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essentials like booking the table with the best view of

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on for the game, and of course sending an extra

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reminder to that one friend who's known to be a.

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Speaker 2: Bit well flaky. You know the type, and if you don't,

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it's probably you.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're enjoying a point of Guinness or not, everyone

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is invited to be part of the action.

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Speaker 2: So to all the pint playmakers.

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Speaker 1: It's time Raley the squad, pike the pub and get

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ready for the Guinness six Nations. Drink responsibly. I visit

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Speaker 3: Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

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It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

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You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even

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going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

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And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?

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You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising

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l I B s y n ads dot com today.

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Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping

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his wing, dig down in on the forest.

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Speaker 2: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away. Man, nobody see it, nobody else. You don't

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need no man, you don't luck.

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Speaker 1: You follow the let story and you got acted fact

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that man don't.

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Speaker 2: Black a dang on the panel. Man.

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Speaker 4: Man. All right, Andrew Edwards, welcome back to the Jay Burdenshawe.

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Speaker 5: Do it man.

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Speaker 2: I'm great good to be back with you. So yeah, man.

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Speaker 4: We are continuing our film review series, so we're reviewing

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the I guess you would say supernatural, neo noir, erotic

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thriller Angel Heart for a little bit of context. Is

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a movie you love? But I got this recommendation off

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of someone's post to Twitter. I don't remember who but

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I had kind of an empty afternoon for some recordings,

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and so I saw this and I was like, you

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know what, I'll watch that. Maybe it'd make a good episode.

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I had quite literally no expectations for this film whatsoever.

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Saw someone post about it, never heard of it. Thirty

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seconds later I've started the film, and let me tell you, man,

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I don't know what my expectations were. They certainly weren't this.

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I felt my brain break in half in the film. Truly,

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truly excellent. It is in my sort of favorite sub genre,

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which is films about the American Deep South, which are

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deeply terrifying and yet still true to the source material.

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So if you love that aspect of True Detective, there's

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a lot of angel Heart in True Detective, you'll definitely

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pick up on some certain things. The acting is great.

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It's shot much better than it has any right to be.

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You know. Obviously a large part of it is heavily

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influenced by No War, but once the supernatural elements start appearing,

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it goes absolutely nuts. The acting is great, honestly, that's

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the soundtracks not half bad either. But yeah, man, I

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loved this film. I had absolutely nothing really in my

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mind when I started it. But I'm curious, before we

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get into the actual movie itself, what's your background within ort.

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Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned earlier, I remember in whenever it

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was nineteen eighty seven or eighty six, my dad returning

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from the movie theater having seen it and him, you know,

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I could tell by the expression on his face that

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he was blown away. My dad was a huge movie guy,

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and he had excellent taste. And so at the first

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opportunity I went and watched it, and that shit that

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must have been I guess in the nineties early nineties,

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and I mean I my relationship with it. Having just

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viewed it again for our chat today, I have to

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say it's one of my all time favorite movies. And

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from a with a little bit of detachment, now, I

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gotta say it's just phenomenal. I mean, it's like you said,

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it's got a pretty decent soundtrack, the acting is outstanding,

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the writing is spectacularler the the switch that they do

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from New York to New Orleans. I likewise, I mean,

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this is one of my favorite little subgenres. Then you add,

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you know this noir element that from from the forties

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fifties era, and I mean I think I'm a little

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biased because I saw it so early and I have

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some emotional attachment to it. But I was looking at

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as as I went through it again, some of the

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as you as like, why is this shot so well?

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You know, Alan Parker, I think is the director. He's

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not exactly a household name, but you know, there are

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some incredible, really powerful, just visual shots that are their masterpiece,

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like painting level stuff. I'm thinking of, Well, we can

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get into it, but just speaking generally that that's where

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I'm coming at it from. I mean, I love virtually

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everything about it, from the supernatural element, the noir element,

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the time period, the way it's shot. And we should

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mention this is our second review of a of a

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Mickey Rourke film, unintentional entirely, and I think that this

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is by far and away the high point for Mickey

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Rourke's career. He's not the Mickey Rourke that you're familiar

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with in like Harley Davidson and the Marlborough Man or whatever.

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I mean, this is this is a guy who is

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not only hanging with and you know, I don't personally

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like any of these people. I mean, I'm disgusted at

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this point with all of Hollywood, and all of that

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goes without saying, but de Niro is a is a

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bit of a ham in this role, but it's perfect

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for the film, it says if all of these elements

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gel together in such a way where I still placed

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this probably in my all time top ten.

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Speaker 4: Well, and it was especially bizarre to me to see

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Nicky Rourke in an effective dramatic role because I'm realizing

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that he is primarily notable in my childhood for starring

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in the low budget two thousand and nine video game

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Rogue Warrior, where it's basically just and I think it's

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actually one of those like Vietnam books, you know, where

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this guy just like kind of dramaticized his life and

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career in the Cold War that was turned into a

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video game.

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Speaker 2: Sort of.

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Speaker 4: The audio work was done by a very very drunk

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Mickey Rourke. And so it was incredibly bizarre because that is,

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you know, just because of when I grew up my

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picture of him, and so to see him in a

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role where he's acting very very well in a dramatic,

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complicated film was sort of baffling to me. So you've

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seen the movie more recently than I have, so I'll

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lean on you partially right for the plot, but effectively

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the film starts with our main character, right, private investigator

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Harry Angel, who has been tracked down by a man

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named Lewis Cipher to follow this, this sort of lounde

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singer crooner known as Johnny Favorite. According to Cipher, Favorite

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suffered neurological trauma allegedly and owes Cipher money. Right, he

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owes him a debt. This this singer has been allegedly

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in a New York mental hospital for decades, and effectively

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he wants Angel to go in and check, basically like,

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is this actually true? I've heard rumors that he flew

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the coop. So de Niro's portrayal of this guy Cipher

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is incredibly over the top and creep right. He's sort

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of this kind of obvious occultist character. You know, he's

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dressed in kind of one might say kind of a

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I won't say asexual, but sort of bizarre and perverse.

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He's got very long groomed fingernails. And they're meeting in

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I guess this is what we would say like a

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charismatic black church in Harlem. Right, is that how you

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describe the situation exactly. Yeah, and go ahead, No, no,

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finish that thought, Eddie.

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Speaker 2: No, it's it's kind of revealed in a few steps

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that maybe this charismatic black church in Harlem, well, I

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mean we can say it here. Our main our detective,

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you know, are our main character in gooing the you know,

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finding all of these little folds within the mystery that

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he's forced into. He's pretty quickly uh educated to the

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fact that this black church is not like, exactly Christian,

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And of course, as the movie goes on, this voodoo

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element is brought to the forefront. But I find it's

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I think, if you're coming at this with like like

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I did when I first thought as a kid, basically

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this might strike you as very odd. But in fact

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my understanding, I'm no expert, but voodoo does actually have

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it's kind of a syncretic thing where it's pulling laments

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from other religions and in this case Christianity. So yeah,

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he finds himself with this in this spectacular kind of setting,

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and with with Windsap, the lawyer who's been contracted by

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our de nero character and I forget that guy's name

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as an actor who plays wine Sap. He goes on

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and he's like a pretty recognizable character actor, but he

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is extremely creepy the way he the way he handles himself,

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and it just sets this tone right out of the

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gate that we're not dealing with, you know, like normal

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kind of genteel society. Something else has happened. So pretty

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early in the movie, it's revealed that there's this this

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voodoo element. But I didn't need to go off that long, please.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I might have the the specifics on this

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slightly wrong, but doesn't he walk through a crime scene

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on his on his sort of journey to meet him,

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Like there is a allegedly what we're seeing is sort

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of a funeral and this is or a memorial service,

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and this is the weird thing. It's sort of surreal

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because allegedly one of the prishioner's husbands has has shot himself.

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And as he's sort of walking up this sort of

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atrium and that the church is in the bottom, he

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walks past and looks in and he sees, you know,

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this body, brain's blown out, and there's a dark figure

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wrapped in black cloth next to the body. Something we

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will see as a repeated motif. I'm glad you brought

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up the voodoo element, because that's that's throughout the entire film,

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obviously as we go into you know, as we go

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into New Orleans. But I think it's particularly interesting that

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the symbology in this is very dark. So you see

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a lot of traditional voodoo symbols this will come up

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later again as well, but also a lot of that

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is mixed with Christian symbology, right, Like you'll see a

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cross with a bunch of different nails nailed onto it, right, which,

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if you know anything about voodoo, is a particularly potent symbol.

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It honestly reminded me the way you described it of

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you know, what you see in Central and South America

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with these kind of narco cults, right, mixing elements of

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you know, native religion sort of like Oruba and other

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things from the Caribbean and from Africa, and also you know,

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Catholicism kind of all at once. And the film is

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not a pine on that, but it is an interesting detail.

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Speaker 2: Nonetheless, I agree, it's super interesting. And I'm glad you

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mentioned motifs because one thing this movie does so well,

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and again watching it, I remembered these images. There's a

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couple of things and one of them is this ascending

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and descending stairs or ladders or elevators going up, going down.

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And then there's this weird crone woman figure who's only

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revealed at the very very end of the film, but

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she's it's odd, right, you can't help but realize as

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the viewer, like this is extraordinary. This is, you know, supernatural.

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There's something bizarre happening with this cloaked kind of thin

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and as well, you know in I'm no expert again,

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but in the cartel kind of you know, Santaia death

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magic thing they do. I believe that they call her

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the Skinny One or something like that, which is this

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movie was made like what thirty five years ago, something

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like that forty years ago, and it's it's interesting that

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this woman, this figure very she's very thin and super creepy.

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But back to the motif idea. The fan is another

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one where it's not it's not again, it's it's like

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really close to over the top, but it's just about

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pitch perfect in my opinion, where you have the classic

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black and white where your light is penetrating shadow or

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shadow is overlaid onto light, and Alan Parker does this

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repeatedly with this fan. I'm not entirely sure what the

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deep symbolism of the electric fan is, but it's it's

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constantly there and it does its job of imparting at

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at like, yeah, the visual level that one this is

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we're in Noirville and it's it's amazing. But uh, this

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this he the character of you know, Rourke's character, Harold Angel.

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At the end of the film, there's a sense, tell

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me if I'm wrong here, and then maybe we can

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jump back to the kind of linear aspect of the plot.

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There's a sense that he's fractured, you know, and time

237
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is not playing quite the right way. He's having something

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like and there's this talk about shell shock being an element,

239
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which is what they called like PTSD back in the

240
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,000
forties and fifties. One of these and these images start

241
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to roll out real early, and one of them is

242
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the fan, and one of them is the elevator. There's

243
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like that classic metal graded old school elevator that's closing

244
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and then it's descending. And in viewing the movie again,

245
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I realized how subtle this is. That and I don't

246
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want to give out the spoilers too early, of course,

247
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but the whole film is that's that's where I'm I'm

248
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looking at it and like, dude, this is a this

249
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is a masterpiece. It's so subtle, and so while the

250
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,039
visuals are sometimes over the top and some of the

251
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acting is a little hammy, in terms of an object

252
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of art like a construction, this is an overlooked masterpiece

253
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even at that level, because it never hit me until

254
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this viewing how that internal, fractured narrative aspect of Harry

255
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,400
Angel is playing out from the beginning all the way

256
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,039
to the end and it's totally coherent. It might does

257
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that make sense?

258
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Speaker 4: You see that as well? With the local right that

259
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:05,000
you have this incredible like just even the way the

260
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film looks from you know, New York, which is shot

261
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very much like a traditional noir, Like in the opening,

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you know shots he's walking through these kind of like horrible, ashy,

263
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gray alley ways with stray animals walking around. You know,

264
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it's all very gray and urban. And then the second

265
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half of the film, which is in New Orleans, this

266
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is just kind of like riot of you know color.

267
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There's a you know, he stays in this kind of

268
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like low rent hotel and you know it's it's like

269
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he's in the jungle, right, it's it's there's water coming

270
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down everywhere, you know, even the and this is an

271
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interesting kind of parallel right going through uh, going through

272
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Harlem multiple times, he sees these sort of religious parades

273
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going through and then those are contrasted with the kind

274
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of like New Orleans like street music, and it's like, okay,

275
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there's a there's an act there, but there's a dramatic

276
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difference in character, even down to the way it's it's

277
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,480
shot that the color palette goes from being almost monochromatic

278
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to this kind of riot of you know, greens and

279
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Mardi Gras colors. And again it's this kind of like

280
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almost like schizophrenia, these kind of two different personalities, which

281
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is very close to the reveal of the film. We

282
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will not get into that, you know, at least for

283
00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:29,160
a few more minutes. Yeah, it's it's incredibly well done.

284
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So carrying forward, Harry takes the deal. You know, he's

285
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offered a lot of money. So he goes to he

286
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:45,039
goes to this, Uh, he goes to this mental hospital

287
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where this you know, this this singer is allegedly receiving

288
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treatment for shell shock. We get some interesting characterization where

289
00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:55,559
he tries to sort of sweet talk the lady at

290
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:58,160
the front where he's just around the corner, and we

291
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see him flipping through different FAI guides and then he

292
00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:03,839
comes through as the he's the health inspector.

293
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Speaker 5: You know.

294
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Speaker 4: He says, Oh, I need to see this, you know.

295
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640
She says, oh, you know this was signed out or

296
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,279
this was you know, this person was signed out of

297
00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:18,680
the hospital by this this doctor uh uh foul Albert Fowler. Yeah,

298
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,240
And so our main character basically says, like, all right,

299
00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:25,279
I've got to go find this guy. So he tracks

300
00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:29,640
down Albert Fowler, who lives in just like an absolute shithole,

301
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,559
Like it's this horrible rundown building. And as he's sort

302
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:37,240
of snooping around, he goes through his refrigerator and it's

303
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:40,240
just full of morphine. Right, that this guy is, you know,

304
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,119
a morphine addict. Harry confronts him. It's sort of this

305
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:48,200
interesting classic you know, NEWIR moment where he waits for

306
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,480
him to come home, and you know, he's illuminated by

307
00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:53,680
the flash of a cigarette lighter, right, this kind of

308
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,160
classic New AR shot.

309
00:20:55,559 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly it. And he establishes in that scene

310
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,200
like he's kind of a tough guy, and he's super experienced,

311
00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:07,200
even though you know, we're not really told maybe why,

312
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:10,519
like you know, with a lot of times you have

313
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:14,319
the former cop backstory, like I learned about the CD

314
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:17,440
underside of things from from being a cop or whatever.

315
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,759
We don't really know that. But Rourke Rourke, forgive me

316
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:26,640
if I digress a bit, but I think this is

317
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,640
one of my favorite aspects of this film. So on

318
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:36,759
the one hand, he he's he's experienced with the underside

319
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:39,160
of the world. He can handle all of the kind

320
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:46,720
of mental convolusions of the junkie and apply physical pressure

321
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,839
and maybe even beat him up a little bit if

322
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,000
need be, And this plays out throughout most of the film.

323
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,680
But there's also this tender side of of the auror

324
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:04,559
of the Rourke character where he he doesn't like chickens.

325
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,960
That's kind of a thing that I think it's sort

326
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,680
of funny throughout the film, But there are little moments

327
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,759
where he's around kids and he will pass his finger,

328
00:22:13,839 --> 00:22:16,599
you know, not in a creepy way, but like in

329
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,440
a genuinely gentle way. And maybe this is less about

330
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,799
the characterization of our hero and more about Alan Parker

331
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,519
or something like that, but I didn't notice this the

332
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:31,640
first time through. And there are a couple moments like that.

333
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,680
Even with the doctor as he's roughing him up, he's

334
00:22:35,759 --> 00:22:40,079
kind of gentle in some ways. It's as if he

335
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:45,720
has this very intimate understanding of I don't know, degenerative

336
00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:50,640
sort of states or what, but it plays out. Did

337
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,400
you pick up on that at all? This kind of

338
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:59,680
I guess, just a duality in this character where he's

339
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,960
he's in this incredibly nasty world, but there's something tender

340
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,680
happening as well, there's something unbroken, and I'll throw it

341
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,400
back to you because I have some ideas in this,

342
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,039
but I want to hear if you noticed it.

343
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 4: Well, well definitely, And we see that he actually doesn't

344
00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:22,359
want to cause this guy any issues because what happens

345
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,880
is basically like he sees the guys in bad shape

346
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,400
and he's like, you know what, all right, fine, I'll

347
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,319
give you some time to to think, to collect your thoughts.

348
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,960
I'll come back later then why have a conversation and

349
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,240
I'll leave no problems. And it's even interesting that like

350
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:40,400
his threat isn't like I'm going to break your knees.

351
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,079
He's just like, look, I I might have to tell

352
00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:46,079
the police that you're, you know, a morphine addict, which, sure,

353
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,240
that's a threat, but it's not like he's got you know,

354
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:51,880
he's going to throw him down an elevator shaft or something.

355
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:52,599
Speaker 5: You know.

356
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:56,079
Speaker 4: It's like we he's not exactly what we would call

357
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,200
like a a you know, hyper moral character, but he's

358
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:03,839
not some thug. You know, he's been paid to do

359
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,400
a job. Uh So I'm curious before we get to

360
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,119
the resolution of this scene, because it's a it's a

361
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:13,359
repeated one throughout the film, what your what your thoughts

362
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,559
on this initially.

363
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,079
Speaker 2: Are which aspect this?

364
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 4: Oh, you were just saying that you were something you

365
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,880
wanted to say about that kind of duality in his tenderness.

366
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: So I maybe this, if you know, guys want to

367
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,599
go check out this movie, maybe this will help speed

368
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,839
them along, because as I've said, I watched it many

369
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,799
times over decades now, and it was only now that

370
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,960
I notice well, and maybe I'll try and pick up

371
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,440
on a little bit of the plot to move us

372
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:49,119
forward a bit. But as our character is progressing, which

373
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,160
is all you know, he's going kind of deeper and

374
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,920
deeper and deeper into whether it's his own madness, or

375
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,440
it's the the darkness of of the job that's been

376
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,880
given to him, like as the detective, unraveling you know,

377
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,519
the parts of this plot and figuring out what happened

378
00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:22,200
to this this mysterious musician, Uh Johnny favorite as this happens, Uh,

379
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,680
I'm losing my I'm losing my train of thought. But uh,

380
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,920
what I noticed this time is that the plot is

381
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,400
getting darker and it's obvious to the viewer, but at

382
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,799
the same time, Parker is juxtaposing images of salvation throughout

383
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:46,519
and I this is the aspect I didn't notice as

384
00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:50,240
a kid. There are over and over and over and over,

385
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:56,519
whether it's literally like emblazoned on a church, you know,

386
00:25:56,559 --> 00:25:56,920
the world.

387
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,839
Speaker 4: That's actually exactly what I was going to bring up. Yeah, okay, okay.

388
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,759
Speaker 2: I really feel like this is maybe part of why

389
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:05,920
this movie is so damn good, because we've hit a

390
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,319
lot of the parts. They're just regular kind of we

391
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240
expect them to be in this type of newer film.

392
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,920
But I wonder now if what Parker's genius or maybe

393
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,000
the author of the novel on which this is based

394
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,319
gets almost no credit. By the way, you know, no

395
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:24,400
one knows who he is. I read the book much

396
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,400
much later in life. It's his name is like Horsberg

397
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:32,359
or something like that. Apparently he died twenty sixteen or

398
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,039
so in Livingston, Montana, and I didn't hear about that.

399
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,680
You know, I hope he did well, because this was

400
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,000
the book was really pretty darn good too. Maybe not

401
00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:46,680
as good as the movie, maybe, who knows. But back

402
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:53,680
to the point, what Parker has done is sort of

403
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,440
add this tension visually and maybe at the subliminal sort

404
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:03,359
of levels where it seems now that while our character

405
00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:05,759
is on a track to hell. I mean, that's just

406
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,440
what it is. He's on a excuse me night train

407
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:15,119
to hell. These images of salvation through the church and

408
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,240
through little figurines that show up, whether it's the Sacred

409
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,519
Heart or the Cross here and there, He's being offered

410
00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:28,039
salvation at every step of the way. And it creates

411
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:33,000
this bizarre tension because you know, as the viewer, there's

412
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,480
nothing about our guy Mickey Rourke, Harold Angel who's even

413
00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:42,400
thinking on these terms. He's just missing every opportunity, so

414
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,880
it doesn't even feel like an opportunity, which is kind

415
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,200
of a strange. You know, from my point of view

416
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,480
as somebody who believes in these things now in salvation

417
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,519
in Christianity. The film presents almost like an inevitability of things,

418
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,799
which which is maybe to the movie's credit and maybe

419
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:04,880
why it's so creepy. I'll throw it back to you.

420
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 4: Well, and this, this is actually really the first extremely

421
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:14,200
explicit moment of this. After he has you know, left,

422
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,359
the doctor said, hey, you need some time to clean up.

423
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,759
We see him walking, you know, walking through this kind

424
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:24,440
of like horrible snowy street and there's a church, like

425
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,839
an old Rundown church that says salvation on it, and

426
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:34,680
he hears a sort of ghostly voice yelling Harry, Johnny, Harry,

427
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,400
like over and over again. So he looks in the church.

428
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,559
He doesn't walk in, he's just standing in the doorway

429
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,519
and there are two nuns there. They look up at him,

430
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,279
and when he looks in, he sees this kind of

431
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:52,279
recurring motif of the kind of rickety old elevator opening

432
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:56,519
its doors. Yeah, and he turns around and leaves. So, yeah,

433
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,960
literally he is being offered salvation and he refuses right,

434
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:06,200
going back to another recurring motif. When he returns to

435
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:12,000
speak with the doctor, he's been killed, shot through the eye.

436
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,960
We see Harry really quickly understand what's going on. He

437
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,279
goes around wiping up all of the places where his

438
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:22,519
fingerprints have been left the scene. Obviously that would be

439
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,839
very suspicious. You know, he's the last person to have

440
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,960
seen him. They got into a physical altercation. So he

441
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,640
returns back to Cipher. I needed a diner, he says.

442
00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:35,720
You know, here's what I've found out. You know that

443
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:39,839
this this doctor, you know, falsified the records. He hasn't

444
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,200
been that this singer hasn't been there in ten years.

445
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,920
But I'm done. You know, there's already a body connected

446
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,119
to this. I don't want to be involved. It's quite

447
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,400
simply not something I want to be want to be,

448
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:58,200
you know, continually involved with. And Cipher basically drops five

449
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,799
grand he says, which you know at the time was

450
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:03,680
quite a lot of money, and says, look like you're

451
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,119
going to see this through. So again he is not

452
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,160
only he rejected salvation, but he has accepted the deal.

453
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: Right.

454
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,559
Speaker 4: This is very much a Faustian story quite literally, although

455
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:22,240
you're getting it told in a way that I won't spoil,

456
00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:25,160
but the order of it's a little different than what

457
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,519
you may be expecting. And so he continues on with

458
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:38,759
the investigation the next I guess chapter of this so

459
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:43,519
we find out that favorite had a wealthy fiance named

460
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,839
Margaret Cruz Mark that's her name, right, who's sort of

461
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,640
this the southern heiress who's interested in the occult based

462
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,720
out of Louisiana, and allegedly also had a secret love

463
00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:01,799
affair with a woman named Evangeline Proud Fuh. So this

464
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,599
is where we begin the transition to New Orleans.

465
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:05,359
Speaker 6: Uh.

466
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,039
Speaker 4: The last parts of this investigation in New York involve

467
00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:13,920
him finding the band members of this this old.

468
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: Kind of you know, krooner act.

469
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:15,799
Speaker 5: Uh.

470
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 4: There's a very funny Again, this scene does not have

471
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,079
to be as funny scene shot on the beach in

472
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,839
New York in like the middle of March or something.

473
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,920
Gets miserable and you know, it's this old like a

474
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000
kind of fat guy sitting on the beach with like

475
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:34,079
this very weird like I guess you would say, like

476
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,200
sunbathing equipment. It's this sort of like nose shield. It's

477
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,160
it's a pretty bizarre scene, very funny. One of the

478
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,359
probably the best gags in this is you know he he,

479
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,039
you know walks out on the empty, you know, frigid

480
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,240
beach to talk to this guy I can't remember, you

481
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:53,920
know how he was connected to the band. He's one

482
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,839
of the members, and you know that they go back

483
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,279
and forth. He's like, guy, I ought to talk to

484
00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:03,440
my wife, and then the camera just pivots and we

485
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,880
realized his wife is like thirty feet away again on

486
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,920
this wide empty beach, just standing in the frigid water,

487
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,960
and so Mickey Rourke has to kind of like walk

488
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:16,119
out with her into the in his you know, full

489
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,839
suit right to talk with her about the details. It's

490
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,759
kind of a throwaway gag, but nonetheless it's it's pretty funny. Now,

491
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:30,559
what's interesting is that that Harry goes back to the

492
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:33,799
same kind of I guess you'd say church or like

493
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:39,599
assembly room before and he's just sort of looking around

494
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,759
and is attacked by two men. But before he is,

495
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:48,440
he sort of walks up to this same shrouded figure.

496
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:49,720
Do you remember what I'm talking about?

497
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:51,799
Speaker 2: Andy, Yes, absolutely, I remember.

498
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:54,759
Speaker 4: So what do you make of that scene?

499
00:32:56,319 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: Well? I am not entirely sure. It seems like from

500
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,839
a motivational standpoint, you know, he's having doubts maybe about

501
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,079
what he's getting into Rourke is starting to wonder, like, what,

502
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:18,279
what exactly did I see up there with this bloodstain

503
00:33:18,359 --> 00:33:21,599
that we mentioned earlier on the wall and this woman

504
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,920
kind of cleaning the blood off the wall before he

505
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:31,960
ever makes contact with his employer, Lewis Scifier, and I think,

506
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,119
maybe you know, he's going back to to investigate that.

507
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:41,640
And then yeah, he sees this this skinny girl, this

508
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:49,880
shrouded figure who's I get the premise is like she's

509
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,920
praying or in mourning or something, and he's he's just

510
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,759
about to make contact with her, and then he's assaulted.

511
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,319
But he's these two guys.

512
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:02,799
Speaker 5: So.

513
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: It kind of echoes some stuff that happens later, of course,

514
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,920
because throughout the movie pretty much that's the jump off

515
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,920
point where he is he's under physical pressure. People various

516
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:23,519
entities or interests are sending tough guys after him, and

517
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,199
he's getting his ass beat a little bit here and there,

518
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,599
both in New York. But then this happens multiple times

519
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,119
when he gets down to New Orleans. So I'm not

520
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,400
entirely sure other than to say it does its work

521
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:42,280
again to like set a sense that time and space

522
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,360
are not entirely it doesn't view like this. It's not

523
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,320
a time travel movie or anything like that, but there

524
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,159
are enough echoes back and forth where in thinking about

525
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:58,480
it like we are now, you realize either Parker or

526
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:05,199
the novelist has has done some work to like tie

527
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:09,239
things together very nicely. That's the level that that I

528
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,760
kind of view it as.

529
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,119
Speaker 4: And it's a it's a great scene shot wise, because

530
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,119
again we see this dramatic shot of him walking up

531
00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:21,920
the stairs, the bars kind of opening to either side,

532
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:25,400
and he's walking around this scene. You know, he picks

533
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,239
up the brush right that they used to scrub the blood.

534
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,400
It's still kind of stained, you know, ruddy red, and

535
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,719
it's cutting back and forth between him, you know, investigating

536
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,840
this this sort of voodoo church after hours with this

537
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,760
sort of which I mentioned earlier, this over the top

538
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,320
religious parade where you have this kind of black preacher

539
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:50,840
on like a litter, right, he's carried by you know,

540
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,079
a group of guys. There's you know, there's nuns of

541
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:58,400
some variety and like a brass band going. You know,

542
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,559
it's this kind of crazy scene contrasted against this kind

543
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:05,719
of slum and harlem and as you know, he's accosted

544
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,039
by these two men. It's sort of a you know,

545
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:10,280
a great like late eighties fight scene. You know, there's

546
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,519
smashing chairs and everything. He runs out and he runs

547
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:17,360
into the parade. So this sort of you know, this

548
00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:18,960
I guess you would say like an A and B

549
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,519
not plot, but kind of you know, series kind of

550
00:36:22,519 --> 00:36:25,960
collide together and he you know, dumps the faster over

551
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,880
the two goons. You know, have to say it help them,

552
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:31,039
and then he you know, he dodges out of town.

553
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,159
But you're kind of an interesting moment there. There's some

554
00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,679
other characterization of you know, makeey work. We get we

555
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,039
find out that he's sort of a ladies man, right,

556
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:41,920
he was able to get a lot of this information

557
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:45,719
by sleeping with, you know, someone who worked at city Hall.

558
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,960
There's a really minor moment walking into this scene where

559
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,960
he sees this Puerto Rican girl getting dropped off by

560
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,000
her her boyfriend, and it's basically implied they're also sleeping together.

561
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,559
So you know, he's so of a he's sort of

562
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:06,000
a tomcat. But as we we go to uh, New Orleans,

563
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:12,679
it's really a dramatic change, uh, because he's he's chasing

564
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:19,639
after uh. Obviously this this character, you know, Evangeline Proudfoot,

565
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:29,800
but excuse me, uh. He he meets with Margaret kruzmar Right,

566
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,400
who's this this very wealthy woman. He goes to her

567
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,199
sort of you know, swanky New Orleans magic shop. Right,

568
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,760
it's very clearly upscale. She's an older woman, still very attractive,

569
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,199
but clearly kind of you know, pastor prime.

570
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

571
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 4: She has a you know, sort of a nanny figure.

572
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,920
He he asks her about all you know this information?

573
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:56,719
She he she tells him that, uh, you know that

574
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:02,320
that Proudfoot is dead, but sir by her seventeen year

575
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:09,000
old daughter. So he goes to meet her. Uh do

576
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,079
you want to describe I guess that that kind of

577
00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:13,960
transition from New Orleans to you know, meeting up with

578
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,880
this woman and then later uh, the kind of seventeen

579
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,800
year old will be at the center of a lot

580
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,599
of this film.

581
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can try. The things that stand out

582
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,920
to me are even right when he gets off, it's

583
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,360
like a I think it's an Art Deco style train,

584
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:37,440
and he's he takes his jacket off and he's immediately sweating,

585
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,920
and he's got to change. He's got to change into

586
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,599
his like linen searsucker suit before he goes and meets

587
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:50,320
with Cruise Mark, and you're right, like the whole color

588
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:58,480
palette is is entirely different. And I'm not sure at

589
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:03,920
what point, you know in the linear progression he makes

590
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,559
it over to I guess it's after maybe he meets

591
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:13,519
the Lisa Bonnet character. This is the the daughter of

592
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:19,920
of Evangeline Proudfoot, who was the girlfriend of the crooner

593
00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:25,360
that that our guys looking for. And he goes over

594
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,480
to this little root shop, like a like a voodoo

595
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,480
mammy shop, and it's it's Carter or something. And that's

596
00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:35,519
one of my favorite scenes, the way that that old

597
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:40,199
black woman just just stares him down, telling him basically

598
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,079
the truth and how and and it's it's it's like

599
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,199
the scene from well a couple of different characters in

600
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,119
Cohen films, but in No Country for Old Men, there

601
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:59,960
are these snippets where a really minor character just all

602
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,639
almost takes over the whole film, and this happens several

603
00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:07,559
times in this movie. That's one of them. And somewhere

604
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:11,639
in there, you know, he's we as the audience and

605
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,239
our guy Mickey Rourke are being introduced to the lay

606
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,239
of the land there in New Orleans and he rents

607
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,280
a car and he's so he's going out of town

608
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,559
a little bit to where the poor folks live pretty much,

609
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:35,639
and he tracks her down and it's she's this, you know,

610
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,199
seventeen year old sex bomb. I mean, she's just I remember.

611
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,920
So this is another aspect of I was around and

612
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:52,039
like cognizant of sexuality and whatnot when Lisa Bonet kind

613
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:56,880
of hit the scene And it's hard to translate now

614
00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:00,519
because it's it's just way more common. But she was

615
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:07,079
like she was in the Cosby Show, as I recall,

616
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:09,400
and this was a super popular show. I might have

617
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:16,840
this wrong but beautiful face, and you know, not really

618
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,480
up to that point in her career. I don't think

619
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:23,880
she'd just done the overt sexuality thing. But this is like,

620
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:27,360
how do you can't emphasize enough? How this is just

621
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:34,920
oozing off of the screen. When she's introduced, her sexuality

622
00:41:35,039 --> 00:41:40,239
is just like overwhelming. The Mickey Rourke character is immediately transfixed,

623
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:47,840
and she like changes the whole the whole tone. From there,

624
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:52,800
I think he goes he goes to find another associate

625
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:58,599
of his guy to crooner, which we should pause maybe

626
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:00,960
just to say, you know, you mentioned the Faustian thing.

627
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:06,239
Another thing that's happening here is angel Hart and the

628
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:12,239
novel are playing off the Robert Johnson the Paganini. There

629
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,199
are a few other well, I mean, Jimmy Page. This

630
00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:20,039
this old idea that musicians can sell their souls for

631
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:25,360
musical talent, and we do at some point sort of

632
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,559
you know, I'm not sure how much spoiler we want

633
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:31,159
to give, but we start to realize maybe this is

634
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:35,519
in play right because the blues come in. He goes

635
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:38,760
into this blues bar to meet this old associate Toots,

636
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:41,880
who's playing the blues go ahead.

637
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:46,639
Speaker 4: Weird connection really reminds me a lot of there's a

638
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,840
very similar scene in Collateral. It's not entirely the same,

639
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:57,119
but it does rhyme a good bit when when Tom

640
00:42:57,159 --> 00:43:00,440
Cruise's character I can't remember who goes into a blues

641
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,119
bar and ends up killing a very similar figure to

642
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:04,840
put Sweet.

643
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: Uh interesting.

644
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,679
Speaker 4: Obviously, I have no idea if there's any sort of

645
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:12,719
connection there, but just you know, something that's sort of

646
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,920
you know, knocked loose in my mind. Uh So there. Obviously,

647
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,800
we've got a lot of film to cover and less

648
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,679
time than i'd like, so we're gonna have to move

649
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:26,119
a little quickly, but to backtrack slightly or to contradict

650
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,639
exactly what I just said.

651
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

652
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 4: So those couple scenes are pretty interesting because one when

653
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,920
he goes to meet this Accusa Mark woman. Uh, he

654
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,679
goes partially but not all the way through with getting

655
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:47,840
his palm red right. He's asking her very direct questions

656
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,000
about the singer. She gets offended kicks him out.

657
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

658
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 4: And regardless through this you know, connection to Lisa Bbney's character,

659
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,280
he figures out needs to talk to this guy to

660
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:03,639
sweet Uh. I will say, as someone who loves Louisiana,

661
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,519
this film gets it so right. There's an awesome shot

662
00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:11,320
where he's he's tracking Cusa Mark back to her property

663
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,079
and he's on one of these sort of iconic New

664
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:17,280
Orleans streetcars. Now there's only like two of them left.

665
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,599
They seem to be lost technology and they are continually

666
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:24,159
getting flooded in hurricanes because that's what happens in New Orleans.

667
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:25,840
So there's sort of a vanishing breed. But I have

668
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:28,440
you know, been on that that route up and down

669
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,119
Saint Charles before, and it perfectly gets the sort of

670
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:34,719
you know ideal kind of you know noir feel for it,

671
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,320
you know, back in the sixties or whatever. So I

672
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,679
just wanted to say it's it's very very well done.

673
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,199
And again another interesting uh, which is very you know,

674
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,079
kind of southern, very New Orleans, is the the contrast

675
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:53,800
between you know, the the city and the country, because

676
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,280
you know, we see that the kind of contrast between

677
00:44:57,519 --> 00:45:00,519
you know, the relative bustle of New Orleans. And then

678
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:02,840
when he gets to the more rural, kind of middle

679
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,000
of nowhere part of Louisiana, which is where he you know,

680
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:07,199
meets Lisa Benet.

681
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: Uh.

682
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,079
Speaker 4: Sorry, it just kind of some scattered thoughts there, but

683
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:13,880
nonetheless something really important to bring up because they are

684
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:19,559
dramatically different and you know, shot similarly. So when he

685
00:45:19,559 --> 00:45:27,679
he meets up with uh with Toots, he basically refers

686
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,239
him back to to Margaret, right. Uh, he follows him. Uh,

687
00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:37,760
he follows him back to his place. They have sort

688
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,800
of a scuffle and Toots pulls a razor blade, cuts

689
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,519
him on the hand, and you know, Harry just kind

690
00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:47,679
of you know, punches him and basically says like all right,

691
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:53,199
like you know, give me the information, and cuts to

692
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:58,599
the next morning he's in his hotel and these two

693
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,960
kind of uh, which this is a very Coen Brothers

694
00:46:03,079 --> 00:46:07,360
set of characters. That the police officers come in and

695
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,519
let him know that. And I might have the order wrong,

696
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:13,519
but that is that Toots has been killed. Does that

697
00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:20,039
happen before or after Margaret is killed? It's before, Yeah,

698
00:46:20,119 --> 00:46:24,360
it's a minor spoiler, but you know whatever, that basically,

699
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,000
yet again another source, another important part of this case

700
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,440
has been killed, and the police basically say like, look,

701
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,159
you know you're the presumptive suspect. We heard that you

702
00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:38,360
guys got into a scuffle that he threw you out

703
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,960
of this bar, Like we're you know, we've got an

704
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:44,360
eye on you.

705
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: Now.

706
00:46:48,159 --> 00:46:54,639
Speaker 4: We also get this sort of vision of or not vision.

707
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:59,000
I guess he just goes and tracks one of our

708
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:05,400
characters to this sort of crazed voodoo ritual. So yeah,

709
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,719
the segment is very very bizarre. I'll let you kind

710
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,199
of handle that, Andy, Okay.

711
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:17,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so from two, it's he he gets out

712
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:19,840
back to the country, or maybe he's already in the

713
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,880
country at that point, but he he realizes that he's

714
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,840
he's deep into this this voodoo environment, and that is

715
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:33,320
maybe one of that's the first moment where we see

716
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,840
the Lisa Bonet kind of sex pot character. She's doing

717
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:42,280
this like elaborate humping the earth. We see your bare chest,

718
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:47,119
and you know, for the film goer, it's it's pretty spicy.

719
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,280
I mean, I guess say, now, you know, we live

720
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,119
in a different time, but but then it was. I

721
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:57,920
think it was pretty racy, as as they used to

722
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,320
say back then.

723
00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:00,159
Speaker 5: And and.

724
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,039
Speaker 2: I want to say too, at that point, it's pretty

725
00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:08,159
clear that to the viewer, like the walls are kind

726
00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:14,440
of closing in on our guy, and people are being

727
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:20,159
iced left and right, and the steaks are ramping up.

728
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,440
Everything's just kind of spinning out of control. It's getting

729
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:28,079
weirder and weirder and weirder. And yet it was striking

730
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:29,880
to me. And I'm glad you touched on it. Here

731
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,519
the visuals both in the country. There's some scenes later

732
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:39,880
where he winds up with these oh kind of like

733
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,920
I guess maybe they're creole types. They're just like backwoods

734
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,000
oystermen and crawfish guys. You see that element of the

735
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:57,480
country and it's juxtaposed back against you know, one of

736
00:48:57,519 --> 00:49:00,639
the most spectacular cities probably have all time, which is

737
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:06,079
New Orleans. In it's and I'm not a real expert

738
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:09,559
on New Orleans at all, but it's pretty satisfying from

739
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:12,920
my point of view as a you know, a Pacific northwesterner.

740
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:18,000
You feel like you get a really good taste of

741
00:49:18,039 --> 00:49:23,440
that place. You see these the architecture, you know, you

742
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,280
get enough of the classic kind of French quarter stuff,

743
00:49:26,519 --> 00:49:30,199
but you see these other plazas, and you mentioned the

744
00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:36,760
the streetcar. It's and for nothing else. It's it's to

745
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,480
say this movie has a lot more going on as

746
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:43,719
a piece of art than just you know, another kind

747
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:49,000
of interesting, maybe supernatural NEWIR flick. It's it's it's very

748
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,320
well done as far as picking up from maybe where

749
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:59,239
where our guy finds out that this Lisa Bonett character

750
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:06,159
is is sort of voodoo priestess. I mean, from there,

751
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,840
it's kind of like full speed ahead. Right, we're almost yeah.

752
00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:13,639
Speaker 4: So we we start to see our kind of main

753
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,519
character unravel.

754
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: Right.

755
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 4: This is now the second person connected to this case

756
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,800
who's turned up dead. He followed Touts back from this ritual.

757
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,320
That's where they had I had that order slightly reversed.

758
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:30,800
That's where they had their confrontation. You know, he's cut

759
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,960
by Toots and we see this dramatic shot of him

760
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:37,079
leaving just drenched in blood, much more than we would

761
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:40,800
expect from uh, you know, just the simple cut we

762
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,679
saw touts give him. But anyway, the police barge in.

763
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,559
They let him know that he's the primary suspect. So

764
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:49,559
we see this shot of him later in a bar,

765
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,000
and he's staring at himself in the mirror in this payphone,

766
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,280
and we're seeing this kind of mix of symbols, you know,

767
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,000
while he's listening to the dial ring, we're seeing shots

768
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:05,320
from V Day, right, We're seeing shots from this kind

769
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,039
of great, you know, celebration after the war is over.

770
00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:13,000
We're seeing a shot of a fan spinning, and shots

771
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:17,800
of again him riding an elevator down in front of

772
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,880
these kind of bars. Images you will see repeated again

773
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,639
and again and again. And as this sort of this

774
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,000
these symbols, you know, become more and more frantic, he's

775
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,679
all of a sudden jerked out or jerked you know,

776
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,840
back to reality by a guy you know, ask him

777
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,480
for a quarter or something. But nonetheless we see him

778
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:39,679
start to deteriorate. The next scene, we find out that

779
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:44,280
Margaret's dead too, and not just dead in the way

780
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,719
that the other people have, although you know, it's had

781
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,000
a grizzly end. I won't exactly explain why, but you

782
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,239
can imagine, you know, he didn't exactly you know, have

783
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:59,280
a particularly pleasant passing. But Margaret has been ritually murdered, right,

784
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,239
She's been basically, you know, cut with a ritual dagger

785
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,920
and her living heart pulled out right quite a grizzly,

786
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,320
you know, kind of dramatic death. And so again, it's

787
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,679
honestly remarkable. Because I've got the film up in one

788
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,159
tab just so I can refer to the imagery. This

789
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:21,519
is an hour and fifty minute movie. We are currently

790
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:24,119
at the hour and ten minute mark by watch time,

791
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,960
which if you would have asked me, this next hour

792
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:32,360
goes by incredibly credibly quickly because of how frantic the pacing.

793
00:52:32,119 --> 00:52:35,639
Speaker 2: Is, I didn't realize that's the case. It is like that, right,

794
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:41,480
like it just he's the film is so brilliantly executed

795
00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:45,159
from the technical level that I mean going. That's why

796
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:47,719
I said, is I was. I was laying in bed

797
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,480
thinking about it, and I was like, is there even

798
00:52:49,519 --> 00:52:54,480
a single shot that I would stretch or change? Because

799
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,760
the viewer has been led up to that point and

800
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,280
It's like the last hour just evaporates in ten to

801
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:06,239
fifteen minutes. Things move so quickly, and they're so consistent

802
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,159
with the logic of the film up to that point, so.

803
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:14,079
Speaker 4: We're gonna have to move a little bit more quickly.

804
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:14,679
Speaker 2: Uh.

805
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:17,559
Speaker 4: You know, after he finds out that you know, Margaret

806
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:21,079
is dead, he again has leaves the scene of the crime.

807
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:26,639
He goes back to find more information kind of in

808
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,840
the country again we see this sort of very very

809
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,320
true detective sort of open air revival baptism going on,

810
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:40,760
and while he's poking around, he's assaulted by a you know,

811
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,800
a group of men. They threaten him with a dog.

812
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,199
And he meets back up with this woman, Epiphany, This

813
00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:51,960
this seventeen year old, and you know, they talk a

814
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:57,840
little bit more. The then he meets back up with

815
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:04,079
Cipher and this is is incredibly uh kind of creepy scene.

816
00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:07,760
You know, he they meet up, they're in a kind

817
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,440
of church. This is sort of a classic Hollywood shot

818
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,239
where there's sort of a service going on, but still

819
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,559
we're you know, having this this full discussion kind of

820
00:54:16,599 --> 00:54:19,800
in the back and you know, the menace is just

821
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:25,800
off the charts, right. This kind of creepy, creepy kind

822
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,400
of occultist character. You're really putting the screws on him,

823
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,239
basically saying like you can't back out now, you know,

824
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,800
you've got to keep going. And you know, Cipher's telling

825
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,719
him like, oh, there's there's three bodies. Are you sure

826
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,760
that this isn't you know, something that you're involved in?

827
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:49,280
And then Epiphany ends up back at the next scene,

828
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:54,400
ends up back at mickey works place. Ah, the two

829
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,760
of them share a drink, they go to bed together,

830
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:05,000
and the scene goes absolutely nuts from there. So Andy,

831
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,559
I'll let you handle this one, Okay.

832
00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:10,599
Speaker 2: So that scene, it's it's got to be one of

833
00:55:10,639 --> 00:55:12,559
the most Like if you were to make a collage

834
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:21,119
of iconic, intense Hollywood film scenes, I think it'd be

835
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:24,400
appropriate to splice in a few shots of Mickey Rourke

836
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:31,440
and Lisa Bonet in New Orleans in this completely humid,

837
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:37,559
sweaty environment. Getting down to this. I think it's like

838
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:40,760
a like an old jazz standard song. It starts out

839
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:46,199
with and it isn't, you know, terribly graphic or anything

840
00:55:46,199 --> 00:55:49,920
in terms of the sexuality, but it goes from you know,

841
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,400
pretty tame to pretty intense to as you say, like

842
00:55:55,639 --> 00:56:00,639
absolutely mind boggling what's happening in the in the space

843
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:04,079
of like a minute or maybe two minutes. I forget

844
00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:07,400
how long it's stretched out. But here's the part where

845
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,360
you know we're getting deep into spoiler territory. He's I

846
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,400
think that our character is fracturing. He's entering in like

847
00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:18,519
the very heart of his mystery, the mystery that he

848
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,840
is involved in that he is trying to understand, and

849
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,840
it's all sort of, if you will, The supernatural aspect

850
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:34,239
of it is just dom it's coming overt and it's

851
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,760
raining very intensely outside. There are these leaks in the

852
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,320
hotel room. He's trying to catch them in these buckets,

853
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,840
and this becomes like a deluge where the whole room

854
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,960
is just water is streaming down the wall and the

855
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,880
two characters on the bed are just completely soaked. And

856
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,320
then some blood is introduced into that rain, and so

857
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:01,880
once again back to like the religious image and you know,

858
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,559
the salvation. I think that there may be even a

859
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:09,000
layer further to this movie in terms of its religious symbolism,

860
00:57:09,159 --> 00:57:12,239
and I don't know that it's like accurate symbolism, but

861
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,639
what Parker is playing with is is pretty intense. I

862
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,039
mean water and blood and here they are in this

863
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:22,039
creative act. I'll leave it up to you, Jay, you

864
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:24,039
know how much you want to give away our to

865
00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:28,119
our listeners in terms of the relationship between the Lisa

866
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:34,800
Bonett character and the detective. But it's like, in some

867
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,400
ways you're hitting a couple of crescendos in that that

868
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:40,800
we talked about this pat this last like forty five

869
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,480
minutes of the film. You're hitting like explosions boom boom,

870
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:47,519
boom boom, and they come in such rapid succession where

871
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:50,199
the plot is just filling in it, you know, its

872
00:57:50,239 --> 00:57:54,960
expectations that it's it's hard to keep up with honestly,

873
00:57:55,239 --> 00:58:01,960
and remember how it presents well and there's.

874
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:09,239
Speaker 4: This scene is bonkers, like absolutely wild, yeah, and shit,

875
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:12,679
it sort of starts off kind of how you'd expect,

876
00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:15,159
you know, as you mentioned, there's the kind of water element.

877
00:58:15,559 --> 00:58:18,000
And as it it builds, we see a couple of things,

878
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,360
which is one it's sort of cutting between as it

879
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,280
builds an intensity images of this kind of like hellss

880
00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:30,320
hellish orgy where there is right, yeah kind of you know,

881
00:58:31,159 --> 00:58:34,039
blood and sex and it's you're not entirely sure where

882
00:58:34,039 --> 00:58:38,000
one begins in the other ends also we see there

883
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:41,440
their faces now in you know, these kind of like

884
00:58:41,639 --> 00:58:47,280
gruesome grimaces of pain. And the blood begins. First is

885
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,079
sort of a tinge to the water, and then it

886
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:52,960
goes to a full on slasher movie level. And as

887
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,039
it sort of begins to coat the walls, we see

888
00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:59,000
again this repeated image of this you know, skinny crone

889
00:58:59,079 --> 00:59:02,719
like figure scrubbing the walls, right, echoing what we saw

890
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:09,000
at the very beginning, right with the suicide, and it

891
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:13,559
builds Toru Krishndo, and then it's the next morning. Yeah,

892
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:17,440
you don't really know what happened. So we're an Now

893
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:22,360
we're in. We have avoided spoilers no more. Watch this movie.

894
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,400
It's not for the faint of heart. It's very very good. However,

895
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,719
we really can't wrap up the film without discussing the spoilers.

896
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 5: Here.

897
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: This is it.

898
00:59:33,239 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 4: If you don't want to have it spoiled, log out

899
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:39,079
watch the film. It's not hard to find. But from

900
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:40,679
now on we just have to discuss it. Like there's

901
00:59:40,719 --> 00:59:43,039
really no way around it at this point. But you

902
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:45,000
got an hour, right, that's not too bad as far

903
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:50,320
as spoiler free content goes. So again. You know that

904
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:57,480
this scene kind of resolves, and the next morning, the

905
00:59:58,199 --> 01:00:01,119
two cops show up again at the kind of you know,

906
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:07,039
obscene obsanely overweight you know, kind of New Orleans detective

907
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:10,679
which is kind of like seersucker suit and you know, comedically,

908
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,159
you know, short tie. They come up to tell him like, hey, look,

909
01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:18,320
apparently this Margaret woman has shown up dead as well. Yeah,

910
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,920
like we've arrested people for way less. So point is

911
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:26,320
like the eye of the law is is upon him.

912
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,639
We we also somewhat later, as he's you know, kind

913
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:32,519
of walking around, we see that he is still under

914
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:37,400
observation from these kind of like a punitive person, say,

915
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:42,239
kind of like white trash tofts. Right, Yeah, so he

916
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,400
he's running away from them. We see they actually try

917
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,800
and you know shoot him. You know, so he's still

918
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,360
kind of running away, but he's still devoted to this case.

919
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,480
So he ends up at this kind of you know,

920
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:58,920
low rent horse race where Margaret's father is right again

921
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,480
looking for or more context. Right, So he meets up

922
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:09,880
with with her father at the you know, at the

923
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,519
horse race. They go back to this kind of again

924
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:18,960
you know gumbo shack, right, and which again I'm be

925
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,119
honest that I just kind of love.

926
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

927
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:40,599
Speaker 4: So basically Crusemark the Elder reveals that Margaret helped Johnny

928
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:45,519
Favorite leave the hospital, he claims, and we find out

929
01:01:45,599 --> 01:01:50,239
this is true, that Favorite sold his soul to Satan

930
01:01:50,639 --> 01:01:56,280
in exchange or stardom, but sought to, you know, get

931
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:00,719
out of the bargain. So in nineteen forty three, they

932
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,079
kidnapped a soldier performed a ritual on him his still heart,

933
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:10,519
still beating heart rather in order to hide from the Devil,

934
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:15,400
right to basically sort of transfer the debt. Harry has

935
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,280
a panic attack because he's sort of starting to realize

936
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:23,840
what this means. And when he returns Krusemark is dead.

937
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,920
He's drowned in the gumbo. As he goes back to

938
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,320
Margaret's home, he finds a clue to this soldier's identity,

939
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:40,320
dog tags with his name stamped on them. So say fair,

940
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,400
however you say his name shows up and Angel realizes

941
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:49,840
this is the Devil and he's back to claim what's

942
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:57,840
his Favorite soul and Cipher basically tells him not only

943
01:02:58,639 --> 01:03:03,440
are you Johnny Favorite, but you killed Fowler, you killed Toots,

944
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:10,559
you killed the cruise Marks and Epiphany because when Angel

945
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:16,239
afterwards again in a kind of fugue state, returns, the

946
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:21,400
police found Epiphany brutally murdered and you know, the victim

947
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,000
of other violence as well, wearing Angel's dog tags, and

948
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:32,960
Angel reveals that Epiphany was his daughter or a detective

949
01:03:33,199 --> 01:03:37,320
basically tells him you'll burn an Angel says, I know

950
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,079
in hell. And during the end credits, right, we watch

951
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:48,039
Angel standing inside this kind of iconic elevator just descending

952
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:55,280
forever and yeah, it's it's it's it's for real.

953
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 2: Grim Man, you handle that so well. I mean you

954
01:03:58,519 --> 01:04:03,159
just like it gets so intense when it hits like

955
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:10,079
it's we talked earlier about like usual Suspects or what's

956
01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:16,400
the one with Bruce willis the Dead People's sense? Yeah,

957
01:04:16,519 --> 01:04:23,079
where the reveal is so it's like a work of architecture,

958
01:04:23,239 --> 01:04:28,519
like high art. It's so well done and so intense

959
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:34,159
that there's there's an overwhelming aspect to that to that

960
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,519
last fifteen or twenty minutes. And man, when he's going

961
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:41,920
down the elevator, like, I don't know how you can

962
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,519
watch the movie and not not be moved, do you know,

963
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:52,719
to evaluate what is and what is not reality hectic,

964
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:57,280
I mean just extremely, extremely moving to me anyway.

965
01:04:58,679 --> 01:05:06,519
Speaker 4: No, definitely, I mean, you definitely understand that all is

966
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:09,599
not as it seems. But you know the fact that

967
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,639
you know, the main character is constantly being pursued sort

968
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:17,920
of lets you lets you kind of take refuge in

969
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,559
the fact that he is, he's seek he's trying to

970
01:05:20,639 --> 01:05:24,000
uncover something, right, that all will be revealed, you know

971
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:29,599
that he will expose this conspiracy. But and I haven't

972
01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:32,599
watched it again, so maybe it's incredibly incredibly obvious on

973
01:05:32,639 --> 01:05:36,039
a second viewing, but it doesn't feel cheap, it doesn't

974
01:05:36,039 --> 01:05:38,760
feel unearned. And even going back to you know, things

975
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:43,159
earlier about hearing you know, Johnny and Harry's name kind

976
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:45,960
of repeated back, like flipping and flopping back and forth.

977
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:49,360
You could look at that as incredibly obvious, but having

978
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:53,280
seen it, you really don't go there. You're constantly looking

979
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,239
for another solution until the kind of final key drops

980
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:05,679
into plates. I mean, obviously, this film is incredibly it's

981
01:06:05,719 --> 01:06:08,639
incredibly grim. One of the things we haven't mentioned, right,

982
01:06:08,679 --> 01:06:12,239
is that Epiphany has this three year old child, identity

983
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,760
of which is not known, and when the police carry

984
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:20,800
it out, its eyes flash exactly how Cipher's eyes flash,

985
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,519
indicating that that is likely the child of the devil.

986
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 2: Right.

987
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:31,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an incredibly grim film. I mean, we again

988
01:06:31,159 --> 01:06:35,360
have this repeated motif of Johnny Harry whichever one you

989
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:41,400
want to call them, repeatedly refusing salvation, right, refusing forgiveness,

990
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,840
and so he is damned. Right, that is the conclusion

991
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,280
to this film. It's an incredibly dark ending for kind

992
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,440
of a Hollywood film. You're expecting there to be some

993
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:55,239
kind of silver lining or way out, and as presented,

994
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:56,920
it's an incredibly fatalistic film.

995
01:06:58,159 --> 01:07:01,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. I think that's why,

996
01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:05,360
you know, viewing it a second time, that imagery we

997
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:12,519
talked about at you know earlier, where it this redemptive

998
01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:15,440
aspect has to be there, like for us to experience

999
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:22,119
again a coherent kind of religious situation at the end,

1000
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,760
you know, it feels entire it's shocking, like how used

1001
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,000
to how uncomfortable it is. It's like, man, this dude

1002
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:33,280
is done. It is over. There is nothing but yet

1003
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:38,760
the entire movie, there were these signs and opportunities and

1004
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,400
he's just simply at the end. My take on it

1005
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,639
was sort of like because there are multiple mentions that

1006
01:07:46,719 --> 01:07:51,039
this guy Johnny favorite Harry, whoever is is very is

1007
01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:56,280
a very evil man, is not a good guy. And

1008
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,440
you know how how exactly that works out in the

1009
01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:02,800
arc of of the Roar character, where he has these

1010
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:09,400
other kind of almost tender qualities. It's it just it

1011
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,199
seems to compound the despair that I feel at the

1012
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,960
end of the film, where man, they're just something had

1013
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:19,239
just turned a little bit differently. Maybe this guy could

1014
01:08:19,239 --> 01:08:22,960
have turned the corner and been saved in some way.

1015
01:08:23,039 --> 01:08:26,800
But I know we're getting towards the end, Jay, But

1016
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:33,680
what I wanted to ask you take you know, where's

1017
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,560
it sit for you? I mean, is it as it

1018
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,560
a masterpiece? Is it just a great movie? Is do

1019
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,359
you need to watch it ten more times? What do

1020
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:44,159
you think? So here's here's.

1021
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,680
Speaker 4: Here's my here's my thought on it. It's a it's

1022
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,399
a very very good film. Uh. I don't know if

1023
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:52,920
it's a true masterpiece, because I don't know if i'd

1024
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,239
recommend it to everyone, right, And it fits into a

1025
01:08:57,239 --> 01:09:02,760
a category of art I tend to enjoy, which is

1026
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:10,000
extremely specific in films or books, right where you know

1027
01:09:10,119 --> 01:09:11,640
there's something to be said about just kind of the

1028
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,279
universal masterpiece everyone needs to see. But I really enjoy

1029
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,960
movies that have a very specific target, particularly one that

1030
01:09:19,039 --> 01:09:23,279
hasn't been hit before, and go about that goal particularly well,

1031
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:29,319
because I mean, you probably know the genre of you know,

1032
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,359
a cult noar better than I do, but I can't

1033
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:36,600
think of all that many you know, sort of works

1034
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,000
in the genre. Like really it's like this and True

1035
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:42,119
Detective as far as I'm aware, and both of those

1036
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:45,039
are really great, and whatever that genre is. I love it,

1037
01:09:46,119 --> 01:09:49,479
but it's not for everyone, right, Like it's a it's

1038
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:56,479
a quite a viewing experience. And again, I have, you know,

1039
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,359
no complaints. I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I

1040
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:03,439
will genuinely I've never seen anything like this film before.

1041
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,640
On it a multitude of levels, and I think part

1042
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,239
of the reason why I'm so like my jaw was

1043
01:10:09,319 --> 01:10:11,520
on the floor throughout this entire film is I had

1044
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,960
absolutely nothing, no expectation whatsoever, just a you know, a

1045
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:17,640
little blurb on Twitter and it's like, okay, all right,

1046
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:22,359
I'll go watch that, and uh yeah, it's I think.

1047
01:10:22,399 --> 01:10:24,920
I It's been what two weeks since I've watched it,

1048
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:26,560
and I still feel like I need more time to

1049
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:30,199
sit on it. If anything, I think is perhaps the

1050
01:10:30,239 --> 01:10:34,680
one weakness. This is a pretty tepid criticism the character

1051
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:42,359
of Cipher because they say, in a bizarre way, it

1052
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:45,399
is it's a little on the nose. It's a little

1053
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:51,000
on the nose. And especially once I realized going back

1054
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:55,319
over the summary that it's it's like Lewis Scifier Lucifer,

1055
01:10:55,399 --> 01:10:57,760
I was like, okay, guys, come on now, just because

1056
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,520
I didn't catch that, it's because I'm not parting Bright

1057
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,840
so like fair enough. But that was the one thing

1058
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,039
where I was like, that's a little bit of an

1059
01:11:04,079 --> 01:11:07,560
eye roll. But other than that, I genuinely enjoyed the

1060
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,800
film quite a bit, and I would recommend it. I think,

1061
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,560
you know, particularly people who are interested in you know,

1062
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,279
your work, Andy, which is kind of mixing you know,

1063
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,319
kind of tropes from the the kind of noir genre

1064
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,920
with the supernatural, and also you know my work with Thomas.

1065
01:11:23,319 --> 01:11:25,520
I mean, I think that you and I both just

1066
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:31,279
because of our our theological commitments, wouldn't necessarily sign off

1067
01:11:31,319 --> 01:11:33,439
on this as like a piece of doctrine.

1068
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 2: Right.

1069
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 4: Obviously it's a Hollywood film, but it is genuinely fascinating,

1070
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:45,359
especially because it is a an uncompromising version of evil,

1071
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:48,239
and it is not a version of evil that you

1072
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,720
can really make deals with, right making that that deal

1073
01:11:54,319 --> 01:11:58,000
not only did it it fail to you know, catapult

1074
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:01,880
you know, Johnny into stardom. He's a minor figure who

1075
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:07,159
got you know, drafted and you know, did seemingly experience

1076
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:10,199
shell shock and lose part of his memory why this

1077
01:12:10,239 --> 01:12:13,319
whole film even starts off. So I think that that

1078
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:17,039
is incredibly interesting as well, the idea of you know,

1079
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,279
making a deal with the devil truly does lead to

1080
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:25,039
damnation and destruction. And also, I maybe if I were

1081
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:28,159
in the director's chair, I think it would have been

1082
01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:33,640
interesting to sort of emphasize the repeated rejection of salvation more,

1083
01:12:34,359 --> 01:12:36,640
you know, in kind of a more traditional Faustian way.

1084
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,720
It is there, it is more subtle than other elements

1085
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:45,279
of the film. But yeah, I enjoy may not be

1086
01:12:45,359 --> 01:12:49,199
the operative word, but is a good, really good film

1087
01:12:49,359 --> 01:12:54,279
and I've never seen anything like it, which in many

1088
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:58,960
cases is a even aside from quality, a great recommendation,

1089
01:12:59,000 --> 01:12:59,800
but this is a quality.

1090
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, that's I would I would have to

1091
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,560
sign on with that. Technically, there are a few hiccups

1092
01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:14,760
and then theologically, it's the imagery, you know, and and

1093
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:19,880
the power of Hollywood too to manage stuff like as

1094
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:26,399
serious a question as if if you know, well, the

1095
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,760
Dostoyevsky thing, you know, like what did you really trade

1096
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:34,319
this for? Because it's usually not as dramatic in as

1097
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:39,279
as stardom or something. It's it's usually just something really mundane,

1098
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,800
like I chose to sit on my fat ass and

1099
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,039
watch TV instead of take care of my kids or

1100
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:48,239
you know, uh, my wife or something like that. Right,

1101
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,000
But that's still you know, in a manner of speaking

1102
01:13:51,159 --> 01:13:53,680
or way of looking at a way of selling your soul.

1103
01:13:54,359 --> 01:14:03,880
And it's it. I think you're right that there should

1104
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:10,159
maybe there's room for more treatment of the noir. I

1105
01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:12,840
mean I've been saying this, you know, for years now.

1106
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:18,520
Actually that the noir genre, if we want to look

1107
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:24,479
at it that way, holds a lot more possibilities for

1108
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,840
film or or books or what have you to manage

1109
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:34,319
the the spiritual and theological stuff then, And yeah, I

1110
01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:38,439
mean it couldn't always be done again in in in

1111
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,960
New Orleans, which is like you say, so specific but

1112
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:44,880
so right on the money. For some reason, I mean,

1113
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,439
why are these I thought this too, as I was

1114
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,279
watching it last night, True Detective, and like, you know,

1115
01:14:51,399 --> 01:14:55,159
if I get a chance to pick Pizzolado's brain, I

1116
01:14:55,199 --> 01:15:00,840
think we've got to ask him. Dude, you saw Angel

1117
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:04,159
Heart at some point, probably when I did. He's about

1118
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:06,520
my age, and it was an influence. Are you gonna

1119
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,920
Are you gonna cop to that or not? Because I

1120
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,239
mean it's there in all of the again, the blues

1121
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,159
lore and whatnot, Highway sixty six and or sixty one.

1122
01:15:18,199 --> 01:15:22,439
Excuse me, but but he saw that film and that

1123
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,319
had to been an influence on him, and and I agree,

1124
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:31,119
there's there's something about that setup, coming from up north,

1125
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,840
going into the South and then winding up in this

1126
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:42,800
incredibly colorful environment, and these elements being juxtapost you know, evil,

1127
01:15:43,039 --> 01:15:49,359
good beauty, lust, goodness. It's all there.

1128
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:52,079
Speaker 5: Andy.

1129
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:53,359
Speaker 4: Where can people find you?

1130
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 2: On X? I just dropped my next book today. Actually

1131
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:04,319
I did a little we'll call it like White Orthodoxy Magic,

1132
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,680
and I dropped it at three thirty three am. I

1133
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,439
set my alarm, I got up, I got onto the

1134
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,920
computer and hit publish. So it'll be a little while.

1135
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,840
I think that maybe Tilla's actually available to They don't

1136
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,680
tell you quite when it'll be you can buy it today, tomorrow,

1137
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:25,039
what have you. But that's called Abstract Operator and it's

1138
01:16:25,039 --> 01:16:28,680
out there. It's pretty weird. It's not it's it's not

1139
01:16:29,079 --> 01:16:34,680
you know, standard like fiction. But but yeah, look me up,

1140
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,439
check the books out. Thanks Jay.

1141
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure thing, man. I haven't had a chance to

1142
01:16:40,279 --> 01:16:45,039
read Abstract Operator yet. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, man,

1143
01:16:45,159 --> 01:16:49,760
I always enjoy you coming on to do these these

1144
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,520
media review shows. I know, I said last time I

1145
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,159
was gonna let you pick, but I saw this movie

1146
01:16:55,159 --> 01:16:56,640
and I was like, I gotta have someone to talk

1147
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,119
to about this because otherwise I think I might go crazy.

1148
01:17:00,319 --> 01:17:02,800
So I'll let you pick the next one. No, Mickey Rourke,

1149
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:07,800
that's I think my one, uh my one request.

1150
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 2: Agreed, Agreed, we can avoid Mickey. Well, thanks for having me.

1151
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:13,159
I always love it too, man.

1152
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure thing man. As far as my stuff, The

1153
01:17:16,119 --> 01:17:20,159
Jay Burdens Show available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you

1154
01:17:20,199 --> 01:17:22,920
listen to podcasts what I do full time. If you

1155
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,680
want to support me, and I do really appreciate it,

1156
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,039
you can throw me a few bucks a month on Patreon,

1157
01:17:28,079 --> 01:17:30,520
Substack or gum Road and get the episodes early in

1158
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,760
ad free or you can check out our sponsor, Axios

1159
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:35,720
Remote Fitness Coaching. I've been under the weather for a

1160
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,239
little bit, i haven't been in the gym, sorely miss it,

1161
01:17:38,279 --> 01:17:41,920
but nonetheless you should be supporting JD. It's one of

1162
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:45,640
our guys small businessmen. Highly recommend it. Work again, Andy,

1163
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,119
I appreciate it, and everyone at home, keep your head up.

1164
01:17:48,199 --> 01:17:49,159
Why can't last forever?

1165
01:17:49,279 --> 01:18:23,119
Speaker 5: Good night? Do you know what real power is?

1166
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,199
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1167
01:18:26,359 --> 01:18:29,000
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Board Gosh Energy Know your Power Estimating annul a bill

1172
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