Speaker 1: What if I just leaned into it? What if I
Speaker 1: started like digging pit Bull? Would you still play pit Bull?
Speaker 1: If I actually because you only do this to ruin
Speaker 1: my Friday. If I leaned into it and pretended I
Speaker 1: enjoy it, could we stop it? No? No, if you
Speaker 1: lean in, we're gonna We're gonna lean in as well.
Speaker 2: We're married to it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what that means. Ultimately, when pit Bull
Speaker 1: is played on this radio show, it means it's time
Speaker 1: for the regular appearance of one Zach Harper on a
Speaker 1: Friday afternoon. Mister Harper, Happy Friday. Where do we find you,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles? How'd you get out of going to Oklahoma City?
Speaker 2: I'm doing these live streams for the NBA for the
Speaker 2: pregame show on their app, so you know, it's better
Speaker 2: if I'm in a stable internet connection.
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations to you, sir, Thank you. Is this the
Speaker 1: first time? Is this the first year you've done that?
Speaker 1: And I noticed I saw some of your social posts.
Speaker 1: Is this the first year you've done that?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I did it. I did it last year. It's just
Speaker 2: it was such a quick finals we didn't hard to notice.
Speaker 1: Tell everybody where they can go find it.
Speaker 2: Zach, you just go straight to the NBA app or
Speaker 2: I believe on any of their socials, Instagram, TikTok an
Speaker 2: that stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, well let's start with the finals and we'll
Speaker 1: move in some other directions, including a higher that was
Speaker 1: made out this way. But I'll tell you what man like,
Speaker 1: I feel like. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure who
Speaker 1: you picked. My guess is, like everybody else, you probably
Speaker 1: picked OKC. I picked OKC in five. They'd have to
Speaker 1: win four straight now, and maybe that's still on the table.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what else to say about this
Speaker 1: Pacers team. And I just hate the Pacers, but I'm
Speaker 1: just so impressed that they just don't quit until the
Speaker 1: zero's are on that clock. Your takeaway from Game.
Speaker 2: One, Yeah, I mean I had the Pacers to win
Speaker 2: last night, but I had Thunder and six. I mean,
Speaker 2: this team's just good. You know, they're really good, and
Speaker 2: they don't give up, like you said, and you know
Speaker 2: it's funny, like you know, this is what their fifth
Speaker 2: comeback in this postseason down fifteen or more.
Speaker 3: It's just absurd. And there's a.
Speaker 2: Point where I have to think that even a team
Speaker 2: like the Thunder, you know, there's a point where you're
Speaker 2: up double digits and it's getting late into the fourth quarter,
Speaker 2: and then once they get into that single digit territory,
Speaker 2: You've got to know what's possible here, right, not just
Speaker 2: because it's an NBA game, because it's this Pacers team.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just Tyber's Saliverton going nuts. It was
Speaker 2: it was Obi Top and hit some threes, and Miles
Speaker 2: Turner hit some threes, and Nemhart hit a shot and
Speaker 2: Paskel Siaston got to rebound.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 2: It's just it's everybody, you know, no one had a
Speaker 2: good game. Everyone just had solid games last night. And
Speaker 2: for you to force them into twenty five turnovers and
Speaker 2: only get eleven points off those turnovers is ridiculous. I mean,
Speaker 2: that is just incredible, you know, incredible basketball by the Pacers.
Speaker 2: It's rare. It's almost incomprehensible to say a team played
Speaker 2: great basketball after turning the ball over twenty five. But
Speaker 2: they reacted well to those moments. Because we've seen so
Speaker 2: many teams, i mean, throughout this playoffs, the Memphis Grizzlies,
Speaker 2: the Denver Nuggets, the Minnesota Timberwolves, they get those turnovers
Speaker 2: and they just let it defeat them and the Pacers
Speaker 2: they're just not built that way.
Speaker 1: Was there any point last night that you thought Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City had a wrapped up. I've been talking to our
Speaker 1: guest today, so watching the game last night with a
Speaker 1: few buddies, and when SGA hit that layup that I
Speaker 1: think put them up seven with like ninety seconds left
Speaker 1: or whatever, one of my buddies like, yeah, Okay, that
Speaker 1: should probably do it. I'm like, okay, you haven't watched
Speaker 1: at all, and I get it. I mean, you and
Speaker 1: I are basketball sikos, but it's you know, the Knick
Speaker 1: series was interesting because there's an emotional thing and I
Speaker 1: just know as a Nick fan, if it can go round,
Speaker 1: it probably will. But at no point did I think
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City had that wrapped up, even when they're up
Speaker 1: fifteen in the fourth, when they're up seven with ninety eight,
Speaker 1: At any point did you think, okay, o case, he's
Speaker 1: got this.
Speaker 2: And when SGA went up for that jumper on that
Speaker 2: final possession that would have put it up three. As
Speaker 2: he goes up for that jumper, I thought he was
Speaker 2: gonna hit it. And if he hits that, I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: they're probably good. Even though it only pushes it to three,
Speaker 2: and obviously you can easily tie the game on the
Speaker 2: next possession, but we know that the thunder are then
Speaker 2: going to foul and we're gonna get into that whole
Speaker 2: nonsense of intentional fouls there, right, So as he goes
Speaker 2: up for I'm thinking, all right, he's got this, They've
Speaker 2: got this once that goes in. Once that missed, and
Speaker 2: they got the ball to Halliburn and I saw they
Speaker 2: weren't calling time out. That's when I thought, oh no,
Speaker 2: this is gonna happen again. And then they didn't throw
Speaker 2: a double at Halle, they didn't rush him at all.
Speaker 2: They let him just walk into a pull up jumper.
Speaker 2: And as soon as he let that thing go, you
Speaker 2: just knew. You just knew, because he's done it for
Speaker 2: you know, four times now.
Speaker 3: In this postseason.
Speaker 2: I mean, that guy is just as clenched as it gets.
Speaker 3: He is.
Speaker 1: And you know, while I do not do first take radio,
Speaker 1: I do want to ask your opinion, just don't kind
Speaker 1: of where he exists, like the whole moniker of like
Speaker 1: is he a superstar is he not? I suppose that's
Speaker 1: either the Beholder stuff and other people can debate it
Speaker 1: back and forth, and I certainly wouldn't put him up
Speaker 1: there with Jokic or Luca or whoever. But you know,
Speaker 1: as he continues to silence people, and look, if we're honest,
Speaker 1: for about thirty minutes, our guy was a wallflower last night,
Speaker 1: and I'm watching the game, I'm like, where is he?
Speaker 2: Where are you?
Speaker 1: Like put your stamp on this game? But ultimately winning
Speaker 1: games the way he has and he is a lead guard,
Speaker 1: so if he's not scoring, he is doing other things.
Speaker 1: And he rebounded well last night and he only had
Speaker 1: three turnovers in thirty nine minutes. Is the main ball
Speaker 1: handler against one of the best defenses we've seen in
Speaker 1: a generation. And I'm not saying like is he top five,
Speaker 1: six or seven, whatever, but like generally speaking, where is
Speaker 1: his cul de sac in pro basketball right now? Where
Speaker 1: does he live?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a superstar. I mean this dude's been doing it.
Speaker 2: For two years now. And Okay, he's not Stephanie, he's
Speaker 2: not SCA. Okay, but we've seeing him prove himself time
Speaker 2: and time again.
Speaker 3: He's a big shot.
Speaker 2: Maker like I and he's a guy that's leading a
Speaker 2: really good team, just led them to the finals.
Speaker 3: And look we can't do the thing this year of
Speaker 3: what we did last year with them.
Speaker 2: Last year's like, oh yeah, they got to the Conference
Speaker 2: finals because of injuries. Yeah, probably right, Like I don't
Speaker 2: think there's anything wrong with that. I you know, New
Speaker 2: York got really injured in that series, and I think
Speaker 2: if New York stays relatively healthy, they end up winning
Speaker 2: that game seven. This year, you can't say that. I'm
Speaker 2: not having that with the Bucks. They were beating the
Speaker 2: Bucks in that series.
Speaker 3: No matter what.
Speaker 2: I'm not having that with the Calves. They're beating the
Speaker 2: Calves no matter what. Like that Cavs team is weak.
Speaker 2: And then and then you know, that Knick series was
Speaker 2: really good. I think it could have gone either way
Speaker 2: in a lot of those games and they ended up
Speaker 2: pulling it out because he was great. And this is
Speaker 2: a guy that is an elite leader on the court.
Speaker 2: He's an elite clutch player. He's one of the best
Speaker 2: point guards in the world, and you trust him with
Speaker 2: the ball, and I'm with you, Like there's points where
Speaker 2: you're like, man, is he gonna put his his stamp
Speaker 2: on this game? You know, as that game's going on,
Speaker 2: And I'm not putting him in this category but he's
Speaker 2: you know, we see that with Steph Curry at times too, right,
Speaker 2: Like Steph will kind of just kind of by his
Speaker 2: time by this time, by this time, I think Tyree's
Speaker 2: kind of lets the game come to him until a
Speaker 2: certain point. And a big part of that is while
Speaker 2: Steph is creating gravity, you know, through his movement and everything,
Speaker 2: Tyree's is just he's slinging that thing around the court.
Speaker 2: And he played good defense and as you mentioned, he
Speaker 2: rebounded really well. You know, he's someone that is still
Speaker 2: contributing to winning basketball and I think he is a
Speaker 2: big part of the reason why they don't give up.
Speaker 2: Even if he's not the one hitting the shots, he's
Speaker 2: leading that whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the stat you referenced is the stat that
Speaker 1: stands out led the show with it, Like Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: is a lade at forcing turnovers and scoring off of turnovers.
Speaker 1: But if you're turning twenty four turnovers into eleven points,
Speaker 1: like there's a world Zach at halftime, Indiana should have
Speaker 1: been down twenty five, you know. Yeah, And we heard
Speaker 1: Rick Carlisle in the locker room like it's not good news.
Speaker 1: We're turning over like this, But it's a miracle. We're
Speaker 1: still We're still in the game. And for about man,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe forty minutes of the forty eight
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City seemed to be in this like we're up
Speaker 1: between seven and thirteen, and we can't extend it beyond that.
Speaker 1: But every time they kind of creep closer, you know,
Speaker 1: we're able to find an answer. But because of their
Speaker 1: inability to turn those turnovers into points, I'm watching the
Speaker 1: score and I'm thinking, like, this is so far from over.
Speaker 1: So if you're Indiana, you could feel really good about
Speaker 1: the fact that you're up one zero and you turned
Speaker 1: it over that much. But do you believe that Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City will continue to have a problem converting turnovers into
Speaker 1: points because they've been so elite at it all year long?
Speaker 2: No, But you also can't think that you're going to
Speaker 2: turn over twenty five times? Sure, right, Like this is
Speaker 2: the tenth game counting the playoffs this year where they've
Speaker 2: turned it over twenty or more times.
Speaker 3: And this, I mean, this is one of the best.
Speaker 2: Teams in the league at not turning the ball over.
Speaker 2: And even Halibert, you know you mentioned the three turnovers.
Speaker 2: That's a lot for him. He doesn't turned the ball
Speaker 2: over three times in a game, and all those came
Speaker 2: in the first half. So he corrected that at halftime,
Speaker 2: like he didn't have one in the second half, I believe.
Speaker 2: And so you know, like Obi Toping looked like he
Speaker 2: was he was so scared in the first half, and
Speaker 2: then he settles down hits a bunch of threes in
Speaker 2: the second half, Like you know, Neee Smith looks scared
Speaker 2: in the first half, Miles Turner looks scared in the
Speaker 2: first like they look like, oh you know, it hit
Speaker 2: them like, oh man, we're in the finals, and then
Speaker 2: they settled down. I think that's coaching. I think that's leadership,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the team that is confident that, hey,
Speaker 2: we can keep coming back.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's good to get down double digits
Speaker 2: every time. I know they're five and three with this
Speaker 2: year or this postseason, when they get down fifteen points
Speaker 2: or more in a game, which is a ridiculous stat
Speaker 2: and so you don't want to keep doing that, especially
Speaker 2: not against a team like the Thunder. But the fact
Speaker 2: that they are so comfortable down and I got to
Speaker 2: think like even a team like the Thunder, they could
Speaker 2: be up double digits in fourth quarter in Game two
Speaker 2: at home, and if that thing gets the single digits,
Speaker 2: I don't care how good and confident that team is.
Speaker 2: That thing starts getting the single digits and they miss
Speaker 2: a shot here and there. You know that they're thinking,
Speaker 2: oh no, here it goes again. Because we just saw
Speaker 2: that with Cleveland, We saw it with New York. You know,
Speaker 2: we saw it with Okay see last night, you have
Speaker 2: to start thinking that.
Speaker 1: So the final possession, I thought this was interesting. And honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean, Rick Carlisle's put on a masterclass all all postseason.
Speaker 1: So they get the rebound you reference. So when Shaye
Speaker 1: went up for that shot, first of all, that's the
Speaker 1: shot he wants, right, he gets the shot he wants,
Speaker 1: gets a little space, and like you, he elevates him
Speaker 1: like that's cash, misses it. They get the board ten
Speaker 1: seconds left, so they get it Halliburton, and look, Cason
Speaker 1: Wallace is a dog and he's a good on ball defender,
Speaker 1: but you want dort On Halliburton in that moment, you
Speaker 1: just do. And so I wonder because my thought in
Speaker 1: the moment was Rick saw that Cason picks up Halliburton
Speaker 1: and likes that matchup because Cason sixty three and Halliburton
Speaker 1: sixty five, and it's not Dort, it's not Jalen, it
Speaker 1: is Case and so let's let him do his thing.
Speaker 1: Is that how you read that final possession as well?
Speaker 2: I think it was simply, we can't let this team
Speaker 2: get its defense. Yep, you know, I think it could
Speaker 2: have been anybody on Halliburton, but you're getting single coverage there.
Speaker 2: They had a time out to burn if things got
Speaker 2: in trouble, and I think I think Rick Carlile is
Speaker 2: just one of those guys he trusted, He especially trusts
Speaker 2: Halliburton to to do what he needs to do and
Speaker 2: get a good shot. And look, you're right like Case
Speaker 2: wals Is. I mean, I think if he got more
Speaker 2: menaces here, he's probably all MBA or all defense. Right,
Speaker 2: he's probably all defense, second team, Like he is that
Speaker 2: good defensively. The problem is Halliburton going to his.
Speaker 3: Right, like that's where his sweet spot is. Right.
Speaker 2: He's not one of those guys that takes that jumper
Speaker 2: going to his left. I think Kaylan Cooper does an
Speaker 2: amazing job covering the Pacers. I think she wrote it
Speaker 2: something like like a five to one ratio in terms
Speaker 2: of him going to his right and taking jump shots
Speaker 2: some ridiculous stat like that that's where he wants to go.
Speaker 2: He didn't really have to do a step back or
Speaker 2: anything like. He just kind of he just kind of
Speaker 2: dribbles into that thing. The question I have for Mark Dagnal,
Speaker 2: like where is the double? Where is the swarm? Like
Speaker 2: you can't help from the from the corner there as
Speaker 2: he's going towards the right I would send anybody else
Speaker 2: at him. You can, like anyone else on that team,
Speaker 2: you get to have the game winning shot. I am
Speaker 2: not giving that to Halliburton. Anyone Nee Smith, Turner, Siakam,
Speaker 2: anyone else gets to have that shot. Halliburton doesn't get
Speaker 2: to get a shot off there. And I think I
Speaker 2: think we saw both with the change in the starting
Speaker 2: lineup for literally no reason. I mean, I thought that
Speaker 2: was a huge mistake to start off by Mark Dagnall,
Speaker 2: and then some of that coaching down the stretch, especially
Speaker 2: that final defensive possession. I think you just saw a
Speaker 2: little bit of that inexperience there.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the lineup change. That's where
Speaker 1: I want to go next. So it was not a
Speaker 1: good Chet game, and Dagnol decided to stagger Chat and Hardenstein.
Speaker 1: Hardenstatt excuse me, and I thought harden Hartenstein, sorry, Hardenstat
Speaker 1: was actually better in his seventeen minutes than Chet was
Speaker 1: in his twenty four. I don't know if it's Chet's
Speaker 1: inability to handle physicality that's always been his thing. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's too big for the moment, at
Speaker 1: least for game one case and starts Isaiah comes off
Speaker 1: the bench. Do you think we'll see that in game two?
Speaker 1: Or does he go back to the two bigs together.
Speaker 2: I don't know why he went away from him in
Speaker 2: the first place. I mean, Hartenstein can't handle Miles Turner.
Speaker 2: No offense to Miles Turner, But like, what's the issue there?
Speaker 3: I don't get it.
Speaker 2: And you got out rebounded by seventeen I think that's
Speaker 2: what it was. Seventeen Hartstein wrapped nine rebounds in seventeen minutes.
Speaker 2: Like they completely abandon what was good for them.
Speaker 3: I get it. You're like, oh, that team's fast.
Speaker 2: You know, we want to make sure we have some
Speaker 2: speed and some more defense on the floor. You're the
Speaker 2: best defense in the league when Hardenstein's out there too.
Speaker 2: I just I don't get it like you shouldn't. You're
Speaker 2: the favorite, You're the most dominant team regular season NBA history,
Speaker 2: sixty eight wins. No one can touch you in any
Speaker 2: of these things. You've got, you know, four different thirty
Speaker 2: point wins in these in this postseason. Why are you
Speaker 2: adjusting to the Indiana Pacers before the series even starts.
Speaker 3: I just I didn't understand.
Speaker 2: That at all. I think you go out there and
Speaker 2: by putting Chet at the four and using your regular
Speaker 2: starting lineup, Yeah, Chet's probably gonna struggle a little bit
Speaker 2: guarding Siaka, but you've got help, and you've got big help,
Speaker 2: and they've got a great, you know, big to big
Speaker 2: thing going on offense too, where you know that's that's
Speaker 2: gonna be really tough.
Speaker 3: For Indiana to guard.
Speaker 2: I just I thought that was a massive mistake on
Speaker 2: so many levels, on both ends of the floor. And
Speaker 2: then even in there in the rotations, I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: how how staggered those rotations were with those two because
Speaker 2: I think, you know, against Indiana, you kind of got
Speaker 2: to be bullied there. I mean, we saw we saw
Speaker 2: with New York when it was when it was Cad
Speaker 2: Mitchell Robinson, Like, yes, they lost that series, but when
Speaker 2: those two were on the floor together it kind of
Speaker 2: worked at times. And with Chet and Hardenstein, I think
Speaker 2: you have to believe that that's going to work against Indiana.
Speaker 1: So we've already talked about why if you're Indiana, you
Speaker 1: of course feel good. A.
Speaker 2: You have the lead. B.
Speaker 1: You don't believe you're gonna turn it over twenty four
Speaker 1: times in a game, or certainly nineteen times and a
Speaker 1: half or whatever. But Indiana shot eighteen of thirty nine
Speaker 1: from three forty six percent. Okay, see eleven of thirty
Speaker 1: from three. That's not who they are anyway. Of the
Speaker 1: sixteen teams in the playoffs, Indiana or excuse me, okay,
Speaker 1: see is thirteenth and three point percentage. But if so,
Speaker 1: we've talked about why Indiana feels good today, because of
Speaker 1: course they should tell me, if anything, why you think
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City should still feel good about their chance to
Speaker 1: the chances to win the series based off of what
Speaker 1: happened last night.
Speaker 2: I mean you you they took Mike Worganoff had had
Speaker 2: a stat something like they took fifteen more shots within
Speaker 2: four feet of the rim, you know, like it.
Speaker 3: Like, so you've got a.
Speaker 2: Lot of shots inside, you shot more free throws, you
Speaker 2: committed fewer fouls. You know, you did force a ton
Speaker 2: of turnovers, and a lot of those were live ball turnovers.
Speaker 2: I think you have to think that you're gonna even
Speaker 2: if you force ten fewer turnovers next game. I think
Speaker 2: you have to believe you're going to create more points
Speaker 2: off those turnovers, because I think the stat I saw
Speaker 2: going into last night's game is they were scoring like
Speaker 2: one point three six points per possession on steals during
Speaker 2: the postseason, which is a ridiculous number. I mean it's
Speaker 2: like it's like scoring one hundred and thirty six points
Speaker 2: per one hundred possessions, which would which would be an
Speaker 2: insane level of offensive efficiency. So, like you have to
Speaker 2: think that as you're creating live ball turnovers, you are
Speaker 2: going to convert those. Shay had a good game, Chet
Speaker 2: was miserable. Jalen Williams shot the ball really poorly. No
Speaker 2: one else really stepped up outside of lou Dort, you know,
Speaker 2: hitting those threes. So I think you have to think believe, like,
Speaker 2: you didn't play that good of a game and you
Speaker 2: still should have won. And you missed on essentially a
Speaker 2: last second shot. You missed that opportunity. So they can
Speaker 2: play a lot better and they and they typically do
Speaker 2: play a lot better. And we've seen how they bounce back.
Speaker 2: I mean, they lost Game one to Denver at home
Speaker 2: and then came back and won by like forty three points,
Speaker 2: so we know that they'll respond.
Speaker 3: You just have to.
Speaker 2: I just do not think that they can keep up
Speaker 2: with this altered lineup. I think they have to go
Speaker 2: back to what works for them.
Speaker 1: As your opinion, I know you said you chose Indiana
Speaker 1: to win Game one in Oklahoma City to win the series.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be five games, but
Speaker 1: I still kind of lean towards OKC. As your opinion
Speaker 1: on how this thing is going to play out changed
Speaker 1: after Game one.
Speaker 2: I'm still sticking with Thunder in six, but I feel,
Speaker 2: you know, less confident in it for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean Indiana.
Speaker 2: It's not so much of what Indiana showed because I
Speaker 2: think they did what they do right. They shot well,
Speaker 2: and they've shot well all postseason. You know, they're almost
Speaker 2: like fifty forty eighty as a team for the for
Speaker 2: the postseason during this run, So you know, they did
Speaker 2: what they're supposed to do on offense outside of the turnovers,
Speaker 2: which they really rarely do. I'm I'm more uneasy with
Speaker 2: the changes that Okay, see man, and not to keep like,
Speaker 2: you know, hammering that point home. But I need to
Speaker 2: see how they adjust in game two and if they
Speaker 2: go back to their regular style, because I just I
Speaker 2: really don't like when the team changes up that kind
Speaker 2: of strategy. It reminds me a little bit. This is
Speaker 2: gonna be, you know, kind of extreme. But remember when
Speaker 2: when the Mavericks, you know, back in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: just all of a sudden started changing everything they did
Speaker 2: against that Warriors team that we believe Warriors team. You know,
Speaker 2: they got what they got away from their identity pretty
Speaker 2: quickly in that series. And Don Nelson knew at that point.
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, we you know, we got this.
Speaker 2: And so I think that I think that that that's
Speaker 2: a little bit of a reminder here of if the
Speaker 2: Thunder keep adjusting to what Indiana is doing rather than
Speaker 2: adjusting what they do, which I think there's a big difference.
Speaker 3: I do think the Thunder might be in trouble.
Speaker 1: All right, we switch gears. Game two Sunday night, six
Speaker 1: o'clock Mountain time. You can hear it right here out
Speaker 1: of ESPN seven hundred. Since you and I, since you
Speaker 1: and I last spoke, Tom Thibodeau has lost his job
Speaker 1: and now the New York Knicks are looking for a
Speaker 1: new coach. Let me ask you this. You're well plugged in.
Speaker 1: Why do you think this decision was made? Who do
Speaker 1: you think was behind it?
Speaker 3: I do think it was.
Speaker 2: Enough of the front office, you know, you know, at
Speaker 2: first I thought it was dul and then as I've
Speaker 2: talked to some people, I do think some of the
Speaker 2: front office was was leaning this way.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I kind of heard throughout the year, especially leading up
Speaker 2: to the playoffs, of hey, if he didn't get to
Speaker 2: a conference finals, like he's out right, like he's just
Speaker 2: out if they don't get to.
Speaker 3: A conference finals.
Speaker 2: And then once the lay of the land changed with
Speaker 2: like oh Cleveland, Cleveland got knocked out, and then you
Speaker 2: obviously they beat Boston, I think it became a thing
Speaker 2: of like, I can't believe we lost to the Pacers,
Speaker 2: and it's underestimating that Pacers team. And I think that's
Speaker 2: I think it kind of set back that that kind
Speaker 2: of feeling of, hey, we got to get to the
Speaker 2: conference or better in order for him to keep his job.
Speaker 2: I don't really know what this thing is. I don't
Speaker 2: think that he had I know everyone's like, you gotta
Speaker 2: play your bench, you gotta play your bench. What bench,
Speaker 2: the one with Cameron Paynton, Landry Shammon on it? Like
Speaker 2: I know that Landry Shammon had an okay series against Indiana.
Speaker 3: He's not good, right like they like, you're you're.
Speaker 2: Relying on Delon Wright to kind of turn back the
Speaker 2: clock a little bit. And he did and he played well,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't have much of a bench to utilize there.
Speaker 2: And it's not to make excuses. I still think he
Speaker 2: needs to coach better, and I think he needs to,
Speaker 2: you know, rely on the depth, you know, of what
Speaker 2: he's given a lot more because we're just talking about
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes here and there. But this seemed
Speaker 2: to be decided no matter what short of a finals run.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine to do if you have that
Speaker 2: person that you know you're going to replace them with.
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like they have that. And if the
Speaker 2: answer is Mike Malone, no offense of Mike Malone, I'm
Speaker 2: not certain he's a better coach than Tom Thibodeau. Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's got a ring show me where he's gonna run
Speaker 2: the throat to Yokic offense with the Knicks, Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know what kind of coach he is without Joks.
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to diminish what.
Speaker 3: He can do.
Speaker 2: He's obviously a very smart coach, but we don't know
Speaker 2: what that looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, ultimately, if the whole thing with Tom
Speaker 1: is that he's not a great relationship guy, I've got
Speaker 1: bad news about Michael Malone as well, you know.
Speaker 2: Like he just got fired for the exact same stuff.
Speaker 1: Right right, And I just have to wonder. And look,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sound like the old guy yelling at a cloud,
Speaker 1: but you know, a lot of the coaches with kind
Speaker 1: of an old school approach have lost their jobs, even
Speaker 1: if they are good at their jobs. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to say, like, hey, the new cuddled NBA player athlete,
Speaker 1: but is that is that approach antiquated? Is it no
Speaker 1: longer possible in a league that is clearly run by
Speaker 1: the players.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean probably, And you know, I, like you
Speaker 3: want to win.
Speaker 2: Right, Do you want to win or you want to
Speaker 2: just be coddled and make funny like does does Indiana
Speaker 2: seem like they're they're upset when Rick Carlisle's yelling at him.
Speaker 3: He's not a guy that that coddles.
Speaker 2: Rick Carlo's hard on his players. He's about accountability. And
Speaker 2: so I just I don't think there's a problem with it.
Speaker 3: I just I don't.
Speaker 2: And and if that's if that's the issue within your organization,
Speaker 2: then I don't think you have the right players.
Speaker 1: And I don't think they have the right players You're
Speaker 1: point about. The bench is something I've been harping on.
Speaker 1: We had Howard beck on last last Hour and he
Speaker 1: said he's been told that the front office was mad
Speaker 1: that Tom didn't go deep in his bench. I'm like,
Speaker 1: to who, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm with you there. I think their issue was a
Speaker 1: roster yeah exactly, like you know, their issue was a
Speaker 1: roster construction issue with their top heavy with a good
Speaker 1: starting five. But if they're gonna do anything else, I
Speaker 1: think they've got a cat problem. Do you think they
Speaker 1: get involved in the durant stuff, the honest stuff? Do
Speaker 1: you think they try to tinker, make it deeper, or
Speaker 1: change things up top as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, they don't have anything to go get Yanness, right,
Speaker 2: they barely have anything to go get Durant, Like that
Speaker 2: would be a pretty big concession.
Speaker 3: By even the Sun's organizations.
Speaker 2: Like I can't imagine that that's that's doing a whole
Speaker 2: lot for them. So like you depleted your draft pick
Speaker 2: stockpile by by going and getting bridges.
Speaker 3: So I don't I don't know what you can flip.
Speaker 2: And let's say, let's say Phoenix said, hey, you know what,
Speaker 2: we'll do CAT for KD. Straight up? What does that do?
Speaker 2: No offense to KD. He's great, He's better than CAT.
Speaker 2: I don't understand how that fixes their issues. This is
Speaker 2: a team that can't can't defend the paint. This is
Speaker 2: a team that can't defend on the perimeter.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: That's not going to fix it at all. KD is
Speaker 2: is a great weapon and he can do a whole lot,
Speaker 2: but that's not going to solve their cat problem at all.
Speaker 2: That is just going to create different problems as it solves,
Speaker 2: like a little bit of some offensive stuff. But even then, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: Katie's gonna sit and watch while Jaylen Brunson does the
Speaker 2: clutch stuff, which is fine. Jaylen Brunst is really good
Speaker 2: at it. But I'm failing to see how that is.
Speaker 2: That is something that solves anything. If they could go
Speaker 2: get y honest, sure that's an improvement that starts to
Speaker 2: fill in some of those gaps, but they can't go
Speaker 2: get him all.
Speaker 1: Right, before I set you loose, there was a piece
Speaker 1: of news out this way as Austin ahe has been
Speaker 1: hired as the president of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz.
Speaker 1: Ryan Smith himself at the press conference said, this is
Speaker 1: now Austin's show. He is the loudest voice in the
Speaker 1: front office. Austin's dad, Danny, will report to him, and
Speaker 1: Justin's Anik will also report to him. Of course, the
Speaker 1: sound by Zach that has been making the rounds is
Speaker 1: Austin saying. His philosophy on tanking is that we will
Speaker 1: not do that here. You will not see it this year.
Speaker 1: All find him good. But when you have a top
Speaker 1: eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City, if you
Speaker 1: are below eight, then you've got some interesting roster decisions
Speaker 1: to make. What do you think, So if we if
Speaker 1: we take Austin out his word. They're no longer tanking
Speaker 1: or manipulating minutes. I think it's paramount for them to
Speaker 1: hold on to that draft asset next year in that
Speaker 1: draft class. But if he is now the guy calling
Speaker 1: the shots and that is his ethos, what do you
Speaker 1: think this looks like for the Jazz this year.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing about that is I covered some
Speaker 2: Timberwolves and some Kings teams for a while that also
Speaker 2: weren't tanking, but they were so bad it didn't matter.
Speaker 2: So this, I mean, this roster is like, all right,
Speaker 2: play lowry, play, play the veterans and stuff. That team's
Speaker 2: not winning, that team's not good. They might win thirty
Speaker 2: games that can still keep them their top their top
Speaker 2: eight protected pick, but they technically wouldn't be tanking. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is a team that needs to continue to bottom
Speaker 2: out to go find one of those guys. I just
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think, I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like the approach just doesn't make sense to me when
Speaker 2: there are those potential stars. And I think this is
Speaker 2: just a product of we thought we were going to
Speaker 2: put ourselves in the position to get one these guys.
Speaker 2: We ended up with the fifth pick or what yeah,
Speaker 2: fifth tick or whatever they end up with, and and
Speaker 2: now like, oh man, we can't do that again and
Speaker 2: sell it for with good pr Sometimes you got to
Speaker 2: just be uncomfortable, right, Like, they just need to be
Speaker 2: uncomfortable for another year and see if it works again,
Speaker 2: and then if it doesn't, okay, then you adjust and
Speaker 2: you start making some deals with some of the draft
Speaker 2: picks and some of the players that you have, and
Speaker 2: you and you lean on development.
Speaker 3: But you know, the.
Speaker 2: Whole press conference thing is meaningless. You can say all
Speaker 2: that stuff, and you can you can do all this stuff,
Speaker 2: but the roster is the roster. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 2: you want to take or not. If this is basically
Speaker 2: what it's going to be going into next season, you know,
Speaker 2: save any any kind of you know, massive changes to
Speaker 2: that roster like yeah, okay, you're not tanking, you're not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said, as long as they hold on to
Speaker 1: that asset, that's to me, that's number one, prior to
Speaker 1: all year long. Man, All right, Zach, appreciate the time, buddy.
Speaker 1: I have a good weekend. Enjoyed the finals with chat
Speaker 1: soon you, sir. Zach Harper covers the end the Athletic.
Speaker 1: He's doing a live stream for NBA for pre affen
Speaker 1: posts during the NBA Finals. Get the link to all
Speaker 1: of his work on his Twitter page, which is at
Speaker 1: tak hoops