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Speaker 1: Yo, what's up everybody. We got a big night tonight.

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We're covering the Parallax via the nineteen seventy four film

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and we got a special guest to help me cover

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this tonight. Everybody knows Jay What's up? Here's Jay Dyer

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from Jay's Analysis. What's going on? Jay?

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Speaker 2: What's up?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 2: Glad to be back with you. This is a conspiracy

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classic once again, just like Network that I never did

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really break down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you brought it up on the Actually when

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we did Network last time, you brought this one up.

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And also the term future shot came up, which is

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interesting because Warren Batty says that in the film, and

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this one comes, you know, people, I'm sure people have

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seen this. That they haven't seen it, then we've done

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their homework for them. But this one comes obviously in

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the kind of there's a bunch of seventies conspiracy films

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and there are a few of them are directed by

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this same director, and the cinematographer also worked on a

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few of them, and so Network All the President's Men Telephone,

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I covered the conversation cinematographer did the Godfather Godfather Part

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two Apocalypse now is in there. There's all these films,

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So where do you want to start with this one?

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Because it's it's of course extremely relevant right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the most obvious thing is that there's

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a lot of nods that I didn't recognize until I

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watched it this time. There's a lot of nods to

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the JFK stuff. And I mean we made a couple

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of notes on this because Jimmy and I watched this

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maybe two or three years ago, so I dug out

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my notes and we just rewatched it and noticed, you know,

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quite a bit that I didn't notice. But I think

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now that when when he gets to you know, the

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South and he's dealing with the with the good old boys,

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a lot of this I think is references to elements

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of you know, people thinking that elite oil people were

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involved in the JFK assassination, Texas, Big Texas, Uh, Dixie

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mafia people might have been involved in that. So there

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were some nods to things that I didn't catch the

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first time around, but really relevant, I guess now after

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you know, two weeks ago with Trump. So yeah, I

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would just kick it off by saying, yeah, it's in

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this vein of seventies conspiracy movies, and I just went

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through a couple of other seventies conspiracy movies too that

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have been kind of forgotten. Demon Seed is interesting. It's

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not relevant to what we're talking about, but Demon Seed

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is a Dean Koontz Crowley based film or story, and

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that one deals with like the new birth of a

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new aon through the birth of Antichrist, who's a kind

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of android figure. But this is more so again like

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MK Ultra, I couldn't think of that. There's a few

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other seventies stuff that's worth mentioning to you. In the

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early eighties, I don't know if you've ever seen Looker.

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Looker's a good yeah, MK Ultra. It's a little later,

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early eighties, but there were a few of these MK

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culture based films at this time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. This one also deals with the Journalist, right, the

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consummate seventies journalist, which I rewatching, especially rewatching a couple

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of times. I have questions about watching the movie because

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the one thing that they always do, I mean, all

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the President's Men is probably the best example of that. Or,

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of course Three Days of the Condor. I covered six

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Days of the Condor here, and the Three Days of

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the Condor film the book and the film, and of

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course the end of that one is interesting because Robert Redford,

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it's one of the only movies that was allowed access

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into the Big nine place in New York and it

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ends with that, and of course he's walking out saying,

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you know, I'm gonna expose everybody. I'm gonna take this

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to the New York Times, and they say, you know,

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how are you know they're going to print it all

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the Presidents men. Of course is based in DC, and

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you know is there are many scenes in the bullpen.

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But what's interesting about this is that you can watch

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this movie. It's kind of a straight movie and you

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you you realize that you're watching Warren Batty and it's

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very seventies and he's this journalist on the on the

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hunt for what happened at the scene at the beginning

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of the film. But then I noticed that every time

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he goes to talk to Hume Cronin, who's his boss,

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in the bullpen, like there's no one there, it's just him.

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And I'm starting to thinking like, is this some sort

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of form of handler that he has, This all some

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sort of you know, is this all synthetic? Is it

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just a show? And that kind of plays it, and

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I don't you know, I think you can watch the

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movie a few different ways, but there's so many elements

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in this movie that that really tie into the I mean,

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like the scene. This is nineteen seventy four, so it's

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after Clockwork Orange, but there's a very Clockwork Orange.

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Speaker 2: MK ultra yea method basically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but even that's different than than Clockwork Orange because

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when you watch Clockwork Orange and you're watching the scene

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where he's going through the Loutovico method, you know, we

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we the audience, are watching what he's watching and then

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we're watching him watching it. But this we see him

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from far away and we are kind of getting it's

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like we're supposed to be going through the Ludovico method

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because it's they're just showing the screen. It's very it's

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really bizarre. So if anybody doesn't know what the movie's about,

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what happens is basically just in a nutshell is that

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we have it. We're in Seattle. The movie starts, we

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see the space needle, We go up the space needle.

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Warren Beatty is there and there's a I guess a

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presidential candidate named Charles Carroll of all things. Charles Carroll's

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up there and there's waiters there in the restaurant at

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the Space Needle, and almost right away he gets unalived.

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And then we find out we cut three years later

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and we have this scene where Warren Batty like forces

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his way into these people's house. He ends up at

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a police station. Then he gets confronted by one of

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the reporters who was there and says basically that everybody

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that was at the event has been smoked. Everybody's going

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she's in fear for a life. Warren Baby is kind

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of playing the normy role here. He doesn't you know.

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He's like, ah, it's nothing, and then it turns out

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that she is like the next day. So then this

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sets him on a path of trying to figure out

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what happens. He goes through meeting various people. Then he

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tries to infiltrate his way into a corporation. He finds

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a leaflet inside of a deputy's desk or a sheriff's

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desk that says the Parallax Corporation. He tries to infiltrate

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his way into this. He goes through the Ludovico method.

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He ends up as a guy that he thinks he's

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going to expose how the corporations or there's some sort

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of corporate way of playing into an assassination squad or

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whatever it is. And then fast forward to the end

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of the movie and we have a gigant like a

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gigantic civic center where there's another candidate, and then Warren

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finds himself up in the rafters and the the great

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twist in the movie spoiler, the great twist in the

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movie is that he's up in the rafters, he looks down,

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he sees a rifle. The guy gets smoked. Warren baby

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tries to run out, and then he realized, you know,

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and he's gone. And then we realized that he's been

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a kind of unwinning Patsy and he's the guy blamed

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for it. And probably the the best part of the

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movie is the fact that it's bookended by the the

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the board, the government board who's investigating it. The movie

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begins after the first scene. It begins with we're closing

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in on this kind of Council of six, just like

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the Watergate.

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Speaker 2: Like a Warren Commission.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Warren Commission, And they are and they are

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saying that this is a there's no questions. There is

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a statement here. We're making a statement. We've we've found

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the guy. He was a lone nut, and that's it.

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The end of the movie is the same guys and

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they've said the same thing, but now it's Warren Batty

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and they pull away, and so we're we're giving a

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kind of glance into the system and then we're taken

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back out of it. So yeah, go ahead, No, you're

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go ahead. Well, I was gonna say that the movie

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is is so crazy because the one thing about it,

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and not to get too into the way that the

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movie is shot, but one thing about the seventies movies

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that's different from the from for instance, the seventies. I mean,

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you've talked about this so much. The seventies had like

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this whole lineage of conspiracy movies. The eighties it's kind

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of dormant. And then the nineties again we get a

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bunch of conspiracy movies, you know, conspiracy theory, we get

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we get the Will Smith movie. Then we go into

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the late nineties with you know, ending with big sort

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of glimpses into Illuminate, Confirm. But the difference in these

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movies is that there's a kind of tonal difference. So

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the seventies movies deal with kind of obvious post Vietnam,

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post Watergate sort of paranoia, and the nineties, you know,

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is very pre nine, a post Cold War. But the

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difference in the way that the movies look is that

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the nineties movies are usually cut. They're like jump cuts.

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It's you know, technology is coming and and we we're

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always moving fast with the characters. But the seventies movies

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are dominated by the framing and the scenes. So like

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the very first scene of this movie, it opens and

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we see this gigantic totem ball and we're looking like

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we're looking up at it, and then the total we

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kind of the camera moves, and then we see the

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space needle, and then we see these characters like rising

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into the sky. And every shot in this movie is

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dominated by like the like encroaching. There's nature, there's encroaching buildings,

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there's like big steel walls. There's the scene of the dam,

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and I guess what that's trying to show us is

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that we're getting this glimpse into this thing and the

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people are very small and the system is huge. So

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like if the scene if we're looking at the scene here,

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it's like the person is down here and all of

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this stuff is building or dam or or whatever we have,

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and so it's it reminds me of those like Japanese

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paintings of like the guys that are very small in

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the waves or nature are very big, but instead of nature.

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Speaker 2: And that's parallax too, right. I mean the name of

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the film itself, Parallax has to do with the way

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that things appear different depending upon your vantage point of

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your perspective. And I think there's multiple things going on

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because the corporation is called, you know, the Mega Corp.

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Is kind of like a big Holdings corp Black rock

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type of thing. It's called the Parallax Corporation or entity.

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And they also change and control your perspective. So I

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think there's a play on this idea of things being

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controlled based on perspective. And if Parallax can control your perspective,

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they can control your interpretation of reality. I think there's

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some quote from Kissing or something to that effect where

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it says we don't have to control reality, we just

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have to control the perception of reality. So I think

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that's point of this corporation. This excuse me, this mega

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mega entity, and it has this fingers like an octopus

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octazon on fingers. But you know what I'm saying, like,

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if they did, they would have eight fingers and they

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would be in everything. They have holdings that deal with

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even human engineering. So human engineering is the division that

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the film is concerned with, because, as you pointed out,

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Warren Beatty is kind of stumbling down this rabbit hole

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of accidentally discovering what all's really going on, and it

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turns out that it's, as you mentioned, a kind of

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a private uh Mirk force that's being recruited in a

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it's like a privatized Chaultra. So they've got some technique

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by which they break down individuals that they've profiled that

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have antisocial, sociopathic, psychopathic tendencies, and that makes them a

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good fit for this program. And eventually, because of all

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the you know, the problems that Warren Baty's having in

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his life as a journalist, he's you know, third rate.

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They say, he's you know, struggling look at for money,

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he can't keep a girlfriend, he keeps you know, losing

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his girlfriends. They keep saying, oh, you're perfect for this program.

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You need to be in the security detail. That's what

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you're made for because you don't. You're not like other people.

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And they play on his vanity, right, They they butter

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him up and say, did you ever consider that it's

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not you this the problem, but it really is everyone else, right,

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That guy butters his A corporate handler guy butters him up,

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and they eventually get him into this. But I'm getting

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way ahead of myself, but yeah, I think you're right

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that the camera plays a trick with perspective. Like you said, well,

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you have this, you know, totem pole that's close up,

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and then it pans over and you see the space needle.

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It's far away, but they kind of look like the

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same size, and that's kind of again an example of

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playing with and twing with perspective, which is what the

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paralyzed corporation itself does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Keep in that scene with the guy

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who's buttering him up, like he's literally putting butter in

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a pan when he's when he's doing that, he goes

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into his and we get this view like we're already

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inside the apartment and we I'm skipping forward here, but

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we're inside of his shitty apartment. I mean, it's the

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worst apartment. The bed is right next to the front door,

248
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and then there's a little there's a little kitchenette right there,

249
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and the guy's like, you know something, whatever you're cooking's burning.

250
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He later comes in and the guy's lying on his

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bed his feet or in view right when he walks in.

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And and there's the great scene which I'll come back to,

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but there's a great scene where he he reaches out

254
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to this psychologist who is the guy who that's the

255
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guy he's in license to kill, you know, he like

256
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runs the whatever. He goes into this uh, this obvious

257
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like I don't know what it is, like a Jose

258
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Delgado facility, walking again. There's a monkey in there playing pong,

259
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and he shows him the the the list of you know,

260
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the test for the Parallax Corporation. You you'll make a

261
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great fit. And he's like, do you think you can

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tell me how to take this test and answer, you know,

263
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like a psychopath And the guy literally goes, We'll just

264
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have Jim Jim over here take it. Yeah, this guy,

265
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this guy you know, smoked his aunt and three other people,

266
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He'll take it. And then the camera cuts over and

267
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this guy like walks out of the back. Notice he

268
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takes the chimp away, like the guy is gonna be

269
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a threat to the chimp, right, The guy walks in

270
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and the guy's like and he's like, yeah, we'll just

271
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have this guy take it. And the guys looks like

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Charles Whitman or something, you know, he's he's the most cycle.

273
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So the guy takes the test for him and answers

274
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off the charts like this guy's the biggest psychopath you've

275
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ever met. And then he But the question is like,

276
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is this part of it is this is even the

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way that he goes about this part of it?

278
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Speaker 2: Right? Because if, as you pointed out, we wonder and

279
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,639
this time watching it through, I think what happens is

280
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you want a new vantage point again to play on

281
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the title of the film, because if you know the ending,

282
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then you want to go back and say, well, so,

283
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how far we're they actually profiling Warren Batty as a

284
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suitable candidate or recruit. And it's entirely possible, like you said,

285
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to read it as if it was it was early on,

286
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because he tells the story as you mentioned later on

287
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that oh I was, you know, partying one time and

288
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I was drunk and yeah, you know, I ended up

289
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running around somehow with my clothes off, and some woman

290
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claimed that I was a you know, tally whagger or

291
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,200
wagger or whatever they call it, a willy willy wagger

292
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whatever they call it in the movie. And he says

293
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that ruined my career. And then he says, but I'm

294
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pretty sure somebody put something in my drink, which suggests

295
00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:41,960
again that perhaps he had been uh, they had orchestrated

296
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,360
this to get him into this position where he couldn't

297
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find good work and employment as a journalist anymore, and

298
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he would be this candidate. And it is the case,

299
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as his ex girlfriend points out at the beginning, that

300
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he kind of is a selfish guy, like he doesn't

301
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,600
really care. She points that out, She's like, you don't

302
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,720
really care. He's like, well, you know whatever. He's kind

303
00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:07,960
of just aloof and apathetic. But then when she dies,

304
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,240
he seems to be more concerned because then he starts

305
00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:13,080
wondering if something really is going on. And I like

306
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,440
the idea that a lot of these seventies movies promoted.

307
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:22,759
You know, this is like coming after Watergay Woodward Bernstein stuff.

308
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We are sold on the idea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that.

310
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Speaker 2: In the seventies or even in the sixties, right, that's

311
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,519
like the height of intrepid journalists who are out there,

312
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ready to get the scoop at all costs, and the

313
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:39,879
truth comes first. They're willing to die, they'll lose it

314
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,039
all just to get the story, to expose the baddies

315
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,399
and to get the word out. And now I think

316
00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:49,039
it is solidified in everyone's mind, this this idea, particularly

317
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,360
maybe in the sixties and seventies, of the role of

318
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:54,519
the journalist as the fourth estate. And I don't think

319
00:16:54,559 --> 00:16:58,679
they could have had that role without movies propping them up.

320
00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:00,919
You know, this is I mean, we're ess interiesally because

321
00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:03,879
nowadays we're living at the end of the fourth estate,

322
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:08,000
and you know, legacy mainline journalism is literally dying before

323
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,839
our eyes. In the last several years. Their numbers are tanking.

324
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,240
So it's interesting to see the propaganda in the nineteen

325
00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:17,519
seventies that the journalist is out there, you know, to

326
00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:20,240
get the scoop at all costs. He's willing to even die,

327
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you know, to expose somebody, assassinating some politician, And of

328
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,279
course that's not the truth about journalists at all. Anyway.

329
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:30,359
Just a side note, that.

330
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:33,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, also, you know, his his boss Hume Cronin,

331
00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:38,000
who was this you know, old older Hollywood actor even

332
00:17:38,039 --> 00:17:41,359
in this movie early seventies, he's like one hundred years old.

333
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Has this counterpoint to the Jason Robard's character and all

334
00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:51,519
the presidents men in that film. Woodward Bernstein's boss seems,

335
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,759
I mean, he seems to be on the surface at least,

336
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,960
you know, he's running he's running the post or whatever

337
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,440
it is, and he's you know, off, you know, and

338
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,039
you got to find the evidence. And it's like a

339
00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:05,240
straight up journalist. He's the editor and he's pushing them

340
00:18:05,599 --> 00:18:08,519
and they're off doing their their shenanigans and their journalistic

341
00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:10,599
work and all this stuff. But in this movie, it's

342
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,839
different because it's much more local and you go in

343
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,319
and it's it's just one boss in there. There's one

344
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:16,799
scene at the beginning where they go in there's like

345
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:19,240
two guys in a kind of in a mirror, but

346
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in the rest of it, there's nobody in the office.

347
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:26,400
And he takes like an unnatural ownership of his character,

348
00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:29,240
like he's a handler. He you know, he's he's he's

349
00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:31,319
offering him money. He has the money in the in

350
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,839
the envelope, he talks about his personal life. You know,

351
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,000
we gave you another chance. You know, you're best described

352
00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:41,079
as what does he say, like a hostile misfit before

353
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,079
he before he goes on later to say that he

354
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,880
has you know, blatant andy social behavior meet, which means

355
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I don't like to put up with people who are

356
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trying to fuck with me or whatever he says later

357
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,400
on in the movie. But with the human cronin Boss

358
00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:53,920
is almost like this father figure. And the weird thing

359
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,039
about this movie is again that I think when you

360
00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:01,319
first watch it, you're so even if people are young

361
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,799
and they are watching it and they don't know who

362
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:04,920
Warren Batty is, if they don't know the lore of

363
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,559
Warren Bady or whatever, you watch the movie and you go,

364
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,799
this guy is. You know, he's obviously a movie star.

365
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,279
He's a striking guy. And part of the seventies thing

366
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,400
is you watch him and you feel like you're watching

367
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,759
Warren Baty play a role. But on a rewatch, you

368
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:22,759
watch the movie and you go, I feel like I'm

369
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:26,960
watching a guy playing Warren Baty playing a role like that.

370
00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:30,119
He doesn't he doesn't have that many lines in the movie.

371
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200
He does weird things. He doesn't his personal life is

372
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,400
very strange. He's like living in a motel and it's

373
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,759
almost like am I missing something? And then by the

374
00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:41,680
end of the movie you kind of figure that out.

375
00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:43,440
And then like you were saying, you sort of start

376
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,319
to think, is this guy somebody else? The whole time,

377
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,440
Like he looks like a normal guy in the movie,

378
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,519
but he also looks like a bomb at times, he

379
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:54,359
looks like a you know, he just he looks he

380
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,519
looks at the beginning, actually the first scene in the

381
00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:01,160
movie where you see him is before. Okay, so the

382
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,920
movie opens, you see the the totem pole, you see

383
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,720
the space needle, and then you wait for this weird

384
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,160
like parade typical probably you know, political parade. It's like

385
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,400
these Indonesians are dancing. And then you see this guy

386
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,200
come on a fire truck like like Daniel da Lewis

387
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,759
and gangs in New York or something, and it's like,

388
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:20,240
I love Fourth of July. And then when you look

389
00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:23,119
at it, when we're looking side on and he goes

390
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,880
up to be interviewed by the lady with the short

391
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,839
hair who's baby's friend. Later you see Warren Bady in

392
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,759
the background. He's behind like ten people, so he's not

393
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,519
even in the he's not in the forefront. He's in

394
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:35,720
the background of all these people. You see the guy

395
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,319
in the in the foreground with the glasses on, the

396
00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:41,319
Austin Talker character. You see the lady. You're like, people

397
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,799
are milling around, but you're like, what's this guy milling

398
00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:47,599
around in the background. And then when you rewatch the movie,

399
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,599
you're like, this is this is an assassination. It's clearly

400
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,960
about to happen with kind of sketchy characters in the background,

401
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,359
but Warren Batty's one of them. And then when they

402
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,440
go up into the space needles, what's interesting is that

403
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,400
it's very quick. It's it almost happens right away. We

404
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,200
have the waiters and we have like the switch off,

405
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,039
the handoff with the tray, which doesn't like make sense

406
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:12,519
in terms of continuity, because we see we see the

407
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,319
actual assassin's face, which is clearly him. I mean like

408
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,759
there's a post here and he kind of he kind

409
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:19,440
of like comes out from behind this post. You're like,

410
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,440
that's clearly the guy. And then they we watch the

411
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,640
assassination take place from the little balcony outside of the

412
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,680
glass so first we're inside of the thing, and I

413
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,279
know that I know that the Gordon Willis, the guy

414
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:38,079
who photographed the movie, said that what he liked about

415
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,960
what he did with these movies was like, you can

416
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:44,759
see the city scape, you can see Seattle in the background,

417
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,440
but we're supposed to be concentrating on the characters in

418
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,000
the foreground, but they're kind of shadowed, and so the

419
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,640
exposure is is like, Hi, we see the outside, we

420
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,359
don't see their their faces, and then all of a sudden,

421
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,400
we go to the outside and we're looking into the

422
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,799
space needle through the glass. And he said in an

423
00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:04,119
interview they asked him like, w what did you do

424
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,799
this for artistic effect? And he said, well, like he

425
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,680
was an older Hollywood guy, He's like, well, listen, the

426
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,000
whole point of this, you know, is that if I'm

427
00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:14,400
doing a movie and I'm gonna shoot the movie and

428
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,799
they say, all right, we need fifteen cuts here in

429
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:20,440
this scene, that I cut the cuts. So basically, I say,

430
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,440
we can get this done in three And the only

431
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,559
reason he did the glass was for effect, because because

432
00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:27,440
it allowed for when he got shot, for him to

433
00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:30,519
streak down the glass and see the bloodstain. But he

434
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:34,039
said all the intellectual interpretation comes later from other people,

435
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:37,319
which is an interesting way to think about artists doing this.

436
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,240
But what it shows this is that we're like looking

437
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:43,400
in through we're looking through the looking glass on this

438
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,440
thing that's happened on the inside, and all of a

439
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,440
sudden things start to change in terms of continuity. Because

440
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,839
when they chase the waiter, who is one of the

441
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:55,720
guys with the gun that later happens with Beatty, he runs,

442
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,200
you know, after the assassination, and he runs on top

443
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,799
of the space needle and they chase him. There's a

444
00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:02,519
great scene where he's on top and then they he

445
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,440
falls and he trips and falls and falls off, gives

446
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,720
a will A Wilhelm scream. But it doesn't make sense

447
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:11,400
because we were just on the balcony. So there's a

448
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,039
balcony here and then the space theedles, So if he

449
00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:17,119
fell off, he fall onto the balcony, but we assume

450
00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:20,200
that he falls off like into space. He falls off

451
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,559
into the ground. But the whole point of that, I

452
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,319
think is that, like you said, like our our perspective

453
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,200
is distorted by events we don't know. We can't believe

454
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,599
our lying eyes, and even though there's clearly two guys

455
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,319
with the gun there, everybody's just gonna remember the one guy.

456
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,000
There's even in that scene, there's even a woman in

457
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:44,599
a polka dot dress. It's RFK r L. Later and

458
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:47,680
all of the people that are that are there start

459
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,039
to get start to disappear, and when they go through

460
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,880
the list of people disappearing, I mean, it's exactly like JFK.

461
00:23:54,839 --> 00:23:56,319
Speaker 2: You know, there's a news clipping and one of the

462
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,759
names that's listed as sir Han. I'm not I don't

463
00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:04,000
know if the reference to, but it was probably there intentionally,

464
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:06,960
just as a nod. And the same thing occurs with

465
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,680
the way they play with the lighting when the handler

466
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,440
comes to his apartment and sells him on coming to

467
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,440
do the security stuff. At that point is basically you

468
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,680
can't see his face, and so he's essentially become not

469
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,160
He has no identity, You can't identify him anymore, and

470
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,720
so that you're right to point out that he was

471
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,319
probably profile because they saw him as a person at

472
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,079
a breaking point who was really lost with no identity.

473
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:35,319
The corporation will give you an identity, will tell you

474
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,799
that you're, you know, the fittest hit man out there, Right,

475
00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:43,920
you're gonna get a Hitman of the Month award. Yeah,

476
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:48,240
you're a special person. So and they saw him on that.

477
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:51,880
But I think the other elements, as you point out,

478
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,599
is that this is a recurring motif that was already

479
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:00,440
making its way into film after multiple hits including JFKRK. Okay,

480
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,039
we're getting this recurring theme of the random loan shooter

481
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:13,119
who is a nut, right, the loan Gunman's it's being

482
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,200
criticized in the film as obviously not that not the case,

483
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:20,160
But as you pointed out, we're only we only know

484
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,640
what the official story is of these events, and so

485
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,680
that's the parallox view, which is that there are there

486
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,680
actually corporate merk squads that are hired by these cutout entities.

487
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,240
And the answer is yes. And in fact, in the

488
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:39,279
nineteen eighties, the intelligence operations of this kind, these sort

489
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:41,559
of black ops things, they get more and more privatized.

490
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:45,960
There's a famous situation where Reagan privatized a lot of

491
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,920
the intelligence in the nineteen eighties and took it away

492
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:52,319
from the more normal sort of CIA role of who

493
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:54,559
would have been doing this in the fifties and sixties,

494
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,880
even under JFK. They were moving more of this stuff

495
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,119
to be under the cover of NGA and other entities

496
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,599
that weren't the classic sort of CIA, and let's you know,

497
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,000
bring in a Green Beret sniper out of Vietnam to

498
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,079
do this kind of stuff. Now it's turning into more

499
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,079
and more of a privatized thing, and that's really probably

500
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:18,079
the norm today is that this again it becomes prophetic

501
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,960
in terms of how mercenaries and assassins would probably be

502
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,640
recruited nowadays. So it also reminds me of, you know,

503
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,920
Dave McGowan's Program to Kill books because her book and

504
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,839
then other other books that have touched on this, which

505
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,680
is there's a you know, the Navy guy Thomas Narreutu

506
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,160
talked about the Navy recruiting psychopaths to be assassins a

507
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,640
couple of decades ago, and the Phoenix program obviously is

508
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,799
probably there's a nod probably to the Phenix program in

509
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:54,319
this film, which was the William Colby plan during the

510
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,559
Vietnam War to basically create psychopaths to terrorize the viet

511
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:02,359
Cong to to win that conflict through terror. And then

512
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,480
of course Dave McAllan theorizes that many of the some

513
00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:08,640
of the main serial killers that we know of might

514
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,000
have been part of that program because they were trucked

515
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,279
off the Vietnam. They did involved themselves in doing LSD

516
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,319
and other things, and so it's very possible. It's interesting

517
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:20,359
that there's not a lot of the drug emphasis in this,

518
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,559
although he does say that one line that he thinks

519
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:25,240
they drugged him at a bar one time. But I

520
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,519
like that the method that they use is kind of ambiguous.

521
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:31,319
It's I mean, it's corny because you just see this

522
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,720
screen that flashes a bunch of like depression era images

523
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:37,319
and I'm sitting here thinking this is.

524
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: Kind of a low energy, very low energy depressing mk

525
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,640
ultra thing where it's like it flash's mother, father, me,

526
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,720
home country, God, enemy, happiness, father and mother.

527
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 2: They show you know, Soviets and Cold War stuff, they

528
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,200
show Castro. So I'm thinking, well, this is really just

529
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:58,119
kind of the manipulation of archetypes. So it's a very

530
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,759
sanitized Ludovico method, because, as you pointed out in Kubrick's

531
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:06,759
version of Ludovico method, you get like actual you know

532
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,000
t O R t U R E. You get you know,

533
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,240
drugs presumably being given to to Alex. You get his

534
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,240
eyes being forcibly kept open. You know, he has to

535
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,960
watch just horrendous things. This is a lot more tame,

536
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:24,799
a lot more boring, and we don't really know what

537
00:28:24,839 --> 00:28:28,119
it is, but it's almost like, well, Warren Beatty is

538
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,519
the monkey right when he first walked into that to

539
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,839
the Parallax Corporation, and then he's watching the monkey play

540
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,279
the video games, which again there's this there's a symbolic

541
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,240
prophetic significance there that the technocratic elite are going to

542
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,920
make mankind be like a bunch of monkeys playing video games.

543
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,279
This is think of the viral video a few years

544
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:53,400
ago where the monkey was just scrolling on his Instagram feed, right,

545
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160
and he couldn't stop. So that's where we are, and

546
00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:01,319
Warren Beatty is the experimental test chump. Will be mind

547
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:05,680
controlled too, or I mean, he's not explicitly mind controlled

548
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,640
to be you know this like programmed assassin with trigger

549
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440
codes like we often think of it, but it's enough

550
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,039
of it that he's kind of nudged into being at

551
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:16,960
the right place in the right time to be the Patsy.

552
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because the thing with the monkey is,

553
00:29:20,359 --> 00:29:23,400
you know they still show videos of monkeys like playing pong,

554
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,599
and they say, look, it's only a few years until

555
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:27,759
you know, it's like the movie's from nineteen seventy four

556
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:30,359
and it's doing it in that And you're right that

557
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:34,799
the rockwell asque like still picture version of this with

558
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,359
the awful song. I mean, it's almost like he's traumatized

559
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:40,799
into the thing because the song is so bad. It's like,

560
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,599
you know, Mother and Daddy and it's like this seventies

561
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,000
sort of country Joe in the fish like country song playing.

562
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:50,079
I think I guess the point of that is that

563
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:53,319
the difference between Alex undergoing this and him is that

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,279
one we can't see Warren Baty's character undergoing it. He's

565
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,319
far he's far away, just like we saw the court

566
00:29:58,359 --> 00:30:01,240
scene at the beginning with the bench and he just

567
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,160
comes in and they say, you know, please sit down.

568
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,319
He sits down willingly and watches this film which goes

569
00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:09,039
on for too long. But it's not like it's not

570
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:12,039
like Alex in the Ludovico method, where Alex enjoys the

571
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,200
he's like, I'm here to see the videos, you know,

572
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:17,480
and he he's watching it and it's only it's actually

573
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:19,640
in that film. It's like you said, it's the combination

574
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,400
of drugs, the eyes, the straight jacket, probably electro shock

575
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440
or whatever, and they're not showing. And then the fact

576
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:31,279
that they mix in all of the imagery with with

577
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,799
a replay of crimes that he himself has done. So

578
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:38,799
so it's like it's supposed to hit him and it's

579
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:41,279
not until they add the auditory element. With Beethoven, it's

580
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,839
like his programming, his programming code. But I sort of

581
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,279
contrasted that with there's a I read this book on

582
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,319
Mangola and it talks about the you know, some of

583
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:55,359
the and and he and Klaus Barbie both did this

584
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,480
in World War two, you know, and they get they hired. So, see,

585
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,519
I hired Klaus Barbie because at the end of the

586
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:04,880
war for people, for the folks at home, people did

587
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,839
not know that at the end of the war, when

588
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,200
the Allies were looking for, you know, somebody to deal

589
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,200
with their new enemy, who better to deal with it

590
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,119
than the guy who was tasked with, you know, infiltrating

591
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,680
or or finding you know, breaking communists, I suppose. So

592
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:24,960
one of the things that Klaus Barbie did was when

593
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,680
they when they wanted to find out information or whatever.

594
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:29,960
They snatched a guy. It's just like Phoenix program. When

595
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,119
they snatched a guy. What they did was they asked

596
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,960
him a bunch of questions and the guy would you know,

597
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:37,960
he would lie or whatever, and they said, okay, that's fine, Well,

598
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,599
for your service for being in here, and to apologize,

599
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,039
we have a gift for you, and they would give

600
00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:44,119
him a gift and it was a box and it

601
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
was just like in seven. They would unwrap the box

602
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,200
and open the box and it was like his wife's

603
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,880
head in the box and they would say now you know,

604
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,240
now what do you think? And the guy would be

605
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:57,960
completely shattered, completely broken, and they'd bring in other you know,

606
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,200
people close to him that he knew, and they would say, now,

607
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,519
this is gonna happen in front of you, So think

608
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:02,920
I would be willing to just go, you know, I'll

609
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,880
work for you whatever you want. And the Ludovico method

610
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,880
like kind of sort of hints at that, not like

611
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,720
that Alex. He's a psychopath anyway. But this movie is

612
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:19,160
strange because it's because they are trying to find a

613
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,640
person to do these things, but they've already found him

614
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,000
because he walks into the thing. But also his daily

615
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:30,559
life already is already in line with what they want.

616
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,039
I mean, so so for instance, when he goes in

617
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,440
and visits the like bar or whatever, and he's and

618
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,440
he gets in the fight with the deputy and the sheriff.

619
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:41,440
He gets out of it by he doesn't stop. I mean,

620
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,240
he even comes in like through the wall and he's

621
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,480
still fighting. And then when they take him to the dam,

622
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,039
he fights the sheriff. When he steals the car, he

623
00:32:49,079 --> 00:32:51,160
crashes to the grocery store. It's very quick. He like

624
00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:53,839
crashes into the grocery store, runs out the back, gets

625
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,119
in a truck, and leaves. He's got an amazing way

626
00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:58,240
of getting out of trouble. He can just kind of

627
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:02,000
slip through anywhere. So I guess that's part of them finding,

628
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,480
you know, this guy who seems to be able to

629
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,039
infiltrate all these places. The craziest scene, though, to just

630
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:11,119
sort of jump ahead here, the craziest scene is when

631
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,119
he's tasked with like following the guy and he's the assassin.

632
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,960
The assassin knows that he's being followed, right, and then

633
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,599
he goes to the grocery store parking lot. He switches cars.

634
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,160
He's got the suitcase, He goes to the airport, gets

635
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,519
on the plane, and Warren Batty apparently, I guess at

636
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:30,200
the seventies you could just walk right onto a tarmac

637
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,039
and just walk right on a plane and play and

638
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:36,880
pay right there. I mean, it's crazy, he just walks

639
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,519
onto the plane. But that's not the crazy part. The

640
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:43,640
craziest part is that when you rewatch the movie, you

641
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,359
realize Warren Batty follows the guy onto the plane. He

642
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,960
knows the guy has a bomb in his in in

643
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,680
his suitcase. He tries to write on the mirror, he

644
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:56,720
erases it, he writes it on the cocktail napkin, and

645
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:58,880
then he calmly sits down and then waits for the

646
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,039
plane to land and then just walks off the plane.

647
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,160
And he has no emotion about it. But the fact

648
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,920
is that he's followed a guy that he knew had

649
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,119
to bomb onto a plane and gets on the plane

650
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:11,880
anyway and then gets off again, which is insane. So

651
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,920
so I guess he is the perfect guy.

652
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, the corporations, right, they have profiled him accurately. Yeah,

653
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:23,159
and he's creating the unfortunately, the myth and the narrative

654
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,239
that's perfect for him to be Patsy. You know, it

655
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,280
makes me think of it's well, not the characters, but

656
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,039
it's just similar patterns to the movie Shooter with Mark

657
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:38,719
Wahlberg Marky Martin. But one thing I did want to

658
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,840
mention that I forgot to mention was all that scene

659
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,000
with the redneck sheriff and all that, and this had

660
00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:47,440
to be like around the time of Dukes of Hazzard, Like,

661
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:50,000
so they just say, like, let's just put in a

662
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:53,320
whole sequence that's like Dukes of Hazard level stuff, right, yeah.

663
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even even the music gets crazy. I mean the

664
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,800
score is Basil Polydorus and the car chase turns into

665
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,440
like where where wait? I know, honk, you know, like

666
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:04,159
crazy zany noises, and then they jump, you know, the

667
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:09,480
cars jumping. Gordon Willis said that that when he was

668
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:11,920
talking about the cuts in the movie and framing the movie,

669
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,719
he said that the only scene that he disagreed with

670
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,440
the director about was that particular scene. The first of all,

671
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,960
he said, the fight scene. His expression was, he said,

672
00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:22,880
we had to Corey. You know, they had a choreograph

673
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,400
this fight scene and he fights the sheriff and I

674
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,519
was like, what are you doing? What is this? This

675
00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:28,719
doesn't fit in the movie. I don't. I don't understand.

676
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,920
And then we had to go through this long, tedious

677
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,639
car chase where it didn't make sense. That's my he

678
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,119
said it was the least favorite scene that he's ever filmed.

679
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:41,480
But I guess the point. The point is that, again,

680
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:44,320
the things don't fit. It's like even the audience watching

681
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,639
the thing, We've been watching this sort of heavy handed

682
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:48,400
conspiracy movie and all of a sudden we're in some

683
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,679
sort of zany car chase, like we're watching a movie

684
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,840
like Warren Batty is in a movie of his own mind.

685
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,880
So it you know, it's like the things, the things

686
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,599
don't quite fit even when they By the way, did

687
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:04,119
you notice that the deputy, the deputy that he fights

688
00:36:04,159 --> 00:36:05,960
at first, the weird guy who comes up to him

689
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,639
and he's like, hey boy, yeah, did you know that that? Yeah?

690
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,679
Did you notice that that that guy is a Wilson,

691
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,360
the neighbor in Home Improvement?

692
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I noticed you did look familiar. And

693
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,519
then I noticed the guy that he's talking to when

694
00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:25,519
he's riding that little train around the park. That's Auto,

695
00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:31,199
who plays the the owner of the ranch in Malcolm

696
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:31,719
in the Middle.

697
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: So there you go. The movie predicted a lot.

698
00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: Of weird figures up later and other things.

699
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: Well, the train scene is weird because you know, he's

700
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,599
got to go talk to a guy and they're going

701
00:36:46,679 --> 00:36:50,079
to go talk about a pulmonary embolism pill, a pet

702
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:52,400
pill that you know, is that the same thing Frank

703
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,159
Church talked about, you know, at the at the church

704
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:56,519
hearings when they talked about the heart attack gun and

705
00:36:56,639 --> 00:36:59,039
the the things that get and this is before that.

706
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:02,679
I suppose, so the weapons that can mimic a heart attack,

707
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,960
there'd be no there'd be no evidence of it. But

708
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:09,320
it's crazy because they're sitting on toy trains, like I

709
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,000
guess they're hiding in plain sight, but and there there's movement.

710
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,079
They're they're constantly moving through the narrative of the movie,

711
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,800
but they're like they're on these toy trains like it's

712
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,559
a I don't I don't know what that is. It's

713
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:25,440
some sort of like like it's a game. I suppose,

714
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:27,639
like he's on a he's on a track that he

715
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:29,519
can't get off of until the end of the movie,

716
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,679
or it's some sort of game he's playing like he's

717
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,840
a child on on adventures it was very strange, very

718
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,719
strange place to to talk to this guy. And and

719
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,199
the the strangest scene for me that I can't really

720
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,920
understand is the first time we see him after three

721
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,079
years and Warren Batty like knocks on this door and

722
00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:53,559
it's this old you know, couple inside and he's like, yeah,

723
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,480
you know, my parents in the backyard. I need to

724
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,199
get my parent and he just walks into the house

725
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,519
and then he turns around and again is looking through

726
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:04,440
the looking glass into the house, and then there's like

727
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,840
a drug raid and I can't I can't understand what

728
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,719
he was doing. Was he was he investigating something? What

729
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,840
was it said? It's almost like he shows up at

730
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:19,280
the house not knowing what he's doing there and sing.

731
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: Like you said, like like he's wandering through all of this.

732
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the fact that he's looking for his parent also,

733
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,320
it's like like he's parroting the things that he's supposed

734
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,360
to say. And there's a there's a weird drug raid

735
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,320
almost like this is the part where he's going to

736
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,440
be compromised into whatever the program is, because he ends

737
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,000
up getting bailed out by human cronin and they're going

738
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:44,039
to charge him with a bunch of stuff, but he's

739
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:45,639
going to get it, but he kind of talks his

740
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:47,400
way out of It's almost like a first test. But

741
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,960
how did he how did he get there? What's he doing?

742
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:52,480
I didn't I didn't understand that.

743
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:55,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah I didn't even catch that. That's

744
00:38:55,639 --> 00:38:58,920
a good point. Yeah, he made some really good points too,

745
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:06,639
about how like his character is not like he he

746
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,199
doesn't at all act like a normal person. And I

747
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:11,960
think that's why they call him an unusual personality. Right

748
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,840
when the guy comes to talk to me, says, you know,

749
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,079
we're really in the business of looking for unusual personalities,

750
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:20,440
and we think you fit it. And the first time

751
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,159
I watched it, I didn't really pay attention to that.

752
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,840
I just thought was just this journalist who's like trying

753
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,559
to get a scoop. And then then this this next

754
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:29,840
time through, it's like, no, there's a lot more that's

755
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,639
off with him that you don't realize the first time through.

756
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,360
And then you start to notice more and more, like

757
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,880
how messed up he really is. And they've figured that out.

758
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,960
You're figuring that out, like the corporation has figured that out,

759
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,119
and they're just tweaking him into their nudging him into

760
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,880
being the perfect Patsy. That again, to bring it to

761
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,280
like modern day, that's a lot more likely what I

762
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,519
think happened in the last big event. You know, according

763
00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:03,760
to the the official story of who the person is

764
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,440
in terms of the shooter, if that's that guy Crooks,

765
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:09,519
you know, he seems to be this kind of a

766
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,760
person this I mean, not identical to Warren Baty, but

767
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,639
a person who's nudged into this situation. And when I

768
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:18,840
talked to Sammy the Bull right after it had happened,

769
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,639
he said, well, if I was doing this, that's what

770
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:24,559
I would have done. I would find somebody who would

771
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:29,239
be a suitable, perfect Patsy candidate. He says, we would

772
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,159
have told him we'll give him the moon, right, we're

773
00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:33,880
going to promise you all this stuff. You're going to

774
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,599
be a hero. Don't worry, we're gonna protect you. But

775
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:39,360
we have a contingency plan all along that he would

776
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,760
be taken out right right. And I think that's, you know,

777
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:48,119
the exact same attitude of the corporation here parallax. And

778
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,559
I think this also again fits with probably the way

779
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:57,360
things really occur is that people are profiled, not because

780
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,159
the establishment is ultimately a bunch of he who bust crimes.

781
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,599
I mean they're pro crimes are busted on a mid

782
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:08,239
and low level, but at this kind of a level. No,

783
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:13,519
they're profiling individuals to find out who's a suitable, useful psychopath.

784
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:16,719
It can be a tool for this sort of you know,

785
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,239
super international corporate entity that's knock bound by any rules

786
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,440
or laws. And I thought it was fascinating too that

787
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:28,000
they used these all kinds of methods. I mean they

788
00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:33,000
poison you know, his editor, they will sniper other people.

789
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,119
I mean they have all the means at their disposal,

790
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,920
and they have a very adept stagecraft. And essentially the

791
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,559
whole final sequence is getting Warren Bady into the position

792
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:49,320
of being in the rafters at not the actual event,

793
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:52,559
which is fascinating because they didn't do it at an

794
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:55,039
actual event. They do it at the rehearsal, which makes

795
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:59,159
more sense to actually get the job done. And you know,

796
00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:01,519
he's in the exactly the position that they wanted him,

797
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:04,119
so he's played the entire time and he ends up

798
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,079
becoming the perfect Patsy because he fit the profile of

799
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:11,559
the perfect Patsy. But that stage craft dimension, I thought

800
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:15,360
was pretty fascinating that well. The first time I watched it,

801
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,039
I was like, well, he's a Patsy, but I didn't

802
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:21,719
think about how how well the corporation had played him.

803
00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, car crashes, playing crash is poisoning, drug overdose, heart attacks,

804
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,159
it's all the sort of common things. The scene with

805
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,840
the sheriff and the deputy reminded me also of JFK

806
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,400
with the the event happens and then they roll out

807
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,800
the Patsy. He says he's a Patsy, and then this

808
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,599
guy in a ten gallon hat comes out, you know,

809
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,039
in the famous photograph, And it was just like that.

810
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:50,400
Also all of the movies and books that I've read

811
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,559
with you know, with Leo's acting as as sort of

812
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,800
hired enforcement for this, and one of the things in

813
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,559
the movie is there's a continuous like series of initiations

814
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:04,760
into this, and one of those is obviously with the deputy.

815
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,000
You know, the deputy comes up, insults him, degrades him.

816
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,599
It's in a public place. There's a honeypot right there,

817
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,639
there's a you know, spring Mere mk betas sex kitten

818
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:16,920
that comes up right right up to him in the bar.

819
00:43:18,039 --> 00:43:20,840
You know, and when you watch the movie, it's like, oh,

820
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,519
the two guys, the two Hillbillies or whatever in the

821
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:26,239
bar are going to be angry because the girls got

822
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,519
up and left. But actually they let the fight go on,

823
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:31,920
and he's even I mean again, he's like even being

824
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,719
thrown through walls. They destroyed the bar, until finally the

825
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,400
sheriff just cool, cool, calm and collected. It's like, I

826
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,119
wouldn't have let it go on too long if I

827
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:41,920
thought it was going to be bad. Let's go fishing.

828
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:46,280
And then he takes him to the very scene where

829
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,760
the last guy was killed and where the last guy

830
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,360
was he walks right into this and this is a

831
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,719
crazy see if you guys haven't seen this movie, it's

832
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,159
a crazy scene because he goes to this dam and

833
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,000
we get this giant wall, the giant you know, cement wall,

834
00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:03,920
this concrete wall, and they're the rocks and there's this

835
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,960
this little stream. He kind of goes down to investigate,

836
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:10,920
and you hear this just huge siren. It reminded me

837
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,199
of that new movie The Zone of the Zone of

838
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,159
I forget the Zone movie about the World War two thing.

839
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:22,599
This loud almost like programming siren to to snap you

840
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:26,000
into whatever. It is and it's so loud, and all

841
00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:28,400
the water coming out. It's like the waters are rushing.

842
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,320
The things are about to happen, just like with the train,

843
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,440
you know that there's gonna be a flood of events.

844
00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:36,760
And they don't move. They're just standing there. And he

845
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,719
turns around and the guy, the sheriff is holding a

846
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,360
gun on him, and he quickly like well, he like

847
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,360
snaps him in the head with a fishing rod and

848
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,800
he's got to fish. It's so fasty and he whips

849
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,920
him with it and then he they fall. They of course,

850
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,679
they fall into the river. Which is my thing, Like

851
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:57,880
if you're whatever, I watch movies and and this happens

852
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,639
and you're being chased, I always think, just jump into

853
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:03,960
the water, just get away. This guy, the sheriff is

854
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,679
so fat anyway, he's you know, like swimming away from

855
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:10,760
the guy. He gets up, steals the sheriff's car, goes

856
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,440
to his house. He goes right to his house, goes

857
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:16,280
right into his house, walks right into his library, walks

858
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,519
opens the drawer and he finds the leaflets. For now

859
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:22,760
he's I guess he's been initiated into this thing. And

860
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,840
here's the here's the the you know Phoenix program test

861
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,400
list of do you've in? The list is hilarious. It's like,

862
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:33,960
do you ever feel like you have no friends? Do

863
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,440
you ever feel like everyone's against you? Do you do

864
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,159
you wish you could blow torch the whole world? Then

865
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,199
and then of course then he goes to the MK

866
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,000
culture Lab. But it's almost like a series of initiations

867
00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:49,320
and and Baty is is very weird. I know Warren

868
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:56,079
Batty was Warren Batty before this was in his real life,

869
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,840
was in the Governed Inner Circle right before the movie

870
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,679
was made. He was like close friends with McGovern and

871
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,719
then they couldn't make the movie because there was a

872
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,760
writer strike, but he pushed the movie through it anyway.

873
00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:11,480
I guess is it George McGovern?

874
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: Oh? I thought you mentioned CIA analyst Raymond Govern.

875
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: I think it's George was a big yeah, a big

876
00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:20,559
Democrat donor for them. Warren Betty is also from here,

877
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:23,079
by the way, he's from He's from Richmond. Warren Beatty

878
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:26,360
and his older sister Charley McLain are from weirdly or

879
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,760
from here, and and like they weren't just born here,

880
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,360
they grew up here. And uh. And also the writer

881
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:36,039
of the book Laura, his name is Lauren Singer. Was

882
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:41,400
oss and his name is Lauren Adeleston Singer. I couldn't

883
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,239
find any connection with the obvious, obvious person. But but

884
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,880
it always plays out this way. It always plays out

885
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,280
that the outer events, like you were saying that the state,

886
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,280
you know, the stage craft of the events themselves always

887
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,559
seemed to mirror and mimic the making of the movie itself. Right.

888
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:02,599
So Three Days of the Condor, there's that famous picture

889
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:06,719
that was in Vanity Fair or whatever of of Richard

890
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,920
Helms and what's his name? Well, what's what's the actor's

891
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,199
name in Three Days of the Condor? Oh my god,

892
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:20,840
I can't, I can't. Sundance Film, Sundance Film Festival. What's

893
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,400
the guy all the presidents met Dustin Hoffman and I

894
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,480
can't think of the seventies actor, the big guy somebody

895
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:32,719
in the chat. What's the guy's names? Donald Donald Sutherland

896
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,159
was in this guy's previous movie, which is clute. But

897
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,960
Robert Redford, it's what I'm thinking. Robert Redford and Richard

898
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,639
Helms are off, they're on. Richard Helms came to visit,

899
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:47,519
came to visit the set of Three Days of the

900
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:52,159
condor that that's a paid consultant for this. So it's

901
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:55,000
it's very it's very weird. The stage crafts the sort

902
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,000
of stagecraft element as if, and that obviously comes to

903
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,679
play with the argo you know where we have Hollywood

904
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:05,880
in Hollywood, uh, working with intelligence. But I think the

905
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,119
weirdest part of this movie is that, like you know,

906
00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:12,280
you were mentioning before that, the I think the reason

907
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,079
the movie is successful is because the Shenanigans aren't too

908
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:20,039
It's like the programming scene, it's it's very matter of fact.

909
00:48:20,119 --> 00:48:25,239
There's no you know, mind bending psychic break. We go

910
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,239
to the office of the corporation. They literally have human

911
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,159
engineering on the kiosk to go up into the place.

912
00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:34,280
The guy comes and visit him. He's walking around. They

913
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,480
go to grocery stores. It's a very matter of fact,

914
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,079
which I don't know what that what that means, other

915
00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:44,079
than it says to me that sometimes the you know,

916
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:47,719
there's the there's the deep sea spiracy, but there's also

917
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,039
the hit just completely hidden in plain sight.

918
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he reminds the psychology of Warren Batty as

919
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,360
this protagonist reminds me of Nick Cage and eight Millimeter

920
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,159
like nick cage and eight millimeter is kind of messed up,

921
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:04,840
and he can't quit following this rabbit hole, right, Like,

922
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:09,239
even though there's every red flag possible is constantly in

923
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,119
his face, he can't stop, right, He must pursue this

924
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,519
for whatever reason for And it's sort of like why

925
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,159
is he doing this? Right? I mean, he's lost everything

926
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,039
and you know, but he continues with this. There's another

927
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:28,280
movie we just watched that also on the stagecraft point,

928
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,679
reminds me of this film. Have you ever seen the

929
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,480
Brian de Palma nineteen eighty four movie Body Double?

930
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I was just talking about that with somebody

931
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,239
the other day. Yeah, it's another one of these, yeah.

932
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Body Double. The main character is an actor

933
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:48,320
who can't find work. Well, he has work, but he

934
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:56,079
has a crippling claustrophobia. And this other prominent guy, wealthy

935
00:49:56,119 --> 00:50:00,440
actor guy utilizes this weakness in him as this character

936
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,599
who's sort of led along this path entire time to

937
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:08,599
play a role as the eye witness to a staged murder.

938
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,320
I mean, there's a murder, but it's it's all stage

939
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,039
and it's not what you think it is. And uh,

940
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:17,559
it's a situation where this you know, high level Hollywood

941
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:22,079
person is utilizing the tricks of Hollywood to to beat

942
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:26,639
the cops. And he's even casting his traumatized friend or

943
00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:30,440
not really a friend but his buddy. And then there's

944
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,920
this really weird voyeuristic sort of Melie Griffith. There's those

945
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:41,119
like meta levels of voyeurism where he's intended to be voyeurized,

946
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,719
voyeuristically looking at people through a window, and then he's

947
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,400
other people are watching the whole thing, and it's it's

948
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:51,639
and then it turns into him having to become enter

949
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,239
into the world of prawn and take on an alternate.

950
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:57,840
It's almost like he's a mind controlled individual as well,

951
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:03,239
because he's traumatized. So the main character there is is

952
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:10,159
more of a weak traumatized persons micaetrol person. Warren Batty

953
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:11,880
is not at all weak. He's sort of like the

954
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,159
the ultimate assassin, I guess you could say, because he

955
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,000
really fears nothing, Like, no point does he. I mean,

956
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:25,400
he only really fears his own end, but nothing else,

957
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:28,199
right he wants Yeah, I don't even think he cares

958
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,639
about the scoop anymore. Right, at a certain point, it's

959
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:34,239
just sort of like he can't resist continuing down this path,

960
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,679
like why why wouldn't you just walk away? At a

961
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:39,119
certain point when he realizes what he's up against.

962
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's on a trajectory, like with the

963
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:47,079
train scene, that he doesn't show any indication of human feelings.

964
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:50,039
I mean when he's confronted by his girlfriend or his

965
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:53,440
friend or whatever, and she, you know, she says to him, oh,

966
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,159
all these things are happening, and then she that's a

967
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:58,639
great scene because that actress is in just like those

968
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:02,199
two scenes, and she's great because when she shows up,

969
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
we assume there's a relationship or a former relationship between them,

970
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:08,360
even if it's just that they happen to be the

971
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,880
same event before or they were both journalists or whatever.

972
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,480
But she's trying to tell him what's happening, and he

973
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:18,079
says to her, you know, she says, I'm in fear

974
00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:20,000
for my life and he's like, oh, more in fear

975
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:22,320
than you were the last time. And she says, I've

976
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:28,599
never committed suicide successfully before. And then and and then

977
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,440
the the drug scene or the overdose scene happens, I guess,

978
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:34,039
and then he's in the you know, he goes to

979
00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:36,039
visit her in the which is another strange scene because

980
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:38,440
when when we see her lying on the slab in

981
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,159
the morgue, we see her and we see the two

982
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:44,239
doctors talking, and then it's only after they leave the

983
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,599
room that Warren Betty, who's off he's off frame, comes

984
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:51,360
into frame like he's now walking into this into this

985
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,079
new this new life or whatever. But nowhere in the

986
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:57,760
movie does he show anything other than that he wants,

987
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,679
like you're saying, like he wants to continue, he needs money,

988
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,320
he needs an advance. And even the scene where it's

989
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,400
just the strangest scene where he's at home and he's

990
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,000
cooking and he gets a knock on the door and

991
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:12,039
the guy comes in, and this is clearly he knows

992
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:14,920
he's being hunted. He's been hunted. Everybody knows he's in

993
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,280
this thing now. But he lets he's like, he leaves

994
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:19,639
the door open. He's like, well, I guess you can

995
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:21,320
come in if you want to. And the guy walks

996
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,360
in and this is the guy who's gonna be his handler,

997
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,960
and he's he just turns around and then the guy's

998
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,480
this line. He says, so how tall are you six

999
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,920
six' one of the guy says at Warren band He

1000
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,840
says six to two and then he's like, you, I

1001
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,920
thought you were taller than that. And he's like, who

1002
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,920
gives a fuck how tall I am, buddy? And then

1003
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,800
he you notice in that scene when he's cooking, he

1004
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,119
like burns his hand and he drops it and he

1005
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:46,800
likes spat. He freaks out. He has a spats and

1006
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,199
the guy like has this slight smile on his face,

1007
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,559
this smirk, and he's like, yeah, you're just the guy.

1008
00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:55,320
You're just the unhinged guy that we want, you know,

1009
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,199
telling him to put water in ice on it like

1010
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:58,639
he is if he's in a grown man who doesn't

1011
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:00,760
know what to do after he's burned his hand. But

1012
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,400
he needs these these handlers throughout the movie. And he

1013
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,639
only freaks out in the very last scene when he

1014
00:54:07,679 --> 00:54:10,199
sees the light from the door open and he starts

1015
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,679
running towards the door as if he can get away.

1016
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,360
And that's it.

1017
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was watching that. I was wondering, like, why

1018
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,920
does he lay there so long? Because if he had

1019
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,679
gotten out when he first sees the doorway, he might

1020
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:26,639
have made it, but he hesitates for so long.

1021
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:31,119
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he also crawls down onto the thing

1022
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,679
where the gun was so he walks right you know,

1023
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,400
he goes right into it, which is also kind of

1024
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,559
indicative of the beginning of the movie when the waiter,

1025
00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:43,960
the guy who was hit his role at the beginning

1026
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,599
of the movie, also runs out into the light into

1027
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:50,960
the outside and also falls down onto something else. And

1028
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:57,000
it's also that he continuously walks right into the places

1029
00:54:57,039 --> 00:54:59,880
where the other people have been assassinated, so like with

1030
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:03,239
the plane scene or with the damn scene. The other

1031
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,559
scene that we haven't mentioned is when he finally finds

1032
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,880
Austin Tucker, the guy with the glasses at the beginning,

1033
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,159
who is the political consultant who's who apparently has enough

1034
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:16,519
money to insulate himself and he has a you know,

1035
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:19,000
he sends his bodyguard to go find him. But I

1036
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,360
was watching, Yeah, when I was watching the movie for

1037
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,360
the first time, they get on the boat and I

1038
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,800
was thinking, don't get on this boat, dude. You think

1039
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,079
you're you're safe everywhere, you know, anywhere you go, the

1040
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:31,480
boat is the don't even you read the things. The

1041
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:33,440
boat is the last place you're going to be safe.

1042
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,320
So he gets on the boat. They're sailing. The guy

1043
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,079
does this weird thing where he like takes a nap

1044
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:40,559
for five minutes and then he gets back up. He's

1045
00:55:40,599 --> 00:55:42,760
back at the back of the boat with his bodyguard,

1046
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,039
and then the boat blows up and baby just like

1047
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:48,360
jumps off the boat into the water. But I thought,

1048
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,639
you know, this is r Max Maxwell was killed on

1049
00:55:51,679 --> 00:55:55,840
the boat. I was just rereading about mount Batton. Mount

1050
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,400
Batten was assassinated on his boat in Sligo and that.

1051
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,119
Speaker 2: One's William Colby went boating and never returned.

1052
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,639
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, the I guess on the Potomac, you know,

1053
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:10,440
I mean, and like you think about what is skull

1054
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,760
and bones like more than going yachting, I guess, you know,

1055
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,719
it's it's this is this is their thing. I don't

1056
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,039
know if that's connected, but I'm just saying that I

1057
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:21,280
was rereading about the mount Batten thing in the seventies,

1058
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,920
and what happened with that was that mount Batten was

1059
00:56:25,559 --> 00:56:29,800
in County Sligo at his house and the bomber, this

1060
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,320
guy Thomas McMahon, found out that he was there and

1061
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,280
put the bomb on the boat. And when he had

1062
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,000
he had notoriously lacked security. And mount Batten's statement about

1063
00:56:41,039 --> 00:56:42,840
it was who wants to kill an old guy? Anyway,

1064
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,880
it's like, you know, Royal family connected, so they they

1065
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,079
there was no security and then there was recently. I

1066
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:53,480
think there was a guy who who came out after

1067
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:55,239
the Good Friday agreement and said, yeah, he put the

1068
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,000
bomb on the boat, but I'm the guy who planned it.

1069
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,519
The guy who planned it was X Army. So other words,

1070
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,639
you know, that also is weird because that there's I've

1071
00:57:05,679 --> 00:57:10,000
read that that's somehow intelligence had something to do with

1072
00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:14,320
that because of mount Batten's the creepy things in his

1073
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,519
life for how he was compromising the royal families and

1074
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:20,039
they wanted him eliminated anyway, and and British intelligence was

1075
00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:24,920
partly running IRA anyway, they ran. Yeah, the chief spy

1076
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:27,440
catcher for the IRA and the r IRA Army Council

1077
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:28,199
was the Sky Fred.

1078
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 2: They also set up a brathel using a Jewish organized

1079
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:38,199
gangster guy in the Ireland that entrapped several of the

1080
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,639
IRA and they did a bunch of false flags playing

1081
00:57:40,679 --> 00:57:41,119
on the IRA.

1082
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, the chiefs spy catcher was the top

1083
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,079
I RA Spy, which came out in two thousand and

1084
00:57:47,119 --> 00:57:48,679
three when I was living there. He was he was

1085
00:57:49,519 --> 00:57:51,960
he was a British agent and he was the chief

1086
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,960
spy catcher for his whole job was for the Army

1087
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,239
Council for the IRA to catch spies that were that

1088
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,440
were you know, niche and on the IRA. And he

1089
00:58:01,519 --> 00:58:04,320
was an agent of course, which is just like the

1090
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,400
Departed or something. But uh, but yeah, so he gets

1091
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,440
off the boat, you know, and he escapes and he

1092
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:14,039
and he walks right into this thing. And it's just interesting.

1093
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:18,199
I think that with with these seventies films, I'm not

1094
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,039
sure what the I mean, the point seems too obvious

1095
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:26,039
to make. I know that that the director one of

1096
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,400
one of his statements about his films, he did this,

1097
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:30,920
he did Clute and All the President's Men, and one

1098
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:32,880
of his statements was, oh, and he did The Devil's

1099
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,280
Own which is an IRA movie, which is ties into this.

1100
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,239
But one of his statements was that he wanted people

1101
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,760
in the cinema to look at the person next to

1102
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,079
them with a little more suspicion, you know, to be

1103
00:58:43,159 --> 00:58:45,519
a little bit more uneasy about what you see in

1104
00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:48,199
your daily life, which kind of you know, plays into

1105
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:51,760
the post post Watergate era, post Vietnam and all this stuff.

1106
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,559
But it's interesting that what we've seen since then, and

1107
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:58,199
with the event that just happened with Trump and and

1108
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,159
you know, these things seem to come to light more

1109
00:59:01,199 --> 00:59:04,199
and more, and especially with the one that just happened,

1110
00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:09,079
you know, in plain sight on television. You wonder, what's

1111
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:12,480
the what's the end goal besides the kind of you know,

1112
00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:16,719
is it future shock? Is it terrorizing the public, is

1113
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,440
it making them uneasy, make giving you know, a continuous

1114
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,280
sense of chaos. Is it making people not you know,

1115
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,360
not believe they're lying eyes? I mean, what what is it? What?

1116
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,760
What's what's the end goal with just the continuous series

1117
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:30,440
of these events.

1118
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: Well, when Telfler talks about future shock, he means that

1119
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:38,239
things are coming that we're going to that are going

1120
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:45,719
to be so upending, so such upheavals that society won't

1121
00:59:45,719 --> 00:59:48,400
be able to process it. So there's things that are

1122
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,639
coming that are just going to be mind blowing with tech,

1123
00:59:52,159 --> 00:59:55,119
with the way that lifestyles will change. You know, he

1124
00:59:55,199 --> 00:59:59,239
was he was writing the nineteen seventies about alterations and

1125
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:07,960
diet and people transitioning into new ways of living, polycules, vegetarianism, anarchism.

1126
01:00:08,159 --> 01:00:10,039
You know, Telfler was saying that all that would be

1127
01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:15,159
utilized and basically pushing us into the technocratic future. And

1128
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,039
there is this subtle technocratic theme which is hinted at

1129
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:23,039
throughout this movie again with the human engineering, the monkeys,

1130
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,239
the video games, all of that, is that just as

1131
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,599
they're they're playing and then being studied, you know, beaties

1132
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,480
being played and being studied, and so in the same way,

1133
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:36,559
the attitude of the technocrats is to view the humans

1134
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,320
in general in this in this way. So I think

1135
01:00:39,559 --> 01:00:43,599
I read it, even with the technocratic theme here that

1136
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:49,519
really we're all Warren battis being studied and being moved

1137
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:53,000
into the kind of future where we can be managed

1138
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:57,400
like labrats, like you know, monkeys. There's a book that

1139
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,920
came out World as a laboratory, which is which is

1140
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:02,320
this this mindset?

1141
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:08,239
Speaker 1: But yeah, is the so is the scene with the

1142
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,719
you know, the Ludovico scene in this is the point

1143
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,079
that I mean, there's it starts off with you know,

1144
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:19,679
it's just still I mean we mentioned but but it's

1145
01:01:19,719 --> 01:01:22,920
still scenes and words flashing on the screen and still

1146
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,760
images sort of archetypal images, and then it slowly starts

1147
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,480
to dissociate. So now we start to associate, Like it

1148
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,920
says you know, country, and then we show scenes from Vietnam,

1149
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,519
and then there's father and there's like a kid running

1150
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:37,960
in the hall, and then we see like hanging, you know,

1151
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,880
we start to see more and more grotesque imagery. But

1152
01:01:41,079 --> 01:01:43,280
is it slow like did they pace it that way

1153
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,239
in the film, because it's a kind of slow burn

1154
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,599
for the for the audience watching it. I mean, one

1155
01:01:48,639 --> 01:01:52,760
of the things about Clockwork Orange is that is that

1156
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:55,679
when I watched the movie, I'm like, well, yeah, I mean,

1157
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:57,440
I've seen it a million times. It's not it's not

1158
01:01:57,519 --> 01:02:01,639
shocking to me. But obviously the movie is shocking still

1159
01:02:01,679 --> 01:02:05,000
to some people, even with the implications you know, in

1160
01:02:05,039 --> 01:02:08,760
the movie, and and also that it's it's also interesting

1161
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,639
that the movie was banned in England by Kubrick. He's

1162
01:02:12,679 --> 01:02:15,760
the one who pulled it from what so it makes

1163
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,480
me think, what did you make the movie to play it?

1164
01:02:19,079 --> 01:02:23,639
Only to pull the movie because the absence of the

1165
01:02:23,679 --> 01:02:27,039
imagery actually going to the theater is more shocking than

1166
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:30,239
actually seeing the movie. And does it drive you know,

1167
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,519
does it drive sales? Does it you know all the

1168
01:02:32,599 --> 01:02:35,960
sort of typical things. But but it's like there's a

1169
01:02:36,039 --> 01:02:38,159
veneer about the film that it's so bad that it

1170
01:02:38,199 --> 01:02:40,280
can't even be shown in England, so it kind of

1171
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,079
drives it drives interest in it in America or whatever.

1172
01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:48,559
But is this my point is is all this happening

1173
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:51,119
because this is the kind of thing that we deal

1174
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:54,480
with now, for instance, like with doom Scroll, with the

1175
01:02:54,519 --> 01:02:58,760
you know, obviously we are people are completely desensitized to things.

1176
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,119
But is it a constant refresh right of the screen.

1177
01:03:03,159 --> 01:03:05,639
Is it just scrolling where you see? You can you know,

1178
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:07,920
you get on TikTok and a person could see, especially

1179
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,400
a young person could see cats and you know, flowery

1180
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,599
scenes in America or flags mixed in with you know,

1181
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:18,639
murders and execution war.

1182
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it is like disorienting because it's like a

1183
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:28,159
constant machine gun array and there's no real consistent, consistent

1184
01:03:28,199 --> 01:03:31,079
pattern to it except that some of the images and

1185
01:03:31,159 --> 01:03:35,719
words repeat. So maybe we're also supposed to think of subliminals.

1186
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,119
It was also kind of becoming popular at this night,

1187
01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:41,880
at this time to know about subliminals. This was like

1188
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,760
some of the first points at which people were thinking, oh,

1189
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,440
they're actually putting I mean, in other words, I know,

1190
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:52,079
subliminal advertising goes earlier than this, but people were starting

1191
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:55,440
to figure this out around this time. There was also

1192
01:03:55,519 --> 01:03:59,760
those subliminals, for example, that Aaron and Melissa had had

1193
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,840
discovered over a truth stream some years back, where they

1194
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,400
had noticed the old public service announcements that would come

1195
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,280
on when the TVs would go at night, you know,

1196
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,840
I'm talking about when the channels would go off, they

1197
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,639
would play the national anthem, and they had discovered that

1198
01:04:18,679 --> 01:04:22,719
there were subliminals within the national anthem that was being played,

1199
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:24,960
and the subliminals were very reminiscent of what you see

1200
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:29,119
in the movie. It's stuff like, you know, follow the

1201
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:32,400
state worship, you know God, remember your country, you know,

1202
01:04:32,519 --> 01:04:35,719
just weird stuff like that. So that it made me

1203
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,360
think of that. And it is interesting again that it's

1204
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,559
so innocuous in terms of that he's not really doing

1205
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,719
anything other than sitting in a chair and they say

1206
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:49,480
and make sure to put your hands inside the holsters

1207
01:04:49,559 --> 01:04:51,760
or whatever. He's got to put his hands inside of something,

1208
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,920
and he's not supposed to move. But when you compare

1209
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,800
this to the other images and films that we get,

1210
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,320
like we watched a Total Recall because I just wrote

1211
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,719
the chapter and start calling with three on Total Recall,

1212
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,639
and like that's this just totally invasive, like brain machine

1213
01:05:08,639 --> 01:05:11,440
that you sit in. It's like, you know, Arnold's losing

1214
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:16,000
his mind, going full like Arnold gasm over there. Yeah,

1215
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,360
and then you've got you know, other presentations like you said,

1216
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,639
like the Ludovico method. I don't know, I'm just contrasting

1217
01:05:24,679 --> 01:05:25,079
all of the.

1218
01:05:25,519 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: Or Jacob's Ladder, Like you know, we watched the Ladder

1219
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,239
and it's just the absolute most hellish.

1220
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: Well remember Return to Oz and they put they put

1221
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,960
her on the electro shock table. Yeah, trap her down.

1222
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:44,039
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that that that film kind of has

1223
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:47,360
a almost an Exorcist thing, well sort of, I mean

1224
01:05:47,719 --> 01:05:50,920
in the in the sense of you know the famous

1225
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,880
scene in The Exorcist where they they had to sigh

1226
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,760
up and putting pazuzu, you know, flashing three times throughout

1227
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,519
the film and the kind of uh. But but that

1228
01:05:59,639 --> 01:06:03,880
movie's different because because if you're going to test audiences

1229
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,360
as far as what can drive them to their extreme point,

1230
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:10,360
the movie already begins the movie. The tone of the

1231
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,199
movie is already so horrible, right, So the beginning of

1232
01:06:13,199 --> 01:06:17,519
the movie is already silence and the sound of wind,

1233
01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:20,719
and then you know, juxtaposed with pictures of statues of

1234
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,920
pazuzu and faces looking at you, and then mixed in

1235
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,480
with I think the real subliminal thing in that movie

1236
01:06:27,159 --> 01:06:31,760
is the fact that that the girl in The Exorcist

1237
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:38,599
is mimicking what the her mom's boyfriend says to her downstairs.

1238
01:06:38,679 --> 01:06:41,840
So all of the this, I think there's something to that.

1239
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:46,639
The fact that the sexual creepy stuff that she says

1240
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:51,000
when she's possessed is indicative of the fact that the

1241
01:06:51,079 --> 01:06:53,760
possession and the the a b u s the go

1242
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,360
hand in hand with what made her that way. And

1243
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,920
because you could you can hear, like when she starts

1244
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:03,360
really cursing in the movie and saying the overtly sexual stuff.

1245
01:07:03,719 --> 01:07:05,519
You can hear the guys say it earlier in the

1246
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:08,320
movie when he's downstairs at the party, and it's sort

1247
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,480
of you sort of imply, it implies that she was

1248
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:14,360
left alone with this guy at the house, and so

1249
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,280
she's mimicking. You know. That's that's the sort of a

1250
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,760
subliminal thing in the movie where we can't really why

1251
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,800
why did this happen? Where did this come from? Other

1252
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:23,400
than the fact that the mother also in that movie

1253
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,440
is an actress, right.

1254
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:34,719
Speaker 2: The author explicitly worked for. And then what's interesting, it's

1255
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,280
and a lot of people consider one of the worst

1256
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,679
movies ever if you make it to I think it's

1257
01:07:38,719 --> 01:07:42,280
Part three Extracists two. Now maybe I'm thinking of too,

1258
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,519
the one that has uh Richard Burton in it.

1259
01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's two.

1260
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's considered one of the worst movies ever. But

1261
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:53,639
the beginning of the film, it's this secret government thing

1262
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:58,280
that's studying children like Linda Blair and others who have

1263
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,199
had these issues, and they specifically say autistic children. So

1264
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,960
this is some sort of odd government almost mk ulture

1265
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,639
type of project that's going on. Yeah, And I mean

1266
01:08:09,639 --> 01:08:12,719
it keeps with the theme of you know, the Satanic

1267
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:14,400
and all that. But then in the third one with

1268
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,680
the Gemini Killer, we also have these themes of again

1269
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:22,039
Phoenix program, program to kill type stuff. Uh. And as

1270
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:28,720
you probably know, Dahmer was a odd obsessive fan of

1271
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,640
the Gemini Killer version, yeah, the part three, and he

1272
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,039
would supposedly watch it and just rock back and forth

1273
01:08:36,079 --> 01:08:38,479
watching his PHS tape of three.

1274
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,079
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did an analysis of William Peter Bladdy's book,

1275
01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:51,800
which is called Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane terrifying title and

1276
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:55,960
and there's a movie called The Nine Configuration, Yes, which

1277
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:59,039
has starts Stacy Keach in it, And that's a blatant

1278
01:08:59,079 --> 01:09:02,920
Phoenix Program movie, I mean and again in that the

1279
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,239
protagonist of the movie is playing an unwinning role in

1280
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,439
finding himself in the very position that he does at

1281
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:10,720
the end at the end of the book, at the

1282
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,600
end of the film, where he's he's been hunting himself.

1283
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:17,079
So if people remember, like he's he's brought into this

1284
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:19,520
castle with a bunch of people that have gone you know,

1285
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,520
they've they've Section eight or whatever from the army during Vietnam.

1286
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,560
One of the guys is a is a supposed to

1287
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,479
be an astronaut, and they're put they're trying to put

1288
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:31,239
on a Shakespearean production and they're all actors in this

1289
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:36,039
kind of marat sade avant garde Shakespearean production within a

1290
01:09:36,039 --> 01:09:37,880
castle where they're they end up sort of playing the

1291
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:42,079
fools or playing themselves. And the psychiatrist who's brought in

1292
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:46,079
to to diagnose them is Stacy Keach. And then he

1293
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:49,279
later and in the end of the film spoiler people

1294
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,000
at the end of the film, at the end of

1295
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,279
the book, he's broken in this fight where he's trying

1296
01:09:54,319 --> 01:09:57,359
to defend the astronaut who's being stomped on by this

1297
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:02,000
motorcycle just like Kenneth Anger Scorpio Rising motorcycle gang in

1298
01:10:02,039 --> 01:10:05,199
a in a bar, and he breaks to the extent

1299
01:10:05,239 --> 01:10:08,640
where he realizes he is Kane's he's Killer Kane, the

1300
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,760
guy he's been looking for, and he remembers he has

1301
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,600
a flashback to where he just was right before this,

1302
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:17,039
which was in the jungles at Vietnam, and he's carrying

1303
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:20,800
like heads and he's a He's called Killer Kane because

1304
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:25,079
he like he uses like a piano wire. So he's

1305
01:10:25,119 --> 01:10:28,680
a pure like phoenix program guy. And in the book

1306
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:32,479
it explains or it shows that he did that thing

1307
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,840
in the jungle. He went back, they they X filled

1308
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,800
him out of the jungle. They immediately told him you're

1309
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,560
a psychiatrist, here's your ID, here's your mission. And he

1310
01:10:43,079 --> 01:10:45,359
was programmed right into it, put on the uniform, went

1311
01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:48,640
and then immediately went and did this thing where he's

1312
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,840
now a doctor. It's total dissociation. But again it's just

1313
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,279
like it's just like this, just like this film with Parallax,

1314
01:10:55,279 --> 01:10:57,319
where he he just kind of walks into it. Ninth

1315
01:10:57,319 --> 01:11:00,159
Gate also kind of does that. I mean, uh, you

1316
01:11:00,159 --> 01:11:04,159
know Johnny deppis, Yeah, he's playing like a noir detective

1317
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,279
who's like on a mission to find this book and whatever,

1318
01:11:07,319 --> 01:11:10,760
but ends up being the guy who fulfills the very

1319
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,720
thing in the book at the at the end of it.

1320
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: Do you remember too that this is a totally ridiculous movie,

1321
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:20,359
but in a Universal Soldier where Dolph, Yeah, it's like

1322
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,680
he trips out and flashes back to being the guy

1323
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,039
who like collects the ears. Yeah, yeah, but he's now

1324
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:34,199
he's like a reprogrammed super soldier. Yeah, he's the Universal forever.

1325
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 1: But in that right it is, Yeah, it's a Universal Soldier.

1326
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,319
And his character in that is based on the guy

1327
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,960
what's the name of that that colonel that Colonel Kurtz

1328
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:46,920
is partly based on from Apoculars down the Ears for Beers. Yeah,

1329
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,039
he said ears for Beers. He collected ears on a

1330
01:11:49,119 --> 01:11:52,279
necklace and that that that documentary about that guy is

1331
01:11:52,279 --> 01:11:55,800
funny because he looks not funny, but he looks exactly

1332
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:57,920
like Marlon Brando in the movie.

1333
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 2: I always thought that, like in the Brando portrayal, like

1334
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,359
they give him this very Kroleian sort of image. And

1335
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,439
look like yeah, and one in a couple of scenes

1336
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,680
he actually it actually looks like he's Crowley over there.

1337
01:12:12,199 --> 01:12:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that famous picture of Croley like in the

1338
01:12:15,399 --> 01:12:18,760
black pajamas, basically like doing you know, with this nasty,

1339
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,640
big old bald head. Also, what's his name? The Stalin

1340
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:28,640
Scar's guard character in Dune is is clearly stolen from

1341
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:33,600
you know, purposely stolen from Kurtz. There's a scene, there's

1342
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,840
a scene in what's his name? What's the name of

1343
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,479
the black guy of the black guy, the bad guy Baron. Yes,

1344
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:41,920
so the Baron when they first show him and he

1345
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,000
rises out of the black goo and he's all bald,

1346
01:12:44,239 --> 01:12:46,720
he does this thing where he like rubs his giant

1347
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:51,399
paul over his bald head, and it's just like it's

1348
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,039
just like Kurtz and I think that I did an

1349
01:12:54,079 --> 01:12:57,800
Apocalypse Now analysis and then Heart of Darkness, and the

1350
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:03,159
Apocalypse Now film is obviously supposed to be It's a

1351
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,800
Phoenix Program film. It's it's pure Phoenix Program. I mean,

1352
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:11,560
even Scott Glenn's character Colby is the proto Willard in

1353
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,159
that because when he gets to the place and they

1354
01:13:14,159 --> 01:13:16,960
see all the heads and he says Colby and he's

1355
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,000
like standing there with like a well shot a shotgun.

1356
01:13:20,199 --> 01:13:23,239
Speaker 2: It's meta LSD M Kaldre too because of the Martin

1357
01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:26,680
Sheen story that he's really tripping in that scene when

1358
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,479
he loses it a legend.

1359
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:34,279
Speaker 1: Well, the so Martin Sheen had a heart attack on

1360
01:13:34,319 --> 01:13:36,720
the set. I think he actually did have a heart attack.

1361
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,560
He was too old to play the character. So Martin

1362
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,560
Sheen's Willard was a last minute fill in because Harvey

1363
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,760
Kattell had already shot some of the scenes. He was

1364
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,600
supposed to be the guy, and they thought, let's get

1365
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,800
Harvey Kattell because he was actually a marine. We'll put

1366
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,479
it put him in this thing. But he just didn't

1367
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,960
screen test well or whatever. I mean, he was already

1368
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,159
shooting the film. So then they brought in Martin Sheen.

1369
01:13:56,279 --> 01:13:59,720
And when Martin she did that first scene of you know, hey, buddy,

1370
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,199
you go shut the door, I mean he's like, does

1371
01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:05,479
the the tai chi karate chops the mirror and you

1372
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,479
know it smashed the samebody. He had a heart attack

1373
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:11,359
in that scene. The one who was on LSD was

1374
01:14:11,359 --> 01:14:14,279
was Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper and Lance the Surfer were

1375
01:14:14,319 --> 01:14:18,800
both so whacked out on I think like Amphetamine and

1376
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,840
LSD when they filmed the scene that Dennis Hopper's character

1377
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:27,039
who is pure, like, that's the Jester character from Heart

1378
01:14:27,039 --> 01:14:29,159
of Darkness. He's the same, he's the same character as

1379
01:14:29,159 --> 01:14:31,239
the photojournalist. You can't go out in the space, man,

1380
01:14:31,239 --> 01:14:34,159
you can't go out in the space. And he said that,

1381
01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:37,880
he said that when he got there, that Brando like

1382
01:14:38,039 --> 01:14:40,960
hated him so so when he threw the book at

1383
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:44,680
him in the scene where he's talking about dialectic physics, man,

1384
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,000
you either you know dialectic logic. You either love somebody

1385
01:14:47,039 --> 01:14:49,880
or you hate him, and he throws Brando throws Jesse

1386
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,159
Westons from Ritual to Romance like at his head while

1387
01:14:52,159 --> 01:14:55,880
he's reading TS Eliott, And that was that was like real.

1388
01:14:56,319 --> 01:14:59,920
They just they just kept they just kept rolling the foam.

1389
01:15:00,119 --> 01:15:03,039
So yeah, but it's the same, it's the same sort

1390
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:04,840
of thing. I think Apocalypse Now is kind of the

1391
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,920
sort of like the apex of these types of films

1392
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:14,279
because it's so stylized and so surrealistic, so dreamlike, you know,

1393
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:17,960
and it's the you know, people watch the film and

1394
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,479
say that this guy's insane, but actually he's super sane.

1395
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,079
He's he's like, he's like hyper sane, you know. He says,

1396
01:15:24,119 --> 01:15:29,239
I'm I was above there lying petty morality, whereas something

1397
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:34,359
like like you were mentioning the body body double. There's

1398
01:15:34,359 --> 01:15:36,960
a movie called The Ousterman Weekend with John Hurt, which

1399
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:38,920
is in the same it's like the tail end of

1400
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,399
this nineteen eighty three, and again it deals with spies

1401
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,279
and a guy is he The first scene is like

1402
01:15:45,399 --> 01:15:49,159
he's he's like doing the hunk of chunka with this

1403
01:15:49,279 --> 01:15:52,960
lady and he walks out and then she's assassinated before

1404
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,479
he comes back in it, and they filmed it all.

1405
01:15:55,119 --> 01:16:00,239
So it's a it's a compromise situation. But also that

1406
01:16:00,399 --> 01:16:03,760
the director of these films, Alan jay I guess I

1407
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:05,800
thought it was Pacula. I guess it's Pakola. That's what

1408
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,399
the guy was saying. But anyway, he died under very

1409
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,199
weird circumstances, just like an Omen and a scene in

1410
01:16:12,279 --> 01:16:16,279
Austinman Weekend. He was like driving along in some metal

1411
01:16:17,319 --> 01:16:19,720
like piece of a building, flew off of a building

1412
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:23,680
and like impaled him in his car like a yeah,

1413
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,479
like in the Omen Wow. And at the funeral they

1414
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,119
were like, well, I mean you know this guy couldn't

1415
01:16:29,119 --> 01:16:32,560
have filmed it better, I guess, you know. But but life,

1416
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,399
you know, life and art sort of finding their synthesis

1417
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:38,399
somewhere in the middle of this, but so so in

1418
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,359
the end with parallax view. I mean, I just think

1419
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:45,760
this movie is so crazy. You know, it's it's a

1420
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,479
big film. It's one of these big seventies films, and

1421
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:53,640
it seems like one that would be, you know, right

1422
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:55,960
for a remake. But I don't, I don't know if

1423
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:56,600
they could do that.

1424
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,279
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, Yeah, we just watched a couple

1425
01:16:59,399 --> 01:17:05,880
other seven these films that are pretty wild that they

1426
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,560
couldn't really be remade, and one of them, like we

1427
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:10,520
did Dressed to Kill. We got on a Brian to

1428
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,319
Palmer kick. We've been watching all his because he seems

1429
01:17:13,319 --> 01:17:17,319
a pretty good more consistently than I expected to use

1430
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,960
this whole this whole theme of you know, dissociation, trauma

1431
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,439
based mind control. It's all over Brian to Paula films,

1432
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:27,119
which I should have known, given the fact that he

1433
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:31,119
did Black Dahlia. But uh, we watched Dress to Kill,

1434
01:17:31,159 --> 01:17:35,119
where Michael Kaine is a you know, psycho, uh t

1435
01:17:35,279 --> 01:17:38,880
R a n Z killer uh, spoiler alert, you don't

1436
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,800
know that until the end, but now you do, and

1437
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,760
that that that also has all the same voyeuristic, you know,

1438
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,920
weird obsession stuff that's in all the Brian to Palm movies.

1439
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,399
But another one that's overlooked in the same vein as

1440
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,520
raising Kine where I knew you were going to say

1441
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,840
that Michael H. John Lifke John, you know, a multiple

1442
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:06,000
who has female alters apparently if by the end of

1443
01:18:06,039 --> 01:18:08,920
the film at least, and that allows him to escape.

1444
01:18:09,399 --> 01:18:14,079
And his dad has said to be a mad scientist

1445
01:18:14,159 --> 01:18:18,399
who's experimenting with traumatizing and creating and programming the altars.

1446
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:22,359
So so we know that obviously to Palma has some

1447
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,159
fascination and knowledge of this, and you know to what

1448
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:29,760
degree he's he's uh, you know, consulted with agencies or whatever.

1449
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,600
I don't know, but it's obviously there. But you couldn't

1450
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,319
make dress to kill again because Michael Caine is I mean,

1451
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:38,520
we're in the era now where we're supposed to accept

1452
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:43,079
all of this as normal and holy. And of course

1453
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:48,159
you know, Michael, I got, I got, I've got what's

1454
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:50,680
he got? He's got a like a barber's knife, right,

1455
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,920
He's like, I gotta cut it off. I got Blake,

1456
01:18:54,079 --> 01:18:56,439
I got Blake. Will what's he say?

1457
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 1: Uh?

1458
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 2: In the movie where they call him peenie Waggy, Peenie Waggles,

1459
01:19:02,039 --> 01:19:04,079
I'm trying. I was gonna say that, Michael Caine, Boys

1460
01:19:05,239 --> 01:19:12,760
Wayne Wayne, mister Jingles. Yeah, a wallie wagger, a weddy wagon,

1461
01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:16,520
waeney waggon, weenie wagger, that's what he says, we wager.

1462
01:19:17,119 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 1: Have you seen Have you seen the movie Doctor Giggles.

1463
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 2: A long time ago when it came out, Yeah, I've

1464
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:24,079
seen it.

1465
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,279
Speaker 1: Remind it sort of reminds me of that that that

1466
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:31,279
and that in and dark Man both sort of that's

1467
01:19:31,319 --> 01:19:31,920
the same character.

1468
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,399
Speaker 2: Brian DePalma also does this thing where there's this like

1469
01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:40,399
the there's a flash of light mm hmm all the time.

1470
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:44,239
So when Michael Caine is supposed to be terrorizing the

1471
01:19:44,279 --> 01:19:47,840
prostitute and dressed to kill, she sees the flash of

1472
01:19:48,359 --> 01:19:52,520
light in the glint of the knife. In fem Fetale

1473
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:58,199
with Rebecca Ramine Stamos, she's also a double altar Brian

1474
01:19:58,279 --> 01:20:02,279
de Palmer assassin Thie Woman. There's a flash of light

1475
01:20:02,359 --> 01:20:04,800
at the final sequence in the on the Corner where

1476
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:09,000
all the stuff happens. Anyway, he does this in a

1477
01:20:09,039 --> 01:20:10,880
lot of his films, So I don't know if that's

1478
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,760
like signaling the the you know, altering stepping into another

1479
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:16,159
persona at.

1480
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:19,119
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that happened in a Return to Oz. Remember,

1481
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:21,880
I mean she's lying on that she's getting seen by

1482
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,239
the doctor, and there's the lightning storm outside. There's a

1483
01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:27,359
flash of light, and then she runs away and ends

1484
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,119
up in the river. But but then when we see

1485
01:20:30,279 --> 01:20:33,000
the scene where they're the doctors are looking at her,

1486
01:20:33,079 --> 01:20:35,720
like all of the instruments look like the people the

1487
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,760
characters that she gets. So the TikTok character is the

1488
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:44,399
electroshock machine, and the same thing happens in the same

1489
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:50,199
that same sort of glint thing happens, which in Red Dragon.

1490
01:20:50,199 --> 01:20:52,039
You've seen Red Dragon, Red Dragon.

1491
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like everything turns transfigured basically.

1492
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he and he he there's a great

1493
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,880
scene in Red Dragon where he kidnaps the journalist Philip

1494
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,960
Seymour Hoffman, right, and he like straps him down in

1495
01:21:05,039 --> 01:21:09,000
the in the wheelchair and he says, you are part

1496
01:21:09,039 --> 01:21:12,119
of a great becoming and he's got these tattoos on

1497
01:21:12,119 --> 01:21:14,319
his back when Phillip Seamore. I was like, oh no, no,

1498
01:21:15,039 --> 01:21:18,279
oh no, you know, he's just and Ray finds like

1499
01:21:18,319 --> 01:21:20,479
turns around and he's like he's got the.

1500
01:21:22,159 --> 01:21:25,039
Speaker 2: Eating. Later on he says another something like, you know,

1501
01:21:25,119 --> 01:21:27,920
I'm becoming a deity. It's a poppy type of thing.

1502
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He when he kidnaps Edward Norton's family.

1503
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,560
At the end, he's holding his weapon is a mirror show,

1504
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,159
which is like a triple meta thing here, he's got

1505
01:21:38,279 --> 01:21:42,920
a he kills with a mirror shard and he's holding

1506
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,960
the mirror mirror shard to his face and he says

1507
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:49,119
he's changing, He's part of a great becoming. So the

1508
01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:51,680
mirror shard, it's the same in Manhunter. I suppose the

1509
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,399
mirror shard is the broken mirror. Is this broken mind,

1510
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,880
the broken mind? Yeah, and he's going to transform him

1511
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:01,439
as part of this red dragon Apathios this which is

1512
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:05,760
like a gnostic you know, I guess the gnostic Apathios

1513
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,800
is where he is now the beast. But he does

1514
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:11,119
that through And also he's also in the scene with

1515
01:22:11,159 --> 01:22:15,520
phil seymour Hoffen. He's also showing films, so he's.

1516
01:22:15,359 --> 01:22:17,079
Speaker 2: Strapped down a film company.

1517
01:22:17,119 --> 01:22:19,920
Speaker 1: Remember that's right. Yeah, so so this is off. I

1518
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:23,000
guess this is often the case with these characters. You

1519
01:22:23,039 --> 01:22:25,800
know that the who else worked in a film company?

1520
01:22:27,319 --> 01:22:30,239
Not Dennis Raider. It was one of the other guys

1521
01:22:30,279 --> 01:22:32,079
in Programmed to Kill worked at a film company.

1522
01:22:32,159 --> 01:22:32,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1523
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: And the film is the mirror is the is the

1524
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:39,840
film of your own mind? You're the star of your

1525
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,920
own film? Yes, which kind of is like is like

1526
01:22:43,079 --> 01:22:47,880
the almost every work that I've covered, almost every literary

1527
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,199
work has the house has this structure of the house

1528
01:22:51,319 --> 01:22:54,760
in it. And the best example is like weather in

1529
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,119
Weathering Heights, the book Wathering Heights, which where he finds

1530
01:22:57,159 --> 01:23:01,359
is in the movie version when Catherine, the the ghost appears.

1531
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:05,199
Remember she's this phantasm haunting him that he wants he

1532
01:23:05,319 --> 01:23:07,840
calls her up. He calls her up out of the

1533
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,439
grave to haunt him his psychic mind, and she comes

1534
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:12,119
to the window.

1535
01:23:12,319 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 2: Right.

1536
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:16,199
Speaker 1: So they're always either looking through the window outside or

1537
01:23:16,399 --> 01:23:19,439
from outside in and the house, and the windows in

1538
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,560
the house always function as some sort of looking glass,

1539
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:27,760
some sort of psychic you know. Yeah, Clims, I had.

1540
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:32,520
Speaker 2: An undergrad class on film and literature and we did

1541
01:23:33,079 --> 01:23:37,039
Wuthering Heights, and I remember This was like ten years ago,

1542
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:38,600
but I remember thinking it's something like, wait a minute,

1543
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,600
is Heathcliffe like an altar in her mind? Like doesn't

1544
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,000
it's like a dissociation type of thing or a demon

1545
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:45,920
or what what are we supposed to think?

1546
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:51,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think Heathcliff has a kind of physical

1547
01:23:51,239 --> 01:23:55,279
altar because, for one, he's an orphan, he's a he's

1548
01:23:55,319 --> 01:23:58,479
a a street urchin, and he's adopted into this family.

1549
01:23:59,279 --> 01:24:00,960
And the first time that we meet him, we go

1550
01:24:01,039 --> 01:24:04,800
into the house and he's like a monster ruling over

1551
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,039
the house. But he also wanders on the moors like

1552
01:24:08,199 --> 01:24:09,600
he's a werewolf or something.

1553
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a phantom or something else.

1554
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he and and what happens is he's a

1555
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:19,159
child and he's he is ill treated by his family,

1556
01:24:19,239 --> 01:24:21,920
especially his older brother, And then he disappears for like

1557
01:24:22,039 --> 01:24:24,479
most of the novel, and then he returns, not much

1558
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,159
of the novel, but but he returns as a different character.

1559
01:24:27,279 --> 01:24:30,960
He's now a lord and rich, just like Rochester and

1560
01:24:31,079 --> 01:24:35,199
Jane Eyre. But when he comes back, his whole purpose

1561
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:39,079
is like revenge against the family that gave him that.

1562
01:24:39,279 --> 01:24:43,119
And he's always wandering looking for Catherine, even though he

1563
01:24:43,359 --> 01:24:46,119
drove her. He drove her into this thing. There's a

1564
01:24:46,159 --> 01:24:48,560
great scene in the book and it's in the Ray

1565
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,520
Fines version where he's standing there with Juliette Binoche and

1566
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,039
then you know she's Catherine. They're falling in love, and

1567
01:24:54,199 --> 01:24:57,359
he he like blind. He covers their eyes and he says,

1568
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,760
open your eyes. When you open your eyes, if the

1569
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:04,279
sky is bright, so shall your life be. But if

1570
01:25:04,279 --> 01:25:07,000
you see storms, it'll be it'll be dark. She opens

1571
01:25:07,039 --> 01:25:08,720
her eyes and she says, oh, it's a wonderful day.

1572
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:10,840
And then you hear this poor you know, and and

1573
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,199
she turns around and it's stormy, and she says, oh no,

1574
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,279
oh no. And he he's got like a smirk on

1575
01:25:17,319 --> 01:25:20,800
his face. He's like, yeah, that's gonna be stormy. But yeah,

1576
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,640
he's a kind of a he's almost like some sort

1577
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,960
of gnostic arkhon in the movie because he doesn't seem real.

1578
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:32,279
And also we the reader are looking at him through

1579
01:25:32,359 --> 01:25:34,720
the eyes of the visitor to the house in the

1580
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,359
first place, so there's a distance between us, and and

1581
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:41,199
they're on the moors, so it's not the locust. Isn't

1582
01:25:41,319 --> 01:25:44,199
the typical London setting, you know, with people all around

1583
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:47,000
it's like it's already isolated. It's almost like it's outside

1584
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,399
of time. So that that happens quite, you know, quite

1585
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,560
frequently in in in literature. I mean, it happens in

1586
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,399
King Lear, it happens in in in McBeth, hed sort

1587
01:25:57,399 --> 01:25:58,640
of does the same thing. He has a sort of

1588
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,119
a psychic break. Of course, it's his wife who is

1589
01:26:01,199 --> 01:26:03,359
in the coven, is my sort of what I think

1590
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:06,720
about that, who's in the coven who's driving him towards

1591
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:10,359
you know, I mean, he literally goes to a witch's

1592
01:26:10,399 --> 01:26:12,319
sabbath and drinks a brew.

1593
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1594
01:26:13,119 --> 01:26:15,159
Speaker 1: And the and the odd thing about that is that

1595
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:20,960
all of the Witch movies and all of the verbiage

1596
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,159
that they use, and all the books in films since them,

1597
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:25,840
have come from that. They come from that. And one

1598
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,119
of the reasons people scholars say that the play is

1599
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:34,800
cursed is that he used a real spell in the

1600
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:39,039
in the play, so it's a it's an inverted spell

1601
01:26:39,119 --> 01:26:41,239
in terms of its verse. So when they're putting all

1602
01:26:41,279 --> 01:26:43,159
their things in the cultar and it seems to be real,

1603
01:26:43,239 --> 01:26:46,079
which would make sense because he wrote it for King James,

1604
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:48,920
and King James wrote Demonology in fifteen forty seven. So

1605
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,960
but anyway, but this, this movie doesn't really have that.

1606
01:26:53,079 --> 01:26:57,279
It's it's totally almost straightforward with that, except for you know,

1607
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,279
it's almost like it's the the opposite of that, instead

1608
01:27:00,279 --> 01:27:04,680
of having the cinematic bright flashes and the typical things

1609
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:08,039
that you would see. It's almost so straightforward. I mean,

1610
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:10,880
I just have a hard time, like getting over what

1611
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,039
over Warren Bati's character in this. I mean, he's like

1612
01:27:14,399 --> 01:27:19,520
he played Jay Sebring in Shampoo. He's mixed in with

1613
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,920
Polanski and Jack Nichols. Nothing his life, not in the film,

1614
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,119
but he later is in political films. He's in Bulworth

1615
01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:27,680
and all that kind of stuff or whatever.

1616
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,239
Speaker 2: But and he marries Madonna for a while.

1617
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:38,239
Speaker 1: So weird. That weird, so odd. But anyway, you guys,

1618
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:41,800
that is that is the parallax view in nineteen seventy four.

1619
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:43,680
Anything else you want to say about.

1620
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,279
Speaker 2: That, No, it'd just be cool. We should probably, you

1621
01:27:46,359 --> 01:27:48,000
know that we should do a couple more of these

1622
01:27:49,119 --> 01:27:52,880
sixties seventies. They are a political conspiracy thrillers like this.

1623
01:27:53,079 --> 01:27:57,000
There's you know, the classic conversation with Gene Hackman is

1624
01:27:57,039 --> 01:28:00,319
a great one to analyze. We could do something like

1625
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:04,079
Day of the Jackal, we could do something like there's

1626
01:28:04,119 --> 01:28:08,880
a ton of these. I found several Michael Kaine, Majo Kaine,

1627
01:28:09,039 --> 01:28:13,560
Fan Chavkin from the sixties and seventies that are also

1628
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:17,399
conspiracy intelligence thrillers. I mean, people are probably familiar with

1629
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:22,000
Billion Dollar Brain at Chris File, where he's Harry uh

1630
01:28:22,039 --> 01:28:25,880
what's his face, the sort of the anti James Bond character,

1631
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:27,760
But he's also in a bunch of these others, like

1632
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,800
The Whole Croft Covenant, and he was doing quite a

1633
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,239
few of these British spy thrillers during the sixties and seventies,

1634
01:28:34,279 --> 01:28:35,319
so those could be fun too.

1635
01:28:36,239 --> 01:28:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in a lot a lot of movies. And

1636
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:41,680
actually I was the other The other guy obviously is

1637
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:44,600
Donald Sutherland. I mean Donald Donald Sutherland is I just

1638
01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:48,520
I just caught a replay of the movie Outbreak the

1639
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,439
other day, and I mean, even post twenty twenty rewatching Outbreak,

1640
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:55,439
It's it's just crazy, it's the same. It's just draumatized

1641
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:56,800
version of real life, you know.

1642
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,359
Speaker 2: And you know we watched the Outbreak during the coup.

1643
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:04,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Donald Sutherland is in like all

1644
01:29:04,279 --> 01:29:07,880
of these movies. And I was on T and T

1645
01:29:08,039 --> 01:29:10,760
with Hasher covering Donald Sutherland in a film I can't

1646
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,359
remember which one, but then he died, you know, he

1647
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:15,640
passed away just right after that. Actually, and also I

1648
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:20,159
just did Chinatown. Chinatown was written by what's the guy's name,

1649
01:29:20,239 --> 01:29:25,119
John Uh, I can't remember the guy who wrote Chinatown,

1650
01:29:25,159 --> 01:29:27,600
but he passed away the next day, and he did

1651
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,439
the rewrites for this movie. For a parallax for a

1652
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:35,039
parallax view the conversation, Yeah, the conversation is great when

1653
01:29:35,039 --> 01:29:39,359
I covered that a while back, because it's, uh, it's

1654
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,800
it's NSA, it's NSA before NSA, you know, and it's

1655
01:29:43,399 --> 01:29:47,319
it's so amazing. It's also obviously the prequel to Enemy

1656
01:29:47,319 --> 01:29:50,680
of the State with with Gene Hackman. Gene Hackman is

1657
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:56,479
in another you know you mentioned, you know, straight up. Yeah,

1658
01:29:57,359 --> 01:30:01,000
And and actually the French connection, the basis of the

1659
01:30:01,079 --> 01:30:03,960
French Connection is the basis of what happens in Six

1660
01:30:04,079 --> 01:30:06,880
Days of the Condor. They switched the theme so instead

1661
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:11,119
of oil fields, it's uh, you know, opium traffic. Yeah,

1662
01:30:12,039 --> 01:30:16,319
the uh, the the Tom Clancy what is it called

1663
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:20,520
without is it without remorse? Is also drug based and

1664
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:22,439
then they changed it for the Amazon, which you know,

1665
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:23,359
which kind of ruined it.

1666
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,720
Speaker 2: There's also, you know some of these other there's coma

1667
01:30:28,079 --> 01:30:31,239
the I think that's a Michael Crichton where they're you know,

1668
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:37,199
basically organ trafficking, but also overlaps the mind control Odessa file.

1669
01:30:37,439 --> 01:30:40,800
I wrote down several possibilities here. Day of the Jackal

1670
01:30:42,199 --> 01:30:45,520
fresh connection. I've never seen executive action. You might have

1671
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:46,479
covered that. I don't know.

1672
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:48,560
Speaker 1: No, I haven't covered it, but yeah, I was just

1673
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,840
I was just thinking about it during this because it's

1674
01:30:51,039 --> 01:30:54,439
it totally fits in line with this. Blowout is another one.

1675
01:30:54,960 --> 01:31:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I goofy face. Yeah, Andromeda Strain is really boring.

1676
01:31:03,039 --> 01:31:04,760
I've tried to watch it. We tried watching it in

1677
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:06,479
the cove. I'd seen it before, and I tried to

1678
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:08,720
watching it again and put me to sleep. Oh the Fury.

1679
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:11,600
We did The Fury with the guys over at Slab Cinema,

1680
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,159
which was fun in that Brian to Palma two.

1681
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. And and The Day of the

1682
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:19,079
you know you mentioned The Day of the Jackal. The

1683
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:22,880
book by Forsyth is amazing, and The Day of the

1684
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:25,199
Jackal is a great film, you know that. I just

1685
01:31:25,359 --> 01:31:28,159
before I came on here, I saw an ad for there.

1686
01:31:28,319 --> 01:31:31,560
They remade it with Eddie Redmain. Eddie Redmain was in

1687
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,359
The Good Shepherd, right, and he's it's a remake of

1688
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:36,800
Day of the Jackal, which would would also fit. And

1689
01:31:37,399 --> 01:31:40,279
I mentioned David Jackal when we were on DPH. I

1690
01:31:40,319 --> 01:31:43,920
think I mentioned it because you know, anytime you talk

1691
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:46,720
about assassinations and and and all this stuff, Day of

1692
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:49,119
the Jackal obviously plays into it. And Day the Jackal

1693
01:31:49,279 --> 01:31:54,279
is great because it's like this difference between sixties conspiracy

1694
01:31:54,319 --> 01:31:57,079
films and seventies. You know, you have the early Manchurian candidate,

1695
01:31:57,119 --> 01:31:58,399
and you have Day of the Jackal, and then you

1696
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,199
and oa a sid World War two related events. A

1697
01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:04,000
lot of Michael Kaine movies are World War two related,

1698
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,319
The Eagle is landed and all these things, and then

1699
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:10,239
seventies gets into more what we have with this, which

1700
01:32:10,319 --> 01:32:15,439
is gritty sort of a it's like they took cinema

1701
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:18,279
verite in European film in the sixties the end of

1702
01:32:18,319 --> 01:32:21,239
the sixties, and then they finally caught, you know, kind

1703
01:32:21,279 --> 01:32:23,720
of got a handle on it, and then made that

1704
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:26,800
into the seventies and so they have this weird thing

1705
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:31,079
where they're making Golden Age Hollywood. Films like Chinatown and

1706
01:32:31,159 --> 01:32:35,279
Godfather are clearly throwbacks the Golden Age Hollywood in terms

1707
01:32:35,319 --> 01:32:37,479
of their look, but the in terms of their form.

1708
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:41,119
But the content is wholly of the time and relevant

1709
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:45,800
and revelatory for right now. And I covered I've got

1710
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,279
a book here called Hunting the Jackal, which is about

1711
01:32:48,279 --> 01:32:50,279
the actual Jackal. It's a great it's a great book.

1712
01:32:51,039 --> 01:32:55,920
And there's a series on the Jackal with what's the

1713
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:57,920
name the French the friend of the I can't I

1714
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,800
can't remember his name, the French actor. That's that's pretty amazing.

1715
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:06,520
But the the way that those change in terms of

1716
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,840
the de gall the de gall event is is pretty amazing.

1717
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,199
That's a great film. I mean it's that's that's uh,

1718
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,880
it's almost a complete opposite of the parallax view. So

1719
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,920
so yeah, it would be good to cover some of those.

1720
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,239
I mean, there's there, they keep they keep coming up

1721
01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:23,239
and they're so relevant or.

1722
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have I wouldn't mind doing like a

1723
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:33,159
DiPalma breakdown, you know, yeah, body double raising, kine, dressed

1724
01:33:33,159 --> 01:33:35,479
to kill because it's all the same and kill for

1725
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,399
themes there. Yeah, yeah, something like that.

1726
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:42,520
Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. All right, guys. Hey, anybody got any

1727
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,439
super chats. Let me check the super chats real quick.

1728
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,199
Let's see here, and thanks everybody. Thanks thanks to Jay

1729
01:33:49,279 --> 01:33:53,039
for coming on tonight and discussing this. Let's see we

1730
01:33:53,119 --> 01:33:55,600
got a Shouts out to real John Connor. Let me show,

1731
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:57,359
let me get here. Shouts out to the real John

1732
01:33:57,399 --> 01:34:01,439
Connor who sent ten bucks in and let's see what

1733
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:07,439
you said. Fucking open it. Real John Connor sent ten

1734
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:13,239
bucks and says for ten mcchickens long ago, one point five. Now, yeah,

1735
01:34:13,279 --> 01:34:15,560
you get one point five mcchickens with ten bucks. Thank you,

1736
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:19,199
real John Connor. I appreciate that, yo. Shouts out to Kristin, slowboy,

1737
01:34:19,239 --> 01:34:22,159
whiteboard out there. Crystaline sends five bucks in no comment,

1738
01:34:22,199 --> 01:34:25,800
Thank you so much. Christin, really appreciate you there. Let's see.

1739
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:27,800
Let me look at the actual super chests there. Don't

1740
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:30,319
forget you guys. You can grab a membership. I've been

1741
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:32,840
kind of off here for two weeks, busy with doing

1742
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,560
stuff in my life, but I'll be back doing members streams.

1743
01:34:37,039 --> 01:34:39,880
I'll be coming back with I'm gonna do an analysis

1744
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,880
of Lawrence of Arabia, and I've also got a couple

1745
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:45,680
of sponsored streams coming up. I'm I'm about to do

1746
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:49,760
Beast versus Man, so I'll be covering Kujo the book

1747
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:52,319
by Stephen King and also The Gray the movie with

1748
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,000
Liam Neeson and the Ghost of the Darkness with Val

1749
01:34:55,119 --> 01:34:58,880
killing It. Also another sponsored stream is I Got The

1750
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:03,600
Trial Franz kaf and then Cosmopolis by Don de Leo.

1751
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:07,279
I've covered most of his work now, so we'll have

1752
01:35:07,359 --> 01:35:09,479
that come out. Let's look at some super chats. Here

1753
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,359
shouts out to MAV right there with fifty bucks. He says,

1754
01:35:13,279 --> 01:35:16,039
fucking m LA get off for it, love you and Jay,

1755
01:35:16,199 --> 01:35:18,920
but Bonnicks out, Okay, thank you, mad for that fifty bucks,

1756
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:21,880
Big Tom, thanks man, really appreciate that. Hey shouts out

1757
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,199
to Jason right there. Thanks Jason, homeboy, says Jay, say

1758
01:35:25,239 --> 01:35:27,800
the word abyss please. That's two bucks, Jay, say the

1759
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,680
word abysses. That's this. That's the rich.

1760
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:32,680
Speaker 2: I gotta work with my Michael Kaine to get it better.

1761
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:38,880
That nashta beish they talking about. Yeah, that's the Michael

1762
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:40,760
Caine when he's playing there you go there, you got

1763
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:45,159
James like a butler and that somebody cool gosha bla yahish.

1764
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:51,680
Speaker 1: That's their uh that's their drinking game. Because I say

1765
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:54,439
the word abyss. I guess every every stream talking about

1766
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,159
I don't know, Paradise lost or something shouts out to

1767
01:35:57,239 --> 01:35:59,520
Jason right there, shouts out to Peter A for ninety

1768
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,520
nine says, you guys have to do these streams more often. Thanks, Peter,

1769
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,800
really appreciate you. Thanks for that ten bucks, Hey orthow

1770
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:10,920
Boomer Grandma says no, note, yeah, since ten bucks, great stream.

1771
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:14,239
Thanks guys, Hey, thanks, really appreciate you. OBG. Circle G

1772
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,399
sends ten bucks and says, maybe I missed it, But

1773
01:36:18,079 --> 01:36:20,760
how about Warren Batty's hair? Jay, is that what you

1774
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:29,479
were going for? I guess Warren batties w Warren Badi's hair.

1775
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 2: Eight months ago when I was growing up.

1776
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:39,159
Speaker 1: Maybe what Warren Batty's hair in this is a It

1777
01:36:39,239 --> 01:36:41,920
looks like a wig. It's just a it's a mop pop.

1778
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1779
01:36:44,199 --> 01:36:47,119
Speaker 1: Uh oh oh, we lost we lost him. He's coming

1780
01:36:47,199 --> 01:36:49,640
back in. We should we should still be good. I

1781
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:52,359
think he's gonna come back in if we lost to day. Yeah,

1782
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:56,159
Warren Batty's hair looks like a wig in this movie.

1783
01:36:56,279 --> 01:36:59,399
It also looks like Jim was shout out to Circle

1784
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:01,640
G for that ten bucks, right there. It looks like

1785
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:06,800
Jim Morrison's hair. It's clearly probably supposed to be Jim

1786
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:10,359
Morrison's hair. Of course, he died three years before this,

1787
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:17,439
nineteen seventy one. And let's see, Pim dropped five bucks says,

1788
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:21,760
Reindeer game is a Christmas Rainer game? Rainer game? What's that?

1789
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:24,920
Is that supposed to be a reindeer game? Thank you?

1790
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,279
Pim drops five bucks and says, is a Christmas movie,

1791
01:37:27,359 --> 01:37:30,319
The Rider Game. Thank you, Pim, really appreciate that. Now,

1792
01:37:30,399 --> 01:37:33,319
we were saying that Warren Beatty's mop in this looks

1793
01:37:33,399 --> 01:37:37,039
like a wig, probably that he designed himself in the

1794
01:37:37,119 --> 01:37:40,399
movie Shampoo, where he played Charlie Manson and Jay Sebring.

1795
01:37:41,039 --> 01:37:43,439
But it also clearly looks like he's trying to imitate

1796
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,800
I guess Jim Morrison's hair from three years before this maybe.

1797
01:37:49,279 --> 01:37:51,239
But Warren Baty's got something weird going like every time

1798
01:37:51,279 --> 01:37:54,439
you look at me, he's like he's got like duck

1799
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,079
lips going on in this, And sometimes he looks like

1800
01:37:57,119 --> 01:38:00,560
Warren Baty. Other times he's dressed like a he's dressed

1801
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:03,560
like Jacob's Ladder like amati.

1802
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:08,560
Speaker 2: Hey, dude, thanks for having us a great chat.

1803
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, man, really appreciate Hey. One more, We got

1804
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,760
fifty bucks from MAV. Have you done Spartan yet? That's

1805
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:20,119
Val Kilmer. Thanks, MAV. Really appreciate it. I haven't done that.

1806
01:38:20,319 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 2: Terrence, not Terrence Malick or what's his name? The that's

1807
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:33,000
a really good uh, it's a really good film, Val Kilmer, right,

1808
01:38:33,119 --> 01:38:36,279
but he's he's seeking the president's daughters been kidnapped and

1809
01:38:36,359 --> 01:38:38,640
then there's like this a lot of stage craft going

1810
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:40,520
on in that, but it was written by what's his face?

1811
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:41,239
I just went blank.

1812
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 1: The guy who did Glengarry Glenn Ross. I think, uh,

1813
01:38:45,159 --> 01:38:46,800
the play right, I think.

1814
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:51,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's uh supposedly became a libertarian conservative a

1815
01:38:51,239 --> 01:38:53,600
few years back and I got black ball from Hollywood

1816
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:55,119
because he was listening to Glenn Beck.

1817
01:38:57,039 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just went like on his name the

1818
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:01,640
thank you, mad. I really appreciate that. Fifty bucks. Hey,

1819
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:04,600
thanks everybody. Thanks, Jay, really appreciate you and we hope

1820
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:09,880
to speak to you soon. Man, appreciate you. Good night, y'all, peace, peace, y'all. Thanks,

1821
01:39:10,119 --> 01:39:13,159
see y'all on the see you next time. Hey, listen.

1822
01:39:14,079 --> 01:39:16,399
Was it worth it? Yeah, it's worth it if you're

1823
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:18,880
strong enough that's right. Hey, everybody, If you want to

1824
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,279
support me, you can do that through anytime, through super chats,

1825
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:25,319
and I will be back soon with those streams that

1826
01:39:25,359 --> 01:39:28,640
I just mentioned. Love y'all, Appreciate y'all. That's all I got,

1827
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:30,840
and peace,