's a great, great mixture. Okay, before we go into

433
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,640
the songs. Do we want to talk about the album

434
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,319
cover real quick?

435
00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:13,039
Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah. It's kind of controversial, yeah, but it's also

436
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,440
one of the most recognizable album called it is in history,

437
00:23:16,599 --> 00:23:18,519
and that's I was thinking about that as I started

438
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:21,440
looking at that particular aspect. You don't get that anymore.

439
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:24,599
I mean now people don't go to the record store anymore,

440
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,000
you don't flip through albums, you don't have posters of

441
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:30,319
album covers on your wall anymore.

442
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Speaker 2: It is it's dead, all right, So let's talk about

443
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,599
the album cover. Okay, for those of you haven't seen

444
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,559
it recently, it's a baby, like a couple of months

445
00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:43,160
old baby who's actually swimming little boy. Yeah, you can

446
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,480
see his little beepe Yeah, and he's swimming after a

447
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:48,720
dollar bill that's on a hook.

448
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,839
Speaker 3: Right. The record label wanted to like do something to

449
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,880
cover up or remove the penis, yes, and Kurt Cobain

450
00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:01,319
was like, no, no, And if you decide to cover

451
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,119
it up, I want it to be with a sticker

452
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,200
that says, if you're offended by this, you're probably a

453
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,000
closet pedophilia.

454
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,319
Speaker 2: Listen. I know for sure. The Walmart in my hometown

455
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,759
put the price sticker on it. I am not kidding you.

456
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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, oh my word.

457
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,759
Speaker 2: So the Little Boys Beepee was covered up by thirteen

458
00:24:24,839 --> 00:24:27,000
ninety nine, walmart I was twenty eight years old.

459
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 5: Now it's crazy well by Zoomna the Zeza.

460
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, we're going to jump into the

461
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,680
album here and we'll talk about things as we go through.

462
00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:43,279
But tell me what happened when we decided to do

463
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,240
this episode and you started listening to Nevermind?

464
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So for me, before this episode started, I was

465
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,039
obviously super familiar with smells like teen Spirit.

466
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

467
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,079
Speaker 2: I knew Lithium, my New End Bloom, all the singles,

468
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,000
all the singles, right, I knew Come as You Are.

469
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,960
But I had not listened to the album. And part

470
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,079
of the joy of doing this podcast, we really do

471
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:04,759
do a deep dive and we do our research and

472
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,119
we get into it and I listened to it, and

473
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,200
this album is really, really good. I enjoyed it getting

474
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,839
to know it. It makes me so happy, you know,

475
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:17,000
It's it's one of the fun parts of the things.

476
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,279
Speaker 3: We do here. Yeah. Absolutely, As I had that experience

477
00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:22,119
with Pyromania, I did not expect to enjoy it at all,

478
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,880
and I ended up being surprisingly surprised and liked it

479
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,839
even better than Within Hysteria, which I had grown up with.

480
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,279
Speaker 2: That's incredible, and when we compare these two, it'll be

481
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:37,559
interesting to see where both of us lie. But I

482
00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:42,200
found most of this album very, very listenable, very I

483
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,599
mean it's hard, it's edgy, it's guitar raging guitar and

484
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:52,039
screaming lyrics yep, but not screaming. I mean he sings them.

485
00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:52,519
It's just.

486
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,839
Speaker 3: A lot of yeah. So the guy from one of

487
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,119
the guys from Sonic Youth described his voice as toxic glue,

488
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,039
which is really I mean, it's like his voice captures you,

489
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:09,880
but it's it's so gravelly and rough and then it's

490
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,200
sweet at times in the right moments. Dave Girl said,

491
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,599
it sounds like you're boiling nails.

492
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's so it's got so much emotion

493
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:19,160
into it. Huh that pulls me in.

494
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:19,599
Speaker 3: Yeah.

495
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,319
Speaker 2: Whenever I listen to like, people are like, I hate it.

496
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,559
I turned off, can't stand it. This is not that.

497
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: No, this is the melody You're the Sheep. It's hard

498
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,880
seeing I'm the sheep too, Totally the sheep on this one.

499
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:39,960
We are we are the sheep. Why I had never

500
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,839
listened to this album beginning to end. Okay, I owned ten.

501
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,559
Ten was something that was I mean, that's been a

502
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:49,000
part of my life for nearly thirty years now. But

503
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,000
never mind, I knew the singles, I had never listened

504
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,799
to the album. Had that same experience that you did,

505
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:57,079
where I'm like, Okay, let's put on the headphones and

506
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,319
see how this goes. And four measures into the song,

507
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,279
I'm like, holy crap, but didn realize how good this was.

508
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:07,920
And then five songs in, I'm like, holy crap, this

509
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:13,200
is unstoppable. This is amazing. It's it is truly an

510
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,759
amazing album. And for anybody who's listening who hasn't done that,

511
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,680
who hasn't said, Okay, I'm just gonna sit down and

512
00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:22,519
listen to this album from beginning to end. Do it now? Yeah,

513
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:25,440
well not now, wait till we're done, then go do it.

514
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: I would say that this is more of a shocker

515
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:31,079
with me knowing us, knowing you, and knowing me.

516
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was surprised.

517
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't expected to like it as much as I did.

518
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: Here we go, we're jumping in.

519
00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

520
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:38,559
Speaker 3: Let's jump in with both feet and of course save

521
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,079
the best for first. Smells Like Teen Spirit.

522
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:53,599
Speaker 2: All right, Smells Like Teen Spirit was released. It's the

523
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,240
first single off the album Yes. This single was released

524
00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,359
August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety one. And like we had

525
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,680
talked about earlier, this was an unexpected success, right right.

526
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,599
They really thought that Come As You Are was going

527
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,119
to be their big mainstream hit. This is often marked

528
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,160
as the spot that grunge went mainstream. So let's talk

529
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,240
about this song for a second.

530
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:12,559
Speaker 3: Okay.

531
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: When it starts, yes, I mean, just the great guitar

532
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:20,279
right there, and then lean guitar, the drums just blow up,

533
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:24,680
yes and yeah. And then as we're singing, he's talking

534
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,559
about stuff I don't really understand.

535
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,039
Speaker 3: Before you get even to the words, you have that boom,

536
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,400
the boom of the drums and then the boom of

537
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,480
the guitar that comes in, which you're just like, holy cow,

538
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:38,559
because you if you've listened to him from sub sub pop,

539
00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:40,599
if you've listened to him from Bleach, and you hear

540
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,680
this kind of raspy, change the chain kind of guitar,

541
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:50,160
you're like, okay, ready for another underground sound, and then boom, boom,

542
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,160
and you were like what am I? What am I

543
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,799
listening to? And so this this goes to the fourth

544
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,839
member of the band. But Vic absolutely this is absolutely

545
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,480
his baby and his kind of tribution. I mean, yes,

546
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:04,720
it's a great song. But they had this idea of

547
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,720
how they wanted it, and they wanted it bare bones,

548
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:10,200
and butch Big was like okay, and then commenced tricking

549
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:13,240
them into playing multiple tracks so that he could put

550
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:16,440
it all together into a sound like no one's heard before.

551
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:37,359
Speaker 2: You talk about double tracking, because before I study this,

552
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,599
I didn't really know what that was.

553
00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: So double tracking is basically with vocals, it's you sing,

554
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:46,440
You sing the vocals, and then you sing the vocals again,

555
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,960
and your voice because even though it you know, it's

556
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,759
still your voice, you're not ever singing it the same

557
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,720
way exactly twice. So it creates this chorus effect on

558
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:01,640
your voice. And so with that poticular aspect, butch Vig

559
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,799
would be like, Okay, Kurt, we're going to do a

560
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:06,079
double track. Listen. Kurs like, I don't really like it

561
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,559
just being one. He's like John Lennon did it, Okay,

562
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:12,039
I'll do it. And he appealed to this, I mean

563
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:15,000
because he's I mean, all of these songs I can

564
00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:17,839
hear now, knowing his love for the Beatles, I can

565
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,359
listen and go, okay, yeah, I can actually hear some

566
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,599
of those melodies that a lot of style of the

567
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,200
Beatles finds its way in. And the bands that you're

568
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:29,400
yelling you're talking about yell into the microphone, and those

569
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,720
guys were reacting to the Beatles. I mean, they're they're still

570
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:34,559
like trying to get away from that. But Kurt embraced it.

571
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000
And Butch, who is a pop guy anyway. By the way,

572
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,440
Butch Vig is also a member of the band Garbage,

573
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,279
which as a song figures heavily in Captain Marvel as

574
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:49,319
does the Nirvana song as You Are Yeah Yeah. Before

575
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:53,000
he does that, he's recording nevermind, convinces Kurt to double

576
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:59,200
his voice too bad Acotagers, and he was great a

577
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,880
double tracking. He would just run down a take and

578
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,079
do another take and they always locked up really really well.

579
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,720
And then figures out, hey, Dave can actually sing some

580
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:15,200
harmonies here, and he can, he can do it, and

581
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:18,200
their voices sound really good together, right right, And so

582
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:21,519
he's like, Okay, this sounds good, but hey, if doubled

583
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:25,920
Kurt's voice right as well, double voice right. And so

584
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,519
that's how you get this really around. You know, you

585
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:31,240
you're hearing it and you just think this is a

586
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:33,680
raw but as it turns out, a little bit of

587
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,119
production is not a bad thing. Then what happens with

588
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,759
the guitars is he he records Kurt and he just

589
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:43,519
lies to him. He's like, yeah, that that didn't come through, right,

590
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,680
There's something wrong with the soundboard something, And so Kurt

591
00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:49,920
plays it on not only multiple times, but on multiple

592
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,559
different guitars with different effects pedals, and Butch weaves all

593
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:59,799
of those things together so beautifully. It's just it's amazing.

594
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: Let me just say this. I'm not a producer, okay,

595
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:05,359
and really I'm not even a musician. But I listened

596
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,880
to Bleach, Yes, I listened to Nevermind, Yes. Butch Vig

597
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:12,200
is hugely impactful.

598
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: On this album, no question about it.

599
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Muttling effect is like the

600
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:18,720
fourth member of the band.

601
00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: He really is.

602
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Okay, I got something for you. I think this is

603
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,279
gold nugget.

604
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:34,039
Speaker 3: You're ready, yeah?

605
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: All right. So the song title is smells like teen Spirit,

606
00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:40,400
which is never said anywhere in the lyrics in the

607
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,279
entire song, No, just the title teen Spirit smells none

608
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:46,720
of it in there, Okay, so where does it come from?

609
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:49,240
This is a great story. Kurt came up with the

610
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:51,720
title when a friend of his name, Kathleen Hannah, who

611
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,319
actually was the lead singer for the band Bikini Kill,

612
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,880
wrote on his wall like graffitied his wall, Kurt smells

613
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,599
like teen Spirit. What she was referring to was the

614
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,960
fact that Kurt Cobain smelt like the deodorant teen Spirit, Yes,

615
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,680
which his girlfriend Toby Vale at the time.

616
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: Who was also in Bikini Kill. Yes, she's a guitarist drummer.

617
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:16,799
Speaker 2: So this is a reference to the fact that he

618
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,920
was rolling around with his girlfriend came off smelling like

619
00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:24,519
a deodorance dick, this teen Spirit deodorant. Yeah, and Kurt

620
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:28,079
was completely unaware of this until after the single was released.

621
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And that incredible story it is. It's fantastic.

622
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: So you and I talked off air. This song is

623
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,559
the coming together of three perfect things. And we use

624
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:45,240
the word perfect a lot. But it had excellent production. Yes,

625
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:49,240
it was a great song. Killer vocalization on this song, yes,

626
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,680
and then the video is off the charts. Good.

627
00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:57,839
Speaker 3: It is fantastic and the video was directed by a

628
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,680
guy named Sam Bayer, and he literally was at the

629
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,079
bottom of the list of guys at the record label

630
00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:08,719
was suggesting to direct the video. The way he puts

631
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,840
it is my demo reel was really bad, and that's

632
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,519
probably why I got the job, because they wanted somebody

633
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:18,239
who didn't make it look like a corporate video, and

634
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,199
that's what they got.

635
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: So here's the story behind that. They shot this video

636
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,000
on August seventeenth, nineteen ninety one. Two days before that,

637
00:34:26,039 --> 00:34:29,280
they had played at a club called the Roxy in Hollywood, right,

638
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,719
and they passed out flyers and said, Hey, two days

639
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,440
from now, we're going to be shooting a video. We

640
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,519
want all of you guys to come. So these are

641
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,239
all the people that were at that concert showed up

642
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,480
and proceeded to trash the place.

643
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 3: Well what happened was Sam Bayer is yelling at everybody

644
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,920
with this megaphone, trying to get a good production on.

645
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:52,880
He makes them sit still for hours, like I had

646
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,199
the I get to be an extra part in a

647
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,480
movie and we had to sit there while he did

648
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:01,000
take after take everything. See how that could get a

649
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:04,960
little boring, right, And so add on to that that

650
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:09,519
I wasn't nineteen years old, and it wasn't in August

651
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,360
at the you know, peak heat season. So they're frustrated there,

652
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:15,679
and they're punk rock fans, right right.

653
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,119
Speaker 2: These are not sit down, be straight, no Chris.

654
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,559
Speaker 3: So at some point, at some point, Kurt says, why

655
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:26,679
don't you just let them go wild? And that is

656
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,320
exactly what it is. So the girls in the anarchy

657
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:35,519
cheerleader suits with the tattoos, Kurt's idea, the goofy janitor

658
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,480
dancing along with Kurt's idea, and then when he says

659
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,920
let's just let them, you guys want to mash, let's

660
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,400
mosh and they start playing and those kids go crazy.

661
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,400
They literally started tearing up the set. They destroyed it.

662
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,039
Speaker 2: In the video, you can see Kurt gets like involved

663
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:56,199
in and he pushed and oh yeah.

664
00:35:56,599 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of live videos out there that

665
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:02,000
you can see. One is of the first time that

666
00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:06,400
they played Smells Like Teen Spirit in public, and it's

667
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,039
my favorite part. The lyrics aren't exactly the same, it's

668
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:12,559
definitely not that full sound that you get from the recording,

669
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,800
but my favorite part is Kurt Cobain is saying Okay,

670
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,360
this is a this is a song called smells like

671
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:26,039
teen Spirit, and somebody in their crowd goes free. Yes,

672
00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:27,320
oh my god.

673
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: That guy goes to every single concert.

674
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:33,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. And so before another video, before they had become

675
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,880
the big things that they were, they're still you know,

676
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,320
still playing for decent sized groups of people, but it

677
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,199
wasn't stadium size. Is it a video where they're playing

678
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:45,519
on in this bar, there's this bouncer you know that's

679
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:47,760
in charge of crowd control, that is literally on the

680
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,320
stage with them, like kneeling down on one knee, just

681
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,280
glaring at all of these kids moshing, just ready to

682
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,280
punch out whoever tries to come on stage. And if

683
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,199
you watch their videos, they didn't give a crap if

684
00:36:57,199 --> 00:36:59,840
people came on this stage. He was expected. Yeah, I

685
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,519
mean guys would get up there, dance around, jumping the crowd. Yeah,

686
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:08,159
I just playing, but they would get involved too, and Kurt,

687
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,639
like many musicians, would stage dive. And so in this

688
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,639
video there's this heavy metal looking security guard guy glaring

689
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,480
at the crowd. Kurt body dives with his guitar into

690
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,760
the crowd. He's playing a little bit. But anyway, as

691
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,199
they start to push Kurt back up onto the stage.

692
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,159
He starts to palm his face, trying to push him away,

693
00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,920
which makes Kurt matt who then hits this guy in

694
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,000
the head with the butt of his guitar. So, of course,

695
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:38,039
as soon as he's back on stage, this guy is

696
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,039
popping him in the face and he's going down, and

697
00:37:41,079 --> 00:37:43,719
you see Dave Grohl jump out from behind the drums

698
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,280
to break up the fight. But it is to me

699
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,760
it was the defining video of Hey, Heavy Metal, Screw

700
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,079
You Yeah.

701
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 2: In two thousand and four, Rolling Stone named it the

702
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,599
ninth greatest five hundred Songs of all time. It reached

703
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,400
number six on the US Hot one hundred and still

704
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,440
today they're only top.

705
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: Ten hit, and they thought it might sell fifty thousand.

706
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:09,639
This album came out in September. By January of ninety two,

707
00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:13,559
it knocked Michael Jackson out of the top spot.

708
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,199
Speaker 2: I know that that was insane for an album that

709
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,920
costs sixty five grand I don't know what dangerous cost

710
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:24,920
to make, but to knock the king of pop, the

711
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:29,400
iconic artist of that generation, out of the top spot. Yeah,

712
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:36,320
three guys from nowhere Washington, right, It's incredible. I did

713
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,760
want to mention this when he presented this song to

714
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,159
his bandmates. Yeah, Chris called it ridiculous.

715
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,559
Speaker 3: Yes, they hated it, and he said, okay, let's do it,

716
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:45,679
and they stood and they.

717
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,199
Speaker 2: He made him play for like an hour and a half,

718
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,440
same song, again and again and again, but slowly. Chris

719
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,559
played the riff slower and kind of molded that a

720
00:38:54,559 --> 00:38:54,960
little bit.

721
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 3: Yep.

722
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: They've changed the drums just to touch yep. And so

723
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,760
this is the only song I never mind to credit

724
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,960
all three band members as the writers.

725
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: Right, well, that one in the hidden track.

726
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to talk about that one.

727
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:19,519
Speaker 3: Okay, what is this song? So at this point I

728
00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:22,440
think that we have to talk about Weird Al Yankovic. Yes,

729
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,880
So the guys played for Saturday Night Live nineties, early nineties.

730
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,079
So Victoria Jackson is still on Saturday Night Live and

731
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,000
she comes into their dressing room and she's like, Okay,

732
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,199
my friend Weird Al Yankovic wants to do a parody

733
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,000
of your song. Is that okay? And they're like, yeah,

734
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,559
you know the Chris Novaceelic also plays the accordion, and

735
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:50,400
so he was like, oh, I love I love Weird Yankovic.

736
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,280
Of course we could do.

737
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,199
Speaker 2: That's how you know you've hit it big. Yes, okay, okay,

738
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,840
so next are we done? I don't know if we

739
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,639
can never fully be done with smells like teen.

740
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: I'm starting to smell a little bit like teen spirit myself.

741
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,760
All right. So here we get to song number two,

742
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,519
which is about us. Okay, yeah, so in Bloom In

743
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:21,960
Bloom is song number two, and he wrote the song

744
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:28,320
about people who don't understand the underground music scene, and which,

745
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:31,079
you know, you got to think, how did he know

746
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,719
what was going to happen before the album was released? Well,

747
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,920
he wrote this after Bleach came out. They started seeing

748
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,719
a little bit of success with Bleach, and suddenly they're

749
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:49,159
going to their concerts and there's all these extra people,

750
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,679
like they've oversold whatever small venue. You know, they were

751
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:55,239
playing to three hundred people rooms at the time, and

752
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,360
then all of a sudden there's people standing in lines.

753
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400
And so this song is about all of those guys,

754
00:41:00,519 --> 00:41:03,639
those posers, if you will, who like their pretty songs. Yeah,

755
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:05,400
who like their pretty songs and like to sing it

756
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,000
along but don't know what it means. Don't know what

757
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:21,079
it means?

758
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,519
Speaker 2: Okay, This song is awesome. If it's not Fortine Spirit,

759
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:29,039
this is the best song now, I love it.

760
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,599
Speaker 3: This is a fantastic song and the video is hilarious.

761
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,559
Yeah it is.

762
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: Kurt mentioned that everybody was taking them to dagam seriously.

763
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,679
They wanted to show their sense of humor. Yep, and

764
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,400
so they have this sort of Ed Sullivan like, right.

765
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,159
Speaker 3: And do you know who the guy who Nirvana? Do

766
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:49,920
you know that guy.

767
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Doug Llewellen from People's Court.

768
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: Nice, Hello, I'm Doug Llewellen, and welcome to the People's Core.

769
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: He's the guy who bugs everybody when they come out. Hey,

770
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,079
what do you think the judge thought? I thought he

771
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:01,599
was terrible.

772
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. They wanted to show everybody they had a sense

773
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:06,320
of humor, so they dressed up like the Beach Boys

774
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:18,599
and some Ed Sullivan show cute food. Well, this was

775
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:21,039
actually the second video for this song. I don't know

776
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:23,679
if you knew this. They had a different video because

777
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,800
this was one of the ones that came from the

778
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:31,440
sub pop days and it was them like walking around

779
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,800
in the city and Chris Novacelic had like I don't

780
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,800
know whether he had a bet with himself or somebody else,

781
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,840
but Basically it was like punishment to himself. He had

782
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,400
played so poorly at one of their shows that he

783
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,239
shaved his head, and so he's walking around in this

784
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,679
video with no hair and they're trying to intercut it

785
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,559
with concert footage where he has here. It made any sense.

786
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:55,639
So I'm really glad that they did this crazy video,

787
00:42:55,639 --> 00:42:57,639
and they had shot they shot three different versions of

788
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:01,119
the video, some with them and dresses, and they had

789
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:03,079
planned to do like this kind of sneak one out

790
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:05,360
and put another video in just to throw people off.

791
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,000
But what they ended up doing was just splicing all

792
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:09,199
of those videos together.

793
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 2: Videos great, it's funny, but it's it's spout and the

794
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,519
song is awesome.

795
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:15,119
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, awesome song.

796
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 2: This song was their fourth single, released November thirtieth, nineteen

797
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,920
ninety two. Second track fourth single, Okay.

798
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 3: So I hesitate to do this. I hesitate to look

799
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:27,280
at the lyrics and try to offer some sort of

800
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,400
interpretation because Kurt Cobain said, you know, he's talking about

801
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:35,719
all of the ideas about the lyrics, And they hated

802
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,400
doing interviews right and didn't want to talk about the

803
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,880
meaning of their songs. They just wanted the songs speak

804
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,159
for themselves. He finally gets fed up and he's like,

805
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:46,800
why in the heck do journalists insist on coming up

806
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,639
with a second rate Freudian evaluation of my lyrics when

807
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:56,880
ninety percent of the time they've transcribed them incorrectly. So

808
00:43:57,199 --> 00:43:59,360
I hesitate to do what I'm about to do. But

809
00:43:59,519 --> 00:44:02,199
just in my opinion, in addition to being about obviously

810
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,519
about the guys who didn't understand their music who were

811
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:07,800
the adopters. But you know that I know is frustrating

812
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,320
for him. The song starts off with sell the kids

813
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,360
for food. Whether it changes moods, Spring is here again,

814
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,239
reproductive glands. I think it's just kind of again. You

815
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,440
can put whatever spin on you want to, but to me,

816
00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:24,960
it sounds like, hey, let's have another kid. We won't

817
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,360
really care as parents. We're just gonna, you know, have

818
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,840
another kid because our you know, the Spring's here and

819
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,000
we're gonna have some kids and they end up being

820
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:35,039
these jack offs that come to the concert.

821
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: Dave Grohl actually mentioned this too. I was gonna tell

822
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:41,920
you this quote, he said, just seeing Kurt write the

823
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,079
lyrics to a song five minutes before he first sings them, Yeah,

824
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,199
you just kind of find a little bit hard to

825
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,039
believe that the song has a lot to say about something.

826
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:53,360
You need syllables to fill the space, or you need

827
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:54,400
the rhymes. That's it.

828
00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: The way that Kurt wrote music was melody comes first,

829
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,840
music first, then lyrics after, and not only in chronological order,

830
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,920
but in order of importance. The melody was the most

831
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,280
important thing to him, and then he would, yeah, he'd

832
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,199
sit down and write the lyrics five minutes before. But

833
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,760
we're talking about an affected guy, a guy with some demons,

834
00:45:17,079 --> 00:45:20,639
for sure, and I think this was his very simple

835
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:23,000
way to exercise those demons, to put pen to paper

836
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:24,480
for these songs in Bloom.

837
00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, great five star, great songs. All right, all right.

838
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,119
The next track, third track on the album, is called

839
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:36,639
Come as You Are. So their second single Come As

840
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:38,880
You Are, released March second, nineteen ninety two.

841
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 3: So this song comes in with this watery sound and guitar,

842
00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:45,760
very fluid sound.

843
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,599
Speaker 2: That's that's.

844
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,599
Speaker 3: Not the heavy hitting I mean, we've had s Mills

845
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:59,880
eighteen Spirit and in Bloom just blowing up in your face.

846
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,360
And then this one is a much softer, smoother, different sound.

847
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:09,079
It starts off slow and then it's a slow burn build.

848
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:12,440
The heavy comes in, but it takes much longer than

849
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,280
the first two songs.

850
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,119
Speaker 2: You know, we talked about this off the air, but

851
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:18,239
this song is featured in the movie Captain Marvel, and

852
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,519
I've told you that sometimes when you listen to it

853
00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:25,239
in your car or through the television or something, you

854
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,280
don't really feel the power of the song. Yeah, when

855
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,559
I was sitting in the movie theater, I felt the

856
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:30,360
power of this song.

857
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 3: There's an idea, maybe we should start something where we

858
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,199
just play music videos at the movie theater for two

859
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,920
hours and let the sound system like be like a

860
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,519
rock concert.

861
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:53,119
Speaker 2: How awesome it was great, man, I blew my head up.

862
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 3: So this song. They were hesitant to release this song,

863
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,280
and it was this was the one that they were

864
00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:02,719
counting on to bring them to fame. It just turned

865
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,079
out that smells like teen Spirit actually brought them to fame. Well,

866
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:07,280
I was going to mention this to you.

867
00:47:07,559 --> 00:47:10,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, this song, the beginning of this song is very

868
00:47:10,199 --> 00:47:13,719
similar to a song called Eighties by the Killing Joke.

869
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's listen to that real quick.

870
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 6: Okay, it's pretty okay, really close to that one.

871
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: That's close.

872
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:33,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so the band Killing Joke was pretty upset

873
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:33,599
about this.

874
00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: They were clearly they thought Nirvana handled it poorly and

875
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:40,280
they were mad. And when you listen to it, it's

876
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,239
pretty undeniable.

877
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: So they probably were hesitant to finally copyright infringement because

878
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,840
they also stole the intro music. There's a band called

879
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,760
The Damned who had a song called Life Goes On

880
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,480
And here's what that song sounds like.

881
00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: Wow, man, that is incredibly close.

882
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,559
Speaker 3: Yeah wow.

883
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: Okay, Kurt Kobain could have got this motto from the

884
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,320
More Hotel in Aberdeen, Washington. So the motto for this

885
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,400
hotel that he stayed at sometimes when he got kicked

886
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,239
out of his house was right, come as you are.

887
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, there's a couple of stories that go

888
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:28,280
along with this album that I want to tell. The

889
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,000
first one is his mom's story. So before this album

890
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:35,000
is released, he comes back to that and we you know,

891
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:36,960
if you want to look at his history, he was

892
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:40,000
in and out of his mom's house, his dad's house,

893
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:44,599
his grandparents house, friend's houses. But you know that he's

894
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:48,239
gone on, he's become a man now, he's in his twenties.

895
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,559
But he comes back and stays with mom for a

896
00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:54,119
while before this album is released, and she says. So

897
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,440
he comes down that morning in his tidy whities and

898
00:48:57,679 --> 00:49:00,719
he says, hey, I got the tape of our new album.

899
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,519
You want to hear it? And she says, yeah, turn

900
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:07,800
it up because she likes her music loud, and so

901
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,000
he starts playing it for her and she starts crying,

902
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,320
not out of proudness but out of fear, and she says,

903
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,119
you better hold on because this is going to change everything.

904
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: Wow, that's an incredible story.

905
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:32,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. Butcher Vig, Now, so before before he recorded Nevermind,

906
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:35,280
he had done gish with the Smashing Pumpkins, which is

907
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,599
not a small a small thing. I mean, he'd done

908
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:40,360
hundreds of things, but I mean he's he's friends with

909
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,280
Billy Corgan, And so after they finally mix and master

910
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,719
the album, he's got a tape of it too, and

911
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,079
he's having a barbecue right at his house, right Billy

912
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:54,559
Corgan's in the backyard eat a hotdog or whatever those

913
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:56,920
guys eat. So anyway, he takes the tape and he

914
00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:59,920
puts it in this crappy little boombox and sends it

915
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:02,280
on the table and hit play and goes over and

916
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,159
starts cooking again. And he says, all of a sudden

917
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:07,159
he realizes that nobody's talking, and he looks around and

918
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,880
everybody has migrated over to the table and are just

919
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,000
sitting around this crappy little boombox entranced, and they listen

920
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:20,559
to the whole album. It ends, tape clicks, a few

921
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:24,719
seconds pass and someone says, can you play it again? Wow?

922
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,639
Speaker 2: That's incredible, man. Yeah. This reached number thirty two on

923
00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:29,920
the Hot one hundred, stayed on the chart for eight weeks.

924
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,679
In twenty eleven, Rolling Stone named it the four hundred

925
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:35,119
and eighteenth Greatest song.

926
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,159
Speaker 3: Of all time. So the video for Come As You

927
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,079
Are is much more surreal, different than their other videos,

928
00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:45,079
same director as several of them, but it along with

929
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,599
that kind of watery guitar, they have this effect where

930
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:49,559
there's water coming down in front of it, and then

931
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:53,760
Kurt is like swinging from a chandeliers. Water's falling on him.

932
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,400
The watery effect is kind of clear to everybody, but

933
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:01,280
it's It was another great video. And then Aberdeen, the

934
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,960
guy's hometown. Now the introduction sign where it says welcome

935
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,760
to Aberdeen. Underneath that announced as come as you Are.

936
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 2: That is cool. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, all right,

937
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,559
moving on to the next song.

938
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 3: This song is called Breed. That gom the song bly crap.

939
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,519
Speaker 2: This song is good and it rips off with a bang,

940
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:37,840
isn't it?

941
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's a good song.

942
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:48,199
Speaker 2: This song was actually written in nineteen eighty nine and

943
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,559
recorded in April of nineteen ninety with Subbump.

944
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 3: But that's the subpop version is not what made it.

945
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 2: Onto No, no, they updated it for this one.

946
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 3: So this song was originally called Emotive after the anti

947
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:03,800
diarrheal medicine.

948
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: They were touring with our Buddi's Tad.

949
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tad, that's right, and the lead singer Tad a

950
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,519
little dummy issue, so they decided to write a song

951
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:17,679
called the Modium. But I'm glad they changed it. Breed

952
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,320
is a much better title to this song. This one.

953
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,840
You know, we talk about the anthem for the apathetic.

954
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,679
This is apathy at it's clearest, right. I don't care,

955
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,639
I don't care, I don't care, I don't care, I

956
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:32,440
don't care if it's cold.

957
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,599
Speaker 2: Good song, not great, but very enjoyable and solid, solid,

958
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:41,440
solid track.

959
00:52:41,679 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, this is one of those ones that

960
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:46,519
was a good new discovery for me because I hadn't

961
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:49,039
had the album before. This is one that I was like,

962
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:52,119
Holy crap, this is really good. I was surprised they

963
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:54,559
didn't have this as a as a single. Honestly, I

964
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:57,119
thought this was amazing, deserving of a single.

965
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: But it was really good, really solid.

966
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,039
Speaker 3: Yeah all right.

967
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: Next song, very popular song released July thirteenth, nineteen ninety two. Lithium.

968
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 3: I'm So happy got to today fum my friends in

969
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:20,440
mine head. So, lithium was this drug that they used

970
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,800
to treat manic depression before, like Prozac and stuff, and

971
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,000
so I think this kind of went along with some

972
00:53:29,199 --> 00:53:33,480
experiences that Kurt had had in his past. Obviously, mental

973
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:38,840
illness is certainly a big factor there. The fun guy.

974
00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: Good song, very very popular song. This was the tenth

975
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,199
most played song in the decade according to mainstream rock

976
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,480
radio one hundred and twenty three thousand times during the nineties.

977
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:52,519
Really really good song though.

978
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So this song is about a guy who

979
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,679
is dealing with suicidal thoughts finds religated and that saves

980
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,960
him from the suicidal thoughts, which goes along with that

981
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,880
whole mental health thing. What plays a part in the

982
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,360
song is some of Kurt's own experiences. This one was

983
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,920
one that he actually wrote the song from beginning to end.

984
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,679
It wasn't pieces of poetry or written five minutes before.

985
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,280
He had this song when they were doing their sessions

986
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,639
with which vig over at Smart Studios before they ended

987
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:27,920
up in California, and this was the one that tore

988
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,039
up his voice. This is also the one that caused

989
00:54:31,039 --> 00:54:34,599
the rift between him and Chad Channing, which led to

990
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:38,079
them getting rid of him because he couldn't get Chad

991
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:39,880
to get the drum right.

992
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: This sounds awesome, man. He makes that. He takes the

993
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,119
word yeah and turns it into a fist pumping scream

994
00:54:48,159 --> 00:54:52,800
your head off, but yet perfectly great chorus, great melody.

995
00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:54,079
It just sounds really good.

996
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,519
Speaker 3: It's one of those hooky melodies for sure. Yeah. Absolutely,

997
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,920
And I found God that concept. He actually had stayed

998
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,519
with a friend who was a Christian. Kurt Cobain accepted

999
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,199
christ at that time and was a Christian for a time,

1000
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,159
but you know, later on was he Christianity was not

1001
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:16,079
for him. He renounced it. But he said, you know,

1002
00:55:16,159 --> 00:55:20,119
if other people need God to be saved, then didn't

1003
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:20,559
they need it?

1004
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:23,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's his quote on that. I thought that was

1005
00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:25,599
interesting too. Lithium is a song about a guy who

1006
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:29,320
turns to religion after his girlfriend dies. It soothes him

1007
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,360
much like a dose of actual lithium. I've always felt

1008
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,039
that some people should have religion in their lives. That's fine.

1009
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:37,360
If it's going to save them, it's okay. And the

1010
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:47,199
person in Lithium needed So after Lithium we have Holly.

1011
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:54,679
Speaker 3: Holly wants a cracker, he goes sue it all. Holly

1012
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,920
was another one of those songs that I had heard before,

1013
00:55:58,039 --> 00:55:59,639
but when I listened to it again, I was like,

1014
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,920
this dark, Yeah, this is creepy, and I'm listening to

1015
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,199
it and I'm like, this is an interesting perspective, and

1016
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,639
I'm kind of thinking of this as an imaginary story.

1017
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,960
And then I was Todays years old when I learned

1018
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,440
this is based on a real event. Yeah, the guy

1019
00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:18,800
kidnapped a girl after a punk rock concert whose name

1020
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:24,079
was Polly. She's fourteen, Yeah, fourteen years old, and he

1021
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,119
kept her captive. All things that come up in the song.

1022
00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:31,440
But the thing that really spoke to Kurt about the

1023
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:36,400
song was that she decided to come on to him

1024
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,000
and to you know, identify with him as a person

1025
00:56:40,679 --> 00:56:43,400
in order to set herself up for escape, and that

1026
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:45,159
was how she got away from him and how he

1027
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,320
ultimately got caught. Chris said that Kurt really that really

1028
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,320
stuck out to him, which I may be over analyzing

1029
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,599
a bit here, but isn't that kind of what they

1030
00:56:54,639 --> 00:56:58,519
did with this album? Like they had their punk grunge

1031
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:02,559
sound that was underground sound, but they made an album

1032
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,159
that the masses could identify with so that they would

1033
00:57:06,159 --> 00:57:09,960
be adopted and be able to do what they want.

1034
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: Nice. Nice, I see what you're doing there.

1035
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:14,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, interesting, it seems to be.

1036
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: This song dates all the way back to nineteen eighty eight.

1037
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's a mistake in this song that they

1038
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:25,039
left in Paul's Kirk comes into early. When they listen

1039
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:26,719
to it again, they're like, I don't know, I kind

1040
00:57:26,719 --> 00:57:30,920
of like that. You've heard Jason talk about accidental drip.

1041
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,280
An accidental drip is something that I've talked to him about,

1042
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,519
but I don't know that we've ever talked about it

1043
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:38,360
in an episode. But the accidental drip is when you

1044
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,960
are painting a picture and the picture isn't quite right,

1045
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:45,199
and then a piece of paint or a drop of

1046
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:49,400
paint falls off the brush. And hits the canvas and

1047
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:53,800
suddenly the picture comes to life just from that accidental drip.

1048
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:58,480
And so that this is one of those accidental drip moments.

1049
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So that wraps up Side one of never Mind,

1050
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:08,039
and we've talked. I mean, I mentioned a couple of

1051
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:10,320
weeks ago in our episode on Hysteria that I thought

1052
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,320
the Side one of Hysteria was the best side of

1053
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,239
any album that we had covered up to that point. This,

1054
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:20,599
this competes with that. I mean, you've got teen Spirit,

1055
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:23,800
You've got in Bloom, you've got Come as you Are,

1056
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,519
breed Lithium and PAULI. So hit stop on your tape player,

1057
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:31,280
kick it out, flip it over. Now we're going to

1058
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:36,079
decide to Okay, this song, the first song on side

1059
00:58:36,119 --> 00:58:38,480
two is a song called Territorial Pissing.

1060
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 3: Yes. And here's the point in the podcast where Jason

1061
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:48,920
and I take different positions.

1062
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: This song is garbage, so good is crap.

1063
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,119
Speaker 3: A wag? If you've got, If you've got a song

1064
00:59:02,239 --> 00:59:07,480
that defines what the attitude and the aggression and the

1065
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:12,199
nastiness that Nirvana brought to the rock music scene, that

1066
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:20,079
is this song. Oh it's so good. I love it.

1067
00:59:20,199 --> 00:59:20,719
I love it.

1068
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, this is where I become the old man.

1069
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:31,039
As soon as they start singing that attitude, I'm like, no, no, no,

1070
00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:35,840
this is definitely not pop production right here. This is

1071
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:40,000
full on punk, which is not to my liking.

1072
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,559
Speaker 3: Right I can't say whether it's full on punk or

1073
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:45,480
not because I've never been a punk guy, but this

1074
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:47,800
is definitely If I was going to say this is

1075
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,079
the punkiest song on there, yeah, I would say this

1076
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:50,440
is it.

1077
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,679
Speaker 2: This is not the worst song on the album. The

1078
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,719
song sucks, It is not the worst song on the album. Okay,

1079
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,039
all right, Yeah, keep going. Gotta find a way, a

1080
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:01,000
better way for as good as I enjoy his voice

1081
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:04,000
and how he strains it kind of leans on it

1082
01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:08,280
in teen spirit and stuff like that, yeah, he it

1083
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,559
breaks on him on this one, and it's no good

1084
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:10,760
to me.

1085
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's not doing that. He's not doing your

1086
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,599
hooky melody in this one there. That's true melody. Just

1087
01:00:16,599 --> 01:00:19,480
because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you. I

1088
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:21,519
had to think about that line for a long time.

1089
01:00:23,719 --> 01:00:26,199
So this was not obviously not a single forum. I

1090
01:00:26,199 --> 01:00:29,360
think this is probably one that their fans love, but

1091
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,519
probably not for the masses. Would you agree?

1092
01:00:32,719 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the type where the guy next to

1093
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:36,960
you punches you in the face just because he's joying

1094
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,840
the concert. Yeah, I do not care for that. Please.

1095
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:45,000
Can we move on to the next song?

1096
01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can move on all right.

1097
01:00:46,679 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: Next song is called Drain You, says.

1098
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:06,559
Speaker 3: This is another one. This one comes from his relationship

1099
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:11,079
with Tobey Vail yep. And the song starts off with

1100
01:01:11,519 --> 01:01:14,079
one baby says to another, I'm lucky to have met you,

1101
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:16,599
and that was something that she used to say to him.

1102
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:19,840
But then shortly thereafter, it's my duty now to drain you,

1103
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:23,159
because that's kind of how he felt the breakup went.

1104
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,880
But it's a good one. I like it.

1105
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 2: It's a good song. It's a good song. Kirk Obank

1106
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:36,679
claimed that this song was the equal or better than

1107
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:37,920
teen Spirit.

1108
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,199
Speaker 3: It does have that kind of pop hook to it.

1109
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,039
To me, it's it's got a very Allison Chains feel

1110
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,239
to it. The way that the harmonies are going in

1111
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:50,400
the chorus sounds a lot like Jerry Cantrell and Lane's

1112
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,639
Day to me. But it's just my thought. I don't

1113
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:55,440
know that I would say it's as good as well.

1114
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,079
Speaker 2: No way, no way, I'm going against the Kurt on

1115
01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:03,519
this one. Dave Girl actually compared this one to Bohemian Rhapsody.

1116
01:02:03,639 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 3: He's kind of a.

1117
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:07,119
Speaker 2: Goofball, right, But I gotta disagree with both of them.

1118
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:09,559
This is a good song, yeah, but there is no

1119
01:02:09,679 --> 01:02:11,039
way it's as good as teen spar.

1120
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 3: They're a little more proud of it than we are,

1121
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:19,760
I think. Okay, So next song on the album is

1122
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:28,400
Lounge Act. Another good song. Okay, So when I was

1123
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,960
a kid, I used to lay in bed and when

1124
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:33,840
I couldn't go to sleep, I would play with my

1125
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:43,599
voice and it sounded like That's what the beginning of

1126
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:47,519
this song is. And then you go into this really big.

1127
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: I'll rest myself.

1128
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 3: Well, this is probably the poppyist to me, this is

1129
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,519
the poppyist sounding song on the album.

1130
01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:02,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. It's got the same it's just solid guitars.

1131
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:05,039
It's a head bobber. It's a good song.

1132
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:05,559
Speaker 6: I like it.

1133
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:09,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, not the best song on the album, just no.

1134
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:10,679
It's a song that you cruise on through.

1135
01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:15,519
Speaker 2: This is actually the tenth most favorite song by Nirvana

1136
01:03:15,519 --> 01:03:17,440
fans really, according to Rolling Stone.

1137
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:20,239
Speaker 3: Okay, well it's a head It's yeah, I was gonna

1138
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,800
say it's hooky. I got it, but didn't like it.

1139
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:23,880
Didn't blow my screwed up.

1140
01:03:24,039 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Next one song called stay Away.

1141
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not a fan.

1142
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,519
Speaker 2: Didn't like it, really didn't like this.

1143
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 3: One, all right. So just in case you might have

1144
01:03:41,519 --> 01:03:44,000
forgotten whether Dave Girl can hit the drums hard or not,

1145
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:45,920
this song answers that question.

1146
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 2: That's true, fast and hard.

1147
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:50,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is speedy, less hooky.

1148
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 2: But I mean, all these songs you can sing along to.

1149
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 3: This is a song where this is another one of

1150
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,400
the songs. I'm like, Okay, this is good. This is

1151
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:08,480
not one that I remember, but definitely a good song

1152
01:04:08,519 --> 01:04:09,800
to listen to. I don't have a whole lot to

1153
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:10,480
say about it.

1154
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: It's okay, it's all right, okay, all right. Next song

1155
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:19,760
is called on a Plane stout in words, yats.

1156
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:33,239
Speaker 3: It's okay. So this one, to me, this is this

1157
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,000
is what I'm dissatisfied with, because to me, this one

1158
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:39,559
almost sounds like the bands that came out after Nirvana

1159
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:42,320
that we're trying to sound like Nirvana. That's what this

1160
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:43,159
one sounds like to me.

1161
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:45,719
Speaker 2: It is interesting. This one has a little bit of

1162
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,239
the you know that's stuff that you don't really expect

1163
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,000
Nirvana to do.

1164
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one is not mine. This is not in

1165
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:55,159
my top Nirvana songs at all.

1166
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:55,639
Speaker 4: I like it.

1167
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 2: I mean it's good, it's catchy, it's a pop song.

1168
01:04:58,960 --> 01:04:59,639
It's a pop song.

1169
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now they had a version of it on Unplugged,

1170
01:05:04,039 --> 01:05:06,400
which was completely different plane.

1171
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:14,519
Speaker 6: Dam on the plane.

1172
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,599
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously Unplugged has a lot of different you

1173
01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:20,119
don't have the distortion of your guitar. But they've got

1174
01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:23,039
a cello playing on that one, and I enjoyed that one,

1175
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,599
more natural sounding song. But this is one that Kurt

1176
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:30,400
Cobain later on would say he wasn't happy with how

1177
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,360
it turned out on the album.

1178
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 2: I do think it'll be interesting once we get done

1179
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,719
with these songs. To talk about his response to the album.

1180
01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:38,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said the way we play it live, and

1181
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,199
it's funny because they I mean, he wrote the lyrics

1182
01:05:41,239 --> 01:05:44,440
for the song like five minutes before the song was recorded,

1183
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,559
and so they didn't play it live until after they

1184
01:05:46,599 --> 01:05:48,599
had already done the recording. But he said he liked

1185
01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:50,679
the way they played it live better, had a raw

1186
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:51,440
or sound to it.

1187
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, butch Vig puts out good pop songs.

1188
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:59,440
I can and he made them superstars. Dude, I will

1189
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:01,679
not and I don't not say anything bad about Butcher

1190
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,079
vigue with this. Just this particular song is a little

1191
01:06:04,519 --> 01:06:07,320
overproduced for the songs on this album. It's still a

1192
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,360
Nirvana song, it's still kicks by, but it's just not

1193
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:10,920
my favorite.

1194
01:06:11,079 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

1195
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the best song on side too, Okay.

1196
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:20,480
And that song is called Something in the Way.

1197
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:23,719
Speaker 3: So this one is beautiful.

1198
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,719
Speaker 2: I love it. It's it's gorgeous.

1199
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's a Beatles song that's got the lyrics

1200
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:30,480
Something in the Way as well.

1201
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 6: Bridge.

1202
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 3: Topestrong. But this is this was a unique songs all around.

1203
01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:46,679
Speaker 2: When I listen to this song, to me, I listen

1204
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,800
to this song, and you put Madonna's song Secret next

1205
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,800
to it, I think it sounds very similar.

1206
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: Okay, we can put that to the test.

1207
01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:06,199
Speaker 2: Okay, the same since you came into this song when

1208
01:07:06,239 --> 01:07:09,360
they were they were working in the studio and Kurt

1209
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:12,400
was not satisfied with how the recording was going, and

1210
01:07:12,519 --> 01:07:14,679
so he went to the control room and he told

1211
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,159
Butch He's like, this is the way it needs to

1212
01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:17,840
be said. He's like almost like a whisper.

1213
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:21,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, he lays down like he's on the couch. Yeah,

1214
01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:23,760
he's lays down on the couch. He's got a five

1215
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:24,320
string guitar.

1216
01:07:24,679 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 2: Butch says, okay, dude, hold on a second, just stay

1217
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,239
right there, don't move, and he goes and gets a

1218
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,280
microphone and he tells everybody, okay, everybody quiet.

1219
01:07:32,679 --> 01:07:35,159
Speaker 3: He said, go for it. Yeah, in the control room

1220
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,960
on the couch right, And then that's how they captured it.

1221
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:40,599
They used that as the core of the song afterwards.

1222
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,719
And so then Dave Groll and Chris Novacelik have to

1223
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:48,760
record to something that wasn't on a click track like

1224
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,760
this is the They're just going by how Kurt felt

1225
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,079
the rhythm was going. So this is this is a

1226
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,400
very soulful, spiritual kind of song, and the lyrics are

1227
01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:01,639
kind of a you know, a guy under a bridge

1228
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,159
with no place else to go, talking to the animals.

1229
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:07,199
It's you know, there was a like people kind of

1230
01:08:07,239 --> 01:08:09,440
talked about, oh, did he really live under a bridge now,

1231
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:14,440
But this again kind of captures that feeling of isolation

1232
01:08:15,199 --> 01:08:18,880
and of not knowing where you belong. That guys my

1233
01:08:19,039 --> 01:08:22,600
age were feeling like, you know, we were in the nineties.

1234
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:27,039
We're sixteen, seventeen years old, and we just don't know

1235
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:30,279
what the point of everything is, right, and so this

1236
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,079
is one of those songs that kind of captured that feeling.

1237
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 2: They brought in a guy to play cello on this song. Yeah,

1238
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,399
not many Nirvana songs you hear a cello on, not.

1239
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 3: On this album, that's true. Yeah, but it's so soulful

1240
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:47,119
and sweet. I love it. Whenever they were recording Dave

1241
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,960
and Chris's parts, Kurk kept sitting behind Dave going no quieter.

1242
01:08:55,239 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 2: I love this song. And this to me is a

1243
01:08:58,199 --> 01:09:02,119
heavy hitter up there with Come as You Are in Lithium. Yeah,

1244
01:09:02,199 --> 01:09:03,560
it's really, really, really good.

1245
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,079
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. It is the It is the most beautiful

1246
01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:18,119
on the album for sure. All Right, okay, we done,

1247
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:34,000
and then we have the secret track. Yeah, okay, hold on, Okay,

1248
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:39,319
that's enough of that. Yeah, okay, that's not a song.

1249
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 2: That's not a song. No.

1250
01:09:41,159 --> 01:09:43,319
Speaker 3: So they I mean, this is like something where they

1251
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:45,920
were just jamming, and this is a jam session and

1252
01:09:46,119 --> 01:09:47,279
this is just them.

1253
01:09:48,199 --> 01:09:50,279
Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, this is what I heard about

1254
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:53,800
this song. Okay, they were trying they were working on Lithium, yes,

1255
01:09:54,239 --> 01:09:57,520
and they were having some difficulty making it work, and

1256
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,720
then this is just an improv jam session and it's

1257
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,560
frustration and I'm mad, and they just kind of went

1258
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,560
with it. But Big left the tape recording and he

1259
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,560
picked it up. Now, then they should have thrown it

1260
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:12,800
in the.

1261
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:18,359
Speaker 3: Trash, right. Well, the the guy who did the Master,

1262
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,600
who masters, is saying he came in, like everybody was

1263
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,199
supposed to meet at a certain time, and he came

1264
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:27,479
in to do the Master and nobody was there. So

1265
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,760
he was like, all right, well, I guess I go

1266
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,720
ahead and get started working. And so he made this

1267
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,119
whole master, which, if you don't know what that is,

1268
01:10:34,239 --> 01:10:37,760
that's creating the one piece that all of the other

1269
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,359
pieces come from. Right before digital really became big, you

1270
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,520
had to have a master to go back to so

1271
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,319
that you could get the cleanest sound. So he's putting

1272
01:10:46,359 --> 01:10:50,520
all of these things in the master, and here's endless nameless,

1273
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,159
and he's like, okay, that obviously is not supposed to

1274
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:53,880
go on the album.

1275
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 2: Right, that is so horrible. I can tell without even

1276
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:59,560
asking anybody that doesn't belong here.

1277
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, his name was Howie Weinberg, and so he leaves

1278
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:08,119
that off and they printed twenty thousand album CDs and

1279
01:11:08,199 --> 01:11:11,880
tapes without it, Yeah, without it, And then Kirk Cobains

1280
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,000
finally listens to one of them and he's like, wait

1281
01:11:14,039 --> 01:11:17,560
a minute, where's Endless Nameless? And so they were like,

1282
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,319
we told you that had to be on there, and

1283
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:24,000
he's like, okay, yeah, I thought that was a joke.

1284
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, Yeah, it's I don't know what that is.

1285
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,119
So they got really mad and they actually made them

1286
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:33,279
reprint the album with that on there. It was kind

1287
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:36,399
it was it's a secret track, yeah right, yeah, it

1288
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,560
comes all the way after Something in the Something in

1289
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,079
the Way Now weird Al actually has a.

1290
01:11:43,239 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 3: Version of this Endless Nameless.

1291
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,279
Speaker 5: Yes, oh no, it's called bite Me. Okay, it's a

1292
01:11:49,359 --> 01:11:52,199
secret track. I can't remember what record is on. It's

1293
01:11:52,199 --> 01:11:54,039
got to be on the one that smells like it's

1294
01:11:54,039 --> 01:11:56,960
got to be and it's called bite Me. Okay, we'll

1295
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:01,720
find that. So when they first when all these songs.

1296
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:06,119
Speaker 3: Were done and they had recorded them all butch Vig

1297
01:12:06,319 --> 01:12:08,199
tried to do the mix for him and they were

1298
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,000
neither he nor the band was happy with it. So

1299
01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:14,199
they brought in this guy called Andy Wallace who had

1300
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,520
co produced Seasons in the abyss by Slayer, which they loved,

1301
01:12:19,119 --> 01:12:23,720
and unfortunately, you know, the band, even though they said

1302
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,000
they loved the mixes, they would later on say, yeah,

1303
01:12:27,039 --> 01:12:29,119
we didn't really like the way that that sounded. We

1304
01:12:29,319 --> 01:12:31,960
you know, Kirk Cobain said it sounded closer to Motley

1305
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:33,359
Crue than a punk rock record.

1306
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a little bit embarrassed at the production of

1307
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:36,079
this one.

1308
01:12:36,239 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1309
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 2: I mean punk as a definition as a genre.

1310
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, is not produced. It's just like right, yeah, it's

1311
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:45,880
it's Yeah. If you want a song that it's going

1312
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,279
to appeal to the masses, if you want to achieve

1313
01:12:48,399 --> 01:12:51,439
what you said your goal is, you want your art

1314
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,279
to mean something, so you want it to appeal as

1315
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,920
to as many people as possible so that you can

1316
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,720
get their attention, you don't produce a punk album right. Right.

1317
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,239
Speaker 2: Once again, we've talked about this, how some movie stars

1318
01:13:03,279 --> 01:13:07,239
don't watch their movies, right And for me, I mean,

1319
01:13:07,279 --> 01:13:10,479
I understand creating art as you want it to be, yeah,

1320
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,199
but this was so impactful to me that they should

1321
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:15,319
love this album.

1322
01:13:15,399 --> 01:13:18,039
Speaker 3: Right, And you know, it's it's kind of again being

1323
01:13:18,119 --> 01:13:21,880
in that situation where people are obsessing about it and

1324
01:13:22,319 --> 01:13:25,520
constantly talking to you about it and constantly asking you

1325
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:27,359
questions that I can see how it would wear on

1326
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:31,640
you after a while. But he, Kurt Cobain would say, actually,

1327
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,920
I really I still really enjoyed playing smells like teen Spirit.

1328
01:13:36,359 --> 01:13:39,000
It just became such a thing that it almost became

1329
01:13:39,079 --> 01:13:42,640
embarrassing to play because of how obsessive people were about it.

1330
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:47,359
Speaker 2: Right. I did hear Chris talk about talk about Nevermind? Yeah,

1331
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,159
like a twenty year later retrospective. Yes, he says, the

1332
01:13:51,239 --> 01:13:53,800
best thing I've ever been associated with. Yeah, So it's

1333
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:58,479
that makes me feel good. I love I thoroughly enjoyed it. Sure,

1334
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:00,840
And the fact that he thoroughly enjoys it does make

1335
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:01,439
me feel better.

1336
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:08,520
Speaker 3: Right, I'm sure that everybody listening to this knows what

1337
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,640
the history is. They produce other albums, and then in

1338
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:18,000
nineteen ninety four, Kurt Cobain commits suicide at his home

1339
01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:21,000
in Washington, And there's lots of stories there that we're

1340
01:14:21,039 --> 01:14:24,159
not going to go into at this time. But you know,

1341
01:14:24,319 --> 01:14:27,399
kind of in doing this and looking at this, I

1342
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,479
almost like, if I'm watching this as a movie, I

1343
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,319
don't see any other ending except that he can't grow old.

1344
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,560
He has to be eternally youthful. He has to be

1345
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:42,359
twenty seven forever, because you can't be the voice of

1346
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:47,039
the generation. You can't you change the music the way

1347
01:14:47,079 --> 01:14:50,720
that he did and continue on and still have the impact.

1348
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,920
I don't know, so he was. I read this about

1349
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,960
Michael Stipe of RAM. They were planning an album together,

1350
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,880
Kirk Cobain and Michael Steiper planning to do an album

1351
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,000
together that would have been completely different than anything they

1352
01:15:07,039 --> 01:15:12,159
had done before, clean, bringing in orchestra style music, and

1353
01:15:12,279 --> 01:15:14,319
I can't even I mean, can you just imagine Kirk

1354
01:15:14,359 --> 01:15:18,199
Cobain with an orchestra or with strings behind him, with

1355
01:15:18,399 --> 01:15:25,039
very clean but we never got that.

1356
01:15:25,359 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 2: Sadly, sadly, yeah, sadly.

1357
01:15:27,159 --> 01:15:28,319
Speaker 3: I remember when that happened.

1358
01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 2: That was I mean, people held candlelight vigils and were

1359
01:15:33,239 --> 01:15:36,439
crying and shocked. And if you grew up in the nineties,

1360
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,000
this sky was your John Lennon.

1361
01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah for some folks for sure.

1362
01:15:40,319 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 2: So do we want to talk a little bit about

1363
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,079
the impact of the album. Yea, For me, it's interesting

1364
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:51,119
because it's had this huge, huge impact. It wasn't the

1365
01:15:51,199 --> 01:15:53,039
best selling album of nineteen ninety two.

1366
01:15:53,279 --> 01:15:53,520
Speaker 3: Okay.

1367
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 2: In fact, according to Who you look at. It was

1368
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,840
beat out by at least three albums by Garth Brooks,

1369
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,640
an album by Crisscross, and an album by Billy Ray Cyrus.

1370
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 3: Oh my, well again you have you have folks who

1371
01:16:08,079 --> 01:16:11,760
buy in at certain points. You have the early adopters,

1372
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,840
you've got the masses, and then you've got the the

1373
01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:18,840
tag alongs or the late adopters. And yeah, I can

1374
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,359
see this was not a thing. Like I mean, a

1375
01:16:21,399 --> 01:16:23,479
lot of our listening audience, like if they came in

1376
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,439
with Van Halen. I bet a lot of those guys

1377
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,199
are like, I don't want to listen to something about

1378
01:16:27,319 --> 01:16:31,359
Nirvana right because it was it was a revolution against

1379
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,880
that style of music. Yeah, for sure, I love them both,

1380
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:34,520
so I'm good with it.

1381
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,520
Speaker 2: The staying power, though, is really the is the factor here,

1382
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:43,720
because I mean Crisscross gone, Billy Ray Cyrus gone. Yeah,

1383
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:44,920
I mean Garth Brooks.

1384
01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:50,239
Speaker 3: Those Garth Brooks albums are kind of iconic. But yeah,

1385
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,680
but yeah, let me if you haven't, if you haven't

1386
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:55,640
listened to this album from beginning to end, if you

1387
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,920
kind of wrote off the Proper Grammer, if you wrote

1388
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,319
off Nirvana back in the nineties, take a listen again.

1389
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,039
Sincerely listen with an open mind, and I think you'll

1390
01:17:06,079 --> 01:17:06,560
be impressed.

1391
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,520
Speaker 2: We talked about it. Both of us sort of rediscovered

1392
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,319
this album and it's impressive. Yeah, it's impressive.

1393
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 3: And so next week we're going to move on to

1394
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,319
another impressive album that came out at the same time,

1395
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:22,239
which I have a whole different experience with. And I'm

1396
01:17:22,279 --> 01:17:25,000
excited to talk about that one. You talked about waiting

1397
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:27,000
thirty five years. I've been waiting nearly thirty years to

1398
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:28,119
talk about this one for sure.

1399
01:17:28,279 --> 01:17:29,399
Speaker 2: Great, I can't wait.

1400
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:32,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, so next week we'll talk about Pearl Jams ten.

1401
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,199
Stay tuned for that one, and you will hear our

1402
01:17:35,239 --> 01:17:40,479
final judgment as to which of the grunge albums are

1403
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:44,880
the best. Stay tuned for that. And if please subscribe now,

1404
01:17:45,079 --> 01:17:46,239
you know all you have to do if you're on

1405
01:17:46,359 --> 01:17:49,279
your phone, you scroll down on your phone. There's a

1406
01:17:49,279 --> 01:17:51,319
little subscribe button. Hit that button right now, and then

1407
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:53,399
you won't miss that next episode when it comes out.

1408
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. I hope that some of our

1409
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,840
Van Helen and def guys have stuck around for this one. Yeah,

1410
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,039
thank you for doing that. We sure appreciate you. Thank

1411
01:18:04,079 --> 01:18:04,880
you so much for listening.

1412
01:18:05,399 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 3: See you next week, See you next week. Sart, all music, images,

1413
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,239
and movie clips are used for the purposes of commentary

1414
01:18:16,279 --> 01:18:19,239
and education in conjunction with the fair Use agreement under

1415
01:18:19,239 --> 01:18:20,319
the US copyright law.