1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,839
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pete Canona Show. Thomas,

2
00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:06,639
it feels like we haven't talked in like four or

3
00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:08,199
five weeks or like a month or so.

4
00:00:08,679 --> 00:00:11,839
Speaker 2: Are you doing I'm doing well. Yeah, it's been a minute.

5
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:18,640
Even for me. I realize, I realize my content workflow

6
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,120
isn't what yours are or Jay Burdens or some of

7
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,640
the fellas is like I I I probably, I probably

8
00:00:26,679 --> 00:00:28,600
look it probably makes me look like a special ed

9
00:00:28,679 --> 00:00:35,479
kid or something. In my defense, I you know, even

10
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,960
when my health was better, I I tend to favor

11
00:00:40,359 --> 00:00:45,079
highly conceptual topics and that kind of requires deep dives

12
00:00:45,119 --> 00:00:46,880
like on my end to prepare that kind of stuff.

13
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,840
But you know it, I remain impressed by the fact

14
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,159
that you guys managed to be able to bang out

15
00:00:54,399 --> 00:00:56,600
the content you do with the value you do, and

16
00:00:56,799 --> 00:01:03,600
it's always high quality. But yeah, I'm gonna drop the

17
00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:06,640
st rep on my sub stack. But yeah, since since

18
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,120
I've been back from Arkansas, like I haven't, I haven't

19
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,560
done ship, like I haven't answered people's texts or emails.

20
00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:14,280
This is supposed to be my big week to catch

21
00:01:14,359 --> 00:01:16,239
up on some long form stuff like like none that

22
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,640
I was getting done like, I'm sorry for that. I

23
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:28,120
have not been feeling well but today and I and

24
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:34,280
I and I agree a series, or at least i'd

25
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,000
like to over three episodes, but at least two on

26
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,640
the subject of Earns Noblety, not just his thought and

27
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:47,439
kind of his particular school of revisionism, but what he represents.

28
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,079
You know, he was a student of Heidiger, and he

29
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,480
became very close to the Heidiger family, and that's important.

30
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,400
It's important not just put Heidiger in context. And I

31
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,000
generally agree with people including Leo Strauss interestingly, who I

32
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,760
don't have nice things to say about in terms of

33
00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:14,199
his ethics, but he did have insight into like the

34
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:19,599
Western intellectual tradition. Heidiger was kind of the last continental philosopher,

35
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,520
I think, and Nolty was very much the error to

36
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,759
that tradition. You know, that began with people like meister

37
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:34,439
Eckert and continued with iv Zy Hegel and Chopenhauer and Nietzsche.

38
00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:42,520
And that that alone renders him a significant personage. But

39
00:02:42,599 --> 00:02:47,599
it's also people don't really understand what revisionism is. It's

40
00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:51,159
not just a matter of taking narratives that have been

41
00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:59,800
mythologized by ideologically committed peoples and institutions that have been

42
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,719
able to utilize a bully pulpit, you know, to kind

43
00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:11,080
of force those perspectives on you know, on I kind

44
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,960
of the historical canvas generally. But it's also why these

45
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:25,680
controversies came about, oh to a certain crisis in in uh,

46
00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:31,840
in the Western concept itself. No, I don't just mean ontologically,

47
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,599
you know, in terms of you know, questions people pose

48
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,439
themselves severally and collectively, you know, like who are we?

49
00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:45,199
Like what what what is our culture? You know, like

50
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,360
what do we do we believe in God? I mean,

51
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:53,159
those things are away important, but I mean the the

52
00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:56,080
collision with modernity and made no mistake, it was a

53
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,840
collision of Western man and the catastrophes that ensued from

54
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:11,360
this that can't be overstated. Okay, and Nolty his brand

55
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:16,439
of revisionism is very much grounded in there describing that

56
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:23,240
process and identifying the twentieth century and you know, the

57
00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:26,399
kind of the intellectual paradigms that were emerging in the

58
00:04:26,439 --> 00:04:31,560
twentieth century and the kind of great ideologies that gave

59
00:04:31,639 --> 00:04:38,319
rise to the the Second World War and beyond. Those

60
00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:43,399
are those are derivative of this process. And the reason

61
00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:45,759
why people develop a sort of blindness about this is

62
00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:52,560
twofold in my opinion. Part of it is, obviously there's

63
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,199
a there's a there's a dominant narrative about the Second

64
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,319
World War that the current regime is a very it

65
00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:02,279
has got it's got a very strong interest in sustaining,

66
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,199
not just because it it derives its moral legitimacy from

67
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,360
this narrative, but in in ontological terms, the way the

68
00:05:11,399 --> 00:05:21,040
world is structured morally, politically, in just an absolute conceptual terms,

69
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:28,199
you know, derives from this narrative. But beyond that, there's

70
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:35,639
an inability, particularly in I think Anglophone intellectual traditions, to

71
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,279
really understand condone philosophy, like even when the even when

72
00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:43,279
the variable is being described within that tradition, you know,

73
00:05:43,399 --> 00:05:51,519
touching concern Anglophone cultures as much as they do you know,

74
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,759
Germanic or Francophone ones, there's a there's an inability to

75
00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,079
really sort of approach those things on on the correct terms.

76
00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:03,639
Like even if even if I'm not even talking about

77
00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:07,800
accepting the postulists they're in, I'm saying that there's this

78
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:13,399
there's there's an entirely different conceptual vocabulary for approaching these things.

79
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,120
And it's not just because you know, oh the you know,

80
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,160
the English and the Scots are are pragmatic. That's not

81
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,519
That's not what it is. I mean that that's like

82
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,639
a shorthand for you know, kind of university type to

83
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,519
teach history of philosophy, your history of science courses. That's

84
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,040
we're talking about something both more opigue and more kind

85
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:41,920
of deliberate, deliberately maintained. You know. But really, when Nolding

86
00:06:41,959 --> 00:06:48,399
dots to out revisionism, he's talking about what exactly happened

87
00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:54,800
in the twentieth century, okay, And he's talking about what

88
00:06:54,959 --> 00:07:01,920
exactly national socialism and fascism represented contra capitalism and communism,

89
00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:08,000
you know, and this was not I mean, anybody who's

90
00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:11,439
educating on the subject, you know, knows that national socialism

91
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,920
had nothing to do with nationalism. Whatever that means that

92
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,920
that got the thinking was dead anyway by you know,

93
00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:21,560
by by the turn of the twentieth century. You know,

94
00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:24,319
it wasn't just it, It wasn't it wasn't a matter

95
00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,759
of you know, quote unquote scapegoating people, because that doesn't

96
00:07:26,759 --> 00:07:30,160
make any sense, you know, I mean, even if even

97
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,720
if one accepts kind of court history claims that for

98
00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:39,160
no particular reason this Habsburg, Austria and the format, Hitler

99
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,079
just decided he didn't like Jewish people for for some

100
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,600
social reason. You know, that wouldn't be people would people

101
00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:49,240
wouldn't respond to some some man's like petty like personal biases,

102
00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:51,160
like why would they? That's not that's not the way

103
00:07:51,199 --> 00:08:03,160
things work. Okay, and uh, finally understanding how they kind

104
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:10,480
of dehumanization, the process of dehumanization at scale whereby human lives,

105
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:17,199
the horror of of human lives to the you know,

106
00:08:17,279 --> 00:08:21,560
at at the level of millions, because ceremonies extinguished, like

107
00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:25,000
cease to cease to be impactful, you know, like why

108
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,160
that happened, and why that was inevitable and how there

109
00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:32,440
was a mirror of what preceded it in the case

110
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,480
of the Third Reich, and as the war situation deteriorated,

111
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,679
the onset of the categorical extermination of people who were

112
00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:46,679
identified as standard bearers of the enemy idea. Okay, these

113
00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:48,960
are the concerns that are already has so when we

114
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:54,200
talk about revisionism, we're not but we're not talking about

115
00:08:54,279 --> 00:08:57,159
arguing over like gas chambers whether they existed, and things

116
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,879
like that because you already lost. You've already lost a

117
00:09:00,879 --> 00:09:03,919
proverbial plot if you're doing that, Like, yes, there's a

118
00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:07,919
lot of there's a lot of perjured testimony relating to

119
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,879
the instrumentalities of execution and things. Yes, there's a lot

120
00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:17,279
of hyperbole that stands in for you know, actual documented events,

121
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,519
and that kind of thing should be rebutted. But that's

122
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,039
not what we're talking about, okay, and you're not in

123
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,759
the game of your own notion is basically, you know,

124
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,720
I accept court history, but you know this is wrong

125
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,759
because this many people couldn't have been killed. Like that's

126
00:09:32,799 --> 00:09:38,639
now we're talking about. And if you're counting, if you're

127
00:09:38,639 --> 00:09:43,799
counting casualty lists, or you're or you're aggregating estimates of

128
00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:49,559
counter value attrition as as some sort of like atrocity contest,

129
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,600
you know that, I mean that, that's that's incredibly perverse.

130
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,279
But it's also not you're you're missing the point, you know,

131
00:09:56,279 --> 00:10:00,799
So I know people will be like probably to them,

132
00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:02,960
they're like, well, how's an oldie revision is he doesn't

133
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,720
do what earned his undilted or does and just claim

134
00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:09,320
none of this happened, So it's not a real revisionist.

135
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,799
He was some kind of troll. It was some sort

136
00:10:10,799 --> 00:10:14,240
of pre internet troll. And don't get me wrong, like

137
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,519
I there's a place for that, like Tom Metzker was

138
00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:20,159
was in some ways one of those two. But that's

139
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,120
not that's not real history. And I realized I'm digressing,

140
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,559
But Fred Leuchter is a guy you should look into

141
00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:32,919
if you're concerned with instrumentalities and and kind of a direct,

142
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,000
evidential rebuttal of some of the claims we're talking about.

143
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:44,600
I mean, Laker's got something with a tragic background owing

144
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:49,320
to uh, the fact that kind of like Alex Jones today,

145
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,799
Laker was very much singled out for destruction by the

146
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,200
regime when when his when he when he when he

147
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,759
when he developed a high profile which he did not

148
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,000
cultivate at all. But some that's kind of upset the

149
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,399
scope for we're talking about. Robert Fwerson is another one.

150
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,679
If then I guarantee in the comments section or whatever,

151
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,159
people are gonna say that like I'm not I'm not

152
00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:15,840
giving a fair shake or whatever the to what they did.

153
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,720
The people that considered to be kind of like you know,

154
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,480
the the authors and and writers who constant divisionist Cannon

155
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:32,200
but getting into what are are subject for the day,

156
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,720
A lot is made of of Heidegger's purported affinity for

157
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,159
national socialism, and even people who are something like the

158
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:47,360
Heidiger they seems understand that the claim is, well, Heideger

159
00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:50,480
was attracted to Nazism, you know, because he was a

160
00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:53,399
German patriot, and then when he realized that these were

161
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,440
horrible people, he retreated from that. And or they or

162
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,480
they claim that, you know, he he coveted directorship of

163
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,320
Freiburg University and this is a simply a career decision

164
00:12:07,399 --> 00:12:11,440
or something like. None of that even comes close to

165
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:18,440
the truth of the of the situation. Heideger was concerned, first, last,

166
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:24,559
and always with the crisis of Western civilization. Okay, and

167
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,600
this and his opinion had been under way at least

168
00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:32,240
since the Third Years War, and probably why well before.

169
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:38,080
In terms of the kind of cultural mind. My your

170
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,120
notion is that the function of culture, what culture is?

171
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:52,840
The culture relates directly to the question of being. This

172
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,799
translating exactly what he means by being is difficult. It's

173
00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,240
one part logos, it's one part qualia, it's one part consciousness,

174
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,919
it's one part sentience. But the way to understand and

175
00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:08,080
the kind of short hot.

176
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 1: Shorthand what's quality.

177
00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 2: Quillia is basically with people who study consciousness, if they

178
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,639
define as like that intangible factor that like makes humans human,

179
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,039
it goes to something beyond self awareness, but that it's

180
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,360
like ill defined in in quantitative terms, but it's basically

181
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:29,279
that combination of, you know, the ability to reason abstractly,

182
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,879
self awareness, the and the ability to act intentionally like

183
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,200
they're in that that that makes up like the human

184
00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:42,320
consciousness has distinguished even from the most intelligent animals. Okay,

185
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,080
it's a neuroscience term. I believe that's its original kind

186
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:58,080
of provenance. But you know, in fundamental senses, being is

187
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,919
always kind of this question that that that's that, that's

188
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:06,519
that's that's ever present. Okay, You're thrust into the world,

189
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,279
you know, as a baby, and based the process of

190
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:14,639
your mind developing is the process by which you know,

191
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,360
you come to understand being. You know, and even like

192
00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:22,279
even the most dullwitted human being, there's times at which

193
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,720
you know he's he's metaphorically speaking, startled by the strangeness

194
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,919
of his existence in the world. Okay, that's eye. The

195
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,240
most primitive societies have some notion of God. Okay, even

196
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,679
if it's just some idolatrous mock up of a bull

197
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,080
or something, because you know, we we slaughter the bulls

198
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,639
and from there, you know, we can eat and then

199
00:14:44,679 --> 00:14:52,600
we can survive. So that is God. Okay. So being

200
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:58,639
to Heidegger and to traditionally Aryan Man or Indo European,

201
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:04,000
if you prefer, the kind of neologism was always an

202
00:15:04,039 --> 00:15:12,679
open ended question. You know, it always uh, it always

203
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:18,120
it's it's the vantage point of it is uh always

204
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,519
involves man kind of steering into a conceptual abyss. Okay,

205
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,120
even that's not That doesn't mean it's intrinsically sinister, but

206
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:36,120
it's existentially disturbing because it's unknown. Okay. Now, in Heideger's view,

207
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,960
man comes to live historically because this is how the

208
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,720
question of being is answered, or at least this is

209
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:52,600
the way that it's reconciled with human existence. Moment to

210
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,600
moment man experiences time. You know, time is time basically

211
00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:02,279
governs in both prozacon profound terms like everything man does

212
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,440
in an individual capacity as well as UH in a

213
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,799
in a an in a collective one okay, and moment

214
00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:15,320
to moment man is forced to make decisions, and what

215
00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:22,240
braggets all those decisions is time and thus death. Man's

216
00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:26,240
always confronting his own is just oblivion generally as well

217
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:31,240
as his own death. Okay. Now, what mitigates the terror

218
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:33,960
of that, but what also allows man to kind of

219
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:39,519
conceptualize what being is in both his day to day

220
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:47,639
existence as well as in transcendental terms, is that looking

221
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:55,480
at one's existence backwards from this very moment. Now, there's

222
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,519
an infinite number of aggregate decisions that led to this point, okay,

223
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:05,400
rendered by my forebears, rendered by people who I've literally inherited,

224
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,599
you know, everything from the way I speak to my

225
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,640
folk ways. You know, it's like my biological aspects. There's

226
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,759
this chain of existence literally stretching backwards to the very

227
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:27,039
moment I wish my insistors became human. That is essentially,

228
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:35,039
again an aggregate of endless decisions rendered that constitute decisions

229
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:44,400
within that temporal bracketing and the process by which you know,

230
00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:48,599
questions are posed second to second, moment to moment, hour

231
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,279
to hour, year to year, decade to decade, epoch to epoch,

232
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:57,680
and as we come to understand these things in aggregate

233
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:05,720
and as an aggregate process, a dialectical phenomenon comes into

234
00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:14,720
conceptual view, okay, and that's what it is really to be. Okay.

235
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,440
It doesn't resolve obviously what it is, but it places

236
00:18:21,519 --> 00:18:26,839
it in a context that is at least rational within

237
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,759
and it's bout it temporal terms, and that mitigates the

238
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,079
terror of just you know, living in a in a

239
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,279
world of the absolutely unknown, in which all beings and

240
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,279
objects and phenomenon are are just mysterious and threatening and

241
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:50,839
you know, totally unknowable according to the senses and in

242
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:57,799
the human mind. Now, that's a basically Aristotylian view. Okay.

243
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:00,079
I don't want to go off on a how how

244
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,880
exactly that is, because then we'll be here for weeks,

245
00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:12,759
But that that understanding of of a dialectical process and

246
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,920
the temporal bracketing of that process is basically Aristotelian. Contra

247
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:23,640
was essentially a Platonist view, and ultimately what became the

248
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:30,519
Christian view, which is that being is this kind of presence,

249
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,759
this transcendental presence, okay. And you come to know that

250
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,880
presence through a combination of you know, pious commitment to

251
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:48,200
knowing it and through divide grace, both of which are

252
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:56,119
totally outside of temporal consideration. Okay. Now, it's not for

253
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,279
me to argue in order to in order to hideger

254
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,319
suggest that there's not preestlye type men or or or

255
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,519
literal prophets who can apprehend this and you know, come

256
00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:11,119
to know God in this way that I there's no

257
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,519
reason to believe that that is not possible. Okay, But

258
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:19,279
in the terms and context, we're talking about the way

259
00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:28,960
in which cultures develop around the principles that I described. Specifically,

260
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:36,279
the way the West developed it basically repudiated. It was

261
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:41,359
basically itself frompudiating postulate, you know, like as as the

262
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,559
scientific perspective and as the as scientism as what thing

263
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,160
Smith called it, and as you know, the kind of

264
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,559
conceptual biases of rationalism crowded out all other ways of knowing.

265
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,400
You know, It's like, okay, well we we we came

266
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,839
to understand the world is just you know, being populated

267
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,240
by various beings that we can empirically interpret and identify.

268
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,400
And like within that paradigm, where where is God? You know,

269
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,279
you can't identify God in those terms, not because there's

270
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,839
not you know, indicators of God within the you know,

271
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,319
the the physical world or anything like that. But you're

272
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,200
it's a totally conceptually, it's it's a totally different vocabulary. Okay.

273
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:33,279
So when you remove man from historical time and then

274
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:40,440
you remove him out of these practices that at one

275
00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:47,920
time allowed him, you know, to apprehend being as a

276
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,440
divine presence, you're you're basically throwing him into chaos. Okay.

277
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:02,359
That that creates conditions whereby every decision he's rendering precedes

278
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:10,839
x niolo. Okay. This leads all kinds of pathologies. You know,

279
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,400
it leads to people, you know, it leads to social pathologies,

280
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,359
you know, in banal terms, you know, because social capital

281
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,960
breaks down. It leads to the deterioration of authority because

282
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,559
why why would people conceptualize authority as deriving from anything

283
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:33,519
other than convenience or you know, or power. Power. But

284
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:40,839
most most importantly, what it does is it forces people

285
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:46,000
to organize themselves according to what is noble and what

286
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:55,319
can allow them to recapture temporal boundaries. And that's basically

287
00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,319
that that which is technological. Okay. And this leads to

288
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:07,599
uniquely insidious outcomes, okay, one of which was communism, which,

289
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:15,640
aside from yes within marsis within Marxism, there's absolutely athno

290
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:20,000
sectarian prejudices. They're in like you know, all throughout it,

291
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,599
but in absolute terms like whether the rubber meets the road.

292
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:30,680
As practice, what marcis Lennon isn't dictated was basically that,

293
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:37,759
you know, being is simply labor. You know, it's it's

294
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:41,839
this process of work and of working, you know, by

295
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,319
which man can shield himself from the elements and feed

296
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:51,440
himself and you know, avoid avoid pain as much as

297
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,400
you know, is can be reasonably as much as within

298
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,839
the realm of reasonable expectation, you know, until like a

299
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,359
actually he dies and that's it, you know, and there's

300
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,559
an internal object to that that is pretty remarkably consistent.

301
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,079
I advise people read dust Capital because I made the

302
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:19,640
point of people like Marxism, Marxism is nonsense, but it's

303
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,559
actually very well thought out nonsense. Uh, they're a bundle

304
00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:26,240
of that as well. You know, it's completely self referencing.

305
00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:29,039
But I mean that that's the shortcoming of every of

306
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,839
every modern ideology like capital eye, like theology, you know,

307
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,759
in the proper sense because by by categorically by definition

308
00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:46,720
it's reference points are are beings, are are quantifiable objects

309
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,480
so there's really there. It's it's you're talking about the

310
00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:58,839
complete ebolition of metaphysics. Okay, the kind of the kind

311
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:06,039
of mirror of commun was capitalism. Now there's there's a

312
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,960
problematic term. I know people will say, well, capitalism is

313
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,160
just occur a coin, a term coined you know, by

314
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,960
Marxists themselves, and it appeared to stuff like Comy's manifesto.

315
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,039
That's true, but there is it's shorthand for the technological perspective. Okay.

316
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:32,880
That perspective is basically that material progress is basically potentially

317
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:39,000
infinite you know, the world. It's it's it's kind of

318
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:42,160
a perversion of the anthropic principle. It's that, oh well,

319
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:47,000
you know, man can perceive how to exploit all these

320
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,160
objects in the world around him, and even his own

321
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,519
body to maximum plenty, you know, the maximum pleasure, to

322
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,319
basically infinite wealth. And that's that's basically the key to

323
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:02,720
being Okay is this.

324
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,519
Speaker 1: Where where would where would transhumanism be on that scale?

325
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,319
Speaker 2: It's an extreme manifestation of the latter what I just

326
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,480
described and key to transhumanism. It's so it's intrinsic to it.

327
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,599
So it's not like it's emphasized, I believe because it's

328
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,640
proponents just take it for granted, this idea that oh,

329
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:28,559
well there's you know, as as we advance, we're gonna

330
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,720
resolve all matter. As shortage could go basic people to

331
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:34,119
just kind of like create like matter from nothing. Like

332
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,039
it's it seems like a science fiction concept a little

333
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:42,559
less so as time goes on. You know in movies

334
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:46,440
like that movie, you know, the movie District nine. Have

335
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:49,319
you ever seen it? Yeah, definitely, Okay, Well, you know

336
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,000
how like the alien technology, it's basically this fluid, but uh,

337
00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:57,119
it's like a smart nanotech fluid. So if like you

338
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,559
add it to a human body, it's gonna try and

339
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,759
like reak constitute according to what it knows about biolo

340
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:04,720
what has been problem to a biology. So it turns

341
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:07,480
guind to an alien if you like apply it to

342
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:09,599
like a fuel source or like it's sinuated into a

343
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,079
fuel source, you know, it's going to try and like

344
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,640
purge the impurities, you know, to make it like most

345
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,440
like combustible or whatever. That's I've noticed in transhumanism when

346
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,480
people say like, oh, but what about sustainability or what

347
00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:27,200
about this? Without that, they basically always fall back and like,

348
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,480
well this is just going to be resolved you know,

349
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,480
bye bye, you know, by something by by something that

350
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:37,359
can just sort of like replicate whatever is needed, you know.

351
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,480
And uh, because that's the short that's the shortcoming of

352
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,839
the of the of the technological perspective like rid large

353
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,559
like at some point you like run out of stuff

354
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,960
to be like like kind of like it kind of

355
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,599
oversimplify it, you know, like there's not there's not more

356
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,480
things to exploit. I mean, I mean that's in like

357
00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:01,039
a value neutral term, like just if they materials not there,

358
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,680
like what do you You're You're done? You know.

359
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: Well that's also the whole thing about you know, Star Trek.

360
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,200
You see these machines that just create food, and it's

361
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,200
like yeah, yeah, what what's that machine run on? Yeah,

362
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,839
what happens that's taken away?

363
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: Well it's interesting too, Like I don't want to digress

364
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,480
too much, but it's like that was the the reason

365
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,279
why people went crazy about nuclear power, you know, like

366
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,839
thinking you know, like literal like atomic age stuff like

367
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,880
this is you know, a brave new era of infinite energy,

368
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,119
like you can't like for all radical purposes, like atomic

369
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:36,920
energy is like power from nothing like eventually. Yeah, like

370
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:39,839
if your your your fuel source does burn out. But

371
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,759
that's but but it's it's exponentially it's got an exponentially

372
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:50,799
longer life than any other it's evil fuel source. That's why.

373
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,680
That's where you're gonna see colliding more and more too.

374
00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:56,079
It is that these transhumanist types who think that they

375
00:28:57,599 --> 00:28:59,880
who think that that's like what they're u toldia is.

376
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,880
But at the same time they're like terrified of of

377
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,319
things like nuclear power. It's like you you can't have

378
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,079
it full ways. But no, that's the Yeah, that's why. Yeah,

379
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,000
that's that's in every that's one of the reason why

380
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,680
Dune is smart science fiction every different kind of thing.

381
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:18,880
But you know, like Dune deals in at planetary level

382
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,160
like shortage economies, which eventually everything becomes a shortage economy,

383
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:25,000
you know, over on a long enough timeline, matter how

384
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,319
conservationist you are, you know, it's you know, like the

385
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,839
the ar Conans, the hardcons have become incredibly wealthy, but

386
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,440
the cost was basically like annihilating photosynthetic potential on their planet.

387
00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:37,880
So they're like a dying society. You know, I got

388
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,880
to react as itself. You know, there's there's no water.

389
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,000
So I mean, like everything from the way people greet

390
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,960
one another to you know, the way like the way

391
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,039
military doctrine is organized, you know, is accounts for you know,

392
00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:53,640
the shortage of water. You know, like the entire U

393
00:29:54,279 --> 00:29:59,519
the galagic imperium runs on this narcotic that's also you know,

394
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:02,920
like a light enhancing like geriatric. But that also as

395
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:06,960
you know, the basic this like practical necessity of allowing

396
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:12,039
navigators to to perceive like what pathways could be navigated

397
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,480
through space without you know, losing without like fifty percent

398
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,559
attrition or something for their for their highlighters. But but

399
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:27,920
that's to bring it back, uh, like with Heidiggers, what

400
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:31,160
Heidiger saw in the Third Reich, it wasn't so much

401
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,039
that he's like what It wasn't almost like he thought

402
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:36,759
Hitler himself was a heroic figure, although he may have.

403
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,039
I mean, frankly, I made the point before Germans didn't

404
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:43,000
particularly like the NSDAP. They love to eat off Hitler.

405
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,200
It wasn't so much that he thought the National and

406
00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:53,480
Socialist Program was this incredible revolutionary program. It's that this

407
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:59,680
was the first time in the modern age and almost

408
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,559
at the critical juncture owing to the revolutionary situation underway globally,

409
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:11,720
that there was some kind of political cadre talking about

410
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,160
what we just discussed. You know, Hitler was saying there

411
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:20,119
is a crisis in Western civilization. You know, nobody else

412
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,880
was saying that. You know, whether he was wrong or right,

413
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,559
or good or evil or neither. You know, it wasn't

414
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:35,279
Huey Long Wasn't wasn't saying that, you know, there's a

415
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:37,720
spiritual crisis in the West, and that's why, like our

416
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,079
system is breaking down and we can no longer, we

417
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,519
can no longer sustain you know, like a moral or

418
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,359
social consensus. You know, nobody in the Soviet Union, I

419
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,400
mean the parts they were all dead, was saying, you know, well,

420
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,440
this is this is a confrontation basically with God and transcendence.

421
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,359
You know, nobody on this planet was saying that. I

422
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,759
think the Japanese were. But that's the whole other subject.

423
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:04,480
And that's a fascinating topic as to why, you know,

424
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:11,200
why there was that affinity and Italian fascism had something

425
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,480
of a different source, and uh, we'll get into that

426
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:18,160
as we get into Nulty proper. That was related to

427
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,599
the kind of intellectual nexus that the national socism was,

428
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,200
but it was different. It was far more radical, it

429
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:29,839
was it was far more of It was far more

430
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,759
of of of a of a revolutionary response to conditions

431
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:41,480
immediately press easons. But so basically a Heidiger's understanding was

432
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:46,160
it the form this is going to take and in

433
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:52,359
ideological terms isn't really important. You know, the fact that

434
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:59,440
this is conceptually front and center is what is important.

435
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,640
And if this movement is allowed to be destroyed, there's

436
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,759
gonna be no more Europe, you know. And again not

437
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,759
not because he saw that there was something intrinsically sacred

438
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:18,559
about the National Solist movement or something like there in

439
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,079
Heidiger's mind, like that kind of thing wasn't even possible

440
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:33,480
through political activity. But this was the spark of that awakening, Okay,

441
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:41,000
And that's that's that's what that's what's important. I mean,

442
00:33:41,079 --> 00:33:50,960
that's uh the uh so, no, after Nolty. Nolty was

443
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:54,799
he was a student of Heidegger and he became very

444
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:59,400
close to the family. Uh. He downplayed this and a

445
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,119
lot was a like there was something sinister or something

446
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,000
like I Nulty absolutely was not, you know, like running

447
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:09,079
from some sinister association. I mean, that's preposterous is that

448
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,280
he he didn't want to mind cloud from a man

449
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,960
who was, you know, really like an intellectual giant. And

450
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,960
I think anybody who's serious in their study of chedrophilosophy,

451
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,280
whether they accept all the height of his postulates or not,

452
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:32,239
acknowledges that, you know what really Uh, The book that

453
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,480
first put Nulty on the map was The Fascist Missing

454
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:41,440
Sign on it hook Fascism in its epoch. It was

455
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,840
transmitting to English as Three Faces of Fascism, okay, and

456
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,360
this was probably the first serious treatment of fascism of

457
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:59,599
national socialism from a critical perspective through the lens of

458
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:04,760
you know, continental philosophy and political theory. Something that became

459
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,840
something that had become popular in the fifties was this

460
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,800
idea of totalitarianism and that part of this was just

461
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:21,199
typical kind of code war vernacular extrapolated to the Academy

462
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,599
and passed off as as some sort of meaningful analysis

463
00:35:26,679 --> 00:35:30,079
in lieu of you know, just kind of cheap polemic,

464
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:34,239
which in my opinion it was cheap polemic. But this

465
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,880
there's this idea, there's just kind of like pop sociological

466
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,119
under like understanding in the Academy that oh, well, What

467
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,559
really distinguishes, what really distinguishes modern states one another, is

468
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:50,239
that places like the Third Roike and the Soviet Union

469
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,119
were totalitarian, you know, presumably in America and in the UK.

470
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:57,400
You know, we value personal liberty and things, and so

471
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:00,159
we don't have to suffer the total state because our

472
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:03,480
people wouldn't tolerated. That's fucking stupid for all kinds of reasons.

473
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,320
And it also obviously doesn't account for the fact that

474
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:11,280
these these these states that supposedly share like a common

475
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:17,079
like a common value system, these totalitarian states like waged

476
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,440
these like utterly devastating like Ross and Creek conflicts against

477
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,639
one another. But you know, novelty basically is objective. Was

478
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,960
the kind of like robut that coition is as well

479
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:36,480
as you as well as a tackle some of them

480
00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:40,159
more serious critiques and treatments of the third Right. But

481
00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:46,840
that nevertheless kind of like missed the mark. Basically, what

482
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,239
he laid down is that the action France, say, which

483
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,920
who's kind of got leading intellectual was Charles and Morass.

484
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,960
He said, look, you know France, which had uh, France

485
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:06,119
was kind of the comperial canary in the coal mine

486
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,840
as regards revolutionary processes, obviously, you know it was uh,

487
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,519
it was at the turn of the nineteenth century. You

488
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:20,920
know that France was utterly devastated by a revolutionary historical impulse.

489
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:28,199
So he said that Noldy suggested that a kind of

490
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,599
a kind of deep seated reactionary tendency developed in France, okay,

491
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,159
and then which endures. So the opposition in France is

492
00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:43,840
always going to be like radically conservative, okay, and people

493
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:51,400
like the Maestra, you know, the counter Enlightenment philosophers. There

494
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,920
was very much like a Francophone like stamp on this, okay.

495
00:37:56,639 --> 00:38:00,880
So he says that emerging in the twentieth century kind

496
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,039
of like the first truly like modern like like in

497
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:06,880
twentieth century terms, like reactionary movement was like the action

498
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:12,480
frant state, okay. He said, the response to that reaction

499
00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:20,400
where the Italian fascists okay, who were it was basically

500
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:27,639
a radical probletarian movement, you know that it was a

501
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,119
it was a form of both resistance too and reaction

502
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:34,639
against modernity, but it also embraced like certain aspects of

503
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:40,639
hyper modernity, you know, which seemed which seemed incoherent. The

504
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:47,280
people who don't really understand was underway, but there was

505
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,360
a I think that one of the reason that ampathized

506
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,480
George Sorel so much is because thinkers like him are

507
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:58,159
kind of the tie that binds what seems like opposing tendencies.

508
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:07,480
But and most significant Noldies suggested national socialism was a

509
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:11,360
synthesis of these two tendencies, you know, which themselves were

510
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,639
a reaction against, you know, the tendency towards Bolshevism as

511
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,719
the new kind of as the new uh iteration of

512
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:26,280
of you know what had was first emergent with the

513
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,760
Jacobin Revolution. You know, Thus, national socialism it's both it's

514
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:38,159
both radical in reactionary, it's both revolutionary and conservative. You know.

515
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,239
His point was, uh, this is this was actually a

516
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:51,400
very coherent, very cohesive, remarkably integral ideological program, and that's

517
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,360
one of the reasons people responded to it like they did.

518
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,760
Like this idea was just some I mean, politicians are

519
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,360
constantly trying to conventional politicians, they're constantly promising all these

520
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,920
old people, they're constantly preaching, especially in those days, some

521
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:08,000
kind of reconciliation between the classes, and they're getting absolutely nowhere,

522
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,639
you know whatsoever. But you're supposed to believe the National

523
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,000
Socialists they could just somehow like remedy these things like

524
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:19,639
good propaganda, even though there was no coherence to it,

525
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,960
I guess ridiculous, you know, like one of the reasons

526
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:29,280
why they were able to capture the mand that they

527
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:35,280
were was because they were uniquely astride the dialectical process

528
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,360
as it was either resolving or coming to pieces. Everyone

529
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,159
perceives it, you know, as of you know, like nineteen

530
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:54,440
twenty nine, nineteen thirty altoming the point that even people

531
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,119
who are partisans and standard bearers of the spirit of

532
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:01,119
the age in which they live, and even men are

533
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:07,320
willing to literally kill or die for their ideological commitments,

534
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,199
they may not even be fully aware of of what

535
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:14,559
of what of what phenomenon they are serving, or what

536
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,119
or what they're participating in and what's underway. And in

537
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:26,159
apocal terms, know, the's opinion was basically that, look, philosophy

538
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:32,280
lives on in political terms. You know, whatever you can

539
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,519
say about you know, philosophy is having been you know,

540
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,280
divorced from what's becomes scientific practice. Whatever you can say

541
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:48,280
about you know, anything related to him to uh, the

542
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:55,199
conventional sociology he politics, if anything, UH has become like

543
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:02,199
more remote from UH, the common man's ability to two

544
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,679
to apprehend it, you know, the meta political dimension of

545
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:15,559
politics as he was observing it. You know, in the

546
00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:20,079
the early Cold War. Nolty's opinion was one of the

547
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:22,519
reasons these particularly dangerous times is not just because the

548
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:28,800
state of technics and obviously you know, like the the

549
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:32,000
development of the bomb and things like this, but you've

550
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,840
got people who absolutely have no no ability to perceive

551
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,519
what's under way, and and they're they're they're at the

552
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:46,599
helm of of of of great power states and they've

553
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:50,840
they've they're either conflating you know, rhetoric with reality or

554
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,000
they perceive the fact that they've been able to capture

555
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,599
you know, they've been able to they've been able to

556
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:01,559
rise the the front office or the or there the

557
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,719
or the the titular head of a state organ that

558
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,679
that at least can you know, manufacturing and sent to

559
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,000
the degree that you know they're they're they're not gonna

560
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,960
be removed by by force. You know, they take that

561
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:20,199
as some sort of like providential indicator that you know,

562
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:25,639
they're they're somehow fit to render decisions when they absolutely

563
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:32,920
are not. And this is important. The UH and this

564
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:36,280
was in fact, uh, this was in fact an aspect

565
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,760
to that I believe Heidegger I felt was present in

566
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,360
in fascism that uh mind you, there was plenty of

567
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,960
National gall Lighters who weren't particularly intelligent. Even those who

568
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,800
were didn't view themselves as as some kind of like

569
00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:56,679
as some kind of like high priesthood and the political

570
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,480
or something. But these guys did view themselves is almost

571
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:08,519
an exception as initiates in two historical processes. You know

572
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,920
that they came to perceive either through their baptism by

573
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,239
fire at the front as young men, or you know,

574
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,639
by some sort of epiphany that a lot of people

575
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,599
suggested that they had, you know, in the company of Hitler.

576
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:33,000
I mean, whether you accept that or not, there was

577
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:40,480
an understanding among among National socialists, among fascists. Stuff like

578
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:43,440
the Iron Guard hasn't been different. I looked back at

579
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,119
the stuff as like adjacent, but not really the same phenomenon.

580
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:51,800
It was far more kind of conventionally theological and related

581
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,760
to to what we think of is a crusader impulse,

582
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,800
like literally, but just the very fact that these men

583
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,079
looked at themselves in the terms that I described it

584
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:06,800
says that they were conceptualizing politics in a way that

585
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:14,480
their enemies were not. Okay, like the cope of of

586
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:17,760
anti fascists. Well, that's because they were crazy, Okay, But

587
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,679
that's not that's that's not that's a non answer, that's

588
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:30,320
a non perspective. The way these people, like the true

589
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:40,599
national Socialist partisans, in these estimation they viewed the process

590
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,840
that we talked about a moment ago at the outset

591
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,760
of not just you know, the removal of man from

592
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,400
history by the and by and the removal of man

593
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:58,199
from historical time by the combination of the technological perspective

594
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:03,280
and the deterretoryation of you know, the ability to approach

595
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:14,199
God and uh, either pious or or conceptual terms. Nulty

596
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:20,320
believed that this would never like man would never recover, Okay,

597
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,440
if the kind of practical transcendence what he called it,

598
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,119
of the Soviet Union in the United States, of Sovietism

599
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:34,760
and Americanism reached full realization. What do you mean by

600
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:43,559
practical transcendence? Okay, When man is able to master things

601
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:48,800
that once were believed only to be the domain of God,

602
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,320
that's when that's when God is truly dead in the

603
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,159
in in in the collective like cultural mind Okay, like

604
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:02,840
whether you're talking about, you know, the conquest of space,

605
00:47:03,679 --> 00:47:05,920
when you're talking about the humors of like a culture

606
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,840
that claims like we can turn like a male into

607
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,719
a female and vice versa, like or you're talking about

608
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,400
people who claim like, you know, we can, we can

609
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,559
we can create humans like outside of a woman's womb,

610
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,800
you know, just by the manipulation of the game meets

611
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:26,480
and things. Yes, okay, that kind of thing is born

612
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:29,239
of a humorous which is not remotely godly. But we're

613
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,679
talking about we're talking about cultural mindset, and you know,

614
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,239
we're talking about the way these things are, The way

615
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,840
these things are are are devised according to you know,

616
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:49,960
man generally, man's ability to perceive generally, And again, where

617
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,239
are we talking about conditions whereby man's ability to know

618
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,960
God has been reparably compromised. Okay, this is a basic

619
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:03,159
vulnerability here, you know, the uh, the irony being of

620
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,960
course that as this kind of practical transcendence is accomplished,

621
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,199
you know, the absence of culture and the ripping out

622
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:18,000
a man from these tem pro boundaries that facilitate culture,

623
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,920
that makes it more brutish, like more ignorant, like more impoverished.

624
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,280
You know, it breeds literal backwardness because people no longer

625
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,039
understand you know, race and class anymore. You know, people

626
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,199
no longer pursue meaningful education. You know, at best, you know,

627
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,000
like an educated man's a technician, you know, like it

628
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:42,440
becomes it. Uh, the like like the fruit of this

629
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,440
transcendence and this ability to create you know, god like

630
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:53,519
technics and presumably generate wealth out of nothing is uh,

631
00:48:53,960 --> 00:49:01,639
ironically a kind of like a kind of total degradation

632
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,119
of the human being you know, at scale, and the

633
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,159
absolutely like annihilation of culture. With a few generations of

634
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:17,119
this presumably the result is what Hitler said about the

635
00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:21,920
destruction of man's ability to bear culture is as being

636
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,239
the end result of an intention of a bolshevized planet,

637
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:29,119
whereby people won't really be people anymore, Like regardless of

638
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:32,599
the mentioned material in question, they'll have no memory of culture.

639
00:49:32,679 --> 00:49:34,960
They'll be they'll be unable to bear it even if

640
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,039
they did. You know, you'll you'll people basically who live

641
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:40,440
on the level of the animals, just they all of

642
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,360
an ability to you know, speak and you know, think

643
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,360
abstractly in so far as you know, being able to

644
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:48,960
kind of cond ofent the next day, whether they want

645
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,000
to fill their belly with or satisfy whatever glandiar impulse

646
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:56,119
by accomplishing. But you know they the only thing that

647
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:01,519
really makes makes man man is culture. There not there's

648
00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:05,440
not there's that's an anatomical thing or what have you,

649
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:10,360
or or some special structure in his brain that that

650
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:14,840
that makes this impossible, you know. And this is a

651
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:20,039
this is what was a fundamental concern to Nouldy, and

652
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,280
this is I believe why he began writing when he did,

653
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:32,920
as as the Cold War being heating up. Yeah, I

654
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:35,440
want to want to wrap this up in a minute.

655
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,440
I'm not feeling great. And also I I realized this

656
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:42,639
is like a long introduction man, but I think it's

657
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:46,400
important because, like I, assuming you're okay with this, this

658
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,079
is your show. Next episode, I want to get into

659
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,719
the historians debate or the historical striketh as it was

660
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,440
called the historians controversy. There's not putting aalty on the map,

661
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:02,960
kind of on the academic map. I mean people who

662
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,800
people in who had an interest in in kind of

663
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,880
philosophy and in serious scholarship of the third Reich New Obem.

664
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,400
But it was not late nineteen eighties kind of as

665
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:22,400
as philosophical would poplicarly philosophical discussion of the Third Reich

666
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,159
and the Soviet Union, you know, kind of as the

667
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,760
Cold War was winding down, this kind of thing was

668
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:35,079
at its most intense interestingly. But next episode will get

669
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:39,599
into like how that was emergent and how exactly Nolty

670
00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:43,199
became affiliated or identified not affiliated, you know, with like

671
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,719
Holocaust revisionism, which, like I said, there's nothing all wrong

672
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,960
with Holocaus's revisionism, but Nolty is adjacent but a different

673
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:53,800
represents a different tendency, and we'll get into what I

674
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,079
mean by that. I hope that this was not too

675
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:59,480
scatter shout, I didn't bore people. Also, I'm not feeling great,

676
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:04,000
so forgiving man. If like my ideas, we're not terribly fluid,

677
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:08,079
No no problem at all. Do some plugs and we'll

678
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:12,559
end it. Yeah, man, you can always find me at

679
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:16,119
the substick. It's real Thomas seven seven seven at substick

680
00:52:16,119 --> 00:52:18,639
dot com. We gotta chat there too. In addition to

681
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,519
like my In addition to my podcasts and like videos

682
00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:26,880
and other cool stuff, you can always find me on Twitter,

683
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,360
at least at the time being uh, they like monetize

684
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,880
me Eastie. They're getting nukre but you never fucking know.

685
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:41,079
It's uh at Capital R E A L underscore number

686
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:44,320
seven h O A S seven seven seven. You always

687
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,599
find me on my website. It's real Thomas seven seven

688
00:52:47,639 --> 00:52:52,400
seven dot com, Real Aria, or it's just Tomas seven

689
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,760
seven dot com. Sorry, as you can tell them with fevers,

690
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,239
it's just number seven hm A S seven seven seven

691
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,320
dot com. I'm on Telegram. I'll probably get more active

692
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,480
as I have less time on social media to fuck around.

693
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,000
You can find me on YouTube. It's Thomas TV. Do

694
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:11,960
a search of Thomas seven and seven on YouTube and

695
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:16,800
you will find me. Yeah man, that's what I got, all.

696
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: Right, Thank you. Until the next episode, Thanks Thomas.

697
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:20,199
Speaker 2: Yeah man.

698
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pea Canana Show.

699
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:30,039
Thomas is here and we're gonna jump into part two

700
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,159
of a dive into Earnst Snalty.

701
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,559
Speaker 2: Hey don, Thomas, we're doing well. The context to what

702
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:45,239
became known as the historical strike Beyond the obvious that

703
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,280
needs to be addressed the kind of first proverbial shots

704
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:59,679
fired across the bow, specifically relating to revisionous treatment to

705
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:06,400
the whole costs and historical historiographical terms. That conversation was started,

706
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:12,239
at least between public intellectuals, and in the Buddhist Republic

707
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:15,920
there was an active community of public intellectuals, not just

708
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:23,199
because of the peculiar and rather tragic conditions that characterize

709
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:29,039
that state, you know, sociologically and politically, but the Cold

710
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:32,960
War meant that these people had to say in policy

711
00:54:33,039 --> 00:54:36,199
discussions that they wouldn't otherwise. I mean that was in

712
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:41,519
any in any combatant state to the Cold War, and

713
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,480
when one considers the ongoing status of mobilization and everything else,

714
00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:52,800
I don't think it's hyperblele to refer to NATO and

715
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,800
the warsaw packed ops has combat in the States and

716
00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:01,280
every country thus situated, you had a coterie of of

717
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,519
intellectuals who were not just permitted to speak on policy matters,

718
00:55:05,559 --> 00:55:09,440
but we're expected to do so. But in Germany this

719
00:55:09,559 --> 00:55:18,159
was particularly this was particularly visible at tendency, an act

720
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:24,199
of a kind of at discourse. What kicked off the

721
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:29,280
historical strike was, I mean, the immedia catalyst was Reagan's

722
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,360
Bittberg speech. For people who are too young to know

723
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:38,960
or don't remember, the D Day anniversary, the fortyth anniversary.

724
00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:44,480
In eighty four, Reagan was Reagan was in Europe anyway

725
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:52,480
for NATO related summit type at diplomatic activities. He spoke

726
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:54,679
at Bittberg, and he went out of his way to

727
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,599
say that the Waffen SS and Rmacht ward had buried

728
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:01,880
there victims of the war just as much as the

729
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,159
Allied word and they should be respected. It's basically parodying

730
00:56:05,199 --> 00:56:07,639
what Conrad ad Nower said and now are much as

731
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,880
people on the right dislike him. I don't have many

732
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,800
nice things to say about ad Hour, but he's a

733
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:17,400
complicated figure. And ad Nower said he and now insisted

734
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,360
that Wehrmacht veterans gont get full pension rights. The BOB

735
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,800
and SS was not so fortunate. But that's that's why

736
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:30,920
they established their own, you know, networks to facilitated that

737
00:56:31,079 --> 00:56:34,639
kind of thing. But this sparked this kind of whole.

738
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,199
I mean, obviously the Reds, like the actual Reds were

739
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:43,320
still like very powerful then that their their narrative was well,

740
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,360
you see that this just proves that, you know that

741
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,320
NATO was just a fascist that like a reconstituted fascistic

742
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,800
block that is trying to trying to halt the advance

743
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,280
of history, you know, by by by military arm from

744
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,840
the threat of nuclear war, and of course they find

745
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,320
common cause with these dead fascists. You know, these guys

746
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:09,639
are the sort of military social democrats. They basically parroted that,

747
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:14,719
but for a lot more dishonest and dishonorable reasons, you know.

748
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:19,079
They Reagan was kind of Donald Trump before there wasn't Trump,

749
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,960
you know, I mean his he was a lot more

750
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:26,199
of a significant figure in terms of power, political phenomenon things.

751
00:57:26,239 --> 00:57:29,280
Obviously this was the world situation, but you know, the

752
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,119
narrative people, Reagan was a man that people love to hate,

753
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:35,559
you know, for the kind of permanently aggrieved opposition you know,

754
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:42,280
in America and as well as in the EU. There's

755
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,599
a broader context of bitt Berg though that relates the

756
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:46,960
helmet Cole. And like we talked about Cole a lot

757
00:57:47,079 --> 00:57:52,760
in these series that we do, Cole was about the

758
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:59,760
only like truly kind of nationalistic minded uh consler post

759
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,079
war were, you know, and that like his his final

760
00:58:03,239 --> 00:58:07,920
act in that role, like we talked about, was the

761
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:10,920
unconditional recognition of the infinited state of Croatia, which, like

762
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,159
Monkey runched a lot of the designs of Bush and

763
00:58:15,239 --> 00:58:20,360
Baker and what they hoped to accomplish in Europe after

764
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,239
the Cold War. You know, but it wasn't just it

765
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,960
wasn't just placating coal like people have to understand that

766
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:33,480
there was this bizarre situation after Deyton fell apart and

767
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,559
and and Deyton was dead was was was dead? Is

768
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,719
as Dillinger really even before Reagan took the oath of office. Okay,

769
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,760
and a few things owed to that, which you are

770
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,559
kind of outside the scope of our media discussion here,

771
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:53,000
but such said it was the Cold War was back

772
00:58:53,079 --> 00:58:57,880
on in earnest. The Buddhist Republic had a military draft.

773
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,719
They weren't just expect did to participate in the defense

774
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,199
of Europe from warsaw pacts. They were they were the

775
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,519
main line of resistance. Okay, So we were drafting these guys,

776
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:14,039
you know, directly out of high school. We were putting

777
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:15,800
them on what was to be the front line of

778
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:23,320
World War three. In nuclear command and control terms, the

779
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:30,679
NATO Charter demanded and what operations Protocol was was that

780
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:37,519
American nuclear weapons based in the Boonies Republic warheads would

781
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:44,639
always be in the possession of of American forces, but

782
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,159
their launch vehicles would be under control of the bundess Republic,

783
00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:51,519
and in order to be married to those vehicles there

784
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:55,719
had to be an agreement on a legitimate launch order.

785
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,880
So basically we were relying on these people who essentially

786
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:04,280
commit suicide to stop the Soviet Union when the Warsaw

787
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:10,000
Pack ancelaught came. Now, if you're gonna do that, While

788
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:13,480
at the same time saying Germany is basically a constitutionally

789
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:18,320
evil country like race of people, and German militarism is

790
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,199
the source of all all woes in the world. There's

791
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,280
there's a there's a cognitive dissonance there that can't be

792
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,840
sustained in policy terms, and that's been going more and

793
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:38,800
more clear, you know. And for context, the main the

794
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,239
mainline of resistance. If Warsaw Packed had in fact assaulted,

795
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,079
obviously the Battle of Berlin would have been a mailstrom.

796
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,800
The Buddhist fair had to defend. They're respected to defend Berlin.

797
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,079
They're respected to reinforce the Benelux and the British and

798
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:58,320
the North German plane, and they're expected to defend the

799
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,199
folded gap at all calls to the last man with

800
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:08,239
nuclear weapons if necessary, and to reinforce and reconstitute forces

801
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,880
there it basically until they could no longer do so.

802
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:16,199
So they're talking about a million dead Germans within a

803
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:24,360
few days. Okay, And again you can't if that's if

804
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:29,239
that's standing policy and you're public about that policy, because

805
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,880
that's the only way that you can maintain credibility contra

806
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,760
Op four. You've got to be willing to back it

807
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,119
up politically, and if you're Ronald Rigg, and that means

808
01:01:41,159 --> 01:01:43,639
you can't go to Bittberg and say that these men

809
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,199
buried here who died resisting communism, I might add, you know,

810
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,079
are the scum of the earth, and they're evil and

811
01:01:50,119 --> 01:01:52,039
we must never let them rise again. I mean, this

812
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:56,679
should be obvious to anybody. But you know, one of

813
01:01:56,719 --> 01:02:02,119
the perverse ATHLETs of the Cold War, I think, was

814
01:02:02,239 --> 01:02:05,960
that there was a there was an aspect of the

815
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:10,519
laft who are truly like Warsaw Pact sympathizers. I mean, obviously,

816
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,000
I mean though that that that element was always far

817
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:18,880
stronger and more organically constituted in Europe than it was

818
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,480
in America. But there was some of that in America

819
01:02:21,639 --> 01:02:24,679
even after the sixty eight kind of schism. But like

820
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:26,280
a lot of these people were just the I mean

821
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,719
they were just they were just disengaged morons, like they

822
01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:34,199
had no like It's like it didn't compute that right there.

823
01:02:34,239 --> 01:02:37,440
Wrong with America was in the Cold War. It couldn't

824
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:42,320
just be stopped, you know. And I mean unless unless

825
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:48,280
America is gonna call it off or seed you know, uh,

826
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:51,719
the inner German border to the communists. I mean this

827
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:57,760
the uh, not just the the mainline resistance in the

828
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:04,280
share punk of NATO's military capability, but also the political

829
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:11,519
will to resist Warsaw Pact in political terms, you know,

830
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:17,960
came down to Germany's continued willingness to contribute, you know.

831
01:03:18,199 --> 01:03:21,519
So this is kind of what opened the door to

832
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,039
what became known as you know, the historic or strife.

833
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:29,679
And I mean the point in the first episode. The

834
01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:32,000
reason why A Deep Dive so much in an Eli's background,

835
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:34,360
It's not just because I've got my own interests in

836
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:41,960
political theory and philosophical things. It's because the reason why

837
01:03:42,039 --> 01:03:45,639
Nolty's blunked in with you know, all revision is so

838
01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:50,159
they're talking about people like Fred Leikter or Ernes Zundel

839
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,960
or David Irving. Like basically ever just limped into the

840
01:03:54,039 --> 01:04:02,639
revisionists camp if they reject this claim at the German

841
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:10,119
people are the atavistic population that is prone to homicidal

842
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,679
racial hatred scale, that the Third Reich was the spontaneous,

843
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:23,440
unprovoked criminal conspiracy to carry out those aforementioned tendencies against

844
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:27,920
escapegoaded population again for no particular reason other than hostility,

845
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:35,440
like ambiguous hostility. And also that the reason why the

846
01:04:35,519 --> 01:04:44,519
twentieth century was characterized by these deep crises that culminated

847
01:04:44,599 --> 01:04:49,559
in you know, to global conflagrations and then a half

848
01:04:49,639 --> 01:04:55,639
century of nuclear brinksmanship is because of some sort of

849
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:02,920
sunder vague within Germany cultural trajectory that makes them prone

850
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,000
to militarism. Like none of that makes any sense, okay,

851
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:09,639
I mean it should be clear to anybody who's at

852
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:13,360
all sophisticated on political or military matters. This is not

853
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,719
how This is not how populations behave at scale and politically,

854
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:24,679
that's just not how things work. And Multi's starting point

855
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:29,840
was basically like long before eighty forty five eighty six,

856
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:38,079
when the historic of strife really jumped off in earnest

857
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:43,079
like Noulti made that point in his earlier books. He said,

858
01:05:44,599 --> 01:05:48,519
if you're gonna claim that national socialism was just this

859
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:53,920
sort of was just sort of like the private prejudices

860
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:59,480
of Adolf Hitlers policy. He's like well pretty much every

861
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:04,840
German executive, whether they're talking about you know, Carl Luger,

862
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,800
the mayor of hal for post Hafs for Vienna, whether

863
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:12,119
you're talking about Bismarck or you're talking about Heindenburg. Like,

864
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:13,880
none of these people could have been said to have

865
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,920
like have like liked Jews or like not dislike Jews. Categorically,

866
01:06:18,679 --> 01:06:21,840
the idea there's some weird thing in policy terms that

867
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,280
people hadn't heard before but all deeply felt that doesn't

868
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:30,519
make any sense. And secondly, again that's just not because

869
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:35,880
racism isn't isn't that's not, that's not that's not an explanation,

870
01:06:37,239 --> 01:06:39,360
and that's just that's just not how politics are conducted.

871
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,599
And finally, as I've said before, some of this is

872
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:50,880
deliberately misconstrued. It it's because people are remote enough from

873
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,800
the epoch they don't really understand this. The Germans weren't

874
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,559
obsessed with race in a way that other people weren't.

875
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:02,480
Germans talking about Jews, is this race that's different than them.

876
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,119
That's the way everybody thought, like, not necessarily about Jews,

877
01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:08,760
but that's the way they thought about human behavior. You know,

878
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,400
human behavior is biological, if you want to understand you know,

879
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,440
political behavior, it's racial. You know, what makes it possible

880
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,519
where people live among each other is this kind of

881
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:24,760
like blood compatibility. You know. So, oh, obviously there's tension

882
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,800
between Germans and Jews, or between Poles and Jews, or

883
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,920
Poles and Russians because they're different races. That's what they meant.

884
01:07:31,719 --> 01:07:35,400
They weren't saying Jews are this evil race that's different

885
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,920
than us because we're obsessed with race and we figured

886
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,239
this all out. That's the way everybody talked. That's the

887
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:43,960
way everybody thought, and that doesn't make any sense. And

888
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:46,119
that's weird. Like I'm not saying it's not racial difference

889
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:48,519
between people. I'm saying in those terms, that's not the

890
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:51,400
way people think about politics anymore. That's the way everybody

891
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,360
thought about politics in the nineteen twenties, thirties and forties.

892
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,920
America was singly obsessed with this idea that you know,

893
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:05,119
eugenics could had selective intervention, whether it's sterilizing people who

894
01:08:05,199 --> 01:08:08,920
are deemed to be criminal incorrigibles or whether it was

895
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,559
you know, facilitating you know, large families among high IQ people.

896
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:16,079
The people weren advanced that this is gonna usher into

897
01:08:16,079 --> 01:08:21,800
some utopia. Okay, So that's not an explanation to say

898
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:23,680
that like, oh, Germans had race on the brain and

899
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,720
just decided they didn't like Jews because they were an

900
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,000
impure race or something. That's totally the wrong way to

901
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:29,720
look at it. Like you can say that that kind

902
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,600
of thinking is bullshit and it's and it's nonsense. But

903
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,199
to characterize it as like evil German thought or some

904
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:40,119
crazy thing German people thought, you know, that was exclusive

905
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:43,920
to their cultural pathologies or something, that's complete nonsense.

906
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: So there's that too, and it's it survived. I mean

907
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:52,760
you see it today with this whole candae Owan's Daily

908
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:56,000
Wire thing. Yeah. You even have people who you never

909
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:59,439
would have thought come out and say things like the

910
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,079
cause of anti Semitism is Jewish behavior.

911
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, the term itself too, Like why what

912
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,960
so there's tension between Germans and Jews because because Germans

913
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,920
hate Semitism? Like what what do they mean mean? Like

914
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,199
what the fuck is Semitism? You know, Like that's like

915
01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:20,760
saying that's like saying like, yeah, you know the Koreans

916
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:24,359
and the Chinese, are they they dislike each other because

917
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:28,800
of epicantic follism, Like I mean that doesn't like, uh,

918
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:33,520
it suggests that there's some immutable trait, like unrelated to politics,

919
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,439
that that people just you know, somehow decided that it's

920
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,840
a basis for animosity and like it's not. That's not

921
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,880
the way things work, you know. That's why that's why

922
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,800
I discourage people from using that term. Like anti Semitism

923
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,159
is even moremaningless than racism. I mean, at least like

924
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:55,399
at least canna say like I mean, race obviously exists,

925
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,439
and it's conceivable that, like you know, there's people who,

926
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,399
for no regular reason, you know, just have certain preferences

927
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,399
and prejudices, you know, and because race isn't is an

928
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,880
essentially and characteristic and we're talking about humans, like that

929
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,279
makes sense, Like you know, Pep Germans just opposed Semitism.

930
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,800
But the best is that Palestinians are anti Semitic, so

931
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,640
like they're anti themselves. I mean, like like what it's

932
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:34,720
it's it's literally retarded. But anyway, but Noulty Nolty was

933
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,199
basically I mean I think he was. He was a

934
01:10:37,239 --> 01:10:40,720
remarkable guy. I mean that goes out saying and he

935
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,560
had a far more he had a far greater aptitude

936
01:10:46,079 --> 01:10:49,800
for analysis of the historical process than than most people

937
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:56,840
even even kind of who are of his class and caliber.

938
01:10:57,039 --> 01:11:06,560
But his view of Germany's sort of tragedy and heritage,

939
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,359
that's that's basically like a right, hey, alien view. It's

940
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:14,560
not it's not this like aut landish thing. And one

941
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:16,800
of the reasons why he was so sort of savagely

942
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:22,159
excoriated by his enemies, you know, the degree to which

943
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,960
legal reasoning becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And I invoke

944
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,920
Alan went to Holmes a lot who I think I'll

945
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:30,319
went to Homes Junior. I think a lot of people

946
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:33,000
want to read because I like, maybe it's because I

947
01:11:33,119 --> 01:11:36,720
was a lawyer, and like a I spent a lot

948
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,840
of time with legal theory and case law and things.

949
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,760
People have this idea that home Junior is like this

950
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,199
big liberal or something like. You know, Holmes point out

951
01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:49,399
legal realism is that it's no such thing, and that

952
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,399
the law is not a science. It's not this process

953
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,079
by which you know, a kind of like science and

954
01:11:55,159 --> 01:11:59,800
ethics can be discovered or by which you know, outcomes

955
01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:02,960
can be guaranteed that on a long enough timeline or

956
01:12:03,039 --> 01:12:09,239
assuming good faith among actors potential actors to to the

957
01:12:09,319 --> 01:12:13,960
controversy at bar, you know, the best possible outcomes for

958
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,680
all parties can be realized. His whole point was that

959
01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:21,079
all the law is as political preferences that are totally arbitrary.

960
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,119
And then he give an epoch, you know, dressed up

961
01:12:24,199 --> 01:12:28,840
as as some sort of some sort of logical like like,

962
01:12:29,359 --> 01:12:31,760
as some sort of imperative base on a science of logic,

963
01:12:32,079 --> 01:12:41,000
and that's complete horseship. And because world order was so

964
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:49,279
much structured according to the letter of according to not

965
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:51,239
just not just not just a letter of rhetoric, but

966
01:12:51,359 --> 01:12:57,279
to but like legitimacy was so much bound up with language,

967
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:07,600
you know, laid down by supposedly by supposedly objective international tribunals.

968
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,479
First Forrest Nuremberger, this idea that oh, this, this, this

969
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,920
is just an absolute truth. You know that well obviously

970
01:13:15,119 --> 01:13:17,079
you know, there was there was this, there's this massive

971
01:13:17,119 --> 01:13:21,199
conspiracy to murdered Jewish people for no reason, perhaps in

972
01:13:21,319 --> 01:13:24,119
nineteen twenty three. By this, by this criminal cadre, I

973
01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:27,079
mean that the court said, so, you know, and if

974
01:13:28,079 --> 01:13:33,119
they're gonna base, if we're gonna base, what succeeded the

975
01:13:33,279 --> 01:13:41,680
moral consensus as regarded war in peace on what amounts

976
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,640
to an ideological statement dressed up as a criminal court

977
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:50,000
decision that kind of tortured logic and and and sort

978
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,279
of like non reasoning is is going to take on

979
01:13:52,399 --> 01:13:57,800
this outside significance. So that's part of it, you know,

980
01:13:58,039 --> 01:14:05,840
so pointing out obvious and not so obvious but troubling

981
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,399
facts of history related to the reality of you know,

982
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:12,800
kind of the anthropological and sociological origins of conflict at scale.

983
01:14:13,279 --> 01:14:18,640
This is like outraged people because you know, they like

984
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:23,199
the like the simpletons kind of intellectual sanctuary is always legalism,

985
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:28,920
you know. And I made that point too that by

986
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,760
by the time uh, strategic parody had set in, I

987
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:40,000
mean even beforehand, probably by the time the Single Integrated

988
01:14:40,039 --> 01:14:45,920
Operation Plan, which is America's strategic war fighting doctrine, I mean,

989
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,720
by the time like that just became openly accepted that

990
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,760
the fighting win a nuclear war, We're gonna kill eighty

991
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,279
million people. I mean, like you know, you no longer

992
01:14:55,319 --> 01:14:58,159
can talk about, you know, you know what we're gonna

993
01:14:58,159 --> 01:15:02,159
invoke this kind of foam moral out age or anything

994
01:15:02,199 --> 01:15:03,880
that went on in World War two, and you you

995
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:10,159
certainly can't declare that, you know that men who devise

996
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:15,680
the technologies of mega death or who implement them at

997
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:20,600
scale and executive capacities, or are somehow the end music humanity.

998
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,720
I mean it like nobody, even even though that child

999
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,319
can see like why that's ridiculous. But but that's why

1000
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,319
that that that that was the context, and that's the

1001
01:15:29,359 --> 01:15:37,439
inner thing today too, because people still try to tear down, know,

1002
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:43,960
these postulates, but they increasingly they can't do it. I mean,

1003
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,239
first of all, I mean there's just people an acting

1004
01:15:47,279 --> 01:15:50,039
beam are just lacking and then they're not built for it.

1005
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,760
But there also there's not like really a context anymore,

1006
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,880
you know, like they can't there's like without the without

1007
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:00,760
sort of the Cold War, you know, not just as

1008
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:05,279
an existential sort of reality around which things just orbit,

1009
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:09,640
you know, politically and sociologically in existential terms. You know,

1010
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:13,319
there's not there's not the contextual focus in order to

1011
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:19,960
kind of provide people with ethical like like ontological sort

1012
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,279
of pull stars is where like the situate themselves are

1013
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:28,800
like what the starting point should be for for such

1014
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,680
a discussion. But some thing I wanted to get into

1015
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:44,720
a little bit too, is uh, you know, the the

1016
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:48,560
historians who did who were basically viewed as as sympathetic

1017
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:55,520
to the Bundesa as ah like as an institution and

1018
01:16:55,720 --> 01:17:02,319
it's it's political and military mission. These were guys, i'd say,

1019
01:17:02,359 --> 01:17:04,479
a guy who kind of most exemplified that position with

1020
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,520
Jachham fest And it shows you how sort of like

1021
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:15,439
perverted discourse had become and remains. All thankully, it's not

1022
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,880
quite as bad around the issue with Germany and German

1023
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,760
the German historical experience. Like Festu, his father was this

1024
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:30,079
was this anti government extremist in the Third Reich. Best

1025
01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:33,479
actually he either served in the Vermont to the vass

1026
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,000
in the finalized of the war, which I think is

1027
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:40,199
quite heroic, but he hid this fact until the day

1028
01:17:40,279 --> 01:17:45,760
he died. He was this big anti fascist. He was

1029
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:49,640
definitely a proponent of the sunder veg or a special

1030
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:58,760
way or special path theory of German historical development. But

1031
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:04,479
he also acknowledged that the German people were facing oblivion,

1032
01:18:08,119 --> 01:18:14,279
not just psychologically and culturally, but biologically. He was very

1033
01:18:14,319 --> 01:18:19,800
anti Soviet. You know, when he cast he said Hitler

1034
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:24,119
basically was almost like a shamanistic sort of figure who

1035
01:18:24,199 --> 01:18:28,039
reflected the will of the body politic. You know, he

1036
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:34,199
wasn't simply leading people at stray or something. That's a

1037
01:18:34,279 --> 01:18:39,880
pretty weak argument and a Milk Coast argument, but like

1038
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:41,920
that was considered to be this kind of like extreme

1039
01:18:42,039 --> 01:18:44,960
apologia or like some sort of like a hard right

1040
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:50,800
dangerous idea I mean, which which is totally insane. A. J. P. Taylor,

1041
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:54,000
He's another guy who's and he's well worth reading. He's

1042
01:18:54,039 --> 01:18:58,560
a typical kind of German hating Englishman of the epoch.

1043
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,279
He's got this irrational house stility to all to Germany,

1044
01:19:01,279 --> 01:19:06,359
all into German. But his take was that, you know,

1045
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:09,079
Churchill brought the war in the West out upon himself

1046
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:14,079
and upon his country. Why on earth did Germans want

1047
01:19:14,119 --> 01:19:16,239
a war in the West, which obviously they didn't. I mean,

1048
01:19:16,319 --> 01:19:19,199
the fact that that was used is some sort of

1049
01:19:20,039 --> 01:19:25,439
minority take is absurd too. But his uh, he had

1050
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:31,279
a unique kind of or he had him rather ye

1051
01:19:31,279 --> 01:19:33,000
had him, and he hit his own kind of disgree

1052
01:19:34,199 --> 01:19:39,960
understanding of Saunder vague and that it was there was

1053
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:48,600
a unique German trajectory in the modern era that became

1054
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:53,720
aggravated in earnest after eighteen forty eight and particularly after

1055
01:19:53,840 --> 01:20:00,439
unification in eighteen seventy nine. But that you know, Hitler

1056
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:04,079
geostrategic terms, acted like any other German executive, would you know.

1057
01:20:04,119 --> 01:20:05,960
And again he had a computative view of the Germans

1058
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,760
as a people. But he completely rejected this idea that

1059
01:20:10,079 --> 01:20:12,119
you know, Hitler was this evil mad man and and

1060
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:16,760
just some kind of some kind of outlier. And interestingly,

1061
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,800
one of the one of the one of the contributors

1062
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:26,039
was then pretty I think it was. I think it was.

1063
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:26,359
Speaker 1: Uh.

1064
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 2: I can'tmemer his name, the guy with two thousand and

1065
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,600
eight he wrote a pretty he wrote, uh, he wrote

1066
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:38,439
a very good biography of Vladimir Putin, which of course

1067
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,039
was like, you know, it was like hysterically, it was

1068
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:47,279
hysterically attacked by these people who see Russians under their

1069
01:20:47,359 --> 01:20:49,920
bed and and think that Vladimir Putin is an evil

1070
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:54,239
mad man for not inviting NATO to point nuclear weapons

1071
01:20:54,319 --> 01:20:56,960
at him into cavitation range. But I I can't remeber

1072
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:57,680
the guy's name.

1073
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 1: Doctor Matthew Fael Johnson.

1074
01:21:02,119 --> 01:21:03,359
Speaker 2: What's that was it?

1075
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:04,600
Speaker 1: Doctor Matthew Rafael.

1076
01:21:05,039 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: He's a German guy. And he he was what the

1077
01:21:13,119 --> 01:21:19,079
historic historic Astrikee in total constituted about like two dosand

1078
01:21:19,119 --> 01:21:21,720
academics like on the right or the left, Nolty and

1079
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,920
Harid Moss, like Petra harrimoas with a primary kind of

1080
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,399
theorists that people associate with it. But there's a lot

1081
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:34,680
of people and some pretty diverse opinions forward it. But

1082
01:21:35,079 --> 01:21:42,880
this guy's name will come to me. But the if

1083
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,960
the there's something of a korma guys to Fritz Fisher

1084
01:21:47,239 --> 01:21:59,239
among them. He uh, he had a a functionalist viewpoint

1085
01:21:59,319 --> 01:22:04,319
of things, and this was in vogue based with like neorealism,

1086
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:09,840
you know, like traditional realism, real politique, and besides anthropological

1087
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:15,840
and organic you know, causes of conflict and of state

1088
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:23,600
behavior in human behavior at scale, you know, really from

1089
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,720
the sixties onward, it became in vogue, uh, you know,

1090
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,960
talking about institutional behavior, you know how you know, structural

1091
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:39,479
phenomenon and alternatively and sometimes concominantly functionalist explanations you know,

1092
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:47,000
are you know, reveal revealed data, meaningful data about you know,

1093
01:22:47,079 --> 01:22:50,800
war and peace, but also you know political behavior scale,

1094
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:53,000
you know, and and of course too that.

1095
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:56,199
Speaker 1: That that that.

1096
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 2: That shares some common ground with some of these moderate

1097
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,520
left to Galiens and things, but in other ways, you know,

1098
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:08,039
they objected to that too, So it's some interesting there

1099
01:23:08,119 --> 01:23:10,319
was some interesting opinions being bandied back and forth. But

1100
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:17,000
what the reason it became this censorious controversy was for

1101
01:23:17,319 --> 01:23:21,920
all the wrong and most predictable reasons, you know it

1102
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:30,000
and obviously any any any any German truly right wing,

1103
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:34,479
you know, not even particularly pro nacial socialists, but remotely

1104
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,399
patriotic or unwilling to kind of take a knee before

1105
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:42,439
you know, proverbialated before you know, NATO and Zionist and

1106
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,279
interest in the things they're going to view the sounder

1107
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:48,159
of a conception as well as you know, the the

1108
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,720
functionalist explanations as it's basically you know, left wing and

1109
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,640
nature and and and intrinsically cunative, which they were, you know,

1110
01:24:00,359 --> 01:24:02,319
but it's also again, you know, by the by the

1111
01:24:02,359 --> 01:24:05,560
mid nineteen eighties, you know, you're talking about four decades

1112
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:09,640
having passed. Even if even if the Third Reich had

1113
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:13,079
been this totally brutish regime, and even if even if

1114
01:24:13,279 --> 01:24:16,560
it's fewer had been you know, the second Coming of

1115
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,560
Dracula or something, it's like, well again you know, if

1116
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:24,399
you're expecting us, us being us being the German people,

1117
01:24:25,279 --> 01:24:27,640
you know, to take a million dead in seventy two hours,

1118
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,840
you know, fighting off the Ivans, and you expect our land,

1119
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:34,680
which you know, for the record, has been occupied now

1120
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,920
for forty years. It's the designated nuclear battlefield of World

1121
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,079
War three. You know, see what you want, you want

1122
01:24:42,119 --> 01:24:43,760
it's basically be you know, like kind of the holy

1123
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:47,920
warriors of of what you considered civilization is communism. But

1124
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:49,239
then you're gonna turn on and say that, you know,

1125
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:52,840
we're evil pieces of shit like that doesn't that that

1126
01:24:52,920 --> 01:25:02,279
doesn't treat you know, But it's also I think uh

1127
01:25:04,319 --> 01:25:08,960
and Nola himself made this point, you know, as I

1128
01:25:09,039 --> 01:25:10,720
get a lot of hate mail for a lot of reasons,

1129
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,279
and a lot of which surprisingly relates to the Vietnam War.

1130
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,199
I think American issupposedly an older American is they feel

1131
01:25:18,319 --> 01:25:20,239
they got they got strong emotions bound up with this.

1132
01:25:20,319 --> 01:25:24,520
And I understand that I invote the Vietnam War for

1133
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,680
comparative purposes, not not not for some cynical reason, but

1134
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,119
for the reason Nolty did. If you want to understand,

1135
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:38,800
in the ethical terms set out by the victors in

1136
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:43,560
World War Two and by their their ethical metrics and

1137
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:47,199
by what was considered until the end of the Westphalian

1138
01:25:47,279 --> 01:25:51,039
era to be you know, the moral consensus relating the

1139
01:25:51,119 --> 01:25:55,119
laws and customs of war. The Vietnam War made us,

1140
01:25:55,199 --> 01:25:57,760
it made hash with that all those things as much

1141
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,399
as the Second World War did. And the entire internal

1142
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:03,039
logic of a free fire zone is not any different

1143
01:26:04,199 --> 01:26:09,840
than that of the mandate of of an mindset's group

1144
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:16,880
and formation saying that, you know, designating an area a

1145
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,079
free fire zone, and saying that there are no civilians here,

1146
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,840
and regardless of age, sex, overall health, everybody is a

1147
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:27,920
fair target. Because anybody who remains here after this, you know,

1148
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:30,960
they've been put on notice and give an opportunity to

1149
01:26:31,039 --> 01:26:36,520
be evacuated, is obviously, you know, an act in communist

1150
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:42,079
or a sympathizer with the enemy idea. And because you know,

1151
01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:47,039
as the mentioned material that is literally the what you know,

1152
01:26:47,119 --> 01:26:49,840
the bearer of that idea, it's got to be annihilated.

1153
01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:56,199
It being human beings. Welcome to the Welcome to warfare

1154
01:26:56,239 --> 01:27:01,000
of the twentieth century, where all wars are a total wars,

1155
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:06,560
and all total wars are ideological wars. You know, so

1156
01:27:08,319 --> 01:27:12,560
when you've got every week America dropping you know, the

1157
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:17,760
body count as their victory metric, like literally measuring measuring

1158
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,199
whether we're winning the Cold War where it's gone hot

1159
01:27:20,399 --> 01:27:24,279
and mountains of corpses we're counting, you know, when the

1160
01:27:24,359 --> 01:27:26,760
victory metric and nuclear war is can we kill an

1161
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,880
enemy society, you know, by annihilating eighty million of its people,

1162
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:39,520
when you've got the Chinese, who after sixty eight, according

1163
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,880
to a lot of these same academics, we're doing things

1164
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,079
like breaking nolity of the cols. This was you know,

1165
01:27:45,199 --> 01:27:47,840
kind of the true progressive regime that was, you know,

1166
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:53,680
realizing communism. They were deliberately killing off tens of millions

1167
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:57,520
of their own people as useless eaters. Okay, you can't.

1168
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:00,640
It's as laughable to turn around and and start and

1169
01:28:01,039 --> 01:28:07,000
started and start spitting like number lies or trying to

1170
01:28:07,079 --> 01:28:10,159
declare that, you know, yes, the world is a wicked

1171
01:28:10,279 --> 01:28:14,520
place and and war is terrible. But you know those Germans,

1172
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:19,560
you know, they're they're they're just you know, they're they're

1173
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:21,520
they're just in league with Lucifer, and you know we

1174
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:26,520
we can never forgive them for this. So I mean,

1175
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,359
I think it was all of those things. You know,

1176
01:28:32,039 --> 01:28:34,680
now that doesn't that's that's not to say that, I mean, obviously,

1177
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:40,880
that's not to say that what sort of political biases,

1178
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,000
you know, gain momentum and and and become like consensus,

1179
01:28:44,359 --> 01:28:50,199
consensus reality and in conceptual terms as has any kind

1180
01:28:50,239 --> 01:28:54,600
of bearing on unreasonable things or or reasonable ass itself

1181
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:57,520
or anything like that. But you know, we're not. We

1182
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,399
weren't talking about you know, some sort of are between

1183
01:29:00,399 --> 01:29:03,000
the hoy ploye or we weren't talking about some policy

1184
01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:06,279
initiative that like the official trying to convince people of

1185
01:29:07,359 --> 01:29:10,159
through television media or something. We're talking. We were talking.

1186
01:29:10,359 --> 01:29:14,119
This was a very that this was an argument between

1187
01:29:14,359 --> 01:29:18,359
and this was like a controversy between you know, like

1188
01:29:18,399 --> 01:29:24,039
a very narrow quartery coterie of academics who, you know,

1189
01:29:24,119 --> 01:29:28,119
all of whom knew better than what they were alleging

1190
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:35,159
those contract multi I mean, so that's important. That's important

1191
01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:40,800
to keep in mind. And I'll also say, and I

1192
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:46,560
actually wrote them. I wrote about this, and I I

1193
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:54,479
wasn't jumping around a bit, but uh, just I mean

1194
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,119
for clarity too. Here's here's what these are. The four

1195
01:29:58,279 --> 01:30:02,840
questions are the four like, how is according to according

1196
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,079
to Nolty himself as well as Harber Moss, and according

1197
01:30:05,119 --> 01:30:10,479
to according to the people who populated most of these forums,

1198
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,720
were these these debates are being had between you know,

1199
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:16,119
eighty four, eighty five and like eighty nine, it was

1200
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,680
were the were the crimes of the Third Reich uniquely

1201
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:31,560
evil or were they comparable, you know, to the scaled

1202
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:37,199
violence of the Soviet Union other communist countries. Secondly, what

1203
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:39,920
is sounder vague a meaningful concept at all?

1204
01:30:40,239 --> 01:30:40,520
Speaker 1: Okay?

1205
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,199
Speaker 2: Was the violence of the Third Reich or crimes if

1206
01:30:45,239 --> 01:30:54,119
you want to abide Nuremberg logic, a reaction you know,

1207
01:30:54,239 --> 01:30:58,720
to the Soviet violence like an equal and opposing reaction, okay.

1208
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,520
And and finally, you know, should the Germans, like as

1209
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,800
a people or as like a national group, like bear

1210
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,720
some some some generational burdening guilt, you know, for the

1211
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:14,760
supposed national socialist crimes or or should they be permitted

1212
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,680
you know, to participation in some sort of you know,

1213
01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:23,399
cultural and national life. And that really I mean regardless,

1214
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:26,319
like even if one accepts the kind of however preposterous.

1215
01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:39,199
The yeah, the aforementioned postules this idea, that this this

1216
01:31:39,359 --> 01:31:43,720
idea that conflicts that are global in scale, can just

1217
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:47,159
be caused by you know, some national group of bad actors.

1218
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:49,439
I mean, that's that's the way a child would think,

1219
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:51,600
you know. I mean, that's just it's on his face,

1220
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,680
that's just that's just incredibly stupid, you know. And I

1221
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:57,920
emphasize that again and again, like it's not even you know,

1222
01:31:58,079 --> 01:32:01,640
just not that. That's not a serious people or irrational

1223
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:06,319
adults talk about historical cause and effect or or or

1224
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:13,680
discuss political concepts, you know, whether you know with practice

1225
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:17,640
or or you know, matters of pure theory such as

1226
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:25,359
pure theory can exist in uh in in in discussion

1227
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:28,159
of politics. But you know, Nolty, one of the reason

1228
01:32:28,159 --> 01:32:32,199
I respected him, is he or one of the reasons

1229
01:32:32,239 --> 01:32:34,600
I he got my attention initially. I mean it was

1230
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,840
like pre internet talking, even before I became a lawyer.

1231
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:45,520
I put a lot of stock in direct testimony and

1232
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:52,039
discrete psychological aspects of within, you know, the mind of

1233
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:59,039
the key decision makers. And you know, Nulty cited Hitler's

1234
01:32:59,079 --> 01:33:03,119
table talk, you know, where Hitler would talk about repeatedly

1235
01:33:03,199 --> 01:33:06,640
the rat cage torture, you know, and saying in the

1236
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:08,800
context of you know, this is what the communists do

1237
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:13,239
to people, and you know, also talking about his own fate.

1238
01:33:13,359 --> 01:33:15,479
You know, I'm not I'm not gonna the communists capture

1239
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:19,720
me and and subject me to the rat cage torture. Now,

1240
01:33:20,279 --> 01:33:22,560
people like Harrimas said, oh, this is absurd, This was

1241
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:25,880
this is just Hitler suggesting that you know that you

1242
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,359
dave a bullsheit again to me that apparently, you know,

1243
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,119
going to be like Harvard must existed only in Hitler's imagination.

1244
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:36,199
We're prone to these barbaric acts. But the Soviets actually

1245
01:33:36,279 --> 01:33:40,399
did that. You know people, or well I assume college

1246
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:43,319
kids will still read. That's quite literally a plot, like

1247
01:33:43,359 --> 01:33:46,560
a major plot point of nineteen eighty four. You know,

1248
01:33:47,119 --> 01:33:54,039
Smith sells out Julia and and his comrades, and what

1249
01:33:54,199 --> 01:33:58,600
breaks his mind is that O'Brien threatens to ratcage him.

1250
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:01,560
You know, it's this idea that is this something that

1251
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:04,359
Hitler made up or it was you know, the sort

1252
01:34:04,359 --> 01:34:08,000
of fever dreams of a madman. I mean, that's the

1253
01:34:08,199 --> 01:34:11,039
entire point of doing things like the rad cage torture.

1254
01:34:11,079 --> 01:34:12,680
You do you do something like that for one of

1255
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:16,199
two reasons. Either you're a disgusting status who likes to

1256
01:34:16,279 --> 01:34:20,880
torture people, or you're devising things that are so terrifying

1257
01:34:21,399 --> 01:34:26,159
to the human being kind of universally regardless of you know, sex,

1258
01:34:26,319 --> 01:34:32,600
or background or national or like ethnic psychology. Like you

1259
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:35,960
divide things that are so horrible to human beings that

1260
01:34:37,159 --> 01:34:42,199
you know people instinctively will will kind of bend to

1261
01:34:42,279 --> 01:34:47,039
your will. And obviously you publicize those things to terrify

1262
01:34:47,159 --> 01:34:50,640
people at scale, Like that was the whole point, you know.

1263
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:57,039
And it's this idea that you know, and Robert Conquest,

1264
01:34:57,399 --> 01:35:01,399
who I'm relying a lot upon for my own writing

1265
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:07,079
on this topic. You know, the Soviet Union had death

1266
01:35:07,159 --> 01:35:11,079
camps decades before a shot was fired in World War Two.

1267
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:14,359
You know, they they annihilated ten million of their own

1268
01:35:14,399 --> 01:35:19,319
people as of September third, nineteen thirty nine. I mean,

1269
01:35:19,399 --> 01:35:22,479
like what you can't get away from this and the

1270
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,640
idea that, oh, well Hitler couldn't have known about that,

1271
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:32,760
that's nonsense. You know. On my own sub stack, I

1272
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:38,880
wrote about max On shooting or Richter he fell at

1273
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:45,479
at the Munich Pooch like he he'd actually when the

1274
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:50,399
National Soldialist charged the police court On He'd locked arms

1275
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:56,079
with a Hitler and uh he got shot and he

1276
01:35:56,199 --> 01:35:59,399
died instantly, like his his heart got pierced. And when

1277
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:03,640
Richter f well, he had actually dislocated Hitler's shoulder. And

1278
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,079
Hitler later said he said Richter was the He's like,

1279
01:36:08,119 --> 01:36:10,239
he's the only man we couldn't afford to lose at

1280
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,239
at Munich. You know, he's like our party, the party

1281
01:36:13,319 --> 01:36:14,159
like never recovered.

1282
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Now.

1283
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,279
Speaker 2: I wrote a whole series on Richter because here's where

1284
01:36:19,359 --> 01:36:23,560
there's background was he was a Baltic German like Rosenberg, okay,

1285
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,800
and the Baltic Germans instrumentally kind of shaping the early

1286
01:36:27,039 --> 01:36:30,319
like for the post Drexler Party, the post Drexler but

1287
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:38,760
pre but pre uh electoral path National Socialist Party Okay,

1288
01:36:39,079 --> 01:36:40,960
when it was still in a very revolutionary phase. But

1289
01:36:41,199 --> 01:36:44,680
but a phase that nonetheless was was was being shaped

1290
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:50,279
by Hitler, you know, Doc. Finally he was a free

1291
01:36:50,319 --> 01:36:54,399
Corps veteran who you know, been fighting, you've been fighting

1292
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:59,640
the communists and in the Baltic but he also he

1293
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:07,039
was a aristocrat of somewhere known he was in uh Turkey.

1294
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:10,920
When you're meetings, when you're meeting genicide jumped off and

1295
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,199
the way the world came to know of it was

1296
01:37:13,359 --> 01:37:20,640
Richter was issuing these dispatches back to Berlin from the

1297
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:27,000
German diplomatic mission, and the Kaiser's representative finally said, you

1298
01:37:27,079 --> 01:37:30,439
got to stop doing this. You know, we need we

1299
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,560
need to try and get these people, these people being

1300
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:37,439
the terms like back in the war and whatever whatever

1301
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:40,319
government succeeds assault in it, we've got to have good

1302
01:37:40,359 --> 01:37:43,600
offices with them. But so Richter went to the Red

1303
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:47,880
Cross and he started publicizing what he was seeing to

1304
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,800
anybody who would listen. And he was directly responsible for

1305
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:57,560
him to rescue a lot of vulnerable persons among this population,

1306
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:00,920
the targeted people, you know, like women, elderly, little children.

1307
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:07,239
So the Nanstolls, this party, supposedly the only reason it convened,

1308
01:38:08,359 --> 01:38:11,199
the only reason to constituted itself, The only reason to

1309
01:38:11,239 --> 01:38:15,600
guys like Richter clicked up with Hitler was because they

1310
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:19,279
were racists who wanted to devise a criminal conspiracy to

1311
01:38:19,399 --> 01:38:23,760
murder Jews. But Richter, like he spent his spare time

1312
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:27,479
like worrying about ethnic cleansing. I mean, like what was

1313
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:29,439
you there just for show? Like they just really really

1314
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:32,800
like Turkish people, Like I don't, I mean, it doesn't track,

1315
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:40,239
like none of the tracks, you know, and that's what's important, okay,

1316
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:43,640
is that's what the big lie is. You know, the

1317
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:46,800
big lie is about stuff like Sunderbag. It's about stuff

1318
01:38:47,119 --> 01:38:49,840
like you know, making Adolf Hitler some sort of stand

1319
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,600
in for Lucifer and this like secular religion, is this

1320
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:58,439
idea that the Germans, unlike every you know, exclusive to

1321
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:01,399
themselves and like everybody else on this planet, where's obsessed

1322
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:04,159
with race and originally decided Jews or a bad race.

1323
01:39:05,159 --> 01:39:10,600
Like that's what matters. Instrumentalities of homicide don't matter, Like

1324
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,279
arguing about like did four million people die? You're eight

1325
01:39:13,359 --> 01:39:16,600
million people die? That's I mean that that's that's literally demented.

1326
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:22,479
It's also retarded, you know, I mean decides even if

1327
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,399
that is, even if that is something that people I mean,

1328
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:27,520
people can reacharch anything want, but I mean, if that

1329
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,880
is kind of like your your emphasis. You should be

1330
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:36,920
reading people like conquests. You should be reading about the

1331
01:39:37,039 --> 01:39:40,279
logic of the free fire zone in the Vietnam conflict.

1332
01:39:40,359 --> 01:39:45,600
You should be reading about, you know, the Soviet death

1333
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:52,880
camp system. You know, and like Nolty himself said, if

1334
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:57,920
you accept, if you accept everything alleged by court history

1335
01:39:58,399 --> 01:40:02,279
in total including this idea of you know, homicidal gas chambers.

1336
01:40:03,079 --> 01:40:06,119
The Soviet Union literally did everything that the Third Reich

1337
01:40:06,199 --> 01:40:09,439
allegedly did, you know, a decade beforehand, with the possible

1338
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:14,000
exception of utilizing nerve gases scale, which I hardly think matters.

1339
01:40:14,039 --> 01:40:16,239
If I'm not saying doesn't matter if people die. I'm saying,

1340
01:40:16,279 --> 01:40:19,520
you know that what we're talking about, you know, the

1341
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:27,359
preferred instrumentality of of of murderers scale. You know, we're

1342
01:40:27,399 --> 01:40:29,880
not talking about something of grand like substance of import

1343
01:40:30,159 --> 01:40:34,119
you know. So a lot of people are a lot

1344
01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:37,079
of people are just kind of like tripping over themselves,

1345
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:40,920
not just by allowing the opposition to defind the parameters

1346
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:44,199
at discourse, but also define like what is important. You know.

1347
01:40:44,399 --> 01:40:51,079
So it's like you don't court historians and people sympathetic

1348
01:40:51,159 --> 01:40:53,800
to Zionism or whatever, or people that have some kind

1349
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:58,920
of like peculiar fixation with this idea that Third Reich

1350
01:40:59,119 --> 01:41:01,239
is the epitome of you. They don't get to decide,

1351
01:41:01,279 --> 01:41:05,119
you know, what is what what the terms of discourse are.

1352
01:41:05,159 --> 01:41:07,279
They don't get to decide what the parameters are of

1353
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:10,720
of research. They don't get to decide, you know, what

1354
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:13,439
needs to be proved or rebutted, you know, as if

1355
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:16,239
they're you know, they're like like a judge in a

1356
01:41:17,159 --> 01:41:19,600
in a in a case at bar or something, you know,

1357
01:41:20,399 --> 01:41:24,279
dictating the what against you know, what the what their

1358
01:41:24,319 --> 01:41:31,039
respective burdens are and things like that. That the uh.

1359
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:39,600
And it's also I mean what at the end of

1360
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:44,000
the day at uh, you know, and ultimate at this

1361
01:41:44,079 --> 01:41:47,239
point too, at the end of the day, like the

1362
01:41:47,319 --> 01:41:52,159
past becomes the past at some point, you know. I mean,

1363
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:55,199
I this is all I do. Is is study playable

1364
01:41:55,279 --> 01:41:59,880
theory and you know, the historical process and things and

1365
01:42:00,399 --> 01:42:03,840
is you know, it's and so I mean, I'm the

1366
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:06,119
last person obviously would say like, oh, you know, it's

1367
01:42:07,079 --> 01:42:09,880
studying the struggle pross doesn't matter. But it's idea that

1368
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:16,880
even if, even if truly horrible things occur, that they

1369
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:21,520
can't be justified by any exigency or by any appeal

1370
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,680
to anything other than you know, the kind of universal

1371
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:26,439
depravity of man. I mean, it's kind of a so

1372
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:30,000
what I mean, we we don't we don't spend we

1373
01:42:30,039 --> 01:42:32,600
don't spend decades of centuries wring our hands because we

1374
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:35,079
inherited some guilt because people are bad. You know or

1375
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:38,680
or our ancestors are bad. That's just not, that's not

1376
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:40,760
the way we do things in the West, among other things,

1377
01:42:41,239 --> 01:42:45,800
you know. I mean, yeah, obviously an underpentent sinner is

1378
01:42:47,119 --> 01:42:49,720
there's a few things kind of more obtuse and ugly

1379
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:53,079
than that. But you know, one sin isn't greater than

1380
01:42:53,079 --> 01:42:56,359
another sin or less than another. You know, it's just

1381
01:42:56,479 --> 01:42:59,000
not that's a bizarre way to look at the world,

1382
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:03,760
as if you know, some sins are worse than others,

1383
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,880
some historical events or criminal offenses. Others are just you know,

1384
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:13,359
spontaneous occurrences, and certain ones you inherit a kind of

1385
01:43:14,199 --> 01:43:17,319
liability for them that you have to atone for symbolically

1386
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:23,319
or ritually. Like that's that's that's really really really strange conceptually,

1387
01:43:24,359 --> 01:43:26,479
you know, And I put it. I put that to

1388
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:30,840
people too, like even if even if even if these

1389
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:33,800
people I have rams or are these people like kind

1390
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:40,319
of poor little unfortunate w Lipstott, He's he's incredibly stupid.

1391
01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:43,880
I mean, having ussel isn't stupid, but I mean she is, yea,

1392
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:45,640
even if other things she said was true, I mean,

1393
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:47,880
it'd be kind of a big so what you know,

1394
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:51,199
I mean, am I so jump off a building because

1395
01:43:51,239 --> 01:43:55,800
my answers just did bad things. I should I should

1396
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:58,000
I wear a hair shirt, might go to sleep or something?

1397
01:43:58,239 --> 01:44:00,359
Or should I should I get like half of my

1398
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:03,520
money is a teeth like the local synagogue. Like I

1399
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:08,159
don't what executive people want, you know, But I'm not.

1400
01:44:08,239 --> 01:44:09,720
I'm not just being up to so I can actually

1401
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:10,960
put this to people and they will get me like

1402
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:14,800
I'm an Elien. But I mean maybe I am pretty weird,

1403
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:15,319
but I don't.

1404
01:44:15,399 --> 01:44:18,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they pretty much tell you what they want.

1405
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:24,600
They want you not to just say that you know,

1406
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:28,560
what happened was bad and that it was the worst

1407
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:32,600
thing that ever happened. But they want you to go

1408
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:35,720
out of your way to say the evil that was

1409
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:40,479
done to them was unique above what every other evil

1410
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:42,079
ever done in history.

1411
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:45,760
Speaker 2: Was no legit. But then that plus five dollars will

1412
01:44:45,760 --> 01:44:47,960
get you a coffee. It's Starbucks, you know what I mean.

1413
01:44:48,039 --> 01:44:52,239
It's just it just doesn't I mean, you can give

1414
01:44:52,279 --> 01:44:55,920
in symbiltons of things like that, and but where the

1415
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:59,920
rubber Measter road. I mean that doesn't really that doesn't

1416
01:45:00,239 --> 01:45:01,840
matter even in the president I mean, that's the point

1417
01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:04,880
to make the people who who go nuts about Israel

1418
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,359
and stuff. It's like even if you're you know, if

1419
01:45:07,359 --> 01:45:10,239
you're someone like in passion Zionists or or some somebody

1420
01:45:10,239 --> 01:45:12,720
with the slave mentality is like not Jewish, but just

1421
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:17,880
as decided like take on those prejudices for some unconstable reason.

1422
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:24,039
I mean, it's like, okay, like you know, the the Palestinians,

1423
01:45:24,239 --> 01:45:26,560
his your ops, aren't They're not all gonna like put

1424
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:28,079
down their clashing the costs and be like, you know what,

1425
01:45:28,159 --> 01:45:30,399
you're right, you know, specialficums of the history. I'm a

1426
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:33,560
terrible person. I'm gonna stop. Now. You can convince like

1427
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:38,159
a billion rooms and you know, the rest of the

1428
01:45:38,239 --> 01:45:41,479
world that you're right. That's great, that being right doesn't

1429
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:42,039
win wars.

1430
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna It's easy to get people who live

1431
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,239
in a first world country, who you know, can have food,

1432
01:45:51,119 --> 01:45:54,399
you can have food delivered for them to be to

1433
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:56,920
adopt these things because you know, they don't really have

1434
01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:59,119
anything bad going on in their life. But when you

1435
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:02,199
have people in other countries who have in Arab countries,

1436
01:46:02,239 --> 01:46:06,000
who have real problems, they're like, well, fuck you, Well.

1437
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 2: It's just a weird. Yeah, I mean, it's it's somewhat

1438
01:46:09,119 --> 01:46:13,079
it's somewhat uh well, people will say like it's nuts that,

1439
01:46:13,319 --> 01:46:16,239
uh you know. I'm like, I'm around a lot of

1440
01:46:16,319 --> 01:46:18,560
like non white people. I mean it's because like where

1441
01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:22,159
I live obviously, but like some of these guys I

1442
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:25,439
like record with and stuff, and I'm happy they like

1443
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:26,760
let me record with them, you know, because they have

1444
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:29,199
interesting stuff to say. And like if people are interesting,

1445
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:34,279
you know, I I I feel lucky if they let

1446
01:46:34,359 --> 01:46:36,560
me record what they got to say. But there's like

1447
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:38,680
all these weirdos of semi hate mail, and even if

1448
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:40,760
there's some who aren't so much haters, but they're just like,

1449
01:46:41,279 --> 01:46:42,960
you know, how do those people possibly let you in

1450
01:46:43,039 --> 01:46:44,960
their house? I'm like, well, would they care what I'm into? Like,

1451
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:46,600
that's not the way normal people think. It's like you

1452
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,239
think that wakes you're a weirdo. It's like if you like,

1453
01:46:51,199 --> 01:46:52,960
if you'd like if you think that, like black people

1454
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:54,479
like look at some guy, like, oh, that guy's got

1455
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:56,560
a nutsy shirt on. I can't let him in my house.

1456
01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,560
Like no one thinks the way with total weirdos, you know,

1457
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:05,720
or like bitch made like like suburbanit people who lived

1458
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:08,279
through their television or something like, I don't even know

1459
01:47:08,399 --> 01:47:10,159
what it's like. No one thinks that way man, like

1460
01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:13,199
in the real world, you know. And I guess that's

1461
01:47:13,239 --> 01:47:16,359
like my point, you know, it's so you can the

1462
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,640
uh what the and in mind, that's the point always

1463
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:22,119
made to people too, like partic eaments and noualty. It's

1464
01:47:22,199 --> 01:47:26,520
that what It's not what the way you judge these things,

1465
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:29,720
the way you judge kind of like what's shaping the

1466
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:34,840
conceptual horizon. It's not what. It's not what Ben Shapiro

1467
01:47:35,000 --> 01:47:38,279
is saying or tweeting out. It's not what MSNBC is saying.

1468
01:47:38,399 --> 01:47:40,560
It's not it's not like how things being presented in

1469
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,560
Hollywood movies. You know, it's like a matter of zeitgeist,

1470
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:45,520
and once and once things like lose their kind of

1471
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:49,640
evocative power and like lose their like monumental power, like

1472
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:53,720
like that they're done. They can't be like recaptured, you know,

1473
01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:58,439
and like nobody, like no serious historian would take something

1474
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:01,760
like Shindler's List like seriously today, you know, like and

1475
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:03,680
that and that that that then that's not going to change,

1476
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:07,760
that's not coming back, you know, and nobody's people like

1477
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:12,079
people basically unless you're a and like's in one of

1478
01:48:12,119 --> 01:48:14,560
these kinds of like weird zip codes where where people

1479
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:20,560
attend some some crazy like like non denom church that

1480
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:24,279
like worships Israel or unless you're you know, like in Scoche, Illinois,

1481
01:48:24,399 --> 01:48:27,399
like like basically like nobody likes Israel, and like that's

1482
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:29,000
not going to change. That's not going back to the

1483
01:48:29,039 --> 01:48:31,359
way it was, you know, twenty years ago. You know,

1484
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:37,720
like this can't the like zeitgeist when when they preceding

1485
01:48:38,399 --> 01:48:42,760
this is a conceptual structure, like psychological constitution is gone,

1486
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:46,600
like it's gone, you know, and everything is different now.

1487
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:48,720
I mean, that's that's why I was emphasized that people

1488
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,920
who say that things are so terrible today that it's

1489
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:55,520
it's practically like mainstreaming to be somewhat right wing, you know,

1490
01:48:56,039 --> 01:48:58,920
like that that's a sea change from thirty years ago.

1491
01:48:59,239 --> 01:49:01,840
That was like one thing thirty years ago, you know,

1492
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:03,760
and and things can things are never going to go

1493
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:07,800
back to the way they were, you know. And that's

1494
01:49:07,880 --> 01:49:11,279
the way to look at it. It's not it's not

1495
01:49:12,359 --> 01:49:14,560
it's not what people who have access to remains of

1496
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:16,960
the bully pulp that are like shouting out kind of

1497
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:23,119
into the into the abyss or whatever, just to hear

1498
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:26,399
their own echoes. I don't know.

1499
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:30,119
Speaker 1: But uh, the book you were trying to think of

1500
01:49:30,279 --> 01:49:32,439
earlier was that Putin in the Rise of Russia by

1501
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:33,159
Michael Sturmer.

1502
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:37,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's well worth reading. And it's it's

1503
01:49:37,279 --> 01:49:39,479
actually like a very balanced biography. It's not something like

1504
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:44,399
put hagiography. I don't understand how people like speaking of

1505
01:49:44,479 --> 01:49:47,840
bizarre sort of conceits like the sighting you randomly hate

1506
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:53,520
Bladmir Putin is incredibly strange, especially when you consider he's

1507
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:56,000
like a moderate liberal, if anything, like a typical cop,

1508
01:49:56,159 --> 01:49:59,039
which is what he was. He's obsessed with, you know,

1509
01:49:59,119 --> 01:50:01,359
kind of the appearance of a biting the rules based order.

1510
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:05,399
But it's it's actually a really interesting book. And yeah,

1511
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:13,039
that Muller Miller was a he he wasn't a leading

1512
01:50:13,119 --> 01:50:17,640
light like Nolty, but he's a guy who during the

1513
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:21,239
historical strike he was. He was a younger academic and

1514
01:50:21,319 --> 01:50:28,000
interesting things to say. Oh a book RHS. Stoffley who

1515
01:50:28,079 --> 01:50:30,119
wrote that book, the Biography of Hitler, that I think

1516
01:50:30,199 --> 01:50:36,359
is so great. Hitler beyond evil and tyranny. He wrote

1517
01:50:36,399 --> 01:50:43,000
this book with this retired Wehrmacht general officer called NATO

1518
01:50:43,079 --> 01:50:46,000
Under Attack. It was published in nineteen eighty four and

1519
01:50:46,119 --> 01:50:48,680
it got a lot of attention from war college types.

1520
01:50:49,279 --> 01:50:53,079
Like the sub the subtitle was, uh, how NATO can

1521
01:50:53,119 --> 01:50:56,359
win in Europe without nuclear weapons? And if you're if

1522
01:50:56,399 --> 01:50:58,560
you're a late Cold War geek like I am, who

1523
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:02,199
I find it re emergence of conventional force structures as

1524
01:51:02,359 --> 01:51:07,479
as a major this positive variable to be fascinating just

1525
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:11,199
because it's cool, But uh, this relates very much on

1526
01:51:11,279 --> 01:51:14,800
what we're talking about and how as the tent ended

1527
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:18,119
in the final phase of the Cold War really heated up,

1528
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:23,960
you know, this sort of punitive view of the Wehrmacht

1529
01:51:24,079 --> 01:51:26,600
the and of the Germans as a people who just

1530
01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:30,680
could no longer be abided. That's I mean, it's just

1531
01:51:30,760 --> 01:51:33,079
like a fascinating kind of like period piece about what

1532
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,079
war planner types were thinking and stophe a was a

1533
01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:44,319
really freaking smart guy and who grasped political and historical

1534
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:48,840
like he grasped the philosophy of history and and political

1535
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:51,319
theory in a way most like military types don't. But

1536
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:56,239
he also was a very brilliant, like you know, military writer.

1537
01:51:57,000 --> 01:52:02,960
But yeah, that's uh, I'm gonna ask to wrap it.

1538
01:52:03,840 --> 01:52:05,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to you want to end it and

1539
01:52:05,279 --> 01:52:06,840
uh get plugs and get out of here.

1540
01:52:07,079 --> 01:52:11,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I'll in part three, I'll uh, I'll

1541
01:52:11,319 --> 01:52:13,760
take up I know people because they've been asking me.

1542
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:15,760
They've been asking me, what if any relationship there is

1543
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:19,079
between like Nolty and like some of these some of

1544
01:52:19,119 --> 01:52:21,760
these guys I mentioned, like David Irving, like Fred Leuchter,

1545
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:25,880
like like even Zundel, who people think I'm I'm too

1546
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,720
punitive on what that's we'll get into the kind of

1547
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:31,520
revisionism generally, and like Nolty's sort of like place in

1548
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:37,319
it in the third episode. Yeah you can. You can

1549
01:52:37,319 --> 01:52:39,560
always find me on Twitter or not always. I mean,

1550
01:52:39,680 --> 01:52:42,199
I think I think they've gotten tired of like nuking

1551
01:52:42,239 --> 01:52:48,000
me there. It's a real capital R E L underscore

1552
01:52:48,239 --> 01:52:51,680
number seven hm me S seven seven seven. My substack

1553
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:53,880
has been popping a lot lately. I really appreciate that

1554
01:52:54,039 --> 01:52:57,159
people are very generous and in signing up and throwing

1555
01:52:57,199 --> 01:52:58,560
me a lot of love, not just in the form

1556
01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:02,359
of like subscriptions and don'ts, but you know, sending me

1557
01:53:02,479 --> 01:53:06,000
encouraging emails and stuff. And I actually really do appreciate that.

1558
01:53:06,079 --> 01:53:08,239
I mean, I'm not trying to sound like some sentimental slob,

1559
01:53:08,319 --> 01:53:12,760
but you know I I I feel a very moved

1560
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:15,239
to get that kind of love from people. You can

1561
01:53:15,279 --> 01:53:19,000
always find my continent at my website. It's number seven

1562
01:53:19,239 --> 01:53:22,520
h on as seven seven seven dot com. I'm on

1563
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:28,359
t gram, I'm on Instagram. You know I'm I'm here

1564
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:32,600
there see can you shall find all?

1565
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:36,880
Speaker 1: Right? So Part three, Thank you very much, Thomas. I

1566
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,640
want to welcome everyone back to the Pegana Show. Thomas

1567
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:43,239
is here again and we're going to get into part

1568
01:53:43,359 --> 01:53:47,920
three of Thomas to talk about Ernst Nelty. How you doing, Thomas.

1569
01:53:48,399 --> 01:53:52,159
Speaker 2: Doing very well? Thanks for hosting me. Of course. What

1570
01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:54,920
I want to get into a bit today. I want

1571
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:57,840
to address some things that people have been asking over

1572
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:02,640
email and things, which is great. There's been a tremendous

1573
01:54:02,640 --> 01:54:07,359
amount of feedback on this series and I was pleasantly

1574
01:54:07,439 --> 01:54:11,880
surprised by that. It's it's something of a heavy topic,

1575
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:15,119
like I'm not suggesting that like people aren't smart enough

1576
01:54:15,199 --> 01:54:19,920
to comprehend it. It's just that, frankly, not like you know,

1577
01:54:20,039 --> 01:54:24,520
deep diving into into political philosophy and sort of the

1578
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:28,840
history of ideas and in a very abstract capacity, that's

1579
01:54:29,039 --> 01:54:31,520
that's not something that you know, a great number of

1580
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:35,720
people are taken in by and I totally understand that,

1581
01:54:37,399 --> 01:54:44,279
but it's essential to understanding the development of of of

1582
01:54:44,439 --> 01:54:47,560
concrete political realities in the twentieth century. And if you

1583
01:54:47,560 --> 01:54:54,079
want to understand the are present and it's it's it's

1584
01:54:54,199 --> 01:54:59,119
nuances therein you've you've got to you've got to understand

1585
01:54:59,159 --> 01:55:03,840
these things as legacy structures and legacy phenomenon of the

1586
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:08,279
twentieth century. Not just because as we talk about there's

1587
01:55:08,359 --> 01:55:15,039
been a basic stagnation in America and you know, the

1588
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:19,640
former West. Even if that were not the case, even

1589
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:25,399
if there was an authentic dynamism to American government, and

1590
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:29,079
even if there had been you know, truly forward looking

1591
01:55:30,359 --> 01:55:38,479
and in far reaching and workable sort of path forward

1592
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:44,039
in policy terms after the classing or German border. You know,

1593
01:55:44,159 --> 01:55:46,560
I'm thinking in terms of what you know, mister Nixon

1594
01:55:47,439 --> 01:55:51,920
wrote about in his final years and as well as

1595
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:54,600
you know, kind of the Bush Baker model. Like I'm

1596
01:55:54,600 --> 01:55:56,760
not suggesting people should look at that as you know,

1597
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,640
some ideal model or something, but there was like a

1598
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:04,439
dynas to it, and it was relevant to you know,

1599
01:56:04,600 --> 01:56:09,279
Postcold War realities. You know, even if there was even

1600
01:56:09,319 --> 01:56:15,279
if there was something like that extent, you know, in

1601
01:56:15,359 --> 01:56:19,359
terms of intellectual occurrence as well as political will and

1602
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:24,880
conceptual ambition, this would still be informed almost entirely by

1603
01:56:26,159 --> 01:56:31,039
you know, twentieth century structures phenomenon relationships like different as

1604
01:56:31,119 --> 01:56:34,760
things are today. As much as I agree with people

1605
01:56:35,359 --> 01:56:39,760
including mister Musk, who say that historical time is speeding

1606
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:42,319
up along the technology, that is one hundred percent true.

1607
01:56:46,560 --> 01:56:49,239
So today I want to get into some of these

1608
01:56:49,359 --> 01:56:59,800
things and what's key to understanding about novelty and German

1609
01:56:59,880 --> 01:57:08,239
idealism generally. You know, people, especially Anglophone types who have

1610
01:57:09,560 --> 01:57:13,840
are marinated with a certain disdain for continal philosophy. Okay, man,

1611
01:57:13,880 --> 01:57:17,800
it's just a fact. There's a tendency to dismiss these

1612
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:22,840
things as well. That's so much sophistry, you know, That's

1613
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:29,359
that that's just uh, you know, a not particularly lucid

1614
01:57:30,279 --> 01:57:37,560
interpretation of political realities, you know, that extrapolates the musings

1615
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:42,079
of of closer intellectuals to populations at scale. That's the

1616
01:57:42,119 --> 01:57:45,520
wrong way to look at it. Even if you don't

1617
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:53,239
accept the postuitz ontological and otherwise of Pagel of of

1618
01:57:53,399 --> 01:57:59,000
nulty of Heidegger. Even if this is nothing more than

1619
01:58:00,039 --> 01:58:03,520
a conceptual horizon that became a kind of self fulfilling

1620
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:11,119
prophecy in terms of how it shaped the European political mind,

1621
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:18,840
that's nonetheless a causal variable that isn't arguably just positive

1622
01:58:19,039 --> 01:58:23,560
of how con is. Okay, I take it a step further, obviously,

1623
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:26,039
I mean, I think it's clear to everybody that you know,

1624
01:58:26,279 --> 01:58:29,800
I'm very much a Hegelian. I think Urson Old was

1625
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:35,920
the most profound historical thinker and a writer of the

1626
01:58:35,960 --> 01:58:41,479
twentieth century. But the way I understand German idealism is

1627
01:58:43,079 --> 01:58:49,359
it's people who deal in and studies the consciousness and

1628
01:58:49,479 --> 01:58:55,159
things will be familiar with the anthropic principle. This is

1629
01:58:55,239 --> 01:59:02,680
extraordinarily complicated, Okay, on like its own terms. But we

1630
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:07,239
can't talk about political realities without talking about the events

1631
01:59:07,279 --> 01:59:11,000
within within the human mind. Okay, It's not like there's

1632
01:59:11,039 --> 01:59:17,359
some it's not like some actual political reality remote from

1633
01:59:18,479 --> 01:59:24,640
human psychology that is existing outside of our purview or something. Okay,

1634
01:59:25,159 --> 01:59:29,479
we're not We're not talking about astronomical phenomenon, talking about

1635
01:59:30,479 --> 01:59:36,159
you know, events of of of of a natural scientific

1636
01:59:36,600 --> 01:59:45,680
you know nature. Obviously, you know, so that renders that

1637
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:49,680
that that that renders the study of of of political

1638
01:59:50,479 --> 01:59:55,119
philosophy unique, Okay, because you can't you can't. You can't

1639
01:59:55,199 --> 01:59:59,960
do away with with mind as a prime move on. Okay,

1640
02:00:00,119 --> 02:00:03,359
even if you reject the postulates of somebody like Noldy

1641
02:00:04,079 --> 02:00:06,680
and it come bat this again and again. All right,

1642
02:00:08,319 --> 02:00:13,479
But it's also to understand the entirety of the war.

1643
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:17,520
Speaker 1: You know, this.

1644
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:24,520
Speaker 2: Zeitgeist was the cause of the war, okay. And there

1645
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:30,199
was obviously like concrete variables you know, relating to things

1646
02:00:30,239 --> 02:00:35,600
like war technology and capabilities they're in that upset balances

1647
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:39,399
of power that basically been constants in sixteen forty eight

1648
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:45,319
or so. There's economic realities that you know, affected and

1649
02:00:45,399 --> 02:00:49,800
impacted the ability to manage populations at scale that in turn,

1650
02:00:52,319 --> 02:00:55,520
you know, we're decisive and as regards you know, the

1651
02:00:55,600 --> 02:01:01,399
capacity to mobilize those aforementioned populations, which in turn, you know,

1652
02:01:02,399 --> 02:01:09,119
had a tremendous impact on the perception of states engaged

1653
02:01:09,119 --> 02:01:13,800
in a hard power competition. That goes without saying, but

1654
02:01:14,399 --> 02:01:18,000
all of these things it key points the decision as

1655
02:01:18,039 --> 02:01:23,600
well as in terms of broad conceptual horizon of what

1656
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:30,359
the end game of these political ambitions were you can

1657
02:01:30,399 --> 02:01:36,039
only understood in terms of the Zeitgeist and the way

1658
02:01:36,159 --> 02:01:39,960
that practical transcendence was changing the way humans live their

1659
02:01:40,079 --> 02:01:43,840
lives and identify themselves and quite literally how they lived

1660
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:52,960
and died. Nobody was more insinuated into that Modelitia thought

1661
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:58,680
and Hadolf Hiller. Okay, I'm going to begin a series

1662
02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:02,479
on this book in the next week. This is an

1663
02:02:02,520 --> 02:02:05,800
incredibly ballsy book and it was kind of underneath the radar.

1664
02:02:06,479 --> 02:02:10,279
It's basically a breakdown of Hitler's second book, The Secret Book,

1665
02:02:13,159 --> 02:02:21,159
And what Sims emphasizes is that Hitler very well understood

1666
02:02:22,399 --> 02:02:26,800
the situation geostrategically as well as historically. And I've always

1667
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:30,479
made the point before that Hitler's primary op was Franklin Roosevelt,

1668
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:35,880
not Stalin. Sims hammers that point home absolutely, okay. And

1669
02:02:36,399 --> 02:02:39,800
in terms of Germany's mobilization paradigm, in terms of the

1670
02:02:39,880 --> 02:02:46,840
technologies Hitler emphasized in terms of his entire timetable, tactical

1671
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:53,720
and strategic from September ninety thirty nine until December nineteen

1672
02:02:53,760 --> 02:02:59,760
forty one, was oriented towards facilitating Germany's ability to defend

1673
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:03,600
it against a massive assault by the United States. That

1674
02:03:03,760 --> 02:03:06,840
can't be that can't be overemphasized. Anybody who denies it

1675
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:12,520
is not in the game. However, what was happening to

1676
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:19,520
European peoples and what was threatening to render the culture

1677
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:28,319
extinct was uh, what was? What was? What was was

1678
02:03:28,439 --> 02:03:41,399
uh was purely conceptual, okay, and it's uh, it's the

1679
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:49,359
uh sphare punkd of that devastating idea or psychological tendency.

1680
02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:54,600
Was was Bolshevism. You know, Bolshevism wasn't just a way

1681
02:03:54,680 --> 02:03:58,439
of ordering labor. You know, it wasn't just uh, a

1682
02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:02,800
matter of depriving people of of certain freedoms you know

1683
02:04:02,840 --> 02:04:05,560
that they become habituated to do. It wasn't just a

1684
02:04:05,680 --> 02:04:14,439
question of breaking down traditional modalities of order, you know,

1685
02:04:15,079 --> 02:04:17,600
whether we're talking about you know, within the family unit,

1686
02:04:18,600 --> 02:04:21,000
or you know, in terms of how you know, the

1687
02:04:21,479 --> 02:04:25,159
races or ethnic populations relate to one another, or the

1688
02:04:25,239 --> 02:04:27,279
way you know, the sex is you know, kind of

1689
02:04:27,880 --> 02:04:35,039
relate to one another in as regards you know, duties

1690
02:04:35,079 --> 02:04:39,800
and responsibilities and things, and in ontological terms, it was

1691
02:04:40,399 --> 02:04:44,279
it was sharing the bases of of of of identity,

1692
02:04:45,039 --> 02:04:49,960
and when you remove people from any identitarian pole stars

1693
02:04:50,319 --> 02:04:53,479
when you literally rip them out of history, they're no

1694
02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:56,319
longer living as human beings in basic terms. Okay. And

1695
02:04:56,399 --> 02:05:01,039
despite what people claim, and SEMs emphasizes this too, Hitler

1696
02:05:01,079 --> 02:05:04,479
did not claim that Europeans or some master race. Quite

1697
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:10,119
the contrary. Hitler said Germany's rachel stock has precipitously declined

1698
02:05:11,079 --> 02:05:13,279
since the Thirty Years War. He looked at that as

1699
02:05:13,319 --> 02:05:17,680
the sharing event, okay, that Germany never really recovered from.

1700
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:21,439
He said that the best European stock was in England,

1701
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:25,119
and their leadership cast basically was able to dominate a

1702
02:05:25,159 --> 02:05:27,800
good portion of the planet as well as preside over

1703
02:05:28,119 --> 02:05:31,760
a divided society that had no kind of like organic

1704
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:35,720
like national underpinning, you know. And they managed to do

1705
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:43,199
this with like a combination of of tremendous foresight, you know,

1706
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:48,880
on unrestrained ruthlessness, and you know, an ability to sort

1707
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:58,000
of manipulate subjugated cultures in a way that incentivized you know, cooperation,

1708
02:05:58,279 --> 02:06:03,039
but also quite literally you know, rendering like the best

1709
02:06:03,119 --> 02:06:09,760
that those cultures could provide to this you know, imperial whole. Okay.

1710
02:06:10,359 --> 02:06:13,960
Hitler further said that the best European stock had emigrated

1711
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:18,279
to America, you know, so Hitler's like, we're basically left

1712
02:06:18,479 --> 02:06:22,000
like this kind of like shattered remnant of what's what

1713
02:06:22,199 --> 02:06:26,880
was potentially you know, like a like like a master race. Okay,

1714
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:34,199
and thus it was all the more critical. Germany would

1715
02:06:34,239 --> 02:06:44,319
like literally die from this onslaught of of of suicidal

1716
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:47,880
for lack of a better way to characterize it. Okay.

1717
02:06:49,880 --> 02:06:55,840
Now this wasn't just like Hitler actually believed this. Okay,

1718
02:06:57,439 --> 02:07:00,319
this wasn't I mean, this wasn't just you know, stuff

1719
02:07:00,359 --> 02:07:04,079
fit for the bully pulpit, or you know, before the

1720
02:07:04,159 --> 02:07:09,600
national social has had anything approaching a bully pulpit. This

1721
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:14,239
wasn't just you know, these weren't just like scare concepts

1722
02:07:14,359 --> 02:07:18,520
or or something a nightmare scenario to to bring ignorant

1723
02:07:18,560 --> 02:07:20,560
people the polls out of fear or something like that.

1724
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:27,359
The degree in which communism in practice, like literally the

1725
02:07:27,479 --> 02:07:33,840
practice of communism marsis Leninism. It can only it can

1726
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:41,000
only exist, let aloning door and perpetuate itself if it

1727
02:07:41,119 --> 02:07:49,319
annihilates all competing conceptual horizons. You've got to deprive people

1728
02:07:49,359 --> 02:07:56,119
of the ability to conceptualize some alternative ontology. Okay, there's

1729
02:07:56,159 --> 02:08:00,359
no other ideology like that. As long as it's miss laced.

1730
02:08:00,439 --> 02:08:06,439
When we talked about an earlier episode, this kind of

1731
02:08:06,479 --> 02:08:11,600
a Simpleton's paradigm that's fromoted during the Cold War, of Oh,

1732
02:08:11,720 --> 02:08:16,840
there's totalitarianism and then there's democracy. Something like Franco Spain

1733
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,560
had nothing in common with the Soviet Union, a revolutionary

1734
02:08:19,600 --> 02:08:24,119
communsm generally, nor did you know some some tinpot dictatorship

1735
02:08:25,199 --> 02:08:30,840
in the Third World regimes like that forcing compliance or

1736
02:08:30,960 --> 02:08:36,880
enforcing supervisial compliance, you know, by by use of the

1737
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:42,319
penal apparatus or or some or or some kind of

1738
02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:50,119
you know, use of military force as an extra judicial

1739
02:08:50,239 --> 02:08:54,600
means of punishing people. And you know, as a spectacle

1740
02:08:56,279 --> 02:08:59,560
that communism is not interested in that for its own terms.

1741
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:04,479
One of the things I think in some ways is

1742
02:09:04,560 --> 02:09:09,680
the very overrated writer but or Well captured the true

1743
02:09:09,840 --> 02:09:16,079
essence of Marsus Leninism in nineteen eighty four. And that's

1744
02:09:16,119 --> 02:09:19,000
exactly what the book's about. It's not about totalitarianism or

1745
02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:23,600
fascism or government generally. It is about Marcus Leninism. What

1746
02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:27,439
O'Brien says, I need you to love a big brother.

1747
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:32,279
I don't you know. I'm not interested in super visual compliance.

1748
02:09:32,520 --> 02:09:35,640
I'm not interested in forcing you to do things. You know,

1749
02:09:36,000 --> 02:09:40,319
in fact, quite the contrary, you know, I need you

1750
02:09:40,399 --> 02:09:43,279
to not be able to conceive of anything other than

1751
02:09:45,119 --> 02:09:50,359
prostrating yourself in kind of like odd and terrified reverence

1752
02:09:51,359 --> 02:09:57,000
of this megalithic state. You know, And not only do

1753
02:09:57,119 --> 02:10:00,239
you not, you know, the reason why you don't resist

1754
02:10:00,359 --> 02:10:03,000
it isn't out of terror. It's because you can't even

1755
02:10:03,039 --> 02:10:09,920
conceptualize resisting it. It's like resisting God. Okay, and iably

1756
02:10:09,960 --> 02:10:17,960
the best example of this was in Romania immediately after

1757
02:10:18,039 --> 02:10:24,159
the war. There's I can't remember his name now, but

1758
02:10:24,520 --> 02:10:29,000
there was a Romanian Orthodox priest who when somebody has

1759
02:10:29,039 --> 02:10:33,479
made a saint, are they beatified? Is that the term? Okay,

1760
02:10:33,680 --> 02:10:39,760
I believe it was beatified? Yeah, for his resistance the communists.

1761
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:43,880
But uh, there was this what came even known is

1762
02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:48,239
uh the poteste e butchering that pronunciation again, forgive me

1763
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:54,920
the Potetsi prison experiments. Okay, Ptetsi prison Now. Romania is

1764
02:10:54,960 --> 02:11:01,800
a fascinating example because it's usc was was was he

1765
02:11:01,920 --> 02:11:04,239
was viewed kind of in the west of this bizarre

1766
02:11:04,279 --> 02:11:08,640
eccentric obviously, you know, him and his wife were were

1767
02:11:08,760 --> 02:11:12,680
nearly executed on on live television and that was shocking.

1768
02:11:13,000 --> 02:11:14,520
I think we've talked about before, you know, as a

1769
02:11:14,600 --> 02:11:17,560
teenager seeing then on this. This was long before a

1770
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:21,119
live league and anything like three guys one hammer or

1771
02:11:21,119 --> 02:11:24,119
any of this horrible stuff that you can anybody can

1772
02:11:24,159 --> 02:11:27,159
see on the internet. And but I mean, obviously it's

1773
02:11:27,199 --> 02:11:32,560
the only violent overthrow of of of an East Block regime.

1774
02:11:32,680 --> 02:11:37,680
But you know, for all pradical purposes, Romania had seceded

1775
02:11:37,720 --> 02:11:42,800
from Warsaw Pact. You know, Chusysku himself, he negotiated with

1776
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:48,560
Kennedy to remove Romania from the SIOP target list and

1777
02:11:48,840 --> 02:11:55,960
a nuclear war. But in terms of that, despite kind

1778
02:11:55,960 --> 02:12:00,560
of like seceding entirely from Veldt politique, were Mania kind

1779
02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:07,239
of perfected Mars's Leninism as regardless internal situation. I mean,

1780
02:12:07,319 --> 02:12:09,399
purists will say, well, it was a personality cult, but

1781
02:12:10,399 --> 02:12:16,479
that's not what I'm talking about. Most of the detainees

1782
02:12:16,640 --> 02:12:21,479
at the Poteste prison were men wud served in the

1783
02:12:21,520 --> 02:12:29,399
Iron Guard, you know, they were they were you know

1784
02:12:29,560 --> 02:12:35,600
uh os front veterans who you know, we're company level officers,

1785
02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:40,199
are higher. They were priests who hadn't done anything wrong.

1786
02:12:40,760 --> 02:12:47,079
I mean, even of a you know, political nature and

1787
02:12:48,319 --> 02:12:55,479
they were psychologically tortured. According to this phase paradigm, the

1788
02:12:55,600 --> 02:13:01,640
first phase would involved this kind of like endless interrogation

1789
02:13:02,199 --> 02:13:08,520
over days and weeks, with torture liberally applied under the

1790
02:13:08,600 --> 02:13:14,920
auspices of revealing intimate details. This was called external unmasking.

1791
02:13:15,720 --> 02:13:19,760
But the interrogators, I mean, they obviously that any any

1792
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:24,079
kind of anything relating to somebody's intimate, moral, or or

1793
02:13:24,199 --> 02:13:28,520
sexual behavior, they'd find that valuable to exploit against them.

1794
02:13:29,239 --> 02:13:33,399
But this wasn't this wasn't the purpose of external unmasking.

1795
02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:37,159
They'd forced people to do things like, you know, they'd say,

1796
02:13:37,199 --> 02:13:38,600
you know, it's come to our attention that you know,

1797
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:40,760
like your father was actually like it like a trader,

1798
02:13:41,319 --> 02:13:43,399
you know, and or like you know, it's it's you

1799
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:45,640
you were actually born at Bastard, you know, and then

1800
02:13:45,720 --> 02:13:47,800
we we've we've discovered this, or like you know, your

1801
02:13:48,079 --> 02:13:50,359
your sister was a prostitute, you know, and and she

1802
02:13:50,479 --> 02:13:53,199
had many men, you know, and we we we we've

1803
02:13:53,239 --> 02:13:55,439
talked to men who who you know, who visited her

1804
02:13:55,479 --> 02:13:59,319
and and in relations with her for money, and they'd

1805
02:13:59,359 --> 02:14:01,520
insist on it over and over and over and over again,

1806
02:14:02,439 --> 02:14:07,319
and you know, they torture people into signing confessions and

1807
02:14:07,359 --> 02:14:10,840
stuff that seems apparently meaningless from a political perspective, but

1808
02:14:13,680 --> 02:14:22,520
victims subsequently attested that you start losing touch of reality

1809
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:25,680
in these conditions and you start wondering, you know, like

1810
02:14:25,960 --> 02:14:28,680
is that actually true? You know what I mean, I'm

1811
02:14:28,720 --> 02:14:30,560
sure people will say, like, well that that would never

1812
02:14:30,640 --> 02:14:34,880
happen to me. Very very strange things happen when people

1813
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:38,359
are incarcerated, and add to that, literal court.

1814
02:14:39,079 --> 02:14:43,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't even have to be incarceration. I've witnessed people

1815
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:49,279
in my own life who went to group therapy started

1816
02:14:49,720 --> 02:14:55,079
started adopting stories that they heard other people tell as

1817
02:14:55,159 --> 02:14:56,000
their own.

1818
02:14:56,680 --> 02:15:00,199
Speaker 2: And they probably they believe it. Yeah, of it.

1819
02:15:00,359 --> 02:15:04,359
Speaker 1: It's the human mind. Is I don't know what that is.

1820
02:15:05,199 --> 02:15:08,560
It's hard for me to uh to understand, to understand that,

1821
02:15:08,760 --> 02:15:09,720
but I've seen it.

1822
02:15:10,560 --> 02:15:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I mean you're a worldly guy, and

1823
02:15:13,319 --> 02:15:16,920
I mean obviously, I mean, frankly, you spend a fair

1824
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:21,359
amount of time with with with matters of the human

1825
02:15:21,399 --> 02:15:27,880
psyche because it relates to you know what, our mutual

1826
02:15:28,479 --> 02:15:33,199
emphasies and things. But yeah, it's you know, the second

1827
02:15:33,319 --> 02:15:39,039
the second phase. It was called uh like internal unmasking.

1828
02:15:40,560 --> 02:15:49,520
Now this would this was us at least uhh nominally

1829
02:15:51,800 --> 02:15:56,279
it was uh the torture slash interrogator. He'd demand to

1830
02:15:56,399 --> 02:16:02,119
know what guards or trustees or other interrogators had been

1831
02:16:02,239 --> 02:16:04,920
lenient with the subject. So basically this was you know

1832
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:07,239
and say like, you know, basically like you know, I

1833
02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:12,920
now in this perverse way, you know, it's it's a

1834
02:16:12,960 --> 02:16:16,359
way of trying to trying to literally create like Stockholm syndrome,

1835
02:16:17,039 --> 02:16:24,000
or to generate those sorts of misplaced sympathies in the

1836
02:16:24,199 --> 02:16:30,319
mind of the victim, you know. Uh, So it came

1837
02:16:30,439 --> 02:16:36,799
to the uh, you know, the victim in some cases

1838
02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:41,799
begin to look at his torture is truly benevolent, you know,

1839
02:16:41,920 --> 02:16:45,280
because even if it was totally a charade, you know,

1840
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:50,479
the fact that he would disclose, you know, persons who'd

1841
02:16:50,520 --> 02:16:54,200
shown him leniency, and then he'd be rewarded with you know,

1842
02:16:54,719 --> 02:16:57,319
maybe if he'd been subjected to a starvation diet, he'd

1843
02:16:57,360 --> 02:17:00,159
be rewarded with food or something or even just you know,

1844
02:17:00,239 --> 02:17:04,840
the appearance of of of affection like perversa. It sounds

1845
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:12,239
you know, people do need affection or or approval in

1846
02:17:12,360 --> 02:17:18,879
some basic sense, and somebody who's somebody who's been utterly destroyed,

1847
02:17:18,879 --> 02:17:25,000
whose internal constitution has been destroyed by a deliberate and purposeful,

1848
02:17:26,520 --> 02:17:30,399
you know, regime of torture, even even even the approval

1849
02:17:30,520 --> 02:17:34,399
of of their torture, you know, who's cast himself in

1850
02:17:34,840 --> 02:17:37,280
in some kind of fatherly roll. You know. You see

1851
02:17:37,360 --> 02:17:39,159
you see the police do this too, and it's been

1852
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:42,440
sued to the police interrogation. Obviously they it's not nearly

1853
02:17:42,520 --> 02:17:47,600
this extreme, okay, but that's that's basically what good cop,

1854
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:50,520
bad cop is, and some very dumb down and obviously

1855
02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:57,840
much less insidious and and and literally figuraibly violent the

1856
02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:06,239
sense it's the uh, the third stage was h in

1857
02:18:06,280 --> 02:18:11,440
the third phase, it was this. It was just it

1858
02:18:11,520 --> 02:18:15,920
was this kind of public humiliation ritual. If the person

1859
02:18:16,200 --> 02:18:20,520
was uh, you know, if they were if they were

1860
02:18:20,559 --> 02:18:26,120
a priest or a or a a lay person in

1861
02:18:26,159 --> 02:18:29,120
the other US church, you know, the interrogator would do

1862
02:18:29,200 --> 02:18:31,399
something like you know, laying out a crucifix and like

1863
02:18:31,440 --> 02:18:34,719
demanding the urinate on it. You know, if it was

1864
02:18:34,719 --> 02:18:37,680
a political partisan or like a former like Hrmacht officer

1865
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:43,600
or Iron Guard revolutionary, you know, they might like force

1866
02:18:43,719 --> 02:18:46,399
him to like like drink urine or like literally like

1867
02:18:46,520 --> 02:18:49,360
lick the boots of his interrogator or something, or like

1868
02:18:49,520 --> 02:18:52,479
you know, claim to have engaged in in like disgusting

1869
02:18:52,559 --> 02:18:58,159
sexual acts or something, you know, in this like Michael

1870
02:18:58,239 --> 02:19:03,600
Joanes not specifically about this in this context, but you know,

1871
02:19:03,639 --> 02:19:08,799
he's talked about how part of the subtext of the

1872
02:19:08,920 --> 02:19:13,079
kind of like normalization of pornography is uh, the kind

1873
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:15,559
of like assault the intimate world core of the person,

1874
02:19:16,760 --> 02:19:19,959
you know, and and and and and rip away any

1875
02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:25,239
any kind of private and any kind of truly like

1876
02:19:25,360 --> 02:19:29,959
private boundaries they have, you know, and that that's a

1877
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:35,680
real thing too, you know, but this was you know,

1878
02:19:35,799 --> 02:19:40,120
these uh people were people were permanently and profoundly damaged

1879
02:19:40,159 --> 02:19:42,600
by this. I mean beyond the obvious. I mean, like

1880
02:19:42,680 --> 02:19:45,719
he said, you don't the things people think they take

1881
02:19:45,799 --> 02:19:49,360
for granted, they they they no longer can like they're

1882
02:19:49,399 --> 02:19:52,600
not they'y're not capable of it. I'm not talking about

1883
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:56,719
and I'm not talking about like trust in in authority

1884
02:19:56,840 --> 02:19:59,879
and in some basic way, I mean like they're not

1885
02:20:00,959 --> 02:20:04,319
fully human anymore. There's no photo on their own obviously,

1886
02:20:04,520 --> 02:20:08,959
but it this guy, Ned Robert Graves is you know,

1887
02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:13,879
an english Man of letters type of you know, like

1888
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:18,600
a great war veteran. His memoir was called Goodbye to

1889
02:20:18,680 --> 02:20:27,200
All that. Robert Conquest cited him and for comparative purposes

1890
02:20:27,319 --> 02:20:32,639
in his in his book on a Communist Megaside, Graves

1891
02:20:32,719 --> 02:20:36,200
was talking about the experience at the front, okay, during

1892
02:20:36,239 --> 02:20:42,760
World War One, and he said that, he said, Graves

1893
02:20:42,760 --> 02:20:45,360
said that like the squalor and danger of the front lines,

1894
02:20:45,399 --> 02:20:49,360
being under constant bombardment, you know, like living in filth.

1895
02:20:50,600 --> 02:20:53,959
He said that, like young officers, he said, they said,

1896
02:20:54,120 --> 02:20:56,719
after after several weeks, they begin to deteriorate a little.

1897
02:20:57,479 --> 02:21:00,600
He's like, after six months, he's like most men, we're

1898
02:21:00,680 --> 02:21:05,079
basically all right. But they were starting to show cracks, okay,

1899
02:21:05,719 --> 02:21:08,799
said after a nine or ten months, these guys became

1900
02:21:08,840 --> 02:21:12,200
a drag on fellow officers and NCOs. You know, like

1901
02:21:12,280 --> 02:21:17,239
they were no longer thinking clearly, you know, they they

1902
02:21:19,479 --> 02:21:26,399
they'd become desocialized owing to constant anxiety. You know, he'd say,

1903
02:21:26,440 --> 02:21:30,799
after a year or fifteen months to continuous service, he said,

1904
02:21:30,840 --> 02:21:37,079
even like the most robust and healthy junior officer would

1905
02:21:37,120 --> 02:21:39,879
basically be useless. You know, he was no longer fit

1906
02:21:39,959 --> 02:21:45,879
for command, you know, at best, you know, oh it

1907
02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:49,360
was experience and whatnot. You know, if he still had

1908
02:21:49,399 --> 02:21:55,440
the nerve and the gumption for direct action, you know,

1909
02:21:56,639 --> 02:21:58,559
he might be able to utilize and like the equivalent

1910
02:21:58,559 --> 02:22:04,120
of stormtrooper role, but in a command role. Not not

1911
02:22:04,239 --> 02:22:10,440
even close, he said. The real tragedy, though, he said,

1912
02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:13,200
guys over the age about thirty or thirty five, and

1913
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:17,879
especially over forty. He said that these guys had less resistance,

1914
02:22:18,959 --> 02:22:23,239
you know, and in his estimation, it's because they had,

1915
02:22:24,559 --> 02:22:28,159
you know, decades of normal life to compare their current situation, dude,

1916
02:22:28,559 --> 02:22:31,319
he said. Officers over forty, he said that the six

1917
02:22:31,399 --> 02:22:36,319
months more almost unfamily became you know, obvious alcoholics. You know,

1918
02:22:38,120 --> 02:22:40,760
they'd only be able to you know, assuming they've survived

1919
02:22:41,079 --> 02:22:46,799
multiple assault operations. They could only they could only function

1920
02:22:46,879 --> 02:22:51,079
if they were totally drunk. He said that they started

1921
02:22:51,120 --> 02:22:54,360
seeming you know, complete like he said, they started seeming literally,

1922
02:22:56,239 --> 02:22:58,079
you know, like in a state of shock at all times.

1923
02:22:58,799 --> 02:23:00,399
You know. He said, some of them lost their ability

1924
02:23:00,440 --> 02:23:03,639
to communicate in basic terms, like their ability to their

1925
02:23:03,719 --> 02:23:10,719
command of language had left them, you know. And Conquest

1926
02:23:10,840 --> 02:23:17,200
says that something that developed in Soviet society, especially after

1927
02:23:17,239 --> 02:23:22,040
about nineteen thirty six to thirty eight, about ninety thirty six,

1928
02:23:22,079 --> 02:23:24,920
ninety thirty eight onwards until about nineteen fifty seven. He

1929
02:23:24,959 --> 02:23:28,239
said it was something he said, it was something completely comparable,

1930
02:23:28,639 --> 02:23:32,239
particularly guys who were in roles that were somewhat coveted

1931
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:35,719
where they were in contact with commissars at all times

1932
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:39,559
and responsible for their people, but they weren't protected by

1933
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:44,399
you know, the lar guests or the patronage of party men.

1934
02:23:44,559 --> 02:23:45,959
Like a good example would be, you know, like a

1935
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:48,680
doctor at a hospital, you know who like like a

1936
02:23:48,760 --> 02:23:51,959
surgeon who was responsible for you know, more junior doctors

1937
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:55,360
and nurses obviously, or like a professor of geology, you know,

1938
02:23:55,520 --> 02:23:56,920
or like a guy who worked at one of the

1939
02:23:57,000 --> 02:23:59,959
design bureaus, you know, like over seeing other engineers. You know.

1940
02:24:00,479 --> 02:24:05,559
He'd be under constant pressure of the commissars. You know

1941
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:08,040
he is, and so it is, his whole family would

1942
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:11,440
constantly be under surveillance. He'd be subjected to things like

1943
02:24:12,120 --> 02:24:15,319
you know, when people he worked closely with or taken

1944
02:24:15,360 --> 02:24:20,600
away and either executed summarily or sentenced to sentenced to

1945
02:24:20,680 --> 02:24:24,760
the death camp system. He'd be ordered he'd be directed

1946
02:24:24,799 --> 02:24:27,000
to sign a statement saying that he fully approved of

1947
02:24:27,079 --> 02:24:31,040
these measures. Against people who were engaged in countervolutionary activities,

1948
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:35,000
regardless of his personal feelings about them. And like, over time,

1949
02:24:35,559 --> 02:24:40,760
this just broke people down, you know, and the workers

1950
02:24:40,799 --> 02:24:42,959
and pet the workers and peasants who supposed that the

1951
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:51,959
Soviet state was directly was was was oriented towards, you know,

1952
02:24:52,120 --> 02:24:58,520
like elevating you know, these people, a huge amount of them,

1953
02:24:58,520 --> 02:24:59,959
and we'll get in some of these figures in a minute,

1954
02:25:01,120 --> 02:25:05,040
had cycled through the forced labor system and they and

1955
02:25:05,079 --> 02:25:07,760
they begin acting, They just they began behaving like convicts,

1956
02:25:08,440 --> 02:25:10,639
you know, in all in all the pathological ways that

1957
02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:12,920
you know people who are in and out of the

1958
02:25:12,920 --> 02:25:17,040
prison system do you know, And even if they didn't

1959
02:25:17,120 --> 02:25:21,079
have you know, pathologies going in despite being branded as criminals,

1960
02:25:21,120 --> 02:25:26,920
they certainly had them when they were released. And that's

1961
02:25:27,000 --> 02:25:31,200
what I mean, that's what's unique about Sovietism, and that's

1962
02:25:31,200 --> 02:25:36,280
what's unique about communism, you know. And the people who

1963
02:25:37,360 --> 02:25:39,239
I mean, it'd be easy for it it's either people

1964
02:25:39,239 --> 02:25:41,680
to say like, oh, well, that's their own fault. You know,

1965
02:25:41,719 --> 02:25:45,360
why weren't their cadres of people who who were who

1966
02:25:45,399 --> 02:25:49,879
were cultivating resistance to this, to this this regime, they

1967
02:25:49,920 --> 02:25:56,479
were all dead. They were slaughtered. The Soviets slaughtered ten

1968
02:25:56,600 --> 02:26:01,079
million people by the time by by, you know, before

1969
02:26:01,120 --> 02:26:03,760
a shot was fired in the World War, you know,

1970
02:26:03,799 --> 02:26:07,719
And that's nobody's all point. That people who were capable

1971
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:17,520
of of harboring a conceptual vista of some alternative system.

1972
02:26:19,079 --> 02:26:22,920
They they they were, they were They were killed categorically

1973
02:26:23,360 --> 02:26:30,719
regardless of age, sex, overall health, national origin, because they

1974
02:26:30,760 --> 02:26:33,079
were the they were the standard. Even if they weren't

1975
02:26:33,079 --> 02:26:36,280
the standard bearers of the enemy idea, you know, they

1976
02:26:37,200 --> 02:26:39,239
they they weren't malleable in the way that they needed

1977
02:26:39,280 --> 02:26:42,200
to be. You know, the Khmarra rouge actually perfected this.

1978
02:26:42,840 --> 02:26:50,600
I think year zero is you know, left revisionists who

1979
02:26:51,559 --> 02:26:58,559
like Saratra, who actually understood Marci's Leninism. You know, they

1980
02:26:58,600 --> 02:27:04,440
were constantly trying to extricate the commute riage experience from

1981
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:10,200
revolutionary communism as like a postulant to itself. This is

1982
02:27:10,280 --> 02:27:13,879
some bizarre outlier. This is an example of oriental barbarism.

1983
02:27:14,719 --> 02:27:18,319
You know, this has nothing to do with with with

1984
02:27:18,479 --> 02:27:21,680
with rational state behavior. You know, there's nothing being extra

1985
02:27:21,719 --> 02:27:24,200
away from that. He knew that that was not true, Okay,

1986
02:27:26,319 --> 02:27:30,959
aside from the kind of atavistic mythologies that you know,

1987
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:34,319
the Khmer Rouge threw in to kind of woo the

1988
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:41,000
the peasantry towards their perspective and you know, and whatever,

1989
02:27:41,280 --> 02:27:46,360
like racial mythologies that were emphasized when they were fighting

1990
02:27:46,440 --> 02:27:52,399
the Vietnamese like that. Notwithstanding, Paul Pott was actually a

1991
02:27:52,479 --> 02:27:58,200
very learned man and what he aside from the fact

1992
02:27:58,239 --> 02:28:06,680
that you know, Cambodia Democratic Campuccia, as it was so dubbed,

1993
02:28:06,719 --> 02:28:09,120
it was a was a backwater that was devoid of

1994
02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:12,959
the prayer, was an industry to facilitate, you know, the

1995
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:16,639
realization of true communism. And in political terms, he was

1996
02:28:16,680 --> 02:28:21,799
absolutely a pure communist and that's what's required in order

1997
02:28:21,840 --> 02:28:27,840
to facilitate its realization that it's not an outlier in

1998
02:28:27,879 --> 02:28:38,399
the least, and people who are honest, like orthodox Marxists

1999
02:28:39,159 --> 02:28:46,520
who remained in you know, Moscow adjacent after the after

2000
02:28:46,680 --> 02:28:51,920
you know, the ninety sixty schism. They it's subtle, but

2001
02:28:52,000 --> 02:28:54,680
it's there, like they acknowledge that I find this fascinating,

2002
02:28:55,680 --> 02:28:58,440
but not for the reason something like the think, no,

2003
02:28:58,639 --> 02:29:01,520
not merely sucking wave it around as some you know,

2004
02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:05,280
gotcha like I obviously it's like grotesque people think that way,

2005
02:29:05,399 --> 02:29:12,600
but it's it's entirely consistent with uh, the overall paradig

2006
02:29:12,639 --> 02:29:18,360
I mean, it would be dishonest for anyone who describes

2007
02:29:18,479 --> 02:29:27,360
that perspective to claim otherwise. But you know, the end

2008
02:29:27,440 --> 02:29:32,239
result as all these points too, when you're talking about

2009
02:29:32,280 --> 02:29:38,680
these monumental ideas, you know, there you can just look

2010
02:29:38,719 --> 02:29:41,959
at them as historical contingencies. You know, you've got to

2011
02:29:41,959 --> 02:29:45,079
look at them as not just as as as as

2012
02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:52,479
causal as ultimate causal variables in and of themselves, but

2013
02:29:52,959 --> 02:30:03,079
as phenomena that uh, it's that, but phenomena that endure

2014
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:10,280
until their full realization or until they are annihilated because

2015
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:15,680
the the because the bearers of the idea are annihilated.

2016
02:30:15,799 --> 02:30:21,079
I mentioned material of it. The purpose of communism is

2017
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:26,879
to realize communism. It's not just to alleviate tensions inherent

2018
02:30:27,000 --> 02:30:34,200
to you know, opposing classes amidst historically he wal, It's

2019
02:30:34,239 --> 02:30:37,479
not just a way to you know, kind of placate

2020
02:30:37,879 --> 02:30:42,479
a radicalized proletariat, you know, in the short term and

2021
02:30:43,799 --> 02:30:48,799
until you know, some sort of new structure that has

2022
02:30:48,840 --> 02:30:51,639
more equitable outcomes can be realized. Like the point of

2023
02:30:51,680 --> 02:30:56,479
it quite literally is it's it's self contained realization. And

2024
02:30:57,920 --> 02:31:03,440
the end result of the Communist center prizes is the

2025
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:09,879
eradication of culture. And that was the great horror in

2026
02:31:09,959 --> 02:31:13,959
the minds of all who opposed it. And you know,

2027
02:31:14,040 --> 02:31:17,600
like I said, one of the only meaningful things in

2028
02:31:17,680 --> 02:31:21,239
absolute terms you can take from my comf is when

2029
02:31:21,319 --> 02:31:25,200
Hitler says that a Bolshevis planet is a plan without culture,

2030
02:31:25,639 --> 02:31:30,000
where all men you know, live basically as basically as

2031
02:31:30,040 --> 02:31:32,879
animals with the power of speech. You know, and the

2032
02:31:33,079 --> 02:31:37,239
or the earth is uh the the the earth is

2033
02:31:37,920 --> 02:31:43,680
basically this, you know, this ball of mud like spinning

2034
02:31:43,719 --> 02:31:47,600
through the void, with no with no with no higher life.

2035
02:31:48,319 --> 02:31:53,040
You know, everything you associate with culture, the from the

2036
02:31:53,079 --> 02:31:56,600
comparatively prosaic is the most profound no longer exists. You know,

2037
02:31:57,120 --> 02:32:01,840
it's it's it's the world as labor. You know, there

2038
02:32:01,920 --> 02:32:05,319
is no past, there's no future, there's only the present.

2039
02:32:05,879 --> 02:32:09,719
And you know the realization of work quotas or you know,

2040
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:17,079
the homogenization of life such that it's rendered indistinguishable. But

2041
02:32:17,319 --> 02:32:21,879
for you know geographic location, which anymore has no meaning

2042
02:32:21,920 --> 02:32:26,159
other than you know, the signature on a map. And

2043
02:32:30,200 --> 02:32:34,760
that much much as people might have misanthropic fantasies about

2044
02:32:34,920 --> 02:32:37,319
Earth without people. I think those are actually like some

2045
02:32:37,479 --> 02:32:41,159
corny show. Like decades ago, it was like it was

2046
02:32:41,239 --> 02:32:43,680
like Earth without people or like the world without man,

2047
02:32:44,200 --> 02:32:47,440
and it was I think it was not discovery or something.

2048
02:32:47,639 --> 02:32:53,159
I forget the tangent, and it was you know, there

2049
02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:58,639
was these like cgi rendered landscapes where uh, you know,

2050
02:32:58,760 --> 02:33:01,280
like skyscrapers are all over grown and and just like

2051
02:33:01,399 --> 02:33:03,680
animals or have free reign and there's no more man

2052
02:33:03,760 --> 02:33:08,920
to you know, corrupt like the pure sanity in nature

2053
02:33:09,040 --> 02:33:11,879
or something. But that you know, people have this idea

2054
02:33:12,000 --> 02:33:16,319
that somehow like without like the without without the human

2055
02:33:16,399 --> 02:33:19,479
mind to perceive things, that these things might may well

2056
02:33:19,520 --> 02:33:24,399
as not not exist. You know, I'm a sure go

2057
02:33:24,399 --> 02:33:27,040
without saying, but it's I think it's like the way

2058
02:33:27,079 --> 02:33:28,920
people like can imagine like what their own funeral would

2059
02:33:28,920 --> 02:33:32,239
look like because if they have some kind of some

2060
02:33:32,399 --> 02:33:34,760
kind of vantage point or something, you know, and and

2061
02:33:35,120 --> 02:33:38,200
and in the terms you would you know, as in

2062
02:33:39,559 --> 02:33:42,280
you know, and and as a as a living human

2063
02:33:42,360 --> 02:33:44,079
with you know, optic nerves and things.

2064
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:47,760
Speaker 1: But let mean you you said that the purpose of

2065
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:52,159
communism is its realization. What's the purpose of national socialism?

2066
02:33:55,479 --> 02:34:03,239
Speaker 2: The posterity of the of the voc and more immediately,

2067
02:34:04,840 --> 02:34:07,639
That's what I'm gonna get into when uh, this pod

2068
02:34:07,719 --> 02:34:14,520
series is gonna do the regeneration of the European form

2069
02:34:14,559 --> 02:34:19,079
of life to meet the challenges of the twenty first century,

2070
02:34:20,239 --> 02:34:29,680
you know too render its mentioned material competitive at least

2071
02:34:29,719 --> 02:34:36,479
able to survive onslaught by what Hitler identified as you know,

2072
02:34:36,559 --> 02:34:43,799
kind of like the nasc and Anglo Saxon hegemony or hegemon.

2073
02:34:46,479 --> 02:34:50,440
Hitler accurately. That's another thing about it about the same

2074
02:34:50,440 --> 02:34:56,000
as book that I think needs to be emphasized. Hitler

2075
02:34:56,120 --> 02:35:02,280
was incredibly and he he knew exactly what was underway

2076
02:35:02,360 --> 02:35:05,719
in terms of the strategic historical situation. And the second

2077
02:35:05,760 --> 02:35:10,360
book makes the point that America contains about fully fifty

2078
02:35:10,399 --> 02:35:14,000
percent of the world's like actual like capital and resources.

2079
02:35:14,680 --> 02:35:20,600
You know, he says that once fully mobilized America will

2080
02:35:20,639 --> 02:35:25,200
be unstoppable. He said, it will be unlike any hedgemond

2081
02:35:25,200 --> 02:35:28,559
in the world's ever seen. And he said that, you know,

2082
02:35:30,879 --> 02:35:39,200
unless unless some sort of total regeneration occurs in Europe.

2083
02:35:40,520 --> 02:35:43,520
He wasn't talking in some kind of strasserist notion of

2084
02:35:43,920 --> 02:35:46,399
you know, like the United States of Europe like literally

2085
02:35:46,559 --> 02:35:52,040
like a palogenetic revival of the race, you know, and

2086
02:35:52,120 --> 02:35:55,360
he had Hitler had no use for petted nationalism, but

2087
02:35:56,440 --> 02:36:00,040
his idea of a European superpower is very different. And

2088
02:36:00,120 --> 02:36:02,479
what people like Distress were suggested, is my point. But

2089
02:36:03,680 --> 02:36:07,639
he said that, you know, unless this happens, assuming that

2090
02:36:07,799 --> 02:36:12,840
assuming Germany could fend off a Soviet assault, which at

2091
02:36:13,000 --> 02:36:17,280
present then present being you know, nineteen thirty three, it

2092
02:36:17,479 --> 02:36:20,520
could not. But he said, even if it could, he

2093
02:36:20,639 --> 02:36:23,840
said that Europe would basically become, you know, the battleground

2094
02:36:23,879 --> 02:36:26,559
between the United States and the Soviet Union for world

2095
02:36:26,600 --> 02:36:29,920
of gemity, which is exactly what happened. And he said that,

2096
02:36:30,399 --> 02:36:32,920
you know, the danger of the Soviet Union is the

2097
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:35,680
danger that's always when presented by Europe, which is essentially

2098
02:36:35,959 --> 02:36:41,479
an indefensible peninsula, you know, populated by a world minority

2099
02:36:43,000 --> 02:36:51,159
of peoples facing uh without without any without any you know,

2100
02:36:51,200 --> 02:36:53,639
there's no Sahara desert in Europe. There's no sort of

2101
02:36:53,719 --> 02:37:01,159
like natural rampart. You know. They're the you know, the

2102
02:37:01,360 --> 02:37:08,159
the immediate physical threat the European civilization is the billion

2103
02:37:08,280 --> 02:37:12,360
strong hordes of the of the Barbarian East, you know.

2104
02:37:12,520 --> 02:37:17,799
But he said that this is you know, the uh,

2105
02:37:18,680 --> 02:37:23,799
the the graver like absolute like literally global threat is

2106
02:37:25,840 --> 02:37:31,719
is America, you know, because it's it's a complete because

2107
02:37:31,959 --> 02:37:36,639
it's completely it completely like neutralizes everything people had there

2108
02:37:36,680 --> 02:37:42,079
to be taken for granted about hard power and the

2109
02:37:42,239 --> 02:37:45,559
capacity to marshall capital and the service of hard power.

2110
02:37:47,239 --> 02:37:52,639
How he viewed the American people is nuanced and fascinatingly

2111
02:37:52,879 --> 02:37:57,799
and Sims gets into this too, despite this kind of

2112
02:37:57,879 --> 02:38:03,360
like like this liberal fixation with like, oh, Hitler was

2113
02:38:03,399 --> 02:38:06,559
a Confederate and he loved slavery and hated black people.

2114
02:38:07,120 --> 02:38:09,360
There said almost nothing about black people other than that.

2115
02:38:09,440 --> 02:38:14,920
He said that transplanting you know, one hundreds of thousands

2116
02:38:14,959 --> 02:38:18,559
of African slaves to the New World, he said, was

2117
02:38:20,840 --> 02:38:26,840
he said, was something that reminiscent of an artifact of

2118
02:38:26,879 --> 02:38:30,239
a barbaric civilization. And he said it was beneath America

2119
02:38:30,319 --> 02:38:36,239
to do that and totally unnecessary, you know. He admired

2120
02:38:36,280 --> 02:38:41,760
the kind of northern industrial might of the Union. He

2121
02:38:44,159 --> 02:38:51,120
said that, you know, the cream of German racial stock,

2122
02:38:52,120 --> 02:38:54,399
the tune of five point nine million people over a

2123
02:38:54,479 --> 02:38:58,840
few centuries, had emirrated to America. He's like these people

2124
02:38:58,920 --> 02:39:06,879
in the backbone of American power, you know. And he

2125
02:39:06,959 --> 02:39:09,200
said that, uh, you know, some of the best of

2126
02:39:11,360 --> 02:39:14,920
of a of the anglophone leadership cast has sort of

2127
02:39:14,959 --> 02:39:18,760
like assimilated them into their own ranks. Like he's basically

2128
02:39:18,799 --> 02:39:20,719
saying like this is this is a recipe for utterly

2129
02:39:20,840 --> 02:39:27,639
like unstoppable power and like full spectrum dominance like economic, military, cultural,

2130
02:39:28,840 --> 02:39:32,680
and every can seeable way, you know. But he said

2131
02:39:32,719 --> 02:39:36,520
that there's like an underlying rootlessness there that's ring which

2132
02:39:36,559 --> 02:39:42,680
been co opted, you know, by a Jewish modernist perspective.

2133
02:39:44,680 --> 02:39:47,799
This is different than the threat. It's different but related

2134
02:39:47,920 --> 02:39:53,680
in terms of a constellation of of of of Zeitgeist

2135
02:39:53,719 --> 02:39:58,440
related factors, like writ large, it's different than you know,

2136
02:39:58,719 --> 02:40:01,639
the Soviet threat, but it's it's derived from the same

2137
02:40:03,520 --> 02:40:09,239
it's derived from the same historical crisis. Okay. And he

2138
02:40:09,360 --> 02:40:11,200
makes the point in the second book that it's not

2139
02:40:11,360 --> 02:40:14,799
accidental that, you know, Americanism and Sovietism will like find

2140
02:40:14,879 --> 02:40:18,440
common cost for limited purposes because they're not actually manikey

2141
02:40:18,520 --> 02:40:23,239
in opposites. There's a there's irreconcilele differences between them, you know,

2142
02:40:23,319 --> 02:40:26,680
he said, giving conditions to parody, they destroy each other.

2143
02:40:27,520 --> 02:40:30,079
But but they're they're not like moratal enemies or something,

2144
02:40:30,520 --> 02:40:35,440
you know, in absolute terms. And but that's I didn't

2145
02:40:35,479 --> 02:40:37,840
mean to go so far like a field, but it's

2146
02:40:39,280 --> 02:40:43,600
the uh what I did want to get a little

2147
02:40:43,600 --> 02:40:46,559
bit into. When if I'm jumping around a bit, a

2148
02:40:46,639 --> 02:40:52,879
lot of people over uh over email and whatnot, they've

2149
02:40:52,879 --> 02:40:57,840
been asking in comparative terms about like to what degree

2150
02:41:00,079 --> 02:41:02,959
like the Soviet Union had like a camp system. And

2151
02:41:03,120 --> 02:41:06,440
I make the point and I'm we're lying on Robert

2152
02:41:06,520 --> 02:41:12,040
Conquest for this. The Soviets had a death camp system

2153
02:41:12,159 --> 02:41:18,440
rit large. Its purpose was to categorically exterminate people. There

2154
02:41:18,479 --> 02:41:23,120
were there were hundreds of these camps purpose towards that

2155
02:41:23,440 --> 02:41:31,559
end in the frozen you know, tundra of h what

2156
02:41:31,760 --> 02:41:35,440
was the Soviet Far East. This is the territory I

2157
02:41:35,520 --> 02:41:39,360
mean for people came to like geology and you know

2158
02:41:39,479 --> 02:41:42,200
that like or a science and stuff. I mean, this

2159
02:41:42,360 --> 02:41:47,520
is uh, this is literally you know, like the ice age,

2160
02:41:47,600 --> 02:41:50,159
you know, like World Island. You know, this is where

2161
02:41:50,239 --> 02:41:54,879
the this is the this is where the polar bear develops.

2162
02:41:54,959 --> 02:41:58,760
This is the this is where mammoths stalked the land,

2163
02:41:59,399 --> 02:42:03,360
you know, until fifty thousand years ago or whatever. You know,

2164
02:42:05,440 --> 02:42:10,040
Conquest called it an empire of camps that existed from

2165
02:42:10,120 --> 02:42:14,760
nineteen thirty one until approximately nineteen fifty seven. And I

2166
02:42:14,840 --> 02:42:20,399
mean the scale of this, uh in nineteen thirty mid

2167
02:42:20,520 --> 02:42:25,760
nineteen thirty, as this as the security apparatus was sort

2168
02:42:25,799 --> 02:42:31,959
of consolidating and leaving behind the revolutionary phase and developing

2169
02:42:32,000 --> 02:42:35,479
into a like a true kind of penal system, an

2170
02:42:35,559 --> 02:42:46,639
extermination system to categorically manipulate population outcomes in mortal mortal terms.

2171
02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:54,639
By that point, the OGPU was the precurs of the

2172
02:42:54,719 --> 02:42:58,399
NKVS with the precursor to the KGB. It was constantly

2173
02:42:58,440 --> 02:43:03,719
reconstituting itself in these days, is which I believe it

2174
02:43:03,840 --> 02:43:08,760
was very purposeful to make it difficult to identify what

2175
02:43:09,079 --> 02:43:16,000
series of responsibility were in the the The communists were

2176
02:43:16,040 --> 02:43:19,520
singularly obsessed with manipulating the historical record for reasons that

2177
02:43:19,559 --> 02:43:21,760
are obvious. I mean we've before, we've been talking about

2178
02:43:21,760 --> 02:43:27,159
this past hour, but you know this was uh, I

2179
02:43:27,239 --> 02:43:30,120
mean Stalin famously literally you know, like would redact people

2180
02:43:30,200 --> 02:43:33,799
from the record, you know, only photographic evidence of them.

2181
02:43:34,040 --> 02:43:38,520
But one of the reasons why, I mean any rigorous

2182
02:43:38,559 --> 02:43:44,760
historian really like it's if I understand that, if anything,

2183
02:43:44,879 --> 02:43:49,520
the the death soul presented even by rigorous revisionists like

2184
02:43:49,680 --> 02:43:58,319
Conquest is understated. But superficially, this kind of contant manipulation

2185
02:43:58,520 --> 02:44:06,319
of vernacular and nomenclature provided provided the Soviets with an alibi.

2186
02:44:06,760 --> 02:44:09,639
And there and there are stortbell apologies today and in

2187
02:44:10,000 --> 02:44:13,559
some sense despite the abiquity of information that it has

2188
02:44:14,680 --> 02:44:17,920
the same function. But what's an arguable is that by

2189
02:44:18,000 --> 02:44:20,479
mid nineteen thirty there's approximately one hundred and forty thousand

2190
02:44:20,520 --> 02:44:27,239
prisoners already in these camps run by the GPU. Initially

2191
02:44:27,600 --> 02:44:30,680
these sort of huge labor projects, the first of which

2192
02:44:30,879 --> 02:44:35,920
was digging a canal from connecting the White seat of

2193
02:44:35,959 --> 02:44:40,959
the Baltic which, for perspective this alone required well over

2194
02:44:41,000 --> 02:44:49,920
one hundred thousand lavers. Okay, and what better way to

2195
02:44:50,799 --> 02:44:59,000
avail a labor pool, and you know, to to to

2196
02:44:59,159 --> 02:45:01,879
capture tens of thousandans of of of able bodied men

2197
02:45:03,239 --> 02:45:06,719
you know who either are categorized as you know, putical

2198
02:45:06,840 --> 02:45:11,559
unreliables or members of ethnic groups that have been you know,

2199
02:45:12,120 --> 02:45:16,559
determined to be you know, unassimilable or or resistant to

2200
02:45:18,879 --> 02:45:22,760
you know, the uh, the kind of a de ethnic

2201
02:45:22,959 --> 02:45:28,200
ethnicfication of people's you know, you you can brand these

2202
02:45:28,239 --> 02:45:31,399
many criminals and then you know, you can essentially work

2203
02:45:31,440 --> 02:45:35,920
them to death on these on these massive public work projects,

2204
02:45:36,079 --> 02:45:39,440
you know, as as slaves literally even worse. I mean,

2205
02:45:39,479 --> 02:45:42,239
they're spendables. You know, you don't you don't work your

2206
02:45:42,280 --> 02:45:47,559
slaves to death, you know, if I under you know,

2207
02:45:48,120 --> 02:45:56,719
under ordinary conditions of a channel slavery. But from nineteen

2208
02:45:56,799 --> 02:46:00,600
thirty onward, the number of peoples even some kind of

2209
02:46:00,639 --> 02:46:11,440
custodial sentence just astronomically rose. In nineteen twenty nine there

2210
02:46:11,520 --> 02:46:15,440
was summerly fifty and sixty thousand people who were sentenced

2211
02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:20,719
by the OGPU. A year later this was there was

2212
02:46:20,799 --> 02:46:25,440
over two hundred thousand, But in nineteen thirty one it

2213
02:46:25,600 --> 02:46:29,360
was one million, two hundred and thirty thousand. I mean,

2214
02:46:29,440 --> 02:46:34,600
this is this is astronomical, okay. And we're talking about

2215
02:46:34,959 --> 02:46:36,879
you know, we're not talking about a matter of decades.

2216
02:46:36,879 --> 02:46:39,079
We're talking about the span of a year. You know,

2217
02:46:40,479 --> 02:46:46,159
the camp the population in these camps, you know, labor

2218
02:46:46,239 --> 02:46:51,520
camps and death camps, you know, increasing fivefold over you know,

2219
02:46:51,639 --> 02:47:00,520
a million people there was within this far eastern camp system.

2220
02:47:01,680 --> 02:47:04,120
There's between one hundred and one hundred and sixty camps

2221
02:47:04,120 --> 02:47:07,840
at any given time. This absolutely dwarfs the camp system

2222
02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:11,840
that the Third Reich, I mean, absolutely dwarfs it. Even

2223
02:47:11,879 --> 02:47:16,280
if you accept at face value everything alleged a numberg.

2224
02:47:16,959 --> 02:47:20,360
You know, it's it's it's it's comparing an ant to

2225
02:47:20,440 --> 02:47:26,959
an elephant. The o GPU further in nineteen thirty two,

2226
02:47:27,079 --> 02:47:34,840
absorbed seven hundred small penal colonies and and uh jails

2227
02:47:34,879 --> 02:47:38,239
and prisons you know, where the people have been serving

2228
02:47:38,280 --> 02:47:47,200
sentences from anything from petty theft to homicide. These camps

2229
02:47:47,360 --> 02:47:49,719
and prisons have formerly been run by what it's called

2230
02:47:49,719 --> 02:47:55,159
the People's Commissariat of Justice, and OGPU declared that, you know,

2231
02:47:55,959 --> 02:47:59,440
these were being inefficiently administered, so they absorbed you know,

2232
02:48:00,159 --> 02:48:04,200
what amounted to the conventional you know, prison population and

2233
02:48:06,200 --> 02:48:10,559
began working these people to death, you know, on these

2234
02:48:10,559 --> 02:48:18,399
public works projects. On January first, in New Year's Day,

2235
02:48:18,440 --> 02:48:23,760
nineteen thirty five, this newly unified system, according to Soviet records,

2236
02:48:24,639 --> 02:48:29,200
there was nine one thousand prisoners in it. Over seven

2237
02:48:29,239 --> 02:48:31,680
hundred thousand are in work camps and two hundred and

2238
02:48:31,719 --> 02:48:35,760
forty thousand are in work colonies. Now, mind you, and

2239
02:48:36,760 --> 02:48:39,159
reading between the lines and kind of was made this point.

2240
02:48:41,399 --> 02:48:45,360
There was these discrete, smaller units, and there's no explanation

2241
02:48:46,040 --> 02:48:49,600
for why they were so organized. Presumably that's where actual

2242
02:48:49,719 --> 02:48:54,600
dangerous criminals were housed. But everybody else, the oldly majority,

2243
02:48:54,639 --> 02:48:59,319
had done nothing at all wrong. But everything in the

2244
02:48:59,399 --> 02:49:02,680
Soviet Union under what was called Article fifty eight will

2245
02:49:02,879 --> 02:49:08,799
just catch all penal law. Absenteeism from work was a crime.

2246
02:49:10,000 --> 02:49:16,600
Destroying Soviet property was a crime. Poganism, which translates approximately

2247
02:49:16,719 --> 02:49:20,559
to like disorderly conduct, that was a crime. You know.

2248
02:49:20,760 --> 02:49:23,959
So that's one of the reasons why I get really

2249
02:49:24,040 --> 02:49:30,000
really irritated when people who some of them don't know

2250
02:49:30,040 --> 02:49:33,760
any better, I guess even in our own circles like talk,

2251
02:49:34,000 --> 02:49:38,879
they refer to people as criminals. I'm like, don't. I'm like, don't,

2252
02:49:39,120 --> 02:49:43,239
don't start doing that. Okay. I mean, maybe I feel

2253
02:49:43,280 --> 02:49:49,920
strong about this one background, but you've lost your kind

2254
02:49:49,959 --> 02:49:53,479
of grounded this when you start calling people criminals or

2255
02:49:53,520 --> 02:50:04,879
some categorical elements. Okay, but you know, for perspective, this

2256
02:50:05,200 --> 02:50:08,639
was that this this this this was well known. You know.

2257
02:50:08,680 --> 02:50:11,799
One of the things people that attacked Nolty and his

2258
02:50:11,959 --> 02:50:16,680
thesis claiming like, oh, nobody knew it was underway in

2259
02:50:16,719 --> 02:50:19,079
the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was a nascent superpower,

2260
02:50:20,920 --> 02:50:25,079
and this was it was nothing like today, but film

2261
02:50:25,239 --> 02:50:31,760
was ubiquitous. There was an international newswire. You know, It's

2262
02:50:31,799 --> 02:50:35,000
not like Moscow was thousands of miles away from Europe.

2263
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:42,760
This is well known, you know, people and people, uh,

2264
02:50:44,440 --> 02:50:49,319
these cadres who had fought in Bavaria, you know, and

2265
02:50:49,440 --> 02:50:52,920
in the Baltic against the Free Corps. I mean, these

2266
02:50:53,000 --> 02:50:56,639
people would have been trained in the Soviet Union, you know.

2267
02:50:56,840 --> 02:51:01,879
The for the more, you know, by nineteen thirty six

2268
02:51:02,239 --> 02:51:06,959
there was a truly international proxy conflict in Spain. You know,

2269
02:51:09,239 --> 02:51:14,159
this this idea that information somehow was was quarantined, you know,

2270
02:51:14,239 --> 02:51:16,440
and didn't cross national frontiers. I mean that, that's that,

2271
02:51:16,520 --> 02:51:22,520
that's laughable, you know, it's this was this is common knowledge,

2272
02:51:23,520 --> 02:51:27,799
you know. And plus I mean how exactly you know,

2273
02:51:29,319 --> 02:51:34,440
one hundred thousands of people over the words of the decade,

2274
02:51:34,559 --> 02:51:38,040
millions of people were categorically disappearing. You think people weren't

2275
02:51:38,079 --> 02:51:44,120
noticing that, you know, upon the Soviet assault on Poland,

2276
02:51:45,079 --> 02:51:48,000
you know, a huge number about a quartering onlyion polls

2277
02:51:48,079 --> 02:51:52,239
disappeared in once you know, not just because I mean

2278
02:51:52,280 --> 02:51:55,559
that the Russians there were there was there was ethnic

2279
02:51:55,639 --> 02:52:03,239
hostility between the Russians and Poles anyway, that was arguably

2280
02:52:03,280 --> 02:52:05,360
as severe as that between you know that the Germans

2281
02:52:05,399 --> 02:52:06,959
and the Polls, or the Poles and the Jews, or

2282
02:52:06,959 --> 02:52:12,639
the Germans and the Jews. But you know you think, uh, people,

2283
02:52:13,399 --> 02:52:19,319
people weren't noticing that. You know, the tens of thousands

2284
02:52:19,399 --> 02:52:23,520
of Poles were just disappearing. Their entire officer corps just disappeared,

2285
02:52:23,920 --> 02:52:27,399
you know, the entire like Warsaw clergy just disappeared. I

2286
02:52:27,479 --> 02:52:30,360
mean like, but it's I'm not trying to be up

2287
02:52:30,399 --> 02:52:32,959
to so like mak it out like it's funny or something,

2288
02:52:33,399 --> 02:52:37,600
you know, or every flippant rather about these kinds of

2289
02:52:37,639 --> 02:52:40,959
human tragedies. But it's it's it's like a non argument.

2290
02:52:41,040 --> 02:52:45,399
It's not it's it's on its face, it's it's laughable.

2291
02:52:46,360 --> 02:52:52,879
But the uh, you know, I I epaesize this too,

2292
02:52:52,959 --> 02:52:55,079
And I mean again, I the first person make the

2293
02:52:55,120 --> 02:52:57,879
point that it's not you know, like a like a

2294
02:52:57,959 --> 02:53:01,520
his or historical revisionism is not some kind of numbers game,

2295
02:53:02,360 --> 02:53:09,040
but because what is in contention is the degree of

2296
02:53:09,079 --> 02:53:13,120
attrition in comparative terms. And this really was not just

2297
02:53:13,200 --> 02:53:16,079
the subtext but kind of the part of the core

2298
02:53:16,200 --> 02:53:22,799
controversy of the historical striketh. I want people to contemplate

2299
02:53:23,200 --> 02:53:27,879
again the degree with which the Soviet can't apparatus utterly

2300
02:53:28,120 --> 02:53:34,280
dwarfed that of the German Reich, and like Nolty said,

2301
02:53:34,440 --> 02:53:38,520
other than other than homicidal gas chambers, the degree to

2302
02:53:38,520 --> 02:53:40,280
which they were employed is arguable. I don't want to

2303
02:53:40,319 --> 02:53:43,479
get into that in this series, not because I'm afraid

2304
02:53:43,520 --> 02:53:46,239
to or something reverse to. We can talk about Fred

2305
02:53:46,319 --> 02:53:53,000
Leuchter and Robert Farreson and the entire controversy if people

2306
02:53:53,040 --> 02:53:56,479
want to. But that's but the point is, even if

2307
02:53:57,000 --> 02:53:59,959
you accept all of that at face value, every single

2308
02:54:00,280 --> 02:54:05,879
thing that the Third Reich did was precedented by the

2309
02:54:05,959 --> 02:54:10,200
Soviet Union, with the exception of homicidal gas chambers employed

2310
02:54:10,200 --> 02:54:18,920
against civilian populations. So the entire kind of notion of

2311
02:54:19,360 --> 02:54:23,040
oh Saundervig led to this unique and intractable evil. Just

2312
02:54:23,239 --> 02:54:26,479
look at you know, look look at the Third Reich.

2313
02:54:26,600 --> 02:54:29,399
This this regime that existed for the sole purpose of

2314
02:54:30,079 --> 02:54:34,680
realizing a homicidal conspiracy. I mean, it's it's laughable. I mean,

2315
02:54:34,719 --> 02:54:37,920
it's there's something funny about it, but it's it's preposterous. Rather,

2316
02:54:41,000 --> 02:54:45,920
that's about this. I got some more stuff to say

2317
02:54:45,920 --> 02:54:51,959
about this, but I don't want to. I would you

2318
02:54:52,000 --> 02:54:56,719
be agreeable or amenable if we did a part four

2319
02:54:56,760 --> 02:55:00,280
about we fielded questions from subscribers and I could just

2320
02:55:00,319 --> 02:55:01,959
kind of tie up loose ends. Man, I don't want

2321
02:55:02,000 --> 02:55:05,680
to tell you your business with content. Okay, Yeah, I

2322
02:55:05,799 --> 02:55:09,879
appreciate that, man, And I hope this wasn't too lake scattershot,

2323
02:55:11,399 --> 02:55:12,719
but yeah, I prefer that, man.

2324
02:55:13,719 --> 02:55:17,840
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, we'll do that. We'll schedule that. Do your

2325
02:55:17,879 --> 02:55:19,440
plugs and blendles.

2326
02:55:22,360 --> 02:55:24,879
Speaker 2: You can always find me on my website. It's Thomas

2327
02:55:24,959 --> 02:55:27,760
seven seven seven dot com, number seven h on the

2328
02:55:27,879 --> 02:55:31,079
S seven seven seven dot com. You can find me

2329
02:55:31,280 --> 02:55:40,200
on Twitter. It's a at real Thomas at Capital r

2330
02:55:40,239 --> 02:55:44,639
E A L underscore number seven H on a S

2331
02:55:46,159 --> 02:55:56,159
seven seven seven. I'm on Instagram. My main My main

2332
02:55:56,239 --> 02:55:58,559
platform is substack. If you can find my long form

2333
02:55:58,639 --> 02:56:07,000
stuff and the podcast, and you can find me on

2334
02:56:07,079 --> 02:56:11,600
YouTube it's at Thomas TV. Also excuse me. Also links

2335
02:56:11,639 --> 02:56:15,399
from my website alwayso links from substack seeking you shall

2336
02:56:15,440 --> 02:56:24,479
find I'm I I dropped a video sit rep today

2337
02:56:24,559 --> 02:56:27,120
on my substack, not because I love hearing myself talk,

2338
02:56:27,200 --> 02:56:30,520
but I felt I owed the subscribers an explanation for

2339
02:56:30,639 --> 02:56:37,120
kind of where we're going with things, So I, if

2340
02:56:37,159 --> 02:56:42,000
you are a subscriber, please check that out. I take

2341
02:56:42,040 --> 02:56:46,040
this very seriously and very personally, and I do not

2342
02:56:46,120 --> 02:56:48,479
take a granted the love and support I get from

2343
02:56:48,520 --> 02:56:53,360
all of your people's. It's it's tremendous, Okay, but that's

2344
02:56:53,440 --> 02:56:54,040
that's all I got.

2345
02:56:55,840 --> 02:57:00,600
Speaker 1: Same. We have some great people on our side. Thomas.

2346
02:57:01,079 --> 02:57:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I.

2347
02:57:03,399 --> 02:57:07,520
Speaker 1: Want to welcome everyone back to the Pekana Show. Hey, Thomas,

2348
02:57:07,559 --> 02:57:08,079
how are you dead?

2349
02:57:08,399 --> 02:57:09,879
Speaker 2: Oh no, well thanks for hosting.

2350
02:57:11,000 --> 02:57:13,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are are we going to finish up on Nulty today?

2351
02:57:14,159 --> 02:57:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I wanted to talk about current events a little bit.

2352
02:57:19,680 --> 02:57:23,239
I mean, not just for their own stake, but how

2353
02:57:23,959 --> 02:57:31,840
they relate to how they relate to Nolty's model of

2354
02:57:32,239 --> 02:57:38,120
their paradigm of historicism. Nolte said and something that I

2355
02:57:38,239 --> 02:57:41,440
think should have been more deeply controversial, not should have

2356
02:57:41,520 --> 02:57:43,280
been in the sense I think that what he said

2357
02:57:43,440 --> 02:57:45,879
was was wrong in any way, but it goes to

2358
02:57:45,959 --> 02:57:51,719
show you that as kind of anglophone academy has eclipsed

2359
02:57:53,040 --> 02:57:59,840
the continent. You know, people don't really pay attention to

2360
02:58:00,120 --> 02:58:03,520
continal philosophy, and in the way that they do, you know,

2361
02:58:05,319 --> 02:58:10,559
kind of anglophone treatments of ethics and things. You know,

2362
02:58:10,680 --> 02:58:15,280
both in concrete terms is applied to the world situation

2363
02:58:15,440 --> 02:58:18,840
in any given moment, but also in more abstract terms,

2364
02:58:18,920 --> 02:58:22,200
you know, postulating, you know, what is a legitimate active state,

2365
02:58:22,360 --> 02:58:29,600
you know, what is permissible under conditions of war, things

2366
02:58:29,680 --> 02:58:33,360
like that. Something I think was more at least more

2367
02:58:33,440 --> 02:58:38,079
sweeping in terms of what was being asserted than what

2368
02:58:38,399 --> 02:58:44,120
was postulated during the historical strike was an Oldie's nineteen

2369
02:58:44,200 --> 02:58:46,000
ninety one book. It was It was a history of

2370
02:58:46,440 --> 02:58:51,760
the twentieth century, okay, from essentially a right Hegelian perspective,

2371
02:58:52,719 --> 02:58:59,639
and specifically specifically he talked about how the common nucleus

2372
02:58:59,680 --> 02:59:07,440
of acts and historical phenomenon gave rise to three totally

2373
02:59:07,520 --> 02:59:12,159
abnormal political cultures, and that was the Soviet Union, the

2374
02:59:12,280 --> 02:59:15,799
Third Reich in Israel and a lot of people in

2375
02:59:15,879 --> 02:59:18,840
this country, not so much in Europe for reasons that

2376
02:59:18,879 --> 02:59:22,840
should be obvious, but a lot to people must understand

2377
02:59:22,879 --> 02:59:25,920
what Israel is like. I'm not saying that I'm speaking

2378
02:59:26,079 --> 02:59:29,079
in purely objective terms, not at all punatively. I think

2379
02:59:29,120 --> 02:59:31,399
they few Israel like they do like the independent state

2380
02:59:31,440 --> 02:59:34,600
of Croatia or something, or like they view you know,

2381
02:59:35,440 --> 02:59:38,079
even Ukraine like some kind of they think, Oh, a

2382
02:59:38,120 --> 02:59:40,280
bunch of a bunch of Jewish people lived in the

2383
02:59:40,319 --> 02:59:42,799
Middle East and decided they wanted their own state. That's

2384
02:59:42,879 --> 02:59:46,840
not how it developed. And it's also why there's tensions

2385
02:59:46,920 --> 02:59:53,239
between you know, the ruling Leekud regime contra you know

2386
02:59:53,799 --> 02:59:56,280
who the people they call the ultra Orthodox, as well

2387
02:59:56,280 --> 03:00:00,360
as others. Like Zionism. Isn't just this organic move of

2388
03:00:00,600 --> 03:00:03,360
you know, like nationalists mighty Jewish people indigenous to the

2389
03:00:03,360 --> 03:00:09,879
Middle East. It was very much a European ideology that

2390
03:00:10,200 --> 03:00:12,719
came out of, you know, born up sort of like

2391
03:00:12,760 --> 03:00:17,079
the intellectual culture of of people whose origins were in

2392
03:00:17,120 --> 03:00:19,520
this we're in the pale settlement, you know, and who

2393
03:00:19,559 --> 03:00:21,559
found their way kind of you know, far and wide

2394
03:00:21,920 --> 03:00:27,559
in European urban centers and and and and and intellectual corridors,

2395
03:00:28,600 --> 03:00:30,559
you know, whether you're talking about you know, Mensk or

2396
03:00:30,639 --> 03:00:38,000
Berlin or Warsaw or Zagreb or wherever. But the whole

2397
03:00:38,040 --> 03:00:40,760
idea was that for the Jewish people to survive like

2398
03:00:40,879 --> 03:00:43,879
as a race. And again this is you know, very

2399
03:00:44,000 --> 03:00:47,079
much grounded in the kind of twentieth century sensibility of

2400
03:00:47,159 --> 03:00:52,600
people's heritage being you know, born of blood and material quantities.

2401
03:00:52,920 --> 03:00:55,799
You know, the idea was, well, the Jewish people need

2402
03:00:55,879 --> 03:01:01,200
to stop being this kind of you know, they need

2403
03:01:01,280 --> 03:01:03,280
to stop being this kind of nation without a country.

2404
03:01:03,719 --> 03:01:06,079
We need a national state, you know, we need that

2405
03:01:06,280 --> 03:01:09,040
that that that guards you know, Jewish racial blood at

2406
03:01:09,040 --> 03:01:12,600
all costs. You know, it's got to, uh, it's got

2407
03:01:12,719 --> 03:01:15,639
to be premised on this kind of like communitarian you know,

2408
03:01:15,760 --> 03:01:19,680
like like like military socialism. You know, it's got to uh,

2409
03:01:20,959 --> 03:01:23,360
it's it's got to basically inundate people in this kind

2410
03:01:23,360 --> 03:01:27,200
of new way of thinking. You know that Jews aren't

2411
03:01:27,200 --> 03:01:32,239
habituated do owing to owing to their kind of peculiar heritage,

2412
03:01:34,040 --> 03:01:35,840
not like like politically, I mean, you know, in the

2413
03:01:35,959 --> 03:01:39,120
terends of modes of life. And that's why for example,

2414
03:01:40,319 --> 03:01:42,280
you know, and again I'm not I'm not saying this

2415
03:01:42,399 --> 03:01:45,959
cunatively like why why why is why do people speak Hebrew?

2416
03:01:46,000 --> 03:01:47,600
What is real? They'd be like if people like me

2417
03:01:48,200 --> 03:01:51,200
said suddenly decided we're gonna start like writing and Viking rooms,

2418
03:01:51,479 --> 03:01:53,920
Like why don't they speak Aramaic, you know, like why

2419
03:01:53,959 --> 03:01:56,159
why don't they speak like Yiddish or even or even

2420
03:01:56,360 --> 03:01:59,680
you know, whatever dialectic German was common to. It was

2421
03:01:59,760 --> 03:02:02,520
common to the Jewish ghetto, like white Hebrew. You know,

2422
03:02:02,600 --> 03:02:04,799
like it's very much this is very much that kind

2423
03:02:04,799 --> 03:02:08,159
of mythologize. It's like a view of themselves. Okay, And

2424
03:02:08,200 --> 03:02:11,959
I'm not even saying that, like like and Zion go ahead.

2425
03:02:12,520 --> 03:02:16,000
Speaker 1: Even a lot of scholars point to the fact that

2426
03:02:17,520 --> 03:02:21,120
Hebrew really wasn't even spoken amongst shoes, that it was

2427
03:02:21,239 --> 03:02:25,440
resurrected in the late nineteenth century because you know, if

2428
03:02:25,440 --> 03:02:26,879
you're going to have a people, you have to have

2429
03:02:26,920 --> 03:02:27,879
a language.

2430
03:02:27,879 --> 03:02:31,120
Speaker 2: No, exactly, And so that was yeah, exactly, that's that's

2431
03:02:31,159 --> 03:02:34,399
exactly it. So I mean it and and again too,

2432
03:02:34,520 --> 03:02:37,799
I mean there's ZIONI is you know, like heim Weissman,

2433
03:02:38,680 --> 03:02:40,680
they were self consciousness. It's not like they were pretending

2434
03:02:40,719 --> 03:02:45,399
it was something else. But this this this kind of

2435
03:02:45,479 --> 03:02:50,600
revolutionary sort of you know, like top down restructuring of

2436
03:02:50,760 --> 03:02:56,159
the Jewish form of life. You know, that's very much

2437
03:02:56,159 --> 03:03:02,959
a boring again of the same, the same historical, historically driven,

2438
03:03:03,120 --> 03:03:12,639
uh ideological phenomena that that gave rise the you know

2439
03:03:12,719 --> 03:03:18,719
Marxist Leninism and national socialism, you know, and that's one

2440
03:03:18,760 --> 03:03:22,440
of the reasons Israel is anachronistic. Okay, and I don't

2441
03:03:22,440 --> 03:03:24,520
want to go too far afield, but I'm writing some

2442
03:03:24,639 --> 03:03:27,079
long form stuff right now about what I call the

2443
03:03:27,239 --> 03:03:31,879
German Cold War. You know, the DVR, they pursued an

2444
03:03:31,879 --> 03:03:35,360
independent course in a lot of ways, I mean, very

2445
03:03:35,440 --> 03:03:38,799
different than that pursued by you know, Crusiski's Romania or

2446
03:03:38,840 --> 03:03:42,079
like Heuzyugoslavia. Like they were one hundred and ten percent

2447
03:03:42,479 --> 03:03:47,760
in the worst offpack camp. And but you know, they

2448
03:03:49,120 --> 03:03:51,719
they were, they were, they were. They were kind of

2449
03:03:51,799 --> 03:03:54,680
like more of a vanguard of the Stalinist perspective than

2450
03:03:54,760 --> 03:03:59,799
even the Soviet Union was, and kind of fascinatingly and ironically,

2451
03:04:00,360 --> 03:04:05,559
you know, as Gorbachev started implementing pera Strika, like the

2452
03:04:05,680 --> 03:04:08,680
Socialist Unity Party in the d DR started banning Soviet

2453
03:04:08,719 --> 03:04:11,319
publications that they considered to be like revisionists and not

2454
03:04:11,959 --> 03:04:16,639
adequately orthodox in terms of the ideological line they towed.

2455
03:04:17,079 --> 03:04:20,239
But one of the big the DDR, like the Cubans,

2456
03:04:21,319 --> 03:04:25,440
they pursued this aggressive revolutionary foreign policy overseas. You know,

2457
03:04:25,479 --> 03:04:28,680
in the modern Syria is very much, very much owes

2458
03:04:28,760 --> 03:04:32,239
to East German assistance and development, like everything from like

2459
03:04:32,280 --> 03:04:35,479
a military doctrine to their kind of like mixed economy

2460
03:04:36,159 --> 03:04:41,440
to you know, their to the kind of nomenclature that

2461
03:04:42,959 --> 03:04:46,079
the Syrian Bath Party, which was very different than the

2462
03:04:46,120 --> 03:04:48,239
Iraqi Bath Party. I mean, that's one of the reasons

2463
03:04:48,280 --> 03:04:50,040
why they went to war with Saddam's at Iraq in

2464
03:04:50,120 --> 03:04:54,280
ninety one. But they were very much in some ways

2465
03:04:55,799 --> 03:05:00,559
in some critical power political ways, you know, the progeny

2466
03:05:00,639 --> 03:05:06,360
of East Germany and UH, the East Germans really targeted Israel, Okay,

2467
03:05:06,639 --> 03:05:09,959
Like that's indisputable now, of course, the UH if you

2468
03:05:10,079 --> 03:05:12,200
read stuff from the era on even some of these

2469
03:05:12,840 --> 03:05:19,760
academic articles about you know, Cold War anti Semitism, like

2470
03:05:19,840 --> 03:05:22,399
there were people at like the bottom Minehoff faction like

2471
03:05:22,520 --> 03:05:25,840
they praised UH, like the execution of the Israeli athletes

2472
03:05:25,879 --> 03:05:29,280
at Munich, you know, like the Japanese army faction like

2473
03:05:29,360 --> 03:05:33,079
they assaulted UH. You know, they assaulted the Israeli airport

2474
03:05:33,159 --> 03:05:35,760
and stuff, and UH, I can't remember his name, but

2475
03:05:35,959 --> 03:05:42,239
one of the guys who he wasn't a direct action operator,

2476
03:05:43,479 --> 03:05:45,719
but he was kind of the court intellectual of uh

2477
03:05:47,719 --> 03:05:50,600
of the bottom Minehoff crew. He would openly call he

2478
03:05:50,639 --> 03:05:55,200
would openly call Israelis like Youudenschwein, like literally Jewish pigs

2479
03:05:55,840 --> 03:05:57,680
and like that was that was like unthinkable, It would

2480
03:05:57,680 --> 03:05:59,840
be unthinkable to talk about like any other like population

2481
03:06:00,440 --> 03:06:03,680
like in East Germany. You know. But uh so there's

2482
03:06:03,719 --> 03:06:08,920
something I mean obviously, I mean I I basically accept

2483
03:06:08,920 --> 03:06:13,360
one hundred percent like Yaqui's paradigm about what happened in

2484
03:06:13,399 --> 03:06:16,959
the Cold War and and how Zionism was the was

2485
03:06:17,040 --> 03:06:20,120
it was the final catalyst to put you know, the

2486
03:06:20,200 --> 03:06:24,120
Eastern Block and and the Israelis and arguably the Jews

2487
03:06:24,159 --> 03:06:28,319
as a people, you know, like an enemy footing. But

2488
03:06:28,600 --> 03:06:31,959
it's but you know, the uh one of the things

2489
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:37,639
I was keeping Israel alive in terms of it's raised

2490
03:06:37,680 --> 03:06:40,520
on Detra, but also in practical terms it's sort of

2491
03:06:40,600 --> 03:06:44,520
conceptual existence was the Cold War. One of the reasons

2492
03:06:44,520 --> 03:06:47,559
why Israel's having the problems it is now. It's not

2493
03:06:47,799 --> 03:06:50,799
wokeism or what people seem to think, you know, like

2494
03:06:50,920 --> 03:06:53,959
in like these kind of commentary ists circles. It's not

2495
03:06:53,959 --> 03:06:56,040
because people suddenly have developed some like you know, quote

2496
03:06:56,079 --> 03:06:59,920
unquote like liberal idea of a Palestine and racism or something.

2497
03:07:00,360 --> 03:07:02,920
I mean it might, I mean that there might be

2498
03:07:03,040 --> 03:07:06,760
some aspect of that, but you know that nothing's changed

2499
03:07:07,159 --> 03:07:09,840
in that regard. It's not like suddenly people are aware

2500
03:07:09,879 --> 03:07:12,040
of the racial dynamic and they weren't, you know, ten

2501
03:07:12,159 --> 03:07:16,840
twenty fifty years ago. What happened was as as the

2502
03:07:16,920 --> 03:07:20,159
Soviet Union and especially the Third Right, you know, like

2503
03:07:20,360 --> 03:07:23,399
like fade into memory and there's just you know, and

2504
03:07:23,920 --> 03:07:27,840
it's just not something that figures into people's conceptual horizon,

2505
03:07:28,040 --> 03:07:32,159
even historically in terms of living memory. You know, like

2506
03:07:32,479 --> 03:07:35,600
this kind of like this literally like Jewish racial state,

2507
03:07:36,440 --> 03:07:40,840
you know, talking about invoking these kinds of the apocalyptic

2508
03:07:41,000 --> 03:07:47,159
kind of scenarios to rationalize why it's got to sustain

2509
03:07:47,280 --> 03:07:51,600
this kind of bizarre and anomaloust existence and the kind

2510
03:07:51,600 --> 03:07:56,200
of globalized planet like that doesn't people can't conceptualize that anymore,

2511
03:07:57,079 --> 03:08:01,360
you know. And one of the things, you know, like

2512
03:08:01,440 --> 03:08:04,360
we talked about one of the things that killed the

2513
03:08:04,479 --> 03:08:07,719
Soviet Union, you know, it wasn't just the fact that

2514
03:08:08,639 --> 03:08:13,280
it's because I mean, like like authoritarian and dysfunctional regimes

2515
03:08:13,399 --> 03:08:17,319
like Shambalon indefinitely or they can. I mean, it happens

2516
03:08:17,360 --> 03:08:19,959
all the time. Like what killed the Soviet Union wasn't

2517
03:08:19,959 --> 03:08:21,959
that people didn't have freedom, or that it had a

2518
03:08:22,040 --> 03:08:27,680
basket case economy, or that you know, it lacked popular

2519
03:08:27,799 --> 03:08:33,440
legitimacy in a way that you know, could be could

2520
03:08:33,479 --> 03:08:37,639
only be remedied by you know, over reliance on punitive measures.

2521
03:08:37,840 --> 03:08:40,600
I mean, those things didn't help any But at the

2522
03:08:40,680 --> 03:08:44,559
end of the day, the class struggled paradigm as like

2523
03:08:44,559 --> 03:08:48,440
an ontological reality, like regardless of like the credibility of

2524
03:08:48,479 --> 03:08:54,639
that explanation for for human political life and sociological existence,

2525
03:08:54,719 --> 03:08:56,440
regardless of whether there's any merit to that or not.

2526
03:08:57,719 --> 03:09:02,360
The punctuated disturbances of of modernity, like you know, really

2527
03:09:02,399 --> 03:09:05,159
really disruptive people's lives, you know, And that's one of

2528
03:09:05,200 --> 03:09:09,639
the things that gave Marcus Leninism it's momentum as well

2529
03:09:09,639 --> 03:09:14,239
as its credibility. And when those conditions abated and people

2530
03:09:14,319 --> 03:09:18,719
couldn't even really conceptualize of them anymore, you know, because

2531
03:09:18,760 --> 03:09:22,200
two thirds of the population had been born after those

2532
03:09:22,239 --> 03:09:25,079
occurrences took place, and things, you know, there's no longer

2533
03:09:25,120 --> 03:09:28,520
a context of Sovietism you know, it's it's just pictating

2534
03:09:28,559 --> 03:09:33,879
incoherent and in large part that's where Israel is now,

2535
03:09:35,600 --> 03:09:38,639
you know. And that's one of the things that's one

2536
03:09:38,680 --> 03:09:41,360
of the reasons why the Holocaust narrative was so essential,

2537
03:09:42,319 --> 03:09:46,239
because when that had this like monumental power, like totemic power,

2538
03:09:47,159 --> 03:09:50,719
you know, regardless even even with the Inner German border

2539
03:09:50,799 --> 03:09:54,000
no longer existing, and even even with the Cold War

2540
03:09:55,040 --> 03:09:57,680
no longer dividing the planet, it could be said like, well,

2541
03:09:58,959 --> 03:10:01,799
you know, the jew as a people, like Jewish people,

2542
03:10:01,959 --> 03:10:05,920
qua Jewish people, you know, they were they were availed

2543
03:10:05,959 --> 03:10:10,440
the most catastrophic evil that ever existed. And you know

2544
03:10:10,799 --> 03:10:13,760
this could re emerge at any time, you know, owing

2545
03:10:13,840 --> 03:10:18,399
to the basic moral frailties of of of everybody else

2546
03:10:19,079 --> 03:10:21,840
and their unique enmity towards the Jews as a people.

2547
03:10:22,520 --> 03:10:26,840
So you know, Zionism is essentially like the defensive ramparts

2548
03:10:26,920 --> 03:10:30,159
that they need, you know, Like, I mean, that's nonsense,

2549
03:10:31,079 --> 03:10:36,000
but this had a tremendous totemic power. Again, I mean,

2550
03:10:36,079 --> 03:10:38,799
only to a number of variables. I don't think something

2551
03:10:38,879 --> 03:10:41,600
like that could be I don't think something like that

2552
03:10:41,719 --> 03:10:45,280
could be constructed now, like such an ideological narrative that

2553
03:10:45,319 --> 03:10:47,360
had that kind of staying power, another kind of total

2554
03:10:49,159 --> 03:10:52,520
and and was kind of that like totally insinuated into

2555
03:10:52,760 --> 03:10:55,840
political life and get sexual terms the way that particular

2556
03:10:55,959 --> 03:10:59,159
narrative was. But you know, you look at the history

2557
03:10:59,159 --> 03:11:00,399
of Israel, can.

2558
03:11:00,319 --> 03:11:02,920
Speaker 1: I ask you one so you said it had nothing

2559
03:11:02,959 --> 03:11:05,799
to do with woke. But I look at like Israel,

2560
03:11:06,319 --> 03:11:08,520
and I look at what they're you know, what what

2561
03:11:08,680 --> 03:11:11,280
comes out of the government, what they're trying to do.

2562
03:11:12,159 --> 03:11:15,559
And then I look at like tel Aviv, the gayest

2563
03:11:15,639 --> 03:11:21,280
city on Earth. Those those two things, those seem to

2564
03:11:21,360 --> 03:11:24,680
be that's a clash to me. That is Oh no,

2565
03:11:24,799 --> 03:11:27,360
it is, yeah, Israel the government and then you have

2566
03:11:27,479 --> 03:11:30,479
tel Aviv over here, which is just you know, decadences,

2567
03:11:30,879 --> 03:11:33,399
sodom and gomorrah. That that doesn't seem like it's going

2568
03:11:33,440 --> 03:11:33,760
to work.

2569
03:11:34,000 --> 03:11:36,559
Speaker 2: Oh no, their internal situation, absolutely, that's true. I was

2570
03:11:36,559 --> 03:11:38,559
talking more in terms of world opinion, the reason why

2571
03:11:38,600 --> 03:11:41,799
people suddenly in the in the like people apparently like

2572
03:11:41,879 --> 03:11:44,959
suddenly turned against the Jewish state, like I mean in

2573
03:11:45,079 --> 03:11:47,879
terms of I mean, I mean, I mean like in

2574
03:11:47,920 --> 03:11:50,879
America and in the EU and things. That's no, absolutely,

2575
03:11:51,000 --> 03:11:53,799
it's uh, it feels a basket case. What's also too,

2576
03:11:53,840 --> 03:11:55,239
it's kind of the point I was making is that

2577
03:11:55,319 --> 03:11:57,959
the people who are kind of like perpetuating Jewish life,

2578
03:11:58,680 --> 03:12:01,879
you know, they're these like hard line religious elements who

2579
03:12:01,959 --> 03:12:05,920
really aren't Zionists, Like they're super hardcore like in their

2580
03:12:05,959 --> 03:12:08,959
identitarian commitments, but not because of the Zionism. I think

2581
03:12:09,079 --> 03:12:11,879
Zionism is nonsense, you know, and at worst they think

2582
03:12:11,920 --> 03:12:14,520
it's you know, like blasphemous and like a kind of idolatry,

2583
03:12:15,239 --> 03:12:20,000
you know, the it's uh, and then that's a whole

2584
03:12:20,040 --> 03:12:25,159
other that's a whole other paradigm that's rather complicated.

2585
03:12:26,879 --> 03:12:31,840
Speaker 1: But one could actually say that Israel is multicultural. Yeah

2586
03:12:31,959 --> 03:12:36,000
it is, and a multicultural society is not going is

2587
03:12:36,120 --> 03:12:37,000
not going to last.

2588
03:12:37,280 --> 03:12:39,239
Speaker 2: Well that's why I like racialism on its own fate,

2589
03:12:39,440 --> 03:12:41,559
like just on its own terms, like doesn't work, you

2590
03:12:41,600 --> 03:12:44,360
know what I mean. Like it's not not because like

2591
03:12:44,440 --> 03:12:46,719
racism real or something, or that it's not an essential

2592
03:12:46,799 --> 03:12:50,200
component of identity and everything else, but that they can't

2593
03:12:50,280 --> 03:12:53,920
just be like the exclusive basis of you know, your

2594
03:12:53,959 --> 03:12:58,440
communitarian mandate, you know, because yeah, it just it doesn't,

2595
03:12:59,200 --> 03:13:03,920
it doesn't, it doesn't lead anything other than other than

2596
03:13:03,959 --> 03:13:07,479
some kind of superficial how much in neity it's you know,

2597
03:13:07,959 --> 03:13:10,719
like a mile wide and half an inch deep. But

2598
03:13:12,719 --> 03:13:16,879
the what's also what people have to understand is that,

2599
03:13:18,440 --> 03:13:21,920
you know, kind of the and I'll get into briefly,

2600
03:13:22,079 --> 03:13:27,079
I'll kind of break down what white white multis description

2601
03:13:27,239 --> 03:13:30,319
is apropos. I think a lot of people don't truly

2602
03:13:30,399 --> 03:13:34,399
understand what happened in the nineteen forty eight war. But

2603
03:13:34,559 --> 03:13:37,040
you know, Israel, Israel is always had a problem with

2604
03:13:37,200 --> 03:13:39,719
getting people who are willing to go live there, like

2605
03:13:40,159 --> 03:13:42,319
Israel's kind of a shithole. Like I'm not again, I'm

2606
03:13:42,319 --> 03:13:44,680
not saying that like, oh fuck those people. I'm saying,

2607
03:13:44,680 --> 03:13:45,520
do you want to go Do you want to go

2608
03:13:45,639 --> 03:13:49,040
live in some uh? Do you want to go live

2609
03:13:49,079 --> 03:13:53,760
in in some unstable uh? In geostrategic terms, you know,

2610
03:13:55,239 --> 03:14:01,920
like densely massed, like like overpopulated, uh, you know, country

2611
03:14:01,959 --> 03:14:05,680
in the desert where you know, the cost of living

2612
03:14:05,799 --> 03:14:09,840
basically to to to afford the kinds of luxuries we're

2613
03:14:09,879 --> 03:14:12,280
used to in America. And you know the e or Japan,

2614
03:14:13,399 --> 03:14:16,079
you know, can be astronomical depending on the world situation.

2615
03:14:17,040 --> 03:14:21,799
You know, where you know it's your day to day

2616
03:14:22,639 --> 03:14:25,520
activities are kind of limited by the security situation, which

2617
03:14:25,559 --> 03:14:28,399
is which is one of like permanent emergency. And also

2618
03:14:28,440 --> 03:14:31,639
again too, it's not we're not talking about We're not

2619
03:14:31,719 --> 03:14:33,520
talking about like a guy who you know, was born

2620
03:14:33,559 --> 03:14:35,879
in Japan or like born in Spain or something like

2621
03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:38,639
going back to the old country. Like Israel is an

2622
03:14:38,639 --> 03:14:42,520
ideological state, you know, like it's not. Again, it's not

2623
03:14:43,520 --> 03:14:45,120
it's not kind of like the Jewish way of law

2624
03:14:45,239 --> 03:14:47,120
because it's been for you know, thousands of years in

2625
03:14:47,120 --> 03:14:50,079
the EU eas just like fully realized or something. So

2626
03:14:50,159 --> 03:14:52,159
there was always this problem with getting people to move

2627
03:14:52,239 --> 03:14:56,440
to Israel, you know, and that was one of the

2628
03:14:56,479 --> 03:15:00,920
reasons for the huge push of the jag and Vanic Amendment,

2629
03:15:01,040 --> 03:15:04,600
you know, which was obviously premised done you know, the

2630
03:15:04,760 --> 03:15:09,120
need to treat Jews as a refugee from Soviet anti Semitism.

2631
03:15:09,520 --> 03:15:12,040
You know, nobody actually believed that, you know, Brezhnev or

2632
03:15:12,120 --> 03:15:14,440
and drop what was gonna subject these people to a program.

2633
03:15:15,319 --> 03:15:18,079
The the underlying impetus was this is a way to

2634
03:15:18,239 --> 03:15:23,040
literally get people to Israel, you know, like the Soviets,

2635
03:15:23,200 --> 03:15:26,479
you know, basically like basically like bribing the Soviets to

2636
03:15:27,680 --> 03:15:32,239
to the hand out visas for free you know, to

2637
03:15:32,319 --> 03:15:36,079
any to any ethnic Jew within Soviet borders. You know,

2638
03:15:36,239 --> 03:15:38,719
but they're but but they're you know, they're they're they're

2639
03:15:38,760 --> 03:15:43,040
only with the understanding that their destination was Israel, you know,

2640
03:15:43,120 --> 03:15:48,159
I mean that. And on top of that too, you know,

2641
03:15:48,319 --> 03:15:50,760
I've always maintained one of the reasons where a Bean

2642
03:15:51,239 --> 03:15:54,799
was murdered, uh and Ehud Barak, who's a pretty sensible guy.

2643
03:15:55,920 --> 03:15:59,799
He's he's he's kind of a man without allies, because

2644
03:15:59,799 --> 03:16:01,479
I mean he was he was just like a hard line,

2645
03:16:01,520 --> 03:16:04,879
like IDF military guy. So people on the left, including

2646
03:16:04,920 --> 03:16:08,200
you know, like Israeli labor types, don't like him. He's

2647
03:16:08,280 --> 03:16:12,239
a hugely critical of Lekud. So these are cardcore designists

2648
03:16:12,239 --> 03:16:15,639
don't like him. But he all but admits that, you know,

2649
03:16:15,760 --> 03:16:23,000
Barack was, Rabine was assassinated, and Raban was essentially going

2650
03:16:23,040 --> 03:16:28,639
to end in the permanent emergency, you know, but they

2651
03:16:28,959 --> 03:16:31,600
but Israel sees to to exist and that emergency ever

2652
03:16:31,719 --> 03:16:33,920
goes away, you know, Like I'm not even saying this

2653
03:16:34,040 --> 03:16:39,520
is consciously within the within the contemplation of of of

2654
03:16:39,600 --> 03:16:42,040
the inner party of Leekud or something I think some

2655
03:16:42,159 --> 03:16:44,520
people understand this very well, you know, and on a

2656
03:16:44,639 --> 03:16:48,360
very conscious level. But you know, Israel needs that. They

2657
03:16:48,440 --> 03:16:51,719
need the they need the threat of existential siege. They

2658
03:16:51,760 --> 03:16:56,159
need the threat or at least the the conceptual specter,

2659
03:16:57,879 --> 03:16:59,840
realistic or not, so long as it's so long as

2660
03:16:59,840 --> 03:17:03,799
it has credibility within the minds of you know, the

2661
03:17:03,920 --> 03:17:08,440
national community. There this this idea that you know, they're

2662
03:17:08,479 --> 03:17:14,719
facing oblivion unless uh, you know, they they remains, they

2663
03:17:14,760 --> 03:17:21,760
sustain this constant vigilance that's uh facilitated by you know,

2664
03:17:21,879 --> 03:17:25,159
this this kind of like spartan socialism. You know, that's

2665
03:17:25,280 --> 03:17:28,319
without that, Israel doesn't have anything, you know, without that.

2666
03:17:28,520 --> 03:17:34,520
It's it's it uh, it's it's going to like evaporate

2667
03:17:34,600 --> 03:17:37,639
into the pages of history, you know. And I think

2668
03:17:37,680 --> 03:17:42,000
that's inevitable, but its and it's already happening. But that's

2669
03:17:42,280 --> 03:17:46,239
that's what that's what Nolty was getting at about Israel.

2670
03:17:47,799 --> 03:17:51,840
And that's hugely important and I mean, just like briefly too,

2671
03:17:52,040 --> 03:17:59,079
like for people who don't accept what accept that whole

2672
03:17:59,159 --> 03:18:04,040
kind of the whole kind of paradigm, you know, the

2673
03:18:05,399 --> 03:18:08,840
the nineteen forty eight war. Well, first of all, as

2674
03:18:08,959 --> 03:18:15,319
as any Zionists, so enthusiastically remind you the Arab forces

2675
03:18:15,360 --> 03:18:18,520
and being and the men with real comet experience, they'd

2676
03:18:18,559 --> 03:18:23,319
either been the ops to the British Empire or they've

2677
03:18:23,319 --> 03:18:25,959
been fighting on the side of the Third Reich, you know,

2678
03:18:26,120 --> 03:18:32,319
and including the move the al Husseini who was had

2679
03:18:32,360 --> 03:18:37,520
been branded a war criminal and had fled Berlin at

2680
03:18:37,559 --> 03:18:42,000
the eleventh hour, and you know, was was basically it

2681
03:18:42,159 --> 03:18:46,559
was basically like living a living a vagrant life of

2682
03:18:47,879 --> 03:18:52,399
a wanted man or an tenorantal life or ether. So

2683
03:18:53,280 --> 03:18:59,280
there's a unique vulnerability in terms of in terms of

2684
03:18:59,280 --> 03:19:02,559
the Arab popular a Palestine and their ability to defend themselves,

2685
03:19:03,079 --> 03:19:11,040
you know, at least contra their their's Zionists adversaries. What

2686
03:19:11,159 --> 03:19:16,239
we think of as like the nineteen forty eight uh

2687
03:19:17,520 --> 03:19:20,079
War or the you know, the Deliberation War or the

2688
03:19:20,159 --> 03:19:22,920
War of Israeli Independence or whatever court history calls it,

2689
03:19:25,200 --> 03:19:29,680
were essentially talking about Hagana's what they called Plane D,

2690
03:19:30,680 --> 03:19:34,040
which was the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Even though it

2691
03:19:34,159 --> 03:19:35,799
was clear they were going to get their way in

2692
03:19:35,959 --> 03:19:41,840
some sense with the UN partition, Truman was not enthusiastic

2693
03:19:41,920 --> 03:19:46,239
about it. And ironically, the only people who were were

2694
03:19:46,280 --> 03:19:50,719
the Soviet Union, and that rapidly they were there were

2695
03:19:50,799 --> 03:19:54,159
Soviets rapidly reversed course on that. But that's outside the

2696
03:19:54,159 --> 03:20:03,479
scoreboard is talking about right now. But the uh Hagana Ergun,

2697
03:20:05,120 --> 03:20:08,319
this this stern gang, they all they all realized that

2698
03:20:09,680 --> 03:20:13,200
even if they got even if they got like you know,

2699
03:20:15,079 --> 03:20:18,639
fully half of uh the land in question, they still

2700
03:20:18,639 --> 03:20:21,559
had a demographic problem. You know, they still they still

2701
03:20:21,559 --> 03:20:25,959
have their backs against the wall in terms of you know,

2702
03:20:26,079 --> 03:20:28,079
as regards to the bounty rationaley of what they were

2703
03:20:28,079 --> 03:20:29,920
trying to accomplish, and that was, you know, a Jewish

2704
03:20:30,040 --> 03:20:33,799
racial state where in you know, the entirety of a

2705
03:20:33,879 --> 03:20:39,280
Manic Palestine was in their hands, you know, demographically, militarily

2706
03:20:39,319 --> 03:20:44,840
and otherwise. So in in March nine and forty eight,

2707
03:20:44,879 --> 03:20:52,200
Plan D kicks off and Zionist paramilitary elements. This was

2708
03:20:52,239 --> 03:20:57,879
the first time they were under a unified command. Really, uh.

2709
03:20:59,879 --> 03:21:04,600
All the Palestinian Arabs had was they had the al

2710
03:21:04,680 --> 03:21:10,360
Kadar al Husseini and a man named Hassan Salom. They

2711
03:21:10,440 --> 03:21:13,399
succeeded in cutting the road look can tell Aviv and Jerusalem,

2712
03:21:16,159 --> 03:21:18,840
and had there been the forces in being to assault,

2713
03:21:21,879 --> 03:21:24,440
they might have had the man power to seize Jerusalem,

2714
03:21:25,120 --> 03:21:28,399
and that would have been a game changer in my opinion.

2715
03:21:28,520 --> 03:21:37,079
But because it may, Designers leadership realized they they had

2716
03:21:37,120 --> 03:21:41,479
to act systematically, and they had to act now, not

2717
03:21:42,079 --> 03:21:48,360
just because of the possible Palestinian offensive to preempt what

2718
03:21:48,440 --> 03:21:55,200
they were planning, but they discerned that there might very

2719
03:21:55,239 --> 03:21:58,879
well be a change in the in the international situation,

2720
03:21:59,040 --> 03:22:04,319
in particular kind of like washing the DC's mood towards

2721
03:22:04,399 --> 03:22:07,319
the concept of a Jewish state. And you know, just

2722
03:22:08,680 --> 03:22:13,639
as as kind of the Cold War hardened in terms

2723
03:22:13,680 --> 03:22:18,159
of you know, the nation and alliance structure, they thought

2724
03:22:18,200 --> 03:22:21,479
that their ambitions would probably be sacrificed. I mean, you

2725
03:22:21,520 --> 03:22:24,920
can argue that either way. But again in terms of

2726
03:22:25,040 --> 03:22:29,159
what in terms of in terms of Zionism as an idea,

2727
03:22:30,079 --> 03:22:32,040
you know, and like we talked about in Noblty's view,

2728
03:22:32,079 --> 03:22:36,479
which I think is correct, ideas of their own animating force.

2729
03:22:37,200 --> 03:22:39,879
You know, this design Is project had to be seen

2730
03:22:40,040 --> 03:22:48,920
through or would die, especially at that juncture. So the

2731
03:22:49,520 --> 03:22:51,959
the Clindic of pales Dye it really went into full

2732
03:22:52,000 --> 03:22:58,040
operation in April and May of forty eight. It had

2733
03:22:58,120 --> 03:23:02,799
two and really only two like basic objectives. The first

2734
03:23:03,079 --> 03:23:10,879
was to swiftly and systematically take any any installations at

2735
03:23:10,920 --> 03:23:14,319
Vaca by the British civilian, military or infrastructural you know,

2736
03:23:14,399 --> 03:23:20,200
to occupy them, repurposed them as the infrastructure for the

2737
03:23:20,319 --> 03:23:23,719
NASA state and in the short term, you know, employ

2738
03:23:23,840 --> 03:23:30,520
them and as needed and you know, the duration of

2739
03:23:30,559 --> 03:23:33,200
the military operation at hand, which also gave them a

2740
03:23:33,280 --> 03:23:39,120
huge advantage. They also they were able to facilitate this

2741
03:23:39,280 --> 03:23:42,719
because there was a minority of prosign as British officers

2742
03:23:42,760 --> 03:23:46,959
on the ground and there's still this element you know

2743
03:23:47,040 --> 03:23:52,520
in the British ruling establishment which and people could run

2744
03:23:52,639 --> 03:23:54,639
entire valumes under. Why that is, you know, especially in

2745
03:23:54,719 --> 03:24:00,520
this era, especially in the era in question, when British

2746
03:24:00,520 --> 03:24:03,120
soldiers and civilians had died at the hands of Urgun

2747
03:24:03,280 --> 03:24:06,879
and other Zionist elements. I mean this, this completely stupefies me.

2748
03:24:07,079 --> 03:24:11,600
But there was enough support on the ground for Zionists

2749
03:24:12,360 --> 03:24:16,000
among the British garrison which was in the process of

2750
03:24:16,120 --> 03:24:20,559
bugging out. You know that this this eased them the

2751
03:24:20,680 --> 03:24:28,920
kind of tactical burden on accomplishing these things the Palestinians

2752
03:24:29,000 --> 03:24:36,000
had no I had no such advantage, okay, and they're

2753
03:24:36,040 --> 03:24:40,879
also again you know, the palaest what was the Palestinian leadership. Uh,

2754
03:24:41,680 --> 03:24:45,159
they were access adjacent, you know, so they were if

2755
03:24:45,200 --> 03:24:48,159
they were wanted men and if they weren't formally wanted,

2756
03:24:49,280 --> 03:24:53,959
you know, they they certainly would have become targeted if

2757
03:24:53,959 --> 03:24:57,639
they re emerged. You know. So this idea that oh

2758
03:24:57,680 --> 03:25:01,159
the Palestinians are just you know, just they're just fools.

2759
03:25:01,200 --> 03:25:06,479
There's just you know, savages who couldn't mobilize. That complete bullshit,

2760
03:25:07,959 --> 03:25:11,840
regardless of anybody feels about the Palestinian cause or anything,

2761
03:25:11,959 --> 03:25:16,399
that's just not that this is not true. The second

2762
03:25:16,559 --> 03:25:23,040
and the most important obviously aspects or ambition of a

2763
03:25:23,159 --> 03:25:27,120
plant d and of the war. Generally, it was to

2764
03:25:27,559 --> 03:25:32,040
ethnically cleanse what was to be the future Jewish state

2765
03:25:32,639 --> 03:25:37,000
of as many Palestinians as possible. The main direct action

2766
03:25:37,159 --> 03:25:40,799
element of the Zionis was Hagana, which had several brigrides.

2767
03:25:41,040 --> 03:25:45,479
They had several brigades. Each each brigade was assigned a

2768
03:25:45,639 --> 03:25:52,399
village or a township to occupy, and almost all of

2769
03:25:52,440 --> 03:25:56,559
these villages were ordered to be destroyed. And you know,

2770
03:25:56,639 --> 03:26:03,159
the people, the people expelled or or outright killed, and uh,

2771
03:26:06,239 --> 03:26:12,719
some of these uh. This led to some difficult situations,

2772
03:26:13,000 --> 03:26:17,760
especially in mixed areas where there wasn't great support for

2773
03:26:17,840 --> 03:26:21,959
the Zionist cause. I think for obvious reasons, where you know,

2774
03:26:22,040 --> 03:26:25,479
you had you had, Zion's paramilitary is literally extricating people's

2775
03:26:25,479 --> 03:26:28,440
Arab neighbors. In some cases they're inner marriages and things,

2776
03:26:28,559 --> 03:26:40,120
you know, like very ugly stuff. There was the most uh,

2777
03:26:41,360 --> 03:26:43,879
what really was kind of a game changer in terms

2778
03:26:43,879 --> 03:26:47,760
of in terms of world opinion as well as in

2779
03:26:48,280 --> 03:26:51,799
in terms of what we truly radicalized, not just the

2780
03:26:51,840 --> 03:27:01,159
Palestinians that ground, but sympathetic Arab regimes, especially those populated

2781
03:27:01,239 --> 03:27:08,120
by you know, by Sunnies, and you know, Palestine is

2782
03:27:08,159 --> 03:27:14,760
a Sunni majority. April twentieth, auspicious date, nineteen forty eight,

2783
03:27:17,680 --> 03:27:28,879
the dry Yasin massacre and Haifa had Gana assaulted Haifa

2784
03:27:29,920 --> 03:27:35,920
and everybody, everybody was everybody was killed, regardless of age, sex,

2785
03:27:36,840 --> 03:27:40,239
overall health, you know, women and children, it didn't matter.

2786
03:27:41,360 --> 03:27:45,799
And it was it was very it was very chaotic.

2787
03:27:46,840 --> 03:27:52,280
There's some reports of trophy taking from the dead, mumulation

2788
03:27:52,360 --> 03:27:55,600
of the dead, like people taking noses and ears. There

2789
03:27:55,639 --> 03:27:59,360
were reports that were phileral substantiated of of of young

2790
03:27:59,479 --> 03:28:03,440
girls and women being raped. This was not This was

2791
03:28:03,559 --> 03:28:08,799
not some well executed you know, like clean kind of

2792
03:28:08,840 --> 03:28:13,840
like idef operation or something. Okay, it was. It was

2793
03:28:13,879 --> 03:28:17,319
an ugly and brutal rasc and cree in all the

2794
03:28:17,600 --> 03:28:26,959
worst ways. And the response to that was as this

2795
03:28:27,120 --> 03:28:31,559
kind of as world opinion kind of became outraged by this,

2796
03:28:32,760 --> 03:28:36,280
you know, Desigonist leadership, they took to these kinds of

2797
03:28:36,479 --> 03:28:41,680
they took to these sort of performative endeavors of you know,

2798
03:28:42,040 --> 03:28:46,959
publicly encouraging Palestinians to remain in these mixed areas, you know,

2799
03:28:47,079 --> 03:28:48,879
saying you know, you'll have come to any harm, and

2800
03:28:52,159 --> 03:28:53,920
you know, everybody's rights are going to be honored in

2801
03:28:54,239 --> 03:28:57,760
the future Jewish state. I mean, which was I mean,

2802
03:28:57,799 --> 03:29:01,079
even if that was sincere on the art of political cadres,

2803
03:29:01,120 --> 03:29:02,360
I do not reason I think it was. But I mean,

2804
03:29:02,440 --> 03:29:06,040
let's say it was. You know, the situation on the

2805
03:29:06,120 --> 03:29:07,840
ground was what it was, and it had its own

2806
03:29:07,920 --> 03:29:13,079
momentum and it couldn't be stopped at that point in

2807
03:29:13,159 --> 03:29:17,479
my opinion, you know. But all told, all told, about

2808
03:29:18,479 --> 03:29:23,200
three quarters of a million Palestinians were you know, expelled

2809
03:29:23,239 --> 03:29:29,200
from the land. You know, probably about twenty thousand people

2810
03:29:29,319 --> 03:29:35,639
were killed outright. And again this was not excluding the

2811
03:29:35,680 --> 03:29:38,440
military age males. Quite the contrary. It was, you know,

2812
03:29:38,600 --> 03:29:51,600
categorically but that you know, the h and again the

2813
03:29:55,239 --> 03:30:02,079
the British had an arms embargo on Mandate Palestine. Truman

2814
03:30:02,159 --> 03:30:05,959
again was no friends of the Zionist regime. I mean,

2815
03:30:06,040 --> 03:30:11,520
even after you know, victory was declared in May of

2816
03:30:11,760 --> 03:30:15,559
forty eight, Truman issued it the fact of recognition that

2817
03:30:16,440 --> 03:30:20,079
you know of the zign Oft state, you know, but

2818
03:30:20,280 --> 03:30:25,680
he refused a dejiree acknowledgment of their legitimacy. The Soviet

2819
03:30:25,799 --> 03:30:30,040
Union was the first state to provide that. And the

2820
03:30:31,600 --> 03:30:36,399
designist elements in the ground, you know, Haganah first among them.

2821
03:30:37,239 --> 03:30:41,280
They'd gotten the small arms that they were able to

2822
03:30:41,360 --> 03:30:45,799
procure real largely from the East Block, you know. And

2823
03:30:45,879 --> 03:30:53,639
it goes to show you how the reason why Moscow

2824
03:30:53,760 --> 03:31:00,879
envisioned Israel Zionist Israel, is being adjacent to them ideologically,

2825
03:31:01,719 --> 03:31:03,520
I mean part of it is. I mean it is

2826
03:31:03,600 --> 03:31:06,600
because again I mean an old these points you know,

2827
03:31:07,440 --> 03:31:11,760
Zionism wasn't is the progeny of the same nexis of

2828
03:31:11,840 --> 03:31:18,680
causation as where the other you know, great European ideologies

2829
03:31:19,319 --> 03:31:22,399
of the twentieth century. I mean, I believe where Stalin

2830
03:31:22,520 --> 03:31:27,440
was sitting, he probably viewed he probably viewed the treatment

2831
03:31:27,479 --> 03:31:29,559
of the Palestinians and the way that he viewed his

2832
03:31:29,719 --> 03:31:33,840
own treatment to the nationalities, and well, you know this,

2833
03:31:34,040 --> 03:31:37,440
this is a way of creating a tabula rocess that

2834
03:31:37,639 --> 03:31:41,120
you know, some kind of Israeli socialism can be built,

2835
03:31:42,479 --> 03:31:47,840
you know. And the reason why, and again I mean

2836
03:31:47,920 --> 03:31:52,639
the the reason why that was an idea that could

2837
03:31:52,639 --> 03:31:56,000
be entertained, you know, and Stalin was the consummate realist

2838
03:31:56,079 --> 03:32:01,040
and it wasn't plumbing prone to flights of fantasy. It

2839
03:32:01,159 --> 03:32:06,840
made sense why you would think that, you know, but

2840
03:32:07,000 --> 03:32:12,719
ultimately developed you know again too, with the East Block

2841
03:32:13,120 --> 03:32:19,000
being uh, you know, rapidly anti Zionists, and and the

2842
03:32:19,120 --> 03:32:22,159
DDR carrying on and like literally an active war against

2843
03:32:22,159 --> 03:32:25,840
the Jewish state, you know, I think that, I mean,

2844
03:32:25,879 --> 03:32:29,120
that's that's demonstrative of Nolty's point two. I mean, all

2845
03:32:29,239 --> 03:32:31,479
all this stuff, I don't see how people can reject

2846
03:32:31,559 --> 03:32:36,399
the kind of the kind of Hegelian view of history.

2847
03:32:36,440 --> 03:32:38,559
I mean, with some qualifications, obviously, when they look at

2848
03:32:38,600 --> 03:32:40,639
how these things actually developed, you know, I mean, we're

2849
03:32:40,639 --> 03:32:44,000
not We're not just talking about arguments between historians and

2850
03:32:44,120 --> 03:32:49,120
kind of academic I've retier cloisters, you know, we're talking

2851
03:32:49,159 --> 03:32:54,280
about you know, war and peace phenomenon that actually developed

2852
03:32:54,559 --> 03:32:57,760
and was just positive and in terms of the outcome of.

2853
03:32:59,760 --> 03:33:00,520
Speaker 1: The Old War.

2854
03:33:04,040 --> 03:33:14,399
Speaker 2: It's uh, you know, and I think one of the uh,

2855
03:33:23,000 --> 03:33:31,319
one of the reasons, you know, one of the reasons

2856
03:33:31,360 --> 03:33:39,840
why it was such a parious state, you know, was

2857
03:33:40,200 --> 03:33:45,680
was for that reason. It wasn't just because you know,

2858
03:33:47,559 --> 03:33:50,520
in order to it was a it was a convenient

2859
03:33:50,920 --> 03:33:54,920
sort of ideological framing for the Eastern Block to say,

2860
03:33:55,079 --> 03:33:56,799
you know, oh, this is this is this is a

2861
03:33:56,959 --> 03:33:59,200
this is a fascist state like the bundest Republic, but

2862
03:33:59,280 --> 03:34:06,159
even worse because it's premised that overtly you know, racialist principles.

2863
03:34:07,799 --> 03:34:12,840
You know, it was because on some level everybody discerned

2864
03:34:12,920 --> 03:34:17,639
that there was something unseemly about Zionism, you know that

2865
03:34:17,879 --> 03:34:22,000
not not because like it's Jewish or not not because

2866
03:34:23,559 --> 03:34:26,920
you know of anything intrinsic to the Jewish character. If

2867
03:34:26,920 --> 03:34:28,760
people make that case that they want, I'm saying, that's

2868
03:34:28,760 --> 03:34:34,079
not what that that's not why it was a kind

2869
03:34:34,079 --> 03:34:41,079
of natural target the Soviet propaganda. It's because the the

2870
03:34:41,159 --> 03:34:43,280
first half of the twentieth century was it was was

2871
03:34:43,360 --> 03:34:47,959
catastrophic that was left saying, okay, and even somebody who

2872
03:34:47,959 --> 03:34:57,120
doesn't accept in an ethical or or conceptual terms, you know,

2873
03:34:57,639 --> 03:35:00,799
the claims the International War Crimes Tribunal Nuremberg or the

2874
03:35:00,879 --> 03:35:07,239
claims of you know, coreni historians who posit this, you know,

2875
03:35:07,399 --> 03:35:11,280
thunder Big theory of Germany and in folcdof Hitler is

2876
03:35:11,920 --> 03:35:14,879
as some kind of a it's some going to stand

2877
03:35:14,879 --> 03:35:17,120
in for Lucifer. Even somebody doesn't accept that at all,

2878
03:35:17,879 --> 03:35:20,239
you know, saying you've got to accept this sort of

2879
03:35:20,360 --> 03:35:24,920
exceptional state that's premised on this sort of like rabid

2880
03:35:25,079 --> 03:35:30,719
racial nationalism, the structures of which, although superficially similar to

2881
03:35:31,719 --> 03:35:36,959
familiar ones, are basically all oriented towards, you know, the

2882
03:35:37,360 --> 03:35:41,840
maintenance of this totally abnormal, you know, sociological and military paradigm.

2883
03:35:42,360 --> 03:35:45,000
You just got to accept all this, you know, because

2884
03:35:45,040 --> 03:35:50,719
it's essential going to you know, these uh, and the

2885
03:35:50,799 --> 03:35:53,559
reasons presented are things that you know kind of like

2886
03:35:53,680 --> 03:35:58,079
remind people the darkest kind of like the darkest times,

2887
03:35:58,120 --> 03:36:01,239
the Inner War years, and and what was suggested is

2888
03:36:01,920 --> 03:36:04,520
as being necessary for the survival of the race or

2889
03:36:05,399 --> 03:36:07,959
or the assent in working class or whatever else. I mean,

2890
03:36:08,000 --> 03:36:10,399
it's not something that people wanted to think about, you know,

2891
03:36:10,479 --> 03:36:14,440
and it's not something that people felt comfortable with, you know,

2892
03:36:14,680 --> 03:36:17,479
kind of raising at the banner of legitimacy, regardless of

2893
03:36:17,520 --> 03:36:19,799
they felt about or if they had any opinion about,

2894
03:36:19,840 --> 03:36:23,079
you know, like Jewish people and Zionism. And that's some

2895
03:36:24,840 --> 03:36:28,639
and that's also something Nolty said in one of his

2896
03:36:28,799 --> 03:36:38,239
last collection of essays. He said that ultimately, you know,

2897
03:36:38,959 --> 03:36:43,879
Zionism has to either fulfill it's sort of internal mission,

2898
03:36:44,440 --> 03:36:49,280
you know, as a monumental idea. It's not historically contingent,

2899
03:36:49,879 --> 03:36:52,600
you know, because Nulty agreed with Carl Schmid in that

2900
03:36:52,719 --> 03:36:59,280
regard and Heideger you know, I I I ideas of

2901
03:36:59,360 --> 03:37:07,760
their own self attained revelation, you know, and that's either

2902
03:37:07,879 --> 03:37:13,280
realized or it's not. And in the case of Israel,

2903
03:37:14,239 --> 03:37:16,760
that's only realized really by some kind of an end

2904
03:37:16,879 --> 03:37:20,680
sigue and the end in in in in context, that

2905
03:37:20,719 --> 03:37:23,920
would that would basically mean, you know, the the annihilation

2906
03:37:24,079 --> 03:37:29,799
of the Palestinians as a people, you know, is that

2907
03:37:30,000 --> 03:37:38,079
possible today? I mean physically, yeah, is there the political

2908
03:37:38,159 --> 03:37:40,399
will there. I mean to your point about Israel being

2909
03:37:42,159 --> 03:37:43,559
I mean not to sound like some sort of like

2910
03:37:45,040 --> 03:37:47,520
Marxist or something, but is is it? Is it fatally

2911
03:37:47,600 --> 03:37:50,440
compromised by its own internal contradictions? Like yeah, I think

2912
03:37:50,520 --> 03:37:55,360
actually maybe it is. But even were it not, you know,

2913
03:37:55,600 --> 03:38:00,719
I think, uh, I don't think they could. Uh I

2914
03:38:00,760 --> 03:38:02,959
don't think. I don't think the Israelis can start categorically

2915
03:38:03,520 --> 03:38:08,000
exterminating the people at Gaza any more than in nineteen

2916
03:38:08,079 --> 03:38:12,920
eighty resident could have assaulted Poland, you know, like the

2917
03:38:13,040 --> 03:38:15,879
Soviets did Hungary in fifty six, Like this would have

2918
03:38:15,920 --> 03:38:20,760
been like unthinkable considering the state of not even just

2919
03:38:20,840 --> 03:38:23,959
like world opinion. It's like conceptually like what people can tolerate,

2920
03:38:24,760 --> 03:38:29,959
you know, morally, But.

2921
03:38:30,200 --> 03:38:33,440
Speaker 1: It's also I mean, you talk about it being an anachronism.

2922
03:38:34,559 --> 03:38:37,879
It seems like, you know, one hundred million people were

2923
03:38:37,959 --> 03:38:40,799
killed in the first half of the century to prevent

2924
03:38:40,959 --> 03:38:42,799
states like Israel from existing.

2925
03:38:43,360 --> 03:38:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's this case of special pleading

2926
03:38:46,840 --> 03:38:49,760
where it's like, oh, but you know this is the

2927
03:38:49,840 --> 03:38:53,120
case of this is the case of Israel, because you know,

2928
03:38:53,159 --> 03:38:57,120
there's all these exceptional circumstances that threaten it, but without

2929
03:38:57,879 --> 03:39:01,719
you know, without without the neum narrative having like truly

2930
03:39:02,159 --> 03:39:08,399
kind of punctuated cachet in the collective memory, Like yeah,

2931
03:39:08,440 --> 03:39:12,159
that just doesn't the people that that that means nothing

2932
03:39:12,200 --> 03:39:17,680
to people. So yeah, exactly exactly, like why And that's

2933
03:39:17,680 --> 03:39:19,760
the point it make of people too, you know, like

2934
03:39:19,799 --> 03:39:22,840
when people like me or you know, some of our

2935
03:39:22,959 --> 03:39:29,120
right wing Palestinian and Iranian and Lebanese friends, when they

2936
03:39:29,200 --> 03:39:32,280
raise the issue is raelly race racialism, they're not saying like, oh,

2937
03:39:32,440 --> 03:39:35,040
Israel is they're real racialists. What they're saying is that

2938
03:39:36,559 --> 03:39:39,680
the regime tells you that everything Israel does is utterly

2939
03:39:39,799 --> 03:39:43,440
unacceptable in all cases, but Israel, Like that's the point,

2940
03:39:44,040 --> 03:39:46,000
Like the point isn't on its own terms, like is

2941
03:39:46,120 --> 03:39:48,680
racism bad? That that's totally that there's nothing to do

2942
03:39:48,760 --> 03:39:54,760
with it. It's why this special pleading and you know,

2943
03:39:55,239 --> 03:39:58,920
and and and even and and even notwithstanding that, like

2944
03:39:59,000 --> 03:40:01,319
why is this such an impat narrative? You know, like

2945
03:40:01,360 --> 03:40:06,319
you can't make the claim like people did during the

2946
03:40:06,399 --> 03:40:12,440
Cold War, that this is an absolute strategic necessity because

2947
03:40:12,479 --> 03:40:16,879
for better or worse, you know, America was in the

2948
03:40:16,959 --> 03:40:24,959
Cold War and its enemies were you know, the client

2949
03:40:25,000 --> 03:40:28,840
states of the Soviet Union, which were Israel's enemies. Now,

2950
03:40:29,319 --> 03:40:33,360
how much that over to the fact of America provoking

2951
03:40:33,399 --> 03:40:36,840
these circumstances and not practicing balanced diplomacy and regardless whether

2952
03:40:36,840 --> 03:40:38,520
the Cold or Whipment fought or not, Like that's not

2953
03:40:39,120 --> 03:40:42,920
important because like America was in the Cold War and

2954
03:40:43,319 --> 03:40:46,639
take like nineteen sixty seven or seventy three, you know,

2955
03:40:47,360 --> 03:40:49,639
like the die was cast. You know, it's not as

2956
03:40:49,639 --> 03:40:52,200
if like the brakes could be put on the geo

2957
03:40:52,239 --> 03:40:56,680
strategic situation as it had developed. So yeah, there's you're

2958
03:40:56,680 --> 03:41:04,200
absolutely right. Yeah, that's about There's some other stuff want

2959
03:41:04,239 --> 03:41:06,639
to take up, but again it's it's it's I kind

2960
03:41:06,639 --> 03:41:09,360
of want to conclude this like multi discussion, so I

2961
03:41:09,440 --> 03:41:12,440
want to say that for next time I want to

2962
03:41:12,520 --> 03:41:17,399
do I haven't decided yet. I'm I'm I'm rereading the

2963
03:41:17,760 --> 03:41:23,079
Sims Excuse me, I'm sorry biography of Hitler, which raises

2964
03:41:23,280 --> 03:41:32,879
really important concepts, including you know, Hitler contract Roosevelt, and

2965
03:41:33,000 --> 03:41:37,120
Hitler's understanding of America as not just you know, Germany's

2966
03:41:37,120 --> 03:41:41,600
primary addressary, but also of you know, the like like

2967
03:41:41,680 --> 03:41:45,120
the future of this planet hinging on you know, the

2968
03:41:45,520 --> 03:41:50,680
ability of civilizations to constitute themselves as superpowers, and how

2969
03:41:50,760 --> 03:41:53,000
like Europe is coming up short, you know, in every

2970
03:41:54,479 --> 03:41:59,399
in every category of criteria contra America. And this wasn't

2971
03:41:59,440 --> 03:42:05,920
just a question of a practical of a military ambition

2972
03:42:06,120 --> 03:42:09,799
or or a practical war planning and things that it

2973
03:42:09,920 --> 03:42:13,399
had to do with the entirety of Europe's historical mission

2974
03:42:14,319 --> 03:42:17,399
and which would, in Hitler's mind, would either succeed or

2975
03:42:17,920 --> 03:42:22,159
Europe would simply perish. And to understand that is essential

2976
03:42:22,280 --> 03:42:29,920
understanding Hitler and the war. It's essential understanding Roosevelt. And

2977
03:42:30,079 --> 03:42:31,959
that that the fact that Roseneld and Hitler and their

2978
03:42:32,040 --> 03:42:34,760
radio addresses were always like in dialogue with each other,

2979
03:42:35,520 --> 03:42:38,239
you know, not with Churchill, not with Stalin, not you know,

2980
03:42:38,360 --> 03:42:44,079
with not with the world generally, so we could I

2981
03:42:44,600 --> 03:42:45,000
was playing with.

2982
03:42:45,040 --> 03:42:49,000
Speaker 1: A you wanna do you wanna do? Uh do a

2983
03:42:49,040 --> 03:42:50,479
few of those with me?

2984
03:42:50,680 --> 03:42:53,000
Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, that's what I's getting at. I think

2985
03:42:53,000 --> 03:42:54,799
it'd be better suited to a series that we do

2986
03:42:55,159 --> 03:42:56,959
rather than me just like doing it on the podcast.

2987
03:42:58,120 --> 03:42:59,639
But I'd also want to I also don't want to

2988
03:42:59,680 --> 03:43:01,200
tell your business in terms of no.

2989
03:43:01,479 --> 03:43:05,000
Speaker 1: No, that sounds great and Yeah, I wanted to mention

2990
03:43:05,479 --> 03:43:09,719
everyone to hear this too. Thomas dropped uh the first

2991
03:43:09,799 --> 03:43:12,799
episode of season two of Mind Phaser with Jay Benden

2992
03:43:12,920 --> 03:43:16,239
and yeah as a banger. Yeah that was good, Thank

2993
03:43:16,280 --> 03:43:16,559
you man.

2994
03:43:16,719 --> 03:43:18,840
Speaker 2: The Burden's a prince man like he's he's a He's

2995
03:43:18,879 --> 03:43:21,079
a great guy and a great kind creator. He's also

2996
03:43:21,120 --> 03:43:24,200
a dear friend and he's nice to everybody. Always really

2997
03:43:24,360 --> 03:43:26,639
likes his appearances. Man, So that helps me obviously.

2998
03:43:28,600 --> 03:43:31,520
Speaker 1: He's uh, he's also he doesn't allow himself to be

2999
03:43:31,600 --> 03:43:36,559
trapped inside a box. He has a lot of different influences,

3000
03:43:37,280 --> 03:43:40,000
and I don't think he really cares what anybody thinks

3001
03:43:40,040 --> 03:43:43,159
about you know, about any of them either. He's just

3002
03:43:43,239 --> 03:43:45,559
you know, he has his opinions and I think they're solid.

3003
03:43:46,120 --> 03:43:47,959
Speaker 2: No, he's a great guy, man, he really is. I

3004
03:43:48,040 --> 03:43:54,680
can't I can't. I can't praise him effusively enough. Yeah, No,

3005
03:43:54,959 --> 03:43:56,239
this is great man. Thanks again.

3006
03:43:56,959 --> 03:43:59,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll plan that. We'll plan that out privately,

3007
03:44:00,440 --> 03:44:04,799
and yeah, hit some plugs real quick and while on this.

3008
03:44:06,159 --> 03:44:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the best place to find me is in my website.

3009
03:44:09,479 --> 03:44:13,200
It's Thomas seven seven seven dot com number seven hl

3010
03:44:13,280 --> 03:44:15,840
A S seven seven seven dot com. If you're gonna

3011
03:44:15,879 --> 03:44:18,200
like find that's the link to my Twitter. It's a

3012
03:44:18,280 --> 03:44:21,159
link to my Instagram, it's a link to my substick,

3013
03:44:22,079 --> 03:44:24,360
it's a link to my t gram and just like

3014
03:44:24,520 --> 03:44:29,000
random other stuffs on there. But uh, the substick is

3015
03:44:29,079 --> 03:44:31,920
where the pot is. It's capital R E A L

3016
03:44:33,120 --> 03:44:38,600
underscore Thomas seven seven seven. That's substack dot com. Because

3017
03:44:38,639 --> 03:44:40,879
we've launched season two of My Phaser, I'm gonna make

3018
03:44:40,879 --> 03:44:44,920
the season one content free. I'm gonna I'm probably gonna

3019
03:44:44,920 --> 03:44:48,280
do that on Monday, like like all season one, you'll

3020
03:44:48,280 --> 03:44:50,440
be able to ask it for free. I may or

3021
03:44:50,479 --> 03:44:55,239
may not upload it to YouTube or rumble, but for

3022
03:44:55,440 --> 03:44:59,680
now you can, Like you don't need any special app

3023
03:44:59,719 --> 03:45:02,040
for any thing you can just listen on. Just go

3024
03:45:02,319 --> 03:45:05,959
go to substack dot com and anything that's that's that's

3025
03:45:06,000 --> 03:45:07,600
not by a paywall. I mean you can just click

3026
03:45:07,639 --> 03:45:11,319
it and listen to it. But yeah, that's that's that's

3027
03:45:11,360 --> 03:45:11,760
what I got.

3028
03:45:12,840 --> 03:45:15,719
Speaker 1: All right, until the next time, Thank you as all

3029
03:45:16,159 --> 03:45:16,399
human