WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:02.640 Yeah, look, it's to be quite excited about this, and 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:05.559 the market has received this really well. And the whole 3 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.640 thing started with, you know, our own kind of looking 4 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:11.080 at even some of the people and the team and 5 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.759 now trying to kind of send money using blockchain. We 6 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.320 are pretty blockchain native users, we would like to say, 7 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:19.960 some of us on the team. Trying to send money 8 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:24.359 to another person is quite conversion even today for most cases. 9 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:32.759 Right this episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure 10 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.320 makes beautifully crafted hardware wallets that make it easy for 11 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:40.000 you to safely store your cryptocurrencies. I'm a big believer 12 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.280 in self custody. I've been using hardware wallets for years 13 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:47.200 and Treasure was the pioneer of hardware wallets and they 14 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:50.479 started this journey in twenty thirteen. Their hardware wallets are 15 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:54.200 open source and they support a variety of tokens from 16 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.119 Bitcoin to the top all coins and even new coins 17 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.439 such as black Rocks, Biddle and I'm personally you of 18 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.479 the Treasure Save five. It's a beautiful device and easy 19 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.640 to use, and Treasure offers a handholding service where they 20 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:09.879 can help you on board and set up your device 21 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:13.480 so you can speak directly to a Treasure representative who 22 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.200 can hold your hand through the process. And if you 23 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:19.719 use the code thinking Crypto all one word, you can 24 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.879 get five percent off your purchase of a Treasure device. 25 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.359 So to learn more about Treasure and all their great 26 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:29.439 devices and services, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, 27 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.719 welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, 28 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.519 and joining me is Rog de Moojoren, who is the 29 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:40.560 executive vice president of Blockchain and Digital Assets at MasterCard. Rog. 30 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:43.280 Great to have you, Tony. It's great to be here 31 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:43.799 as well. 32 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:47.239 I am so excited to speak with you MasterCard being 33 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.120 the payments giant that it is delving into blockchain and 34 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:55.200 building some unique products and services. And I have a 35 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.879 lot of questions for you, but before we get there, 36 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.319 tell us a bit about yourself and your professional background. 37 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.640 Yeah. Look, first of all, it's great to be here, 38 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:06.319 and it's a great time to be in crypto at 39 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.879 the moment. And I think it is also wonderful to 40 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:15.159 be part of a such a celebrated brand and the 41 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:20.840 company Mastercut. We have a strong history of technology based 42 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:24.120 innovations in the space and look forward to kind of 43 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.080 talking about that a little bit more about myself. I've 44 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.159 been with the company for about fifteen years now and 45 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.479 different roles and Mastercut is great that way in terms 46 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:38.120 of building people pursuing people career in different sectors. I 47 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.080 used to be in our Asia Pacific region for a 48 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:45.879 while and yeah, I'll have a lot longer payment background 49 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:49.479 and also live in the Bay Area, so I have 50 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.360 a doublegateory startup background as well prior to all this, 51 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:57.520 which is also helping us navigate this sector because this 52 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:00.560 is quite dynamic and you got to you got to 53 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:01.639 get into it if you will. 54 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.520 Yeah, absolutely, So I often ask people, you know, what 55 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.400 was their first encounter with bicoin or crypto or blockchain 56 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.080 and what was the aha moment? When did it click 57 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:11.439 for you? 58 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.199 Wow? Look, I come from a bit of a technology 59 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.919 background and often often when new stuff comes in, whether 60 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.439 that is a crypto or AI, you tend to kind 61 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.319 of play around with it, and that's how you get 62 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.120 to get into get into it first of all, first 63 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.199 as a hobby to understand that's the best way to 64 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.960 understand something is to try things on. So probably my 65 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.560 earliest thing was years ago. I can't even remember. This 66 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:41.639 is probably back when I was in Asia Pacific just 67 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.879 trying to connect, just set up a wallet and connect 68 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:49.360 to various blockchain zen, try to swap, try to get 69 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:52.639 into it. And that's probably one of the earliest times. 70 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.960 I think that the critical unlock is really when the 71 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:00.360 transition from the bitcoin just as a as a as 72 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.120 a currency into more of a programmable platform, when the 73 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:08.240 change themselves were more gentle purpose more it becomes like 74 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:13.520 an alternative compute method that can really people can build 75 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.879 applications on top of it. That is, I think is 76 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:19.759 the is an unlock where I personally saw, Wow, this 77 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.240 has actually a lot more to it. I know, the 78 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.040 res his history, and I'm kind of in terms of 79 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:28.759 how this has opened up beyond just the core store 80 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.279 of value the bitcoin story. Yeah. 81 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:37.079 Now, Roger, you know, relative to other industries and asset classes, 82 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:41.120 this technology and asset class is still very young. There's 83 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:44.439 still billions of people who don't really recognize what it 84 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.639 is and its implications. So I'm sure as some of 85 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:52.079 the viewers and listeners are going to ask, so, what 86 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.959 why would MasterCard want to use blockchain technology and stable coins? 87 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.360 How would you answer to that question? 88 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.600 Yeah, So the answer to this actually almost has almost 89 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:08.040 nothing to do with specifically crypto or a blockchain for 90 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.160 that matter. If you look at what master Card does 91 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.560 and people most of the consumers know about because they 92 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:17.480 have a card and they go use it, that card 93 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:22.560 represents a abstraction or the functionality of quite a bit 94 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.680 of complexity that is behind it. You could just you know, 95 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:29.240 we have about three point five billion cards and you 96 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.519 could take that and go to any of the one 97 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.399 hundred and fifty million merchant locations. You can just simply 98 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.399 with a tap and pay, and you don't decide what currency. 99 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:41.399 You may have a currency. You know, you may use 100 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:43.480 a debit card, you may use even a crypto card, 101 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.639 and the other side the merchants decide what currency that 102 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.959 they want to get paid, and you really don't think 103 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.360 about it. You just go tap. It simply works. You 104 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:57.319 could go to any of the countries and simply work. 105 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:02.399 That complexity is all abstracted away into a simple consumer experience, 106 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.800 and that's what people think about. And so when new 107 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:09.680 forms of store of value comes in in this case 108 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:11.959 we are talking about crypto, whether that is a bitcoin 109 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:15.439 or a ether or even stable coin, simply how do 110 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.759 you access that value to be able to spend anywhere 111 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:22.319 that you want to spend. So the way that we 112 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:24.920 think about it is so, yeah, as these store of 113 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.160 value become a more legitimate it has legal standing, a 114 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.240 regulatory standing in a given jurisdiction, we want to make 115 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.480 sure that the power of the network is available to 116 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:39.680 this new class of values as well. It is. So 117 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:43.360 it's all about coming to a very simple thing, is choice, right, 118 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.759 can you know? People want to spend the money that 119 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.560 they have, and we want to make sure that it's 120 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:52.040 easy to do. People want to receive a specific currency 121 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.560 they want in a given jurisdiction, we make that happen 122 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.240 as well. So it's really about that. It's that simple. 123 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:00.519 That's why we get involved in the space because we 124 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:05.439 have a publication to curate and provide the best forms 125 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:10.000 of currencies and optionality to all the people. Starting with 126 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:13.920 you know, consumer payments, but it also kind of goes 127 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.560 into other forms of payments like remittances and so on. 128 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.800 Yeah, oh for sure. And do you envision that eventually 129 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.439 beyond just okay, I want to spend some Bitcoin or 130 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:29.160 either or whichever crypto asset, that the stable coin technology 131 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.439 will be powering majority of payments because of the instant settlement, 132 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:37.560 the transparency, and the end consumer may not even know 133 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:39.560 that's happening behind the scenes. They just need to know 134 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:40.120 it works. 135 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:45.160 Look from a consumer person to merchant payments, that is 136 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.360 really you know, it works incredibly well. As I was 137 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.160 talking about, like you know, millions of consumers going to 138 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.839 millions of merchants, and whether you're tapped to pay, whether 139 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:59.480 you're in a whether in New York subway, our London 140 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.160 tube or online one click checkout, it's all kind of 141 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:08.439 very seamless. Now, some of the people behind the scenes 142 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:10.920 may say, look, I have a bank account and I 143 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.319 have a checkingcount saving account, or some people may say, look, 144 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:17.639 I have this great credit card from they have a 145 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:22.120 great credit card from say American Airlines credit card. It 146 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.160 could be that, or it could be a Gemini credit 147 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:30.199 card that owns bitcoin back in towards whatever that card 148 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.679 form that you have, you could go spend at that merchant. 149 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.120 Right now, what we've seen is that, look, we are 150 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.960 enabling that optionality on the consumer side, like if you 151 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.960 have a stable coin wallet, you can access it through 152 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.120 this card and the merchants, most merchants in Western markets 153 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:51.279 actually continue to prefer to get paid in local currencies, 154 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:55.519 and in many markets you're required to get paid in 155 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:59.159 the local currency. So that's what that's what the merchants 156 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.080 need to get paid in. But in some markets people prefer, oh, no, 157 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:04.440 can you pay me in stable coins? Like I don't, 158 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.279 and they don't say that this is very important, right 159 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:14.279 Tony merchants, let's say in Argentina, in another market, okay, 160 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.159 they say that, look, I prefer to get paid in 161 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.480 a stable coin, right. They don't say that, if Tony 162 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.600 comes with the stable coin wallet, please pay me in 163 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.480 stable coin. They actually say, look, I want to get 164 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:27.679 paid in stable coint because that's my preferred way to 165 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:31.720 receive no matter who shows up. So no matter which 166 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:35.039 one of those cards that I talked about shows up 167 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.080 at that merchant location, they still get to exercise their 168 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:43.120 choice of getting paid in stable That's quite powerful right now, 169 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:46.919 whether you know, yeah, I can stable coin move faster? 170 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.600 We actually you know, you know, in our remitants business, 171 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:54.519 we today settle even without stable coins, in real time, 172 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.879 near real time with each ten billion plus locations around 173 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:03.240 the world. Yeah, in some cases stable coins can help accelerate. 174 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.200 You know. We can talk a little bit about the 175 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.440 programmable nature of the money and how it can help. 176 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.960 But it is part of the answer, it's not the 177 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.279 whole answer, you see, somebody need to still stand up 178 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:15.039 the whole surface. 179 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.360 Oh sure, so yeah, that definitely makes sense. So you 180 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.960 have that optionality for the consumer, but it doesn't necessarily 181 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:26.720 have to power everything, just maybe certain corridors maybe where 182 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:30.840 that can help speed up things and having the consumer 183 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:32.879 have the option it. Like you said, if you're in 184 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.759 another country, you can choose to have the stable coins. 185 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:39.679 Yeah, yeah, that's right. So look, even in the case 186 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:44.279 of cross border remittants, whereas stable coins people are talking about. 187 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:46.720 The way that you think about this is that if 188 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:50.159 you have a new store of value, new wallet where 189 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.799 you choose to store things in a certain format, let's 190 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:58.080 say in stable coins, that choice again is independent and 191 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.440 somebody on that side you want to send money to, 192 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.879 you can't tell them. Look, prease open a stable coin 193 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:08.039 wallet and so that I can send money. It's kind 194 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.639 of how absurd that looks. You want to be able 195 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.399 to send the money based on simple email or mobile number, 196 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:16.799 and the other person should be able to exercise that choice. 197 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.840 Maybe they're a bank account person, maybe they're a telco 198 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.080 wallet person. Maybe there is a crypto wallet, there is 199 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.559 a cryptovallet person. On the other side, you need to 200 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:29.879 be able to send the money whatever format that you have, 201 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:35.360 and that's important. So again people talk about oh stable coin, Yes, 202 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.480 it can be a critical part of that starting of 203 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:43.519 the rail, the remittance flow or the end. But you 204 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:46.360 need to be able to go from fiat to stable, 205 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.240 stable to fiat if you truly want to deliver the 206 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.440 choice thing. As you can see, this is a repeating 207 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.840 thing between the between both use cases. 208 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.600 Oh absolutely. You know you mentioned just a minute ago 209 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:05.080 about programmable money and this technology allowing each to program 210 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.759 these stable coins or different assets. Tell us about your 211 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.399 view on that and how MasterCard may look to leverage that. 212 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.960 Yeah, look, this is a this is the critical this 213 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.200 is the this is the new feature. Right. The rest 214 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.200 are all we talked about. How we need to be 215 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.720 tied together. The power of the programmability comes in when 216 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:30.080 you are able to first of all, move this money format. 217 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.679 In this case, we are talking about stable coin and 218 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.000 being able to purchase assets on the other side. You know, 219 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:38.559 people the industry would call it as d VP, but 220 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.080 we can simply call it as a swap for the 221 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:44.720 for the crypto world. If you want, uh, how do 222 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:49.080 you do that in a in an automated way, but 223 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.360 in also a very highly assured way, meaning that the 224 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:55.639 money moves only if the asset moves and if it 225 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:59.360 both happens together or or or not. That is just 226 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.799 one program ammable primitive. I think that's quite powerful. There 227 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:07.600 are other primitives like, for example, can I can I 228 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.000 actually hold the money for a certain purpose until you 229 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:11.960 meet that condition? 230 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:12.480 Right? 231 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.600 How do you? How do you meet that? That condition 232 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.559 could be that a delivery of good somewhere, could be 233 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.399 another real world event that is happening. All of that 234 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.799 it allows you to express in a format that that 235 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:31.480 is much more transparent way, if you will, and that 236 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.279 I think is not just reserved to just stable coins. 237 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:36.639 We feel the way that we think about this is 238 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:40.519 that uh, a financial institution or a consumer or a 239 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.799 business should be able to hold the money in the 240 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:47.120 format that they prefer. Sometimes it's stable coins, sometimes it 241 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.480 could be bank deposits. So we think that even if 242 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.159 you are in the form of a bank deposit, the 243 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:56.240 classic bank deposit, you need to be able to bring 244 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.360 that programmability on those primitives of like the DVP are 245 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:06.600 conditional release of payments. All of that work seamlessly, and 246 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:08.879 that's part of the reason. We've been investing the tokenized 247 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.039 deposit technology as well, and we have products and solutions 248 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:15.440 there as well, and I think that is important. The 249 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:19.080 reason for that is, like you know, we stable coins 250 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.320 are you know, have grown tremendously and they're going to 251 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.039 continue to grow. There's no doubt, especially with the clear 252 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.960 regulatory clarity of the Genius and MICA and so forth. 253 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:34.559 But it's also true that the fundamental economy today is 254 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.799 continue to be driven by this fractional reserve system, which 255 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:44.480 enables banks to take deposits, lend and create money supply, 256 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.440 if you will. That drives the economy, so that format 257 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.240 will continue to exist. I haven't checked the market cap. 258 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.120 I think we have a few hundred billion in terms 259 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:57.080 of the stable coin market cap. I think US dollar 260 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.720 deposits of alone is fourteen fifteen trillions something like that. 261 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.480 In terms of posits, that's just one currency. So I 262 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.759 think it is our obligation, you know, those of us 263 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.799 in the crypto industry that bring the benefits to the 264 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.679 biggest money format and regulated money format that exists, which 265 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.759 is deposits so we've been saying this for some time 266 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.039 as well, and because we believe in that, and so 267 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.559 it is not like one currency versus one format versus 268 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:29.320 the other. As long as it has the right attributes, 269 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:34.879 which is clear parameters around how the currency works, regulatory 270 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:39.159 framework right, and we are able to offer that format 271 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.440 in use cases in a way that's accessible to that 272 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.840 consumer or a business base, then we are for it. 273 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.879 And that's been driving our product strategy on this for 274 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:51.559 quite some time. 275 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.360 You mentioned this a Genius Act being passed into law, 276 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.960 pretty historic, and you know it has a lot of 277 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:03.600 implications means as well as US dollar. Do you envision 278 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:08.320 that innovation around stable coins? Will you know, have an explosion, 279 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.200 We're going to see new issuers and could that market 280 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.039 hit one trillion by next year. 281 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:19.480 Look, I'm not very good at in protecting crystal ball thing, 282 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.799 and that's not what I think the trends are. The 283 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:28.919 preconditions are set for people to build new use cases 284 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:34.879 around it, for sure, right, and I believe those companies 285 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.399 that offer an end to end value proposition because stable 286 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.000 kind at the end of it is a rail to 287 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.279 move money, right. Stable coin present in a public blockchain 288 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.600 is a rail to move money. You build use cases 289 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.600 when you for that segment consumer or a business segment, 290 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.879 go put all the protections and on the simplicity and 291 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.639 user experience with it for you to turn into an 292 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.880 end to end use case, whether that is consumer payments, 293 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.640 which we think that continue to cards continue to be 294 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.079 the best way to access them, even if the format 295 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.200 of the currency is the tables and as I was 296 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.480 saying in the remittance is it is it is really 297 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.759 about standing that end to end use case where people 298 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.160 may have choice about where you want to send and received. Yeah, 299 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:29.960 I think the future is bright on that. You've also 300 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:35.160 seen other jurisdictions Tony, And you know we briefly mentioned 301 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:41.119 MICA in Europe, so you can expect more stable coins 302 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.839 that are Euro denominated to come up. Hong Kong HKMA 303 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.240 Hong Kong Monetary Authority has a clear framework for stable 304 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:54.079 coins as well. M AS in Singapore has a clear 305 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.799 framework for stable coins as well. UAE is coming up 306 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.440 with a similar one. So you can see that multiple currencies, 307 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.079 not just you as dollars will will will be there 308 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.160 and as you can see that in itself will will start. 309 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:10.440 How do you get from one to another, and all 310 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.359 those things need to be solved. It's still not those 311 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:17.440 are those are in early stages. All of this would 312 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:20.200 determine the kind of the trajectory that you're on. Right, 313 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:25.319 So today it is it is actually in most markets 314 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.599 to getting too from stable to feat Those markets are 315 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.200 not as deep as fear to feel it, which is 316 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.960 a critical infrastructure you need to unlock in order for 317 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:36.960 that to get to the next level of the growth 318 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.000 for it to be considerct kind of a normal other 319 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.359 form of the currency. Right. 320 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.279 Oh, absolutely, So the envision the future payments, you have 321 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:50.079 these different digital currencies in stable cooin format there they 322 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.359 can be interoppable, they're on multiple blockchains, and well many 323 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.279 of us are going to have digital wallets. We're headed 324 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.240 to a more digital world. We're not going to use 325 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.640 cash and going to have the optionality like you were 326 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.640 saying before, maybe some of some quarters at a traditional 327 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.559 rail summer powered by sable coins. You got digital assets 328 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.839 in crypto. You know, all that in that respective wallet, 329 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.319 and you know, I could send international payments from my phone, 330 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.920 I can make a payment at Starbucks and all these 331 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:19.160 things are done in that wallet. 332 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.720 Yeah, so most lot of these experiences that you're talking 333 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.359 about happens today, right, So so you could you know, 334 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.160 you could have your Apple wallet or a bank wallet 335 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.720 are are or if you're an Android, there are many 336 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:39.839 options there as well. People can go pay today. I 337 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:46.359 think that experience is well done already and the optionality 338 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:51.279 that need to be added is is those purses, those 339 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.960 new stable coin wallets that are coming out, can be 340 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:59.359 equally accessed easily. And so we have many such cads right. 341 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.559 For example, card Gemini is the credit card that owns 342 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.680 crypto rewards. We have a card with Crypto dot Com 343 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:12.480 in the in the Middle East, crack in Europe for example. 344 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.359 Even the metal mask and the self cut to the 345 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.319 wallet have a master cut card attached to it. So 346 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.240 you go through a KYC process, you can bring your funds, 347 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.319 whatever the assets are, and the card starts working as 348 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.920 simple as any other card. The kind of power that 349 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:36.680 it puts in the phone consumer is quite quite quite significant, 350 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:39.880 and that's what we are excited about to bring bridge 351 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.200 the world of the crypto to the kind of the 352 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.759 one hundred and fifty million merchant accept on locations and growing. 353 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:49.119 I should say. 354 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:55.640 To those consumers, now, tell us a bit about which 355 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.200 table coins you're using because I noticed that master Card 356 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.720 had joined the us d G stable Coin Consortium, a 357 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:06.279 global dollar network in stortium. Excuse me, are you primarily 358 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.799 using us d G or are you kind of agnostic? 359 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:11.480 We're using us DC and other stable coins as well. 360 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:14.640 Yeah, Look, we support multiple stable coins in many of 361 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:20.039 our use cases today consumers, not consumers, the business, the 362 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.759 financial institutions that issue cards, or the acquirers that connect 363 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:29.880 merchants can actually UH settled with through our partners in 364 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.400 multiple stable coins. We've been supporting us DC for the 365 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.400 longest time now and U s DP, which was which 366 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.720 was a part of stable coin. What you saw is 367 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:44.559 announcing last couple of weeks ago is that we are 368 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:49.400 adding a few more coins support That includes the PayPal 369 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.759 us D U s d G. I'll come to the 370 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:57.519 USDG discussion in a bit, and five U s D 371 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.160 as well, because Fisov announced that plans to launch one. 372 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.039 What you're seeing there is that as long as the 373 00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:11.200 coin is well formed, confirmed to a certain regulatory jurisdictions 374 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.079 where they operate in, we want to be able to 375 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.839 make that available in our network, which is not very 376 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.319 different from how our traditional network works. One hundred and 377 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:26.559 fifty plus currencies are supported in our network, several of 378 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:31.200 them as settlement as well, So it is it's natural 379 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:35.119 for us to add support to that those currencies with USDG. 380 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.759 You asked an earlier question, look or everybody wanting to 381 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.240 launch coin. Look, I think there is an upper limit 382 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.640 to the number of coins that would can play a 383 00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:50.880 useful role in driving some of these use cases. Because 384 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.400 each look you made this point earlier, each of the 385 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.160 stable coin, if you look at it, you got to 386 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:03.319 issue them, manage them, make them available, multiple blockchain networks, 387 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.599 list them in multiple exchanges, create deep liquidity between that 388 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.200 pair and the other pairs. It is actually a hard work, 389 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.519 and we think that the market would converge to a 390 00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:21.359 few stable coins in the world. We're not here to 391 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.200 pick winners. What we wanted to do here really is 392 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:28.079 with the USDG joining with paksos to provide the option 393 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:32.480 for a financial institution or a fintech want to offer 394 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:35.759 this to their consumers, they should have an easy way 395 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.400 to do. So what we're hoping is we can provide 396 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.839 that access, and we already it in an off ramp 397 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:46.640 between the FIAT and the stable coin world, and we 398 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:49.160 think we can continue to play a very effective role 399 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.480 there in partnership with the pacsos. So we're making it 400 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.240 easy for them to access and that's the part of it, 401 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.599