1
00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to episode ninety six of Get Out Alive, a

2
00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:28,760
podcast about animal attacks, why they happen, and how we

3
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,000
can avoid them. We're back after a year hiatus. I'm

4
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,399
your host, Ashley, and I'm here with a very special

5
00:00:36,439 --> 00:00:41,079
guest today, Hannah. Hi everybody, Hannah you were here. I

6
00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:43,640
forget what number episode it was, but we record an

7
00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:47,280
episode years ago on Asian Elephants.

8
00:00:47,799 --> 00:00:50,399
Speaker 2: It's been a minute, yeah, a long time ago. I'm

9
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:51,359
very happy to be back.

10
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you want to tell people why you're here.

11
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 3: I'm here because Ashley and I started a new podcast.

12
00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,159
It's called Up All Night, and it's about parenting and

13
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,040
pregnancy and postpartum, and it's basically just a place for

14
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,200
people to gather and listen to us. Gabin, I mean

15
00:01:08,239 --> 00:01:12,120
we're sitting down having coffee and just talking real talk

16
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:13,200
about motherhood.

17
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I you know, obviously it's been a minute

18
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,760
since I've posted on here, almost exactly a year, and

19
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,840
where we last left off, I was telling you all

20
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,239
that I'd had the miscarriage and then I needed part

21
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,799
of my cervice taken out so I wouldn't get cancer,

22
00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:31,680
and then I left it there like right before I

23
00:01:31,719 --> 00:01:35,640
had that procedure, So some stuff has happened since then,

24
00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:37,799
and I won't get into all of it because we

25
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,640
talk about it in the first episode of Up All Night,

26
00:01:39,719 --> 00:01:42,519
which is out now wherever you get podcasts except Apple podcasts.

27
00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:46,200
But we're working on it and I've set it so

28
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,319
many places online and I've said it on that podcast,

29
00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:51,400
But now that I'm back on Getting Alive, I just

30
00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:55,400
want to say, like the sincerest thank you to everyone

31
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,040
who reached out to me and continues a year later

32
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,480
to reach out to me about talking about my miscarriage

33
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,439
on this podcast, like it truly blew me away and was,

34
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,560
honestly a large reason why Hannah and I wanted to

35
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,560
start Up All Night is because of how many people

36
00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:11,199
reached out after I had the miscarriage and said, hey,

37
00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:14,479
me too, thanks for talking about it. Like literally, just

38
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,360
this past week, I was messaging someone who was like, Hey,

39
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,759
I haven't heard people talk about this openly, so thanks

40
00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:22,560
for doing that. Like I haven't experienced that, but I'm

41
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,439
afraid of trying to get pregnant or I've had an

42
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,719
abnormal pap smear and it scared me, so thanks for

43
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,960
talking about it, like we all need to be talking

44
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,599
about these things more. And I know that this is

45
00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:34,599
a podcast but animal tax and that's fine. So I

46
00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:37,039
don't want to keep bringing this stuff up here, So

47
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,960
we made a new place for it. So if you're

48
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,159
interested in that content, even if you're not a woman

49
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,319
or someone with a vagina and you don't know if

50
00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:45,520
you want to be a parent or if you do

51
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,639
want to be a parent, like it's for really everybody.

52
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,840
You don't have to be pregnant or whatever, but we

53
00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:54,680
are pregnant. So that's where we're coming at it from.

54
00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:59,520
I am thirty four weeks as of today, Miss Hannah.

55
00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I'm eighteen weeks today. This is gonna be

56
00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:03,439
my second baby.

57
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So because of the fact that I'm giving

58
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,560
birth next month, I cannot promise any sort of regularity

59
00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:13,879
to Get It Alive. It takes a lot more research

60
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,400
than something like Up All Night, where we're mostly chatting

61
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,319
about just parenting topics. But I would love to get

62
00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:20,879
back in to Get It Alive as much as I can.

63
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,120
So Hanna and I are doing this mom centered episode

64
00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:27,360
of Get It Alive talking about mother animals attacking people. Also,

65
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,639
Mother's Day just passed, so we figured it was appropriate,

66
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,159
and we have another episode Hanna and I are going

67
00:03:32,199 --> 00:03:34,199
to do that. We hope to put out soon, maybe

68
00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:37,000
in two weeks would be great, and then after that,

69
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,800
who's to say, But either way you can hear me

70
00:03:40,919 --> 00:03:44,000
on Up all Night with Hannah every week, which will

71
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:44,439
be nice.

72
00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:47,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think one of the things we're trying

73
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,439
to do with Up All Night is connect more parents

74
00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:52,919
with each other and connect people through these common experiences,

75
00:03:52,919 --> 00:03:56,680
like Ashley was saying, that tend to go unspoken about

76
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,879
until it happens to you, and then people sort of

77
00:03:58,919 --> 00:04:01,560
come out of the woodwork and are like, yeah, that

78
00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:03,719
happened to me too, but nobody talks about it and

79
00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:04,800
it's so isolating.

80
00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:06,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I said it in the first episode

81
00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:09,080
of Up all Night, But the only reason I was

82
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,159
able to I mean, Hannah was obviously a huge part

83
00:04:11,199 --> 00:04:12,439
of it, but the only reason I was able to

84
00:04:12,439 --> 00:04:15,000
get through that first miscarriage was the fact that so

85
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,879
many of you were so kind and sent just truly

86
00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:22,759
the nicest messages to someone who's essentially a stranger, like

87
00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:24,759
you might listen to the podcast, but you don't really

88
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,759
know me. And the fact that any of you would

89
00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:28,920
take a moment to reach out and say something nice

90
00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:32,240
is incredible. It makes me want to cry. So I'm

91
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:39,120
gonna move on. We're gonna get into this episode. Oh boy. Okay, So,

92
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,319
like I said, we're doing mom centered stories here and

93
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,879
a joke that we have made on up all night

94
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,560
in an episode that is yet to be released, we

95
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,800
were trying to talk about having boundaries and wanting to

96
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,600
set boundaries but not be too harsh. And what was

97
00:04:57,639 --> 00:05:00,480
the reference that we made or like the rays that

98
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:01,079
we coined.

99
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,959
Speaker 3: We talked about going full grizs Ah, yes, full grizz

100
00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,000
versus half gris too there was yeah, yeah, there was

101
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,800
a distinction between the two.

102
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean, if you're here, if this is

103
00:05:14,519 --> 00:05:16,839
not your first time listening together alive, you know that

104
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,800
probably of all the animals that we've talked about, grizzly

105
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,680
bears are some of like the fiercest moms out there,

106
00:05:22,959 --> 00:05:25,839
and sometimes I don't want to say they overreact, but

107
00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:29,160
they like will just kill a person without questioning whether

108
00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:31,040
or not you were actually gonna hurt their babies. So

109
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,560
obviously the first story we're going to talk about is grizzlies. Now,

110
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,399
a lot of the stories I'm talking about today are

111
00:05:38,439 --> 00:05:41,480
actually like really recent, which is crazy. This one that

112
00:05:41,519 --> 00:05:43,879
we're starting with happened on May fourth.

113
00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:46,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that was like, what last week? A

114
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,839
couple of weeks ago? Super recent?

115
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think last week? Yeah, so May fourth, twenty

116
00:05:52,079 --> 00:05:55,680
twenty six, and it happened in Yellowstone. So this attack

117
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,160
marks the first attack of the year at Yellowstone and

118
00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:01,800
a pair of brothers aged fifteen and twenty eight. We

119
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,839
don't have names yet because it was so recent and

120
00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:07,720
sometimes things need to be investigated before identities are released

121
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,680
and whatnot. So these brothers, these young guys, were hiking

122
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,879
northwest of Old Faithful on the Mystic Falls Trail in Yellowstone,

123
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,199
and like I said, details are still kind of being

124
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,680
sorted out, but what officials believe occurred was that a

125
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,920
sow in two to three cubs under the age of

126
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,879
one were involved in this attack. And by a sow

127
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,360
I mean like a mother grizzly, and investigators have not

128
00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:36,000
indicated that they're trying to track down like any sort

129
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,120
of specific bears because they are just assuming that this

130
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,279
was like a mother being spooked and defending her cubs.

131
00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,680
One of the crazy details about this attack, though, is

132
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,240
that likely the reason that the two victims were found

133
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,839
and saved is because of a man named Craig Lherman.

134
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,399
Craig was hiking the same trail as these two victims

135
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,199
around the same time and started recording a video on

136
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,319
his phone of some Grizzly tracks that he saw on

137
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,160
the trail, and the videos of him following the tracks

138
00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:07,079
just like out of curiosity. He's like, oh, look, these

139
00:07:07,079 --> 00:07:10,360
look like Grizzly tracks, and his video is like, you

140
00:07:10,399 --> 00:07:12,120
can find it on TikTok. It has popped up on

141
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,319
my feed without me looking into this. So he followed

142
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,319
these tracks right to the first victim and got it

143
00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:21,199
all on video. He didn't share the part of the

144
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,600
video where he finds a person lying in a pool

145
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,839
of blood for obvious reasons, and I doubt that that

146
00:07:25,959 --> 00:07:28,879
will ever come to light, which is probably for the best.

147
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope not, for the sake of the victims

148
00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:32,079
and their families.

149
00:07:32,279 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. So he came upon one of

150
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,279
the hikers, I don't know which brother it was lying

151
00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:39,959
in a pool of blood and he was able to

152
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,480
radio for help to get a helicopter to MedFlight the

153
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,720
victims to a hospital. One of them was listed to

154
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,839
be in serious condition, while the other was said to

155
00:07:47,879 --> 00:07:51,399
be in critical condition, and there are currently no updates

156
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,279
on how they are as of the day that we're

157
00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:57,000
recording this, which is May fourteenth. The area around the

158
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,360
attack is still subject to closures, so if you're planning

159
00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:02,519
a hike in that area in Yellowstone anytime soon, check

160
00:08:02,519 --> 00:08:05,240
out the park's website before you book that trip or

161
00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:08,720
go on that hike. The last attack in Yellowstone was

162
00:08:08,759 --> 00:08:11,600
September twenty twenty five when a hiker was injured, and

163
00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:13,680
then the last death in Yellowstone because of a bear

164
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,920
was in twenty fifteen. So obviously, like we don't know

165
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,759
if these boys are both still alive or whatnot. But

166
00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:23,519
when you consider that there are millions of people who

167
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,480
visit this park each year and they're only around like

168
00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:28,439
a thousand grizzlies, and then you know hundreds of thousands

169
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,840
of black bears. Attacks are still considered rare, especially fatal ones.

170
00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:35,080
So it's been over a decade since a bear has

171
00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:36,440
killed someone in Yellowstone.

172
00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:39,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just I'm impressed by Craig. I hope that

173
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,919
because he was there, he got to them in time

174
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,240
and was able to get help in time for those guys.

175
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know. I when I saw his video where

176
00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:50,480
he was like, oh, look grizzly tracks and followed them,

177
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,480
I was like, that wouldn't be me. I would see

178
00:08:52,519 --> 00:08:54,279
those tracks and be like, you know what, I'm going

179
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,000
to pick a different trail for now, and I would

180
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,600
have missed it. Yeah.

181
00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:00,919
Speaker 3: The fact that he found them, found the tracks, and

182
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,320
then had the thought to follow them and try to

183
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,879
record them, like obviously, I'm sure he thought he was

184
00:09:06,919 --> 00:09:09,519
just recording cool grizzly bear tracks on the ground, like

185
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,559
I doubt he thought he was recording this evidence of

186
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,600
an attack, you know. But I think that's pretty brave

187
00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:22,600
that he followed them and subsequently was able to find

188
00:09:22,639 --> 00:09:23,399
these victims.

189
00:09:23,919 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out Craig. Yeah, way to go, Craig. However,

190
00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:32,120
I'd be remiss to cover this attack and not mention

191
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,480
a death that occurred in Glacier National Park on literally

192
00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:39,159
the exact same day as the attack on these two brothers.

193
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,639
Thirty three year old Anthony Polio of Davy, Florida, was

194
00:09:42,639 --> 00:09:46,039
reported missing on Monday May fourth, but had told family

195
00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:48,399
that on Sunday May third, he'd planned to hike the

196
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,600
Mount Brown trail toward the mount Brownfire lookout. That Sunday,

197
00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:55,840
Anthony called his father, Arthur and left a voicemail saying, Dad,

198
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,759
I'm hiking up a mountain. It's wild out here. I

199
00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:01,720
love you, Dad, And that was the last message his

200
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,279
dad ever got from him, because on Monday, when investigators

201
00:10:06,279 --> 00:10:08,399
went to the trail to look for him, they found

202
00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:11,200
some of his belongings two point five miles from the trailhead,

203
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,120
so they focused their search in that surrounding area and

204
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,120
ended up finding Anthony's body fifty feet off the trail

205
00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:21,159
in a densely wooded area. Investigators said his death was

206
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,600
consistent with a fatal bear attack. This death marks the

207
00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:26,960
first death by a bear in Glacier National Park since

208
00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:30,320
nineteen ninety eight, when someone was killed in two Medicine Valley.

209
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,200
Details about this attack on Anthony are still being investigated,

210
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720
of course, but it's thought that he might have spooked

211
00:10:36,759 --> 00:10:39,360
the bear, so this isn't like necessarily a mother bear situation,

212
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,960
but we don't really know yet. And then the species

213
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,080
of bear has also not been confirmed, and similar to Yellowstone,

214
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,679
the last bear related injury in the park occurred last August,

215
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,279
so last tourist season essentially.

216
00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 3: Wow that's first of all, really really sad, but also

217
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,000
kind of incredible to me that there was that life

218
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:06,360
of a gap between this fatality and the previous one.

219
00:11:06,919 --> 00:11:10,759
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, Yellowstone, I mean, twenty fifteen feels really recent.

220
00:11:11,159 --> 00:11:13,960
I mean, anytime we talk about animal killing somebody like

221
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,720
it is crazy every single time. But yeah, twenty fifteen

222
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,559
doesn't feel like that long ago for that to happen

223
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,679
in Yellstone. I don't remember hearing about it either.

224
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

225
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also don't have exact numbers on how many

226
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,679
tourists visit Yellowstone versus Glacier each year, but I'm assuming

227
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,840
that Yellowstone sees way many more taurusts. So maybe that's

228
00:11:34,879 --> 00:11:37,960
why it's more frequent, or it happened more recently that

229
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,120
someone was killed by a bear there.

230
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure, but yeah, that would make sense.

231
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, on to the next one. So another one that

232
00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:49,320
occurred this year. This one happened in March. So on

233
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,480
March fourteenth, twenty twenty six, a mother black bear in

234
00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:57,919
California was euthanized after two aggressive incidents. So this bear

235
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,159
was living in Monrovia, California, which is I had never

236
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,360
heard of this place before, but it is a city

237
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,759
in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains and has

238
00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:08,519
a population of over thirty seven thousand people, so not

239
00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:11,639
a huge city by any means, especially by California standards.

240
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,120
The first incident with this bear happened in June twenty

241
00:12:15,159 --> 00:12:18,600
twenty five. An elderly man was sitting on his porch

242
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:23,080
when the bear approached and swiped at him, causing minor injuries,

243
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,759
and a nearby caretaker of this elderly man was able

244
00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:29,039
to scare the bear away, and the man fully recovered

245
00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:31,799
from his injuries. I don't have any other details on

246
00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:34,639
that encounter, like it just from what I've read, seems

247
00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,960
like the bear literally just walked up, hit him, and

248
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,799
he was then scared way.

249
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 3: That sounds really random, although in instances like this, I

250
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,919
always suspect that people are feeding bears, or if.

251
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 1: I could also make an assumption if it was an

252
00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:51,480
elderly man and maybe he's living in some community, like

253
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,240
there's got to be bird feeders everywhere.

254
00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 3: Oh, that's such a good point. Bird feeders and probably

255
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,000
also trash, yeah, like trash cans.

256
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So maybe that would be a reason that

257
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,559
the bear would just be comfortable walking up to a

258
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,840
human and hitting them.

259
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we don't know trying to get to that

260
00:13:06,039 --> 00:13:06,600
bird feeder.

261
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,879
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So the attack that literally put the nail

262
00:13:10,879 --> 00:13:12,960
on the coffin for this black bear occurred in March

263
00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:16,159
this year, when the bear approached a woman walking her

264
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,879
dog around nine to twenty am. The bear swiped at

265
00:13:19,919 --> 00:13:22,080
the woman and one of its claws caught the back

266
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,840
of her knee, and a neighbor who witnessed the encounter

267
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,279
said that the bear kept charging them, let the woman

268
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:30,639
and her dog despite the woman's screaming, and then at

269
00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:32,279
one point the dog ran off a little bit and

270
00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:35,519
the bear followed it. One of the neighbors came out

271
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:38,240
with an airhorn and was able to successfully scare off

272
00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:41,200
the bear. The woman was brought to a nearby hospital

273
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,080
via ambulance, but her injuries were considered minor and she

274
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,519
recovered fine. So Missumi was just like she literally got

275
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,200
a scratch on the back of her leg. In the

276
00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:52,000
days following the encounter, the bear and its cubs were

277
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:55,720
trapped by California Department of Fish a Wildlife. The city

278
00:13:55,759 --> 00:13:58,960
manager made a public statement saying, quote, the Monrovia City

279
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,320
Council requested in for the bear in her cubs to

280
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,279
be relocated into the Angelus National Forest, but the decision

281
00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:07,840
was never the cities to make. By the time we

282
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,720
were able to speak with state officials involved in the

283
00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:14,320
decision making, the decision to euthanize was already made. Apparently

284
00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:16,759
DNA was taken from the bear to confirm that she

285
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,480
was responsible for both incidents. So where to assume that

286
00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:23,759
the DNA that there was DNA taken from both attacks,

287
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,600
which I thought was interesting, and like I don't fully

288
00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:32,360
believe because the first encounter where she walked up and

289
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:34,879
swiped that guy, Like, what DNA would you have gathered

290
00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:36,039
from that? You know what I mean?

291
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 3: And also yeah, and also if that if that encounter

292
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,759
with the elderly man was the first encounter that this

293
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:48,559
particular bear had had with a person, I mean, unless

294
00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:51,759
there's some sort of policy that any bear attack or

295
00:14:51,799 --> 00:14:55,879
any animal attack requires collection of DNA for some reason,

296
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,399
like maybe that's a part of the procedure. I don't

297
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,759
believe that they would have collected DNA from that particular encounter.

298
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 1: I agree, And then like that they would have stored

299
00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:07,200
it in a way that they'd be like, oh yeah,

300
00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:08,919
let's look back at this one, you know what I.

301
00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 3: Mean, right, Like, would they really be assuming that the

302
00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:14,399
same bear would strike again?

303
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. It seems a little fishy to me.

304
00:15:17,679 --> 00:15:20,519
Speaker 1: I know, that kind of seem like the state's way

305
00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:22,120
of being like, oh, no, we did our due diligence, Like,

306
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,759
don't worry, we killed the right one, you know.

307
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,559
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's definitely the same bear.

308
00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's an exact same bear. So over three

309
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,320
thousand people in the city signed a petition to save

310
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,879
this bear, with one community member saying quote, fish and

311
00:15:34,879 --> 00:15:38,519
wild life is more reactive than proactive. People love these bears,

312
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:41,519
People love this community. Something needs to change between the

313
00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:45,399
way that everyone communicates here. So the mother bear was

314
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,759
euthanized and her two cubs were sent to a California

315
00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:52,279
animal welfare center where they're getting intensive care because they're

316
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,759
only two to three months old, and black bears aren't

317
00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:57,919
wean from their mother's milk until they're six to eight

318
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,480
months old, and they stay with their moms for around

319
00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:03,720
eighteen months to learn how to be a bear. So

320
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:06,000
they're hoping to release these cubs back into the wild

321
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,919
without the human approaching habits of their mother, which is

322
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:12,480
fair because she would have taught them that behavior. And

323
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:15,000
the cubs have been put into a habitat designed to

324
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,679
make their natural environment as much as they can, and

325
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:20,799
special efforts are being made to reduce their exposure to humans,

326
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,480
including that the staff will use bear masks, animal furs,

327
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,240
and sens to quote conceale their human identity while caring

328
00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:31,559
for the cubs, and the wildlife operations manager at the

329
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:34,799
organization said, quote, we don't want them to associate with

330
00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:37,200
humans in any way if they're going to have a

331
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:40,559
chance to survive in their natural habitat end quote. So

332
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:44,840
I would like to acknowledge the irony in that statement

333
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,279
and this situation because they took the cubs into human

334
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:49,519
care to get them to stop associated with humans.

335
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, I feel like they've now created a bigger

336
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,759
problem inadvertently by euthanizing the mother and then creating a

337
00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:59,000
situation where two cubs now have to be raised in

338
00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:02,279
captivity with ultimately the goal of releasing them. But what

339
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,519
if those cubs end up being unreleasable. Yeah, so now

340
00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:09,279
they have two more bears that might potentially be unable

341
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,160
to be released and have to be captain captivity somewhere

342
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,559
or I don't know, I don't know what else you

343
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,079
do in that situation. Do you just euthanize them too?

344
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,559
Speaker 1: Also, not to mention the amount of money it takes

345
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,920
to raise two bears, especially if they still need milk, Right,

346
00:17:24,039 --> 00:17:28,480
that's so like the staffing for that is so expensive. Yeah.

347
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:31,920
I struggle with this because as someone who you know,

348
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,000
has been a zookeeper for the past year and worked

349
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,279
with bears, part of me is like, why couldn't you

350
00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:39,440
just take the mom also and put her there, like,

351
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:42,680
let her raise them in captivity and then at least

352
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,039
like you're taking care of her more than you're taking

353
00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:46,599
care of the two cubs. Then she could take care

354
00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:49,319
of the cubs and then she stays in the zoo,

355
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,200
but you release the cubs, right, because she is aggressive

356
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,880
towards humans. But that's not to say that she couldn't

357
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,839
be fine in a zoo. Like I've worked with two

358
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,240
mountainlins who wanted to eat me all the time, So

359
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,559
that's not really a barrier to being at a zoo.

360
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,400
Is liking people.

361
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And of course it's sort of tricky because of

362
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:09,720
course we don't want this bear to have been able

363
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:14,920
to further injure or kill a person. Like the conflict

364
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,359
with people is always a big concern, but when the

365
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,559
two incidents that have occurred are kind of somewhat minor,

366
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:24,720
I feel like it could have been handled a little

367
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,960
bit differently.

368
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 2: Which, of course I don't know.

369
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 3: It's a difficult thing because I think in some instances

370
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:33,440
it feels like the state waits too long to address

371
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,839
some of these problems, Like it feels like they wait

372
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,440
until somebody is killed or until someone is severely injured

373
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,920
by an animal to take action. And so I think

374
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,319
that's not necessarily the right way to go about it either,

375
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,799
because we don't want people to be getting injured and

376
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,039
killed by animals. There should be more being done to

377
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,079
mitigate human wildlife conflict in general. But I feel like

378
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,119
in this situation, it was definitely like an overreaction.

379
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also think it speaks volumes. So this bear,

380
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,480
you know, was hering this woman and her dog and

381
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:03,480
it did scratch her, Like I'm not going to discount

382
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,480
that that counts, as you know, attacking a person is

383
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,559
swiping at them. But a neighbor was able to scare

384
00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:13,000
the bear off with an air horn so why couldn't

385
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,759
we start by, I don't know, going around the community

386
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:17,839
and being like, hey, here's how to be safe around bears.

387
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,279
But it also sounds like a lot of them already

388
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,400
kind of knew how. I'd be curious to know more

389
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,319
from the people in the community, because it does seem like,

390
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,359
generally from what I've seen online, they were pro bear

391
00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:28,720
and didn't want her to be euthanized, and she was

392
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:30,720
kind of like a pillar of their community.

393
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 3: So I don't know, And this doesn't sound like a

394
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,519
bear that was really habituated to people, Like, it doesn't

395
00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:37,400
sound like it was a bear who was getting into

396
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,480
trash cans, ripping down bird feeders, like frequently in and

397
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,400
out of people's backyards, going up on porches. I feel

398
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,799
like if it was a situation like that, the community

399
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,599
would probably have more to say about it, and there

400
00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:51,880
would be more recorded instances, even if they were anecdotal,

401
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,000
amongst the neighbors in the community, of that particular bear

402
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,160
being sighted or being interacting with other people.

403
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I saw, people were saying like, yeah,

404
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,759
we knew this bear. She would just like hang out

405
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:06,920
and sit under the tree for hours in the heat

406
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,400
of the day and just hang out like people liked

407
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,160
seeing her generally, I think, but I don't know. It's

408
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,039
so tough when it's such a large animal too, and

409
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:17,720
you're in fucking California where there's billions of people. So

410
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,759
I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision.

411
00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, well, and I feel like it's one of

412
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,400
those things where whatever you do is wrong because if

413
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,599
you don't euthanize the bear and then she goes on

414
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,720
to actually kill someone, now there's someone has.

415
00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 2: Died because of the bear.

416
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 3: But if you euthanize the bear before anything that bad happens,

417
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,920
then people are like, but she hasn't done anything that bad.

418
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 2: Why would you euthanize her?

419
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 3: You know?

420
00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:40,759
Speaker 1: And isn't it so interesting that we just covered two

421
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,200
stories of well, I guess the first story of the

422
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,920
grizzly mother attacking the two boys, and the Montana State

423
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
whatever wildlife agency said that they weren't going to investigate

424
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:53,720
the bear because it was normal behavior. But in this circumstance,

425
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:56,119
it's like she swiped her two people dead and once

426
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,240
again different circumstances. But I don't know, it just feels

427
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:00,319
like there's no nu it's.

428
00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:04,799
Speaker 3: Wildly different policy. It feels like yeah, yeah.

429
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: So anyways, I wanted to shift from bears because there's

430
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,960
so many bear stories of like bear brothers defending cubs

431
00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:15,519
or being associated with attacks on people. So we're gonna

432
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:19,880
leave bears there and we're gonna shift to Africa. So

433
00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:24,200
another recent attack, this occurred April seventeenth of this year,

434
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,359
twenty twenty six. Seventy five year old Ernie Dosio from

435
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,839
California went to Gobo. Gabo spelled Gabo n I did

436
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:36,480
not realize it was pronounced Gabo Gobo got bo.

437
00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 2: This is reminding me of the infamous Belarus.

438
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Nick and I were literally just talking

439
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,960
about that, and I was like, you know, I maybe

440
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,079
a lot of things. I've never claimed to be good

441
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,880
with geography, Okay, I just neither do my best.

442
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,799
Speaker 3: I think I would have done the exact same thing.

443
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,839
Just in your defense, I would have said I would

444
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,079
have pronounced it the same way, So.

445
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,759
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Anyways, Gobo is one of the

446
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,079
most most densely forested countries in the world, and is

447
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,880
also considered one of the wealthiest developing countries in Africa

448
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,480
in terms of per capita income. Although of course, large

449
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,799
parts of the population are still very impoverished. Gabo also

450
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,480
contains a lot of very important habitat for the critically

451
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:20,119
endangered African forest elephant, with upwards of fifty thousand elephants

452
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,319
living there. So the Sky Ernie went to Gabo to

453
00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:27,200
trophy hunt, an activity he loved and was well known

454
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,720
for being heavily involved in the community.

455
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: I already have negative opinions about.

456
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: This, yep, that I really anticipated that from everyone listening,

457
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,359
to be honest. So he was accompanied on this trip

458
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,319
by two other professional hunters who were kind of acting

459
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:45,440
as his guide, and they were hunting yellowback dikers. So

460
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,400
they're an antelope found in central and western Africa, and

461
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,799
they're relatively widespread, considered a species of Least Concern by

462
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:54,519
the IUCN, so they're not by any means like endangered

463
00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:57,279
or anything like that. So Ernie and the other hunters

464
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,279
were walking in the forest in search of the dikers

465
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:02,119
when they accident stumbled upon a small herd of African

466
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,079
forest elephants consisting of females and their calves. The herd

467
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,480
was initially around one hundred and fifty yards away and

468
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,240
charged the hunting party, which the three men backed off,

469
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:16,759
but the elephants charged again, getting as close as twenty

470
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:19,920
five yards, with one elephant attacking another member of the

471
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,079
hunting party, which resulted in serious injuries to that man

472
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,759
and the man was separated from his rifle. Ernie himself

473
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,759
only had a shotgun intended for smaller game. The other

474
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,599
uninjured hunter grabbed Ernie and tried to bring him behind

475
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,200
a tree for safety, but one of the elephants was

476
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:40,880
faster and fatally goreed Ernie with a tusk. As you

477
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,160
can imagine, because he died overseas from where he lived

478
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200
in California, it took some time to get his remains back,

479
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:49,440
but it also took some time to figure out what

480
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:53,079
exactly happened here, because his family has since spoken out

481
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,200
that apparently Ernie's lawyers were contacted before his family was contacted,

482
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,599
and then the lawyers weren't being very honest or clear

483
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,839
about what had happened to Ernie. So also for contacts,

484
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,720
Ernie was a millionaire. He owned like some vineyard operation

485
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,119
in California, so he was a very wealthy person. So

486
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:16,000
maybe that's why his lawyers were contacted first. Because there

487
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,079
was like a lot of money to sort out. Initially,

488
00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:19,039
I'm not really sure.

489
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:22,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe like the liability of the circumstance of

490
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,000
being out on a hunt like that with supposedly with

491
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,000
guides who were maybe supposed to be keeping him safe

492
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,000
and advising him, and then the fact that he died

493
00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:36,279
on that trip. Maybe the lawyers had I don't know,

494
00:24:36,519 --> 00:24:38,839
problems with just how that all went down.

495
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe so. Ernie's ex wife hasn't spoken out and

496
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,599
said that initially they heard that a buffalo killed him,

497
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,480
but then they heard it was an elephant, and she

498
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,039
also the ex wife claimed that the other hunter that

499
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:57,559
got injured died, but then the safari company that Ernie

500
00:24:57,599 --> 00:25:00,759
went through for this forty thousand dollars hunt, called Collect Africa,

501
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,039
said that the other hunter survived. So still kind of

502
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,400
unclear exactly how it all went down, but we know

503
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,640
for sure that the elephant killed Ernie. In the wake

504
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,000
of his death, as you can probably imagine, there has

505
00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:15,839
been some criticism online about this millionaire going to Africa

506
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,799
to hunt big game, which was especially fueled by a

507
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:22,119
picture being released of his trophy room at home, which

508
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,960
included head mounts of elephants, rhino, lions, buffalo, crocodiles, zebra

509
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,400
and leopards. Ernie's son Jeff said the discourse online quote

510
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:35,559
hasn't been fun at all and he doesn't know how

511
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:38,480
this picture of the trophy room got leaked. And Ernie's

512
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,039
ex wife said quote, he was a big time hunter

513
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,119
and it shouldn't have happened. And a close friend of

514
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,039
Ernie also said his quote hunts were strictly licensed and

515
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:52,440
above board and were registered as conservation in culling animal numbers,

516
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:55,279
also saying that Ernie went out doing what he loved

517
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,559
and that he knew the risks, especially as a hunter

518
00:25:57,599 --> 00:25:59,680
who had been to Africa multiple times.

519
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: I feel like that last part is, at least to me,

520
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:05,400
the most relevant thing is that even if you're doing

521
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,160
everything legally, of course, anytime you go into the African bush,

522
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,000
you're at risk. And I think as long as he

523
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:15,440
knew the risk of what he was doing, then it's

524
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,079
not like he can blame anybody in particular. It's not

525
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,839
like he can blame the Safari Company or anything like. Yeah,

526
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,200
I think if you're a person who's going to go hunting,

527
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:26,480
especially doing big game or trophy hunting in a place

528
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,559
like Africa, then you know how dangerous the environment is,

529
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,279
and you know how quickly things can go south and

530
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:34,640
you can die.

531
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not even just Africa alone, but the fact

532
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:42,160
that Gabo is so densely forested and the dikers lived

533
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,279
in the forest, so you have to know that you

534
00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:48,000
could pop up on literally anything at any point. And

535
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:49,799
I feel like, of all the things for you to

536
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000
run into in the forest there, elephants, especially elephants with

537
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,079
their babies, would be the absolute worst case scenario.

538
00:26:57,079 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent.

539
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: And I feel like elephants are generally regarded as I

540
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,759
don't know, maybe the most or at least some of

541
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:09,680
the most dangerous animals in Africa. Yeah, I mean maybe

542
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,519
also like hippos and other things like that. But I'm

543
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:18,000
sure anybody who's especially someone like that who's regularly going

544
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:21,200
on these hunts, they're going to know how dangerous elephants are.

545
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So funny you say that, because stories of attacks

546
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,039
from female elephants with calves seem to pop up across

547
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:30,279
the continent of Africa multiple times a year. So we

548
00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:32,400
have another one that happened back in July of twenty

549
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,359
twenty five. Sixty eight year old Janet Taylor Easton from

550
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,920
the United Kingdom and potentially her second cousin unclear, sixty

551
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,079
seven year old Alison Taylor from New Zealand, were up

552
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,640
around six am on a walking safari in the South

553
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Luanga National Park in Zambia. The group encountered a female

554
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,599
African elephant with her calf, and one of the people

555
00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:58,720
in the group yelled, elephant. I will say, I don't

556
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:01,039
know the protocol. I've never bet on a walking safari

557
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,920
in Africa. I don't know if you're supposed to be

558
00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:06,920
quiet or if yelling is I don't know who.

559
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

560
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a tough call, especially because even if you

561
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,079
know the protocol, I would probably also freak out and

562
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,400
yell something even if I knew I wasn't supposed to.

563
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: Oh, one hundred percent, yeah I'm not if I'm sorry.

564
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,680
If I'm walking in Africa for the first time on

565
00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:24,079
foot and I see a friggin elephant, I'm not gonna

566
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,000
be chill for sure.

567
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: Right, You're gonna be like, oh my god, there's an elephant.

568
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So the group turned to look at the elephant,

569
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,279
and the mother elephant was already charging at that point,

570
00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:40,279
so Alison had an existing problem with one of her

571
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,359
legs and was too like couldn't get away fast enough,

572
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,039
and she was almost immediately trampled by the elephant, with Janet,

573
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:52,720
her cousin slash best friend, being trampled very quickly after

574
00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:57,599
the guides at the Safari shot at the elephant injuring her,

575
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,240
which ultimately led to her retreating, but unfortunately Alison and

576
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:06,119
Janet were pretty much immediately killed at the scene. I

577
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:08,799
also don't have any follow up on this elephant, which

578
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:11,000
I apologize. It's for some reason very hard for me

579
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:13,640
to get information on stories that occur in other places

580
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,680
in the world other than America. But I do know

581
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:20,119
that Allison's family and friends remember her for being a

582
00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:23,440
pillar of their community, known for being an avid volunteer,

583
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,079
with one friend saying quote, I think of her as

584
00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:28,160
an inspiration that we can all do more and be

585
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:32,920
more kind in this world. And Janet, lovingly known as Janis,

586
00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:36,400
was a retired chemistry teacher beloved by her community, with

587
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:40,319
one person saying quote, Jannis had a profound impact on

588
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,119
generations of pupils and students in the local community, as

589
00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:46,400
well as countless colleagues who admired her skill, tenacity, and

590
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,119
determination to ensure all young people had the opportunity to succeed.

591
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:54,039
The pair had been camping in Zambia for four days,

592
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:56,680
and this walking safari was them traveling to their next camp,

593
00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:58,920
but this trip to Zambia was one of many trips

594
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,599
that the two had taken. Also recently been to Canada

595
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,519
to travel and you know, experience the outdoors, so they

596
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,119
were not like new to traveling by any means. But

597
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680
it's just I think it was just like an unfortunate

598
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,279
run in and then they, for some reason, both of

599
00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:14,920
them happened to be the victims.

600
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,279
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's extremely sad. And what are the odds

601
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:20,799
that it was the two of them as the victims?

602
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:21,039
Speaker 1: Yeah?

603
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:21,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

604
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:24,279
Speaker 1: You know one thing about get It Alive that I

605
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:28,039
forgot there's no good way to transition between stories like

606
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,079
you kuds just are like, well, these people died anyways.

607
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: Right, Especially like when you're talking about such like heavy

608
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,920
topics like talking about people being trampled by elephants and

609
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,839
being killed. That's a tough thing to just kind of

610
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:43,039
be like well anyway.

611
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:49,839
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, yep, So anyways, next door, I'm so sorry.

612
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:54,480
I have no better transition than that, So let's go

613
00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:58,000
back to twenty twenty four. Also, I'm finding like a

614
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000
lot of these are happening around the same time because

615
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,559
this story occurred on Sunday May nineteenth and twenty twenty four,

616
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:04,960
so a lot of springtime stories.

617
00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I feel like, Okay, maybe this

618
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:09,519
is just a hypothesis, but I feel like there must

619
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:13,279
be certain times of the year when the attacks are

620
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:17,000
more likely to happen, or maybe when the sort of

621
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:19,359
exposure to people is higher.

622
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: That's so funny you say that, because I'm going to

623
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,680
talk about that at the end of this story.

624
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: Because that is very relevant. Yeah.

625
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: Sunday May nineteenth, twenty twenty four, seventy year old wildlfe

626
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,480
photographer Dale Corman was on his property in Homer, Alaska,

627
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:38,440
and stubled upon a moose giving birth to two calves.

628
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,440
Dale was a carpenter by trade, but outside of work

629
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,880
was an avid photographer, birdwatcher, and nature guide, so he

630
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:47,599
was no stranger at all to Alaska's woods. When he

631
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,920
was working on the side as a professional wildlife guide,

632
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,680
most of his trips were centered around grizzlies, but obviously

633
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,279
he loved all wildlife and sometimes taught birding by ear

634
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:58,960
courses in town, so he really knew what he was

635
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,440
doing and he was really a pill of the wild

636
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,319
life community. He snapped some pictures of the moose giving birth,

637
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,039
then went back to his house to call up a

638
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,559
friend so they could look at the moose together. The

639
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:10,440
friend got there, and then the two went out in

640
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,079
search of the moose in the area that Dale had

641
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:15,000
originally seen the mother giving birth, but the vegetation was

642
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,519
really thick, and Dale had remarked to his son earlier

643
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:19,599
in the season that the vegetation was so thick that

644
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,599
year that it could have been easy to accidentally spook

645
00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:25,720
an animal, which is very odd foreshadowing on Dale's part,

646
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:29,680
because this is exactly what happened, because the moose saw

647
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,359
them first and came charging at them out of the bushes.

648
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Both Dale and his friend turned to run, but when

649
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,839
the friend looked back, the moose was standing over in

650
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,880
unresponsive Dale. The friend ran back home to get help

651
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,079
and contacted Alaska State troopers around eleven fifty am. When

652
00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:49,160
the troopers arrived at the scene, they immediately pronounced Dale

653
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:51,440
dead and the moose and her calves had left the

654
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,039
area because the attack was it witnessed, Investigators were unclear

655
00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:58,640
how the moose had actually killed Dale, which to me

656
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,079
doesn't matter. We know that the moose killed him either way,

657
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,720
but Dale's family insisted that the moose not be killed because,

658
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,680
first of all, it's not what Dale would have wanted,

659
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,000
and he died doing what he loved, for sure. But second,

660
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:13,759
she was also just protecting her newborn calves, which is

661
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:18,880
completely normal moose behavior. There are around two hundred thousand

662
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,559
moose in Alaska, and they're the largest member of the

663
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:25,599
deer family, with females weighing upwards of eight hundred pounds.

664
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,599
So to your point, Hannah, spring is an especially dangerous

665
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:32,799
time to be around female moose because they're very protective

666
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:35,480
of they're young, as we just learned, and they give

667
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,240
birth mid May to mid June in Alaska, so primetime

668
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,480
to stumble upon an angry mother moose. Yeah.

669
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 3: And like Dale had even said himself, if it was

670
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,359
really easy to spook them at that time of year

671
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,160
as well, then that's an extra danger. Yeah.

672
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: Also funny that he had literally said to his son, like, yeah,

673
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,359
the vegetation's so thick this year, could be really easy

674
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,359
to spook an animal and then he did exactly that,

675
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,720
which obviously not his fault.

676
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, but especially I feel like, especially.

677
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:08,079
Speaker 3: That particular time of year, regardless of the year, that's

678
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:11,320
when vegetation starts to grow up and get really thick

679
00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:13,559
and difficult to see through.

680
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,119
Speaker 1: Well, and it makes sense why they would give birth

681
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,880
when vegetation is coming up and being more thick, so

682
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,440
that way their babies don't get discovered by grizzlies or

683
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:24,239
other things that are trying to eat their babies. Right,

684
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,559
So very tough time. Yeah, I mean, as someone who

685
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:29,440
has I've told the story in the podcast before, but

686
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:33,599
I've encountered I've been on foot right next to a

687
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,639
mother moose and her baby, but it was October and

688
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:41,119
she was relatively chill about just like continuing on and

689
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,760
not trying to kill me, thankfully, But I did just

690
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,440
want to touch on if you do find yourself near

691
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:48,599
a moose, and this goes for any moose, it doesn't

692
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:50,960
have to just be a mother, but look for signs

693
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,280
of stress or agitation, such as raised hackles, which I

694
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,119
promise you will be very obvious if you see them,

695
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,880
ears pinned back, and if the moose is licking their

696
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,360
that's also a sign that they're agitated or unhappy. If

697
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,239
a moose does charge, you, try to get behind something

698
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,840
like a tree or some other solid object, similar to

699
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,440
what we were talking about with Ernie and the elephant.

700
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,079
Just like put something between you, guys, so that you

701
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:17,760
can start to get yourself away. Which also, if you're

702
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,840
out in the woods in a place where there are moose,

703
00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:22,559
just have that in the back of your mind. Because

704
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,440
I don't know about you, Hannah, but anytime I'm recreating

705
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,280
here in New England, I'm not worried. I mean, the thing,

706
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,280
I'm most worried about humans, but I'm not worried about

707
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,920
bears or coyote or anything like that. I'm, honest to God,

708
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:37,119
more worried about running into a moose than anything else here.

709
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,199
So yeah, just kind of having the back of your mind, like, Okay,

710
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,239
if I was to encounter this animal in the habitat

711
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,760
that I'm currently in, what would be my game plan? Well?

712
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: And is this a kind of situation where it's better

713
00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:52,559
to be making noise when you're walking through the woods

714
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,599
so as not to startle a moose.

715
00:35:56,119 --> 00:35:59,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've gosh been in the woods my

716
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,159
whole life and encountered a moose one time. It's because

717
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:07,000
we went looking for the moose, so there's that. Otherwise

718
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,440
I've never encountered them on foot. And I usually do

719
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,119
make a lot of noise as I'm walking around. I'll

720
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:14,599
play music out loud or whatever, or I'll just be

721
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:17,760
talking to somebody. So yeah, I think that's usually your

722
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,400
best bet, which I feel like is honestly the advice

723
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,199
on this podcast in ninety percent of the time is

724
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,199
just walk around and make noise and make yourself known

725
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:27,639
so animals have a chance to get away from you.

726
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:30,599
Speaker 3: Try not to startle anything, try not to walk up

727
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,079
on anything suddenly.

728
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and if you can go out with a friend,

729
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:38,280
even better to not be alone. So all right, speaking

730
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,199
of New England, We're gonna end this episode in New England,

731
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:44,159
and this is going to be about a species I

732
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:46,719
don't think we've ever covered, and if we have covered

733
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,639
this species before, it has been this exact same type

734
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:54,519
of story. We're talking about the northern gosshawk. Ooo. Have

735
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:55,679
you ever seen one in the wild.

736
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: I actually don't think I have.

737
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: Wait, we saw one together in our class in college.

738
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,639
Speaker 2: Oh I don't remember.

739
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: It was like so high up in the sky that

740
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:08,599
you could not tell it was a goshawk until our

741
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:10,400
teacher said that it was a gosshawk. Hm.

742
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 2: That's probably why I don't remember.

743
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, but uh, otherwise I have never ever seen one.

744
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:19,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, that must have been the only time then, yeah.

745
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. I would say that northern goshawks are pretty well

746
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,719
known in the birding community for being particularly aggressive during

747
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,280
the nesting season. So in June twenty twenty five, a

748
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,440
walking trail at the Bond Brook Recreation Area in Augusta, Maine,

749
00:37:36,679 --> 00:37:40,480
was closed when a pair of northern goshawks kept attacking

750
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:43,400
people that would come near their nest. So goshawks are

751
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,559
relatively rare because they're very sensitive to human disturbance, which

752
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:48,639
is probably why we don't see them more often. But

753
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,480
when they're nesting, people often know about it because they

754
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,079
defend their nests so fiercely and just to go over

755
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:56,280
goshawks if you don't really know what they are, they're

756
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,559
the largest exhibiter. And if you've listened to this podcast before,

757
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:01,800
you have already heard me talk about excipretors, but if

758
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360
you forget it is a type of hawk that live

759
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,519
and hunt within forests, so Unlike beauty os, which is

760
00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:09,760
like the family of hawks that red tailed hawks are in,

761
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,079
which tend to hunt more out in the open. Northern

762
00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:16,960
goshawks are not endangered and actually occur on many different continents,

763
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,679
so we're not dealing with like an endangered nesting bird

764
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,599
here necessarily, just a pretty aggressive one. So that this

765
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,480
was the case in twenty twenty five and two trails

766
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:29,239
ended up being closed when a runner was struck in

767
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,840
the head by one of these hawks, to the point

768
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,119
that they had to go to the hospital for treatment. Ouch. Yeah,

769
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,960
so goshawks are only around two pounds, you'd be surprised.

770
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,599
And by you, I don't mean you, Hannah, but like

771
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,920
in general, how little birds tend to weigh for what

772
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,440
they look like. Yeah, redtails max out like three pounds

773
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,559
would be a pretty fat redtail, I would say. But

774
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:54,360
they can still do so much damage if you think

775
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,679
about their talons and their curved beaks, which are meant

776
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,039
for pulling apart flesh. So when that hits you in

777
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,000
the head pretty hard, it's not great. They are powerful,

778
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,119
and so I have seen varying reports on how fast

779
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:09,920
gosshawks can fly. It's been a range of like thirty

780
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,559
to sixty miles per hour. But you figure they're meant like,

781
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:17,039
their whole thing is flying really quickly through the woods.

782
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,760
So I can imagine if they hit you in the

783
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,239
head hard enough in the right spot, they could probably

784
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:21,760
knock you out.

785
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,639
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, especially if you're saying thirty to sixty miles

786
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:28,679
per hour. Yeah, even something traveling thirty miles per hour

787
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,800
is enough to like knock you out.

788
00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:33,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I used to volunteer at a

789
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:36,880
place that had a great horned owl, so generally considered

790
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,880
one of the strongest birds of prey, but not particularly

791
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,760
fast flying or anything like that. She would on the

792
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,719
regular knock people out by hitting them in the head. So,

793
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:51,519
although they're just birds, still pretty serious. Like, yeah, even

794
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:54,000
though they're only two pounds, that's still a big bird.

795
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:56,679
Like when a bird is flying at you, that's pretty big.

796
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,159
Speaker 3: Well, And I feel like two pounds of bird is

797
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,800
different than two pounds of a different animal, because exactly

798
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,559
like you're saying, they have these talents. They have the

799
00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:09,559
curved beak, they're specifically designed for flying fast through forests,

800
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:13,039
for attacking and ripping apart their prey. Two pounds of

801
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:14,920
bird is still a lot of bird.

802
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, can you imagine, so peregrine falcons, fastest

803
00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:20,440
animal on the planet, can dive bomb at like two

804
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:23,360
hundred something miles per hour. That would kill you.

805
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,039
Speaker 2: If you in the head, it would Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah,

806
00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:28,679
We're all.

807
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: Lucky that they choose to not kill us. So this

808
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:35,079
runner was able to fully recover. And you know, luckily

809
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,239
for everyone involved, the goshawks only nest for a few

810
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,280
weeks until their baby's fledge and then they move on,

811
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,840
and there are plenty of other trails in this area

812
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,760
that people were able to recreate on, so it's not

813
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,719
like this ruined the recreation experience for these people for

814
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,360
a very long time. Northern goshawks do tend to return

815
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,519
to the same nesting area each year, although they may

816
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:57,239
not use the exact same nest, So this was the

817
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,519
second time in three years that trails at this recreation

818
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:02,679
area had to be closed down because of these goshawks

819
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,039
attacking people. So even though they don't use the same

820
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,199
nest per year, they in the same area tend to

821
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,840
make like two to eight different nests and they alternate

822
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,599
between them each year, which can help produce parasite and

823
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:17,000
disease risk, which I think is some great parenting.

824
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that really is.

825
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, very smart on their part. And that's all I've

826
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,760
got for mother slash parent animals attacking people. Apparently dads

827
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,920
were involved in this too, daddy goshawk.

828
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were also dads there.

829
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: It is funny to think of all these stories that

830
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,360
I was able. I mean, think of all these stories

831
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,039
within the past like two years, I have literally never

832
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:46,760
seen a story that was a father animal attacking people, yeah,

833
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,440
in defensive cubs or some other thing. Like I'm thinking

834
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:51,960
lies are like the main one where like the father

835
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:54,920
is involved. But I can't think of a single story

836
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,719
of a male line attacking a human being to protect

837
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:58,960
a baby line.

838
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: Right, Like, I feel like you hear stories of father

839
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:07,199
animals attacking or protecting their women kind of like, yeah,

840
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,039
protecting their mate or if they are the leader of

841
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,880
a herd or something. You hear about that, but you

842
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,760
don't hear about fathers protecting young the same way that

843
00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:19,599
mothers protect their young.

844
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, how often are mother animals

845
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,320
protecting their young against male other animals? Like? How often

846
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,199
are female grizzlies attacking male grizzlies? You know there's something

847
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,000
to be said there, and I don't know what it is,

848
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,440
but there's something there.

849
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: Well, because okay, maybe this is wild, but aren't there

850
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,440
a lot of species of animals where the males will

851
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:45,480
purposefully try to kill the babies of other males. So

852
00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:49,320
that yeah, yeah, like so they're purposely going after the

853
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,079
offspring of other animals of their same species.

854
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,559
Speaker 1: I feel like lions are a prime example of that.

855
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:57,159
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, right, that might be what I was thinking of.

856
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also just want to shout out I had

857
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,760
no other place in the podcast to put this, but

858
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,360
in honor of Mother's Day, I would just like to

859
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,719
shout out one of the most brutal hardcore moms out there,

860
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,159
and that's the spotted hyena giving birth through a pseudo penis. Yeah,

861
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,199
like they're really doing the most.

862
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,639
Speaker 3: Honestly, everything about spotted hyenas is so metal.

863
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are so badass.

864
00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:26,559
Speaker 3: And honestly kind of horrifying the extremes that their bodies

865
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:29,440
go through. I don't know, They're just a really crazy

866
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:30,440
badass species.

867
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also should have noted, like, shout out to

868
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,960
elephants being pregnant for two years. I also a baby,

869
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,000
really hard if I was pregnant for two years. We're

870
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:42,360
pregnant for like nine to ten months, and it's tough

871
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:43,960
out here, so I can't imagine.

872
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like, I worked on that for two years

873
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,480
and you're gonna try to kill it?

874
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: No way?

875
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's a long time to be pregnant. Also,

876
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:54,719
aren't baby elephants like hundreds of pounds when they're born.

877
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that'll tear you up.

878
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's props to mother elephants everywhere.

879
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, next Mother's Day, just think of

880
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,920
all the animal moms out there that are really just

881
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,039
going through horrific bodily things to just try to bring

882
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:12,760
more little baby animals out into the world than the

883
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,400
shit that they have to put up with when the

884
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:19,119
babies are here. I love watching videos of like bears,

885
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:20,960
for example. I see a lot of black bear ones

886
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:23,079
where like their babies are trying to cross the road

887
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,440
and they're just trying to grab like each individual baby

888
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,880
and bring them back, and I'm like, I I can't

889
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,480
do it, you know. So Gus my cat who was

890
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:33,000
laying on my lap, who I found in your yard, Hannah,

891
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:36,119
he was one of three and having to take care

892
00:44:36,159 --> 00:44:38,920
of three three week old kittens. I was like, I

893
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:42,599
literally I can't. I don't know how mom cats do this.

894
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,000
Oh my, I don't know how any animal mother does

895
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:47,679
like manages any of their babies. I have so much

896
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:49,800
respect for them. I couldn't do it, honestly.

897
00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: Watching mother cats or dogs, or honestly any any species

898
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:59,119
that has like litters of babies, watching them feed their babies,

899
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:01,920
like watching all of them babies nursing at once, fills

900
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,159
me with like just I don't know, dread pain. Yeah,

901
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:10,360
I'm like, yeah, you poor thing, that is so tough, Like.

902
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: I could never. I could never.

903
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I feel like, and I've been guilty of

904
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:17,199
it on this podcast, calling black bears like lazy moms

905
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,719
and compared to you know, grizzly bears. I just feel

906
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,960
like we should give animal moms more grace. They're going

907
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,760
through a lot out there. They don't, they really are.

908
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,000
They're really struggling. And I can't imagine having once, like

909
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:32,480
you said, a litter, even having twins. That's a litter.

910
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,199
To me, I'm having one baby and I'm already stressed

911
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,800
the fuck out about it, So I can't imagine.

912
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, like imagine being a cat mom and having to

913
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,679
nurse like five babies at once all the time.

914
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: Hannah. There was one time with Gus and his siblings

915
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,239
where I woke up and I had slept for three hours,

916
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,079
and that was one extra hour then I should have

917
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:54,360
slept because they needed to eat every two hours, which

918
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,719
is insane. There was three of them, and I woke

919
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,679
up to like the craziest scene. I was keeping them

920
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:04,920
in like this big tupperware containers. Like tupperware makes it

921
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,960
sound tiny, but it was like this big plastic bin

922
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,480
that had blankets and stuff. Gus had escaped somehow, which

923
00:46:11,519 --> 00:46:14,000
I literally don't know how is physically possible. One of

924
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,440
his siblings was like stuck on top of a blanket

925
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,039
that was on top of the container, and the other

926
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,519
one was like still inside but covered in poop. There

927
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:24,519
was poop everywhere. I was like, you're like, what happened here?

928
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:25,800
It was like a.

929
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: Blowout, but like all over their Boh my god.

930
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: And I was like I can't. I don't know how

931
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
cats and they do it on their own mm hmm.

932
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:37,000
And I needed like a whole house full of people

933
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,239
to be like, we need to bathe and feed these

934
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,199
babies and put them back to sleep, and by the

935
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,440
time that we were done, they're gonna be up again

936
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:44,480
to do it all over again.

937
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,119
Speaker 2: Yep, so so much work, Oh my god.

938
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Shout out moms.

939
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out to moms everywhere for doing so much

940
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,159
work all the time.

941
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you want more of that, not the

942
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,960
animal type part, the mom part, check us out on

943
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:04,719
Up All Night. And I apologize if that was rusty.

944
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,320
It's been a year since I've had to do this

945
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,480
kind of podcast, so maybe the next one I'll have

946
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:16,119
my shit together more and not transition by going well anyways,

947
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:17,599
Oh my.

948
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,199
Speaker 3: God, I think you did great, especially like a whole

949
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,800
year off and you're getting back into it.

950
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,119
Speaker 1: You did great trying. Thank you so much. You know,

951
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:26,559
people say like, oh, it's just a podcus so amateur.

952
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,239
You're just talking talking to a third person that is

953
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,280
like not present, but is also like a crowd of people.

954
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,639
It's not easy all the time. It's public speaker.

955
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:40,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's actually way harder than people think. And you

956
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:43,719
are really good at it and really practiced and polished.

957
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,679
And I am so painfully aware of like how much

958
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,880
I have to learn and how inexperienced I am like people,

959
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,000
This is not easy, and Ashley's really good at it.

960
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 1: Thanks. I will say, you know, for anyone out there

961
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,840
who wants to start a podcast, just do it. It

962
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,360
actually makes you better at public speaking. Like a few

963
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,280
months ago when I spoke in front of our Senate

964
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,119
on a bill about wildlife, I was so comfortable, just

965
00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:11,360
like riffing off the cuff. And I think it's because

966
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,400
I've done this podcast for years and it just felt

967
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,400
even though it was like a crowd, for sure, physical

968
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,239
people in front of me instead of just an audience

969
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,079
that is omnipresent as you podcast. I don't know, it's

970
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:22,760
a good skill to have.

971
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:26,079
Speaker 3: Definitely, I feel like since we've been doing Up all Night,

972
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,360
it's helped me, even just in my everyday life, be

973
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,280
more aware of what I sound like when I'm speaking

974
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,159
and how I'm articulating my thoughts.

975
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: The filler words are so real.

976
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I know, oh man, realize it. I'm so

977
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,559
sorry to everyone who has to listen to me say

978
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,559
and like a million times, both on this podcast and

979
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:46,119
Up all Night.

980
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yep, And you're gonna get more of that in

981
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:53,079
two weeks when Hann and I are back for another episode.

982
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:55,360
Not about moms, but about another thing that we both

983
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,280
have experience in. And I'll leave it at that.

984
00:48:57,599 --> 00:49:03,559
Speaker 2: Ooh, leave them wanting more. I love it. Little tease, Yeah.

985
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:05,559
Speaker 1: Just a little tea so the people after a year

986
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,159
worth of me being like her, I'll be back eventually.

987
00:49:09,159 --> 00:49:13,559
Added away t Thank you all so much for listening

988
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:15,840
to episode ninety six of Get Out Alive. I promise you,

989
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,559
no matter what happens to me, I'm gonna get to

990
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,000
episode one hundred of this thing. I'm not leaving it

991
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:23,000
under one hundred because that will kill me. So whenever

992
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:25,159
that happens, it'll happen. But I'll keep you updated. So

993
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:28,719
follow me on Instagram I get Out Alive pod. Oh

994
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,079
my god, it's been so long since I've done this.

995
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,719
TikTok get Out Alive. You know what, Just look at

996
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,039
that subscription you know where to find me. Check out

997
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:39,159
our website. Rate five stars wherever you're listening. If you

998
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,199
like this, and if you didn't like it, don't then

999
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,639
you can't rate it. Don't even worry about it any Subscribe, Yeah,

1000
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,000
don't be mean. It's been tough. Subscribe wherever you're listening.

1001
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:51,519
Speaker 2: It's been a tough year.

1002
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,039
Speaker 1: It's been a tough year'd be nice to me. Please

1003
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,800
subscribe to you Listening so you know when new episodes

1004
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,960
drop and otherwise check out up on the if you're interested.

1005
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:03,480
And yeah, we'll be back in two weeks. Thanks Hannah.

1006
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah woo boo.