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Sign up now at Chumba Casino dot 51 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:03.480 Com don't. 52 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.159 Work as necessary daily by lost in terms conditions eighteen plus. 53 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.080 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 54 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.199 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 55 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:29.560 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 56 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:33.240 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 57 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 58 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.800 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 59 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:57.400 Good evening. Warning, This book contains several crime scene photos 60 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.719 that are graphic in nature and maybe very disturbing to 61 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.840 some people. Do not proceed if under the age of 62 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.319 eighteen or are disturbed by scenes of death and violence. 63 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:12.919 One after another, young women disappeared without a trace in 64 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:17.719 the night. One by one, their brutalized bodies turned up. 65 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:24.800 The macabre crime scenes suggested they share the same cruel fate. Abducted, 66 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.840 bound and raped, All fell prey to an unknown killer. 67 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:34.599 All became the victims of a deadly deception. The book 68 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:39.360 that we're featuring this evening is Deadly Deception, True story 69 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:43.400 of Tampa serial killer Bobby Joe Long special guest nalists 70 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:45.199 and author J. T. Hunter. 71 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:49.719 JT. 72 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.240 Hunter is not connected as of yet we contacted or 73 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:59.080 spoke this morning, so I'm sure he is just a 74 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:03.319 moment late connecting to the program. I'll just set the 75 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:05.520 stage here that we were going to be talking about 76 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:13.400 May thirteenth, nineteen eighty four, Mother's Day in a Hillsboro 77 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:19.720 County Sheriff Department and a Lieutenant Gary Terry thirteen years 78 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:20.279 on the force. 79 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:21.560 Here we go. 80 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.839 Welcome to the program, journalist and author JT. Hunter. 81 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:32.519 Thanks happing to be here. 82 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:38.040 Thank you very much. Yes, I just introduced it. We 83 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:42.560 set the stage in Hillbury, Hillsborough County and the sheriff 84 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:48.319 Department and Lieutenant Gary Terry. So tell us what call 85 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:53.680 he gets and what he sets off on this incredible 86 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.720 journey here with Bobby Joe Long. So, tell us about 87 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:01.000 this first phone call and what it contains he is 88 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:06.560 told on the phone that day, May thirteenth. 89 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.480 Okay, well, yeah, he got a call that the body 90 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.199 of a young Oriental female then found by a couple 91 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:18.120 of teenage boys in a remote area in a Tampa 92 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.279 suburb there in Hillsboro County. 93 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.279 And he responded out there, you know, and of course 94 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:26.759 it'd being but the timing of it it being on 95 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:31.920 Mother's Day, you know, kind of got a reaction from 96 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.680 him initially to have to respond to such a thing 97 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:39.160 on a day like that. So he responded out there 98 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:43.600 to the scene and you know, found the victim out there. 99 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:53.079 Now you talk about what they this woman is found 100 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:58.199 in this at this crime scene here, and you describe 101 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.759 and you include it as we've did in the warning. 102 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.199 You include these crime scene photos. So tell us what 103 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:10.199 the nature of the what they find at the crime 104 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:15.639 scene in terms of her condition, and as you describe, 105 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.000 please tell us what they find in that. As you say, 106 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:24.480 it's burnt into Lieutenant Terry's memory, So tell us what 107 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:26.120 he sees and witnesses. 108 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.000 Well, the victim, the victim was bound, her hands were 109 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:39.000 bound behind her, behind her back, and she was face down. 110 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:44.040 She was nude, fully fully nuge. And what had really 111 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:50.519 left a really lasting impression Terry was the way that 112 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.360 her body had been positioned. Her legs had been purposely 113 00:06:56.600 --> 00:07:03.680 spread wide, you know, in order to shock whoever found 114 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.879 the body ostensively, and it certainly did shock Terry and 115 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:13.319 the rest of the officers that that that were there 116 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.680 at the scene. Terry had said, you know, made a 117 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:19.879 comment that he'd never seen a body displayed in that 118 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:23.399 that way before a scene before and it really really 119 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.600 frightened him to think, you know, who would have done 120 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:33.079 this and you know, been been so evil essentially to 121 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.439 pose a body like this, you know, let alone murdering 122 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:39.920 this victim, but then to leave her body in the state, 123 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:42.839 you know, on top of it. And you know, and 124 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:44.759 it was pretty gruesome too because the body had been 125 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.000 there for a while, so there was maggots crawling around 126 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:51.279 on her and flies and all that, you know, on 127 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:54.120 top of it. So it was a it was a 128 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.199 gruesome discovery. And you know, as you said, as you mentioned, 129 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.399 there's there are some crime scene photos of them as 130 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.079 well as the other victims in the book as well, 131 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.319 and they are, you know, some of them are pretty 132 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:07.600 pretty graphic, pretty disturbing. 133 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.560 Now you just talk about the newspaper coverage May fifteenth, 134 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:18.360 investigators are lacking for clues in girls' death, but they 135 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:20.560 do have the description five foot two and eighty eight 136 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.040 pounds and long black hair. Then, but you say through 137 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:27.920 fingerprints they a couple days later they have her as 138 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:32.840 identified as and again Lana Long, twenty year old dancer 139 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:38.039 at the Sly Fox Strip club in so anyway, she 140 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:42.200 is originally from Los Angeles and she's just recently in Florida. 141 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.679 You talk about what the emmy concludes, what did he 142 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:51.240 find out from the medical examiner, what's his conclusion, And 143 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.480 then before we talk about just a couple of weeks 144 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:58.720 later and the next corpse found. 145 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.799 Well, you said, yeah, they did determine through fingerprin analysis 146 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:09.440 it was lan Along and she had Laspan seen a 147 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.759 wife leaving her apartment complex near the University of South 148 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:19.039 Florida May eleventh, so a few days earlier, and the 149 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:23.919 medical examiner concluded she'd been killed by strangulation. It was 150 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:27.879 pretty evident upon examination of the body that she'd been 151 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:28.679 strangled to death. 152 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.720 Now, while police are still gathering evidence, obviously not too 153 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.480 many leads and obviously don't have any concrete suspects whatsoever. 154 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:41.320 It's May twenty seventh, nineteen eighty four, as you write, 155 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.120 a two weeks later, another nude corpse turns up in 156 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:50.600 Tampa Bay area, and again Lieutenant Terry arrives at the scene. 157 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:56.559 So what's different about this crime scene and this murder 158 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:58.000 in particular. 159 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:04.159 Well, there is a difference, there's similarities and differences, and 160 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:09.240 the similarity of this one like the prior victim, this 161 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.279 victim's hands i'd both been tied behind her back by 162 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:18.840 a similar type of clothes line rope I was described. 163 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.000 But in addition, there was stab wounds on this second 164 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:30.639 victim to her neck so severely that her neck had 165 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.360 her head had almost been decapitated, the slash was so 166 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.799 deep on it. And she also had blunt trauma injuries 167 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.080 to her head as well. So a little more violent 168 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:47.279 ending for the second victim. 169 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.720 Right now, you say, three weeks later, there's pass without 170 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:55.720 any new bodies, and they're still working this investigation. Obviously. 171 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.879 You talk about June twenty fourth and a man named 172 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.360 Ronnie Barnes, he's working at an orange grove and pleasant grove. 173 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:12.399 Tell us what he discovers and about our next victim. 174 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:16.799 Yeah, so this third victim, Yeah, this this Ronnie Barnes 175 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.279 was was working an orange grove out there, another rural 176 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:23.919 area around the Tampa area there, and as he was 177 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.960 mowing in and out of the trees there, he noticed 178 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:32.080 a you know, a strong odor, kind of a rotten 179 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:36.399 meat kind of smell, and it got worse the closer 180 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.879 he approached a tree, so he got off the moor. 181 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.559 He had there to take a look at it, and 182 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:47.559 he found another body. This one was was pretty badly 183 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:54.080 decomposed one virtually almost mummified, and uh, you know, obviously 184 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.279 notified authorities as soon as he found. 185 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:02.519 That, he tuk the dcomp so advanced that she weighed 186 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.960 an actual only twenty five pounds. 187 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:10.360 Yeah, so she had been definitely been out there for 188 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:14.840 a while. Guestimated time of death or a week to 189 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.279 two weeks earlier, So she'd been there a while. And 190 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:23.399 you know, exposure to the Florida sun in the summertime 191 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.559 certainly can take its toll. 192 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.679 Now, what they find out about Elizabeth Loudenback is that 193 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.480 she's a factory worker, twenty two years old and live 194 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.679 with her parents in North Tampa. Was last seeing June eighth. 195 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:40.120 But she's not a prostitutor dancer. And you also say 196 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.679 there's no ligatures found, but there are tell us what 197 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:46.960 other things in common with the other two crimes, and 198 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:51.840 are the other two crimes quickly linked and what do 199 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.240 they and can they link? And how do they link 200 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.720 this third murder with those two? 201 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.360 Yeah, so they're investigators and crime scene technicians were able 202 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:08.919 to recover some red fibers at the scene for this 203 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:15.840 third victim, and uh, subsequently these were matched and it 204 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.039 was determined that they these red fibers had to come 205 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:21.960 from the same source, come from the same place as 206 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.600 fibers that were found at the line along crime scene 207 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.120 the first victim and then the second victim as well, 208 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.759 who was Michelle Simms. So they were they had the 209 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.440 commonality of these red fibers at all three of these 210 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.480 crime scenes. So it was obvious, you know, at this 211 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.120 point to to Gary Terry and his group there, his 212 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:47.120 group of investigators that you know, these these three were 213 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:52.120 certainly linked and uh, you know, they had they had 214 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.679 a serial killing on their hands. 215 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.480 They talk about before they can really do anything, and 216 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.960 we'll talk about soon they contact the FBI, but before 217 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:09.279 that even happens, you say, near in another county, Pascal 218 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:15.240 County line, you talk about another person has found an 219 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:19.240 eighteen year old named Channel Williams. Tell us about how 220 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:24.240 they find her and what if any similarities and like 221 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:27.759 you said, the differences regarding this murder. 222 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:33.279 Well, like the other three, this fourth one was the 223 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:36.679 body was you know in a remote area actually at 224 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:41.960 the entrance of a cattle ranch, and there were similar 225 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.679 things at the crime scene, you know, the primary one 226 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:50.720 being these red fibers turning up again. You know, there 227 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:54.399 was a difference in this dictum that the victim actually 228 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.000 had a gunshot wound to her neck and head, unlike 229 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.159 the prior three victims. So a little bit of difference 230 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:06.840 in the murders the cause of death in the four victims, 231 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.960 but a lot of other things in common, including you know, 232 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.200 the binding of the hands and the red fibers and 233 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.399 these sorts of things. So certainly things linking them all together, 234 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:19.679 you say. 235 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:25.600 Soon after, in September, Lieutenant Terry requests a criminal personality 236 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:30.320 profile from the FBI, and Special Agent Stanley Jacobson is 237 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.200 prepares a profile. So tell us what they look at 238 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:38.080 they looked at, pardon me, and what they concluded at 239 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.799 least for this preliminary profile to help and assist police 240 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:44.759 to find the serial killer. 241 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.440 Yeah, the FBI profile, and folks there you mentioned special 242 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:52.720 Agent Jacobson, he was kind of took the weed on it, 243 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:55.639 but so he and his group they looked at, you know, 244 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.159 the crime scene photos obviously to see the common ways 245 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.799 the bodies had been and left and things that were 246 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.679 found there. And they reviewed those and forensic evidets found 247 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.799 at the scenes. They also interviewed Garry Terry and the 248 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:15.559 other pomicide detectives involved in the investigations, and they took 249 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.679 all that information and then of course integrated it with 250 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:24.879 their experience and other cases with other killers to come 251 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:33.320 up with their profile of the likely likely killer. And 252 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.639 so you know, they obviously they generated the psychological profile 253 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.600 in the hopes of aiding Terry and his men and 254 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.759 trying to figure out who was doing these killings. 255 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.759 Now again, they don't have much time to wait and 256 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.480 to talk about October fourteenth, two weeks after Channel Williams's discovery, 257 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:58.039 another woman, Karen Dinspring Dinsframe Friend, twenty eight years old, 258 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.879 another Orange grove on the east side of in the 259 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.440 same almost in the same area she was last seen 260 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.640 October fourteenth, working at the area of Nebraska and Hillsboro. Again, 261 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:14.759 tell us what they found there that was common and 262 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.720 what is the reaction from police and you, as you're 263 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:22.000 right about, what is the reaction in the community in 264 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:23.680 terms of panic. 265 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:32.000 Well, like the prior, Like these prior victims, Karen, Karen's 266 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.359 body had clear evidence of having been bound. Her her 267 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:44.200 hands and feet had visible literature marks as well as 268 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.079 her neck, so she had been bound very similarly to 269 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.960 the prior victims. And these red fibers, again, this is 270 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.160 the big closest thing they have, I guess to a 271 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.880 smoking gun at this point. Is these red fibers, those 272 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.680 common element, this common thread, matching the the all the 273 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.480 prior killings as well. And so sure enough, you know, 274 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.160 the subsequent analysis by the FBI labs confirms that these 275 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.319 red fibers are all coming from the same same place. 276 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:19.240 They're all originating the same the same source. So of 277 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:21.599 course if they can never figure out what the source is, 278 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:24.160 this will go a long way to to you know, 279 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.880 conclusively linking all these all these murders. And you know, 280 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:33.640 as you can imagine, finding these kind of bodies pretty 281 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:39.200 close in time together, these similar circumstances of the killings, UH, 282 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.200 certainly raised alarm in the in the Tampa area around there. 283 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.279 A lot of people started getting really nervous and and worried. 284 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.079 You know, obviously there's somebody out there that's up, you know, 285 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:57.720 up to up to evil things, and nobody really had 286 00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:59.839 any clue at this point who it could be, so 287 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.319 anybody who was a potential killer. So a lot of 288 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.680 people were looking over their shoulders, being being careful and 289 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.720 hoping that they weren't the next victim. 290 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.960 And yet it's not too long after you talk about 291 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.480 Halloween Eve, October thirtieth, nineteen eighty four, two hundred feet 292 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:26.119 from the Pasco Hillsborough County line. She's ideed many weeks later. 293 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.240 But this is Kimberly Hops twenty two year old, last 294 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.880 seeing October fourth, and police are frustrated. And now you 295 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.119 could say there's a good reason for people to be afraid, 296 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:40.079 because even though this is in the eighties, this is 297 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.440 an era that's already passed where we've had some infamous people. 298 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.400 And you introduce somebody there's an incredible story where somebody 299 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.359 offers their services. So tell us about what police are. 300 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.079 You say that they're frustrated, but then somebody offers their services. 301 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:56.559 Tell us who that would be? 302 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.559 Well, yeah, familiar, familiar name. As you mentioned, they're probably 303 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.160 one to be the most infamous serial killer in our country. 304 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.680 Ted Bundy had offered his services. He had heard about 305 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:14.000 the killings and went so far as to send a 306 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.519 letter to the sheriff they're in Hillsborough County offering to 307 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.000 help out in the case and making some suggestions including, 308 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.160 you know, to watch the areas where the bodies have 309 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:29.079 been found to see if the killer came back to 310 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:34.839 relive the experience, or you know, even more ghastly maybe too, 311 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.039 you know, to try to do something with the bodies 312 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.480 there as well, as Bundy himself was known to have done. 313 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:48.319 So he offered that suggestion, and uh, you know, probably 314 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.599 with not much else to go on, I'm sure the 315 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:54.039 investigators were tempted to try to go down that path, 316 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.480 but they didn't. They didn't end up ever finalizing any 317 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:02.160 sort of arrangement to enlist on these help but certainly 318 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:04.759 interesting possibility there. 319 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.599 You do say that what they do though is maybe 320 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.920 it's not from bundy suggestion, but they say, because there's 321 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.000 so many victims that have been seen around the Nebraska Avenue, 322 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:20.480 which is the Red Light District or part of it. Anyway, 323 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.359 he assigned a special unit to conduct knight surveillance in 324 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.680 what you call the killer's hunting ground. And yet still 325 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.039 no soli Elite. 326 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:37.920 Yeah, nothing to that point. They were still basically chasing 327 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:39.960 a phantom at that point. 328 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.079 Now again, not too much long longer after this that 329 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:51.240 you have November fourth and someone's a teenage girls abducted 330 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.240 on their way home from work. Tell us about what 331 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:59.759 happens here, because this person gets to tell the tale. 332 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.200 Yeah, this turned out to be a big break in 333 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:07.640 the case. And it was early November second November second. 334 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.559 This teenage girl, the seventeen year old girl. Her name 335 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:17.000 was Lisa McVeigh. She had finished up working her night shift, 336 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:22.640 her late shift the Donut Place there in Tampa, and 337 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.720 she was on her way home. She rode her bike 338 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.519 to work and rode her bike back home at night, 339 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:33.640 and she was peddling her bike back home from work 340 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:39.039 and ended up having someone jump out from behind a 341 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.960 parked van and knocking her off her bike and grabbing 342 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:48.000 her and taking her, dragging her across the street and 343 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:54.680 putting her in another parked vehicle and abducting her. And 344 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:58.839 this this this man had a gun and warned her 345 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:02.119 when he grabbed her not to scream or he would 346 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:07.039 blow her brains out, and she believed him. And he 347 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:09.559 order her to keep her eyes closed so she couldn't 348 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:12.920 see who he was, so she never saw his face, 349 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.839 but he did force her into his car, and she 350 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:23.319 was very much afraid that she was going to be killed. 351 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.000 So she decided what she would do is just go 352 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.000 along with whatever he said and try to, you know, 353 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:32.680 try not to make him mad or anger him. And 354 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.720 so when when he ordered her the strip, he did, 355 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:41.440 she did it. And he ordered her to do sexual 356 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:48.000 things for him. She complied. And so after after getting 357 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.359 her in the car and doing these things, he drove 358 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.200 off with her in the car and ended up taking 359 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:03.440 her back to his residence, eventually took her in there 360 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.559 and all the while kept her either make sure her 361 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.640 eyes were closed or blindfolded her at various times as well. 362 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.279 And you know, they parked, parked the car and got out, 363 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.640 and he told her that they were at an office building. 364 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:19.160 They're going to get out go inside of it. He 365 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.680 let her out of the car through the parking lot, 366 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.240 up through an entrance way, and up some stairs and 367 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:32.960 into into a room and ended up keeping her there. 368 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:41.880 And she described the the ordeal as a very kind 369 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:48.720 of strange ordeal because the subductor went from kind of 370 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.039 back and forth on his his attitude and his mood 371 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.640 and the way he treated her. You know, at times 372 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:59.160 he was very gruff with her and very rough, and 373 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:02.200 then you suddenly he could change his demeanor and be 374 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:11.599 very kind and you know, very carrying almost towards her. 375 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:17.640 Yeah, you're read's fascinating because it really gets inside likely 376 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.960 the behavior he had with every one of these women 377 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.759 except for this reason. And you do say one of 378 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:28.559 the reasons why he says later she really does have this. 379 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.480 She really decides to have a strategy to cooperate so 380 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.519 that she can survive. So she's talking to him. She 381 00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:38.920 even talks about her own family, her own father in 382 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.720 the conversation at some point. But you talk about how 383 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:46.759 he has after he's sodomized her, basically taking her into 384 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:50.480 the shower and gently washing her and then blow drying 385 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:54.279 her hair and telling her she has pretty hair, and 386 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:57.279 removing the blindfold for a little while. So, yeah, it's 387 00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:01.480 an incredible one hundred and eighty degree difference from where 388 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.160 he starts and where he thinks he somehow had a 389 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:10.599 relationship with this woman. So she really does psychologically play 390 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.880 into whatever she thinks he might really want and really 391 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.119 for her own survival. She's very very clever in this regard, 392 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.480 isn't she. 393 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.519 Yeah, that's exactly as you say. That's really what was 394 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:28.400 pointed to later as to why she survived this encounter, 395 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:34.000 whereas the prior women had not been able to. You know, 396 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:39.640 she she really did. Uh, she really did keep her 397 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.440 keep her head about her during all this, and I 398 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.200 was able to survive it. 399 00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:48.759 Yeah, there's a couple of times he kind of tests 400 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:50.680 her because he goes to an ATM, he goes to 401 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.839