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<v Speaker 1>Oh hey, it's the lady who keeps candles in her

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<v Speaker 1>wallet because you never know when you're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>in a pinch. And assume me someone's birthday, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be more excited about singing to them than they'll

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<v Speaker 1>be excited about being sunk to Ali. Ward back with

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<v Speaker 1>another episode of Ologies. Okay, you like brains? Does your

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<v Speaker 1>brain like brains? It probably does so right now, your soft,

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<v Speaker 1>squishy think lump is just hanging out in your head.

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<v Speaker 1>It's thinking about itself. How does it work? What's in there?

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<v Speaker 1>Why do I want to eat cool whip out of

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<v Speaker 1>the tub with my fingers? And why aren't I more

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<v Speaker 1>excited about folding my laundry? The answer molecular neurobiology. But

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<v Speaker 1>before we splash splash into your mood juices, let's take

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<v Speaker 1>care of some business up top, and thank all the

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<v Speaker 1>folks on patreon dot com slash ologies for being in

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<v Speaker 1>the club. You all support the show and you hear

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<v Speaker 1>what topics I'm working on first, and you submit your

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<v Speaker 1>questions for theologists. Thanks to everyone wearing ologies merch from

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<v Speaker 1>ologiesmerch dot com. Thanks to everyone whos an episode to

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<v Speaker 1>a friend or who subscribes on their devices and rates,

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<v Speaker 1>and especially in reviews, because you know, I read your

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<v Speaker 1>words and I pick afresheet to put on blast, such

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<v Speaker 1>as Dusky, who says they're falling back in love with

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<v Speaker 1>life and that theologists have shown me the light. The

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<v Speaker 1>world is a beautiful place, and with all these smart

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<v Speaker 1>monkeys out there, maybe, just maybe we have a chance

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<v Speaker 1>to share it with future generations. PS. Thanks to Ali,

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<v Speaker 1>I texted my crush and got some banks. Boy howdy, sincerely,

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<v Speaker 1>Dusky into that, I say hey. Also side note, happy

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<v Speaker 1>wedding Lizzy Vette. And hello to Kangaroo two, who left

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<v Speaker 1>me a one star review because they didn't like that

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<v Speaker 1>I named so many patrons who ask questions, but Kangaroo too.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't it nice to hear your name in a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>you love, isn't it? Kangaroo two just saying? Also, the

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<v Speaker 1>bat episodes just got a lot of questions. Okay, Kangaroo two,

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<v Speaker 1>it's freakin' bats. I hope I have proven my point

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<v Speaker 1>that people like to hear their names. But I get it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm gonna read faster. Okay. Molecular neurobiology, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>into it. Let's break it down. Molecules. The word derives

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<v Speaker 1>from the Latin for tiny mass, and neuro comes from

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<v Speaker 1>the Greek for sinew or chord or penis. Because neurons

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<v Speaker 1>are elongated they look like strings or chords or I

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<v Speaker 1>guess penises. Biology, of course the study of life, so

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<v Speaker 1>molecular neurobiology the study of the tiny masses that bring

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<v Speaker 1>our dick look and brain cells to life. I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>reading facts here now. This ologist got a bachelor's in

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<v Speaker 1>biochemistry at uc San Diego and later a PhD and

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<v Speaker 1>molecular neuroscience at Caltech. She's also a dancer, a gymnast,

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<v Speaker 1>a violinist, a TEDx youth speaker, a text strategist, and

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<v Speaker 1>a TV host for Voice of America, Al Jazeera, America, Seeker,

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<v Speaker 1>Discovery News, and more. She's an if THEN STEM Ambassador

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<v Speaker 1>for the American Association for the Advancement of Science and

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<v Speaker 1>a Linda Hill Philanthropies Literally she has appointed a role

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<v Speaker 1>model to other women and girls in science, technology, engineering,

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<v Speaker 1>in math fields. She also appears on segments of the

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<v Speaker 1>new CBS show Mission Unstoppable, where she is known accurately

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<v Speaker 1>as doctor Brain. I've known her for five years and

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<v Speaker 1>have adored her since we first sat down and shared

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<v Speaker 1>a basket of sweet potato fries in twenty fourteen, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was just straight up giddy to have her on

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<v Speaker 1>my couch and to ask her one million questions about

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<v Speaker 1>what a braid is made of in white matter and

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<v Speaker 1>gray matter, and what makes us happy? And how do

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<v Speaker 1>anidepressants work, and why are some substances addictive? What happens

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<v Speaker 1>on drugs? And can I have new habits? And what

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<v Speaker 1>is anxiety all about? And how depression works? And caffeine

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<v Speaker 1>hacks that may not work. So get ready to fill

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<v Speaker 1>your ears and the thing between your ears with all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of wisdom from wonderful person neuroscientist, your new good

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<v Speaker 1>friend and molecular neurobiologist, doctor Crystal Dilworth. Start recording. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you say your first and last name? Please pronounce it right,

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<v Speaker 1>Crystal Dilworth, or don't mean to spell it for you? No, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Dilworth, Doctor Dilware. I always like to ask this question.

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like when you like came out of

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<v Speaker 1>the room from defending and you were like, I'm doctor Dilworth.

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<v Speaker 2>So I came out of the room and my committee

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<v Speaker 2>was still in there deliberating, And normally that is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the scariest moments in anyone's life because you're not

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<v Speaker 2>sure what they're going to say.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was pretty sure because my committee chair had been like,

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<v Speaker 2>we're just going.

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<v Speaker 1>To chat for a little bit, we'll be right out.

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<v Speaker 2>They came out and they shook my hand and they

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<v Speaker 2>said congratulations, doctor Dilware, and I got an entirely new

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<v Speaker 2>lease on life. Oh my god, like everything changed.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you know growing up that you were going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a doctor or a neuroscientist. I mean, you are

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<v Speaker 1>really good at a lot of things, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that that sometimes is difficult.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I was going to be a dancer. I was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be on stage at Lincoln Center. Just like

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<v Speaker 2>all of the books that I had read about how

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<v Speaker 2>to be a professional ballet dancer had nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with science really.

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<v Speaker 1>And then, so were you studying ballet and then sneaking

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<v Speaker 1>into chem classes? How did it work?

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<v Speaker 2>Who were you cheating on scholastically? I think the decision

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<v Speaker 2>to go to grad school. I was definitely cheating on

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<v Speaker 2>my dance classes. So I was in professional dance school

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<v Speaker 2>in New York City doing the things that you have

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<v Speaker 2>to do to be a professional dancer, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't fulfilled by the experience. I think it's really hard.

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<v Speaker 2>I was lying about my age so that I could

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<v Speaker 2>be in the school to begin with. And dancers are

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<v Speaker 2>They're treated like empty vessels, right, the choreographer, the artistic director,

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<v Speaker 2>these are the people that are filling the empty vessel

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<v Speaker 2>with the intention. And when you have a bachelor's degree

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<v Speaker 2>in biochemistry and you're used to doing independent research as

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<v Speaker 2>an intern in a research lab, being treated like you

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<v Speaker 2>have nothing personally to contribute is very difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was looking for an opportunity to be an adult and

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<v Speaker 2>to be treated like I had something to intellectually contribute.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't getting that in my artistic life. So I

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<v Speaker 2>started skipping my classes and taking the subway uptown to

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<v Speaker 2>Columbia and attending the chemistry department lectures, which is insane

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<v Speaker 2>now that I look back on it now, like nobody

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<v Speaker 2>goes to those lectures voluntarily, Like the grad students are

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<v Speaker 2>only there because of the free pizza. But I was

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<v Speaker 2>actually there for the intellectual stimulation, which is terrifying and awful.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, they give pizza out of these things. Otherwise nobody goes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, most of those like weekly lectures are accompanied by

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<v Speaker 2>some type of bribe.

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<v Speaker 1>So why neuroscience. Well, I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>I was always interested in people and their behavior because

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<v Speaker 2>maybe as a homeschooled kid that didn't have like a

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<v Speaker 2>really diverse social network. I mean I had a social network,

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<v Speaker 2>but not the diversity that you wouldn't see in like

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<v Speaker 2>public school, for instance.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people's their behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Seemed unfathomable to me, like I just don't understand, like

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<v Speaker 2>what is this programming and how does it work?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I thought, oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I would study history, maybe I would study sociology

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<v Speaker 2>or psychology. And my dad said no, no, he was like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not a real science. None of those are real sciences,

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<v Speaker 2>and you have to choose a real science.

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<v Speaker 1>What was your dad? Did your dad study?

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<v Speaker 2>Saying he yeah, his background is in physics. My mom's

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<v Speaker 2>background is in microbiology. That was what they understood, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think they were afraid of all the

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<v Speaker 2>things the parents are afraid of, like she's never going

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<v Speaker 2>to get a job, she's going to be destitute, she's

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<v Speaker 2>going to move back home with.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom right now.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, so FYI best laid plans of my

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<v Speaker 2>cin men.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but you're like an international traveler and you're like

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<v Speaker 1>about to move to Sumatra.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's true, Yeah it's there are reasons also that

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<v Speaker 2>I decided to move in with my mother to help

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<v Speaker 2>take care of her as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, like I said, this is their plan.

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<v Speaker 1>But so brains, like, do you start with molecular biology

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<v Speaker 1>when you decide? Okay, I want to figure out how

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<v Speaker 1>this weird big lump of stuff in my bone bowl

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<v Speaker 1>in my head works? Like where do you even begin

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<v Speaker 1>with that? Do you start with like neural anatomy? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you start with chemistry of it? Like?

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<v Speaker 2>For me, the eureka moment was I was taking organic

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<v Speaker 2>chemistry because you know, typical freshman okem when everybody has stake.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was also taking biopsychology, which is the closest

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<v Speaker 2>I could get to a psyche class and still like,

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<v Speaker 2>have this be approved? And I should like clarify that

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<v Speaker 2>I started college really young, so I was probably fourteen

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<v Speaker 2>or fifteen at this time, so my parents were still

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<v Speaker 2>approving my course load, so I was restricted in what

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<v Speaker 2>courses I could take based on their approval.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, wait, I've known you for four years

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<v Speaker 1>and I did not know that you started college at

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<v Speaker 1>fourteen or fifteen. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I started at a junior college, which you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your first two years are the types of courses st're

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<v Speaker 2>able to take there. And I transferred to a four

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<v Speaker 2>year college much later.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I don't think I was wearing a

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<v Speaker 1>broad at fourteen. I wasn't either. Your parents would have

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<v Speaker 1>obviously like, help you figure out what courses you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to take, so biopsychic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's kind of backfired because I was in biopsych

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<v Speaker 2>and they laid out in the book and in the

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<v Speaker 2>lecture the pictures of the different neurotransmitters, the chemicals in

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<v Speaker 2>our brain that sort of determined the brain functionality that

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<v Speaker 2>translates into behavior. And I would just learned from my

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<v Speaker 2>organic chemistry class how to identify the critical chemical functionalities,

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<v Speaker 2>like that's an oxygen group, like anoah group, hydroxyl, that's

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<v Speaker 2>a benzene ring, and sort of start to understand how

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<v Speaker 2>those things sort of fit with our biology.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was like the aha moment. If you're like, quick, word,

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<v Speaker 1>what is it benzene ring? It's not an oil gang,

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<v Speaker 1>but more elementally, it's six carbon atoms that are joined

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<v Speaker 1>in a ring with a hydrogen atom stuck to each

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<v Speaker 1>and she was like, ah, my brain loves this stuff. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Her bachelor's and biocam and so far, most of her

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<v Speaker 1>college courses were more generally about the human body chemistry

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<v Speaker 1>and didn't focus on the thinky parts of the human

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<v Speaker 1>body as much.

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<v Speaker 2>So I didn't really go back to focusing on the

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<v Speaker 2>brain until my senior year. So all of my upper

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<v Speaker 2>division electives were in neuroscience, and that's when I was like, Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>This is how I want to apply these things. What, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>stupid question. What is the difference between neuroscience, neurology, neurobiology,

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<v Speaker 1>molecular neurobiology. I feel like if you don't work with brains,

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, oh, olks, kind of call it a neuro

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<v Speaker 1>something or other. Like what are those different fields mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I'm going to take you on a little journey. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I am a first year graduate student. I have not

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<v Speaker 2>yet chosen a lab I am. I'm at cal Tech.

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<v Speaker 2>Every single person that I'm meeting is smarter than me.

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<v Speaker 2>I am incredibly intimidated and anxious and like, really really

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<v Speaker 2>need to do a good job otherwise I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>fail life. And I go into my first meeting with

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<v Speaker 2>the professor that's going to be my PhD thesis advisor.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't know that at the time, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>trying to impress him with how smart I am, and

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<v Speaker 2>I tell him I'm really interested in neurology and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really interested in brains and the things that brains do.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's like, I'm going to stop you right there,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm let you finish.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh God, if you're interested in neurology, then you should

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<v Speaker 2>be going to meet. We don't do neurology here. Neuroscience

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<v Speaker 2>is the science behind the brain, and we do research

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<v Speaker 2>on how the brain works, and we get PhDs and

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<v Speaker 2>that's the type of science that we can do on

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<v Speaker 2>the brain. Here are you still interested? And so that

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<v Speaker 2>is the difference. God, I would have had immediate reactive

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<v Speaker 2>diarrhea and just excuse myself from life. I would have

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<v Speaker 2>been like oops. But you know when you're so anxious

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<v Speaker 2>and your whole like fighter flight system is engaged and

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<v Speaker 2>you're kind of like too numb to it, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>just like, okay, take the hit and keep rolling, like

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<v Speaker 2>keep going, keep going, is nothing you can do about it.

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<v Speaker 1>So what is a neurologist exactly. Okay, they are physicians,

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<v Speaker 1>medical doctors with mds, probably stethoscopes, I don't know who

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<v Speaker 1>treat neurological diseases and disorders that affect the nerves and

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<v Speaker 1>spinal cord and of course the brain. So you can

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<v Speaker 1>show up in their office and say, please talk fix me.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a neurologia. I honestly don't know about the deethoscopes.

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<v Speaker 1>I just made that up. They might not even need them,

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<v Speaker 1>but you get the general aesthetic, and a neuroscientist.

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<v Speaker 2>Studies the science behind how the brain works and why

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<v Speaker 2>the brain works, so you have to have knowledge of

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<v Speaker 2>some of that stuff, but it's mostly like hypothesis driven investigation. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So a brain, what is it? What is this big?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it mostly fat?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it? Is it proteins? What is it made of? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all those good things.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all fats and proteins and carbohydrates all smushed together

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<v Speaker 2>into a collection of different types of cells.

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<v Speaker 1>There's like eighty.

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<v Speaker 2>Billion neurons and they're all sort of smushed together, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's different types of those neurons, those brain cells, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're clustered together in different areas, and those different areas

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<v Speaker 2>have specific functions that all have to work together, and

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of what we think of as that like

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<v Speaker 2>the orchestra of the brain as an organ.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's like not even it. But wait, there's more.

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<v Speaker 2>There's like a whole other layer of cells we call

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<v Speaker 2>them glial cells or astrocytes that help those neurons to function.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so it's not just neurons, but there's like a

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<v Speaker 2>whole other set of support cells. And they're not even

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<v Speaker 2>really support cells because they doing really important stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And what are the astrocytes and glial cells do? They

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<v Speaker 1>do so many things.

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<v Speaker 2>So my favorite type of support cell is the cell

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<v Speaker 2>that creates myelination around electrons. So that's like little wire

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<v Speaker 2>insulators to help the electric part of the signal go

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<v Speaker 2>faster down the axon of the neurons, so I can

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<v Speaker 2>like send if I'm a cell in your cell, and

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<v Speaker 2>I can send my message to you like way faster

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<v Speaker 2>because of the insulation. And that's actually one of the

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<v Speaker 2>last parts of brain maturation. So when we talk about

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<v Speaker 2>brains like not being fully cooked until our mid twenties

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<v Speaker 2>and we're still developing, one of the last things that

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<v Speaker 2>things that happened is that insulation process goes in in

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<v Speaker 2>that prefrontal cortex area, which is so important for decision making.

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<v Speaker 1>So glial cells are a support cell and glial means

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<v Speaker 1>glue because it was thought that glial cells just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of held all the neurons together, kind of like a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of mashed potatoes around a pile of yarn. But

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<v Speaker 1>they do so much more than that. And there are

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<v Speaker 1>different types that do different things. We won't go into

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<v Speaker 1>all of them. But the astrocytes are starry shaped, hence

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<v Speaker 1>astro and they give nutrients to neurons, they help repair damage,

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<v Speaker 1>and the all they got. Dendrocytes insulate the neurons in

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<v Speaker 1>the brain by laying down this fatty cozy padding called mylin,

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<v Speaker 1>which is like rubber around an electrical cord or a

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<v Speaker 1>snuggie that protects you from live wires. Now, if you

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<v Speaker 1>have multiple sclerosis like my mom aka our dear Fancy Nancy,

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<v Speaker 1>who taught you the best insomnia hack ever in the

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<v Speaker 1>Somnology episode, the immune system of folks with MS likes

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<v Speaker 1>to eat away at that mylin and cause nerve and

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<v Speaker 1>signaling troubles. To side note, thank you to all the

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<v Speaker 1>neuroscientists and neurel just working to find a cure for MS.

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<v Speaker 1>We appreciate it and I want to interview you about

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<v Speaker 1>it please. Now, why is it important for these diva

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<v Speaker 1>neurons to be so supported and so insulated? What do

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<v Speaker 1>they look like? What do they do? Now? Neurons themselves,

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<v Speaker 1>those are long and have fingers at one end, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of can you explain what a neuron is?

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<v Speaker 2>They can be long, they can be short, but the

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<v Speaker 2>critical parts of the neuron are the cell body, which

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<v Speaker 2>is where all the good stuff happens, just like a

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<v Speaker 2>normal cell, and the axon, which is sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>that long wire that connects one end to whatever other

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<v Speaker 2>cell it wants to wants to talk to. There's projections

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<v Speaker 2>both from on each side of the neuron. Those would

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<v Speaker 2>be considered like dendrites, and those dendrites create the connections

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<v Speaker 2>which we call synapses that are house cells talk.

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<v Speaker 1>To each other. So it's like sort of the main

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<v Speaker 1>main parts. So neurons, they're a cell with a sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>long axon to reach out to other cells and little

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<v Speaker 1>fingery dendrites at the end. And you may remember the

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<v Speaker 1>dentrology episode with Casey Clapp about trees so just think

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<v Speaker 1>of those little branches at the end of the neurons.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are dendrites. They also kind of look like if

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<v Speaker 1>a bird had a bunch of toes and then those

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<v Speaker 1>toes had toes. That's your brain. Okay, So how are

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<v Speaker 1>all these neurons just chit chatting? Gabin? They're shooting the

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<v Speaker 1>shit running the show up there? What are they doing?

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite part of neuroscience is the fact that neurons

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<v Speaker 2>use both electricity and chemicals. Oh it's like communication. Okay, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 1>So the really.

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<v Speaker 2>Important part of neurons is that there's like all of

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<v Speaker 2>these little gates that are like regulating the ions flowing

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<v Speaker 2>in and out of them.

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<v Speaker 1>And like ions are.

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<v Speaker 2>Like magnesium, calcium, sodium, these are really chlorine. Theose are

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<v Speaker 2>really important, and they're just like constantly moving back and forth.

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<v Speaker 2>But because all of those ions are charged, you get

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<v Speaker 2>like a little electrical fear from each of the different cells.

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<v Speaker 2>And so if I wanted to pass a signal to you,

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<v Speaker 2>it would start as an electrical field that goes all

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<v Speaker 2>the way down my axon due to the opening and closing,

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<v Speaker 2>opening and closing and ions. But then it gets the

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<v Speaker 2>end and I can't transmit electricity to you because there's

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<v Speaker 2>a little gap, And so what does a cell do.

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<v Speaker 2>The cell's like, okay, crap, we have to communicate to

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<v Speaker 2>the alley cell. She likes serotonin. We're going to release

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<v Speaker 2>serotonin into this little gap. And so that's when the

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<v Speaker 2>electrical signal gets converted into a chemical signal, which you

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<v Speaker 2>can read because you speak the serotonin language. Because you

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<v Speaker 2>have little proteins on the ends of you on like

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<v Speaker 2>the end of your synaps and you are catching all

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<v Speaker 2>of those little serotonin molecules and bring them into you,

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<v Speaker 2>and when there's enough of them, it generates another electrical

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<v Speaker 2>signal that you can send.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. And how many cells are doing this

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<v Speaker 1>all the time in our brain lumps?

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know how many cells would be active

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<v Speaker 2>at a given time because it really depends on what

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing. But if you think there's like eighty billion

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<v Speaker 2>neurons and then there's like estimate like one hundred trillion synapses,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my god. Because it's not necessarily one synapse per

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<v Speaker 2>or two synapses per cell. You can have more connections.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a lot. Yeah, we're talking.

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<v Speaker 1>The final number is a shit ton many many zeros. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and so neurotransmitters, this is like a chemical messenger that

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<v Speaker 1>cells are sending to each other. Yeah, and what are

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<v Speaker 1>the main neurotransmitters. I know we hear about dopamine and

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<v Speaker 1>serotonin and maybe neuropinephrine, but take me through some of

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<v Speaker 1>the players here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I think dopamine is like the media darling

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<v Speaker 2>of the neurotransmitter world. You have a lot of specific

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<v Speaker 2>chemical like the three that you mentioned, that are involved

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<v Speaker 2>in a lot of behaviors. But then there's other types

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<v Speaker 2>of messengers as well. So we have small like peptides

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<v Speaker 2>like we would say oxytocin, which it's not necessarily a

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<v Speaker 2>formal neurotransmitter, but it's really critical in modulating brain function

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<v Speaker 2>and behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, oxytocin, you may have heard, is a neuropeptide,

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<v Speaker 1>not to be confused with OxyContin, which is in opiate.

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<v Speaker 1>But oxytocin can promote bonding and feelings of comfort and

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<v Speaker 1>attachment with partners and members of a group, or with babies.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes, it does increase when you pet a dog,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why you probably would not follow around an

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<v Speaker 1>unfamiliar goose in a park and pick up its poo,

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<v Speaker 1>but you would for your dog and not think twice.

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<v Speaker 1>Now onto more neurotransmitters. We use acetylcholine a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a neurotransmitter that I studied because of its

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<v Speaker 2>relation to nicotine, which I'm sure we'll get to. And

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<v Speaker 2>acetyl colin is really important because it's like the fast

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<v Speaker 2>acting neurotransmitter, and the brains of a few need to

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<v Speaker 2>get a cell to respond right away. Acetyl colin might

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<v Speaker 2>be the way to go. And it's so fast acting

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<v Speaker 2>that it's used in the body as well to like

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<v Speaker 2>help with muscle contractions.

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<v Speaker 1>My god, is it like the text message of neurotransmitter,

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<v Speaker 1>get at me? Just send me a text?

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<v Speaker 2>Your phone is blowing off?

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<v Speaker 1>And so acetyl colin can that do more than just

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<v Speaker 1>make you happy or alert? Is? Does it? Can that

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<v Speaker 1>send all kinds of messages to you? Yeah? It can.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you think we talked about the brain being

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<v Speaker 2>groups of different types of cells, and each of those

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<v Speaker 2>cell groups probably has like different layers of cells as well,

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<v Speaker 2>So the complexity and the brain is really really difficult

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<v Speaker 2>I think to imagine each of those different functional groups

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<v Speaker 2>of cells or different parts of the brain have connections

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<v Speaker 2>to one, if not many many others, and they're all

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<v Speaker 2>talking to each other. That's why I kind of call

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<v Speaker 2>it the orchestra. They're all working together. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>think about each different system, like maybe the string system's

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<v Speaker 2>dopamine system, and the brass section would be your norapinephrin,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody sort of is talking to each other, but in

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<v Speaker 2>different languages. And it might be that imsel that releases acetylcholine,

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<v Speaker 2>but you don't have any receptors for that, so you

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<v Speaker 2>can't see my signal, but somebody else can.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you use that metaphor in your PhD defense? Because

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<v Speaker 1>I think it slaps you should have.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I don't the orchestra of the brain. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure it's not original. I think it's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to look it up and i'll tell you

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<v Speaker 1>if anyone else has used it. Okay, so other folks

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<v Speaker 1>have used this, and it turns out because it's a

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<v Speaker 1>really apt good analogy. Also, when it comes to working

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00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:49.200
<v Speaker 1>on brains, Crystal use data from rodent brains to try

420
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.440
<v Speaker 1>to extrapolate what was happening in human brains, including I

421
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:57.720
<v Speaker 1>guess her own. Did you ever have any existential crises

422
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.640
<v Speaker 1>when you were like, my brain is studying brains brains

423
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.839
<v Speaker 1>on brains on brains. Does that ever freak you out? No?

424
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.279
<v Speaker 2>I think there's the Carl Staian quote like we are

425
00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:09.279
<v Speaker 2>the way for the universe to know itself, and so

426
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's kind of how I feel how

427
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel as a neuroscientist.

428
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever think about certain reactions you have to

429
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.079
<v Speaker 1>life or certain like if you're having a down day

430
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.720
<v Speaker 1>or an update? Are you ever thinking about like your orchestra,

431
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:27.920
<v Speaker 1>like your like horn sections going off right? Absolutely? You doo? Yeah,

432
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.119
<v Speaker 1>of course does that help you at all when you're

433
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.839
<v Speaker 1>relating to other people thinking Okay, well this is not

434
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.599
<v Speaker 1>just this person's a jerk, or maybe this person isn't

435
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.720
<v Speaker 1>being sad for effect, Like do you think about them

436
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.319
<v Speaker 1>as like a concert of chemicals ever?

437
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think obviously I can. That's when I'm thinking,

438
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:50.440
<v Speaker 2>like rationally thinking and using that prefrontal cortex to try

439
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:54.279
<v Speaker 2>and compose a logical flow around why somebody.

440
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Is behaving the way that they are. But you know,

441
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:57.240
<v Speaker 1>in an.

442
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Everyday life, it's usually more a motion driven, reactivity driven.

443
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:05.440
<v Speaker 2>That's how our brains evolved, is to react to external stimuli,

444
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.880
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily to think and problem solve about them as

445
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.720
<v Speaker 2>the first thing, right, because.

446
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:11.880
<v Speaker 1>You don't want to be like, is it a snake?

447
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure.

448
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:14.480
<v Speaker 2>If it's a snake, I'm going to keep walking towards

449
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>it until I'm absolutely sure. Ouch now I'm dying, right, Like,

450
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>that's not how brains. Our brains work. So I think

451
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>when I can take a step back and think rationally

452
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.440
<v Speaker 2>about like why is this person yelling at me?

453
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 1>It is helpful. But that's you know, I'm human just

454
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:35.680
<v Speaker 1>like everybody else. And that prefrontal cortex that's right behind

455
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:39.359
<v Speaker 1>our forehead, and that's the kind of meteor chunk that's

456
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 1>evolved more recently.

457
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's I think that's what we'd like to think

458
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:47.319
<v Speaker 2>of as one of the differentiating parts of you know,

459
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.799
<v Speaker 2>human brains versus other animal brains. And I want to

460
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:53.559
<v Speaker 2>make a comment about animal brains in a second, But

461
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>it's our ability to extrapolate, to use logic and reasoning

462
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>to come up with creative solutions to problems, to not

463
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 2>just react, and to think about downstream effects. That's what

464
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 2>the prefrontal cortex helps us do. But what I was

465
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.400
<v Speaker 2>going to say, which is one of those myth busting things. Yeah,

466
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to talk to Ali about neuroscience. What do

467
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.359
<v Speaker 2>I want people to know about neuroscience? Okay?

468
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 1>The pop culture reference to the lizard brain, yes, yes, okay, okay, Okay,

469
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.119
<v Speaker 1>let's let's debunk this. Flim flam really bothers me. Okay.

470
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 2>I was going to ask about it because it's often

471
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:33.519
<v Speaker 2>one used incorrectly.

472
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

473
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:36.960
<v Speaker 2>It's usually when when people say, don't listen to your

474
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.119
<v Speaker 2>lizard brain, it's just lizard brain. I think what they

475
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.559
<v Speaker 2>mean is, don't listen to your limbic system, okay, or

476
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.839
<v Speaker 2>your mid brain or the center of your brain in

477
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:55.440
<v Speaker 2>which like emotions are generated and relevant. But I think

478
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.079
<v Speaker 2>when that quote, and I am blaming Sagan again for this,

479
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.680
<v Speaker 2>when the same quote of there's an alligator brain around

480
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.079
<v Speaker 2>which everything else is wrapped was put out there, he

481
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.599
<v Speaker 2>meant something even more basal, like your brain stem and

482
00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:14.640
<v Speaker 2>the parts of the brain that control respiration and heartbeat

483
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 2>and those type of really really basic biological functions. But

484
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.799
<v Speaker 2>the fact of the matter is is that lizards and

485
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 2>reptiles actually have something similar to a cortex.

486
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:26.720
<v Speaker 1>They do, yeah, they do.

487
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 2>It's nothing like the giant, you know, white matter that

488
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>we have. It's nothing like the big, you know, prefrontal

489
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.400
<v Speaker 2>cortex that you would see in primates, but it's something

490
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.480
<v Speaker 2>that evolves similarly and when they evolved, I mean in

491
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 2>gestational period and you see like very similar wiring there.

492
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:51.640
<v Speaker 2>So poor lizards, they're really getting a bad map. Also,

493
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.000
<v Speaker 2>are alligators even lizards? Back in the rology episode, I

494
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>asked lizard expert Aaron McGee about.

495
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 1>It, stupidest question, alligators are lizards? No? No, thank you

496
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:04.759
<v Speaker 1>for telling me that. I just realized. I was like,

497
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:06.559
<v Speaker 1>how big does a lizard get? Is an alley? Why

498
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:12.920
<v Speaker 1>isn't an alligator a lizard? I'm sorry, it is so

499
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:16.039
<v Speaker 1>so much horsepucky flim flam debunked all at once. So

500
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned white matter and gray matter. What is the difference?

501
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.240
<v Speaker 2>So white matter is all is basically the wiring, Okay,

502
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.759
<v Speaker 2>So when you would you would say, like, there's a

503
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:32.440
<v Speaker 2>pathway between two brain regions and that's the white matter,

504
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.720
<v Speaker 2>it's the connections, and gray matter is like more the

505
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 2>cell bodies and the guyer, the guier stuff, okay, is.

506
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:43.160
<v Speaker 1>On it kind of is there like an apple skin

507
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:44.000
<v Speaker 1>on a brain.

508
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Not the way that you are describing it, But we

509
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:51.640
<v Speaker 2>do have a barrier between the brain and the blood

510
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.359
<v Speaker 2>system that provides the glucose and the other nutrients to

511
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.519
<v Speaker 2>the brain, and that's the blood brain barrier is critically

512
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.720
<v Speaker 2>important to protecting the brain from all the things that

513
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:03.839
<v Speaker 2>we're exposed to.

514
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Can more things leak through that blood brain barrier than

515
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:08.839
<v Speaker 1>we realize? Are we finding that out?

516
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Probably we used to think that it was impenetrable, and

517
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.279
<v Speaker 2>now we know that there's evidence of a lot more

518
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of transmission through that barrier than we think.

519
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.319
<v Speaker 1>But it really does protect us.

520
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, think about like all of the pharmacologicals that

521
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:25.960
<v Speaker 2>you've ever taken in your life, and some of them

522
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.640
<v Speaker 2>can slip through, and that's good because we need them

523
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.839
<v Speaker 2>to regulate our behavior. And some of them are kept

524
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>out by that barrier, which is great because they could

525
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 2>be potentially toxic.

526
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, getting back to neurotransfers. Oh no, I wanted

527
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:43.839
<v Speaker 1>to ask if you'd ever touched a brain before, so

528
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I had to get us off course. I have touched

529
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.039
<v Speaker 1>what do you make brain?

530
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.279
<v Speaker 2>It's very delicate, like you don't want to make a

531
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of relief fast food, and they're preserved brains. I

532
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>haven't touched a brain of a person, which some neurosurgeons have.

533
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I cannot speak to what it's like to touch you

534
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.079
<v Speaker 2>a live brain, but one that's been preserved and formaldehyde.

535
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Speaker 1>It's very delicate.

536
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>It is as gooey as you think you when you're

537
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:13.279
<v Speaker 2>holding it, if you're anything like me, just there's an

538
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:17.960
<v Speaker 2>oppressive sense of responsibility that happens when you're thinking about

539
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.519
<v Speaker 2>the life that that brain was really responsible for guiding.

540
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't hold it for very long.

541
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I like held it and I kind of like felt

542
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.720
<v Speaker 2>the profound nature of what I was doing, and then

543
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:31.839
<v Speaker 2>and then I gave it back to the technician.

544
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 1>What was the setting here? What was a setting? Yeah?

545
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, this was an undergrad at a science fair. Whoa

546
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.559
<v Speaker 2>And that was just one of the really cool exhibits,

547
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.799
<v Speaker 2>Like there were mouse brains and a human brain, and

548
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, like other brains that you could just kind

549
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.079
<v Speaker 2>of like touch and play with.

550
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't it be crazy if you don'tated your brain to

551
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.799
<v Speaker 1>science And they're like, you're just gonna go to science fairs,

552
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.799
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna recruit some people. You'd be like, what gay, sweet,

553
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.799
<v Speaker 1>shake some hands, kiss some babies, not shake some babies.

554
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:07.799
<v Speaker 1>We answer I will send that background. Okay, So neurotransmitters, serotonin, dopamine.

555
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Stupid question, but what do they do do they have

556
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.559
<v Speaker 1>different roles in terms of our emotions, They have very

557
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:14.880
<v Speaker 1>very different roles.

558
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay, dopamine I'm going to start with because this is

559
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>everybody loves a good dopamine story. I love, and without dopamine,

560
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>we really wouldn't be motivated to do anything. So it's

561
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 2>really interesting in computer science when they talk about computers

562
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:34.799
<v Speaker 2>having rewards so that you can teach it, like artificial

563
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.799
<v Speaker 2>intelligence system that you're on the right track, keep going.

564
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 2>We have similar rewards. You're on the right track, keep going.

565
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:47.599
<v Speaker 2>And dopamine is how our brains have been evolved to

566
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:52.000
<v Speaker 2>receive this reward. So it makes us feel happy, but

567
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.200
<v Speaker 2>not really happy, more just like pleasure, like things are

568
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 2>good and anything that you would do that would keep

569
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:04.960
<v Speaker 2>you alive illicits dopamine response really, so eating, drinking, sleeping,

570
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:09.319
<v Speaker 2>hang out with your friends, anything that you might enjoy,

571
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:12.759
<v Speaker 2>you get a little bit of a dopamine hit. So

572
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.359
<v Speaker 2>it's basically to keep us doing things that are going

573
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>to keep the human race alive.

574
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

575
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Basically, whereas serotonin is more nuanced. It's not just pleasure,

576
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:28.839
<v Speaker 2>but it's mood and it's sleep, and it's really helping

577
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.359
<v Speaker 2>to modulate the way that those little dopamine hits are

578
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:37.160
<v Speaker 2>interpreted by the larger orchestra, if that makes sense.

579
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And what happens when they get off? Is there

580
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.039
<v Speaker 1>not enough to send a signal to the next neuron?

581
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Is there too much? And why does it seem like

582
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 1>a very slim percentage of people have a good balance

583
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I like, or maybe it's just living in LA or

584
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Internet culture, but I feel like everyone's like, oh yeah,

585
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:01.559
<v Speaker 1>mirror transmitters are whack.

586
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm no minor, so I mean unfortunately, I want I

587
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted to respond to you philosophically, Like, when we first

588
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:17.000
<v Speaker 2>sequenced the human genome, the lead researcher on that project

589
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.480
<v Speaker 2>was the genome that they chose to sequence. Does that

590
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:24.039
<v Speaker 2>mean that he's the most normal genome and every other

591
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.599
<v Speaker 2>genome is going to be compared to his? Maybe it

592
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>was an arbitrary center for science to pick yea right.

593
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so quick aside. There was the publicly funded human

594
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:39.079
<v Speaker 1>Genome project, and the first public genome came mostly from

595
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.640
<v Speaker 1>a single anonymous male donor. I think this would be

596
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:46.319
<v Speaker 1>a sperm donor from Buffalo, New York. But then aside

597
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 1>privately funded genome research project was launched by geneticist J.

598
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Craig Ventner, who later admitted that his DNA was among

599
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the first donor pool to be fully sequenced. Tossing his

600
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.839
<v Speaker 1>own genetics into a research project was later addressed in

601
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:06.119
<v Speaker 1>the journal Science in an article bearing the headline not

602
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.480
<v Speaker 1>wicked perhaps, but tacky. And so when we say off,

603
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:13.960
<v Speaker 1>what is off right? Really right? Right?

604
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.839
<v Speaker 2>So in mental health profession, it's if you have a

605
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:21.920
<v Speaker 2>difference that's interfering with your ability to perform tasks in

606
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.759
<v Speaker 2>your personal or professional life, like your ability to be

607
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.400
<v Speaker 2>a part of society, then it's a difference that needs

608
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.119
<v Speaker 2>to be treated as abnormal.

609
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Right.

610
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:34.799
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if we can say that they're

611
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:38.640
<v Speaker 2>necessarily off for us as an individual, but they're definitely

612
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.839
<v Speaker 2>off for us as a group of humans that all

613
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 2>need to act together. Does that make sense? Yeah, Yeah,

614
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:47.519
<v Speaker 2>there's definitely differences. And those differences can come from genetics,

615
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.119
<v Speaker 2>it can come from environment. It can come from adaptations

616
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:56.400
<v Speaker 2>to trauma or differences in our early environment as our

617
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.359
<v Speaker 2>brains were still developing. There's so many different ways that

618
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:03.200
<v Speaker 2>we can develop differences in the way that our neurotransmitter

619
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.599
<v Speaker 2>systems function.

620
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And what happens if we have too much dopamine.

621
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:11.119
<v Speaker 2>It seems like the more the merrier it is, the

622
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:13.360
<v Speaker 2>more the merrier, but it's also the way that it

623
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.679
<v Speaker 2>is dispensed. I guess, like you described it in the

624
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:21.639
<v Speaker 2>Addictionology episode as this like sprinkler system, right, and it's

625
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:25.199
<v Speaker 2>the intermittent release of dopamine that keeps us going.

626
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Right.

627
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:28.559
<v Speaker 2>If you have too much dopamine, then you're probably not

628
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:32.400
<v Speaker 2>motivated to do anything because you've got everything that you need.

629
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.639
<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of like what do you gift to

630
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the person that has everything right? Your system is cool,

631
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:42.920
<v Speaker 2>so there's no reason to do anything. In early experiments

632
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:46.960
<v Speaker 2>around the dopamine ergic system, they allowed rodents to just

633
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.320
<v Speaker 2>self administer stimulation to their dopamine like whenever they wanted.

634
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 2>So this is like basically a too much dopamine situation

635
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>because domain makes you feel good, so you're just going

636
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.239
<v Speaker 2>to keep saying yes, please, yes, please, yes please, yes please,

637
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:06.559
<v Speaker 2>and it basically interrupted all functions except for sleep, So

638
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:07.840
<v Speaker 2>they just didn't do anything.

639
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.039
<v Speaker 1>But like people have.

640
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Probably experienced this before, like you're in a really good

641
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.559
<v Speaker 2>early stage of your relationship.

642
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:18.280
<v Speaker 1>You don't eat, You like your sleep's kind of disrupted.

643
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.519
<v Speaker 2>All you want to do is like read your text

644
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.199
<v Speaker 2>messages over and over and over again, or check your

645
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:25.880
<v Speaker 2>phone to see if you've got another one. Your normal

646
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.440
<v Speaker 2>function is disrupted because you've got dopeamine floating around in

647
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.679
<v Speaker 2>there at levels that you're totally not used to, and

648
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:36.519
<v Speaker 2>there's probably some moxytocin in there as well, like really

649
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 2>fucking things.

650
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Wait, so then at what point does

651
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:44.000
<v Speaker 1>that decline? Is that like the two year period of

652
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:45.000
<v Speaker 1>like I'm over this?

653
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we get we get used to it, yeah, right,

654
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and then we can sort of like mellow out and

655
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.480
<v Speaker 2>become more normal.

656
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.880
<v Speaker 1>The rats, some of them died.

657
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Because they didn't They didn't eat or really do anything

658
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:02.519
<v Speaker 2>because they were just super happy pressing that lever for

659
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>their dopamine hit.

660
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 1>So don't do that, just pathologically fulfilled? No, okay. Side note.

661
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:13.039
<v Speaker 1>I read one article that estimated four years was when

662
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.199
<v Speaker 1>dopamine starts to wane. But I really should ask a

663
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.760
<v Speaker 1>psycho neuroendocrinologist or perhaps a biological anthropologist about it. But

664
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.159
<v Speaker 1>if things are starting to feel a little stale with

665
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.360
<v Speaker 1>a partner. Some researchers think that doing scary or novel

666
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:32.119
<v Speaker 1>things together like I don't know, ziplining or going to

667
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:36.760
<v Speaker 1>haunted houses or Costco on a Saturday, those things can

668
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.239
<v Speaker 1>get those new romance brain juices squirting again. Okay, what

669
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:42.840
<v Speaker 1>happens if you don't have enough dopamine?

670
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.679
<v Speaker 2>If you don't have enough dopamine, it depends on what

671
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.800
<v Speaker 2>parts of your system are disrupted. But most of the

672
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.039
<v Speaker 2>classical symptoms that we see for like ADHD or depression

673
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:01.079
<v Speaker 2>or you know, even anxiety and in some cases usually

674
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:03.280
<v Speaker 2>have to do a disruption of the dopemeansys. That's why

675
00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:06.760
<v Speaker 2>it gets all the media attention. The classic depression is

676
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:11.159
<v Speaker 2>lower levels of dopamine, which means that like you're just

677
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.960
<v Speaker 2>not having the same response that someone that doesn't have depression,

678
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.800
<v Speaker 2>like your to your dog or to you know, normal

679
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.360
<v Speaker 2>things in your life that would normally make you happy.

680
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:26.360
<v Speaker 2>You're tired, you're lethargic, there's a lack of motivation, and

681
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 2>you just aren't getting pleasure from the task as you

682
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.000
<v Speaker 2>normally would. And so it's like that grayness, that lack

683
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.719
<v Speaker 2>of color. Everything sort of seems blah, that would be

684
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.280
<v Speaker 2>what it would be like to not have enough dopamine

685
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:40.880
<v Speaker 2>in your system.

686
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:45.880
<v Speaker 1>And is that because the dopamine isn't being produced at

687
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 1>high enough levels or it's just like not making the

688
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:49.480
<v Speaker 1>jump between the neurons.

689
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.559
<v Speaker 2>That's something that is sort of on an individual basis,

690
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 2>but I would say overall, it's probably your system isn't

691
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:02.320
<v Speaker 2>able to produce enough dopamine. So there's all these little

692
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.599
<v Speaker 2>like packages of the dopamine chemicals that are sitting at

693
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the terminals, like near the synapse, like just ready for

694
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 2>the signal like release us.

695
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.880
<v Speaker 1>We're ready to go.

696
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And someone that has lower numbers of those little vesicles,

697
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>those little dopamine packets, like even if the cell was

698
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 2>like okay, go release all the dopamine that you have

699
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 2>is going to be a lower level, less packages of

700
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.480
<v Speaker 2>dopamine released than like what we would consider to be

701
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:30.440
<v Speaker 2>a normal So.

702
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:37.079
<v Speaker 1>And then what about serotonin? Then if does serotonin play

703
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 1>a big part in depression and anxiety and ADHD as

704
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:43.320
<v Speaker 1>well and all of the other things that all of us.

705
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Have the problem with the orchestra is that you can't

706
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:54.159
<v Speaker 2>just remove one section right like they they all work together.

707
00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:58.440
<v Speaker 2>So yes, they're definitely serotonin is definitely implicated and pretty

708
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.920
<v Speaker 2>much like and our benefrin is imprecated in pretty much everything.

709
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.280
<v Speaker 2>But it's just a matter of like what is the

710
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:09.679
<v Speaker 2>major contribution, right, So serotonin and depression, we're used to

711
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:15.440
<v Speaker 2>thinking about SSR rise, which are selective serotonin uptake inhibitors,

712
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:20.000
<v Speaker 2>which that's the medication that we are giving to people

713
00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:24.559
<v Speaker 2>with depression. And why is that We want more serotonin

714
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.760
<v Speaker 2>to be floating around in that synapse, in that space

715
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:31.280
<v Speaker 2>between the two cells. We wanted to be sitting around longer,

716
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:35.320
<v Speaker 2>so that signal to continue elevating your mood is a

717
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.679
<v Speaker 2>bigger signal. So there's usually these little like pacmans that

718
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:41.719
<v Speaker 2>live in that space between the two cells that collect

719
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:44.679
<v Speaker 2>all of the leftover molecules and bring them back into

720
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.239
<v Speaker 2>the cell, like Okay, we don't need you anymore, so

721
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.320
<v Speaker 2>you're going to come and live back in the cell again.

722
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:51.679
<v Speaker 1>And if we inhibit.

723
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Those little like pac man collectors, then you get more

724
00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:00.320
<v Speaker 2>chemical in that synapse, and that raises the probability that

725
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the next cell is going to have a prolonged signal

726
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:04.639
<v Speaker 2>from that neurotransmitter.

727
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so by cock blocking the neurotransmitter gobblers, there will

728
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.559
<v Speaker 1>be more in the spaces between the neurons to deliver messages.

729
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Kind of like if you canceled a neurotransmitter's lift and

730
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.000
<v Speaker 1>you just kept them at the party longer. You're like, sorry,

731
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I what can I say? We love avenue around, You're

732
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.480
<v Speaker 1>great at conversation, we love the signals. You said, this

733
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.840
<v Speaker 1>is a question that I have had for years. But

734
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've read somewhere that neuroscientists don't really

735
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:36.239
<v Speaker 1>know how antidepressants work yet. Now is that true?

736
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.920
<v Speaker 2>There's look, there's so many medications and like, I'm sorry,

737
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Big Pharma, there's so many medications that we don't actually

738
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.320
<v Speaker 2>understand the molecular mechanism for. But if it works and

739
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.559
<v Speaker 2>there's the side effects aren't too bad, We're just like,

740
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.440
<v Speaker 2>just put it out there and it'll help people.

741
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Okay, So we don't totally know how

742
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>SSRIs work. We just know that a certain percent of

743
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.599
<v Speaker 1>people when they take them are like feeling better.

744
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.440
<v Speaker 2>We know exactly how they work, we don't know why

745
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:13.679
<v Speaker 2>they work. Like, we don't know why keeping the serotonin

746
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:18.800
<v Speaker 2>or the noropenephrin or the dopeamin around in the synapse

747
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and increasing the signal leads to the behavioral changes.

748
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:25.519
<v Speaker 1>Because the level of cox, we can.

749
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Ask those molecular questions, like, that's the level I like

750
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.079
<v Speaker 2>to look at, because it's a lot more concrete. We

751
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.039
<v Speaker 2>can get answers there. But the multiple layers of complexity

752
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.960
<v Speaker 2>from like, well, which cells are getting the attenuated signal?

753
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:39.840
<v Speaker 2>And what brain regions are those cells in? Oh, but

754
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.920
<v Speaker 2>it's this brain region. But it's only those brain layers

755
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:47.760
<v Speaker 2>of that brain region. And what are those particular active

756
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:52.880
<v Speaker 2>regions doing when they're working in concert? And how does

757
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 2>that map to the genetic background of this individual and

758
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the external stimulus? And why does that mean the giving

759
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.519
<v Speaker 2>this SSRI four weeks later, this person is willing to

760
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:04.320
<v Speaker 2>get off their couch.

761
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 1>We don't know. Yeah. I always wondered about the lag

762
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 1>time there, because that is the toughest. And I know

763
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.559
<v Speaker 1>that this is like a psychopharmacology question, but that is

764
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.559
<v Speaker 1>the toughest. If it's like, hey, you're depressed, take this thing, man,

765
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.199
<v Speaker 1>six weeks, there's a twenty percent chance you might feel better.

766
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Speaker 1>You're like, you could have a lot of faith and

767
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:23.559
<v Speaker 1>lucky for me, like you know, well not lucky for me.

768
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:26.199
<v Speaker 1>But I tried a few different medications for anxiety and

769
00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:28.679
<v Speaker 1>depression before I found one that worked. I've mentioned this

770
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.679
<v Speaker 1>in another episode, but I tried a genetic test to

771
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:36.039
<v Speaker 1>see which anti anxiety or antidepressants would work better for me,

772
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.840
<v Speaker 1>and I ended up going with something that was recommended.

773
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.840
<v Speaker 1>It was an SNRI, but you should do your own research.

774
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:43.960
<v Speaker 1>I did a ton of reading, and I decided I

775
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't have much to lose, and I tried a company

776
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:48.800
<v Speaker 1>called gene Site, which has a sliding scale. It's super affordable.

777
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:51.079
<v Speaker 1>They are not a sponsor, but it helped me out,

778
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>but your mileage definitely may bury. Anyway, let's move on

779
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:58.199
<v Speaker 1>to Crystal's research on nicotine addiction and what did you

780
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:03.000
<v Speaker 1>learn about how addiction work works having studied the mechanisms

781
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:04.159
<v Speaker 1>behind it nicotine?

782
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so for nicotine, it's it's super crazy, like you're

783
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.840
<v Speaker 2>actually when you're exposing yourself to nicotine, you're actually changing

784
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:15.079
<v Speaker 2>the way that proteins in your brain are expressing. So

785
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.039
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh cool, I really like this. I would

786
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.280
<v Speaker 2>like it again, I would like it in a specific way.

787
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to change the way that I'm making

788
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.559
<v Speaker 2>the proteins in my cells so that they are better

789
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.599
<v Speaker 2>able to bind and respond to this drug that I

790
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.920
<v Speaker 2>have now been exposed to and no exists in the world.

791
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.639
<v Speaker 1>And so what does nicotine does? Does it wedge itself

792
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.000
<v Speaker 1>where a different neurotransmitter should be.

793
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so nicotine looks a lot like acetyl colline. Okay,

794
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:49.320
<v Speaker 2>So the receptors that bind nicotine also bind acetyl coline. Okay,

795
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.199
<v Speaker 2>they are called nicotinic acetyl coleine receptors. Of course, I

796
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.840
<v Speaker 2>like dominated my life for five years. But what looks

797
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:02.159
<v Speaker 2>similar to a protein might not actually look similar to us.

798
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:06.880
<v Speaker 1>So acetylcholine is the one that's responsible for those muscular contractions.

799
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.519
<v Speaker 1>It's super fast acting. Scientists also think it may affect

800
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.039
<v Speaker 1>memory and attention. And Crystal produced from her purse two

801
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:18.719
<v Speaker 1>molecular models as one does. So she showed me that

802
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.800
<v Speaker 1>nicotine is a double ringed molecule with two nitrogens and

803
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:27.440
<v Speaker 1>acetylcholine has one nitrogen that's crowded with methyl groups, which

804
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 1>are three hydrogens bonded to a carbon. But in a nutshell,

805
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:34.880
<v Speaker 1>crystal describes both molecules is having similar friends a carbon

806
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 1>atoms that give them kind of an analogous bulk when

807
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>it comes to fitting into the same receptors, so.

808
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 2>They look similar enough to the receptor that it responds

809
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:45.239
<v Speaker 2>in the same way.

810
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Got it. So it's like when you're doing a puzzle

811
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:48.719
<v Speaker 1>and you find a piece that doesn't quite fit, but

812
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:50.199
<v Speaker 1>you can jam it in and then it fucks everything

813
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:51.760
<v Speaker 1>else up pretty much exactly.

814
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.559
<v Speaker 2>It's exactly like that that I should have just said that.

815
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.480
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly, That's exactly what's happening. And so how do

816
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.800
<v Speaker 1>some people who might be say, predisposed to that kind

817
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.000
<v Speaker 1>of addiction, how do they have a better chance at

818
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.199
<v Speaker 1>at beating it if they want to, If they're like,

819
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm done with you vaping, I'm done with you like cigarettes,

820
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Like what do they do well?

821
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Beating addiction is really challenging because you have like a

822
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.719
<v Speaker 2>learning and memory component, and then you have a chemical

823
00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:22.840
<v Speaker 2>dependence component, especially for smoking, because you'll be like, oh,

824
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm done, I don't smoke anymore. I am successful, and

825
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.079
<v Speaker 2>then you'll have one drink too many and suddenly you've

826
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>got a cigarette in your hand and you're not exactly

827
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.280
<v Speaker 2>sure why, and there's a chemical reason for that. But

828
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:38.320
<v Speaker 2>there's also a learning and memory component, Like you definitely

829
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.199
<v Speaker 2>beat your addiction to smoking at work and at home.

830
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.800
<v Speaker 2>You did not beat the addiction to smoking at the club.

831
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:46.960
<v Speaker 1>In the club, we are all family.

832
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Because you've learned that you have three drinks, then you

833
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 2>go outside and you have a smoke. Yeah, so it's

834
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.320
<v Speaker 2>those behaviors that can really hang up recovery. Nicotine is

835
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:02.800
<v Speaker 2>actually one of the most substances. So I was listening

836
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:07.639
<v Speaker 2>to the addictionology episode that you did, and yeah, there's

837
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of really really terrible withdrawal symptoms, Like withdrawing

838
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 2>from alcohol is potentially lethal, so you need to be careful.

839
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.320
<v Speaker 2>We've seen media depictions of withdrawal from heroin, for instance,

840
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.840
<v Speaker 2>which looks like it's the one where everyone's like, oh

841
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:23.840
<v Speaker 2>my god, I'm being attacked by bugs and my skin

842
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:25.559
<v Speaker 2>is itchy and I need to get my skin off.

843
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Like that's awful. You're not going to get that if

844
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.599
<v Speaker 2>you try and quit smoking. But once you go through

845
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:34.519
<v Speaker 2>those really really awful, terrible withdrawal periods, you have a

846
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.199
<v Speaker 2>really good chance of not doing those drugs again, whereas

847
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:41.519
<v Speaker 2>with nicotine, like it can come back really at any time.

848
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so what can one do? Is there any promise

849
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:50.280
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to like meditation and mindfulness and breathing exercise. Like,

850
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:54.440
<v Speaker 1>can you retrain your brain through healthier behaviors at all? Yeah,

851
00:46:54.440 --> 00:47:00.039
<v Speaker 1>you can definitely retrain your brain. You can also through meditation, mindfulness,

852
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:04.480
<v Speaker 1>and cognitive behavioral therapy reduce the reason that you are

853
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:09.360
<v Speaker 1>smoking at all. So we see smoking behaviors especially with

854
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:12.679
<v Speaker 1>an ad addicts. But yeah, like if.

855
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>People that are addicted to nicotine oftentimes are in response

856
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to other things. So schizophrenics have a very specific smoking behavior.

857
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:24.360
<v Speaker 2>We think they're trying to self medicate. Veterans come back

858
00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:26.559
<v Speaker 2>not even with PTSD, but just that have come back

859
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:31.800
<v Speaker 2>from really traumatic experiences. Possibly they're smoking in the characteristic

860
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:35.519
<v Speaker 2>way that they smoke to reduce activity in their amygdalah.

861
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:39.320
<v Speaker 1>So you may remember the magdala from the two part

862
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:42.440
<v Speaker 1>errology episode, and it is a little brain nugget that

863
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I like to think of as the screaming almond of terror.

864
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:52.760
<v Speaker 1>So some folks may self administer nicotine to appease their

865
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.920
<v Speaker 1>shrieking almond. Does it solve problems? No, not at all,

866
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:58.639
<v Speaker 1>It only makes life worse. Blame your almond and then

867
00:47:58.920 --> 00:47:59.880
<v Speaker 1>try to outsmart it.

868
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.280
<v Speaker 2>There's lots of different indications that could cause somebody to

869
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:08.000
<v Speaker 2>smoke heavily that would make quitting harder.

870
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.320
<v Speaker 1>Is that at all the same when it comes to

871
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:14.880
<v Speaker 1>anxiety or depression or ADHD. Are there any kind of

872
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:20.079
<v Speaker 1>situational triggers that might affect our levels of neurotransmitter. Yeah,

873
00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:20.920
<v Speaker 1>that's a problem.

874
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.119
<v Speaker 2>So we have that learning and memory, as I was

875
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:27.039
<v Speaker 2>saying component, So if we've learned something is dangerous to us,

876
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:30.159
<v Speaker 2>even if it's not, then our bodies are going to

877
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:31.840
<v Speaker 2>continue to respond to it that way and you have

878
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.599
<v Speaker 2>to retrain. No, that's not like some people are scared

879
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.880
<v Speaker 2>of dogs. Some people are scared of people right like

880
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:42.000
<v Speaker 2>you are snakes.

881
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.480
<v Speaker 1>My mom is terrified of snakes. And it is my

882
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.519
<v Speaker 1>brother in law, and he is like a six foot

883
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.880
<v Speaker 1>four heavy metal guitarist with hair down to his waist,

884
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 1>and he can't if he sees a snake on TV,

885
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:54.840
<v Speaker 1>he's like darted off. Yeap. My mom is exactly the

886
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:56.719
<v Speaker 1>same way. She gets like the chills because.

887
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:59.320
<v Speaker 2>And then she like runs out of she runs out

888
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.079
<v Speaker 2>of the room. And so if she decided that was

889
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.519
<v Speaker 2>something that she wanted to learn to not be afraid of,

890
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:10.840
<v Speaker 2>there are ways through like overexposure and other therapeutic methods

891
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 2>that I don't know anything about by no exist to

892
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.360
<v Speaker 2>rewire the brain. Probably that direct signal of snake fear

893
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:23.920
<v Speaker 2>is never going to really go away, but you might

894
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:29.920
<v Speaker 2>be able to add a layer regulation like snake checkpoint. Okay,

895
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:32.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to react in a different way instead of

896
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:35.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to react with my fear response.

897
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:38.400
<v Speaker 1>And will your neurons form new pathways? Will they kind

898
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:40.239
<v Speaker 1>of make new channels you.

899
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Are referring to neuroplasticity, Yes, you did. Yeah, you can

900
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:50.000
<v Speaker 2>definitely create new connections. We're doing that all the time.

901
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:51.760
<v Speaker 2>If we couldn't do that, we wouldn't be able to

902
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 2>learn anything new, and we wouldn't be able to teach

903
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:55.840
<v Speaker 2>babies all the things that they need to learn in

904
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:58.119
<v Speaker 2>order to be competent humans.

905
00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:59.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've got to assume that there's some of

906
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:00.519
<v Speaker 1>those out there.

907
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.360
<v Speaker 2>So yes, through using particular pathways, particular connections in the brain,

908
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you can make those connections stronger. You can recruit other

909
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.880
<v Speaker 2>connections to make that pathway larger. I like to think

910
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.639
<v Speaker 2>of it as like you start out with like a

911
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:18.480
<v Speaker 2>hiking trail that you were told was a trail and

912
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Google Maps doesn't really have it on there, and you

913
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:23.159
<v Speaker 2>have need a machete and you're kind of like hacking

914
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>through it.

915
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:24.840
<v Speaker 1>It's a jungle in here.

916
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.039
<v Speaker 2>But if you walk that trail many, many times, it

917
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:32.000
<v Speaker 2>eventually becomes much easier to use, and you can eventually

918
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:35.719
<v Speaker 2>become like a six lane super highway that's very very

919
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:36.920
<v Speaker 2>fast to go down.

920
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 1>And that's the preferred method because our brains are really lazy.

921
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:42.159
<v Speaker 2>They don't want to do new things, they don't want

922
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:44.719
<v Speaker 2>to think about anything. They just want to react because

923
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:47.119
<v Speaker 2>that's how we stay alive. And so if you can

924
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:50.239
<v Speaker 2>train your brain that taking the path that you want

925
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.920
<v Speaker 2>it to take is actually easiest and allows it to

926
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:56.360
<v Speaker 2>be the most lazy, then you can influence the path

927
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.000
<v Speaker 2>that it chooses to take without you cognitively having to

928
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:00.440
<v Speaker 2>control it all the time.

929
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:04.199
<v Speaker 1>So practice makes a habit kind of yes, yes, well,

930
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:06.559
<v Speaker 1>that's good to know. I have a gym membership that

931
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:11.519
<v Speaker 1>I have not used a month, and I'm like, okay,

932
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.039
<v Speaker 1>can I ask you questions for patrons? Yeah? Okay, Now,

933
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:17.199
<v Speaker 1>before we dive into the questions that you submitted on Patreon,

934
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:19.880
<v Speaker 1>a few words about sponsors who make it possible for

935
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:22.760
<v Speaker 1>ologies to donate to a different cause each week. Now,

936
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Crystal is once again an if then STEM ambassador for

937
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.440
<v Speaker 1>the Lena Hill Foundation, which works with a few non profits.

938
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 1>So that's already amazing, But she chose her donation to

939
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Speaker 1>go to the Gena Davis Institute on Gender and Media,

940
00:51:34.599 --> 00:51:38.199
<v Speaker 1>founded by Gena Davis, who has said, what our children

941
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:41.559
<v Speaker 1>see sets the framework for what they believe is possible.

942
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:44.840
<v Speaker 1>So the Gena Davis Institute on Gender and Media is

943
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the only research based organization working from within the entertainment

944
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:52.199
<v Speaker 1>industry to improve gender balance, to reduce stereotyping, and to

945
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:55.800
<v Speaker 1>create diverse female characters in entertainment and media for kids

946
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.039
<v Speaker 1>eleven and under. So thanks doctor Dilworth, a donation will

947
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:01.039
<v Speaker 1>go to them, and that is made possible by some

948
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:05.280
<v Speaker 1>sponsors of the show. What you may hear about now, okay,

949
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:11.079
<v Speaker 1>let's get to your molecular neurobiology questions. Shall we have questions?

950
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:15.320
<v Speaker 1>And also this definitely warrants like a psychopharmacology.

951
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:18.199
<v Speaker 2>Yes follow up because absolutely I think that given all

952
00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:22.199
<v Speaker 2>of the response to all the questions, you definitely need

953
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:25.760
<v Speaker 2>like a psychiatrist, yes on psychiatrist ologists.

954
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:29.519
<v Speaker 1>This podcast is not intended to diagnose or treat. Okay,

955
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:34.679
<v Speaker 1>a lot of folks had questions about this Jack, Jennifer Alvarez,

956
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Eli's Anna Thompson, Grace Lauren, Rachel Thompson, panic or painick

957
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:45.800
<v Speaker 1>either way, Donald McGregor, Pandora to Rebecca Lynn Weisselberg, Juliana

958
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:50.639
<v Speaker 1>arisl And, Penny Lee and Generic Nikki all asked about ADHD.

959
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Jack said, very very plainly, I have ADHD. What exactly

960
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:59.559
<v Speaker 1>is wrong with my neurotransmitters? And so, yeah, all those folks,

961
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:01.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about it too, because sometimes I'm like, do

962
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:03.679
<v Speaker 1>I have ADHD? Maybe I do, I don't know.

963
00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:07.440
<v Speaker 2>So. Classically, ADHD is described as a disruption of the

964
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:11.199
<v Speaker 2>dopamine system, but I think that there's a lot to

965
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 2>be said for the involvement of other neurotransmitters. We like

966
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:18.239
<v Speaker 2>to talk about serotonin, but I actually think that norapinephrine

967
00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:25.119
<v Speaker 2>is more relevant to ADHD specifically because noropinephrine is responsible

968
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:31.639
<v Speaker 2>for attention and alertness. So when your norropinephrine system is working,

969
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:36.599
<v Speaker 2>you are, you're awake and you're alert. When it's really activated,

970
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:38.440
<v Speaker 2>it's telling you there is something you need to pay

971
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:41.639
<v Speaker 2>attention to right now and be very awake and maybe run.

972
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:43.920
<v Speaker 1>You never know when you may have to jam. And so.

973
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.719
<v Speaker 2>The attention needed to perform and complete a task was

974
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:54.440
<v Speaker 2>associated with norapper nephrin sort of cycling. So there's a

975
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.320
<v Speaker 2>lot and then there's not so much, and then there's

976
00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot, and then there's not so much. It's like

977
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:02.199
<v Speaker 2>just enough to kind of keep you on task and motivated.

978
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:06.159
<v Speaker 2>And that motivation also comes from dopamine. But when it's tonic,

979
00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.159
<v Speaker 2>when it's just kind of like at an okay level

980
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:11.679
<v Speaker 2>and just kind of like plugging along, there's really no

981
00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:15.559
<v Speaker 2>reason for you to maintain attention because it's not telling

982
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.679
<v Speaker 2>you to do so, and so you're like, I want

983
00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:20.960
<v Speaker 2>to feel good about something. And then when you go

984
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.119
<v Speaker 2>looking in search of dopamine, because dopamine in ADHD people

985
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:28.159
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit lower, and so they're constantly looking

986
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:30.920
<v Speaker 2>for stimulus that's going to pop that up so they

987
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:31.599
<v Speaker 2>can feel good.

988
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:35.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Why do you think so many people have

989
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.880
<v Speaker 1>ADHD or are getting diagnosed with it? And I know

990
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:40.000
<v Speaker 1>so many people who are diagnosed later in life, Like where,

991
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:42.800
<v Speaker 1>why do you think it's so prevalent. I don't have

992
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:43.719
<v Speaker 1>a good answer for that.

993
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of discussions people have about our

994
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:50.840
<v Speaker 2>technology training us to have ADHD, about the fact that

995
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.800
<v Speaker 2>we have declared a thing kind of promoting the diagnoses

996
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.679
<v Speaker 2>of it, and you know, not being able to compare

997
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:00.599
<v Speaker 2>it to twenty years ago to know if it really

998
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:04.119
<v Speaker 2>is increasing in prevalence because we've just started diagnosing it.

999
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.599
<v Speaker 2>This is an argument. This used for a lot of things.

1000
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:11.199
<v Speaker 2>So I don't really have a good answer for you,

1001
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:13.480
<v Speaker 2>but I think that it might be that we're just

1002
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:18.119
<v Speaker 2>becoming aware of our differences and ADHD is a way

1003
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:21.840
<v Speaker 2>for us to label those differences. Sometimes that's a good thing,

1004
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.639
<v Speaker 2>but it isn't always. I know that there's a lot

1005
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:29.920
<v Speaker 2>of really smart, really really energetic and curious kids that

1006
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.880
<v Speaker 2>get diagnosed with ADHD, and it might just be because

1007
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:36.920
<v Speaker 2>we have a hard time handling that level of energy

1008
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and curiosity.

1009
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, quick aside. I looked this up and adult ADHD

1010
00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:45.719
<v Speaker 1>diagnoses rose one hundred and twenty three percent between two

1011
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.400
<v Speaker 1>thousand and seven and twenty sixteen, and the prevalence of

1012
00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:51.639
<v Speaker 1>ADHD and kids went up twenty six percent. So many

1013
00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:55.559
<v Speaker 1>researchers think it's just awareness of symptoms that's driving more

1014
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:58.239
<v Speaker 1>people to get evaluated for it. And I know so

1015
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:02.280
<v Speaker 1>many folks with ADHD, some diagnosed in adulthood, that just

1016
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.639
<v Speaker 1>wish they knew sooner. I was just want to tell

1017
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:08.199
<v Speaker 1>you that in the process of writing this aside, Jarrett

1018
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:11.599
<v Speaker 1>was typing really loudly on his keyboard and I got distracted,

1019
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:13.920
<v Speaker 1>so I went and got the headphones that I'd lost

1020
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:15.719
<v Speaker 1>for about six months but just found. And then in

1021
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:17.639
<v Speaker 1>the process it wanted into the kitchen to make a

1022
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Macha latte and then I sat back down, but I

1023
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:21.880
<v Speaker 1>got an email and so I ended up checking my

1024
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:24.880
<v Speaker 1>credit score for a while. Anyway, Okay, yes, ADHD awareness,

1025
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:28.199
<v Speaker 1>it's up. More people might have it than they realize.

1026
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:31.480
<v Speaker 1>And then what about treatment of ADHD? I know, like

1027
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.079
<v Speaker 1>emphetamine salts are sometimes prescribed. What is that doing to

1028
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:38.159
<v Speaker 1>the dopamine or what is that What does that helping

1029
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:38.719
<v Speaker 1>level out?

1030
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:43.239
<v Speaker 2>So when I learned about this, which was a while ago,

1031
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:46.760
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about the use of amphetamines in the

1032
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:52.039
<v Speaker 2>concept of Homeostacey's. So our entire system is designed to

1033
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:56.239
<v Speaker 2>keep us in a certain region of activity and alertness

1034
00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and awakness. We want to maintain that Homeostacey's because when

1035
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 2>we get thrown out of it, we get disease and

1036
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like terrible things. And so when you

1037
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:08.280
<v Speaker 2>take an ADHD brain and you give it mphetamine, You're

1038
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:10.679
<v Speaker 2>releasing a lot of nourop and ephrine, you're releasing a

1039
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:13.239
<v Speaker 2>lot of adrenaline, you're releasing a lot of dope meine,

1040
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:15.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's like throwing you way up. So in a way,

1041
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.960
<v Speaker 2>it's compensating for the things that you might not have

1042
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.920
<v Speaker 2>enough of, but it's also telling your body, hey, as

1043
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.159
<v Speaker 2>a complete system, you've got to pay attention to what's

1044
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:27.280
<v Speaker 2>happening here because something has gone crazy and it's forcing

1045
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:31.440
<v Speaker 2>your system to level you out. So if you don't

1046
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.719
<v Speaker 2>have those discrepancies though the lower level of dope meine,

1047
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:39.559
<v Speaker 2>then you take an mphetamine, then you've completely you've thrown

1048
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:43.039
<v Speaker 2>your entire system into like a whole other solar system,

1049
00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:45.840
<v Speaker 2>which is for some people good.

1050
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.719
<v Speaker 1>That's why we love cocaine.

1051
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Because we love a lot of dopamine and we want

1052
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.360
<v Speaker 2>that to hang around for a while, but usually ends

1053
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:54.559
<v Speaker 2>up in really really bad results.

1054
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Right, But if you are already low on the dopamine,

1055
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:01.199
<v Speaker 1>then it just levels you off to where maybe a

1056
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 1>neurotypical person might be, Oh, that's fascinating. So the first

1057
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.960
<v Speaker 1>line of therapy for ADHD is usually medication. Why is that, well,

1058
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.639
<v Speaker 1>it works in up to eighty percent of folks suffering

1059
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:16.239
<v Speaker 1>with ADHD if the dosage is right. But the best strategy,

1060
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:21.679
<v Speaker 1>doctors say is combining strategies, so exercise. Some supplements like

1061
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:25.039
<v Speaker 1>fish oil and magnesium have been shown in some studies

1062
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:28.079
<v Speaker 1>to improve symptoms, and being around nature every day can

1063
00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:30.480
<v Speaker 1>also be effective. Either way, there is no shame in

1064
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:33.960
<v Speaker 1>the ADHD game super common and there are treatments out there,

1065
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.119
<v Speaker 1>and yes, I want to do a whole episode on

1066
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:39.920
<v Speaker 1>this now. Besides, everyone wakes up and pours themselves a

1067
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:42.199
<v Speaker 1>piping hot cup of stimulants anyway.

1068
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, But one of the interesting things about Homeostacey's is

1069
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:48.159
<v Speaker 2>that it doesn't have to be like it's something that

1070
00:58:48.199 --> 00:58:50.920
<v Speaker 2>our body does naturally, and it doesn't necessarily have to

1071
00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:55.880
<v Speaker 2>be drug related. Although like the there's a really great

1072
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.719
<v Speaker 2>story about homeostaces and coffee. So if you go through

1073
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:03.639
<v Speaker 2>this same morning routine, when you wake up and you

1074
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:05.239
<v Speaker 2>go down, you're about to de press the button on

1075
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.880
<v Speaker 2>your coffee maker, like maybe the sound of the coffee

1076
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.840
<v Speaker 2>maker and the sound of the coffee going into the

1077
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:12.480
<v Speaker 2>pot or the cup, your body knows I'm about to

1078
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:17.119
<v Speaker 2>get some caffeine. So we'll depress its system in anticipation

1079
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of the stimulation from caffeine. So that's why like replacing

1080
00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:25.079
<v Speaker 2>your coffee with DCAF is like a really terrible trick

1081
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:30.320
<v Speaker 2>to play on people, because you'll actually get more depressed

1082
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:33.920
<v Speaker 2>than you would otherwise because your body has depressed a

1083
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.760
<v Speaker 2>system waiting for the stimulant and then it has not

1084
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:42.000
<v Speaker 2>gotten it. Fuck yeah, that sucks, So be really careful

1085
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:43.400
<v Speaker 2>with your routine.

1086
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I still say we use the routine

1087
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:50.679
<v Speaker 1>we have. Caffeine binds to the thing that makes you sleepy.

1088
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.920
<v Speaker 1>It takes the place.

1089
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:57.360
<v Speaker 2>So caffeine interacts with adenizine receptors, and dinnersine receptors are

1090
00:59:57.599 --> 00:59:59.880
<v Speaker 2>just kind of like open and waiting for the dynzine

1091
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to come. And it comes and it binds them, and

1092
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:06.199
<v Speaker 2>if enough adentizine blinds enough of the receptors and it's

1093
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:09.239
<v Speaker 2>like okay, we're sleepy, now we're going to.

1094
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:09.559
<v Speaker 1>Go to bed.

1095
01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:12.320
<v Speaker 2>But the caffeine comes and it like sits in that

1096
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:16.280
<v Speaker 2>binding site and prevents the adentizine from binding the receptor

1097
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:20.119
<v Speaker 2>but doesn't activate them, so the enzine can't get in,

1098
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:22.960
<v Speaker 2>and the receptor's like waiting for a signal that never

1099
01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:25.840
<v Speaker 2>comes and it's like, hah, you are awake now forever.

1100
01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:30.840
<v Speaker 1>So yes, caffeine, it swoops in and it takes the

1101
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:33.840
<v Speaker 1>seat of the sleepy chemical kind of like musical chairs,

1102
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:37.320
<v Speaker 1>and it blocks the snoozy feelings. But what if you

1103
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.519
<v Speaker 1>are staring at the ceiling and not even the fancy

1104
01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:43.480
<v Speaker 1>nancy trick of thinking of a category like fruits or

1105
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:45.760
<v Speaker 1>cities or Star Wars characters and then going down the

1106
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:47.920
<v Speaker 1>alphabet thinking of things in that category that start with

1107
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:52.400
<v Speaker 1>each letter is working. Is it best to gradually taper

1108
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:58.079
<v Speaker 1>off caffeine? Like if you need to? If you needed to, like,

1109
01:00:58.159 --> 01:00:59.639
<v Speaker 1>why would you stop drinking coffee?

1110
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't and I don't understand the question, she says

1111
01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:03.599
<v Speaker 2>with a coffee cup.

1112
01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:07.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why anyone to do that? Okay. A

1113
01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:11.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of people had questions about the genetic levels of neurotransmitters,

1114
01:01:11.599 --> 01:01:17.559
<v Speaker 1>like Bradley, Joe Portfino, Corey Navis, Kinley, Wallace Andrea essentially asked,

1115
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:23.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, anxiety, depression, hereditary contagious. Radley asked, our imbalances

1116
01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:27.599
<v Speaker 1>in neurotransmitters more likely due to genetics or environment, speaking

1117
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.039
<v Speaker 1>of someone with a whole slew of mental illnesses and

1118
01:01:30.039 --> 01:01:33.880
<v Speaker 1>addicted behaviors in my family, including myself and Radley. You're

1119
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:35.760
<v Speaker 1>not alone. I feel like most of us are probably

1120
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:40.159
<v Speaker 1>in the same basket going into Thanksgiving. Everybody's gonna know

1121
01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:43.679
<v Speaker 1>that they're in a family of nuts. Absolutely, we all are,

1122
01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:44.480
<v Speaker 1>all of us.

1123
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:49.039
<v Speaker 2>There's so many ways that neurotransmitter levels can be affected.

1124
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Definitely genetics is one of them. Definitely environment is another,

1125
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:56.719
<v Speaker 2>and things that were temporarily going through can.

1126
01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Influence it as well.

1127
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:01.440
<v Speaker 2>So like if you've just experienced a traumatic loss, you

1128
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:06.760
<v Speaker 2>are going to have differences in your neurotransmitter release, but

1129
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.639
<v Speaker 2>that is temporary and will eventually go back to what

1130
01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.639
<v Speaker 2>for you as a normal level and you're able to cope.

1131
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.599
<v Speaker 2>But some people that have genetic differences, what does that

1132
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:21.280
<v Speaker 2>even mean. It could mean we produce different amounts of neurotransmitter.

1133
01:02:21.400 --> 01:02:25.119
<v Speaker 2>It could mean that our receptors have different responses to

1134
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:30.079
<v Speaker 2>those neurotransmitter than a neurotypical response. There's so many different

1135
01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:35.239
<v Speaker 2>ways that the amount or the reaction to a neurotransmitter

1136
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:39.159
<v Speaker 2>can be affected by genetics or by environment. So the

1137
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.880
<v Speaker 2>answer is yes, yes, That was a very long yes answer.

1138
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:45.800
<v Speaker 1>So genetics can influence your neurotransmitter levels for sure. But

1139
01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:49.719
<v Speaker 1>before you blame your parents for everything, a whole bunch

1140
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:52.400
<v Speaker 1>of factors are also at play. So it's not you,

1141
01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:56.119
<v Speaker 1>fancy Nancy, it's me or Dad, or how much caffeine

1142
01:02:56.119 --> 01:02:58.039
<v Speaker 1>I drink, or maybe jet lag or the fact that

1143
01:02:58.079 --> 01:02:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I haven't been to the gym in a month. Anyway,

1144
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:05.480
<v Speaker 1>what about SNRIs versus SSRIs, I know, Aurora, Heather Gentry,

1145
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Gracie Zeca, le An Schister, Rachel Polivka, and Amelia h

1146
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:14.239
<v Speaker 1>All wanted to know. Do we know why different SSRIs

1147
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and SNRIs have different effects on people? Amelia h wanted

1148
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:20.880
<v Speaker 1>to know, is it just the molecular structure? Heather Gentry

1149
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:24.280
<v Speaker 1>is a first time question asker, so is Gracie Zeca,

1150
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:28.079
<v Speaker 1>And they both kind of asked about increasing numbers of

1151
01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:33.280
<v Speaker 1>atypical antidepressants and if the serotonin and depression model is

1152
01:03:33.400 --> 01:03:36.920
<v Speaker 1>not correct, if it's bigger than that. It's definitely bigger

1153
01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.320
<v Speaker 1>than that. Okay, it's definitely bigger than that.

1154
01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Especially when you're talking about the interplay between depression and anxiety.

1155
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:47.199
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I think of when I think of

1156
01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:53.239
<v Speaker 2>a combination of SSRIs and s NRIs. So we're still

1157
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:56.679
<v Speaker 2>talking about reuptake inhibitors. We're still talking about like the

1158
01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:00.639
<v Speaker 2>little molecules that go around collecting the neurotransmitters and shoving

1159
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:02.920
<v Speaker 2>them back into the cell that they originated from and

1160
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:06.880
<v Speaker 2>waiting for the next opportunity to release them, and inhibiting

1161
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.760
<v Speaker 2>this process, so keeping those neurotransmitters in the synapse longer

1162
01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:13.639
<v Speaker 2>so that you get a more prolonged signal. Now we're

1163
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:19.800
<v Speaker 2>talking about changing the amounts of serotonin and norepinephrin and

1164
01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:22.719
<v Speaker 2>titrating those differences. That's why a lot of people have

1165
01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:26.360
<v Speaker 2>to try multiple different combinations of drugs until they find

1166
01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the one that works for them, because their problem might

1167
01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:33.360
<v Speaker 2>be more serotonin or less serotonin might be more about norepinefrinin.

1168
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.559
<v Speaker 2>If it's anxiety related, it probably is or less.

1169
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Ah, I wonder if that's why SSRIs didn't do

1170
01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:43.559
<v Speaker 1>much for me. But as a person with generalized anxiety disorder,

1171
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:48.000
<v Speaker 1>thanks very much. An SNRI was helpful. Like what is

1172
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:52.679
<v Speaker 1>happening with the noropenephyrin when it comes to anxiety? Like

1173
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:53.920
<v Speaker 1>is it going off?

1174
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:54.239
<v Speaker 2>Is it?

1175
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:55.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

1176
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:58.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean, like I was saying, nora penephrine is

1177
01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:00.519
<v Speaker 2>keeping you awake and it's telling you what focus on.

1178
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:03.360
<v Speaker 2>So a generalized anxiety disorder, not only are you awake,

1179
01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.519
<v Speaker 2>but you're constantly having to focus on all the things

1180
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:10.039
<v Speaker 2>that are chasing you, Like you're just your attention is

1181
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:12.760
<v Speaker 2>on all the things that could potentially kill you, because

1182
01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:14.920
<v Speaker 2>your brain's trying to keep you alive, but it thinks

1183
01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:16.679
<v Speaker 2>that everything is trying to kill you, so you have

1184
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:19.039
<v Speaker 2>to pay attention to everything. And then there's all the

1185
01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:21.400
<v Speaker 2>things and it gets really overwhelming because everything is trying

1186
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:23.199
<v Speaker 2>to kill you, and it's like living in Australia, but

1187
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:26.559
<v Speaker 2>yet it's you know, like this is like a terrible

1188
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:28.679
<v Speaker 2>cycle for brains to get.

1189
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:33.079
<v Speaker 1>Into Australia, the land of shacks and snykes and spoil

1190
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:38.039
<v Speaker 1>us and angreek kangaroos. I guess an angry kangaroo too?

1191
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Who gives you just one star? Oh look, kangaroo two?

1192
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:43.400
<v Speaker 1>I said your name again. You loved it. I feel

1193
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:49.039
<v Speaker 1>like perhaps you're very empathetic too this particular. It might

1194
01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:52.960
<v Speaker 1>be that I have experienced that before, and so does

1195
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:56.039
<v Speaker 1>an s n RI. I does it? What exactly is

1196
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:58.440
<v Speaker 1>it doing to norop an effort if it's a selective

1197
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.599
<v Speaker 1>norop and ephrin reap take inhibitor. Does that? Is it

1198
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:04.519
<v Speaker 1>good to have more norropin efforn between the cells?

1199
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it can be, but it depends on the comparison

1200
01:06:07.719 --> 01:06:10.840
<v Speaker 2>levels to the other neurotransmitters. Okay, right, so you have

1201
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:15.039
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to balance dopamine, serotonin, nora peneffrin and get

1202
01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:18.719
<v Speaker 2>that right cocktail so that you get a harmony instead

1203
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:20.639
<v Speaker 2>of a discordant dysfunction.

1204
01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:22.960
<v Speaker 1>If that makes sense. That doesn't make sense. I didn't

1205
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:27.159
<v Speaker 1>realize that snrize and anxiety. Could that could be a

1206
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.280
<v Speaker 1>good link. I always thought, if I've got anxiety, why

1207
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:33.360
<v Speaker 1>do I want more goddamn nora perffor my set absence?

1208
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I didn't. That was me screaming at my own brain. Yeah. So, yes,

1209
01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:42.840
<v Speaker 1>SNRIs affect both the nora pernephrin and the serotonin, and

1210
01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:46.280
<v Speaker 1>it's the balance that can be helpful. Although the first

1211
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:48.800
<v Speaker 1>few weeks on an snri I can be rocky as

1212
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:52.280
<v Speaker 1>hell and more stressy as your brain adjusts and then

1213
01:06:52.400 --> 01:06:55.400
<v Speaker 1>becomes more chill. So my brain asked me to tell

1214
01:06:55.639 --> 01:06:58.679
<v Speaker 1>your brain that as a heads up, Nikki. First time

1215
01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:01.800
<v Speaker 1>question asker asked, is the dopamine pathway activated when you

1216
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:05.000
<v Speaker 1>eat an oreo while studying, like it would be when

1217
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you smoke a cigarette. What is that oreo question?

1218
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I'm going to assume that the reason we're

1219
01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:13.920
<v Speaker 2>talking about oreos is because there is a paper that

1220
01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:17.760
<v Speaker 2>showed that mice prefer oreos to cocaine, and then it

1221
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:22.000
<v Speaker 2>was used in mainstream media to promote many popular but

1222
01:07:22.199 --> 01:07:28.559
<v Speaker 2>scientifically irrelevant headlines like sugar is more addictive than cocaine

1223
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and a bunch of other things. So I'm just gonna

1224
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:37.239
<v Speaker 2>substitute oreo for parmesan goldfish, which is what I eat

1225
01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:42.920
<v Speaker 2>when I was studying. And yeah, very very different things.

1226
01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:47.039
<v Speaker 2>So we're talking about sugar and carbohydrates and feeding your

1227
01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:49.920
<v Speaker 2>brain in a certain way. There's definitely dope mean release

1228
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:52.480
<v Speaker 2>when you're eating food, because that's one of the things

1229
01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:54.119
<v Speaker 2>that are going to keep you alive. And that's what

1230
01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:57.639
<v Speaker 2>dope mean is there for have we gotten this point enough?

1231
01:07:57.800 --> 01:07:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure.

1232
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Let me reiterate it. Dope I mean is released to

1233
01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:03.440
<v Speaker 1>when you encountered things that keep you alive.

1234
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:07.480
<v Speaker 2>The nicotine completely different. So nicotine is a cognitive enhancer,

1235
01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:11.559
<v Speaker 2>so it's probably helping your prefrontal cortex function, and it's

1236
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:16.239
<v Speaker 2>shown to help decrease anxiety. So it's probably interacting in

1237
01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:21.119
<v Speaker 2>your amygdala to reduce stress and facilitating better studying.

1238
01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, side note, just google oreo plus cocaine. That study

1239
01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:29.760
<v Speaker 1>is everywhere. It was cited by pretty much every news

1240
01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:32.479
<v Speaker 1>outlet in the known universe, and a professor who worked

1241
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:35.000
<v Speaker 1>on the study stated in a twenty thirteen press release

1242
01:08:35.079 --> 01:08:38.680
<v Speaker 1>that he quote hadn't touched an oreo since the experiment,

1243
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:43.600
<v Speaker 1>but it's unclear if that's because of their addictive implications

1244
01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:47.439
<v Speaker 1>or just because watching rats pick apart any food with

1245
01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:50.159
<v Speaker 1>their tiny clod feet for years on end tends to

1246
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:54.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of tarnish its appeal. Now speaking of full little bellies,

1247
01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:57.840
<v Speaker 1>so this is a good segue to the gut biome

1248
01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:04.479
<v Speaker 1>and Libby Miller, Emmahawk, Schneider, Kabi, maybe Isabelle, Christine Hottinger,

1249
01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Cara Gallan, Mackenzie Campbell, Generic Nikki Eli's I Lean, Mackenzie Campbell,

1250
01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Williams, Jen Anathos, and Michelle Lee all asked about

1251
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:17.680
<v Speaker 1>how many of our neurotransmitters are made in our guts

1252
01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.439
<v Speaker 1>and do we have any leads yet on good foods

1253
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:24.239
<v Speaker 1>for good neurotransmitters Christine Hotten dress that is, how do

1254
01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I eat myself happy?

1255
01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:30.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, actually, there's been a lot of recent studies on

1256
01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:33.640
<v Speaker 2>the microbiome and the influence of food on mood, and

1257
01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:37.039
<v Speaker 2>we've always known, even before we identified that the microbiome

1258
01:09:37.159 --> 01:09:40.920
<v Speaker 2>was a thing that diet had a huge impact on mood.

1259
01:09:41.720 --> 01:09:44.199
<v Speaker 2>And of course we have always talked about sort of

1260
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:48.800
<v Speaker 2>blood sugar activity and how crashing after a lot of

1261
01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:53.000
<v Speaker 2>sugar can influence our mood and make us depressed. But

1262
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:55.720
<v Speaker 2>what I think that we're really asking about here is

1263
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.359
<v Speaker 2>the chemicals that are released by the gut biomey. One

1264
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:02.560
<v Speaker 2>of those chemical has been shown to be serotonin, which

1265
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:05.319
<v Speaker 2>is like one of the really really big findings in

1266
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.880
<v Speaker 2>that field, and like in the neuroscience field too, because

1267
01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:12.439
<v Speaker 2>we thought, oh, neurotransmitters are synthesized in the neurons, But yeah,

1268
01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess not always. I guess there can be serotonin

1269
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:18.119
<v Speaker 2>and potentially other neurotransmitters just kind of floating around.

1270
01:10:17.960 --> 01:10:23.119
<v Speaker 1>In your bloodstream. Fancy meeting you here. Does it influence mood? Yes? Probably.

1271
01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Are there particular superfoods that you can eat to raise

1272
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:32.840
<v Speaker 2>your serotonin? Probably not, But what we eat definitely does

1273
01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:38.800
<v Speaker 2>influence the different types of microorganisms and the ratios of

1274
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:43.560
<v Speaker 2>those microorganisms in our gut. So I can't tell her

1275
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:46.319
<v Speaker 2>what to eat to make herself happy, But if she

1276
01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:50.359
<v Speaker 2>finds a particular type of diet that does make her happy,

1277
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:54.159
<v Speaker 2>she's not just it's not all placebo, right, It's not

1278
01:10:54.359 --> 01:10:54.840
<v Speaker 2>just in.

1279
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Her head, in her good exactly. I think that's so bananas,

1280
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:02.199
<v Speaker 1>that so much serotonin is made in our in our

1281
01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:06.479
<v Speaker 1>simmering poo tubes. Who knew? Who knew? It? Is crazy?

1282
01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:09.880
<v Speaker 2>And I think about that too sometimes when I'm I'm

1283
01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:14.119
<v Speaker 2>like on a particular binge of like very very unhealthy.

1284
01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Food, and I'm like, how long am I going to

1285
01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:16.560
<v Speaker 1>have to eat.

1286
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Healthy to readjust the ratios of like gut bacteria because

1287
01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I know that I'm feeding it a certain type of

1288
01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:25.760
<v Speaker 2>sugar or just a lot of sugar that like there's

1289
01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:29.279
<v Speaker 2>going to be overgrowth of one population, you know, of

1290
01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:32.239
<v Speaker 2>my in my microbiome, and like I'm like apologizing to

1291
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:37.079
<v Speaker 2>the potentially more valuable and rarer bacteriums in my gut,

1292
01:11:37.159 --> 01:11:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm sorry, i know overfeeding.

1293
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:42.439
<v Speaker 1>That, you know. I feel like, if you like SimCity,

1294
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:46.520
<v Speaker 1>you'll love the gut biome Oh, yes, that's so true.

1295
01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:50.399
<v Speaker 1>It's like real world consequences. For more on this topic,

1296
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:54.680
<v Speaker 1>you can see last November's Microbiology episode with doctor Elaine Shaw,

1297
01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:58.079
<v Speaker 1>who herself says she tries to eat a very diet.

1298
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:01.920
<v Speaker 1>So give your microbes natural foods that would help them thrive,

1299
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:06.159
<v Speaker 1>i e. Not oreos or cocaine, which was in soft

1300
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:11.079
<v Speaker 1>drinks until the early nineteen hundreds, which is just bananas. Okay,

1301
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:14.720
<v Speaker 1>speaking of guzzlin' up, A few people asked about alcohol.

1302
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Lindsay to Falco, Amelia h Anna Thompson and Emmanuel Sanchez

1303
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:20.039
<v Speaker 1>asked what's going on in the brain with different drugs

1304
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:23.760
<v Speaker 1>and controlled substances like alcohol? And Amelia h one, you

1305
01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:28.560
<v Speaker 1>know why is alcoholism an inheritable trait? Oh? Alcohol is

1306
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:32.960
<v Speaker 1>so interesting because there's no like alcohol receptor. Oh, like,

1307
01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:33.600
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't.

1308
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:37.039
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't act on a particular receptor the way that

1309
01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:41.840
<v Speaker 2>like I was describing aceetylcholine and nicotine. It like sort

1310
01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:46.479
<v Speaker 2>of cozies up to the receptor and it's like soft influence,

1311
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>like we would call it allosteric modulation. Okay, So it

1312
01:12:50.039 --> 01:12:53.039
<v Speaker 2>doesn't like bind to the receptor and cause the receptor

1313
01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:55.880
<v Speaker 2>to do anything, but it affects the way that the

1314
01:12:55.960 --> 01:12:59.199
<v Speaker 2>receptor responds to the molecules that it's really supposed to

1315
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:04.119
<v Speaker 2>be talking too, So it can make it open like easier,

1316
01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:07.960
<v Speaker 2>so it needs like less drug or less neurotransmitter before

1317
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:12.520
<v Speaker 2>it responds. So it's very like sneaky and insidious in

1318
01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:14.359
<v Speaker 2>terms of the activity in the brain.

1319
01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:16.479
<v Speaker 1>Alcohol has anyone that.

1320
01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Has been drunk, like you know, it affects your motor

1321
01:13:19.880 --> 01:13:22.159
<v Speaker 2>control and your muscles as well, so it has more

1322
01:13:22.239 --> 01:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>than just brain brain effects. But in the brain it

1323
01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:30.159
<v Speaker 2>acts in that allisteric sort of soft soft power kind

1324
01:13:30.319 --> 01:13:31.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of a way, and.

1325
01:13:31.399 --> 01:13:35.159
<v Speaker 1>Does it kind of mess with frontal cortex activity, Like

1326
01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:38.000
<v Speaker 1>does it in terms of like loss of inhibition and

1327
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:40.039
<v Speaker 1>maybe less control over emotion?

1328
01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it it disinhibits the inhibitory neurons.

1329
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:48.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that right.

1330
01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like the act of alcohol is a double negative. Okay,

1331
01:13:51.880 --> 01:13:55.000
<v Speaker 2>So it works on your inhibitory neurons.

1332
01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, that's why I won't. So they're normally like

1333
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:01.640
<v Speaker 1>on like I'm inhibiting and I'm doing my job and

1334
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:06.880
<v Speaker 1>then I'll calls like take a break, no gap, Crystal says.

1335
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:11.279
<v Speaker 1>The alcohol affects dopamine. Sarah toonin gabba, which is a

1336
01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:16.079
<v Speaker 1>neurotransmitter that helps maintain calm and glutamate pathways which affect memory.

1337
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:19.640
<v Speaker 1>But just as your college roommate may have just lived

1338
01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:23.000
<v Speaker 1>for Friday Jaeger shots and you have never finished a beer,

1339
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:27.560
<v Speaker 1>different people have different genetics that influence how receptors respond

1340
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:29.920
<v Speaker 1>to alcohol. But the main point is it doesn't have

1341
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:33.560
<v Speaker 1>to just affect dopamine to become addictive. And scientists they're

1342
01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:37.439
<v Speaker 1>still figuring out how it all works, neuroscience. It's complicated.

1343
01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:41.079
<v Speaker 1>Who knew? I mean all of us, literally all of us? Okay, Now,

1344
01:14:41.199 --> 01:14:44.039
<v Speaker 1>on the topic of substances, a bunch of people did

1345
01:14:44.079 --> 01:14:50.680
<v Speaker 1>ask about recreational rooks. Jess Basita Garcia, Rebecca Landry, Joe Portofino,

1346
01:14:51.119 --> 01:14:56.199
<v Speaker 1>him and Alonso, Kevin List, James Bullio, Cassie Carrie Brigham

1347
01:14:56.479 --> 01:14:59.399
<v Speaker 1>all kind of asked, Hey, what's going on with res

1348
01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:04.640
<v Speaker 1>creational ritualistic drugs like ayahuasca. Kevin List asked, what are

1349
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts on microdosing for mental health issues like depression?

1350
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:11.199
<v Speaker 1>And Jess wanted to know flim flame or not is

1351
01:15:11.479 --> 01:15:16.319
<v Speaker 1>psilocybin in effective treatment for medication resistant psychiatric conditions? So

1352
01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>what's going on with magical things.

1353
01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Magical things are like it's if one aspect of the

1354
01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:28.640
<v Speaker 2>orchestra went completely like we came on steroids. If you

1355
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>showed up and there was like thirty seven cellos and

1356
01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:40.760
<v Speaker 2>like four of all of the other instruments, whatever, that

1357
01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:44.159
<v Speaker 2>would sound like that's kind of what recreational drugs do.

1358
01:15:44.399 --> 01:15:50.159
<v Speaker 2>They put things completely out of balance. And we experienced

1359
01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:54.920
<v Speaker 2>through a new reality through that lens, like brains are

1360
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:58.840
<v Speaker 2>basically making a guess at our realities anyway, and so

1361
01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:02.479
<v Speaker 2>we experienced a brain's best guess at what is actually

1362
01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:03.880
<v Speaker 2>happening right now.

1363
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Your whole reality is just a picture that your brain

1364
01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:11.439
<v Speaker 1>has painted based on what it's sensing. How weird is that?

1365
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>What is even real?

1366
01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:16.760
<v Speaker 2>And so when the predictions of the brain, or the

1367
01:16:16.840 --> 01:16:18.920
<v Speaker 2>way that the system that is the brain tries to

1368
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:25.479
<v Speaker 2>anticipate or interpret these completely out of whack situation, that's

1369
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:28.600
<v Speaker 2>when we get the fun that is recreational drugs.

1370
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:32.239
<v Speaker 1>What happens with psychedelics is it a particular neurotransmitter that

1371
01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>is just going off.

1372
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:38.520
<v Speaker 2>A lot of them are acting on the serotonin system. Okay,

1373
01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:42.479
<v Speaker 2>because serotonin is like when it's sort of a mod

1374
01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:46.000
<v Speaker 2>it's a modulation. It's more global than a lot of

1375
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the other neurotransmitters, I would say. And so when you

1376
01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.680
<v Speaker 2>get like a bunch of serotonin like dumped into the system,

1377
01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:54.079
<v Speaker 2>you have a lot of different brain regions that are

1378
01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:56.119
<v Speaker 2>all like trying to cope with life.

1379
01:16:56.399 --> 01:16:59.479
<v Speaker 1>Is that why people will take supplements like five htp

1380
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:03.239
<v Speaker 1>after they will do like Mollie or something like that.

1381
01:17:03.359 --> 01:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can deplete the amount because your brain is

1382
01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:07.439
<v Speaker 2>synthesizing those molecules.

1383
01:17:07.520 --> 01:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>There's a limited number of them.

1384
01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:11.039
<v Speaker 2>If you think about a factory production line, it only

1385
01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:13.479
<v Speaker 2>goes so fast, so you can only produce so many

1386
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.760
<v Speaker 2>toys or so many cars, or you can only produce

1387
01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:19.039
<v Speaker 2>so many molecules of your particular neurotransmitter.

1388
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:20.960
<v Speaker 1>And so if you have.

1389
01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Taken Mollie or one of these recreational drugs that has

1390
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:28.159
<v Speaker 2>dumped a whole bunch of neurotransmitter into your brain and

1391
01:17:28.279 --> 01:17:31.359
<v Speaker 2>you've been like backstroking through those happy molecules.

1392
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:33.359
<v Speaker 1>For a while, Oh the water is great.

1393
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:36.119
<v Speaker 2>And when there's time for your brain to go back

1394
01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to normal because it's no longer getting those signals, there's

1395
01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:41.760
<v Speaker 2>like it has nothing left to give, literally, and so

1396
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:45.119
<v Speaker 2>giving it some precursors for the molecules that it needs

1397
01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:48.000
<v Speaker 2>to replenish. Is sort of a way of helping it

1398
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:51.079
<v Speaker 2>get back to normal because you're skipping a few steps

1399
01:17:51.119 --> 01:17:52.760
<v Speaker 2>in the assembly line.

1400
01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Got it, so you're not left like high and dry,

1401
01:17:56.399 --> 01:18:01.119
<v Speaker 1>like literally high and actually dry of the good range juices. Now,

1402
01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:04.119
<v Speaker 1>this next topic was on the minds of Patron's John

1403
01:18:04.279 --> 01:18:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Rokevic Graham Tattersall, Maria Generic, Nikki, Sidney Manzil, don Ewald,

1404
01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:13.079
<v Speaker 1>first time mindfulness question asker Jennifer Ran and first time

1405
01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:15.840
<v Speaker 1>question asker Ashley Beatty, who wondered about the impact of

1406
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:21.840
<v Speaker 1>meditation on anxiety and depression specifically. And now, what about meditation, yoga,

1407
01:18:22.039 --> 01:18:26.000
<v Speaker 1>things like that. Do you ever use any of it?

1408
01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel like you should be using it? I

1409
01:18:28.319 --> 01:18:30.039
<v Speaker 1>think that it's definitely a good place to start.

1410
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:33.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm one of those people that is, like, why would

1411
01:18:33.079 --> 01:18:34.760
<v Speaker 2>you pay your gym membership if you could just go

1412
01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:35.960
<v Speaker 2>outside and run?

1413
01:18:36.039 --> 01:18:38.760
<v Speaker 1>And then I just stay inside what's netflix the entire time?

1414
01:18:39.159 --> 01:18:42.800
<v Speaker 2>And that's kind of how I feel about like about mindfulness,

1415
01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:45.479
<v Speaker 2>Like it's something that you can do quite easily. You

1416
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:49.279
<v Speaker 2>know that there's positive effects, Like there's been scientific papers

1417
01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:52.920
<v Speaker 2>that have shown that there are positive effects of meditation practice,

1418
01:18:53.079 --> 01:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>of mindfulness practice that really does help quiet some of

1419
01:18:56.920 --> 01:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>the overactivity and the amygdala that we see and like

1420
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:03.600
<v Speaker 2>stern society for instance, So why not do it?

1421
01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:09.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't do it. I probably should. It would definitely

1422
01:19:09.960 --> 01:19:12.600
<v Speaker 1>help me a lot. So do as I say, not

1423
01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>as I do. Okay, doctor, Yeah, okay? What is your

1424
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:23.159
<v Speaker 1>least favorite thing about neuroscience? About brains or about your

1425
01:19:23.199 --> 01:19:28.319
<v Speaker 1>life as a doctor brain? Essentially on TV and all

1426
01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:29.119
<v Speaker 1>over the world.

1427
01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Neuroscience is really hard to do without actually touching the

1428
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:38.279
<v Speaker 2>tissue that you're trying to study, and so we use

1429
01:19:38.359 --> 01:19:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of model brains in order to learn the

1430
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:45.119
<v Speaker 2>things that we learn, which is really challenging because a

1431
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of the even the information that I was sharing

1432
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>with you today, like we know this to be true

1433
01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:53.600
<v Speaker 2>for mice and rats, and we assume that it is

1434
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:58.760
<v Speaker 2>also true for humans to the best of our possible ability.

1435
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:01.720
<v Speaker 2>But as far as I know, we aren't able to

1436
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:06.920
<v Speaker 2>like do the same types of experiments on humans. So

1437
01:20:09.159 --> 01:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of what we know is inferred.

1438
01:20:11.960 --> 01:20:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Right, would you ever donate your brain to science? Who?

1439
01:20:17.039 --> 01:20:19.039
<v Speaker 1>What do you think I think I would be? I

1440
01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:23.439
<v Speaker 1>would be a terrible test well subject, like I'm I'm

1441
01:20:23.479 --> 01:20:24.000
<v Speaker 1>always in.

1442
01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>The outlier, Like I never feel that I am a

1443
01:20:27.920 --> 01:20:32.680
<v Speaker 2>good representation of the mathematical average of a human anything,

1444
01:20:33.239 --> 01:20:36.560
<v Speaker 2>So I feel like my brain would give like wrong

1445
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>data or like not accurate data. And I think that

1446
01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:44.159
<v Speaker 2>actually speaks to There was an earlier question about like

1447
01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:47.520
<v Speaker 2>why don't we know how these things work? And it's like, well,

1448
01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>we can know things pretty accurately for a particular breed

1449
01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:54.119
<v Speaker 2>of mouse or particular breed of rat because they're all

1450
01:20:54.279 --> 01:20:56.199
<v Speaker 2>exactly the same. They're all clones of each other, so

1451
01:20:56.199 --> 01:20:58.359
<v Speaker 2>it's really easy for us to know what's going on there.

1452
01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:02.359
<v Speaker 2>We can't clone humans, we can't do research on humans,

1453
01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:06.239
<v Speaker 2>so all of the genetic background, all of the environmental differences,

1454
01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:09.279
<v Speaker 2>all of those things mean that we're really just kind

1455
01:21:09.319 --> 01:21:11.880
<v Speaker 2>of guessing at what's going to work for the average population.

1456
01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it kind of crazy that we just have clones,

1457
01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.319
<v Speaker 1>like animal clones run around? Is that kind of weird?

1458
01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Does that ever creep you out?

1459
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:21.479
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't really creep me out, But I guess because

1460
01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I mostly work with bacteria and with mice and they're

1461
01:21:26.039 --> 01:21:31.319
<v Speaker 2>not it's easy to not see them as necessarily having personalities.

1462
01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:35.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I guess, but I never raised mice.

1463
01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:39.119
<v Speaker 2>I was the beneficiary of people that did mouse experiments,

1464
01:21:39.159 --> 01:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>but I never actually had a colony of mice that

1465
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I was raising. And I know that neuroscientists that do

1466
01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:48.680
<v Speaker 2>work directly with life behaving animals would absolutely tell me

1467
01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:53.239
<v Speaker 2>that I'm crazy. But they have personalities and differences even

1468
01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:55.039
<v Speaker 2>though genetically they're the same. Wow.

1469
01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you hear that Barbostressing cloned her dog and she

1470
01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:00.199
<v Speaker 1>thought she was getting one, and they're like, well, we

1471
01:22:00.239 --> 01:22:03.159
<v Speaker 1>have four, and she's like fuck, She'd just like, oh no,

1472
01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:06.520
<v Speaker 1>she'd like give it away to her assistant's daughter or something.

1473
01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:08.520
<v Speaker 1>She's like, I didn't. I didn't think i'd give four

1474
01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:10.960
<v Speaker 1>of them. It's true. Barbara Streis and missed her dog,

1475
01:22:11.039 --> 01:22:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Samantha so much that she had four more made from

1476
01:22:14.760 --> 01:22:17.119
<v Speaker 1>a swab of her cheek. Now, the runt of that

1477
01:22:17.279 --> 01:22:19.960
<v Speaker 1>letter sadly died, but she kept two of the other

1478
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:22.439
<v Speaker 1>ones and the third. She says, the thirteen year old

1479
01:22:22.520 --> 01:22:24.439
<v Speaker 1>daughter of my A and R Man bonded with one

1480
01:22:24.479 --> 01:22:26.319
<v Speaker 1>of the clones, so I gave them that puppy. So

1481
01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:28.600
<v Speaker 1>there you go. Clones. They're all over the place. It

1482
01:22:28.720 --> 01:22:31.960
<v Speaker 1>is just like not a biggie shrug. What's your favorite

1483
01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:35.039
<v Speaker 1>thing about your job or neuroscience or the brain?

1484
01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think that we are inherently selfish and

1485
01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:43.720
<v Speaker 2>that we really like to know things about ourselfs and

1486
01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:46.640
<v Speaker 2>neurosciences is kind of like my way of trying to

1487
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:51.239
<v Speaker 2>understand this like human condition. So, you know, brains are

1488
01:22:52.119 --> 01:22:55.960
<v Speaker 2>they're really intense, and they want everything to have meaning,

1489
01:22:56.079 --> 01:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>and they will subscribe meaning to things that really they're

1490
01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>is no purpose too, And so I think that's probably

1491
01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:06.159
<v Speaker 2>just like what I'm trying to do with my meaningless

1492
01:23:06.239 --> 01:23:10.439
<v Speaker 2>life is to figure out, you know, why why humans?

1493
01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Question Mark and why me?

1494
01:23:13.720 --> 01:23:18.479
<v Speaker 1>That's the best title for a biography, Why Humans? Why Us?

1495
01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:23.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh As for neuroscience movies, Crystal says, pretty much none

1496
01:23:23.399 --> 01:23:26.359
<v Speaker 1>of them get it right, like none, and they all

1497
01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:29.479
<v Speaker 1>try to make things way too spiritual, and that using

1498
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:32.159
<v Speaker 1>only ten percent of your brain is a big, hairy,

1499
01:23:32.359 --> 01:23:35.680
<v Speaker 1>smelly myth, and that this Scarlet Johansson vehicle Lucy was

1500
01:23:35.960 --> 01:23:39.600
<v Speaker 1>wall to wallflim flam and agregious. So she thinks writers

1501
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and directors should just focus on the real neuroscience because

1502
01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:44.560
<v Speaker 1>it's bananas and it's mysterious enough.

1503
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Reality is stranger than fiction, and so let's figure out

1504
01:23:49.399 --> 01:23:51.359
<v Speaker 2>what's actually going on and how can we tell that

1505
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:55.720
<v Speaker 2>story in an epic but accurate way, because it really

1506
01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:58.840
<v Speaker 2>is enough to blow your mind, right, your actual mind.

1507
01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, doctor Delaware. Thank you for having

1508
01:24:02.079 --> 01:24:04.600
<v Speaker 1>me of course. Okay, so now that you are fully

1509
01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:08.079
<v Speaker 1>enchanted by the knowledge of doctor Brain Crystal Dilworth, you

1510
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:11.239
<v Speaker 1>could head to Crystaldilworth dot com for links to her

1511
01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:14.119
<v Speaker 1>social media and her LinkedIn page. There's a link to

1512
01:24:14.199 --> 01:24:16.119
<v Speaker 1>that in the show notes of this episode, and special

1513
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:18.600
<v Speaker 1>thank you to Caseyhnmer for making sure that she got

1514
01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:22.159
<v Speaker 1>that domain name. That's Crystaldilworth dot com. So go there

1515
01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:26.680
<v Speaker 1>and follow her on Twitter and on LinkedIn and on Instagram.

1516
01:24:26.960 --> 01:24:30.960
<v Speaker 1>You can also check out Mission Unstoppable on CBS every Saturday. Now.

1517
01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Links will be up at aliward dot com slash ologies

1518
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:37.960
<v Speaker 1>slash Molecular Neurobiology, including to the charity supported and to

1519
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:41.239
<v Speaker 1>the sponsors making that possible. We are at ologies on

1520
01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Instagram and Twitter. I'm at ali Ward with one L

1521
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:46.720
<v Speaker 1>on both. If you have a picture of yourself in

1522
01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:49.920
<v Speaker 1>merch on merch Mondays, we repost it. So just hashtag

1523
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:53.880
<v Speaker 1>get Ologies Merch. I'm also on CBS every Saturday morning

1524
01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:56.840
<v Speaker 1>on Innovation Nation with Molrocca, and i have my own

1525
01:24:56.920 --> 01:25:00.439
<v Speaker 1>science show on CW called did I Mention In, which

1526
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:02.319
<v Speaker 1>is on Saturday or Sunday, depending on where you live

1527
01:25:02.359 --> 01:25:04.239
<v Speaker 1>in the country. And thank you to Aaron Talbert and

1528
01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:08.039
<v Speaker 1>of course Hannah Liippo for admitting the Facebook Ologies podcast

1529
01:25:08.119 --> 01:25:11.079
<v Speaker 1>group and for being amazing people. Special love going out

1530
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:13.800
<v Speaker 1>to the brain of Hannahalippo this week. Also thank you

1531
01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:16.359
<v Speaker 1>to Bonnie Dutch and Shannon Feltis of the comedy podcast

1532
01:25:16.479 --> 01:25:19.319
<v Speaker 1>You Are That for handling merch at ologiesmerch dot com

1533
01:25:19.479 --> 01:25:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and also for being wonderful. Transcripts and bleeped episodes are

1534
01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:26.600
<v Speaker 1>at aliward dot com slash ologies dash extras. They'll be

1535
01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:28.319
<v Speaker 1>a link in the show notes. Thank you to all

1536
01:25:28.399 --> 01:25:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the Ologies transcribers and the Ologies Transcribers Facebook group and

1537
01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:34.319
<v Speaker 1>Emily White for working on those and assistant editing was

1538
01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>done by Jared Sleeper of mind Jam Media and the

1539
01:25:37.239 --> 01:25:39.840
<v Speaker 1>mental health podcast My Good Bad Brain. He talks about

1540
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>ADHD a lot on that, so check out My Good

1541
01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:44.319
<v Speaker 1>Bad Brain. And thanks as always to the brain that

1542
01:25:44.479 --> 01:25:47.199
<v Speaker 1>stitches all these pieces together. Each week Stephen Ray Morris,

1543
01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:49.800
<v Speaker 1>who also hosts the percast about Cats and the Dino

1544
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:52.239
<v Speaker 1>podcast c Jurassic Right. The theme music was written in

1545
01:25:52.279 --> 01:25:54.359
<v Speaker 1>performed by Nick Thorburn of the band Islands, and that

1546
01:25:54.479 --> 01:25:56.880
<v Speaker 1>cello music you heard was the cello song by the

1547
01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:59.439
<v Speaker 1>Piano Price and there on YouTube. Now, if you stick

1548
01:25:59.439 --> 01:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>around and tell the the episode, you know, I tell

1549
01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:03.279
<v Speaker 1>you a secret. This week's secret is that I had

1550
01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:05.520
<v Speaker 1>a night mirror that I was getting shot to space.

1551
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:07.279
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, I'm an astronaut, I guess. And

1552
01:26:07.399 --> 01:26:11.039
<v Speaker 1>beforehand they had to weigh everything that went into or

1553
01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:13.000
<v Speaker 1>came out of my body. Let's just say it was

1554
01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:14.680
<v Speaker 1>a little too close for comfort in my dream, and

1555
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:16.800
<v Speaker 1>I woke up so relieved that I didn't have to

1556
01:26:16.840 --> 01:26:19.720
<v Speaker 1>pee in a bucket in front of anyone. Also another secret,

1557
01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:23.359
<v Speaker 1>I actually do keep candles of my wallet because honestly,

1558
01:26:23.479 --> 01:26:26.520
<v Speaker 1>it happens so often it's someone's birthday and just being

1559
01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:28.640
<v Speaker 1>able to shove a candle and like a piece of

1560
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:31.359
<v Speaker 1>toast or a Snickers, it's such a day maker. But

1561
01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:33.479
<v Speaker 1>so they don't take up a bunch of room. I

1562
01:26:33.640 --> 01:26:35.680
<v Speaker 1>just put like two or three wrapped up in a

1563
01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:38.159
<v Speaker 1>little piece of tinfoil and I wedge them in my wallet.

1564
01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:40.720
<v Speaker 1>But I'm pretty sure it looks like something illegal. But

1565
01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:43.199
<v Speaker 1>I promised keep a few birthday candles in your bag,

1566
01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:45.119
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to use them sooner than you think.

1567
01:26:45.199 --> 01:26:47.880
<v Speaker 1>They come in handy all the time. Also, does NASA

1568
01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:50.079
<v Speaker 1>even make you pean buckets? Or did I just make

1569
01:26:50.119 --> 01:26:52.159
<v Speaker 1>that up in a dream? Let me know, Okay, sure?

1570
01:26:52.239 --> 01:27:14.199
<v Speaker 1>By pack adermatollege, hobiology or doo zoology, lithology, yethology, melogy, pedatology, sychnology, seriology, selenology. Hey,

1571
01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I came here to be drugged, electrocuted and probe, not insulted.