WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.279 I am pleased as Punch to check in with state 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.280 Senator and gubernatorial candidate Barb Kirkmeyer. We are going to 3 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.839 talk about something that has turned into. 4 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:11.679 A huge problem. 5 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:13.880 And Barb, first of all, welcome back to the show. 6 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:16.879 Well, thank you, it's great to be back on and 7 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:17.679 thanks for having me. 8 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:21.920 So let's talk about HB twenty four Dash ten thirty four. 9 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.760 This was a bill that from the outside looking in, 10 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.160 and you can tell me where I've got it right, 11 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.760 where I've got it wrong, it looks like another well 12 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:33.960 intentioned piece of legislation that has accidentally created a huge 13 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.000 negative consequence. And that negative consequence for my listeners who 14 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:39.119 don't know their bill numbers right off the top of 15 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:42.399 the head, is that we've now seen multiple cases of 16 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:46.600 people that have demonstrated a propensity to be violent being 17 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:50.439 arrested and then being released because they are found unable 18 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.560 to stand trial because of a competency issue. And this 19 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.159 is now a huge problem. So Barb, let's start at 20 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.439 the beginning. Where did this bill come from and were 21 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:02.399 these problems ever discussed? 22 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:06.159 Let's do start there. 23 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:07.959 But first of all, let me just say this, I 24 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.319 did vote for that bill, and I'm going to say why, 25 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:14.319 but it is obvious you're right that it's got it 26 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:17.159 needs to be fixed. There's it did create a huge problem. 27 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:19.400 We thought we were solving another issue that had to 28 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.640 do with the deal with the Constitution. But in this case, 29 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.719 we need to fix this bill. And I very frankly 30 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.799 believe that the governor should call for a special session, 31 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:33.680 that we should fix it sooner rather than later. And 32 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:35.680 I'm concerned that he won't want to do that. I 33 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.640 know the remembers folks that had asked to have this 34 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.359 s get fixed in the special session we had in AUGUSTA. 35 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.799 Obviously it did not get on the call, but we 36 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:46.760 need to get it fixed sooner rather than later, because 37 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:50.480 you're right what happened was the bill, and we talked 38 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.959 about this in our caucus as well. But this bill 39 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:57.640 started actually with a task force who was putting together 40 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.719 recommendations for what's called an introim commit so a committee 41 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.280 that meets when we're not in session and they go 42 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.480 through and have more time to really go in depth 43 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:06.319 and look at bills and. 44 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:07.319 See what's made it there. 45 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.080 And so it came out of that infram committee and 46 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.039 it was especially built as a necessary fix for a 47 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:18.199 constitutional deficiency. In other words, way back, like I think 48 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.879 it was nineteen seventy two, but back in the nineteen seventies, 49 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:25.520 the Supreme Court had made it very clear that individuals 50 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.479 that are deemed incompetent simply cannot just be left in jail. 51 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:31.319 It violates the Constitution. 52 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:35.120 Do process in the constitution, And you know that's been out. 53 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:35.680 There for a while. 54 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:39.879 So we we passed this bill thinking that we were 55 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.639 addressing the constitutional concerns, looking at the length of time, 56 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:46.240 the reasonable amount of time that an individual could be 57 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:48.919 staying in there. And quite honestly, when we talked about 58 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.520 this billing and in our Republican caucus and when I 59 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:53.560 mean we all voted for it on the floor in 60 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.639 the Senate, you know, on third reading, we talked about 61 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.520 that it was really they're either going to be in 62 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.719 a correction facility or they're going to be in a 63 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:06.080 mental institute institution, right, So it wasn't like they should 64 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.240 be letting go or not, you know, getting back out. 65 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:11.319 On the streets. So that's where we've got a problem. 66 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.599 I've talked with, you know, a few district attorneys. 67 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:16.520 I've talked with obviously, the sheriff. 68 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:19.360 Of my sheriff of Well County, who rightly so is 69 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:21.680 you know, ringing the alarm bell and thank you for 70 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:26.240 doing that, And so, you know, we think we can 71 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.280 come up with a fix. I've spoken with one of 72 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.759 the prime sponsors and she's been working with the District 73 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.919 Attorneys Association, the disability groups, victims groups, and others as well, 74 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.639 and we've pledged to kind of try and come together 75 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.199 to see if we can come up with a fix. 76 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:43.840 But in the meantime, we really just need to have 77 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.479 the governor call special session and then let's get the 78 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:49.840 bill fixed. But that won't solve all the issue is 79 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.080 part of the other problem. And I've talked about this 80 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:54.680 in a couple of different places, but you know, it's 81 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.039 one thing to try and address the constitutional concerns. 82 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:57.680 Now, we need to. 83 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.400 Fix this hole it's in this bill. Fix this flawed 84 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.520 law that's letting people go. 85 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:04.840 But the other problem is the next phase of this. 86 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:06.800 And as I was talking to, like, for example, some 87 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:10.840 of the district's attorneys like, is the institutions that we 88 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:11.599 have in the state. 89 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.280 We have about five hundred beds in the state. 90 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:16.839 Four hundred of them are for those that are criminally 91 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:17.959 Justice involved. 92 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:19.839 The others are for civil of. 93 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.519 People who are involved in civil cases, and it's for 94 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.759 people who are either mentally ill or developmentally disabled. And 95 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:29.959 so what has been going on in the courts is 96 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.879 instead of the defense having the burden to say that 97 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:39.800 they are not restorable, in other words, they're incompetent, it's 98 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:42.480 been put on the prosecution to have to prove that 99 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.240 they are not competent. So again, I think there's a 100 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:49.240 fixer that we can come up with. But where do 101 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:52.759 we put them? These beds are full. We've got anywhere 102 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:56.519 from three hundred and sixty plus bed waiting list to 103 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:58.160 get into these institutions. 104 00:04:58.480 --> 00:04:59.560 It's very expensive. 105 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.879 And you know, in our budget situation, I know last 106 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:06.600 year in the budget the Joint Budget Committee, we added 107 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:11.000 additional dollars to this area. Quite frankly, not enough, not enough. 108 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.319 We're going to have to prioritize this area, you know. 109 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.560 And so I tell folks, you know, when you want 110 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.560 to keep voting against the budget, you're also voting against 111 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.560 things like this about you know, increasing bedspace. You're voting 112 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.199 against the Department of Corrections, You're voting against judicial getting funding. 113 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.360 It's like, we have to fund these things and we're 114 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.399 going to have to find the money for it, and 115 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.680 it's it'll be tough. I mean, from my perspective, it's 116 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.319 a must have. It's not a pet project of any kind. 117 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:38.800 This is a must have that we have to do. 118 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.560 But we got to fix the first problem first, and 119 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:44.360 that's fixing the flaw in the in the bill, in 120 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.879 the law, and the governor needs to call special session. 121 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:48.759 Okay, let's talk about the second part of this, because 122 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:50.639 the first part seems like a no brainer, right. 123 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:51.680 That I don't understand. 124 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.959 I think so anyone could have any issue was saying 125 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.639 we need to make sure the dangerous people are not 126 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.319 getting released back onto the streets. It does seem to 127 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:04.000 me that there's something wrong, and you sort of referenced it. 128 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:08.240 There's something wrong with the way people are declared unable 129 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.759 to stand trial or or not competent to stand trial. 130 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.279 There seems to be something there that mechanism, because once 131 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.639 someone is determined to be unable to stand trial because 132 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:22.000 of competency, it seems like it's far too hard to 133 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:23.800 get them to a point. Let and I'm going to 134 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:27.240 use the example of Ephraim oh gosh, what's his last name? 135 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:29.639 I can't remember his last name. The guy who was 136 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.519 just Collins. It's from something even from something from d 137 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.560 whatever it is, but just getting that guy, because that 138 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:39.639 guy went on TV with CBS four and is like, 139 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:42.439 I'm not even getting a chance to plead my case. 140 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.839 And Sheriff Steve Reem said on my show that from 141 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.759 his interactions, this guy does not meet the classic standard 142 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.199 that most people would think of as someone like and 143 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.399 I'm going to use Robert Deer, the guy who's been 144 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.759 accused of shooting up the Planned parenthood in Colorado Springs. 145 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.680 He's been incarcerated since twenty six teen, because he is 146 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:05.439 completely detached from reality, right, Like I think most people 147 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.879 think when you hear not competent to stand trial, you're 148 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:12.800 thinking someone with serious mental illness instead of they just 149 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.360 don't seem to understand that they're now in the judicial system, 150 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.279 which the second case feels that way. 151 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.480 Does that make sense, Yes, it does. 152 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:22.839 So there's a difference between being you know, a mental 153 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.199 illness and being able to be treatable. And then there's 154 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:29.079 also the developmentally disabled, So someone with like a very 155 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:31.680 low IQ, right, like, you know, I don't know what 156 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:33.800 this individual in Wild County with our IQ is, but 157 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:35.879 when I talked to the sheriff, it sounds like he's 158 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:39.759 got a very low IQ and they're developmentally disabled, right, 159 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:41.759 and so that's. 160 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:42.439 That's the difference. 161 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.959 But like I said, when I was talking with different 162 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:50.680 district attorneys, their comment was, look, we need to kind 163 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:54.399 of flip the burden here and habits where the presumption 164 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.720 needs to be reversed that defendants should have to demonstrate 165 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:02.199 competency or the defense should have to demonstrate compency rather 166 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:06.959 than forcing prosecutors to prove incompetence. And that's causing an issue. 167 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:09.480 And I think that's where we can fix the law. 168 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.439 But the next question is then where do they go? 169 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:13.000 Right? 170 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.959 You know, certainly if they're having a lesser crime, like 171 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.279 if it was you know, shoplifting. 172 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.879 Or a non violent but not just some left or. 173 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:25.079 Lesser crime that's more of a misdemeanor type thing, you know, 174 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:28.759 there are probably other suitable places for them to go 175 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.279 to get resources and services, especially if it's mental illness. 176 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:35.919 But if it is developmentally. 177 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.080 Disabled and they just aren't capable of understanding, we're going 178 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:41.600 to need to find a location for them. But we 179 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.960 can't just be letting them out on the streets, especially 180 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:47.679 if they are violent, you know, and have a very 181 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.080 low IQ kind of thing. And that's what's going on here. 182 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.480 So we're going to have to figure out how to increase. 183 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:54.039 The number of beds. 184 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:57.919 And you know that we have in these institutions and 185 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.960 probably the ones either in Fort Logan are Pueblo. I mean, 186 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:02.879 that's where we have our two institutions in the state 187 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:03.559 of Colorado. 188 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:05.200 And it's very expensive. 189 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.039 And I will tell you right now we're under a 190 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.039 consent to cree because of that waiting list we already have, 191 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:14.279 so we're already paying out money to essentially stay out 192 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.080 of compliance, which I don't like. And we've been trying 193 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.159 to figure this out at the Joint Budget Committee. But 194 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.639 at the same time, we don't have the we haven't 195 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:23.639 been a well find the funding. 196 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:25.039 We have a workforce shortage. 197 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.080 I mean, we don't have people who want to work there, 198 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:29.759 right and I wouldn't either, quite frankly. 199 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:32.279 But so that's part of the other issue is trying 200 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.320 to figure out especially after COVID. 201 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:38.080 I mean, our issue got exasperated with COVID because of 202 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:42.519 you know, people being furloughed and being left not at 203 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:44.279 the state, not being furloughed at the state. But like 204 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:48.799 you know, these types of medical and behavior health providers, 205 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.759 you know, things just got moved around and got switched around, 206 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:54.080 and now things have gotten a lot more expensive. It's 207 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.240 more expensive to hire people we contract out with these beds, 208 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.120 you know, to get the right workforce there. But it 209 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.200 it is extremely difficult to do that. And that's the 210 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.919 next step. And by no means trying to make any 211 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:06.720 kind of excuse. 212 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:08.360 We have got to fix this. 213 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:13.159 We cannot let, you know, violent criminals just because they're 214 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.399 developmentally disabled out on the streets. 215 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:17.679 We've got to figure out where they go. And we 216 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:19.159 also have to follow our constitution. 217 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.639 Amen to that. Now, let me ask this question to 218 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.919 the point that Colorado, and it's not just Colorado, okay. 219 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:30.200 We know back in the you know, fifties, sixties, and seventies, 220 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.320 of the nineteen hundreds. Back in the nineteen hundreds, as 221 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.159 the kids today say, we had a big emptying out 222 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.080 of mental institutions of all kinds, state, federal, everybody kind 223 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.799 of said, oh, we've got all these new medications and 224 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:43.720 we're going to just give people medications and they're going 225 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.159 to be okay in the community. The reality is is 226 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.240 that we have underinvested for decades, right, we have underinvested, 227 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:54.639 and now we've got this situation, which is criminal situations, 228 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:57.759 but we also have on the streets of our cities 229 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:02.799 here in Colorado evidence of a significant population of people 230 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:06.240 with severe mental illness. They are self medicated with. 231 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.159 Drugs and alcohol. 232 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.080 So we need to be having a conversation not just 233 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.399 about the criminal element, but we need to be having 234 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:14.639 a conversation about what are we going to do in 235 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:19.559 a meaningful way to help people who are stuck in 236 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:23.039 the throes of addiction have an opportunity to come out 237 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.039 of that addiction and get help for that mental illness 238 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.679 while also being protected in an environment that protects themselves 239 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:32.039 and the general public. 240 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:35.840 You're exactly right. 241 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.240 And part of the issue is, and I've been having 242 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.519 this struggle with this as well, is we created a 243 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:44.240 behavior Health Administration, and this is where we were supposed 244 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.480 to be combining things from all these departments and creating 245 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:49.960 this new administration that was going to figure out this 246 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:53.080 system of care and how do we get behavioral health. 247 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:53.840 Services to folks. 248 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:55.960 I quite frankly don't really know what our return on 249 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.840 investment has been for the over billion of dollars that 250 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:02.159 we have put into this administration, into this department, and 251 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.159 I think there needs to be some discussions there about 252 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:07.519 where are we really putting the funds and how do 253 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:09.960 we fix how do we fix this issue? I mean, 254 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:11.559 maybe we need to be pulling some of those funds 255 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.279 over to assist with the issue with the beds that 256 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.320 we have in our institutions where we have a lack 257 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:18.600 of beds, I mean, because we do not we do 258 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:20.799 not want to get into the situation that we were 259 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.200 in with our juvenile detention facilities and beds, where we 260 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:27.320 literally had a cap on the number of beds that 261 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.519 we could have, and just this year we finally were 262 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.360 able to get that cap increase because what was happening 263 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.519 is we were to put someone into that situation, into 264 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.600 that bed, we were letting someone else go. 265 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.279 And we do not want to be in that situation either. 266 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:45.080 So we are literally, quite literally going to have to 267 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.559 sit down and get this figured out. Like I said, 268 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.679 the easiest part, and I'm not going to say it's 269 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.399 really easy, but the easiest part of this is fixing 270 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.600 the law. The most difficult, difficult part is I don't 271 00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:59.759 even think it's finding the funding. I think it's finding 272 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:03.279 the workforce to increase the number of beds that we 273 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.039 have in our institutions so that we can get that 274 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:10.080 wait list down. I know the woman who runs this office, 275 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:14.080 she has worked for district attorneys. She understands what the 276 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.919 situation is. And if we don't get it down, you know, 277 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:19.679 quite frankly, we just get posed with another lawsuit, which 278 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:20.919 doesn't do any good. 279 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:23.799 We know what the problem is. We're trying to fix it. 280 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:25.480 Another lawsuit just doesn't happen. 281 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.039 But you know, sometimes you just can't get those acl 282 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.600 you guys to suffer the loss. But you know, we've 283 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.480 got to. We've just got to get under control, and 284 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.960 we've got to. We will we can find the funding. 285 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.200 I know we will go and work to find the 286 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.919 funding because this is a must have, a must fund. 287 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.080 It's that workforce shortage is what is scaring me. And 288 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.159 I don't know where we find that well. 289 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.320 I mean this is when when I had then candidate 290 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.320 Mayor Mike Johnson now Mayor Mike Johnston on the show, 291 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.159 and he was talking about creating all these micro communities 292 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.559 and hotels and all of this stuff for homeless people. 293 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.000 My number one question for him was who is going 294 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:04.720 to work there? Where are you going to find the staff? 295 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:07.159 Where are you going to find the trained staff? This 296 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.840 is not exactly you can't just PLoP a new high 297 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.320 school graduate into this position. These are people that have 298 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:15.480 to be highly trained. They have to understand how to 299 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.480 deal with mentally ill people that could be violent. 300 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:20.080 I mean, I'm with you on this. 301 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.320 I think that this is a huge, huge issue and 302 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.519 one that I fear, and I'm going to be honest, 303 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.720 I fear that nothing significant is going to happen until 304 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.360 someone's family member gets murdered or someone gets, you know, 305 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.320 attacked on the streets by someone who should not have 306 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.720 been out. We've already seen some high profile cases of this, 307 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.480 but maybe the wrong people are being attacked maybe, you know. 308 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.200 I don't wish that on anyone, to be clear, but 309 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.919 I really worry that we're going to let this go 310 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.200 and let this go and let this go, and someone's 311 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:52.240 going to die because of it. 312 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.919 Well, and I hope and pray that does not happen. 313 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:58.559 And I know you don't want it to happen either. 314 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.080 I don't think anyone does. And you're right, I think 315 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.000 one of the other things, though, maybe one of the 316 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.639 fixes that we can do in the law is when 317 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.240 this was determined back again, I think I know it 318 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.679 was back in the seventies that you can't just leave 319 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.519 people sit in jail. There has to be a reasonable standard, 320 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.639 a reasonable amount of time, So you can't just leave 321 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:18.240 them there in a correctional facility, either in a county 322 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:23.279 jail or in a state correctional facility indefinitely. But again, 323 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.639 I think if one, if we go back and look 324 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.240 at what the district attorneys are saying, where we you know, 325 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.440 put the burden onto the defense that we presume people 326 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:39.240 are restorable until the defense says no, this individual is not. 327 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:40.360 That would help. 328 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:44.000 If we've tried some other things with you know, ensuring 329 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.799 that we can get legal guardians appointed. But we also 330 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.240 started another program it's called the Bridges program, and I 331 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:51.639 don't know how successful it is. 332 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:53.080 We started in the last couple of. 333 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.840 Years as well, but it's like a court appointed individual 334 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.519 that would be on every case like this to ensure 335 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.759 that these individuals are one getting the services that they 336 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.519 need and getting place and that we find placements for it. 337 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.960 But I think the other part of the law that 338 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.080 maybe we need to look at and probably. 339 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:12.799 Change is the amount of days. 340 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.799 You know, the Supreme Court didn't say in their rulings 341 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.000 back in the seventies that it had to be sixty 342 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:20.279 days or ninety days or one hundred and you know, 343 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.559 twenty days or anything of that nature. They just said 344 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:25.080 it needs to be a reasonable time frame, and maybe 345 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.360 we need to redefine what reasonable time frame is as well. 346 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:30.960 I don't know. I am not an attorney. 347 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.519 That's why I talked to the district attorneys a lot, 348 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.440 and would talk to my county attorney a lot all 349 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:36.840 the time. 350 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:39.240 But I think maybe that's. 351 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.799 Another area where we can help fix this law and 352 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.000 maybe start at least giving us a little bit more 353 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:46.919 time to figure out how we find the funding and 354 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.480 then where do we get the workforce from. 355 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.720 I mean, that's part. It's going to increase the funding. 356 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:53.159 And you know, again I'm not trying to shrink my 357 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:54.080 responsibility here. 358 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:55.759 We're going to have to go find it. That's just 359 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:56.440 all there is to it. 360 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:59.000 Well, I'm speaking with Senator Barb kirk State Senator Barb 361 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.559 Kirkmeyer and given at real candidate. A lot of people 362 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.799 on the tech signe are saying, how did you guys 363 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:05.680 not see this problem coming. 364 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:07.160 How when you passed. 365 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.079 The bill, did nobody go, hey, we could let some 366 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.000 dangerous people out of jailed. Was that never a consideration? 367 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.440 I'm telling you in all the conversations I had, now, 368 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:20.400 I was not in the Interim committee. I didn't you know, 369 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.960 I didn't see all of the task force recommendations. I'm 370 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.400 not on the Judiciary committee that I think this is. 371 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:26.920 That's the committee that it went through. 372 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:27.960 On the Senate side. 373 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.240 I do know we had conversations about this in our 374 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.519 Republican caucus, and that's that was not the discussion. It 375 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:35.920 was like, we need to find what a reasonable timeframe is. 376 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.359 We need to ensure that we are adhering to the Constitution, 377 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.000 because again, if we're leaving these individuals, whether it's mental 378 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:46.960 illness or developmentally disabled folks in our correctional facilities, it 379 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.720 just keeps setting us up for more lawsuits and that's 380 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:51.119 not solving the problem either. 381 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:53.279 So no, we did not. 382 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.400 I mean, at no point did I hear anybody have 383 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:57.640 that kind of discussion. 384 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.079 Doesn't mean it didn't happen. 385 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:00.960 It just means I'm telling you I was not a 386 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.240 part of that conversation. And maybe it happened in committee. 387 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.039 I'm not sure. I just know on the Senate floor 388 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:11.759 it passed unanimously. So I'm thinking, you know, we're all 389 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.640 thinking the same thing that we are putting in what 390 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.160 we believe to be a necessary fixed for constitutional deficiency. 391 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:23.279 But clearly the application of this law has clearly exasperated 392 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.079 Colorado's public safety issues that we have. And you know, 393 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.799 I'm just going to sit again. The governor needs to 394 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.359 call a special session. This is not one of those 395 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.039 things that can wait until January or February for us 396 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.480 to go in and get in session and fix the law. 397 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:40.440 I mean, my gosh, we are not back in session 398 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:41.720 till the middle of January. 399 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.279 It takes at least three days and then another few 400 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:47.640 days to get things signed. I mean, at a minimum, 401 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.920