WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.879 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Tryout 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.120 Scarecrow's rent by mail service. Choose from over one hundred 3 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:09.839 and fifty thousand films again Blu rays, four k's and 4 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:14.960 DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow dot com today. 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:24.800 Oh g is folks, it's showtime. People say good mighty 6 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:27.280 to see this movie. When they go out to a theater. 7 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:30.199 They want clothed, sodas, hot popcorn in. 8 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.719 No monsters in the Projection Booth. Everyone for tend podcasting 9 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:34.320 isn't boring. 10 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:36.039 Cut it off. 11 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:10.000 One of the ten best films of the year. It 12 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.760 starts over the top, then blasts through the roof. It 13 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:18.760 takes your breath away. 14 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:25.920 The damnedest thing I have seen in years. 15 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:41.920 Guarantee to tingle the most jaded moviegoer's palette. A film 16 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.719 concocted with nitroglycerin, the combined energy of the road Warrior, 17 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:56.040 RoboCop and the Terminator, the Ultimate Cop. 18 00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:09.479 Versus the Ultimate hit Man. This looks for you. Welcome 19 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:11.639 to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White. Joining 20 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:13.439 me once again is Ms. Carol Borden. 21 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:14.319 Hi. 22 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.479 Everybody, Also back in the booth after Far Too Long 23 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:18.719 is Jackie Stargrove? 24 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:20.360 How's it going, Dumbo? 25 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.639 We are back taking a dip into a familiar pool 26 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:28.479 by revisiting a movie we discussed on the podcast way 27 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:31.240 back in the first year of the show, twenty eleven, 28 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:34.840 John Woo's The Killer. Back then, we discussed the influences 29 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.840 of things like this Gun for Hire, le Samurai and Moore. 30 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.520 We also had a pretty well, actually it wasn't that 31 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:44.319 he did discussion around home eroticism presented in the heroic 32 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.400 bloodshed genre of action films. This time around, we're going 33 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:50.599 to go back to nineteen eighty nine's John Woolffilm, but 34 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:54.360 also discuss the twenty twenty four John woolfilm and stop 35 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:58.520 by the nineteen ninety four film Hum hayin Bemesal. Along 36 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.520 the way, The Killer tells the tale of a contract 37 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:05.319 hit man named Jeff in some versions, I'll call him 38 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.400 Jeff for the most part, Cheliu Fat who accidentally blinds 39 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.240 a shantuse named Jenny played by Sally Yeah. Meanwhile, he's 40 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:16.840 being hunted by hot headed super cop Lee played by 41 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.800 Danny Lee. It's an ultra violent treatuse on loyalty friendship 42 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:24.360 and honor set against the underworld of Hong Kong. We 43 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:26.960 will be spoiling this film as well as its remake 44 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.840 and the Indian film it inspired, say as we go along. 45 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:32.960 So if you don't want anything ruined, please go ahead, 46 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.639 turn off the podcast and come back after you've seen 47 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.840 them all. We will still be here. So, Carol, I'm 48 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:41.479 so curious, when was the first time you saw The Killer? 49 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:42.599 And what did you think? 50 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.840 I actually have an answer for this question because you 51 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.960 always asked me that, and I'm like, I don't remember 52 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.400 when I saw this movie, but the first time I 53 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:56.159 saw this movie was Alin Gaddis's Golden Classic Cinemas on 54 00:03:56.240 --> 00:04:02.360 Spadina in Toronto. Oh Wow, four ninety five. I had 55 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:06.280 seen no John Wu. I had seen no Chilian Fought, 56 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:11.159 and it was part of a week dedicated to Chilian Fought. 57 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:16.040 Quote the God of Cool. And after seeing the movie, 58 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.040 I totally understood why Colin was advertising him as the 59 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.399 God of cool, like I had not seen anything like it, 60 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.680 and I loved it right away, and it led to 61 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.000 a lifelong love of Chailean thought and John Wu and Jackie. 62 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:32.720 How about yourself? 63 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.319 I was in high school. I think at the time 64 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.800 summer of two thousand and three, so it would have 65 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:43.079 been going from like my freshmen to sophomore year, and 66 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:47.279 I remember watching it specifically over that summer, and I'd 67 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:49.079 heard about it for years because it's one of those 68 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.240 movies that you know, especially in the earlier Internet for years, 69 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.519 where people talk about movies a lot, but they're not 70 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.319 as super easy to get ahold of as you'd like, 71 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:01.160 especially when that Criterion version of it was already going 72 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.439 for crazy prices and our local Hollywood video had a 73 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:06.959 copy of it, and I was like, well, that's it, 74 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.360 I'm doing this. I had grown up with a lot 75 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:12.079 of Wu's American stuff. I'm sure at some point where 76 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:16.279 we'll get into my apologies for his American filmography, because 77 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.160 I love most of it. Still, I knew that, like 78 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:21.240 the Hong Kong stuff, was where it was, that was 79 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.000 what you had to see. And so even in this 80 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.120 weird I think it was the company was Fox Laber 81 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:29.839 that put out that old DVD that it almost felt 82 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:32.319 like I was watching something that I still wasn't supposed 83 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:33.839 to get a hold of. I wasn't one hundred percent 84 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.319 sure that it was like a legit DVD I'd never 85 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:37.319 heard of this company. It was just sitting there on 86 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:39.120 the shelf. They had that and Hard Boiled, but I 87 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:41.639 only got The Killer the first time around, and yeah, 88 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.000 it just blew me away. It was everything everyone made 89 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.519 it out to me, and I've never been able to 90 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:46.879 let it go. 91 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:49.759 I don't think there's any reason to apologize for his 92 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:54.959 American filmography. I love Hard Target, I love Face Off. 93 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:59.639 I'm not as hot on things like Broken Arrow or Payback, 94 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:03.360 and then I still God, I did this episode twenty eleven. 95 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.000 I still haven't seen Wing Talkers all the way through 96 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:11.439 or Redcliff and I'm a man oh man, But yeah, 97 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.879 some of those movies are fucking fantastic. 98 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:16.240 We're all bad centophiles here. 99 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:18.399 I remember liking wind Talkers, but I haven't seen it 100 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:19.279 since it was brand new. 101 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.279 I wish that he had had more power, and this film, 102 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.639 The Killer comes at an interesting time in his career 103 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.000 where he was I know Better Tomorrow was a huge 104 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:34.120 hit for him. He had already been directing for twenty 105 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:38.480 some years at this point, and no Better Tomorrow comes 106 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:43.639 along really helps redefine the action genre. Reie, in my mind, 107 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:46.480 kicks off the horroic bloodshed drama, which is a mix 108 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:52.439 of action and melodrama, real Douglas Cercian type melodrama, and 109 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.079 some people that's a dirty word melodrama is, but not 110 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.600 for me. I love it, and I love just how 111 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:03.399 emotionally in that film is and this film as well, 112 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.480 things like the little flashbacks that we have, the things 113 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:09.079 that just happened a few minutes ago in order to 114 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:11.839 put you inside of the character's head, and just that 115 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:17.279 overwrought emotion that everybody is showing. I think it's freaking fantastic, 116 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.959 and that, just for me helps when it comes to 117 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:25.079 the poetics of the ballet of violence that happens throughout 118 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:26.639 so much of this movie. 119 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:32.160 It feels very operatic, and that extends to the emotions 120 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.279 as well. When you're doing operatic, you go big all 121 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.480 the way, and this movie goes big on every level. 122 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.800 It would feel like something was missing if any of 123 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.879 those pieces weren't present. 124 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.439 It's very cool. It was very cool of its time. 125 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.279 It was very influential and subsequent action in movies and 126 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.879 in certain ideas even about what's cool in cinema and 127 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.279 to an extent, what's cool in life. Not to the 128 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.680 extent that a Better Tomorrow was where people are walking 129 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:03.439 around sound dressed like Mark with the toothpicks in their 130 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:08.519 mouth and wearing the trench coat. But it's also interesting 131 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:13.040 that it's unashamed of its sentiment, like it's very your 132 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.560 face with its sentiment. It fills up the screen with 133 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.680 the faces of the actors having strong emotional reactions to 134 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:25.439 each other, into their situations in their eyes, like there's 135 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:28.879 time where Italian fought almost looks like he's going to cry, 136 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.399 Like a lot of other action cinemas that are about 137 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:38.399 masculinity and male friendships and are also homo erotic try 138 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:40.679 to be like no, no, being a man is not 139 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.159 feeling things deeply, Like being a man is like the samurai, 140 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.919 like he's aloof he's almost detached from everything. But and 141 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.759 that's an influence on this. But it's like you say, 142 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:55.639 it's it's almost Circian. I hadn't considered that before. But 143 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:57.320 that's a really good point. 144 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:01.320 The emotions are so there and so present, and also 145 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.039 it's so much about this inner turmoil that you're talking 146 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.799 about and the idea of I barely touched on it 147 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.840 the very first time we talked about this. I barely 148 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:15.480 touched on Sergio Leone, and I really feel that there's 149 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:17.840 a sense in this of once upon a time in 150 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:22.000 the West, with the whole idea of the things that 151 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.360 were are no longer going to be. The people like 152 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:29.919 Cheyenne and Harmonica, these almost gods of the old West 153 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.799 are being driven out by that railroad coming in and 154 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:38.279 this one coming in nineteen eighty nine. We're still just 155 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:42.080 what six seven, eight years from the handover of Hong 156 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.639 Kong to China, and this kind of feels like it's 157 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:48.240 really setting the stage and saying like the old ways 158 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:50.159 are not the ways that they used to be because 159 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.759 we have basically three generations of people in this movie. 160 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.919 We've got Sydney and Chang, and I love this whole. 161 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.879 I believe kind of hall gribes it as an h 162 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.080 figure where you've got on one side, you've got Sidney 163 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.240 and Jeff. On the other side, you've got Chang and Lee, 164 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.559 and I find it's interesting that both of those are 165 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.320 very Americanized names in one area, and then more of 166 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.799 the traditional Chinese names on the other side, with Jenny 167 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.120 in the middle. But the area that I really want 168 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.759 to look at too, is that new generation and the 169 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:30.440 idea of Shing fu On hiring Jeff to kill his uncle, 170 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:34.639 and Qing Kuan has no honor, he has no code, 171 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.759 and he is to me representing this new generation that's 172 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.919 coming in. And so you've got Sidney, who's this classic 173 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.240 I will call him a knight because he is so chivalrous. 174 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:50.480 Him and Chang are the older generation. You've got Jeff 175 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.399 and Lee as this kind of they've taken those things 176 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.360 from the past they but yet they have to live 177 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.320 in this new, more violent world of Hong Kong. And 178 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.759 then you've got Shing Fuana's Wang Hoi, the nephew who 179 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.519 just doesn't give a shit about anything, will kill anyone 180 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.360 that gets in his way, including his own freaking family. 181 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.080 One thing that I noticed more this time than and 182 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:17.120 I've watched this movie like you guys a lot of times, 183 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.879 but I was thinking a lot about Chang ChEI and 184 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.639 how John Wu worked with Chang che And part of 185 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.240 the reason that this film was so remarkable is that 186 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.480 he took those one armed swordsman. He took those old 187 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.360 wushia well. Chan Chey came in in his time with 188 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.000 a new whushia that had like male leads, not female leads, 189 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.960 and focused on masculinity and male friendships and honor and 190 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.919 terrible choices, and usually, as in The Killer, the two 191 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.519 sworn brothers die in the end in some terrible way 192 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:57.879 for their honor and their friendship over everything else, to 193 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.399 uphold how things should be, how human relationships should be. 194 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.840 And it's it's interesting that John Wut not only takes 195 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:11.600 that and puts it in a like a then contemporary 196 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.440 action movie with the shootouts and chases and stuff like that, 197 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.360 but then, like you say, the handover is coming, and 198 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:23.279 so it just emphasizes and has a very specific not 199 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:27.960 nostalgia but almost a nostalgic pain for something that's about 200 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.279 to pass. That something isn't the process of passing. That 201 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.960 isn't exactly in Chang che either, because he's making his 202 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.360 movies in the sixties and seventies, so they're like, oh, 203 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:42.000 new things are coming, but it's not maybe the end 204 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:44.799 of the way things are done. 205 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.639 And I want to say Chang Chi also set a 206 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:52.279 lot of his things in older periods, whereas Lou's very contemporary. 207 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:55.600 This feels nineteen eighty nine all the way through. 208 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.240 It's so intangible, but like you just when you get 209 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.000 that feeling in the your stomach that like the glory 210 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:05.240 days are just about to pass something else, some new 211 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.320 generation is coming through and we might not get this 212 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.080 feeling ever again. And it very much folds through another 213 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:14.879 one I was thinking, I'm mentioning Once upon a Time 214 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:16.799 in the West. I also think at the Wild Bunch 215 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.720 is another one that there's no way WU didn't see 216 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:23.000 that with all the NonStop squibs, But the end of 217 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.919 that movie is another one where just a whole generation 218 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:30.279 of those old Western fellows is just wiped out and 219 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:31.559 they're done, their days are over. 220 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.159 And that coming what right at the end of the 221 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.919 sixties as well, just felt like such a turning point, 222 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:41.399 especially as New Hollywood is coming to four and heck 223 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.279 and Paul being I mean, he's a little bit of 224 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:47.399 an older fellow coming in here, but just that felt 225 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.559 like such a turning point in his career as well. 226 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.240 I know he made a few other good films after that, 227 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.279 but then you get into things like, I know, some 228 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:57.919 people really love The Killer Lead and some of these others, 229 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.840 but I'm just like, yeah, Ostra Weekend, it's such weak 230 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.559 sauce compared to what he was doing before. And yeah, 231 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.360 the whole idea of especially the editing, the editing of 232 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.519 The Wild Bunch, the whole idea of expanding time through 233 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.039 slow motion and constantly cutting back to an a action 234 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.519 that is happening in slow motion, back to other action 235 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.679 scenes that are taking place in regular motion, just showing 236 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:28.200 like all of these things are happening at the same time, 237 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.799 and just by extending out the timeline of that person 238 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:36.279 that's maybe falling or getting shot. And the use of 239 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.840 slow mo in this film as well, Oh God, is 240 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:42.600 just so beautiful. The opening. I don't know how many 241 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:47.519 times I can. I've watched the opening Massacre at the Club. 242 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.440 I have seen it so many times, just studied every 243 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.159 single shot in here. I love the things like the 244 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:59.399 rack focus, or when he's out of bullets, Jeff's out 245 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.519 of bullets and sees the gun and he kicks that 246 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.879 table and the gun comes up again in slow motion, 247 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.679 and the way he grabs it multiple times. I love 248 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.600 that multiple camera angles that Wou's doing and the repeated 249 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.320 action that happens like you were seeing, Carol. This just 250 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.600 was such a revolution when it came to how films 251 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:24.080 are being shown and processed. And it's ironic because this 252 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.840 is so new for at least my eyes as a 253 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:32.559 Western viewer, but that he is taking so many of 254 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.879 these other little pieces, Like you said, Chung Che is 255 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.440 definitely more homegrown. But then things like The Wild Bunch 256 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:45.080 and Sergio Leone and I'd love whenever I talked about 257 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.919 spaghetti westerns, it's how are the Italians for reflecting back 258 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:53.240 American culture to us? And this feels like taking all 259 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.320 of these things and saying, no, this is Chinese, now, 260 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.919 this is my thing, and this is how I'm going 261 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:02.039 to shoot action, which becomes such a I don't want 262 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.200 to say it's a cliche because it's not a cliche 263 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.159 at this point. This is such a breath of fresh air. 264 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.399 Yeah, he took all the things that he loved from film, 265 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.279 and you can see it in this film how much 266 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:19.399 he loves film, and he processed them and then gave 267 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:23.039 us this film of I don't want to use digested, 268 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.279 but I can't think of another word like he's taken 269 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.120 in cinema. He's digested in it and he is giving 270 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.360 us something new and something how he wants to see 271 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:39.000 this kind of story and it's still so fresh. That 272 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:40.600 was the thing for me. 273 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:45.039 Watching it again, that perfect combination of influences yet where 274 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:50.039 you can see obviously like their contemporary local influence, but 275 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.320 mixed with especially Western cinema Like this time going back, 276 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.320 I was like, these are guys wearing like pinstripe suits 277 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.080 and stuff. I can't think of a movie from that 278 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.919 region in that era where anyone was dressed like that beforehand. 279 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.680 That was not a popular thing, and he brought it 280 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.799 over and made it cool in a whole different way. 281 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.200 So one of the things that was really interesting to 282 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.319 me even the first time I watched it, but like 283 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:20.480 over the years, was how the suits indicate the moral positioning, 284 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.119 particularly of Danny Lee and Sidney Fong, and in a 285 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:29.839 slightly different way with Chilian fot because Italian Fox Jeff's 286 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:35.000 suit is largely this olive green and then he has 287 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:41.079 this really cool olive leopard print tie. But Sidney Fong, 288 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:47.240 when he comes in as someone who is very following 289 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:50.519 the procedures of the triad, he's in very rules based, 290 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:54.559 very focused on the tradition, and so is honorable in 291 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.240 that sense, like he follows the code of his triad. 292 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.920 He wears a black suit with white pin stripes. Danny 293 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.039 Lee comes in and he's undercover, and he's totally different. 294 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.359 He's wearing a white suit with black pinstripes and a 295 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.559 black shirt, which is revealing that he's not quite the 296 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.720 good guy that he thinks he is or that people 297 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.000 want him to be. And of course by the end, 298 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.640 he's wearing a black suit with a white shirt. Chilian 299 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:26.680 thought is wearing a white suit. That's both showing his 300 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.400 virtue but also tying back to the old Chang ChEI 301 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.319 films where the heroes wore white because white is also 302 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.039 associated with deaf and you can see all their bloodstains 303 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:39.720 when they have their big climactic battle. And Sidney Fung 304 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:44.359 in the end is wearing a gray suit with black 305 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.960 pin stripes. And so here's where I went pooky, because 306 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.039 like for years, I'm like, I feel like there has 307 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.039 to be a transitional suit between where Sidney Fung has 308 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.079 ultimately chosen his side on Jeff and he's still a 309 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.119 bad guy. He still has his little black stripes, but 310 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.160 he's moved into the morally gray world of gray pin 311 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:08.279 straight suits. And when I saw the extended version from Taiwan, 312 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.119 Allen showed that I think at the Blue Theater there's 313 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.839 an intermediary intermediate suit, and I felt so validated that yes, 314 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.839 these suits are significant, that he is using them like 315 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.799 they used to use cat hats in cowboys for cowboys 316 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.319 in westerns, and Sidney Funk has his charcoal suit with 317 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.240 his white stripes as he's begging for Jeff's money back 318 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:36.039 from Shinkoi on. So that is my long tangent and 319 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.640 thank you for your patients. 320 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.599 No, no, I remember I was talking about the suits 321 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.279 in the very first time I talked about this movie, 322 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.599 and just yeah, how he changes, how they both changed 323 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.240 throughout this entire film. So yeah, you said it much 324 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.240 more elegant than me. And plus I really wasn't looking 325 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.519 at Sydney. I was looking at just Jeff and Lee. 326 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.039 So having that idea of where Sydney's loyalties lay, because 327 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.799 Sidney is such a fascinating character to me, especially that 328 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.200 he's damaged that the one hand doesn't work, but that 329 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.480 he makes a point when he can't catch that beer, 330 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.720 but then he makes the point of well it still 331 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.880 works for the gun though. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's nice. 332 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:18.279 Yeah, he's been saving that up and not doing it 333 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.200 because it would be against what you do in the triad. 334 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.440 Until everything is off for him anymore. 335 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:28.640 That longer cut is really fascinating. If memory serves, this 336 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:32.559 is the one that has the two attacks of Jenny, 337 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.680 so you get that mirroring of Lee and Jeff even 338 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.119 more as far as the repeated actions, because I know 339 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.680 Jeff for sure in the regular version that everybody sees 340 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:44.920 saves Jenny when she's coming out of the club one 341 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.880 night after she's been blinded by his muzzle flash, and 342 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.920 I want to say that if it's not in the 343 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.720 hi Wan version, it's definitely in the deleted scenes. There's 344 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.359 also an attack that happens to Jenny where Lee saves her, 345 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.720 and that it's Jeff saving her, and I'm just like, 346 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.160 I'm glad that's not in the regular version, just because 347 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.680 all right, that she always just need to be saved. 348 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.000 This is probably a really bad betrayal of a female character, 349 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.039 but at the same time, Sally Yev just pulls it 350 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.359 off as Jenny so well, and I just love her 351 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.720 as a character, even though she is pretty weak and 352 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.680 obviously gets fooled very easily as a blind person, especially 353 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.759 in that incredible scene with Jeff and Lee pointing the 354 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.160 guns at each other and really meeting for the first time, 355 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.319 and that's when they start. The whole nickname thing that 356 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.920 goes on that scene is just so delightful for me. 357 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:44.000 Yeah, the nickname thing in particular has always tickled me. 358 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.400 This time I went, I watched that new four K 359 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.640 restoration that just came out, and half of my curiosity 360 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.440 was like, what are the names going to be? And 361 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.359 in this one they went with the classic Mickey Mouse 362 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.359 and Dumbo, which I've never understood because I don't associate 363 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:01.279 those characters as knowing each other. But I would put 364 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.119 like Mickey Mouse with Donald Duck. That almost makes it 365 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:04.720 funnier to me. 366 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.519 Yeah, I remember, there's butt head, there's shrimp head. Shrimp 367 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.480 Head seems like it would definitely be more of a 368 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.319 of a Hong Kong insult to me, But yeah, over 369 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.400 Dumbo and Mickey Mouse. But yeah, whatever, float your boat. 370 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.480 Apparently there's a there's a numbnuts version of what I remember. 371 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.359 It was right around the time of Vivis and butt 372 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.039 Head on MTV, So when they start calling each other 373 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.119 butt head, I was like, Okay, yeah, that hits a 374 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:33.279 little different now than it would have just even a 375 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:34.119 few years prior. 376 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.680 I had heard and I have no idea how true 377 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.720 this is And it wasn't something I looked up when 378 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.880 we were talking about doing this, but like years and 379 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.480 years ago, I had heard that one of the names 380 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:50.599 in Cantonese for Danny Lee was Danny Lee's nickname. I 381 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.640 don't know if that's true, but like you say, shrimp 382 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.839 head sounds like a very Cantonese Hong Kong nickname, because 383 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.759 like Shing Foyan's was like what big Ugly had. 384 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.480 I love that his nickname in Return of the Demon 385 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.079 was fierce or that was his character's name, And I'm 386 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:10.279 just like, if anybody portrays the word fierce, it's Shingfalon 387 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.079 just because of that that resting bitch face that he has. 388 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.400 And it wasn't it it was him versus chill Yan 389 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:21.759 Fat and tigrind Beat, the first Tigrin Beat. I think, Yeah, 390 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:27.480 they had that incredible chainsaw fight man that movie wow. 391 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.039 I mean that was the thing about The Killer was 392 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.000 it just opened up this whole world of other Hong 393 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:36.839 Kong films for me. And this was such a great introduction. 394 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.960 Not everything looked like this, not everything felt like this. 395 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:43.079 There was some that had some elements of it, but 396 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.559 just this open up that door to this wide world 397 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.359 of what at that point, I want to say it 398 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:54.839 was the third largest cinema production area in the entire world. 399 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:56.960 I want to say it was either the US and 400 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.680 then Bollywood, or it could have been vice versa and 401 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.200