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Speaker 1: Oh hi, it's your Internet Uncle Ali Ward back with
Speaker 1: facts and science and stories and the second ever episode
Speaker 1: of Somologies, which is a new spin off of Quick
Speaker 1: Distilled Ologies episodes that we've shrunk down and de filthed
Speaker 1: so you can listen in a classroom or on a
Speaker 1: road trip with your in laws. I don't know what
Speaker 1: your in laws vibes are, but maybe you need a
Speaker 1: clean version. Also, if you want the full version of
Speaker 1: this episode, it's linked in the show notes, and there
Speaker 1: are also bleeped full versions available, but smologies are small,
Speaker 1: and they'll show up right in this feed every other
Speaker 1: Thursday now. As usual, regular brand new full length episodes
Speaker 1: of Ologies come out on Tuesdays. We're just launching this
Speaker 1: double on a Tuesday because I got married to your
Speaker 1: pod mom and Jared Sleeper last Saturday, and I'm taking
Speaker 1: this week off to go see family in Montana, my
Speaker 1: first vacation in nine years. I'm very excited. Okay, this
Speaker 1: intro is already too long. Let's get to fossils, Dino digs,
Speaker 1: Bronto sources, Titanosauri, flim flam, Jurassic Park, what does a
Speaker 1: dinosaur taste like? Museum secrets, and more in this episode
Speaker 1: two of Smologies with paleontologist Michael Hibib Smology.
Speaker 3: Blogies smologies.
Speaker 1: Small jeez. Now you study movement of animals, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of how you got into paleontology. What is is
Speaker 1: paleontology only about fossils or is it just about living
Speaker 1: things of that era?
Speaker 4: So paleontology it doesn't necessarily have to be about fossils,
Speaker 4: but it historically it kind of was. It was considered
Speaker 4: to be the study of fossils essentially, although it more
Speaker 4: literally is just the study of life in the past,
Speaker 4: and you mostly do that through fossils. I'm one of
Speaker 4: those paleontologists who does play a fossils.
Speaker 1: Before we go much further, let's define super quick what
Speaker 1: a fossil actually is. I didn't know this until just now.
Speaker 1: Fossils are any trace or remains like a cast or
Speaker 1: an impression or a substitution with rock, or even the
Speaker 1: thing itself of something that was once alive. They have
Speaker 1: to be at least ten thousand years old to be
Speaker 1: considered a fossil. I don't know what they're called if
Speaker 1: they're younger than that, to be honest. And the word
Speaker 1: fossil comes from the Latin for obtained by digging, which
Speaker 1: is that kind of adorable picture people digging around being
Speaker 1: like I obtained this by digging. It's a fossil. What
Speaker 1: amount of time do you spend in the field as
Speaker 1: a paleontologist, and how much of that is back in
Speaker 1: a lab or looking at spreadsheets or measuring fossil densities
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 4: So in terms of the amount of time, like how
Speaker 4: much of the year I'm in the field, it's a
Speaker 4: good chunk of the summer. That's that's usually when I
Speaker 4: do all my field work, So basically July and August
Speaker 4: a good bit of it, I'll be in the field,
Speaker 4: mostly New Mexico.
Speaker 1: Was that a titanosaur?
Speaker 4: That's the Titanosaur project? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Can you can you reveal what you're working on with that?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 4: Obviously you actually basically whatever you find, it's not like
Speaker 4: you went out there and we're gonna find its. Actually
Speaker 4: we kind of went out there going I really kind
Speaker 4: of hope we don't find a titanosaur because really well,
Speaker 4: I mean not we were being BLib about it, which
Speaker 4: is what makes it funny, but like there was a
Speaker 4: part of us it was like, I really hope we
Speaker 4: won't find things super huge because then we feel compelled
Speaker 4: to excavate it and it's going to take forever. And
Speaker 4: of course what we found was two individuals of the
Speaker 4: group includes the largest land animals of all time. In fact,
Speaker 4: our one of our specimens may be the largest dinosaur
Speaker 4: from North America. That's huge. Literally, Yeah, So it's just
Speaker 4: I mean, the you know, these are animals that a
Speaker 4: mid sized titanosaur is like thirty tons plush, and a
Speaker 4: big one's like sixty tons plus how many feet the
Speaker 4: big guys you're looking at one hundred feet ish?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 1: How many times bigger than an elephant? Are these guys big?
Speaker 4: A big bull African elephant, which would be the largest
Speaker 4: living land animal. I think the record is like six
Speaker 4: point two tons or something that really averages more like
Speaker 4: five and change. Okay, So if a big titanosaur is
Speaker 4: regularly hitting sixty, that's twelve times.
Speaker 1: So these titanosaurs are like if twelve elephants stacked under
Speaker 1: one giant overcoat and pretended to be a person. So
Speaker 1: his work is kind of a big deal in every
Speaker 1: way possible.
Speaker 4: Who gets to name it, Well, that depends. We don't
Speaker 4: know whether or not we will be naming it because
Speaker 4: we don't know if it's a new species yet or not.
Speaker 4: There is a type of titanosaur from North America that
Speaker 4: is named just one, which is interesting because the rest
Speaker 4: of the world there's a ton of these things, like
Speaker 4: like what are the hot groups of dinosaurs to work
Speaker 4: on these days? Like we went from not knowing much
Speaker 4: about them twenty years ago, that's only this has been
Speaker 4: this explosion.
Speaker 1: So sauropods are those really long necked, kind of round
Speaker 1: bellied plant munch in cutie. Even if you don't get
Speaker 1: to name the species, you get to actually be like
Speaker 1: this one's Gary or whatever.
Speaker 4: Oh sure, so yes, so you can get nicknames. So yeah,
Speaker 4: so they're naming process. So if this thing's up being
Speaker 4: a new species, we will give a new technical name
Speaker 4: in a publication and I'll be myself and my colleagues
Speaker 4: will name it. But in terms of nicknames, in terms
Speaker 4: of nicknames, those kind of just happen organically, okay, and
Speaker 4: archie titanosaurs actually have nicknames. Oh whatever, they are Daisy
Speaker 4: and Duke. A look at that, and it's usually the
Speaker 4: students didn't naming these things.
Speaker 1: Where did they come up with Daisi and dukes? It's
Speaker 1: not It has nothing to do with shorts, does it?
Speaker 1: Like Daisy dukes? Daisy dukes, for those unfamiliar, are a
Speaker 1: type of micropant fashioned from truncated denim trousers. They are
Speaker 1: beneficial in warm climates. So when might Daisy and Duke
Speaker 1: make their museum debut, please put shorts on them. Here's
Speaker 1: the deal with museums. It's actually like the shoe department
Speaker 1: at J. C. Penny. What you see on the floor
Speaker 1: is a representative fraction of what they got in the back.
Speaker 1: So you may see a cool dinosaur or like a
Speaker 1: weird old knife or a clay jug. But the museum
Speaker 1: has literally millions of specimens on site archived for research.
Speaker 1: The only County natural history museum, for example, has thirty
Speaker 1: five million artifacts in storage. How much money does it
Speaker 1: cost to dig up a dinosaur? This is the most
Speaker 1: fun game I've ever played.
Speaker 4: Let's let's have fun with this. How long? How much
Speaker 4: do you think a field season for us costs?
Speaker 1: Oh? Gosh, Well, it depends on if you have interns.
Speaker 4: We have a combination of paid employees for the museum
Speaker 4: as well as volunteers. Okay, let's just look at just
Speaker 4: the field season. Let's assume that salaries for the museum
Speaker 4: employees is part of their yearly bark and everything. So
Speaker 4: just the additional money for the supplies, the trucks to
Speaker 4: get people out there, to feed them and keep them safe,
Speaker 4: make the jackets, get transport the specimens.
Speaker 1: I would say eight hundred thousand dollars, four million dollars,
Speaker 1: a billion dollars.
Speaker 4: I' less than ten thousand year.
Speaker 1: You're kidding me?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So you can't you could buy
Speaker 1: a Toyota camri used or a dinosaur expedition.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 1: What kind of a world is this? I haven't Why
Speaker 1: haven't we all done this? Side note? I got married
Speaker 1: last weekend and I can tell you should have folded
Speaker 1: it in with a dig. But yes, that's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite ologies facts. Maybe ever. Oh, speaking of faves,
Speaker 1: So do you have a favorite dinosaur?
Speaker 4: Do I have a favorite dinosaur? Yes? I have a
Speaker 4: couple of favorite dinosaurs, depending on what kind of favoritism.
Speaker 4: Right one has in mind?
Speaker 1: The one that really has a place in your heart, Like,
Speaker 1: you know which one it is? There's one that you
Speaker 1: really like the most.
Speaker 4: Sure so growing up? So the one that makes me think,
Speaker 4: ah childhood is s thingus okay, which is very similar
Speaker 4: to Velociraptor of Draassic Park fame. Incidentally, the real velociraptor
Speaker 4: was about coyote sized and feathered, not giant and scaly.
Speaker 1: Dinoh enthusiasts love to note that the velociraptors in Jurassic
Speaker 1: Park were not historically Accurateicus, which means terrible Law was
Speaker 1: much closer to what was portrayed as a velociraptor, and
Speaker 1: I thought this was just someone sleeping on the job,
Speaker 1: but the confusion is said to have originated Fromicus originally
Speaker 1: being labeled as a subspecies of velociraptors. Either way, these
Speaker 1: things should have had feathers. So imagine a giant claude
Speaker 1: bird wanting to murder you. It's upsetting. It's not as
Speaker 1: upsetting to some people, though, as a movie getting facts wrong.
Speaker 4: Some of them are. I've seen some people get really
Speaker 4: upset about it. I just I don't get that upset
Speaker 4: about it. But yeah, I mean, it's essentially if they're
Speaker 4: sentially fancy creatures. Buticus was particularly interested. It was particularly
Speaker 4: important historically because it was one of the first dinosaurs
Speaker 4: that was specifically used in some of the what would
Speaker 4: some of the original hypotheses about the origes of birds
Speaker 4: and specially being dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: So, by the way, all birds are technically dinosaurs. And
Speaker 1: that may be a thing that you've accepted and you've
Speaker 1: processed in your heart or mind, but it still weirs me.
Speaker 4: Out Now these days, I might very well say and
Speaker 4: have said that my favorite might be changu.
Speaker 1: Raptor changa raptor. Now, who what a weird thing? First off,
Speaker 1: it's C. H. A n G y u raptor. To
Speaker 1: find it Google it. It took me a while. So
Speaker 1: this was a non bird flying dinosaur. It has four wings,
Speaker 1: four wings, and a tail that was like a foot long,
Speaker 1: big claws and.
Speaker 4: Teeth, which is not something you hear a lot about. Now.
Speaker 1: Now, Michael was on the team that first analyzed and
Speaker 1: published the paper naming this a new species, so you know, so.
Speaker 4: That one has a special place in my heart for
Speaker 4: that reason.
Speaker 1: Now, a little background on this. A paleontologist was trolling
Speaker 1: some amber markets in me and mar and saw this
Speaker 1: apricot sized piece of plant resin for sale. Is like
Speaker 1: a jewelry piece whatever the seller said there was like
Speaker 1: maybe a plant stuck in it. Yeah, no, it was
Speaker 1: actually a whole baby dinosaur tail feathered like the best
Speaker 1: episode of Antiques Roadshow ever. They named it Eva. Eva
Speaker 1: is ninety nine million years old and probably got her
Speaker 1: tail stuck in tree sap and died there, which is
Speaker 1: currently making want to cry. So rip little feathered buddy,
Speaker 1: and thank you for not ending up as a random
Speaker 1: chunky pendant.
Speaker 4: It's a really neat find. It is the beginning of
Speaker 4: what'll probably you'll be seeing more more things like that
Speaker 4: in the future, are we going to be cloning anything. No,
Speaker 4: you're not going to be cloning anything from this because
Speaker 4: while it while it more or less looks exactly like
Speaker 4: it just was preserved yesterday because the soft tissue is there. Wow,
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that them like, their structure is completely unaltered.
Speaker 4: And DNA has a reasonably short half life, so you
Speaker 4: would just get doubled a gook out. You get DNA,
Speaker 4: but not it wouldn't mean anything. DNA doesn't have to
Speaker 4: break down much, and it would be very broken down
Speaker 4: in the stuff. You might not even get any but
Speaker 4: you might be able to get a small amount, but
Speaker 4: it wouldn't matter. DNA becomes incomprehensible very quickly because it
Speaker 4: only has a four letter alphabet. So if you only
Speaker 4: have four letters in your alphabet, your words, basically if
Speaker 4: you will have to be very lengthy. Right, So if
Speaker 4: you break them even a few times, it means nothing.
Speaker 1: So we can't blue bloop resurrect the Brontosaurus with fragments
Speaker 1: of a broken code. But wait, what is going on
Speaker 1: with Bronosaurus? What's the hot goss.
Speaker 4: On Bronosaurus aronosaurs? So so the short answer is Bronosaurus
Speaker 4: is a valid name. Again. The original material that was
Speaker 4: named brought Tosaurus was then later found that have been
Speaker 4: comprised of multiple animals of different species whoops. And so
Speaker 4: it was decided that brought the Saurus was not a
Speaker 4: valid name because well, it's all known stuff. You can't
Speaker 4: combine them and say that's a new animal.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Researchers recently went through that material again with better knowl
Speaker 4: and more data than we now have, because over time
Speaker 4: we get better and better knowledge of what's out there.
Speaker 4: The cross compared a bunch of stuff and what they
Speaker 4: found was that, yes, a lot of that material was
Speaker 4: already known species, but some of it didn't match anything
Speaker 4: and therefore was in fact new. So and that means
Speaker 4: the original name holds.
Speaker 1: That's some good breaking news on the bronosaurus front.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is why.
Speaker 1: It's always a good idea to ask smart people seemingly
Speaker 1: silly questions. Right now, the more the merrier. Also, before
Speaker 1: we get to your questions, we will be donating to
Speaker 1: a related charity, and this week it's going to the
Speaker 1: Naturalistory Museum of La County, one of my favorite places
Speaker 1: in the world. Definitely stop in and wander next time
Speaker 1: you're near downtown, so a donation was made possible by
Speaker 1: some sponsors of the get value.
Speaker 2: You can't argue with Optesco with their amazing club card prices.
Speaker 2: Serve up something special with our finest mail deal for
Speaker 2: two starring one main two sites and deserved for only
Speaker 2: sixteen yeu row like succulent board be approved by I
Speaker 2: were shining to strip looid steaks with pepper corn butter
Speaker 2: or delicious firous chicken parmegama served with creamy potato gretam
Speaker 2: under a mix of rainbow root vegetables and enjoy Goozillionaire
Speaker 2: or Soldier caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop in
Speaker 2: store or online Tesco. Every little helps available to most stores,
Speaker 2: prices very in express.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, you're listener questions. I have some rapid fire
Speaker 1: questions for you for listeners. David wants to know any
Speaker 1: new thoughts on what color dinosaurs were, any.
Speaker 4: New thoughts of n It depends on how new you're
Speaker 4: looking at. But within the last handful of years, yes,
Speaker 4: there was a significant breakthrough in It's still a little
Speaker 4: bit controversial, but seems to be accurate in looking at
Speaker 4: the impressions of feathers in particular, because feathers store their pigments,
Speaker 4: some of their pigments in these little kind of little
Speaker 4: capsules basically that do preserve in some of these fossils.
Speaker 4: And these really well preserved fossils. You need a microscope
Speaker 4: to see them, but they are there. They're called milanosomes,
Speaker 4: and they store melanin or melanin's ahould say, which is
Speaker 4: a good family of different pigments. And of course the
Speaker 4: original pigment isn't in them anymore, but the shape and
Speaker 4: size of the blanosome tells you what kind of melanin
Speaker 4: it had in it. So they can use microscopy, advanced
Speaker 4: microssoeen imaging techniques to on those feathers to determine where
Speaker 4: certain melanins were located.
Speaker 1: Ooh, what is microscopy. It's just looking at things with
Speaker 1: a microscope. Okay.
Speaker 4: That means they can get some of the blacks, grays,
Speaker 4: dark browns, and reddish browns, but they can't get other colors.
Speaker 4: So we have some idea that some of these things,
Speaker 4: these had bold patterns, but we don't know how bold
Speaker 4: the colors were.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, Tony wants to know if dinosaurs are the
Speaker 1: ancestors of modern birds. Does that mean that dinosaurs tasted
Speaker 1: like chicken?
Speaker 4: They probably did taste like chicken. Yeah, so you know,
Speaker 4: putting in it is birds are just weird dinosaurs, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and they probably did. I mean, keep in mind, the
Speaker 4: closest living relatives of birds are crocodilians. If you have
Speaker 4: a head alligator, it tastes a little bit like chicken too.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 4: So there's what we call a phylogenetic bracket of tastiness
Speaker 4: there and technical about it. And yeah, so I imagine
Speaker 4: it would taste pretty much pretty much like chicken. Your
Speaker 4: typical dinosaur would probably be mostly more dark meat than
Speaker 4: white meat.
Speaker 1: Because they have more hemoglobin for.
Speaker 4: Moving, uh sort of. It's very close with what turns
Speaker 4: the dark meat dark is someone called myoglobin, which okays
Speaker 4: for storing oxygen in muscle, and that's used particularly in
Speaker 4: what we call aerobic muscle, so muscle that uses a
Speaker 4: lot of auction. It's high endurance muscle.
Speaker 1: So it's this oxygen storing protein myoglobin that makes dark
Speaker 1: meat dark, which is why legs which move around more
Speaker 1: are dark meat and chicken breast which just sits there,
Speaker 1: not flapping. Much is white, so good luck ever looking
Speaker 1: at a roasted dinosaur the same Adam has a question,
Speaker 1: how do you know when to switch brushes when you're
Speaker 1: digging out a fossil?
Speaker 4: How do you know when the switch brushes when the
Speaker 4: one you cur certainly have is unusable?
Speaker 1: And then you just do you have to get the
Speaker 1: finer and finer brushes when you're getting tiny grains of
Speaker 1: sand off.
Speaker 4: Uh, You don't usually have to reduce the brush size much,
Speaker 4: maybe a little bit. It's more things like chisel anything sharp,
Speaker 4: chisel sizes and things like that. If you're doing some
Speaker 4: more detailed work, you have to go to a smaller tool.
Speaker 4: Brushes any kind of broad soft paint brush will kind
Speaker 4: of do. Certain brissel types are better than others. But
Speaker 4: you know, it's you know, it's not You're not like
Speaker 4: it's not like painting. Where're going out to detail work.
Speaker 4: You're not taking off each individual grain of sandy. Just
Speaker 4: you have some loose stuff and then you brush out
Speaker 4: of the way, and you have some more loose stuff
Speaker 4: and you brush out the way. The key thing is
Speaker 4: to not to damage the fossil.
Speaker 1: I always picture you guys going down to like a
Speaker 1: water color two hairs on the brush, like delicately. It's
Speaker 1: good to know that you guys are just like, no,
Speaker 1: just get the dust up.
Speaker 4: I've used dental tools to etch stuff around a fossil
Speaker 4: be for that seems fun. It is for a while,
Speaker 4: and then it starts to become tedious, but it's mostly fun. Yeah,
Speaker 4: iouly love it, but yeah, we don't go to tiny brushes.
Speaker 1: TJ wants to know how many of the fossils on
Speaker 1: display museums are actual replicas casts.
Speaker 4: Right, right, So it depends on what museum you're at,
Speaker 4: and it depends in a large part of what age
Speaker 4: the museum is, or that the exhibit is, in particular
Speaker 4: when it was built. If it's a really old exhibit,
Speaker 4: so you go say it hasn't been changed since the
Speaker 4: nineteen twenties, it's likely mostly original material. Oh, because during
Speaker 4: that time they didn't do as much casting. They didn't
Speaker 4: mind drilling through some of these things to put them
Speaker 4: on exhibit. And then as you got into the mid
Speaker 4: to late twentieth century, that fell out of favor because
Speaker 4: they didn't want to put holes in the research specimen.
Speaker 4: But now if it's a really recent exhibit, ironically enough
Speaker 4: you're going to see more original stuff on display again
Speaker 4: because we have better armatures now what we call cradle armatures.
Speaker 1: Armatures are the metal cradles that hold the bones in
Speaker 1: place externally, not lets you remove pieces of research and
Speaker 1: put them back do whatever.
Speaker 4: Now, what percentage of each of the specimen's original is
Speaker 4: a whole nother ballgame. You very rarely find a complete skeleton.
Speaker 4: There's a few different ways of ending up with a
Speaker 4: complete skeleton. For exhibit one is you create a composite
Speaker 4: from multiple originals of the same species that are all
Speaker 4: similar enough in age and size that it'll more or
Speaker 4: less work as an average individual. So what you're displaying
Speaker 4: isn't a single individual ever lived, but it's sort of
Speaker 4: an average of four or five app individuals that were
Speaker 4: very similar.
Speaker 1: So it's like a frank consort.
Speaker 4: It's like a Frank consort. Okay. And then if the
Speaker 4: thing's really incomplete, and this happens quite often, like you
Speaker 4: found that, you know, you do have enough to know
Speaker 4: what it is, you have enough to know it's a
Speaker 4: new animal, what have you. But you only have to say,
Speaker 4: fifteen percent of of the skeleton. You will then fill
Speaker 4: in the rest of casts.
Speaker 1: But the museums are trying their best. Yeah, so sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't have all the parts and pieces to a
Speaker 1: dead dino that you need. But that's why scientists and
Speaker 1: artists build it out for us, and that's why we
Speaker 1: love them. Well, what's your favorite thing about the gym?
Speaker 4: That one's hard, just because the job actually is super fun.
Speaker 4: I love fieldwork. I love opening drawers and new museums
Speaker 4: and the collections right good places to you know, travel
Speaker 4: to do research. I really do enjoy teaching a friends
Speaker 4: data up a social gathering. Karo tou Men said, give
Speaker 4: me a little bit of a hard time. And you
Speaker 4: guess so you're you're an academic, right, Yeah, what do
Speaker 4: you actually make? Isn't like what do you what do
Speaker 4: you make? Likely? What do you make? And I took
Speaker 4: a quick second and said, I make doctors face?
Speaker 1: And thank you doctor Michael Habib for teaching us so
Speaker 1: much about dinosaurs and paintbrushes and mosquito bites and following
Speaker 1: your passions into a pit of dusty bones, and thank
Speaker 1: you to everyone who helped make this episode full credits
Speaker 1: or in the show notes, along with doctor Michael Habibe's
Speaker 1: handles to follow, we are at ologies and I'm at
Speaker 1: ali Ward with one l More info is at aliward
Speaker 1: dot com, slash smologies and one last thing before I
Speaker 1: go some advice from old dad Ward. You know, sometimes
Speaker 1: it can be scary to start a project, but starting
Speaker 1: is always the very hardest part. It's all easier once
Speaker 1: you start, So be strong. Start the thing you're going
Speaker 1: to do great. Okay, bye bye, I'll use it smart
Speaker 1: smaller drates.
Speaker 3: Smong juice, small juicee.
Speaker 2: Smole juice, get value. You can't argue with that Tesco
Speaker 2: with their amazing club card prices. Serve up something special
Speaker 2: with our finest meal deal for two starring one main,
Speaker 2: two sides and dessert for only sixteen EU row like
Speaker 2: succulent board, be approved Virushanger strip loin steaks with pepper,
Speaker 2: corn butter, or delicious Firous Chicken Parmeshama served with creamy
Speaker 2: potato gratam and our mix of rainbow root vegetables. And
Speaker 2: enjoy Goozillionaire or Salder Caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that
Speaker 2: shop in store or online. Tesco. Every little helps available
Speaker 2: the most stores, prices very in express