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Speaker 1: Well, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome to our

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podcast this week, Jack Reese. We're not hearing from a

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fighter this week. We're not hearing from a promoter. We're

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hearing from one of the best referees in the last

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twenty five years, probably one of the best referees in

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boxing history. It is Jack Reese. Jack, you you caught

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I think some people by surprise two weeks ago or

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early December when you announced that you're retiring. You've had

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a career spanning twenty five years as a referee one thousand,

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one hundred and fifty two professional boxing matches that according

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to Box Trek, So we're here to talk about your

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great career. Thank you very much for joining me on

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the show today, Dan.

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Speaker 2: Thanks you very much for having me. What a great opportunity,

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and I appreciate it very much. You bet you for

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that great introduction.

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Speaker 1: What I forgot to mention actually is, within the context

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of that total of one hundred and fifty two fights

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is more than one hundred world championship fights. So congratulations

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on an outstanding career, and I'm glad we can kind

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of review it. This will consider this like your exit interview.

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How about that sounds great. So first off, you had

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your what I guess was your final was in August

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August third in Los Angeles, and most people were familiar

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with your career know that by and large you work

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for the California State Athletic Comission, although you have done

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fights and other jurisdictions and world title fights in other

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parts of the country and other parts of the world.

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But when you when you did that that event on

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August thirty, you were the referee for the Terrence Crawford

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fight against Israel Majemov, when Terrence Crawford won the WBA

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Junior Middleway title, And I actually, uh, I you know,

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we I'll let folks know we we chanted a couple

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of emails and stuff because I wrote a story about

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your retirement. I actually meant to ask you this, uh,

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when we were going back and forth when you refereed

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Terrence Crawford against Israel Majimov going into the ring then like,

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did you know this was going to be your last

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fight or had you not yet decided what you were

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doing or didn't know maybe about what the upcoming schedule

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was from the commission.

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Speaker 3: I knew it was my last fight. Let anybody else know.

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I knew who was you being my last fight.

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Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this for a while, and I

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had a wonderful year.

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Speaker 3: Let me back up in serious.

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Speaker 2: Athletes and officials sometimes stayed around too long and they

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become like a how I say, it's a shell of themselves.

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And that's that's something I've wanted for myself. And I

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never thought about going past my sixty ninth birthday from

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year years ago. I never ever thought I'd go past

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sixty nine.

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Speaker 3: Sixty nine is coming up in April, and I had

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a great year.

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Speaker 2: This last year ended up. It started with Devin Haney

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and Regi's program and Gilberto desert Riverez against Arson and Bouliaverian,

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Emmanuel not Ready, Dennis burd.

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Speaker 3: In check, and then Terrence Croffett Israel Magim.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty good run in just a few months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just said, why not go out on top.

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Speaker 2: If this goes well, I'll pull the plug before my

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sixty ninth and go out my way. And no one

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had to tell me it's time for you to sit down.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that a boxing fans would look

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maybe a lot of boxers and say they wish they

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could have the same sort of of uh, look at

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their own careers and not hanging around for too long

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and not show up as opponents. And basically what you're

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saying is you didn't want to be the equivalent of

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a referee opponent of a of a of a good name,

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but a guy that was gonna lose. Maybe you know

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what I.

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Speaker 3: Mean a hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: But also I'd never I would never be able to

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live with myself if my oh you know, because of

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age fall the time is undefeated, if my own physical

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ability started getting in the way of me being able

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to protect the fighter, I couldn't live with myself as

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somebody that I heard and that none of that happened.

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And I said, you know what, it's a good time

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to get.

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Speaker 3: Out of here before any of that happens. And that's

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what I did.

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Speaker 1: So there was no other like compelling reason. It wasn't

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like a health thing or you got some other job

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or some other opportunity. You just just all the things

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you just mentioned. You said, you know what, you looked

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at your career, Say you know what, over eleven hundred fights,

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a lot of big time events, and uh, uh, so far,

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so good. And why I pushed to push the envelope.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I also looked at, you know, do twenty two to

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thirty six year old monsters fighting for their life and

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their career when a sixty nine year or older in

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the ring managing that thing it.

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Speaker 3: Mentally twenty years ago, I never thought. I thought that

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wasn't going to be right. And I've always told myself

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to the standard. I've always watched.

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Speaker 2: Myself, you know, the changes that have gone through my.

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Speaker 3: Body, and I just said, I can't do.

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Speaker 2: What I used to do, and I don't want to

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get it to a point where I can't do what

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I want to do.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everybody should have that judgment. I think, whatever

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your political affiliation, a lot of people might say the

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same thing about the presidents that we've had of the

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United States of America. Yes, So what I was interested

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also is this because we know how your career is

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coming to an end in terms of a of a referee.

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But I don't know the answer this. How did you

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actually get involved in terms of to be a referee

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in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was something I always wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: I fought a little bit an amateur. I was an

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amateur cond that kickboxer. I did some boxing. I was

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a fireman for thirty one years with the Los Angeles

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Fire Department and we fought against the LAPD and.

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Speaker 3: The other county sheriffs. And when I was thirty, I was.

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Speaker 2: Getting you know, I did my last fight and I go,

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you know what I set off?

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Speaker 3: I get punction in the head.

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Speaker 2: And I always had it in my head that I

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wanted to be something involved with professional sports and.

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Speaker 3: Pro ref I taught myself out of.

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Speaker 2: It for about eight years, and then about thirty eight

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thirty nine, I started looking back into it, and I

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was very fortunate my timing was correct.

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Speaker 3: I guess it was not in my time. It's in

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God's time.

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Speaker 2: As they say, you know. And right when I started

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approaching this, many of the older.

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Speaker 3: The officials in the California State Athletic.

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Speaker 2: Commission were getting old, and the commission demanded.

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Speaker 3: That they put together a training program. We're going to

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bring in some new officials. And I happened to be

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in one of those guys.

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Speaker 2: And there was one hundred and four people that got

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into this class. And I gotta tell you, I get

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into this little room in the LA Boxing Gym, my

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buddy Olympic audatorium, and.

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Speaker 3: There's one hundred and four people stuffed.

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Speaker 2: Into this room and I'm looking on and it's all the.

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Speaker 3: Signs of the referees and you know, people that knew everybody.

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And I'm sitting there going, God, I'm in trouble. I'm

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loadly here, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean Richard Steele's kid was in there, and then

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many other officials signs and stuff like that, and daughters too.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: I guess said they made the right choice, because here

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we are twenty five years later and you have one

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of the you know, more pristine reputations as a referee

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and a resume to back it up that I can

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think of. Anyway, I've been blessed.

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Speaker 3: I've been really blessed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now now that the days of being the third

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man in the ring are concluded, as I wrote, and

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you mentioned when I wrote the article about your your

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announcement of your retirement, that you are going to now

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move towards more judging boxing matches with the California Commission.

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You have some experience doing that. Can you tell me

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a little bit of out just what your planning to

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do now in terms of whether it's judging you mentioned

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maybe being involved with the Commission as one of their

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ringside replay officials that are involved when there's a controversial call,

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that they need to take a look at the video

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to talk to me a little bit about what those

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plans are and when that's going to start.

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Speaker 3: So exactly what you said.

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Speaker 2: One of the things about working in California, when you

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become a referee, it's mandatory.

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Speaker 3: That you also have to have proficiency in judging.

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Speaker 2: So I learned both on the layup. And I don't

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know if people are aware of it or you're aware

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of it, but I've done over five hundred professional fights

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as a judge as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know you get judging, just maybe not to

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the same level of because you're not on camera. You're

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not on the TV in front of everybody, so most

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people they know the ref but they don't necessarily know

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who the judges are. But I, yeah, sure know that

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you've done plenty of fights as one of the judges.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I've been able to do world title bouts

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and all that stuff. But when Andy Foster came to

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California like fourteen years ago, uh.

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Speaker 3: He was looking.

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Speaker 2: He had his plan on what he was going to do,

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and he told me Jack, I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To be primarily using it as a referee. I wasn't

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gonna argue with the guy I like.

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Speaker 1: Referee, So we'll just help so people know for what

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we're talking about. Andy Fosser as the executive director of

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the California Commission correct And.

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Speaker 2: Uh So for the last fourteen years I've been used

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for domin he as a referee, did some judging along

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the way, But prior to that, I did world title fights.

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I refereed. I'm sorry I.

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Speaker 3: Judged Orlando Toledo and the silly long chanker.

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Speaker 2: I judge that fight, and I judged tile ballots and

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stuff like that in the past. So I'm going to

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focus now and I want to stay with the boxing

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family and until I can't contribute anymore.

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: I love the atmosphere. You know, it's in your blood, Dan,

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It's just like you. You can't get rid of it.

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Speaker 1: I think we're both lifers, just do different things within

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the context of the sport, and.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of people like us. And once it's

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in your blood, you can't get it out. And you

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give me the opportunity to evolved. And but What also

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we're trying to develop.

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Speaker 3: Here in California is a permanent incident.

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Speaker 2: Review office for instant replay official and it's a really

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vital part of UH professional sports in other sports, and

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it's slowly making its way into professional boxing.

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Speaker 3: It's a great tool. I think the.

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Speaker 2: Fans just wanted just want the mission and the officials

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to get it right.

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Speaker 1: Sure they're not so, I'm no sure. Do you definitely

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want to get it right? Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: Well, they're not so.

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Speaker 2: Many at you when you make a mistake, as long

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as you can correct it. And I got no ego

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in the sense that if I miss a knockdown or

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a head butt and I call it a knocked on

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and replay, you know, shows me a different angle. Yeah,

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it's hey, I made a mistake. Let's let's move on.

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Let's change the call and move on because at the end,

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the fighter didn't get cheated and the right people, you know.

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Speaker 3: Win the fight.

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Speaker 1: Now, do you stay around involved in the commission as

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somebody that's like a mentor to the younger referees. I

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say this because I've had the great pri which to

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be in California for many fights. I've sat in and

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watched you for example, conduct a rules meeting like sat

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like a fly on the wall in the back and

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watch you go through where you tell the camps and

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you know, deal with how you're going to call the fight,

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the hand wrappings, all the business that goes on, uh,

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you know after the weigh ins where where you go

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through all the rules and obviously all the referees, you

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know they they're going to want to learn that type

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of stuff too. Are you going to be involved in

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maybe the workshops or the instruction or the mentoring of

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other young officials coming up?

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Speaker 2: Dan, I always have been, and I'm one of the

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three certified Referee instructors for the Association of Boxington Commissions.

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I travel around the world certifying referees, giving classes and stuff.

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 2: The last one I did was at the WVO conference

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in Puerto Rico and then North Carolina. I've got one

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coming up in Phoenix that smunk. And I'm always doing

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that and I get a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of people from all over the world.

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Speaker 2: A referee's have set me called me up and being

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meat at the conventions whatever they can call me up,

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and I've been helping that, assisting them be the best that.

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Speaker 3: They could be. They send me videos and situations they've

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been in and I and I never tell them. You know,

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I don't criticize them. I critique them.

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Speaker 2: I go, look, it's not about right and wrong, It's

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about what could you do different or better if this situation.

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Speaker 3: Comes up again. You can't change that one, but you

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got to learn from this. So we go over that stuff.

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And I've been doing that for years.

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Speaker 2: And I also got a private training referee training course

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with the assistants of a couple of other guys that

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created and I've invited you to in the pass and.

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Speaker 3: You're more than welcome to come again come this year.

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I'd appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: The Vegas Cold Soul Arbitter Elite Boxing referee training.

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Speaker 3: So far in four years, we've had.

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Speaker 2: About two hundred officials from all over the world come through.

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Speaker 3: And the best.

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Speaker 2: Compliment I can get is that you know, they keep

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coming back right so and they call us up with

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their success stories as well as a challenging situation.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: All right, now, you know the time of the interview

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was going to come where we have to talk about

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your highest profile fight, probably the most significant moment anyway

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that I can think of in terms of the action

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in the ring. You know exactly what I am talking about.

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December one, twenty eighteen, Staples Center in Los Angeles. I

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was ringside. It was the heavyweight championship of the world.

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It was Deontay Wilder, who at the time was the

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WBC heavyweight champion. Tyson Fury was still the lineal champion.

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They were having the first fight of what turned out

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to be their epic trilogy. It was an interesting fight

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all the way through. Tyson Fury had gotten knocked down

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in round nine, But the big moment, Jack, you know

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where I'm going here. Around twelve, Tyson Fury with a

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suffer as a massively heavy knockdown. I've maintained for every

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moment since that occurred that while probably ninety nine percent

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of the referees in boxing would have stopped the fight

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without counting because he went down so heavily, Jack Reese

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was one of the very very few that at the

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very least was going to assess him. You made the

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decision by some not by me, that you made the

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wrong call. I believe you were proven right because Tyson

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Furry got up, he beat the count, he won the

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rest of the round, and he ended up getting a

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draw in the fight. So, and this has come up

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a lot because the fury's been in the news because

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of his fight with us Sick. It was in the

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news a lot of people were talking about it because

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of the announcement of your retirement. Can you take me through

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just your thoughts about that situation in the twelve round

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of that fight, which obviously will you know, be a

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fight that you know, every every great athlete or referee

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or officials remembered for something or other. It seems to

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me that you know, among all the big fights you've done,

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that's the one that people are going to point to

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when they think about Jack g Reecee.

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Speaker 2: And I'm happy that I was part of that moment

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and it went the way it went. I do have

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a little something to expressed that a lot of my

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experience comes from the Los Angeles Fire Department, being an

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EMT for over thirty one years and writing for nineteen

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years as a captain on a paramedic engine company, going

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out to shooting standings, car accident's beating, and I'm very

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familiar with trauma. I'm very comfortable with trauma because I

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personally assessed and watched my firefighters and paramedics assessed trauma

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victims constantly, so I've learned a little bit about trauma.

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Then being a boxing referee, I'm comfortable with it because

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I get to see the progression of damage right in

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front of me, and I get to see the punch

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the guy gets hit with.

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Speaker 3: It's called the mechanism of visiony.

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Speaker 2: I get to see it while that's happening and watch

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his body language.

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Speaker 3: So I got a.

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Speaker 2: Little advantage there from that experience.

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Speaker 3: And this was a highly contested fight, Daniels.

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Speaker 2: You remember in the day before at the press conference

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there was a football field sized room filled.

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Speaker 3: With press Do you remember that.

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Speaker 1: I was absolutely and you were in it.

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Speaker 3: I never saw something.

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Speaker 1: You know that was a huge That was a huge deal.

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That was a big fight.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, this highly heavyweight championship in the world, the

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first one in Los Angeles in twenty one years. Two

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monsters huge then, and they were both boxing very incredibly.

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I could you know, My thought was going in the fight,

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Tyson Fury's doing pretty good.

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Speaker 3: He's moving, he's bouncing. I wonder if he can keep

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this up. That's what my thought was. And in the

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ninth in the ninth round. When he got knocked down.

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Speaker 2: It was a glancing bloated you know, knocked this balance off.

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He got right back up, no problem, and we went

351
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back to boxing. And when he went down in the

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twelfth round, it was two extremely good shots for right

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hand and the left hand and dropped him. But unlike

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everybody else.

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Speaker 3: I'm trained.

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Speaker 2: I'm watching how he falls and how he lands and

357
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what he does. And people think that he fell flat

358
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on his back and his head slammed against the canvas.

359
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,279
Speaker 3: If that was the case, I probably would have waved

360
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it off. But what actually happened is he fell down, took.

361
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Speaker 2: The brunt of the fall on his forearm and elbow,

362
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and then shoulder his head you know, went into a

363
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,759
whipping motion, but it never hit the canvas, and then

364
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he rolled and laid.

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Speaker 3: On his back.

366
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Speaker 2: I pointed down, signaling that I was scoring a knockdown.

367
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That's an breaker, right.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you missed that one up me,

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we would have the interview.

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Speaker 3: Pointed wild. It was great, I pointed. I didn't even

371
00:16:17,799 --> 00:16:19,279
you know, I didn't take him to the corner. I

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just pointed to the furthest corner. He went right over

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and he was.

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Speaker 1: Happy to do so well what you probably don't remember

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or don't maybe watch it. He turned towards the crowd

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and he gave the throats last gesture like he thought

377
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the fight's over, and he walked to the corner.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, which is an interesting thing we could chat about.

379
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But and then I picked up a detective count from

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the timekeeper.

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Speaker 3: Even though I was going through it in my mind, I.

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Speaker 2: Picked up the count from the timekeeper and started getting closer,

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and as I this is the important thing but I

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picked up instinctively is when I turned to him, he

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was laying flat on his back, but his right leg

386
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was up, his knee was sent and he was resting

387
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on a ball, but unser on the of his foot.

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Speaker 3: That's a conscious act.

389
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Speaker 2: If he was unconscious, his leg would have been flat out.

390
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 3: He would have, you know, no muscle control.

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Speaker 2: Second thing I noticed stepping in as I got closer,

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he was squeezing his gloves.

393
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Speaker 3: I don't know if you.

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Speaker 2: Guys ever saw this. If you watch it again, take

395
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,680
a look. So I said, there's something going on, you know, neurologically.

396
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Speaker 3: Let me see what we got.

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Speaker 2: And as I got in closer, I could see his

398
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eyes were open they weren't open wide, but they were open,

399
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And as I kneeled down, I wasn't even counting out

400
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,200
loud yet, But as I kneeled down, the thing I

401
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,400
saw was he tracked me with his eyes.

402
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 3: He went from looking straight up to looking at me.

403
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So I started to count.

404
00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:42,640
Speaker 2: I think it was at four, and when I got

405
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the five, he popped.

406
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Speaker 3: His eyes wide open. Sixty rolled over and dan.

407
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Speaker 2: A knockdown is any time due to illegal punch or punches,

408
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that any part of about it of fider's body other.

409
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Speaker 3: Than the soles of their feet are touching the canvas.

410
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,799
Speaker 2: Conversely, you are no longer considered down once no part

411
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of your body.

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Speaker 3: A litted the soles of your feet touching the canvas.

413
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And as I was finishing.

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Speaker 2: The word nine, there was no part of his body

415
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touching the canvas.

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Speaker 1: Right, And there's been there's been some people that claim

417
00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:20,279
it's a long count, And I've always maintained that Tyson

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00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:24,559
Fury is paying attention to the referee, and every referee

419
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has a different cadence that they count. It's not supposed

420
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to be necessarily ten seconds on the stopwatch. It's the

421
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ten count from the official. So some referees might count

422
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slightly slower, some might count a little bit quicker. And

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is if the fighter is watching the ref and knows

424
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where he's at in the count and gets up before

425
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he says the word ten, he's up? Am I wrong

426
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:45,240
about that?

427
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Speaker 3: You're one hundred percent correct.

428
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Speaker 2: Additionally, it's supposed to mirror account of ten seconds, but

429
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no one's exact and no one's perfect.

430
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Speaker 3: Right. I got to tell you, I was very fortunate

431
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:58,319
that night.

432
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Speaker 2: I went over at one hundred times afterward because of

433
00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:04,720
the controversy, and my account was spot on.

434
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 3: I was at nine and nine was on the clock.

435
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 2: So you know, they can say what they want, but

436
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,039
there's always people that are betting money in there. You know,

437
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:16,920
they're arguing with their heart instead of what's really well.

438
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 1: The other thing, Jack, is this some and I think

439
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,279
this this clouds the view of some that looked at

440
00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:25,759
that particular situation. When he's up and then you, like

441
00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:29,359
every other referee is is instructed to do by the commission,

442
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,880
walk to me, take a step here, wipe the glove.

443
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,240
In other words, there is a few seconds of protocol

444
00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:38,000
after you're up on your feet, and.

445
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Speaker 2: In the old days they got them up they wiped

446
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their gloves, they.

447
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Speaker 3: Let them go and the guy got knocked out. The

448
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:46,480
ringside physicians.

449
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,839
Speaker 2: Who have you know, do study this and concussions constantly

450
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,400
say you there's got to be a better way to

451
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,079
assess a guy when he's been concussed.

452
00:19:56,559 --> 00:19:58,559
Speaker 3: And over the years ex change he used to be

453
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,839
you get him up, questions, then you wipe his glugs.

454
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Speaker 2: Then you get them up, you ask him questions, you

455
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,960
make them walk to you wipe his gloves.

456
00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 3: And in the recent last ten years, it's been.

457
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 2: Make them walk to the right or left because they've

458
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,039
they've down in dirty turns. Any drunk can stagger forward.

459
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 1: I was going to say, they can. They can bullshit

460
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,119
you and walk forward a little bit right.

461
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,079
Speaker 2: But using your legs to cross over takes more cognitive

462
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,119
function in your brain. That's the best way to assess them.

463
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,720
It had started just before that, about a year before that,

464
00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:36,440
in boxing and professional boxing, and.

465
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Speaker 3: Unfortunately and unfortunately for me, I was.

466
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Speaker 2: One of the first guys to use it in a

467
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:41,880
high profile fight.

468
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,559
Speaker 3: It's been it's been on the in the rule book.

469
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,279
Larry has it, wrote.

470
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 2: It up in his policies a year or two before that,

471
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:52,680
and it's now in the ABC referees guidelines that you

472
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,880
to assess a guy who's concussed not talking on a

473
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,000
body shot. Dad, I'm talking about a heavily cancust guy.

474
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,359
And you do you feel that his ability to n

475
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,720
tells he to send himself as questionable?

476
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,279
Speaker 3: You make him walk to the right or.

477
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: Left and demonstrate he's in full control of his body.

478
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: And Fury did that and he and like I said

479
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,039
when we started this part of the discussion, that he

480
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,200
proved that your decision was correct because after the fight resumed,

481
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,279
he went and I think it's clear he was the

482
00:21:20,319 --> 00:21:22,079
winner of the rest of the round. He certainly didn't

483
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:24,240
get knocked down again or show ill effects from the

484
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:26,519
knockdown and ended up boxing well in the in the

485
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,720
you know, the last whatever it was about what two

486
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,400
minutes or so left in the round, and ended up

487
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,839
win the draw in the fight. So as I started

488
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:36,400
to say, this was your highest profile, biggest moment in

489
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,559
all the twenty five years, do you agree with that?

490
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,759
Is this your biggest moment in the ring as a referee.

491
00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 3: Yes, I've had other.

492
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: Interesting and wonderful moments, but this was the most high

493
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:52,039
profile one because the amount of eyes on it and.

494
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,079
Speaker 3: The size of these two guys and the fact that

495
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,079
it was a heavyweight of division and all that stuff,

496
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,920
and I'm blessed to be part of it.

497
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,759
Speaker 1: So how about you, yeah, exactly, how about you give

498
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:05,519
us a couple of those other moments you mentioned besides that,

499
00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:07,519
that that in your mind you that you remember from

500
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:09,200
the fights, And I'm gonna just I'm gonna give the

501
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,279
folks a little bit of a list of I went through.

502
00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:13,200
I literally, Jack, I went through when I was doing

503
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,960
the story about your retirement a couple of weeks ago.

504
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:18,759
I went through the entirety. I think it's like nineteen

505
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:21,160
pages on box or something like that. I literally looked

506
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,480
through every single page and went through and called a

507
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,400
handful of the biggest fights. And there's way more than this,

508
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,160
so I'll just read a few of them. There's there's

509
00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:30,920
dozens and dozens of major fights, but just to name

510
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,559
a few Errol Spence Junior Sean Porter was a welterweight

511
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,680
unification fight, Gervonta Tank Davis against your york As gamboa

512
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,720
triple G against Marco Antonio Rubio, and you did other

513
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:43,599
triple G fights in La Also, Terrence Crawford, Julius and

514
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,240
Dono where you traveled to Nebraska when he became the

515
00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:48,359
unisputed junior welterweight champion. That was one of the great

516
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,799
atmospheres I've ever been in. Bernard Hopkins getting knocked out

517
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:53,839
of the ring by Joe Smith and what was Bernard's

518
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,480
final fight, Leo Santa Cruz abnermar is One. La Staples

519
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,400
Center was on fire that night. Lomachenko, Gary Russ, Michael Kessler,

520
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,079
andre Ward in a big super middleweight world championship fight.

521
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,319
You also worked five seasons of the Contender reality series,

522
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,880
So that's just a smattering of some of those fights.

523
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,440
But you had you were saying you hadn't met have

524
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,319
a couple of It doesn't have to be from those fights,

525
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,119
by the way, Jackabie, from anything you said, some other

526
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,279
sort of what endearing and funny stories from some other

527
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:19,359
big fights you worked, or even small fights you worked.

528
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely and I want everybody to know that being a

529
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,799
boxing referee isn't glamorous as people might think. They fly

530
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,559
as coach, they get us in and how fast you know,

531
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:31,240
we don't make a lot of money.

532
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: And you find yourself doing things for.

533
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,519
Speaker 2: Boxing like wearing an RCLE headband with camera in it.

534
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: I remember that what fight was that? I said, I

535
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,480
remember that what fight was that?

536
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: Well?

537
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,519
Speaker 2: You know, but you know, I've always had this attitude

538
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:50,039
of do what's best for boxing. And I learned that

539
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,720
actually from having conversations with people like you.

540
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: But in this case it was Max.

541
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,799
Speaker 2: Kellum when were having a conversation about something controversial.

542
00:23:57,319 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: And he says, because that one's best for boxing.

543
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 2: And when I got done with that, I walked away saying, Wow,

544
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,000
there's mortal than just two guys in front of you.

545
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:08,599
And anyway, I wanted them headband with the thing.

546
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: It was a camera. It was a camera there right,

547
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:11,400
a camera.

548
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:13,599
Speaker 2: It was a camera the thing and I was miked

549
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,240
and then I have had funny situations.

550
00:24:16,279 --> 00:24:19,279
Speaker 3: I ended up. They asked me to do some celebrity boxing.

551
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: I refereed Octo Maal against Amy Fisher and the same night,

552
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,200
what's his face? The baseball player I'm drawing a blank

553
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:33,759
right now from Oakland.

554
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: He leaves like, oh yeah, Jose Cano, Jose Canseco.

555
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 3: I refereed Jose I can't remember who I refereed him against.

556
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,319
And Ron Jaredy was the ring and I'm.

557
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: Sitting this and I and I literally in between fights,

558
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:50,000
I went over to the promoter.

559
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 3: It was such a sham, a sham, this whole thing.

560
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:54,720
I went over to the promoter. I said, if you don't.

561
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: Pay me in cash right now, me and the timekeeper leaving,

562
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:00,000
that's how we had to get paid.

563
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: Did they pay you is the question?

564
00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:04,519
Speaker 3: Yeah they did, And I got back in the ring

565
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,200
and it was crazy fights. Ronnie King jumped into the

566
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,200
ring and the robe he came out of nowhere. He

567
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,400
wasn't even on the card. He didn't fight, He just

568
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,559
like jumped in the ring. It was a crazy situation.

569
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: But back to the pros on a really interesting situation.

570
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 3: Was you remember the fight between Andre war.

571
00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:26,319
Speaker 1: And Edward Vegaz, I sure do, if I'm not mistaken,

572
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,519
wasn't Edwin Rodriguez was like several pounds overweight, and Andre

573
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:33,640
actually showed himself to be a real mensch because he

574
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:35,559
was going to get paid quite a bit of extra

575
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:38,359
money from Edwin Rodriguez's purse. And I guess when the

576
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,240
fight was over, the way the story goes is that

577
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,200
he asked the Rodriguez team or something like that, like,

578
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:48,039
you know, what's his situation, meaning like his family, his

579
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,839
money and in the end, you know, Edwin had not

580
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:52,200
made a lot of money, and Andre was like, you

581
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,880
know what, let him keep the money. So he was

582
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:54,880
he was pretty cool about it.

583
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,279
Speaker 2: Well, he was ten pounds overweight for a super middleweight fights, right,

584
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:00,799
and they hated each other.

585
00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 3: That brought more attention.

586
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: Uh what's his name of? Rodriguez got fired. Two hundred thousand,

587
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,720
one hundred went to the commission, one hundred went to ward.

588
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:09,960
I didn't know the story.

589
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:10,839
Speaker 3: You just told me the award.

590
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,319
Speaker 1: Let him keep his money. At the end, he let

591
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,039
him keep that money.

592
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 3: People back, That's wonderful. But I swear to God, then

593
00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:19,880
you could cut the tension with a knife. And I

594
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,359
stepped into your wreen. I had my clothes, I.

595
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: Had my bag in my hand, on my my shirts

596
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,759
and pants over my you know, on a hanger.

597
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: On my shoulder, and I got approached by the promoter

598
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,519
Jack just starting into a ship show. You gotta tell.

599
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:35,680
I said, hey, Dan, I got this, We'll take control.

600
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: Relaxed, you know, And then I took a I walked

601
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:42,359
one hundred feet and somebody from Rodriguez's.

602
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: Camp came in started yelling me about something Wards doing.

603
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,200
When I went into the dressing.

604
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 2: Rooms, it was usually there's a little festivity in the room,

605
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,640
that may be music playing. It was quiet as his

606
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:55,519
mouth in both places. And like I said, you can

607
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:56,880
cut the tension with a knife.

608
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,599
Speaker 3: And when they started fighting, it was of It.

609
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Was like two kids in a playground. They were wrestling

610
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:09,440
and being dirty like for the first three rounds. In

611
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,680
the fourth round, more of the same stuff.

612
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 3: I was trying to be very just be progressive. Started

613
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,799
with progressive discipline.

614
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:19,319
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to jump on him real hard,

615
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,240
real quick and start taking points. I said, world championship fight,

616
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:24,559
you end up boxing yourself at the corner and just

617
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,480
qualifying something.

618
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: So yeah. So in the fourth round, though, it got

619
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:29,799
real ugly.

620
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: Rodriguez ended up having Ward in in a guillotine.

621
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 3: His head was between his arm, and.

622
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: That happens, and I said stop, and Rodriguez started walking

623
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:47,559
back and lifting his arm choking Ward. Everybody can hear

624
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:51,079
me saying stop. And then Rodriguez wasn't stopping, and so

625
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,000
Ward says, I'll take it in my own hands. I

626
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:54,480
started throwing left hands.

627
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: Over the top. They hit the ropes. I had to

628
00:27:57,079 --> 00:28:00,240
jump in and wrestle them off. And when I jump

629
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:01,559
in and to wrestle them off, I got.

630
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: Hit with a left hand by I was gonna actually

631
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,440
ask you if you can remember a time, because I've

632
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,480
seen some things where there's a break and maybe a

633
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:10,559
ref takes it takes the brunt of a shot. And

634
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,039
so you did get clipped in that particular fight. And actually,

635
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:14,839
I'm sure that's not the only time.

636
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it seems like they're always pointing for

637
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,319
my growing because all of us get hitting and growing

638
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,640
a lot. I don't know why when they're dropping their

639
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,039
gloves or you're breaking them whatever. But when I split

640
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:31,640
them up and you know, put them both in the corner,

641
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,160
I was a little bit buzzed.

642
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,559
Speaker 3: I hated a lie and I was like fifty years old.

643
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,799
Speaker 2: And I walked over the commission table to I was

644
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:42,279
trying to I was trying to slow everything down to

645
00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:44,880
get it from spiraling that, you know, way out of control.

646
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 3: And I walked over the commission table man Dan.

647
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,759
Speaker 2: There was five people, the commissioners and Andy Foster.

648
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:54,119
Speaker 3: Looking up at me like, oh my god, what are

649
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,720
you going to do with this? And it made me laught.

650
00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:57,799
You know, maybe okay, I.

651
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: Got this, I'll do something, and you know you ended

652
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,480
up what I ended up taking two points from each

653
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:07,880
of them and recommending fines with which the.

654
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: Athletic Commission did because I was trying to.

655
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: Let them know that we're not doing this main event

656
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:16,200
on HBO, a very important fight.

657
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: This is not the way to behave, you know.

658
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: And you mentioned I mentioned about eleven hundred and fifty

659
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,720
two fights, and you mentioned to me when we were

660
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,200
going back and forth when I was writing about the

661
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,079
retirement announcement, that you had in all those fights in

662
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:32,759
twenty five years as a professional referee had never disqualified

663
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,079
a fighter from any of the bouts you had worked.

664
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:37,920
And so when you tell me that story, that tells

665
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,319
me A, you as an official are able to get

666
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,480
the respect and take control of a fight which is

667
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,039
supposed to be the case, and b in a case

668
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,240
where maybe it was going a little bit sideways like that,

669
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:51,440
you never let your own emotions get the best of

670
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,559
you to to take a guy out of the fight

671
00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:59,000
on a on a disqualification. Is that sort of the mindset,

672
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,559
the the way that a referee has to act to

673
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:03,519
understand it's not about them, it's about the fighters. I mean,

674
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:05,720
I know that if it's necessary, you would you would

675
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,920
have run a guy out of the fight. But it

676
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,480
tells me that you had the mindset and commanded the

677
00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:14,200
respect from the guys that you're officiating, who knew they

678
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,279
weren't going to push the ultimate line.

679
00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:20,559
Speaker 2: Excuse me, I got a little bit of flu still

680
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:22,640
let me dan one hundred percent.

681
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: And I just want to give you I tried to impose.

682
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: This theory on some of the younger officials and some

683
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,119
of the older officials, but.

684
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

685
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: When I do seminars, I ask people, hey, give me

686
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:39,880
a correlation to what you think your our job is

687
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:41,119
with some other job.

688
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,039
Speaker 3: And inevitably I have guys telling me a police.

689
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: Officer, and some guys have actually told me a bullfighter.

690
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,759
Speaker 3: On a matador. And I said, guys, that's going to

691
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:55,200
get you in trouble. I go, a matador is all

692
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,480
about himself. A matador's wearing the fancy uniform. A matador

693
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,279
is the one, you know what, I'm saying, attention to themselves.

694
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:02,720
And I say, just what you said.

695
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:06,559
Speaker 2: I go, guys, it's not about you, it's not about us.

696
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: I said, if you want to ask me and Dan,

697
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:09,400
this has.

698
00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: Been my attitude for not my whole career, but because

699
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,519
I had learned, but for the last twenty years. For sure,

700
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:19,720
I look at what we do as I'm an orchestra leader.

701
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: Get out there, and people noticed me in.

702
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,359
Speaker 2: The beginning, and people understand that I got a job.

703
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: They even announce what you are.

704
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: But once the music starts playing, no one notices the orchestra.

705
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: Leader because they're listening to the music. The only time

706
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,839
they noticed that orchestra leader is.

707
00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:38,559
Speaker 2: That something dramatic it has to be played, and he

708
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:39,799
makes a dramatic move.

709
00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: And I've tried to remember myself.

710
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,559
Speaker 2: To that, stay the hell out of the way, being conspicuous,

711
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,559
don't I work hard. I've worked hard for twenty years

712
00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:50,759
not to disqualify people.

713
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: I go. A guy who.

714
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: Uses a disqualification as a tool has got it wrong.

715
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: It's like a cop thinking shooting and killing someone is

716
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,480
just a tool. It's not. It's a last resource.

717
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm sure I'm sure there are

718
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:07,799
there there have been fights where where if it had

719
00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:09,279
come to it, you would have been able to you

720
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:12,119
would have pulled the trigger and done it. But I'm

721
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:14,119
making a point Jack that because of the way you

722
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,279
conduct yourself, that you had the respect for them to

723
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:19,880
at least listen enough to not get themselves thrown out

724
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,640
of a fight. Not every referee has that respect from

725
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000
the guys that they're visiating, but I will.

726
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 5: But other than that, man, I respected them right because

727
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:31,920
I didn't want to have to. And if I my

728
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:35,519
attitude was if I'm taking points, but more importantly, if

729
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:38,880
I ever have to disqualify guy, I'm not disqualifying him.

730
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,839
Speaker 3: He's disqualifying himself. He's getting the points taken from himself.

731
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,559
Speaker 2: So the fans are going, I'm happy he did that.

732
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,079
I'm glad he finally did that.

733
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:50,119
Speaker 3: It's it's the guy he did it. I didn't do it.

734
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,799
If that makes sense to it, yes it does.

735
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: So here's the thing unrelated to the points and the

736
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880
deductions and the and the not disqualifying somebody. I'm looking

737
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,359
at the list of the names I read in terms

738
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,359
of the bigger fights you worked, and I know there's

739
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:02,559
so many others there. Who do you? I mean again,

740
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:04,920
now that you're not refereeing them, you can give your opinions.

741
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,640
I guess who's the who's the best fighter? You feel

742
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,640
like you ever watched in the ring as a referee.

743
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,559
I don't know if you. I can't think off the

744
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:12,880
top of my head if you ever refereed like a

745
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,319
you know, a Floyd Mayweather fighter, a Manny Packou fighter,

746
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:17,240
a Canelo fight, guys like that. But who's who do

747
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,720
you think was the best fighter you ever ref to

748
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:19,079
fight for?

749
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,839
Speaker 2: I can't say the best, but there's a there's a

750
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,480
top tier guys that I was. I was absolutely amazed

751
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:27,920
while I was in the ring. Guys like Momachenko beat

752
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:34,160
hop Triple G, guys got just our tacticians, and like

753
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:37,079
the smartest guy was Bernard Hopkins, no.

754
00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:37,839
Speaker 3: Question about it.

755
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: As a referee, if you're on his right, he's he's

756
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,599
throwing kidney shots.

757
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: With his left hand.

758
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: You move over to the other side to see he's

759
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:47,599
using in the other hands.

760
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,759
Speaker 1: He's throwing hip shots. He's throwing kidney shots. I've seen

761
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:50,559
him all do that.

762
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,359
Speaker 3: Here's how he is. He's always looking for an Advan's

763
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,119
always looking to win.

764
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: When he was fighting Joel Smith and Joe threw a

765
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,599
borderline shot with no effect, but I wanted it wasn't

766
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:05,559
the first and I wanted Joe didn't know to keep

767
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:09,440
him up. So I very softly said, and Bernard had

768
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,000
no reaction, and I very softly said, Joe, keep them up.

769
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: Nobody heard me except the fighters, right, And.

770
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, Grabs is going.

771
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: It starts, and I go not to shit off man.

772
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,559
He's always looking for an advantage.

773
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: That sounds like Hopkins. I know that sounds just like him.

774
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and Loma watching him take the guy apart

775
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:32,079
and triple.

776
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 3: G with his power and his uh, just so many guys.

777
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,880
I came to Andrew Ward. Oh my god, Nore, now

778
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,880
I'm watching Terrence.

779
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: I've been in the room with Terrence Crawford and Jervarpa

780
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:46,119
Davis and h shown for Erol.

781
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,599
Speaker 3: Spence, all these guys that were just unbelievable.

782
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,119
Speaker 2: They're all good at certain things, and it was wonderful

783
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,119
being part of it.

784
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:55,159
Speaker 3: I was just blessed.

785
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,599
Speaker 1: So ill I'll wrap up then with this, Jack. You

786
00:34:57,639 --> 00:34:59,880
know you just mentioned all these top fighters that you

787
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:02,039
about been in the ring with. In terms of the referee,

788
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,440
I know there's there's a bunch, you know, Feary Wilder also,

789
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,920
I'm sure in that list. Yeah, Oh my god, So

790
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,159
do you ever like I mean to do the refereeing

791
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,920
gig or judging gig as long as you do it.

792
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,360
To be a writer, like as long as I've done it,

793
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:15,159
you have to also at your heart be a fan

794
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,519
of the sport. And I know that you are. But

795
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:19,239
do you ever take a minute to think, like of

796
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:21,480
not that you that the fighters are the ones that

797
00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:24,800
are doing what people remember for the most part, but

798
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,960
that you are at least a small piece of this

799
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:29,960
you know, historical fight that you've worked, whatever the championship

800
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,719
fight is that you work, whether it's the heavyweight title

801
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,599
with Wilder and hear the other matches you just mentioned, Like,

802
00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:36,239
do you kind of like pinch yourself a little bit

803
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,800
go back and ever watch them or read about them

804
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,599
or think about them and just know that you're a

805
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:42,599
part of like the great fabric of this this time

806
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:45,320
frame and in the sports history.

807
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,679
Speaker 2: Yes, now I'll tell you what happens during when you're

808
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,639
a referee. For me, anyways, all I wanted to do

809
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,320
is be the best Jacklice I could be each night,

810
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,119
and so I didn't really worry about what other rest

811
00:35:58,159 --> 00:35:59,599
were doing and try.

812
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: To beat them. Is how do you beat somebody else?

813
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,199
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying anyway, I just always concentrated

814
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:05,800
be the best you could be. And it was sad

815
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,840
in a sense that I would come out of a

816
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,360
like I came out of the Wilder Fury fight and

817
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,760
people you don't congratulating and I fight all that stuff,

818
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,960
and I was enjoying it with my wife on the

819
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,360
way home, and I was already thinking about the next

820
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,559
fight I had. And you don't really get a chance.

821
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,239
If you want to be the best you could be.

822
00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:26,320
You can't sit and you.

823
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,039
Speaker 3: Know, pat yourself on the back and stuff. You got

824
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,760
to look at those fights and see what you could have.

825
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: Done different or better. And now that I'm done, since

826
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,199
all this and people like yourself have been asking me questions,

827
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:39,320
I've been taken back.

828
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm so blessed in I can't even tell you.

829
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate the opp of the fact that

830
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,920
I was part of some of these these fights, that

831
00:36:48,159 --> 00:36:50,320
that I've been part of it, it's just amazing and.

832
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 3: I love you. Well.

833
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,119
Speaker 1: I can just say congratulations on a great prayer. And

834
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,119
I would assume that in the next couple of years,

835
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,519
if next year, we will see the name of Jack

836
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:00,800
Reese on the international Boxing Hall of Fame Doubt, which

837
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,599
I have voted for from the years. I don't think

838
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:04,280
i'm breaking any grounder to say that I will be

839
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,239
my honor to vote for you when you appear on

840
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,280
the ballot. Jack, thank you very much for your time,

841
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,400
you Bet, and I wish you good luck and I

842
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,920
hope next time in LA, if you're judging, I'm going

843
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:13,800
to see run at the fights.

844
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:16,559
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, thank you for the opportunity to come on

845
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:17,719
your show. I appreciate you

846
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,119
Speaker 1: Very much, you Bet, Thank you, sir,