Speaker 1: What is up, fellows seko as I am damn Valley
coming at you with the one, the only, the certified fantabulous.
He has a license that says so went to school
for it, mister Grant Hughes Esquire or something. Look Ahead train,
offseason lookhead train. Excuse me, it's not a regular season Lookhead.
Speaker 2: Off season look Ahead train rolls onward.
Speaker 1: We are on to the Boston Celtics, who I don't
think I will say before we dig into nitty gritty.
I never expected recording both the Calves and Celtics look
aheads before the conference You would have said one got eliminated,
be like okay, but both of them just being out
and we were almost in a position because Thunder went
to Game seven against the Nuggets, whereas, oh, these three
teams that dominated the regular season, none of them made
the conference finals, which would have been wild.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a clear top tier in the regular season,
and now there's one team from it left standing. Not
on my bingo card, I would say.
Speaker 1: Let's go through these Celtics off season vitals. There's a
lot to get to, including the Jason Tatum injury and
how that impacts everything.
Speaker 2: But going into the offseason.
Speaker 1: They project to be more than twenty million dollars into
the second apron, and that's after factoring in they have
the number twenty eight pick. There are some non guarantees
that could impact that. However, one big thing that's not
included again, twenty million into the second apron plus twenty
million plus al Horfer's a free agent and I didn't
put any I didn't put al Horfer's cap hold in there.
Speaker 2: So it's a UFA. They could resign him.
Speaker 1: But I think this is the question that will guide
us throughout this entire Celtics process. Grant is how aggressive
will they be with the cost cutting post Tatum injury?
Because I think there's some reporting that suggests they were
always gonna cut a ton of money this summer. You
and I were always kind of like, why wouldn't you
just suck it up for one more year? Figured out
in twenty twenty six before I throw it to you?
Just as the notes, if they're cutting costs, I'm assuming
it's to not just get out of the second apron,
but it's hey, we don't want to pay the tax
next year without Tatum, and that means and now I
want to be clear they haven'tuntil the end of the
season next year to do it. But it means cutting
forty million dollars and more than forty million salary, which, grant,
that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, thats a lot.
Speaker 3: That's a decent amount of money. So the extent to
which they're going to cut costs is really interesting to me,
because let's let's kick this around like because it feels
like there's gonna have to be like a cascading effect,
which is to say, you've got to get that twenty
off to get under the second apron if you would
like to aggregate salaries in a subsequent trade, because when
you're over it, you cannot do that. So it's like, okay,
how do we get under the First of all, Al
Horford can't be back because then that number just gets
higher that you've got to cut to get some flexibility.
So if it's if Horford is not back, that's one.
So then is it Drew Holiday that gets moved and
somehow you don't take back enough to stay over the
second apron? I mean, good luck. I guess that means
you're involving Brooklyn or a third team or some other
I don't know, Memphis.
Speaker 2: Has a little. Yeah, there's probably some large trade exceptions out.
Speaker 3: There, but yeah, but do you see what I'm getting
at where it's like there doesn't seem like there's a
great half measure here where it's like to get into
a spot where you can do like non insane, ridiculous
implausible trades. You've got to cut enough to get under
the second apron, and then it's like, oh, we can
do Houser with Porzingis for some you know what I mean, Like,
there's there's ways to get there, but it's like you can't.
Speaker 2: It's hard.
Speaker 3: I struggle to see the way where they peel off
like one or two and then they stay put. It's
just it feels like once you start cutting costs, it
could just be like, oh, we're just chainsawing this thing.
It's there's no scalpel here.
Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about that is at first
I was just looking through this as well.
Speaker 2: You make it. Porzingis is the expiring contract.
Speaker 1: Figure out a way to get rid of him, for sure,
maybe Drew Holliday, but then it's Tatum's gonna be back
in twenty six, twenty seven. You want to hold on
to Jayleen Brown and Derek White, I think objectively from
a basketball perspective, yes, But I wasn't looking like this
might be a two year gap for them, right because
Tatum has to come back from an Achilles' in jury?
What does he look like r the following season, so
you can't You're not going to just go balls to
the wall to flesh out your roster again before seeing him, right,
You're gonna want to see what he looks like and
whether you need a player who's better than.
Speaker 3: Him anymore, And like just the age factor, like holiday
will have a holiday, has age passed his prime? And
like he's not gonna be anywhere close to that in
two full years. Derek White's thirty one, I think, or
turns thirty one soon, So you're talking about two years
of age on Derek White on top of that, And
like I just I mean, I know it's like sensational,
but and I've seen this written in other places and
it's like I feel like it's too much. But it's like,
isn't the cold hearted move to just trade Jalen Brown?
Like isn't that the one? Because there's all the money,
there's how you get something back. That's not because when
we get into Porzingis trades, for example, it's like you're
getting back slightly less expiring money hopefully. Like I don't
you know, but if you want to prepare yourself for
Jason Tatum, if and when he's back, and if and
when he's close to what he was, I think Brown
is the only guy that's gonna get you enough pieces
to where it's like, oh, we can't actually rebuild a
roster around him, Whereas like if it's Holiday and Porzingis
and White, it's just I don't think you're getting enough
back to do more than just get cheaper. Like you'll
get cheaper, but you're not gonna have the tools to
really like get back into it.
Speaker 2: But here's where that because.
Speaker 1: I agree, but that here's the flip side of that coin, though,
is what if Jason Tatum comes back and is more
like a top twenty five or thirty player than top
five or ten, you almost need Jaalen Brown more because
those resources you get for Jalen Brown, are they gonna
give you the tools to get that player?
Speaker 2: Are enough enough step to offset that?
Speaker 3: I would say they they probably can't get you a
player as good as Jalen Brown, but they can get
you a lot of players that maybe get you close
in the aggregate and don't make Jalen Brown's salary. Like
I think that's the factor too, where it's like it's
not gonna get the rules unless we have another like
an impromptu lockout and the CBA gets changed, like the
second Apron stuff is still gonna be there. Tatum's gonna
be making a shit ton in two years and Brown
will also be doing that. And like, I don't know,
I don't think Brown is gonna be worth that, like
objectively at so, I don't know it, Like they're not
gonna do it. They're not gonna treade. I don't think
they'll do it. I'm just like, if I had no
skin in the game, I think I would look really
hard at moving Brown because just I'm gonna get stuff
at least is there a team.
Speaker 2: That you think realistic team?
Speaker 1: We know Oklahoma City could make any team think about anything,
But is there a team that could make them think
come in with an offer? And the one that I so,
there's the Philly be interesting because they're apparently willing to
move the number three pick. But like you also that
need to compensate a team and take on Paul George.
You're not losing, You're not trading Jalen Brown the only
saving seven million dollars or whatever. That's not like you're
not doing that, would like san Antonio with the number
two pick instead of like Gianness. Look at Jalen Brown's
a little bit younger, right, and there's not as not
that there's redundancy between uh Wemby and Giannis, but it's
all right, Like you're kind of spreading it out. We
have darn one three five when you're building a Big
three type deal, and like.
Speaker 3: If it's not Castle like you do, if it's Giannis
and Castle and Fox, like you've got a pretty if
he's shooting, you know situation. Brown does not create that
same problem. I was actually thinking Houston could could put
something on the table.
Speaker 2: The player where it's like the Spurs, okay you get
that pick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like with Houston it's Jabari Smith on the Celtics
would make a lot of anyone from the Rockets you
plug them in there would make a lot of sense.
Speaker 3: And what do they have ten or something like did
they get the I.
Speaker 2: Forget number ten?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know the problem with them though, is
is like you need to still get a third team
if you're going to save a bunch of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's that's gonna be a problem across the
board with the Celtics trades.
Speaker 2: That's why I think this would still be semi nuclear.
But you mentioned his age, wouldn't.
Speaker 1: More of the middle ground be trading Derek White would
be a trade where no, it's not gonna get you
one to the tax by itself, he doesn't make that
much money, but you're gonna get picks and a ton
of cap relief, and then maybe as part of it,
you're also able to move a Porzingis and or Drew
Holiday because that feels like the player that balances. You
could get the haul right, and it's just it's not Yes,
it would hurt, but like you said, he's gonna be
thirty two thirty three in two years when Jason Tatum
is ready to go. That feels like I'm not saying
it has to be the move, but if they were
looking for, I guess a shake up that's gonna accomplish
a bunch of different things for them, that feels like
the move.
Speaker 3: Then yeah, I think that's right. I think that that's
your like semi aggressive, but it's like it's their middle
ground move between trading Brown and then just dumping holiday
or or porzingis so one of the things I kept
running up against. And we're going very off script. I
know there's a few more bullets to get through here,
but like do you do you how do you get
around the idea that what Boston wants to do is
get cheaper in twenty five twenty six and the way
that the league looks with cap space right now, Like
you there's just nowhere to dump money other than Brooklyn.
Like you can trim, but you're taking back salary from
basically everybody else. And all you can do is make
the trade work at like the extreme parameters of like
how much matching money you can you know what I mean?
Like there's it's a huge problem in trying to put
trades together because there's always money coming back to Boston,
and it's like that the whole point is to like
get cheaper. How do we how do we navigate that?
Speaker 1: It takes a multitude of teams or deals. It's I
kind of lay out one scenario for you. I was
gonna propose this to you as a hypothetical. Yeah, and
I know you have some presingius deals. Would Dallas trade PJ. Washington,
Daniel Gafford, and Dwight Powell to Boston for Drew Holliday?
And if they would, you said, Dwight Powell to Brooklyn's
that neither Dallas or Boston are taking in more money
than they receive. And I'm assuming they would just take
Dwight Powle's a four million dollar player option and then
Boston okay in theory like oh PG Washington to soak
up some tape minutes, and then you have Gaffer with
Horford going out.
Speaker 2: Now you have options.
Speaker 1: It's can we still dump Porzingis or those are players
because you've broken now Drew Hottay up into two smaller salaries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that you can then trade it.
Speaker 1: It gets easier to trade them into exceptions because there
are some teams that have larger trade exceptions are far
enough beneath the tax where you can make something work.
But to me, I look at it as like it's
not even just about I think they're probably gonna need
to move two players at least from their like core,
but it's also just like it's not going to be
just two moves and if it is, oh, that was
an eight team trade that we just.
Speaker 3: Like, so are you thinking, like, let's say the Gafford
Washington deal goes down in the off season and then
you are hoping to flip them at the deadline to
cause you know, you still if as long as you're
under whatever apron or tax line you're trying to get
under by the end of the season, you're good. So
like you do not have to get all this savings
done before the season starts. I know most people listening
to this are aware of that, but it's like, just
you're trying to find like any flexibility we can and
swing all these deals. You're so you're thinking, let's just
break up some of these bigger deals into smaller ones
and those are just easier to move in subsequent trades, right,
That's the way you do it.
Speaker 1: In two with a Gafford in PJ Washington is they
are expiring, so that's kind of the benefit. But it's
also well, you can't move them after the season is
over because they're technically free agents. So but yeah, that
would that would be unless it's just I mean, like
would Brooklyn just like is Brooklyn taking anyone. I don't
know what Porzingius trade was Brooklyn taking Yeah Jaalen Brown,
Sure they would take him into cap space, but that's
not I would be shocked if that's the move that
Boston's looking to do. Like, short of that, it has
to take at least like if you're trying to duck
the tax, Like think about it this way. If you're
trying to duck the tax with Porzingis and Drew Holliday,
I think they make about like sixty two million combined
or whatever it is, you can only take back like
twenty to twenty two million dollars in salary basically, and
even that might still recr like, oh, we gotta move
Sam Howsard because we got felt the rest of the
roster and will still.
Speaker 2: Be into the tax or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you're fine bing a little bit into the tax,
but like that's like you can't trade one player. You
can trade one player and maybe figure out a way
to No, you can't, Like you're twenty million into the
second Apron, so it'd.
Speaker 2: Be really hard to move one player and get out
of the second.
Speaker 1: You could do it, I'm sure it was Derek White,
Like you could figure out a way to do it,
but like you're by extension. Though if you're doing that,
you're hurting your return on that player because part of
the value going out is this team's saving us a
bunch of money. And then it's also narrowing your focus
because there are only so many teams that can do.
Speaker 3: That, and not only that, who's who's rushing to help
Boston out of this predicament. It's it's like there's there's
few people, there's few teams out there that can really
be facilitators anyway. But it's like if you're the rest
of the league, you know Boston like you like it's
almost like Boston's being like held hostage because it's like
ownership is gonna have to foot this bill if if
this five hundred million dollars payroll and tax thing, like
other teams can squeeze, like Boston doesn't have a lot
to sweeten stuff with. Teams can just be really irrational
and unreasonable and just like predatory and what it's gonna
cost you in other assets to get off some of
this money. If they really want to be like dicks
about it.
Speaker 2: Do you, especially if it's we're trying to get off
all of this money.
Speaker 3: Quote it you don't need to help these guys out.
Speaker 1: Do I want to actually get to your trades? But
do you think now Boston can trade up to two
first rounders? They have the number twenty eight pick in
this year's draft, and then they can only trade twenty
twenty six or two and twenty seven because a weird
because they're twenty thirty two pick is frozen.
Speaker 2: So like now you get into you could you have
some swaps?
Speaker 1: Do you think that any of their players, if they
were trying to move them right now, would require a
sweetener to move like and I look at Drew Holliday
as the example. Even though I think that he is
better than Christaps porzingis right now, his contract is just longer. Yeah,
do you think that like the Dallas deal I proposed,
I think that could be something Dallas easily talks itself
out of. But you could also say, well, Gafford is
superfluous when we have and even PJ. Washington with Cooper
flag there and Nausey Moore like, but are they even
doing that? Like those two guys are expiring contracts, so
it's low stakes. But you look at you Holiday's money
with what you're gonna have to pay Anthony Davis and
Kyrie Irving moving forward. So do you view any of
these players and I think it really comes down to
Porzingis or Drew Holliday to where it's you have to
include if you're looking not even for a straight dump,
but to save money, like it's going to require you
to attach an asset to that.
Speaker 3: Well, So let's use the Holiday to Dallas thing as
an example. I think normally Dallas would be like, we're
spending this money on three players. Anyway, Holiday is better
in the aggregate. Maybe that's true. I think that's true.
But like Washington and Gafford are both starters. They were
in the finals as starters, like not that long ago.
Speaker 1: Following them winning the Cooper Flag pick. I absolutely would
make that trade if I was Dallas. Now, if they
didn't have Cooper Flag, it's a I think PJ. Washington
becomes like way more valuable than Yeah.
Speaker 3: So but yeah, no, I just I was. I think
like normally you just say, yeah, we'd rather have Drew
Holliday for a thirty three million or whatever it is
than these other guys. But because it's Boston and because
as Dallas or whoever you want to insert into this
hypothetical knows Boston's got to move this. You're gonna be like,
we're gonna need a pick and and if you like,
I think, I think you hardball it and I think
you probably have success because the Celtics have to get
out of this. Porzingis is a weird case because he's expiring,
but but like.
Speaker 1: And he's an anomaly still if he's anywhere near healthy, like,
he's still just an anomaly at the position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what to do with him. I'm
gonna give you a bunch of fake on it.
Speaker 2: Would Brooklyn do something like this? This? I think this
just maximizes.
Speaker 1: Like if Boston said, hey, here's the number twenty eight
pick and Drew Holliday, would Brooklyn just do that? Because
Boston's saving like thirty five million when you factor in
the maybe a little bit less because of then roster charges.
But that's like thirty five million dollars in money.
Speaker 2: Is that enough? Where's Brooklyn? Like, No, what's.
Speaker 3: Brooklyn's sending back? Nothing?
Speaker 1: Basically, it's their cap space that they're taking them. By
the way, Brooklyn already has like a bunch of first
round picks in this draft. But I'm just wondering, like,
is that even enough to do that?
Speaker 3: I mean, cause it will cause if you're well, I
guess if you're Brooklyn. It just depends on like, can
we turn holiday into more positive value? If so, we
should just do this. We'll just take the free pick
and then flip them for whatever. But if that were well,
I was gonna say, well, if that were true, then
the Celtics would just trade them somewhere else. But it's
like they can't for all the reasons we just talked
about it. It has to be Brooklyn. So yeah, that's
really interesting. I would do that if I were the
Nets and just bank on holiday like being movable for
more value.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be very like Sam Presty of them to
do something like that, it feels like. But I also
just like, you run up until okay, that extension is
now beginning.
Speaker 2: That that makes it weird. I would say so.
Speaker 1: I think they honestly, I think they'd be more likely
to do it if you said, here's number twenty eight
and porzingis because of the expiring thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just wild to be talking about the Celtics
trading guys with a pick for nothing, like, that's that's
where we're at.
Speaker 1: And we would have been like, had these reports say
Jayson Tatum never gets hurt and say thee the clues anyway,
you and I would have been like lampooning against this
idea because now reporting saying, oh, they were always going
to do like something kind of yes, and we would
have been that's dumb.
Speaker 2: But now it's like, yeah, like we get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean what I would say is how to
phrase this delicately, I it's it sucks that Jason Tatum
got hurt. It's bad across the board. I do think
if Boston had just lost, you know, and Tatum were healthy,
teams would be even less inclined to help them get
out of this mess. But I do think a lot
of teams around the league are looking at the Celtics
as like, well, they're not contending again, so we don't
need to be as like difficult to deal with. We can't.
We're a little more likely to be helpful as opposed
to like, why would we help a team that's trying
to win a title again? Just like you know, get
a little flexibility.
Speaker 1: Worse though, So it's like it might matter more if
you're a lot like, so the nets perspectively, well, we're
making them worse. Are they going to be someone who
were competing against them the lottery? Like if that's something
teams will think about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, all right, So again I'll just
throw them. I'm gonna I can rapid fire them to
you and you can just react. So again, this is
Christaps Porzingis to the Detroit Pistons. Are you intrigued yet
or a little bit? And all they're giving back are
Simoni Fontachio and Marcus Sasser. And that's assuming that the
Pistons basically don't bring back a bunch of their own
guys renounced rights and they have like twenty six ish
million in cap space. So you just have Porzingis and
all it costs you is Fontechio and sassar I.
Speaker 2: But it costs it also cost you Moleague Beasley.
Speaker 3: It does and like maybe Tim Hardaway Junior.
Speaker 1: I don't think they should resigned Tim Hardaway Junior. And
there they're probably help.
Speaker 2: He might be back on the minimum. But like, okay,
but then you have Porzingis, Stuart and Duran, right.
Speaker 3: You're moving Stewart probably or you're just like Duran.
Speaker 2: We're not.
Speaker 3: I mean, like I'm intrigued by Duran porzingis front Lines
just for fun?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: But yes, Stewart probably is gone and you could trade
him for value.
Speaker 1: Honestly, Yeah, if you were gonna then trade Stewart for
value and Mike still maintain act well, because you could
know because if you're using cap space campaign over the
cap team, you're only gonna have the room exception at
that point.
Speaker 2: That feels such like a weird thing to say.
Speaker 1: I think it's if you had, if you were able
to preserve like the room necessary too, Like I would
prefer to, can we find a third team, trade Isia
Stewart into an exception, operate over the cap, and resign Beasley,
Then I'm definitely I might consist.
Speaker 3: That's because you're more creative about trades than I am. Okay,
next one trading porzingis the number twenty eight pick in
this draft. I believe the Celtics also have number thirty
two and the twenty eight first round pick protected two
to fourteen. That's the Spurs pick. They have a Spurs
pick coming in from the Derek White trade.
Speaker 2: I think if I have that right, Oh, they have
one going out. Oh.
Speaker 3: If that's the case, then this is all fucked. I'm
not gonna look it up. So you get Porzingis twenty
eight thirty two coming back from the Bulls is Nicola Vucevic,
who is also expiring. But it makes like two thirds
of what Porzingis does Dale and Terry and number twelve.
This falls apart entirely if I had it wrong on
that Spurs pick, which maybe I do.
Speaker 1: So you're so they're sending what are they sending into
like Boston? Oh, is a first round pick to San
Antonio in twenty twenty eight?
Speaker 2: It's a swap. Oh, that's what it is.
Speaker 3: It's a swap. So could you trade some portion and
make it like the worst of the worst of the worst? Yeah, okay,
let's do that.
Speaker 2: I do that if I'm Boston. How much money are
they saving as part of that deal?
Speaker 3: Uh, well, it's only like six I think it's like
six million. But then you're also cutting off whatever that
is times whatever for the tax. But you're also like,
you're nope, not coming anywhere near getting under the second apron.
You're gonna have to do something else to get under
the second apron. And so wait, I'm sorry it was
porzingis porzingis twenty eight two and a portion of that swap.
But you're getting back vooch Dale and Terry and number twelve.
Speaker 2: In this time. I would pounce on off. If the
Bulls do that, I feel like, do the Bulls do
that giving up twelve?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, So that you're there would be
valuing porzingis a bunch, yeah, which the theory.
Speaker 3: Would be, if you're gonna pay Josh Giddy a bunch
of money and you're giving modest Bizillis a bigger offensive role,
it might be nice to have like a higher volume
spacer and someone who could defend the room. If Giddy
is also a part of your like big time rotation
going forward, I don't know. We'll see.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that was definitely interesting for Boston.
I like that for Boston.
Speaker 3: I was trying to think of one where Boston like
actually gets something. The twelve pick was the best I
could do. Uh, Chris HAPs porzingis to the Warriors for
Moses Moody, Buddy Heel, Trace Jackson Davis, and Gie Santos.
Nothing else, just four dudes. Celtics get like two shooters
that maybe offset the additional loss of white or holiday
down the line, Warriors get Porzingis is expiring, Celtics say
very little, but these are again you've broken this up
into chunks that you can be traded into exceptions.
Speaker 1: I actually like that for the Celtics more than I
do the Warriors, because we know what the next steps
are for Boston and with the Golden State. It's all right,
like now you've obliterated some depth.
Speaker 2: For Porzingis makes a lot of sense. But is he also.
Speaker 1: Intuitively, is he a player that would normally like that
you would view as a Warriors player if he's healthy.
Speaker 3: I mean, DeMarcus Cousins was the Warriors player once Dan.
Anything's possible, everybody can be a Warrior. Yeah. Also he's
getting in the way of Quentin Post, who I excluded
from this deal on purpose. Uh it's just you know, uh, okay,
how about this? Uh Porzingis and Peyton Pritchard, so we're aggregating.
So this presumes that the Celtics did something else to
get under the second apron. So just file put that,
put that one in your brain. Uh kp and Pritchard
to the Pelicans for Kelly Linok and Herb Jones ooh.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's interesting. I ultimately don't think New Orleans would
do it. I agree that if you if Porzingis is healthy,
that's where putting him next to Zion Wow?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that then you get a one year trial with it,
and like, I don't know, you got Trey Murphy.
Speaker 1: Uh, I mean, herb have a lot of shooting now
with Pritchard and Murphy and Richard Helps.
Speaker 3: Pritchard's not nothing. But but this presumes that the Celtics
have already gotten under the second apron before they do
this deal.
Speaker 1: So can I throw like a hypothetical trade at you, Like,
if you're Brooklyn, would you take whether it's number thirty
two or not, whatever, it takes number twenty eight plus
Porzingis plus Sam Hauser, and then I think Boston's like
basically out of the tax at that point, Like Brooklyn's
cap space is basically gone. Is that enough for Brooklyn
to say, like, there goes our cap space, but we
have an extra first round pick and Sam Houser's shooting,
like could stay there for a little bit, and Porzingis
is you could play him in Claxon together. I guess
if we really want it to. Maybe you think you
could flip him for value with the deadline if he's healthy.
Speaker 3: That's where That's what I'm fixating on is like does
Porzingis as expiring have more flippable value than Holiday with
his years and dollars? Like, I don't know, Like it
depends on probably not, probably not be its Like there's
a scenario where Holiday does get you real assets back,
but like everyone bringing Porzingis on at the deadline would
be like, well, this is a rental and he might
just not be healthy for the playoffs like that that
feels scary. So but Brooklyn gets twenty eight and thirty
two basically for vaporizing their cap space and.
Speaker 1: They also have twenty six and twenty seven and nineteen
and number eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems like a lot of PICKSTN.
Speaker 1: So can I throw Derek White trade at you? We
talked about it on the Warriors look Ahead. I don't
want to throw it on the Celtish bunks. And now
I actually mapped out a framework for it.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, what this is.
Speaker 1: What's contingent on this, aside from Boston looking at moving
Derek White, would be that the Nets have to have
interest in Jonathan Kaminga and believe that the Warriors will
match it off for sheet because they don't need to
do anything to get Jonathan Kaminga.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're in. We're go ahead.
Speaker 1: So Brooklyn is sending number twenty seven to Boston. The
Warriors are sending their first round picks in twenty six,
twenty eight, and twenty thirty to Boston, and they are
double signed in trading Jonathan Kaminga, and then Brooklyn can
take its pick between Kevon Looney and Gary Payton the
second So the latter two years can be no guaranteed,
they'd function as expirings, but with base year compensation, they
should still be able to match the Derek White money
for the Warriors.
Speaker 2: And then Derek White goes to the Warriors.
Speaker 1: So as a quick synopsis, Brooklyn is giving up number
twenty eight to get Jonathan Kaminga basically, and then Boston
is getting four first round picks, not taking back any
money in this scenario, and then Golden State is getting
Derek White for three first round picks, Jonathan Kaminga and
then a sign and trade with GP two or Kevon Looney. Now,
if we want to throw at alternatives, you could just
include Moses Moody instead of doing this double sign and trade.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want so the sign up trade thing, you
get hard capped at the first apron, right if you so,
you've got it here.
Speaker 2: Only if you're acquiring, Okay, but the Warriors.
Speaker 1: You want the base your compensation to work out so
that the Warriors are taking in less money than they're
sending out because then are not hard capped at the
first apron.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, if you know Kaminga's gone and
like there's just not a number, the number doesn't matter
as Golden State, like we just this has run its course.
Then like giving up three firsts, one of which will
be in twenty six, which, if things go well, will
be in the late twenties for for White, I think
that's that's a pretty reasonable future mortgaging because twenty eight
and thirty is gonna be rough because you're gonna lose
all your vets. So you just maybe have to eat
that one. But I think to make a run at
it one more time, or one or two more times,
you might be willing to pay that as Golden State.
And then the Celtics come out smelling like a rose
because there's just a bunch of picks and they say
they got off money without any coming back.
Speaker 2: That's now the.
Speaker 1: Curve balls would be, what if Brooklyn says we're not
including number twenty eight? Would Boston still do it just
for the three first round picks and ros savings?
Speaker 3: I think you'd have to, don't you think, like, because
now you've got other sweet numbers.
Speaker 1: If number twenty eight, it's like the deal breaker. The
Warriors need to like figure something out the right If
that's the deal breaker. The other thing would be, now,
what if Boston says they want this player or the
Nets say they want this Like if it has to
be Moses Moody, you can't double sign and trade it.
Speaker 3: So it's the question, would I include Moody in that deal?
If I'm Golden State.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's like pushed like Boston or Brooklyn even
says that they have to be involved.
Speaker 3: That gets a little harder. But I think you probably.
I just think Derek White is such a like a
winning player and would matter so much specifically to the Warriors.
I think I still do that if I'm Golden State.
Speaker 1: You imagine a starting five of Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green,
pajem Ski White, and Steph Curry.
Speaker 3: That's like the highest collective basketball like you, well, the
Nuggets have the highest collective best ball at you because
they have Jokic, But like that's that's way up there.
That would be pretty good.
Speaker 1: It just if the Nets at all have interest in
like a two year deal with John like maybe a
two plus one with Johnathan Kamena. I don't think that's
like a imbalanced offer for anyone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and really too, like the Celtics getting picks
like one that softens the blow of like a couple
of years from now when you have Tatum and like
I don't know what else, but it's also another means
to help you get off some of this other money,
like if you do come to wanting to trade, like
Jalen Brown's probably don't know if he's I guess he's
positive value, but it's like there may come a point
where we flip on him and it's like you're talking
about him like you would Paul George or like not Beal,
but like something more like that. Just having those picks,
even if like maybe to move Porzingis it might take
a pick or maybe to move whoever Baday might.
Speaker 1: Take that or now it gets easier after Derek White
would do you know what he's on the books for
next season. It's like thirty million or gets up into
the third. Now, yeah, so you get and you are
taking back a pick with money. So he's at thirty
point three. It's like you're probably you're saving. Like let's
just round down and say twenty six twenty seven million
dollars off rip. Then it makes it easier to Okay,
we could take back money in a porzingis or holiday
trade and still duck the tax. So and like you said,
you replenish the cupboard of picks, like those are gonna
be cost controlled. You're getting another pick this year, and
then you're getting a pick in two thousand. Yeah, they're
low picks, but those are just you try to slide
those turn you know, let's say you try to turn
one of or two of the four picks you have
in twenty seven, twenty eight, thirty two, and then that
Warrior's twenty six pick into just a rotation player or
two on a cost controlled deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know like it would just because Derek
White's been so good in Boston. I just at this rate,
because this feels like a two year gap. I think
if you're Boston, you'd have to if that was available.
And I think the biggest if honestly more so than
Boston's side, is like do the nets even watch?
Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, so much hinges so much of this offseason
hinges on that, and who can say? I also would
say the Sun's taught us that if you get three
first round picks, you actually get nine because you can
just trade each one of them for three shittier firsts
and so you just triple your money. It's it's the
biggest scheme ever. I don't know why the Sons are
the only team that ever figured that out.
Speaker 2: Do you do you have any other fake trades to
throw about with the Celtic.
Speaker 3: I had a magic one. So this is porzingis to
Orlando for Wendell Carter junior, who makes freaking nothing going forward,
and Mo Wagner who has a team option for next year.
So the way you've got to pick that up in advance,
and that's saving the Celtics like ten ish million plus
the tax and penalty savings for next year. And then
Wagner comes off and then you have a starting center
in Wendell Carter Junior, who's still like we do the
Jason Tatum jokes, but like Wendell Carter Junior is also
nineteen years old perpetually. Yeah, and he so he got
an extension. I'm pulling it up right now. So next
year year in twenty five, twenty six, he makes ten
point nine million dollars and then he goes up to
eighteen nineteen five and twenty point one in twenty eight
twenty nine, which is a team option.
Speaker 2: So like he actually gets up into the twenty some show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good for him. So, like, I don't know, that's
kind of the middle way where Boston's like, yeah, we're
saving money, but we're also getting a guy in Carter
that like conceivably could just be a starter on the
next very good version of this team.
Speaker 2: And the other thing you could do is, well, how
much is he making next year? Uh?
Speaker 3: Ten point nine?
Speaker 1: You could just send him into someone's non tax Like
the Warriors would probably give you their two if they,
let's say they have the non tax payment level available,
they'd probably just take him into that and give you
their twenty.
Speaker 2: Twenty six first round pick for Wendell Carter junior.
Speaker 3: I think yeah, and like that. I mean, and the
magic get porzingis he can shoot a very like short
story on that one, but like, yeah, if you're if
You're boss, that is that interesting?
Speaker 2: Do you like that one?
Speaker 1: Because I think Boston could turn around and then if
they like if yeah, if you want Wendell Carter is like,
we're gonna try to kind of use him to replace
We're gonna bring back Luke Cornett and then try and
use him to replace like both Al Horford and porzingis
in different ways. Yeah, you do that, and then you
could probably grease the wheels of Mo Wagner set. Like
I think there's a step to just like you save
them ten million dollars a year. I think that could
end up being twenty plus by the end of it
when you look at like other I think that's my
favorite one. The only problem is, uh, the magic bring
this to Franz and he's like no, Like you can't
trade you know what. You tell Franz to hit his
three pointers and then you can say, hey, Franz, we're
bringing in somebody that can't hit. By the way, it's
like we just gave your brother a free eleven million
dollars because if you're keeping him, why are you picking
up that team unless you want it as a trade piece. There,
I didn't want to ask you before we get out
of here with the Celtics, Is there just like any
scenario where they don't go like the nuclear nuclear oute
and they're trying to compete next year and it's we're
gonna duck the second apron, which I mean.
Speaker 2: That's still twenty million dollars, so that is nuclear. But
is there?
Speaker 1: So I'll say this, is there any scenario in which
three through four of Al Horford, Derek White christopsports against
Jaalen Brown and Drew Holliday are back?
Speaker 3: So those five guys you named five, where four of
them are back, only one is gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's basically what I'm getting at. Yeah, if they
trade Jalen Brown and that one is Jalen Brown, I
think that.
Speaker 3: I think that because otherwise you just you can't really
accomplish what you need to accomplish. So yeah, that is
the scenario. Is that a likely sinner? Like? What? Oh, okay,
i'm uh, I'm I'm volleying back to you here. What
is the percentage chance that the Celtics trade Jalen Brown
before twenty five twenty six higher than it was, right, well, sure,
but it's like it's not fifty percent. It seems unlikely.
Speaker 2: But is it?
Speaker 3: Is it twenty five percent?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: Is it forty? Is it? Is it? Like two?
Speaker 1: What we need to come up with our own uh?
Dunktown does though? What are the odds we need to
come up with our own version of that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: So basically before the start of twenty two they trade
him this summer, oh this summer before we start nextually, Ah,
I'm gonna say, like.
Speaker 3: Okay, and I think I'd say I would go higher,
but only because I think they're gonna look around at
like they're gonna go the like the less drastic measures first,
and they'll be like, oh, none of these are gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like San Antonio or Houston or even I don't
know if you I mean, I guess he'd be a
fit in Okay. See, like if they just came bowling
like down with offers. Yeah yeah, Wow, damn that was
this tough situ. This is so this is what do
we say all the time though, that these title windows
even when it's we knew there was gonna be changing
in Boston. But it felt like they had an open
ended window, and they've had a longer window than most.
This is not an insul to them, but like, there's
always something. There's a trade demand, there's a contract coming up,
there's the second Apron, there's an injury, there's always something
that's just going to change the trajectory of her team
way sooner than it seems like.
Speaker 3: Yeap, this title window is shut. Unfortunately, Like, hey.
Speaker 1: Even if they keep jailing Brown, I would hazard that
the next time the Celtics window is open of this core,
like maybe a maximum of one of these players is
next to Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3: Still, yep, I think that's right. It's and it sucks.
It sucks. I'm not rooting for it, but I know
I'm glad they got that title. That that that helps,
got anything else? No, you ready to take Thanks everybody
for grinding through with the Celtics offseason, which is probably
one of the harder ones we're gonna do, because there's
just not a lot to be, not a lot to do.
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