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Speaker 1: Alrighty, welcome everybody to a live stream version of the

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Reality Based podcast. Today, I'm joined by Jay Dyer, one

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of my absolute favorite content creators. I spend an obscene

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amount of time listening to Jay's content. Every single time

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I go on a plane, I download three or four

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of your videos, your long form philosophical introductions to philosophy

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and talking about descartes and talking about marks and all

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of these sorts of people, and it's just unbelievably informative.

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So I'm an absolute nerd for Dier's analysis. So thanks

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for joining me today.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, you get to hear me being mean to

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a lot of idiots. Then if you hear the yeah

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long debates, But.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I think, actually my favorite ones are

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your long form just monologues about different philosophers and about

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introduction to philosophy. And I like how you break down

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philosophy into the three branches of metaphysics, ethics, and epistemology

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and explain all of that, and it's just it's just

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for somebody who's like learning trying to learn philosophy and

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understand it, to be able to just isolate all of

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the different aspects and all of the different philosophers and

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all of the different branches of philosophy and understand it,

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because it just goes over my head when I hear

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people speaking like a lot of sort of philosophical jargon

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without actually isolating it and talking about the different branches

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of the tree, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to a lot of people it's that way.

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It's just kind of like anything if you're learning an instrument,

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eventually it just kind of comes. But you know, decoding

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the jargon it's not that difficult, and I think, you know,

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if you just persevere, it'll start making sense, especially when

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you get into the more abstract stuff with Plato or

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Aristotle or transcendental arguments. It becomes pretty you know, secondhand,

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once you're used to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So today I wanted to focus a bit on

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some more mystic mystic topics, I guess, like some of

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the things that we're seeing with the Pyramids at the moment,

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and also get a little bit into Eastern religions and

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your take on things like Hinduism. And I'm actually in

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Asia at the moment and I'm seeing a lot of

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these sort of spiritual practices and since reading a little

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bit into orthodoxy. You can't really unsee the relationship that

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they have with the quote unquote gods or demons over here.

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Speaker 3: So I want to talk about little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: But in regards to the Pyramids, I mean, there's so

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many different theories out there. We've got the Zacharais Sitchens guy.

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We've got like Magical Egypt by John Anthony West and

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people like this. We've got Graham Hancock does a lot

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of work in this regard. They've got the Sphinx having

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all of the water damage to suggest that it's like

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much older than what people think, and that there used

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to be a rainforest there where the desert is now.

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And then recently we've had this discovery where it may

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or may not be the case that there are these

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massive pillars underneath the pyramids.

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Speaker 3: So how have you and Arper did that? Do you

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think that there's any sort of merit to that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, a lot of the technology that they're using,

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it's all pretty new to me. I started reading about

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that last week or whatever it was they first announced it.

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So I don't know that I could speak to exactly

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what's going on. I've tried my best to get to

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the bottom of it, decipher it, and it looks like

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there's something going on, you know, when you talk about

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that underwater chamber. I did go and find the mister

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bs video where he supposedly, you know, went down there

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and got in the water. So there actually is a large,

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sizeable pool of water underneath the sphinx. I think that's right,

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or one of the tombs. And so to me, that

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does suggest the possibility that there's stuff that we don't know.

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I think it is confirmed from the paper from twenty

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twenty two that there's at least some under the pyramid

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chambers that were not known about until recently. But more

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controversial is the claim of the yet to be here

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reviewed new paper by the same people like Bondie and

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the other guy, that there are these resonances that can

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be shot out that pick up supposedly, you know, two

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kilometer long cylindrical things underneath the pyramid. So if that

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technology is real, as best I could see, it's a

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real thing, and if their readings are real, it does

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suggest that there's something going on. But you know, I

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just I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. I mean,

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it would line up with you know, different alternative narratives

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of history for these kinds of places, these kinds of

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important you know, wonders of the world, and it perhaps

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could suggest something like a global flood. I do think

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that the Biblical narrative would line up with this. It

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might suggest, you know, the Genesis six narrative that I'm

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sure everybody's heard about the Nephelim and the idea that

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there might have been at some point Titans that existed,

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and that that might relate to you know, the ancient

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world and many of the other megaliths and you know

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unexplained sort of pyramids and ziggurats throughout the world. So

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there's a lot of possibilities here, and you know, it's

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fun to look into. I have read over the years

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you mentioned West, and I've read some other people that

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have written on I read Graham Hancock's book back in

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the day, So yeah, I try to keep an open mind,

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but I don't have any set conclusion on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your take on like ancient civilizations, Because I

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think Graham Hancock and guys like this, they have really

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opened the door for this discussion to be happening that

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civilization actually might be a lot older and this shit

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is so fascinating when you look into it. Like even

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where I'm at at the moment in Indonesia, there's a

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place called Ganang Pedang, which they've they've.

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Speaker 3: Done like what is it called.

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Speaker 1: We just drilled down into the earth and they get

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like like some sort of material from the structures below

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and they combondate it and it's something like twenty thousand

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years old when they when they get low enough. I mean,

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do you think that civilization is a lot older? And

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I want to get into the to the whole Nephelin

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thing very soon, do you think the civilization is a

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lot older than people would have us believe.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you look at where they make that extrapolation,

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people like Hancock or others. You know, when I was

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in Bible College, we did a pretty in depth analysis

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of the yogamesh Epic, the anuma Alish and these other

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you know, ancient Ugar, Riddic and Mesopotamian texts, and they

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have these really kind of wild claims about the kings

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and that they were they sort of deified them in

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the text that you know, King ya Unki, whoever lived

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to be one hundred thousand years old or ten thousand

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years old, So I don't put a whole lot of

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stock in those texts because they're kind of wild and outlandish,

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which is not I mean, I don't out of hand

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dismiss it, but I tend to view I have a

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pretty maybe outside the norm view that I tend to

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think Genesis is pretty historical. So I'm kind of probably

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in the minority with that view. So I tend to

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favor and give precedence to the Genesis narrative over what

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I would read in the Inuma a leash or something

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like that. So I disagree with Hancock about, you know,

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the dating, but I do think it's possible that there

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are alternative narratives that are covered up about things like

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the Pyramid about a global flood. In fact, that's actually

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in a lot of ancient mythological traditions. If you read

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the Eiching, I think the first few pages of it

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discusses a global flood. Hancock even talks about in the

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Dune in Peru. There's ancient Peruvian myths of a global flood.

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The Mesopotamian text, the Inumalish, the the go gomesh Epic,

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they also describe a global flood. So well, I do

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think there's a lot of attestation to the possibilities of

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alternative narratives, and maybe the timelines are not what we're

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told that kind of stuff. But but yeah, don't I don't.

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I tend to favor more of a Genesis account.

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Speaker 1: And if Genesis were to be actually historically accurate, when

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when would that be dated back to?

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Speaker 2: In the Orthodox Church, we have what's called the Byzantine calendar,

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and it would range from about six to ten thousand

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years for the age of the earth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, And so I mean, in terms of

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the Orthodox view, if you could give like an overview

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of of like the history of civilization, what did I

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say about that?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think a great question. But I think we

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have to admit that the further back we go, the

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fog year. It is especially for the if you do

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believe in the Genesis account, right, you have the flood

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by you know, Genesis eight, nine, ten eleven, and then

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you get you know, the events like the Tower Babble afterwards,

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and so there's a lot of things that are not

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really mentioned. We don't really know the way that that

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world functioned or how it functioned. But there's two interesting

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things that do speak to it that kind of relate

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to tradition. One is the Book of ench which is

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a fascinating text that is cited in the New Testament.

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So the Book of Jude does cite the Book of Enuch,

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which is one of the reasons why I do think

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the Genesis six narrative is talking about angels and not

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just righteous godly men that went after pagan women. And

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there's other texts and what's called the Judo Kennon. This

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would be like Judith or the Book of Baruk. These

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texts do also mention the Titans as the offspring of

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Genesis six. So if you have a Catholic or an

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Orthodox Bible, you have those extra books that would also

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attest to Genesis six being about angels and men and

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thus the Nephilim or the Titans or the Giants. But

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the Book of Enich describes specifically that this world was

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very corrupted before the flood and that you had these

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yeah essentially what was demonic human sacrifice that these entities required.

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And so one of the reasons for the flood is

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that that they've become so corrupt and they seem to

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have set up this sort of something to do with

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zigarots and pagan worship such that it required human sacrifice,

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which is a pretty universal ancient thing. Amongst all the cultures,

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most of them practice human sacrifice, which I do think

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again kind of attests to the biblical narrative. And then

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outside of the biblical stories or the tradition of the

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Book of Enoch, you have Plato. And Plato has two

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places particularly where he talks about ancient anti what could

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be antidiluvian civilizations. It's particularly the Timaeis, which is the

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most fascinating of all of Plato's discourses, and it's the

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one that's the cosmology, cosmogony of the universe, and it's

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very esoteric. He says that he got this tradition from

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a man who went to the priests in Egypt who

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handed him down this ancient tradition. And there's also a

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mention of Atlantis, and I think Priido is the other.

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There's two dialogues, I think Crido and tomaas mentioned these

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ancient civilizations. Now Plato doesn't give it like any kind

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of weird you know, he doesn't say they had UFOs

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or you know, advanced technology per se, but he says

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it was like a concentric a city of concentric circles

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that were like rivers and lakes, and they were very powerful.

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And he says that like in one day, like they

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were just destroyed by a flood. So that's another ancient

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attestation to the possibility of these other types of civilization

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and you know, lost civilization, so to speak. And one

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last thing too that a lot of people don't know about.

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If you read the Fayeta, which is another one of

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the Platonic dialogues, this lesser known In that dialogue, Socrates

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talks about that there are undiscovered realms and places deep

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below the earth that could inclose or could include inhabitants

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or vegetation things like that. He doesn't say that there's

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like hollow earst people, but it sounds like he's talking

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about the hollow earth theory, which a lot of people

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don't know. That's in Plato. So I'm not saying that

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that means it's true. I'm just saying that, you know,

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there could be all kinds of ancient civilizations that we

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don't know about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can you do through the Book of Enoch because

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I always find that really fascinating. Was that Billy Billy

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Carson always talks about the Book of Enoch, and so

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Enoch was Enoch was someone's uncle.

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Speaker 2: Well, Enoch in the book. He's in Genesis early on,

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and we don't we're not told much about him. But

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in Genesis, after you have canaan Abel, you have like

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basically two lineages that split from Adam and Eve. One

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line of people are the wicked, and then another line

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of people are the righteous, and so that they constitute

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the church of that time from the Orthodox perspective. And

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amongst the righteous, one of them was a guy named Enich,

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and we're not told a whole lot about him, but

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that he walked with God and was apparently translated or taken.

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So he along with he's mentioned in the New Testament

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along with Elijah because of the two people that have

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not yet undergone physical death, and so they actually make

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an appearent appearance in places in the New Testament where

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it talks about, you know, people that have not yet

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even undergone a physical death. So there's this tradition in

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the Church that there is something going on with the

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person of Enoch in the Book of Genesis, and the

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Book of Enich is a older than the New Testament.

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But it's not exactly we don't exactly know where it

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comes from. It's kind of a mysterious text. It's not

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part of the Orthodox canon, but it's part of loosely,

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as you could say, part of our tradition because it's

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cited again in the New Testament in Jude three. So

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the book basically describes the state of the world before

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the flood, and it does attribute the existence of the

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Nephelin to some sort of intermixing or interbreeding or intermarriage

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between the sons of God or the angels and women.

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And so Jude then rebukes anyone who would leave their

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natural state to go after something unnatural, and we know

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it's unnatural because he likens the sons of God going

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after human women as something that was improper to their

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rank or their classification. So that I think is definitely

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what the New test was talking about when it talks

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about that in June three. But I think that the

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Book of Enoch describes it pretty hillacious. It's almost like

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hell Raiser type of world where you have these you

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have these beings that are basically requiring humans worship them

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as deities and then you know, sacrifice other humans to them.

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And thus some people would then argue that the legends

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that we have in Greek mythology about the Titans, sons

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of the gods, the giants, et cetera, that that led

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that that mythology of the Titans, or perhaps you know

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the story of Hercules or something like that. You know,

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these might be aberrations or traditions that come from this

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primeval antediluvian before the flood world.

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Speaker 1: And why do these like modern day mystics or whatever

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like these these people like Billy Carson, et cetera, Why

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did they always talk about the Book of Enoch and

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why are they always referring to to this book was

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so important to them?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think that if you I mean,

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I viewed Billy Carson as kind of a con man.

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So I think that it's kind of like anything to

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do with the UFOs or you know, the paranormal, it's

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very sensational. People find that to be very you know,

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people love that stuff. You know, it's it's it's it's fun,

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it's entertaining. It's a lot more interesting, you know, like

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the end time stuff in the Bible versus you know,

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Jesus parables or proverbs or whatever. So I think I

286
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think it's a it's a sexier topic to talk about

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for for one reason. But I think in his case,

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I haven't listened a whole lot of his stuff. I

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listened to his debate with Wes Huff and some other clips.

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I mean, he usually tries to tie it into you know,

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gnostic messages of the gods and you know, we was

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Kings type stuff.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and in terms of the nephylum, because I've

294
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heard this this sort of like referenced a lot, what

295
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exactly the nephilin they're like an ancient species of giants.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the the idea is based on Genesis six,

297
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and then other texts like Barrack, which is a dudocononical book,

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Judith duderocononical book, Book of Wisdom, another dudoconical text, Jude three,

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Book of Enich. This inter marriage into relationship that happened

300
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produced aberrations. Again, we're not told a whole lot except

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that they were giants in the Book of Enoch. They

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had a lot of abilities, I guess you could say,

303
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and so they had some degree of technological know how,

304
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they had some degree of prowess, you know, just due

305
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to their stature, and they utilized that in a very

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tyrannical way. And so there's this idea that they required

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not just human sacrifice, but the consumption of blood, blood, rituals,

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this kind of stuff. And that might be why the

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flood was so universal, was that this was pretty much everywhere,

310
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to the point that it would have almost destroyed the

311
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entire creation. And so there was cleansing baptism, so to speak,

312
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as the New Testament speaks seven terms of the flood.

313
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But again it's very speculative. I mean, it's not like

314
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you know that that's a very few verses in the

315
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Bible that allude to this, so it's not like it's

316
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a central aspect of the story. And there is a

317
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lot of debate as to what it means. A lot

318
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of people, church fathers and saints have been split over it.

319
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I mean, you have some that believe that it's these aberrations,

320
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these titans, and then you have other church fathers who

321
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believe that it's just speaking of the sons of God

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being the righteous people of that time, being corrupted by

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marrying into the three or fours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I got ya. And I think a lot

325
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of the time when people look at these stories. They

326
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look at them as like really sort of mystical and

327
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woo woo. And also, if God doesn't make mistakes, then

328
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the argument would be, then how were these sort of

329
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beings created and why and why are these sort of

330
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demons able to run right on the earth.

331
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Speaker 2: And Jesus, you're right that in terms of the original creation,

332
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there's no mistakes. The creation was good, it was pronounced good,

333
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it was in a state of testing and free will.

334
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So we wouldn't necessarily say that free will and the

335
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ability to be tested as a defect, because in God's

336
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fore knowledge and in terms of his divine providence, he

337
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of course knew that the outcomes eventually would be even

338
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better with the incarnation of the Messiah. But we would

339
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say that the source of the entropy, the decay, the mortality,

340
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the corruption is the fall, which was a free will

341
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decision on the part of Adam and Eve to make

342
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a compact with the fallen being Lucifer, the layton who

343
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fell prior to the events of Genesis. We know that

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other Texas scripture described the testing of the angels happening

345
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before the testing of Man, and the angels that rebelled

346
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would become the leading forces that would then test and

347
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try to deceive and corrupt Man. And unfortunately Adam and Eve,

348
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our forefathers, did choose to go along with that rebellion,

349
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and that's what introduced the corrupted state of reality, where

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human beings are now subject to mortality, death, decay, etc.

351
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And the world is also obviously corrupted. So you get

352
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a total change in the metaphysics and the functioning even

353
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to the created order. In the Orthodox perspective and the

354
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orth actual perspective here is unique. It's a little more

355
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flushed out. I would say in this regard that rather

356
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than the typical sort of Latin Western Protestant view, which

357
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just kind of focuses on, well, we send, we did

358
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bad things and so now we're vanished from the garden,

359
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we actually think that it altered the entire structure of

360
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the universe. So the whole universe was situated under Man

361
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as kind of the steward or the covenant head of

362
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the universe. He would have been Adam would have been

363
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a priest to the entire universe had he been righteous.

364
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When he failed, that sort of introduced a giant fissure

365
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in the very fabric of the entire cosmos. So that's

366
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why there's entropy in decay and catastrophism all throughout the

367
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stellar heavens that we see and on Earth as well.

368
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So even things like mosquitoes in the Orthodox view, wouldn't

369
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have functioned in the same sort of predatory cycle way

370
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that we see death and decay functioning. So I don't

371
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mean to go off track, but there's a reason why

372
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I say all that, and that's to get to your

373
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point about the nations where we see these sort of

374
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spirits still being worshiped or or people still being sort

375
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of enslaved to them. You're talking about, you know, places

376
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in Southeast Asia and those kinds of countries where you

377
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,839
see the ancient pagan tradition is still alive and vibrant.

378
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That's the ancient world, right, Like that's how human beings,

379
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generally speaking, we're functioning in the ancient world and the

380
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pre fall or pre flood world after the fall, that's

381
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the way Genesis describes it. But we actually get a

382
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,640
really deeper insight into this, not just in Genesis, but

383
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also in Deuteronomy, where we have the things like the

384
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:41,920
Song of Moses and then the Psalms, where we have

385
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:50,039
descriptions of the nations being underneath various fallen rulers or entities.

386
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So it's almost like when mankind fell and after the

387
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:59,400
Tower Babbel incident, the nations who are now pagan nations

388
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essentially are underneath various beings or demonic spirits, and that's

389
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:12,160
why we see the universality of idolatry human sacrifice, you know,

390
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,559
basically pagan practices throughout the entire ancient world. And again

391
00:23:16,599 --> 00:23:20,119
I think that's something that Genesis attests to, and even

392
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,119
secular history pretty much attests to that. One other thing

393
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,960
i'd say about the civilizations and the megaliths and this

394
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,440
kind of stuff, I would I would I mean, this

395
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,039
doesn't prove anything necessarily, but I would say that if

396
00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:35,599
the biblical narrative is true, it actually does make sense

397
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,039
why you would have these sort of unexplained megaliths and

398
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:46,000
lost civilizations, because it's this primeval pre flood world that

399
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,079
was ravaged, and the flood actually does quite a bit

400
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:55,440
to explain that sort of ravaging, especially like you mentioned,

401
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,799
like if Giza was underwater at some point other places

402
00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:04,160
as well that seemed to defy explanation, and perhaps you

403
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:07,240
had you know, titans or beings like this involved in

404
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:10,799
the construction of some of these ancient you know, Easter

405
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,079
Island heads. We don't know how they got there or

406
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:15,279
what they are. You know, they seem to be they

407
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:18,039
seem to defy explanation, as do some of the other

408
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,119
megalith sites. I'm not saying all of them defy explanation.

409
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,000
I'm sure if some of them were constructed by humans

410
00:24:24,039 --> 00:24:26,279
and could be reconstructed by humans, but some of them

411
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,400
do defy explanation. So you've got you know, underwater pyramids

412
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,039
off the coast of Japan that no one knows what

413
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,559
they are. They just found an entire underground city in

414
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,960
China years ago.

415
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:46,519
Speaker 1: Really yeah, and no one, Well, that is a site.

416
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: That people debate, but I think it's the Long long

417
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,599
U Caves something like that. It's a gigantic cave system

418
00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:57,240
that was found I think maybe twenty years ago, and

419
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,400
it was accidentally found because they drained the village uh

420
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:04,880
water cisterns and somebody found like a door and they

421
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,680
went down to the door and they found an entire

422
00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:12,319
underground city and there's giant columns and just it's it's crazy.

423
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,480
It's massive, and no one knows what it does. No

424
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,119
one knows who built it, what civilization built it, where

425
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,640
it came from. It's just a completely unknown undergrad Yeah.

426
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: Well that's the same with the one in Turkey. Have

427
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,640
you seen that that at that ancient city, that underground

428
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,880
city in Turkey? And the debate that people have is like,

429
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,519
why the hell did they build this thing? Because in

430
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:35,799
one sense they I think that like the generic understanding

431
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:38,559
of it is that the Assyrians were going to invade

432
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:41,759
and then that these people in Turkey had to make

433
00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:45,119
these cities to avoid capture. But it's like that's it, Like,

434
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,359
in the time that would take to create that whole city,

435
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,640
why couldn't they just sort of like relocate? But I

436
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,519
don't know what could both be the other explanation for

437
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:53,440
underground cities.

438
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,319
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean there's all kinds of I guess

439
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,759
speculations that we could come up with. Maybe they believed

440
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:04,920
in some sort of you know, false prophecy that the

441
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,799
world's going to be destroyed, or I mean, who knows, right,

442
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,359
maybe they thought if they if they were invaded by it,

443
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,279
you know, an outside and to be forced, this would

444
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:17,519
be the best way to hold up and hide. I

445
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,880
had no idea. It's a great question. I mean there's

446
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,200
actually a lot of these. I mean, I mean if

447
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,599
you researched into this topic, which I'm not like an

448
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:27,720
expert on it, but like this kind of stuff gets

449
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,079
discovered even all the time. They just found a giant

450
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,640
tunnel network of the Mayans or the Hasteg so like

451
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,480
a few weeks ago, which nobody knew what they were

452
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:40,319
or where they were, and a lot of times this

453
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,880
stuff that they find, like with underneath the pyramid, there

454
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,200
are long standing legends of these things, right, There's these

455
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:52,480
legends that there's you know, caverns and something underneath the

456
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,119
pyramids that no one knows about. There's these legends that

457
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,359
the Aztec, whether it was my Astec, I don't remember,

458
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,480
but that they have these passageways in secret cities or

459
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:06,559
whatever and then they just turn up. So I think

460
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:10,359
that the Japanese underwater Pyramid was discovered like in the

461
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,319
eighties and the nineties. So I think with the technology

462
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:14,799
that we have now, it's going to it makes a

463
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,680
lot more sense with you know, satellites and whatnot, that

464
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,119
this kind of stuff could be much easier to find

465
00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:25,319
than prior to this technology.

466
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they think that the Amazon used to have

467
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:31,640
a bustling population of like ten or twenty million or

468
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,279
something like that. The Amazon used to be actually thriving.

469
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,519
And the crazy thing about the Amazon is that they've

470
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:40,240
got that Terra Parada soil that's man made. It's actually

471
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:42,720
like a man made soil, and the whole entire Amazon

472
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:46,319
is essentially man made. And that there used to be

473
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,160
these sort of bustling, thriving civilizations there until things like

474
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,759
I think smallpox and these other diseases were introduced by

475
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:01,480
the Europeans whatever. But that's insane information about the Amazon

476
00:28:01,519 --> 00:28:02,119
being man made.

477
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've got lost civilizations that just just the

478
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,400
entire groups of people that disappear the Ana sause the

479
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,039
growing up colony. No one knows what happened. They just disappeared,

480
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,880
like you would think there would be some you know,

481
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,119
somebody leaving some kind of message like, hey, we all

482
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,079
died because of the plague. You know, if you don't

483
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,720
find it, so but nothing found, that's that's odd. Yeah.

484
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:28,720
I think that, you know, there's a lot of mysteries

485
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:30,039
when it comes to this stuff. And I would add

486
00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:31,519
too that keep in mind that when it comes to

487
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:36,799
the ancient world, even texts like Plato or Aristotle when

488
00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:40,119
they discussed to some degree this kind of ancient history.

489
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:43,440
I think a lot of people assume that we have

490
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:47,920
Plato's books. No, we don't have Plato's books. The oldest

491
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,519
version of Plato is medieval monastic translations in the West,

492
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,279
so like Middle Ages, like eleven hundred something like that.

493
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,519
That's the oldest version of Plato. So we're it's still like,

494
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,240
you know, fifteen hundred years removed from actual Plato. And

495
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:07,920
now I'm not saying that that means that we should

496
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,319
doubt Plato. I don't think there's reason necessarily to doubt

497
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:15,240
that it was faithfully transmitted. But what it shows is

498
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:19,319
that the further back we go, historians, and I'm speaking

499
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:23,079
as somebody with that was I have a history degree,

500
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,720
historians do a lot of guesswork. They don't there's a

501
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,720
lot they don't know. So when it comes to these

502
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,240
ancient civilizations and all the different theories, it's like when

503
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,079
you hear the sort of normy historians telling you as

504
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,119
if they know everything, like all the there's tons of guesswork,

505
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:40,799
we don't know.

506
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just let everyone knows well in the chat.

507
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,240
We are going to be reading super chests at the

508
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:49,720
end of the stream once we're finished with the discussion.

509
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:52,799
But I find out this stuff really interesting. And you

510
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:55,279
mentioned that these civilizations just sort of go missing, these

511
00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:57,319
whole people groups just go missing. And it's the same

512
00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:01,200
with information as well, because when these civilizations go missing,

513
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,559
all of the information knowledge that they've acquired. That's why

514
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,960
you know, Billy casting forbidden knowledge, you know, forbidden secret knowledge.

515
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:12,400
That's how they say all these sorts of things. But

516
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,319
like you know, there would be a lot of just

517
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,960
knowledge that's just gone missing. You've got the Library of

518
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,119
Alexandria and the Library of Baghdad and all these places

519
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,400
that have just been wiped out throughout histories. Like we

520
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,039
didn't even know what kind of what kind of knowledge

521
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:27,480
could have been lost over the years.

522
00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's entirely possible that some of these ancient

523
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,240
megaliths and sites, perhaps they were built with technology that

524
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:36,480
we don't know about. I don't know that, there's no

525
00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:39,000
way to prove that. It's just again kind of a mystery,

526
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:43,960
but you know, one of the texts in Genesis does

527
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:51,599
talk about the ungodly line of Kin and his descendants

528
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,960
they actually did pioneer quite a bit of things like

529
00:30:56,079 --> 00:31:01,960
metallurgy and the organization, organization, building of cities, you know,

530
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,359
even farming technology. According to the Genesis account is from

531
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,960
the ungodly line of Cain, and it's entirely possible that

532
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,640
because they engaged in the worship of those beings that

533
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,519
the Book of nic talks about. If the Book of

534
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:21,799
Inuch is telling us some kind of tradition that's accurate,

535
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:25,160
then it also has this principle, this point in it

536
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:32,039
that the Nephelim gave to their worshipers things like technology.

537
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,119
Now that doesn't mean spaceships necessarily or something like that,

538
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,839
but it means like the ability to do metallurgy would

539
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,519
have then perhaps come from the knowledge that these beings had.

540
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:48,160
So that is in the Enuch text, which is interesting,

541
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
and that's probably where people like Billy Carson are pulling

542
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,680
the you know, advanced technology claims.

543
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:56,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a lot of those tales if you

544
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,559
look into like I read the book Musicians the Gods

545
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:05,200
by Graham Hancock, and a lot of these ancient texts

546
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:08,720
throughout history have the same sort of theme occurring, which

547
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:11,920
is civilization bringers. You've got these people who I can't

548
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,559
remember what it was. It might have been one of

549
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,119
the ancient like American ancient American civilizations, the Mayans or

550
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,079
whatever that have this idea of there being a great

551
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:24,559
catastrophe and then there being civilization bringers like the people

552
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:27,640
who survived the catastrophe, it still retained the knowledge and

553
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,720
then and then went around the world and spread that

554
00:32:29,799 --> 00:32:30,640
knowledge to everyone.

555
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and fingerprints of the Gods. He has that interesting

556
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:39,519
chapter about in Peru the Nazca lines, which are again

557
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,240
kind of a mysterious thing. We don't really know what

558
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:44,720
their purpose was, because it looks like it would only

559
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:47,240
make sense if you're, you know, from a god's perspective

560
00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:51,720
looking down at these birds and beings that are drawn

561
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:55,519
there at a very large scale. But he also talks

562
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:59,279
in that chapter about this entity that this person or

563
00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:01,640
this being angel or we don't know exactly it was,

564
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,960
but it's this entity called Veraicocha, and Vericocha came and

565
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,279
supposedly left this this myth or this legend of basic

566
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:12,839
moral principles that they should live by not to kill

567
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,640
each other, which I guess they didn't follow that, but

568
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:19,480
be good people, don't kill each other. And I think

569
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:22,160
it was something to do with mentioning the flood as well,

570
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:25,680
that there was a global flood and that eventually other

571
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,599
civilizations would come, which perhaps the Peruvians believe would be

572
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,279
the white Europeans coming to to meet them, because I

573
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:37,440
think they described Vericocha as someone, you know, Caucasian or

574
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,960
white incountenance, and so they thought when the Europeans were coming, oh,

575
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,839
this is the you know, these are the people that

576
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,720
Vericocha talked to us, told us about. So you have

577
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,880
these really interesting, almost prophetic, sort of seated messages and

578
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,359
a lot of these stories and myths, and you also

579
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,279
have some fascinating stuff about North America as well, which

580
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,119
I don't know a whole lot about that, but a

581
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,519
couple of books that i've right on this do discuss

582
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,759
sort of mysterious unknown landmarks in North America, like a

583
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:08,760
lot of these sort of burial mounds that I mean,

584
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,239
we know that the Indians, you know, obviously had burrel mounts,

585
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:18,440
but they they they still discover like underground pyramids to

586
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:21,519
this day. In fact, there was a pyramid. I just

587
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:23,239
watched a documentary on this a few days ago. I

588
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,840
forget where it was, but it was a documentary about

589
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:30,199
the supposed Serbian pyramid. If you heard of this, no,

590
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,840
So there's a debate about this giant mountain that actually

591
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,280
looks like a pyramid, and people are trying to figure

592
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,199
out it's debated there. It does have apparently tunnels underneath it,

593
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,880
which doesn't necessarily mean it's a pyramid. You could have

594
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:48,840
tunnels in a mountain. But it looks a lot like

595
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,400
a pyramid, I have to say, and a lot of

596
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,199
people think that it is. And it even looks more

597
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,880
like a pyramid than I think the pyramid of quetzal Cotal.

598
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,440
If you look at the ol pictures before they kind

599
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,039
of scraped the dirt away, the pyramid of Queticicota looks

600
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:07,880
like just a hill. It looks like a giant burial

601
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,559
mount and then when they cleared away all the stuff,

602
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,480
you know it's actual like Ziggarott underneath there. And the

603
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:17,199
Serbian pyramid, whatever it is, looks more like a pyramid

604
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:23,440
than the Queticota one did. There's also the odd mountain

605
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:27,360
or pyramid in Antarctica, which is people have been debating

606
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,119
that one for a while. To me, it looks pretty pyramidal.

607
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:33,079
I mean, I guess it's possible that it's Paradolia and

608
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:35,840
it's just a mountain that looks like a pyramid, but

609
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,800
it looks pretty symmetrical, so you know that one's another

610
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,639
fascinating one. But I don't know.

611
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, why pyramids though, I mean, uh, like, what's the

612
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,119
story there?

613
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:55,079
Speaker 2: My guess would be that the fallen beings or the demons,

614
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:01,559
for whatever reason, have preferred that form or that geometrical structure.

615
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:04,159
Not that any not than a triangle is inherently evil,

616
00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:07,119
but I think it points to or it's a kind

617
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:12,239
of a react reenactment of Babbel. Whatever the tower Babbel was.

618
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,480
I don't think that it was literally like they thought

619
00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,920
they could climb into heaven. But it was a tower,

620
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:22,960
a giant, you know, Ziggarot built in defiance of the

621
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,519
God of Heaven. That's the way it's described in Genesis.

622
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:30,400
And so Nimrod becomes this sort of one world ruler

623
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:33,920
person who wants to build and create a one world

624
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,679
civilization and pyramid where he's worshiped essentially and perhaps human

625
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,639
sacrificed as well. And believe it or not, the first

626
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:45,599
paper I ever wrote in Bible College back when I

627
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:48,159
was eighteen, it was actually about this was about the

628
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:51,440
Tower of Babel, because my argument in the paper was

629
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,559
that the reason that all of these world imperial you know,

630
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,480
civilizational sites, whether it's Egypt or whether it's the zigg

631
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:04,519
I mean, it's all that pyramidal structure because it's kind

632
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:07,480
of a re enactment of what Babbel is. They want

633
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:11,840
to represent the worship of man in the place of

634
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,039
the worship of the True God.

635
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's just fascinating how it's happening all

636
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,719
over the world. And you also see in a lot

637
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,639
of these places where the pyramids are and are being discovered,

638
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:26,119
you also see a lot of pagan worship as well.

639
00:37:26,519 --> 00:37:29,119
So that story actually kind of does check out in

640
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:32,000
a way. One other thing I've been looking into recently

641
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:33,519
that I've been interested in and I don't really know

642
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:35,719
much about is the Ark of the Covenant. You know,

643
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,920
we've all seen Indiana Jones, but like, what is the

644
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:41,280
Ark of the Covenant and why is that such a

645
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,800
significant thing that people want to find and why is

646
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,679
there so much folklore and historical sort of I guess

647
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,360
like guesses that people have about who had the Ark

648
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,400
of the Covenant, how it was moved around and is

649
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,000
there actually like a verified story about this.

650
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, if you believe that the Old Testament,

651
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:03,400
you know, significant portion of the Torah is dedicated to

652
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,280
the worship of the Temple. At first, it's a tabernacle

653
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,880
when the Jews are in the wilderness and they're kind

654
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,639
of moving about before they reach the Promised Land, they

655
00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:15,840
have a tabernacle, and then later on they build the

656
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:22,280
temple when David conquers Zion, and then in the Temple

657
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,559
you have a you know, a fixed form of worship

658
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:32,079
that's centrally located for all the Israelites. And the inside

659
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:35,360
the Temple, in the Holy of Holies is this box,

660
00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:38,360
which was you know, a decent size sort of a

661
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,679
you said, treasure chests of sorts. But what it's actually

662
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,599
supposed to be not a lot of people know this

663
00:38:43,679 --> 00:38:46,079
unless you kind of go deep into the biblical theology,

664
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:49,400
but it's supposed to be kind of a symbolic chariot.

665
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:52,199
And so like in the ancient world you would have

666
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,840
rulers and kings that would sort of ride in a

667
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,920
victory chariot, right if they want a war or something

668
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,760
like that. And the God of Israel is spoken of

669
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,320
a lot of times in the Old Testament as a

670
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,039
god of war, the Lord of Saba, of Lord of Hosts,

671
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,719
and so he rides, especially if you read the Book

672
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,400
of Ezekiel, a chariot and it's a throne chariot, so

673
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,159
it's both at the same time. And so the arc

674
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,760
is this box which has two seraphim, which are angelic

675
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,239
beings on the top like you see in the Niana Jones,

676
00:39:26,559 --> 00:39:29,519
and it's got polls on it to be carried, so

677
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,639
you're not supposed to touch it, right, because it's holy.

678
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:34,400
But the reason it's holy is because it's this sort

679
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,000
of seat, a mercy seat or a redemption spot where

680
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:44,199
man and God are reconciled. And in the Old Testament,

681
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:48,039
the presence of God, which is a sort of glory cloud,

682
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:53,599
this manifestation or a theophany would sort of situate itself

683
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:59,239
above the ark in the Temple, and the Israelites, for example,

684
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,519
sometimes when they would go to battle, David's going out

685
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:04,079
the battle, they would carry the arc around in front

686
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,800
of them, and it was this sort of symbolic image

687
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,079
of the presence of the Lord of Hosts with them

688
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:16,079
in battle. For the Christian Church, for Orthodox Christians, all

689
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:19,679
of that is for us pointing to Christ because in

690
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:25,000
Ezekiel one through eleven, the one like a son of Man,

691
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:28,000
we think that's Jesus. In the Old Testament, he's pictured

692
00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:32,960
as writing on this celestial chariot. The chariot is the

693
00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:37,159
living beings, these angels. So Jesus rides an angel chariot. Basically,

694
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,760
what I'm trying to say, that's what.

695
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: The arc is.

696
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,039
Speaker 2: The arc is the symbol, and then what Christ is

697
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:48,239
is the reality that corresponds to the typological foreshadowing symbol.

698
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,719
So when He comes and the work that he does

699
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:54,119
in terms of death, row, resurrection, ascension, et cetera, that's

700
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:57,599
all the fulfillment of not just the temple, but also

701
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,960
the arc itself. We also think that Mary, his mother,

702
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:07,000
is the arc. She, for example, was the house from

703
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:10,760
which God came forth. God dwelt in her, was born

704
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,639
from her, and so she becomes a kind of arc.

705
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:16,440
And there's actually direct parallelism in the Book of Luke

706
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,119
in the first couple of chapters that parallels a lot

707
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:23,639
of the imagery of the arc in the historical books

708
00:41:23,679 --> 00:41:26,880
of the Old Testament. So Mary is a new arc.

709
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,000
Jesus himself is the arc.

710
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,039
Speaker 3: Also, what do you mean by by arc?

711
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,639
Speaker 2: Just quickly, it's a it's a box. Basically, it's a

712
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:40,719
golden box that has three elements within it. The pot

713
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,039
of manna from the Jews ate in the wilderness. The

714
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:49,079
rod of Aaron, which symbolizes the authority of the priesthood

715
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,679
that blossoms miraculously. That's for us an image of the

716
00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:57,480
cross or the direction in the Ten Commandments. So you

717
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,599
know Moses' ten commandments and said, those three things inside

718
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:04,239
the arc of the covenant, and they're all the central

719
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,679
images and symbols of God's covenant with Israel. And again

720
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,639
for us, all of that is the person of Christ

721
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:17,079
who becomes a physical arc. His body is the arc

722
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:20,960
ok and he's the fulfillment of all those things. The potom,

723
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,000
he's the manna, the breath, the bread that wet, he's

724
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:27,840
the rod of authority of the priesthood that blossoms miraculously.

725
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:31,760
And he's the living Torah or the living tank commandments

726
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,199
not just written on stone. So that's what the ark is. Now.

727
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:40,639
The Book of Jeremiah prophesies in i think chapter two

728
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,639
or three that when the Messiah comes. This is interesting.

729
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,760
The arc won't be known or spoken of. So it's

730
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,119
supposed to be one of the signs that there's no

731
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:54,320
longer an arc of the Covenant in the Old Testament

732
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,920
sense of the box, the fulfillment's here, okay. And after

733
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:01,599
seventy a d. When the Temple was destroyed by Titus

734
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:07,360
Vespasian under the Roman Empire when they came and sacked Jerusalem.

735
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:10,760
This is forty years after Christ right. Jerusalem gets destroyed

736
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,159
in seventy eighty by the Roman Empire, nobody has known

737
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,599
about an arc. So that's one of the signs, according

738
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:21,000
to Jeremiah, that the Messianic Age is here, is that

739
00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:22,960
you don't have or you don't know about the arc. Now,

740
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,000
I mean, is it possible that someone could find the arc?

741
00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:29,800
It's possible. I mean you have people claiming to have

742
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,960
found that, you know, Ethiopian, the Telwahido Church claims that

743
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,000
they have it. My godfather's actually been there. He's been

744
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:46,519
to Ethiopium many times on different missions and whatnot. He

745
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:49,480
has an open mind about it, but he doesn't really

746
00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:53,440
think that that's It's very likely, and.

747
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: So is The Covenant is definitely a historical thing. It

748
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,559
definitely like existed.

749
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: Even if you're an atheist in the sense, like even

750
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,400
if you didn't believe any of the miraculous testimonies, Like

751
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,800
the Jews had an arc of the Covenant.

752
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,039
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, and then the ark of the Covenant

753
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:14,679
symbolically becomes Christ because Christ represents all of those different

754
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,880
factors within the Ark of the Covenant.

755
00:44:16,519 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 3: But in human form.

756
00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: So in a sense like Jesus actually sort of abrogates

757
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:25,239
that arc of the Covenant in a way, and it

758
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,400
become it becomes sort of obsolete orsar.

759
00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: It becomes fulfilled in Christ, in his mother in a us.

760
00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:37,760
So like a lot of the Orthodox Saints point out that,

761
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,039
like we're the living arcs now, because it's God's presence

762
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,440
amongst the It's there's a word for God called the Emmanuel, right,

763
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,639
God with us, and the true Emmanuel is the Son

764
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:54,719
of God literally among us in a body. Right, So

765
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,800
the arc was a a typological embodiment of God's presence

766
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,480
amongst the Israelites, and in the New Testament that's fulfilled

767
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:06,960
in the person of Christ taking on an actual human body,

768
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,119
which is a living arc.

769
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:09,679
Speaker 3: Okay, yep.

770
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: And so isn't there some sort of like a folklore

771
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:18,239
about the Knights Templar, their mission being to protect the

772
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,079
Ark of the Covenant and to store it around in

773
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,800
different places around the world, or to take it from Jerusalem.

774
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,679
Speaker 2: Moore. There could be I mean, I remember reading about

775
00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:32,159
the Templars maybe ten years ago. I read several books

776
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,519
on that back then, and there's a lot of legends

777
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:38,280
and stories and myths, and to be honest with you,

778
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,440
I'm not exactly sure what the true story of the

779
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:48,039
Templars is. The main line story is that they were

780
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:51,800
becoming too wealthy and too powerful, and the King of

781
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:57,800
France basically decided that they needed to be put to

782
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,239
an end, and so, together with the I think it

783
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,880
was one of the Frankish popes, they had a Council

784
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,119
of v enn I forget what year, it was, thirteen something,

785
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:11,199
but they alleged that the Templars had become a Satanic

786
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,719
sect and that they engaged in these sort of bizarre

787
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,039
rituals and kissed a button, worshiped the cat head as

788
00:46:18,119 --> 00:46:24,440
really weird stuff. But it's also possible that the King

789
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,880
of France wanted their wealth as well. So, I mean,

790
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,920
there's a lot of different possibilities here, and we don't

791
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,480
really know what was true and it was false, But

792
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:34,159
it does seem like they became a very powerful order.

793
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,960
They supposedly were like the inventors of a checking system,

794
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:42,519
like writing a check, so they presumably had a lot

795
00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:46,039
of wealth. But as to how deep they got into

796
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,719
esoteric philosophy, some people theorized that they were influenced by

797
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,639
cabalistic rabbis and they were reading cabalistic texts, and so

798
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,480
they were not really Christian anymore, but some kind of

799
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,840
something else. I guess all those things are possible, and

800
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:07,360
I think that legend is what contributed to later esoteric

801
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,280
groups like the Freemasons forging a link with the Templars.

802
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,639
Whether that's really there or not, who knows.

803
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: Do you think the Freemasons are just a gentleman's club

804
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,400
around the world, or do you think that the Free

805
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,239
Masons are actually some sort of a spiritual movement that

806
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,440
once you reach the upper echelons of that they have

807
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:27,079
some sort of like a like a religious practice or

808
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:28,239
esoteric practice.

809
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:33,599
Speaker 2: I think all the above. In fact, speculative Freemasonry, which

810
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
starts to spread in Europe in the fifteen hundreds and

811
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:40,480
the sixteen hundreds, gets solidified under the British Empire when

812
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,000
the Grand Lodge of London is created in the early

813
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:46,480
seventeen hundred, seventeen thirteen sixteen, I forget the exact year,

814
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:49,960
but at that time. And there's actually a great historical

815
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,039
non conspiracy book on this by Jessica Harland Jacobs. It's

816
00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:58,920
called Builders of Empire. She points out that in the

817
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:04,360
seventeen hundreds, in the eighteen hundreds, the Masonic lodge system

818
00:48:04,559 --> 00:48:10,000
is kind of the British Empire's espionage network. And if

819
00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:11,760
you want a movie that kind of hints at that,

820
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:14,679
there's actually a really good it's a Masonic movie, believe

821
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,360
or not. It's called The Man Who Would Be King

822
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,159
with Michael Caine and Sean Connery and they play to

823
00:48:20,679 --> 00:48:25,519
Masonic I guess you could call them spies, and they

824
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:30,039
try to go and dupe a bunch of Pagans and

825
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:33,599
the Himalayas into thinking that Sean Connery is the reincarnation

826
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:39,360
of Alexander the Great. So it's it's actually a pretty

827
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,639
good movie, but it has a Masonic philosophy to the movie,

828
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:45,480
and it presents them as these sort of you know,

829
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,320
spies or you know, operatives of the British Empire. So

830
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:53,159
I think that's what the that's what masonry was historically

831
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,360
when the British Empire had its apex of power. And

832
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,559
then I think that as it waned, Masonry continue to

833
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:02,559
exist as an institution with a lot of different spin

834
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:06,199
offs and fringe groups and splits and sex and you know,

835
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:11,760
in Europe, for example, you have very extreme versions of Masonry,

836
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,920
like Grand orient Lodge masonry that played a big role

837
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,800
in the French Revolution, and you know, rabid Jacobin atheist

838
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,519
type philosophy. So I think that, yeah, at a high

839
00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:33,039
level it's atheistic, but there's also fringe pathways that people

840
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:36,800
can take in terms of irregular lodges. Like if you

841
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,800
study the Alistair Crowley stuff, that's considered high level of

842
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,480
Masonic stuff, but it's not accepted Masonry. It's like graduate

843
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:50,639
level outside of the box masonry, if that makes sense.

844
00:49:51,519 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

845
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a friend on Facebook I used to

846
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:56,440
be like you used to know when I live in London.

847
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,079
He's just become a free Mason and he's always posting

848
00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:02,440
like Mason life, you know, like Mason traditions, and he's

849
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,480
posting these photos of him in his like.

850
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:07,599
Speaker 3: Like you know that outfit that they wear.

851
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, they look like it's like almost like the guys

852
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,280
who stand outside the Queen's the Queen's tower, now the

853
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,440
king they're what's it called again where they live in London,

854
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,719
bucking the Bucky and Palace. Those guys who stand outside

855
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,000
of Bucky and Palace. The Mason outfits almost look like

856
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:28,199
those dudes, right the King's gallot. But yeah, I mean,

857
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:30,400
so you don't think that the Freemasons really have that

858
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,679
much power anymore, or they're not this sort of like

859
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:34,760
like movers and shakers underground society.

860
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,639
Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of powerful, wealthy people

861
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,199
who are still involved in Freemasonry, but I don't think

862
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,159
that they have the power and the influence that they had,

863
00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:47,880
you know, one hundred hundred and fifty years ago. In fact,

864
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,719
I think the younger of the generations are the less

865
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,559
they're interested in that kind of stuff. So as I

866
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:57,840
understand that Masons are like not getting the recruits that

867
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,920
they used to get, but that doesn't mean that the

868
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:02,679
is not still you know, very high level, very powerful,

869
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,320
you know, thirty third degree Scottish Rite Freemasons out there.

870
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,679
I mean, the Duke of Kent, if he's still alive,

871
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,480
like he was one of the heads of Masonry along

872
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:18,000
with the Queen, So I mean they have power.

873
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,559
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I want to get up too Eastern religions soon,

874
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:24,559
but just quickly. One other thing that I've been curious

875
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:28,800
about recently is gnosticism, because you hear a fair few

876
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,599
people talking about Nassism as if it's some sort of

877
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:35,639
like a forbidden knowledge about Christianity, and that these people

878
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,840
actually had it right and they understand the spiritual components

879
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,239
of Christianity a lot better than the actual like Orthodox Christians.

880
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,519
So what exactly is gnosissism and like is where does

881
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:47,760
that tradition come from.

882
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:51,559
Speaker 2: That's a great segue to the far Eastern stuff, because

883
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:55,960
the earliest mentions that we have of what becomes known

884
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,639
as Gnoscissism is actually Paul's letter to Timothy. Well there's two,

885
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,679
but in the letter to Timothy, he mentions that he's

886
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,800
just beware of those who call themselves those who have

887
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,159
gnosis or knowledge. And there's a warning there because already

888
00:52:12,199 --> 00:52:15,639
at that time there was this I guess you could

889
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:20,880
say far Eastern mystic influenced idea that Christ was perhaps

890
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:27,840
a Brahmin or another you know, yogi or something like that. Already,

891
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,440
even in the days of the Apostles, there's another tradition.

892
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:34,119
I don't know how legitimate that is. It may just

893
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:39,360
be a tradition, but some of the Gnostic groups claimed

894
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,880
that Simon Magas. In the Book of Acts, you have

895
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,239
this character named Simon Megas who sees the Apostles preaching,

896
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,000
and that he sees them doing an exorcism, and Simon

897
00:52:50,039 --> 00:52:52,920
Megas comes up to Peter and says, how much for

898
00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:56,360
that power? I'll pay you for it? And Peter curses

899
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,760
Simon Magas and says, you, son of the devil, purchase

900
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:04,000
the gift of God. And that's where we get the

901
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:06,800
term simony. So for the rest of the history of

902
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,599
the church, the crime or the sin of simony is

903
00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:13,000
trying to buy a religious office. But it comes from

904
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,239
Simon Megas. And many early groups that claim to be

905
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,960
Gnostic trace their lineage or claim to have a trace

906
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:26,000
ilineage from Simon Vegas. The first real extensive history that

907
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:29,800
we have of Gnostics comes from Saint Aarnais, probably the

908
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,639
most famous theologian along with Tertullian of the second century.

909
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,760
He wrote a gigantic book called Against Heresies in one

910
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,159
point eighty and the first two or three hundred pages

911
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,159
of Against Heresies is literally just Arnaeus describing all the

912
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:48,280
Gnostic groups in his day. So within one hundred years

913
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,840
of the Apostles or so, you had just endless sects,

914
00:53:55,039 --> 00:53:59,599
mystery cults, gnostic groups, just dozens and dozens of them,

915
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:01,599
and he describes them at length and in detail all

916
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:05,719
their beliefs, and they're different leaders, and he mentions different

917
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,840
many different Gnostic groups. He mentions the Valentinians, the Basilidians,

918
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,800
the there's a bunch of them anyway. But long story short,

919
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:20,639
the commonalities that the Gnostics all have are basically, the

920
00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:24,440
God of the Old Testament is an evil, demonic being.

921
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,519
He's the false God, the Satan of what Christians called Satan.

922
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:35,039
The Gnostics call that Jehovah right. And so that evil

923
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:40,719
God is the source of the created world, physical matter, flesh,

924
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:45,679
and so the Gnostics then saw Jesus as this liberator

925
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:51,599
who comes to save mankind from physicality, time and space

926
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,800
and some return to pure spirit. And it varies from

927
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,280
that to all kinds of goddess type stuff. That Jesus

928
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:07,199
has a cohort or a consort named Sophia and just

929
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,760
really wild sort of mythologies that mix it with Egyptian philosophy,

930
00:55:13,159 --> 00:55:15,679
mixing it with Plato and Platonism at times.

931
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, so, do they believe that Jesus was man

932
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:23,480
or he was like ephemeral in some way.

933
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: All the above. So there would be groups who believe

934
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:28,719
that perhaps he did appear, but probably most of them,

935
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,199
because they tended to think that matter was evil, they

936
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,000
would believe in a form of what's called dakatism, which

937
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:38,360
is that Jesus didn't have a physical body. It appeared

938
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,000
to be a body, but it was just sort of

939
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:44,880
a ghost, so a phantasm. So probably most of them

940
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,280
believed that he was just a phantasm.

941
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:53,199
Speaker 1: Interesting, and you still get so obviously gnostic gnosis. They

942
00:55:53,199 --> 00:55:57,039
believed some sort of a like a knowledge that they've got.

943
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,000
But like you said that they believe that the Old

944
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,480
Testament God is like an evil, capricious God. But if

945
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,800
he's God, then what does that make Jesus because God

946
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:10,639
is obviously going to be so much more powerful than

947
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,400
just some sort of like a ghost being in Jesus.

948
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 3: I don't really understand how they well.

949
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 2: I think they would see Jesus as this sort of

950
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:23,400
liberating messenger to free people from the evil creator God.

951
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:26,119
And you could see how this could play into like

952
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,119
the matrix. Like these kinds of movies are influenced by

953
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:33,920
Gnostic thought because the message of Jesus then becomes one

954
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,159
where we're trapped in a hell world and the evil

955
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:41,159
God put us here, and Jesus comes to liberate us

956
00:56:41,199 --> 00:56:46,639
from this metaphysical dimension basically, and that might be done

957
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,679
through rituals with some of the groups, it might be

958
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:54,519
done through ascetic practices, never having sex, never drinking alcohol,

959
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,039
and never eating meat. I mean, there's all kinds of

960
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,079
you name it, there was some version of it. But typically, yes,

961
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:07,639
the key to salvation was secret knowledge that the Gnostic

962
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:12,880
group had. So in contrast to normal sort of Roman

963
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:19,360
Empire Byzantine Christianity, where salvation is repentance, baptism, participating in

964
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,000
the sacraments, living moral life, et cetera, salvation becomes joining

965
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:28,920
a kind of secret society with secret knowledge or nosis

966
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,880
that will help you escape this domain.

967
00:57:33,679 --> 00:57:38,159
Speaker 1: Interesting, all right, So in terms of the Eastern religions, I,

968
00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:40,480
like I said, I'm currently in Southeast Asia, and once

969
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:42,920
you sort of start to look into it, you really

970
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,199
can't unsee a lot of the this this idea that

971
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:49,559
these people are being constantly petrified by demons and trying

972
00:57:49,559 --> 00:57:53,639
to appease these gods. And recently I had this they

973
00:57:53,719 --> 00:57:56,679
had this silent day here, which means that everybody stays

974
00:57:56,679 --> 00:57:58,320
silent for a day, and what they do is they

975
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,840
build up these big effigies of demons, all these terrifying

976
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,519
looking demons, and then they parade them through the streets

977
00:58:04,519 --> 00:58:07,360
and then they end up burning them, and everybody goes

978
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,840
silent for a whole day in order to try and

979
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:14,199
cleanse the place of like dark spirits. But the one

980
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:16,559
thing that I obviously noticed with in terms of Christianity,

981
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:19,679
it's like we obviously like we contend with with demons

982
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,320
and all these sorts of things as well, but not

983
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,199
to the extent where they sort of like rule our

984
00:58:25,239 --> 00:58:27,559
lives and where we're so terrified by them and everything

985
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:30,840
we do is sort of this constant Do you know

986
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,519
what I'm saying? Like these people they tend to have

987
00:58:33,599 --> 00:58:35,400
like a grasp on them. Yeah, exactly right.

988
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:40,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, as you know, Athanasius, the famous Church fathers,

989
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:43,800
and Athenasius said that now that Christ has come, the

990
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:49,119
idols are destroyed and the demons are losing their grip

991
00:58:49,679 --> 00:58:52,360
and enslavement of humanity. So what he meant was that

992
00:58:52,719 --> 00:58:55,880
prior to Christ, you know, you really only had the

993
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:00,199
existence of prophets and truth amongst the Israelites. But now

994
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,639
the crisis come, that's been opened up to all the nations,

995
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:06,239
and so the grip that the devil and his minions

996
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,920
had on humanity throughout these different pagan nation states, as

997
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,960
you're talking about, that's being loosed and being destroyed through

998
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:17,719
the freedom that comes through the preaching of the Gospel.

999
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,840
So yeah, that's exactly what at least in the Old

1000
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,679
Testament and in the days of the Apostles, the idea

1001
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:27,360
of the Gospel is is that it really is this

1002
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,679
sort of spiritual confrontation between the forces of good, spiritual

1003
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:35,280
forces of good, including angelic beings Michael Gabriel, et cetera,

1004
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,320
and these real you know, beings or entities that have

1005
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:45,320
a hold on people through these deeply ingrained ancient superstitious traditions.

1006
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,719
And one of the things about superstition is that people

1007
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,679
that are in that mindset are enslaved to things that

1008
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,719
man was never meant to be enslaved to. So one

1009
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,000
of the things that's overlooked and idolatry people think about it.

1010
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,559
Dolatry is like I'm bowing to a statue and I'm

1011
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,920
you know, sacrificing an animal to the deity or whatever.

1012
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,360
I mean, that's all part of it, but it actually

1013
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,360
becomes an enslaving thing, like you're talking about. It's a

1014
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:19,159
spiritual enslavement to a delusion, to a falsehood that really

1015
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:22,800
doesn't allow those people or the civilizations to progress. They

1016
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,000
kind of get stuck. You know, think of India right

1017
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:29,880
where you've got starving people, but you've got cows walking around,

1018
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,159
but they won't eat it because of some bizarre cow

1019
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:37,199
god position that goes all the way back even to Exodus,

1020
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:40,760
where the Israelites start worshiping the cow god right when

1021
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,440
they when they fall after Moses frees them, and then

1022
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,159
they say, here's our god, it's a giant cow. Right.

1023
01:00:49,079 --> 01:00:52,119
I think that also speaks to what you see kind

1024
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:55,039
of a remnant of that tradition in India, and so

1025
01:00:55,039 --> 01:00:57,559
it's the same where you are. It's like they believe

1026
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:02,320
that there's this power that they have to placate to

1027
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,920
even survive and that's not what we were meant to be,

1028
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:09,519
as you know, made in the image of God. We're not,

1029
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:11,599
as Paul says in their Testament, that we were not

1030
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:17,159
meant to be enslaved to the worldly elements. And that's

1031
01:01:17,199 --> 01:01:20,039
precisely what happens in these kind of superstitious positions.

1032
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see a lot of that. I mean,

1033
01:01:24,199 --> 01:01:26,079
just the difference of when you go to a very

1034
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,000
Christian country and the way that they worship and the

1035
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,320
way that their churches look, and and the way that

1036
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,960
they speak about people and about God and about Jesus

1037
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,159
and all these sorts of things is so different to

1038
01:01:38,199 --> 01:01:41,400
the spiritual practices over here. But I'm telling you, Jay,

1039
01:01:41,519 --> 01:01:45,119
the white girls with their much a tea get just

1040
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,519
hooked in hook line and sinker to these places. They

1041
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:51,119
think that they have found the alternative. They think that

1042
01:01:51,199 --> 01:01:53,800
they have found this sort of higher moral of this

1043
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,360
higher sort of level of consciousness.

1044
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,119
Speaker 3: That's what they all say.

1045
01:01:57,199 --> 01:01:59,719
Speaker 1: I've just done a different level of consciousness. I'm elevating

1046
01:01:59,719 --> 01:02:02,800
my consciousness. But to me, it's just so apparent this

1047
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,159
is not a more moral system. This is actually like

1048
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,519
pretty demonic. And the practices in themselves, like even yoga

1049
01:02:11,559 --> 01:02:14,360
for example, a lot of the moves that they're doing

1050
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,800
are representing these sort of battles from the back of

1051
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,960
d Keta and these and these like Vedic traditions and everything.

1052
01:02:20,039 --> 01:02:22,840
So but they just don't see it that the white gills,

1053
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:23,800
they just fall for it.

1054
01:02:24,599 --> 01:02:31,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a long social engineering process of importing

1055
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,840
far Eastern philosophies into the West, and that was done

1056
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:38,599
by design, it was done on purpose. Tavistock played a

1057
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:41,679
key role in that. Promoting the Beatles in the West

1058
01:02:41,679 --> 01:02:43,440
played a key role in that because the Beatles were

1059
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:47,199
very much into transittal meditation, so they were going and

1060
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:50,639
doing these photo shoots and photo ops with Maharishi Mahi

1061
01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:55,000
Shiogi that pushed Hinduism in the West. The Rockefaller family

1062
01:02:55,079 --> 01:03:00,039
famously also was a big fan of Swami Vivikananda and

1063
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:02,199
they helped to push these kinds of ideas. And so

1064
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,599
you could never have the New Age movement in the

1065
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:11,280
West without these Western figures like Madam Blovatski who's the

1066
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,840
creator of theosophy, or Crowley in his sect. You know,

1067
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,400
people think of Crowley as like the Satanist magician guy,

1068
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,800
which is true, but Crowley was a huge devotee of

1069
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:25,639
yoga and together with Bolovatski, like they're the two champions

1070
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:27,840
of yoga being popular in the West. You have never

1071
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:32,639
had yoga without them, and arguably Swami Nificantnanda and rock

1072
01:03:32,719 --> 01:03:35,480
Filler support. So I believe that a lot of that

1073
01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:39,360
was by design to alter the fabric and the structure

1074
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,880
and belief systems of the West to make it more

1075
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:47,480
amenable to a future sort of globalized world citizens situation.

1076
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,480
And so you know, people who study these topics that

1077
01:03:52,519 --> 01:03:56,440
are malicious, they do ethnographies, right, the CIA sends people

1078
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,920
to do ethnographies, and they go to these countries and

1079
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,239
you study how they function, how the belief systems affect

1080
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,960
the people. It's called worldview warfare Belton Schunks Creek. And

1081
01:04:07,079 --> 01:04:11,000
you can use that knowledge, that research and use it elsewhere,

1082
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:16,559
right where it works, where it's applicable. And if an

1083
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:20,199
ideology like a Far Eastern philosophy, which for example, doesn't

1084
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:26,519
value individuality, particularity or the one or the many, it

1085
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:30,840
will always sort of favor the one or unity or

1086
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,639
the collective the whole. Now I'm not saying that the

1087
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:36,920
whole or the collective is necessarily bad, but philosophies that

1088
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,559
favor the just the big blob are very useful in

1089
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:45,360
fact alto sexually. Even says this in Perennial Philosophy, one

1090
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,840
of his books. He says that the whole reason that

1091
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,079
we would push far Eastern philosophy in the West is

1092
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:56,800
to create a malleable, controlled, collective mindset for the West

1093
01:04:57,159 --> 01:05:00,400
like people in the East have. So even have Huxley

1094
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,440
saying that that's the purpose of it, and that's yeah,

1095
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,119
of course it appeals to you know, white girls and

1096
01:05:06,239 --> 01:05:10,199
yoga pants who think that they're getting mystical insights, and

1097
01:05:10,599 --> 01:05:13,840
really none of it makes any sense. It's like, well,

1098
01:05:14,199 --> 01:05:17,800
the mystical insights of yoga are actually about you doing

1099
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,280
God forms, right, So you're actually putting yourself in a

1100
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,280
god form to invoke that spirit or entity, right. That

1101
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,480
being so, it's it's inherently polytheistic. I mean, I think,

1102
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,079
I think there's anything wrong with pilates, but yoga is

1103
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:35,880
intentionally a spiritual practice. So it just doesn't make any sense.

1104
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,760
Why would you even do that, right, what's the point

1105
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:42,239
of a spiritual practice that is bound up with the

1106
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,480
invocation over the evocation of some of these gods or entities.

1107
01:05:47,639 --> 01:05:48,039
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1108
01:05:48,159 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty creepy and all of these like breath

1109
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,480
work things that they do. Like last year, for example,

1110
01:05:54,519 --> 01:05:57,679
I had the most insane experience. It's hard to even explain,

1111
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:02,320
but I had a friend who came over right from Australia,

1112
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,039
where I'm from, and he's really into his breath work

1113
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:07,000
and everything, and he was like to me, man, you

1114
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:08,760
should go and do this breath work. It really helps

1115
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,079
me with my stress relief and all these sorts of things.

1116
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:13,559
And I was like, I don't want to be closed minded,

1117
01:06:13,599 --> 01:06:15,199
so I'll come along and I'll check out your breath

1118
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:17,559
work thing. Not something i'd normally get into. So he

1119
01:06:17,639 --> 01:06:19,800
went there and I got there and it was this

1120
01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:23,440
pyramid structure, right, They're all done in these pyramids, and

1121
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,920
I was like, okay, that's a bit creepy, but whatever.

1122
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,559
You went inside and you've got all these mats laid

1123
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:32,400
down right, and you go on the mats and then

1124
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,800
they start teaching you this breathing technique. I was kind

1125
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,880
of just ignoring it. And then this yogi dude, typical

1126
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:42,599
YOYI like in his forties, long hair, looks like a

1127
01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:47,079
character from Dragonball Z or something, and he starts teaching

1128
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:49,840
you this, and then you start doing the breathing techniques.

1129
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,960
They're playing this weird like Hindu sy trance music in

1130
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:57,719
the background, and then he starts saying, Oh, we need

1131
01:06:57,719 --> 01:06:59,960
to do some mantras, so we're going to say some mantra,

1132
01:07:00,199 --> 01:07:03,159
and he goes, first mantra is I love myself. I'm like,

1133
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,639
I'm obviously not going to say that's pride, so I

1134
01:07:07,639 --> 01:07:10,239
didn't say it. And then the next mantra that he goes,

1135
01:07:10,239 --> 01:07:12,079
he goes, all, right, now I want to welcome in

1136
01:07:12,119 --> 01:07:14,920
the feminine gods, welcome in the feminine spirits. And I

1137
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,360
was like, fuck, no, I'm not welcoming in any pounded spirits.

1138
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,519
I'm good, Yeah, totally checked out. At this stage. I

1139
01:07:21,519 --> 01:07:23,119
look over at my friend and he looks like he's

1140
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:24,719
sort of similar to me, not really getting into it

1141
01:07:24,719 --> 01:07:27,760
that much. I look away, and then thirty seconds later

1142
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,639
I look back at him and he is having a

1143
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,840
full on like seizure, his arms up like that, He's

1144
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,519
gone stiff as a board. And I looked at the dude,

1145
01:07:35,679 --> 01:07:37,639
the instructor, and I was like, do you want to

1146
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,119
come over here? And he tries to come over my

1147
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:42,400
friend and do some sort of like reiki. It doesn't work,

1148
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:44,360
so I just like pushed him away, put my friend

1149
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,760
in a recovery position and was holding him there for

1150
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:51,440
like like a good few minutes, just hitting pressure points

1151
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,840
and trying to like sort of keep him engaged. But

1152
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:55,960
he was I've seen people have seizures before, and I

1153
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,280
was like, oh, it looks like he's having a seizure.

1154
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:02,000
He's foaming from the mouth, he's going blue and anyways,

1155
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,679
but then out of nowhere, after a few minutes of this,

1156
01:08:05,159 --> 01:08:07,599
he looks up at me, like I snaps into attention,

1157
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,440
and he attacks me. Like, and I've seen how people

1158
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,599
have seizures before, right, And if you have a seizure,

1159
01:08:13,679 --> 01:08:16,199
your body is cooked after it, you can't move. People

1160
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:18,760
are bedridden for days after this. So he looks up

1161
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,319
at me and he attacks me, and we went five

1162
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,239
rounds in the middle of this pyramid, me and my friend.

1163
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,279
I'm bleeding everywhere, my shirt's all ripped. He has this

1164
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:31,359
retard strength, and eventually I managed to like subdue him,

1165
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,199
and a few other guys sort of like helped me

1166
01:08:33,239 --> 01:08:35,039
with his legs. I was terrified that he was going

1167
01:08:35,079 --> 01:08:38,800
to kill some little Asian lady, but yeah, fully attacked me,

1168
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:40,720
and then out of nowhere, he just snaps back to

1169
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,439
it and he looks up at me. He goes, Jake,

1170
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,319
we need to get out of here. And I was like, dude, like,

1171
01:08:46,079 --> 01:08:48,000
do you know what just happened? He had no memory

1172
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:48,159
of it.

1173
01:08:48,279 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 2: Heated through that whole thing.

1174
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,039
Speaker 1: He had no memory of it whatsoever, still has no

1175
01:08:53,119 --> 01:08:55,479
memory of it. But he fully attacked me like he

1176
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,680
wanted to kill me, making all of these demonic noises.

1177
01:08:58,159 --> 01:09:00,319
So after that, I was thinking, Okay, well, like it

1178
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:02,520
couldn't have been a seizure, because I know what happens

1179
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,000
when you have a seizure and you can't.

1180
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 3: Move after it.

1181
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: And I was like, what else could possibly explain that

1182
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:11,640
besides that they actually did welcome in the feminine feminine

1183
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,319
spirits and that there was some sort of possession happening there.

1184
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely so what it sounds like to me. I had

1185
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,439
a friend who went backpacking in his twenties to Europe

1186
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,680
and he took another friend with him. I wasn't there

1187
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,000
for this, but he told me the story, and they

1188
01:09:26,039 --> 01:09:30,920
decided at a hostel to do some shrooms, and the

1189
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,640
one guy who was kind of the main guy he

1190
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,119
had done it before, but his friend that he took

1191
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:40,279
had never done it. And when he as soon as

1192
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:42,960
he took shrooms, he like literally turned into a monster

1193
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:46,840
and tried to bite the other guy. They had to

1194
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,079
call the ambulance to come and give him a shot

1195
01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:50,680
of something to kind of wake him out of it.

1196
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,680
And yeah, he had completely dissociated. He had no idea

1197
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:55,680
what had happened. He didn't know he was trying to

1198
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,319
eat the other dude. So it's like, I mean, yeah,

1199
01:09:59,399 --> 01:10:02,560
like this, I've never seen that, but I did. I

1200
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,119
have seen a person one time that I genuinely believe

1201
01:10:05,199 --> 01:10:07,840
was possessed. It was somebody I know very well, and

1202
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,840
I mean, you know, things were being said that they

1203
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:15,359
don't remember saying, and it was wild. So that not all,

1204
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,279
it doesn't have a lot, But like probably you know

1205
01:10:18,359 --> 01:10:20,439
in places where you are, where you do have this

1206
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:26,359
sort of ancient, latent paganism still there, that's vibrant, I

1207
01:10:26,359 --> 01:10:30,920
would I would imagine it's probably more pronounced or more

1208
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,920
vivid in terms of manifestations in places like where you're

1209
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,439
talking about versus maybe the West. But I also think

1210
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,560
that like we're starting to see more and more people

1211
01:10:41,239 --> 01:10:44,560
you know in the West in America too, with the

1212
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,760
rise of people getting into witchcraft, Satanism, and the occult,

1213
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,640
I think we're seeing more and more people being possessed

1214
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:50,680
in the West as well.

1215
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that if there is some sort of

1216
01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:57,079
a door that's being opened up, then that's yeah for sure.

1217
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:59,720
But like, isn't it meant to be that people who

1218
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,840
have more holy like church fathers for examples, and priests

1219
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,119
and guys who have achieved sainthood have more interaction with

1220
01:11:07,239 --> 01:11:10,720
these spirits and I have more sort of like sensitive

1221
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,359
to these spirits. And actually there's stories of church fathers

1222
01:11:13,399 --> 01:11:15,960
who have had physical fights with these demons and spirits

1223
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:19,600
as opposed to people who are not. But like, I mean,

1224
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,600
I think that they're more vulnerable to being sort of

1225
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,399
influenced by them. But these church fathers have had like

1226
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:25,880
proper fights and spirits, right.

1227
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a long history of that kind

1228
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:32,840
of stuff in terms of prayer and fasting in the church.

1229
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:39,119
You know, I was just reading not too long ago,

1230
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:41,720
remember the name of that. I can't remember the name

1231
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,720
of the text, but it was like one of the

1232
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:50,000
more recent Orthodox bishops had written a famous treatise and

1233
01:11:50,079 --> 01:11:53,560
he was actually warning the people, you know, before you

1234
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:58,840
go intensely into fasting and these kinds of practices that

1235
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:04,640
you will experience, you know, persecution in a spiritual way.

1236
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:08,960
So yeah, I would say that's definitely, that's very well known,

1237
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,119
and that's that's absolutely part of the Orthodox tradition. There's

1238
01:12:12,159 --> 01:12:14,920
a long, you know, history of that kind of stuff.

1239
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,840
And I mean even in the Orthodox Church. You know,

1240
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:22,000
every baptism has a exorcism with it. Now that doesn't

1241
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,319
mean that they're going to manifest in a demonic way,

1242
01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:28,000
but you do the what's called the prayers of exorcism

1243
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,319
as part of the baptism right in the Orthodox Church.

1244
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,720
So it's a little bit different in the Orthodox Church

1245
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,520
versus the way that people think of it maybe in

1246
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,720
the Roman Catholic Church, where you have this this order

1247
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:42,520
of people called exorcists that doesn't really exist in the

1248
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,079
Orthodox Church, like any priest or even laity could conceivably

1249
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,800
exercise a person in that situation. In the Roman Catholic tradition,

1250
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,880
they have this, you know, the priest who is the

1251
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,319
exorcist like in the movie. You know, so it's a

1252
01:12:56,359 --> 01:12:59,680
little bit different in the West. But yeah, I think

1253
01:13:01,079 --> 01:13:03,720
I mean, I know I've not talked to him directly,

1254
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,279
but you've probably seen Father Deacon En and I as

1255
01:13:06,319 --> 01:13:09,840
on my channel. He's good friends with a pretty well

1256
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,319
known Orthodox exorcist, so that does exist.

1257
01:13:13,399 --> 01:13:15,560
Speaker 3: Yo, yeah, insane?

1258
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:20,039
Speaker 1: All right, Jay, Well, we'll end the audio version there

1259
01:13:20,079 --> 01:13:23,119
and then we'll get into some super chats. So a

1260
01:13:23,159 --> 01:13:27,960
couple of new channel members. We've got Travis Moulden, Trent Allen,

1261
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:30,159
and Brett Elway. If you guys want to get your

1262
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:31,560
super chats in now, it's going to be a great

1263
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,319
time to ask you a question if you'd like to.

1264
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,720
And if you guys are becoming channel members, we have

1265
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,920
got a bunch of exclusive content for members only on

1266
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:40,359
the channel.

1267
01:13:40,399 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 3: At the moment.

1268
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: We've got all of these live streams that eventually just

1269
01:13:44,039 --> 01:13:46,399
become not this one, but all of the other streams

1270
01:13:46,399 --> 01:13:49,760
that I do where I'm just doing debate reviews and

1271
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:51,920
that sort of stuff, they are going to be members only.

1272
01:13:52,039 --> 01:13:54,279
Speaker 3: So Cole Marshall for.

1273
01:13:54,279 --> 01:13:56,039
Speaker 1: Two bucks says thank you for talking with me and

1274
01:13:56,079 --> 01:13:58,319
DMS much love nowhere as Cole is an interesting chat.

1275
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,680
Jimmy min five bucks says, cheers, Jake, I caught Jay

1276
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:05,279
and Jimbob's discussion on Mormonism complete with animation.

1277
01:14:05,359 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 3: What was that?

1278
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 2: Jay? Well, I had had a few Mormons call in

1279
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,880
on recent open debate sessions, and Jim Bob had an

1280
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,319
idea to just do a deep dive on it, and

1281
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,439
we did about a four hour string the other day

1282
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,479
and it was a lot of fun. We had a

1283
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,880
good I think I think we pretty much completely showed

1284
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,159
the I mean, speaking of Gnosticism, I mean Mormonism is

1285
01:14:26,239 --> 01:14:29,920
very influenced by Gnoscissism, so a lot of weird stuff

1286
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:30,880
in that cult.

1287
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,319
Speaker 1: Joel Dalton for five bucks says, question for Jay, did

1288
01:14:35,319 --> 01:14:39,760
the Hebrews take some of their stories from the Babylonians

1289
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:40,680
while in captivity?

1290
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 2: This is a little nuanced question. I would say that

1291
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,720
in terms of the Bible, in the way that Christians

1292
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,920
view the Bible, we don't believe that what's in divine

1293
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:59,960
revelation in the Bible is Babylonian captivity stories but or pervert.

1294
01:15:01,119 --> 01:15:04,600
But in Jeremiah, Jeremiah says in his day in the

1295
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,960
Babylonian captivity that there were scribes who were already beginning

1296
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:14,840
to pervert the message and the truth. It doesn't say

1297
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,319
that the texts were altered just as they were perverting

1298
01:15:17,399 --> 01:15:19,760
the truth. The pen says, the pen of the scribe

1299
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:24,560
is lying. And so by the time of Christ you

1300
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:29,159
have the same rebuke of the Pharisees for these rabbinic

1301
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:33,399
traditions that were supplanting the word of God as Jesus

1302
01:15:33,399 --> 01:15:37,319
in Matthew twenty three, that's what develops into the Talmud

1303
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,880
in the fourth fifth, sixth century. That's the Babylonian Talmud,

1304
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,920
for example. So I would say that, yeah, there are

1305
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:49,039
traditions in Rabbinic Judaism that do perhaps derive from Babylonian captivity.

1306
01:15:49,399 --> 01:15:52,640
But for Orthodox Christians, when we cite the Book of

1307
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:57,159
Hebrews or Jeremiah or Isaiah, we don't believe that that

1308
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,880
is a Talmudic perversion.

1309
01:16:02,039 --> 01:16:02,640
Speaker 3: Gotcha.

1310
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,399
Speaker 1: And this is actually a good question here from Michael

1311
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,920
fits for two Canadian dollars, which I mean is probably

1312
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:15,840
five cents, Jay, how do you differentiate myth from history?

1313
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it depends ultimately on your basic presubpositions.

1314
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:24,319
I mean, if you believe in Vine revelation, if you're

1315
01:16:24,319 --> 01:16:27,640
an Orthodox Christian, that's your governing set of presubpositions. That

1316
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,600
will kind of dictate what you do and don't accept.

1317
01:16:31,159 --> 01:16:34,039
So if it's in divine revelation for us as Orthodox,

1318
01:16:34,079 --> 01:16:38,439
we would consider that normative and true. Anything outside of

1319
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,720
that is fair game. Who knows. But I also think

1320
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,760
that we do have God did give us reasoning faculties

1321
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:49,279
and you know, the ability to think things through and

1322
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:52,000
you know, to be able to suss out you know,

1323
01:16:52,079 --> 01:16:57,119
superstition from you know, real valid spiritual practice. So I

1324
01:16:57,119 --> 01:17:01,079
guess the case by case basis, but my governing presuppositions

1325
01:17:01,119 --> 01:17:02,920
are going to determine some of that.

1326
01:17:04,039 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 1: And also in a way like myth is a part

1327
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,479
of history as well, and we're not really as in

1328
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:14,039
touch these days with the way that ancients communicate, And yeah,

1329
01:17:14,279 --> 01:17:16,520
I think that they kind of did use myths to

1330
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:18,000
tell deeper truths in a way.

1331
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:19,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a good point.

1332
01:17:19,119 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1333
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 1: Radl Sneak TV gifted five memberships, so very generous from

1334
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,159
Radl Sneak TV. A new member in Mud. Good to

1335
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:31,159
see you becoming a member. Mud got the last question here, guys,

1336
01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:34,199
last chance if you wanted to ask anything, this is

1337
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:37,600
going to be the last one otherwise, So Mud for

1338
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:39,640
ten buck says, can we get a quick prayer for

1339
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,520
jim Bob, not because he's traveling, but because he will

1340
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,880
most likely be exposed for having shoulders narrow than most

1341
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:52,199
of the girls on the Weever podcast on Sunday. So

1342
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,279
prayers going, prayers going out to Gah.

1343
01:17:54,319 --> 01:17:56,600
Speaker 2: We'll pray for Jimbob's shoulders. Maybe we can get him

1344
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,960
in some shoulder pads or like a yeah, in nineties

1345
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:02,560
double breasted sport code or something.

1346
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,039
Speaker 1: I didn't actually know that Jimbob was going going on whatever,

1347
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:09,439
but that'll be He's My prediction for that is that

1348
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,000
Jimbob just going to lose his temper. I'm telling you,

1349
01:18:12,279 --> 01:18:15,920
from the outside, it looks like it looks like, you know,

1350
01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:19,640
just a regular conversation, but it's infuriating when you're in

1351
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:23,079
there and you're having these conversations with brick walls, and

1352
01:18:23,119 --> 01:18:25,680
when you're having these people who just constantly gaslight you,

1353
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,000
and then what you don't see on camera is that

1354
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:31,279
like oftentimes they're rolling their eyes and slouching and putting

1355
01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:33,359
their face on the microphone like that when they're not

1356
01:18:33,399 --> 01:18:36,079
getting attention is absolutely infuriating.

1357
01:18:36,199 --> 01:18:40,039
Speaker 2: So well, I enjoyed you and Jimbob debating not so

1358
01:18:40,199 --> 01:18:44,279
erudite and that feminist veteran guy. That was a hilarious debate.

1359
01:18:44,319 --> 01:18:45,479
I had a lot of fun. Why how watch the

1360
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,920
whole thing. It was a blast. I'm trying to get

1361
01:18:49,039 --> 01:18:51,840
not so aerudite to do a debate with me. She

1362
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,399
said that she would set it up on whatever as well,

1363
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,600
so maybe I can have the same experience. We'll see.

1364
01:19:00,199 --> 01:19:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll say about that because she pulled out

1365
01:19:03,279 --> 01:19:06,119
from my debate the other day. Well meant duo one

1366
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:08,119
on one, and I'm pissed off about it.

1367
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,520
Speaker 2: Well, she did the same thing original Originally, I said,

1368
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:12,199
why don't you come on my channel, let's have the

1369
01:19:12,239 --> 01:19:14,680
same debate that you had with Jake and Jimbob, And

1370
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:16,399
she said, yeah, I'll do that, and then she said, no,

1371
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:21,079
I can't. Let's do it on whatever. Okay, sure, whatever.

1372
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And last one here from Michael fits for two

1373
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,000
bucks another five cents.

1374
01:19:27,119 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 3: You didn't mention science. What is science?

1375
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: You know?

1376
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 3: What is science? Jay?

1377
01:19:33,359 --> 01:19:38,520
Speaker 2: Science is perhaps well the word science means knowledge, I

1378
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:43,960
mean to know something, but ciantia. But the scientific method

1379
01:19:44,079 --> 01:19:47,760
is a tool for studying the natural world, which I

1380
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,760
definitely believe in. But I also think it has limitations,

1381
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:54,560
so you know, it can't. It can't tell you the why,

1382
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:56,800
but it can tell you the how in some cases.

1383
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: Right Tech twenty three to five bucks is here? Hey,

1384
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,199
j what is the deal with Mormons and Sasquatch? How

1385
01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:07,920
is it related to Gideon and Canaanites?

1386
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 2: So I didn't know this, but apparently one of the

1387
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,680
Mormon prophets they believe that they have kind of an

1388
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,880
ongoing succession of living apostle prophets that run the church.

1389
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:23,159
One of the more recent ones, some decades ago, believed

1390
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:30,479
and posited that Sasquatch is Caine from the Book of Genesis.

1391
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,560
How that relates to Gideon, I'm not sure, but Canaanites,

1392
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:40,079
I guess relate to Cain. And so apparently their bigfoot

1393
01:20:40,119 --> 01:20:41,439
is part of Mormon theology.

1394
01:20:43,119 --> 01:20:45,119
Speaker 1: Well, you just never know what the Mormons are going

1395
01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:50,359
to bring out. Really, that's fascinating, Yeah, Sasquatch?

1396
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:52,560
Speaker 3: All right? Well, Jay, thank you.

1397
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time, man, And if anybody is

1398
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,159
watching it and wants to go and absolutely get lost

1399
01:20:57,199 --> 01:21:00,760
in a wormhole, then Jay's channel is the place to go.

1400
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,600
So thanks again for the jumping on with me, man,

1401
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:06,720
and I'll see you very soon. Once when when's your

1402
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:08,640
when's your like seft release of people coming out?

1403
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,399
Speaker 2: It looks it's looking like it's quicker than we thought,

1404
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,319
you know, the publisher said July to September. But he's

1405
01:21:15,359 --> 01:21:19,920
already further on in the second draft, so I would

1406
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:21,920
I would venture to say maybe even a month or two.

1407
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,199
Speaker 1: All right, dude, Well, as soon as it's got like

1408
01:21:25,239 --> 01:21:26,920
a pre order or whatever, then we'll jump back on

1409
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:28,680
and we'll talk all that esoteriy Hollywood.

1410
01:21:29,079 --> 01:21:31,079
Speaker 2: Definitely. Man, thanks for having me. It was a good chat,

1411
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:31,760
all right.

1412
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:33,359
Speaker 3: See a load of you guys, have a good day.