WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Welcome back to dot net rocks. Where back

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<v Speaker 1>on Terra Firma. I am anyway in my house. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Carl Franklin, and Richard is on the road and you're aware.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in Haldmun, the Netherlands, okay for a user group

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<v Speaker 2>talk before I fly home tomorrow. But I've been, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>We did Orlando at DEVENU session, then over to Lisbon

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<v Speaker 2>for as your Dev Summit. Then I went and did TDC,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a Trondheim Developer conference in Trondheim, Norway, and

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<v Speaker 2>then down to Hello Stavanger in Stavanger, Norway and hung

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<v Speaker 2>out with Alan Henderson. And then this week was tech

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<v Speaker 2>O Rama and Utrecht and me.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to Orlando and I came home and then

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<v Speaker 1>I went on a cruise with a bunch of TV

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<v Speaker 1>chefs cool yeah, and was that fun. It was so

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<v Speaker 1>much fun. And just walking down the hallway and running

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<v Speaker 1>into like Mark Murphy and Alex Cornaschelley and Andrew Zimmer

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<v Speaker 1>and Alton Brown. Just really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>The Norwegian cruise line boat food suck. Oh no, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but the restaurants were pretty good. But like the general

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<v Speaker 1>buffet where everybody feeds at the trough, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>just horrible, no flavor, no, you know, just just bulk food, nasty.

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<v Speaker 1>It's funny. But the restaurants were great. And the chef's

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<v Speaker 1>we're taking over the restaurants and serving their own dishes,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really fun. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, so let's talk about because this is episode

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy five, let's talk about what happened that year.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll start so politically, Vietnam War is over, yeah I

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<v Speaker 1>think it is. The US embassy is evacuated in Cambodia.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the Kamara Rouge advanced on Non ten?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh right, yeah, now we get to the killing fields.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. There were two assassination attempts on Cherald Ford, President

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<v Speaker 1>Gerald Ford, both of which failed.

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<v Speaker 2>In culture Jaws, Oh man, dude, Steven Spielberg's big hit.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, still a great You know, I think more people

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<v Speaker 1>are afraid to watch Jaws than like Friday the Thirteenth.

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<v Speaker 2>You're probably right.

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<v Speaker 1>But the fact of the matter is it's not a

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<v Speaker 1>gory movie. It's just a tense movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it's that music is killing, right, John Williams Man,

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<v Speaker 2>John Williams made it.

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<v Speaker 1>So some other movies Dog Day Afternoon, One Flew Over

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<v Speaker 1>the Cuckoo's Nest were released next year. It gets really

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<v Speaker 1>really awesome for movies and TV. Wheel of Fortune premiered

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<v Speaker 1>and Saturday Night Live debuted Wheel of Fortune in January,

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<v Speaker 1>Saturday Night Live in October. Okay, now to the things

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<v Speaker 1>that matter to us. Microsoft was founded.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go Albuquerque, Paul.

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<v Speaker 1>Allen and Bill Gates, the Pat Rock mood rings, popular trends,

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<v Speaker 1>the first black manager in Major League Baseball Frank Robinson. Nice,

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<v Speaker 1>definite milestone there in the first black golfer in the Masters,

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<v Speaker 1>Lee Elder Way to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, progress, Yeah, So.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have anything in science and tech a space

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<v Speaker 1>that you want to talk about in nineteen seventy five.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean you mentioned Microsoft, of course, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>also because the Altar eighty eight hundred had finally been released.

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<v Speaker 2>It was in the magazine in nineteen seventy four and

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<v Speaker 2>we mentioned it there, but now it's actually available for

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<v Speaker 2>sale in January. Yeah. Also released in nineteen seventy five

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<v Speaker 2>is the sixty five oh two processor. Wow made my motorola,

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<v Speaker 2>So the one that will show up in the Apple

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<v Speaker 2>two in the sixty four Even the NES was actually

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<v Speaker 2>powered by sixty five oh two. And in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>five you could buy a sixty five oh two processor

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty five dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, and because who needs those things? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>And in video game history, nineteen seventy five is the

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<v Speaker 2>year that the Colossal Cave Adventure is written. Wow, running

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<v Speaker 2>on a running on a mini computer, written by Will Crowther.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the famous It is dark and you're likely

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<v Speaker 2>to be eaten by a groove or you're in a

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<v Speaker 2>twisty maze of passages all alike. Yeah, that's that's that.

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<v Speaker 2>That becomes Zork many years later. But the original version

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<v Speaker 2>is cle.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so these are like the Infocom text adventure games.

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<v Speaker 2>Right well before that. Yeah, Infocom you know use that

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<v Speaker 2>the Temple Colossal Cave is the level. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>original original original.

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<v Speaker 1>Did I hear in the news that EA got bought.

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<v Speaker 2>EA has gone private. Electronics no longer a publicly held company. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they got they're now gone private. We'll see what that represents.

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<v Speaker 2>But a conglomerate of organizations, including some Saudi entities, have

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<v Speaker 2>taken it private.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Over on the space side, two sets of missions that

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<v Speaker 2>I think are very important. The Viking Margelanders launched this year,

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<v Speaker 2>but we'll talk about them next to you in the

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<v Speaker 2>next show when they land, because that's what the get cool.

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<v Speaker 2>But the Soviets flew Venera nine and ten, launched in June,

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<v Speaker 2>landed in October, and sent the first images from the

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<v Speaker 2>surface of another planet. The Viking will do that from Mars,

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<v Speaker 2>but it won't. It will happen later. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is Venus we're talking about, so temperatures

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<v Speaker 2>so hot it melt lead and raining sulfur, dioxides, all

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<v Speaker 2>that fluff. It's like dangerous there. And so while they

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<v Speaker 2>make it to the surface, they do not last very long,

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<v Speaker 2>just a few hours, and then they're destroyed by the

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<v Speaker 2>forces that are under them. Any more important. In July

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<v Speaker 2>of nineteen seventy five, the Joint Apollo so Use mission.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was an Apollo capsule and a Soyused capsule

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<v Speaker 2>meeting up in space basically to do a handshake.

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<v Speaker 1>So back when America and Russia liked each other.

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<v Speaker 2>Well they really didn't, and this was a big deal

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to deal with. This is the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the Cold War and they're trying to find a way forward.

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<v Speaker 2>But there was a lot of stuff for the hoops

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<v Speaker 2>they had to jump through. One. You know, the Soviet

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<v Speaker 2>designs and the American designs were very different from each other.

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<v Speaker 2>Soviet designs were very much automated. The cosmonauts did not

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<v Speaker 2>operate the machine much. It was flown from the ground

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<v Speaker 2>and that was concerning, and they didn't have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of redundancy. If something failed, they were supposed to abort

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<v Speaker 2>the mission. That was the point, either everything works or stop.

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<v Speaker 2>Where Apollo was very could be hand flown. There was

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<v Speaker 2>definitely a crew in charge of the vehicle, multiple redundancies,

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<v Speaker 2>so things could break and they could switch over. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was a challenge there. But here was the real problem.

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<v Speaker 2>The docking systems not only were different, but they were

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<v Speaker 2>what we call probe and drogue. That is to say,

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<v Speaker 2>there is a probe but a sticky outbit that has

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<v Speaker 2>to go into a drogue and any bit, and neither

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<v Speaker 2>side wanted to be the any bit. See any childish

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<v Speaker 2>male behavior here, Yeah, so uh never changes. The solution

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<v Speaker 2>was was called the androgynoust peripheral attached system, which by

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<v Speaker 2>the way is actually a better solution where both sides

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<v Speaker 2>coupled exactly the same way, so you don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>match up the pairs, right. The problem with probe and

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<v Speaker 2>drogue is what if you got two vehicles and both

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<v Speaker 2>that probes on them, you can't dock. So this was

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning of a universal adapter system that is what

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<v Speaker 2>is used everywhere then on. But the other issue here

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<v Speaker 2>was that the atmospheres in the capsules were different the APO.

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<v Speaker 2>The APOLLO system used five psi of pure oxygen in

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<v Speaker 2>the cabin, where the SOU system used fifteen psi like

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<v Speaker 2>normal atmosphere pressure of nitrogen oxygen combination, and so they

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<v Speaker 2>you couldn't match them up.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So you had to have like a holding area

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<v Speaker 1>between the two.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. So the androgenous perphil attached system was not

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<v Speaker 2>only a neutral docking system where two probes could dock

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<v Speaker 2>into it. So everybody got to be a probe, but

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<v Speaker 2>also provided a common atmosphere for that. Now, the SOUS

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<v Speaker 2>also opened the pod bay doors. Holl that's it. So

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<v Speaker 2>the Sous actually modified their system to reduce their pressure

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<v Speaker 2>down to ten psi tapsule, which made things a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit simpler. But yeah, they would climb into this locker

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<v Speaker 2>between the two in the in the apaths and that's

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<v Speaker 2>where they were able to shake hands and so forth,

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<v Speaker 2>mixing the atmospherees.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's cool. So this is like I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about software, man.

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<v Speaker 2>But there you go. There there's a history bit.

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<v Speaker 1>This is super That was really cool and I'm glad

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing this. All right, Well, let's get started here, started,

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<v Speaker 1>I say, but let's move on with better no framework,

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<v Speaker 1>roll the music.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome, boar man, what you got?

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<v Speaker 1>So about three years ago, episode eighteen eighteen, we did

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<v Speaker 1>a show at NDC making open source work for Everyone

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<v Speaker 1>with David Whitney.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember that, Yeah, I remember, published late in the year

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of f bombs dropped as I recall.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah, yeah, there was some anger there and you

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<v Speaker 1>know a lot of the well, one big issue that

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<v Speaker 1>we honed in on was how do we incentivize open

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<v Speaker 1>source project maintainers to continue without compensation, right, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think one of the things. I don't know if I

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<v Speaker 1>suggested it or you did, or one of us said,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there should be something built in a new

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<v Speaker 1>get where you could contribute right right there when you

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<v Speaker 1>download the package, you should be given an option. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you want to contribute to this project. Well, it turns

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<v Speaker 1>out that's a thing now, Yay. Sponsorship on new GAT

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<v Speaker 1>is a thing that's cool. And there's an article that

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to link to announcing sponsorship on NEWCATA that

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<v Speaker 1>shows how it works.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's just easier for people to support the

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<v Speaker 2>projects they depend on. I check. Yeah, I like that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot. Yeah, awesome, dude, nice find.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, that's it. That's what I got. So we're moving forward. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>one step at a time. So who's talking to us today?

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<v Speaker 1>Richard and grabbed a comment of Show nineteen seventy one.

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<v Speaker 1>Just a few shows ago, our friend Egle Hanson talking

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<v Speaker 1>a little about valuable testing. I just saw him at

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<v Speaker 1>the conferences as well, and this was where we were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about testing approaches and systems for making effective tests, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like that was all about it's like it's just testing

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<v Speaker 1>that makes your system more reliable, more valuable. And our

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<v Speaker 1>friend our Dallas, that's Steve Smith commented where said we

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<v Speaker 1>were talking about naming strategies around testing, and so he said,

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<v Speaker 1>for organizing a naming test, I'm a fan of following

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<v Speaker 1>SRP or single responsibility paradigms.

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<v Speaker 2>With test classes. What this generally looks like is a

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<v Speaker 2>test class per method being tested. This gets rid of

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<v Speaker 2>classes that end with the name tests, although you may

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<v Speaker 2>certainly have a folder called class test that holds individual

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<v Speaker 2>test classes one per method being tested. Names of the

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<v Speaker 2>test classes should be some class, some method. Then put

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<v Speaker 2>it underscore in there if you like, and your casing

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<v Speaker 2>is up to you. Name the individual test scenario being tested,

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<v Speaker 2>such as if you read the class name followed by

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<v Speaker 2>the method name, it would describe a use case for

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<v Speaker 2>the expectation. So calculator ad return some gives two integers

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<v Speaker 2>or calculator ad throws given null argument. Now with some

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<v Speaker 2>test fail, it's clear to anyone technical or not which

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<v Speaker 2>use cases failed.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Steve doesn't like set standards no but for everybody,

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<v Speaker 1>but I love his suggestions. They always make a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of sense. He's a thoughtful man, there's no twoice about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Saw him too at the conference as usual, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>soft spoken, thoughtful. You got to listen carefully and you'll

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<v Speaker 2>learn some things. And I suspect he already has a

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<v Speaker 2>copy of Music to code By it.

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<v Speaker 1>I know he is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you so much for you're comment at a

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<v Speaker 2>copy of music Go By. He's on its way to you.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you'd like a copy of music Go buy,

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<v Speaker 2>write a comment on the website dot at Rocks dot

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<v Speaker 2>com or on the Facebook to publish every show there

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<v Speaker 2>and if you comment there at reading the show, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>tell your copy of us to go.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Steve is one of the first contributors to

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<v Speaker 1>that project, and he uses music to code By. I

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<v Speaker 1>think he was the one who says to soothe his

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<v Speaker 1>agitated dogs so they can go to sleep.

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<v Speaker 2>That's cool, that's a good idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right, well let's move on here. It's Mattias Carlson.

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<v Speaker 1>He's back, or Mattias, I think we call you right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's correct. Yes, a friend of ours from Sweden. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a senior architect and partner at w com or Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's it. In Gothenburg, Sweden over twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>years of professional experience software development, Microsoft Developer Technologies MVP,

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<v Speaker 1>and the dot net and DevOps categories. He's also deeply

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<v Speaker 1>involved in the dot net open source community and is

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<v Speaker 1>probably most known there as one of the lead maintainers

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<v Speaker 1>of the dot Net Foundation project Cake And you thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was just for dessert?

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<v Speaker 3>Aesome, that's the point I want to bring cake and people.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back, Matias, thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's be good to be back.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome. All right, what have you been up to, friend, presumer?

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<v Speaker 2>Your cake centric? Is you're very cake browne.

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<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, let's just start with refresh our memories about cake.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So Cake is a cross platform, cross environment, cross service,

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<v Speaker 3>open source built orchestra and framework and.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not very ambitious, just a little slice of Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's why I like, it's hard time time to explain.

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<v Speaker 3>But we've been around for a while, yeah, yeah, since

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<v Speaker 3>twenty fourteen, and today, like what we're probably going to

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<v Speaker 3>talk a little about is like in May this year

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<v Speaker 3>we dot not pre before Micro just launched that you

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<v Speaker 3>will now be able to just dot not and a

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<v Speaker 3>c shop file because that has never been done before.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was like, hey, hey, that's what's Kate been

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<v Speaker 3>doing for for almost eleven years. Now we'll essentially be

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<v Speaker 3>able to put your C short code in one script

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<v Speaker 3>file and have a script drunner to do it. And

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<v Speaker 3>instead of yelling on internet and social media like they

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<v Speaker 3>stole our idea or whatever, I have throll over. The

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<v Speaker 3>punches are like, oh, I can throw away a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of code and this is like a perfect fit for Cake,

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<v Speaker 3>which means we're going to introduce KK SDK.

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<v Speaker 2>So interesting. So what does it mean to you have

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<v Speaker 2>a Cake SDK, Well.

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<v Speaker 3>It's okay. We ever had the Shop DSL which was

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<v Speaker 3>the script runner, We had the Frosting which was a

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<v Speaker 3>console application. Now we will have a Cake SDK, and

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<v Speaker 3>that means that we have moved everything that was code

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<v Speaker 3>generation wise in the script runner. We have moved it

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<v Speaker 3>into an regular dot STKA package, which means essentially you

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<v Speaker 3>can just do a single C. Shop Virus is a

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<v Speaker 3>new support dot K and we will bring all the

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<v Speaker 3>goodness of Cake by just adding an STK reference to

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<v Speaker 3>to your product. Because with a new project less files

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<v Speaker 3>the support for does not SK. They have a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of pre prepotal directors. You can have things like SDKs,

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<v Speaker 3>MS built properties, packages, projects, and things like that, which

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<v Speaker 3>means for us has been really good because then we

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<v Speaker 3>will get things like vis code support out of the box,

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<v Speaker 3>which has been the pain point for us sometimes because

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<v Speaker 3>we had all on language server for Cake because we

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<v Speaker 3>added out shually. So this will mean a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>good things for us, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So, what's a typical scenario where a developer might

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<v Speaker 1>feel the need to use something like Cake if they're

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to use them as builder, they're having a

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<v Speaker 1>particularly difficult build, what would what would be the complexity

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<v Speaker 1>of their situation?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think the main scenario is like if you

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<v Speaker 3>have more than your dot not pack, if you're a

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<v Speaker 3>scenario has something more on that. But also if you

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<v Speaker 3>want something like usually today we have all all the

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<v Speaker 3>cis have Jamo yeah, I hate it, and jammal is

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<v Speaker 3>get get like everything you get one space wrong and

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<v Speaker 3>like usually the flow is well, I open a text file,

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<v Speaker 3>yammo file, right, I enter a few esoteric tasks that

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<v Speaker 3>are better than it used to be with us, and

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<v Speaker 3>they still it's it's source control is where you can

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<v Speaker 3>follow what happens here.

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<v Speaker 1>You're preaching the choir mane.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's like you have something that's more like an engineer,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you have something that's in source control is version,

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<v Speaker 3>but it has no discoverability and you have lack everything

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<v Speaker 3>of a real program language. And that's the advantage if there's

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<v Speaker 3>something like it, which is c sharp, is that you

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<v Speaker 3>have things like, oh, I can use I can to

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<v Speaker 3>take one string and concatenect with other in a language

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<v Speaker 3>I know. I don't have to look it up somewhere

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<v Speaker 3>because has there Jamal and National DevOps as their Jamal

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<v Speaker 3>and GIT clubs as their Jammal. But here with Kate,

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<v Speaker 3>you get one sea sharp the sea shop you used daily,

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<v Speaker 3>and you get a set of we call them alysses

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<v Speaker 3>to get a set of methods that are strongly type

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<v Speaker 3>static methods for things like dot m bield or dot pack,

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<v Speaker 3>or we have all these set of methods to work

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<v Speaker 3>for the file system like clean directories, or you can

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<v Speaker 3>do I want to copy files, I want to sip files.

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<v Speaker 3>All those are strongly typed C sharp methods and they

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<v Speaker 3>have strongly type parameters. You don't need to do like, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>what is this version parameter? It's a string or is

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<v Speaker 3>it an int or whatever is it? We will have

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<v Speaker 3>that in a type either parameter or class for your

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<v Speaker 3>for use. That's one. And we also have this sense

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<v Speaker 3>of a task, so you can essentially have a workflow

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<v Speaker 3>where you can define dependencies like before I build, I

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<v Speaker 3>want to restore, and before I test I want to build.

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<v Speaker 3>You can define that Shane in C sharp. And also

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<v Speaker 3>the biggest advantage you can run it locally before it

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<v Speaker 3>push it because usually this like the workplace, I edit

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<v Speaker 3>my YAMO file, I committed and push it. Eventually something

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<v Speaker 3>happens somewhere advice while I go get my coffee, and

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<v Speaker 3>then I went in for the agent to start, and

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<v Speaker 3>then it installs dot net or something, and then you

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<v Speaker 3>get an error online twenty two something something because I

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't find the file. And so in that way, cake

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<v Speaker 3>will improve the feedback cycle because you can try it

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<v Speaker 3>out locally first and get feedback quickly. You can also

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<v Speaker 3>get all the intellicens and everything for everything, so you

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<v Speaker 3>get a better develop a few cycle. So that's I

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<v Speaker 3>think what the CAKE brings to the tail.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you're sticking with one language, right, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>not hopping I mean not that really consider a link

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<v Speaker 2>yamal language. But it's still you know there is a

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<v Speaker 2>syntax and an organization to it, mostly involving indents that

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<v Speaker 2>that you have to deal with, like I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>urgency sharp is nobody cares what you're indents or do

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<v Speaker 2>what you want? You want you want braces on every

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<v Speaker 2>on a separate line each time like a crazy person,

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<v Speaker 2>knock yourself out, that's fine, lay it out however you want.

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<v Speaker 3>And also things like upload artifacts, well that can be

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<v Speaker 3>a you need to find a toss that is upload

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<v Speaker 3>something something or and we have us like get of

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<v Speaker 3>actions dot to come on dot upload artifacts, right, which

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<v Speaker 3>is to coverbel and it will and we al those

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<v Speaker 3>abstractions like we have we have typed if it's a

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<v Speaker 3>file pof or if it's a directory pof, which means

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<v Speaker 3>intent is clear just by looking at intelligence and method documentation, right.

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<v Speaker 3>And also one thing that's usually you don't know what

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<v Speaker 3>often by context inlock, what's the current directory or what

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<v Speaker 3>are the things that that and that's you will just

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<v Speaker 3>get by the VAUT because if you do, it doesn't pack.

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<v Speaker 3>You'll lower it ends there and you can test it

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<v Speaker 3>locally and then it will work on c I too,

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<v Speaker 3>because it will end up in the artifacs folder because

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<v Speaker 3>you can test that locally and you can upload it.

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<v Speaker 1>So you said orchestration, but you're really focused on build automation, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean there's no do you touch containers at all

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<v Speaker 1>or any of that.

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<v Speaker 3>That's actually what anything I can do almost the YAMA

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<v Speaker 3>we can do and that. So you can build containers,

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<v Speaker 3>and you can even now with ten and you can

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<v Speaker 3>even now build your with SDK, you can actually build

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<v Speaker 3>your script into a container, so you can have that

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<v Speaker 3>pre build the running so which means you can really

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<v Speaker 3>you can have something that's yester and pre compiled and

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<v Speaker 3>have really good stockup times.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not a run time orchestrator like you know

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<v Speaker 1>you would have with Kubernetes or something like that. You

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<v Speaker 1>really focused on building, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's agnostic. It's it's more orchestrating the tasks you.

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<v Speaker 4>Need to do to be able to to be able

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<v Speaker 4>to like if you want to push the registry, you

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<v Speaker 4>pull down from a registry, build art facts, or package

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<v Speaker 4>up your output for a published or.

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<v Speaker 1>So now we know what cake is. You have some

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<v Speaker 1>stks that you want to talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's like the new SDK, and that's essentially what

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<v Speaker 3>we've done, is like how can we take all like

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<v Speaker 3>the simplicity and before Like, well, if you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>see the current state of CAKE is we have a

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<v Speaker 3>dot Nea tool which is essentially interprets a CAKE file,

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<v Speaker 3>which is uses the Grostling compiler to compile. And now

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<v Speaker 3>with SDK, we will ask you just to be top

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<v Speaker 3>level console application and just reference that, which means that

403
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<v Speaker 3>the whole things with bootstrapping is almost the only thing

404
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.799
<v Speaker 3>you need to have installed now to use CAKE is

405
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:42.839
<v Speaker 3>the dott ESK, which has simplified. It's almost like a journey.

406
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<v Speaker 3>But with the first Cake we were DONA framework and

407
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<v Speaker 3>then you had to have a new get packaged that

408
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<v Speaker 3>someone needed some PowerShell bootstrapper to pull down. And then

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<v Speaker 3>with doctor q twe the Doctor tool system game and

410
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<v Speaker 3>then we could do installed tools and that was almost

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<v Speaker 3>like the next iteration with this file application and like

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<v Speaker 3>one thing you need is so that's ky and you

413
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<v Speaker 3>can go on with simply and we are with s K.

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<v Speaker 3>Also is that we everything that we know a love

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<v Speaker 3>from CAKE, like we have all this like we have

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<v Speaker 3>modules which can replace internal it's in Cake you can

417
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<v Speaker 3>things like logging and five system access and things that

418
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<v Speaker 3>that's pull just work also with SDK, so you can

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<v Speaker 3>also add a NuGet package reference and I will you

420
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<v Speaker 3>will automatically code generate that for you. We have things

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<v Speaker 3>like the College ass was our helpper commands for things.

422
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:32.920
<v Speaker 3>We have loads that the IM built in for things

423
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.279
<v Speaker 3>like that that build do NuGet restore and things. But

424
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.799
<v Speaker 3>there are several things like some messages to teams or

425
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.400
<v Speaker 3>Slack or Twitter or things that the community provided and

426
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.200
<v Speaker 3>those of us add the package reference and the skillsomatically

427
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:48.000
<v Speaker 3>generate the proxim methods needed for those are just they're

428
00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 3>just available for you to use in the euroscript or

429
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:56.160
<v Speaker 3>in your console application. It's not so that that's essentially

430
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.559
<v Speaker 3>what sk have done. All the magic bits that script

431
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.279
<v Speaker 3>undergund we do just as a regular or not that

432
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 3>product now. So it simplifies a lot of things for us,

433
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.559
<v Speaker 3>and it's just we don't need to think about all

434
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:12.000
<v Speaker 3>the special things. It's just the DOTT console application essentially

435
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 3>for their use now and.

436
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 2>It's just make it immediately thinking about the security context

437
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.720
<v Speaker 2>on this that now you can run with lower security

438
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:22.200
<v Speaker 2>context in the script rather than when you're running this

439
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>directly from the developers perspective and in the developer's security context,

440
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.559
<v Speaker 2>so it probably is a bit safer, especially if we

441
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.319
<v Speaker 2>have multiple contributors where not everybody has to have make

442
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.279
<v Speaker 2>rights at all. They could they could be able to

443
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:37.000
<v Speaker 2>run separately.

444
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.039
<v Speaker 3>And that's the cool thing about having container support now

445
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.440
<v Speaker 3>is that essentially you can do something in container. You

446
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:46.480
<v Speaker 3>can assentially mount the current repository and build in an

447
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.519
<v Speaker 3>isolated environment, which is really cool if you want to

448
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.079
<v Speaker 3>test stuff without affecting the developers environments. So I don't

449
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.519
<v Speaker 3>think you can help pre made developer containers that builds

450
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.640
<v Speaker 3>everything without their needing to know what dependencies that need

451
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.720
<v Speaker 3>to be installed and things, so that's also good.

452
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Interesting, it's literally like I want to set build it.

453
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.319
<v Speaker 2>I set and make that is essentially set up this

454
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:09.880
<v Speaker 2>environment for me so I can do these tests and

455
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 2>tear it back down again. Like that gets really powerful.

456
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>That's cool, man. I like it a lot, and it

457
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.480
<v Speaker 2>should be thinking more broadly about how people want to

458
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.279
<v Speaker 2>build software now.

459
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 3>And then I think there also little like that you

460
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.359
<v Speaker 3>reuse the tools that you use daily, so it's very

461
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:29.440
<v Speaker 3>little context switching, and you can use like vs code

462
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:32.240
<v Speaker 3>for what was supported up now with a tenement that

463
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:37.039
<v Speaker 3>we've supported for these product last files. Yeah, but also

464
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.720
<v Speaker 3>they have a path to you can do dot net

465
00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:44.599
<v Speaker 3>project to convert. So actually before you have been stuck

466
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.000
<v Speaker 3>like if something becomes too advanced that you want the

467
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.240
<v Speaker 3>foolish to the idea. Before we the cake script, it

468
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.440
<v Speaker 3>was like something special. Now we can actually just convert

469
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 3>it to a sea shore project and you can use

470
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.920
<v Speaker 3>foolish as due if you if you want, right, So

471
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 3>that's also advantages that we don't do fewer things and

472
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:05.880
<v Speaker 3>had off more to your martuals to support, and we

473
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.240
<v Speaker 3>can focus on our core problems to do bilo automation

474
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.160
<v Speaker 3>and that'd be important.

475
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:13.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well you said build automations for a lot of

476
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:15.680
<v Speaker 2>different things. You want to set up a configuration for

477
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a test lab, you want to go to a pre

478
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.640
<v Speaker 2>prod for some load testing or you know other tests.

479
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Like there's a lot of if I feel like with

480
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:25.880
<v Speaker 2>the SDK approach, it's really shipping it down so I

481
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.359
<v Speaker 2>can write a set of scripts they will run in

482
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.519
<v Speaker 2>all those places, not have to make separate ones for

483
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 2>each other. A lot of cut and pasting.

484
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:33.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's what I mean to cross the environment

485
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.119
<v Speaker 3>because you can have the same build script and then

486
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.880
<v Speaker 3>based on the environment, and that's where where we try it.

487
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Also K provides abstractions. We have things like I am

488
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 3>running on Linux, I'm I running a mac am I

489
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.880
<v Speaker 3>running on get up. We have or not running on

490
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:50.359
<v Speaker 3>things like git Clubs or Ash develops. We have ready

491
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.599
<v Speaker 3>made just pooly on property so you can check which

492
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:55.839
<v Speaker 3>is make it really easy, don't need to find out

493
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.960
<v Speaker 3>which esoteric environments.

494
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:00.640
<v Speaker 5>Variable don't know to know or notice or we have

495
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 5>that already wrapped. So we have support for I don't know,

496
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.039
<v Speaker 5>twelve or thirteen build systems. We add the adams and

497
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.079
<v Speaker 5>go along, which means that you can have the same flow.

498
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.400
<v Speaker 5>So if you want portability to well like now we're

499
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.200
<v Speaker 5>working Asher DeVos, but we want to move to get

500
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 5>up actions, there's very little you need. You can start

501
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.680
<v Speaker 5>that process now and essentially just change which boolean you're

502
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.240
<v Speaker 5>looking at. And also the cake tasks have support for

503
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 5>things like conditionals. You can say that this task we

504
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:31.720
<v Speaker 5>give actions, so we do upload artifacts and GILA actions

505
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 5>and this if you're on Lasher Develops, we do upload

506
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:38.039
<v Speaker 5>artifact using that privider and but the rest of the

507
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:39.400
<v Speaker 5>bill flow is the same.

508
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:41.519
<v Speaker 1>And you support Android in iOS too right.

509
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.119
<v Speaker 3>Well as a target, but that's essentially then you're using

510
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:48.519
<v Speaker 3>something like like MAUI or you're saying that or anything

511
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:53.160
<v Speaker 3>you can like if you can execute like scriptwise. So

512
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 3>the host will be either macros or Linux or Windows

513
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 3>or FreeBSD or something like that. But what you can tower,

514
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:02.759
<v Speaker 3>anything you can build with a dot net scale or

515
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.440
<v Speaker 3>any other scale for that. It's very cool the part

516
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.400
<v Speaker 3>you can automate, and that's where the community steps in.

517
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:12.279
<v Speaker 3>What the audience, because there are several hundred addings add

518
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 3>over years to add things that I don't know about,

519
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:20.200
<v Speaker 3>things like the Android Estcade manager or something something that

520
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't use dailid that's some extension, or things like

521
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:27.119
<v Speaker 3>us AT communicating with slack bard teams or that we

522
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 3>don't want in the box, but you can have it

523
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 3>if you want.

524
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.720
<v Speaker 1>So firm listening to what you just said, it's the

525
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.240
<v Speaker 1>the big takeaway here, friends, is that rather than using

526
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the Cake command line app to do everything, now you

527
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.240
<v Speaker 1>can write your own c sharp apps and call the

528
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:43.920
<v Speaker 1>SDK to do whatever you want to do with the

529
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Cake in your own app.

530
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.599
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, so it's actually the sk just brings it in.

531
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 3>So you have it available everywhere in a regular console application,

532
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 3>so you will have things like dotnut build, or it

533
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.519
<v Speaker 3>just appears by adding a reference to scale.

534
00:27:58.599 --> 00:27:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Ye love it.

535
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Why don't we take break? And then I want to

536
00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:02.920
<v Speaker 2>change cares a little bit here and dig into some

537
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>of these integration.

538
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.759
<v Speaker 1>Sounds good. We'll be right back after these very important messages.

539
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.079
<v Speaker 1>Did you know there's a dot net on aws community.

540
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.759
<v Speaker 1>Follow the social media blogs, YouTube influencers and open source

541
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.519
<v Speaker 1>projects and add your own voice. Get plugged into the

542
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:23.240
<v Speaker 1>dot net on aws community at aws dot Amazon dot com,

543
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>slash dot net.

544
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.839
<v Speaker 2>And we're back. It's dot net rocks. I'm Richard Campbell,

545
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that's Carl Franklin. You know, you're hanging with our buddy Mattias,

546
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 2>who's been poured years of work into kuh and now

547
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:40.640
<v Speaker 2>with the SDK approach. So if you just want to

548
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.640
<v Speaker 2>build into your own app, you can do that. And

549
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.960
<v Speaker 2>I've just been thumbing through the huge number of integrations here.

550
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean the obvious ones like visual Studio and get

551
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.000
<v Speaker 2>have actions and so forth, but boy, there's stuff I've

552
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 2>never used. You know. Heck, there's still Team city support.

553
00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:57.799
<v Speaker 2>Who's got Team City anymore? That's awesome team City.

554
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've had a lot of developers like that, especially

555
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 3>those of that loose hosted solutions, and also what we

556
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 3>see there's also a trend of sometimes like stepping back

557
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.240
<v Speaker 3>from services, especially in Europe, like how can we do

558
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:17.880
<v Speaker 3>more on premise if needed? So that's where often those

559
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.880
<v Speaker 3>systems come in when you're running and none you're hosting yourself.

560
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Even support Jenkins yeah classic, oh yeah, and some of

561
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 2>these are directly indicating some of them looked like the

562
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>third their third party contributors that they actually did this

563
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.160
<v Speaker 2>and put it up on GitHub. So we had this

564
00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.839
<v Speaker 2>conversation about new get contributions and so forth, like how

565
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>much support do you get for this project but you've

566
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>worked on in a long time.

567
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Well had some like Octopus Boiled Team have supported us

568
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.839
<v Speaker 3>some big computers, but like a few small but not

569
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.400
<v Speaker 3>any biggest. But it's been more of a marathon for us.

570
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Like for us, the motivation hasn't been financial. It's been

571
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.920
<v Speaker 3>sure most need to scratch our own inch and solve

572
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:02.720
<v Speaker 3>our own problems.

573
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you've got to build software and you need good

574
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:06.880
<v Speaker 2>tools to make it easy to do so.

575
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so all of us on the team are dot

576
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 3>net developers and especially with me, a few of us

577
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:16.680
<v Speaker 3>are consultants or you work at product companies where this

578
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:20.599
<v Speaker 3>is something that we need to use. And that's why

579
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:22.799
<v Speaker 3>it's good to have we have a whole country organization

580
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 3>and get up with things that all these addings exist

581
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.039
<v Speaker 3>and we can help provide that are in the box

582
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:31.720
<v Speaker 3>so you can find and the if you go like

583
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:34.079
<v Speaker 3>the cake has a tag on you gets you can

584
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:39.319
<v Speaker 3>easily find all those two. But it's hard with Sometimes

585
00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:45.200
<v Speaker 3>with money comes expectations also, so it's usually what I've

586
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.880
<v Speaker 3>done something for money has been me as a consultant

587
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.279
<v Speaker 3>to code for someone, which makes it really easy. Gets clear,

588
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:53.559
<v Speaker 3>it has a boundary as a start and a stop date.

589
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.240
<v Speaker 2>That's not how open source projects work in this no no.

590
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.240
<v Speaker 3>But I mean if you're sometimes hard to explain, like

591
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:06.119
<v Speaker 3>there's some have high demands sometimes so they're very demanding

592
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 3>and their get up issues and and like sorry today

593
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.799
<v Speaker 3>I want to walk the dog and be my kids instead,

594
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 3>So you're not a priority.

595
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.400
<v Speaker 2>But I do my actual job so that I can

596
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:17.599
<v Speaker 2>pay my mortgage.

597
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Weird, but like if you're paying for my work, then

598
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 3>you will get priority. It's not it's like some of

599
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:25.680
<v Speaker 3>the things that that's the worst thing I can say,

600
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.119
<v Speaker 3>like you want to be paid to solve this or

601
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:31.960
<v Speaker 3>but it's it's like if you want me to pay

602
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:35.000
<v Speaker 3>artis you over my customers and my kids and my

603
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:39.440
<v Speaker 3>wife and I want something back. But also sometimes can

604
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:41.400
<v Speaker 3>be I know a couple of years ago there was

605
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.079
<v Speaker 3>like the student from brazila pin me and DM and

606
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 3>he was so nice about it. So we just spend

607
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.039
<v Speaker 3>like a night doing pair programming. So but that was

608
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:52.319
<v Speaker 3>like because I wanted to, And its like one of

609
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.920
<v Speaker 3>the driving factors, like like cakes have been for so

610
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.960
<v Speaker 3>many years, more like in Marathon, it's like not big

611
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.359
<v Speaker 3>bang things, but we had done a little each so

612
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:04.559
<v Speaker 3>we've been stable around. And there's a lot of open

613
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.440
<v Speaker 3>source product that they do a spike and then disappear,

614
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 3>but it's.

615
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Also the thing they needed for their project and then

616
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:12.519
<v Speaker 2>they're gone.

617
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:16.720
<v Speaker 3>But it's almost harder to to do something where you

618
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.319
<v Speaker 3>can have be around like you have, like be around

619
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:25.920
<v Speaker 3>for a decade and still be active. That's harder long

620
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:27.720
<v Speaker 3>term because you need to take care of things, you

621
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 3>have to be you have to like live with decisions

622
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:36.759
<v Speaker 3>you made twenty fifteen or twenty seventeen or that it's

623
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 3>It's like, so I have a couple of interns now

624
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 3>and I have to explain the whole job because we

625
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.759
<v Speaker 3>have been through the whole like Dotcore, one product, Jason Thing,

626
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.319
<v Speaker 3>dot Court and the whole thing. Like you are like

627
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.319
<v Speaker 3>you don't know how good you have it. I'll tell

628
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.880
<v Speaker 3>my interns like you haven't seen the things I've seen.

629
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:58.559
<v Speaker 2>Are open source stare.

630
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:01.559
<v Speaker 3>But I mean, I think it's important that you do

631
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.200
<v Speaker 3>it for a recommendational thing because otherwise it will burn out.

632
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:09.440
<v Speaker 3>It's and the sad part I think is that enterprises

633
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:12.359
<v Speaker 3>should care about more about their software bilom.

634
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.559
<v Speaker 2>With it's your build system like this, but also a

635
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:16.680
<v Speaker 2>small piece of work.

636
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:18.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but any dependency, I think you should care about

637
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:20.960
<v Speaker 3>more because if you look at your software the heroes,

638
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.880
<v Speaker 3>if you don't know who's behind one component, that's a risk.

639
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 3>And if any if it was something any other things,

640
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:31.480
<v Speaker 3>you would ever treat that as a huge risk. But

641
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.079
<v Speaker 3>there's one guy that has this critical component and that's

642
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.720
<v Speaker 3>why we're kind of sad. Now when I see people, oh,

643
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.240
<v Speaker 3>then if this goes commercial, I will just rewrite it myself. Well,

644
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.599
<v Speaker 3>you should take care of the people before they go

645
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.680
<v Speaker 3>bro the commercial or something. Why did they care about

646
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:52.960
<v Speaker 3>them when you just took their work for them? And

647
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:56.000
<v Speaker 3>also security device, it's really important to have a good

648
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.640
<v Speaker 3>index of what are your dependensies, how are they being patched,

649
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:03.519
<v Speaker 3>are they actively maintained and things that that, And that's

650
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:07.000
<v Speaker 3>the whole thing with what I really applaud you get

651
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.719
<v Speaker 3>for adding this support button. But at the same time,

652
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.880
<v Speaker 3>the cyndic in is like will people find that support?

653
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.000
<v Speaker 3>I would like this? Then this is the first step.

654
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Hopefully the next step will be that if we'll be

655
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.559
<v Speaker 3>able to be report back into something like the dot

656
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.280
<v Speaker 3>cli or something that these are people you have packtes

657
00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:29.760
<v Speaker 3>that you could support or even be part of things

658
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.679
<v Speaker 3>like the bill providers like I should have ups and

659
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.159
<v Speaker 3>get clubs and get hub Like could they want to

660
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.440
<v Speaker 3>do this data and say you have dependencies you should

661
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 3>do some kind of funding to them.

662
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And I've always looked at that from the

663
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.480
<v Speaker 2>GitHub perspective. It's from an area you're paying for an

664
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:50.039
<v Speaker 2>enterprise account. You hopefully have a bill of materials across

665
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.280
<v Speaker 2>all these different applications that all bill milt in your company,

666
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:54.199
<v Speaker 2>and you can look across the over source projects say

667
00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:56.440
<v Speaker 2>all right, you know, from a CFOs project, I want

668
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.719
<v Speaker 2>to kind of check once a year and then have

669
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.199
<v Speaker 2>it allocated out of the project depend on and you

670
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.719
<v Speaker 2>know make would obviously fall into that category two. But

671
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, one step at a time, they're doing the

672
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:09.159
<v Speaker 2>contributions at the new get level. Fine, you know, whatever

673
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 2>mechanism moves as closer to the goal of making it

674
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 2>easy for companies to do the right thing, because right

675
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 2>now it's pretty hard.

676
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:18.119
<v Speaker 3>And problem is that people that have to monet they

677
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 3>aren't part of that quisition process. That's one problem. That's

678
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:22.840
<v Speaker 3>the one problem with open source. Like someone does not

679
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:27.519
<v Speaker 3>that package add and and they just add that package

680
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:31.000
<v Speaker 3>and there's no like, as a maintainer, I don't know

681
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.159
<v Speaker 3>that someone has consumed my package, and they're like they

682
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:38.519
<v Speaker 3>can neither the CEO or CTO or whatever it knows

683
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:40.519
<v Speaker 3>that they have actually done a purchase.

684
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>I want to go back to something you said in

685
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 1>passing that it can create an index list of dependencies, right.

686
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's everybody is realizing that having a software

687
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.400
<v Speaker 1>build materials or an s bomb these days is critical,

688
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.920
<v Speaker 1>but not just for your projects but for everything in

689
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:01.639
<v Speaker 1>your infrastructure. And this is just a way to add

690
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:03.760
<v Speaker 1>to that without having to jump to a lot of hoops.

691
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:06.280
<v Speaker 1>It seems to me, I am I based about that.

692
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.760
<v Speaker 3>I would challenge that everyone thinks it's important. There they

693
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:12.599
<v Speaker 3>think it's important once you have sit down and have

694
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.480
<v Speaker 3>discussion with management, like as a consultant, I like, do

695
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:19.159
<v Speaker 3>you know the risk you're putting yourself into ear like

696
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:24.000
<v Speaker 3>and then there's is a no brainer. But it's I

697
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:24.920
<v Speaker 3>really hope just.

698
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.360
<v Speaker 1>As so we think it's important. But that doesn't mean

699
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:29.960
<v Speaker 1>your customers think no it should.

700
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.960
<v Speaker 3>It should be just the supporting important. As you have

701
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Speaker 3>a fire alarm or detector in your house, you should

702
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 3>be able to have because if there is something like

703
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:42.639
<v Speaker 3>heart beat or something else, then you will. I want

704
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:44.920
<v Speaker 3>to be able to identify which dependence is do I

705
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 3>have in my product to like, because are like the

706
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.119
<v Speaker 3>first thing? Are you affected or not? Or what that's

707
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:56.719
<v Speaker 3>or otherwise just being people wou take rashed actions to

708
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.079
<v Speaker 3>might even not solve the problem.

709
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.880
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, not everybody listens to security this week and

710
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:03.320
<v Speaker 1>there you go, they should I do.

711
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.440
<v Speaker 2>But also you know, an individual developer and given organizations

712
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.800
<v Speaker 2>only think about the things they added, They don't have

713
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>an overview of all of the libraries that are used

714
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.119
<v Speaker 2>throughout the organization, and the people who are most could

715
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.159
<v Speaker 2>be most concerned about this, which tends to be leadership,

716
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:19.760
<v Speaker 2>aren't aware of what's happening.

717
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 3>So that's what and that's why we like we use

718
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:28.119
<v Speaker 3>tools to index dependencies and report them back to some

719
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:29.039
<v Speaker 3>central location.

720
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Right.

721
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.639
<v Speaker 3>We often use things like actual log analyst disks to

722
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 3>report as a central post. Then we can quite crearis

723
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:40.760
<v Speaker 3>across things and use tools to essentially what are the

724
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.639
<v Speaker 3>both the direct dependencies but also people tried tend to

725
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:49.719
<v Speaker 3>forget the transit dependencies have dependencies, right, and that's a rabbitoil.

726
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:51.320
<v Speaker 2>You have to go down and yeah, you have to

727
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.440
<v Speaker 2>explore the whole tree there to actually get at some

728
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.800
<v Speaker 2>of like this is how this is how deep this

729
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.239
<v Speaker 2>thing goes because there's always that little library called from

730
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.119
<v Speaker 2>that other thing that depends on this other thing. That's

731
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.719
<v Speaker 2>the one that goes away and everything breaks.

732
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's why for reference sea log for j Yeah.

733
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I mean and you had the thing with

734
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.079
<v Speaker 3>open scesses. Well had the same thing, Like were a

735
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:16.280
<v Speaker 3>couple of people that had little attention, They weren't well known.

736
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Until everyone knows that the whole internet broke because of them, Yeah,

737
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.920
<v Speaker 3>and that was very unthankful for things. And that's why

738
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.400
<v Speaker 3>I think like CI tools and automation can really be

739
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.519
<v Speaker 3>really good because then you can you won't forget to

740
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:33.719
<v Speaker 3>inventory stuff. You will test and build the same way

741
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.679
<v Speaker 3>because you want your bills to be reproducible and you

742
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:41.239
<v Speaker 3>want them to be as like things will change, the

743
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.480
<v Speaker 3>environment will change, you will have new dependence and things that,

744
00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 3>but you want them to be done in a similar

745
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:50.199
<v Speaker 3>way for all projects. And that's something I like. If

746
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.039
<v Speaker 3>you have something like a program language, then you can

747
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:57.280
<v Speaker 3>start thinking more like what's the recipe for our bills

748
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.599
<v Speaker 3>in our systems? It can be more like an engineer

749
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.440
<v Speaker 3>for these things too, treat them as just like they

750
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:08.559
<v Speaker 3>should be just as high quality as you being with

751
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:13.400
<v Speaker 3>your regular code or video test or everything. And that's

752
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.360
<v Speaker 3>why we have done huge steps with things like JAM

753
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 3>because before we had a point to clicking UIs and

754
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 3>we had things that mut tasted over time and no

755
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 3>one knows how how we got.

756
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.079
<v Speaker 2>There, and a word documented was always wrong right well.

757
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.800
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thing with reputation because it's usually it's

758
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:36.760
<v Speaker 3>either it's where we want to be or where we

759
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.159
<v Speaker 3>were but fairly where we are.

760
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:43.320
<v Speaker 2>So that's it's what happened last time, but often.

761
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Not saber reputation is where they wanted it to be.

762
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 3>That was like the intentions for like the sister should

763
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.079
<v Speaker 3>have looks like this, and other things happened.

764
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.519
<v Speaker 1>I think that's going to be a common use of

765
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.400
<v Speaker 1>large language models is to parse logs and tell me

766
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:00.920
<v Speaker 1>what I need to today, you know.

767
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And that's something's really cool, like being like take's

768
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.840
<v Speaker 3>being around for an eleven years. Is that I'm like,

769
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:10.840
<v Speaker 3>I sat down with curser one day and it could

770
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:13.719
<v Speaker 3>write cake scrips for me because there's so much nice

771
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.880
<v Speaker 3>out there. So actually I was impressed, Like how right

772
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:17.360
<v Speaker 3>it got it.

773
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:18.840
<v Speaker 1>That's good and good to know.

774
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:20.639
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thing about that. But well, if you

775
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:25.360
<v Speaker 3>have like a proper language with a language server and

776
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.719
<v Speaker 3>it has defined rules, that's perfect for all of them.

777
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.119
<v Speaker 3>So it can good for those scenarios too, Like you

778
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:37.199
<v Speaker 3>can actually be very productive if you have like constraints

779
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 3>makes you more productive in elms and artis.

780
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.519
<v Speaker 1>I think that this software I think software development is

781
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.760
<v Speaker 1>one of those few maybe few, but certainly safe place

782
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:50.760
<v Speaker 1>for l l ms because we run our stuff through

783
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:53.880
<v Speaker 1>a compiler before we run it. You know, we we

784
00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:56.199
<v Speaker 1>got fact checking. It's called the compiler.

785
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.360
<v Speaker 3>And if you have things like like I use a

786
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:02.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of we talked about testing in the starting of

787
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 3>the program. You'll recommend like the listener there and I

788
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.599
<v Speaker 3>use a lot of snapshot testing as I should verify

789
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:14.079
<v Speaker 3>from simon cropt. Yes, so great, very because then it

790
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:17.840
<v Speaker 3>won't forget an assert, so you will always snapshot objects,

791
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.000
<v Speaker 3>which means that if things change, your test will fail.

792
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.760
<v Speaker 3>And you can also go for more like instead of

793
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.920
<v Speaker 3>doing those really small unit tests, you can go from

794
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.559
<v Speaker 3>the outside in. And that's also really good because when

795
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.199
<v Speaker 3>an LM does something, they will get things totally wrong.

796
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.039
<v Speaker 3>But then you test at least hopefully will fail and

797
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:39.519
<v Speaker 3>if they don't fail, then you will have to fix

798
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.239
<v Speaker 3>your test also so they the next time you will

799
00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.840
<v Speaker 3>catch it. So you're like, you will need to be

800
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:48.719
<v Speaker 3>an engineer and you need to you need to evolve.

801
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, And that makes a lot of sense.

802
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.960
<v Speaker 2>And it is interesting you see that these tools will

803
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:57.599
<v Speaker 2>be a way to get into the make flow if

804
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.280
<v Speaker 2>you want to, just because it's maturity means it's had

805
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:01.519
<v Speaker 2>great sample data to test.

806
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to have an MCP for for Cake

807
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.239
<v Speaker 1>or do you already I don't know if you if

808
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.199
<v Speaker 1>you need it, but we are like right because you

809
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:12.760
<v Speaker 1>have the s K. It's pretty self expand.

810
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 3>But also like for some things it might think with

811
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Speaker 3>us to work because we are using for a command

812
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:23.159
<v Speaker 3>line parsing, we're using the spectraor Console CLI product and

813
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:26.599
<v Speaker 3>it has now something called and the open sealizes back

814
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:30.280
<v Speaker 3>built in and some if you have suspect from something

815
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:33.880
<v Speaker 3>like Commander arguments. There's actually a person that did a

816
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.639
<v Speaker 3>proof of concept MCP just now. Because if you get

817
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 3>something that's parsonable machine, you have an MCP essentially, so

818
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:46.480
<v Speaker 3>all having if you have something that strongly typed, it

819
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:51.199
<v Speaker 3>will become easier. And and but I think and also

820
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:55.719
<v Speaker 3>if you can get more and more users, they can

821
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.280
<v Speaker 3>the advantage of something that live for many years that

822
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:00.360
<v Speaker 3>they can look at a lot of things. But I

823
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 3>like this for things like the Agent m D they

824
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 3>can put in the postories. We can have the instructions

825
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.440
<v Speaker 3>as you can confined. I think something like we be

826
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:12.679
<v Speaker 3>learning become better because the instructions to to create boundaries

827
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.440
<v Speaker 3>for your LMS to make the more better context.

828
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is great stuff, what's coming up next in

829
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:20.679
<v Speaker 1>your inbox?

830
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:24.760
<v Speaker 3>I will be speaking at next week and dot dot

831
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:29.599
<v Speaker 3>com will be talking open my cake and like next

832
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.440
<v Speaker 3>by this airs it will all be done. So we

833
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.880
<v Speaker 3>are coming from from the black future, but we are

834
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.320
<v Speaker 3>like we were easing cakes versus six point zero. So

835
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:41.679
<v Speaker 3>the cake tool will still be supported along time the

836
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 3>st K and we will launch that just after the town.

837
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Right be thinking this has got to be SYNCD with

838
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.280
<v Speaker 2>dot net ten is obviously their changes the foot.

839
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 3>And that's been our mantra. We have always released the

840
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:55.400
<v Speaker 3>last years when the major version of the next comes out,

841
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.400
<v Speaker 3>and we'll almost have the same day or just after

842
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:02.159
<v Speaker 3>support for for kate with the dot version, so we

843
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.039
<v Speaker 3>will so we will launch at TWN and so that

844
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.000
<v Speaker 3>would be and will take a breeder hopefully it takes

845
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:13.000
<v Speaker 3>on Christmas and things. And for us there's been loads

846
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:14.800
<v Speaker 3>of fun because what I like when there's like big

847
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.719
<v Speaker 3>shifts and st K is it actually see it's as

848
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:21.199
<v Speaker 3>a big code cutta and some fun. And this was

849
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:23.559
<v Speaker 3>fun because this like was one of the main just

850
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:27.000
<v Speaker 3>like when they have DOTTA tools or when when we

851
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.159
<v Speaker 3>had like the Rustling compiler and things that that's things

852
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 3>that we can see like opportunities for some fe and

853
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.559
<v Speaker 3>this has been the whole The new Tennis K has loads.

854
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:38.199
<v Speaker 1>Of loads of stuff.

855
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:41.719
<v Speaker 3>There's so much there's so much talk about AI and things,

856
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.880
<v Speaker 3>but actually added a lot of developer good things that

857
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:49.239
<v Speaker 3>almost fall in the shadow of AI over there. Things

858
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.599
<v Speaker 3>you almost forget a fatigue, but there's a lot of

859
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:56.760
<v Speaker 3>good things in performance wise, there's new commands, so people

860
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:58.639
<v Speaker 3>should really play with dot ten and look at those

861
00:44:58.840 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 3>areas too.

862
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:03.000
<v Speaker 2>It's it's not just yeah, and I'm I'm really looking

863
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:04.960
<v Speaker 2>forward to Studio twenty twenty six and just see what

864
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.519
<v Speaker 2>this rethink about. Yea, these new tools come into play

865
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:10.880
<v Speaker 2>and you know, more and more, I'm calling them just

866
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:14.039
<v Speaker 2>smart code generators, you know, because that's what they're doing

867
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:15.800
<v Speaker 2>for us. And if you use them well, they could

868
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:17.480
<v Speaker 2>spin up a pretty good code and if you don't,

869
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 2>they'll make a mess.

870
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 3>We've always been going to generate the code, and what

871
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.639
<v Speaker 3>I want to say is that I'm being good at

872
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 3>maintaining code, because that's the next step. They're currently really

873
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:27.440
<v Speaker 3>good at spitting out code.

874
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we got to get to a place

875
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.199
<v Speaker 2>where the model is trained against the codebase. That's there,

876
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:35.519
<v Speaker 2>and so it naturally constrains itself to the work that's

877
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.280
<v Speaker 2>come before and and you know, sort of keeps it

878
00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:41.480
<v Speaker 2>in line. I think there's actually possibilities there and.

879
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:44.480
<v Speaker 3>It will be interesting with things like that. Would have

880
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:46.880
<v Speaker 3>liked the new like the framework that has new amdc

881
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.360
<v Speaker 3>ap use. But you have really good AI on the

882
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.639
<v Speaker 3>ship for developers. Yeah, like what can we do with

883
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:55.280
<v Speaker 3>local elms in concert with co pilot them. Yeah, that

884
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:56.360
<v Speaker 3>would be cool to see.

885
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:58.159
<v Speaker 2>A Yeah, trying to get my hands on one of

886
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.000
<v Speaker 2>those d d GX sparks and see if I can

887
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:02.119
<v Speaker 2>run the whole thing from there.

888
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you and me both. If you find a source,

889
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:04.920
<v Speaker 1>let me know.

890
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.480
<v Speaker 2>It's going to be a mere three thousand dollars.

891
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:08.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

892
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Tis you mentioned ordev the conference in Malmo, and Richard

893
00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:15.800
<v Speaker 1>and I did that for several years. Boy, I really

894
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:18.039
<v Speaker 1>missed that place. I really missed that conference.

895
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.159
<v Speaker 3>Should go up next here.

896
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.519
<v Speaker 2>We'll try and figure it out. We will try to

897
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:22.840
<v Speaker 2>figure that.

898
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:23.280
<v Speaker 1>But we had.

899
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.440
<v Speaker 3>It's a great conference and it's good. It's like it's

900
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:29.639
<v Speaker 3>perfectly like Malm less by Copenhagen, and it's nice.

901
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.440
<v Speaker 2>To fly in to Copenhagen and take train up.

902
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.840
<v Speaker 1>We interviewed some of our idols there. It was really great, yeah.

903
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Back in the day.

904
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:39.719
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, is there anything else you want to

905
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:42.239
<v Speaker 1>throw out there before we say goodbye? Tis?

906
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:44.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, like hopefully, like just play with the

907
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:46.840
<v Speaker 3>stuff if you want, and just ping thing else and

908
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:51.280
<v Speaker 3>give us feedbackcause we will take it where we think

909
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.960
<v Speaker 3>it's probably be. We won't. We still support all things,

910
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.159
<v Speaker 3>but I think this is probably way forward interesting and

911
00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:01.360
<v Speaker 3>if we get that feedback from the community, will if

912
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:02.639
<v Speaker 3>people use it, they'll like it.

913
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And hey, listeners, push the donate button. You know

914
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:09.239
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying there, You go give him some monetary love.

915
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.960
<v Speaker 1>All right, Matias, thanks a lot. It sounds great and

916
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.400
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk to you, dear listener next time on dot

917
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:16.039
<v Speaker 1>net rocks.

918
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:38.960
<v Speaker 6>Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

919
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.159
<v Speaker 6>and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video

920
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:47.280
<v Speaker 6>and post production facilities located physically in New London, Connecticut,

921
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:51.800
<v Speaker 6>and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

922
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:54.639
<v Speaker 6>Visit our website at d O T N E, t

923
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.960
<v Speaker 6>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

924
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.800
<v Speaker 6>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives. Going

925
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:06.239
<v Speaker 6>back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

926
00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.880
<v Speaker 6>and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

927
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:10.239
<v Speaker 1>They keep us in business.

928
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:14.159
<v Speaker 6>Now go write some code, see you next time you

929
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:15.880
<v Speaker 6>got jud Middle Vans.

930
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:23.679
<v Speaker 3>Then on Texas