Speaker 1: The value that they're getting out of working with you.
It's not in the time that they're spending with you.
The time that you're spending with them is helping them
to shortcut that process. But the ultimate value is in
the outcome that they're getting. And if you look at
it through that lens, they're getting the same outcome whether
they're doing it in a group environment or whether they're
doing it one on one with you. It's just that
there are different people and they value different ways of
working with an expert to get that outcome. Welcome to
imperfect Action. I'm Steph Taylor. For years, I read all
the books, downloaded all the freebies, and did all the courses,
but it wasn't until I started taking imperfect action that
my business had its first million dollar year. Imperfect action
is about doing things before you're ready, prioritizing consistent action
over perfect action, and moving forward even when you're not
sure you're doing it right. On this show, you can
expect mindset advice, actionable marketing tips and strategies to build
a business that brings you more profit, more freedom, and
even more joy. Are you on the list to get
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co forward slash DBB, or at the link and the
show notes. Hey, welcome back to In Perfect Action. This
is episode eight hundred and forty one. Today is a
live coaching call with one of my all time favorite
students who I've spent a lot of time hanging out
with on live calls, and she came to my one
day planning retreat that I ran last year with Claire Wood.
Her name is Carolyn Allen. She's a degree qualified clinical
natural path nutritionist and certified yoga teacher, and she's one
of those people who has a lot of different skills
that she can offer, and she's working with a lot
of clients in a one on one format. Her big
challenge that we are working through in our call today
is in how she can add other offers to her
business so that she's not having to spend all of
her time working one on one, because that can be
quite exhausting. And as you'll hear her say in the
episode as well, she's an introvert like me, so she
wanted to be able to add some other offers to
her business, but she was worried that it would cannibalize
I guess her one on one offer that she currently has.
So this is a really great conversation for you to
listen in on, especially if you are somebody who is
struggling with coming up with other ideas for what to offer,
if you are feeling stuck doing a lot of one
on one work, and particularly if you are struggling with
things like pricing and structuring your offers, you will get
a lot out of today's episode. So let's jump in,
all right, Carolyn, welcome to Imperfect Action. You've been a
very long time loyal listener and you've come through a
few of my different offers and now I'm excited to
workshop a challenge that you're dealing with in your business today.
So I'd love it if you could please introduce yourself
to our listeners, tell them who you are, what you do,
and share a little bit about what you are struggling
with in your business and how I can help you today.
Speaker 2: Hie Stamp. So, i I'm Carolyn Allen. I am a
naturopath and a yoga teacher, and at the moment I'm
seeing clients one on one and virtually and so offer
naturopathic consults as well as an opportunity to work with
me for twelve weeks in a personalized nutrition program for
metabolic balance. So basically is a It's an awesome program,
and I get such good results that, you know, I
end up with lots of clients wanting to do it,
and I guess I really love it and I love
the results people are getting. But I wanted to create
some programs also in the I guess we'll say weight loss,
sustainable weight loss, cleaning up hormones, just feeling good again.
And I don't know how to do it without jeopardizing
the program, the longer program, and I've been a little
bit stuck on it. So I you know, I do
launch magic with you. I do boost your brand super fans,
I do conversion like I do all of it with you,
and it's so helpful and it's really helped the larger programs.
But I was wondering, how do I how I approach
this and launching a smaller program, even if it's three weeks,
four weeks, without messing up what I've already got.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so a couple of different ways we can
go with this, but I think the first question I
have for you is what is the underlying motivation for
wanting to create a smaller offer.
Speaker 2: It would be less one on one, so it would
be more of a program people could buy and work
through it on their own. They'll still get a lot
of guidance with me and access to me within a
Facebook group or a community of some sort, but it's
less meat, so it would be people doing in their
own time.
Speaker 1: Okay, and so you mentioned you've got the twelve week
program met a lot of metabolic balance. Does that have
a one on one component to it or is that
purely grouped?
Speaker 2: No, it's one on one, And at the moment, I
am really hands on with any client that I work with,
and I can't help myself. I really do love it,
and I love helping people and just seeing that spark
will come back. So at the moment, you know, it's
weekly if they wanted fifteen minute catchups, it's texting when
they need support. And most of the clients I seem
to attract are really respectable and I haven't had anyone
and across the line with texting me at all hours,
so it's been good. So it's a lot more access
to me that program.
Speaker 1: Have you considered creating a self paced version of metabolic Balance?
I have with the program. As part of the training
I did and the contracts I signed, I have to
offer one on one a few one on one sessions
with the clients. I could make it a group program.
That was what I was thinking to do. But then
I struggle with that and think, oh, would I have
to reduce the price. Yeah, I get all up in
my head about it because I have.
Speaker 2: Worked out a way I could make that a group
program and a little bit less time intensive for me.
Speaker 1: What's the hesitation?
Speaker 2: I'm just I guess it's a little bit like will
people think it's worth it to pay two thousand dollars
or seventeen ninety five or a program because they don't know.
You don't know what. You don't know until you start
working through things. So it's not a weight loss program
for everyone. It's very tailored. It uses your blood work,
it uses your measurements. We do a whole ninety minute
case like I take their case before it. So it's
not a you know, go low carb and lose weight
or key show or whatever it is. It's a little
bit more detailed, and you know, I liking it to
cleaning up a muddy pool and then seeing what's actually
left so we can get really targeted with treatment. So
I'm sure it would work beautifully as a program, a
group program. I'm just not sure how to make switch
it up in my mind so that I think it's
enough value because in my mind, I think, oh, you know,
they want access to me all the time, and you know,
I'm sure a lot of them would be happy be
in a group.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing, though, is the value that they're
getting out of working with you. It's not in the
time that they're spending with you. The time that you're
spending with them is helping them to shore cut that process.
But the ultimate value is in the outcome that they're getting.
And if you look at it through that lens, they're
getting the same outcome whether they're doing it in a
group environment or whether they're doing it one on one
with you. It's just that there are different people and
they value different ways of working with an expert to
get that outcome. So the people and also they have
different kinds of budgets. There's different ideal clients, so there
are people who are still going to see that value
in a group version, possibly even more so than in
a one on one environment, because they're still getting that
same outcome, but there's also now a community aspect to it,
which can be quite nice, and some people prefer that.
Other people will prefer to just pay an expert and
get the result as quickly as possible, while some will
prefer to learn a little bit do it on their own.
So it's not I don't think the value is an
issue here, So that's definitely an option.
Speaker 2: So the other thing I was thinking is, you know,
because I I've got a science degree and the natural
path and nutritionness, and I was thinking to create my
own program that is a four week less you know,
it would be more of a generic type of program,
but it wouldn't be a lot like it wouldn't be
metabolic balance. It would be something completely different and have
that as a different offering.
Speaker 1: What would be the outcome time.
Speaker 2: Weight loss, almost like dipping their toe into kind of
feeling good again, and then if they wanted to, they
could continue working with me as their natural path. So
it would be a little less intensive than metabolic balance,
but still deliver results where they're feeling good again, or
they're starting to get their mojo back.
Speaker 1: Okay, So a couple of questions that come up as
you're speaking there. So in those three weeks, are the
results that they're going to get, Are they are the
results that they can realistically get and sustain going to
be aligned with what they're or sorry, four weeks? In
those four weeks, are the results that they get in
that time going to be aligned with their expectations? So
are they going to come in thinking I'm going to
lose twenty kilograms in four weeks, but realistically they can't
expect to do that and maintain it, and then they
might leave feeling a little bit like deflated almost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is always a risk. And the thing is,
if I called I would just put everyone who A
lot of the women I work with on metabolic balance
because it works so well and they see such good results.
So this was more of an option for people who
maybe didn't have the budget to work with a naturopath
because it's quite expensive to work with an atropath long Chan,
So that was an option I was floating to kind
of be a little bit more accessible for women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it. In conjunction with having metabolic balance
as also an option to work in like a group
program format, so deeper. Yeah, okay, yeah, because somebody who's
coming through the four week program, they're probably not the
kind of person who values paying an expert natural path
for the one on one and they're probably not at
that stage, you know, either in their life where they've
realized like, oh my time's really important and I value
somebody's expertise and a tailored solution, or they just don't
have the budget for it, in which case, having that
next step be something that is not completely self paced
but still and they're still getting your guidance, but it's
a bit more affordable and it's not that one on
one option. I think having that would be a really
great option.
Speaker 2: So having metabolic Balance and turning it into a group
program and the two ways to do it on one
or group, Yeah, I can see working as a group,
because even yesterday I was thinking, Okay, well I'll create
a Facebook group for the women I'm already working with,
because the other beautiful thing is they are all such
amazing women who I think, like I genuinely think would
benefit from knowing each other and for really just going
through the program together. So it is from a place
for me of I think there's a lot of value
in it, and I want to do the right thing
by the people who work with me. So I had
been toying yesterday with the idea of a group, like
forming a group, and then I guess it's just thinking
about the structure of how it would go because some
people won't want to talk about what they're going through
in a group way. So when you're going through metabolic balance,
there will be things that come up for women who
you know, they're not going to want to talk about
some of the bowel movements they're having, or they're not
going to talk about motions, all of that stuff. So
it's kind of it's coming up with a balance and
whether that is completely rethinking the one on one part.
So it's a bit of a combination. What would you
say about.
Speaker 1: That combination could work? It does run the risk then
of adding more onto your plate when you're already quite
busy with one on ones. I would say though, like,
also you could you get to set the context and
the environment of that group container, and if you normalize
talking about things that they would normally not talk about
or not feel comfortable talking about which I mean those
things that you mentioned, they're very normal bodily things that
everybody's experiencing. So if you make it normal from day
one that you get to talk about those things, then
that can actually encourage them to open up and share
a bit more around that. And there might be some
people who are uncomfortable talking about that, and maybe those
kinds of people would be the people who would invest
in a one on one over a group program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they do a one on one with
me and spend ninety minutes with me initially because they
have to do that. So I'm guessing a lot of
what we can talk about can happen in that first
session with the people, and then perhaps moving in into
more of a group format with an option of like
even breakaway rooms or what do you call what do
you call it? You mentioned it before on a podcast.
Speaker 1: Oh, like we do peer masterminds those kinds of things.
They wanted something else, it was like drop ins, so
office hours, office hours, So perhaps having that as an
option so every week, you know, every Wednesday, perhaps I
could open up where people can just jump on and
have a call. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, or you
could even you can do a combination of how you
do the voice how you do like messaging support. You
could say, well, in the group program, you get three
hours on a Friday afternoon, I'm there with my messaging
app open, and you can voice, note me or message me,
and I'll reply to you in that three hours, and
any messages that are received outside of those three hours,
then it's up to you. You can say I'll answer them
next week, or they have to be submitted in that
three hours to get an answer, like something like that
could be an option as well. Yeah, I quite like that,
and I like the idea that so it's twelve weeks,
what you could do with the group program is run
it twice a year, so you've got a bit of
a gap in between. And what you could do right
before you run that twelve weeks is you could run
a live round of the four week program before week course.
Speaker 2: Do you think because I would want it really open
all the time and people starting whenever, because I don't
want to do it as a twelve week box where
everyone starts at the same time. I almost want it
to be what do you think now?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I find that really challenging in
that you're going to have people in the group who
are at very different stages.
Speaker 2: But can they not just benefit as well like the
other people will benefit from people who have you know,
are a week six compared to week one? Like do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But how are you going to structure the calls then?
Because what I imagine what you talk about in the
first live call is going to be very different to
what you talk about in the fifth life call.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I know you want to have it open all the time,
but that's where if somebody wants to join in between rounds,
then they can come to the one on one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm trying to think of how it could
work without making it. I don't know step So.
Speaker 1: You could think, what's the hesitation with running it twice
a year as a live round?
Speaker 2: I think there is. I guess there's something wrong with
doing that because also a lot of people in December
aren't wanting to sign up to do whatever Christmas time.
So really I could struck sure it go through and
have a think about how that would work, and then
use launch Magic as well, which has been awesome with
formululating a messaging when it was a one on one
as well. So now I could go back with the
vision of making it a group program and then structure
it like that. Yeah, that could work.
Speaker 1: I worry about.
Speaker 2: How do I make money in between? So if so,
I don't have enough people sign up with Metabolic Balance,
because it really is dependent on who's having a consult
with me, who's right for the program. So that's how
it works at the moment, when people have their nineteen
minutes with me and go through everything basically from birth
until now, and then I might recommend the program.
Speaker 1: So what you might have then is if you've got
that four week course you said you're going to have
like a four week kind of intro thing that could
be available all the time, but maybe to tie it
in with the twelve week program so that it's a
clear next step, maybe you'll run one or two live
rounds of that each year. So yeah, let's say that
you open doors to the group program on the first
of July. You would want to have it so that
that three week or four week course ends on the
thirtieth of June, so then if they want to join that,
if they want to continue, then they can go and
sign up straight away.
Speaker 2: Very clever. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's a really like it's a simple way to do it.
And then that way, it's also still available all year round.
But if people want to do it as part of
a group and have a bit more of a community vibe,
keep each other accountable, they can do it in one
of those live rounds, okay. And if they've fallen off,
if they've signed up in say January, and they forgot
about it or they fell off the bandwagon, they can recut.
They can come to the live round and do it then,
all right.
Speaker 2: And so structuring it, I would just go through and
then work out dates and then kind of work backwards
from there, and then with the programs in between, because
there's a couple of different programs I call create for
people as well that are for a week with different focuses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe the first step would be, let's set
aside the four week one for now, because that's going
to be the most work realistically, and set the goal
of doing the twelve week one at some point in
this second holme, I guess we're past the second half,
like the in the remaining months of this year, run
that twelve week program once and then that'll give you
a bit more and you can live launch it and
do all of that using launch magic, but it'll give
you a bit more of an idea of what of
where those people are at when they come into the program,
and then you can almost work backwards from that and
figure out, Okay, these are the kinds of people who
are coming into this program. What can I give them
in those four weeks of the other course to set
them up better for more, for more sustainable weight loss,
more success when they come into the group program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess that could be very much a
mindset thing as well, like even making it a two
week you know, refresh for two weeks where they're just
focusing in because that's a little bit more durable and
it wants you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can test. You can test different ones
the first time you run it. It can be a live
round four week one or two week one or whatever
it is. You can run it as a live round
and you might run it as a mindset one the
first time, and then you might say, well, actually, I
didn't love teaching that. Try something different. So you can
test the different things before you eventually settle on the
final one that will become available all the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So first step really is to map
out what a group program would look like for metabolic balance,
and then maybe even just having a qualifying form as well. Yes,
that would be probably a good step too, because it's
not suited for everybody.
Speaker 1: No, And what I do want to caution against what
I see happening a lot when people try and take
a one on one and turn it into a group
version is as they're outlining, they'll be like, oh, but
what about somebody who's in this situation or what about
this situation? So the challenge with turning one on one
into a group option is to really make it quite
generic what you're talking about with all of them, and
then if there's anything specific that gets taken care of
in their one on one with you or in those
weekly office hours Q and as whatever you want to call.
Speaker 2: Them, yep, okay, And I guess if there's recurring means,
I can just create a video where they can watch
it and have a library of common things I'm seeing,
and I like, I guess my only hope is that
people see the value in that, and I wouldn't myself.
I don't know I guess because I have been so
hands on with everybody how that I would feel if
you day I stopped doing that or off that. But
at the end of the day, people are really busy
as well, and that is something I have noticed where
consult can be a little bit annoying for people every week.
So maybe it is a better format. And then like
you have with Launch Magic, alumni comeback and they redo
it and they redo it and it is an opportunity
for a lot of people who restart the program or
just want to be part of the community. Can stain that.
Would you recommend that?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's I mean, I would say think about it,
because you might find that keeping the group sizes smaller
helps the women to open up more and get better results.
But on the flip side, you might find that actually
they thrive off a larger group.
Speaker 2: It could always be one call is for the current group,
and one call a week could be asking anything.
Speaker 1: A lot of calls two. Yeah, of course, No, I
think that's actually probably about right. I'm just when you're
outlining it, be really intentional with how much you're adding
onto your plate, because it's really easy when you're outlining
something to be like and I'm going to add this,
and I'm going to have this and all these extra calls,
and then when it comes to delivering it, then you're
going to find that that's quite exhausting. So just keep
that in mind, especially since you're also doing one on ones,
trying to make sure that your calendar is not totally overloaded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am quite conscious of that because I am
an introvert, so talking to people all day every day
is a lot for me, even though I love it.
So it's that too.
Speaker 1: But I think.
Speaker 2: Trying to keep it a community that's smaller for the
group starting is important because they won't be as they
aren't as to begin with. There is a lot of
worry that they whist people do it. Ninety nine percent
of the women I've worked with have had amazing results,
So I want to spread the word and get more
people being able to do it.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: Would you keep it at the same price.
Speaker 1: The price as one on one?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, so it would be lower because the one on
one they're getting your time, Yes, And I mean I
suspect that you're probably not charging enough for your one
on ones at the moment.
Speaker 2: Look, I did increase the price and I'm sitting with
that price for a little bit. Okay, it is a
little bit challenging at the moment when there does seem
to be a little bit more portion around spending. Yeah,
so I'm happy with the price. I've increased it too.
I think it's still doablek with some people for most
people to make it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then I would have the I would have
the group program option as slightly less than that because
they're not getting as much of your time, they're not
getting as much of your they're not getting the personalized
attention that they would if it was one on one,
and if they want that, then they do need to
pay a bit more for that.
Speaker 2: Okay. Would you have two options? Work with me one
on one or do it as part of the.
Speaker 1: Group potentially, There's two ways you can do it. You
can position them as two separate offers, or you can
position them as two different versions of the same offer.
I would, Yeah, I would. Probably the easiest way of
doing it is position them as two versions of the
same offer. But you might find that once you launch it,
or once you start going through launch Magic with this
offer in mind, you might find that the messaging is
slightly different because they are different ideal clients at the
end of the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I think it would probably go down a
treat with a lot of people who have been wanting
to do it and just can't stretch to do it
at the moment.
Speaker 1: And I think that first launch that you're going to
do this year, this side of Christmas, that first launch,
you'll get a lot of those people in and they'll
probably be the people who are really warm, engaged. They've
been following you for a while, they've been wanting to
work with you for a while, but they just haven't
been able to afford to Those people will probably sign
up them that first round, and they will be the best,
not guinea pigs, but the best feedback source for you
because they can tell you like they really want to,
like they want to have a great experience with you.
They can tell you this is what's working, this is
what I'm stuck on, and then you can take that
on board and refine it for the next round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, would you ask any would you recommend me
asking some of my past clients what they think of
the idea or would it be irrelevant.
Speaker 1: If you could? I have I feel that they'll probably
just tell you it's a great idea, because they don't
want to disappoint you, and also they're not your ideal
client for this offer. Yeah, okay, it would be better
off chatting to people who've inquired about working with you
one on one in the past and who've come back
and said I can't afford it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have to think about how much I
would chart for it, because I still need to if
I am doing an hour or every week or just
opening up, it is still a lot of my time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I would do is I would work
backwards and think about, Okay, how many people do you
want to have in this first round, because if it's
a group program, obviously fifty people is going to be
really it's going to be too much, right, So do
you want ten people? Is it twenty people? What's their
group size?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because everyone would have to have the initial consult
which is ninety minutes.
Speaker 1: And then think about how much of your time is
it going to take to deliver the whole program. So
that's say ten people times ninety minutes plus two calls
a week, so that's an extra two hours a week.
Tom's twelve's week, twenty four weeks plus I think fifteen
hours of one on ones, So that's thirty nine hours
of your time to deliver the group, plus any admin
managing the actual Facebook group, all of that kind of thing. Yeah,
so then think about, okay, so how much does how
much do you need to make in that first round
for it to be worth your time? And then work
backwards from that.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's really clever.
Speaker 1: That's like the most logical way to do it. And
then in future rounds when you run it, as you
become more comfortable with the amount of value that you're
delivering in that group, you can put that price up
a little bit. But I think in the first round
you can start it a little bit lower until you're
feeling a lot more comfortable with how much value you're
delivering and you're feeling comfortable with the format, the structure,
all of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are things I could record as well
great as part of it. So there's a lot of
at least personalized and there's a lot of one on
one components to it where I have to explain things
in different ways. But there are things where you know,
I'm repeating myself. So yeah, and also people might want
to replay it and watch it again because they have
thought what I originally said.
Speaker 1: Excellent, there we go.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well I've got a plan now, a
lot more work to think about, but that's okay.
Speaker 1: Now you've just got to take action on it and
you can do it imperfectly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Well, you know it's a good timing because
there are only six week six of Launch Magic, so
I will go back and kind of rejig what I'm
currently doing.
Speaker 1: And you've already got a lot of that from the
one on one, so you don't have to completely reinvent
the wheel. But it will be a good It will
be a good process to get you clear on what
it is and what it looks like.
Speaker 2: But even the sales page and just making sure it's
really clear and yes in size. Ah, thank you?
Speaker 1: Exciting. Do you have any other questions or anything else
I can help you with before we wrap up?
Speaker 2: No, I think I just need to jump back in
and do my Launch Magic stuff.
Speaker 1: And for any of our listeners who are listening along
and thinking that your program or your one on one
sound like what they need, where can they find more
about you? Where can they find more about your offers?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so if you had to to Carolyn allenhelp
dot com, or you can follow me at the balance
statripath amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Carolyn. This has been so fun
chatting and work shopping together. And I hope that your
program launch goes well in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 2: I guess now, yeah, I think we will. I think
we can do it. I'll be it be on the
next call for launch maradic amazing.
Speaker 1: All right, that is it for today's episode. If you
haven't already hit subscribe, make sure you hit the plus
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app every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Thank you so much
for listening. Catch you next time.