Speaker 1: Yo, what's up everybody. We got a big night tonight.
Speaker 1: We're covering the Parallax via the nineteen seventy four film
Speaker 1: and we got a special guest to help me cover
Speaker 1: this tonight. Everybody knows Jay What's up? Here's Jay Dyer
Speaker 1: from Jay's Analysis. What's going on? Jay?
Speaker 2: What's up?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Glad to be back with you. This is a conspiracy
Speaker 2: classic once again, just like Network that I never did
Speaker 2: really break down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you brought it up on the Actually when
Speaker 1: we did Network last time, you brought this one up.
Speaker 1: And also the term future shot came up, which is
Speaker 1: interesting because Warren Batty says that in the film, and
Speaker 1: this one comes, you know, people, I'm sure people have
Speaker 1: seen this. That they haven't seen it, then we've done
Speaker 1: their homework for them. But this one comes obviously in
Speaker 1: the kind of there's a bunch of seventies conspiracy films
Speaker 1: and there are a few of them are directed by
Speaker 1: this same director, and the cinematographer also worked on a
Speaker 1: few of them, and so Network All the President's Men Telephone,
Speaker 1: I covered the conversation cinematographer did the Godfather Godfather Part
Speaker 1: two Apocalypse now is in there. There's all these films,
Speaker 1: So where do you want to start with this one?
Speaker 1: Because it's it's of course extremely relevant right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the most obvious thing is that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of nods that I didn't recognize until I
Speaker 2: watched it this time. There's a lot of nods to
Speaker 2: the JFK stuff. And I mean we made a couple
Speaker 2: of notes on this because Jimmy and I watched this
Speaker 2: maybe two or three years ago, so I dug out
Speaker 2: my notes and we just rewatched it and noticed, you know,
Speaker 2: quite a bit that I didn't notice. But I think
Speaker 2: now that when when he gets to you know, the
Speaker 2: South and he's dealing with the with the good old boys,
Speaker 2: a lot of this I think is references to elements
Speaker 2: of you know, people thinking that elite oil people were
Speaker 2: involved in the JFK assassination, Texas, Big Texas, Uh, Dixie
Speaker 2: mafia people might have been involved in that. So there
Speaker 2: were some nods to things that I didn't catch the
Speaker 2: first time around, but really relevant, I guess now after
Speaker 2: you know, two weeks ago with Trump. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: would just kick it off by saying, yeah, it's in
Speaker 2: this vein of seventies conspiracy movies, and I just went
Speaker 2: through a couple of other seventies conspiracy movies too that
Speaker 2: have been kind of forgotten. Demon Seed is interesting. It's
Speaker 2: not relevant to what we're talking about, but Demon Seed
Speaker 2: is a Dean Koontz Crowley based film or story, and
Speaker 2: that one deals with like the new birth of a
Speaker 2: new aon through the birth of Antichrist, who's a kind
Speaker 2: of android figure. But this is more so again like
Speaker 2: MK Ultra, I couldn't think of that. There's a few
Speaker 2: other seventies stuff that's worth mentioning to you. In the
Speaker 2: early eighties, I don't know if you've ever seen Looker.
Speaker 2: Looker's a good yeah, MK Ultra. It's a little later,
Speaker 2: early eighties, but there were a few of these MK
Speaker 2: culture based films at this time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This one also deals with the Journalist, right, the
Speaker 1: consummate seventies journalist, which I rewatching, especially rewatching a couple
Speaker 1: of times. I have questions about watching the movie because
Speaker 1: the one thing that they always do, I mean, all
Speaker 1: the President's Men is probably the best example of that. Or,
Speaker 1: of course Three Days of the Condor. I covered six
Speaker 1: Days of the Condor here, and the Three Days of
Speaker 1: the Condor film the book and the film, and of
Speaker 1: course the end of that one is interesting because Robert Redford,
Speaker 1: it's one of the only movies that was allowed access
Speaker 1: into the Big nine place in New York and it
Speaker 1: ends with that, and of course he's walking out saying,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna expose everybody. I'm gonna take this
Speaker 1: to the New York Times, and they say, you know,
Speaker 1: how are you know they're going to print it all
Speaker 1: the Presidents men. Of course is based in DC, and
Speaker 1: you know is there are many scenes in the bullpen.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting about this is that you can watch
Speaker 1: this movie. It's kind of a straight movie and you
Speaker 1: you you realize that you're watching Warren Batty and it's
Speaker 1: very seventies and he's this journalist on the on the
Speaker 1: hunt for what happened at the scene at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the film. But then I noticed that every time
Speaker 1: he goes to talk to Hume Cronin, who's his boss,
Speaker 1: in the bullpen, like there's no one there, it's just him.
Speaker 1: And I'm starting to thinking like, is this some sort
Speaker 1: of form of handler that he has, This all some
Speaker 1: sort of you know, is this all synthetic? Is it
Speaker 1: just a show? And that kind of plays it, and
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I think you can watch the
Speaker 1: movie a few different ways, but there's so many elements
Speaker 1: in this movie that that really tie into the I mean,
Speaker 1: like the scene. This is nineteen seventy four, so it's
Speaker 1: after Clockwork Orange, but there's a very Clockwork Orange.
Speaker 2: MK ultra yea method basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even that's different than than Clockwork Orange because
Speaker 1: when you watch Clockwork Orange and you're watching the scene
Speaker 1: where he's going through the Loutovico method, you know, we
Speaker 1: we the audience, are watching what he's watching and then
Speaker 1: we're watching him watching it. But this we see him
Speaker 1: from far away and we are kind of getting it's
Speaker 1: like we're supposed to be going through the Ludovico method
Speaker 1: because it's they're just showing the screen. It's very it's
Speaker 1: really bizarre. So if anybody doesn't know what the movie's about,
Speaker 1: what happens is basically just in a nutshell is that
Speaker 1: we have it. We're in Seattle. The movie starts, we
Speaker 1: see the space needle, We go up the space needle.
Speaker 1: Warren Beatty is there and there's a I guess a
Speaker 1: presidential candidate named Charles Carroll of all things. Charles Carroll's
Speaker 1: up there and there's waiters there in the restaurant at
Speaker 1: the Space Needle, and almost right away he gets unalived.
Speaker 1: And then we find out we cut three years later
Speaker 1: and we have this scene where Warren Batty like forces
Speaker 1: his way into these people's house. He ends up at
Speaker 1: a police station. Then he gets confronted by one of
Speaker 1: the reporters who was there and says basically that everybody
Speaker 1: that was at the event has been smoked. Everybody's going
Speaker 1: she's in fear for a life. Warren Baby is kind
Speaker 1: of playing the normy role here. He doesn't you know.
Speaker 1: He's like, ah, it's nothing, and then it turns out
Speaker 1: that she is like the next day. So then this
Speaker 1: sets him on a path of trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what happens. He goes through meeting various people. Then he
Speaker 1: tries to infiltrate his way into a corporation. He finds
Speaker 1: a leaflet inside of a deputy's desk or a sheriff's
Speaker 1: desk that says the Parallax Corporation. He tries to infiltrate
Speaker 1: his way into this. He goes through the Ludovico method.
Speaker 1: He ends up as a guy that he thinks he's
Speaker 1: going to expose how the corporations or there's some sort
Speaker 1: of corporate way of playing into an assassination squad or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And then fast forward to the end
Speaker 1: of the movie and we have a gigant like a
Speaker 1: gigantic civic center where there's another candidate, and then Warren
Speaker 1: finds himself up in the rafters and the the great
Speaker 1: twist in the movie spoiler, the great twist in the
Speaker 1: movie is that he's up in the rafters, he looks down,
Speaker 1: he sees a rifle. The guy gets smoked. Warren baby
Speaker 1: tries to run out, and then he realized, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's gone. And then we realized that he's been
Speaker 1: a kind of unwinning Patsy and he's the guy blamed
Speaker 1: for it. And probably the the best part of the
Speaker 1: movie is the fact that it's bookended by the the
Speaker 1: the board, the government board who's investigating it. The movie
Speaker 1: begins after the first scene. It begins with we're closing
Speaker 1: in on this kind of Council of six, just like
Speaker 1: the Watergate.
Speaker 2: Like a Warren Commission.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Warren Commission, And they are and they are
Speaker 1: saying that this is a there's no questions. There is
Speaker 1: a statement here. We're making a statement. We've we've found
Speaker 1: the guy. He was a lone nut, and that's it.
Speaker 1: The end of the movie is the same guys and
Speaker 1: they've said the same thing, but now it's Warren Batty
Speaker 1: and they pull away, and so we're we're giving a
Speaker 1: kind of glance into the system and then we're taken
Speaker 1: back out of it. So yeah, go ahead, No, you're
Speaker 1: go ahead. Well, I was gonna say that the movie
Speaker 1: is is so crazy because the one thing about it,
Speaker 1: and not to get too into the way that the
Speaker 1: movie is shot, but one thing about the seventies movies
Speaker 1: that's different from the from for instance, the seventies. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've talked about this so much. The seventies had like
Speaker 1: this whole lineage of conspiracy movies. The eighties it's kind
Speaker 1: of dormant. And then the nineties again we get a
Speaker 1: bunch of conspiracy movies, you know, conspiracy theory, we get
Speaker 1: we get the Will Smith movie. Then we go into
Speaker 1: the late nineties with you know, ending with big sort
Speaker 1: of glimpses into Illuminate, Confirm. But the difference in these
Speaker 1: movies is that there's a kind of tonal difference. So
Speaker 1: the seventies movies deal with kind of obvious post Vietnam,
Speaker 1: post Watergate sort of paranoia, and the nineties, you know,
Speaker 1: is very pre nine, a post Cold War. But the
Speaker 1: difference in the way that the movies look is that
Speaker 1: the nineties movies are usually cut. They're like jump cuts.
Speaker 1: It's you know, technology is coming and and we we're
Speaker 1: always moving fast with the characters. But the seventies movies
Speaker 1: are dominated by the framing and the scenes. So like
Speaker 1: the very first scene of this movie, it opens and
Speaker 1: we see this gigantic totem ball and we're looking like
Speaker 1: we're looking up at it, and then the total we
Speaker 1: kind of the camera moves, and then we see the
Speaker 1: space needle, and then we see these characters like rising
Speaker 1: into the sky. And every shot in this movie is
Speaker 1: dominated by like the like encroaching. There's nature, there's encroaching buildings,
Speaker 1: there's like big steel walls. There's the scene of the dam,
Speaker 1: and I guess what that's trying to show us is
Speaker 1: that we're getting this glimpse into this thing and the
Speaker 1: people are very small and the system is huge. So
Speaker 1: like if the scene if we're looking at the scene here,
Speaker 1: it's like the person is down here and all of
Speaker 1: this stuff is building or dam or or whatever we have,
Speaker 1: and so it's it reminds me of those like Japanese
Speaker 1: paintings of like the guys that are very small in
Speaker 1: the waves or nature are very big, but instead of nature.
Speaker 2: And that's parallax too, right. I mean the name of
Speaker 2: the film itself, Parallax has to do with the way
Speaker 2: that things appear different depending upon your vantage point of
Speaker 2: your perspective. And I think there's multiple things going on
Speaker 2: because the corporation is called, you know, the Mega Corp.
Speaker 2: Is kind of like a big Holdings corp Black rock
Speaker 2: type of thing. It's called the Parallax Corporation or entity.
Speaker 2: And they also change and control your perspective. So I
Speaker 2: think there's a play on this idea of things being
Speaker 2: controlled based on perspective. And if Parallax can control your perspective,
Speaker 2: they can control your interpretation of reality. I think there's
Speaker 2: some quote from Kissing or something to that effect where
Speaker 2: it says we don't have to control reality, we just
Speaker 2: have to control the perception of reality. So I think
Speaker 2: that's point of this corporation. This excuse me, this mega
Speaker 2: mega entity, and it has this fingers like an octopus
Speaker 2: octazon on fingers. But you know what I'm saying, like,
Speaker 2: if they did, they would have eight fingers and they
Speaker 2: would be in everything. They have holdings that deal with
Speaker 2: even human engineering. So human engineering is the division that
Speaker 2: the film is concerned with, because, as you pointed out,
Speaker 2: Warren Beatty is kind of stumbling down this rabbit hole
Speaker 2: of accidentally discovering what all's really going on, and it
Speaker 2: turns out that it's, as you mentioned, a kind of
Speaker 2: a private uh Mirk force that's being recruited in a
Speaker 2: it's like a privatized Chaultra. So they've got some technique
Speaker 2: by which they break down individuals that they've profiled that
Speaker 2: have antisocial, sociopathic, psychopathic tendencies, and that makes them a
Speaker 2: good fit for this program. And eventually, because of all
Speaker 2: the you know, the problems that Warren Baty's having in
Speaker 2: his life as a journalist, he's you know, third rate.
Speaker 2: They say, he's you know, struggling look at for money,
Speaker 2: he can't keep a girlfriend, he keeps you know, losing
Speaker 2: his girlfriends. They keep saying, oh, you're perfect for this program.
Speaker 2: You need to be in the security detail. That's what
Speaker 2: you're made for because you don't. You're not like other people.
Speaker 2: And they play on his vanity, right, They they butter
Speaker 2: him up and say, did you ever consider that it's
Speaker 2: not you this the problem, but it really is everyone else, right,
Speaker 2: That guy butters his A corporate handler guy butters him up,
Speaker 2: and they eventually get him into this. But I'm getting
Speaker 2: way ahead of myself, but yeah, I think you're right
Speaker 2: that the camera plays a trick with perspective. Like you said, well,
Speaker 2: you have this, you know, totem pole that's close up,
Speaker 2: and then it pans over and you see the space needle.
Speaker 2: It's far away, but they kind of look like the
Speaker 2: same size, and that's kind of again an example of
Speaker 2: playing with and twing with perspective, which is what the
Speaker 2: paralyzed corporation itself does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Keep in that scene with the guy
Speaker 1: who's buttering him up, like he's literally putting butter in
Speaker 1: a pan when he's when he's doing that, he goes
Speaker 1: into his and we get this view like we're already
Speaker 1: inside the apartment and we I'm skipping forward here, but
Speaker 1: we're inside of his shitty apartment. I mean, it's the
Speaker 1: worst apartment. The bed is right next to the front door,
Speaker 1: and then there's a little there's a little kitchenette right there,
Speaker 1: and the guy's like, you know something, whatever you're cooking's burning.
Speaker 1: He later comes in and the guy's lying on his
Speaker 1: bed his feet or in view right when he walks in.
Speaker 1: And and there's the great scene which I'll come back to,
Speaker 1: but there's a great scene where he he reaches out
Speaker 1: to this psychologist who is the guy who that's the
Speaker 1: guy he's in license to kill, you know, he like
Speaker 1: runs the whatever. He goes into this uh, this obvious
Speaker 1: like I don't know what it is, like a Jose
Speaker 1: Delgado facility, walking again. There's a monkey in there playing pong,
Speaker 1: and he shows him the the the list of you know,
Speaker 1: the test for the Parallax Corporation. You you'll make a
Speaker 1: great fit. And he's like, do you think you can
Speaker 1: tell me how to take this test and answer, you know,
Speaker 1: like a psychopath And the guy literally goes, We'll just
Speaker 1: have Jim Jim over here take it. Yeah, this guy,
Speaker 1: this guy you know, smoked his aunt and three other people,
Speaker 1: He'll take it. And then the camera cuts over and
Speaker 1: this guy like walks out of the back. Notice he
Speaker 1: takes the chimp away, like the guy is gonna be
Speaker 1: a threat to the chimp, right, The guy walks in
Speaker 1: and the guy's like and he's like, yeah, we'll just
Speaker 1: have this guy take it. And the guys looks like
Speaker 1: Charles Whitman or something, you know, he's he's the most cycle.
Speaker 1: So the guy takes the test for him and answers
Speaker 1: off the charts like this guy's the biggest psychopath you've
Speaker 1: ever met. And then he But the question is like,
Speaker 1: is this part of it is this is even the
Speaker 1: way that he goes about this part of it?
Speaker 2: Right? Because if, as you pointed out, we wonder and
Speaker 2: this time watching it through, I think what happens is
Speaker 2: you want a new vantage point again to play on
Speaker 2: the title of the film, because if you know the ending,
Speaker 2: then you want to go back and say, well, so,
Speaker 2: how far we're they actually profiling Warren Batty as a
Speaker 2: suitable candidate or recruit. And it's entirely possible, like you said,
Speaker 2: to read it as if it was it was early on,
Speaker 2: because he tells the story as you mentioned later on
Speaker 2: that oh I was, you know, partying one time and
Speaker 2: I was drunk and yeah, you know, I ended up
Speaker 2: running around somehow with my clothes off, and some woman
Speaker 2: claimed that I was a you know, tally whagger or
Speaker 2: wagger or whatever they call it, a willy willy wagger
Speaker 2: whatever they call it in the movie. And he says
Speaker 2: that ruined my career. And then he says, but I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure somebody put something in my drink, which suggests
Speaker 2: again that perhaps he had been uh, they had orchestrated
Speaker 2: this to get him into this position where he couldn't
Speaker 2: find good work and employment as a journalist anymore, and
Speaker 2: he would be this candidate. And it is the case,
Speaker 2: as his ex girlfriend points out at the beginning, that
Speaker 2: he kind of is a selfish guy, like he doesn't
Speaker 2: really care. She points that out, She's like, you don't
Speaker 2: really care. He's like, well, you know whatever. He's kind
Speaker 2: of just aloof and apathetic. But then when she dies,
Speaker 2: he seems to be more concerned because then he starts
Speaker 2: wondering if something really is going on. And I like
Speaker 2: the idea that a lot of these seventies movies promoted.
Speaker 2: You know, this is like coming after Watergay Woodward Bernstein stuff.
Speaker 2: We are sold on the idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that.
Speaker 2: In the seventies or even in the sixties, right, that's
Speaker 2: like the height of intrepid journalists who are out there,
Speaker 2: ready to get the scoop at all costs, and the
Speaker 2: truth comes first. They're willing to die, they'll lose it
Speaker 2: all just to get the story, to expose the baddies
Speaker 2: and to get the word out. And now I think
Speaker 2: it is solidified in everyone's mind, this this idea, particularly
Speaker 2: maybe in the sixties and seventies, of the role of
Speaker 2: the journalist as the fourth estate. And I don't think
Speaker 2: they could have had that role without movies propping them up.
Speaker 2: You know, this is I mean, we're ess interiesally because
Speaker 2: nowadays we're living at the end of the fourth estate,
Speaker 2: and you know, legacy mainline journalism is literally dying before
Speaker 2: our eyes. In the last several years. Their numbers are tanking.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting to see the propaganda in the nineteen
Speaker 2: seventies that the journalist is out there, you know, to
Speaker 2: get the scoop at all costs. He's willing to even die,
Speaker 2: you know, to expose somebody, assassinating some politician, And of
Speaker 2: course that's not the truth about journalists at all. Anyway.
Speaker 2: Just a side note, that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, also, you know, his his boss Hume Cronin,
Speaker 1: who was this you know, old older Hollywood actor even
Speaker 1: in this movie early seventies, he's like one hundred years old.
Speaker 1: Has this counterpoint to the Jason Robard's character and all
Speaker 1: the presidents men in that film. Woodward Bernstein's boss seems,
Speaker 1: I mean, he seems to be on the surface at least,
Speaker 1: you know, he's running he's running the post or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, and he's you know, off, you know, and
Speaker 1: you got to find the evidence. And it's like a
Speaker 1: straight up journalist. He's the editor and he's pushing them
Speaker 1: and they're off doing their their shenanigans and their journalistic
Speaker 1: work and all this stuff. But in this movie, it's
Speaker 1: different because it's much more local and you go in
Speaker 1: and it's it's just one boss in there. There's one
Speaker 1: scene at the beginning where they go in there's like
Speaker 1: two guys in a kind of in a mirror, but
Speaker 1: in the rest of it, there's nobody in the office.
Speaker 1: And he takes like an unnatural ownership of his character,
Speaker 1: like he's a handler. He you know, he's he's he's
Speaker 1: offering him money. He has the money in the in
Speaker 1: the envelope, he talks about his personal life. You know,
Speaker 1: we gave you another chance. You know, you're best described
Speaker 1: as what does he say, like a hostile misfit before
Speaker 1: he before he goes on later to say that he
Speaker 1: has you know, blatant andy social behavior meet, which means
Speaker 1: I don't like to put up with people who are
Speaker 1: trying to fuck with me or whatever he says later
Speaker 1: on in the movie. But with the human cronin Boss
Speaker 1: is almost like this father figure. And the weird thing
Speaker 1: about this movie is again that I think when you
Speaker 1: first watch it, you're so even if people are young
Speaker 1: and they are watching it and they don't know who
Speaker 1: Warren Batty is, if they don't know the lore of
Speaker 1: Warren Bady or whatever, you watch the movie and you go,
Speaker 1: this guy is. You know, he's obviously a movie star.
Speaker 1: He's a striking guy. And part of the seventies thing
Speaker 1: is you watch him and you feel like you're watching
Speaker 1: Warren Baty play a role. But on a rewatch, you
Speaker 1: watch the movie and you go, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: watching a guy playing Warren Baty playing a role like that.
Speaker 1: He doesn't he doesn't have that many lines in the movie.
Speaker 1: He does weird things. He doesn't his personal life is
Speaker 1: very strange. He's like living in a motel and it's
Speaker 1: almost like am I missing something? And then by the
Speaker 1: end of the movie you kind of figure that out.
Speaker 1: And then like you were saying, you sort of start
Speaker 1: to think, is this guy somebody else? The whole time,
Speaker 1: Like he looks like a normal guy in the movie,
Speaker 1: but he also looks like a bomb at times, he
Speaker 1: looks like a you know, he just he looks he
Speaker 1: looks at the beginning, actually the first scene in the
Speaker 1: movie where you see him is before. Okay, so the
Speaker 1: movie opens, you see the the totem pole, you see
Speaker 1: the space needle, and then you wait for this weird
Speaker 1: like parade typical probably you know, political parade. It's like
Speaker 1: these Indonesians are dancing. And then you see this guy
Speaker 1: come on a fire truck like like Daniel da Lewis
Speaker 1: and gangs in New York or something, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I love Fourth of July. And then when you look
Speaker 1: at it, when we're looking side on and he goes
Speaker 1: up to be interviewed by the lady with the short
Speaker 1: hair who's baby's friend. Later you see Warren Bady in
Speaker 1: the background. He's behind like ten people, so he's not
Speaker 1: even in the he's not in the forefront. He's in
Speaker 1: the background of all these people. You see the guy
Speaker 1: in the in the foreground with the glasses on, the
Speaker 1: Austin Talker character. You see the lady. You're like, people
Speaker 1: are milling around, but you're like, what's this guy milling
Speaker 1: around in the background. And then when you rewatch the movie,
Speaker 1: you're like, this is this is an assassination. It's clearly
Speaker 1: about to happen with kind of sketchy characters in the background,
Speaker 1: but Warren Batty's one of them. And then when they
Speaker 1: go up into the space needles, what's interesting is that
Speaker 1: it's very quick. It's it almost happens right away. We
Speaker 1: have the waiters and we have like the switch off,
Speaker 1: the handoff with the tray, which doesn't like make sense
Speaker 1: in terms of continuity, because we see we see the
Speaker 1: actual assassin's face, which is clearly him. I mean like
Speaker 1: there's a post here and he kind of he kind
Speaker 1: of like comes out from behind this post. You're like,
Speaker 1: that's clearly the guy. And then they we watch the
Speaker 1: assassination take place from the little balcony outside of the
Speaker 1: glass so first we're inside of the thing, and I
Speaker 1: know that I know that the Gordon Willis, the guy
Speaker 1: who photographed the movie, said that what he liked about
Speaker 1: what he did with these movies was like, you can
Speaker 1: see the city scape, you can see Seattle in the background,
Speaker 1: but we're supposed to be concentrating on the characters in
Speaker 1: the foreground, but they're kind of shadowed, and so the
Speaker 1: exposure is is like, Hi, we see the outside, we
Speaker 1: don't see their their faces, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we go to the outside and we're looking into the
Speaker 1: space needle through the glass. And he said in an
Speaker 1: interview they asked him like, w what did you do
Speaker 1: this for artistic effect? And he said, well, like he
Speaker 1: was an older Hollywood guy, He's like, well, listen, the
Speaker 1: whole point of this, you know, is that if I'm
Speaker 1: doing a movie and I'm gonna shoot the movie and
Speaker 1: they say, all right, we need fifteen cuts here in
Speaker 1: this scene, that I cut the cuts. So basically, I say,
Speaker 1: we can get this done in three And the only
Speaker 1: reason he did the glass was for effect, because because
Speaker 1: it allowed for when he got shot, for him to
Speaker 1: streak down the glass and see the bloodstain. But he
Speaker 1: said all the intellectual interpretation comes later from other people,
Speaker 1: which is an interesting way to think about artists doing this.
Speaker 1: But what it shows this is that we're like looking
Speaker 1: in through we're looking through the looking glass on this
Speaker 1: thing that's happened on the inside, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden things start to change in terms of continuity. Because
Speaker 1: when they chase the waiter, who is one of the
Speaker 1: guys with the gun that later happens with Beatty, he runs,
Speaker 1: you know, after the assassination, and he runs on top
Speaker 1: of the space needle and they chase him. There's a
Speaker 1: great scene where he's on top and then they he
Speaker 1: falls and he trips and falls and falls off, gives
Speaker 1: a will A Wilhelm scream. But it doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: because we were just on the balcony. So there's a
Speaker 1: balcony here and then the space theedles, So if he
Speaker 1: fell off, he fall onto the balcony, but we assume
Speaker 1: that he falls off like into space. He falls off
Speaker 1: into the ground. But the whole point of that, I
Speaker 1: think is that, like you said, like our our perspective
Speaker 1: is distorted by events we don't know. We can't believe
Speaker 1: our lying eyes, and even though there's clearly two guys
Speaker 1: with the gun there, everybody's just gonna remember the one guy.
Speaker 1: There's even in that scene, there's even a woman in
Speaker 1: a polka dot dress. It's RFK r L. Later and
Speaker 1: all of the people that are that are there start
Speaker 1: to get start to disappear, and when they go through
Speaker 1: the list of people disappearing, I mean, it's exactly like JFK.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a news clipping and one of the
Speaker 2: names that's listed as sir Han. I'm not I don't
Speaker 2: know if the reference to, but it was probably there intentionally,
Speaker 2: just as a nod. And the same thing occurs with
Speaker 2: the way they play with the lighting when the handler
Speaker 2: comes to his apartment and sells him on coming to
Speaker 2: do the security stuff. At that point is basically you
Speaker 2: can't see his face, and so he's essentially become not
Speaker 2: He has no identity, You can't identify him anymore, and
Speaker 2: so that you're right to point out that he was
Speaker 2: probably profile because they saw him as a person at
Speaker 2: a breaking point who was really lost with no identity.
Speaker 2: The corporation will give you an identity, will tell you
Speaker 2: that you're, you know, the fittest hit man out there, Right,
Speaker 2: you're gonna get a Hitman of the Month award. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're a special person. So and they saw him on that.
Speaker 2: But I think the other elements, as you point out,
Speaker 2: is that this is a recurring motif that was already
Speaker 2: making its way into film after multiple hits including JFKRK. Okay,
Speaker 2: we're getting this recurring theme of the random loan shooter
Speaker 2: who is a nut, right, the loan Gunman's it's being
Speaker 2: criticized in the film as obviously not that not the case,
Speaker 2: But as you pointed out, we're only we only know
Speaker 2: what the official story is of these events, and so
Speaker 2: that's the parallox view, which is that there are there
Speaker 2: actually corporate merk squads that are hired by these cutout entities.
Speaker 2: And the answer is yes. And in fact, in the
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, the intelligence operations of this kind, these sort
Speaker 2: of black ops things, they get more and more privatized.
Speaker 2: There's a famous situation where Reagan privatized a lot of
Speaker 2: the intelligence in the nineteen eighties and took it away
Speaker 2: from the more normal sort of CIA role of who
Speaker 2: would have been doing this in the fifties and sixties,
Speaker 2: even under JFK. They were moving more of this stuff
Speaker 2: to be under the cover of NGA and other entities
Speaker 2: that weren't the classic sort of CIA, and let's you know,
Speaker 2: bring in a Green Beret sniper out of Vietnam to
Speaker 2: do this kind of stuff. Now it's turning into more
Speaker 2: and more of a privatized thing, and that's really probably
Speaker 2: the norm today is that this again it becomes prophetic
Speaker 2: in terms of how mercenaries and assassins would probably be
Speaker 2: recruited nowadays. So it also reminds me of, you know,
Speaker 2: Dave McGowan's Program to Kill books because her book and
Speaker 2: then other other books that have touched on this, which
Speaker 2: is there's a you know, the Navy guy Thomas Narreutu
Speaker 2: talked about the Navy recruiting psychopaths to be assassins a
Speaker 2: couple of decades ago, and the Phoenix program obviously is
Speaker 2: probably there's a nod probably to the Phenix program in
Speaker 2: this film, which was the William Colby plan during the
Speaker 2: Vietnam War to basically create psychopaths to terrorize the viet
Speaker 2: Cong to to win that conflict through terror. And then
Speaker 2: of course Dave McAllan theorizes that many of the some
Speaker 2: of the main serial killers that we know of might
Speaker 2: have been part of that program because they were trucked
Speaker 2: off the Vietnam. They did involved themselves in doing LSD
Speaker 2: and other things, and so it's very possible. It's interesting
Speaker 2: that there's not a lot of the drug emphasis in this,
Speaker 2: although he does say that one line that he thinks
Speaker 2: they drugged him at a bar one time. But I
Speaker 2: like that the method that they use is kind of ambiguous.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's corny because you just see this
Speaker 2: screen that flashes a bunch of like depression era images
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting here thinking this is.
Speaker 3: Kind of a low energy, very low energy depressing mk
Speaker 3: ultra thing where it's like it flash's mother, father, me,
Speaker 3: home country, God, enemy, happiness, father and mother.
Speaker 2: They show you know, Soviets and Cold War stuff, they
Speaker 2: show Castro. So I'm thinking, well, this is really just
Speaker 2: kind of the manipulation of archetypes. So it's a very
Speaker 2: sanitized Ludovico method, because, as you pointed out in Kubrick's
Speaker 2: version of Ludovico method, you get like actual you know
Speaker 2: t O R t U R E. You get you know,
Speaker 2: drugs presumably being given to to Alex. You get his
Speaker 2: eyes being forcibly kept open. You know, he has to
Speaker 2: watch just horrendous things. This is a lot more tame,
Speaker 2: a lot more boring, and we don't really know what
Speaker 2: it is, but it's almost like, well, Warren Beatty is
Speaker 2: the monkey right when he first walked into that to
Speaker 2: the Parallax Corporation, and then he's watching the monkey play
Speaker 2: the video games, which again there's this there's a symbolic
Speaker 2: prophetic significance there that the technocratic elite are going to
Speaker 2: make mankind be like a bunch of monkeys playing video games.
Speaker 2: This is think of the viral video a few years
Speaker 2: ago where the monkey was just scrolling on his Instagram feed, right,
Speaker 2: and he couldn't stop. So that's where we are, and
Speaker 2: Warren Beatty is the experimental test chump. Will be mind
Speaker 2: controlled too, or I mean, he's not explicitly mind controlled
Speaker 2: to be you know this like programmed assassin with trigger
Speaker 2: codes like we often think of it, but it's enough
Speaker 2: of it that he's kind of nudged into being at
Speaker 2: the right place in the right time to be the Patsy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because the thing with the monkey is,
Speaker 1: you know they still show videos of monkeys like playing pong,
Speaker 1: and they say, look, it's only a few years until
Speaker 1: you know, it's like the movie's from nineteen seventy four
Speaker 1: and it's doing it in that And you're right that
Speaker 1: the rockwell asque like still picture version of this with
Speaker 1: the awful song. I mean, it's almost like he's traumatized
Speaker 1: into the thing because the song is so bad. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, Mother and Daddy and it's like this seventies
Speaker 1: sort of country Joe in the fish like country song playing.
Speaker 1: I think I guess the point of that is that
Speaker 1: the difference between Alex undergoing this and him is that
Speaker 1: one we can't see Warren Baty's character undergoing it. He's
Speaker 1: far he's far away, just like we saw the court
Speaker 1: scene at the beginning with the bench and he just
Speaker 1: comes in and they say, you know, please sit down.
Speaker 1: He sits down willingly and watches this film which goes
Speaker 1: on for too long. But it's not like it's not
Speaker 1: like Alex in the Ludovico method, where Alex enjoys the
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm here to see the videos, you know,
Speaker 1: and he he's watching it and it's only it's actually
Speaker 1: in that film. It's like you said, it's the combination
Speaker 1: of drugs, the eyes, the straight jacket, probably electro shock
Speaker 1: or whatever, and they're not showing. And then the fact
Speaker 1: that they mix in all of the imagery with with
Speaker 1: a replay of crimes that he himself has done. So
Speaker 1: so it's like it's supposed to hit him and it's
Speaker 1: not until they add the auditory element. With Beethoven, it's
Speaker 1: like his programming, his programming code. But I sort of
Speaker 1: contrasted that with there's a I read this book on
Speaker 1: Mangola and it talks about the you know, some of
Speaker 1: the and and he and Klaus Barbie both did this
Speaker 1: in World War two, you know, and they get they hired. So, see,
Speaker 1: I hired Klaus Barbie because at the end of the
Speaker 1: war for people, for the folks at home, people did
Speaker 1: not know that at the end of the war, when
Speaker 1: the Allies were looking for, you know, somebody to deal
Speaker 1: with their new enemy, who better to deal with it
Speaker 1: than the guy who was tasked with, you know, infiltrating
Speaker 1: or or finding you know, breaking communists, I suppose. So
Speaker 1: one of the things that Klaus Barbie did was when
Speaker 1: they when they wanted to find out information or whatever.
Speaker 1: They snatched a guy. It's just like Phoenix program. When
Speaker 1: they snatched a guy. What they did was they asked
Speaker 1: him a bunch of questions and the guy would you know,
Speaker 1: he would lie or whatever, and they said, okay, that's fine, Well,
Speaker 1: for your service for being in here, and to apologize,
Speaker 1: we have a gift for you, and they would give
Speaker 1: him a gift and it was a box and it
Speaker 1: was just like in seven. They would unwrap the box
Speaker 1: and open the box and it was like his wife's
Speaker 1: head in the box and they would say now you know,
Speaker 1: now what do you think? And the guy would be
Speaker 1: completely shattered, completely broken, and they'd bring in other you know,
Speaker 1: people close to him that he knew, and they would say, now,
Speaker 1: this is gonna happen in front of you, So think
Speaker 1: I would be willing to just go, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: work for you whatever you want. And the Ludovico method
Speaker 1: like kind of sort of hints at that, not like
Speaker 1: that Alex. He's a psychopath anyway. But this movie is
Speaker 1: strange because it's because they are trying to find a
Speaker 1: person to do these things, but they've already found him
Speaker 1: because he walks into the thing. But also his daily
Speaker 1: life already is already in line with what they want.
Speaker 1: I mean, so so for instance, when he goes in
Speaker 1: and visits the like bar or whatever, and he's and
Speaker 1: he gets in the fight with the deputy and the sheriff.
Speaker 1: He gets out of it by he doesn't stop. I mean,
Speaker 1: he even comes in like through the wall and he's
Speaker 1: still fighting. And then when they take him to the dam,
Speaker 1: he fights the sheriff. When he steals the car, he
Speaker 1: crashes to the grocery store. It's very quick. He like
Speaker 1: crashes into the grocery store, runs out the back, gets
Speaker 1: in a truck, and leaves. He's got an amazing way
Speaker 1: of getting out of trouble. He can just kind of
Speaker 1: slip through anywhere. So I guess that's part of them finding,
Speaker 1: you know, this guy who seems to be able to
Speaker 1: infiltrate all these places. The craziest scene, though, to just
Speaker 1: sort of jump ahead here, the craziest scene is when
Speaker 1: he's tasked with like following the guy and he's the assassin.
Speaker 1: The assassin knows that he's being followed, right, and then
Speaker 1: he goes to the grocery store parking lot. He switches cars.
Speaker 1: He's got the suitcase, He goes to the airport, gets
Speaker 1: on the plane, and Warren Batty apparently, I guess at
Speaker 1: the seventies you could just walk right onto a tarmac
Speaker 1: and just walk right on a plane and play and
Speaker 1: pay right there. I mean, it's crazy, he just walks
Speaker 1: onto the plane. But that's not the crazy part. The
Speaker 1: craziest part is that when you rewatch the movie, you
Speaker 1: realize Warren Batty follows the guy onto the plane. He
Speaker 1: knows the guy has a bomb in his in in
Speaker 1: his suitcase. He tries to write on the mirror, he
Speaker 1: erases it, he writes it on the cocktail napkin, and
Speaker 1: then he calmly sits down and then waits for the
Speaker 1: plane to land and then just walks off the plane.
Speaker 1: And he has no emotion about it. But the fact
Speaker 1: is that he's followed a guy that he knew had
Speaker 1: to bomb onto a plane and gets on the plane
Speaker 1: anyway and then gets off again, which is insane. So
Speaker 1: so I guess he is the perfect guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the corporations, right, they have profiled him accurately. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's creating the unfortunately, the myth and the narrative
Speaker 2: that's perfect for him to be Patsy. You know, it
Speaker 2: makes me think of it's well, not the characters, but
Speaker 2: it's just similar patterns to the movie Shooter with Mark
Speaker 2: Wahlberg Marky Martin. But one thing I did want to
Speaker 2: mention that I forgot to mention was all that scene
Speaker 2: with the redneck sheriff and all that, and this had
Speaker 2: to be like around the time of Dukes of Hazzard, Like,
Speaker 2: so they just say, like, let's just put in a
Speaker 2: whole sequence that's like Dukes of Hazard level stuff, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even even the music gets crazy. I mean the
Speaker 1: score is Basil Polydorus and the car chase turns into
Speaker 1: like where where wait? I know, honk, you know, like
Speaker 1: crazy zany noises, and then they jump, you know, the
Speaker 1: cars jumping. Gordon Willis said that that when he was
Speaker 1: talking about the cuts in the movie and framing the movie,
Speaker 1: he said that the only scene that he disagreed with
Speaker 1: the director about was that particular scene. The first of all,
Speaker 1: he said, the fight scene. His expression was, he said,
Speaker 1: we had to Corey. You know, they had a choreograph
Speaker 1: this fight scene and he fights the sheriff and I
Speaker 1: was like, what are you doing? What is this? This
Speaker 1: doesn't fit in the movie. I don't. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: And then we had to go through this long, tedious
Speaker 1: car chase where it didn't make sense. That's my he
Speaker 1: said it was the least favorite scene that he's ever filmed.
Speaker 1: But I guess the point. The point is that, again,
Speaker 1: the things don't fit. It's like even the audience watching
Speaker 1: the thing, We've been watching this sort of heavy handed
Speaker 1: conspiracy movie and all of a sudden we're in some
Speaker 1: sort of zany car chase, like we're watching a movie
Speaker 1: like Warren Batty is in a movie of his own mind.
Speaker 1: So it you know, it's like the things, the things
Speaker 1: don't quite fit even when they By the way, did
Speaker 1: you notice that the deputy, the deputy that he fights
Speaker 1: at first, the weird guy who comes up to him
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey boy, yeah, did you know that that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you notice that that that guy is a Wilson,
Speaker 1: the neighbor in Home Improvement?
Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I noticed you did look familiar. And
Speaker 2: then I noticed the guy that he's talking to when
Speaker 2: he's riding that little train around the park. That's Auto,
Speaker 2: who plays the the owner of the ranch in Malcolm
Speaker 2: in the Middle.
Speaker 1: So there you go. The movie predicted a lot.
Speaker 2: Of weird figures up later and other things.
Speaker 1: Well, the train scene is weird because you know, he's
Speaker 1: got to go talk to a guy and they're going
Speaker 1: to go talk about a pulmonary embolism pill, a pet
Speaker 1: pill that you know, is that the same thing Frank
Speaker 1: Church talked about, you know, at the at the church
Speaker 1: hearings when they talked about the heart attack gun and
Speaker 1: the the things that get and this is before that.
Speaker 1: I suppose, so the weapons that can mimic a heart attack,
Speaker 1: there'd be no there'd be no evidence of it. But
Speaker 1: it's crazy because they're sitting on toy trains, like I
Speaker 1: guess they're hiding in plain sight, but and there there's movement.
Speaker 1: They're they're constantly moving through the narrative of the movie,
Speaker 1: but they're like they're on these toy trains like it's
Speaker 1: a I don't I don't know what that is. It's
Speaker 1: some sort of like like it's a game. I suppose,
Speaker 1: like he's on a he's on a track that he
Speaker 1: can't get off of until the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: or it's some sort of game he's playing like he's
Speaker 1: a child on on adventures it was very strange, very
Speaker 1: strange place to to talk to this guy. And and
Speaker 1: the the strangest scene for me that I can't really
Speaker 1: understand is the first time we see him after three
Speaker 1: years and Warren Batty like knocks on this door and
Speaker 1: it's this old you know, couple inside and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, my parents in the backyard. I need to
Speaker 1: get my parent and he just walks into the house
Speaker 1: and then he turns around and again is looking through
Speaker 1: the looking glass into the house, and then there's like
Speaker 1: a drug raid and I can't I can't understand what
Speaker 1: he was doing. Was he was he investigating something? What
Speaker 1: was it said? It's almost like he shows up at
Speaker 1: the house not knowing what he's doing there and sing.
Speaker 2: Like you said, like like he's wandering through all of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the fact that he's looking for his parent also,
Speaker 1: it's like like he's parroting the things that he's supposed
Speaker 1: to say. And there's a there's a weird drug raid
Speaker 1: almost like this is the part where he's going to
Speaker 1: be compromised into whatever the program is, because he ends
Speaker 1: up getting bailed out by human cronin and they're going
Speaker 1: to charge him with a bunch of stuff, but he's
Speaker 1: going to get it, but he kind of talks his
Speaker 1: way out of It's almost like a first test. But
Speaker 1: how did he how did he get there? What's he doing?
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah I didn't even catch that. That's
Speaker 2: a good point. Yeah, he made some really good points too,
Speaker 2: about how like his character is not like he he
Speaker 2: doesn't at all act like a normal person. And I
Speaker 2: think that's why they call him an unusual personality. Right
Speaker 2: when the guy comes to talk to me, says, you know,
Speaker 2: we're really in the business of looking for unusual personalities,
Speaker 2: and we think you fit it. And the first time
Speaker 2: I watched it, I didn't really pay attention to that.
Speaker 2: I just thought was just this journalist who's like trying
Speaker 2: to get a scoop. And then then this this next
Speaker 2: time through, it's like, no, there's a lot more that's
Speaker 2: off with him that you don't realize the first time through.
Speaker 2: And then you start to notice more and more, like
Speaker 2: how messed up he really is. And they've figured that out.
Speaker 2: You're figuring that out, like the corporation has figured that out,
Speaker 2: and they're just tweaking him into their nudging him into
Speaker 2: being the perfect Patsy. That again, to bring it to
Speaker 2: like modern day, that's a lot more likely what I
Speaker 2: think happened in the last big event. You know, according
Speaker 2: to the the official story of who the person is
Speaker 2: in terms of the shooter, if that's that guy Crooks,
Speaker 2: you know, he seems to be this kind of a
Speaker 2: person this I mean, not identical to Warren Baty, but
Speaker 2: a person who's nudged into this situation. And when I
Speaker 2: talked to Sammy the Bull right after it had happened,
Speaker 2: he said, well, if I was doing this, that's what
Speaker 2: I would have done. I would find somebody who would
Speaker 2: be a suitable, perfect Patsy candidate. He says, we would
Speaker 2: have told him we'll give him the moon, right, we're
Speaker 2: going to promise you all this stuff. You're going to
Speaker 2: be a hero. Don't worry, we're gonna protect you. But
Speaker 2: we have a contingency plan all along that he would
Speaker 2: be taken out right right. And I think that's, you know,
Speaker 2: the exact same attitude of the corporation here parallax. And
Speaker 2: I think this also again fits with probably the way
Speaker 2: things really occur is that people are profiled, not because
Speaker 2: the establishment is ultimately a bunch of he who bust crimes.
Speaker 2: I mean they're pro crimes are busted on a mid
Speaker 2: and low level, but at this kind of a level. No,
Speaker 2: they're profiling individuals to find out who's a suitable, useful psychopath.
Speaker 2: It can be a tool for this sort of you know,
Speaker 2: super international corporate entity that's knock bound by any rules
Speaker 2: or laws. And I thought it was fascinating too that
Speaker 2: they used these all kinds of methods. I mean they
Speaker 2: poison you know, his editor, they will sniper other people.
Speaker 2: I mean they have all the means at their disposal,
Speaker 2: and they have a very adept stagecraft. And essentially the
Speaker 2: whole final sequence is getting Warren Bady into the position
Speaker 2: of being in the rafters at not the actual event,
Speaker 2: which is fascinating because they didn't do it at an
Speaker 2: actual event. They do it at the rehearsal, which makes
Speaker 2: more sense to actually get the job done. And you know,
Speaker 2: he's in the exactly the position that they wanted him,
Speaker 2: so he's played the entire time and he ends up
Speaker 2: becoming the perfect Patsy because he fit the profile of
Speaker 2: the perfect Patsy. But that stage craft dimension, I thought
Speaker 2: was pretty fascinating that well. The first time I watched it,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, he's a Patsy, but I didn't
Speaker 2: think about how how well the corporation had played him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, car crashes, playing crash is poisoning, drug overdose, heart attacks,
Speaker 1: it's all the sort of common things. The scene with
Speaker 1: the sheriff and the deputy reminded me also of JFK
Speaker 1: with the the event happens and then they roll out
Speaker 1: the Patsy. He says he's a Patsy, and then this
Speaker 1: guy in a ten gallon hat comes out, you know,
Speaker 1: in the famous photograph, And it was just like that.
Speaker 1: Also all of the movies and books that I've read
Speaker 1: with you know, with Leo's acting as as sort of
Speaker 1: hired enforcement for this, and one of the things in
Speaker 1: the movie is there's a continuous like series of initiations
Speaker 1: into this, and one of those is obviously with the deputy.
Speaker 1: You know, the deputy comes up, insults him, degrades him.
Speaker 1: It's in a public place. There's a honeypot right there,
Speaker 1: there's a you know, spring Mere mk betas sex kitten
Speaker 1: that comes up right right up to him in the bar.
Speaker 1: You know, and when you watch the movie, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the two guys, the two Hillbillies or whatever in the
Speaker 1: bar are going to be angry because the girls got
Speaker 1: up and left. But actually they let the fight go on,
Speaker 1: and he's even I mean again, he's like even being
Speaker 1: thrown through walls. They destroyed the bar, until finally the
Speaker 1: sheriff just cool, cool, calm and collected. It's like, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have let it go on too long if I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be bad. Let's go fishing.
Speaker 1: And then he takes him to the very scene where
Speaker 1: the last guy was killed and where the last guy
Speaker 1: was he walks right into this and this is a
Speaker 1: crazy see if you guys haven't seen this movie, it's
Speaker 1: a crazy scene because he goes to this dam and
Speaker 1: we get this giant wall, the giant you know, cement wall,
Speaker 1: this concrete wall, and they're the rocks and there's this
Speaker 1: this little stream. He kind of goes down to investigate,
Speaker 1: and you hear this just huge siren. It reminded me
Speaker 1: of that new movie The Zone of the Zone of
Speaker 1: I forget the Zone movie about the World War two thing.
Speaker 1: This loud almost like programming siren to to snap you
Speaker 1: into whatever. It is and it's so loud, and all
Speaker 1: the water coming out. It's like the waters are rushing.
Speaker 1: The things are about to happen, just like with the train,
Speaker 1: you know that there's gonna be a flood of events.
Speaker 1: And they don't move. They're just standing there. And he
Speaker 1: turns around and the guy, the sheriff is holding a
Speaker 1: gun on him, and he quickly like well, he like
Speaker 1: snaps him in the head with a fishing rod and
Speaker 1: he's got to fish. It's so fasty and he whips
Speaker 1: him with it and then he they fall. They of course,
Speaker 1: they fall into the river. Which is my thing, Like
Speaker 1: if you're whatever, I watch movies and and this happens
Speaker 1: and you're being chased, I always think, just jump into
Speaker 1: the water, just get away. This guy, the sheriff is
Speaker 1: so fat anyway, he's you know, like swimming away from
Speaker 1: the guy. He gets up, steals the sheriff's car, goes
Speaker 1: to his house. He goes right to his house, goes
Speaker 1: right into his house, walks right into his library, walks
Speaker 1: opens the drawer and he finds the leaflets. For now
Speaker 1: he's I guess he's been initiated into this thing. And
Speaker 1: here's the here's the the you know Phoenix program test
Speaker 1: list of do you've in? The list is hilarious. It's like,
Speaker 1: do you ever feel like you have no friends? Do
Speaker 1: you ever feel like everyone's against you? Do you do
Speaker 1: you wish you could blow torch the whole world? Then
Speaker 1: and then of course then he goes to the MK
Speaker 1: culture Lab. But it's almost like a series of initiations
Speaker 1: and and Baty is is very weird. I know Warren
Speaker 1: Batty was Warren Batty before this was in his real life,
Speaker 1: was in the Governed Inner Circle right before the movie
Speaker 1: was made. He was like close friends with McGovern and
Speaker 1: then they couldn't make the movie because there was a
Speaker 1: writer strike, but he pushed the movie through it anyway.
Speaker 1: I guess is it George McGovern?
Speaker 2: Oh? I thought you mentioned CIA analyst Raymond Govern.
Speaker 1: I think it's George was a big yeah, a big
Speaker 1: Democrat donor for them. Warren Betty is also from here,
Speaker 1: by the way, he's from He's from Richmond. Warren Beatty
Speaker 1: and his older sister Charley McLain are from weirdly or
Speaker 1: from here, and and like they weren't just born here,
Speaker 1: they grew up here. And uh. And also the writer
Speaker 1: of the book Laura, his name is Lauren Singer. Was
Speaker 1: oss and his name is Lauren Adeleston Singer. I couldn't
Speaker 1: find any connection with the obvious, obvious person. But but
Speaker 1: it always plays out this way. It always plays out
Speaker 1: that the outer events, like you were saying that the state,
Speaker 1: you know, the stage craft of the events themselves always
Speaker 1: seemed to mirror and mimic the making of the movie itself. Right.
Speaker 1: So Three Days of the Condor, there's that famous picture
Speaker 1: that was in Vanity Fair or whatever of of Richard
Speaker 1: Helms and what's his name? Well, what's what's the actor's
Speaker 1: name in Three Days of the Condor? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. Sundance Film, Sundance Film Festival. What's
Speaker 1: the guy all the presidents met Dustin Hoffman and I
Speaker 1: can't think of the seventies actor, the big guy somebody
Speaker 1: in the chat. What's the guy's names? Donald Donald Sutherland
Speaker 1: was in this guy's previous movie, which is clute. But
Speaker 1: Robert Redford, it's what I'm thinking. Robert Redford and Richard
Speaker 1: Helms are off, they're on. Richard Helms came to visit,
Speaker 1: came to visit the set of Three Days of the
Speaker 1: condor that that's a paid consultant for this. So it's
Speaker 1: it's very it's very weird. The stage crafts the sort
Speaker 1: of stagecraft element as if, and that obviously comes to
Speaker 1: play with the argo you know where we have Hollywood
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, uh, working with intelligence. But I think the
Speaker 1: weirdest part of this movie is that, like you know,
Speaker 1: you were mentioning before that, the I think the reason
Speaker 1: the movie is successful is because the Shenanigans aren't too
Speaker 1: It's like the programming scene, it's it's very matter of fact.
Speaker 1: There's no you know, mind bending psychic break. We go
Speaker 1: to the office of the corporation. They literally have human
Speaker 1: engineering on the kiosk to go up into the place.
Speaker 1: The guy comes and visit him. He's walking around. They
Speaker 1: go to grocery stores. It's a very matter of fact,
Speaker 1: which I don't know what that what that means, other
Speaker 1: than it says to me that sometimes the you know,
Speaker 1: there's the there's the deep sea spiracy, but there's also
Speaker 1: the hit just completely hidden in plain sight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he reminds the psychology of Warren Batty as
Speaker 2: this protagonist reminds me of Nick Cage and eight Millimeter
Speaker 2: like nick cage and eight millimeter is kind of messed up,
Speaker 2: and he can't quit following this rabbit hole, right, Like,
Speaker 2: even though there's every red flag possible is constantly in
Speaker 2: his face, he can't stop, right, He must pursue this
Speaker 2: for whatever reason for And it's sort of like why
Speaker 2: is he doing this? Right? I mean, he's lost everything
Speaker 2: and you know, but he continues with this. There's another
Speaker 2: movie we just watched that also on the stagecraft point,
Speaker 2: reminds me of this film. Have you ever seen the
Speaker 2: Brian de Palma nineteen eighty four movie Body Double?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I was just talking about that with somebody
Speaker 1: the other day. Yeah, it's another one of these, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Body Double. The main character is an actor
Speaker 2: who can't find work. Well, he has work, but he
Speaker 2: has a crippling claustrophobia. And this other prominent guy, wealthy
Speaker 2: actor guy utilizes this weakness in him as this character
Speaker 2: who's sort of led along this path entire time to
Speaker 2: play a role as the eye witness to a staged murder.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a murder, but it's it's all stage
Speaker 2: and it's not what you think it is. And uh,
Speaker 2: it's a situation where this you know, high level Hollywood
Speaker 2: person is utilizing the tricks of Hollywood to to beat
Speaker 2: the cops. And he's even casting his traumatized friend or
Speaker 2: not really a friend but his buddy. And then there's
Speaker 2: this really weird voyeuristic sort of Melie Griffith. There's those
Speaker 2: like meta levels of voyeurism where he's intended to be voyeurized,
Speaker 2: voyeuristically looking at people through a window, and then he's
Speaker 2: other people are watching the whole thing, and it's it's
Speaker 2: and then it turns into him having to become enter
Speaker 2: into the world of prawn and take on an alternate.
Speaker 2: It's almost like he's a mind controlled individual as well,
Speaker 2: because he's traumatized. So the main character there is is
Speaker 2: more of a weak traumatized persons micaetrol person. Warren Batty
Speaker 2: is not at all weak. He's sort of like the
Speaker 2: the ultimate assassin, I guess you could say, because he
Speaker 2: really fears nothing, Like, no point does he. I mean,
Speaker 2: he only really fears his own end, but nothing else,
Speaker 2: right he wants Yeah, I don't even think he cares
Speaker 2: about the scoop anymore. Right, at a certain point, it's
Speaker 2: just sort of like he can't resist continuing down this path,
Speaker 2: like why why wouldn't you just walk away? At a
Speaker 2: certain point when he realizes what he's up against.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's on a trajectory, like with the
Speaker 1: train scene, that he doesn't show any indication of human feelings.
Speaker 1: I mean when he's confronted by his girlfriend or his
Speaker 1: friend or whatever, and she, you know, she says to him, oh,
Speaker 1: all these things are happening, and then she that's a
Speaker 1: great scene because that actress is in just like those
Speaker 1: two scenes, and she's great because when she shows up,
Speaker 1: we assume there's a relationship or a former relationship between them,
Speaker 1: even if it's just that they happen to be the
Speaker 1: same event before or they were both journalists or whatever.
Speaker 1: But she's trying to tell him what's happening, and he
Speaker 1: says to her, you know, she says, I'm in fear
Speaker 1: for my life and he's like, oh, more in fear
Speaker 1: than you were the last time. And she says, I've
Speaker 1: never committed suicide successfully before. And then and and then
Speaker 1: the the drug scene or the overdose scene happens, I guess,
Speaker 1: and then he's in the you know, he goes to
Speaker 1: visit her in the which is another strange scene because
Speaker 1: when when we see her lying on the slab in
Speaker 1: the morgue, we see her and we see the two
Speaker 1: doctors talking, and then it's only after they leave the
Speaker 1: room that Warren Betty, who's off he's off frame, comes
Speaker 1: into frame like he's now walking into this into this
Speaker 1: new this new life or whatever. But nowhere in the
Speaker 1: movie does he show anything other than that he wants,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like he wants to continue, he needs money,
Speaker 1: he needs an advance. And even the scene where it's
Speaker 1: just the strangest scene where he's at home and he's
Speaker 1: cooking and he gets a knock on the door and
Speaker 1: the guy comes in, and this is clearly he knows
Speaker 1: he's being hunted. He's been hunted. Everybody knows he's in
Speaker 1: this thing now. But he lets he's like, he leaves
Speaker 1: the door open. He's like, well, I guess you can
Speaker 1: come in if you want to. And the guy walks
Speaker 1: in and this is the guy who's gonna be his handler,
Speaker 1: and he's he just turns around and then the guy's
Speaker 1: this line. He says, so how tall are you six
Speaker 1: six' one of the guy says at Warren band He
Speaker 1: says six to two and then he's like, you, I
Speaker 1: thought you were taller than that. And he's like, who
Speaker 1: gives a fuck how tall I am, buddy? And then
Speaker 1: he you notice in that scene when he's cooking, he
Speaker 1: like burns his hand and he drops it and he
Speaker 1: likes spat. He freaks out. He has a spats and
Speaker 1: the guy like has this slight smile on his face,
Speaker 1: this smirk, and he's like, yeah, you're just the guy.
Speaker 1: You're just the unhinged guy that we want, you know,
Speaker 1: telling him to put water in ice on it like
Speaker 1: he is if he's in a grown man who doesn't
Speaker 1: know what to do after he's burned his hand. But
Speaker 1: he needs these these handlers throughout the movie. And he
Speaker 1: only freaks out in the very last scene when he
Speaker 1: sees the light from the door open and he starts
Speaker 1: running towards the door as if he can get away.
Speaker 1: And that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was watching that. I was wondering, like, why
Speaker 2: does he lay there so long? Because if he had
Speaker 2: gotten out when he first sees the doorway, he might
Speaker 2: have made it, but he hesitates for so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he also crawls down onto the thing
Speaker 1: where the gun was so he walks right you know,
Speaker 1: he goes right into it, which is also kind of
Speaker 1: indicative of the beginning of the movie when the waiter,
Speaker 1: the guy who was hit his role at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the movie, also runs out into the light into
Speaker 1: the outside and also falls down onto something else. And
Speaker 1: it's also that he continuously walks right into the places
Speaker 1: where the other people have been assassinated, so like with
Speaker 1: the plane scene or with the damn scene. The other
Speaker 1: scene that we haven't mentioned is when he finally finds
Speaker 1: Austin Tucker, the guy with the glasses at the beginning,
Speaker 1: who is the political consultant who's who apparently has enough
Speaker 1: money to insulate himself and he has a you know,
Speaker 1: he sends his bodyguard to go find him. But I
Speaker 1: was watching, Yeah, when I was watching the movie for
Speaker 1: the first time, they get on the boat and I
Speaker 1: was thinking, don't get on this boat, dude. You think
Speaker 1: you're you're safe everywhere, you know, anywhere you go, the
Speaker 1: boat is the don't even you read the things. The
Speaker 1: boat is the last place you're going to be safe.
Speaker 1: So he gets on the boat. They're sailing. The guy
Speaker 1: does this weird thing where he like takes a nap
Speaker 1: for five minutes and then he gets back up. He's
Speaker 1: back at the back of the boat with his bodyguard,
Speaker 1: and then the boat blows up and baby just like
Speaker 1: jumps off the boat into the water. But I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, this is r Max Maxwell was killed on
Speaker 1: the boat. I was just rereading about mount Batton. Mount
Speaker 1: Batten was assassinated on his boat in Sligo and that.
Speaker 2: One's William Colby went boating and never returned.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, the I guess on the Potomac, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, and like you think about what is skull
Speaker 1: and bones like more than going yachting, I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's this is this is their thing. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's connected, but I'm just saying that I
Speaker 1: was rereading about the mount Batten thing in the seventies,
Speaker 1: and what happened with that was that mount Batten was
Speaker 1: in County Sligo at his house and the bomber, this
Speaker 1: guy Thomas McMahon, found out that he was there and
Speaker 1: put the bomb on the boat. And when he had
Speaker 1: he had notoriously lacked security. And mount Batten's statement about
Speaker 1: it was who wants to kill an old guy? Anyway,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, Royal family connected, so they they
Speaker 1: there was no security and then there was recently. I
Speaker 1: think there was a guy who who came out after
Speaker 1: the Good Friday agreement and said, yeah, he put the
Speaker 1: bomb on the boat, but I'm the guy who planned it.
Speaker 1: The guy who planned it was X Army. So other words,
Speaker 1: you know, that also is weird because that there's I've
Speaker 1: read that that's somehow intelligence had something to do with
Speaker 1: that because of mount Batten's the creepy things in his
Speaker 1: life for how he was compromising the royal families and
Speaker 1: they wanted him eliminated anyway, and and British intelligence was
Speaker 1: partly running IRA anyway, they ran. Yeah, the chief spy
Speaker 1: catcher for the IRA and the r IRA Army Council
Speaker 1: was the Sky Fred.
Speaker 2: They also set up a brathel using a Jewish organized
Speaker 2: gangster guy in the Ireland that entrapped several of the
Speaker 2: IRA and they did a bunch of false flags playing
Speaker 2: on the IRA.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, the chiefs spy catcher was the top
Speaker 1: I RA Spy, which came out in two thousand and
Speaker 1: three when I was living there. He was he was
Speaker 1: he was a British agent and he was the chief
Speaker 1: spy catcher for his whole job was for the Army
Speaker 1: Council for the IRA to catch spies that were that
Speaker 1: were you know, niche and on the IRA. And he
Speaker 1: was an agent of course, which is just like the
Speaker 1: Departed or something. But uh, but yeah, so he gets
Speaker 1: off the boat, you know, and he escapes and he
Speaker 1: and he walks right into this thing. And it's just interesting.
Speaker 1: I think that with with these seventies films, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what the I mean, the point seems too obvious
Speaker 1: to make. I know that that the director one of
Speaker 1: one of his statements about his films, he did this,
Speaker 1: he did Clute and All the President's Men, and one
Speaker 1: of his statements was, oh, and he did The Devil's
Speaker 1: Own which is an IRA movie, which is ties into this.
Speaker 1: But one of his statements was that he wanted people
Speaker 1: in the cinema to look at the person next to
Speaker 1: them with a little more suspicion, you know, to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more uneasy about what you see in
Speaker 1: your daily life, which kind of you know, plays into
Speaker 1: the post post Watergate era, post Vietnam and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting that what we've seen since then, and
Speaker 1: with the event that just happened with Trump and and
Speaker 1: you know, these things seem to come to light more
Speaker 1: and more, and especially with the one that just happened,
Speaker 1: you know, in plain sight on television. You wonder, what's
Speaker 1: the what's the end goal besides the kind of you know,
Speaker 1: is it future shock? Is it terrorizing the public, is
Speaker 1: it making them uneasy, make giving you know, a continuous
Speaker 1: sense of chaos. Is it making people not you know,
Speaker 1: not believe they're lying eyes? I mean, what what is it? What?
Speaker 1: What's what's the end goal with just the continuous series
Speaker 1: of these events.
Speaker 2: Well, when Telfler talks about future shock, he means that
Speaker 2: things are coming that we're going to that are going
Speaker 2: to be so upending, so such upheavals that society won't
Speaker 2: be able to process it. So there's things that are
Speaker 2: coming that are just going to be mind blowing with tech,
Speaker 2: with the way that lifestyles will change. You know, he
Speaker 2: was he was writing the nineteen seventies about alterations and
Speaker 2: diet and people transitioning into new ways of living, polycules, vegetarianism, anarchism.
Speaker 2: You know, Telfler was saying that all that would be
Speaker 2: utilized and basically pushing us into the technocratic future. And
Speaker 2: there is this subtle technocratic theme which is hinted at
Speaker 2: throughout this movie again with the human engineering, the monkeys,
Speaker 2: the video games, all of that, is that just as
Speaker 2: they're they're playing and then being studied, you know, beaties
Speaker 2: being played and being studied, and so in the same way,
Speaker 2: the attitude of the technocrats is to view the humans
Speaker 2: in general in this in this way. So I think
Speaker 2: I read it, even with the technocratic theme here that
Speaker 2: really we're all Warren battis being studied and being moved
Speaker 2: into the kind of future where we can be managed
Speaker 2: like labrats, like you know, monkeys. There's a book that
Speaker 2: came out World as a laboratory, which is which is
Speaker 2: this this mindset?
Speaker 1: But yeah, is the so is the scene with the
Speaker 1: you know, the Ludovico scene in this is the point
Speaker 1: that I mean, there's it starts off with you know,
Speaker 1: it's just still I mean we mentioned but but it's
Speaker 1: still scenes and words flashing on the screen and still
Speaker 1: images sort of archetypal images, and then it slowly starts
Speaker 1: to dissociate. So now we start to associate, Like it
Speaker 1: says you know, country, and then we show scenes from Vietnam,
Speaker 1: and then there's father and there's like a kid running
Speaker 1: in the hall, and then we see like hanging, you know,
Speaker 1: we start to see more and more grotesque imagery. But
Speaker 1: is it slow like did they pace it that way
Speaker 1: in the film, because it's a kind of slow burn
Speaker 1: for the for the audience watching it. I mean, one
Speaker 1: of the things about Clockwork Orange is that is that
Speaker 1: when I watched the movie, I'm like, well, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've seen it a million times. It's not it's not
Speaker 1: shocking to me. But obviously the movie is shocking still
Speaker 1: to some people, even with the implications you know, in
Speaker 1: the movie, and and also that it's it's also interesting
Speaker 1: that the movie was banned in England by Kubrick. He's
Speaker 1: the one who pulled it from what so it makes
Speaker 1: me think, what did you make the movie to play it?
Speaker 1: Only to pull the movie because the absence of the
Speaker 1: imagery actually going to the theater is more shocking than
Speaker 1: actually seeing the movie. And does it drive you know,
Speaker 1: does it drive sales? Does it you know all the
Speaker 1: sort of typical things. But but it's like there's a
Speaker 1: veneer about the film that it's so bad that it
Speaker 1: can't even be shown in England, so it kind of
Speaker 1: drives it drives interest in it in America or whatever.
Speaker 1: But is this my point is is all this happening
Speaker 1: because this is the kind of thing that we deal
Speaker 1: with now, for instance, like with doom Scroll, with the
Speaker 1: you know, obviously we are people are completely desensitized to things.
Speaker 1: But is it a constant refresh right of the screen.
Speaker 1: Is it just scrolling where you see? You can you know,
Speaker 1: you get on TikTok and a person could see, especially
Speaker 1: a young person could see cats and you know, flowery
Speaker 1: scenes in America or flags mixed in with you know,
Speaker 1: murders and execution war.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it is like disorienting because it's like a
Speaker 2: constant machine gun array and there's no real consistent, consistent
Speaker 2: pattern to it except that some of the images and
Speaker 2: words repeat. So maybe we're also supposed to think of subliminals.
Speaker 2: It was also kind of becoming popular at this night,
Speaker 2: at this time to know about subliminals. This was like
Speaker 2: some of the first points at which people were thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: they're actually putting I mean, in other words, I know,
Speaker 2: subliminal advertising goes earlier than this, but people were starting
Speaker 2: to figure this out around this time. There was also
Speaker 2: those subliminals, for example, that Aaron and Melissa had had
Speaker 2: discovered over a truth stream some years back, where they
Speaker 2: had noticed the old public service announcements that would come
Speaker 2: on when the TVs would go at night, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about when the channels would go off, they
Speaker 2: would play the national anthem, and they had discovered that
Speaker 2: there were subliminals within the national anthem that was being played,
Speaker 2: and the subliminals were very reminiscent of what you see
Speaker 2: in the movie. It's stuff like, you know, follow the
Speaker 2: state worship, you know God, remember your country, you know,
Speaker 2: just weird stuff like that. So that it made me
Speaker 2: think of that. And it is interesting again that it's
Speaker 2: so innocuous in terms of that he's not really doing
Speaker 2: anything other than sitting in a chair and they say
Speaker 2: and make sure to put your hands inside the holsters
Speaker 2: or whatever. He's got to put his hands inside of something,
Speaker 2: and he's not supposed to move. But when you compare
Speaker 2: this to the other images and films that we get,
Speaker 2: like we watched a Total Recall because I just wrote
Speaker 2: the chapter and start calling with three on Total Recall,
Speaker 2: and like that's this just totally invasive, like brain machine
Speaker 2: that you sit in. It's like, you know, Arnold's losing
Speaker 2: his mind, going full like Arnold gasm over there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you've got you know, other presentations like you said,
Speaker 2: like the Ludovico method. I don't know, I'm just contrasting
Speaker 2: all of the.
Speaker 1: Or Jacob's Ladder, Like you know, we watched the Ladder
Speaker 1: and it's just the absolute most hellish.
Speaker 2: Well remember Return to Oz and they put they put
Speaker 2: her on the electro shock table. Yeah, trap her down.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that that that film kind of has
Speaker 1: a almost an Exorcist thing, well sort of, I mean
Speaker 1: in the in the sense of you know the famous
Speaker 1: scene in The Exorcist where they they had to sigh
Speaker 1: up and putting pazuzu, you know, flashing three times throughout
Speaker 1: the film and the kind of uh. But but that
Speaker 1: movie's different because because if you're going to test audiences
Speaker 1: as far as what can drive them to their extreme point,
Speaker 1: the movie already begins the movie. The tone of the
Speaker 1: movie is already so horrible, right, So the beginning of
Speaker 1: the movie is already silence and the sound of wind,
Speaker 1: and then you know, juxtaposed with pictures of statues of
Speaker 1: pazuzu and faces looking at you, and then mixed in
Speaker 1: with I think the real subliminal thing in that movie
Speaker 1: is the fact that that the girl in The Exorcist
Speaker 1: is mimicking what the her mom's boyfriend says to her downstairs.
Speaker 1: So all of the this, I think there's something to that.
Speaker 1: The fact that the sexual creepy stuff that she says
Speaker 1: when she's possessed is indicative of the fact that the
Speaker 1: possession and the the a b u s the go
Speaker 1: hand in hand with what made her that way. And
Speaker 1: because you could you can hear, like when she starts
Speaker 1: really cursing in the movie and saying the overtly sexual stuff.
Speaker 1: You can hear the guys say it earlier in the
Speaker 1: movie when he's downstairs at the party, and it's sort
Speaker 1: of you sort of imply, it implies that she was
Speaker 1: left alone with this guy at the house, and so
Speaker 1: she's mimicking. You know. That's that's the sort of a
Speaker 1: subliminal thing in the movie where we can't really why
Speaker 1: why did this happen? Where did this come from? Other
Speaker 1: than the fact that the mother also in that movie
Speaker 1: is an actress, right.
Speaker 2: The author explicitly worked for. And then what's interesting, it's
Speaker 2: and a lot of people consider one of the worst
Speaker 2: movies ever if you make it to I think it's
Speaker 2: Part three Extracists two. Now maybe I'm thinking of too,
Speaker 2: the one that has uh Richard Burton in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's considered one of the worst movies ever. But
Speaker 2: the beginning of the film, it's this secret government thing
Speaker 2: that's studying children like Linda Blair and others who have
Speaker 2: had these issues, and they specifically say autistic children. So
Speaker 2: this is some sort of odd government almost mk ulture
Speaker 2: type of project that's going on. Yeah, And I mean
Speaker 2: it keeps with the theme of you know, the Satanic
Speaker 2: and all that. But then in the third one with
Speaker 2: the Gemini Killer, we also have these themes of again
Speaker 2: Phoenix program, program to kill type stuff. Uh. And as
Speaker 2: you probably know, Dahmer was a odd obsessive fan of
Speaker 2: the Gemini Killer version, yeah, the part three, and he
Speaker 2: would supposedly watch it and just rock back and forth
Speaker 2: watching his PHS tape of three.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did an analysis of William Peter Bladdy's book,
Speaker 1: which is called Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane terrifying title and
Speaker 1: and there's a movie called The Nine Configuration, Yes, which
Speaker 1: has starts Stacy Keach in it, And that's a blatant
Speaker 1: Phoenix Program movie, I mean and again in that the
Speaker 1: protagonist of the movie is playing an unwinning role in
Speaker 1: finding himself in the very position that he does at
Speaker 1: the end at the end of the book, at the
Speaker 1: end of the film, where he's he's been hunting himself.
Speaker 1: So if people remember, like he's he's brought into this
Speaker 1: castle with a bunch of people that have gone you know,
Speaker 1: they've they've Section eight or whatever from the army during Vietnam.
Speaker 1: One of the guys is a is a supposed to
Speaker 1: be an astronaut, and they're put they're trying to put
Speaker 1: on a Shakespearean production and they're all actors in this
Speaker 1: kind of marat sade avant garde Shakespearean production within a
Speaker 1: castle where they're they end up sort of playing the
Speaker 1: fools or playing themselves. And the psychiatrist who's brought in
Speaker 1: to to diagnose them is Stacy Keach. And then he
Speaker 1: later and in the end of the film spoiler people
Speaker 1: at the end of the film, at the end of
Speaker 1: the book, he's broken in this fight where he's trying
Speaker 1: to defend the astronaut who's being stomped on by this
Speaker 1: motorcycle just like Kenneth Anger Scorpio Rising motorcycle gang in
Speaker 1: a in a bar, and he breaks to the extent
Speaker 1: where he realizes he is Kane's he's Killer Kane, the
Speaker 1: guy he's been looking for, and he remembers he has
Speaker 1: a flashback to where he just was right before this,
Speaker 1: which was in the jungles at Vietnam, and he's carrying
Speaker 1: like heads and he's a He's called Killer Kane because
Speaker 1: he like he uses like a piano wire. So he's
Speaker 1: a pure like phoenix program guy. And in the book
Speaker 1: it explains or it shows that he did that thing
Speaker 1: in the jungle. He went back, they they X filled
Speaker 1: him out of the jungle. They immediately told him you're
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, here's your ID, here's your mission. And he
Speaker 1: was programmed right into it, put on the uniform, went
Speaker 1: and then immediately went and did this thing where he's
Speaker 1: now a doctor. It's total dissociation. But again it's just
Speaker 1: like it's just like this, just like this film with Parallax,
Speaker 1: where he he just kind of walks into it. Ninth
Speaker 1: Gate also kind of does that. I mean, uh, you
Speaker 1: know Johnny deppis, Yeah, he's playing like a noir detective
Speaker 1: who's like on a mission to find this book and whatever,
Speaker 1: but ends up being the guy who fulfills the very
Speaker 1: thing in the book at the at the end of it.
Speaker 2: Do you remember too that this is a totally ridiculous movie,
Speaker 2: but in a Universal Soldier where Dolph, Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: he trips out and flashes back to being the guy
Speaker 2: who like collects the ears. Yeah, yeah, but he's now
Speaker 2: he's like a reprogrammed super soldier. Yeah, he's the Universal forever.
Speaker 1: But in that right it is, Yeah, it's a Universal Soldier.
Speaker 1: And his character in that is based on the guy
Speaker 1: what's the name of that that colonel that Colonel Kurtz
Speaker 1: is partly based on from Apoculars down the Ears for Beers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he said ears for Beers. He collected ears on a
Speaker 1: necklace and that that that documentary about that guy is
Speaker 1: funny because he looks not funny, but he looks exactly
Speaker 1: like Marlon Brando in the movie.
Speaker 2: I always thought that, like in the Brando portrayal, like
Speaker 2: they give him this very Kroleian sort of image. And
Speaker 2: look like yeah, and one in a couple of scenes
Speaker 2: he actually it actually looks like he's Crowley over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that famous picture of Croley like in the
Speaker 1: black pajamas, basically like doing you know, with this nasty,
Speaker 1: big old bald head. Also, what's his name? The Stalin
Speaker 1: Scar's guard character in Dune is is clearly stolen from
Speaker 1: you know, purposely stolen from Kurtz. There's a scene, there's
Speaker 1: a scene in what's his name? What's the name of
Speaker 1: the black guy of the black guy, the bad guy Baron. Yes,
Speaker 1: so the Baron when they first show him and he
Speaker 1: rises out of the black goo and he's all bald,
Speaker 1: he does this thing where he like rubs his giant
Speaker 1: paul over his bald head, and it's just like it's
Speaker 1: just like Kurtz and I think that I did an
Speaker 1: Apocalypse Now analysis and then Heart of Darkness, and the
Speaker 1: Apocalypse Now film is obviously supposed to be It's a
Speaker 1: Phoenix Program film. It's it's pure Phoenix Program. I mean,
Speaker 1: even Scott Glenn's character Colby is the proto Willard in
Speaker 1: that because when he gets to the place and they
Speaker 1: see all the heads and he says Colby and he's
Speaker 1: like standing there with like a well shot a shotgun.
Speaker 2: It's meta LSD M Kaldre too because of the Martin
Speaker 2: Sheen story that he's really tripping in that scene when
Speaker 2: he loses it a legend.
Speaker 1: Well, the so Martin Sheen had a heart attack on
Speaker 1: the set. I think he actually did have a heart attack.
Speaker 1: He was too old to play the character. So Martin
Speaker 1: Sheen's Willard was a last minute fill in because Harvey
Speaker 1: Kattell had already shot some of the scenes. He was
Speaker 1: supposed to be the guy, and they thought, let's get
Speaker 1: Harvey Kattell because he was actually a marine. We'll put
Speaker 1: it put him in this thing. But he just didn't
Speaker 1: screen test well or whatever. I mean, he was already
Speaker 1: shooting the film. So then they brought in Martin Sheen.
Speaker 1: And when Martin she did that first scene of you know, hey, buddy,
Speaker 1: you go shut the door, I mean he's like, does
Speaker 1: the the tai chi karate chops the mirror and you
Speaker 1: know it smashed the samebody. He had a heart attack
Speaker 1: in that scene. The one who was on LSD was
Speaker 1: was Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper and Lance the Surfer were
Speaker 1: both so whacked out on I think like Amphetamine and
Speaker 1: LSD when they filmed the scene that Dennis Hopper's character
Speaker 1: who is pure, like, that's the Jester character from Heart
Speaker 1: of Darkness. He's the same, he's the same character as
Speaker 1: the photojournalist. You can't go out in the space, man,
Speaker 1: you can't go out in the space. And he said that,
Speaker 1: he said that when he got there, that Brando like
Speaker 1: hated him so so when he threw the book at
Speaker 1: him in the scene where he's talking about dialectic physics, man,
Speaker 1: you either you know dialectic logic. You either love somebody
Speaker 1: or you hate him, and he throws Brando throws Jesse
Speaker 1: Westons from Ritual to Romance like at his head while
Speaker 1: he's reading TS Eliott, And that was that was like real.
Speaker 1: They just they just kept they just kept rolling the foam.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but it's the same, it's the same sort
Speaker 1: of thing. I think Apocalypse Now is kind of the
Speaker 1: sort of like the apex of these types of films
Speaker 1: because it's so stylized and so surrealistic, so dreamlike, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's the you know, people watch the film and
Speaker 1: say that this guy's insane, but actually he's super sane.
Speaker 1: He's he's like, he's like hyper sane, you know. He says,
Speaker 1: I'm I was above there lying petty morality, whereas something
Speaker 1: like like you were mentioning the body body double. There's
Speaker 1: a movie called The Ousterman Weekend with John Hurt, which
Speaker 1: is in the same it's like the tail end of
Speaker 1: this nineteen eighty three, and again it deals with spies
Speaker 1: and a guy is he The first scene is like
Speaker 1: he's he's like doing the hunk of chunka with this
Speaker 1: lady and he walks out and then she's assassinated before
Speaker 1: he comes back in it, and they filmed it all.
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a compromise situation. But also that
Speaker 1: the director of these films, Alan jay I guess I
Speaker 1: thought it was Pacula. I guess it's Pakola. That's what
Speaker 1: the guy was saying. But anyway, he died under very
Speaker 1: weird circumstances, just like an Omen and a scene in
Speaker 1: Austinman Weekend. He was like driving along in some metal
Speaker 1: like piece of a building, flew off of a building
Speaker 1: and like impaled him in his car like a yeah,
Speaker 1: like in the Omen Wow. And at the funeral they
Speaker 1: were like, well, I mean you know this guy couldn't
Speaker 1: have filmed it better, I guess, you know. But but life,
Speaker 1: you know, life and art sort of finding their synthesis
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of this, but so so in
Speaker 1: the end with parallax view. I mean, I just think
Speaker 1: this movie is so crazy. You know, it's it's a
Speaker 1: big film. It's one of these big seventies films, and
Speaker 1: it seems like one that would be, you know, right
Speaker 1: for a remake. But I don't, I don't know if
Speaker 1: they could do that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, Yeah, we just watched a couple
Speaker 2: other seven these films that are pretty wild that they
Speaker 2: couldn't really be remade, and one of them, like we
Speaker 2: did Dressed to Kill. We got on a Brian to
Speaker 2: Palmer kick. We've been watching all his because he seems
Speaker 2: a pretty good more consistently than I expected to use
Speaker 2: this whole this whole theme of you know, dissociation, trauma
Speaker 2: based mind control. It's all over Brian to Paula films,
Speaker 2: which I should have known, given the fact that he
Speaker 2: did Black Dahlia. But uh, we watched Dress to Kill,
Speaker 2: where Michael Kaine is a you know, psycho, uh t
Speaker 2: R a n Z killer uh, spoiler alert, you don't
Speaker 2: know that until the end, but now you do, and
Speaker 2: that that that also has all the same voyeuristic, you know,
Speaker 2: weird obsession stuff that's in all the Brian to Palm movies.
Speaker 2: But another one that's overlooked in the same vein as
Speaker 2: raising Kine where I knew you were going to say
Speaker 2: that Michael H. John Lifke John, you know, a multiple
Speaker 2: who has female alters apparently if by the end of
Speaker 2: the film at least, and that allows him to escape.
Speaker 2: And his dad has said to be a mad scientist
Speaker 2: who's experimenting with traumatizing and creating and programming the altars.
Speaker 2: So so we know that obviously to Palma has some
Speaker 2: fascination and knowledge of this, and you know to what
Speaker 2: degree he's he's uh, you know, consulted with agencies or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's obviously there. But you couldn't
Speaker 2: make dress to kill again because Michael Caine is I mean,
Speaker 2: we're in the era now where we're supposed to accept
Speaker 2: all of this as normal and holy. And of course
Speaker 2: you know, Michael, I got, I got, I've got what's
Speaker 2: he got? He's got a like a barber's knife, right,
Speaker 2: He's like, I gotta cut it off. I got Blake,
Speaker 2: I got Blake. Will what's he say?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: In the movie where they call him peenie Waggy, Peenie Waggles,
Speaker 2: I'm trying. I was gonna say that, Michael Caine, Boys
Speaker 2: Wayne Wayne, mister Jingles. Yeah, a wallie wagger, a weddy wagon,
Speaker 2: waeney waggon, weenie wagger, that's what he says, we wager.
Speaker 1: Have you seen Have you seen the movie Doctor Giggles.
Speaker 2: A long time ago when it came out, Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: seen it.
Speaker 1: Remind it sort of reminds me of that that that
Speaker 1: and that in and dark Man both sort of that's
Speaker 1: the same character.
Speaker 2: Brian DePalma also does this thing where there's this like
Speaker 2: the there's a flash of light mm hmm all the time.
Speaker 2: So when Michael Caine is supposed to be terrorizing the
Speaker 2: prostitute and dressed to kill, she sees the flash of
Speaker 2: light in the glint of the knife. In fem Fetale
Speaker 2: with Rebecca Ramine Stamos, she's also a double altar Brian
Speaker 2: de Palmer assassin Thie Woman. There's a flash of light
Speaker 2: at the final sequence in the on the Corner where
Speaker 2: all the stuff happens. Anyway, he does this in a
Speaker 2: lot of his films, So I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: like signaling the the you know, altering stepping into another
Speaker 2: persona at.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that happened in a Return to Oz. Remember,
Speaker 1: I mean she's lying on that she's getting seen by
Speaker 1: the doctor, and there's the lightning storm outside. There's a
Speaker 1: flash of light, and then she runs away and ends
Speaker 1: up in the river. But but then when we see
Speaker 1: the scene where they're the doctors are looking at her,
Speaker 1: like all of the instruments look like the people the
Speaker 1: characters that she gets. So the TikTok character is the
Speaker 1: electroshock machine, and the same thing happens in the same
Speaker 1: that same sort of glint thing happens, which in Red Dragon.
Speaker 1: You've seen Red Dragon, Red Dragon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like everything turns transfigured basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he and he he there's a great
Speaker 1: scene in Red Dragon where he kidnaps the journalist Philip
Speaker 1: Seymour Hoffman, right, and he like straps him down in
Speaker 1: the in the wheelchair and he says, you are part
Speaker 1: of a great becoming and he's got these tattoos on
Speaker 1: his back when Phillip Seamore. I was like, oh no, no,
Speaker 1: oh no, you know, he's just and Ray finds like
Speaker 1: turns around and he's like he's got the.
Speaker 2: Eating. Later on he says another something like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm becoming a deity. It's a poppy type of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He when he kidnaps Edward Norton's family.
Speaker 1: At the end, he's holding his weapon is a mirror show,
Speaker 1: which is like a triple meta thing here, he's got
Speaker 1: a he kills with a mirror shard and he's holding
Speaker 1: the mirror mirror shard to his face and he says
Speaker 1: he's changing, He's part of a great becoming. So the
Speaker 1: mirror shard, it's the same in Manhunter. I suppose the
Speaker 1: mirror shard is the broken mirror. Is this broken mind,
Speaker 1: the broken mind? Yeah, and he's going to transform him
Speaker 1: as part of this red dragon Apathios this which is
Speaker 1: like a gnostic you know, I guess the gnostic Apathios
Speaker 1: is where he is now the beast. But he does
Speaker 1: that through And also he's also in the scene with
Speaker 1: phil seymour Hoffen. He's also showing films, so he's.
Speaker 2: Strapped down a film company.
Speaker 1: Remember that's right. Yeah, so so this is off. I
Speaker 1: guess this is often the case with these characters. You
Speaker 1: know that the who else worked in a film company?
Speaker 1: Not Dennis Raider. It was one of the other guys
Speaker 1: in Programmed to Kill worked at a film company.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the film is the mirror is the is the
Speaker 1: film of your own mind? You're the star of your
Speaker 1: own film? Yes, which kind of is like is like
Speaker 1: the almost every work that I've covered, almost every literary
Speaker 1: work has the house has this structure of the house
Speaker 1: in it. And the best example is like weather in
Speaker 1: Weathering Heights, the book Wathering Heights, which where he finds
Speaker 1: is in the movie version when Catherine, the the ghost appears.
Speaker 1: Remember she's this phantasm haunting him that he wants he
Speaker 1: calls her up. He calls her up out of the
Speaker 1: grave to haunt him his psychic mind, and she comes
Speaker 1: to the window.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So they're always either looking through the window outside or
Speaker 1: from outside in and the house, and the windows in
Speaker 1: the house always function as some sort of looking glass,
Speaker 1: some sort of psychic you know. Yeah, Clims, I had.
Speaker 2: An undergrad class on film and literature and we did
Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights, and I remember This was like ten years ago,
Speaker 2: but I remember thinking it's something like, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: is Heathcliffe like an altar in her mind? Like doesn't
Speaker 2: it's like a dissociation type of thing or a demon
Speaker 2: or what what are we supposed to think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think Heathcliff has a kind of physical
Speaker 1: altar because, for one, he's an orphan, he's a he's
Speaker 1: a a street urchin, and he's adopted into this family.
Speaker 1: And the first time that we meet him, we go
Speaker 1: into the house and he's like a monster ruling over
Speaker 1: the house. But he also wanders on the moors like
Speaker 1: he's a werewolf or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a phantom or something else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he and and what happens is he's a
Speaker 1: child and he's he is ill treated by his family,
Speaker 1: especially his older brother, And then he disappears for like
Speaker 1: most of the novel, and then he returns, not much
Speaker 1: of the novel, but but he returns as a different character.
Speaker 1: He's now a lord and rich, just like Rochester and
Speaker 1: Jane Eyre. But when he comes back, his whole purpose
Speaker 1: is like revenge against the family that gave him that.
Speaker 1: And he's always wandering looking for Catherine, even though he
Speaker 1: drove her. He drove her into this thing. There's a
Speaker 1: great scene in the book and it's in the Ray
Speaker 1: Fines version where he's standing there with Juliette Binoche and
Speaker 1: then you know she's Catherine. They're falling in love, and
Speaker 1: he he like blind. He covers their eyes and he says,
Speaker 1: open your eyes. When you open your eyes, if the
Speaker 1: sky is bright, so shall your life be. But if
Speaker 1: you see storms, it'll be it'll be dark. She opens
Speaker 1: her eyes and she says, oh, it's a wonderful day.
Speaker 1: And then you hear this poor you know, and and
Speaker 1: she turns around and it's stormy, and she says, oh no,
Speaker 1: oh no. And he he's got like a smirk on
Speaker 1: his face. He's like, yeah, that's gonna be stormy. But yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a kind of a he's almost like some sort
Speaker 1: of gnostic arkhon in the movie because he doesn't seem real.
Speaker 1: And also we the reader are looking at him through
Speaker 1: the eyes of the visitor to the house in the
Speaker 1: first place, so there's a distance between us, and and
Speaker 1: they're on the moors, so it's not the locust. Isn't
Speaker 1: the typical London setting, you know, with people all around
Speaker 1: it's like it's already isolated. It's almost like it's outside
Speaker 1: of time. So that that happens quite, you know, quite
Speaker 1: frequently in in in literature. I mean, it happens in
Speaker 1: King Lear, it happens in in in McBeth, hed sort
Speaker 1: of does the same thing. He has a sort of
Speaker 1: a psychic break. Of course, it's his wife who is
Speaker 1: in the coven, is my sort of what I think
Speaker 1: about that, who's in the coven who's driving him towards
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he literally goes to a witch's
Speaker 1: sabbath and drinks a brew.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the and the odd thing about that is that
Speaker 1: all of the Witch movies and all of the verbiage
Speaker 1: that they use, and all the books in films since them,
Speaker 1: have come from that. They come from that. And one
Speaker 1: of the reasons people scholars say that the play is
Speaker 1: cursed is that he used a real spell in the
Speaker 1: in the play, so it's a it's an inverted spell
Speaker 1: in terms of its verse. So when they're putting all
Speaker 1: their things in the cultar and it seems to be real,
Speaker 1: which would make sense because he wrote it for King James,
Speaker 1: and King James wrote Demonology in fifteen forty seven. So
Speaker 1: but anyway, but this, this movie doesn't really have that.
Speaker 1: It's it's totally almost straightforward with that, except for you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's the the opposite of that, instead
Speaker 1: of having the cinematic bright flashes and the typical things
Speaker 1: that you would see. It's almost so straightforward. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just have a hard time, like getting over what
Speaker 1: over Warren Bati's character in this. I mean, he's like
Speaker 1: he played Jay Sebring in Shampoo. He's mixed in with
Speaker 1: Polanski and Jack Nichols. Nothing his life, not in the film,
Speaker 1: but he later is in political films. He's in Bulworth
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff or whatever.
Speaker 2: But and he marries Madonna for a while.
Speaker 1: So weird. That weird, so odd. But anyway, you guys,
Speaker 1: that is that is the parallax view in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to say about.
Speaker 2: That, No, it'd just be cool. We should probably, you
Speaker 2: know that we should do a couple more of these
Speaker 2: sixties seventies. They are a political conspiracy thrillers like this.
Speaker 2: There's you know, the classic conversation with Gene Hackman is
Speaker 2: a great one to analyze. We could do something like
Speaker 2: Day of the Jackal, we could do something like there's
Speaker 2: a ton of these. I found several Michael Kaine, Majo Kaine,
Speaker 2: Fan Chavkin from the sixties and seventies that are also
Speaker 2: conspiracy intelligence thrillers. I mean, people are probably familiar with
Speaker 2: Billion Dollar Brain at Chris File, where he's Harry uh
Speaker 2: what's his face, the sort of the anti James Bond character,
Speaker 2: But he's also in a bunch of these others, like
Speaker 2: The Whole Croft Covenant, and he was doing quite a
Speaker 2: few of these British spy thrillers during the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 2: so those could be fun too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in a lot a lot of movies. And
Speaker 1: actually I was the other The other guy obviously is
Speaker 1: Donald Sutherland. I mean Donald Donald Sutherland is I just
Speaker 1: I just caught a replay of the movie Outbreak the
Speaker 1: other day, and I mean, even post twenty twenty rewatching Outbreak,
Speaker 1: It's it's just crazy, it's the same. It's just draumatized
Speaker 1: version of real life, you know.
Speaker 2: And you know we watched the Outbreak during the coup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Donald Sutherland is in like all
Speaker 1: of these movies. And I was on T and T
Speaker 1: with Hasher covering Donald Sutherland in a film I can't
Speaker 1: remember which one, but then he died, you know, he
Speaker 1: passed away just right after that. Actually, and also I
Speaker 1: just did Chinatown. Chinatown was written by what's the guy's name,
Speaker 1: John Uh, I can't remember the guy who wrote Chinatown,
Speaker 1: but he passed away the next day, and he did
Speaker 1: the rewrites for this movie. For a parallax for a
Speaker 1: parallax view the conversation, Yeah, the conversation is great when
Speaker 1: I covered that a while back, because it's, uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's NSA, it's NSA before NSA, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: it's so amazing. It's also obviously the prequel to Enemy
Speaker 1: of the State with with Gene Hackman. Gene Hackman is
Speaker 1: in another you know you mentioned, you know, straight up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and actually the French connection, the basis of the
Speaker 1: French Connection is the basis of what happens in Six
Speaker 1: Days of the Condor. They switched the theme so instead
Speaker 1: of oil fields, it's uh, you know, opium traffic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the uh, the the Tom Clancy what is it called
Speaker 1: without is it without remorse? Is also drug based and
Speaker 1: then they changed it for the Amazon, which you know,
Speaker 1: which kind of ruined it.
Speaker 2: There's also, you know some of these other there's coma
Speaker 2: the I think that's a Michael Crichton where they're you know,
Speaker 2: basically organ trafficking, but also overlaps the mind control Odessa file.
Speaker 2: I wrote down several possibilities here. Day of the Jackal
Speaker 2: fresh connection. I've never seen executive action. You might have
Speaker 2: covered that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, I haven't covered it, but yeah, I was just
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about it during this because it's
Speaker 1: it totally fits in line with this. Blowout is another one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I goofy face. Yeah, Andromeda Strain is really boring.
Speaker 2: I've tried to watch it. We tried watching it in
Speaker 2: the cove. I'd seen it before, and I tried to
Speaker 2: watching it again and put me to sleep. Oh the Fury.
Speaker 2: We did The Fury with the guys over at Slab Cinema,
Speaker 2: which was fun in that Brian to Palma two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. And and The Day of the
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned The Day of the Jackal. The
Speaker 1: book by Forsyth is amazing, and The Day of the
Speaker 1: Jackal is a great film, you know that. I just
Speaker 1: before I came on here, I saw an ad for there.
Speaker 1: They remade it with Eddie Redmain. Eddie Redmain was in
Speaker 1: The Good Shepherd, right, and he's it's a remake of
Speaker 1: Day of the Jackal, which would would also fit. And
Speaker 1: I mentioned David Jackal when we were on DPH. I
Speaker 1: think I mentioned it because you know, anytime you talk
Speaker 1: about assassinations and and and all this stuff, Day of
Speaker 1: the Jackal obviously plays into it. And Day the Jackal
Speaker 1: is great because it's like this difference between sixties conspiracy
Speaker 1: films and seventies. You know, you have the early Manchurian candidate,
Speaker 1: and you have Day of the Jackal, and then you
Speaker 1: and oa a sid World War two related events. A
Speaker 1: lot of Michael Kaine movies are World War two related,
Speaker 1: The Eagle is landed and all these things, and then
Speaker 1: seventies gets into more what we have with this, which
Speaker 1: is gritty sort of a it's like they took cinema
Speaker 1: verite in European film in the sixties the end of
Speaker 1: the sixties, and then they finally caught, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of got a handle on it, and then made that
Speaker 1: into the seventies and so they have this weird thing
Speaker 1: where they're making Golden Age Hollywood. Films like Chinatown and
Speaker 1: Godfather are clearly throwbacks the Golden Age Hollywood in terms
Speaker 1: of their look, but the in terms of their form.
Speaker 1: But the content is wholly of the time and relevant
Speaker 1: and revelatory for right now. And I covered I've got
Speaker 1: a book here called Hunting the Jackal, which is about
Speaker 1: the actual Jackal. It's a great it's a great book.
Speaker 1: And there's a series on the Jackal with what's the
Speaker 1: name the French the friend of the I can't I
Speaker 1: can't remember his name, the French actor. That's that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: But the the way that those change in terms of
Speaker 1: the de gall the de gall event is is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: That's a great film. I mean it's that's that's uh,
Speaker 1: it's almost a complete opposite of the parallax view. So
Speaker 1: so yeah, it would be good to cover some of those.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there, they keep they keep coming up
Speaker 1: and they're so relevant or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have I wouldn't mind doing like a
Speaker 2: DiPalma breakdown, you know, yeah, body double raising, kine, dressed
Speaker 2: to kill because it's all the same and kill for
Speaker 2: themes there. Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. All right, guys. Hey, anybody got any
Speaker 1: super chats. Let me check the super chats real quick.
Speaker 1: Let's see here, and thanks everybody. Thanks thanks to Jay
Speaker 1: for coming on tonight and discussing this. Let's see we
Speaker 1: got a Shouts out to real John Connor. Let me show,
Speaker 1: let me get here. Shouts out to the real John
Speaker 1: Connor who sent ten bucks in and let's see what
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Speaker 1: you get one point five mcchickens with ten bucks. Thank you,
Speaker 1: real John Connor. I appreciate that, yo. Shouts out to Kristin, slowboy,
Speaker 1: whiteboard out there. Crystaline sends five bucks in no comment,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Christin, really appreciate you there. Let's see.
Speaker 1: Let me look at the actual super chests there. Don't
Speaker 1: forget you guys. You can grab a membership. I've been
Speaker 1: kind of off here for two weeks, busy with doing
Speaker 1: stuff in my life, but I'll be back doing members streams.
Speaker 1: I'll be coming back with I'm gonna do an analysis
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Speaker 1: I've covered most of his work now, so we'll have
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Speaker 1: fucking m LA get off for it, love you and Jay,
Speaker 1: but Bonnicks out, Okay, thank you, mad for that fifty bucks,
Speaker 1: Big Tom, thanks man, really appreciate that. Hey shouts out
Speaker 1: to Jason right there. Thanks Jason, homeboy, says Jay, say
Speaker 1: the word abyss please. That's two bucks, Jay, say the
Speaker 1: word abysses. That's this. That's the rich.
Speaker 2: I gotta work with my Michael Kaine to get it better.
Speaker 2: That nashta beish they talking about. Yeah, that's the Michael
Speaker 2: Caine when he's playing there you go there, you got
Speaker 2: James like a butler and that somebody cool gosha bla yahish.
Speaker 1: That's their uh that's their drinking game. Because I say
Speaker 1: the word abyss. I guess every every stream talking about
Speaker 1: I don't know, Paradise lost or something shouts out to
Speaker 1: Jason right there, shouts out to Peter A for ninety
Speaker 1: nine says, you guys have to do these streams more often. Thanks, Peter,
Speaker 1: really appreciate you. Thanks for that ten bucks, Hey orthow
Speaker 1: Boomer Grandma says no, note, yeah, since ten bucks, great stream.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, Hey, thanks, really appreciate you. OBG. Circle G
Speaker 1: sends ten bucks and says, maybe I missed it, But
Speaker 1: how about Warren Batty's hair? Jay, is that what you
Speaker 1: were going for? I guess Warren batties w Warren Badi's hair.
Speaker 2: Eight months ago when I was growing up.
Speaker 1: Maybe what Warren Batty's hair in this is a It
Speaker 1: looks like a wig. It's just a it's a mop pop.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh oh oh, we lost we lost him. He's coming
Speaker 1: back in. We should we should still be good. I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna come back in if we lost to day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Warren Batty's hair looks like a wig in this movie.
Speaker 1: It also looks like Jim was shout out to Circle
Speaker 1: G for that ten bucks, right there. It looks like
Speaker 1: Jim Morrison's hair. It's clearly probably supposed to be Jim
Speaker 1: Morrison's hair. Of course, he died three years before this,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. And let's see, Pim dropped five bucks says,
Speaker 1: Reindeer game is a Christmas Rainer game? Rainer game? What's that?
Speaker 1: Is that supposed to be a reindeer game? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Pim drops five bucks and says, is a Christmas movie,
Speaker 1: The Rider Game. Thank you, Pim, really appreciate that. Now,
Speaker 1: we were saying that Warren Beatty's mop in this looks
Speaker 1: like a wig, probably that he designed himself in the
Speaker 1: movie Shampoo, where he played Charlie Manson and Jay Sebring.
Speaker 1: But it also clearly looks like he's trying to imitate
Speaker 1: I guess Jim Morrison's hair from three years before this maybe.
Speaker 1: But Warren Baty's got something weird going like every time
Speaker 1: you look at me, he's like he's got like duck
Speaker 1: lips going on in this, And sometimes he looks like
Speaker 1: Warren Baty. Other times he's dressed like a he's dressed
Speaker 1: like Jacob's Ladder like amati.
Speaker 2: Hey, dude, thanks for having us a great chat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, man, really appreciate Hey. One more, We got
Speaker 1: fifty bucks from MAV. Have you done Spartan yet? That's
Speaker 1: Val Kilmer. Thanks, MAV. Really appreciate it. I haven't done that.
Speaker 2: Terrence, not Terrence Malick or what's his name? The that's
Speaker 2: a really good uh, it's a really good film, Val Kilmer, right,
Speaker 2: but he's he's seeking the president's daughters been kidnapped and
Speaker 2: then there's like this a lot of stage craft going
Speaker 2: on in that, but it was written by what's his face?
Speaker 2: I just went blank.
Speaker 1: The guy who did Glengarry Glenn Ross. I think, uh,
Speaker 1: the play right, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's uh supposedly became a libertarian conservative a
Speaker 2: few years back and I got black ball from Hollywood
Speaker 2: because he was listening to Glenn Beck.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just went like on his name the
Speaker 1: thank you, mad. I really appreciate that. Fifty bucks. Hey,
Speaker 1: thanks everybody. Thanks, Jay, really appreciate you and we hope
Speaker 1: to speak to you soon. Man, appreciate you. Good night, y'all, peace, peace, y'all. Thanks,
Speaker 1: see y'all on the see you next time. Hey, listen.
Speaker 1: Was it worth it? Yeah, it's worth it if you're
Speaker 1: strong enough that's right. Hey, everybody, If you want to
Speaker 1: support me, you can do that through anytime, through super chats,
Speaker 1: and I will be back soon with those streams that
Speaker 1: I just mentioned. Love y'all, Appreciate y'all. That's all I got,
Speaker 1: and peace,