Speaker 1: We have covered some pretty strange cases over the course
Speaker 1: of this podcast, and today's case, though solved, still earns
Speaker 1: a place amongst one of the most strangest cases that
Speaker 1: we have ever come across. It's the story of twin
Speaker 1: sisters who, for one reason or another, seems to go
Speaker 1: insane at the very same time. In what was described
Speaker 1: as potentially fueled by drugs, the two sisters ran straight
Speaker 1: into busy highway traffic, endangering their own lives. Though they
Speaker 1: narrowly survived, one sister would continue her delusion and would
Speaker 1: take her as far as murdering a complete stranger. This
Speaker 1: is the bizarre and strange story of the Ericsson sisters.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. The following material more audience listener discretion.
Speaker 1: Christmas is over and the new Year is on its way.
Speaker 1: We hope you guys had a merry Christmas, a happy holiday,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. We were pretty busy on ours,
Speaker 1: not gonna lie, but it was good.
Speaker 2: I feel like we were. We really chilled, especially on
Speaker 2: Christmas Well Day, Christmas Day, Christmas Day, yes, but there
Speaker 2: was still like a lot of Christmas dinner making, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's and there was still a lot of hustle
Speaker 1: and bustle about it, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Our turkey wasn't done until nine, yeah, on Christmas Day.
Speaker 2: I don't know what exactly we were doing there.
Speaker 1: The math apparently didn't work out for how how long
Speaker 1: you cook it per a kilogram of the turkey. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it took a lot longer than we expected. You're hoping
Speaker 1: to have dinner around like seven, no thirty insteads But.
Speaker 2: It was delicious. It was worth the way it was.
Speaker 1: We did like turkey of course stuffing. We had some
Speaker 1: some roasted vegetables like yams or with sweet potato. What's
Speaker 1: the difference between.
Speaker 2: A yam and a I think yes, I don't really know,
Speaker 2: but it was sweet potato and Brussels broke okay, with
Speaker 2: like a cranberry glaze.
Speaker 1: It was real good. It was delicious. Yes, So hopefully
Speaker 1: you guys had some good eats over your Christmas holiday.
Speaker 1: And we did a giveaway over on Patreon, which we
Speaker 1: didn't do the official announcement of the winners yet or
Speaker 1: contact the winners just because you know, hey, Christmas, but
Speaker 1: we did a little pre show podcast that we do sometimes,
Speaker 1: and we talked about who the winners were, so they're
Speaker 1: technically announced, but we didn't do the official post yet,
Speaker 1: but we did a little Christmas giveaway.
Speaker 2: Yeah there. Yeah, you know it's the time of year,
Speaker 2: tis the season, right the season.
Speaker 1: I am looking forward to things going back to normal
Speaker 1: in the new year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, a new year. New Year's are kind
Speaker 2: of nice. Sometimes it's just like a like a fresh start.
Speaker 1: It is. I mean, a fresh start can happen anytime.
Speaker 2: On totallykend, but it's it's I guess it's amplified, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think for us like it comes with that,
Speaker 1: like the new year is coming at a very convenient
Speaker 1: time for a fresh start. Yes, because we moved our
Speaker 1: tiny home recently where you know, we're building a new
Speaker 1: coop for our chickens. We're on some new area and
Speaker 1: a lot of busyness is coming to an end, and
Speaker 1: I think that twenty twenty five for us is going
Speaker 1: to be a good way to get right back on track,
Speaker 1: get things normalized, and you know, just just do our thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, it's going to be good.
Speaker 1: I think it will be. Yeah, what's your favorite thing
Speaker 1: you got for Christmas, which I'm just going to say
Speaker 1: from me, what's your favorite thing you got from me
Speaker 1: for Christmas?
Speaker 2: Oh man? Probably the shoes that you got me.
Speaker 1: The shoes, okay, well yeah, cause we.
Speaker 2: Were just doing stockings this year, and so like a
Speaker 2: pair of shoes isn't really you know, expected in a
Speaker 2: stalking right well, and I freaking love shoes.
Speaker 1: So technically they didn't fit in the stocking.
Speaker 2: They didn't. It was like outside of the stalking, but
Speaker 2: still I really like shoes and their comfy and they
Speaker 2: fit perfect, and it was like, damn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with keeping it simple and you know,
Speaker 1: low budget. That's kind of what we did. And I
Speaker 1: think one of the favorite things I got from you
Speaker 1: was my Jones Cream soda. Really, yes, I love Jones's.
Speaker 2: Okay, so say it one year because I like struggled
Speaker 2: with this. I can't always find it for some reason.
Speaker 1: That's okay.
Speaker 2: Would you would be noticed and be like upset? Right?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, but you'd be like, oh damn, I could
Speaker 2: use a Jones Cream soda right now.
Speaker 1: Then I'd go buy one. I know, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with that, right.
Speaker 2: Oh man? I thought it was going to be like
Speaker 2: the gloves or the the silicon measuring cups. I gave you.
Speaker 1: Touche because I do some like arts projects inside those
Speaker 1: measuring cups are perfect, and it's not.
Speaker 2: Really excited about those.
Speaker 1: The new work gloves, yes, love them. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just there's something about that Jones's cream soda. I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: Well, you don't have it very often.
Speaker 1: No, I don't really buy it for myself. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was good. I hopefully you guys, like I said,
Speaker 1: had a great Christmas and holiday, and hopefully your new
Speaker 1: year coming up is going to be even better and
Speaker 1: just all around fantastic because you deserve it absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So should we get into the case today rather than
Speaker 1: talking about the holidays and everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, people might be holidayed out and they just want to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, vege and listen to this good call.
Speaker 1: I know, I've got a coffee in hand, and I'm
Speaker 1: ready to talk about this case. This is a weird one.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. It's just this case is weird,
Speaker 1: flat out. I don't know how else to describe it,
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to try. It's weird, okay, period.
Speaker 2: I mean done from the intro. It sounded a bit odd.
Speaker 1: It's it's odder than you will expect from the intro.
Speaker 1: I gave some things away. I gave the main plot away, okay,
Speaker 1: but things that happen in nuances about how it happens.
Speaker 1: It's fucking weird. And like I said, it is a
Speaker 1: solved case, but that doesn't mean there's not mystery about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Okay, I'm intrigued.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna take a sip of coffee. Let's do
Speaker 1: this thing so good? Okay. So everything began on the
Speaker 1: sixteenth of May in two thousand and eight in Mallow,
Speaker 1: County Cork, sorry malle Mallow in County Cork, Ireland. There
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 2: You just laughed, you mess up right away, and just hot.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I messed up bad, like right in the
Speaker 1: first sentence. So I guess that's just set in the
Speaker 1: tone for you know how twenty twenty twenty five is
Speaker 1: going to start going for me? Probably?
Speaker 2: Well, I just have okay, really really quickly. My friend
Speaker 2: gave I don't know if she's going to listen to this,
Speaker 2: she may, but she gave us a Christmas card and
Speaker 2: it was like, May your twenty twenty six be bright
Speaker 2: or whatever, and I was like, dude, you're a year ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so let me start that over again. Everything
Speaker 1: began on the sixteenth of May two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: in Mallow, which is the county Cork in Ireland.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: The weather on this particular day felm, you know, quintessentially Irish,
Speaker 1: or at least that's how Chatchypt described it when I
Speaker 1: asked about the weather for this date to kind of
Speaker 1: set the scene, which quintessentially Irish, I guess is you know,
Speaker 1: it's cool, with temperatures hovering between eight and fourteen degrees
Speaker 1: celsius or about forty seven to fifty eight degrees fahrenheit.
Speaker 1: I guess that's what Chatchypt defines as quint essentially Irish. Okay,
Speaker 1: But it was the sort of spring day where a
Speaker 1: light jacket was a must. Clouds hung over in the
Speaker 1: low sky, leaving everything soft and muted tones, with a
Speaker 1: rain inevitable for the light, rain inevitable for the evening.
Speaker 1: Self is nestled on the banks of the river Blackwater
Speaker 1: and carries an old worth, an old world charm about
Speaker 1: it kind of blends seamlessly into the modern day. Buzz.
Speaker 1: It's known as the Crossroads of Munster. The town has
Speaker 1: always been a meeting place Epton history and stories as well,
Speaker 1: but now in two thousand and eight, Mallow has evolved
Speaker 1: into a lively market town, and on this particular day,
Speaker 1: Ursula Erickson went to visit her sister Sabina. Not a
Speaker 1: whole on has been released on the women's earlier life,
Speaker 1: but we do know that they were both born on
Speaker 1: the third of November in nineteen sixty seven in Sweden
Speaker 1: and were identical twins. They grew up alongside their older
Speaker 1: siblings Mona and Bjorn. They enjoyed what could typically be
Speaker 1: described as a peaceful childhood within Sweden. There wasn't any
Speaker 1: records of mental health issues in their background, nor in
Speaker 1: their family, nor did they even have a criminal background themselves.
Speaker 1: So forwarding to the year two thousand, the sister's gone
Speaker 1: their separate ways, at least geographically, with Ursula settling in
Speaker 1: the United States while Sabina had moved to Ireland, where
Speaker 1: she started a family. Now according to reports, Ursula occasionally
Speaker 1: traveled from Ireland or sorry traveled to Ireland from the
Speaker 1: US to visit her family's sister, right and the two
Speaker 1: were described as being on good terms during this time.
Speaker 1: So there's absolutely nothing strange or weird. You know, one
Speaker 1: lives in the US, one lives in the Ireland or
Speaker 1: in the Ireland in Ireland, and one travels, you know,
Speaker 1: to go see the other from time to time. Now,
Speaker 1: on this particular day that I mentioned and describe the
Speaker 1: weather and all that sort of thing, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Ursula was headed over to visit Sabina in Ireland. So
Speaker 1: she made her way to her sister's place for this visit,
Speaker 1: and after staying and visiting for a few hours, Sabina
Speaker 1: eventually began having a bit of an argument or a
Speaker 1: fight if you will, with her husband. It's unclear and
Speaker 1: exactly what the argument was about or what started it,
Speaker 1: but it was enough for Sabina to leave her home
Speaker 1: with Ursula. So the two actually secretly left the home
Speaker 1: without her husband knowing.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Didn't tell Sabina's husband, They didn't say a word. They
Speaker 1: just left him and her two kids behind.
Speaker 2: Because Sabina, sorry, is the one that lives in Ireland.
Speaker 1: Correct Sabina is the one who's there, So she left
Speaker 1: her her husband and kids at home and just kind
Speaker 1: of snuck out of the house with her sister Ursula. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's all we really know. Now. Sabina's husband was,
Speaker 1: of course concerned when you know his wife was suddenly
Speaker 1: just gone, right, and he didn't hear anything from her
Speaker 1: or you know, her sister as well, So he's just like,
Speaker 1: what's going on, no word for the remain of the day,
Speaker 1: and he went to bed without knowing where she went.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like stressful, it is, especially when you have
Speaker 2: kids and stuff too, right.
Speaker 1: Like, wow, hundred percent. And I don't know if he
Speaker 1: did call anything into authorities, but even if he did,
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot that can be done. I mean, right,
Speaker 1: she's an adult who just left the house. You guys
Speaker 1: had a bit of an argument. She left the house
Speaker 1: with her sister. Cool story, bro, Like, what are you
Speaker 1: gonna do about She's not a missing person. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: an adult, she has free will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, right, more time would have to have passed exactly.
Speaker 1: Now. The next day, two sisters, the two sisters made
Speaker 1: their way to try and purchase two boarding passes. Now,
Speaker 1: I remember Sabina's home was in Ireland, but now By
Speaker 1: the next day, the two women found themselves in the UK,
Speaker 1: some approximate four hundred miles away depending on exactly you know,
Speaker 1: where she lived and stuff, but we'll just say for
Speaker 1: the sake the argument, approximately four hundred miles away. The
Speaker 1: women had boarded the National Express bus, which was headed
Speaker 1: for London. When they arrived at the highway service station
Speaker 1: in Keel, about fifty miles south of their destination Liverpool,
Speaker 1: the women got off the bus to use a batanus.
Speaker 1: They were not feeling too well. However, reportedly they were
Speaker 1: exhibiting some odd behavior after exiting the bus, and the
Speaker 1: driver noticed that they were holding their bags very tightly.
Speaker 1: As a result of the odd behavior, the bus driver
Speaker 1: did not allow the women to get back on the
Speaker 1: bus and board due to safety concerns, and the two
Speaker 1: women were left at the service station on the M
Speaker 1: six motorway.
Speaker 2: Okay, they must have like definitely been acting odd.
Speaker 1: Then they were certainly acting odd, and to the extent
Speaker 1: of what odd behavior really is, We're not certain, but
Speaker 1: it was enough for the bus driver to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't get on the bus again.
Speaker 2: Kind of for the safety of like the other passengers.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming most likely themselves exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, do you want to clarify I did say
Speaker 1: highway earlier, because I'm gonna be talking about this section
Speaker 1: a lot. It's actually called the M six motorway, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to be calling it a motorway from here
Speaker 1: on out because that's what it's actually labeled as. Right
Speaker 1: So here at this station, which is kind of like
Speaker 1: a gas station, convenience store kind of situation as far
Speaker 1: as I'm aware, the manager then also made a phone
Speaker 1: call to police to report two strange women behaving erratically.
Speaker 1: So clearly there is some odd behavior because it's not
Speaker 1: just the bus driver's perspective and maybe the passengers, but
Speaker 1: we also have this manager at the service station who
Speaker 1: thinks the same thing. So there's clearly there's clearly a consensus.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it's obviously quite noticeable too. If that
Speaker 2: many people are, you know, take an action exactly now.
Speaker 1: Officers soon arrived at the service station and spoke to
Speaker 1: both of the women. However, after a while, the police
Speaker 1: left because they found nothing harmful about the women. Maybe
Speaker 1: they were just acting odd or whatever, but in their
Speaker 1: interaction there was nothing wrong, so they let the women
Speaker 1: be Shortly after the officers left, the two women decided
Speaker 1: that they were going to make their way on foot
Speaker 1: out into the traffic on the busy motorway. And when
Speaker 1: I mean busy, I mean yes, busy, like think of
Speaker 1: a Frogger game, Like there's cars constantly going and you're
Speaker 1: in and out trying to cross. Right. CCTV footage was
Speaker 1: pulled and there is footage of them running through traffic
Speaker 1: erratically and narrowly, narrowly escaping life threatening situations.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of just like going, not really necessarily waiting,
Speaker 2: just like yes, going through, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And reportedly they were trying to cross this this motorway
Speaker 1: for one reason or another. I'm assuming to try and
Speaker 1: get to Liverpool, to their destination, but they had kind
Speaker 1: of like no real care for how this was going
Speaker 1: to turn out. They're just like, well we got to cross,
Speaker 1: let's cross.
Speaker 2: Huh. That's terrifying because I've been on some of these
Speaker 2: like busy highways and shit, and that's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's pretty possible, like quite possible that you could get hit.
Speaker 1: Oh it is, especially because it's not only a matter
Speaker 1: of you know, you jump out into heavy traffic and
Speaker 1: you know what you're going fast, hard to break. It's
Speaker 1: a matter of there's other vehicles blocking view exactly.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so you may not even see them. You
Speaker 2: would and you wouldn't be expecting that either.
Speaker 1: Exactly. I've been in a situation, this is quite a
Speaker 1: few years ago, I think I've told you about it,
Speaker 1: where I almost hit someone because someone darted out in
Speaker 1: front and they they were being blocked by another vehicle.
Speaker 1: So there was a left lane beside me that was
Speaker 1: in a turning lane, and that lane was all backed up,
Speaker 1: but I was going straight through, so I was to
Speaker 1: the right of them. So they were backed up and stopped,
Speaker 1: and I was coming through going about fifty kilometers an hour.
Speaker 1: Green light, I'm just going. And then someone darted through
Speaker 1: that left turning lane that was stationary, right into my lane,
Speaker 1: and they saw me and they stopped and like you know,
Speaker 1: like when you like suck your belly into like you know,
Speaker 1: miss like a table or something going back. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was the edge of my truck. Like they sucked themselves
Speaker 1: in and just I barely got by.
Speaker 2: Oh man, in their life just flashed like what is
Speaker 2: this saying?
Speaker 1: Flash before they're eyes. Yeah, Yeah, that's pretty much the situation.
Speaker 1: And that's the sort of thing these women are doing willingly,
Speaker 1: just going out trying to cross this road.
Speaker 2: Huh okay.
Speaker 1: Now, police were soon called back to the scene to
Speaker 1: try and deal with the escalating events. But just as
Speaker 1: it so happened, the officers to respond that day were
Speaker 1: actually being followed by a camera crew who were in
Speaker 1: the middle of filming a TV series about British transport police.
Speaker 1: So the camera crew was filming the entire following events,
Speaker 1: and little did they know that this public disturbance call
Speaker 1: would soon turn into something absolutely horrific. Police managed to
Speaker 1: catch up to Sabina and Ursula on the side of
Speaker 1: the motorway. The footage captured shows them being spoken to
Speaker 1: as everyone tries to figure out the exact situation. Then,
Speaker 1: in that moment, things take a turn for the worse.
Speaker 1: For no apparent reason whatsoever, Ursula makes a mad dash
Speaker 1: from the side of the road into the heavy on
Speaker 1: coming traffic.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: The officer speaking with her tries to grab her but
Speaker 1: is unable to stop her, and she strides out into
Speaker 1: the lanes and she is hit and run over by
Speaker 1: a large cargo truck, one that, by my estimation is
Speaker 1: approximately twenty to twenty five feet long, that is traveling
Speaker 1: approximately fifty miles an hour or eighty kilometers an hour.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, So she like she's done.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming the truck hits her, runs her over, and
Speaker 1: crushes her legs. Police are horrified, man, and they begin
Speaker 1: calling for an ambulance on their radios before the truck
Speaker 1: has even come to a complete stop.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, what the actual hell is happening here?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Now, the worst thing is if you actually go
Speaker 1: back and watch this footage because it is on YouTube,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Really, the thing is, though, there's like
Speaker 1: the footage doesn't actually show how much graphicness because there's
Speaker 1: a few police in front of the camera. So you
Speaker 1: see her dart out, but you don't actually see her
Speaker 1: get hit. But you can see a bit of her
Speaker 1: laying under the truck at one point. But so you
Speaker 1: if you watch his footage, you can see her face.
Speaker 1: She runs out into traffic. She's looking at oncoming traffic
Speaker 1: as she runs into it. She knowingly fucking runs into
Speaker 1: this truck.
Speaker 2: Oh geez. Okay, so okay, I'll just say you continue.
Speaker 1: Well, within all of this chaos, her sister Sabina followed
Speaker 1: her sister's lead and ran into oncoming traffic as well.
Speaker 1: Police were just I mean, they were just moments earlier
Speaker 1: talking about how Sabina had already got knocked down by
Speaker 1: a red car that was parked on the side of
Speaker 1: the road. Don't think it was too serious, but she
Speaker 1: had already got knocked down by a red car and
Speaker 1: now she is facing the full force of another car
Speaker 1: that she and she was hit head on by a
Speaker 1: Volkswagen Polo, smashing the windshield and caving in the roof.
Speaker 2: What the shit? Yeah, okay, I mean, I know, like
Speaker 2: police officers and stuff, they see a lot, but like
Speaker 2: this would just be mind blowing. There would be there
Speaker 2: would be just no, I don't know, no expectation of
Speaker 2: this happening in your day, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: And this came out of nowhere because like they're not
Speaker 1: restraining these two girls in the cuddy. Yeah, they're sitting
Speaker 1: here talking to them, trying to figure out what happened,
Speaker 1: and then just in the blink of an eye, it
Speaker 1: just happens and they run out, both of them, looking
Speaker 1: at oncoming traffic too.
Speaker 2: I feel like something has to be happening within their
Speaker 2: family or or something for this this to be. I
Speaker 2: don't know. It's very confusing.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's very confusing. I'll tell you that. Now. Both
Speaker 1: women were unconscious when paramedics arrived at the scene. Ursula
Speaker 1: woke up first, her legs both badly crushed in the
Speaker 1: truck that she had literally been run over by. She
Speaker 1: repeatedly began biting, scratching, and fending off paramedics as she
Speaker 1: resisted treatment.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, she's lucky to be alive.
Speaker 1: She is. She didn't seem to care about her injuries,
Speaker 1: though in fact, she almost didn't even seemed to notice
Speaker 1: that she was injured at all, and it was reported
Speaker 1: that she seemed to feel no pain whatsoever, but she
Speaker 1: was in critical condition. Meanwhile, her sister, Sabina, regained consciousness
Speaker 1: as well and began resisting paramedics too. She reportedly screamed
Speaker 1: to her sister, they want to sorry, they will steal
Speaker 1: your organs, though I could not find that in the
Speaker 1: video footage I scene. It does seem to be edited
Speaker 1: a bit, but it is reported that this is something
Speaker 1: that she screamed to her sister. They will steal your organs. Okay,
Speaker 1: if that hasn't been bizarre enough. Sabina after being hit
Speaker 1: by a car at high speed and lost consciousness for
Speaker 1: approximately fifteen minutes. She got to her feet. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: she got wrapped by Yeah, she got to her feet,
Speaker 1: began fighting paramedics and officers and I mean literally throwing
Speaker 1: punches before trying to run. Initially, she did get away,
Speaker 1: and she jumped over the barricade into the other side
Speaker 1: of the motorway, back into traffic, but police managed to
Speaker 1: get everything, you know, safe, so there's no oncoming traffic.
Speaker 1: They stopped traffic, okay, and they quickly followed her and
Speaker 1: tried to restrain her. However, it took six officers to
Speaker 1: finally restrain her, and she had to be sedated and
Speaker 1: tranquilized to finally get under control.
Speaker 2: WHOA Okay, before you say anything, I just got yes,
Speaker 2: I just got one more thing to add to it
Speaker 2: before we kind of discuss that.
Speaker 1: Officers remarked, the ones who were like restraining her, they
Speaker 1: re marked on her incredible strength and that she showed
Speaker 1: especially for someone who had just been hit by a
Speaker 1: car I mean technically not once, but twice, and many
Speaker 1: of them agreed that she must have had a drug
Speaker 1: or something in her system because it was unnatural and
Speaker 1: the only time they found the strength and someone before
Speaker 1: was when they were fucking high.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what I was literally going to say,
Speaker 2: Like they are there's either something that is like some
Speaker 2: family issue maybe that they're running from or something, or
Speaker 2: they are on like some serious drugs that is just
Speaker 2: making them make some interesting decisions. Let's say.
Speaker 1: Well, and there was a lot of theories regarding much
Speaker 1: of that, and we can talk about it a little
Speaker 1: bit at the end because there's some more information I
Speaker 1: want to input into that before we really dive into it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's no one who can really say definitively
Speaker 1: one way or another. Let's just put it that way
Speaker 1: for now. So the two sisters were taken to hospital
Speaker 1: for evaluation after this incident, and remarkably, despite everything they
Speaker 1: had been through, Sabina, the one who was initially hit
Speaker 1: and woke up after fifteen minutes, came out with only
Speaker 1: minor injuries.
Speaker 2: Like, is that the one that had her legs run over? Sorry?
Speaker 1: No, no, okay, Ursula okay, okay, Ursula is in critical condition. Okay,
Speaker 1: being is the one who got up and fought and
Speaker 1: she was unconscious of right, but.
Speaker 2: She she like damaged someone's windshield and shit, like.
Speaker 1: The windshield was shattered though, like when like vehicle windows,
Speaker 1: they have a film that keeps them like in place,
Speaker 1: so they don't like break into a million pieces usually.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was like completely caved in and even
Speaker 1: part of the roof was carved in on this vehicle.
Speaker 2: So that, yeah, that is a heavy hit.
Speaker 1: Yes, so she would like the vehicle is probably going
Speaker 1: I'm assuming maybe sixty kilometers now or something like that.
Speaker 1: That's my estimate because the truck was going about eighty
Speaker 1: kilometers an hour hit someone and then so this vehicle
Speaker 1: would have been slowing down when her sister got hit,
Speaker 1: but it were very quick succession, so maybe let's degrade
Speaker 1: it by twenty kilometers, say sixty kilometers an hour. She
Speaker 1: got hit, okay at my estimation. Yeah, yeah, so Sabina, yeah,
Speaker 1: only had minor injuries and she was quickly released into
Speaker 1: police custody from medical care. Now, once in police care,
Speaker 1: Sabina's behavior took an even stranger turn. You'd expect someone
Speaker 1: to be shaken up after being hit by a vehicle
Speaker 1: and with witnessing her sister get hit and her legs
Speaker 1: crushed from under the truck, but Sabina seems eerily calm.
Speaker 1: She seemed very composed, and none of what had happened
Speaker 1: seemed to have phased her. In fact, she even showed
Speaker 1: no sign of concern for her sister whatsoever. And even
Speaker 1: like if you look back on that motorway when I
Speaker 1: said that, she looked at traffic when she ran out
Speaker 1: as well, she didn't follow her sister into traffic to
Speaker 1: help her. She followed suit and what her sister was doing.
Speaker 1: And even when she was hit, when she woke up,
Speaker 1: she may have shouted to her sister, tried to communicate
Speaker 1: with her, but she had no concern of her sister
Speaker 1: being injured, not whatsoever. Okay, wow, Yeah, So, after spending
Speaker 1: the weekend in police custody, Sabina appeared in court and
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to highway trespassing and assaulting a police officer.
Speaker 1: Her sentence was just one day in jail, which she
Speaker 1: had already served, so she was released immediately. Authorities deemed
Speaker 1: her to pose no risk to the public and so
Speaker 1: she was just right back out there.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the right decision.
Speaker 1: Well, I agree, because there was one glaring issue. At
Speaker 1: no point during her time in custody or at the hospital,
Speaker 1: Sabina did not undergo any sort of psychiatric evaluation, and
Speaker 1: despite this oversight, she was sent right back out into
Speaker 1: the world Oh dang so. Once released, Sabina began wandering
Speaker 1: the streets, reportedly trying to find out which hospital her
Speaker 1: sister had been admitted to. She carried a clear plastic
Speaker 1: bag still from the police station, which contained all her
Speaker 1: belongings at the time, and she kind of looked somewhat
Speaker 1: out of place roaming aimlessly, and it wasn't long before
Speaker 1: two local men noticed her. Glenn Hallings had a fifty
Speaker 1: eight or sorry fifty four year old welder and his
Speaker 1: friend Peter molloy. They spotted Sabina and approached her to
Speaker 1: see if she needed help and if she was okay.
Speaker 1: Sabina greeted them warmly, even crouched down to pat Glenn's
Speaker 1: dog as they were out for a walk with his dog,
Speaker 1: and she seemed friendly. She was approachable. However, Peter did
Speaker 1: later recall feeling a little bit uneasy. While was talkative
Speaker 1: and polite, she also appeared a bit jittery and nervous,
Speaker 1: which put him on edge and made him a bit
Speaker 1: nervous Okay.
Speaker 2: At first, I was like, oh, please, let these two
Speaker 2: men be good now.
Speaker 1: During their conversation, Sabina asked if they knew any nearby
Speaker 1: hotels or maybe some bed and breakfasts where she could
Speaker 1: find a place to stay for a night. Glenn, believing
Speaker 1: Sabina to be harmless and just down on her luck,
Speaker 1: maybe not having the money at the moment, or whatever
Speaker 1: it was, he decided he was going to lend a hand.
Speaker 1: He offered her a place to stay at his home
Speaker 1: on Duke Street.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Too far away, and he's thinking, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a nice thing and the right thing to do for someone.
Speaker 1: Sabina was grateful for Glenn's offer and quickly accepted his hospitality.
Speaker 1: Once at his home, she began to relax a little
Speaker 1: and explained she was looking for her sister in a hospital. However,
Speaker 1: her story was a bit vague. She didn't really provide
Speaker 1: much information or even clarity. I guess you could say
Speaker 1: on why her sister was in the hospital in the
Speaker 1: first place, but I mean, it's not there. Their placed
Speaker 1: to dig too much information, so Glenn didn't really ask.
Speaker 1: Inside Glenn's house, he offered her a drink and assured
Speaker 1: her that in the morning he'd helped her track down
Speaker 1: her sister.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Peter, who had joined them for the evening, later recalled
Speaker 1: that Sabina seemed calm that many moments. Her nervousness, though,
Speaker 1: did keep resurfacing. She frequently was looking out the window,
Speaker 1: almost like she was waiting for something or expecting something,
Speaker 1: leaving Peter to suspect she might have been fleeing an
Speaker 1: abusive relationship.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: As the evening went on, Sabina's behavior became increasingly strange.
Speaker 1: At one point, she offered both men cigarettes, only to
Speaker 1: snatch them back right out of their mouth, muttering they
Speaker 1: might be poisoned.
Speaker 2: Oh shit. Okay.
Speaker 1: Despite the odd tension in the air, Peter decided to
Speaker 1: head home just before the midnight, leaving Glenn and Sabina
Speaker 1: alone for the night, and from what he could gather,
Speaker 1: the two went to bed shortly afterwards, and everything seemed fine,
Speaker 1: though little odd.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, a little odd. I mean, what a nice person.
Speaker 2: There is just no way that I would be like
Speaker 2: offering this stranger a place to stay in my home.
Speaker 2: I would more so like, I think, pay for them
Speaker 2: to stay in like a hotel. Room or something. You know.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, now, Glenn clearly has a fucking heart of goal.
Speaker 1: In all honesty, he takes her in. He's going to
Speaker 1: help her find her sister.
Speaker 2: And like wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even the following day, Glenn spent the morning on
Speaker 1: the phone with his brother trying to locate the hospital
Speaker 1: where her sister Ursula might be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people like that are rare, they are.
Speaker 1: He even called around a few local hospitals in the
Speaker 1: hope of finding her, and everything seemed uneventful until later
Speaker 1: in the evening, at around seven forty pm. And that's
Speaker 1: when Glenn was in the middle of preparing dinner for
Speaker 1: the two of them. He realized he was out of
Speaker 1: tea bags, and being the friendly type, he stepped outside
Speaker 1: to ask his neighbor for some help. They had some
Speaker 1: tea bags. The neighbor happily handed him a few tea
Speaker 1: bags and watched as Glenn went back and returned to
Speaker 1: his home. It was less than a minute later that
Speaker 1: that peaceful evening turned into chaos. Glenn stumbled back out
Speaker 1: of his house, this time bloodied and gravely injured, shouting quote,
Speaker 1: she stabbed me.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay.
Speaker 1: And then he collapsed on the ground. His neighbor, who
Speaker 1: just gave him some tea bags, was horrified and immediately
Speaker 1: ran to the phone and called police. As Glenn lay motionless.
Speaker 2: Oh please tell me he's okay.
Speaker 1: As this was all happening, Sabina bolted from the house
Speaker 1: and fled the scene. Surveillance cameras caught her sprinting down
Speaker 1: the street clutching a bloodied hammer in her hand. The
Speaker 1: footage showed her periodically stopping to hit herself in the
Speaker 1: head with a hammer as she ran as well.
Speaker 2: What the shit?
Speaker 1: A passing driver witnessed this bizarre sight of a woman
Speaker 1: running down the road hitting herself in his head with
Speaker 1: a blunt object and tool, and then stopped. He managed
Speaker 1: to actually wrestle the hammer away from her to try
Speaker 1: and help her, but Sabina wasn't done. She pulled a
Speaker 1: broken roof tile from her pocket and struck the man
Speaker 1: on the head with it, stunning him just enough to
Speaker 1: make her escape. Paramedics and police arrived quickly and began
Speaker 1: searching for her. Sabina determined not to be caught easily.
Speaker 1: Like not to be caught easily. Sorry, I paused the
Speaker 1: wrong moment there. Determined not to be caught easily took
Speaker 1: off once again, prompting a frantic chase through the area.
Speaker 1: Sabina made her way to a bridge, and at this
Speaker 1: intersection she made a decision. The police were chasing her,
Speaker 1: and she looked over the edge. She climbed up on
Speaker 1: the railing and jumped off. Below her was a forty
Speaker 1: foot free fall to a highway below.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: When she hit the pavement, she shattered her ankles upon
Speaker 1: first impact, and also as a repercussion, she fractured her skull.
Speaker 1: Quickly rushed her to hospital. Tragically, Glenn Halling's head did
Speaker 1: not survive his injuries.
Speaker 3: Oh seriously, hey, the wounds inflicted during the attack caused
Speaker 3: severe blood loss, and when he collapsed outside his home,
Speaker 3: he succumbed on the spot.
Speaker 2: So you have an actual, like I don't know, just
Speaker 2: like angel, human being and they they just die like that.
Speaker 1: Yep, she killed them.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. So she's like now a murderer then, yes
Speaker 2: she is? Yeah, and like her jumping from forty feet
Speaker 2: like she's still fucking alive currently. Yeah, this is just
Speaker 2: I don't know, this is just this is bizarre. I
Speaker 2: don't even know what to say. It's I'm just sitting
Speaker 2: here on the edge of my seat literally, yeap.
Speaker 1: And remember this is at least a day later when
Speaker 1: she's released from hospital.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so spent one night there and she was
Speaker 2: about to spend another before she killed Glenn or whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, she did spend another night at Glen's, and she
Speaker 1: was about to spend another, spent one in jail, went
Speaker 1: to court found she already served her time of one
Speaker 1: night was the least spent another at Glen's hour in
Speaker 1: the evening where she would be spending a potential.
Speaker 2: Third Okay, I see, So if.
Speaker 1: There's any drugs in her system, it ain't there now.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, unless who knows, so unless she has them
Speaker 2: somewhere and she's like repeatedly taking.
Speaker 1: Something potentially I did say earlier that they were clutching
Speaker 1: their purses and bags quite.
Speaker 2: Closely, right you did.
Speaker 1: Now. On June six, two thousand and eight, Sabina was
Speaker 1: officially arrested while still recovering in hospital. She did survive.
Speaker 2: How there's shit did she survive? I know that is
Speaker 2: unfathomable to me, and what fathomable? There you go, But
Speaker 2: someone would jump from forty feet like I was thinking,
Speaker 2: maybe if it was water, maybe, but like a fucking.
Speaker 1: Like concrete, concrete, the.
Speaker 2: Actual shit or she made what is she made of?
Speaker 2: Like she doesn't seem human.
Speaker 1: I know. Two months later, on September eleventh, two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, she was discharged in a wheelchair and immediately
Speaker 1: taken into police custody to face charges of the murder
Speaker 1: that she had committed.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Ursula, who had been recovering in the hospital as well,
Speaker 1: was released around the same time. She returned to Sweden
Speaker 1: and later resumed her life in the United States. Sabina,
Speaker 1: her trial faced significant delays. You look confused.
Speaker 2: I'm like confused by these fucking names a little bit.
Speaker 2: Sabina story is the one that had like the family
Speaker 2: in Ireland and shit.
Speaker 1: Right correct? Okay, So Ursula did nothing more than run
Speaker 1: into traffic, hit by a.
Speaker 2: Truck and she she okay, but she choster like followed
Speaker 2: her afterwards though, right correct?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So Ursula was the one who got hit
Speaker 1: by the truck, run over and her legs crushed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Sabina was the one who got hit by a car
Speaker 1: and just got up, started fighting fucking pa and murdered someone.
Speaker 2: Okay, So she is sorry going back to the United
Speaker 2: States now, uh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah now. Sabina's trial faced significant delays. Initially, it was
Speaker 1: scheduled for February of two thousand and nine, it was
Speaker 1: postponed until September of that year due to difficulties obtaining
Speaker 1: her medical records from the Swedish doctors, who cited privacy laws. However,
Speaker 1: they did get the information they needed, and when the
Speaker 1: trial did finally begin, Sabina maintained an unsettling silence in court.
Speaker 1: She refused to explain or justify her actions whatsoever, nor
Speaker 1: did she respond to any questions during police interrogations or
Speaker 1: cross examination. Adding to the oddities, toxicology reports revealed that
Speaker 1: neither Sabina nor Ursula had any drugs or substances in
Speaker 1: their system at the time. They were clean huh okay. Surprisingly,
Speaker 1: the court never presented the footage of the sisters running
Speaker 1: into oncoming tra in the court, an event that could
Speaker 1: have provided valuable context for Sabina's mental state, which, as
Speaker 1: I mentioned, that footage is very well, very well documented
Speaker 1: because they had a camera crew, a literal camera crew,
Speaker 1: following them. It's not like we're talking about CCTV footage,
Speaker 1: not bodycam footage. You have a camera crew on site
Speaker 1: filming this fucking happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now. During the trial, her defense argued that Sabina was
Speaker 1: experiencing a rare and severe mental health episode at the
Speaker 1: time of the attack because she is in court for
Speaker 1: this murder. Remember, They claimed she was a secondary victim
Speaker 1: of fully a do, which is shared psychosis. So fully
Speaker 1: ado is a rare condition that occurs when two closely
Speaker 1: connected individuals, like twins for example, shared delusional beliefs or behaviors. Basically,
Speaker 1: they feed off each other almost in a delusion state.
Speaker 1: The defense contended that Ursula was the primary sufferer of
Speaker 1: this disorder and that Sabina was influenced by her sister's
Speaker 1: presence or perceived presence and developed similar psychosis. So when
Speaker 1: Ursula came to visit, huh, she was in a psychosis
Speaker 1: sort of state. And then Sabina then almost like a
Speaker 1: sympathetic in a way or like what's that when you
Speaker 1: can feel someone's emotions or something like the path, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like an mpath She sort of like almost absorbed that
Speaker 1: same sort of psychosis because of their close bond, and
Speaker 1: then she was also induced into the same sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of that before.
Speaker 1: It's a legit thing, huh.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: They further suggested that Sabina had been experiencing auditory hallucinations
Speaker 1: at the time of the murder. The judge accepted the
Speaker 1: defense's argument, determining that Sabina's culpability was diminishing actually due
Speaker 1: to her fragile state. Her fragile mental state. On September
Speaker 1: TEWOD two thousand and nine, Sabina pleaded guilty to manslaughter
Speaker 1: with diminishing responsibility. So, manslaughter with diminishing sorry, diminished responsibility
Speaker 1: is a legal concept in jurisdictions like England that reduces
Speaker 1: a murder charge when the defendant can demonstrate that their
Speaker 1: mental state was impaired and basically it impaired their ability
Speaker 1: to understand or control their actions, Okay, basically saying that
Speaker 1: like I was fucking hallucinating, like I was.
Speaker 2: So free that it wasn't in my right mind kind
Speaker 2: of basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it goes now from murder to manslaughter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So she was sentenced to five years in prison. That's it, Hey,
Speaker 1: five years in prison.
Speaker 2: For like murdering the kindest of souls.
Speaker 1: I know. Now she did become eligible for parole after
Speaker 1: serving just four hundred and thirty nine days.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1: To Time Serve. During the investigation, details about her release
Speaker 1: and current whereabouts remained private, but it's believed that Sabina
Speaker 1: was freed in twenty and eleven.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah is that it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Pretty much?
Speaker 2: What the actual hell?
Speaker 1: That's it?
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense this case.
Speaker 1: I have one more little paragraph I want to read here,
Speaker 1: and that's it.
Speaker 2: What the shit.
Speaker 1: So, the devastating loss of Glenn Hollingshead, a kind man
Speaker 1: who extended a hand to someone he thought was in need,
Speaker 1: which definitely was someone in need, left a lasting void
Speaker 1: for his family and friends. Sabina's sentence, while reflective of
Speaker 1: her mental health struggles, likely brought little solace to those
Speaker 1: mourning his death. I can only hope that upon regaining
Speaker 1: clarity and mind and freedom, she found a way to
Speaker 1: reckon with any sort of consequences of her actions, and
Speaker 1: that she went and paid respects to the life that
Speaker 1: she tragically took during her psychosis state. So I hope
Speaker 1: that when she was really least, the first thing she
Speaker 1: did was pay her respects, because Glenn deserved that she
Speaker 1: owed that least.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is like, this is why people like
Speaker 2: I was just like, wow, people don't do that, like
Speaker 2: help people in that way. And this is why.
Speaker 1: This is why. Yeah, because it's it's a risk. You
Speaker 1: can put yourself or your family or others in danger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not only is it for argument's sake, say that Sabina
Speaker 1: didn't hurt him. Okay, he offered her help. It was
Speaker 1: a great interaction, and she left say that she got
Speaker 1: out of this psychosis state and was living fine. What
Speaker 1: if a year down the road she doesn't, or what
Speaker 1: if a year down the road she goes back into
Speaker 1: this psychosis state and then all of a sudden, this
Speaker 1: fucking location pops into her mind and she fucking like
Speaker 1: I gotta get there. Then she goes and hurts him or.
Speaker 2: Something, or even like claim something happened, right that didn't
Speaker 2: actually happen.
Speaker 1: Exactly because it's psycho like she's having hallucinations, right, I
Speaker 1: mean auditory hallucinations, they claimed.
Speaker 2: But still, because I still often think of that case
Speaker 2: where like the neighbor just got like completely fucked. I
Speaker 2: don't know, I can't It was like a recent case
Speaker 2: where he was like charged with the killing of the
Speaker 2: girl and.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so people can like claim things too, right,
Speaker 2: and it's just like your their word against yours, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, that is the case the ericson twins. Now,
Speaker 1: the thing that I did want to talk about that
Speaker 1: I kind of brushed off a little earlier. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about at the end was the things of
Speaker 1: there being no drugs in their system. Was the fact
Speaker 1: that Sabina never said anything about there being troubles at
Speaker 1: home the husband. There's no troubles at home. Sure, arguments happen,
Speaker 1: Couples argue, we argue sometimes right, oh yeah, wow, you
Speaker 1: didn't have to be that enthusiastic. But yeah, people argue,
Speaker 1: there's nothing against that. And there was nothing found to
Speaker 1: say that there was anything wrong at home, there was
Speaker 1: anything about any sort of drug use, nothing, There was
Speaker 1: nothing found at all whatsoever. The only thing that we
Speaker 1: have is that they believe that there was this case
Speaker 1: of folio do.
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's kind of scary though, because now
Speaker 2: they're just like they're out there just living their life,
Speaker 2: you know, which I guess is great for them, but like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just seems so unstable that something
Speaker 2: could happen again, you know, like you almost wonder if
Speaker 2: they need help of sorts.
Speaker 1: Or I would imagine that there has been some help sought,
Speaker 1: at least on Sabina. I mean, Ursula didn't hurt anyone else,
Speaker 1: She hurt herself of course, So I would assume she's
Speaker 1: going to seek some help to maybe figure this out,
Speaker 1: whether it's medication or or learning or who knows what.
Speaker 1: I would assume she's going to search some because she's
Speaker 1: not going to want to fucking run into trafficking and
Speaker 1: crush her own legs and even put her sister at
Speaker 1: risk too.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure some of her injuries like have affected
Speaker 2: her life, going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So I'm going to assume that that Ursula
Speaker 1: would have figured some stuff out about this. As far
Speaker 1: as Sabina, I'm going to assume that she was forced
Speaker 1: to learn some stuff about this while in custody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean, she took a fucking man's life. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: If it was found this is what caused her to
Speaker 1: take someone's life, I'm pretty sure that the judicial system
Speaker 1: would force her to, you know, figure this shit out,
Speaker 1: going to care, whether it's psychiatric, whether it's medical, whether
Speaker 1: it's medication. Who knows. Uh, Yeah, they would force her
Speaker 1: to otherwise it wouldn't release her back into public. Otherwise
Speaker 1: it would just be solely on her and she would
Speaker 1: be found guilty of murder. So I do think that Sabina, yeah,
Speaker 1: was forced to learn about it, and I would as
Speaker 1: Ursula would learn about it as well, at least through
Speaker 1: her sister as well.
Speaker 2: Well. You wonder too if she went back to her family,
Speaker 2: you know, if she's just like living with her family again, yeah,
Speaker 2: her husband and the kids.
Speaker 1: Right, I don't know, Like I said, there's there's not
Speaker 1: much known about when she was released.
Speaker 2: Of course, like they want would want to like stay
Speaker 2: under the radar after all this shit and try to
Speaker 2: like regain their life. I guess from this really odd
Speaker 2: forty eight I don't know, sixty hours or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I don't really know how to digest
Speaker 1: this one. No shit, I don't blame these sisters whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. A fucking life was stolen here.
Speaker 1: You fucking killed someone. You didn't do it in your
Speaker 1: right mind. I get it. It's not like that case
Speaker 1: where there was a beheading on the bus member. We
Speaker 1: covered it like early on in this podcast. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the guy wasn't taking his medication, that was his own fun.
Speaker 1: This was just a psychosis that seemed to come out
Speaker 1: of nowhere. Yeah, yes, you killed someone. If it happens again,
Speaker 1: she is one hundred percent responsible because she didn't care
Speaker 1: for herself enough to prevent it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I still kind of feel I don't know.
Speaker 2: I struggle with that a bit because I still feel like, uh,
Speaker 2: I'm struggling because I feel I almost feel like more
Speaker 2: time needed to maybe be served for that. But then, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, like there was no history or anything of
Speaker 2: knowing that something like this could happen. Noh, gosh, I
Speaker 2: don't know. This is this is a hard one.
Speaker 1: It is a hard one. But you have to look
Speaker 1: at it from this perspective on what she was convicted of.
Speaker 1: If she's convicted of murder, five years is not enough.
Speaker 1: She's convicted not of murder, though she's convicted of manslaughter.
Speaker 1: You have to remember that it's manslaughter, which means she
Speaker 1: didn't do it intentionally. It's no different than losing control
Speaker 1: of a vehicle and crashing and killing.
Speaker 2: Someone, right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't under her control. She did do it,
Speaker 1: so it is five years sufficient for manslaughter. Technically speaking,
Speaker 1: I do believe it is. That doesn't mean she didn't
Speaker 1: take a life, and it doesn't mean she has a
Speaker 1: new responsibility to ensure that she looks after not doing
Speaker 1: it again.
Speaker 2: I mean she was she didn't actually really seem like
Speaker 2: she served that much time. But then, yeah, you can
Speaker 2: only hope that this something like this just never happens again.
Speaker 2: But yeah, even if it's different people or whatever, it
Speaker 2: seems like it is a heart like unpreventable. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I'm struggling with this one. Big.
Speaker 1: It's a tough one. Don't get me wrong. I because
Speaker 1: I understand the sympathy towards her, and I also understand
Speaker 1: the want for retribution and closure and fucking lock her
Speaker 1: up sort of attitude. I get it all.
Speaker 2: So it was Glenn, the one with the dog, Yes, Clinton,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the dog. The dog just lost their person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fucking angel of a person. Probably, so that
Speaker 1: was probably a angel of a dog too.
Speaker 2: Shit, Okay, I shouldn't have brought the dog up. Now,
Speaker 2: that is such a terrible way.
Speaker 1: To end this way to go kay. Well, on that note,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here. I'm curious in your response to
Speaker 1: this one if you have any thoughts on what you
Speaker 1: think should have happened as far as maybe a conviction
Speaker 1: or sentencing or maybe even going forward. How you know
Speaker 1: a judicial system should force someone to look after themselves
Speaker 1: in light of an incident like this happening. If you
Speaker 1: have some thoughts, some insight, some opinions, shoot us a message.
Speaker 1: We'd love to read it. We'd love to hear about it.
Speaker 1: If you want to check out more of our stuff,
Speaker 1: we have a description on this podcast filled with all
Speaker 1: of our links. We have our YouTube, our Facebook or
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Speaker 1: purchase some merch. You can go ahead and give us
Speaker 1: a review. All of these things really help the show.
Speaker 1: We are an indie podcast, produced, hosted, researched by ourselves,
Speaker 1: so there is no big person puppeteering us with strings.
Speaker 1: It's us two, that's it.
Speaker 2: But we like to do that to ourselves, don't we.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we kind of puppeteer each other, I guess maybe,
Speaker 1: but yeah, thank you for being here. It means the world.
Speaker 2: And until next time, stay wicked,