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Speaker 3: When your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice

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mix in some vodka. Call it a podcast from the

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Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by

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Victor Chrysler Dots. Gee Brahm, It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Well, hello and welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you forgetting your pot on. Thanks for telling a friend.

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That's how we spread the word about the pirate ship.

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Danny is not feel tonight, but he had said to me, Hey,

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I ran into somebody you know, and he said he

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wouldn't mind coming on the pod, and that would be

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Mark Grub.

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Speaker 2: I go grooves. It's been forever since I've seen grooves.

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Speaker 1: And two I guess I should say two former media

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personalities in town, right, I think that's fair.

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Speaker 2: That's fair. Mark. Now, what are you at?

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Speaker 1: Triple A Western New York and Central New York?

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Speaker 4: YEP, Triple A Western and Central New York. And I

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am a pr guy. Oh okay, I am all right.

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Speaker 1: So you get out there, so you get to be

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the pretty face that comes out and tell us list

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the travel conditions, right, you know where to go, what

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to do. By the way, triple A A great little

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thing to have in your pocket.

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Speaker 4: No doubt about it, especially this time he winter we've had.

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You don't want to be stuck on the roadside.

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Speaker 1: There's been when did winter show? I like it showed

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up in January, all of a sudden, it just came.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting. I've talked to a couple of people

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about it that I think this really has been a

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pretty normal winter when you look at the stats. It is,

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but because the last couple of years have been so

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unusually mild, that suddenly we're like, whoa, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: What's happening here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm you know, we turned that calendar to March.

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I'm ready to move on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, you know, I am too.

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Speaker 4: I don't mind if it comes in like a lion,

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just go out like a lamb.

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Speaker 1: So we've Mark is from originally from where in New Jersey, Westfield, Westfield,

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Northern Jersey, Northern Jersey and about twenty miles outside Manhattan. Okay,

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So and I grew up about ninety miles North in

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New York City of New York City, in New York State.

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So two people from downstate, you end up here and

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you dis like it, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well that place grows on you, it does. When

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I moved here, I literally knew no one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The only people that I knew when I moved here

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were the news director at channelten, Bill Seitzler, wild Bill

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back in the day, and Rich Funky. Those are the

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two people I'd interviewed with when I flew up here

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at interview. This was November of ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So when.

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Speaker 4: I packed up a U haul, Yeah, came north from

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West Virginia. That's where I was.

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Speaker 2: You were in West Virginia, Bluefield.

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Speaker 4: West Virginia, small TV station in Bluefield. Came up here

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to become the weekend sports guy at Channel ten. Yes,

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those were the only two people I knew.

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Speaker 2: All right, So let's.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back a little bit here. Because always wanted

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to be on.

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Speaker 4: TV, you know, I think I always wanted to be

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involved in sports.

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Speaker 1: Always want to be involved in sports. That Okay, what

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did your mom and dad do?

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Speaker 4: So my dad worked in Manhattan, He worked on the street.

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Speaker 2: He was a mortgage broker, okay.

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Speaker 4: And my mom was a stay at home mom.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you lived in Jersey. You go big school,

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I would assume that's a pretty populated area.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I went to a private day school.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my dad, you know, did well when I was

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a kid. And you know, I went to public school

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through sixth grade, and then seventh through twelfth I was

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at private day school. Yeah, or the Heartridge.

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Speaker 2: That's very Uh that's nice, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was great, it was.

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Speaker 1: And then you go, now during that time, any exposure

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to TV or sports broadcasting or anything in that those high.

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Speaker 4: School years, not really you know. I mean, obviously I

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was totally into it. I watched sports religiously. I played

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sports religiously, but I you know, that felt unattainable at

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that point in my life. It was just something that

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was over there, he enjoyed. It was hard to imagine

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myself participating in it. When I got into college, I

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wrote for the school paper. I went to Trinity College

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in Hartford, Connecticut, wrote for the school paper there, became

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the sports editor, and at that point I began to think,

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you know, you know, maybe I'll be a sports writer.

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You know, you've got trying to find a gig at

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a paper and do my thing.

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Speaker 2: Did Trinity? What did you go to school for?

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Speaker 4: So it's liberal arts school. I didn't really have a

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plan going in like a lot of people back in

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the day. It was more about just kind of you know,

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you know, experiencing college and trying to figure it out

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on the fly. You know, I've got I've got one

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child in college. Now it's just a different game in

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the sense that you know, when you're sixteen, seventeen, eight

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years old, eighteen years old, there's so much pressure to

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have it figured out at their age now because college

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is such a huge investment. You know what I'm saying,

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Yeah I do. You know, yeah, right, you know what

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I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't feel that pressure back then. I just

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kind of went there. I enjoyed it obviously, you know,

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I did the studying I had to do, but I

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had a good time. I played on the soccer team

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there and that was what was.

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Speaker 2: What Division three D three. Yeah, but still that's a commitment.

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Speaker 1: That's a to be a student athlete that I don't

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care at any level of the NCAA is a commitment.

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That's a job, your training and all that, and so

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you had to be pretty good man.

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Speaker 4: That was okay, all right, well that overstated it.

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Speaker 2: It was good.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, though, because I want to veer off to

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the college thing just just a little bit, sure, because

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I love the liberal arts thing. And I'll tell you

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a story that people have heard a million times in

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the podcast and radio and everything. But I I think

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the liberal arts and the knowledge for the sake of

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knowledge is such a wonderful thing to have, and it's

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great as you get older you kind of see the

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benefit of that. You talk to my fifteen year old son,

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my youngest by a lot, he'll tell you that, you know,

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I don't care.

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Speaker 2: I just get the homeward. Yeah, why to make me

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do this?

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Speaker 4: I agree with you. You know, I've talked to so

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many aspiring journalists through the years. You know, people that

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you know intern for me, or you know, you go

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to classrooms and talk to students, and I told them,

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you know, for me, I was a history major in college. Okay,

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never took a communications class, yeah never, Yeah, But what

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I did was I wrote. You know, an endless stream

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of papers. Reading and writing is just drilled into me. Now,

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I was a sports writer. I wrote for the school paper.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 4: And you know, so there was a journalistic component there.

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Speaker 2: Well was the deal with the day school that you

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went to.

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Speaker 1: In terms of in terms of a lot of times

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like uh, I put on my kids through a private

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school too, the secondary school, and it was a lot

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of the same thing, but his was more.

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Speaker 2: Of a religious base. It was a Jesuit based school.

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Speaker 1: So, but the reading and writing stuff sometimes is a

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little more rigorous.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree with that.

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Speaker 1: In the in the private school. And then nothing please,

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nothing against public school. I mean, I'm not knocking at all,

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nor am I. I'm just saying that your public school

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has to reach a mass amount here we can. It's

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a finite. You know, you want to pay, and you're

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you're buying a product almost you're buying a prep school.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. When I say I agree with you, I'm saying

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from my experience. Yeah, I felt like when I got

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to college that having uh you know, significant reading assignments

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and having papers that were five ten pages long. Yeah,

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it was not a new experience. You know, I'd been

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there and done it. The point that I would make

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about it, and the thing that I think is so

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transferable about those skills is that, you know, when you

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think of journalism, whether it's you know, broadcast, radio, print,

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whatever it is, you're talking about taking a large set

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of facts and distilling them down and sharing them with

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an audience, you know, viewers, listeners, readers, whatever it may be,

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in a way that's easily understood.

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Speaker 2: And so I.

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Speaker 4: Felt like, you know, that reading and writing and doing

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all that research and then distilling that information into a

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five page paper, ten page paper, whatever it was, was

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just building that skill set, it was, and what I

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ended up doing in television was just simply a just

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a shorter version of it, you know, where you had

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to drill down even deeper instead of a ten page paper.

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It was you know, in the beginning, when it was sports,

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it was you've watched a two hour basketball game, Give

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me the four baskets that tell the story of this game.

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It's the same skill set, it's just applied differently. And

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I pivoted into news later in my career. Same thing

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I always say, you know, you know, it's still an interview,

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whether you're interviewing the head coach of the Bills or

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the mayor of Rochester. You know, it's a function of

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conducting the interview, having a sense of what the right

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questions to ask are, listening to what they're saying, and

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applying the appropriate follow up. My wife has a master

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from Syracuse and communications. She went to New House. She

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was a top student there, and she understands things about

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communications that I don't because I never studied it. You know,

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everything that I know about is I learned on the fly.

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While I was in college. My senior year, I did

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an internship at a TV station. One of the guys

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on the soccer team had done it easy a I

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mean that.

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Speaker 2: Was the cell.

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Speaker 4: And I'm like, I could use one of those. Yeah,

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this will help the GPA. Let's do it. And I

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went in there. First day, I logged a yukon Boston

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college basketball game. It's like a four o'clock tip. Six

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o'clock news comes on, So the game ended right for

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the newscast, Sports is gonna come on at six twenty.

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It was like five of six and the guy looks

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at me. The sports anchor, Steve Savard was the guy

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wound up becoming the voice of the Rams called their

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Super Bowl games. Really he was amazing, is amazing, great

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great journalist, went and eventually pivoted to news as well,

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but he was the weekend sports guy and at the

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time there this is Channel thirty in Connecticut, and he said,

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just what I said earlier. He said, give me the

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four baskets that tell the story of the game. And

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I was like wow. And so I looked at my

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notes and I was like, well, you got to have

243
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this one because they built a twelve point lead at

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the half. You got to have this one because this

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is where Boston College kind of rallied early in the

246
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second half. You have to have this bucket because he

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was the leading scorer. He really carried them down the stretch.

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And you got to have this one because this is

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the dunk that punctuated the win. And ten minutes later,

250
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those highlights were edited and he's on the air talking

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about it verbatim the way I explained it to him.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And I walked out of that building that day and

254
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I said, and I now know what I want to do.

255
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Speaker 2: You graduate from.

256
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Speaker 4: Trinity in what year? Ninety four?

257
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Speaker 2: Ninety four? Okay, same as me. So then what what's

258
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the path? How do you so?

259
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Speaker 4: What I My path was this that when I finished

260
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at Trinity, I had done that internship. And that internship

261
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ended as I was graduating, and I basically I said

262
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to the sports director at the time, the guy that

263
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was running that office was a guy named Beasley Reese,

264
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the former Giant.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's the hell yeah, he's the head of

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the NFL Association.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So he was, you know, he had pivoted from playing

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to becoming a sports broadcaster. And he's and I'm like, look,

270
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you know, I want to keep this going. And he's like, well,

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he's like, I can't make you any promises. There's there's

272
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really nothing here for you. But if you're willing to

273
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keep coming in, let's let's see where it leads over

274
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the summer and goes from there. So I continued the internship.

275
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I basically did it full time that summer for no pay,

276
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for nothing I want. At the end of the summer, yeah,

277
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you know, it was like I literally had to go

278
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to the news director and I was like, you know,

279
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like I'm out of time here, like we gotta you know,

280
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either i gotta I gotta go, or you're going to

281
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hire me. And he said, look, there's nobody in the

282
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budget for you. I'm you know, at the begging of

283
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these sports guys, I'm going to bring you on as

284
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a part time sports producer, you know, putting the shows

285
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together behind the scenes. He said, the minute a piece

286
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of equipment in this building breaks, you're gone.

287
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Speaker 2: What happens from this station? This is in Connecticut.

288
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Speaker 4: Arts Hartford, Connectarket. This was the NBC affiliate there, Channel thirty. Yeah,

289
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sort of the cliff notes version is. I worked there

290
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for three years as a sports producer. You did twelve

291
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months After about a year, I was elevated to the

292
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main sports producer. You know, I'd done well, I'd kind

293
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of taken the ball and run quick. It was great,

294
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and I worked with incredible sportscasters. I was lucky. I

295
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worked with people that really were good at what they did.

296
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Speaker 2: When you're ran the sh shadow of New York City.

297
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Speaker 4: And well Beasley was calling NFL games for see at

298
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that point, you know, so there was you know, he

299
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was doing the Olympics for them, So there was a

300
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there was just a lot that I was getting exposed

301
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to in that area. But the longer I did it,

302
00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:17,759
the more there were to me. Two paths were emerging,

303
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,080
you know, like try to get to the network level

304
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,759
as a behind the scenes producer guy, or try and

305
00:14:23,159 --> 00:14:25,080
take what everything I had learned and try to do

306
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,840
it myself. Yeah, obviously in my early twenties, I was

307
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,080
that was an easy choice for me. Me too, I thought,

308
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if I fell on my face, then I'll go back

309
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and try and get a network producer. But I'm going

310
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to at least go for it. So I grinded it out.

311
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I put resume tapes together. They were horrendous, you know,

312
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they were just terrible. I had no idea.

313
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Speaker 2: What do you have any anywhere? I don't know, but

314
00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:46,000
you could ever show your kids or something.

315
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Speaker 4: I don't know if I have the resume tapes that

316
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,559
I sent out to get that first job, but I

317
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,919
definitely have the first sports cast that I did once

318
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I was on.

319
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Speaker 1: Those are brutally, yeah, but how they're brutal, but they're great,

320
00:14:57,039 --> 00:14:57,720
Yes they are.

321
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Speaker 2: It's been a.

322
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Speaker 4: Long time since I've seen it, but I I can

323
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still see it. So we're in headlights.

324
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Speaker 2: Is that where you went was at West Virginia?

325
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Speaker 4: So I went from there to West Virginia. There's a

326
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lot of great stories that we could leverage here. I'll

327
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:13,279
tell you how I got that gig. I mean, I

328
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,039
was sending these tapes everywhere. Yeah, I mean, and it

329
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,720
was like sending him into thin air, right, like nobody

330
00:15:19,759 --> 00:15:21,879
was looking at these tapes. No one was ever going

331
00:15:21,919 --> 00:15:24,320
to hire me for these jobs, but I'm mailing them

332
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,879
out and hoping against hope. I'll tell you how I

333
00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:29,679
got my first on air job. So, the guy who

334
00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:33,240
was the weekend guy who would replace Steve Savard that

335
00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:34,840
I that I told you about was a guy named

336
00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:39,759
Chris Raggy. Chris came to Hartford as the weekend sports guy.

337
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:44,639
Was so good that he left the weekend sports gig

338
00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:47,440
in Hartford to take a gig as a correspondent on

339
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,120
Entertainment Tonight. Real, that's how talented this guy was. So,

340
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,840
I mean, I really was surrounded by unbelievable role models,

341
00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:58,480
guys that really kind of showed me where the standard was.

342
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Not that I ever got they were, but at least

343
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,559
what to shoot for. So Raggy leaves and they're looking

344
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:08,279
to phill his position. And so when they're bringing guys

345
00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:10,919
in to audition for this role, one of these guys

346
00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:14,399
comes up from West Virginia, guy named Kevin Nathan. He's

347
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,799
still there, He's still at that station all these years later.

348
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,799
Over thirty years later. Great guy. But I saw I'm

349
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,440
putting these shows together for his sports cast, and he's like,

350
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,000
he's not auditioning, like you know, behind the scenes. They

351
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,840
brought him in for a weekend and he did the

352
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,559
weekends worth the shows, And I'm putting these sports casts together,

353
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:36,480
and I poured everything I had into those shows for him.

354
00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:38,639
I made them as good as they could be, and

355
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:40,919
he wound up getting the job. And when he came

356
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,440
back to start the job, he's like, look, I can't

357
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,559
thank you enough. You know, you you really help make

358
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,519
this happen. You maybe believe it could happen. You put

359
00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:52,759
incredible shows together. And we convinced this news director that

360
00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:53,679
I was the guy to hire.

361
00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: What was the motivating factor for you to have that

362
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,960
kind of dedicated always that way?

363
00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 4: I know, I learned a hard lesson. So when Savarred

364
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,200
left and the people were coming in to audition for

365
00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:10,599
his job, I was put off by it because I

366
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,279
felt like I should have got it on. Yeah, and

367
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,960
I didn't really lean into it. I was, you know,

368
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,200
I kind of just went through the motions. And when

369
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,359
Chris got hired and came there, it took a while

370
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,400
for we worked very closely together right off the bat,

371
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,359
and it took a while, you know, to to sort

372
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,680
of thaw through that fiction or friction rather because I was,

373
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,519
you know, I was jealous of it. And Chris was

374
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:35,519
only a couple of years older than me. So I

375
00:17:35,599 --> 00:17:37,680
was jealous of it, and I and I learned through

376
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,160
that experience that that that jealousy did not serve me well,

377
00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:44,920
that it was that it was that it was to

378
00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:48,039
my detriment, not to my benefit. So when the next

379
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,559
opportunity came around, I leaned into it and I did

380
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,119
everything I could for those candidates, whether they were or

381
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,319
whether they're good or bad. I gave them everything I

382
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,160
had and I and you know, I would say that's

383
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,799
something that I stayed with me. So long story short.

384
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,519
The guy, so Kevin Nathan, comes up, takes the job

385
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:06,799
in Hartford, and this is how the business works. So

386
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,119
Kevin Nathan's got a buddy who's in Bluefield. He takes

387
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,119
Kevin Nathan's job in Huntington, West Virginia. So now they've

388
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,480
got an opening in tiny little Bluefield. Well, guess who

389
00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:16,680
sends their tape to Bluefield?

390
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 1: Ye?

391
00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:19,440
Speaker 4: Guess what news director gets a phone call from Kevin Nathan,

392
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,240
the news director in Bluefield. I drive all the way

393
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,319
down there, I do an interview, I drive all the

394
00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:26,200
way back. He calls me. He says, you got the gig.

395
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,279
I put my whole life into a nineteen ninety three

396
00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:32,160
Toyota centric drive for the hills of West Virginia.

397
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 2: This is amazing.

398
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,640
Speaker 1: So I love the way that is, and I love

399
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,119
the whole story of not putting your all into it,

400
00:18:40,319 --> 00:18:43,920
being jealous and envious and then realizing that's not serving you,

401
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:46,000
and boom, look what happened.

402
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:48,519
Speaker 2: So now you go down there? Was that just for weekends?

403
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,079
Speaker 4: So I went I started there as the weekend sports guy.

404
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what do you do during the week So,

405
00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:55,880
like then you would be like a sports reporter.

406
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so they yeah, it's a full time job, full

407
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,880
time gig. Okay, I got it.

408
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 4: It didn't seem like full time money, but it was

409
00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:03,079
a full time gig.

410
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

411
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:06,759
Speaker 1: But you're a West Virginia where I'm thinking in myself,

412
00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:10,720
and I think most people would think a little bit backwards. Certainly,

413
00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:11,440
probably not.

414
00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 4: I didn't know what to expect. Yeah, you know, I

415
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:16,200
was in my mid twenties at that point. Like I said,

416
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,319
already been in the business for three years. I had

417
00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:21,839
a lot of experience about how to put sports cast together,

418
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,240
but had very little experience actually going out in news gathering.

419
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,680
And when you're down in the market like that, that's

420
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:29,880
you know, you got to go out. Most nights, I

421
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,480
would have my entire sports cast inside my camera, you

422
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,319
know what I mean. Like I went out and shot

423
00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:37,880
the entire sports cast. You come back, you edit all

424
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,880
those highlights together, and you throw it on the air

425
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,000
at eleven o'clock like you've had your feet up all night.

426
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 2: Right right now.

427
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,519
Speaker 4: But I was driving around the hills of West Virginia

428
00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:46,480
and Southern Virginia as well, is right on the border there.

429
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,400
And for me, yeah, I guess the way I approached it,

430
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,039
I wasn't really focused on what there was going on

431
00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,240
around me when I got there, I was just totally

432
00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,759
focused on the fact that I was getting this dream

433
00:19:59,839 --> 00:20:03,319
up tunity, yeah, you know, and I just took full

434
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,359
advantage of it. Finally got to Rochester three years later,

435
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,119
as I said, interviewed November ninety nine. Started here in

436
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,079
December ninety nine, one month before the Music City Miracle.

437
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:17,160
So it was mostly it was most it was mostly

438
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:17,640
my fault.

439
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: I forgot well were you Are you a Giant fan

440
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,440
or were you I grew up a Giant fan.

441
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did too, and people get mad at me.

442
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,920
They're like, well, you switch your loyalty, and I go, yeah.

443
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,039
But when you're here.

444
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: And you cover the guys like I did radio shows

445
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,559
from Camp, I got mad, you know, yelled at by

446
00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:37,839
Mario Williams. I sat with the different players all the

447
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,799
way through Doug Flutie. You talk to these guys, you

448
00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:42,240
can't help but root for them.

449
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: It's true, you just can't. I agree.

450
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 4: I think you're you know, certainly, as a sports caster,

451
00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:49,880
I tried to be as ejective as possible, you know,

452
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,000
when they struggled, and there were many years there where

453
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:54,759
they struggled. In my sports day, I don't remember that.

454
00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:56,720
I was very you know, I you know, I was

455
00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:00,400
as I was as clear as I could be about that.

456
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,680
I really didn't try to let my feelings enter the equation.

457
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:06,400
But yes, I mean, you know, the way I always

458
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,759
put it to people is, look, the better they do,

459
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,559
the better it is for you. You know, you want

460
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:12,839
to get to the playoffs, you want to have a

461
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,599
shot at the super Bowl. You want to be there

462
00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:16,759
for the parade. Of course, you want them to win,

463
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:18,559
you want them to do well. And you do get

464
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,759
to know some of them, you know, yes, and when

465
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:23,279
you do, it becomes you know, now you're rooting from

466
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,000
them because you love the story. You think they're a

467
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,319
great guy, or they've been really good to you, and

468
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,160
you know they've helped you do your job better and

469
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,240
all those things factor in for sure.

470
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: So you send it tape, are you still at West

471
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,279
Virginia And that's and you come came here from West Virginia,

472
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:39,440
from West Virginia, So you send it tape here and

473
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,960
it's again weekends, yes, yes, yeah.

474
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,319
Speaker 4: And for me, you know, the way I looked at

475
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:47,640
it when I was there was it was sort of

476
00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:50,720
like there it was like kind of college, you know,

477
00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:55,240
like West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Marshall, Virginia to a lesser degree.

478
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:57,039
And here it was a chance to sort of take

479
00:21:57,039 --> 00:21:59,599
that step from the college level to the pros with

480
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:04,880
the Bills sabers Ambergs Triple A baseball with the Red Wings. Yeah,

481
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,960
in fact that a lot of the kids are on

482
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,559
the Red Wings. When I moved here were guys that

483
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:11,480
I had covered in Bluefield because that back then it

484
00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:13,000
was the Orioles rookie affiliate.

485
00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: Oh that's yeah, that's right.

486
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,039
Speaker 4: And you know, the time it took me to get

487
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:17,319
from there to hear it was the same amount of

488
00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:19,160
time it took them to get from rookie ball to

489
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:19,720
Triple A.

490
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,519
Speaker 2: Wow. So they were playing rookie ball in West Virginia.

491
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,039
Speaker 4: Josh Towers was a guy and he pitched in the

492
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:27,319
two thousand All Star Game at Frontier Field and he

493
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,480
had a pretty good career in the majors. There's a

494
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,839
guy that was in Bluefield with me who was in

495
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,119
Rochester when I got here.

496
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: And guys ever.

497
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 4: Made the connection. You did, But it wasn't like, bro,

498
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:40,960
we did.

499
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: Did you transition to news there?

500
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,319
Speaker 4: I did not?

501
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: You did not. I took a year away. You took

502
00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:48,279
a year away. What did you do for the year?

503
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,759
Speaker 4: I worked in financial services? Oh for about a year.

504
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

505
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 3: You know.

506
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 4: And you talk about like timing in life, that was

507
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,599
not good timing. It was like nine when the world

508
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,000
was falling.

509
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: Oh that was when they were in the Golden turns.

510
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,799
Speaker 4: People. Yes, people were not exactly lining up to get

511
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,400
money advice from me, right, So, but it was a

512
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,839
great learning experience, no regrets about it. Made some incredible friendships,

513
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,640
learned a ton, helped some people out along the way,

514
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,839
But recognize that for me, you know, the prudent move

515
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,559
with a young family was to get back into a

516
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,400
situation where I could accentuate my skill set. You know,

517
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,599
I think, you know, the way I look back on

518
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,400
that experience, I think had I been like just starting

519
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,480
out in my early twenties, you know, I could try

520
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:33,839
to grind my way through that. But with a wife

521
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:35,960
and kids and a house and a mortgage and all that,

522
00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:38,599
I just need I needed to be in more of

523
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,680
a sure situation.

524
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

525
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's and I and as I said, you know,

526
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,440
it was not a great time financially country.

527
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: What happens to bring you back? Because I do remember

528
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,680
the CBS affiliate.

529
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know I had a chance to come

530
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:55,720
back to Rochester. And for me, you know, John Cutchko

531
00:23:55,839 --> 00:23:57,759
actually was the guy that kind of helped make it happen.

532
00:23:57,839 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: Yea.

533
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: You know, he was like, hey, we've got some openings

534
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,920
and I've talked to the news director about you. You know,

535
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,440
this could be a great opportunity for you to get

536
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,680
your foot back in the door, and you know, see

537
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,400
where it goes from there. And I saw it that way.

538
00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:11,359
I saw it as an opportunity to get back in

539
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,680
and then kind of grow it from there and try

540
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,400
and get onto the anchor desk. I knew that what

541
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,079
I You know, one of the things that you learn

542
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,119
in that industry, television news, is that well, just turn

543
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,079
on the news. You'll see it for yourself. There's a

544
00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:27,519
lot more news people than there are sports people. Oh yeah, yeah,

545
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,680
there's more reporters, there's more anchors, there's more shows. And

546
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,359
the other thing is, you know, when sports, you're always

547
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,920
begging like, oh, there's a big game tonight in Caledonia,

548
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,480
can we get some help getting some highlights from it.

549
00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:41,319
In news, you never have to beg for that. You

550
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,200
go where it is and they want you to get it.

551
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,960
So there was an element of sort of if you

552
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,240
can't beat them, join them. I ended up doing bill

553
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:50,400
the two things I said I would never do. I

554
00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:55,319
love mornings and news. And here's the beauty of it.

555
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,279
I did it voluntarily. Nobody forced me into it. They

556
00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:00,839
asked me if I want to do it, and I said,

557
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,319
you bet, I do because at that moment in my life,

558
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,000
it was absolutely the right wing. I love sports. I'm

559
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,720
a sports guy at heart, always have been. But I

560
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:13,720
learned to appreciate news. I learned to appreciate not so

561
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:17,400
much the murder and mayhem elements of it, right, but

562
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:22,319
the incredible people in this community that are passionate about

563
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,119
doing different kinds of things, either on a business level

564
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:30,720
or a filmthropic level, that that I didn't know about

565
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:34,079
and otherwise would never have known about. Sure, I love sports,

566
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,440
but you know, there tends to be a groundhog day

567
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,559
component to it. It's football season, it's basketball season, it's

568
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:43,200
baseball season. It guess what, it's football season again, you know,

569
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,720
you know there's an element of ben there done that

570
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,559
the names in the face has changed, and that keeps

571
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:50,759
it fresh. But in news, it's constantly evolving.

572
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: It is constantly evolving. And I like what you said

573
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,960
because I think I have found I don't watch a

574
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,319
whole lot of news anymore. And it's not out of

575
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,519
any other thing that I don't feel good when I

576
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,079
watched it.

577
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes I go.

578
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: And it sounds like a lot of people well, which

579
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:09,680
is and I understand.

580
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: But that's news, right, So sometimes I prefer to read

581
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,079
it than I do sometimes online because I can get

582
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:20,319
it and I can you know, I'll summarize articles for

583
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,759
myself for the podcast and things. Sure, but it's it's

584
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:27,839
a tough grind because you know, we report. I mean

585
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,720
the old adage that if it leads it or if

586
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,519
it bleeds, excuse me, it leads was, you know, the

587
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:37,000
way it was in news for a long time. I

588
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:39,880
think for almost a century that was sort of the saying.

589
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 4: Well, and the research consistently shows that when people are

590
00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:49,240
surveyed about television news, they will tell you consistently that

591
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,559
that that negative news is a turnoff. Yes, you know,

592
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:55,400
the you know, the bleeds it leads type of news

593
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,599
stories are turnoff. Yet at the same time, those same

594
00:26:58,599 --> 00:27:01,319
people will tell you those of the stories they're most interesting.

595
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:03,480
I can remember there would be days where you'd get

596
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,359
you'd get that exclusive story at two in the afternoon,

597
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,319
and you'd be holding it until six to air it.

598
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:13,039
Those days are gone, Yes, because when it happened to

599
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,000
two in the afternoon, everybody already knows about it. Yeah,

600
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:19,680
because but you better have it advanced off of that

601
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:24,319
point into a completely new direction by six o'clock because you,

602
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:28,000
me and everyone else we've already consumed the basics of it,

603
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,960
the it of that breaking story. What where can you

604
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:34,440
take the story now four hours later? Right?

605
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:37,279
Speaker 1: And and there are still some people who may not

606
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,680
have heard about it, but you're right most people. I mean,

607
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,440
I say all the time marked that people are walking

608
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,480
around with a TV station in their pocket, no question,

609
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:50,240
they can go on live and get huge numbers potentially, right,

610
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,559
the abilities there to go viral in a sense and

611
00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:58,279
have a story or any news get out.

612
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 4: Right, and you're seeing you know, I mean, I don't

613
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:03,559
know how deep in the weeds we want to go, sure,

614
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,759
but you know you're seeing a version of that play

615
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:08,839
out in terms of X with Elon Musk. You know,

616
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,200
that's that's really his whole point, that the legacy media

617
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:15,000
is dead, and that every one of everyone, everyone who

618
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,240
has you know, a smartphone and X load downloaded onto

619
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:20,400
it is a journalist.

620
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,519
Speaker 2: In theory.

621
00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:23,559
Speaker 4: There is some truth to that. But again I do

622
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,440
think that that while that there is an element of

623
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,240
truth there, you still have to uh, there still has

624
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:36,440
to be a room in the conversation for accuracy fact

625
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,400
versus opinion perspective advantage point. Even you know, where you

626
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,400
see something from a different angle, and it looks different

627
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,160
all of a sudden. So you may have captured something

628
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,359
one way, and it may give a certain view of

629
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,559
an event, and now people are often running with that

630
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,079
and suddenly some you know, another view of it comes

631
00:28:57,119 --> 00:29:00,200
in and it provides a whole different understanding of The

632
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,200
research is being done about this in real time, you know,

633
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,160
and the books will be coming out about it, and

634
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,559
there will be courses of study in college. As we

635
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,680
shoutinue to loop back in this conversation, where people will

636
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,920
make that their life's work. I mean, I still feel

637
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960
like that we are still in the wild West as

638
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:17,799
it comes.

639
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: To ther Man.

640
00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:21,519
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. And I know we

641
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:23,799
could say it feels like it's been around for a

642
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:27,720
lifetime over twenty five years, right, let's say, or a generation.

643
00:29:27,839 --> 00:29:31,960
I don't want to say a lifetime a generation, but yeah,

644
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:36,160
we are because because even that has changed, yes, and

645
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,839
the ability to stream, the ability to do all this,

646
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,599
So this information stuff is out there. If you want it,

647
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,480
you can you can get it, yes, And that's the

648
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,960
that's almost too much.

649
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:52,279
Speaker 4: Yes, And I guess you know the wild West component

650
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:54,920
of it, you know, from a journalistic standpoint is that

651
00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:58,039
there's no playbook. There are no rules of stablic that

652
00:29:58,079 --> 00:30:02,480
I like. Well, yes, yeah, right, I carry you. It

653
00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:04,759
has its advantages. It does, but think about it from

654
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:06,839
a journalistic standpoint. This is one of the things that

655
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:10,480
as time went on that I became I struggled with.

656
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,200
I guess is the fair way to put it? I mean,

657
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,519
you mentioned cronkite. You know where the where the mindset

658
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,039
there was middle of the road. You don't lean one

659
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:18,599
way or the other.

660
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: You literal the road.

661
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,799
Speaker 4: You present the facts as you understand them. Because because

662
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,799
you're understanding evolved sometimes you learn new information. But you

663
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,960
give the information the facts as you understand it, and

664
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,200
you let the viewer.

665
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:37,319
Speaker 2: Listener decide the conduit for the information.

666
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: So then you know this thing, you know, Facebook and

667
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,119
Twitter and Instagram, things like that come along, and now

668
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,039
you have journalists with their own page and they're building

669
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,680
their own brand, and they're telling you what they think.

670
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:55,720
Which it's America, it's a free country. You're allowed to

671
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:59,519
do that. But suddenly we've now without a rule book

672
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:01,240
or a play book or an understanding of how this

673
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,559
should work, we've blurred the lines. So now you have

674
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,799
a journalist who's basically laid out on Twitter how they

675
00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:11,559
feel about someone or something going and covering that for

676
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,000
the news. Right, well, how are we gonna you know,

677
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,160
where is the neutrality there? Am I getting an unfiltered,

678
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:22,319
unbiased view of this event, whatever it may be. I

679
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:26,400
struggled with that as as time went on, because there

680
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,359
was really no one to kind of stand up and say,

681
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,480
this is how we should do it. This is the

682
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,680
way to separate those two things. Where you can have

683
00:31:33,759 --> 00:31:36,680
your page and your interests, but you have to operate

684
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,880
in a way where when people turn on the TV

685
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:43,079
to watch you, they feel like they're getting again, an

686
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400
unbiased version of what you're telling them, that what you're

687
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,200
telling them is authentic, it's not filtered or skewed in

688
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,519
any way based on your beliefs.

689
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,559
Speaker 2: It's tough, oh got it like it's it's.

690
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,079
Speaker 4: Like, I think this is something that you know. I

691
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:59,319
think almost immediately I began to see was an issue

692
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:01,640
in it on aquivocally is an issue as we speak.

693
00:32:01,759 --> 00:32:04,839
Speaker 1: How did you handle social media for yourself when you

694
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:05,319
were on the.

695
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:07,839
Speaker 4: Yes, the answer is I tried to stay in the

696
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,599
middle of the road. In the middle of the road yeah, yeah,

697
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:14,200
I mean like to me, my, my, uh. Sort of

698
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,680
my line of where I felt like I could tread

699
00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:20,039
into an opinion would be like the bills are going

700
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:22,799
to the playoffs. Like if you have a problem with that, then.

701
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: You got me.

702
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: If things will swing back a little bit to the

703
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,279
more of let's be let's try to bring some rationale

704
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,880
into the moment here and look at things. I'm not

705
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,559
saying that everything we're seeing is not as it is.

706
00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:37,559
Maybe it is, but let's really kind of prove it

707
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:41,279
before we start swinging, because people are punching. Yeah and

708
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,480
figuratively and literally.

709
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,759
Speaker 4: Yes, and and it's amazing how quickly we can, you know,

710
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,079
dig our heels in and decide we're not moving off

711
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,599
that position, you know, in a moment's not in a moment,

712
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,160
one misinterpreted message.

713
00:32:58,799 --> 00:32:59,759
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you.

714
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,559
Speaker 4: Know, unwined, you know, decades of friendship.

715
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,799
Speaker 2: It's crazy, it is crazy. Do you miss the news

716
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:06,119
at all?

717
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 4: So I get that asked that question.

718
00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure you do.

719
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,559
Speaker 4: I mean here's what I would say. Certainly, don't miss

720
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:18,319
the hours I described, Yes, I don't miss the murder

721
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:21,279
in the mayhem. You know, it's it's just troubling, it's sad,

722
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:25,799
it's awful. What I do miss are the people I

723
00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:30,279
worked with, the relationships and the atmosphere of the newsroom.

724
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there was an energy.

725
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:36,839
Speaker 4: There's an energy in there. And I think what I

726
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,640
what I used to tell students that I believe this

727
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:41,319
is that people that find themselves in that environment are

728
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,480
naturally curious.

729
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,599
Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that's a good thing to be

730
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:44,799
in the.

731
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,839
Speaker 4: You know, intelligence lack of intelligence, whatever, But you are

732
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,680
just naturally curious. You're inquisitive. You look at things and

733
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,119
you ask questions like why is that that way? What

734
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,119
if we turned it like this, would it be different?

735
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: You know?

736
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,759
Speaker 4: You just your mind works that way. And I think

737
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,480
when you're around other people that have that kind of

738
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,640
outlook on the world, that it's it can be a

739
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,319
really interesting place to be. No two days were alike, right,

740
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,000
And I think there's a lot to be said for that.

741
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:10,880
I think, you know, I'm sure there are people that

742
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,519
would think about their life. Oh it's the same old routine,

743
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,840
you know, after day, you know, living for the weekend.

744
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,079
You know, look, I get it some degree. I'm living

745
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:21,400
for the weekend now, and I'm happy about it. But

746
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:23,800
there was there was an energy in there that I

747
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,000
think is hard to replicate in most other work settings.

748
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,960
You know, they didn't hit a home run, they hit

749
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,320
a granny with Josh Allen.

750
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: It's so strange because when I go back to that

751
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,159
draft and I think people saying we picked the wrong.

752
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:39,039
Speaker 4: Josh, I thought they picked the wrong Josh.

753
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,639
Speaker 2: Josh Rose in this conversation, I was that guy. Was

754
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:42,119
that guy?

755
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we was, accuracy was under question and all that,

756
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,119
and we've seen what he's become or maybe always was,

757
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,320
maybe always was.

758
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,039
Speaker 2: I mean you developed you. I always say, I.

759
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:58,079
Speaker 4: Think his coaching with Dable. I think when he first

760
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:02,119
got here was absolute game changer. I mean you look

761
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:04,239
at him from that first year to that second season.

762
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,920
He was a different football player.

763
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: And that's that's his hard work.

764
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: But there's an element of coaching there as well, helping

765
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:15,440
him understand uh to uh, to connect the mind to

766
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,159
what the body is capable of, you know, to put

767
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,159
those two in sync where they're working together.

768
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: Not necessarily so funny because you could have some great coaches,

769
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:25,400
but just dummies that you're coaching. And I use the

770
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,039
term loosely, but that just aren't able to grasp it

771
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,679
or physically perform it. And here comes Josh and so

772
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,679
now you're he's not just a great player, but also

773
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,519
you're great coaches. But don't get that guy and you're terrible.

774
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 2: You may be as good as any other coach in

775
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:41,480
the league.

776
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 4: It's amazing when you put those two elements together, because

777
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:49,639
any any anything that's lacking in that equation and it

778
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:52,039
falls apart. You don't you don't get to where you

779
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:54,800
could go. You're right, I mean you think if Alan

780
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,119
had gone to a lot of other teams, how does

781
00:35:58,159 --> 00:35:58,800
this play out?

782
00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: I don't know.

783
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 4: We don't know that.

784
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,679
Speaker 2: We don't.

785
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,639
Speaker 4: I think it's successful, but I don't know if it's

786
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:07,239
as successful as it's been. And really enjoy uh. The

787
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,440
driving reason for making this change in my life is

788
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,039
to just enjoy these moments with my family, all of them.

789
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:17,280
Savor them. And then you know what they say, you know,

790
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,679
right off into the sun, right.

791
00:36:18,639 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: Off into the sunset. Who knows could be anything? Could

792
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,519
reinvent myself. I could, Professor Gruba, That's all I'm saying.

793
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,000
That's such a nice.

794
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: Way about you.

795
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: You can sing well to the kids, tell them the

796
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,719
stories from some ports through awesome I think it would

797
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:33,079
be awesome.

798
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,039
Speaker 2: This is great for Mark Gruba. I'm Bill Moran. We'll

799
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:50,239
see you next week. Didn't know what to do. I

800
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,039
TV