Speaker 1: Yo, what's up everybody. We got a big night tonight.
We're covering the Parallax via the nineteen seventy four film
and we got a special guest to help me cover
this tonight. Everybody knows Jay What's up? Here's Jay Dyer
from Jay's Analysis. What's going on? Jay?
Speaker 2: What's up?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Glad to be back with you. This is a conspiracy
classic once again, just like Network that I never did
really break down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you brought it up on the Actually when
we did Network last time, you brought this one up.
And also the term future shot came up, which is
interesting because Warren Batty says that in the film, and
this one comes, you know, people, I'm sure people have
seen this. That they haven't seen it, then we've done
their homework for them. But this one comes obviously in
the kind of there's a bunch of seventies conspiracy films
and there are a few of them are directed by
this same director, and the cinematographer also worked on a
few of them, and so Network All the President's Men Telephone,
I covered the conversation cinematographer did the Godfather Godfather Part
two Apocalypse now is in there. There's all these films,
So where do you want to start with this one?
Because it's it's of course extremely relevant right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the most obvious thing is that there's
a lot of nods that I didn't recognize until I
watched it this time. There's a lot of nods to
the JFK stuff. And I mean we made a couple
of notes on this because Jimmy and I watched this
maybe two or three years ago, so I dug out
my notes and we just rewatched it and noticed, you know,
quite a bit that I didn't notice. But I think
now that when when he gets to you know, the
South and he's dealing with the with the good old boys,
a lot of this I think is references to elements
of you know, people thinking that elite oil people were
involved in the JFK assassination, Texas, Big Texas, Uh, Dixie
mafia people might have been involved in that. So there
were some nods to things that I didn't catch the
first time around, but really relevant, I guess now after
you know, two weeks ago with Trump. So yeah, I
would just kick it off by saying, yeah, it's in
this vein of seventies conspiracy movies, and I just went
through a couple of other seventies conspiracy movies too that
have been kind of forgotten. Demon Seed is interesting. It's
not relevant to what we're talking about, but Demon Seed
is a Dean Koontz Crowley based film or story, and
that one deals with like the new birth of a
new aon through the birth of Antichrist, who's a kind
of android figure. But this is more so again like
MK Ultra, I couldn't think of that. There's a few
other seventies stuff that's worth mentioning to you. In the
early eighties, I don't know if you've ever seen Looker.
Looker's a good yeah, MK Ultra. It's a little later,
early eighties, but there were a few of these MK
culture based films at this time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This one also deals with the Journalist, right, the
consummate seventies journalist, which I rewatching, especially rewatching a couple
of times. I have questions about watching the movie because
the one thing that they always do, I mean, all
the President's Men is probably the best example of that. Or,
of course Three Days of the Condor. I covered six
Days of the Condor here, and the Three Days of
the Condor film the book and the film, and of
course the end of that one is interesting because Robert Redford,
it's one of the only movies that was allowed access
into the Big nine place in New York and it
ends with that, and of course he's walking out saying,
you know, I'm gonna expose everybody. I'm gonna take this
to the New York Times, and they say, you know,
how are you know they're going to print it all
the Presidents men. Of course is based in DC, and
you know is there are many scenes in the bullpen.
But what's interesting about this is that you can watch
this movie. It's kind of a straight movie and you
you you realize that you're watching Warren Batty and it's
very seventies and he's this journalist on the on the
hunt for what happened at the scene at the beginning
of the film. But then I noticed that every time
he goes to talk to Hume Cronin, who's his boss,
in the bullpen, like there's no one there, it's just him.
And I'm starting to thinking like, is this some sort
of form of handler that he has, This all some
sort of you know, is this all synthetic? Is it
just a show? And that kind of plays it, and
I don't you know, I think you can watch the
movie a few different ways, but there's so many elements
in this movie that that really tie into the I mean,
like the scene. This is nineteen seventy four, so it's
after Clockwork Orange, but there's a very Clockwork Orange.
Speaker 2: MK ultra yea method basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even that's different than than Clockwork Orange because
when you watch Clockwork Orange and you're watching the scene
where he's going through the Loutovico method, you know, we
we the audience, are watching what he's watching and then
we're watching him watching it. But this we see him
from far away and we are kind of getting it's
like we're supposed to be going through the Ludovico method
because it's they're just showing the screen. It's very it's
really bizarre. So if anybody doesn't know what the movie's about,
what happens is basically just in a nutshell is that
we have it. We're in Seattle. The movie starts, we
see the space needle, We go up the space needle.
Warren Beatty is there and there's a I guess a
presidential candidate named Charles Carroll of all things. Charles Carroll's
up there and there's waiters there in the restaurant at
the Space Needle, and almost right away he gets unalived.
And then we find out we cut three years later
and we have this scene where Warren Batty like forces
his way into these people's house. He ends up at
a police station. Then he gets confronted by one of
the reporters who was there and says basically that everybody
that was at the event has been smoked. Everybody's going
she's in fear for a life. Warren Baby is kind
of playing the normy role here. He doesn't you know.
He's like, ah, it's nothing, and then it turns out
that she is like the next day. So then this
sets him on a path of trying to figure out
what happens. He goes through meeting various people. Then he
tries to infiltrate his way into a corporation. He finds
a leaflet inside of a deputy's desk or a sheriff's
desk that says the Parallax Corporation. He tries to infiltrate
his way into this. He goes through the Ludovico method.
He ends up as a guy that he thinks he's
going to expose how the corporations or there's some sort
of corporate way of playing into an assassination squad or
whatever it is. And then fast forward to the end
of the movie and we have a gigant like a
gigantic civic center where there's another candidate, and then Warren
finds himself up in the rafters and the the great
twist in the movie spoiler, the great twist in the
movie is that he's up in the rafters, he looks down,
he sees a rifle. The guy gets smoked. Warren baby
tries to run out, and then he realized, you know,
and he's gone. And then we realized that he's been
a kind of unwinning Patsy and he's the guy blamed
for it. And probably the the best part of the
movie is the fact that it's bookended by the the
the board, the government board who's investigating it. The movie
begins after the first scene. It begins with we're closing
in on this kind of Council of six, just like
the Watergate.
Speaker 2: Like a Warren Commission.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Warren Commission, And they are and they are
saying that this is a there's no questions. There is
a statement here. We're making a statement. We've we've found
the guy. He was a lone nut, and that's it.
The end of the movie is the same guys and
they've said the same thing, but now it's Warren Batty
and they pull away, and so we're we're giving a
kind of glance into the system and then we're taken
back out of it. So yeah, go ahead, No, you're
go ahead. Well, I was gonna say that the movie
is is so crazy because the one thing about it,
and not to get too into the way that the
movie is shot, but one thing about the seventies movies
that's different from the from for instance, the seventies. I mean,
you've talked about this so much. The seventies had like
this whole lineage of conspiracy movies. The eighties it's kind
of dormant. And then the nineties again we get a
bunch of conspiracy movies, you know, conspiracy theory, we get
we get the Will Smith movie. Then we go into
the late nineties with you know, ending with big sort
of glimpses into Illuminate, Confirm. But the difference in these
movies is that there's a kind of tonal difference. So
the seventies movies deal with kind of obvious post Vietnam,
post Watergate sort of paranoia, and the nineties, you know,
is very pre nine, a post Cold War. But the
difference in the way that the movies look is that
the nineties movies are usually cut. They're like jump cuts.
It's you know, technology is coming and and we we're
always moving fast with the characters. But the seventies movies
are dominated by the framing and the scenes. So like
the very first scene of this movie, it opens and
we see this gigantic totem ball and we're looking like
we're looking up at it, and then the total we
kind of the camera moves, and then we see the
space needle, and then we see these characters like rising
into the sky. And every shot in this movie is
dominated by like the like encroaching. There's nature, there's encroaching buildings,
there's like big steel walls. There's the scene of the dam,
and I guess what that's trying to show us is
that we're getting this glimpse into this thing and the
people are very small and the system is huge. So
like if the scene if we're looking at the scene here,
it's like the person is down here and all of
this stuff is building or dam or or whatever we have,
and so it's it reminds me of those like Japanese
paintings of like the guys that are very small in
the waves or nature are very big, but instead of nature.
Speaker 2: And that's parallax too, right. I mean the name of
the film itself, Parallax has to do with the way
that things appear different depending upon your vantage point of
your perspective. And I think there's multiple things going on
because the corporation is called, you know, the Mega Corp.
Is kind of like a big Holdings corp Black rock
type of thing. It's called the Parallax Corporation or entity.
And they also change and control your perspective. So I
think there's a play on this idea of things being
controlled based on perspective. And if Parallax can control your perspective,
they can control your interpretation of reality. I think there's
some quote from Kissing or something to that effect where
it says we don't have to control reality, we just
have to control the perception of reality. So I think
that's point of this corporation. This excuse me, this mega
mega entity, and it has this fingers like an octopus
octazon on fingers. But you know what I'm saying, like,
if they did, they would have eight fingers and they
would be in everything. They have holdings that deal with
even human engineering. So human engineering is the division that
the film is concerned with, because, as you pointed out,
Warren Beatty is kind of stumbling down this rabbit hole
of accidentally discovering what all's really going on, and it
turns out that it's, as you mentioned, a kind of
a private uh Mirk force that's being recruited in a
it's like a privatized Chaultra. So they've got some technique
by which they break down individuals that they've profiled that
have antisocial, sociopathic, psychopathic tendencies, and that makes them a
good fit for this program. And eventually, because of all
the you know, the problems that Warren Baty's having in
his life as a journalist, he's you know, third rate.
They say, he's you know, struggling look at for money,
he can't keep a girlfriend, he keeps you know, losing
his girlfriends. They keep saying, oh, you're perfect for this program.
You need to be in the security detail. That's what
you're made for because you don't. You're not like other people.
And they play on his vanity, right, They they butter
him up and say, did you ever consider that it's
not you this the problem, but it really is everyone else, right,
That guy butters his A corporate handler guy butters him up,
and they eventually get him into this. But I'm getting
way ahead of myself, but yeah, I think you're right
that the camera plays a trick with perspective. Like you said, well,
you have this, you know, totem pole that's close up,
and then it pans over and you see the space needle.
It's far away, but they kind of look like the
same size, and that's kind of again an example of
playing with and twing with perspective, which is what the
paralyzed corporation itself does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Keep in that scene with the guy
who's buttering him up, like he's literally putting butter in
a pan when he's when he's doing that, he goes
into his and we get this view like we're already
inside the apartment and we I'm skipping forward here, but
we're inside of his shitty apartment. I mean, it's the
worst apartment. The bed is right next to the front door,
and then there's a little there's a little kitchenette right there,
and the guy's like, you know something, whatever you're cooking's burning.
He later comes in and the guy's lying on his
bed his feet or in view right when he walks in.
And and there's the great scene which I'll come back to,
but there's a great scene where he he reaches out
to this psychologist who is the guy who that's the
guy he's in license to kill, you know, he like
runs the whatever. He goes into this uh, this obvious
like I don't know what it is, like a Jose
Delgado facility, walking again. There's a monkey in there playing pong,
and he shows him the the the list of you know,
the test for the Parallax Corporation. You you'll make a
great fit. And he's like, do you think you can
tell me how to take this test and answer, you know,
like a psychopath And the guy literally goes, We'll just
have Jim Jim over here take it. Yeah, this guy,
this guy you know, smoked his aunt and three other people,
He'll take it. And then the camera cuts over and
this guy like walks out of the back. Notice he
takes the chimp away, like the guy is gonna be
a threat to the chimp, right, The guy walks in
and the guy's like and he's like, yeah, we'll just
have this guy take it. And the guys looks like
Charles Whitman or something, you know, he's he's the most cycle.
So the guy takes the test for him and answers
off the charts like this guy's the biggest psychopath you've
ever met. And then he But the question is like,
is this part of it is this is even the
way that he goes about this part of it?
Speaker 2: Right? Because if, as you pointed out, we wonder and
this time watching it through, I think what happens is
you want a new vantage point again to play on
the title of the film, because if you know the ending,
then you want to go back and say, well, so,
how far we're they actually profiling Warren Batty as a
suitable candidate or recruit. And it's entirely possible, like you said,
to read it as if it was it was early on,
because he tells the story as you mentioned later on
that oh I was, you know, partying one time and
I was drunk and yeah, you know, I ended up
running around somehow with my clothes off, and some woman
claimed that I was a you know, tally whagger or
wagger or whatever they call it, a willy willy wagger
whatever they call it in the movie. And he says
that ruined my career. And then he says, but I'm
pretty sure somebody put something in my drink, which suggests
again that perhaps he had been uh, they had orchestrated
this to get him into this position where he couldn't
find good work and employment as a journalist anymore, and
he would be this candidate. And it is the case,
as his ex girlfriend points out at the beginning, that
he kind of is a selfish guy, like he doesn't
really care. She points that out, She's like, you don't
really care. He's like, well, you know whatever. He's kind
of just aloof and apathetic. But then when she dies,
he seems to be more concerned because then he starts
wondering if something really is going on. And I like
the idea that a lot of these seventies movies promoted.
You know, this is like coming after Watergay Woodward Bernstein stuff.
We are sold on the idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that.
Speaker 2: In the seventies or even in the sixties, right, that's
like the height of intrepid journalists who are out there,
ready to get the scoop at all costs, and the
truth comes first. They're willing to die, they'll lose it
all just to get the story, to expose the baddies
and to get the word out. And now I think
it is solidified in everyone's mind, this this idea, particularly
maybe in the sixties and seventies, of the role of
the journalist as the fourth estate. And I don't think
they could have had that role without movies propping them up.
You know, this is I mean, we're ess interiesally because
nowadays we're living at the end of the fourth estate,
and you know, legacy mainline journalism is literally dying before
our eyes. In the last several years. Their numbers are tanking.
So it's interesting to see the propaganda in the nineteen
seventies that the journalist is out there, you know, to
get the scoop at all costs. He's willing to even die,
you know, to expose somebody, assassinating some politician, And of
course that's not the truth about journalists at all. Anyway.
Just a side note, that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, also, you know, his his boss Hume Cronin,
who was this you know, old older Hollywood actor even
in this movie early seventies, he's like one hundred years old.
Has this counterpoint to the Jason Robard's character and all
the presidents men in that film. Woodward Bernstein's boss seems,
I mean, he seems to be on the surface at least,
you know, he's running he's running the post or whatever
it is, and he's you know, off, you know, and
you got to find the evidence. And it's like a
straight up journalist. He's the editor and he's pushing them
and they're off doing their their shenanigans and their journalistic
work and all this stuff. But in this movie, it's
different because it's much more local and you go in
and it's it's just one boss in there. There's one
scene at the beginning where they go in there's like
two guys in a kind of in a mirror, but
in the rest of it, there's nobody in the office.
And he takes like an unnatural ownership of his character,
like he's a handler. He you know, he's he's he's
offering him money. He has the money in the in
the envelope, he talks about his personal life. You know,
we gave you another chance. You know, you're best described
as what does he say, like a hostile misfit before
he before he goes on later to say that he
has you know, blatant andy social behavior meet, which means
I don't like to put up with people who are
trying to fuck with me or whatever he says later
on in the movie. But with the human cronin Boss
is almost like this father figure. And the weird thing
about this movie is again that I think when you
first watch it, you're so even if people are young
and they are watching it and they don't know who
Warren Batty is, if they don't know the lore of
Warren Bady or whatever, you watch the movie and you go,
this guy is. You know, he's obviously a movie star.
He's a striking guy. And part of the seventies thing
is you watch him and you feel like you're watching
Warren Baty play a role. But on a rewatch, you
watch the movie and you go, I feel like I'm
watching a guy playing Warren Baty playing a role like that.
He doesn't he doesn't have that many lines in the movie.
He does weird things. He doesn't his personal life is
very strange. He's like living in a motel and it's
almost like am I missing something? And then by the
end of the movie you kind of figure that out.
And then like you were saying, you sort of start
to think, is this guy somebody else? The whole time,
Like he looks like a normal guy in the movie,
but he also looks like a bomb at times, he
looks like a you know, he just he looks he
looks at the beginning, actually the first scene in the
movie where you see him is before. Okay, so the
movie opens, you see the the totem pole, you see
the space needle, and then you wait for this weird
like parade typical probably you know, political parade. It's like
these Indonesians are dancing. And then you see this guy
come on a fire truck like like Daniel da Lewis
and gangs in New York or something, and it's like,
I love Fourth of July. And then when you look
at it, when we're looking side on and he goes
up to be interviewed by the lady with the short
hair who's baby's friend. Later you see Warren Bady in
the background. He's behind like ten people, so he's not
even in the he's not in the forefront. He's in
the background of all these people. You see the guy
in the in the foreground with the glasses on, the
Austin Talker character. You see the lady. You're like, people
are milling around, but you're like, what's this guy milling
around in the background. And then when you rewatch the movie,
you're like, this is this is an assassination. It's clearly
about to happen with kind of sketchy characters in the background,
but Warren Batty's one of them. And then when they
go up into the space needles, what's interesting is that
it's very quick. It's it almost happens right away. We
have the waiters and we have like the switch off,
the handoff with the tray, which doesn't like make sense
in terms of continuity, because we see we see the
actual assassin's face, which is clearly him. I mean like
there's a post here and he kind of he kind
of like comes out from behind this post. You're like,
that's clearly the guy. And then they we watch the
assassination take place from the little balcony outside of the
glass so first we're inside of the thing, and I
know that I know that the Gordon Willis, the guy
who photographed the movie, said that what he liked about
what he did with these movies was like, you can
see the city scape, you can see Seattle in the background,
but we're supposed to be concentrating on the characters in
the foreground, but they're kind of shadowed, and so the
exposure is is like, Hi, we see the outside, we
don't see their their faces, and then all of a sudden,
we go to the outside and we're looking into the
space needle through the glass. And he said in an
interview they asked him like, w what did you do
this for artistic effect? And he said, well, like he
was an older Hollywood guy, He's like, well, listen, the
whole point of this, you know, is that if I'm
doing a movie and I'm gonna shoot the movie and
they say, all right, we need fifteen cuts here in
this scene, that I cut the cuts. So basically, I say,
we can get this done in three And the only
reason he did the glass was for effect, because because
it allowed for when he got shot, for him to
streak down the glass and see the bloodstain. But he
said all the intellectual interpretation comes later from other people,
which is an interesting way to think about artists doing this.
But what it shows this is that we're like looking
in through we're looking through the looking glass on this
thing that's happened on the inside, and all of a
sudden things start to change in terms of continuity. Because
when they chase the waiter, who is one of the
guys with the gun that later happens with Beatty, he runs,
you know, after the assassination, and he runs on top
of the space needle and they chase him. There's a
great scene where he's on top and then they he
falls and he trips and falls and falls off, gives
a will A Wilhelm scream. But it doesn't make sense
because we were just on the balcony. So there's a
balcony here and then the space theedles, So if he
fell off, he fall onto the balcony, but we assume
that he falls off like into space. He falls off
into the ground. But the whole point of that, I
think is that, like you said, like our our perspective
is distorted by events we don't know. We can't believe
our lying eyes, and even though there's clearly two guys
with the gun there, everybody's just gonna remember the one guy.
There's even in that scene, there's even a woman in
a polka dot dress. It's RFK r L. Later and
all of the people that are that are there start
to get start to disappear, and when they go through
the list of people disappearing, I mean, it's exactly like JFK.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a news clipping and one of the
names that's listed as sir Han. I'm not I don't
know if the reference to, but it was probably there intentionally,
just as a nod. And the same thing occurs with
the way they play with the lighting when the handler
comes to his apartment and sells him on coming to
do the security stuff. At that point is basically you
can't see his face, and so he's essentially become not
He has no identity, You can't identify him anymore, and
so that you're right to point out that he was
probably profile because they saw him as a person at
a breaking point who was really lost with no identity.
The corporation will give you an identity, will tell you
that you're, you know, the fittest hit man out there, Right,
you're gonna get a Hitman of the Month award. Yeah,
you're a special person. So and they saw him on that.
But I think the other elements, as you point out,
is that this is a recurring motif that was already
making its way into film after multiple hits including JFKRK. Okay,
we're getting this recurring theme of the random loan shooter
who is a nut, right, the loan Gunman's it's being
criticized in the film as obviously not that not the case,
But as you pointed out, we're only we only know
what the official story is of these events, and so
that's the parallox view, which is that there are there
actually corporate merk squads that are hired by these cutout entities.
And the answer is yes. And in fact, in the
nineteen eighties, the intelligence operations of this kind, these sort
of black ops things, they get more and more privatized.
There's a famous situation where Reagan privatized a lot of
the intelligence in the nineteen eighties and took it away
from the more normal sort of CIA role of who
would have been doing this in the fifties and sixties,
even under JFK. They were moving more of this stuff
to be under the cover of NGA and other entities
that weren't the classic sort of CIA, and let's you know,
bring in a Green Beret sniper out of Vietnam to
do this kind of stuff. Now it's turning into more
and more of a privatized thing, and that's really probably
the norm today is that this again it becomes prophetic
in terms of how mercenaries and assassins would probably be
recruited nowadays. So it also reminds me of, you know,
Dave McGowan's Program to Kill books because her book and
then other other books that have touched on this, which
is there's a you know, the Navy guy Thomas Narreutu
talked about the Navy recruiting psychopaths to be assassins a
couple of decades ago, and the Phoenix program obviously is
probably there's a nod probably to the Phenix program in
this film, which was the William Colby plan during the
Vietnam War to basically create psychopaths to terrorize the viet
Cong to to win that conflict through terror. And then
of course Dave McAllan theorizes that many of the some
of the main serial killers that we know of might
have been part of that program because they were trucked
off the Vietnam. They did involved themselves in doing LSD
and other things, and so it's very possible. It's interesting
that there's not a lot of the drug emphasis in this,
although he does say that one line that he thinks
they drugged him at a bar one time. But I
like that the method that they use is kind of ambiguous.
It's I mean, it's corny because you just see this
screen that flashes a bunch of like depression era images
and I'm sitting here thinking this is.
Speaker 3: Kind of a low energy, very low energy depressing mk
ultra thing where it's like it flash's mother, father, me,
home country, God, enemy, happiness, father and mother.
Speaker 2: They show you know, Soviets and Cold War stuff, they
show Castro. So I'm thinking, well, this is really just
kind of the manipulation of archetypes. So it's a very
sanitized Ludovico method, because, as you pointed out in Kubrick's
version of Ludovico method, you get like actual you know
t O R t U R E. You get you know,
drugs presumably being given to to Alex. You get his
eyes being forcibly kept open. You know, he has to
watch just horrendous things. This is a lot more tame,
a lot more boring, and we don't really know what
it is, but it's almost like, well, Warren Beatty is
the monkey right when he first walked into that to
the Parallax Corporation, and then he's watching the monkey play
the video games, which again there's this there's a symbolic
prophetic significance there that the technocratic elite are going to
make mankind be like a bunch of monkeys playing video games.
This is think of the viral video a few years
ago where the monkey was just scrolling on his Instagram feed, right,
and he couldn't stop. So that's where we are, and
Warren Beatty is the experimental test chump. Will be mind
controlled too, or I mean, he's not explicitly mind controlled
to be you know this like programmed assassin with trigger
codes like we often think of it, but it's enough
of it that he's kind of nudged into being at
the right place in the right time to be the Patsy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because the thing with the monkey is,
you know they still show videos of monkeys like playing pong,
and they say, look, it's only a few years until
you know, it's like the movie's from nineteen seventy four
and it's doing it in that And you're right that
the rockwell asque like still picture version of this with
the awful song. I mean, it's almost like he's traumatized
into the thing because the song is so bad. It's like,
you know, Mother and Daddy and it's like this seventies
sort of country Joe in the fish like country song playing.
I think I guess the point of that is that
the difference between Alex undergoing this and him is that
one we can't see Warren Baty's character undergoing it. He's
far he's far away, just like we saw the court
scene at the beginning with the bench and he just
comes in and they say, you know, please sit down.
He sits down willingly and watches this film which goes
on for too long. But it's not like it's not
like Alex in the Ludovico method, where Alex enjoys the
he's like, I'm here to see the videos, you know,
and he he's watching it and it's only it's actually
in that film. It's like you said, it's the combination
of drugs, the eyes, the straight jacket, probably electro shock
or whatever, and they're not showing. And then the fact
that they mix in all of the imagery with with
a replay of crimes that he himself has done. So
so it's like it's supposed to hit him and it's
not until they add the auditory element. With Beethoven, it's
like his programming, his programming code. But I sort of
contrasted that with there's a I read this book on
Mangola and it talks about the you know, some of
the and and he and Klaus Barbie both did this
in World War two, you know, and they get they hired. So, see,
I hired Klaus Barbie because at the end of the
war for people, for the folks at home, people did
not know that at the end of the war, when
the Allies were looking for, you know, somebody to deal
with their new enemy, who better to deal with it
than the guy who was tasked with, you know, infiltrating
or or finding you know, breaking communists, I suppose. So
one of the things that Klaus Barbie did was when
they when they wanted to find out information or whatever.
They snatched a guy. It's just like Phoenix program. When
they snatched a guy. What they did was they asked
him a bunch of questions and the guy would you know,
he would lie or whatever, and they said, okay, that's fine, Well,
for your service for being in here, and to apologize,
we have a gift for you, and they would give
him a gift and it was a box and it
was just like in seven. They would unwrap the box
and open the box and it was like his wife's
head in the box and they would say now you know,
now what do you think? And the guy would be
completely shattered, completely broken, and they'd bring in other you know,
people close to him that he knew, and they would say, now,
this is gonna happen in front of you, So think
I would be willing to just go, you know, I'll
work for you whatever you want. And the Ludovico method
like kind of sort of hints at that, not like
that Alex. He's a psychopath anyway. But this movie is
strange because it's because they are trying to find a
person to do these things, but they've already found him
because he walks into the thing. But also his daily
life already is already in line with what they want.
I mean, so so for instance, when he goes in
and visits the like bar or whatever, and he's and
he gets in the fight with the deputy and the sheriff.
He gets out of it by he doesn't stop. I mean,
he even comes in like through the wall and he's
still fighting. And then when they take him to the dam,
he fights the sheriff. When he steals the car, he
crashes to the grocery store. It's very quick. He like
crashes into the grocery store, runs out the back, gets
in a truck, and leaves. He's got an amazing way
of getting out of trouble. He can just kind of
slip through anywhere. So I guess that's part of them finding,
you know, this guy who seems to be able to
infiltrate all these places. The craziest scene, though, to just
sort of jump ahead here, the craziest scene is when
he's tasked with like following the guy and he's the assassin.
The assassin knows that he's being followed, right, and then
he goes to the grocery store parking lot. He switches cars.
He's got the suitcase, He goes to the airport, gets
on the plane, and Warren Batty apparently, I guess at
the seventies you could just walk right onto a tarmac
and just walk right on a plane and play and
pay right there. I mean, it's crazy, he just walks
onto the plane. But that's not the crazy part. The
craziest part is that when you rewatch the movie, you
realize Warren Batty follows the guy onto the plane. He
knows the guy has a bomb in his in in
his suitcase. He tries to write on the mirror, he
erases it, he writes it on the cocktail napkin, and
then he calmly sits down and then waits for the
plane to land and then just walks off the plane.
And he has no emotion about it. But the fact
is that he's followed a guy that he knew had
to bomb onto a plane and gets on the plane
anyway and then gets off again, which is insane. So
so I guess he is the perfect guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the corporations, right, they have profiled him accurately. Yeah,
and he's creating the unfortunately, the myth and the narrative
that's perfect for him to be Patsy. You know, it
makes me think of it's well, not the characters, but
it's just similar patterns to the movie Shooter with Mark
Wahlberg Marky Martin. But one thing I did want to
mention that I forgot to mention was all that scene
with the redneck sheriff and all that, and this had
to be like around the time of Dukes of Hazzard, Like,
so they just say, like, let's just put in a
whole sequence that's like Dukes of Hazard level stuff, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even even the music gets crazy. I mean the
score is Basil Polydorus and the car chase turns into
like where where wait? I know, honk, you know, like
crazy zany noises, and then they jump, you know, the
cars jumping. Gordon Willis said that that when he was
talking about the cuts in the movie and framing the movie,
he said that the only scene that he disagreed with
the director about was that particular scene. The first of all,
he said, the fight scene. His expression was, he said,
we had to Corey. You know, they had a choreograph
this fight scene and he fights the sheriff and I
was like, what are you doing? What is this? This
doesn't fit in the movie. I don't. I don't understand.
And then we had to go through this long, tedious
car chase where it didn't make sense. That's my he
said it was the least favorite scene that he's ever filmed.
But I guess the point. The point is that, again,
the things don't fit. It's like even the audience watching
the thing, We've been watching this sort of heavy handed
conspiracy movie and all of a sudden we're in some
sort of zany car chase, like we're watching a movie
like Warren Batty is in a movie of his own mind.
So it you know, it's like the things, the things
don't quite fit even when they By the way, did
you notice that the deputy, the deputy that he fights
at first, the weird guy who comes up to him
and he's like, hey boy, yeah, did you know that that? Yeah?
Did you notice that that that guy is a Wilson,
the neighbor in Home Improvement?
Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I noticed you did look familiar. And
then I noticed the guy that he's talking to when
he's riding that little train around the park. That's Auto,
who plays the the owner of the ranch in Malcolm
in the Middle.
Speaker 1: So there you go. The movie predicted a lot.
Speaker 2: Of weird figures up later and other things.
Speaker 1: Well, the train scene is weird because you know, he's
got to go talk to a guy and they're going
to go talk about a pulmonary embolism pill, a pet
pill that you know, is that the same thing Frank
Church talked about, you know, at the at the church
hearings when they talked about the heart attack gun and
the the things that get and this is before that.
I suppose, so the weapons that can mimic a heart attack,
there'd be no there'd be no evidence of it. But
it's crazy because they're sitting on toy trains, like I
guess they're hiding in plain sight, but and there there's movement.
They're they're constantly moving through the narrative of the movie,
but they're like they're on these toy trains like it's
a I don't I don't know what that is. It's
some sort of like like it's a game. I suppose,
like he's on a he's on a track that he
can't get off of until the end of the movie,
or it's some sort of game he's playing like he's
a child on on adventures it was very strange, very
strange place to to talk to this guy. And and
the the strangest scene for me that I can't really
understand is the first time we see him after three
years and Warren Batty like knocks on this door and
it's this old you know, couple inside and he's like, yeah,
you know, my parents in the backyard. I need to
get my parent and he just walks into the house
and then he turns around and again is looking through
the looking glass into the house, and then there's like
a drug raid and I can't I can't understand what
he was doing. Was he was he investigating something? What
was it said? It's almost like he shows up at
the house not knowing what he's doing there and sing.
Speaker 2: Like you said, like like he's wandering through all of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the fact that he's looking for his parent also,
it's like like he's parroting the things that he's supposed
to say. And there's a there's a weird drug raid
almost like this is the part where he's going to
be compromised into whatever the program is, because he ends
up getting bailed out by human cronin and they're going
to charge him with a bunch of stuff, but he's
going to get it, but he kind of talks his
way out of It's almost like a first test. But
how did he how did he get there? What's he doing?
I didn't I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah I didn't even catch that. That's
a good point. Yeah, he made some really good points too,
about how like his character is not like he he
doesn't at all act like a normal person. And I
think that's why they call him an unusual personality. Right
when the guy comes to talk to me, says, you know,
we're really in the business of looking for unusual personalities,
and we think you fit it. And the first time
I watched it, I didn't really pay attention to that.
I just thought was just this journalist who's like trying
to get a scoop. And then then this this next
time through, it's like, no, there's a lot more that's
off with him that you don't realize the first time through.
And then you start to notice more and more, like
how messed up he really is. And they've figured that out.
You're figuring that out, like the corporation has figured that out,
and they're just tweaking him into their nudging him into
being the perfect Patsy. That again, to bring it to
like modern day, that's a lot more likely what I
think happened in the last big event. You know, according
to the the official story of who the person is
in terms of the shooter, if that's that guy Crooks,
you know, he seems to be this kind of a
person this I mean, not identical to Warren Baty, but
a person who's nudged into this situation. And when I
talked to Sammy the Bull right after it had happened,
he said, well, if I was doing this, that's what
I would have done. I would find somebody who would
be a suitable, perfect Patsy candidate. He says, we would
have told him we'll give him the moon, right, we're
going to promise you all this stuff. You're going to
be a hero. Don't worry, we're gonna protect you. But
we have a contingency plan all along that he would
be taken out right right. And I think that's, you know,
the exact same attitude of the corporation here parallax. And
I think this also again fits with probably the way
things really occur is that people are profiled, not because
the establishment is ultimately a bunch of he who bust crimes.
I mean they're pro crimes are busted on a mid
and low level, but at this kind of a level. No,
they're profiling individuals to find out who's a suitable, useful psychopath.
It can be a tool for this sort of you know,
super international corporate entity that's knock bound by any rules
or laws. And I thought it was fascinating too that
they used these all kinds of methods. I mean they
poison you know, his editor, they will sniper other people.
I mean they have all the means at their disposal,
and they have a very adept stagecraft. And essentially the
whole final sequence is getting Warren Bady into the position
of being in the rafters at not the actual event,
which is fascinating because they didn't do it at an
actual event. They do it at the rehearsal, which makes
more sense to actually get the job done. And you know,
he's in the exactly the position that they wanted him,
so he's played the entire time and he ends up
becoming the perfect Patsy because he fit the profile of
the perfect Patsy. But that stage craft dimension, I thought
was pretty fascinating that well. The first time I watched it,
I was like, well, he's a Patsy, but I didn't
think about how how well the corporation had played him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, car crashes, playing crash is poisoning, drug overdose, heart attacks,
it's all the sort of common things. The scene with
the sheriff and the deputy reminded me also of JFK
with the the event happens and then they roll out
the Patsy. He says he's a Patsy, and then this
guy in a ten gallon hat comes out, you know,
in the famous photograph, And it was just like that.
Also all of the movies and books that I've read
with you know, with Leo's acting as as sort of
hired enforcement for this, and one of the things in
the movie is there's a continuous like series of initiations
into this, and one of those is obviously with the deputy.
You know, the deputy comes up, insults him, degrades him.
It's in a public place. There's a honeypot right there,
there's a you know, spring Mere mk betas sex kitten
that comes up right right up to him in the bar.
You know, and when you watch the movie, it's like, oh,
the two guys, the two Hillbillies or whatever in the
bar are going to be angry because the girls got
up and left. But actually they let the fight go on,
and he's even I mean again, he's like even being
thrown through walls. They destroyed the bar, until finally the
sheriff just cool, cool, calm and collected. It's like, I
wouldn't have let it go on too long if I
thought it was going to be bad. Let's go fishing.
And then he takes him to the very scene where
the last guy was killed and where the last guy
was he walks right into this and this is a
crazy see if you guys haven't seen this movie, it's
a crazy scene because he goes to this dam and
we get this giant wall, the giant you know, cement wall,
this concrete wall, and they're the rocks and there's this
this little stream. He kind of goes down to investigate,
and you hear this just huge siren. It reminded me
of that new movie The Zone of the Zone of
I forget the Zone movie about the World War two thing.
This loud almost like programming siren to to snap you
into whatever. It is and it's so loud, and all
the water coming out. It's like the waters are rushing.
The things are about to happen, just like with the train,
you know that there's gonna be a flood of events.
And they don't move. They're just standing there. And he
turns around and the guy, the sheriff is holding a
gun on him, and he quickly like well, he like
snaps him in the head with a fishing rod and
he's got to fish. It's so fasty and he whips
him with it and then he they fall. They of course,
they fall into the river. Which is my thing, Like
if you're whatever, I watch movies and and this happens
and you're being chased, I always think, just jump into
the water, just get away. This guy, the sheriff is
so fat anyway, he's you know, like swimming away from
the guy. He gets up, steals the sheriff's car, goes
to his house. He goes right to his house, goes
right into his house, walks right into his library, walks
opens the drawer and he finds the leaflets. For now
he's I guess he's been initiated into this thing. And
here's the here's the the you know Phoenix program test
list of do you've in? The list is hilarious. It's like,
do you ever feel like you have no friends? Do
you ever feel like everyone's against you? Do you do
you wish you could blow torch the whole world? Then
and then of course then he goes to the MK
culture Lab. But it's almost like a series of initiations
and and Baty is is very weird. I know Warren
Batty was Warren Batty before this was in his real life,
was in the Governed Inner Circle right before the movie
was made. He was like close friends with McGovern and
then they couldn't make the movie because there was a
writer strike, but he pushed the movie through it anyway.
I guess is it George McGovern?
Speaker 2: Oh? I thought you mentioned CIA analyst Raymond Govern.
Speaker 1: I think it's George was a big yeah, a big
Democrat donor for them. Warren Betty is also from here,
by the way, he's from He's from Richmond. Warren Beatty
and his older sister Charley McLain are from weirdly or
from here, and and like they weren't just born here,
they grew up here. And uh. And also the writer
of the book Laura, his name is Lauren Singer. Was
oss and his name is Lauren Adeleston Singer. I couldn't
find any connection with the obvious, obvious person. But but
it always plays out this way. It always plays out
that the outer events, like you were saying that the state,
you know, the stage craft of the events themselves always
seemed to mirror and mimic the making of the movie itself. Right.
So Three Days of the Condor, there's that famous picture
that was in Vanity Fair or whatever of of Richard
Helms and what's his name? Well, what's what's the actor's
name in Three Days of the Condor? Oh my god,
I can't, I can't. Sundance Film, Sundance Film Festival. What's
the guy all the presidents met Dustin Hoffman and I
can't think of the seventies actor, the big guy somebody
in the chat. What's the guy's names? Donald Donald Sutherland
was in this guy's previous movie, which is clute. But
Robert Redford, it's what I'm thinking. Robert Redford and Richard
Helms are off, they're on. Richard Helms came to visit,
came to visit the set of Three Days of the
condor that that's a paid consultant for this. So it's
it's very it's very weird. The stage crafts the sort
of stagecraft element as if, and that obviously comes to
play with the argo you know where we have Hollywood
in Hollywood, uh, working with intelligence. But I think the
weirdest part of this movie is that, like you know,
you were mentioning before that, the I think the reason
the movie is successful is because the Shenanigans aren't too
It's like the programming scene, it's it's very matter of fact.
There's no you know, mind bending psychic break. We go
to the office of the corporation. They literally have human
engineering on the kiosk to go up into the place.
The guy comes and visit him. He's walking around. They
go to grocery stores. It's a very matter of fact,
which I don't know what that what that means, other
than it says to me that sometimes the you know,
there's the there's the deep sea spiracy, but there's also
the hit just completely hidden in plain sight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he reminds the psychology of Warren Batty as
this protagonist reminds me of Nick Cage and eight Millimeter
like nick cage and eight millimeter is kind of messed up,
and he can't quit following this rabbit hole, right, Like,
even though there's every red flag possible is constantly in
his face, he can't stop, right, He must pursue this
for whatever reason for And it's sort of like why
is he doing this? Right? I mean, he's lost everything
and you know, but he continues with this. There's another
movie we just watched that also on the stagecraft point,
reminds me of this film. Have you ever seen the
Brian de Palma nineteen eighty four movie Body Double?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I was just talking about that with somebody
the other day. Yeah, it's another one of these, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Body Double. The main character is an actor
who can't find work. Well, he has work, but he
has a crippling claustrophobia. And this other prominent guy, wealthy
actor guy utilizes this weakness in him as this character
who's sort of led along this path entire time to
play a role as the eye witness to a staged murder.
I mean, there's a murder, but it's it's all stage
and it's not what you think it is. And uh,
it's a situation where this you know, high level Hollywood
person is utilizing the tricks of Hollywood to to beat
the cops. And he's even casting his traumatized friend or
not really a friend but his buddy. And then there's
this really weird voyeuristic sort of Melie Griffith. There's those
like meta levels of voyeurism where he's intended to be voyeurized,
voyeuristically looking at people through a window, and then he's
other people are watching the whole thing, and it's it's
and then it turns into him having to become enter
into the world of prawn and take on an alternate.
It's almost like he's a mind controlled individual as well,
because he's traumatized. So the main character there is is
more of a weak traumatized persons micaetrol person. Warren Batty
is not at all weak. He's sort of like the
the ultimate assassin, I guess you could say, because he
really fears nothing, Like, no point does he. I mean,
he only really fears his own end, but nothing else,
right he wants Yeah, I don't even think he cares
about the scoop anymore. Right, at a certain point, it's
just sort of like he can't resist continuing down this path,
like why why wouldn't you just walk away? At a
certain point when he realizes what he's up against.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's on a trajectory, like with the
train scene, that he doesn't show any indication of human feelings.
I mean when he's confronted by his girlfriend or his
friend or whatever, and she, you know, she says to him, oh,
all these things are happening, and then she that's a
great scene because that actress is in just like those
two scenes, and she's great because when she shows up,
we assume there's a relationship or a former relationship between them,
even if it's just that they happen to be the
same event before or they were both journalists or whatever.
But she's trying to tell him what's happening, and he
says to her, you know, she says, I'm in fear
for my life and he's like, oh, more in fear
than you were the last time. And she says, I've
never committed suicide successfully before. And then and and then
the the drug scene or the overdose scene happens, I guess,
and then he's in the you know, he goes to
visit her in the which is another strange scene because
when when we see her lying on the slab in
the morgue, we see her and we see the two
doctors talking, and then it's only after they leave the
room that Warren Betty, who's off he's off frame, comes
into frame like he's now walking into this into this
new this new life or whatever. But nowhere in the
movie does he show anything other than that he wants,
like you're saying, like he wants to continue, he needs money,
he needs an advance. And even the scene where it's
just the strangest scene where he's at home and he's
cooking and he gets a knock on the door and
the guy comes in, and this is clearly he knows
he's being hunted. He's been hunted. Everybody knows he's in
this thing now. But he lets he's like, he leaves
the door open. He's like, well, I guess you can
come in if you want to. And the guy walks
in and this is the guy who's gonna be his handler,
and he's he just turns around and then the guy's
this line. He says, so how tall are you six
six' one of the guy says at Warren band He
says six to two and then he's like, you, I
thought you were taller than that. And he's like, who
gives a fuck how tall I am, buddy? And then
he you notice in that scene when he's cooking, he
like burns his hand and he drops it and he
likes spat. He freaks out. He has a spats and
the guy like has this slight smile on his face,
this smirk, and he's like, yeah, you're just the guy.
You're just the unhinged guy that we want, you know,
telling him to put water in ice on it like
he is if he's in a grown man who doesn't
know what to do after he's burned his hand. But
he needs these these handlers throughout the movie. And he
only freaks out in the very last scene when he
sees the light from the door open and he starts
running towards the door as if he can get away.
And that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was watching that. I was wondering, like, why
does he lay there so long? Because if he had
gotten out when he first sees the doorway, he might
have made it, but he hesitates for so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he also crawls down onto the thing
where the gun was so he walks right you know,
he goes right into it, which is also kind of
indicative of the beginning of the movie when the waiter,
the guy who was hit his role at the beginning
of the movie, also runs out into the light into
the outside and also falls down onto something else. And
it's also that he continuously walks right into the places
where the other people have been assassinated, so like with
the plane scene or with the damn scene. The other
scene that we haven't mentioned is when he finally finds
Austin Tucker, the guy with the glasses at the beginning,
who is the political consultant who's who apparently has enough
money to insulate himself and he has a you know,
he sends his bodyguard to go find him. But I
was watching, Yeah, when I was watching the movie for
the first time, they get on the boat and I
was thinking, don't get on this boat, dude. You think
you're you're safe everywhere, you know, anywhere you go, the
boat is the don't even you read the things. The
boat is the last place you're going to be safe.
So he gets on the boat. They're sailing. The guy
does this weird thing where he like takes a nap
for five minutes and then he gets back up. He's
back at the back of the boat with his bodyguard,
and then the boat blows up and baby just like
jumps off the boat into the water. But I thought,
you know, this is r Max Maxwell was killed on
the boat. I was just rereading about mount Batton. Mount
Batten was assassinated on his boat in Sligo and that.
Speaker 2: One's William Colby went boating and never returned.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, the I guess on the Potomac, you know,
I mean, and like you think about what is skull
and bones like more than going yachting, I guess, you know,
it's it's this is this is their thing. I don't
know if that's connected, but I'm just saying that I
was rereading about the mount Batten thing in the seventies,
and what happened with that was that mount Batten was
in County Sligo at his house and the bomber, this
guy Thomas McMahon, found out that he was there and
put the bomb on the boat. And when he had
he had notoriously lacked security. And mount Batten's statement about
it was who wants to kill an old guy? Anyway,
it's like, you know, Royal family connected, so they they
there was no security and then there was recently. I
think there was a guy who who came out after
the Good Friday agreement and said, yeah, he put the
bomb on the boat, but I'm the guy who planned it.
The guy who planned it was X Army. So other words,
you know, that also is weird because that there's I've
read that that's somehow intelligence had something to do with
that because of mount Batten's the creepy things in his
life for how he was compromising the royal families and
they wanted him eliminated anyway, and and British intelligence was
partly running IRA anyway, they ran. Yeah, the chief spy
catcher for the IRA and the r IRA Army Council
was the Sky Fred.
Speaker 2: They also set up a brathel using a Jewish organized
gangster guy in the Ireland that entrapped several of the
IRA and they did a bunch of false flags playing
on the IRA.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, the chiefs spy catcher was the top
I RA Spy, which came out in two thousand and
three when I was living there. He was he was
he was a British agent and he was the chief
spy catcher for his whole job was for the Army
Council for the IRA to catch spies that were that
were you know, niche and on the IRA. And he
was an agent of course, which is just like the
Departed or something. But uh, but yeah, so he gets
off the boat, you know, and he escapes and he
and he walks right into this thing. And it's just interesting.
I think that with with these seventies films, I'm not
sure what the I mean, the point seems too obvious
to make. I know that that the director one of
one of his statements about his films, he did this,
he did Clute and All the President's Men, and one
of his statements was, oh, and he did The Devil's
Own which is an IRA movie, which is ties into this.
But one of his statements was that he wanted people
in the cinema to look at the person next to
them with a little more suspicion, you know, to be
a little bit more uneasy about what you see in
your daily life, which kind of you know, plays into
the post post Watergate era, post Vietnam and all this stuff.
But it's interesting that what we've seen since then, and
with the event that just happened with Trump and and
you know, these things seem to come to light more
and more, and especially with the one that just happened,
you know, in plain sight on television. You wonder, what's
the what's the end goal besides the kind of you know,
is it future shock? Is it terrorizing the public, is
it making them uneasy, make giving you know, a continuous
sense of chaos. Is it making people not you know,
not believe they're lying eyes? I mean, what what is it? What?
What's what's the end goal with just the continuous series
of these events.
Speaker 2: Well, when Telfler talks about future shock, he means that
things are coming that we're going to that are going
to be so upending, so such upheavals that society won't
be able to process it. So there's things that are
coming that are just going to be mind blowing with tech,
with the way that lifestyles will change. You know, he
was he was writing the nineteen seventies about alterations and
diet and people transitioning into new ways of living, polycules, vegetarianism, anarchism.
You know, Telfler was saying that all that would be
utilized and basically pushing us into the technocratic future. And
there is this subtle technocratic theme which is hinted at
throughout this movie again with the human engineering, the monkeys,
the video games, all of that, is that just as
they're they're playing and then being studied, you know, beaties
being played and being studied, and so in the same way,
the attitude of the technocrats is to view the humans
in general in this in this way. So I think
I read it, even with the technocratic theme here that
really we're all Warren battis being studied and being moved
into the kind of future where we can be managed
like labrats, like you know, monkeys. There's a book that
came out World as a laboratory, which is which is
this this mindset?
Speaker 1: But yeah, is the so is the scene with the
you know, the Ludovico scene in this is the point
that I mean, there's it starts off with you know,
it's just still I mean we mentioned but but it's
still scenes and words flashing on the screen and still
images sort of archetypal images, and then it slowly starts
to dissociate. So now we start to associate, Like it
says you know, country, and then we show scenes from Vietnam,
and then there's father and there's like a kid running
in the hall, and then we see like hanging, you know,
we start to see more and more grotesque imagery. But
is it slow like did they pace it that way
in the film, because it's a kind of slow burn
for the for the audience watching it. I mean, one
of the things about Clockwork Orange is that is that
when I watched the movie, I'm like, well, yeah, I mean,
I've seen it a million times. It's not it's not
shocking to me. But obviously the movie is shocking still
to some people, even with the implications you know, in
the movie, and and also that it's it's also interesting
that the movie was banned in England by Kubrick. He's
the one who pulled it from what so it makes
me think, what did you make the movie to play it?
Only to pull the movie because the absence of the
imagery actually going to the theater is more shocking than
actually seeing the movie. And does it drive you know,
does it drive sales? Does it you know all the
sort of typical things. But but it's like there's a
veneer about the film that it's so bad that it
can't even be shown in England, so it kind of
drives it drives interest in it in America or whatever.
But is this my point is is all this happening
because this is the kind of thing that we deal
with now, for instance, like with doom Scroll, with the
you know, obviously we are people are completely desensitized to things.
But is it a constant refresh right of the screen.
Is it just scrolling where you see? You can you know,
you get on TikTok and a person could see, especially
a young person could see cats and you know, flowery
scenes in America or flags mixed in with you know,
murders and execution war.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it is like disorienting because it's like a
constant machine gun array and there's no real consistent, consistent
pattern to it except that some of the images and
words repeat. So maybe we're also supposed to think of subliminals.
It was also kind of becoming popular at this night,
at this time to know about subliminals. This was like
some of the first points at which people were thinking, oh,
they're actually putting I mean, in other words, I know,
subliminal advertising goes earlier than this, but people were starting
to figure this out around this time. There was also
those subliminals, for example, that Aaron and Melissa had had
discovered over a truth stream some years back, where they
had noticed the old public service announcements that would come
on when the TVs would go at night, you know,
I'm talking about when the channels would go off, they
would play the national anthem, and they had discovered that
there were subliminals within the national anthem that was being played,
and the subliminals were very reminiscent of what you see
in the movie. It's stuff like, you know, follow the
state worship, you know God, remember your country, you know,
just weird stuff like that. So that it made me
think of that. And it is interesting again that it's
so innocuous in terms of that he's not really doing
anything other than sitting in a chair and they say
and make sure to put your hands inside the holsters
or whatever. He's got to put his hands inside of something,
and he's not supposed to move. But when you compare
this to the other images and films that we get,
like we watched a Total Recall because I just wrote
the chapter and start calling with three on Total Recall,
and like that's this just totally invasive, like brain machine
that you sit in. It's like, you know, Arnold's losing
his mind, going full like Arnold gasm over there. Yeah,
and then you've got you know, other presentations like you said,
like the Ludovico method. I don't know, I'm just contrasting
all of the.
Speaker 1: Or Jacob's Ladder, Like you know, we watched the Ladder
and it's just the absolute most hellish.
Speaker 2: Well remember Return to Oz and they put they put
her on the electro shock table. Yeah, trap her down.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that that that film kind of has
a almost an Exorcist thing, well sort of, I mean
in the in the sense of you know the famous
scene in The Exorcist where they they had to sigh
up and putting pazuzu, you know, flashing three times throughout
the film and the kind of uh. But but that
movie's different because because if you're going to test audiences
as far as what can drive them to their extreme point,
the movie already begins the movie. The tone of the
movie is already so horrible, right, So the beginning of
the movie is already silence and the sound of wind,
and then you know, juxtaposed with pictures of statues of
pazuzu and faces looking at you, and then mixed in
with I think the real subliminal thing in that movie
is the fact that that the girl in The Exorcist
is mimicking what the her mom's boyfriend says to her downstairs.
So all of the this, I think there's something to that.
The fact that the sexual creepy stuff that she says
when she's possessed is indicative of the fact that the
possession and the the a b u s the go
hand in hand with what made her that way. And
because you could you can hear, like when she starts
really cursing in the movie and saying the overtly sexual stuff.
You can hear the guys say it earlier in the
movie when he's downstairs at the party, and it's sort
of you sort of imply, it implies that she was
left alone with this guy at the house, and so
she's mimicking. You know. That's that's the sort of a
subliminal thing in the movie where we can't really why
why did this happen? Where did this come from? Other
than the fact that the mother also in that movie
is an actress, right.
Speaker 2: The author explicitly worked for. And then what's interesting, it's
and a lot of people consider one of the worst
movies ever if you make it to I think it's
Part three Extracists two. Now maybe I'm thinking of too,
the one that has uh Richard Burton in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's considered one of the worst movies ever. But
the beginning of the film, it's this secret government thing
that's studying children like Linda Blair and others who have
had these issues, and they specifically say autistic children. So
this is some sort of odd government almost mk ulture
type of project that's going on. Yeah, And I mean
it keeps with the theme of you know, the Satanic
and all that. But then in the third one with
the Gemini Killer, we also have these themes of again
Phoenix program, program to kill type stuff. Uh. And as
you probably know, Dahmer was a odd obsessive fan of
the Gemini Killer version, yeah, the part three, and he
would supposedly watch it and just rock back and forth
watching his PHS tape of three.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did an analysis of William Peter Bladdy's book,
which is called Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane terrifying title and
and there's a movie called The Nine Configuration, Yes, which
has starts Stacy Keach in it, And that's a blatant
Phoenix Program movie, I mean and again in that the
protagonist of the movie is playing an unwinning role in
finding himself in the very position that he does at
the end at the end of the book, at the
end of the film, where he's he's been hunting himself.
So if people remember, like he's he's brought into this
castle with a bunch of people that have gone you know,
they've they've Section eight or whatever from the army during Vietnam.
One of the guys is a is a supposed to
be an astronaut, and they're put they're trying to put
on a Shakespearean production and they're all actors in this
kind of marat sade avant garde Shakespearean production within a
castle where they're they end up sort of playing the
fools or playing themselves. And the psychiatrist who's brought in
to to diagnose them is Stacy Keach. And then he
later and in the end of the film spoiler people
at the end of the film, at the end of
the book, he's broken in this fight where he's trying
to defend the astronaut who's being stomped on by this
motorcycle just like Kenneth Anger Scorpio Rising motorcycle gang in
a in a bar, and he breaks to the extent
where he realizes he is Kane's he's Killer Kane, the
guy he's been looking for, and he remembers he has
a flashback to where he just was right before this,
which was in the jungles at Vietnam, and he's carrying
like heads and he's a He's called Killer Kane because
he like he uses like a piano wire. So he's
a pure like phoenix program guy. And in the book
it explains or it shows that he did that thing
in the jungle. He went back, they they X filled
him out of the jungle. They immediately told him you're
a psychiatrist, here's your ID, here's your mission. And he
was programmed right into it, put on the uniform, went
and then immediately went and did this thing where he's
now a doctor. It's total dissociation. But again it's just
like it's just like this, just like this film with Parallax,
where he he just kind of walks into it. Ninth
Gate also kind of does that. I mean, uh, you
know Johnny deppis, Yeah, he's playing like a noir detective
who's like on a mission to find this book and whatever,
but ends up being the guy who fulfills the very
thing in the book at the at the end of it.
Speaker 2: Do you remember too that this is a totally ridiculous movie,
but in a Universal Soldier where Dolph, Yeah, it's like
he trips out and flashes back to being the guy
who like collects the ears. Yeah, yeah, but he's now
he's like a reprogrammed super soldier. Yeah, he's the Universal forever.
Speaker 1: But in that right it is, Yeah, it's a Universal Soldier.
And his character in that is based on the guy
what's the name of that that colonel that Colonel Kurtz
is partly based on from Apoculars down the Ears for Beers. Yeah,
he said ears for Beers. He collected ears on a
necklace and that that that documentary about that guy is
funny because he looks not funny, but he looks exactly
like Marlon Brando in the movie.
Speaker 2: I always thought that, like in the Brando portrayal, like
they give him this very Kroleian sort of image. And
look like yeah, and one in a couple of scenes
he actually it actually looks like he's Crowley over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that famous picture of Croley like in the
black pajamas, basically like doing you know, with this nasty,
big old bald head. Also, what's his name? The Stalin
Scar's guard character in Dune is is clearly stolen from
you know, purposely stolen from Kurtz. There's a scene, there's
a scene in what's his name? What's the name of
the black guy of the black guy, the bad guy Baron. Yes,
so the Baron when they first show him and he
rises out of the black goo and he's all bald,
he does this thing where he like rubs his giant
paul over his bald head, and it's just like it's
just like Kurtz and I think that I did an
Apocalypse Now analysis and then Heart of Darkness, and the
Apocalypse Now film is obviously supposed to be It's a
Phoenix Program film. It's it's pure Phoenix Program. I mean,
even Scott Glenn's character Colby is the proto Willard in
that because when he gets to the place and they
see all the heads and he says Colby and he's
like standing there with like a well shot a shotgun.
Speaker 2: It's meta LSD M Kaldre too because of the Martin
Sheen story that he's really tripping in that scene when
he loses it a legend.
Speaker 1: Well, the so Martin Sheen had a heart attack on
the set. I think he actually did have a heart attack.
He was too old to play the character. So Martin
Sheen's Willard was a last minute fill in because Harvey
Kattell had already shot some of the scenes. He was
supposed to be the guy, and they thought, let's get
Harvey Kattell because he was actually a marine. We'll put
it put him in this thing. But he just didn't
screen test well or whatever. I mean, he was already
shooting the film. So then they brought in Martin Sheen.
And when Martin she did that first scene of you know, hey, buddy,
you go shut the door, I mean he's like, does
the the tai chi karate chops the mirror and you
know it smashed the samebody. He had a heart attack
in that scene. The one who was on LSD was
was Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper and Lance the Surfer were
both so whacked out on I think like Amphetamine and
LSD when they filmed the scene that Dennis Hopper's character
who is pure, like, that's the Jester character from Heart
of Darkness. He's the same, he's the same character as
the photojournalist. You can't go out in the space, man,
you can't go out in the space. And he said that,
he said that when he got there, that Brando like
hated him so so when he threw the book at
him in the scene where he's talking about dialectic physics, man,
you either you know dialectic logic. You either love somebody
or you hate him, and he throws Brando throws Jesse
Westons from Ritual to Romance like at his head while
he's reading TS Eliott, And that was that was like real.
They just they just kept they just kept rolling the foam.
So yeah, but it's the same, it's the same sort
of thing. I think Apocalypse Now is kind of the
sort of like the apex of these types of films
because it's so stylized and so surrealistic, so dreamlike, you know,
and it's the you know, people watch the film and
say that this guy's insane, but actually he's super sane.
He's he's like, he's like hyper sane, you know. He says,
I'm I was above there lying petty morality, whereas something
like like you were mentioning the body body double. There's
a movie called The Ousterman Weekend with John Hurt, which
is in the same it's like the tail end of
this nineteen eighty three, and again it deals with spies
and a guy is he The first scene is like
he's he's like doing the hunk of chunka with this
lady and he walks out and then she's assassinated before
he comes back in it, and they filmed it all.
So it's a it's a compromise situation. But also that
the director of these films, Alan jay I guess I
thought it was Pacula. I guess it's Pakola. That's what
the guy was saying. But anyway, he died under very
weird circumstances, just like an Omen and a scene in
Austinman Weekend. He was like driving along in some metal
like piece of a building, flew off of a building
and like impaled him in his car like a yeah,
like in the Omen Wow. And at the funeral they
were like, well, I mean you know this guy couldn't
have filmed it better, I guess, you know. But but life,
you know, life and art sort of finding their synthesis
somewhere in the middle of this, but so so in
the end with parallax view. I mean, I just think
this movie is so crazy. You know, it's it's a
big film. It's one of these big seventies films, and
it seems like one that would be, you know, right
for a remake. But I don't, I don't know if
they could do that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, Yeah, we just watched a couple
other seven these films that are pretty wild that they
couldn't really be remade, and one of them, like we
did Dressed to Kill. We got on a Brian to
Palmer kick. We've been watching all his because he seems
a pretty good more consistently than I expected to use
this whole this whole theme of you know, dissociation, trauma
based mind control. It's all over Brian to Paula films,
which I should have known, given the fact that he
did Black Dahlia. But uh, we watched Dress to Kill,
where Michael Kaine is a you know, psycho, uh t
R a n Z killer uh, spoiler alert, you don't
know that until the end, but now you do, and
that that that also has all the same voyeuristic, you know,
weird obsession stuff that's in all the Brian to Palm movies.
But another one that's overlooked in the same vein as
raising Kine where I knew you were going to say
that Michael H. John Lifke John, you know, a multiple
who has female alters apparently if by the end of
the film at least, and that allows him to escape.
And his dad has said to be a mad scientist
who's experimenting with traumatizing and creating and programming the altars.
So so we know that obviously to Palma has some
fascination and knowledge of this, and you know to what
degree he's he's uh, you know, consulted with agencies or whatever.
I don't know, but it's obviously there. But you couldn't
make dress to kill again because Michael Caine is I mean,
we're in the era now where we're supposed to accept
all of this as normal and holy. And of course
you know, Michael, I got, I got, I've got what's
he got? He's got a like a barber's knife, right,
He's like, I gotta cut it off. I got Blake,
I got Blake. Will what's he say?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: In the movie where they call him peenie Waggy, Peenie Waggles,
I'm trying. I was gonna say that, Michael Caine, Boys
Wayne Wayne, mister Jingles. Yeah, a wallie wagger, a weddy wagon,
waeney waggon, weenie wagger, that's what he says, we wager.
Speaker 1: Have you seen Have you seen the movie Doctor Giggles.
Speaker 2: A long time ago when it came out, Yeah, I've
seen it.
Speaker 1: Remind it sort of reminds me of that that that
and that in and dark Man both sort of that's
the same character.
Speaker 2: Brian DePalma also does this thing where there's this like
the there's a flash of light mm hmm all the time.
So when Michael Caine is supposed to be terrorizing the
prostitute and dressed to kill, she sees the flash of
light in the glint of the knife. In fem Fetale
with Rebecca Ramine Stamos, she's also a double altar Brian
de Palmer assassin Thie Woman. There's a flash of light
at the final sequence in the on the Corner where
all the stuff happens. Anyway, he does this in a
lot of his films, So I don't know if that's
like signaling the the you know, altering stepping into another
persona at.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that happened in a Return to Oz. Remember,
I mean she's lying on that she's getting seen by
the doctor, and there's the lightning storm outside. There's a
flash of light, and then she runs away and ends
up in the river. But but then when we see
the scene where they're the doctors are looking at her,
like all of the instruments look like the people the
characters that she gets. So the TikTok character is the
electroshock machine, and the same thing happens in the same
that same sort of glint thing happens, which in Red Dragon.
You've seen Red Dragon, Red Dragon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like everything turns transfigured basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he and he he there's a great
scene in Red Dragon where he kidnaps the journalist Philip
Seymour Hoffman, right, and he like straps him down in
the in the wheelchair and he says, you are part
of a great becoming and he's got these tattoos on
his back when Phillip Seamore. I was like, oh no, no,
oh no, you know, he's just and Ray finds like
turns around and he's like he's got the.
Speaker 2: Eating. Later on he says another something like, you know,
I'm becoming a deity. It's a poppy type of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He when he kidnaps Edward Norton's family.
At the end, he's holding his weapon is a mirror show,
which is like a triple meta thing here, he's got
a he kills with a mirror shard and he's holding
the mirror mirror shard to his face and he says
he's changing, He's part of a great becoming. So the
mirror shard, it's the same in Manhunter. I suppose the
mirror shard is the broken mirror. Is this broken mind,
the broken mind? Yeah, and he's going to transform him
as part of this red dragon Apathios this which is
like a gnostic you know, I guess the gnostic Apathios
is where he is now the beast. But he does
that through And also he's also in the scene with
phil seymour Hoffen. He's also showing films, so he's.
Speaker 2: Strapped down a film company.
Speaker 1: Remember that's right. Yeah, so so this is off. I
guess this is often the case with these characters. You
know that the who else worked in a film company?
Not Dennis Raider. It was one of the other guys
in Programmed to Kill worked at a film company.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the film is the mirror is the is the
film of your own mind? You're the star of your
own film? Yes, which kind of is like is like
the almost every work that I've covered, almost every literary
work has the house has this structure of the house
in it. And the best example is like weather in
Weathering Heights, the book Wathering Heights, which where he finds
is in the movie version when Catherine, the the ghost appears.
Remember she's this phantasm haunting him that he wants he
calls her up. He calls her up out of the
grave to haunt him his psychic mind, and she comes
to the window.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So they're always either looking through the window outside or
from outside in and the house, and the windows in
the house always function as some sort of looking glass,
some sort of psychic you know. Yeah, Clims, I had.
Speaker 2: An undergrad class on film and literature and we did
Wuthering Heights, and I remember This was like ten years ago,
but I remember thinking it's something like, wait a minute,
is Heathcliffe like an altar in her mind? Like doesn't
it's like a dissociation type of thing or a demon
or what what are we supposed to think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think Heathcliff has a kind of physical
altar because, for one, he's an orphan, he's a he's
a a street urchin, and he's adopted into this family.
And the first time that we meet him, we go
into the house and he's like a monster ruling over
the house. But he also wanders on the moors like
he's a werewolf or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a phantom or something else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he and and what happens is he's a
child and he's he is ill treated by his family,
especially his older brother, And then he disappears for like
most of the novel, and then he returns, not much
of the novel, but but he returns as a different character.
He's now a lord and rich, just like Rochester and
Jane Eyre. But when he comes back, his whole purpose
is like revenge against the family that gave him that.
And he's always wandering looking for Catherine, even though he
drove her. He drove her into this thing. There's a
great scene in the book and it's in the Ray
Fines version where he's standing there with Juliette Binoche and
then you know she's Catherine. They're falling in love, and
he he like blind. He covers their eyes and he says,
open your eyes. When you open your eyes, if the
sky is bright, so shall your life be. But if
you see storms, it'll be it'll be dark. She opens
her eyes and she says, oh, it's a wonderful day.
And then you hear this poor you know, and and
she turns around and it's stormy, and she says, oh no,
oh no. And he he's got like a smirk on
his face. He's like, yeah, that's gonna be stormy. But yeah,
he's a kind of a he's almost like some sort
of gnostic arkhon in the movie because he doesn't seem real.
And also we the reader are looking at him through
the eyes of the visitor to the house in the
first place, so there's a distance between us, and and
they're on the moors, so it's not the locust. Isn't
the typical London setting, you know, with people all around
it's like it's already isolated. It's almost like it's outside
of time. So that that happens quite, you know, quite
frequently in in in literature. I mean, it happens in
King Lear, it happens in in in McBeth, hed sort
of does the same thing. He has a sort of
a psychic break. Of course, it's his wife who is
in the coven, is my sort of what I think
about that, who's in the coven who's driving him towards
you know, I mean, he literally goes to a witch's
sabbath and drinks a brew.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the and the odd thing about that is that
all of the Witch movies and all of the verbiage
that they use, and all the books in films since them,
have come from that. They come from that. And one
of the reasons people scholars say that the play is
cursed is that he used a real spell in the
in the play, so it's a it's an inverted spell
in terms of its verse. So when they're putting all
their things in the cultar and it seems to be real,
which would make sense because he wrote it for King James,
and King James wrote Demonology in fifteen forty seven. So
but anyway, but this, this movie doesn't really have that.
It's it's totally almost straightforward with that, except for you know,
it's almost like it's the the opposite of that, instead
of having the cinematic bright flashes and the typical things
that you would see. It's almost so straightforward. I mean,
I just have a hard time, like getting over what
over Warren Bati's character in this. I mean, he's like
he played Jay Sebring in Shampoo. He's mixed in with
Polanski and Jack Nichols. Nothing his life, not in the film,
but he later is in political films. He's in Bulworth
and all that kind of stuff or whatever.
Speaker 2: But and he marries Madonna for a while.
Speaker 1: So weird. That weird, so odd. But anyway, you guys,
that is that is the parallax view in nineteen seventy four.
Anything else you want to say about.
Speaker 2: That, No, it'd just be cool. We should probably, you
know that we should do a couple more of these
sixties seventies. They are a political conspiracy thrillers like this.
There's you know, the classic conversation with Gene Hackman is
a great one to analyze. We could do something like
Day of the Jackal, we could do something like there's
a ton of these. I found several Michael Kaine, Majo Kaine,
Fan Chavkin from the sixties and seventies that are also
conspiracy intelligence thrillers. I mean, people are probably familiar with
Billion Dollar Brain at Chris File, where he's Harry uh
what's his face, the sort of the anti James Bond character,
But he's also in a bunch of these others, like
The Whole Croft Covenant, and he was doing quite a
few of these British spy thrillers during the sixties and seventies,
so those could be fun too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in a lot a lot of movies. And
actually I was the other The other guy obviously is
Donald Sutherland. I mean Donald Donald Sutherland is I just
I just caught a replay of the movie Outbreak the
other day, and I mean, even post twenty twenty rewatching Outbreak,
It's it's just crazy, it's the same. It's just draumatized
version of real life, you know.
Speaker 2: And you know we watched the Outbreak during the coup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Donald Sutherland is in like all
of these movies. And I was on T and T
with Hasher covering Donald Sutherland in a film I can't
remember which one, but then he died, you know, he
passed away just right after that. Actually, and also I
just did Chinatown. Chinatown was written by what's the guy's name,
John Uh, I can't remember the guy who wrote Chinatown,
but he passed away the next day, and he did
the rewrites for this movie. For a parallax for a
parallax view the conversation, Yeah, the conversation is great when
I covered that a while back, because it's, uh, it's
it's NSA, it's NSA before NSA, you know, and it's
it's so amazing. It's also obviously the prequel to Enemy
of the State with with Gene Hackman. Gene Hackman is
in another you know you mentioned, you know, straight up. Yeah,
And and actually the French connection, the basis of the
French Connection is the basis of what happens in Six
Days of the Condor. They switched the theme so instead
of oil fields, it's uh, you know, opium traffic. Yeah,
the uh, the the Tom Clancy what is it called
without is it without remorse? Is also drug based and
then they changed it for the Amazon, which you know,
which kind of ruined it.
Speaker 2: There's also, you know some of these other there's coma
the I think that's a Michael Crichton where they're you know,
basically organ trafficking, but also overlaps the mind control Odessa file.
I wrote down several possibilities here. Day of the Jackal
fresh connection. I've never seen executive action. You might have
covered that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, I haven't covered it, but yeah, I was just
I was just thinking about it during this because it's
it totally fits in line with this. Blowout is another one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I goofy face. Yeah, Andromeda Strain is really boring.
I've tried to watch it. We tried watching it in
the cove. I'd seen it before, and I tried to
watching it again and put me to sleep. Oh the Fury.
We did The Fury with the guys over at Slab Cinema,
which was fun in that Brian to Palma two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. And and The Day of the
you know you mentioned The Day of the Jackal. The
book by Forsyth is amazing, and The Day of the
Jackal is a great film, you know that. I just
before I came on here, I saw an ad for there.
They remade it with Eddie Redmain. Eddie Redmain was in
The Good Shepherd, right, and he's it's a remake of
Day of the Jackal, which would would also fit. And
I mentioned David Jackal when we were on DPH. I
think I mentioned it because you know, anytime you talk
about assassinations and and and all this stuff, Day of
the Jackal obviously plays into it. And Day the Jackal
is great because it's like this difference between sixties conspiracy
films and seventies. You know, you have the early Manchurian candidate,
and you have Day of the Jackal, and then you
and oa a sid World War two related events. A
lot of Michael Kaine movies are World War two related,
The Eagle is landed and all these things, and then
seventies gets into more what we have with this, which
is gritty sort of a it's like they took cinema
verite in European film in the sixties the end of
the sixties, and then they finally caught, you know, kind
of got a handle on it, and then made that
into the seventies and so they have this weird thing
where they're making Golden Age Hollywood. Films like Chinatown and
Godfather are clearly throwbacks the Golden Age Hollywood in terms
of their look, but the in terms of their form.
But the content is wholly of the time and relevant
and revelatory for right now. And I covered I've got
a book here called Hunting the Jackal, which is about
the actual Jackal. It's a great it's a great book.
And there's a series on the Jackal with what's the
name the French the friend of the I can't I
can't remember his name, the French actor. That's that's pretty amazing.
But the the way that those change in terms of
the de gall the de gall event is is pretty amazing.
That's a great film. I mean it's that's that's uh,
it's almost a complete opposite of the parallax view. So
so yeah, it would be good to cover some of those.
I mean, there's there, they keep they keep coming up
and they're so relevant or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have I wouldn't mind doing like a
DiPalma breakdown, you know, yeah, body double raising, kine, dressed
to kill because it's all the same and kill for
themes there. Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. All right, guys. Hey, anybody got any
super chats. Let me check the super chats real quick.
Let's see here, and thanks everybody. Thanks thanks to Jay
for coming on tonight and discussing this. Let's see we
got a Shouts out to real John Connor. Let me show,
let me get here. Shouts out to the real John
Connor who sent ten bucks in and let's see what
you said. Fucking open it. Real John Connor sent ten
bucks and says for ten mcchickens long ago, one point five. Now, yeah,
you get one point five mcchickens with ten bucks. Thank you,
real John Connor. I appreciate that, yo. Shouts out to Kristin, slowboy,
whiteboard out there. Crystaline sends five bucks in no comment,
Thank you so much. Christin, really appreciate you there. Let's see.
Let me look at the actual super chests there. Don't
forget you guys. You can grab a membership. I've been
kind of off here for two weeks, busy with doing
stuff in my life, but I'll be back doing members streams.
I'll be coming back with I'm gonna do an analysis
of Lawrence of Arabia, and I've also got a couple
of sponsored streams coming up. I'm I'm about to do
Beast versus Man, so I'll be covering Kujo the book
by Stephen King and also The Gray the movie with
Liam Neeson and the Ghost of the Darkness with Val
killing It. Also another sponsored stream is I Got The
Trial Franz kaf and then Cosmopolis by Don de Leo.
I've covered most of his work now, so we'll have
that come out. Let's look at some super chats. Here
shouts out to MAV right there with fifty bucks. He says,
fucking m LA get off for it, love you and Jay,
but Bonnicks out, Okay, thank you, mad for that fifty bucks,
Big Tom, thanks man, really appreciate that. Hey shouts out
to Jason right there. Thanks Jason, homeboy, says Jay, say
the word abyss please. That's two bucks, Jay, say the
word abysses. That's this. That's the rich.
Speaker 2: I gotta work with my Michael Kaine to get it better.
That nashta beish they talking about. Yeah, that's the Michael
Caine when he's playing there you go there, you got
James like a butler and that somebody cool gosha bla yahish.
Speaker 1: That's their uh that's their drinking game. Because I say
the word abyss. I guess every every stream talking about
I don't know, Paradise lost or something shouts out to
Jason right there, shouts out to Peter A for ninety
nine says, you guys have to do these streams more often. Thanks, Peter,
really appreciate you. Thanks for that ten bucks, Hey orthow
Boomer Grandma says no, note, yeah, since ten bucks, great stream.
Thanks guys, Hey, thanks, really appreciate you. OBG. Circle G
sends ten bucks and says, maybe I missed it, But
how about Warren Batty's hair? Jay, is that what you
were going for? I guess Warren batties w Warren Badi's hair.
Speaker 2: Eight months ago when I was growing up.
Speaker 1: Maybe what Warren Batty's hair in this is a It
looks like a wig. It's just a it's a mop pop.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh oh oh, we lost we lost him. He's coming
back in. We should we should still be good. I
think he's gonna come back in if we lost to day. Yeah,
Warren Batty's hair looks like a wig in this movie.
It also looks like Jim was shout out to Circle
G for that ten bucks, right there. It looks like
Jim Morrison's hair. It's clearly probably supposed to be Jim
Morrison's hair. Of course, he died three years before this,
nineteen seventy one. And let's see, Pim dropped five bucks says,
Reindeer game is a Christmas Rainer game? Rainer game? What's that?
Is that supposed to be a reindeer game? Thank you?
Pim drops five bucks and says, is a Christmas movie,
The Rider Game. Thank you, Pim, really appreciate that. Now,
we were saying that Warren Beatty's mop in this looks
like a wig, probably that he designed himself in the
movie Shampoo, where he played Charlie Manson and Jay Sebring.
But it also clearly looks like he's trying to imitate
I guess Jim Morrison's hair from three years before this maybe.
But Warren Baty's got something weird going like every time
you look at me, he's like he's got like duck
lips going on in this, And sometimes he looks like
Warren Baty. Other times he's dressed like a he's dressed
like Jacob's Ladder like amati.
Speaker 2: Hey, dude, thanks for having us a great chat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, man, really appreciate Hey. One more, We got
fifty bucks from MAV. Have you done Spartan yet? That's
Val Kilmer. Thanks, MAV. Really appreciate it. I haven't done that.
Speaker 2: Terrence, not Terrence Malick or what's his name? The that's
a really good uh, it's a really good film, Val Kilmer, right,
but he's he's seeking the president's daughters been kidnapped and
then there's like this a lot of stage craft going
on in that, but it was written by what's his face?
I just went blank.
Speaker 1: The guy who did Glengarry Glenn Ross. I think, uh,
the play right, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's uh supposedly became a libertarian conservative a
few years back and I got black ball from Hollywood
because he was listening to Glenn Beck.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just went like on his name the
thank you, mad. I really appreciate that. Fifty bucks. Hey,
thanks everybody. Thanks, Jay, really appreciate you and we hope
to speak to you soon. Man, appreciate you. Good night, y'all, peace, peace, y'all. Thanks,
see y'all on the see you next time. Hey, listen.
Was it worth it? Yeah, it's worth it if you're
strong enough that's right. Hey, everybody, If you want to
support me, you can do that through anytime, through super chats,
and I will be back soon with those streams that
I just mentioned. Love y'all, Appreciate y'all. That's all I got,
and peace,