Speaker 1: Well, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome to our
podcast this week, Jack Reese. We're not hearing from a
fighter this week. We're not hearing from a promoter. We're
hearing from one of the best referees in the last
twenty five years, probably one of the best referees in
boxing history. It is Jack Reese. Jack, you you caught
I think some people by surprise two weeks ago or
early December when you announced that you're retiring. You've had
a career spanning twenty five years as a referee one thousand,
one hundred and fifty two professional boxing matches that according
to Box Trek, So we're here to talk about your
great career. Thank you very much for joining me on
the show today, Dan.
Speaker 2: Thanks you very much for having me. What a great opportunity,
and I appreciate it very much. You bet you for
that great introduction.
Speaker 1: What I forgot to mention actually is, within the context
of that total of one hundred and fifty two fights
is more than one hundred world championship fights. So congratulations
on an outstanding career, and I'm glad we can kind
of review it. This will consider this like your exit interview.
How about that sounds great. So first off, you had
your what I guess was your final was in August
August third in Los Angeles, and most people were familiar
with your career know that by and large you work
for the California State Athletic Comission, although you have done
fights and other jurisdictions and world title fights in other
parts of the country and other parts of the world.
But when you when you did that that event on
August thirty, you were the referee for the Terrence Crawford
fight against Israel Majemov, when Terrence Crawford won the WBA
Junior Middleway title, And I actually, uh, I you know,
we I'll let folks know we we chanted a couple
of emails and stuff because I wrote a story about
your retirement. I actually meant to ask you this, uh,
when we were going back and forth when you refereed
Terrence Crawford against Israel Majimov going into the ring then like,
did you know this was going to be your last
fight or had you not yet decided what you were
doing or didn't know maybe about what the upcoming schedule
was from the commission.
Speaker 3: I knew it was my last fight. Let anybody else know.
I knew who was you being my last fight.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this for a while, and I
had a wonderful year.
Speaker 3: Let me back up in serious.
Speaker 2: Athletes and officials sometimes stayed around too long and they
become like a how I say, it's a shell of themselves.
And that's that's something I've wanted for myself. And I
never thought about going past my sixty ninth birthday from
year years ago. I never ever thought I'd go past
sixty nine.
Speaker 3: Sixty nine is coming up in April, and I had
a great year.
Speaker 2: This last year ended up. It started with Devin Haney
and Regi's program and Gilberto desert Riverez against Arson and Bouliaverian,
Emmanuel not Ready, Dennis burd.
Speaker 3: In check, and then Terrence Croffett Israel Magim.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty good run in just a few months.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just said, why not go out on top.
Speaker 2: If this goes well, I'll pull the plug before my
sixty ninth and go out my way. And no one
had to tell me it's time for you to sit down.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that a boxing fans would look
maybe a lot of boxers and say they wish they
could have the same sort of of uh, look at
their own careers and not hanging around for too long
and not show up as opponents. And basically what you're
saying is you didn't want to be the equivalent of
a referee opponent of a of a of a good name,
but a guy that was gonna lose. Maybe you know
what I.
Speaker 3: Mean a hundred percent.
Speaker 2: But also I'd never I would never be able to
live with myself if my oh you know, because of
age fall the time is undefeated, if my own physical
ability started getting in the way of me being able
to protect the fighter, I couldn't live with myself as
somebody that I heard and that none of that happened.
And I said, you know what, it's a good time
to get.
Speaker 3: Out of here before any of that happens. And that's
what I did.
Speaker 1: So there was no other like compelling reason. It wasn't
like a health thing or you got some other job
or some other opportunity. You just just all the things
you just mentioned. You said, you know what, you looked
at your career, Say you know what, over eleven hundred fights,
a lot of big time events, and uh, uh, so far,
so good. And why I pushed to push the envelope.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: I also looked at, you know, do twenty two to
thirty six year old monsters fighting for their life and
their career when a sixty nine year or older in
the ring managing that thing it.
Speaker 3: Mentally twenty years ago, I never thought. I thought that
wasn't going to be right. And I've always told myself
to the standard. I've always watched.
Speaker 2: Myself, you know, the changes that have gone through my.
Speaker 3: Body, and I just said, I can't do.
Speaker 2: What I used to do, and I don't want to
get it to a point where I can't do what
I want to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody should have that judgment. I think, whatever
your political affiliation, a lot of people might say the
same thing about the presidents that we've had of the
United States of America. Yes, So what I was interested
also is this because we know how your career is
coming to an end in terms of a of a referee.
But I don't know the answer this. How did you
actually get involved in terms of to be a referee
in the first place.
Speaker 3: Well, it was something I always wanted to do.
Speaker 2: I fought a little bit an amateur. I was an
amateur cond that kickboxer. I did some boxing. I was
a fireman for thirty one years with the Los Angeles
Fire Department and we fought against the LAPD and.
Speaker 3: The other county sheriffs. And when I was thirty, I was.
Speaker 2: Getting you know, I did my last fight and I go,
you know what I set off?
Speaker 3: I get punction in the head.
Speaker 2: And I always had it in my head that I
wanted to be something involved with professional sports and.
Speaker 3: Pro ref I taught myself out of.
Speaker 2: It for about eight years, and then about thirty eight
thirty nine, I started looking back into it, and I
was very fortunate my timing was correct.
Speaker 3: I guess it was not in my time. It's in
God's time.
Speaker 2: As they say, you know. And right when I started
approaching this, many of the older.
Speaker 3: The officials in the California State Athletic.
Speaker 2: Commission were getting old, and the commission demanded.
Speaker 3: That they put together a training program. We're going to
bring in some new officials. And I happened to be
in one of those guys.
Speaker 2: And there was one hundred and four people that got
into this class. And I gotta tell you, I get
into this little room in the LA Boxing Gym, my
buddy Olympic audatorium, and.
Speaker 3: There's one hundred and four people stuffed.
Speaker 2: Into this room and I'm looking on and it's all the.
Speaker 3: Signs of the referees and you know, people that knew everybody.
And I'm sitting there going, God, I'm in trouble. I'm
loadly here, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean Richard Steele's kid was in there, and then
many other officials signs and stuff like that, and daughters too.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I guess said they made the right choice, because here
we are twenty five years later and you have one
of the you know, more pristine reputations as a referee
and a resume to back it up that I can
think of. Anyway, I've been blessed.
Speaker 3: I've been really blessed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now now that the days of being the third
man in the ring are concluded, as I wrote, and
you mentioned when I wrote the article about your your
announcement of your retirement, that you are going to now
move towards more judging boxing matches with the California Commission.
You have some experience doing that. Can you tell me
a little bit of out just what your planning to
do now in terms of whether it's judging you mentioned
maybe being involved with the Commission as one of their
ringside replay officials that are involved when there's a controversial call,
that they need to take a look at the video
to talk to me a little bit about what those
plans are and when that's going to start.
Speaker 3: So exactly what you said.
Speaker 2: One of the things about working in California, when you
become a referee, it's mandatory.
Speaker 3: That you also have to have proficiency in judging.
Speaker 2: So I learned both on the layup. And I don't
know if people are aware of it or you're aware
of it, but I've done over five hundred professional fights
as a judge as well.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know you get judging, just maybe not to
the same level of because you're not on camera. You're
not on the TV in front of everybody, so most
people they know the ref but they don't necessarily know
who the judges are. But I, yeah, sure know that
you've done plenty of fights as one of the judges.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I've been able to do world title bouts
and all that stuff. But when Andy Foster came to
California like fourteen years ago, uh.
Speaker 3: He was looking.
Speaker 2: He had his plan on what he was going to do,
and he told me Jack, I'm going.
Speaker 3: To be primarily using it as a referee. I wasn't
gonna argue with the guy I like.
Speaker 1: Referee, So we'll just help so people know for what
we're talking about. Andy Fosser as the executive director of
the California Commission correct And.
Speaker 2: Uh So for the last fourteen years I've been used
for domin he as a referee, did some judging along
the way, But prior to that, I did world title fights.
I refereed. I'm sorry I.
Speaker 3: Judged Orlando Toledo and the silly long chanker.
Speaker 2: I judge that fight, and I judged tile ballots and
stuff like that in the past. So I'm going to
focus now and I want to stay with the boxing
family and until I can't contribute anymore.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I love the atmosphere. You know, it's in your blood, Dan,
It's just like you. You can't get rid of it.
Speaker 1: I think we're both lifers, just do different things within
the context of the sport, and.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people like us. And once it's
in your blood, you can't get it out. And you
give me the opportunity to evolved. And but What also
we're trying to develop.
Speaker 3: Here in California is a permanent incident.
Speaker 2: Review office for instant replay official and it's a really
vital part of UH professional sports in other sports, and
it's slowly making its way into professional boxing.
Speaker 3: It's a great tool. I think the.
Speaker 2: Fans just wanted just want the mission and the officials
to get it right.
Speaker 1: Sure they're not so, I'm no sure. Do you definitely
want to get it right? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Well, they're not so.
Speaker 2: Many at you when you make a mistake, as long
as you can correct it. And I got no ego
in the sense that if I miss a knockdown or
a head butt and I call it a knocked on
and replay, you know, shows me a different angle. Yeah,
it's hey, I made a mistake. Let's let's move on.
Let's change the call and move on because at the end,
the fighter didn't get cheated and the right people, you know.
Speaker 3: Win the fight.
Speaker 1: Now, do you stay around involved in the commission as
somebody that's like a mentor to the younger referees. I
say this because I've had the great pri which to
be in California for many fights. I've sat in and
watched you for example, conduct a rules meeting like sat
like a fly on the wall in the back and
watch you go through where you tell the camps and
you know, deal with how you're going to call the fight,
the hand wrappings, all the business that goes on, uh,
you know after the weigh ins where where you go
through all the rules and obviously all the referees, you
know they they're going to want to learn that type
of stuff too. Are you going to be involved in
maybe the workshops or the instruction or the mentoring of
other young officials coming up?
Speaker 2: Dan, I always have been, and I'm one of the
three certified Referee instructors for the Association of Boxington Commissions.
I travel around the world certifying referees, giving classes and stuff.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: The last one I did was at the WVO conference
in Puerto Rico and then North Carolina. I've got one
coming up in Phoenix that smunk. And I'm always doing
that and I get a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people from all over the world.
Speaker 2: A referee's have set me called me up and being
meat at the conventions whatever they can call me up,
and I've been helping that, assisting them be the best that.
Speaker 3: They could be. They send me videos and situations they've
been in and I and I never tell them. You know,
I don't criticize them. I critique them.
Speaker 2: I go, look, it's not about right and wrong, It's
about what could you do different or better if this situation.
Speaker 3: Comes up again. You can't change that one, but you
got to learn from this. So we go over that stuff.
And I've been doing that for years.
Speaker 2: And I also got a private training referee training course
with the assistants of a couple of other guys that
created and I've invited you to in the pass and.
Speaker 3: You're more than welcome to come again come this year.
I'd appreciate it.
Speaker 2: The Vegas Cold Soul Arbitter Elite Boxing referee training.
Speaker 3: So far in four years, we've had.
Speaker 2: About two hundred officials from all over the world come through.
Speaker 3: And the best.
Speaker 2: Compliment I can get is that you know, they keep
coming back right so and they call us up with
their success stories as well as a challenging situation.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: All right, now, you know the time of the interview
was going to come where we have to talk about
your highest profile fight, probably the most significant moment anyway
that I can think of in terms of the action
in the ring. You know exactly what I am talking about.
December one, twenty eighteen, Staples Center in Los Angeles. I
was ringside. It was the heavyweight championship of the world.
It was Deontay Wilder, who at the time was the
WBC heavyweight champion. Tyson Fury was still the lineal champion.
They were having the first fight of what turned out
to be their epic trilogy. It was an interesting fight
all the way through. Tyson Fury had gotten knocked down
in round nine, But the big moment, Jack, you know
where I'm going here. Around twelve, Tyson Fury with a
suffer as a massively heavy knockdown. I've maintained for every
moment since that occurred that while probably ninety nine percent
of the referees in boxing would have stopped the fight
without counting because he went down so heavily, Jack Reese
was one of the very very few that at the
very least was going to assess him. You made the
decision by some not by me, that you made the
wrong call. I believe you were proven right because Tyson
Furry got up, he beat the count, he won the
rest of the round, and he ended up getting a
draw in the fight. So, and this has come up
a lot because the fury's been in the news because
of his fight with us Sick. It was in the
news a lot of people were talking about it because
of the announcement of your retirement. Can you take me through
just your thoughts about that situation in the twelve round
of that fight, which obviously will you know, be a
fight that you know, every every great athlete or referee
or officials remembered for something or other. It seems to
me that you know, among all the big fights you've done,
that's the one that people are going to point to
when they think about Jack g Reecee.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy that I was part of that moment
and it went the way it went. I do have
a little something to expressed that a lot of my
experience comes from the Los Angeles Fire Department, being an
EMT for over thirty one years and writing for nineteen
years as a captain on a paramedic engine company, going
out to shooting standings, car accident's beating, and I'm very
familiar with trauma. I'm very comfortable with trauma because I
personally assessed and watched my firefighters and paramedics assessed trauma
victims constantly, so I've learned a little bit about trauma.
Then being a boxing referee, I'm comfortable with it because
I get to see the progression of damage right in
front of me, and I get to see the punch
the guy gets hit with.
Speaker 3: It's called the mechanism of visiony.
Speaker 2: I get to see it while that's happening and watch
his body language.
Speaker 3: So I got a.
Speaker 2: Little advantage there from that experience.
Speaker 3: And this was a highly contested fight, Daniels.
Speaker 2: You remember in the day before at the press conference
there was a football field sized room filled.
Speaker 3: With press Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: I was absolutely and you were in it.
Speaker 3: I never saw something.
Speaker 1: You know that was a huge That was a huge deal.
That was a big fight.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this highly heavyweight championship in the world, the
first one in Los Angeles in twenty one years. Two
monsters huge then, and they were both boxing very incredibly.
I could you know, My thought was going in the fight,
Tyson Fury's doing pretty good.
Speaker 3: He's moving, he's bouncing. I wonder if he can keep
this up. That's what my thought was. And in the
ninth in the ninth round. When he got knocked down.
Speaker 2: It was a glancing bloated you know, knocked this balance off.
He got right back up, no problem, and we went
back to boxing. And when he went down in the
twelfth round, it was two extremely good shots for right
hand and the left hand and dropped him. But unlike
everybody else.
Speaker 3: I'm trained.
Speaker 2: I'm watching how he falls and how he lands and
what he does. And people think that he fell flat
on his back and his head slammed against the canvas.
Speaker 3: If that was the case, I probably would have waved
it off. But what actually happened is he fell down, took.
Speaker 2: The brunt of the fall on his forearm and elbow,
and then shoulder his head you know, went into a
whipping motion, but it never hit the canvas, and then
he rolled and laid.
Speaker 3: On his back.
Speaker 2: I pointed down, signaling that I was scoring a knockdown.
That's an breaker, right.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you missed that one up me,
we would have the interview.
Speaker 3: Pointed wild. It was great, I pointed. I didn't even
you know, I didn't take him to the corner. I
just pointed to the furthest corner. He went right over
and he was.
Speaker 1: Happy to do so well what you probably don't remember
or don't maybe watch it. He turned towards the crowd
and he gave the throats last gesture like he thought
the fight's over, and he walked to the corner.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, which is an interesting thing we could chat about.
But and then I picked up a detective count from
the timekeeper.
Speaker 3: Even though I was going through it in my mind, I.
Speaker 2: Picked up the count from the timekeeper and started getting closer,
and as I this is the important thing but I
picked up instinctively is when I turned to him, he
was laying flat on his back, but his right leg
was up, his knee was sent and he was resting
on a ball, but unser on the of his foot.
Speaker 3: That's a conscious act.
Speaker 2: If he was unconscious, his leg would have been flat out.
Speaker 3: He would have, you know, no muscle control.
Speaker 2: Second thing I noticed stepping in as I got closer,
he was squeezing his gloves.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you.
Speaker 2: Guys ever saw this. If you watch it again, take
a look. So I said, there's something going on, you know, neurologically.
Speaker 3: Let me see what we got.
Speaker 2: And as I got in closer, I could see his
eyes were open they weren't open wide, but they were open,
And as I kneeled down, I wasn't even counting out
loud yet, But as I kneeled down, the thing I
saw was he tracked me with his eyes.
Speaker 3: He went from looking straight up to looking at me.
So I started to count.
Speaker 2: I think it was at four, and when I got
the five, he popped.
Speaker 3: His eyes wide open. Sixty rolled over and dan.
Speaker 2: A knockdown is any time due to illegal punch or punches,
that any part of about it of fider's body other.
Speaker 3: Than the soles of their feet are touching the canvas.
Speaker 2: Conversely, you are no longer considered down once no part
of your body.
Speaker 3: A litted the soles of your feet touching the canvas.
And as I was finishing.
Speaker 2: The word nine, there was no part of his body
touching the canvas.
Speaker 1: Right, And there's been there's been some people that claim
it's a long count, And I've always maintained that Tyson
Fury is paying attention to the referee, and every referee
has a different cadence that they count. It's not supposed
to be necessarily ten seconds on the stopwatch. It's the
ten count from the official. So some referees might count
slightly slower, some might count a little bit quicker. And
is if the fighter is watching the ref and knows
where he's at in the count and gets up before
he says the word ten, he's up? Am I wrong
about that?
Speaker 3: You're one hundred percent correct.
Speaker 2: Additionally, it's supposed to mirror account of ten seconds, but
no one's exact and no one's perfect.
Speaker 3: Right. I got to tell you, I was very fortunate
that night.
Speaker 2: I went over at one hundred times afterward because of
the controversy, and my account was spot on.
Speaker 3: I was at nine and nine was on the clock.
Speaker 2: So you know, they can say what they want, but
there's always people that are betting money in there. You know,
they're arguing with their heart instead of what's really well.
Speaker 1: The other thing, Jack, is this some and I think
this this clouds the view of some that looked at
that particular situation. When he's up and then you, like
every other referee is is instructed to do by the commission,
walk to me, take a step here, wipe the glove.
In other words, there is a few seconds of protocol
after you're up on your feet, and.
Speaker 2: In the old days they got them up they wiped
their gloves, they.
Speaker 3: Let them go and the guy got knocked out. The
ringside physicians.
Speaker 2: Who have you know, do study this and concussions constantly
say you there's got to be a better way to
assess a guy when he's been concussed.
Speaker 3: And over the years ex change he used to be
you get him up, questions, then you wipe his glugs.
Speaker 2: Then you get them up, you ask him questions, you
make them walk to you wipe his gloves.
Speaker 3: And in the recent last ten years, it's been.
Speaker 2: Make them walk to the right or left because they've
they've down in dirty turns. Any drunk can stagger forward.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, they can. They can bullshit
you and walk forward a little bit right.
Speaker 2: But using your legs to cross over takes more cognitive
function in your brain. That's the best way to assess them.
It had started just before that, about a year before that,
in boxing and professional boxing, and.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately and unfortunately for me, I was.
Speaker 2: One of the first guys to use it in a
high profile fight.
Speaker 3: It's been it's been on the in the rule book.
Larry has it, wrote.
Speaker 2: It up in his policies a year or two before that,
and it's now in the ABC referees guidelines that you
to assess a guy who's concussed not talking on a
body shot. Dad, I'm talking about a heavily cancust guy.
And you do you feel that his ability to n
tells he to send himself as questionable?
Speaker 3: You make him walk to the right or.
Speaker 2: Left and demonstrate he's in full control of his body.
Speaker 1: And Fury did that and he and like I said
when we started this part of the discussion, that he
proved that your decision was correct because after the fight resumed,
he went and I think it's clear he was the
winner of the rest of the round. He certainly didn't
get knocked down again or show ill effects from the
knockdown and ended up boxing well in the in the
you know, the last whatever it was about what two
minutes or so left in the round, and ended up
win the draw in the fight. So as I started
to say, this was your highest profile, biggest moment in
all the twenty five years, do you agree with that?
Is this your biggest moment in the ring as a referee.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've had other.
Speaker 2: Interesting and wonderful moments, but this was the most high
profile one because the amount of eyes on it and.
Speaker 3: The size of these two guys and the fact that
it was a heavyweight of division and all that stuff,
and I'm blessed to be part of it.
Speaker 1: So how about you, yeah, exactly, how about you give
us a couple of those other moments you mentioned besides that,
that that in your mind you that you remember from
the fights, And I'm gonna just I'm gonna give the
folks a little bit of a list of I went through.
I literally, Jack, I went through when I was doing
the story about your retirement a couple of weeks ago.
I went through the entirety. I think it's like nineteen
pages on box or something like that. I literally looked
through every single page and went through and called a
handful of the biggest fights. And there's way more than this,
so I'll just read a few of them. There's there's
dozens and dozens of major fights, but just to name
a few Errol Spence Junior Sean Porter was a welterweight
unification fight, Gervonta Tank Davis against your york As gamboa
triple G against Marco Antonio Rubio, and you did other
triple G fights in La Also, Terrence Crawford, Julius and
Dono where you traveled to Nebraska when he became the
unisputed junior welterweight champion. That was one of the great
atmospheres I've ever been in. Bernard Hopkins getting knocked out
of the ring by Joe Smith and what was Bernard's
final fight, Leo Santa Cruz abnermar is One. La Staples
Center was on fire that night. Lomachenko, Gary Russ, Michael Kessler,
andre Ward in a big super middleweight world championship fight.
You also worked five seasons of the Contender reality series,
So that's just a smattering of some of those fights.
But you had you were saying you hadn't met have
a couple of It doesn't have to be from those fights,
by the way, Jackabie, from anything you said, some other
sort of what endearing and funny stories from some other
big fights you worked, or even small fights you worked.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and I want everybody to know that being a
boxing referee isn't glamorous as people might think. They fly
as coach, they get us in and how fast you know,
we don't make a lot of money.
Speaker 3: And you find yourself doing things for.
Speaker 2: Boxing like wearing an RCLE headband with camera in it.
Speaker 1: I remember that what fight was that? I said, I
remember that what fight was that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: You know, but you know, I've always had this attitude
of do what's best for boxing. And I learned that
actually from having conversations with people like you.
Speaker 3: But in this case it was Max.
Speaker 2: Kellum when were having a conversation about something controversial.
Speaker 3: And he says, because that one's best for boxing.
Speaker 2: And when I got done with that, I walked away saying, Wow,
there's mortal than just two guys in front of you.
And anyway, I wanted them headband with the thing.
Speaker 1: It was a camera. It was a camera there right,
a camera.
Speaker 2: It was a camera the thing and I was miked
and then I have had funny situations.
Speaker 3: I ended up. They asked me to do some celebrity boxing.
Speaker 2: I refereed Octo Maal against Amy Fisher and the same night,
what's his face? The baseball player I'm drawing a blank
right now from Oakland.
Speaker 1: He leaves like, oh yeah, Jose Cano, Jose Canseco.
Speaker 3: I refereed Jose I can't remember who I refereed him against.
And Ron Jaredy was the ring and I'm.
Speaker 2: Sitting this and I and I literally in between fights,
I went over to the promoter.
Speaker 3: It was such a sham, a sham, this whole thing.
I went over to the promoter. I said, if you don't.
Speaker 2: Pay me in cash right now, me and the timekeeper leaving,
that's how we had to get paid.
Speaker 1: Did they pay you is the question?
Speaker 3: Yeah they did, And I got back in the ring
and it was crazy fights. Ronnie King jumped into the
ring and the robe he came out of nowhere. He
wasn't even on the card. He didn't fight, He just
like jumped in the ring. It was a crazy situation.
Speaker 2: But back to the pros on a really interesting situation.
Speaker 3: Was you remember the fight between Andre war.
Speaker 1: And Edward Vegaz, I sure do, if I'm not mistaken,
wasn't Edwin Rodriguez was like several pounds overweight, and Andre
actually showed himself to be a real mensch because he
was going to get paid quite a bit of extra
money from Edwin Rodriguez's purse. And I guess when the
fight was over, the way the story goes is that
he asked the Rodriguez team or something like that, like,
you know, what's his situation, meaning like his family, his
money and in the end, you know, Edwin had not
made a lot of money, and Andre was like, you
know what, let him keep the money. So he was
he was pretty cool about it.
Speaker 2: Well, he was ten pounds overweight for a super middleweight fights, right,
and they hated each other.
Speaker 3: That brought more attention.
Speaker 2: Uh what's his name of? Rodriguez got fired. Two hundred thousand,
one hundred went to the commission, one hundred went to ward.
I didn't know the story.
Speaker 3: You just told me the award.
Speaker 1: Let him keep his money. At the end, he let
him keep that money.
Speaker 3: People back, That's wonderful. But I swear to God, then
you could cut the tension with a knife. And I
stepped into your wreen. I had my clothes, I.
Speaker 2: Had my bag in my hand, on my my shirts
and pants over my you know, on a hanger.
Speaker 3: On my shoulder, and I got approached by the promoter
Jack just starting into a ship show. You gotta tell.
I said, hey, Dan, I got this, We'll take control.
Speaker 2: Relaxed, you know, And then I took a I walked
one hundred feet and somebody from Rodriguez's.
Speaker 3: Camp came in started yelling me about something Wards doing.
When I went into the dressing.
Speaker 2: Rooms, it was usually there's a little festivity in the room,
that may be music playing. It was quiet as his
mouth in both places. And like I said, you can
cut the tension with a knife.
Speaker 3: And when they started fighting, it was of It.
Speaker 2: Was like two kids in a playground. They were wrestling
and being dirty like for the first three rounds. In
the fourth round, more of the same stuff.
Speaker 3: I was trying to be very just be progressive. Started
with progressive discipline.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to jump on him real hard,
real quick and start taking points. I said, world championship fight,
you end up boxing yourself at the corner and just
qualifying something.
Speaker 3: So yeah. So in the fourth round, though, it got
real ugly.
Speaker 2: Rodriguez ended up having Ward in in a guillotine.
Speaker 3: His head was between his arm, and.
Speaker 2: That happens, and I said stop, and Rodriguez started walking
back and lifting his arm choking Ward. Everybody can hear
me saying stop. And then Rodriguez wasn't stopping, and so
Ward says, I'll take it in my own hands. I
started throwing left hands.
Speaker 3: Over the top. They hit the ropes. I had to
jump in and wrestle them off. And when I jump
in and to wrestle them off, I got.
Speaker 1: Hit with a left hand by I was gonna actually
ask you if you can remember a time, because I've
seen some things where there's a break and maybe a
ref takes it takes the brunt of a shot. And
so you did get clipped in that particular fight. And actually,
I'm sure that's not the only time.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it seems like they're always pointing for
my growing because all of us get hitting and growing
a lot. I don't know why when they're dropping their
gloves or you're breaking them whatever. But when I split
them up and you know, put them both in the corner,
I was a little bit buzzed.
Speaker 3: I hated a lie and I was like fifty years old.
Speaker 2: And I walked over the commission table to I was
trying to I was trying to slow everything down to
get it from spiraling that, you know, way out of control.
Speaker 3: And I walked over the commission table man Dan.
Speaker 2: There was five people, the commissioners and Andy Foster.
Speaker 3: Looking up at me like, oh my god, what are
you going to do with this? And it made me laught.
You know, maybe okay, I.
Speaker 4: Got this, I'll do something, and you know you ended
up what I ended up taking two points from each
of them and recommending fines with which the.
Speaker 3: Athletic Commission did because I was trying to.
Speaker 2: Let them know that we're not doing this main event
on HBO, a very important fight.
Speaker 3: This is not the way to behave, you know.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned I mentioned about eleven hundred and fifty
two fights, and you mentioned to me when we were
going back and forth when I was writing about the
retirement announcement, that you had in all those fights in
twenty five years as a professional referee had never disqualified
a fighter from any of the bouts you had worked.
And so when you tell me that story, that tells
me A, you as an official are able to get
the respect and take control of a fight which is
supposed to be the case, and b in a case
where maybe it was going a little bit sideways like that,
you never let your own emotions get the best of
you to to take a guy out of the fight
on a on a disqualification. Is that sort of the mindset,
the the way that a referee has to act to
understand it's not about them, it's about the fighters. I mean,
I know that if it's necessary, you would you would
have run a guy out of the fight. But it
tells me that you had the mindset and commanded the
respect from the guys that you're officiating, who knew they
weren't going to push the ultimate line.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, I got a little bit of flu still
let me dan one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And I just want to give you I tried to impose.
Speaker 2: This theory on some of the younger officials and some
of the older officials, but.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Speaker 2: When I do seminars, I ask people, hey, give me
a correlation to what you think your our job is
with some other job.
Speaker 3: And inevitably I have guys telling me a police.
Speaker 2: Officer, and some guys have actually told me a bullfighter.
Speaker 3: On a matador. And I said, guys, that's going to
get you in trouble. I go, a matador is all
about himself. A matador's wearing the fancy uniform. A matador
is the one, you know what, I'm saying, attention to themselves.
And I say, just what you said.
Speaker 2: I go, guys, it's not about you, it's not about us.
Speaker 3: I said, if you want to ask me and Dan,
this has.
Speaker 2: Been my attitude for not my whole career, but because
I had learned, but for the last twenty years. For sure,
I look at what we do as I'm an orchestra leader.
Speaker 3: Get out there, and people noticed me in.
Speaker 2: The beginning, and people understand that I got a job.
Speaker 3: They even announce what you are.
Speaker 2: But once the music starts playing, no one notices the orchestra.
Speaker 3: Leader because they're listening to the music. The only time
they noticed that orchestra leader is.
Speaker 2: That something dramatic it has to be played, and he
makes a dramatic move.
Speaker 3: And I've tried to remember myself.
Speaker 2: To that, stay the hell out of the way, being conspicuous,
don't I work hard. I've worked hard for twenty years
not to disqualify people.
Speaker 3: I go. A guy who.
Speaker 2: Uses a disqualification as a tool has got it wrong.
Speaker 3: It's like a cop thinking shooting and killing someone is
just a tool. It's not. It's a last resource.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm sure I'm sure there are
there there have been fights where where if it had
come to it, you would have been able to you
would have pulled the trigger and done it. But I'm
making a point Jack that because of the way you
conduct yourself, that you had the respect for them to
at least listen enough to not get themselves thrown out
of a fight. Not every referee has that respect from
the guys that they're visiating, but I will.
Speaker 5: But other than that, man, I respected them right because
I didn't want to have to. And if I my
attitude was if I'm taking points, but more importantly, if
I ever have to disqualify guy, I'm not disqualifying him.
Speaker 3: He's disqualifying himself. He's getting the points taken from himself.
Speaker 2: So the fans are going, I'm happy he did that.
I'm glad he finally did that.
Speaker 3: It's it's the guy he did it. I didn't do it.
If that makes sense to it, yes it does.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing unrelated to the points and the
deductions and the and the not disqualifying somebody. I'm looking
at the list of the names I read in terms
of the bigger fights you worked, and I know there's
so many others there. Who do you? I mean again,
now that you're not refereeing them, you can give your opinions.
I guess who's the who's the best fighter? You feel
like you ever watched in the ring as a referee.
I don't know if you. I can't think off the
top of my head if you ever refereed like a
you know, a Floyd Mayweather fighter, a Manny Packou fighter,
a Canelo fight, guys like that. But who's who do
you think was the best fighter you ever ref to
fight for?
Speaker 2: I can't say the best, but there's a there's a
top tier guys that I was. I was absolutely amazed
while I was in the ring. Guys like Momachenko beat
hop Triple G, guys got just our tacticians, and like
the smartest guy was Bernard Hopkins, no.
Speaker 3: Question about it.
Speaker 2: As a referee, if you're on his right, he's he's
throwing kidney shots.
Speaker 3: With his left hand.
Speaker 2: You move over to the other side to see he's
using in the other hands.
Speaker 1: He's throwing hip shots. He's throwing kidney shots. I've seen
him all do that.
Speaker 3: Here's how he is. He's always looking for an Advan's
always looking to win.
Speaker 2: When he was fighting Joel Smith and Joe threw a
borderline shot with no effect, but I wanted it wasn't
the first and I wanted Joe didn't know to keep
him up. So I very softly said, and Bernard had
no reaction, and I very softly said, Joe, keep them up.
Speaker 3: Nobody heard me except the fighters, right, And.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, Grabs is going.
Speaker 3: It starts, and I go not to shit off man.
He's always looking for an advantage.
Speaker 1: That sounds like Hopkins. I know that sounds just like him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and Loma watching him take the guy apart
and triple.
Speaker 3: G with his power and his uh, just so many guys.
I came to Andrew Ward. Oh my god, Nore, now
I'm watching Terrence.
Speaker 2: I've been in the room with Terrence Crawford and Jervarpa
Davis and h shown for Erol.
Speaker 3: Spence, all these guys that were just unbelievable.
Speaker 2: They're all good at certain things, and it was wonderful
being part of it.
Speaker 3: I was just blessed.
Speaker 1: So ill I'll wrap up then with this, Jack. You
know you just mentioned all these top fighters that you
about been in the ring with. In terms of the referee,
I know there's there's a bunch, you know, Feary Wilder also,
I'm sure in that list. Yeah, Oh my god, So
do you ever like I mean to do the refereeing
gig or judging gig as long as you do it.
To be a writer, like as long as I've done it,
you have to also at your heart be a fan
of the sport. And I know that you are. But
do you ever take a minute to think, like of
not that you that the fighters are the ones that
are doing what people remember for the most part, but
that you are at least a small piece of this
you know, historical fight that you've worked, whatever the championship
fight is that you work, whether it's the heavyweight title
with Wilder and hear the other matches you just mentioned, Like,
do you kind of like pinch yourself a little bit
go back and ever watch them or read about them
or think about them and just know that you're a
part of like the great fabric of this this time
frame and in the sports history.
Speaker 2: Yes, now I'll tell you what happens during when you're
a referee. For me, anyways, all I wanted to do
is be the best Jacklice I could be each night,
and so I didn't really worry about what other rest
were doing and try.
Speaker 3: To beat them. Is how do you beat somebody else?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying anyway, I just always concentrated
be the best you could be. And it was sad
in a sense that I would come out of a
like I came out of the Wilder Fury fight and
people you don't congratulating and I fight all that stuff,
and I was enjoying it with my wife on the
way home, and I was already thinking about the next
fight I had. And you don't really get a chance.
If you want to be the best you could be.
You can't sit and you.
Speaker 3: Know, pat yourself on the back and stuff. You got
to look at those fights and see what you could have.
Speaker 2: Done different or better. And now that I'm done, since
all this and people like yourself have been asking me questions,
I've been taken back.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm so blessed in I can't even tell you.
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate the opp of the fact that
I was part of some of these these fights, that
that I've been part of it, it's just amazing and.
Speaker 3: I love you. Well.
Speaker 1: I can just say congratulations on a great prayer. And
I would assume that in the next couple of years,
if next year, we will see the name of Jack
Reese on the international Boxing Hall of Fame Doubt, which
I have voted for from the years. I don't think
i'm breaking any grounder to say that I will be
my honor to vote for you when you appear on
the ballot. Jack, thank you very much for your time,
you Bet, and I wish you good luck and I
hope next time in LA, if you're judging, I'm going
to see run at the fights.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, thank you for the opportunity to come on
your show. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: Very much, you Bet, Thank you, sir,