WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.240 --> 00:00:05.120 Don't be a victim. You have to own your own success. 2 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.080 Be a hero in your story. 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:17.679 Not the victim. 4 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:20.600 You're listening to the audible Ready podcast, The show that 5 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:24.440 helps you and your teams sell more Faster. Will feature 6 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:26.960 sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create 7 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:30.120 a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. 8 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:33.200 Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in 9 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:35.840 B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. 10 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:41.159 Hello, and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm 11 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:44.640 Rachel kleb Miller. Today we are going to talk about 12 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.799 what happens when you work for someone who isn't a 13 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:48.640 great manager. 14 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:49.679 We've all been there. 15 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:52.399 I do want to preface this podcast by saying, I 16 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:54.320 am not in that situation right now. 17 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:56.439 John Taplan joins you discuss Hi. 18 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:59.320 John, Hi, Rachel, good clarification. 19 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.039 Get the clarification out there at the top. 20 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.680 So John, what we've all We've all been there, and 21 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:10.599 some people listening right now might be nodding their heads 22 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:15.400 in agreement. You out there, maybe in a situation where 23 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.400 you're not really ready to leave for whatever reason. So 24 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:21.799 you have to maneuver through this current state of working 25 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:23.400 for a bad manager and. 26 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:24.040 Try your best. 27 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:31.799 Yeah, I think the reality check is Unfortunately, great leadership, 28 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:36.319 great management is it's rare, and so I would say, 29 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.000 you know, seventy to eighty percent of the time, you're 30 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:44.959 going to work for mediocre or even in some unfortunate situations, 31 00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:48.959 bad managers. And you know, so we all want to 32 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.079 work for good people. But if we're not working for 33 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.359 you know, good quality managers or leaders, there's there's some 34 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:02.920 things that you can do to improve your experience. And 35 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:06.680 it reminds me the reality check was a good one 36 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:09.599 and I got it at a young age. So I'll 37 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.319 just tell a quick story, Rachel, if you're okay with it. 38 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:16.960 I was a high school football player. I was pretty 39 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.159 good high school football player, and I was playing in 40 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:24.520 a big game. We were playing against a team that 41 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:30.599 had an outstanding opponent, a running back that went on 42 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:33.199 to play in the Big Ten. And so at that game, 43 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:34.919 there was a lot of pressure. There was a lot 44 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:40.599 of a lot of college coaches there to see this person. 45 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.039 And I knew that if you know, if I did 46 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.840 well against this individual, that they were also going to 47 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.520 see me. And there was an opportunity in the game. 48 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.400 At the end of the first half where I actually 49 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:56.719 knew what the play was going to be. I could 50 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.639 figure out to play quickly. And he was a running back. 51 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.039 I was linebacker, which meant I, you know, I was. 52 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:04.400 He had the ball and I was going to tackle him, 53 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:09.159 and for whatever reason, I was so hyped up. I 54 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:12.080 just launched myself as a human missile and left my 55 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.080 feet and we were about the same size, and so 56 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.080 I just kind of crumpled off him and he scampered 57 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:21.039 for like a fifty yard touchdown, and I was devastated, 58 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.639 Like like I was, like, you know, walking slow into 59 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:26.960 the locker room. We get in the locker room and 60 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.599 this coach that I had in high school, he was 61 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.719 he's like screaming at the team about you know, telling 62 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.319 me he's like Captain Obvious today, like you see that 63 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.560 guy on TV commercials, Captain Obvious. And he gets to 64 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.360 me and he says, you know, Kaplin, you got to 65 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.039 make that tackle. And I remember looking at him and 66 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.199 thinking to myself, are you kidding me? Like that's the 67 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.800 coaching and development that you're going to give to me, 68 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.240 Like I've got to tackle that person, Like like I like, 69 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.000 I don't know that I have to tackle that person. 70 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:04.240 But what was interesting to me is after the game, 71 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.680 one of the greatest coaches of my life was my dad. 72 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.759 And my dad came up to me and he's like, hey, 73 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.159 you know, how you feeling whatever? And I'm like, oh, Dad, like, 74 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.279 you know, I struggled out there today, and he goes, yeah, 75 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.120 and he said to me, he said, hey, when did 76 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:23.199 you start leaving your feet when you make a tackle? 77 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:25.439 And I'm like, you know, I didn't even realize i'd 78 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.439 noticed that, kind of like after the film or what 79 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.360 have you. And I'm like, I don't know. And he goes, 80 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.480 how much you think that running back weigh And I said, 81 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:34.839 he's probably, like, you know, two hundred and fifteen pounds. 82 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:36.759 And he says, and what are you weighing right now? 83 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:39.480 I said two hundred and fifteen pounds and he said, well, 84 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.240 not when you hit him. You know, you're probably half 85 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.959 your body weight when you hit him. And so that 86 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:51.720 Rachel became for me, the screaming at the scoreboard, and 87 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:54.879 that my coach was actually screaming at the scoreboard. I 88 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:56.959 went back and thought about it. We're in the locker 89 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:01.480 room when we needed coaching and development the most. He 90 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.879 was like screaming at the scoreboard and telling us what 91 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:09.319 the score was and hoping that it would change. And 92 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.360 I remember in that moment thinking, you know what, if 93 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:13.720 I ever become a coach or if I'm in that, 94 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.959 if I'm ever in that situation, I sure hope that 95 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.000 I don't do that. So I've been really sensitive to 96 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:23.160 it throughout the rest of my career, and that screaming 97 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.560 at the scoreboard is a really really good mantra for 98 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.399 all of us to think about when we're in those situations. 99 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:35.079 Right, it's pointing out the obvious. Hey, we're not making 100 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:39.720 our number. Yeah, no, kidding, got it right. And we 101 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.480 have another phrase that we use, John, provide the how. 102 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:46.680 That's how your coach, you manage, you teach, you provide 103 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.720 the how. So if you've got some scoreboard screamers that 104 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:55.839 you're working for, let's we're going to shift this podcast 105 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.800 now to talk about what you can do. 106 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.879 So John, let's go there. 107 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:06.879 So first, probably is being specific outlining where you need 108 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:08.680 how specifically. 109 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.959 Yeah, I mean what we need from our managers is 110 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.879 to provide the what and the how. And if we're 111 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:20.920 really lucky, Rachel, we will work for people over time 112 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:25.399 who will also start with the why. So great leaders, 113 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.560 when I think about it, before they go to the 114 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:30.879 what and how, they start with the why. And so 115 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.199 if you're blessed enough to be working for somebody that 116 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:38.399 starts with the why. You just chaerish it because it's 117 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.480 really really rare. And if you're a leader out there 118 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.199 listening to this podcast, first start with the why. The 119 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:49.240 what and the how become a lot easier and a 120 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.800 lot easier for people to consume. But let's stay on 121 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.759 this topic for a second. Let's talk about the what 122 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.720 and the how. So for me, it's about let your 123 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.879 work for a leader or a manager who's mediocre or 124 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:08.800 just is a bad manager. You still need these certain things. 125 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.360 Let's talk about the what and how. You still need 126 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:16.240 what I call knowledge skills, and this defines your character, 127 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.120 so you know, go get it in your company, ask 128 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.959 questions about it. Let's talk about the knowledge that you need. 129 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.879 I don't care who you're working for. You need the 130 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.879 answer to the four central questions. What problems do we 131 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.720 solve for our customers? How specifically do we solve them, 132 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:35.639 How do we solve them differently or better than anybody else? 133 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.879 And where have we done it before? What skills do 134 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.160 you need? No matter what, you have to learn how 135 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:45.560 to attach to the biggest business issues facing your customers. 136 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:51.079 You have to influence decision criteria with your differentiation, and 137 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.439 you've got to be a voracious qualifier. Well, you've heard 138 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:57.920 us talk about medpick. Go learn medpick. There's a high 139 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:02.160 probability there's somebody in your ORGANI sation that understands medpick. 140 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.839 Go on our website. First of all, I commend you 141 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.439 if you're listening to this podcast, you already get a 142 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.839 lot of these topics we're talking about, regardless of whether 143 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:14.319 your company or your manager is teaching them to you. 144 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:16.439 So we've got a lot of blogs out there, a 145 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.360 lot of posts that we have on medpick. We also 146 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.319 have a lot of information out there on how to 147 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:26.040 attach to big business issues and influencing your decision criteria 148 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:31.079 with your differentiation. So those four essential questions and that differentiation, 149 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.399 you got to get that from people inside your company. 150 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.039 And so we can talk a little bit more about 151 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.440 the people aspect of this, about where you might be 152 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:39.960 able to go. 153 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:46.080 Yeah, and I think you know two things, John. First, 154 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.960 you said, if somebody is providing a why and providing 155 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.080 the how, giving you the why, providing and how telling 156 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:54.840 you how. 157 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:55.159 To do it. 158 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.879 That's a great situation to be in, and you as 159 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:04.000 salesperson need to make sure you're listening and trusting the process. 160 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.200 But if you don't have it, you just ran through 161 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.519 some good things about outlining where you need help. 162 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.960 Yeah. 163 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.799 The other thing you can do, which which I know 164 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.720 that you've probably done in your career too, and I've 165 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:21.440 done it too in a in. 166 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.159 A poor working environment. 167 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:27.759 Is to use the people around me, the ones that 168 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:30.440 are being successful. They may just they may not be 169 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.360 above me, they may be my peers. 170 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:37.679 Yeah, Rachel, I think that there's always when you want 171 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:42.200 to I remember being in Europe and traveling around to 172 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:46.159 all these places, like there's no shortage of great places 173 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.600 to go visit. And so we were living there and 174 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.399 I was my kids were young, and I'm carrying my kids, 175 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.200 I'm carrying bags, I'm carrying all this stuff, and I 176 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.240 had this little mantra in my head that like, if 177 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.120 I wanted to understand if a place was worth going to, 178 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.200 I found somebody coming back from that place. And what 179 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:06.159 that means to me is there's always somebody in a 180 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.440 company that's been to a place that you haven't been to, 181 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:11.799 and you should go ask them what that place is 182 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.840 like and how to get to that place. So that 183 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:18.440 was always a really good reminder for me. And I remember, 184 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:24.159 like my first manager at Xerox right out of college 185 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.679 was a wall wasn't even there most of the time. 186 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.240 So it was really really a strange situation. And I 187 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:34.519 was introduced to this concept early. And I was lucky 188 00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:37.399 because there were great reps in the office and I'm 189 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:40.799 going to give some shout outs here, so great you know, 190 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:45.879 experienced sales leaders and salespeople like Phil Maxim and Dave 191 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.600 Murphy and John Slaw and Cindy Bowler, and I went 192 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:53.519 to them. So my boss wasn't even around and wasn't 193 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:57.279 even in the office and wasn't even having meetings with me. 194 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:01.360 So I was really really lucky to to go to 195 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:04.919 those people and just ask them basic questions about the role. 196 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.080 And they were wonderful. I mean, I think they actually 197 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:11.200 had some empathy for me. They didn't seek me out 198 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.440 and say, hey, you know, your situation sucks, but since 199 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.960 I sought them out, they were ready and willing to 200 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.720 help me. And it was a really really cool experience 201 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.840 for me. And then also I banded together with a 202 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.720 couple of other new reps. At the time I was 203 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:29.919 new and there was a couple of other new reps 204 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.679 and were in the exact same situation as me. Rachel 205 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.039 and Keith Shaw is one of them, and Ron Nelson 206 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:41.200 they're dear friends of mine today, and they were some 207 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:44.720 of the first sales people that I looked around and 208 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.679 I'm like, who else is in a similar situation is me? 209 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.440 And I went and talked to them and I'm like, hey, 210 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.200 are you learning what you think you need to be learning? 211 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.440 Here are you? And so we kind of taught each 212 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.000 other and we did things like we'd meet at like 213 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.480 seven am in the office and we had this thing 214 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.200 like in fronts, and we'd say, Okay, we're going to 215 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.240 go in front today. We're going to go in front 216 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:07.879 of our customers. And how many infronts can you get? 217 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.879 And so it was how many meetings could we get 218 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.279 in a day? And the interesting that happened there Rachel 219 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.919 was Dave Murphy was one of the senior sellers in 220 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.639 the office, and he saw what we were doing, and 221 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:21.399 there was so much energy around what we were doing. 222 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:23.879 We started to compete with each other, and we started 223 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.360 to bet each other about you know, who would be 224 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.320 who would be you know, who would have the most sales, 225 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:33.799 And a senior seller, Rachel came down to our level 226 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:38.399 and got involved in our mix, started coming and meeting 227 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.639 with us at seven in the morning, and he was 228 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:43.600 teaching us. And when I asked him about it years later, 229 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.360 I'm like, why did you come to like our situation? 230 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.480 And he said, I saw the energy that you guys 231 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:53.159 were creating around learning and I needed that energy too. 232 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:55.519 I was more than happy to help you guys with 233 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.879 the information you didn't have, but what you guys absolutely 234 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.799 helped me with was the intensity around the energy of 235 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.159 going out and doing your job. And so it's a 236 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.000 really really cool experience. It's something you know, it's thirty 237 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.559 plus years ago, and it's something I still value today 238 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.840 and have relationships with those people today. 239 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:16.440 That's a great story. 240 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.879 I think many of us can relate to times in 241 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.360 our career when we just had a great camaraderie with 242 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.799 the people who were trying to do the same things 243 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:29.240 we were and working together on that team. And also, 244 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:34.799 you know, going through going through some challenging situations, you 245 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:35.600 might you might. 246 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.440 Say, yeah, yeah, you're kind of there's there's kind of 247 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:40.799 unity in the sucks sometimes, you know what I mean, 248 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:45.919 there's and it builds character for the for the individuals 249 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.360 that are embracing their situation saying hey, like let's do 250 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:50.039 something about it. 251 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:50.600 Pretty cool? 252 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:51.799 Yeah, yeah. 253 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.399 And then the other point to make here, that's sort 254 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.840 of this underlying theme in what you're saying, John, is 255 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.919 that no matter our situations and the in which we 256 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:05.039 work with the managers that are above us, it's important 257 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:08.519 to remember that we own our success. 258 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.440 Yeah. I mean, I don't want to lecture people here. 259 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.000 I really want to give you spirit right now. The 260 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:19.360 excuse department is closed when you're talking about your performance. 261 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:25.120 Don't be a victim of a bad manager or bad leadership. 262 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:30.720 You have to be the hero in the story. And 263 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.840 we've talked about a few ways to do that. But 264 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.559 at the end of the day, you got to ask 265 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.000 yourself right now, what area is in my job or 266 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.720 career am I feeling like a victim? Or you know, 267 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:46.279 if that language is too strong for you, like where 268 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.879 are you feeling wrong? You know, if you think about 269 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.080 your current situation, where do I feel wrong? That's always 270 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.320 meant something to me and then you got to ask yourself, 271 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:59.039 how can I be the hero in the story? Like, 272 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.639 can I go seek out somebody in products to help 273 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.639 me with the answers to the four es central question? 274 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.000 Can I go seek out a senior seller? My dad 275 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.440 used to tell me when I was in a tough situation. 276 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:12.519 It used to say to me, you're going to get 277 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.720 a chance to tell the story. I want you to 278 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:18.159 think about yourself twenty years from now and what's that 279 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.799 story going to be? And it always, it always really 280 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.720 resonated with me. So whatever situation and you're in right now, 281 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.799 we're all going to everybody's got a story. You're going 282 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.279 to get a chance to tell your story. You know, 283 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:34.399 twenty years from now, what's that going to be? Are 284 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.120 you're going to be the hero and the story? Are 285 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:38.000 you going to be the victim and the story? It's 286 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.679 a real, real powerful concept. 287 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:47.440 Yes, you own it, right, we own our success. And 288 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:51.720 you know, as Beyonce said to the left to the left, worst. 289 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:55.919 Case, I love that you can get. 290 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:01.399 Your job pipelined together. Make a change. Yeah, don't stay 291 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.919 in the same situation. Don't scream at your own scoreboard, right, 292 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.480 give yourself a way, a way up a way out. 293 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.279 So, John, when you were in. 294 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.519 These situations or when you knew it was time to 295 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.639 leave whatever company you were working for, how did. 296 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.240 You start putting feelers out there that you were starting. 297 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.000 To look Yeah, really good question. So you know today 298 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.080 it's not hard, you know, to look for other opportunities. 299 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.480 There's more job openings today than there are candidates, so 300 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:35.399 you know, use your networks. And we could have a 301 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.759 whole other conversation about how to look for great opportunity. 302 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.440 As a matter of fact, I think we did a 303 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.200 blog one time, Rachel, about where we talked about what 304 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:46.559 to look for in other companies. You might put that 305 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.879 in the show notes here, but yeah, a lot of 306 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.240 content around that. But for me, I want to make 307 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:57.240 a very strong statement here, don't leave a company or 308 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:02.120 a bad manager. Don't leave a company or a bad manager. 309 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:08.079 Sprint to a great company and a great management team. 310 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:10.960 So there's a lot of people that make the mistake 311 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.000 of saying I'm just going to get out, and they 312 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.440 don't really utilize their experiences good and bad for vetting 313 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.400 any new opportunities. And so like a lot of times 314 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:22.039 I'll say to somebody, they'll say, hey, what do you 315 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.759 think about this company abouba, and I'll tell them about 316 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.319 it and they'll say, you know, you think I should 317 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.359 join that? And I'll say, well, why are you leaving? 318 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.680 Why are you leaving where you're at? And why can't 319 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.160 you get that at where you're at? And it's really 320 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.559 important for you to contemplate that because there are a 321 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:42.240 lot of people that aren't really identifying with what's forcing 322 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.240 them to look for something else, and then they don't 323 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.640 utilize that information to make sure that they vet the 324 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.680 new company. You know, for example, the answers to the 325 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.079 four central questions, how do you influence decision criteria with 326 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.480 your yeah, with your differentiation, like they don't that a 327 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.640 new company. To make sure a new company has that 328 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:07.119 available to them. So in the interview process, ask the 329 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.920 hiring manager about the knowledge skills and therefore the character 330 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:18.480 required for the job, and also ask you know, you 331 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.279 got to also ask the hiring manager for I love 332 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:25.559 this question. Ask the hiring manager for examples on how 333 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:29.319 they coach and develop new reps, not how the company 334 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.200 does it, not what sales development does, how do you 335 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.079 do it? Give me some examples of where you've coached 336 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.680 and develop your reps around what types of common challenges. 337 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.599 The great ones will always be prepared with an answer. 338 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.240 I'd also ask to speak to existing reps that are 339 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.200 working for this hiring manager or working in this culture, 340 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.960 because I want to know if it's a consistent answer. 341 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:58.799 That's such a good point, John, because when we're in 342 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.880 a bad situation in our work environments, we are often 343 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:07.640 we can make that mistake that you talk about, you're 344 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.279 so miserable that you'll just look for anything to get 345 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.640 out of that situation. And you'll take everybody at their 346 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.160 word in the interview, and people have some good talking 347 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.200 points in these interviews. So I love the point that 348 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.559 you just said about getting specific ask the manager what 349 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.960 specifically are you doing to manage your reps, and then 350 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.960 asking people who work for that person. 351 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:32.240 That's a really great tip. Yeah. 352 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.160 Well, as you said, John, we could talk about this 353 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.880 for a while. I have some stories of my own 354 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.480 of work environments I was in. 355 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.599 Yeah, we all have. Everybody's got a story. 356 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.960 Right, yeah, yeah, But let's end it here, go ahead 357 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.039 and wrap us up. I'm going to ask you for 358 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.359 the bottom line for everybody out there listening today. 359 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:53.000 You got it. 360 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.799 You got it, And so look, people listening out there. 361 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.160 I don't want to be cynical on this topic. Great 362 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.720 managers and great leaders are rare. They're not rare because 363 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:09.920 they're bad people. It's just rare because it's hard. It's 364 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:11.839 hard to be a great manager, it's hard to be 365 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.720 a great leader. So just going into that, I'm not 366 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.400 saying accept it, but I'm also saying that, don't be 367 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.640 a victim. You have to own your own success. Be 368 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:28.920 a hero in your story, not the victim. Identified the knowledge, 369 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:33.880 skills and character required for a role and vet a 370 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:41.000 company and a leadership a leadership team on how they 371 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.759 bring that knowledge and scare knowledge and skills and that 372 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.480 character to an organization. How do they do that? The 373 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.480 grass is not greener on the other side. It's not 374 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.839 always greener on the other side. So make sure you're 375 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:59.039 running to something and not away from something. And then 376 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.559 let me just give you a little spirit. The fact 377 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:05.279 that you're listening to this podcast and others Rachel like 378 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.400 Revenue Builders is also a great one with my great 379 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.720 friend and co host John McMahon. And John McMahon wrote 380 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.440 a book called The Qualified Sales Leader, and many of 381 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:21.519 our listeners already know about these things. So if you're 382 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.880 doing these things, you get it. If you haven't heard 383 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.519 of these things before, but you're listening to this podcast, 384 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.039 you're well on your way. You own your own success. 385 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.319 And I commend you for listening to podcasts like this. 386 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.759 It's a great example. Keep doing it. 387 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.039 That's great, John, run to something, not away from something. 388 00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:43.920 Amen. 389 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.440 All right, and thank you for the plug for revenue builders. Also, 390 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.400 you can catch that on all the podcasts. Wherever podcasts 391 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:57.519 are published, we publish new episodes every Thursday. We are 392 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.359 running a product podcast production house up in here, John. 393 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:02.279 Yeah, been here. 394 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.119 I like that. I love it and. 395 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.960 Always thank you to all of you for continuing to 396 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.279 listen to this one, the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. 397 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:11.240 Have a great day. 398 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.960 At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into 399 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.519 elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company 400 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.720 alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the 401 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.920