Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It
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And again, thank you so much for your support. I
want to welcome to the program Andrew Dunn. And he
is an op ed contributor over at the Charlotte Observer.
He's also the publisher of long Leaf Politics. He joins
us every Tuesday at noon. Andrew, you doing all right, sir?
Speaker 3: I am good to be with you. And hey, if
you're looking for investors on in Greenland, I'm in okay.
Speaker 2: Hey, Well, I suspect your contribution might be equivalent to mine,
which is like twenty dollars.
Speaker 1: How much can I buy Greenland for you? Yeah? What
does twenty dollars get me?
Speaker 2: All right? And so let's talk about an effort that's
up in Raleigh. But it's also I've heard this idea
kicked around at the national level as well. And you
wrote about this for your piece at the Charlotte Observer
about well, what the left is calling a power grab,
but it doesn't need to be a partisan thing like
this Rains Act.
Speaker 1: R ei NS.
Speaker 2: The Rains Act, you say, it's actually it's not really
a power grab. It's Republicans doing the right thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. So the Rains Act is the
brainchild of Representative Alan Chester out in Nash County, and
he's a real smart guy. Had the chance to talk
to him not too long ago. But basically, it wants
to right size the relationship between the executive branch and
the legislative branch on important things that are coming out.
So all of the executive branch positions, that's the governor,
but it's also Secretary of State, the treasurer, etc. That
are all the way on down the list, they all
have the ability to implement regulations that execute the laws
that the General Assembly passes. And so what the Rains
Act does is basically says, hey, if you're gonna if
you want to implement a regulation that's going to have
an impact of more than a million dollars, the General
Assembly wants to take a look at it first and
sign off on that. Basically, what it's trying to do
is prevent the executive branch from essentially passing laws under
the guise of legislation. And we're really not talking about
a whole lot of regulations that would fit that criteria,
So it's really only the big ticket ones we're talking
you know, I've seen some estimates as high as sixty
a year, but the updated numbers I'm getting is it's
probably only going to be like ten to fifteen per year.
So we're not talking about a huge a huge change
in process, but for stuff that's going to really make
an impact on people and businesses in North Carolina. The
General Assembly just wants to add some accountability.
Speaker 1: To that is.
Speaker 2: So it doesn't sound like this is as big of
a problem at the state level as it is at
the national level, where you've got these you know, unelected
bureaucrats that are empowered probably through poorly constructed law or
by abuse, that they start making rules that are beyond
the scope of what Congress actually wanted.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, not as big a problem at the
state level, but still you know, worth keeping an eye on.
I'm definitely more excited about the prospect of something like
this passing at the federal level. And some of it
is because the executive branch agencies at the federal level
have gotten you know, two bowl in what they're trying
to do. But some of it is the fault of
Congress and previous Congresses actually delegating their authority to the
executive branch. I mean, there was there was an era
when so many laws were put together. We're basically said,
all right, executive branch, you figure this out, when really
it should have been the Congress sitting those guidelines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of incentive for members of
Congress to offload essentially the legislative responsibilities to you know,
faceless bureaucrats. It this way, they don't they're not harmed,
and they get to rail against, you know, electorally, they're
not harmed, and then they get to rail against the
excesses that those bureaucrats undertake. And so I suspect that
that would be a harder lift up there than it
might be here. What's your sense on its prospects in
Raleigh winning approval.
Speaker 3: I think they're very good. I think that this bill
will pass and probably the I mean I could see
Governor Stein signing it or letting it go into law
without his signature. I don't think this will end up
being as controversial as.
Speaker 4: He might think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you say it's that this is a good
course of action, that this is trying to You said
this is a necessary course correction.
Speaker 4: Why Yeah, So.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of it has to do, you know,
with the interplay the federal and the state government. You know,
like we just talked about, it's not as big a
deal at the state level as it is at the federal. However,
I mean, there still are ten to fifteen regulations each
year that are going to have a million dollars or
more of an impact on businesses or families in North Carolina.
So it's worth having that accountability there. I mean, I
can't say that I'm super familiar with all the regulations
that come out. It's not a very transparent process. So
this is going to put it in front of a
general Assembly where there's going to be some open debate.
There's going to be accountability. You can call your lawmaker
to talk about how you would be impacted by this regulation.
I doubt very many people are calling any regulators in
the executive branch to talk about regulations if they even
know they're coming down the line.
Speaker 2: So you don't consider this to be a power grab
by the Republican legislature, not at all.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is what the proper the
pupper role that the legislature should take in this process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me shift gears, because now is the time
I actually saw somebody wondering whether Roy Cooper was actually
getting into the US Senate race because it's only like
three hundred something days away. So you have some advice
over on your website, long Leaf Politics long leafpol dot
com for people that are thinking about running for office.
And you, I guess you and I don't know who
is Ian Richardson that you've built this campaign.
Speaker 1: Starter kit with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a real smart guys, lives in the area.
We work together on the Dan Forest campaign. He was
the deputy campaign manager, so he's got a lot of
experience on the ground running campaigns. And he and I
we both have heard from a lot of folks over
the years. You know, people will call up and say, Hey,
I'm thinking I'm running for this seed or that seed.
What do you think? Not really knowing whether they have
a good shot at it, and then you know how
to actually get started and people can figure it out.
And that's mostly what people do now, but it takes
a lot of time, and people make a lot of mistakes,
waste a lot of time, and waste a lot of money.
So we saw an opportunity to put together a low
cost product that helps people answer the question, hey, is
this a good idea, but then also have the option
to get off the ground quickly and cheaply, without without
making all the mistakes that we've seen.
Speaker 2: Are you is this kit primarily for you know, like
local races, municipal, county or you or like is it
for any level all the way up to national?
Speaker 3: It's primarily for the down ballot races. You know, at
the top of the ticket type races you know they're
going to hire a general concert because they know they're
going to have the fundraising bear to actually afford that.
What we're primarily focused on is lower levels, you know,
general assembly, county commissioner, city council, stuff like that. You know,
low dollar races where they're not you know, people aren't
going to be able to afford you know, a high
price consultant, but still just want a little.
Speaker 5: Bit of help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you say that this is a way to
help avoid traps that sink new campaigns. Do you like,
can you think of an example, like of a mistake
that most of these local candidates make when they first
start their campaigns.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean there's a lot talk all day about it,
but I mean the first one is on the front end,
picking where you know what seat to run for. You know,
some people really feel passionate about one particular seat, but
they don't realize that so much of politics as a
timing game. You don't really want to run again in
a popular incumbent at the you know, the peak of
their power, so you know, maybe this is the right
time to sit out a cycle or two and do
some other things, and we can help guide people in
that way. But then the other one is setting up
an initial campaign budget, understanding how much money that you're
gonna need to raise to be successful in this race,
and what types of things to spend money on. You know,
you'll see people will you know, maybe they'll spend money
setting up a texting platform, when really they you know,
that's a waste of money that they'll get better leverage
out of doing something else.
Speaker 1: What's your opinion on yard signs.
Speaker 3: You know it may be unpopular, but I still think
that yard signs done right can have a big impact. Actually.
I think of you know, Tark Pakari when he was
first running for city council. His yard signs were were
well done and got his name out there, and that's
how I first came across the name there. You know,
if you're just putting your yard sign where everybody else
has theirs, then it's like one out of a million.
Then it might not be worthwhile. But if you do
it right, it can work.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Tim Moore, now, Congressman Tim Moore when he was speaker,
I asked him once about that some event, and he said, well,
if I see the yard signs in private homes yards
versus public rideaways, like, that's a better indication of public
sentiment when you see lots of people putting the yard
signs on their own property versus just sticking them at
an intersection, because that's some campaign worker.
Speaker 3: That did that exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Andrew Dunn, publisher of long Leaf Politics, that's long leafpol
dot com, also a contributing columnist over at the Charlotte Observer.
Speaker 1: Thanks for your time, Andrew, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Man, thank you.
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Let's head over here and speak with Mark. Hello, Mark,
how are you?
Speaker 1: Mark? Hey? Hey, Hey, I'm good. What's up?
Speaker 5: Real quick?
Speaker 4: These?
Speaker 5: Uh, these are times you were talking about. I've always
just looked at him as as just a total waste
because most of them, I don't know what percentage, but
most of them say, you know, Joe Blow for US
Senate on a red, white and blue background. That tells
me absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2: And if you see it everywhere, you if you see
it everywhere, though, wouldn't that indicate a level of support
for Joe Blow.
Speaker 5: No, I would say, you know, you've got more rabid uh,
you know, devoted followers. I don't think. I don't think
there's any correlation. I think it would be our less
than point series five.
Speaker 2: Well, but that's the whole But that's the whole point
of the signs on private property. We're talking because, as
I went over with Andrew Dunn, was the this was
the the strategy or the thinking behind the yard signs
and how they can be helpful in measuring public sentiment.
From the former Speaker of the House now Congressman Tim Moore,
He's pointed out if you see them just you know,
along the side of the road or at an intersection
on the public right of way, that's just campaign workers.
That doesn't indicate people's support. But if you see yard
signs in people's front yards on their own, that means
they had to go and request the sign, or they
had to agree to get the sign. And so the
more of those that you see, like you drive down
the road and if you know eighty percent of the
homes have a yard sign for this one candidate, then
that would indicate a certain level of support among a
lot of people.
Speaker 5: Right right. But I would counter that by saying, couldn't
you almost a priority predict what I live in a
place called Bibera, Glenn. Yeah, if you're familiar with it,
but I would expect to see a lot of you know,
Republican size.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so during a Republican primary, for example, if you
saw one candidate's name more than another. You would think,
oh this, this candidate may have more support among those
Republican primary voters.
Speaker 5: Right, yeah, well those people are.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you said, uh.
Speaker 2: The point here is that it is represent it can
be I should say, it can be representative of a
level of support if you're if you see a lot
of the signs, right, and that's all that's all it is. Now,
it's not going to be it's obviously not a campaign platform.
It's all about just getting name I D name recognitions.
So when you are thinking about voting, you want to
research your candidates, and you pull up your ballot, you're
going to see that guy's name and you are going
to remember, oh, I saw Joe Blow for Senate.
Speaker 1: I saw that guy signs all over my neighborhood.
Speaker 5: So like I can't remember where I put my key
ten seconds age, I remember these guys.
Speaker 1: There are meds for that. Mark you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to talk about pharmaceuticals one day. I'd
love to talk to you about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Mark, I appreciate the call, man, thank you.
Speaker 1: So yeah all right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Also if done well right, like you could use
your if you have a name that that looks good
With a particular slogan on a sign, you can create
viral moments, or you can get a lot of what
they call earned media coverage, where you do something and
it earns you media earned media, and so that then
means you're getting media covering pro bono.
Speaker 1: You don't have to pay for it at all.
Speaker 2: Right, If you do signs well and it creates some
sort of a buzz, then you know people have done
this with Billboard campaigns and the like, you know, guerrilla
marketing efforts.
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: So I think it's just it's all and how it's done,
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create a video dot com. Happy April Fools Day to
all who celebrate, and if you are one who celebrates,
I loathe you.
Speaker 1: Now I'm kidding.
Speaker 2: It's just a joke. Happy April Fools. No, I don't
do the I don't do the practical jokes and all
of that. I don't mainly because I'm not good at it,
nor do I care to be good at it.
Speaker 1: Because you know then what it like. I've developed this skill.
Speaker 2: I've taken time away from my busy, busy schedule to
try to hone this craft that I only could use
one day a year. Eh, the juice ain't worth the
squeeze on that form me. So that's why I look,
that's why I put the rim shots into the program,
so you know when I'm joking, which, by the way,
this is a bit of a delayed rim shot. I
did not actually go to Greenland.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 2: All right, that was just a joke, and that's different
than practical jokes for April fools. There is a line there, Okay, anyway,
could could it be that we could see the end
of the can the certificate of needs? Oh well, I
guess it would be certificates of need. Yeah, it's like
attorneys general right. North Carolina has some really stupid law
called the Certificate of Need, and state lawmakers have now
filed a bill to dismantle this really stupid law. According
to Jeff Morover at the Carolina Journal dot com, it
takes aim at the healthcare regulatory regime, which restricts the
establishment or expansion of healthcare facilities and services in the state.
I have talked about the con the certificate of need
law for years because it's really stupid. The law, a
whole raft of them, requires healthcare providers to secure what
they call a certificate of need from the government before
you can build a new facility, or if you want
to add hospital beds or you want to buy major
medical equipment, think about how stupid that law is. Hey,
I would like to add some beds to this hospital
because you know, we have a lot of patients. We're
running a hospital. We've realized we need some additional beds,
so we would like to just you know, buy some
additional beds and set them up.
Speaker 1: Please please, Raleigh, Please can I have some extra beds?
Or hm?
Speaker 2: You know what, These MRI machines seem to be in
high demand. We could be doing a lot of MRIs
for people, or cat scans and such. You know when
you want to bring your cat in and have it scan.
And so we're thinking, hey, you know what, let's add
a couple of more of these machines.
Speaker 1: Please Raleigh, please maybe add some more machines like this.
Speaker 2: Is so stupid. If the hospital wants to invest or
a facility, wants to invest in some scanner, some machinery,
some equipment, they would know better than gov CO whether
or not they actually will get a return on that investment.
And if they don't, then they go out of business.
They maybe have to sell the machine. Here's the thing
at some point, those machines get paid off, right, at
some point, it's just almost pure profit. At that point,
once the machine is paid off and you're still using
it after a couple of years, you're just making money
hand over fist. And then you can buy your next machine,
and then you could do twice as much. And at
some point, yes, you're going to say, Okay, we have
enough machines. The sweet spot was three machines, and that's
the number that we're looking at because the supply is
meeting the demand and that's what we wanted.
Speaker 1: Or it maybe you're the only.
Speaker 2: Cat scan in operation in town and I see that
you're the only one, and you have restricted the use
with only one cat scan machine, and so I'm like,
you know what, I feel like I could offer more
cat scans for this demand that is being unmet by
the current supply that you have one machine. So I
go out and I buy two machines and now I'm
doing cat scans and I'm taking business away from you.
Speaker 1: And who benefits you? Right?
Speaker 2: The public does because now you are getting more access
and more machines means competition between you and me, because
you don't want to lose your client base. So you're
gonna now start offering maybe a cheaper price. I don't
have to pay for two machines. I've had this one
machine for a while. It's paid off, So I'm gonna
I'm gonna cut the price on that. Now I'm gonna
have to turn around and cut the price. And so
now we are going to what drive down the price
for the customer. Stop me if you've heard this model before.
This is the free market. This is the free market.
You are the free market. I am the free market.
I say it all the time. We are the free market.
Us making all of these decisions, the businesses making their decisions,
millions and millions of decision points every single second of
every single day. There's no way that govc UP in
Raleigh is going to be able to know what all
of those decision points are at any given moment. It's impossible.
It is the fatal conceit of central planners that they
can somehow know this information even with AI. Yes, all right,
let me go over here and talk to Andy. Hello, Andy,
welcome to the program.
Speaker 4: Hey how are you doing today?
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm good. What's up?
Speaker 4: Good? So I was shocked when you told when you
said that they were having to ask to get in
another piece of equipment because it makes sense, Because it
doesn't make sense, but it makes sense now to me.
About an experience I had last March. I had a
stroke and I was in Carolins Medical Center for four
days and it took about two and a half days
to get an MRI while I was having stroke symptoms.
And every time I would ask, what are we waiting on? Well,
you're in line. There's a lot of people waiting in
front of you. Yeah, why would they not have another
RI machine? They've got all these people waiting to get
in our eyes? It doesn't make.
Speaker 1: Sense, right.
Speaker 2: The market is sending them a signal that they cannot
now respond to or won't respond to. But they cannot
respond to it because they probably would have to go
through and get a certificate of need from the government.
Speaker 4: That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: Isn't it.
Speaker 2: That's it's the stupidest law, and we have it in
this state and you're experiencing it.
Speaker 1: And by the way, you're doing all right from the
from the stroke.
Speaker 4: You look good, Thank the Lord.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good good. Yeah. I've heard the same.
Speaker 4: Crazy is why are there why is there not somebody saying, hey,
there's got to be people who have died waiting to
get these these tests done.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, I mean the numbers would indicate, i mean,
just basic laws of probability, right, would indicate that that
would be the case. Sure, Yeah, Andy, I appreciate Yeah, man,
I appreciate the call. Thank you for the UH, for
the personal info the story there, because I've heard the
same from a friend up in Anshville. She was in
the hospital for over a week because they had I
think she said, they had two MRI machines and one
of them broke down, and so everybody was in line
for this one machine.
Speaker 1: And she's in the hospital.
Speaker 2: I mean, think about the cost now to the system
where you've got somebody who's in the hospital waiting for
an MRI before they can be discharged, and they can't
get them through the process because you have a line
because the one your one other backup machine is now
has gone down.
Speaker 1: It's just it.
Speaker 2: It is a very stupid law. And so kudos to
Senator Benon Sorry, the UH representative from Johnston, the Senator
from Johnston County, North Carolina, for introducing this legislation to
repeal North Carolina's con law.
Speaker 1: It's about time, all right.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to this show, you know I try
to keep up with all sorts of current events, and
I know you do too. And you've probably heard me
say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because
it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've
been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and
it's a website, and it combines news from around the
world in one place so you can compare coverage and
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Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it
also supports ground News as they make the media landscape
more transparent. All right, back to the Carolina Journal story
about the con law potentially being repealed. There's another aspect
to this. Jeff Moore, writing at Carolina Journal dot com,
The process of securing a certificate of need takes time
and money. Competitors can tie up con decisions in lengthy
court battles. Right, So you want to get an MRI
machine at your facility, I'm your competitor, So I start
filing all sorts of temporary restraining orders or injunctions or
gum up the works and stuff so I can block
you from competing with me because maybe I've got an
MRI machine I want people.
Speaker 1: To go to. So that's one way that they use
these cons Another.
Speaker 2: Is that I will get the certificate of need so
you can't because part of this it's the stupidest thing.
I feel like I'm saying that a lot, but it's
so true. It's such a stupid law. I've told this
story before, but like it is the quintessential example of it.
They were wanting to open up on the county line
between I think Henderson County and Bunkham County years ago,
it's like ten years ago, and one of the I
think it was Party Health, and they wanted to open
up a colonoscopy center. Okay, they wanted to open up
this center and the other hospital I think it was
mission they objected, They said, we don't need it. And
so then you end up with like some government regulators
doing market analysis to determine whether or not this service
is actually needed or not in the market based on
the number of people and our market analys indicating, look,
you're not.
Speaker 1: Putting any money up.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't trust your market analysis, gov CO, because
you have no skin in this game. You know who
does I mean besides the patients, the party guys, the
ones who were wanting to open the clinic. They're putting
the money up. They're the ones that are going to
build a facility, staff it, put the equipment in there.
And if they did a market analysis that turned out
to be flawed, they lose their money. Their skin is
in the game, right, their money's on the table, not
gov cos. And and so they held this hearing. They
held a public hearing, and they had members of the
community showing up, and some woman gets up there and
she starts saying, I don't think that this is necessary.
She offered no credentials, like just some rando from down
the block who's like, I think we don't need anymore
Colonoscobe centers. Your opinion does not matter. I'm sorry to
be the bearer of this reality, but you and your
level of expertise are irrelevant in this situation.
Speaker 1: You don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: So no, even though it's a public hearing, and maybe
this is the only opportunity you had to leave the
house this week and talk to people, but your opinion
doesn't matter. You don't know what you're talking about. I
would never get up there and tell some industry you
shouldn't open your facility here because we don't need it.
And I'm basing this on no information whatsoever. Critics point
to the CON laws as a contributing factor in North
Carolina's unenviable position as the highest cost health care market
in the nation, representing a purely bureaucratic barrier that propels
rising healthcare costs and limits accessibility. While more piecemeal reforms
of CON regulations have been enacted and proposed over the years.
Senate Bill three p seventy and a companion piece over
in the House House Bill four to fifty five. If
they aim for a wholesale repeal of the law, it
would take effect on January one, twenty twenty six, if
it is approved, and if it gets the governor's signature,
or he could just let it become law without his signature.
The constitutionality of the certificate of need regime has been
challenged in court multiple times. Last October, the State Supreme
Court vacated a lower court decision in one of those challenges,
keeping the legal case against certificate of need laws alive. Okay,
so we still don't have a determination as to whether
or not this is constitutional, whether it's even allowed. They're
still litigating this stuff. Sponsors of this bill are not
content to wait for the court rulings to potentially overturn
the regime. As a matter of state policy, lawmakers believe
that state bureaucrats should play no part in restricting healthcare
offerings within the tar Heel State, and they would be
absolutely one, one hundred percent correct in that position. All right,
that'll do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: I could not do the show without your support and
the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast.
So if you'd like, please support them too and tell
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thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything
while I'm gone.