WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:10.640 It's the Opperman Report. 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:15.080 Join Digital Forensic Investigator and PI at Opperman for an 3 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:19.760 in depth discussion of conspiracy theories, strategy of New World 4 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:24.359 Order resistance, hi profile court cases in the news, and 5 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.920 interviews with expert guests and authors on these topics and more. 6 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:35.960 It's the Opperman Report, and now here is investigator at Opperman. 7 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:44.960 Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private 8 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.719 investigator at Opperman. I'm the president of Opperman Investigations and 9 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:50.880 Digital Forensic Consulting and you can find a link to 10 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.439 my work at email revealer dot com. Get a copy 11 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:55.560 of my book there as well. 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Okay, this is a 23 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.120 show that has been in the making for years. I 24 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:34.120 contacted our guests, David Thibodeau. I was probably three years 25 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.799 ago because I had Clive Doyle on the show. These 26 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:40.400 are the guys who wore branch Davidians. They lived there 27 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.840 in the house, the compound they call it, in Waco, 28 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.879 where the FBI came and shot them up, held them 29 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.319 hostage for how many days? Forty days whatever, and then 30 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.120 then burned them alive. 31 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:53.400 You know. 32 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.040 And our friend David Thibodeau here is his book, is 33 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:01.200 Waco a Survivor's Story, And it's the subject of that 34 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:05.239 documentary series you're singing right now though, the mini series 35 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:07.599 on Paramountain Network about Waco. 36 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.840 This is the guy. This is the guy, David Thibbdau. David, 37 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:11.280 are you there? 38 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:13.520 Hey? How you doing? I am? 39 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:19.680 Thank you so much man. You know, besides Waco, who 40 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:20.599 is David Tibbadau. 41 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.479 If I just ran into you at a soccer game 42 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:24.759 or something like that or in a bar and say, hey, man, 43 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:25.639 who's David. 44 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.960 Tibbdeau, I'd need the guy up on the stage playing 45 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.960 the drums for whatever band was playing at that bar 46 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:31.439 that night. 47 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:33.879 Bro, you're a full time musician. 48 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:39.199 No, but I used to play three nights a week now, 49 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.680 which a couple a couple of Saturdays a month. And 50 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.360 as I get older, that's fine. Rock and roll is 51 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.240 a young man's game, man, And I still love to 52 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:48.919 do it. I still do it, but it just takes 53 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.479 a lot out of me now, No, I hear you. 54 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.560 I still love it. I'm still you know. It's it's 55 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.520 what you do. You've got to be crazy to be 56 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.719 a musician. I mean you've give it up all of 57 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:01.680 your weekends. It's you know, everyone thinks it's clear. It's 58 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:04.120 not glamorous at all. You're breaking down, you're setting up. 59 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:07.159 It's just it's it's actually a ridiculous profession. You got 60 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.080 to be a little crazy. I think it's a musician. 61 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:11.639 But if you are, you are you. It's something you love, 62 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:13.800 it's something you were born to do and you can't 63 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:14.919 help but you got to get it out. 64 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:16.280 So I hear you. 65 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.199 My cousins were in the Brett Michaels band, so really. 66 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:21.199 Yeah, oh yeah yeah yeah? 67 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:25.039 So uh I struggling musicians, man, even in the Bret 68 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.280 Michael's band. You know, struggling, breaking up, you know, breaking up, 69 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.560 setting up, putting down, you know, traveling different bars and stuff. 70 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.919 So, you know, anyway, and you live up in Maine. 71 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:36.439 Now you're married, you got kids. What's the story. 72 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:41.360 No, I'm not, I'm I'm okay, boy, Well you're putting 73 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:45.560 me on the fuck you I'm very I'm not that 74 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.719 great with relationships, and so I think it's just spearing 75 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:51.479 all the women out there. If I just remain single 76 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.319 and I'm a bachelor, I guess the lifelong bacheler. I've 77 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.360 never been able to really work it out. Of course, 78 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:58.479 you know, a lot of that was and I've touched 79 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.120 a lot of anger over the years, which I settle 80 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:03.960 that over quite a bit. But I got used to 81 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.199 being alone, and I'm just happier that way, I think. 82 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.680 Okay, I didn't mean to set you up. Now, what 83 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.159 about how old are you? 84 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.280 How old you'll find I'm an open book? 85 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:14.319 Yeah, yeah, how old are you? 86 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:16.759 I am forty nine? 87 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:18.600 Forty nine? Okay? Still young guy? Okay? 88 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:20.120 Really? 89 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.600 Oh yeah, well I'm fifty five. Man, it gets forty nine. 90 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:24.319 I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Yeah, 91 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:25.720 that's in the eye of the holder. 92 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:27.800 If that could be forty nine again, I'd do it 93 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:29.759 all over, change it. 94 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:31.959 All. 95 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:34.160 Right, listen, thank you so much for coming on the show, 96 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:36.560 especially now with all the attention you're getting from this 97 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.839 series now what has I'm. 98 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:41.759 Sorry it's taken so long, but I think that this 99 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.240 is a really good time now to actually be on 100 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.199 your show. And I got to say you have been 101 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.040 so good at working with me on the schedule and 102 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:51.920 getting me on the show that I just want to 103 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.639 say I appreciate it. I do apologize it taking me 104 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:55.839 this long to come on your show. 105 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:57.480 Don't worry about it, don't worry about I'm just I'm 106 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.639 happier alive. Let me tell you first of all, you know, 107 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.680 thank god for that. Now, how did you get involved 108 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.040 with the Branch Davidians down there in Texas? If you're 109 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.680 from Maine's what's how that happened? 110 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.439 Yeah, well it's a little different. My book tells the 111 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.160 story of what really happened in a place called wacoed 112 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:18.079 I actually called Waco's a Survivor's Story now. But that's 113 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:21.040 where it's a little bit different than the series. They've 114 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.000 changed some things around in the series, mostly because they 115 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.079 didn't want to have a California connection. There was none 116 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:29.279 time to put that in, so in the series, I 117 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:32.519 meet David in Texas at a show. In reality, I 118 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.360 met David and Steve Schneider at Guitar Center on Sunset 119 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.000 Boulevard and they were looking at one of the electronic 120 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.399 drum sets. I had gone into my drumsticks and they 121 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:43.800 asked me if I would play it for them so 122 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.480 they could hear, and I did. They handed me their 123 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.240 card and they said, we're looking for a drummer. If 124 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:51.399 you're interested, we love to jam with you. I'm Steve 125 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:54.759 Schneider on this guy's manager. This is David Gresh, you know. 126 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:56.800 And I saw the guy, David Kresh. Guy had a 127 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.759 T shirt on and the ripped jeans and he was 128 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.560 like being a guitarist or a musician. And then the 129 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:04.680 other guy had kind of a suit on, Steve Schneider 130 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:06.800 and he looked like you would be a business the 131 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.199 business guy. And I just thought that this guy had 132 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.199 his had his business manager with him. I thought that 133 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.439 was pretty cool. But then I looked at the card 134 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.879 and it said like Messiah has had said Cyrus Productions 135 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:21.399 on the front in the back had had a bunch 136 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:27.759 of religious scripture, Isaiah, Revelation, all these different you know, scriptures, 137 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:29.639 and I just handed them the card back. I said, 138 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.360 I'm really not looking to be in a Christian band. 139 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:35.240 Guy's thanks, but you know, it's not like thing. And 140 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:36.759 that just kind of said, you know, David kind of 141 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:38.160 said was a little bit all over the world, like 142 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.839 you know, Steve said that he was taught compared to religions. 143 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:44.480 They talked to people all over the world, and you know, 144 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.439 the Bible is a big part of it for them, 145 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.759 but they related and consider themselves Christian. You know, they 146 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:52.120 were more like between the Old Testament and the New 147 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.360 Testament and everything in between. Anyway, the way that the 148 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.879 describer was more like there was a study for them 149 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.240 and a religion, and that that's what kind of rest 150 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.680 upon me. Anyway. I honestly I left thinking I'm not 151 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:07.439 gonna call them. But about three days later I had 152 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.279 that card in my pocket and things weren't going so 153 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.199 great in my life or in my band. I said, 154 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.120 maybe those are the guys that I was supposed to meet, 155 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:17.439 and I gave him a call, and so, yeah, I 156 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.839 mean that's how I met them. And then Steve would 157 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.839 come over to my place in Hollywood and bring a 158 00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:24.879 few beers and we'd have a Bible study, which is 159 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.560 really odd for me and nothing I'd done before, but 160 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.199 I thought it to be very interesting. I mean when 161 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.639 he opened his Bible, he had one of those half 162 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:35.959 inch margin bibles, and every single page was color coded 163 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.199 with cross references, and that blew me away. I mean 164 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.600 it's like every page you looked at was filled with 165 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.839 reference material that he had done on his own. And 166 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.519 they could go through the scripture for Genesis to Revelations, 167 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:52.800 flipped the Isaiah and then go to Jeremiah and show 168 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.680 you a picture that every single prophet was talking. I'll say, 169 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.399 be it the Kingdom of God being set up on 170 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.040 the mountain zeon in the future, or you know, be 171 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.079 the Holy Spirit, the feminine aspect of God. There were 172 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.439 so many different subjects. They just they seemed to know 173 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.079 it all. Any question you had, they could go through 174 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.439 it and show you exactly what it said. And it 175 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.879 wasn't like they were excuse. It wasn't like it wasn't 176 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:20.160 the doctor Nation or they were telling you what to think. 177 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.079 It was like you were seeing what the book said 178 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.959 for the first time. Because I had read the scripture. 179 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.000 I had gone to stay to Sunday school. When I 180 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:33.000 was a kid, I watched the TV preachers and I 181 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.080 just I couldn't understand why people would send them money. 182 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.159 What Why don't people see through some of these people 183 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.000 on the television. It's obvious they're about money, They're not 184 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.399 really about doing good works. I don't know, I just 185 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.279 kind of I think I felt like I always saw 186 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:46.879 through it, and with these guys, I really couldn't. They 187 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.919 really took it seriously. 188 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:51.840 Okay, what faith they really wanted to know? What faith 189 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:52.480 were you brought up in? 190 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.600 Well? I was that tice Catholic and you know my 191 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:01.759 grandma that made me say my prayers and stuff like that, 192 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:04.240 But I wasn't really brought up in that. My mother 193 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:08.600 and my father both were just kind of, I don't know, 194 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.799 good people, but they definitely were not religion and they 195 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.799 didn't want to bring me up in religion. They wanted 196 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:16.399 me to be able to make my own decisions when 197 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.679 I was older without having that kind of albatross across 198 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.759 your neck of you know, choosing the religion of your 199 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:27.600 parents and kind of being closed minded to everything else 200 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.759 because that's how you were raised I thought that was 201 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:33.320 a pretty fair I'm pretty happy with them for that. 202 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.519 And what is your faith today? 203 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:43.919 Oh boy man, that's very complicated. It is. It's complicated 204 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:50.240 because I believe well, the Scripture is it's a fantastic 205 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.919 journey that I've been through with a scripture, genesis, revelation 206 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:58.519 being open, the revealing of the Seven Seals. I can't 207 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:03.120 diminish what I've seen. I can't diminish the experience I've 208 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.480 been through and how it relates to the Scripture and 209 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.759 how everything that happened during the fifty one days came 210 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.960 alive in the book. So that's always going to be 211 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.559 a part of me. But I don't limit myself to 212 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:17.600 just one way of thinking. I study a lot of 213 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:20.320 archaeology that's going on. I always want to see if 214 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.080 the findings in Israel are true or not, or they're 215 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.799 comparable to the book. It seems like there's a lot 216 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.440 of time chronologies that the book talks about that aren't 217 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.679 true or hasn't can't, or have not been proven yet 218 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:40.399 from archaeological studies. So I study that. I study some science, 219 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.519 a little bit of everything's Buddhism I highlight to touch 220 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.480 on different subjects. So it's hard for me to say. 221 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.039 It's really I kind of feel that, you know, we're 222 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.600 an energy and once we put off this mortal coil, 223 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:57.240 we go on to a higher energy power and we 224 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:00.080 all become a part of that. Like I said, and 225 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:02.279 it's kind of complicated, but I do believe that the 226 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:06.120 Scripture for me has cup alive and I'm never going 227 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:07.399 to be able to get over that ed. You know, 228 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.399 it's just something that's so I don't know, it's really harder, 229 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:14.639 it's just personal. It's hard to explain. But if you 230 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.240 could understand that David talked about what was going to 231 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.639 happen for the two years that I was there, and 232 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:23.120 then it happens, that's a pretty powerful thing for anybody. 233 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.480 To me. He was even more powerful about the faith 234 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.200 of the people that lived in Mount Carmel is when 235 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.360 you talk to the older people that knew David Kresh 236 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.360 when he was vernon when he first came onto the scene, 237 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.039 and he seemed to have a really good knowledge of scripture, 238 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.200 but he wasn't teaching the Seven Seals, and he kind 239 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:42.679 of stuttered, he was a little shy, and he was 240 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.120 a little awkward. And then this guy you know, he 241 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.799 starts teaching some classes here and there, but he's nothing spectacular. 242 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.600 Then he goes to Israel, and when he comes back 243 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:55.320 from Israel, he claims that he's had this vision. He 244 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.799 starts teaching the Seven Seals and he starts getting into 245 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:00.679 a depth of things that the old, older people that 246 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.200 have lived there for many, many years, they've been waiting 247 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.360 for this guy to come and reveal the Seventh Seals. 248 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.639 At Mount Carmel, it believed there were two or three 249 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.639 different prophets that were there before David Koresh came on 250 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.440 the scene, and they all had they're a little bit 251 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:15.600 of light here, a little bit like that, but they 252 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:17.279 all talked about one that would come and reveal the 253 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.399 Seven Seals. So when you're waiting for that for a 254 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.399 couple decades, like Climb or some of the older people, 255 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.799 and then here comes this guy and he starts revealing 256 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.679 the Seven Seals, I can only imagine how powerful that 257 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.559 is for those people. It's a powerful story me telling it. 258 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.519 And it's one of the reasons that I thought this 259 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.960 was maybe a truer religion is because these people claim 260 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.120 to actually have profits in their past and that here's 261 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.120 this guy that starts revealing the seventh sealed. So to me, 262 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:48.559 that's part of some of the most fascinating aspect of 263 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.120 Malcarmel and the people there is that they were waiting 264 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:53.639 for this guy to come. This guy shows up and 265 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:55.600 he shows you what's going to happen out of a book, 266 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.200 and then the FBI, the ATF attacks, and the FBI 267 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:03.080 take over comes what it is and everyone is basically 268 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.960 killed for what they believe in what that's pretty powerful. 269 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:12.519 Describe what was the doctrine of the Davidians, what did 270 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:13.000 they believe? 271 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:22.679 They got a couple of weeks. Honestly to get to 272 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.360 give your eye. I'll try to make it very simple, 273 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:27.960 and it's going to be hard because the first few 274 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.039 seals took two weeks to learn, two weeks of eight 275 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.840 hour studies every day to really understand what was going on. 276 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.080 So just if you're listening to my voice, if you 277 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.360 can try to kind of try to if you can, 278 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.039 just try to comprehend that a little bit, because I'm 279 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:47.320 going to oversimplify everything to an extreme. And basically, the 280 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.120 people know Carmel believe that they were the wave Sheath 281 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.440 and it talks about it talks about the wave sheath 282 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.759 the first of the first group. But there will be 283 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.480 a group of people, a strange people, a peculiar people 284 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:03.360 that'll be that'll have a message, the final message, for 285 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:08.399 the final message that God gives man before the Kingdom 286 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:11.120 of God is set up on the earth, and that 287 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.039 message is going to be very powerful and it's going 288 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:19.559 to be hated by mankind. There's several scriptures where God 289 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:23.080 talks about a stumbling block or for the people of 290 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.320 the earth, that God is going to create a stumbling block. 291 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:27.399 People are going to hear this truth, they're not going 292 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:32.120 to believe it, they're not gonna want it. And the government, 293 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:34.799 the powers that be you call it Babylon or the 294 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.639 King of the North, are going to go in and 295 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:38.879 they're going to basically wipe out the people that are 296 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:41.799 learning this the way. She's the first of the first 297 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:45.720 truth and they're learning these things. So when the kingdom 298 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:49.240 is set up and they that the one hundred and 299 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.679 forty four thousand, as it's talked about in the scripture, 300 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:56.200 A lot, but a lot of really religious people that 301 00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.159 I have said to run into all believes A lot 302 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:00.120 of people believe one hundred and forty four thousands, the 303 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:01.799 only people that could save them on the earth. That's 304 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.080 simply not true. The next line says, one hundred and 305 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.759 forty four thousand they come to the Kingdom of God 306 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.519 set up on the earth, and they learned from the lamb. 307 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:14.559 They learned something. And then they go out and they 308 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.080 gather the great multitude which no man can number. So 309 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.519 we find out, for the scripture, gods in the saving business, 310 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.799 and he basically wants these first the first fruit, gether 311 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:26.639 of the one hundred and forty four thousand who and 312 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.759 turn together the rest of the world and bring them 313 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.840 into the Kingdom of Heaven, if you will. So that's 314 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.360 basically in a nutshell who the people in mel Carmo 315 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.879 believed that they were that that first group that would 316 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.200 have to die for their testimony. Literally they would die 317 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.440 before everyone else under the fifth Seal, if you will, 318 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.399 and they would be attacked by the government, and then 319 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.720 after that the Kingdom of God at some point, and 320 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.960 there's no nobody knows the time or the days, but 321 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.240 God himself, no Navidian or none of the people that 322 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.399 I knew, will ever say this is going to happen 323 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.679 in twenty five years or thirty years or fifty years. 324 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.240 But if all this is true, the Kingdom of God 325 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.679 is to be set up on the earth, and then 326 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.559 everyone will have the chance at some point to go 327 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:18.120 and learn from God himself. So take that for a 328 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:19.279 brief little good. 329 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.759 It's very good. And you still believe today that the 330 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.440 Branch Davidians were that that group that was to be sacrificed, 331 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.759 and David prophesied correctly. 332 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:35.519 Well, I think I would. Yeah, I would be going 333 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:39.399 against I would be going against every grading in my body. 334 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:41.840 If not, then it's all for nothing. And those people 335 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:42.679 just died for nothing. 336 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.639 Gotcha, you know he has. 337 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:47.960 Like I said, if you were there for the weeks 338 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.279 and weeks of studies where you just really had your 339 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.639 mind blown and you can see it all come to life, 340 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.120 it's not as far as that's as you might think. It's. 341 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.559 It's still powerful to this day. I mean, I'm a 342 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:03.480 person that spends a lot of time reading everything I 343 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:08.039 can to either not to I won't say to disprove 344 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.599 God because I've always believed in the higher power. I'd 345 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.720 like to know how it really works. But at the 346 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.519 end of the day, no one really knows, you know. 347 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:20.319 I'm sure there's many Buddhists that are given powers because 348 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.240 of the intense meditation that they do, and they believe 349 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:25.599 that they have the right pass and they might. You know, 350 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.480 that's one of those mysteries you don't know until you 351 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.160 go to the other side. So it's all it's really 352 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.880 all speculation. But I know that I've had a very 353 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.559 powerful experience that that I can't deny. I'll put it 354 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:39.839 that way right now. 355 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.920 In day to day life there with the branch Davidians, 356 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.799 did you see miracles? Did you see prophesying of people 357 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.240 speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing? 358 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.559 Did you see? There was nothing like that at all. 359 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:53.400 It was all scripture. They're all I had to do 360 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.079 with what does the book really say? Actually? And the 361 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.799 really funny thing is there. I was just talking about 362 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:04.240 this other day to somebody who fronted me on Facebook 363 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.079 and we had a saying and Mount Carmel and that 364 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.359 the saying was don't go by your feelings. And that 365 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.039 used to annoying me to no end when they would say, 366 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:19.000 you know, when I'd be like said about something. Maybe 367 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.400 it was the food or the fact that I'm always 368 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.559 too hot or whatever. It could have been anything anything 369 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:29.799 that's you know, withering of the flesh right, And they'd 370 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.279 always say, don't go by your feelings and what that 371 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:35.319 even that's the feeling and everything's feeling when you're a 372 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.079 human being. What that basically means is what does the 373 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:39.720 word of God say? What does the book say? What 374 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.880 does the scripture say? That's why we're here. We're not 375 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:47.039 here because we have electricity or because we have air conditioning. 376 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:49.240 It's quite the opposite. We're living here in the middle 377 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.839 of nowhere on an ant hill because there's the fire 378 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.960 amps everywhere. I mean, you're always getting chewed up when 379 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.839 you went outside, you know, living very monastically for a reason, 380 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.920 and it's not for our comfort. It's because there's something here. 381 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:04.839 The Word of God is here, and we need to 382 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.279 figure out what it really says means, So don't go 383 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:13.720 by your feelings literally literally means what does the scripture say? Okay, 384 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.039 there quite complaining, you know what I mean. 385 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:20.160 You say that David Krush was a prophet, were there 386 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.559 other prophecies, like small prophecies that he would exhibit there 387 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.480 before you that we came true that besides this big one. 388 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.279 Sure, I mean, there were little things all the time 389 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.720 I mean, remember one, I've never seen a more serious 390 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.799 person in my life than David. He was very very 391 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.559 serious about about scripture and about what it said and 392 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:46.799 where we're going. And yeah, you joke once in a while, 393 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.240 but now he was one hundred percent real when it 394 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.599 came to when he came to God, when he came 395 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.319 to the Bible, how he taught it, how he perceived it. Okay, Fas, 396 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:01.839 what's your question again? 397 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.279 Were there other prophecies besides this big one where the 398 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:07.160 tanks showed up and burned the whole place down. 399 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:09.920 Well, there was a couple of things. I mean, what's 400 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.960 really funny is is I think it was right before 401 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:18.640