Speaker 1: This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2: All right, well, welcome back to another weekend fix. Here
Speaker 2: we go. So I'm so enthusiastic because I'm very It's
Speaker 2: a weekend. It's the freaking weekend, baby, and I'm about
Speaker 2: to have me some fun.
Speaker 3: I love a twenty ten reference.
Speaker 2: Even if it is from Mark Kelly.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's more like nineteen ninety six. Huh Ignition?
Speaker 1: What year mission?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the remix to Ignition. Idiots.
Speaker 2: I'm fresh out the kitchen. Here we go. All right,
Speaker 2: so this is These are some of the stories. You know,
Speaker 2: we couldn't fit them in. We only had twenty hours
Speaker 2: to get through the rest of the weeks.
Speaker 3: At ninety eight maybe ninety eight.
Speaker 2: I would say it was even earlier than Jacob.
Speaker 3: Will you google?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 3: Drive me crazy?
Speaker 1: I'm a grandmother and I need to know actors when
Speaker 1: I see them on the screen.
Speaker 3: I need to know what else they were in immediately,
Speaker 3: Oh what year? Everything came out?
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that you mentioned the grandma thing. There
Speaker 2: was an article specifically that makes you feel old, and
Speaker 2: it was about.
Speaker 3: Which one you're gonna write down?
Speaker 2: All right? This one is called Your Your AI.
Speaker 3: Two thousand and two for Ignition.
Speaker 2: It was later than I woul.
Speaker 1: Like. It's been in my life for much longer than
Speaker 1: twenty three years.
Speaker 2: My son is older than that song.
Speaker 3: That's terrifying. You're an old man.
Speaker 2: That is also true.
Speaker 3: Go on to the article.
Speaker 2: It's called Your AI Lover Will Change You, and it's
Speaker 2: by a guy in the New Yorker magazine, a guy
Speaker 2: named Jason Lanier, sorry Jaron Lanier, who calls himself a technologist.
Speaker 2: And before we get into the what the article says,
Speaker 2: let's discuss what a technologist is. Okay, because I've got
Speaker 2: a question for you about what sex? Yes, okay, well
Speaker 2: I am here for it. But let's discuss the technologist
Speaker 2: aspect of this. First. I had to look up what
Speaker 2: the term meant. I could kind of guess what I
Speaker 2: think he is. But a technologist is somebody who theorizes
Speaker 2: about philosophy of humanity impacted by technology, okay, and technology
Speaker 2: that's impacted by humanity. But obviously that's sort of a
Speaker 2: that is more of a one way street, since technology
Speaker 2: doesn't exist without humans. These are the things that we create.
Speaker 1: It sounds fascinating, except for how do you get to
Speaker 1: any other conclusion? Then technology screws us all up.
Speaker 2: Well, he seems to think that there are benefits like.
Speaker 1: Medicine benefits probably sure, yeah.
Speaker 2: Benefits, transportation, I mean easy that our lives are a
Speaker 2: whole lot easier now than they were one hundred years
Speaker 2: ago than they were fifty years ago.
Speaker 1: Technology makes it easier to get, you know, nudes from
Speaker 1: that strange girl that you met on the subway.
Speaker 2: Right, that is one thing that makes it makes sense, But.
Speaker 1: It also makes it harder for you than to go
Speaker 1: home to your wife with those news.
Speaker 2: Right. It doesn't. It doesn't fix all of humanity's problems.
Speaker 3: Right anyway, Sorry to digress, but he.
Speaker 2: Has this interesting discussion in this long article about the
Speaker 2: biological human need of relationship. It's not just a it's
Speaker 2: not just a social need. There's biological benefits to us
Speaker 2: living in community with other people, with other individuals, with
Speaker 2: other with family members, with spouses, with loved ones, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, there's a benefit to it there. It's been
Speaker 2: documented over and over and over again. But his specific
Speaker 2: tack here is for those people who don't do that well,
Speaker 2: and he kind of he dips into the whole. You know,
Speaker 2: people on the autism spectrum or people who just are
Speaker 2: not good at relationships. If you were to give them
Speaker 2: a surrogate for that, would it benefit humanity in the
Speaker 2: long run.
Speaker 1: Well, we talked about the eighty twenty rule that has
Speaker 1: entered the zeitgeist. It's very interesting to hear it pop
Speaker 1: up in different conversations. Eighty twenty and in particular, one
Speaker 1: of the ways it's popped up recently is that eighty
Speaker 1: percent of women are only interested in twenty percent of men.
Speaker 2: The kid in that Netflix show Alescence reference.
Speaker 1: That, right, And that's not the first time I've heard that,
Speaker 1: And is it true. Let's operate under the principle that
Speaker 1: it is true that eighty percent of the women are
Speaker 1: only interested in twenty percent of the men. Then that
Speaker 1: leaves out eighty percent of the men who feel left out,
Speaker 1: whether it's in cells or just people who, like you said,
Speaker 1: don't do well in terms of communicating. This is kind
Speaker 1: of tailor made for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you believe that's true.
Speaker 1: But that goes back to my initial question of sex.
Speaker 1: Who wants what man wants to spend hours texting with
Speaker 1: an AI chat bot who even presents as like this
Speaker 1: hot girl.
Speaker 2: If you're not, if there's no conclusion having sex, there's
Speaker 2: no culmination, or.
Speaker 3: There's a promise of sex at some.
Speaker 2: There's no flick and tickle at the end of it.
Speaker 1: You're ruining the romance that I'm trying to provide via
Speaker 1: the AI chat bought.
Speaker 2: Well again this guy. Jaron Lanier writes in this article
Speaker 2: that you can basically come to the conclusion that love
Speaker 2: is real, Our consciousness is real. Love is real, and therefore.
Speaker 1: Love is so different though. It's like you can love
Speaker 1: somebody and not want to have sex with them, but
Speaker 1: you need the relationship where it's the love and the sex.
Speaker 2: That romantic relationship usually ends in that or some aspect
Speaker 2: of it, some kind of intimacy like that. But he
Speaker 2: describes love as a target to be conquered. Now, when
Speaker 2: you're a teenager, when you're when's the first time you
Speaker 2: think you had a crush on a boy? Me well, eleven,
Speaker 2: twelve thirteen, somewhere much earlier.
Speaker 1: I recently found old diaries in my mom's house, and
Speaker 1: I had a crush on somebody whose name I can't
Speaker 1: remember when I was about six years old, and I
Speaker 1: mean I filled up pages writing his name over and over.
Speaker 3: What a little psycho, What a little fucking psycho.
Speaker 2: I would say, that is what I was inaccurate. I
Speaker 2: was afraid to make eye contact while you were reliving that.
Speaker 2: But those those earliest times when we think of attraction,
Speaker 2: that's six. I'm not going to say it was a
Speaker 2: physical attraction, although you were attracted to how he looks.
Speaker 3: Probably with dave L was he's not listening, I trust No,
Speaker 3: that's just.
Speaker 1: How you refer to everyone in the first grade. You
Speaker 1: know their first name and then their last initial.
Speaker 2: Because that's the way the teacher did it.
Speaker 1: Sure, because there was like three daves, you know, Dave L,
Speaker 1: Dave R, Dave S. Anyway, Dave L probably to me
Speaker 1: at one point and the infatuation went out the window.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that makes the whole AI thing I
Speaker 1: think attractive is that it's easy to be infatuated with
Speaker 1: someone who's not really someone. It's easy not to have
Speaker 1: a real life relationship. It's easy to watch porn and
Speaker 1: do your thing and not have to deal with what
Speaker 1: does she want for dinner? And she gonna want to
Speaker 1: talk and I want to watch this show? Why does
Speaker 1: she want to watch this show?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, there's so much ease that goes into an AI relationship.
Speaker 1: If you just want that back and forth banter and
Speaker 1: then you're going to go and she'll talk dirty to
Speaker 1: you whatever, and you can can take care of your
Speaker 1: of course, that's an easy thing that's going to sweep
Speaker 1: the planet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you said this this in the context of
Speaker 2: what do you call it, the we two movement? Me
Speaker 2: too movement? Sorry? We two? Me too? What a man
Speaker 2: thing to say, but that I've forgotten it already too.
Speaker 2: You've said this in the context of the me Too
Speaker 2: movement that there were some allegations that were made that
Speaker 2: did not rise to the level of being so offensive
Speaker 2: that that person, the man that did it, needed to
Speaker 2: be canceled or fire to whatever. There's a certain aspect
Speaker 2: of it that is at the base level. Sometimes you're
Speaker 2: gonna have to learn how to deal with dickheads. You're
Speaker 2: gonna have to learn to deal with those guys that
Speaker 2: are gonna whip it out and put it in your
Speaker 2: face or they are going to push you around, not physically,
Speaker 2: but I mean emotionally. And you have to find a
Speaker 2: way to deal with them that doesn't make that person,
Speaker 2: doesn't excuse their behavior, but it empowers you to get
Speaker 2: through situations that otherwise you would crumble and fall. And
Speaker 2: I think one of the worst aspects of an AI
Speaker 2: chatbot replacing a relationship or real relationship is they don't
Speaker 2: push back. The way that AI chatbots are designed is
Speaker 2: to continuously learn from you, learn what makes you happy,
Speaker 2: and then continue to do those things.
Speaker 3: There are no doubriats, calibrate to what makes you happy totally.
Speaker 1: If the AI bought says something that's not that you're
Speaker 1: not down with, or you don't respond in kind, then
Speaker 1: they're going to recalibrate and give you what you want
Speaker 1: to hear. How dangerous is that? I mean it sounds lovely,
Speaker 1: but also a little pushback is good.
Speaker 2: Well again, it's the way that we grow. We human
Speaker 2: beings grow, whether it's physically like muscles or emotions or
Speaker 2: whatever is you have to go through something difficult. Yeah,
Speaker 2: think about what when you work out, you tear down
Speaker 2: your muscle fibers so that when you eat and relax,
Speaker 2: those muscle fibers build back bigger.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Jacob's thumbs up from Jacob. That's how it works. And
Speaker 2: then emotionally, if you don't have experience in some name
Speaker 2: it in grief or something like that, you have to
Speaker 2: go through it in order to learn how to deal
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sucks, doesn't it?
Speaker 2: And in these AI chatbots, if all they're going to
Speaker 2: do is appease you, you don't know how to deal
Speaker 2: with frustration with another person.
Speaker 3: Right, it's easy. It's easy.
Speaker 1: And as we as humans go for the easy route
Speaker 1: all the time, sometimes it's the hardest route, right, if
Speaker 1: you go for the ease all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, how popular are cold plunges right as a wellness thing?
Speaker 2: It's not because it I listen, I've done. That's what
Speaker 2: a freaking racket, totally.
Speaker 1: I just cold water in your shower, get into it
Speaker 1: for five minutes instead of an entire run, you a
Speaker 1: cold shower for twenty bucks an hour, whenever they charge
Speaker 1: at those places, the whole cold plunge, red light therapy,
Speaker 1: give me a freaking break.
Speaker 3: What a racket.
Speaker 2: But you're doing something, how.
Speaker 3: About you know what it's like? Collagen? It's like it's
Speaker 3: advertised all the time to people my age, right, Like.
Speaker 2: What's your age old. Okay, So like.
Speaker 1: It's like that's not I love the idea to fight
Speaker 1: these things. I love the idea of college or cold
Speaker 1: plunges or whatever. Look at your everyone's gonna get old,
Speaker 1: our skin's all going to sag. The cold plunge is
Speaker 1: a fad, just like every other fad. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm maybe coming from a place of negativity.
Speaker 3: But like it's all bullshit. Well, it's all just to take.
Speaker 1: Your money and feed off your insecurity at that particular moment.
Speaker 3: And oh, you're such a badass because you took the
Speaker 3: cold plunge. You're like a polar bear. Like, go take
Speaker 3: a shower and for free.
Speaker 2: And the difference is those people who tell you I
Speaker 2: do a four minute cold plunge every morning, right, versus
Speaker 2: the people who do a four minute cold plunge every
Speaker 2: morning and don't advertise it. Yeah, they're not going to
Speaker 2: talk to you about it. Maybe they do get a
Speaker 2: benefit from it, because for whatever reason, it's a difficult thing,
Speaker 2: first thing in the morning or whenever you do it.
Speaker 2: It's a difficult thing to sit there, and it's a
Speaker 2: mind exercise to get yourself to do something.
Speaker 3: Doesn't a little bit of that go away when you
Speaker 3: start advertising it.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. Like the difficulty of it, the
Speaker 2: personal hermol pain you said, bullshit that you have to
Speaker 2: go through to get to that point, whatever that is,
Speaker 2: diminishes when you tell other people that you're doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is, like I get it,
Speaker 1: because if I do something that makes me feel amazing,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you about it. I want to
Speaker 1: share because I want you to maybe try it out.
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll make you feel good too. But there's a
Speaker 1: difference between sharing information and you know, posting about it.
Speaker 1: I guess, although I don't feel like people are doing
Speaker 1: that as much anymore. This guy again, maybe I'm just
Speaker 1: not spending a lot of time on the talking about This.
Speaker 2: Article from New Yorker called Your AI Lover Will Change
Speaker 2: You Jaron Lanier. He goes to these artificial intelligence gatherings,
Speaker 2: and he says that one of the things that he
Speaker 2: hears over and over again is all teenage girls are
Speaker 2: going to fall in love with these bots with these
Speaker 2: AI tests. And I was going to ask you I would.
Speaker 1: Go further, not just teenage girls, because the thing about
Speaker 1: men are wonderful, tell me more.
Speaker 3: I love men.
Speaker 1: But the communication is not always on point. Women are
Speaker 1: more communicative, and if could you imagine a man who
Speaker 1: brings all this stuff that men bring, but could also
Speaker 1: be intuitive when it comes to telling you what you
Speaker 1: want to hear and communicating with you. Oh, end end
Speaker 1: of game, right there, you know I put it. I
Speaker 1: phrased this more so for men earlier on, saying it's
Speaker 1: so easy to talk to a woman and get all
Speaker 1: the affirmations and then you know she sends you hot
Speaker 1: AI picks and whatever, and you can women just the same,
Speaker 1: women just the same. I mean for the communication alone, right,
Speaker 1: I mean a guy who a chatbot who tells you
Speaker 1: like those genes dot compliments right, like not your genes
Speaker 1: look great?
Speaker 3: Well, although that would be lovely.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing with the me too thing compliments
Speaker 1: that you don't find them anymore. It but but you know, like,
Speaker 1: could you imagine a specific thoughtful compliments so to speak?
Speaker 3: Men?
Speaker 1: It's not a knock on guys. They're just not a
Speaker 1: built to communicate that way. That's why women give each
Speaker 1: other these compliments, right, because we are built that way
Speaker 1: to communicate specifically in the compliment, realm specific compliments like
Speaker 1: if I see dep re mark, I'm like, wow, I
Speaker 1: love those pants. That color looks amazing, your eyes look
Speaker 1: really pretty with that hat or whatever. Like we're just
Speaker 1: programmed to be specific like.
Speaker 2: That, but isn't. And because AI would fill that void,
Speaker 2: would give you that kind of language back, or give
Speaker 2: you sort of or even care.
Speaker 3: To hear what you have to say.
Speaker 2: Trust me, it is.
Speaker 3: My housband tries really hard. He'll be like, how is
Speaker 3: your day?
Speaker 2: Does he stifle every time?
Speaker 1: No, but he makes the effort, even though that runs
Speaker 1: probably counter productive to what he cares to here, Rather.
Speaker 3: You be there those to make the effort, right.
Speaker 2: He would rather you come home or he comes home
Speaker 2: a hug and a kiss and just sit quietly for
Speaker 2: a little bit in the same room, right that, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Would be the meal be in the same room close.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that would recharge his battery rather than you just.
Speaker 1: Like but imagine, imagine I come home to my AI
Speaker 1: bought and you can just unload and I'm like in
Speaker 1: the AI bots like how was your day? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: Gary was a complete asshole today, and the AI bought
Speaker 1: would be like, I know.
Speaker 3: So bad, remember when he said this?
Speaker 2: And I'd be like exactly, and it plays back the
Speaker 2: actual audio. But but what it does is and I
Speaker 2: think that this is one of the It can cause
Speaker 2: the biggest problems in a relationship, but it can also
Speaker 2: be the best part of the relationship. Is there's you
Speaker 2: and whoever you're in a relationship with are different people,
Speaker 2: and you have to be able to learn. You have
Speaker 2: to learn allow yourself to learn what makes that person tick. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what you can give them to make that happen. Where
Speaker 2: your limitations are when that happens.
Speaker 3: But it's all changing. It's an ever changing post constantly.
Speaker 2: If you're in a long term relationship, then then it's
Speaker 2: always going to be different or you know, and you
Speaker 2: may it may come back to the original plan the
Speaker 2: way that you were when you first met the person.
Speaker 2: But there's a friction there that makes you grow, that
Speaker 2: makes you grow. You go through those difficult things together
Speaker 2: in the relationship, and the relationship grows stronger hopefully as
Speaker 2: a result of it.
Speaker 1: Or you kill each other and end up on Dateline
Speaker 1: with Keith Morrison narrating your life story.
Speaker 2: But it happens that a great ending. All that happens
Speaker 2: less often, I think. Then I guess there's three versions
Speaker 2: of it. One as you end up killing that person
Speaker 2: one as you just fall out of love and you
Speaker 2: just get bored together. That's really the worst or whatever.
Speaker 3: I would be rather my husband kill me than become indifferent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to mark that and we're going to
Speaker 2: send that off.
Speaker 3: Keep that in our I mean, I know that you
Speaker 3: really loved me if he killed me.
Speaker 2: Oh really?
Speaker 3: Isn't that how it starts?
Speaker 2: But then the friction ends up when it turns to sex,
Speaker 2: when it turns to something physical. Anybody who's worked on
Speaker 2: these or lived with this AI chatbot for for their relationship,
Speaker 2: they don't have There's no there's no culmination. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that that sex is the ultimate end for
Speaker 2: a relationship, but it's an important thing that makes us human.
Speaker 2: So if you don't have that at the end.
Speaker 1: Of it, it's just yea and all you know is
Speaker 1: masturbating to porn, then you're gonna be fine with that
Speaker 1: your whole life.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think there's a I think
Speaker 2: there's an internal ingrained probably desire to be with another person.
Speaker 3: I think so, But is it worth or how about
Speaker 3: I hope there is.
Speaker 2: I hope that that's not enough for people.
Speaker 3: Well, it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Either you're going to fall in love with your AI lever,
Speaker 1: but your AI lever won't kill you.
Speaker 3: Guys, it will never kill you. You'll never know it
Speaker 3: truly cares.
Speaker 2: This This whole article is pretty funny.
Speaker 3: Is this all written by the technologist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again he's he's more in favor sex. Do
Speaker 2: you think he's getting Well, that's really the questions because
Speaker 2: because he's in favor of allowing especially teenagers to use
Speaker 2: AI chatbots to kind of get through some of the
Speaker 2: early stuff, awkward stuff, to do it to, you know,
Speaker 2: in this privacy their own home, as opposed to hurting
Speaker 2: somebody else, whether it's emotionally.
Speaker 1: Or physicals, like training wheels on your I think it's
Speaker 1: awful communication, it's awful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is the way they're.
Speaker 1: Doing things anyway. They're not actually talking to each other.
Speaker 1: The first year of relationship is via text, and it's
Speaker 1: so if they could learn how to text better with
Speaker 1: their AI sex chatbot.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, you send nudes to your AI chat they have children.
Speaker 2: It tells you to face these questions, get a little closer.
Speaker 2: Don't take the don't take it in the bathroom.
Speaker 3: Don't take it in the that was going to end,
Speaker 3: but take it in.
Speaker 2: The bathroom, Like, don't take the picture in the bathroom.
Speaker 2: It's wrong with you.
Speaker 3: Hey, I don't want to see you on the weekends anymore.
Speaker 2: We post our weekend fix every Saturday. Make sure that
Speaker 2: you share the podcast wherever you are listening to it,
Speaker 2: whether it's or anywhere else. Leave us a rating. Make
Speaker 2: sure you leave us a review.
Speaker 3: A review. You're asking for ratings and reviews of terrifying.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not like you're going to read them. No,
Speaker 2: I will not rating, review, share it, subscribe to it.
Speaker 2: Do all the things that the kids tell you to do,
Speaker 2: and the stuff.
Speaker 3: Do weird stuff to it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 3: don't shut the door on love.
Speaker 2: We'll see you in the middle of the week. At
Speaker 2: some point. You've been listening to The Gary and Shannon Show.
Speaker 2: You can always hear us live on KFI AM six
Speaker 2: forty nine am to one pm every Monday through Friday,
Speaker 2: and anytime on demand and on the iHeartRadio app.