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See website for details. 12 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:35.280 Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck. 13 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:37.920 I'm gonna make him an offer you can't refuse. 14 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:42.039 With family, canolis and spins mean everything. 15 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.920 Now you want to get mixed up in the family business. 16 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:50.119 Introducing the Godfather at Champagasino dot com. Test your luck 17 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.799 in the shadowy world at the Godfather slot. 18 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:55.759 Someday I will call upon you to do a service 19 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:56.039 for me. 20 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.000 Play the Godfather now at Champacasino dot com. 21 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.399 Welcome to the vdW group. Now purchase necessary. I believe 22 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.439 we're privited by loss he terms and conditions eighteen plus. 23 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:05.319 Love. 24 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:19.400 You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking 25 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:22.519 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:29.879 written about them. Geesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.599 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:38.239 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.120 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:51.760 Good evening. 31 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.200 This is your host Dan Zepasi for the program True Murder, 32 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.040 The most shocking killers in true crime history and the 33 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:02.159 authors that have written about them. Today's program is with 34 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.040 author Don Lassiter and his book Die for Me, The 35 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:11.639 Terrifying True Story of the Charles Zing Leonard Lake Torture Murders. 36 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.840 Inspired by a fictional book called The Collector ex Marines, 37 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.439 Leonard Lake and Charles Zing abducted, tortured, and murdered women 38 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.159 in a secret homemade dungeon, all the while videotaping their 39 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:26.360 ghastly deeds. They took the lives of at least sixteen 40 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.719 victims and are among the most notorious serial killer teams 41 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:33.439 in true crime history. Die for Me, The Terrifying True 42 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:36.560 Story of the Charles Zing Leonard Lake Torture Murders by 43 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:40.199 Don Lassiter. My guest. Don Lassiter is now working on 44 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:44.039 his nineteenth and twentieth books. One was about World War II, 45 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:48.039 one about the Kennedy assassination, and one called The Patricia 46 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.680 Cornwell Companion. All the rest of in True Crime. His 47 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:55.280 first book was published in nineteen ninety five. Welcome to 48 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.080 the program, and thank you for Green dis interview. Dawn Lassiter. 49 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.439 Thank you for a writing me, Dan, I've been looking 50 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.680 forward to talking about Charles Zing. 51 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.240 Yes, very much. This is quite the story of an 52 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.879 incredible story. Now, the first question I have to ask you. 53 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.280 You've written about many other cases, what specifically made you 54 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.400 decide to write about this one. 55 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:21.960 As a general rule, Dan, I prefer not to have 56 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.039 high enough to deal with high profile cases like this one. 57 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:29.280 I'd much rather select a small, relatively unknown case which 58 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:33.840 has some interesting twist and its plot and it doesn't 59 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:39.039 have high publicity. But in this case, my publisher gave 60 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:40.879 me a bus and asked me if I would drop 61 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:43.520 over to the trial, which happened to be a change 62 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.000 of venue from northern California to Orange County, where I live, 63 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.479 so that was pretty convenient. I agreed. I went over 64 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.199 and sat in the trial for a couple of days 65 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.199 and was hooked. Obviously, this was going to be a 66 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:59.599 very very important true kind of story. Now. 67 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.719 Wishaw author named John Fowls had written a popular fictional 68 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:07.639 book called The Collector in nineteen sixty three. It ends 69 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:11.439 up being quite significant to this story. Before we get 70 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:14.599 to the significance, what is the book about and from 71 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.519 whose perspective is the story primarily told? 72 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.920 The Collector by John Fowls is about a young man, 73 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:26.759 Frederick Kleig, who is a butterfly collector and he falls 74 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:31.160 for a very pretty young woman named Miranda, but he 75 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.680 realizes that he is not in her class, and he 76 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.079 just has a lot of fantasies about her. Clague comes 77 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.720 into a good sudden fortune which allows him to buy 78 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.319 a house out in the country, and he gets this 79 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.839 brilliant idea to just capture Miranda like he does his butterflies, 80 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.079 and hold her there until she falls in love with him. 81 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.800 The first third of the book is told from his 82 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.040 point of view, the second third is from her point 83 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:00.160 of view, and then finally the last part is his 84 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.319 point of view. Again, he holds her, she does not 85 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.279 fall in love with him he has he does not 86 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:10.560 have sexual fantasies about her, unlike what we see in 87 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:16.480 the Charles ing Leonard leg case, well. 88 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.959 Let me let me, let me cut you off right there, 89 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.360 so we can and fold this story here because it 90 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:23.600 is very complex story as well, so we've got to 91 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.720 get everybody to get the fact straight here. Now, in 92 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.920 the book the Collector, the imprisoned woman Miranda tries many 93 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.639 ways to either escape or persuade. 94 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:34.360 Her abductor to let her go. 95 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.040 Does the Collector ever mention that he might let the 96 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:38.519 woman go? 97 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.759 I think in the book he hints at it sometimes, 98 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.920 but I think he has no intention to let her go. Ever, 99 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.800 eventually she she comes to know that she's not in real, 100 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:55.000 real danger, but she unfortunately dies anyway while under his control. 101 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:57.439 Uh perhaps from pneumonia, we don't know. 102 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.800 Okay, Now, Leonard Think is one of the killers featured 103 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:04.720 in Die for Me. And what was when Leonard Lake? 104 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:05.319 Like? 105 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.639 What was his background? And finally he was discharged from 106 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.720 the Marine Corps because of medical reasons? And in the 107 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.240 end can you tell us what that medical reason was? 108 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:18.800 So give us the background on Leonard Lake? What was 109 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:23.519 he really like and what was his some of his background, Well. 110 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:28.959 Leonard Lake was born excuse me, to an X Navy 111 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.279 man and a young woman in San Francisco. The parents 112 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.959 soon split up. When the woman decided to try to 113 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:40.319 pursue her husband ex husband, she went to a train 114 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:44.319 station with her two babies. She had asked Leonard, who 115 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:46.240 was only six at the time, if you'd like to 116 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:47.920 go with her, and she said no. But at the 117 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:51.120 train station he decided he wanted to go and just 118 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.639 had a big fit right there on the platform. But 119 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.240 he had to stay home with his grandparents. Psychiatrists later 120 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:03.120 saied ugested that that was the beginning of Leonard Lake's 121 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.879 hatred for women. He grew up and he never lived 122 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:09.920 with his parents again, lived with these grandparents, grew up 123 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.399 in San Francisco, I went to high school, had some 124 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:16.519 peculiar characteristics. One of his cousins later reported that Leonard 125 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.079 had a huge collection of mice, and when he got 126 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.040 tired of them, he gave some away and killed the 127 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:27.360 rest of them, and the cousin once Leonard dissolve them 128 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:30.079 in acid. That sort of gave a hint of what 129 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.160 kind of a peculiar man he was going to be. 130 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:39.000 Yes, certainly, certainly now continuing with his pecurity behavior, maybe 131 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:41.920 he could just continue with his background and also leading 132 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.439 up to his stint in the Marines grret. 133 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.879 He went through high school and then joined Soon after 134 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.800 high school, joined the Marines and went to Vietnam. There's 135 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.839 some controversies whether he actually saw combat or not. He 136 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.439 claimed he did later. I think he confess confess to 137 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.439 one woman that he spent most time in a very 138 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:06.439 safe place. But he came back all disillusioned, as many 139 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:10.759 real Vena Vietnam veterans did, and decided he wanted to 140 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:14.519 be a survivalist, preparing for a future holocaust in which 141 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.639 the world would be destroyed. And he decided he would 142 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.399 have a bunker equipped with all kinds of supply so 143 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.240 he could survive, and he would like to have a 144 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.279 woman in there too. Eventually he decided that that woman 145 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.120 would be his sex slave, and that became a fantasy 146 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:33.559 for him, stemming from his having read The Collector when 147 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:38.519 he was a teenager. But he perverted it somewhat Fowls 148 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:42.279 character protagonist that just wanted the woman to fall in love. 149 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.159 Leonard admitted that he wanted the woman just to be 150 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:46.039 a sex object. 151 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.360 Now, when we talk about the Leonard Lake doing a 152 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:56.080 stint in Vietnam and Marines, he was discharged for medical reasons, 153 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.519 like I mentioned. What was that medical reason? 154 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:04.000 Let's see. I think it was called him pending psychosis 155 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:07.840 or something of that nature. He apparently had some very 156 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.559 serious mental problems. 157 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:16.240 Didn't the psychiatrists say that he was harmed to himself 158 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.159 or to others? With that a conclusion they made at 159 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:19.559 the end. 160 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.440 That's correct, he probably would be a harm to others. 161 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.039 Okay, Now Charles Ng is the other killer featured and 162 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.000 die for me? What was his background and what type 163 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:31.360 of character was Charles Ng. 164 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.080 Charles Ng was born in Hong Kong to a middle 165 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.039 class family. His father had survived the war and worked 166 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.799 his way up to become a camera salesman for a 167 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:47.080 major company, had three children and determined absolutely that his 168 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:49.840 kids were going to have a great education. They lived 169 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:53.600 in a high rise apartment, very crowded, with several relatives 170 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:59.039 living with him. But Charles didn't seem to go along 171 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:02.080 with the idea that was that important, so his father 172 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.080 sometimes had to give him a pretty good spanking. He 173 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:11.480 was later accused of beating him severely, but it didn't 174 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.039 seem to change the young man. Eventually, they sent young 175 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.120 Charles Ing to England to live with a relative that 176 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.279 didn't work out, and then by the time he was 177 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.279 in high school age, they sent him to San Francisco 178 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.960 to live with an ant. He did that for a while, 179 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:29.360 but as soon as he turned eighteen, he joined the Marines. 180 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.440 It's interesting how he got in the Marine because he's 181 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:37.000 not a US citizen. Somehow it was suggested that documents 182 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.360 were forged to allow him to get in there. 183 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:45.519 Okay, I see now, how did Charles Ing and Leonard 184 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:48.039 Lake eventually meet? You say they were both in the Marines. 185 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:50.519 How did they meet and where? 186 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.360 Well, Charlie decided while he was in Conneaway Bay in 187 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.840 Hawaii that it would be a good idea to steal 188 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.960 some weapons from the armory and sell them for profit. 189 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.600 He did, and he was caught and he was facing 190 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.159 a court martial, but he escaped and made his way 191 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:11.039 to San Francisco. While he was in in Hawaii, though 192 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.879 he had met he had met with a few other 193 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:15.159 fellows who wanted to be survivalists, and one of them 194 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.679 mentioned that he knew a fellow in California named Leonard 195 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.399 Lake who was a survivalist. So when Charlie came to 196 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:27.840 San Francisco, well, I'm sorry. We joined the Marines, he 197 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.200 stole the weapons. He was going to be court martially escaped, 198 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:32.919 and he comes back and he links up with Leonard 199 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.679 Lake in a little town called Philo in northern California. 200 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.519 Now we spoke of the book and getting back to 201 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.559 the book The Collector, the fictional tale of a man 202 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.440 who was a butterfly collector who fantasized about collecting a 203 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:49.440 woman instead one day acts upon his urges. Now, this 204 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:53.279 book was Leonard Lake's favorite and why was it his 205 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.440 favorite and what was it about The Collector that interested 206 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:57.200 in him so much? 207 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.559 Well, he read it as a teenager, and I think 208 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:04.679 he began this idea of having a woman as a captive, 209 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.679 as have a complete control over a woman. But his 210 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:14.480 was a perverse view. The protagonist in Fowls book just 211 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.360 wanted to be loved. Leonard wanted a six slave. 212 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.399 Now there's another central character to this story and her 213 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.679 name is Claire Lynn Baalis or Cricket her nickname, And 214 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:30.360 you describe as the girlfriend, ex wife slash girlfriend of 215 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:31.080 Leonard Lake. 216 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:32.360 Who was she? 217 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.960 When did they meet and how close were they? How 218 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.960 well did Cricket really know Leonard Lake? 219 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.679 While Leonard was moving around from town to town after 220 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:51.159 getting out of the Marines. He was a pseudo photographer. 221 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.759 He lured young women and for various methods to lure 222 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.480 them into posing. The usually tried to get the post 223 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:01.919 nude for him. He found at one point in northern California, 224 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:06.919 a man who owned a goat that had been its 225 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.279 horn transformed a single horn to make it look like 226 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.240 a unicorn. Leonard saw that as a great attraction to 227 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:16.320 young girls. He took it to the Renaissance pleasure Fair 228 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.360 in Marin County, north of San Francisco. And while he 229 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.159 was there demonstrating the goat and trying to lure young 230 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:27.519 women to pose, this young woman came by, Claire Lynne 231 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:32.440 Bella's cricket and they really hit it off together. She 232 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.559 was equal to him in his weird sense of humor, 233 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:42.320 his jokes, and he's interests in sex. And they became 234 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.840 lovers and eventually married and eventually divorced, but they continued 235 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.360 their relationship together for the rest of his life. 236 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.559 Now you say that they shared a mutual interest in sex. 237 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.720 How important was sex to Leonard Lake and what were 238 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:02.159 some of the features of the sexual desires even early 239 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:07.600 on before his bunker was realized and was constructed. What 240 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.320 were some of the features of a sex life that 241 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:11.639 may or may not be in a precursor to some 242 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:14.879 of the events that happened later. What was his interest 243 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:16.840 like in what were some of the features of that 244 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:17.600 sex life? 245 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.480 Well, actually she went along with the idea of capturing 246 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.120 a woman and using him in a menagetoi forcing a 247 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:27.120 woman to be in managertwa with him. But they didn't 248 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.840 have to force it. In some cases they met young 249 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.559 women who were very willing to perform with them. They 250 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:38.240 were both highly experimental in sexuality. They one time, at 251 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.320 one point made a tape of themselves and that was 252 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.559 shown in the trial later to show that cricket bellas 253 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:51.320 was it was probably culpable. And the murders that happened later. 254 00:14:53.639 --> 00:15:00.320 Okay, the Lake Leonard Lake relocated and put his sex 255 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.919 safe slave plan into action. Whose property was it? Where 256 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:11.840 he did this construction of this bunker and whose property 257 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.720 was this? And give us a little bit of background 258 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:17.720 on the construction of the bunker itself and how this 259 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.399 his plan to have a sex slave came to fruition. 260 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.039 What was the what was the turn of events that 261 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.679 led Leonard Lake to be able to begin achieving his 262 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.279 his long, long time fantasy. 263 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.320 Well, let's back up a little ways at Filo where 264 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.919 he met Charles Ang, where Charles Ain connected with him. 265 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.360 He and he and his wife Cricket were living in Filo, 266 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:45.799 operating a little motel. Charlie shows up and they're working. 267 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.840 The three of them are living together. But because Charlie 268 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.639 had had stolen those weapons and was a fugitive from 269 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.879 the Marines, Leonard also had stolen some weapons. 270 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:59.879 Wait, Lucky Land, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 271 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.559 This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 272 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.399 the weather's five. But we're just going to circle up 273 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.639 here a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 274 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.159 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 275 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.480 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 276 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:14.720 and start getting lucky. 277 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399 Pay for free at lucky landslipes dot com. Are you 278 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.200 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 279 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.399 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details 280 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:27.200 and burglaries. 281 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.240 The FBI got wind of it and raided the place, 282 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.120 captured Charlie and send him to send him for a 283 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.759 trial and eventually wound up in Levenworth. Lake was also captured, 284 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.960 but went to jail and his wife put up the 285 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.080 bail and he became a fugitive from then on, operating 286 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.799 under various fake names, and he moved around to various 287 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:54.320 places in California on the run. He started building that 288 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:59.840 bunker in three different sites, but it just didn't work out. Eventually, 289 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.679 he moved to a little hamlet in the Gold Country 290 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.000 in Calaveras County in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, 291 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.000 into a house owned by Cricket's father, and it's very 292 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.960 rural way at the end of a long, narrow driveway, 293 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.240 and he decided that was going to be the final 294 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.200 site and he went to work and it took him 295 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.839 six months to finally build that concrete block bunker and 296 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:28.759 with a secret room inside it covered by a hidden 297 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.559 shelves that were actually concealed door, and it was a 298 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:36.920 sale for his six slaves. So on that property in Willseyville, 299 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.480 he actually his fantasy came to fruition to have a bunker. 300 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:44.960 And then when Charlie got out of Leavenworth prison, he 301 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.480 rejoined Lake and that's when the murders began. 302 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.200 Okay, Now, Leonard Lake had kept a written diary for 303 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.319 many years outlining his ghoulish fantasies while all the necessary 304 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:59.000 construction was being done on the property in preparation for 305 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.839 the Secret Dungeon. Leonard Lake, in preparation for the Secret Dungeon, 306 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.200 recorded a video diary outlining the progress of the construction, 307 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.480 but also stating his philosophy in life. And I quote 308 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.799 this tape which you are hearing now is going to 309 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.680 be the lead in of the various phases of construction 310 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.000 of a building which hopefully will be the first of 311 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.720 a series of underground buildings. The main emphasis of the building, 312 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.680 the whole justification for its expense and its effort, will 313 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.119 be a hidden portion, a secret room, if we can 314 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.279 call it that, that will house a cell, a jail cell, 315 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.960 if you will. The purpose of that cell will be 316 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.400 the imprisonment of a young lady who probably at this 317 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.400 moment is unknown to me. Whether I can do this 318 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.240 or not will remain to be seen. Obviously, I have 319 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.799 never done such a thing before, and it may not work. However, 320 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.880 I want to try. I want to try. Life as 321 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.319 I am living, it is boring. The challenge of this project. 322 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.920 The excitement, the thrill of it will be citing experience 323 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.240 even if it fails, as long as I don't get caught. 324 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.319 It's very attractive. It's something that I fantasized daily about. 325 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.079 We'll see. I don't think there's much more to say 326 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.759 on the subject. This hopefully will be a mystery. I 327 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:14.559 can hardly wait. 328 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:16.200 Now. 329 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.680 What was Leonard Lake's basic philosophy regarding women which he 330 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:24.839 included in the same incredible video diary, which is. 331 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:29.079 Very simple, Dan that women should be used at his 332 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.799 whim when he wanted them, and should be put back 333 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.680 on a shelf or in that little secret cell when 334 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.839 he didn't want them, and he had absolutely no value 335 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.640 on their lives at all. To him, they were nothing 336 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.880 but something to be used. That tape you've just described, 337 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.519 he made himself. He set up on a tripod and 338 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.440 sat in a brown chair in the Willseyville property and 339 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.960 tape that in February of nineteen eighty three. It was 340 00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:00.160 later called the Light Philosophy tape. 341 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:05.440 Incredible. Now you say the construction took about six months, 342 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:09.799 and after that Charles Ing reunited with Leonard Lake. How 343 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.079 long is it before they begin to abduct someone and 344 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:20.000 how long till they kill and who is their first victim. 345 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:24.960 Actually, Charlie joined him before the construction was finished, because 346 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.640 he actually they're photographs with Charlie ain't helping build that bunker. 347 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:32.319 And it was some time, not very long after it 348 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.039 was finished. But we need to back up again because 349 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:40.039 Lake's first victim murder victim, incredibly was probably his own 350 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:46.000 younger brother. In December nineteen eighty two, Donald Lake, who 351 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:49.279 was somewhat I don't know, it's an old fashioned term retarded. 352 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:54.559 He had some mental disabilities, and Lake his whole life 353 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.279 was very denigrating toward his younger brother, who was six 354 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:05.359 years younger, and criticizing for being collecting Social Security disability payments, 355 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:09.279 saying that he was just a maggot own society. He 356 00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:12.559 didn't deserve to live. But one time he shows up 357 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.240 in San Francisco, where his brother was living with his relatives, 358 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.519 and said, Oh, I have a great job for Donald 359 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.839 up north. He's going to go with me. He left 360 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.519 the Lake and was never seen again. But Lake suddenly 361 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.880 showed up in various places around the state using the 362 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:31.839 name Donald at Lake and collecting the Social Security disability 363 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.799 check that was probably his first murder victim was his 364 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:39.279 own younger brother. His second murder victim was probably the 365 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:42.319 best man at his wedding, a man named Charles Gunnar, 366 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.079 a very heavy set fellow who had known Lake for 367 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:50.559 many years and had been a friend. But Gunnar was 368 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:56.640 also collecting disability payments. He disappeared in May nineteen eighty three, 369 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.559 and Lake was suddenly using his name where he went, 370 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:07.200 So those murders preceded anything Charles Ing was involved in. Also, 371 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.839 while Lake was living in Haye Ashbury in San Francisco, 372 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.440 selling drugs for a living, several other people, a young 373 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:22.839 man named Randy Jacobson, a musician named Maurice Rock, and 374 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.720 a young woman named Cheryl O'Carroll all vanished. Their remains 375 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.599 were later found up in the will just pieces of 376 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.839 their bones were found up in the Willseyville property. So 377 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:40.839 the first victim that Charles Ing was involved was a 378 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.359 family of three, Harvey Dubbs, his wife and their little 379 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:50.160 little infant son, who lived in San Francisco and owned 380 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:56.839 some very exotic, i should say, advanced video equipment. In 381 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.200 nineteen eighty four, everyone didn't have a video camera, but 382 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.599 he advertised he had video equipment and would do special 383 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.920 filmings for people. Lake shows up with Charlie uh and 384 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:14.039 that that family three suddenly vanished. So that was probably 385 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.079 the first murder in which Charles Ing was involved. 386 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:20.640 Now, I spoke at the beginning of the program about 387 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.200 Leonard Lake and Charles Ing's fantasy of abducting women and 388 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.839 keeping them as sex slaves in their in their dungeon, 389 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.519 in their in their homemade dungeon. But you spoke of 390 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.759 Leonard Lake's first victim being his own brother, and then 391 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.279 his second victim likely most likely being his best man 392 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:43.519 in his own wedding. Why were these people murdered? In 393 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:46.839 the end, when the trial is finished and you've gathered 394 00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:51.079 all the information is why is this part of Leonard 395 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.319 Lake's master plan? Why does it fit in with the 396 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:57.000 rest of his plan to abduct and kidnap a kill 397 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.200 these people that are not women, but just have to 398 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.559 be people in his in his circle, people that he's 399 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:04.160 connected with. 400 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.480 Those murders were for nothing more than the minor amount 401 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.880