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<v Speaker 1>This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions

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<v Speaker 1>of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.

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<v Speaker 1>Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, this is Tanya. Hi this is Shannon, and we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi Shannon, Hey girl, how you doing. I'm doing good.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you? Ah? Pretty good?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we're always gonna start off with the weather. We're

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<v Speaker 3>not always gonna but you know when it's changing or

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<v Speaker 3>it's cold, And today was a nice rainy day here

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<v Speaker 3>I Metro Detroit.

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<v Speaker 1>Huh yeah, it was cold and rainy.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to just stay in bed all day.

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<v Speaker 3>I have no hot coco in the house, so that's

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<v Speaker 3>going on the grocery list.

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<v Speaker 2>How about you, how was your day? It was busy

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<v Speaker 2>in my new job, so it's just good. I'm enjoying it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad it was.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a good move, so I enjoyed my new job.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was good. It was a good Wednesday. Is

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<v Speaker 2>that what today is? Is? Today? And Wednesday? Today is Thursday?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, yeah, you're right, it is Thursday.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh. I wasn't even fucking around. I really

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<v Speaker 3>thought it was Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm like, is it Yeah, it's Thursday girl.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, all right, I need some strike, So would

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<v Speaker 3>you bring us today?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I have a really exciting episode.

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<v Speaker 1>This was a case that was cold for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>so thanks to DNA evidence, it eventually helped.

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<v Speaker 2>So spoiler alert.

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<v Speaker 1>And before we start, I I'm going to remind everyone

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<v Speaker 1>hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever you're listening to.

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<v Speaker 1>And this case originated in the eighties. So it's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>June eighteenth, nineteen eighty five, and a man named Jerry

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<v Speaker 1>Estes was woken up by pounding on the door to

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<v Speaker 1>his office after a busy Monday. He'd stayed up late

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<v Speaker 1>socializing and drinking beer after hours with some employees, and

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<v Speaker 1>he fell asleep at the sale Barn, which was his

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<v Speaker 1>cattle auction house and cafe in Nixa, Missouri. Now I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's Nixa and Ixa, So people in Missouri will

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<v Speaker 1>probably write and tell me that I said it wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>It's probably like some fancy pronunciation, but that's what I'm going.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, come for me, please, Missura. Please.

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<v Speaker 1>I am not from Missouri and I have no idea

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<v Speaker 1>how it's pronounced. Well, and you know, people will be like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>she could have looked it up, but okay I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I did everyone, Okay I didn't. I didn't put it

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<v Speaker 2>through Google translation. Sorry pronounced that's sorry.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember when I was wearing at the police station,

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<v Speaker 3>Georgia called and they're from Macon, Macon, Georgia, and so

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<v Speaker 3>they had pronounced Macomb, may Comb.

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<v Speaker 2>Macom, Yeah, Malcolm.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeahcom was like, oh adorable.

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<v Speaker 2>No it's Macomb.

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<v Speaker 3>We say it boring, but go up exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jerry owns this cattle auction house in this cafe.

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<v Speaker 1>So he opens the door to his office. He's half dressed.

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<v Speaker 1>His cook, Alice, was standing in front of him and

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<v Speaker 1>she was just talking excitedly, and behind her he could

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<v Speaker 1>see one of his servers named Dana, and Dana was distraught.

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<v Speaker 1>After Alice took a deep breath and slowed down, Jerry

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<v Speaker 1>was able to understand what she was so excited about.

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<v Speaker 1>Alice and Dana had spotted a black Camaro with the

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<v Speaker 1>license plate that was Jackie Ja c KI dash one

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<v Speaker 1>abandoned on the side of Highway one sixty with the

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<v Speaker 1>driver's side door open, and they all knew exactly whose

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<v Speaker 1>car this was. One of the other servers at the

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<v Speaker 1>Sailbarn Cafe named Jackie Johns had purchased her dream car

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<v Speaker 1>last year, which was the black hardtop Camaro with red

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<v Speaker 1>leather interior and.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeh sweet right Camaros in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that was a status symbol. Yes or sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I love this. It's her dream.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jerry leaves to investigate, and he drives to the

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<v Speaker 1>spot the women had described, and he saw the Camaro

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<v Speaker 1>parked on the shoulder of the road and it was

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<v Speaker 1>pointed as if the driver was.

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<v Speaker 2>Headed away from the auction house.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry turned on the headlights of his truck like he

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<v Speaker 1>pointed them at the Camaro, and he walked up to

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<v Speaker 1>the car and he looked inside. He saw an open

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<v Speaker 1>purse on the floor of the passenger side seat that

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<v Speaker 1>belonged to Jackie. There was still money in it visible

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<v Speaker 1>from where he was standing. The keys to the vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>were still in the ignition. There were some scattered items

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<v Speaker 1>like typical like a twenty year old girl and like

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<v Speaker 1>for example, there were empty cans of Aquinet hairspray.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember Aquinet? Yes? I do?

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<v Speaker 3>And my time capt for night my graduating year of

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight, yes, loved aquinet right lived on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, But it was the blood. The blood was everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>mixed with strands of long, dark hair that made Jerry's

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<v Speaker 1>stomach drop.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>The steering wheel was bent, the driver's side headrest was

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<v Speaker 1>nearly snapped off, and Jerry figured there had been just

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<v Speaker 1>quite the struggle inside this car. Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>He investigates a little.

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<v Speaker 1>Further, and he found blood mixed with dirt and dried

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<v Speaker 1>leaves across the dark red leather of the back seat.

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<v Speaker 1>On the floor, he saw what looked like a pair

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<v Speaker 1>of jeans. The legs of the pants were rolled up,

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<v Speaker 1>with a pair of women's underwear caught in one of them.

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<v Speaker 1>There was also a blood smeared bra. He didn't see

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<v Speaker 1>a body, but he feared that Jackie was dead. Jerry

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<v Speaker 1>was seen enough at this point. He quickly drove the

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<v Speaker 1>two miles back to the Sailbarn to call the Sheriff's office,

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<v Speaker 1>where help was dispatched, and then he went back to

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<v Speaker 1>the Camaro to wait for the police to arrive. The

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<v Speaker 1>Missouri Highway Patrol officers and Christian County Sheriff Dwight McNeil

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<v Speaker 1>pulled up and looked inside the vehicle. And they were

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<v Speaker 1>shining their flashlights. They opened the trunk, a portion of

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<v Speaker 1>which had been white down that they noticed, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was no body inside, but they did find a spare tire,

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<v Speaker 1>a tire iron, and various items of clothing. Looking further

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<v Speaker 1>into the trunk, Sheriff McNeil leaning down and with a

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<v Speaker 1>that he had picked up, he lifted the bumper jack

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<v Speaker 1>from the tire and the rear wall of the trunk.

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<v Speaker 1>Hair could be seen on the lip of the jack

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<v Speaker 1>and blood. So after this, Jerry returned to his frantic

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<v Speaker 1>employees and reported what they already knew. Something bad had

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<v Speaker 1>happened to Jackie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Jackie John's was twenty years old, working as a server

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<v Speaker 1>at Jerry's Sale Barn cafe and part time at the

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<v Speaker 1>kmart customer service counter like the local Kmart. Right, the

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<v Speaker 1>former cheerleader and prom queen lived with her parents in

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<v Speaker 1>a trailer in the small Missouri town of Nixa. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm probably saying it wrong. Anixa was a really small town.

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<v Speaker 1>There was population there was less than two thousand people.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is tiny. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Socializing in the small town meant hanging out in the

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<v Speaker 1>parking lot of local seven to eleven. That was the

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<v Speaker 1>hot spot, right, and that seven eleven happened to carry

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<v Speaker 1>that aquinet that Jackie had become obsessed with.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a beautiful girl and she worked hard to

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<v Speaker 1>look good and the summer before she'd even become the

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<v Speaker 1>Sucker Day Queen at the Nexa Sucer Day Festival.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, small town girl Camaro's She's had in places, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a good girl at heart, but she did

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<v Speaker 1>have a bit of a wild side that she had

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<v Speaker 1>a fake id. She occasionally used to buy you a

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<v Speaker 1>six pack here and there. Another member of the community

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<v Speaker 1>was a guy named Gerald Carnahan, and at this point

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<v Speaker 1>in the story he's in his late twenties. The Carnahan

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<v Speaker 1>family was rumored to be the wealthiest in town. Jerry's father, Garnet,

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<v Speaker 1>founded the Springfield Aluminum Company, making fence parts, and eventually

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<v Speaker 1>that company went on to supply aluminum casings to many

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<v Speaker 1>industries throughout the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, I think I do know that name Springfield. Actually, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I think they are still a big name in fencing.

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<v Speaker 3>How I'll have to You know, you just don't know

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<v Speaker 3>what's seeping in or staying right when you notice stuff

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<v Speaker 3>as you're driving right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry worked for his family's company and so hit Jackie

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<v Speaker 1>for a short time, but it's not believed that their

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<v Speaker 1>paths crossed until Jackie began waiting tables at the Sailbarn Cafe.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Jerry would frequent.

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<v Speaker 1>The restaurant often, and all the servers thought he was

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<v Speaker 1>just weird. He would sit in their section, never speak,

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<v Speaker 1>and just stare at them with what they said was

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<v Speaker 1>a faint mocking smile. He would always try to sit

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<v Speaker 1>in Jackie's section, but whenever he was placed in the

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<v Speaker 1>area of another server, he would just be rude and.

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<v Speaker 2>Misbehave to that server.

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<v Speaker 1>At this time, Jerry was married to an older one

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<v Speaker 1>whose name was Pat Collins, and he had a stepdaughter, Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>who was nineteen at the time, so pass a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit older than Jerry. I'm figuring she's got to be

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<v Speaker 1>like ten years older.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm you know, right.

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<v Speaker 1>The Carnahan home was only half a mile away from

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<v Speaker 1>the trailer where Jackie lived with her parents, and they

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<v Speaker 1>lived at the end of a long road called Carnahan Way.

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<v Speaker 2>So just to give you an idea this fall, they

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<v Speaker 2>named their own road.

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<v Speaker 1>After the crime scene photos were taken. Sheriff McNeil had

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<v Speaker 1>the Camaro toad to Ozark because this is near.

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<v Speaker 2>Ozark, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So following the tow truck out of Nixon, Sheriff McNeil

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<v Speaker 1>radioed in to put together a search party. Newscasters took

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<v Speaker 1>Jackie's disappearance, you know, to the TV. Hundreds of people

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<v Speaker 1>showed up to search for the missing woman or a

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<v Speaker 1>volunteer at the Sheriff's office, Jerry asked us to groups

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<v Speaker 1>out on horseback, and helicopters and private planes flew over

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<v Speaker 1>to see if they could find any clues from the sky.

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<v Speaker 1>The morning of the fourth day, after Jakie's car had

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<v Speaker 1>been found, some fishermen called into the Christian County Sheriff's

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<v Speaker 1>office saying they had spotted a body of a naked

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<v Speaker 1>woman floating in the weeds near the southern end of

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<v Speaker 1>Lake Springfield, which and where they saw her was about

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<v Speaker 1>seventy five yards from the shore in a few feet

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<v Speaker 1>of water. Sergeant Tom Martin and Sheriff McNeil took a

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<v Speaker 1>canoe out to a boat launch. Both men were weary

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<v Speaker 1>of making the discovery in the view of the three

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<v Speaker 1>teams of newscasters that had followed them. Yeah, seconds after

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<v Speaker 1>launching the boat, they saw something floating on the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>They paddled just a little further and they could clearly

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<v Speaker 1>make out the body of a woman with dark hair,

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<v Speaker 1>floating face down. After recovering the remains from the water,

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<v Speaker 1>they were able to flip her over and they recognized

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<v Speaker 1>the face of Jackie John's. The unusually cool water had

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<v Speaker 1>a louder body to be well preserved, but they easily

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<v Speaker 1>saw a gaping hole in her right temple. That was

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<v Speaker 1>probably the injury that ended her life. Jackie's autopsy noted

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<v Speaker 1>facial smelling lacerations to the vaginal area she had been raped.

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<v Speaker 1>Her eyelids, lips, nos chin all had lacerations. There was

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<v Speaker 1>bruising on both arms, legs, and her chest. There were

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<v Speaker 1>four deep cuts near her right ear. But she clearly

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<v Speaker 1>died from the skull fracture caused by a very heavy

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<v Speaker 1>object which made a deep hole in her right temple.

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<v Speaker 1>They determined that the killer had beat her unconscious, thrown

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<v Speaker 1>her to the ground, and clubbed her with the bumperjack

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<v Speaker 1>from her car, and the way that he swung it

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00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.559
<v Speaker 1>was like a side swing, like how you do a

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<v Speaker 1>golf club.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Oh my gosh. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The sheriff began a series of interviews with her family

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<v Speaker 1>and friends, and that took weeks. The police had found

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<v Speaker 1>a partial fingerprint on one of the Camaro's dome lights.

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<v Speaker 1>Hair and blood samples were collected from the car's floor

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<v Speaker 1>in seats from Jackie's body, They had collected blood, stomach contents,

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<v Speaker 1>hair from her head, pubic hair, and semen from vaginal spobs.

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<v Speaker 1>There were no suspects at this time, but on June

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<v Speaker 1>twenty third, nineteen eighty five, a male caller had called

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<v Speaker 1>the Christian County Crime Stoppers and from that log he said, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want my name used, don't trace this. I

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<v Speaker 1>got information it's not that girl from the lake. I

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<v Speaker 1>saw someone I know on the same night the paper

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<v Speaker 1>said she disappeared. It was at the seven eleven. Jerry Carnahan.

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<v Speaker 1>He was in his old Chevy truck parked in their

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<v Speaker 1>lot when that girl went its side. He just sat

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<v Speaker 1>there with his lights out. The bastard was watching for

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<v Speaker 1>that girl. That's a fact. You need to check it out.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want the reward end quote, Oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>he's an angel. Yeah, right, whoever that was?

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<v Speaker 3>I know.

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<v Speaker 1>The following day, Monday, June twenty fourth, Jerry Carnahan arrived

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<v Speaker 1>for questioning at the Sheriff's office. The anonymous phone call

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00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>had been corroborated by another witness, and Jerry was turning

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00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>out to look like the prime suspect. Even though Jerry

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00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.879
<v Speaker 1>was the son of the richest man in the town.

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<v Speaker 1>He enjoyed driving a nineteen sixty one Chevrolet Apache pickup

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<v Speaker 1>with a bad muffler. When the caller mentioned the old

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00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Chevy truck. Sheriff McNeil had run a search through vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>registrations in the area and found only two vehicles of

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00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:59.879
<v Speaker 1>that same color, make and model registered in southwestern Missouri. Wow,

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00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.279
<v Speaker 1>so there wasn't a lot too. The sheriff also ran

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00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.840
<v Speaker 1>a background track and only found a few traffic tickets

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00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:10.799
<v Speaker 1>in one drunk driving charge in Jerry's past. When he

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00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>pulled up for the interview, Jerry had that faint, amused

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00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.080
<v Speaker 1>smile that unnerved the servers at the Sailbarn on his face,

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<v Speaker 1>and he seemed to know that his father's money and

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00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.720
<v Speaker 1>influence would get him out of any trouble that he

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00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:29.360
<v Speaker 1>possibly could be in. A quick once over showed Sheriff

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00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:34.639
<v Speaker 1>McNeil that Jerry's knuckles were skinned in red. Sheriff McNeil

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00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.600
<v Speaker 1>told Jerry that he'd received a tip about his truck

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<v Speaker 1>being parked at the seven eleven. He also told Jerry

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00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.399
<v Speaker 1>that three people said they saw the truck backed up

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<v Speaker 1>looking toward the seven eleven. Jerry calmly and steadily denied

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<v Speaker 1>that his truck was there. When asked if someone may

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00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.360
<v Speaker 1>have borrowed his truck and taken it there, he said no.

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<v Speaker 1>His alibi for that night was he'd spent most of

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<v Speaker 1>Monday night with his stepdaughter Sarah. The two worked together

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<v Speaker 1>at the aluminum factory and had gone out with mutual coworkers.

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<v Speaker 1>At the end of the day, they went to the

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<v Speaker 1>Repair Shop, which is a restaurant in Springfield. He had

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00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.799
<v Speaker 1>two beers, Sarah had a soda. They ate some tacos.

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<v Speaker 1>After they ate, they drove home and Sarah went to

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<v Speaker 1>kmart to buy a curling iron. He said Sarah and

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00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:24.639
<v Speaker 1>Jackie were friends and Sarah had hoped Jackie was working

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<v Speaker 1>that night, but she wasn't scheduled that day like at

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00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:31.519
<v Speaker 1>the kmart. Right while Sarah was at the kmart, Jerry

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00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.559
<v Speaker 1>went to the Varra Warehouse, which was a storage business

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00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>of his that was under renovation. Two of his friends

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00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.279
<v Speaker 1>were there building shelves. He brought beer and they chatted

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00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.039
<v Speaker 1>for about thirty minutes before he went home and watched

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00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:49.919
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson with

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00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.519
<v Speaker 1>Sarah before they went to bed in their separate rooms.

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<v Speaker 1>His wife, Pat was at Lake of the Ozarks for

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00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>training for her job. During the interview, he innocently stayed,

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00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to think why somebody would think, you know

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00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.559
<v Speaker 1>that my truck was up there behind the seven eleven.

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00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Sheriff Miniald replied, quote, apparently this person knows you, he

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00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:12.960
<v Speaker 1>knows you and your truck and said it was you

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00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.319
<v Speaker 1>in your truck. We have other witnesses too, who didn't

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00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:16.960
<v Speaker 1>say it.

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00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Looked like you. They said it was you. Nice going on.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry said he knew Jackie from when she worked at

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00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.319
<v Speaker 1>the factory and from being a server at the sailbarn.

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00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.920
<v Speaker 1>He said he didn't know anything about her disappearance. When

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00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.319
<v Speaker 1>asked about the bloody knuckles, he said he'd played several

298
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:40.519
<v Speaker 1>volleyball games the day before. He was an avid volleyball player.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, mm hmm.

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00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.359
<v Speaker 1>They're like, okay, So they took fingerprints and he agreed

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00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.440
<v Speaker 1>that he'd take a polygraph before he walked back out

302
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.039
<v Speaker 1>to his truck and drove home. The polygraph was scheduled

303
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.799
<v Speaker 1>for the next day, but was canceled after Jerry's father, Garnet,

304
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.559
<v Speaker 1>investigated the reliability of the tests and didn't like what

305
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.920
<v Speaker 1>he found, So you canna investigate in nineteen eighty five,

306
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.519
<v Speaker 1>he didn't go on the internet.

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00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, right, nineteen eighty five. Yeah.

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00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.440
<v Speaker 3>His son came home and he was like, are you

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00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.000
<v Speaker 3>out of your fucking mind? Yeah, you're not going to

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00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:19.279
<v Speaker 3>take a lie detector test exactly, and just the cockiness

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00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.039
<v Speaker 3>of yeah, I'll take it.

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00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:22.079
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

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00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, there's no internet to.

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00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:30.559
<v Speaker 3>Look up how to beat a light detector test, yeah, exactly.

315
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.480
<v Speaker 2>So stupid, stupid.

316
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.319
<v Speaker 1>The best the police could tell was that Jackie had

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00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:39.279
<v Speaker 1>gone to the seven eleven to buy hairspray and cigarettes

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00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.720
<v Speaker 1>around eleven pm, you know, plus or minus ten minutes.

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00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.920
<v Speaker 1>This has put Jerry's truck there around that time too.

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00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.200
<v Speaker 1>The officers decided they needed to wait to get more

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00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:55.720
<v Speaker 1>information before they interviewed Jerry's alibi witness, his stepdaughter Sarah,

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00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.240
<v Speaker 1>but they would go ahead with an interview with his wife, Pat.

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00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Pat was the offensive and clearly aligned herself with her husband, saying, quote,

324
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.680
<v Speaker 1>if he's saying it wasn't him, I believe him.

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00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:06.480
<v Speaker 2>End quote.

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00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.720
<v Speaker 1>When asked about the state of her marriage, she denied

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00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.640
<v Speaker 1>any problems. When asked about her daughter, she defended Sarah,

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00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>reminding them that she was a college student with good grades.

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00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.640
<v Speaker 1>She said Jerry hadn't left until after ten pm. Then

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00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.799
<v Speaker 1>you know she believed her right. After only a few minutes,

331
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.440
<v Speaker 1>the interview was over and.

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00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Pat walked out.

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00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.119
<v Speaker 1>When the police did get a chance to interview Sarah,

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00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.640
<v Speaker 1>she corroborated most of her stepfather's story. However, she didn't

335
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.119
<v Speaker 1>state that he'd gone to the Vera warehouse after they

336
00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.839
<v Speaker 1>got home for dinner, so this discrepancy was noted by

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00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:47.680
<v Speaker 1>the officers right By the fall of nineteen eighty five,

338
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.839
<v Speaker 1>more than one hundred and fifty interviews had taken place.

339
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Friends and former boyfriends were called in, Transcripts of interviews

340
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.799
<v Speaker 1>were studied and details were checked out. There was still

341
00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.079
<v Speaker 1>no z one at the top of the list, except

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00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.640
<v Speaker 1>for Jerry Carnahan. In October nineteen eighty five, Sheriff McNeil

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00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:10.720
<v Speaker 1>received information through sources that Jerry was planning a trip

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00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:15.519
<v Speaker 1>to Taiwan. Sheriff McNeil knew that the family's aluminum company

345
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.119
<v Speaker 1>did business in Taiwan due to the cheap scrap aluminum

346
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.880
<v Speaker 1>they have. He also knew that Taiwan didn't have any

347
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:28.480
<v Speaker 1>extradition treaty with the US. OH he believed his main

348
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>suspect was going to go on the run. Sure On

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00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.519
<v Speaker 1>October thirty, first sources told Sheriff McNeil that Jerry was

350
00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>on his way to Los Angeles to board a plane

351
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.640
<v Speaker 1>to Asia. Contacting the prosecutor, he inquired if there was

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00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.039
<v Speaker 1>anything that could be done that day to arrest him

353
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.599
<v Speaker 1>and keep him from that plane.

354
00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Right.

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00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.599
<v Speaker 1>They decided to use the three witnesses that swore Jerry

356
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.359
<v Speaker 1>and his pickup truck were behind the seven eleven that night,

357
00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.720
<v Speaker 1>which meant that Jerry was lying when he claimed he wasn't.

358
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.359
<v Speaker 1>The prosecutor said, they would say it was technically tampering

359
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.680
<v Speaker 1>with evidence, like that's what they're going to bring it

360
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.000
<v Speaker 1>as bring him in under sync that he was tampering

361
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>with evidence, Okay, even though it might get laughed out

362
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.680
<v Speaker 1>of court if a judge signed that order, their suspect

363
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be able to leave the country.

364
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Once it was.

365
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Signed, Sheriff McNeil immediately called the LAPD to ask that

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry Carnahan be arrested at the airport, and the warrant

367
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:29.680
<v Speaker 1>was faxed. Jerry Carnahan had already boarded a plane, which

368
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.000
<v Speaker 1>meant local cops couldn't go on the plane to remove him,

369
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.319
<v Speaker 1>so the FBI sent two agents racing to the airport

370
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to remove him from the plane. I didn't know this,

371
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.799
<v Speaker 1>I know, I didn't know it either. I guess maybe

372
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.640
<v Speaker 1>the airplane is federal jurisdiction now I know.

373
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh maybe because oh it's going out of the country.

374
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because like when you see like terrible passengers being

375
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.920
<v Speaker 3>escorted off, I think they are low or.

376
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Their security or their maybe airport police.

377
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.119
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I didn't know it was that Feds that are

378
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:12.359
<v Speaker 3>coming to right to grab spitters and yellers off the plane.

379
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.799
<v Speaker 1>For agents, Like you know, they're like, really got some

380
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.279
<v Speaker 1>asshole on a plane.

381
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:24.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, fucker, God damn it. Everyone's got a d board.

382
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:28.079
<v Speaker 3>Come on, everybody, we can do better. Let's do fucking.

383
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.839
<v Speaker 1>Better exactly, So really throw a wrench in my trip

384
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.599
<v Speaker 1>to CanCon.

385
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:37.279
<v Speaker 3>Come on, don't we all want to be with our families. Yeah, gosh,

386
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:39.119
<v Speaker 3>Now I gotta punch you in the throat.

387
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:42.759
<v Speaker 2>So we can get out of here.

388
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.240
<v Speaker 1>So the FBI ends up getting him, and Jerry was

389
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.400
<v Speaker 1>held at the Men's Central Jail for Los Angeles County,

390
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 1>which you know is one of the largest and toughest

391
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:59.559
<v Speaker 1>jails in the country, until Sheriff McNeil and his deputy

392
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:01.799
<v Speaker 1>were able to pick him up eight days later.

393
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he was there for a little while, Yeah, getting ready.

394
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.319
<v Speaker 1>Once he arrived back in Missouri, he was placed in

395
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.599
<v Speaker 1>the Green County Jail in Springfield, and his family quickly

396
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.880
<v Speaker 1>paid seventy five thousand dollars to get him out.

397
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:23.519
<v Speaker 3>Seventy five thousand dollars in the eighties, fash so just

398
00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.640
<v Speaker 3>times that by what eight nine ten, Right.

399
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a lot of money. It's it was like

400
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>three hundred thousand dollars to day, no kidding.

401
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:37.839
<v Speaker 1>In mid December nineteen eighty five, a grand jury convened

402
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.400
<v Speaker 1>and on January twenty third, nineteen eighty six, they returned

403
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.519
<v Speaker 1>an indictment against Jerry Carnahan for the evidence tampering charge,

404
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:50.200
<v Speaker 1>requiring another arrest arraignment and bail proceeding. In Missouri, the

405
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>state law required after a formal indictment is done for

406
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.759
<v Speaker 1>him to be arrested again for the same charge and

407
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 1>to be fingerprinted photographed, but the same seventy five thousand

408
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.799
<v Speaker 1>dollars bond could be used to cover his bail. It's

409
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>just I don't know. That seems odd to me, but

410
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.759
<v Speaker 1>that's what their law is, right. This arrest was well

411
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.039
<v Speaker 1>documented and the local television station and radio stations took note.

412
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.839
<v Speaker 1>A search warrant authorized the police to take hair and

413
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:20.119
<v Speaker 1>blood samples. He was sat down for questioning when suddenly

414
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.839
<v Speaker 1>he flung himself on the floor of a small room,

415
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.319
<v Speaker 1>where he screamed, moaned, and sobbed. He was wheezing and

416
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.160
<v Speaker 1>behaved as if he were choking.

417
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.720
<v Speaker 2>The men in the room, throwing all of it at

418
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.400
<v Speaker 2>the fan. Motherfucker.

419
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm gonna start having culsion and I start drooling

420
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.480
<v Speaker 3>at my mouth. I could pull some shit out of

421
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.440
<v Speaker 3>my hands, you know what. You know, he's desperate. He

422
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.680
<v Speaker 3>just about eight days. It's different to be a big

423
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 3>fish in a small pond of Missouri than La County.

424
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's a bit humbling.

425
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking, so the authorities are like, look, we're going

426
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.640
<v Speaker 1>to get these blood and hair samples from you, whether

427
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:07.000
<v Speaker 1>you're going to cooperate or.

428
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Not with the theatrics. Yeah, with the theatrics exactly.

429
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Without acknowledging this morning, Jerry was lifted to his feet

430
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 1>and stood against the wall while samples were taken. A

431
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.119
<v Speaker 1>male technician approached him with late text gloves on, and

432
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.920
<v Speaker 1>he told Jerry to take down his pants. Shocked, he

433
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.880
<v Speaker 1>hesitated for a second, but Jerry eventually pulled his pants

434
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.599
<v Speaker 1>down to his knees so the technician could get pubic

435
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>hair samples.

436
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.279
<v Speaker 2>How how embarrassing? Yeah, imagine at your fucking job though,

437
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh right.

438
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.559
<v Speaker 3>Gosh imagine, Like so, yeah, I would be I think

439
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:43.119
<v Speaker 3>I'll try to make it funny.

440
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:48.759
<v Speaker 2>Take down your pants, kiss me first, looked deeply into

441
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.680
<v Speaker 2>my eyes. Ah, you tell me I'm pretty. That's then

442
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I think my pants off. But for him, I bet

443
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:02.839
<v Speaker 2>it's a shock, this whole thing, for sure, right right, Yeah,

444
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I would be shocked. I mean, I'm scared.

445
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm scared and being like, damn it, I got to

446
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.039
<v Speaker 3>prove myself in the yard soon.

447
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

448
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:18.400
<v Speaker 1>So after this, Jerry was allowed at that point to

449
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.400
<v Speaker 1>go see his lawyer. In late December nineteen eighty five,

450
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Collins, remember his stepdaughter, arrived at the courthouse for

451
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 1>her testimony on the evidence tampering charge. This was the

452
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.519
<v Speaker 1>first grand jury convened in Christian County in fifty years.

453
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.519
<v Speaker 1>Jackie's parents attended. They had not missed a hearing connected

454
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:44.319
<v Speaker 1>to their daughter's death at all. During every testimony that

455
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:48.039
<v Speaker 1>she gave, Sarah gave the same story she had been

456
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.599
<v Speaker 1>polygraphed and passed, and she never wavered. She and Jerry

457
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.119
<v Speaker 1>returned from the restaurant and then she left to go

458
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:59.079
<v Speaker 1>pick up a curling iron a kmart. However, this time

459
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>she claim Jerry was leaving at the same time as her,

460
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and that he went to the Vara warehouse. This meetil

461
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:11.279
<v Speaker 1>you had been missing from her previous interview. And then

462
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.440
<v Speaker 1>she said that when she returned from kmart, Jerry was

463
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 1>already home. After they both had ran their errands, They'd

464
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.160
<v Speaker 1>watched the first part of Johnny Carson, and then they

465
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.200
<v Speaker 1>both went to bed. Jerry couldn't have left, she said.

466
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 1>If he had, she would have heard the loud muffler

467
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.720
<v Speaker 1>on his truck. She was certain he was home from

468
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>nine thirty until the next morning. The prosecution called her

469
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>a liar, accusing her of not being able to keep

470
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 1>her story straight, and the grand jury didn't believe this

471
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 1>story she gave, so Sarah was indicted for felony perjury.

472
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 2>After all, I know you never hear that right right.

473
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:53.759
<v Speaker 1>The evening of January eighteenth, nineteen eighty six, Kenny Carnahan,

474
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:58.559
<v Speaker 1>who was Jerry's older brother, showed up at Sheriff McNeil's office.

475
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Kenny had been summoned for interrogation. Although he had testified

476
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.799
<v Speaker 1>to the grand jury that morning, the sheriff hadn't been present,

477
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 1>so Kenny would be expected to tell his story again

478
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.720
<v Speaker 1>in person. Kenny had spent part of the night of

479
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 1>June seventeenth with his parents and relatives at a country

480
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:21.519
<v Speaker 1>western comedy show forty five minutes away between eleven fifteen

481
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.880
<v Speaker 1>and eleven forty five like at that point is when

482
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:29.079
<v Speaker 1>they left the show. Kenny was driving his parents car

483
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.359
<v Speaker 1>and went to drop it back off at their house,

484
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.079
<v Speaker 1>where he picked up his truck and his wife and kids,

485
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 1>who had stayed there while he was out. He had

486
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 1>it back up a side road that intersected with Highway

487
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.480
<v Speaker 1>win sixty, which was near the seven eleven, just before

488
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.920
<v Speaker 1>the intersection and only about two hundred yards away from

489
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.240
<v Speaker 1>where the camaro would be found. Kenny said he saw

490
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:54.759
<v Speaker 1>his brother's pick up parked on the west side of

491
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:58.319
<v Speaker 1>the road and it was empty. Further, he admitted that

492
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>he commented to his wife, is that Jerry's truck? The

493
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.440
<v Speaker 1>next day, Kenny ran into his brother at the plant.

494
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Jerry insisted that it couldn't have been his truck since

495
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 1>he'd been home with Sarah. Weeks later, Jerry stopped Kenny

496
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>at work to tell him that if anyone asked if

497
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>he'd seen anything, he shouldn't mention seeing.

498
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:20.599
<v Speaker 2>His pickup on the road.

499
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.880
<v Speaker 1>That night, the officers were excited about Oh my gosh, yes,

500
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and Jerry was asked, you know, why did it take

501
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 1>you so long to speak up? And Kenny didn't have

502
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:34.799
<v Speaker 1>an answer. He just shook his head in response. When

503
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.279
<v Speaker 1>asked if he believed the trip to Taiwan in October

504
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty five was arranged for Jerry to flee arrest, he.

505
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.079
<v Speaker 2>Agreed that it probably was.

506
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, damn, his brother ritting him out, No kidding, he

507
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.440
<v Speaker 1>must know his brother. Yeah, No, his brother probably piece

508
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:55.440
<v Speaker 1>of shit right, yeah good. Thursday, January twenty third, nineteen

509
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.039
<v Speaker 1>eighty six, breaking news flashed across the screen as Kenny

510
00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:03.319
<v Speaker 1>watched the e television. It said the police have arrested

511
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Carnahan in connection with the murder of Jackie Jentes.

512
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 1>The news flash the scene. It showed Jerry leaned over

513
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Sheriff McNeil's cruiser.

514
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 2>On Highway one sixty.

515
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Flipping through the stations, it was the same story on

516
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:24.279
<v Speaker 1>every channel. On December ninth, nineteen eighty six, the flimsy

517
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:27.480
<v Speaker 1>evidence tampering charge finally made it to the courtroom. The

518
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:31.000
<v Speaker 1>defense attorney asked, how can this be tampering with evidence?

519
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:35.079
<v Speaker 1>Jackie's parents sat in the front row. Although this wasn't

520
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:38.079
<v Speaker 1>a murder trial, this was the only prosecution for their

521
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 1>daughter's murder to date, so you know, they had to

522
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:42.200
<v Speaker 1>be there.

523
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>They felt like they had to be there.

524
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, The argument surrounding the claim that Jerry tampered with

525
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.279
<v Speaker 1>evidence by lying when he claimed he wasn't behind the

526
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:54.279
<v Speaker 1>seven eleven like that was super thin.

527
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, it's very very thin.

528
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Prosecution introduced a micro cassett of the interview where Jerry

529
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 1>had lied in order to beat the defense to the

530
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:08.160
<v Speaker 1>argument that there was nothing to be tampered with. However,

531
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.839
<v Speaker 1>during testimony, when witnesses were asked if Jerry had ever

532
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>had access to the micro cassett, the prosecution realized that

533
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>they had made a mistake. Jerry would have never had

534
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.720
<v Speaker 1>access to the item and so would not have been

535
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.680
<v Speaker 1>able to tamper with it. Jerry and his wife Pat

536
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 1>waited until the defense attorney gave them a signal.

537
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:29.599
<v Speaker 2>When the judge.

538
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Moved to toss the charge, Jackie's parents and her three

539
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.039
<v Speaker 1>older sisters looked defeated, and the judge dismissed the case.

540
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, the family, the people in the courtroom,

541
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.359
<v Speaker 1>and the entire town was disappointed in the outcome. So

542
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.559
<v Speaker 1>now flash forward to April twenty seventh, nineteen eighty seven,

543
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.119
<v Speaker 1>which was the last day of Sarah Collins's perjury trial.

544
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 1>After a change of venue, it was now fifty miles away.

545
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.160
<v Speaker 1>BJ Honeycut. Come on, now, this guy is not named

546
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>BJ honeycut.

547
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Hello, yeah, Benjamin Franklin Pierce.

548
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right here, hop it, okay, right, BJ Honeycut, Which

549
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>I just can't fucking believe this guy had the same

550
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>had been reporting on the trial, but hadn't had the

551
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.720
<v Speaker 1>time to make the drive for the end of it.

552
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.839
<v Speaker 1>He made a short report based on information from sources,

553
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and got in his car, driving along the same stretch

554
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:35.839
<v Speaker 1>of Highway one sixty that Jacky's car had been found

555
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:39.039
<v Speaker 1>on two years ago. Looking up on the left of

556
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 1>the shoulder of the oncoming lane, there was a Voltswagon.

557
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.400
<v Speaker 1>The driver's side door was open and the parking lights

558
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.680
<v Speaker 1>were on. Honeycut he believed someone had run into car trouble, maybe,

559
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.440
<v Speaker 1>so he slowed to check. Further down the road. He

560
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:58.000
<v Speaker 1>drove past a police officer in the parking lot of

561
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 1>a supermarket in Willard, which was a nearby small town,

562
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.880
<v Speaker 1>and he stopped to tell him about the vehicle. Two

563
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>days later, he got a call from the Green County

564
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.799
<v Speaker 1>Sheriff's department asking if he knew a woman named Debbie.

565
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:12.319
<v Speaker 2>Sue Lewis Wi.

566
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Sue was thirty one, five foot three and about one hundred.

567
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:16.359
<v Speaker 2>And five pounds.

568
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Honeycutt was told she had gone missing from the VW

569
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:24.200
<v Speaker 1>he'd driven by that night. The vehicle had been impounded,

570
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>but she never returned home to her apartment. Her purse

571
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.640
<v Speaker 1>was lying on the passenger front seat with money visible.

572
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.279
<v Speaker 1>The keys of the vehicle were in the ignition, just

573
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.880
<v Speaker 1>like in the case of Jackie John's. Honeycott later found

574
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.279
<v Speaker 1>out that just minutes before he'd driven by w Seue's car,

575
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 1>a deputy sheriff on his way home had seen a

576
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.480
<v Speaker 1>different car on the side of the road with the

577
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:50.839
<v Speaker 1>hood up. As he was about to stop and offer aid,

578
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 1>he saw a light colored VW pull in behind. He

579
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:58.039
<v Speaker 1>figured the driver of the car that was in distress

580
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:01.319
<v Speaker 1>had already called for help in the VW. You know,

581
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:06.759
<v Speaker 1>they just arrived, so the sheriff he contigued to drive home. Yeah,

582
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:09.079
<v Speaker 1>the working theory would be that Debbie Sue had pulled

583
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:11.760
<v Speaker 1>up behind the car with the hood up to offer

584
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:13.800
<v Speaker 1>help and.

585
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:17.800
<v Speaker 2>She was abducted. You know, he could have still stopped. Yeah,

586
00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.639
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of fucking assumption.

587
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:25.719
<v Speaker 3>Oh I thought that my professional opinion, I figured he

588
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:26.760
<v Speaker 3>had called someone.

589
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.719
<v Speaker 2>Were cell phones around in eighty seven, I don't think so. No,

590
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't think nothing. That didn't have an antenna you

591
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.920
<v Speaker 2>had to pull out. That's right. Mm hmmm, sough.

592
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Terrible Honeycot connected the dots between this disappearance and the

593
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.280
<v Speaker 1>murder of Jackie John's. He told his editor quote, I

594
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.199
<v Speaker 1>think I was just a few minutes behind the abduction,

595
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 1>and it's the weirdest feeling, right, ah terrible. One night,

596
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Debbie SU's parents were talking and both remembered during the

597
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 1>previous summer she had talked about a guy she and

598
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:05.679
<v Speaker 1>her friends had met at Table Rock Lake. He'd shown

599
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.119
<v Speaker 1>up with a speedboat and offered to take them water

600
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:11.480
<v Speaker 1>skiing after the boat they'd been using had broken down.

601
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.480
<v Speaker 1>The guy called himself Jerry. Wie Sue later saw the

602
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.199
<v Speaker 1>same man named Jerry on TV when there had been

603
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.000
<v Speaker 1>reports of a woman named Jackie Johns that went missing

604
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:28.039
<v Speaker 1>in Nixa. When Jerry Carnahan's picture flashed across the screen,

605
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Debbie Sioux's parents remembered she'd gotten excited when she told

606
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 1>him that that was the Jerry from the lake. Debbie

607
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.719
<v Speaker 1>Sioux's father went to the library and did his research

608
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.599
<v Speaker 1>on Jerry Carnahan. He discovered that Jerry was a volleyball

609
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.760
<v Speaker 1>player in a league that played at the Ozark Mountain Stadium,

610
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 1>where Debbie Sue worked pushing a cart that sold soda

611
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:51.719
<v Speaker 1>in hotdogs. The one main difference between the two murders

612
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.480
<v Speaker 1>was that there wasn't a grizzly scene in Debbie Sioux's voatswagon.

613
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

614
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Eight months after Debbie Sue disappeared, a couple but went

615
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.400
<v Speaker 1>on a walk through their acreage in a remote area

616
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.679
<v Speaker 1>of Newton County, which was about a half an hour

617
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:09.519
<v Speaker 1>from Nixon, where they spotted something pink and white on

618
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.639
<v Speaker 1>the ground among fallen leaves. They then noticed a light

619
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.360
<v Speaker 1>blue colored pair of shorts and realized that they were

620
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.519
<v Speaker 1>still on what looked like to be a human pelvic bone.

621
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Minutes later, the man was on the phone to a

622
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>dispatcher at Newton County as the county deputy was headed

623
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 1>to the site. The officer received another call that a

624
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.039
<v Speaker 1>dog owned by another residence of the area had just

625
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:36.400
<v Speaker 1>arrived home with a human skull in his mouth.

626
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, right, this is so close.

627
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.920
<v Speaker 3>So a dog comes home and then this couple discovers ye,

628
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 3>oh my goodness, crazy crazy, crazy, crazy gray.

629
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 1>The skeleton had been scattered, but police were able to

630
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.119
<v Speaker 1>get most of it within the barrier of the crime

631
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>scene tape. The pink and white ton of shoes still hit.

632
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.559
<v Speaker 1>The laces tied inside the shoes were a pair of

633
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.320
<v Speaker 1>multicolored socks with the foot bones still within.

634
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

635
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 1>The turquoise legwarmers were still on the lower leg bones,

636
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 1>and the light blue shorts and black bikini underwear were visible.

637
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.599
<v Speaker 1>There was a red, blue and green striped jacket with

638
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 1>armbones within the sleeves.

639
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

640
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The officers saw that there was nylon rope wrapped

641
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.079
<v Speaker 1>around fingerbones, which led them to believe that the victim's hands.

642
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Had been tied behind her back.

643
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:31.599
<v Speaker 1>Right while the skull was gone, They did find a

644
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:34.360
<v Speaker 1>patch of brown hair with an elastic headband and a

645
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:38.519
<v Speaker 1>banana clip under some leaves. It was clear the remains

646
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:39.960
<v Speaker 1>had been lying there for months.

647
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:41.480
<v Speaker 2>The skeleton was.

648
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.559
<v Speaker 1>Nearly complete, but they were unable to determine a cause

649
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:46.880
<v Speaker 1>of death and were only able to say it was

650
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:51.239
<v Speaker 1>a homicide because they have no head right right, and

651
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.360
<v Speaker 1>it's all bones, and you know, if you're you know,

652
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.920
<v Speaker 1>if you're killed in some way.

653
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>That drama head, yes, yeah, with no trauma.

654
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:03.159
<v Speaker 1>To your bon then it's really hard to say. The

655
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:06.599
<v Speaker 1>following day, the Sheriff's office in Green County had received

656
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:08.920
<v Speaker 1>notice of the remains with the list of the close

657
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.679
<v Speaker 1>with a list of the clothing, making a call. He

658
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.960
<v Speaker 1>said he was shirt was Debbie Siue. Lewis later confirmed

659
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 1>by dental records. Around this time, the deputy heard the

660
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:23.320
<v Speaker 1>name Jerry Carnahan. He hadn't paid much attention to the

661
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:26.920
<v Speaker 1>homicide investigation in the neighboring county, but witnesses had put

662
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.199
<v Speaker 1>Jerry at a bar in Springfield nearby on the night

663
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.840
<v Speaker 1>that Debbie Sue disappeared, and he received information that the

664
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.119
<v Speaker 1>victim may have had an interaction with the man soon

665
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:43.800
<v Speaker 1>before she died. In March nineteen ninety three, eighteen year

666
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:47.480
<v Speaker 1>old high school senior Howther Starkey was a passenger in

667
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.320
<v Speaker 1>her boyfriend's car around two am. They had been arguing

668
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.559
<v Speaker 1>and he hit the brakes, leaving her to slap him

669
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:58.559
<v Speaker 1>in the face. Getting out of the car, she began walking,

670
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:01.239
<v Speaker 1>intending to make it to a friend's house about five

671
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 1>minutes away to get a ride home. When she left

672
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:06.119
<v Speaker 1>the car, the area she was dropped in was a

673
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.280
<v Speaker 1>rural She was able to spot a well liit gas

674
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.199
<v Speaker 1>station close ahead, so she wasn't like scared.

675
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

676
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.880
<v Speaker 1>When she reached the edge of the convenience store's parking lot,

677
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.280
<v Speaker 1>a white Chrysler pulled up in front of her about

678
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.719
<v Speaker 1>fifty yards ahead and parked sharply as if to black

679
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 1>her walking path.

680
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 2>She stopped and.

681
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Considered running when a man in his mid thirties in

682
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:32.079
<v Speaker 1>an overcoat got out of the passenger side and began

683
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.679
<v Speaker 1>walking toward her at a threatening pace. He grabbed her

684
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.800
<v Speaker 1>arm and Heather screamed. She felt he was pushing her

685
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.960
<v Speaker 1>toward the woods, but in the early spring sleet, she

686
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:46.400
<v Speaker 1>slipped and they fell together to the ground. She tried

687
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>to pull herself free, but he was too strong, so

688
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:51.760
<v Speaker 1>she screamed again and began to flail to get out

689
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.960
<v Speaker 1>of his grip. Finally, she was able to get free

690
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:58.760
<v Speaker 1>and sprinted to the convenience store, sobbing to call for help.

691
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Another happened to be driving that same route and saw

692
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:06.039
<v Speaker 1>the struggle. When the passenger saw the girl run towards

693
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the store, she looked back and saw the attacker get

694
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:13.679
<v Speaker 1>into the white Chrysler driven by another man. As they

695
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.920
<v Speaker 1>pulled away, the chrysler got close to their car behind them.

696
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.480
<v Speaker 1>The witnesses could see the driver, passenger, and the license

697
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.360
<v Speaker 1>plate number. The number was noted, and when they got

698
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:27.079
<v Speaker 1>home they called the Springfield police to report it. Nice

699
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Four days later, On Thursday, March eighteenth, nineteen ninety three,

700
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.559
<v Speaker 1>the Christian County Sheriff's Deputies, NIX, the Police, and a

701
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.000
<v Speaker 1>detective from Springfield Police Department arrived at the aluminum plant

702
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:44.280
<v Speaker 1>to arrest Jerry Carnahan. They had traced the plate number

703
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:49.199
<v Speaker 1>to a white Chrysler that Jerry had rented. Jerry's friend,

704
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:53.719
<v Speaker 1>Eric Turnage, had been driving the truck that night. He

705
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.800
<v Speaker 1>said he'd had no idea what his friend intended to

706
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:58.519
<v Speaker 1>do when he told him to pull over.

707
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Sure. Yeah.

708
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:03.639
<v Speaker 1>When Jerry returned to the car after the struggle, Eric

709
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.679
<v Speaker 1>had asked, you know what happened, and Jerry claimed it

710
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:11.840
<v Speaker 1>was just a misunderstanding. Yeah, it was just a misunderstanding.

711
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, doesn't sound like it looked like you were really

712
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.719
<v Speaker 3>gunning for her.

713
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And Eric apparently didn't ask any more questions after that.

714
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.119
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

715
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Jerry was charged with attempted kidnapping and released that afternoon

716
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:28.559
<v Speaker 1>on fifteen thousand dollars bail. Later, he was arraigned for

717
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.679
<v Speaker 1>attempted kidnapping. Realized that there was no way they would

718
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:34.840
<v Speaker 1>be able to find twelve impartial jurors in the area,

719
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.199
<v Speaker 1>the case was moved one hundred and fifty miles away

720
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to Boone County. On September seventeenth, nineteen ninety three, mere

721
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.119
<v Speaker 1>months before Jerry's trial for attempted kidnapping, an intruder used

722
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 1>a steel pry bar to force open an unloading door

723
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:54.639
<v Speaker 1>of the custom aluminum foundry south of Nixa. There was

724
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.760
<v Speaker 1>no attempt to conceal their footprints and gloves were left

725
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 1>at the scene the padlock on it. The door lock

726
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:03.519
<v Speaker 1>was cut with bolt cutters, which were left on the

727
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:06.960
<v Speaker 1>loading back. A mark was left in red spray paint

728
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.559
<v Speaker 1>below the window on the driver side of a Ford

729
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>panel truck, and the window was smashed. The intruder tried

730
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 1>to steal the vehicle by shoving a screwdriver into the ignition,

731
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:20.400
<v Speaker 1>but the battery was too weak. Instead, he broke into

732
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:23.639
<v Speaker 1>the warehouse, breaking the door handle off the door and

733
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:27.840
<v Speaker 1>throwing it into the bushes. Coming upon the production area,

734
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:31.760
<v Speaker 1>he found expensive sand molds for casting aluminum parts for

735
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.320
<v Speaker 1>fishing boats. They weighed about fifty pounds and were worth

736
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:39.079
<v Speaker 1>about two thousand dollars apiece. The intruder spent about an

737
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.519
<v Speaker 1>hour carrying dozens of the molds one by one into

738
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:46.440
<v Speaker 1>the van he'd brought to the foundry that night, the

739
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.119
<v Speaker 1>wood pailets that the molds had been sitting on were

740
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:51.239
<v Speaker 1>set on fire with gasoline.

741
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why. Yeah, I'm not sure either.

742
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.719
<v Speaker 1>By seven am, the Aurora Fire Department finished putting out

743
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the fire. Investigators determined that the fire had been set

744
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 1>to destroy evidence of the theft, but it didn't do

745
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:09.320
<v Speaker 1>its job. Watched attempted little more than char a small

746
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 1>area of the production floor.

747
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.480
<v Speaker 2>They hilarious. I think maybe they were trying to burn

748
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:16.599
<v Speaker 2>down the whole place.

749
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:21.679
<v Speaker 3>Maybe, Oh, absolutely, And they have no plan other than

750
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 3>a couple of movies.

751
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:23.239
<v Speaker 2>They saw.

752
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.119
<v Speaker 3>This is super sloppy and no long game work, you know,

753
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:30.920
<v Speaker 3>because I mean you're just breaking stuff, you're leaving a trail,

754
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 3>and because you really believe, yeah, that it's just gonna

755
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 3>go up like backdraft or something.

756
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.760
<v Speaker 2>No it's not, I know, right, Yeah, it's gonna explode.

757
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, as you walk into the sunset with your molds.

758
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>So the fire department is they are sure that this

759
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:57.760
<v Speaker 1>job was done by an amateur. The owners of the

760
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:02.239
<v Speaker 1>foundry were Wes and Dolores. They had opened the business

761
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.599
<v Speaker 1>about a year earlier, but had run into financial problems

762
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:12.159
<v Speaker 1>and reached out to Springfield Aluminum, the Carnahan's company, to

763
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:14.280
<v Speaker 1>make a deal that would let them keep their most

764
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>important customers, which were several nationally known fishing boat manufacturers.

765
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.079
<v Speaker 1>The previous day, Wes had driven to Springfield to meet

766
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 1>with Roger Moore, who was president of Springfield Aluminum, and

767
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Carnahan, the owner's son and an executive of the company.

768
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.960
<v Speaker 1>He wanted them to make the parts with the sand

769
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:43.519
<v Speaker 1>molds in his foundry in Aurora. Roger declined, but Wes

770
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.039
<v Speaker 1>found a taker for the deal in a foundry in Kansas,

771
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.519
<v Speaker 1>and they planned to truck the molds over to them

772
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:54.920
<v Speaker 1>the following day. When Roger arrived at the office at

773
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.519
<v Speaker 1>Springfield Aluminum the following morning at seven am, he was

774
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:02.440
<v Speaker 1>surprised to see Jerry had already arrived two hours earlier

775
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:06.360
<v Speaker 1>than normal in a Chrysler Mini van that looked very

776
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:11.840
<v Speaker 1>heavily loaded. Roger knew something was up and was apprehensive.

777
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 1>In a later police interview, he said of Jerry Carnahan

778
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.639
<v Speaker 1>that he'd never met a man so dangerously out of control.

779
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

780
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.199
<v Speaker 1>When Roger walked into his office that morning, he'd seen

781
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:29.199
<v Speaker 1>Jerry sprawled across his sofa sound asleep. Roger inquired as

782
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:33.119
<v Speaker 1>to you know, what are you doing here? What's up

783
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 1>with the van? Jerry said he'd picked up some tooling

784
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 1>at Custom Foundries that night. When Roger asked how he

785
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.360
<v Speaker 1>did it, Jerry didn't mince word and simply said, well,

786
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.079
<v Speaker 1>I stole it.

787
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Well direct, okay, yeah.

788
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Telling Jerry to go back to sleep, Roger walked out

789
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:56.719
<v Speaker 1>to the parking lot and called Jerry's father, Garnet, telling

790
00:45:56.840 --> 00:46:00.960
<v Speaker 1>him to come handle this right now, then called the

791
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.800
<v Speaker 1>attorney for the owner of Custom Foundry, and then he

792
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:08.199
<v Speaker 1>called the cops. On September twentieth, nineteen ninety three, arrest

793
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:13.400
<v Speaker 1>warrants were issued charging Jerry Carnahan with felony, counsel of arson, burglary.

794
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:13.599
<v Speaker 2>And theft.

795
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.719
<v Speaker 1>The bail was set at forty thousand, which Jerry's family

796
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:21.079
<v Speaker 1>easily paid, so he was out in public once again.

797
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Right in late nineteen ninety three, the attempted kidnapping trial

798
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:30.519
<v Speaker 1>began for Heather oh Okay. Thirty five year old Jerry

799
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:35.440
<v Speaker 1>appeared in an expensive suit with in aloof smile on

800
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.360
<v Speaker 1>his face. Other Starkey had been asked to testify and

801
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.960
<v Speaker 1>reluctantly would pat and Sarah Collins attended the trial, as

802
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:48.320
<v Speaker 1>did Jackie's widowed father, Les John's. Her mother surely had

803
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:52.519
<v Speaker 1>passed away of lung cancer in nineteen eighty eight. On

804
00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.960
<v Speaker 1>December first, nineteen ninety three, opening statements were made. They

805
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:59.880
<v Speaker 1>were brief, with prosecution saying eyewitnesses would tell the jury

806
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 1>I horrifying tale, while the defense claimed his client was

807
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:05.559
<v Speaker 1>merely trying to help a young woman.

808
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Being helpful. Yeah, hullul gentleman.

809
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like, come on now, fucking psychopath, I mean gentlemen.

810
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm.

811
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.119
<v Speaker 1>The following day, the jury was out for only three

812
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.679
<v Speaker 1>hours before they found Jerry guilty of the crime, and

813
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.519
<v Speaker 1>they recommended two years in prison. The maximum would have

814
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:32.239
<v Speaker 1>been seven years for charge. Les John's sat up and smiled.

815
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:33.920
<v Speaker 1>That was Jackie's dad.

816
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:36.239
<v Speaker 2>After all of the.

817
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:40.119
<v Speaker 1>Charges of nineteen ninety three were finalized, Jerry was sentenced

818
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:43.559
<v Speaker 1>to a year for felony tampering with a vehicle, plus

819
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:47.000
<v Speaker 1>for the charges of attempted kidnapping, arson and destroying a car.

820
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:48.039
<v Speaker 2>There were four.

821
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.599
<v Speaker 1>Convictions adding up to seven years, which the judge ran concurrently,

822
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.239
<v Speaker 1>meaning he was sentenced to four years total and he

823
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.960
<v Speaker 1>would probably end up serving just too. He was relief

824
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:03.639
<v Speaker 1>least on April seventh, nineteen ninety six, to the custody

825
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.760
<v Speaker 1>of detainees from Green County. They were going to hold

826
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.239
<v Speaker 1>him in the county jail for another fifteen months for

827
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:12.679
<v Speaker 1>unrelated charges of assaulting a police officer and brandishing a

828
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.519
<v Speaker 1>pistol while drunk. Okay, boy, this Jerry sounds like a piece.

829
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes he does, He really does. Pat Collins divorced Jerry

830
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 1>while he was in prison, citing mental cruelty. After getting

831
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:31.719
<v Speaker 1>gout in prison, Springfield Aluminum sent Jerry to Taiwan on

832
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:35.079
<v Speaker 1>an extended business trip that was assumed to have been.

833
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Made up to keep him out of trouble. Sure Over the.

834
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Next handful of years, a few detectives tried to revive

835
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Jackie John's case. In two thousand and two, there had

836
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:47.480
<v Speaker 1>been an attempt to run a DNA analysis on the

837
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.599
<v Speaker 1>vaginal swabs from Jackie's case, but the SAMPA was too

838
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:54.559
<v Speaker 1>small at the time. It wouldn't be until October two

839
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:58.039
<v Speaker 1>thousand and six, when Dan Nash of the Springfield Police

840
00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Department was assigned to the case that movement really began.

841
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.559
<v Speaker 1>By two thousand and seven, Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime

842
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.519
<v Speaker 1>lab had attained the latest equipment for DNA testing. The

843
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:11.599
<v Speaker 1>swab that had been too small in two thousand and

844
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:13.440
<v Speaker 1>two was now able to be tested.

845
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

846
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this was the sample that was turned in on

847
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:21.599
<v Speaker 1>January thirty first, two thousand and seven. It took the

848
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:24.360
<v Speaker 1>crime lab six weeks for them to come back with

849
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:30.159
<v Speaker 1>a sixteen point DNA profile, which is nearly the best possible.

850
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.559
<v Speaker 2>Wow, very nice.

851
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Would be unable to get a sample from Jerry Carnahan

852
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.679
<v Speaker 1>right away he was still in Taiwan, but patients paid

853
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 1>off and when the officer got a phone call in

854
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:45.840
<v Speaker 1>August that Jerry had returned the police department, they didn't

855
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:46.559
<v Speaker 1>waste any time.

856
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:49.880
<v Speaker 3>I love it that he has no idea of all

857
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:54.400
<v Speaker 3>this DNA advancements, and he's all like I'm going to

858
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.079
<v Speaker 3>fly back to the state. Yeah, fright, web, come and

859
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:03.400
<v Speaker 3>go as that please, right, come on home. Jerry Nash

860
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:05.920
<v Speaker 3>had gotten a search warrant signed by a judge to

861
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:10.239
<v Speaker 3>compel Jerry to open his mouth and let that swab

862
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:14.800
<v Speaker 3>sample get from inside his cheek. That booking job.

863
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.119
<v Speaker 1>The officers arrived at Springfield Aluminum and walked into Jerry's office.

864
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.679
<v Speaker 1>He looks startled and asked, is this over that Jackie

865
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:23.400
<v Speaker 1>John's thing?

866
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:27.079
<v Speaker 3>Like, really, yes, because I know that's what you've been

867
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:30.159
<v Speaker 3>thinking about every day since you killed her. Mm hmm.

868
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:32.000
<v Speaker 2>His voice broke.

869
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.960
<v Speaker 1>The forty nine year old man had tears running down

870
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:38.960
<v Speaker 1>his cheek. Gone was the aloof grin replaced by a frown.

871
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.960
<v Speaker 1>He asked when the test would be done. Detective Nash,

872
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:45.440
<v Speaker 1>lying told him that they were backed up for at

873
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:50.440
<v Speaker 1>least a year, but he knew better, right, you would

874
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.679
<v Speaker 1>have this test run overnight. At six fifteen the following morning,

875
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:58.119
<v Speaker 1>Detective Nash received the word that the test results were in.

876
00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Carnahan only had a few hours left as a freeman.

877
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:10.320
<v Speaker 1>At nine am, Yeah, finally, yes, the fucker evaded fucking decades.

878
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, decade.

879
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:13.960
<v Speaker 3>You know, he reminds me of just the one every

880
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.400
<v Speaker 3>time you said like a loop ors that smug ass face,

881
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:22.119
<v Speaker 3>I think of cal from Titanic. Oh yeah, you know

882
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 3>that fucking smugg I'm looking at steerage, Yeah, steerage, yes, yes.

883
00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Ugh.

884
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:33.840
<v Speaker 1>At nine am, Detective Nash pulled up to Springfield Aluminum

885
00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:37.199
<v Speaker 1>to wait for Jerry to arrive. Arrest warrant in hand.

886
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:41.760
<v Speaker 1>A minivan pulled into the parking spot that was Jerry's

887
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:45.440
<v Speaker 1>just after ten am, and Detective Nash approached the vehicle,

888
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:48.719
<v Speaker 1>arresting Jerry on the spot. While he was putting the

889
00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:53.280
<v Speaker 1>handcuffs on Jerry, he again spotted a tear rolling down

890
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:53.960
<v Speaker 1>his cheek.

891
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh what happened? Why was he crying?

892
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Because he's getting arrested.

893
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Girl, he got caught. That's all about Jerry, Poor Jerry.

894
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:08.000
<v Speaker 2>No one's silent, but except Jackie's parents exactly.

895
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of Jackie's parents at eighty years old, Les John's

896
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.000
<v Speaker 1>had fallen ill by this point, and he worried that

897
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:18.920
<v Speaker 1>he would never see the day that Jerry would pay

898
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:23.320
<v Speaker 1>for Jackie's death. However, in the state of Missouri, versus

899
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Carnahan, the DNA evidence was irrefutable. The trial began

900
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:33.239
<v Speaker 1>September fourteenth, twenty ten. Shortly after noon on September twenty second,

901
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:36.599
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten, the jury left the courtroom to discuss and

902
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:42.360
<v Speaker 1>decide the verdict. Just before three pm on the following day,

903
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:44.840
<v Speaker 1>the twenty third, there was news that the jury was ready.

904
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Gerald Leonard Carnahan was found guilty of the murder of

905
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 1>Jackie John's twenty five years after all.

906
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:55.800
<v Speaker 2>My gosh, how bittersweet.

907
00:52:56.199 --> 00:53:00.079
<v Speaker 1>I know, her sisters cheered. Her father waited by the

908
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.199
<v Speaker 1>phone until the call came in, so he finally got

909
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:04.400
<v Speaker 1>some closure.

910
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Gives me the chills there, you know, there's a stare

911
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:08.840
<v Speaker 2>at your daughter. I know.

912
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:13.000
<v Speaker 1>On October twenty fifth, twenty ten, Jerry was sentenced to

913
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:17.239
<v Speaker 1>life without parole, and as of October twenty twenty, a

914
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.159
<v Speaker 1>judge in Springfield, Missouri, upheld the conviction good. There was

915
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.519
<v Speaker 1>no arrest made for W. C. Lewis's murder, so that

916
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.239
<v Speaker 1>one is still technically probably unsolved.

917
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.519
<v Speaker 2>So unsolved on the technicality.

918
00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:36.360
<v Speaker 1>But we know, yeah, it was very similar to Jackie's

919
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 1>disappearance and murder.

920
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.840
<v Speaker 2>So oh same m a yeah, same emo.

921
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:44.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know innocente'l proven guilty, Shannon, I know.

922
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:49.119
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I'm so jaded. My fifty four years here hasn't

923
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:53.119
<v Speaker 3>been all, hasn't been all sun flowers and sunshine.

924
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, girl, I know, I'm like, oh, he fucking did

925
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.360
<v Speaker 1>it right?

926
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh this lion. They're fuck lion, motherfucker howard.

927
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:06.639
<v Speaker 3>Ass bitch you know, yeah, you know, don't even get

928
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:08.920
<v Speaker 3>me going. I'll tell you how I really feel about

929
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:12.679
<v Speaker 3>fuckers like this. I know so well thank you. I

930
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.079
<v Speaker 3>love this story. I thought how long it kept going.

931
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:19.599
<v Speaker 3>I thank God for DNA and I know.

932
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.400
<v Speaker 2>By ince and it just helps us become better people.

933
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:27.480
<v Speaker 1>And I know all these cold cases, you know a

934
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of cold cases get solved by DNA.

935
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.559
<v Speaker 2>So I love that they had the for the long

936
00:54:34.760 --> 00:54:36.599
<v Speaker 2>sight of the long game.

937
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Of collecting when the technology wasn't there yet, you know,

938
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:44.199
<v Speaker 3>if it was, you know, of course we have our goals.

939
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Looks like we're going to be there soon, but you

940
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.239
<v Speaker 2>just don't know till you're.

941
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:51.119
<v Speaker 1>There, right, Like how in nineteen eighty five, do you

942
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:54.639
<v Speaker 1>know you know all these years later that they're going

943
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:57.400
<v Speaker 1>to be able to test this and you.

944
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Know wonderful things. Yeah, for sure. Oh very cool.

945
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you Shannon for being my audience today, and

946
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:10.199
<v Speaker 1>thank you everyone for listening. Yes, use hit the subscribe

947
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 1>or follow button on whatever app you're listening to if

948
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:17.760
<v Speaker 1>you haven't done so already. If I know, if you

949
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:22.639
<v Speaker 1>employ Crimes and Consequences and you enjoy our weekly episode,

950
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:27.239
<v Speaker 1>we also offer an additional episode for a very small fee,

951
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:31.320
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952
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:34.559
<v Speaker 1>page and you can go there by going to Patreon

953
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:39.159
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Slash t NT, Crimes TNT like Dynamite, Yes,

954
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Crimes and you can also subscribe through the Apple podcast

955
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:48.440
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956
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:51.599
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957
00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:56.920
<v Speaker 1>gives you access to all of the former Patreon members

958
00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:00.760
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959
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.079
<v Speaker 1>so sign up and check them out.

960
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:06.079
<v Speaker 2>If you like it, you'll love them.

961
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we also have website, Crimes Andconsequences dot com. We

962
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:13.800
<v Speaker 1>have merchandise and she is working very hard to put

963
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:15.199
<v Speaker 1>some updated things out there.

964
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:18.000
<v Speaker 2>So yes, I'm loving it so exciting.

965
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Check it out y'all. And I think that's everything, So

966
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 1>thank you again and until our next episode.

967
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, love you guys, stay say love you, Tanya, love

968
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:30.440
<v Speaker 3>you too, Shanny, I love you.

969
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:39.159
<v Speaker 2>Bye