1 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: Welcome fellow hobbyists to episode three hundred and eighty one 2 00:00:26,199 --> 00:00:31,039 of Hobby Hotline. We have got another great show planned 3 00:00:31,079 --> 00:00:34,840 for today. Joining me John the three D Eighties Kid 4 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,000 as your host, I have Doctor Jim Beckett and Chris Carlin. 5 00:00:39,799 --> 00:00:43,079 How's it going today? Doctor Beckett going great? How about you? 6 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 2: Chris doing awesome. 7 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 3: I was just up in Burbank this week working at 8 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,439 Burbank Sports Cards, the Submission Center up there, and it's 9 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,560 that shop is so vibrant. There's so much energy and 10 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,799 people from all over the world coming in there. It 11 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:00,560 really gets you all fired up about the hobby. It's 12 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:01,200 a lot of fun. 13 00:01:01,479 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: Well, it's got a crazy volume the stuff blowing through 14 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:05,760 that building, isn't it. 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: Oh my god? 16 00:01:08,079 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I see those what monthly reports from gem right 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,040 and it's insane. Of course many of it is Pokemon 18 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:20,599 these days, but yeah, for sure. But yeah, let's say 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,560 hello to the chat this morning. People are starting to 20 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:26,120 come in. I know it's early, especially for folks like 21 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:31,680 me on the West Coast, but we have got Scott Stukes, Welcome, 22 00:01:32,159 --> 00:01:38,359 Peter b Philly, Joe, Mad City Brew, good Morning, Jayhawker, 23 00:01:38,519 --> 00:01:44,040 Vintage cards from Kansas, Saber geek. We have got baseball 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,680 curmudgeon Confluence sports Cards. Our friend Ruben Snyder is so 25 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:55,319 welcome everybody. For our first topic of the day, we 26 00:01:55,359 --> 00:02:00,159 are going to talk about the fact that now THEO 27 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:04,519 ball card license has been added to the gauntlet that 28 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:10,879 is owned by Fanatics, so they basically have a stranglehold 29 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,120 on the licenses for all three major sports moving for 30 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:20,400 the foreseeable future. You know, what are we going to 31 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,759 see as a result of this is this? Are we 32 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 going to see good things? I mean, the ten X 33 00:02:26,199 --> 00:02:29,599 scene hasn't quite happened yet. What do you guys foresee 34 00:02:30,039 --> 00:02:32,800 moving forward on this subject? 35 00:02:33,599 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 4: You heard it here first, this will be the biggest 36 00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:40,199 year in the history of football cards because Fanatics has 37 00:02:40,199 --> 00:02:43,000 figured out a way to get a double year. I 38 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,800 think this twenty twenty six year is going to be 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,719 spectacular for football. Yeah, okay, on the others too, but 40 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,479 I think the football is really going to emerge. 41 00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know. I think strangleholds a tough 42 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,000 way to put it. You know, they put up and 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,080 worked in a way to acquire the license. But I 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,960 think collectors, you know, oftentimes we're active on X and 45 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,439 we're active on Facebook and these other instagram of course, 46 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,800 but I think it's really interesting seeing what I'm hearing 47 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,919 from and seeing from LinkedIn, in particular from tops people 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,000 that work there and the excitement and energy around it, 49 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,000 and some of the people I know in the industry 50 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:33,199 who are really solid at building products are already talking 51 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:33,680 about some. 52 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: Of the things that they're going to be able to 53 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:35,400 do with that. 54 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: And I mean some of the innovations, although maybe you know, 55 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,800 not accessible to everyone, are pretty darn cool and compelling. 56 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,199 If if TOPS can bring things like debut patches to football, 57 00:03:50,479 --> 00:03:55,599 that's that's pretty darn compelling. So I'm cautiously optimistic. I 58 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:58,479 know there's going to be some uh not everything is 59 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,759 going to be very wallet friendly, which is which is tough, 60 00:04:01,919 --> 00:04:05,800 but uh it's it's gonna be It's gonna be something 61 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,000 to watch, for sure, and there will definitely be things 62 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:11,520 that have not been done before that I think will 63 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,520 be pretty compelling. And I I'll say this, I'm not 64 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,680 sure that we're gonna see the end of Penninian football. 65 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,160 You know, they've been able to do some things that 66 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:24,199 are are are pretty compelling and from an artistic standpoint, 67 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,680 with both downtown and some of the manga things that 68 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,319 they've been doing that that aren't bad for an unlicensed 69 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,199 type of product, like It's wouldn't distract you when you've 70 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:38,240 got all these other things happening on the card to 71 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,160 not see a logo. So it'll be interesting to see 72 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:43,360 how they do too. And I know that's a subject 73 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,639 for a little later, but I'm cautiously optimistic. You know, 74 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,759 we're heading into the TOPS conference Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday 75 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,439 of this week. I know that what they're doing with NFL, 76 00:04:55,519 --> 00:04:59,560 we're gonna start hearing things about their plans right off 77 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,920 the bat. So from what I understand, this TOPS Conference 78 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,160 Industry conference is going to be one of their biggest 79 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:11,480 in the history of their company. I believe they have 80 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:15,240 over eight hundred attendees coming. And just to help you 81 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:17,839 understand how big that is, you know, I just did 82 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,879 the upper Deck conference in January and they had one 83 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:23,439 of their biggest conferences with about four hundred attendees. So 84 00:05:24,759 --> 00:05:27,639 this is going to be a big week, I think, 85 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,399 in terms of news that we have about what their 86 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:34,720 plans are, and we'll just have to buckle up and 87 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:35,480 see how it goes. 88 00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: As collectors, well, a lot of people you know, over 89 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,360 the years have not liked what Panini did with like 90 00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:51,199 relic material just being completely unconnected to an actual game 91 00:05:51,319 --> 00:05:55,240 and things like that. I mean, it's fanatics having better 92 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,319 access on that front kind of bring back the quality 93 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,759 of those kinds of items. I mean, what what what 94 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,800 should we see on that frant I think. 95 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 4: The photo matching stuff is getting better and better, but 96 00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:10,319 people are looking closer and closer, and it seems like 97 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:13,480 to me it's watering down the verbiage on the back 98 00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:16,240 of the cards. They're afraid to say that this was 99 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:20,839 used in this exact game at this moment. But I 100 00:06:20,879 --> 00:06:23,120 don't think that, you know, there ought to be truth 101 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,720 in packaging, and I think there is. It's just sometimes 102 00:06:26,759 --> 00:06:30,360 I think some of the companies occasionally have understated. They 103 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:34,279 don't want to overpromise that this is exactly that because 104 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:35,439 I think they've been burned. 105 00:06:35,639 --> 00:06:37,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's one of the tricky things, doctor Jim 106 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:40,120 is you know, I was working at a p deck 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,160 back in the heyday when when a deck had all 108 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,759 the licenses, and it's when you have so many things 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,120 going on, it's it's very easy internally to get distracted 110 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:54,560 or to have things get missed because there's there's so 111 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:57,879 many people involved in making the product at that point, 112 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,720 and there's so many different things happening that you have 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,160 things go out that aren't quite right. And especially you 114 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,279 know you mentioned we haven't ten x the hobby, Well 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,879 since they coined that phrase, we've at least three x 116 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,879 or four x the hobby. When I started at PSA 117 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,120 four years ago, we could grade forty thousand cards a day. 118 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:19,639 Now we're grading ninety to one hundred thousand cards a day, 119 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,079 and we still can't keep up with what people are 120 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,079 trying to submit. And really, what I believe has happened 121 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,680 is a globalization of the hobby. You know, having been 122 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,600 to Japan twice in the last year for hobby events 123 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,680 and Macau and things like that, the hobby has grown 124 00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:39,240 internationally over the last few years like I've never seen 125 00:07:39,519 --> 00:07:43,160 in my thirty years in the hobby. So I think 126 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:48,000 that with baseball being a global sport for sure, basketball 127 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,920 being a global sport, football, you know, it's definitely American sport. 128 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,639 But I think that this is just going to take 129 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,319 it to another level for them. But I do believe, 130 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,519 I do believe that we're going to see some growing 131 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,199 pains with this where you know, maybe some one of 132 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:08,519 the ones get out that aren't numbered, or there's two 133 00:08:08,839 --> 00:08:10,920 versions of the one of ones. You know, there's those 134 00:08:10,959 --> 00:08:14,680 types of things that are definitely growing pains that happen 135 00:08:14,759 --> 00:08:16,279 when you scale up like this. 136 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I would kind of argue the multiplication 137 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:22,720 to this point of the hobby has more to do 138 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,959 with the fact that COVID got people back into this 139 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,600 hobby for something to do, and many of them stayed 140 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,080 and now they're sharing it with their kids and and 141 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,799 things like that. And you know, that stage brought in 142 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:41,799 all the shoe flipper kind of guys that have now 143 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:44,000 left because it's not as quite as hot. 144 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: But well, I got to give credit to Tops on 145 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,039 on keeping people in with some of the things that 146 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,360 they have done, especially with regard to their rip night events. 147 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,240 You know, coordinating an athlete appearance is a nightmare. There's 148 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,519 I've athletes steel limos, you know, and you know it's 149 00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:07,159 it's not show and all sorts of nonsense that can 150 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,360 happen with that, and and they execute eighty appearances and 151 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:14,720 in one night, and it's it's wild. So and then 152 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,080 you know you have a lot of the mainstream things. 153 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,759 You can say what you want about Michael Rubin, but 154 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,720 people look at them, people see them and some of 155 00:09:21,759 --> 00:09:24,720 the relationships he has. When you've got Tom Brady opening 156 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:28,000 up card shops, this is probably a good thing, you know. 157 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:32,279 It's it's showing that the mainstream appeal of what we've 158 00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:34,519 always loved. And it reminds me a lot of when 159 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,799 I was a kid. I really loved indie bands, you know, 160 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,679 like the bands that people didn't quite know about, and 161 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,159 then when some of times they would get really big, 162 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,279 like Plink one eighty two in the beginning was a 163 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,200 band I just loved, and then they started selling out, 164 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,840 you know, stadiums, and it felt a little weird to 165 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:55,200 me that my little, my little thing had gotten so big. 166 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,639 And that's really how I kind of feel about the 167 00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:00,480 hobbies sometimes, is you know, this was it's just a 168 00:10:00,519 --> 00:10:04,279 small community that you know, everyone knew each other's names, 169 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,480 like a cheers, and now it's become this big entity, 170 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:09,519 this big brew house. 171 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 4: So to say, hey, giant one thing, Yeah, COVID certainly 172 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,679 is part of the story. But if you go back 173 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,000 in those days, you have a couple of giant, well, 174 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,240 one giant entrant is you can look at the history 175 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,840 of the hobby before fanatics and then post fanatics, fanatics 176 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,960 buying tops. I think that's a big part of the 177 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,799 growth story. The other thing is PSA was, back in 178 00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:42,759 my BGS days, was always a very worthy, fierce competitor 179 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,440 who actually, we're winning. We're beating us in volume, certainly, 180 00:10:47,799 --> 00:10:51,120 but that's that's nothing compared to what they've become under 181 00:10:51,159 --> 00:10:56,679 Matt Turner Collectors over arching brand. They've become just an 182 00:10:56,759 --> 00:11:00,480 absolute giant. It wasn't a sleeping giant that gottken up, 183 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,519 but if you look at the market cap of of 184 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,519 PSA and collectors over this time period, it's more than 185 00:11:08,519 --> 00:11:12,480 ten xt And so a lot of this growth in 186 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:15,279 the hobby has been because of some of these new 187 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:18,840 entrants who really think big and so there's there already 188 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:21,879 is a thought. You know, we turned inward with COVID 189 00:11:21,919 --> 00:11:23,399 and thought, oh, what are we going to do and 190 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,120 all that stuff. But when we came out, we said, hey, 191 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,440 what's out there? And all of a sudden there were 192 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,039 these two very large entities that weren't there before, who 193 00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:35,120 thought really big and who would have thought were you know, 194 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,799 a million cards a month? There are one hundred thousand 195 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:40,519 cards a day getting graded. It's it would be even 196 00:11:40,519 --> 00:11:44,919 mind boggling to Joe Orlando previous regime. 197 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is Joe like once a week. Yeah, and 198 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:49,919 think about Tops. 199 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,399 Speaker 4: Not under the umbrella of Fanatics. What Tops was doing. 200 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,879 Tops was was doing fine, But there's a whole another 201 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,720 gear that they're in now. 202 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 3: Well, doctor Jim, don't you think that when Michael Eisner, 203 00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:07,320 former head of Disney, buys Tops, Like this is what 204 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:09,679 I think. What we're seeing now with Tops and Fanatics 205 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,519 is kind of what we all believed might happen with 206 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,279 Michael Eisner owning Tops, and now we're seeing it with 207 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:17,279 with Michael Rubin. 208 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 4: So Okay, here's the way I would say it is 209 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,720 that Michael Eisner came from Disney. Hey we're Disney. We're 210 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:27,279 Disney that goes to Tops. Hey, we're Tops, we're Tops, 211 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,879 We're we're at the Tops. Fanatics comes in buys Tops 212 00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:36,159 and they say, we're Fanatics, we're taking over. We're going 213 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,679 to the Top and come with us. Yeah, that's a 214 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:45,200 different mindset there. Yeah, because because it's it's it's a 215 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,080 it's in hyperdrive now compared to what it was five 216 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,000 or ten years ago. 217 00:12:50,159 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: Well, if anyone wants to take part in any of 218 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,399 this conversation, the chat or the link is in the chat. 219 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,840 And what about the perspective that many folks have here 220 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,679 hoops hobby hangout. Seems like Fanatics is using the gambling 221 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,720 and lottery ticket aspect of the hobby to keep people 222 00:13:07,759 --> 00:13:10,600 in and attract new people. Not sure that's necessarily good, 223 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,279 And I would say even along with that, it feels 224 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,840 like a lot of the product is more geared towards 225 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:21,240 just selling the breakers. I mean, it has gambling just 226 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,879 too pervasive now in this whole space. 227 00:13:25,799 --> 00:13:28,519 Speaker 4: It is an aspect of the hobby. It's not the 228 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,679 whole hobby. If it was the whole hobby, we'd be 229 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,080 in a lot of trouble and we'd be regulated, We 230 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,559 really would be regulated. But it's a part of the hobby, 231 00:13:36,919 --> 00:13:39,559 and I hope it's not too big of a part 232 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:45,240 of the hobby. But the growth path for Fanatics, the company, 233 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,840 the entities that they are goes through gambling. And so 234 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,720 I've said there's a gamblification of the hobby and of 235 00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:56,080 the industry, and I think the hobby needs to be 236 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,320 somewhat resistant that there's got to be other ways to 237 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,080 enjoy the hobby besides you know the hits in the 238 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,559 in the you know, strikeout or home run. 239 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I like opening products with my kids. 240 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,120 This is a recent product from Tops. Star Wars Move 241 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:16,840 was outpost and it is kind of geared towards a breaker. 242 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:19,759 You know, you've got this breaker piece on top so 243 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:24,000 you can kind of disguise what's coming next. But I 244 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:26,919 will say I wasn't getting that type of product from 245 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,279 old Tops. This is a very compelling product, a little 246 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,159 higher end, a lot of exciting content and it's sketch cards, autographs. 247 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,600 The access Tops has gotten through fanatics with regard to 248 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:45,600 signers is incredible. You know, we're seeing Pedro Pascal autographs 249 00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:51,000 and for Fantastic four and Mandalorian and the list of 250 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,320 Marvel signers they've got since they acquired that license is incredible. 251 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,960 You know, at Upper Deck, we we had Marvel for 252 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,840 a while and we were able to get some okay names, 253 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,200 but we weren't getting Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds and 254 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,679 dual autograph cards to those guys. The access they have 255 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,279 is making content better, even if you know you're not 256 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,879 going to get one out of any box for collectors 257 00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:16,480 a lot of time, it's that thrill of at least 258 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,519 having the opportunity, the chance, And I know that it 259 00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:23,200 walks a very fine line on gambling. Not gambling, but 260 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,919 the excitement that you can get and the memories that 261 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,480 you can create when you pull something exciting with a 262 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,480 family member. It's every time that happens. I see it 263 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,039 in my kid's eyes, where seeds are being planted that 264 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,840 you know. I know they're going to kind of put 265 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,200 the hobby on the side when they find out about girls, 266 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,840 and but when they come back later, I know that 267 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:50,559 they'll they'll be really excited about what it's become. 268 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: And some of the cards that they have in their collection. 269 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe not. Maybe people don't leave anymore for girls. 270 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,200 Maybe they bring their girlfriends along with them and they're 271 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,159 the cool kids. It's cool because they've got your side. 272 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,200 Gig is amazing. 273 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. It used to be that way. And 274 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,399 now with with Instagram in particular, I'm seeing a lot 275 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:17,000 of male teens sticking around and flexing more than than 276 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,039 they used to. When they would be like, all right, 277 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,159 this is this is a nerd fest. Now they see 278 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,960 it as something cool and you know, when you have 279 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,559 white pages being created that say trading cards are cool again, 280 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,240 it's true. 281 00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:31,159 Speaker 2: You know, there is a cool factor to it. 282 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,519 Speaker 4: So you're you're a sixteen year old girl and you 283 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:37,399 what are you gonna say? My boyfriend works at McDonald's 284 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:42,080 or my boyfriend does cards on the weekend and we 285 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:47,279 can go to any concert, any restaurant, any activity that 286 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:47,960 we want to. 287 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,679 Speaker 1: Well, I mean now it's like one of the many 288 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,960 avenues of like the money side, hostle cool things. 289 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally the whole thing. 290 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,879 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I know my wife totally thinks I'm 291 00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:04,640 cooler because of what's behind me. 292 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 4: There you go, okay, no, my wife is downstairs rolling 293 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,240 around thicking to my story. 294 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,039 Speaker 2: All right, what else we got? 295 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: Social Media's exploded our hobby where once you were happy 296 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,160 with your friends, neighborhoods, lcs and meaning others through nearby shows. 297 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,319 The exposure has more than Brazilian quadruple. That is the truth, 298 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:29,960 there isn't it. 299 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 4: Well. 300 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: One thing I have loved about social media is some 301 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,400 of the Facebook groups because I collect some obscure things 302 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,680 and to be able to find ten twenty hundreds of 303 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:47,200 like minded people, and some of these Facebook groups that 304 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,599 are very niche, whether it be you know, aerror card 305 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,279 collectors or Star Wars collectors, think along those lines. 306 00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:58,319 Speaker 2: It's finding your tribe. It's a sense of belonging and 307 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,319 a sense of excitement about other people are are pulling 308 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,680 that that have become your Facebook friends, you know. 309 00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:11,039 Speaker 3: So I've I've stopped using Facebook for my personal seeing 310 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,880 how friends are, what they're up to, to really my 311 00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:18,799 hobby now because it's a very effective tool that way. So, yes, 312 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,480 there's a there's a flexing and self glossing that goes 313 00:18:21,519 --> 00:18:25,839 on on social media, but there's also a very vibrant community. 314 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:31,759 Speaker 1: All right, absolutely. So oh, we have a caller, Welcome 315 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,960 to Hobby Hotline. Joey, Hi, how's it going, Thanks doing well? 316 00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:39,519 What brings you on screen? 317 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,079 Speaker 5: I like the idea of allowing everyone and welcoming everyone on, 318 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,079 so I thought, if I have a few minutes before 319 00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:50,039 my kids wake up and start hounding me, I'll try 320 00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:50,480 to jump. 321 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: On any thoughts on the particular subject or any questions 322 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:54,880 for the panel. 323 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 5: I just think that one thing I kind of thank 324 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,000 you guys for saying in the last couple of minutes, 325 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,640 as I was turning on my computer and stuff is 326 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,359 I think that what everything has shifted towards, Like since 327 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,200 COVID and fanatics taking over and everything, there's just that 328 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,799 shift towards focus on money, whether it's in breaking. I 329 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:19,359 mean when I in twenty ten, i joined breaks, and 330 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,119 breaks were like ten or twenty dollars a team so 331 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,079 that we can share the cost of a box. 332 00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:26,039 Speaker 6: And hopefully get piece of cards. 333 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:31,319 Speaker 5: Right now, breaking is about optimizing the income for the breaker, 334 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,759 while others can take a lottery ticket to try to 335 00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:36,440 get a big card. 336 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 4: Right. 337 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,039 Speaker 5: So, I think whether it's flipping or breaking or whatever aspect, 338 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,519 it's just very money focused. And I think that's the 339 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:45,680 one observation I've. 340 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 3: Had, Well, it's never been a cheap hobby, right. Money 341 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,519 has always been an aspect of it for sure. But yeah, 342 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:57,240 that is the side that it's tough to kind of 343 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,480 deal with, I would say, is how expensive can get. 344 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:05,359 And especially you know when you see collectors that are 345 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,960 affected by you know, when you see collectors saying that, hey, 346 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,200 I'm selling off my collection. 347 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 2: I can't do it anymore. You know that type of thing. 348 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: It's it's sad and it's it's one of those things 349 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,519 where you know, you see gambling hotlines or things along 350 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:21,960 those lines. I think the collecting community right now does 351 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,119 a really good job of saying, you know, take a break, 352 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,200 take a break, come back, we love having you here, 353 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,920 what have you. But I think the industry probably kind 354 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,880 a job of that. Manufacturers could you know, in some 355 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:37,200 in some gambling sites they have a cool off button 356 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,200 or a button that you can hit where you know 357 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,000 you're not allowed to place a bed for twenty four 358 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:45,440 hours or whatever it may be. And for things like 359 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,160 EPAC or blockchain or even you know, buying stuff off 360 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,880 off the websites, that might be a good idea for 361 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,599 for manufacturers to take, but to date they haven't haven't 362 00:20:56,599 --> 00:20:57,000 wanted to. 363 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 4: Hey, question for you, Joey, what's to stop you from 364 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,880 getting thirty one friends or a group of friends, one 365 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,960 for each team and setting up a breaker co op 366 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,079 where I mean, the little man is cut out, you're 367 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,440 kind of sharing the cost and you're agreeing. I'm gonna 368 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,519 get it's tricky to figure out how you're gonna allocate 369 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,440 costs unless you want to just randomize it. But what's 370 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,720 to stop that? Because the breakers are providing a service 371 00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:28,920 and for that they're taking a fee. But people, people 372 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,880 want to pay them. So what's stopping you from, you know, 373 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:35,359 lowering the cost by getting thirty one like minded friends. 374 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,279 Speaker 6: I think just ultimately the cost of wax. 375 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 5: I mean, even if you split it against thirty across 376 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,519 thirty one people, you're still I mostly collect basketball, where 377 00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:48,759 it maybe wax is more expensive than it is in 378 00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:53,000 other sports, but still spending thirty dollars a person to 379 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,200 open a box of ten cards, I mean it is 380 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:58,519 still it's still cost prohibitive. 381 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 6: And the increased in the. 382 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 5: Cost of wax, I mean, it has a lot of factors, 383 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,799 but I think a lot of it has to do 384 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:11,240 with the increased exposure through COVID. It's a more popular obviously, 385 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:15,759 the hobby and collecting or cards in general, whatever angle 386 00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:18,160 people are taking is more popular than it has been 387 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,920 in the past, and that's increased the cost of wax. 388 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,319 And I think the reason that that the market can 389 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,240 withstand that increased cost of wax is because of, like 390 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:28,960 you said, trying to. 391 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 6: Split up that cost. 392 00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 5: But I still think that for me, if I went 393 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,839 to thirty people and said, hey, let's split up a 394 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,960 nine hundred dollars box of top chrome and sapphire basketball 395 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,559 or whatever, and we might be lucky to get it 396 00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:43,920 at that price, it's still not it still doesn't make 397 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,599 sense to open. 398 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 4: So your problem is more with the manufacturer than it 399 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:49,680 is with the breaker. They're just putting out oh, I 400 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,960 mean product, and that it has to be fractionalized, it 401 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,359 has to be broken and so, but it's still overpriced 402 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,880 compared to five years ago, for sure. 403 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I have I 404 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,839 don't know that I've identified a single individual. I don't 405 00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:08,079 know that I even have a problem with any of it. 406 00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:12,279 It's just I think, like Chris mentioned, the industry aspect 407 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,200 of the hobby is gotten really money hungry, where which 408 00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:20,440 is understandable. They're all businesses. I'm not saying that it's 409 00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:25,319 necessarily a bad thing. It's just there's a shift where 410 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,160 where that's what a lot of the focus is. And 411 00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,359 I think if you know, you can tailor your hobby 412 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,880 experience so that's not the focus, and you can interact 413 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,880 with collectors and tailor your social media and your YouTube 414 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,480 and whatever where you're focused and you're getting fed kind 415 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,240 of the collecting aspect of things, or maybe those who 416 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:45,920 are more focused on the cards and the love of 417 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,400 the cards and building their collection. But I think it's 418 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,240 just kind of a product of that, and unfortunately for 419 00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,920 those who enjoy opening boxes, that's just one part of 420 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,799 the hobby that's no longer accessible to you. If that's 421 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:02,920 if you don't care, if you're not part of the 422 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,160 breaking culture or whatever. 423 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:07,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've seen a shift to obvious like you 424 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,480 buying older product or just buying singles, you know, and honestly, 425 00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:15,200 buying singles is the safest way, you know. NBA is 426 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,119 a really tricky segment of our category because if you 427 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,720 think about it, for baseball, you have a thirty man roster, 428 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,039 right so, and on the podres my team I collect. 429 00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:26,839 You know, I've got a lot of stars. I could chase, 430 00:24:26,839 --> 00:24:29,519 I got Manny Machado, I got Fernando Tattoos Junior. I've 431 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:32,400 got pitchers, Mason Miller. So there's a lot of stars 432 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,279 that have good value. In In football, you know, you've 433 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:41,240 got running backs, quarterbacks, wide receivers, a larger team where 434 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,079 there's a couple of stars on each team. And in 435 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,279 hockey you have three lines of players and usually a 436 00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:52,319 couple of superstars on each team. In basketball you usually 437 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,880 have one. You have five guys that are out there. 438 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,640 You know, in the draft, you only have two rounds 439 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,680 of a draft compared to these other leagues that have 440 00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:03,160 you know, fifteen, So you have a smaller stamp, you 441 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,559 have a smaller selection of players, and a smaller selection 442 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,400 of players that can value out. And to make matters worse, 443 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,000 you don't have Michael Jordan because he's locked up by 444 00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:15,880 every deck. And even worse than that, Lebron James hates 445 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,160 signing and is only doing these one of one cards 446 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,079 and I don't know. I just saw a super fractor 447 00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:23,559 with his new signature. It's it's a crown and a line. 448 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,079 So I think it's a tough time to be an 449 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,200 MBA collector man if it was me, and I do 450 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,000 collect a little NBA. But I'm buying singles, I'm not 451 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:33,680 buying boxes. 452 00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:36,759 Speaker 4: But you can't buy singles unless somebody breaks it in 453 00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:37,279 the right. 454 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:38,559 Speaker 2: No, but I'd rather pay. 455 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: I'd rather pay one thousand dollars for a cool card 456 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,079 than a thousand dollars for three boxes where I get 457 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:46,279 forty dollars worth of cards on it. 458 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 4: But you can't get that. You can't get that card 459 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:52,519 unless somebody buys the box breaks it and all that. 460 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:54,599 But the other point I was going to make is 461 00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,279 that the card companies are configuring their products to cater 462 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,759 to breakers. Breakers. Maybe you're I don't know if they're 463 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:06,160 up to fifty percent of the product that gets out 464 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680 there is opened by breakers, but it's it's I bet 465 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,640 it's approaching that, and certainly with the higher end products 466 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,559 it's it probably is even more than that. So somebody's 467 00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:19,200 got to buy it, and then they've got to open it, 468 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:22,680 and they've got to release it into the hobby. The 469 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:26,079 industry is about the you know, the products the hobbies, 470 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:29,519 about the cards that we love. So I'm I share 471 00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:32,640 your concern, Joey. It's just that we're going against the 472 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,839 grain of what a profit seeking company is doing. They're 473 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,920 giving their best customers, which they're best customers, I think 474 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,599 are the people that want the cards for their collection, 475 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,440 but they think their best customer is the breaker who's 476 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:53,200 taking that product from them and then breaking it and 477 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,640 having a lot of fun with it and getting it 478 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,279 into the hands of people who then churn it and 479 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,160 transact it and eventually get it in the hands. 480 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: Of Chris Well For the manufacturers, Doctor Jim, you know, 481 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,240 I would always fight for the hobby shop. I think 482 00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:12,839 that they're really special that happens in hobby shops. And 483 00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,480 again being at Burbank sports Cars the last couple of days, 484 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,599 seeing that it's it's it's a special place. But for manufacturers, 485 00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:23,799 using breakers is the easy button. It's their easy way 486 00:27:23,839 --> 00:27:25,920 to all right. I don't have to worry about this. 487 00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:28,119 We don't have to fight with this guy on his 488 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,200 allocation or what have you. You know, here's this chunk, 489 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:34,960 was make it a segment and that's our easy button. 490 00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:37,759 And it feels like that's how that's been going. 491 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,039 Speaker 4: Well, it's not just easy. It's probably good business. You know, 492 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,480 if somebody looked at it from afar, they'd say, do 493 00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,480 you want to sell things slow for lower prices or 494 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:48,839 you want to sell things fast for higher prices? 495 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,799 Speaker 3: Well, I think there's also you have to look at 496 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:55,400 the quality of the individuals representing your brand. And one 497 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,599 thing I really enjoyed about working upper Deck is you know, 498 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,240 if there was a breaker that's drunk on, you know, 499 00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:05,640 and breaking or using profanity or things along those lines, 500 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,839 they cut them off. They wouldn't want that type of 501 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,720 person representing their brand. And I think some of the 502 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,039 other manufacturers haven't been that strict with regard to enforcement, 503 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,759 and it makes for a poor experience for our hobby. 504 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,519 You know, our industry has had enough negativity with regard 505 00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:29,400 to people doing the wrong things, or people taking advantage 506 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,720 of each other, or counterfeitters or things along those lines 507 00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,559 that it doesn't need another wave of negativity from breakers 508 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:41,359 who aren't focused on running it as a business or 509 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,319 running it as a fun thing to do on a 510 00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:43,880 Friday night. 511 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,559 Speaker 4: I agree with you, and that was absolutely the twentieth 512 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:51,359 century sentiment. But in the twenty first century, nobody's blaming 513 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,039 the phone company for profanity over the phone lines or 514 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,359 and you can get away with stuff on the various 515 00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:01,599 social media platforms because they don't represent the platform. And yeah, 516 00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:03,480 they ought to kick them out, but if they kick 517 00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:05,680 them out, they just come back under a different name. 518 00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:10,160 So I will say this, Uh, profanity, I'd like to 519 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,240 see that eliminated in any other kinds of kind of 520 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:18,400 illegal activities. But drunk on camera, good luck with that. People. 521 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,160 I'm convinced they've got a stick. And whether they're drunk 522 00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:28,799 on their on on some substance, or just living life large, 523 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,480 that's part of the part of the angle that they 524 00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:35,680 have and they move product. But yeah, I would draw 525 00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:38,559 the line. And like I said, especially if it's one 526 00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:41,480 of your bigger breakers. Wow, they had to clean up 527 00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:42,799 their act or move on. 528 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: So Joey, do you how old are your kids? 529 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 6: Five and a half, three and a half and ten months? 530 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 2: That's awesome, man? Do you so? Do you? Obviously do 531 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:54,160 you ever open with them? 532 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 6: Very little? 533 00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 5: But yeah, And what I've got myself deciding to open 534 00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:04,480 are are essentially retail of sets that I want to build, 535 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,920 base sets I want to build. 536 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 6: Where I like the look of the cards. 537 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 5: And if we end up getting nothing but a good 538 00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:12,839 chunk of a base set out of a retail box, 539 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,039 it's a cheap way to open with them. 540 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:15,799 Speaker 6: And that's it. 541 00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: Man, you agreed to that's awesome. 542 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:19,359 Speaker 6: Thank you? 543 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,079 Speaker 1: All right, I think maybe it's time to move on 544 00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:27,359 to the next topic. Can a company without licenses actually 545 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,759 stay viable in long term? I mean, is Panini at 546 00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:32,920 this point on life support? 547 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 4: Is up? Or Deck on life support? No? Is Leaf 548 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:37,680 on night life support? 549 00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: No? 550 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,079 Speaker 4: They need to write size and their costs just went down, guys, 551 00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:46,200 so they have less costs and if they're smart about 552 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,079 how they did and like Chris was saying, is it 553 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,119 possible that they were so smart at Panini that they 554 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,920 developed kabooms in downtowns and color blasts in advance of 555 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,279 when they would need them, because they are cars that 556 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,279 can stand without licensing and the case hits that people 557 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,640 salivate over. So, yeah, they're going to be around. 558 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know a few people over there. They're they're 559 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,920 they're tenacious, man, They're of all the manufacturers, I think 560 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:17,400 Kanini has a lot of the people who are the 561 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,880 most passionate collectors in that work there, you know. So 562 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:24,200 I think they're gonna keep fighting tooth or nail, and 563 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:28,559 they're fighters, you know. So I remember not not being 564 00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:30,480 a big fan of them coming in. I kind of 565 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,480 felt like they were an Italian company take an American hobby, 566 00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:39,559 you know, and and uh, but you again, I think 567 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,720 it's really interesting to have a hobby linked in UH 568 00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:46,440 and follow some people at at some of these companies, 569 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,079 because you hear some things that you wouldn't hear otherwise, 570 00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:52,640 just about things that they're working on or things that 571 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,200 they're personally excited about. 572 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,079 Speaker 2: UH. 573 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,079 Speaker 3: And and they do not stop signing licensing agreements, you know, 574 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,160 and some of the things may seem very fringe or 575 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:06,279 very out there, you know, like the Winston Cup truck 576 00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:10,079 series they just signed to deal with, But there's there's 577 00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:12,960 going to be collectors for that, and and it does 578 00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:17,480 expand the universe of our hobby, which which isn't a 579 00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:20,559 bad thing at all. So yeah, I think it'll be 580 00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:21,680 interesting to kind of watch. 581 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,799 Speaker 2: What do you think, join. 582 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 6: I don't I agree with kind of both of you. 583 00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:27,759 Speaker 5: I don't think that Pinnin's on life support at all, 584 00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:31,279 at least in the again basketball perspective. The I think 585 00:32:31,319 --> 00:32:36,000 what the advantage to them is that they've established brands 586 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:40,880 that basketball collectors like, things like down Rusk, things like Noir. 587 00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:43,920 I mean, they've they announced their Unlicensed Noir. 588 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:44,799 Speaker 6: I don't know what. 589 00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 5: It'll end up looking like and if people end up 590 00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:50,519 wanting to collect those cards, but at least from the previews, they've. 591 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,279 Speaker 6: Done a good job. Tops When they were doing unlicensed 592 00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:55,880 Basketball a year or two ago, it looked bad. 593 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 5: I mean it was really obviously airbrushed, jopped. It looks 594 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,359 like Panini's done a good job in their previews of 595 00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:07,240 choosing photos. 596 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,839 Speaker 6: That it doesn't make it doesn't. 597 00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 5: Make it where it's really obvious that they're they're photoshopping 598 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,359 out the team logo or whatever. And they again, those 599 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,319 certain brands they have like Flawless and Prism. 600 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,279 Speaker 6: And Noir are well loved in the basketball card world. 601 00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:26,799 Speaker 5: And I think that as long as they design it 602 00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:30,000 well and as long as they can get people in. 603 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 6: Their cards, on card and whatever, I think they'll they'll 604 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,759 have a market for it. 605 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 3: Well, there's another aspect we haven't talked about, and that's 606 00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:44,119 the rapid expansion of AI and with regard to design 607 00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,799 and an other functionality that it brings. 608 00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 4: You know. 609 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,759 Speaker 3: I had this old photograph of my father in law 610 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,680 and his dad in Vietnam, and it's grainy and just 611 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,160 it's cool. 612 00:33:57,319 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: But the quality sucks. 613 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 3: I was talking to someone about restoring it professionally and 614 00:34:03,759 --> 00:34:06,200 they wanted four hundred bucks and I was like, I'll 615 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,400 do it later. And then I started munking around with 616 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,039 Grock and I put that photo in there and said 617 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:16,960 restore it for clarity and sharpness, and it came back 618 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,480 and now I have the best Father's Day gift in 619 00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:23,360 the world. The clarity is incredible. And instead of having 620 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,679 to do a birthday flyer for my wife that I 621 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,039 just did a year ago, I would have done it 622 00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:31,840 on Canva and spent four hours on it. Now I'm 623 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,039 pumping it into chat GPT and telling it what I 624 00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:38,960 need and a beautifully designed flyer comes out. Now, think 625 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,320 about what that's going to do for card manufacturers. And 626 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:46,159 also there's a lot of cool things that can happen 627 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,599 with tops with regard to older imagery and imagery that 628 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,519 might have been damaged and they haven't been able to 629 00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:54,079 use yet, because we get a lot of images that 630 00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:57,320 have been used before, and there's things that I can do. Also, 631 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,280 where my son's not smiling at a photo, I could 632 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,280 say make him smile, and big bang, boom, he's smiling. 633 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,079 So the same Joe DiMaggio photo where we may have 634 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,639 seen it before where he's mad, you know, now he's 635 00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:12,920 smiling at the plant. You know, there's there's so much 636 00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:15,480 that is coming for us as collectors. You know, for 637 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,920 manufacturers it takes about nine months to a year for 638 00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:22,360 products to flush out and get to the market. And 639 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,559 I think what we're going to see is a higher 640 00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:29,119 quality of imagery and a higher quality of design over 641 00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,519 the next few years that might be able to mask 642 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:33,039 some of that non licenseduff. 643 00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 4: Joy. 644 00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that if you look at 645 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,599 certain unlicensed things, I know that. I mean, Tyson Beck 646 00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:43,400 does his collaborations with athletes, and he sells those cards 647 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,199 for a lot of money. 648 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 6: People want those cards. 649 00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 5: I think the fact that there's no team logo, he 650 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,360 just did a Carl Anthony townslan or he just advertised it. 651 00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,440 I think Nick's collectors are still going to go after 652 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,039 a card like that. 653 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 1: So you're saying that, you're thinking we're going to end 654 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,440 up having cards with photos that aren't real photos. 655 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,119 Speaker 3: Absolutely already know that they'll they'll need to get approved 656 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,880 by the leagues in the PA, but yeah, absolutely. 657 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 4: Well, no they will if it's a card that is 658 00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:14,880 ostensibly licensed by the league to play. 659 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:20,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we're going to see art and 660 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:21,719 photos blur. 661 00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: Well, I suppose could use it and then get the 662 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,280 logo stuff automatically removed by the AI for them too, So. 663 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:31,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, it won't feel air brushed. 664 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 5: And there are certainly certain photos that I've seen on 665 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,239 top twenty five twenty six basketball cards where I've questioned 666 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,239 whether they're legitimate photos or generated by AI. 667 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,639 Speaker 3: Now, and the first AI was really wonky, I forget. 668 00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:45,840 I think it was a downtown where the football field 669 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,320 was sideways instead of vertical, and how did that get through? 670 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 2: Quality assurance? But it's it gets better every day as wild. 671 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure you know in the industry, like 672 00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:58,480 that is going to be using the top notch level 673 00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,639 that you know, you see thumbnails all over the place 674 00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:05,320 in the internet space that are clearly AI. But yeah, 675 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,760 the once you get to the high level stuff, it's yeah, 676 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,159 no one will be able to tell the difference. 677 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 4: So, all right. 678 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,119 Speaker 1: About our last topic. Then this one came up in 679 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:19,079 our chat for hobby Hotline where someone had mentioned that 680 00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:22,000 PSA was coming to the Dallas card Show, which is 681 00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:24,920 I think Rich Klein brought it up because that's local 682 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,199 for him and the So then this became the topic 683 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,079 of grading companies even choosing to go to shows. What 684 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,440 goes into the process where they decide where to go, 685 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,119 when to go. You know, with two folks that you know, 686 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,000 doctor Jim, you know for years you were head of 687 00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:47,719 a grading company and Chris integrated into PSA. There like, 688 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,800 what's the decision making process of winning where they go? 689 00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 2: Chris, you want to go first? Yeah, sure, you know. 690 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: Before Natt took over the company, PSA didn't go a 691 00:37:57,039 --> 00:38:00,119 lot of places. You know, they used dealers and and 692 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,639 uh that was a good way that was that was 693 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,679 kind of the easy button, kind of kind of like 694 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,599 breakers is, well, use dealers and they're they're going to 695 00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:10,920 be at all these shows anyway, we got to focus on. Honestly, 696 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,480 one of the reasons why I was I was brought 697 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,800 here is to get out there and and be a 698 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,039 face for PSA out there, because there's when I came there, 699 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,840 there's just a lot of confusion about how does this 700 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,079 even work? And I still answer those questions every day 701 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,800 at events. How do I do this? I've never grated 702 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,599 anything before. These are all very common questions. And one 703 00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,280 of the things that Nat Turner did that was really 704 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,360 smart was invest in technology and and make remove a 705 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,960 lot of the friction for a customer to grade an item. 706 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,719 And now it's I'm not going to do a PSA commercial, 707 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,400 but this stuff is really cool. Where you know, if 708 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,000 I have the p s A app, I can hit 709 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:56,599 one button, scan a card, it comes up, I have 710 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,280 access to the population reports, what it sells in different grades, 711 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,079 and all I have to do is hit grade, you know, 712 00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:07,000 and then enter my credit card. Information and hand it 713 00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:09,880 to someone. And in the beginning when I started there, 714 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,480 there were awful lines for grading services, like crazy people 715 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:18,599 would wait four hours at a show just to drop 716 00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:21,320 something off. And I've always been a big believer like 717 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,159 give the show back to collectors. Don't make them wait 718 00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:27,519 in line for your redemptions. Have a more efficient way 719 00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:30,840 if you're a manufacturer of getting people the product. And 720 00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:34,000 we were able to develop a QR code system, so 721 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,800 instead of people having to print up mountains of forms 722 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,719 and bring them to us, now they just scan a 723 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,480 QR code, we take in the item, confirm what it is, 724 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,480 and off they go to enjoy the show. So for PSA, 725 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,480 and I know for a lot of other grading manufacturers 726 00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:52,320 as well, or grading companies as well, getting in front 727 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,239 of the customer is a really important thing and to 728 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,639 be able to explain the service and walk them through it. 729 00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,440 And for me, I get such enjoyment out of seeing 730 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,079 the light go on people's eyes when they're like, oh, 731 00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:03,880 I get it, or yeah, I just got the email 732 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,039 that you received it here. So I think that a 733 00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:11,119 smart company in this day and age when everything is 734 00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:15,119 moving to chatbots and here's a kiosk that you deal with, 735 00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:17,559 you know, for collecting. People want to talk to a 736 00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:20,840 human being. People want to talk to someone who collects themselves. 737 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,519 People want to talk to people who are passionate about 738 00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:28,320 the industry and who can walk them and guide them 739 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,119 on the right journey for what they want to get done. 740 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,679 And what I tell my staff all the time is 741 00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:36,320 you're going to have to if we're going to be 742 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,159 successful at this, You're going to have to tell people 743 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,880 know some time. You know, when I look at a 744 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,079 card through a loop, I'm not a greater. I always 745 00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:43,800 tell people I'm not a greater, but if I can 746 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,920 see it, the greater is definitely going to see it. 747 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,320 And I'll show them, you know, look through the loop, 748 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,119 hold it close to your eye, close to the card 749 00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:51,960 till it comes into focus, and do you see this 750 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:56,599 corner here? A lot of people don't know to look through, 751 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,480 you know, a magnification like the graters will to see. 752 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,280 So I think that that human connection is so important, 753 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,199 and I'm really happy that we see value in attending 754 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,360 shows like the Dallas Card Show. And it's not just that, 755 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,400 you know, PSA has started doing We did ninety eight 756 00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:20,400 drop off events at hobby shops last year where we're 757 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,400 going to different hobby shops throughout the North America and 758 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,400 taking in submissions, but more than that, answering questions and 759 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,960 guiding people on that right path of the collecting. So 760 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,760 for us, what we look for in an event is, 761 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,960 you know, is it are there going to be a 762 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,880 lot of collectors there? But also it's fun to attend 763 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,760 events that we haven't done. But we were just in 764 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,639 Louisiana for an event and people were so excited that 765 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,599 we were there. So I think it's it's a little 766 00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:52,239 bit of a mix of what's an established show or 767 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,400 an established shop and where haven't we been before where 768 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,519 we can reach a new audience and touch a new community. 769 00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 5: That's great conversation, but I have to jump off in 770 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,039 like two years, so that's great. 771 00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining the show. 772 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me on to talk cards. 773 00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Chris, I'm glad you went first. 774 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 4: I met with Colin the GM over at ud Beckett 775 00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:23,840 a few days ago and we talked about exactly that, 776 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:28,800 about how the BGS brand has been especially strong at 777 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,079 the Dallas Card Show, but it also has done a 778 00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:34,960 lot of shows around the country over the years, and 779 00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:40,960 he was saying that the learnings the process improvements that 780 00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:44,599 have been have really helped p s A to scale, 781 00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:49,440 will be brought are being brought to the Beckett ingestion 782 00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:53,960 process because there were people just waiting super long lines 783 00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:58,719 around the corner for the bgs UH to get their 784 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,199 cards in and Friday at the Dallas card show last month, 785 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,320 and that's you like to have a little bit of 786 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,719 a line, but that's that's really too much. The other 787 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,480 thing I would say is that when we were contemplating 788 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,960 this many years ago and thinking about going to shows, 789 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,000 we never thought of it as a marketing expense. We 790 00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:19,519 thought of it as a profit center going to It's 791 00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:22,159 very expensive to set up there, and we weren't thinking, hey, well, 792 00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:24,519 I hope we can break even. It was no, is 793 00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:28,440 there the demand there because you do charge it, there's 794 00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:32,320 higher rates, especially if you want same day service, and 795 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,880 so is this going to work? And frequently it did. 796 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,960 The crazy thing is sometimes it worked even better if 797 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,239 PSA was there. Also, In other words, when you have 798 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,800 two there at the same time that people come out 799 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,920 with their cards and they're not really playing one to 800 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,440 get off against the other, but they're just saying this 801 00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:54,199 is a major show. PSA is going to be there, 802 00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:57,440 BGS is going to be there. I'm gonna take my cards. 803 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,719 And certainly in the old days, they had certain cards 804 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,280 they took to BGS, certain cars they took to. 805 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:03,760 Speaker 2: P s A. 806 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 4: And you know, when people were talking about how crummy 807 00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:10,400 BGS was doing, it just didn't comport with what you 808 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,199 saw at the shows. Because BGS has always had a niche. 809 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,800 It's always had a certain edge in certain things. They 810 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,199 did not across the board, but shows were what So 811 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,239 it is a marketing situation. You do get marketing benefit 812 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,760 of that, but it was a profit center for us. 813 00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:35,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when I started Doctor Jim, you know, 814 00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:37,960 our lines were so crazy that people would be like, oh, 815 00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:43,559 just take it to Becket. But now now I think, 816 00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:46,000 you know, as we look to give the shows back 817 00:44:46,039 --> 00:44:49,800 and make it take quicker, it's a customer experience effort 818 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,559 for us. And there's a lot of value in in 819 00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:57,000 that because the longer you have a customer, the more 820 00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:01,000 valuable they are to an organization. So for us, over 821 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,280 the last few years in particular, we've really used it 822 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,800 as a customer experience type of opportunity. 823 00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 4: Which which I won't say you've perfected, but certainly you're higher. 824 00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:15,679 You're bringing you over was a giant step in that direction, 825 00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:20,519 and kudos to you. But what the criticism that was 826 00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:24,320 three months ago on this very show about Hey collectors 827 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,880 has taken over and they're going to crush BGS and 828 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,440 and SGC. We're now seeing that that's not what's happening. 829 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:39,559 There's some significant brand distinctions between what SGC is doing, 830 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,719 what BGS is doing, and what PSA is doing. And 831 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,639 not only can they coexist, but they can feed off 832 00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:51,000 each other. I don't think PSA is going to have 833 00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:55,400 a black label anytime soon. They're leaving that alone. SGC 834 00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:59,960 has has real strength in the in the pre war there. 835 00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:04,039 They're leaving that that's not as big a market, and 836 00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:08,599 they haven't exported their they haven't brought in their value 837 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,800 up charge to certainly to BEGS, which would again disturb 838 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,599 the market. This differentiation, which is good. We don't want 839 00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:23,960 to monolith grading experience one size fits all, but a 840 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:30,400 universal submission form was something we talked about that that 841 00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:31,960 would be a step in the right to make it 842 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,239 easy for people to grade and then you know, easy 843 00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:39,440 easier for them to know why it got the grade 844 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:39,840 they got. 845 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 3: We talked, Hey, can we go back to that comment, Sorry, 846 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,159 doctor Jim the comment from Able, because it's a good one. 847 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,000 The national lines at the National, he mentions, we were 848 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,159 able to get them down to about twenty minutes to 849 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,960 an hour at the last National by using a lot 850 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,599 of different queuing systems. But there are digital queuing systems 851 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,519 that work well unless you have one hundred and fifty 852 00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:07,360 thousand people all under one roof, and then these queuing 853 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,800 systems don't work as well because they're sending text messages 854 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,519 to customers letting them know it's your turn in line, 855 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,559 and they don't get them when or they don't get 856 00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:20,360 them in the same speed or expediency when you're out 857 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,079 at somewhere like Disneyland that's much more wide open and 858 00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:27,760 broad and doesn't have that concentration of people. So that's 859 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,639 been a tough one Able that we've been working on, 860 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,519 and one thing that I've found value in that I 861 00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:35,960 think we'll do again this year is events to help 862 00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:40,559 people plan and prep before the national begins. So for 863 00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:42,679 you know, one of the things that bottlenecks some of 864 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,119 these lines are those first timers. So if we could 865 00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:47,400 host some type of first time event or something like 866 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,320 that to help get everyone ready. It helps the line 867 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,000 go a lot quicker. So we'll do things like that, 868 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,079 And then we've been also been doing dealers submissions can 869 00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:56,679 take a little bit. We've been giving them their own 870 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,239 queues and letting them submit a little earlier before before 871 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:00,880 the show. 872 00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 2: Starts, if we can get our booth up and ready. 873 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 3: So the National has a lot of different different ways, 874 00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:12,360 but it's one that lines are always tricky. 875 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,159 Speaker 1: Yet, well back to doctor Beckett's talking about the three 876 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,079 companies all under one roof. As you can see from 877 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:24,480 my back wall, I had a particular preference in grading company, 878 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,559 and I'm a little bitter about the situation because of 879 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,119 like the very topic we're discussing. They have completely just 880 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,519 removed sgc's presence at any show. We even have the 881 00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:43,559 upcoming Strongsville show next weekend that SGC has been going 882 00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:46,360 to for years. Seems like it would be their bread 883 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,079 and butter show to go to, and yet they're not 884 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,400 sending them. So how do I interpret that any other 885 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:57,039 way than they're basically squashing my favorite brand into oblivion. 886 00:48:57,519 --> 00:49:00,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I'm not part of that team, but I 887 00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:04,639 just would say, John, I would I would rise up 888 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,119 and I would gather Crony's and other vintage collectors that 889 00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:14,719 are fans of SGC and say and contact somebody at 890 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,599 Collectors perhaps Chris Carlin, Hey, say, look, we have fifty 891 00:49:19,679 --> 00:49:22,119 guys that are going to be at that show that 892 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,599 want to submit to SGC, and we're going to guarantee 893 00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:28,239 you this kind of submission volume. Can you do that 894 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,920 for us? I bet they could if you knew that. 895 00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:34,000 But you know they're thinking, you know, maybe they're like 896 00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:36,440 I said, they don't want to come as a marketing spense. 897 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,320 They don't need to market to that group. They need 898 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,360 to serve that group. 899 00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And a lot of guys go to that 900 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,960 show and they would bring their high dollar cards that 901 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,000 they don't want to ship, and I'm. 902 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,440 Speaker 4: Saying deal with to them in person. It's too late 903 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,679 for this year, but it's yeah next year. Just say, look, 904 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,559 that was disappointing. What would it take? And like I said, 905 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:03,400 it's it's see Carlin at dot com. 906 00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,360 Speaker 2: Hey, I will say that when you make a lot 907 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,000 of John, that makes. 908 00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:10,320 Speaker 3: One thing that's been really interesting for me on the 909 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,519 latest ride of my career here under with collectors is 910 00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:20,320 they have leadership has kept these companies very separate. So 911 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,679 I have not worked on anything with Beckett. I have 912 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:27,480 not worked on anything with SGC. There is a lot 913 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,159 of sharing of information with regard to operational UH and 914 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,480 grading talent, where they're sharing ideas and concepts that work 915 00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:40,400 really well here. Let's use that over here to make 916 00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:45,320 capacity better, to make things move through quicker, safer, to 917 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:50,559 reduce damages. That type of sharing has happened, But from 918 00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:54,760 a marketing standpoint or event standpoint, I don't work with SGC, 919 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,960 or or OR or BGS. They operate on their own. 920 00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,360 And one of the things I know that both of 921 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,920 those companies of leadership on SGC and Beckett in particular 922 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,239 are working to improve the operational efficiencies first before they 923 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,079 get to do the fun stuff, if that makes sense. 924 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,199 So you have to make sure you're One thing that 925 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,599 I was told by someone I value very much, the 926 00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:25,320 former CEO OH of Collectors, Mike West out of Dallas, 927 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,440 and he has retired, but I came over here with 928 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,719 all these fun ideas of things I wanted to do, 929 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,639 and he was very disciplined with me and said, Chris, 930 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,519 you've got to get your blocking and tackling down first 931 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:40,079 before you can work on these trick plays and this 932 00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:43,199 fun stuff. And it's right, you have to have your 933 00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:45,519 house in order before you can do some of these 934 00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:48,559 other things. And I think that's where again I'm not 935 00:51:48,599 --> 00:51:52,280 working with SGC or BGS, but from what I've learned 936 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,199 of the culture of collectors is let's get things humming 937 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:57,760 before we do some of these other. 938 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,239 Speaker 1: I mean, as the bitter SGC fan, I see it 939 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:08,320 as the sharing was the SGC shared their grads into 940 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,360 the neighboring suite that now says PSA, And now I 941 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:17,280 have less people available to actually have good turnaround times, 942 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,800 and you know, maybe the quality is not even there 943 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,800 at the same place anymore either. 944 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,079 Speaker 4: So yeah, but SGC used to have the best turnaround 945 00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:30,599 times in the industry. Yeah, and so that's gone. They're 946 00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:34,960 going to now be consistent with BGS, which is slow now, 947 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,079 and PSA, which is slow now. 948 00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:40,760 Speaker 3: Again, we're getting back to the fact that everyone's missing 949 00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:44,840 is demand for grading services has gone through the roof. 950 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,280 PSA does not want to charge thirty two dollars for 951 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,480 a card to get greaded. We do not, but we 952 00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:54,840 have to right now is slow, the capacity slow the 953 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,960 demand of what's coming through and the company is scale 954 00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:04,159 like I can't believe again, going from grading forty thousand 955 00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:06,960 cards four years ago to ninety thousand to one hundred 956 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,840 thousand today. There's facilities that are opening across the world 957 00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:15,760 to address the globalization of the hobby. So there's facilities 958 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,320 coming on in Germany, more being done in Europe in particular, 959 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,760 but in China and Japan. We have some of the 960 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,360 best talent, I think in the grading business with Brad 961 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,239 Hartland and Canada and things like that. So I think 962 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,719 a lot of these capacity issues will be addressed over 963 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,400 the next year. And there's something that no one's really 964 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,920 been talking about and something that could slow things down 965 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,360 a lot in this hobby and enforce a bit of 966 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,880 a correction, and that's a labor dispute. In baseball, labor disputes, 967 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,079 they are one of the worst things that can happen 968 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:58,400 for the hobby from a manufacturer standpoint. Jason Masher, the 969 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,800 president of Upper deck Is, is famous at saying we're 970 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,000 as nimble as an oil tanker when it comes to 971 00:54:04,039 --> 00:54:06,440 that stuff. You know, you commit to these deals with 972 00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,400 the leagues, and you commit to make a certain amount 973 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,320 of product, and when something like that happens, you can't 974 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,800 steer away from it. And from all I'm seeing right 975 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,599 now with regard to baseball is the owners do not 976 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,800 want a the players do not want a salary cap. 977 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,039 The owners do, and it's not looking good for baseball 978 00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:32,840 next season. That could cause a real significant I mean 979 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,239 something from COVID. We were talking about how it made 980 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,760 COVID made everything better for the hobby with regard to 981 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,280 demand and interest and excitement. This would be the first 982 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,519 real test if there is any type of labor disputing. 983 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,559 Speaker 4: Well, the player Association and the properties are sitting at 984 00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:52,360 the same table with fanatics trying to figure out how 985 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,199 they can make money in that business together, so maybe 986 00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,559 there'll be some cooperation that Maybe it's the tail wagging 987 00:54:59,599 --> 00:54:59,920 the dog. 988 00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: But all right, we are hitting right around an hour, 989 00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:06,800 so I think it's time to wrap things up. What's 990 00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:11,559 future future plans for you, guys, Chris, you want to 991 00:55:11,559 --> 00:55:12,039 go first? 992 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm heading to the TOPS conference on Monday, 993 00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:19,320 excited to see what's what's coming in the way of 994 00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:23,440 football there. And then after that I'm going to be 995 00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:26,960 out at some of the PSA submission centers in hobby shops. 996 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,480 So I'll be going to Mojo Breaks in Santa Clara 997 00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:35,639 in two weeks, then out to cards HQ and in 998 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,760 Georgia a couple weeks after that, and then out at 999 00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:42,960 David Adams in New York. So excited to see collectors 1000 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,119 out at those events, and and of course be at 1001 00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:48,599 the Dallas Card Show and get to hang with my 1002 00:55:48,639 --> 00:55:49,599 main man, doctor Jim. 1003 00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,119 Speaker 2: So excited for all of those. 1004 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,480 Speaker 1: Awesome all right, how about you and doctor Beckett? 1005 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,679 Speaker 4: Well, Chris, even though I'm really excited about seeing you 1006 00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,960 at the Dallas Show in May, I might be gone. 1007 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,960 I'm a fifty to fifty on going to the Toronto Expo. 1008 00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:05,800 Speaker 2: I have of years. 1009 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,159 Speaker 4: I don't know if you're going to be at that one. 1010 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:11,840 Sounds like your your your schedule is full that week. 1011 00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:14,320 I am. I have been wanting to do that for 1012 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,880 a number of years, and I'm thinking, why am I waiting? 1013 00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:20,320 Speaker 3: So, doctor Jim, there's so many dolls with your name 1014 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:20,960 on it there. 1015 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,159 Speaker 4: I don't know if there's enough hours in the day. 1016 00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,639 That's the only thing. So but I have that to 1017 00:56:27,679 --> 00:56:30,239 look forward to. And John, what do you what do 1018 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,519 you you're bummed out about Strongsville and strong dependence. 1019 00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:38,519 Speaker 1: I know, I I I am ecstatic about going to 1020 00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:42,920 see it. I mean, we expect a massive showing from 1021 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,760 our YouTube vintage community and I'm looking forward to seeing 1022 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,039 a lot of people again, a lot of people for 1023 00:56:49,079 --> 00:56:53,000 the first time, and once again. UH four Collectors is 1024 00:56:53,079 --> 00:56:56,840 hosting a trade night there on Saturday night. That should 1025 00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,679 be a ton of fun. We're going to be in 1026 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,199 the Holiday Inn Ballroom, which is actually the official hotel 1027 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,719 for the dealers, so we're expecting really good attendance and 1028 00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:13,239 you know, it's free to get in and we'll be 1029 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,480 having pizza. We got sponsors paying the paying the way 1030 00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:21,679 for us. Thank you to Collector Investor Auctions and Howard 1031 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,199 Chesser a few of my favorite things for sponsoring that 1032 00:57:25,239 --> 00:57:29,280 event for us. But yeah, thank you guys for a 1033 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,360 great show. Thank you to the chat uh mister Keating, 1034 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,159 your wit and wisdom was pervasive throughout the show. We 1035 00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:40,480 would love to have you as a call in guest 1036 00:57:40,519 --> 00:57:43,920 at any point when you are available. It would be 1037 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:48,880 interesting for sure. But yeah, thank you everyone to tuned 1038 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,719 in and we will see you next time on hobby Hotline. 1039 00:57:51,719 --> 00:58:05,440 Thanks everyone, take care, Thanks Jean, Thanks. 1040 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,199 Speaker 6: Thank you for listening to this episode of Hobby Hotline. 1041 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,360 Just want to remind everyone we are a live show 1042 00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:12,800 every Saturday morning, eleven am eastern eight am Pacific on 1043 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,719 the four Collectors channel on YouTube. That's the number four, 1044 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,320 the word Collector's channel on YouTube. We hope to see 1045 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,760 many of you live on a future Saturday. 1046 00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:28,840 Speaker 1: We have a great interactive chat room and we always 1047 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,880 provide a link for anyone that wants to come on 1048 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,360 the show and chop it up with us. 1049 00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,519 Speaker 4: So that's a reminder. 1050 00:58:34,599 --> 00:58:40,039 Speaker 6: Every Saturday, eleven am eastern eight am Pacific only four 1051 00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:42,000 Collectors channel on YouTube. 1052 00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:44,320 Speaker 4: Hope to see you on the show.