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Speaker 5: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Friends,
Speaker 5: many of us think of ourselves as nerds, as geeks,
Speaker 5: and for some there's a recent development. For others, we
Speaker 5: have been so since birth, and we love to talk
Speaker 5: about the things that geeks love, but we haven't really
Speaker 5: got a chance to step back and talk about how
Speaker 5: did we become geeks? Is this just part of who
Speaker 5: we are? Can you make yourself a geek? Well, I'm
Speaker 5: really honored today by saying our special guest is Mandy Caplan,
Speaker 5: a comedian, a musical theater performer and arranger of Cabareat
Speaker 5: Nights in Los Angeles, and who also has a podcast
Speaker 5: called make Me a Geek, in which she has been
Speaker 5: inviting people, including myself, on to kind of introduce her
Speaker 5: to different finds of favorite geek media, TV shows, video games, movies,
Speaker 5: all the rest. And I've so enjoyed getting to be
Speaker 5: on her podcast that I wanted her to come online
Speaker 5: and talk about this whole process she's been going through.
Speaker 5: So Matdie want you to start by saying hello and
Speaker 5: introducing yourself.
Speaker 6: Well, Hello, I am Mandy Caplan and my podcast is
Speaker 6: called make Me a Nerd Mating Nerdy. I hate to
Speaker 6: give you a demerit right off.
Speaker 5: I mean I'm I think generally, when I'm in, you know,
Speaker 5: in a you know, generally, when I'm introducing a host,
Speaker 5: I should probably introduced them properly.
Speaker 3: So yes, no demerit received.
Speaker 6: Okay, and someone keeping score, I imagine, here we go,
Speaker 6: here we go. But yeah, my deal is that I'm
Speaker 6: a mainstream mom. I love Taylor Swift, I love Housewives,
Speaker 6: I love fantasy football, and I have shied away from
Speaker 6: or been afraid of, dungeons and dragons and star both
Speaker 6: Trek and Wars and all of nerd culture. I've just
Speaker 6: kept my distance. And when I was turning fifty, I thought,
Speaker 6: there's a reason why everyone in my life loves this stuff,
Speaker 6: and I'm going to crack it. I'm going to figure
Speaker 6: it out, and I'm going to try these things I've
Speaker 6: never tried, which has led me down such exciting roads
Speaker 6: and discoveries of things I can really relate to. You
Speaker 6: have been such a successful guest. Well two out of
Speaker 6: three ain't bad. But we watched The Orville, which I loved,
Speaker 6: and The Penguin, which I absolutely worshiped. But you know,
Speaker 6: I'm realizing there's so much I love about all of
Speaker 6: this stuff, and some of it is a bridge too far,
Speaker 6: but you know.
Speaker 5: And I totally get that. I think it's really interesting
Speaker 5: had this conversation. I'm just a few years younger than you.
Speaker 5: I'm most forty eight, and you know, our generation, I think,
Speaker 5: grew up at a time when, like you know, if
Speaker 5: you read comic books, if you're really into Star Wars, like,
Speaker 5: there was a couple of kids at our school who
Speaker 5: were that. I was certainly one of those kids, and
Speaker 5: I got stuffed into lockers a lot that kind of
Speaker 5: thing metaphorically, not literally, but.
Speaker 6: There's still time. I mean, well, I'm kind of a
Speaker 6: large with all these demerits you're going to be getting.
Speaker 3: If they build a locker big enough, you're right in there.
Speaker 3: There you go, There you go.
Speaker 5: But like it's been fascinating to me, especially on some
Speaker 5: of my other podcasts, Star Wars Generations, especially getting talked,
Speaker 5: getting you talk to the folks who are growing up
Speaker 5: in a time where like reading comic books is cool,
Speaker 5: knowing comic books is cool. The MCU is, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the biggest movie franchises out there, with Star
Speaker 5: Wars a close second, and so it's been really interesting
Speaker 5: to me getting to hear, you know, from you as well,
Speaker 5: talking about, you know, approaching this at a different point
Speaker 5: in life instead of having grown up with it. And
Speaker 5: so let me just kind of start by asking you
Speaker 5: for you when you started this process, Like what did
Speaker 5: the word nerd mean to you? Like, what what do
Speaker 5: you have in mind when you thought I want to
Speaker 5: explore this world that I haven't poked my head into before.
Speaker 6: Well, I know this isn't popular amongst some nerds, but
Speaker 6: I love the Big Bang theory and I think it
Speaker 6: inspired a lot of this, and that's what I think
Speaker 6: of people who love not only playing a video game,
Speaker 6: but going to conventions for said video game and getting
Speaker 6: the comic books and wearing the T shirts and you know,
Speaker 6: doing cosplay. All of those things I saw as nerdy
Speaker 6: and Big Bang Theory made me think, but they look
Speaker 6: really fun and they look like ways to really bond
Speaker 6: with people and make lasting friendships, and I like people
Speaker 6: and friendships, so I think I was inspired by that.
Speaker 6: But I know that, for example, my sister is a
Speaker 6: huge nerd and she just hates the Big Bang Theory
Speaker 6: and takes just very imputing to her tellay, So I
Speaker 6: know there's that part I think.
Speaker 5: That I'm want to say, I'm definitely one of those
Speaker 5: who are not a fan of the show because I
Speaker 5: think it's it's often made by people who aren't geeks
Speaker 5: but who are kind of making fun of it.
Speaker 3: But I love that you're kind of like the exception
Speaker 3: there and that, like.
Speaker 5: You know, for you, you seem to really enjoyed getting in
Speaker 5: on the joke, because I do think there was a
Speaker 5: lot of celebration of those parts of the culture, even
Speaker 5: if often they're they're poking fun at it.
Speaker 3: In ways that I don't love.
Speaker 5: But so yeah, and I will get into more specifics
Speaker 5: in a bit. But now that you've kind of been
Speaker 5: on this journey for what has it been about a
Speaker 5: year since I started this podcast.
Speaker 6: Six months coming up on a year.
Speaker 3: What's been your experience with it so far?
Speaker 6: Tons of fun, tons of Uh, in a way, proud
Speaker 6: of myself for really trying things I would never have
Speaker 6: tried based on the description on Netflix sci Fi Fantasy,
Speaker 6: I'm out, Yeah, and just opening my mind and opening
Speaker 6: my heart and finding such fantastic shows and movies and
Speaker 6: books and yeah, I mean there are specific things I love,
Speaker 6: specific entities that I'm really drawn to, But moreover, I
Speaker 6: am an old dog and I'm learning new tricks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's great. I think that goes
Speaker 3: in all directions, you know.
Speaker 5: Or earlier we were talking about our shared love of
Speaker 5: cooking shows and you mentioned Taylor Swift, something that I've
Speaker 5: definitely probably rejected for far too long, in part because
Speaker 5: I had a sort of oh, commercialized pop music is bad,
Speaker 5: but also just some of you know, misogyny about female
Speaker 5: pop singers and the like, and the way society dismisses
Speaker 5: them and She's someone have come to love. My spouse
Speaker 5: has introduced me to one direction and the joy of
Speaker 5: the new generation of boy bands. Though I'll always be
Speaker 5: a Backstreet boy at heart, but I think there's something
Speaker 5: great about being willing to kind of branch out and
Speaker 5: explore new things, especially at this point in time right now,
Speaker 5: where you know. Part of why I think it's such
Speaker 5: an interesting question is I think if you ask a
Speaker 5: lot of people what is nerd media right now, You're
Speaker 5: gonna get a very broad answer, because, for example, just
Speaker 5: I think you recually did an episode on and Or
Speaker 5: right yep in Star Wars, And granted there's some debate
Speaker 5: about this right now, but within Star Wars, in the
Speaker 5: last year, we've had a spy drama which is and Or,
Speaker 5: which is very kind of intense, and we had Mandalorian,
Speaker 5: which is very like dark and gritty and cynical. We've
Speaker 5: had Skeleton Crew, which is basically a fun kids show
Speaker 5: like the Goonies and other things like that of the
Speaker 5: eighties that we grew up in. And so yeah, I
Speaker 5: think we're seeing more and more like you can have
Speaker 5: all of these different genres that are just connected to
Speaker 5: you know, either the larger intellectual properties or just you know,
Speaker 5: in sci fi kind of realms. But a sci fi
Speaker 5: rom com, a sci fi comedy, a ssichi, any of
Speaker 5: these kind of things.
Speaker 6: I'm definitely seeing elements. I mean, I'm a spoiler. I'm
Speaker 6: a musical theater baby, that's my nerd uri right there,
Speaker 6: as musical theater. And the amount of shows that have
Speaker 6: done musical episodes, so or you know, I do love comedy,
Speaker 6: and watching the Orville was thrilling. I was laughing so hard,
Speaker 6: and then, as you know, I was crying so hard
Speaker 6: about the deeply psychological, you know, importance that right that
Speaker 6: that show was giving. I just I'm finding all the
Speaker 6: things that I can relate to that don't necessarily have
Speaker 6: anything to do with nerd culture or mainstream culture.
Speaker 3: Right Yeah, No, I think it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5: And so what are some of the things you're finding, Like,
Speaker 5: let me let me first ask when when you started
Speaker 5: this project, what were kind of your expectations about the
Speaker 5: kind of media you'd be you'd be experiencing.
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, I've learned to forgive myself for
Speaker 6: not understanding some of it, and I'm a very intelligent person.
Speaker 6: It's not that it's just that my brain is not
Speaker 6: wired to remember, you know, seven different races all in
Speaker 6: a space battle. I can't remember. I can't follow the lore.
Speaker 6: And from the very beginning, all my beautiful nerds who
Speaker 6: are my friends and colleagues that come on to try
Speaker 6: to recruit me said, that's okay, let it go. If
Speaker 6: you don't understand everything, you will still get the story,
Speaker 6: get the excitement, get the romance. You'll get it all.
Speaker 6: And that is a major shift for me. Is like
Speaker 6: just almost not skimming that's not the right word, but
Speaker 6: not getting bogged down in lingo I don't understand or
Speaker 6: character references that make no sense to me. So it's
Speaker 6: much more enjoyable when I'm not feeling like, oh, I'm stupid,
Speaker 6: I don't get it. What are they talking about? Oh
Speaker 6: they left me out again.
Speaker 5: I'm pretty good that I'm done with school. I got
Speaker 5: a college degree, a master's degree.
Speaker 3: I don't want to do more homework. I understand what
Speaker 3: you mean about.
Speaker 5: You know, there are some there's some TV shows and
Speaker 5: books and movies and things where it feels like you
Speaker 5: really have got to do the homework to get it.
Speaker 5: And I totally understand why that it's a lot of
Speaker 5: fun where you don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think I didn't realize this at the time,
Speaker 6: and maybe I'm just putting this together now, but my
Speaker 6: format is somewhat brilliant because I can say to you, so, Matthew,
Speaker 6: that whole speech in the beginning, what the heck was
Speaker 6: that about? Right?
Speaker 3: And you're the work for you.
Speaker 6: Yes, you're going to say, oh, in the prequel, there's
Speaker 6: a world that we don't see in this one, and
Speaker 6: that and or whatever. You're going to explain it all
Speaker 6: to me. And you know, I can just drink. I
Speaker 6: just have a glass of wine and relax and watch
Speaker 6: good stuff and take what I take from it. And
Speaker 6: every everything I with the exception of two entities, one
Speaker 6: of them being one of your choices, I've found something
Speaker 6: to love. And I think that that's the key. One
Speaker 6: of my very first guests said, well, I'm not coming
Speaker 6: on your show so you can shit all over something
Speaker 6: I hold really dear, And I said, I would never.
Speaker 6: I'm looking to embrace these things. I would never approach
Speaker 6: something looking to trash it. But I understand that fear
Speaker 6: these things are very, very precious to people.
Speaker 3: And I think that's really true.
Speaker 5: And I think that's also part of the generational thing,
Speaker 5: because you know, a lot of us grew up being
Speaker 5: having these things trashed or being trashed because of them,
Speaker 5: and that's not the case anymore, and I think most
Speaker 5: of us think that's wonderful. I think, like with anything
Speaker 5: in life, there's always some people who are like, oh,
Speaker 5: I missed the good old days, when you know, they
Speaker 5: want a gate creep who gets to be a nerd,
Speaker 5: which mostly means they want to keep out girls because
Speaker 5: they think, you know, girls want to talk to them,
Speaker 5: so girls must be bad. Jinny and fandom is obviously
Speaker 5: a thing we can do far more episodes about, but
Speaker 5: I think that there's something really wonderful about getting to
Speaker 5: see things through someone else's eyes like that. And I've
Speaker 5: always found myself that I'm kind of in a middle
Speaker 5: position because with a lot of these things, I've done
Speaker 5: a lot of the homework, especially if it's you know.
Speaker 3: All the other shows and stuff.
Speaker 5: But a lot of the times, especially when it comes
Speaker 5: to comic books, I haven't read the comic books. And
Speaker 5: I'm a big believer if if I go to something
Speaker 5: and someone says you'll haven't even better understanding of it.
Speaker 5: If you've read the comic book, I'm like, cool, okay, well,
Speaker 5: then let me read about like comic books, just the
Speaker 5: visual meaning doesn't work in my brain, but let me
Speaker 5: least read about them or have someone tell me about
Speaker 5: them the way you do. But if someone says, oh,
Speaker 5: you didn't like it because you hadn't seen the comic book,
Speaker 5: and so therefore your opinion is not valid, you know,
Speaker 5: I think there's nothing wrong with making a product that's
Speaker 5: only for people who've already seen all the other stuff.
Speaker 5: But then it's also okay to say that's not for me,
Speaker 5: you know. And I love that you're able to really
Speaker 5: find what are the things that are still fairly accessible
Speaker 5: to you even if you don't know all that background
Speaker 5: or whatever it is.
Speaker 6: Right, Well, I have the benefit of someone who does
Speaker 6: to talk me through it, but I've also found myself
Speaker 6: if I can pull back and keep it big picture,
Speaker 6: I can just enjoy it.
Speaker 5: Right Yeah, And I think that's often the mark of
Speaker 5: the good media is the stuff that can be where
Speaker 5: the background might add more dimension and more to it,
Speaker 5: but you're still able to find something. You're able to
Speaker 5: understand it, You're able to or at least understand it
Speaker 5: enough to get what's happening.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: Well, I compare it to Sesame Street, because I thought,
Speaker 6: my opinion of that show is that it was a
Speaker 6: masterpiece in keeping the humor accessible for three year olds
Speaker 6: and thirty year olds, so there was always something for
Speaker 6: the parents to latch onto and find funny that would
Speaker 6: go over the kid's head and vice versa. And with
Speaker 6: these things, like you and I just talked about the
Speaker 6: Last of Us, it should appeal to those who have
Speaker 6: no background as well as two loyalists who obsess over
Speaker 6: it exactly, and the good ones do the good ones.
Speaker 6: I don't need to have read the book or seen
Speaker 6: the first season, you know, right, You.
Speaker 5: Know, I think that's so important, and I really you know,
Speaker 5: going back to the comment about people being kind of
Speaker 5: protective of these things, like I said, I think they
Speaker 5: can get to a problematic place and get to be gatekeepery,
Speaker 5: but I think the core idea of it's very important,
Speaker 5: especially with some of these properties that have had their
Speaker 5: bad periods and things like that, or have even with
Speaker 5: both within and without the fandom, people who are very
Speaker 5: negative about them. And I've really appreciated the way that
Speaker 5: you always go into, even with something like The Last
Speaker 5: of Us, that's the one that I suggested that you
Speaker 5: really didn't.
Speaker 3: Like, which I get.
Speaker 5: It's I think it's very kind of high bar of
Speaker 5: entry in terms of being very very hard to watch,
Speaker 5: very kind of gruesome horror and things like that. But
Speaker 5: what I really appreciated was your attitude wasn't oh, Matthew,
Speaker 5: I can't believe you asked me to watch this. It
Speaker 5: was Matthew, this didn't work for me, But I'm really
Speaker 5: curious why it worked for you. And I think that's
Speaker 5: such a good model of how we can approach media
Speaker 5: that doesn't necessarily work for us.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and I'm interested in You've said gatekeepery a couple
Speaker 6: of times. Is there a part of you out of curiosity?
Speaker 6: You are a lifelong nerd, So when I say make
Speaker 6: me a nerd, is there a part of you that's like,
Speaker 6: screw you, You're late to the party.
Speaker 5: There definitely is not, and I think, Okay, probably form
Speaker 5: the majority of people in these worlds, there isn't. But
Speaker 5: there definitely are parts of the world that are like that.
Speaker 5: And I think that.
Speaker 3: Probably when.
Speaker 5: The nerd stuff first started to get popular, when I
Speaker 5: was in my twenties or so late twenties. I think
Speaker 5: I probably had a little bit of that, mostly when
Speaker 5: would be.
Speaker 3: Folks who.
Speaker 5: I guess, you know, you know, it's not something I'm
Speaker 5: proud of, but I think I can understand the sentiment.
Speaker 3: And I think where I may have a little bit
Speaker 3: of it still is when.
Speaker 5: Because a lot of this stuff does have a lot
Speaker 5: of deep meaning and a lot of philosophy to it,
Speaker 5: a lot of ways that it's shaped.
Speaker 3: Kind who I am.
Speaker 5: I think it's more when folks look at things on
Speaker 5: the most surface of level and kind of try to
Speaker 5: judge it or comment on it based on that very
Speaker 5: surface level. That's maybe where I still can get a
Speaker 5: little kind of like get my haunches up. And I
Speaker 5: think the gatekeeping aspect is overall just a negative thing
Speaker 5: that geeks should fight against. But to me, I think
Speaker 5: because the way I want to approach everything in life,
Speaker 5: but especially this kind of media, is with a sense
Speaker 5: of wonder and curiosity. This is not geeking necessarily, but
Speaker 5: I think it's very beloved by geeks in the same
Speaker 5: way it is by music theater nerds. Music theater is
Speaker 5: of geeks and nerds, and the like, but you seem
Speaker 5: to lasso assume. Yes, his speech about people who are
Speaker 5: judgmental instead of curious.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that.
Speaker 5: Anyone who you know, I've seen the people who are like,
Speaker 5: all right, I'm gonna watch this one star movie so
Speaker 5: I can know enough about it to tell everybody how
Speaker 5: stupid they are for.
Speaker 3: Watching it, Like, that's not something you want.
Speaker 5: But the people who come in with a sense of curiosity,
Speaker 5: like clearly you did, I think is great and I
Speaker 5: think it deserves curiosity back. You know that when we
Speaker 5: do have someone who says, hey, like, one thing i
Speaker 5: think is really magical and beautiful that I'm seeing in
Speaker 5: Star Wars fandom all the time, and in geek fandom,
Speaker 5: and especially also in some of the games that I play,
Speaker 5: is people who are like, you know, my kids are
Speaker 5: really into this, my grandkids are really into this. And
Speaker 5: I feel like that's it. If people are mostly coming
Speaker 5: to this out of that sense of curiosity, and so
Speaker 5: those of us were in these communities, we should give
Speaker 5: that curiosity back.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: It shouldn't be judgmental, It shouldn't be Oh, how can
Speaker 5: you have not read this episode of this issue or
Speaker 5: whatever it should be?
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 5: I'm curious about what brought you here and how you
Speaker 5: think about it and what do you see from not
Speaker 5: having seen all this for forty years the way I did.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. You know, my mom, who sucks, she will listen
Speaker 6: to this. I can say that I love my mom.
Speaker 6: But she said, I don't know how you're watching all
Speaker 6: that stupid stuff for your podcast. Yeah, And I got
Speaker 6: so offended, Matthew, and I said, it's not for you, mom,
Speaker 6: And that's okay, but it's not stupid stuff just because
Speaker 6: it's not for you. And I think that's a you know,
Speaker 6: she's the queen of judgment and I think that's a
Speaker 6: hard that's eye opening. Why do we do that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Why is it either or you know what?
Speaker 3: It's really true?
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, with science fiction and nerdery,
Speaker 5: I think there becomes kind of a chicken in the
Speaker 5: egg thing of for a long time, it really was
Speaker 5: catered specifically towards you know, single white men, often the
Speaker 5: one who weren't you know, the most kind of socially
Speaker 5: competent by by the established you know, neurodivergent, you know,
Speaker 5: things like that, and that becomes then a recurring stereotype
Speaker 5: of oh, you're one of those anti social types if
Speaker 5: you watch this. Therefore, only those types watched that, And
Speaker 5: in many ways, I think the Internet was such a
Speaker 5: boon for those kind of cultures of letting people who
Speaker 5: are like, yeah, I'm not the best at a cocktail party,
Speaker 5: but if I can find my kind of people online
Speaker 5: and talk to them about it, we can build community
Speaker 5: and remember, like, we're not all just the one.
Speaker 3: Kid getting shoved into the locker at school or whatever.
Speaker 6: It is, right right, I'm sure the advent of the
Speaker 6: Internet launched all of this. And when the MCU started
Speaker 6: making their movies and they were so star studed in
Speaker 6: mainstream and popular, that brought i'm sure a new generation
Speaker 6: back to comic books, back to superheroes, back to all
Speaker 6: of these fantastical things that, yeah, I mean, it is
Speaker 6: strange to think that they were once these entities were
Speaker 6: created for or that faction of society you just described.
Speaker 6: And the other night I was reading Fourth Wing. It's
Speaker 6: a romanticy, and I was sitting at a bar because
Speaker 6: I had to kill time waiting for my son, So
Speaker 6: I was sitting at the bar having a glass of
Speaker 6: wine reading this romanticy book and this mainstream she looked
Speaker 6: like a Kardashian ran over to me and said, Oh,
Speaker 6: which one are you on? That's my favorite series. I've
Speaker 6: read them all. Oh, you're on the first one. And
Speaker 6: she we were talking and talking, and I thought, how remarkable,
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, when a twenty somethingter Kardashian looking
Speaker 6: woman runs up to me, I'm assuming she's like, excuse me, ma'am,
Speaker 6: do you need help? I don't like. I'm amazed that
Speaker 6: she wanted to talk romanticy.
Speaker 3: I get that well.
Speaker 5: And I'm happy to say Riki Hayashi has been able
Speaker 5: to join us. Welcome, Riki, Hello, give you a chance
Speaker 5: to meet Mandy Kaplin, host of the Making Make Me
Speaker 5: a Nerd podcast?
Speaker 6: Hello, Riaky, Hello, Apologies my fault.
Speaker 5: I forgot to one of mind Wreki that we were
Speaker 5: recording this week on this great.
Speaker 3: Topic, Uh, Riaky.
Speaker 5: We're talking though about, you know, sort of what it
Speaker 5: means to encounter geekery and nerdery at at different stages
Speaker 5: in life and and and come in into these things.
Speaker 5: And I'm curious for you. You're someone who kind of did
Speaker 5: you really kind of think of yourself as someone who
Speaker 5: grew up thinking of themselves as a nerd.
Speaker 3: Were you into I know.
Speaker 5: You've talked about liking anime as a kid, but things
Speaker 5: like science fiction and fantasy and stuff like that. Was
Speaker 5: that always a part of your comic books? Is that
Speaker 5: always part of your life?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 7: Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean Star Wars was one of the foundational pieces
Speaker 8: of media that I enjoyed as a kid. I don't
Speaker 8: remember it myself, but my parents have told me that
Speaker 8: they took me to see Empire Strikes back in the
Speaker 8: theater when I was barely a toddler. But Return of
Speaker 8: the Jedi was was the movie that I've remember seeing
Speaker 8: and being amazed, and we got it on VHS and
Speaker 8: I actually also had like a audio cassette like version
Speaker 8: of it, you know, not like the whole movie, but
Speaker 8: kind of like a summary, and I listened to that
Speaker 8: all the time.
Speaker 7: I watched the movie all the time.
Speaker 8: And then back to back years like Ghostbusters and Back
Speaker 8: to the Future, which are kind of like soft sci
Speaker 8: fi slash fantasy, were movies that really compelled me.
Speaker 7: And then yes, growing up, I watched a lot of.
Speaker 8: Anime comic book stuff. I don't remember when I got
Speaker 8: into I think that was more kind of like back
Speaker 8: toward via like Batman the animated series, and then I
Speaker 8: got into the physical comic books themselves. And of course
Speaker 8: I am Japanese, and you know, there's the stereotype that
Speaker 8: Asians are into anime drawing that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 8: I did do a little bit of that as a kid,
Speaker 8: and I had friends who were who were into that
Speaker 8: and we talked about things, you know, like Robotech, Dragon Ball,
Speaker 8: et cetera. So yeah, like I would say that I
Speaker 8: have always been a geek as far back as I
Speaker 8: can remember.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, that I think is very much kind of
Speaker 5: where I was coming from as well. But I love
Speaker 5: hearing that it's also in very different directions. Like anime
Speaker 5: was something that I think I was very like on
Speaker 5: the outskirts aware of, but wasn't really a part of
Speaker 5: my life until much later in my life. Certainly drawing,
Speaker 5: I can't draw water, so I'm always embrassed by those
Speaker 5: who can get into that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7: I wasn't that good.
Speaker 8: I remember I had two friends that were really good
Speaker 8: at drawing like robots and stuff, and I would try,
Speaker 8: but I never I would say, I never put that
Speaker 8: much as much effort into it as they did, so
Speaker 8: they were just more practiced and better at it. It
Speaker 8: ended up I was I was like better at writing
Speaker 8: than drawing.
Speaker 5: M Well and Manny, you were just telling this great
Speaker 5: story about kind of meeting a total strain who were
Speaker 5: really into the same kind of like romanticy book that
Speaker 5: you were reading, and it reminds me. I think it's
Speaker 5: kind of a really wonderful statement about where we've gotten
Speaker 5: to in our culture. And you know, earlier I was
Speaker 5: talking about the stereotype of you know, from the fifties
Speaker 5: sixty seventies of like you know, sci fi fantasy was
Speaker 5: only the realm of like neurodivergent white men, and I
Speaker 5: think that's never really been the case. There's always been
Speaker 5: lots of it around for all sorts of people, but
Speaker 5: that was very much the stereotype that got and so
Speaker 5: that was the stuff that if anything was picked up
Speaker 5: by by bigger studios, that's what was picked up. But
Speaker 5: you know, when I was growing up, my mother would
Speaker 5: always tell me that it's important to get buy in society.
Speaker 5: You need to know enough about the sports to be
Speaker 5: able to talk about the game last night. And it
Speaker 5: turns out I'm a huge sports fan. But what she
Speaker 5: meant was like, people are going to talk to you
Speaker 5: at the water cooler, at the wedding, at whatever social
Speaker 5: gathering we are about the game, whatever sport it was,
Speaker 5: And so it's good to know enough to be able
Speaker 5: to converse about that. And I think now it's funny
Speaker 5: that now it's the I do get people being like, Hey, Matthew,
Speaker 5: what's the new big Marvel thing? Because I'm going to,
Speaker 5: you know, my high school reunion and I want to
Speaker 5: be able to talk about this stuff. And I'm going
Speaker 5: to my cousin's wedding and I know someone's going to
Speaker 5: ask me about the new Star Wars? What's the new
Speaker 5: Star Wars? And like there's a part of me that
Speaker 5: at the time and still feels like there's nothing you
Speaker 5: should know about just because you can talk about other people.
Speaker 5: But it is a sign of just how much we've
Speaker 5: changed that now those are the mainstream conversations for a
Speaker 5: lot of people.
Speaker 3: Not for everybody but any means, but for a lot
Speaker 3: of us.
Speaker 6: Probably streamers had a lot to do with that. You know,
Speaker 6: that they could bring back beloved shows that people could
Speaker 6: watch again, or reboots of things, or you know, Game
Speaker 6: of Thrones became such a huge water cooler thing, and
Speaker 6: without streamers, I don't know that any of those things
Speaker 6: would have been made.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's definitely true.
Speaker 6: Sorry, Ky, are those is that like paraphernalia and toys
Speaker 6: behind you?
Speaker 7: Oh? Yeah? On the video feed? Yeah, I have a wall.
Speaker 8: It's mostly Pokemon stuff, yeah, because I did.
Speaker 7: I did stream.
Speaker 8: Pokemon Go battles for a while, so that that's just
Speaker 8: kind of my default background. I think there's other like
Speaker 8: anime paraphernalia as well.
Speaker 6: It's so funny whenever I have a guest on they
Speaker 6: they they're like hi, and all I see in the
Speaker 6: background are action figures and comic books and you know
Speaker 6: all the the fun merch that goes with being a
Speaker 6: true fan about these things.
Speaker 8: So yeah, well I definitely like post like Zoom Meeting era,
Speaker 8: everyone kind of has to think about like what's in
Speaker 8: their background and it's like a bookshelf and do you
Speaker 8: want to be taken seriously? You know, do you have
Speaker 8: all the psychology books and history books or do you
Speaker 8: have toys?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 7: Why not have to?
Speaker 8: Like I love this stuff.
Speaker 5: My camera's currently not working, but I have a bookcase
Speaker 5: behind me. They're very very carefully curated, and there's a
Speaker 5: top row that's all my like philosophy and religion and
Speaker 5: ethical textbooks that I go too, and then the next
Speaker 5: row was all like dungeons and dragons and vampire books
Speaker 5: and things like that, you know, yeah, all the different sides.
Speaker 8: My problem is that I'm a I was a history
Speaker 8: major in school, so all of my serious history books
Speaker 8: are like World War two and Hitler, and I'm like,
Speaker 8: I don't want my bookshelf behind me, now, thank you.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: I I mean I own a copy of mine comp
Speaker 5: because I wanted to read it. I wanted to understand
Speaker 5: that level of evil. But that's something that's going to be,
Speaker 5: you know, badly misunderstood. So I get that.
Speaker 8: I want to go back, Matthew, to what you're saying
Speaker 8: about sports, because it's interesting to me. Sports is a
Speaker 8: geeky thing because I grew up in kind of like
Speaker 8: the savor metrics revolution, right, the moneyball era and statistics
Speaker 8: and like studying them, and fantasy baseball, like all the
Speaker 8: fantasy sports has really like bridged that gap between jocks
Speaker 8: and nerds has been like the traditional stereotypical divide, and
Speaker 8: I like, there are so many you know, Econ graduates
Speaker 8: from Yale and stuff in baseball, like working in baseball
Speaker 8: as general managers and stuff like that. Now that I
Speaker 8: really like think that that divide is pretty artificial these days,
Speaker 8: in my opinion.
Speaker 6: I hope. So, yeah, well there's in doing my podcast.
Speaker 6: It started off as if you're obsessed with sci fi
Speaker 6: or fantasy or anime or comic books, come on my
Speaker 6: podcast and share your passion with me and get me
Speaker 6: excited about it too. But then I realized using the
Speaker 6: word nerd is broader than that. Like I am nerdy
Speaker 6: about musical theater. I am nerdy about Top Chef, so
Speaker 6: those aren't nerd entities necessarily. Musical theater is a little borderline,
Speaker 6: but but I'm nerdy about that. So I've I've done
Speaker 6: some episodes where like I did Survivor because I've never
Speaker 6: watched Survivor.
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, Survivor.
Speaker 6: Right, And my guest is the editor in chief of
Speaker 6: Entertainment Weekly, who's beat is covering Survivor for the past
Speaker 6: fifteen years, so he knows everything. He's obsessed and knowledgeable
Speaker 6: and nerdy about it, right, And so I think it's
Speaker 6: interesting to switch up what we're nerdy about and it's
Speaker 6: not just geek culture anymore.
Speaker 8: And specifically survivor like those kinds of reality TV competitions
Speaker 8: really play into game theory. Yeah, which is like a
Speaker 8: more traditional nerd avenue.
Speaker 6: Totally.
Speaker 5: Well, I think it makes a lot of sense, because
Speaker 5: I think you're right, there's something I think a lot
Speaker 5: of what the original term. I think a lot of
Speaker 5: the way people often used to use the word nerd
Speaker 5: maybe sometimes still do, is it's not just about what
Speaker 5: you're interested in, it's the way you're interested in it,
Speaker 5: you know, in terms of like is it a show
Speaker 5: that you turn on on Thursday night and watch and
Speaker 5: maybe talk about on Friday morning and then go about
Speaker 5: your day, or is it something that you collect paraphernalia
Speaker 5: about or make charts about, you know, what planet appeared when,
Speaker 5: or what recipe appeared when? Like to me, the person
Speaker 5: who wants to create a chart that lists all the
Speaker 5: different planets that different Star Trek episodes go to, and
Speaker 5: the person who creates a chart of all the different
Speaker 5: times that they cook scallops on Top Chef.
Speaker 6: And he's not top scallop Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Uh love love him so much?
Speaker 5: You know that that it's the same kind of feeling,
Speaker 5: you know, and and therefore it applies to sports. And
Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of great stuff that's been
Speaker 5: talking about how fantasy football, fantasy baseball, it's kind of
Speaker 5: like it it's D and D for people who are,
Speaker 5: you know, afraid to play D and D. I love
Speaker 5: those things, and I'm saying you have to. If you
Speaker 5: do those, you have to play D and D. But
Speaker 5: like there still is some stigma among certain parts of
Speaker 5: the population. They're like, oh, D and D, that's a
Speaker 5: nerdy thing. It's all focusing on the numbers, but then
Speaker 5: doing that all the numbers of fantasy football, that's totally okay,
Speaker 5: when when they're both I think just as much a fun,
Speaker 5: fun pursuit of really diving deep into something and learning
Speaker 5: all about it and then trying to use that to
Speaker 5: your favor.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and even even fantasy sports I think did for
Speaker 8: a long time carry a bit of a stigma, even
Speaker 8: amongst sports fans. But nowadays with the online sports betting,
Speaker 8: even if you're not in like an actual fantasy sports league,
Speaker 8: everyone is playing fantasy sports because you are trying to
Speaker 8: predict outcomes and you are studying the players and the
Speaker 8: teams like, oh, like this player has an advantage.
Speaker 7: You know, this batter has an advantage against this picture.
Speaker 8: So I want to play this particular parlay. That's that's
Speaker 8: just fantasy sports.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which I am nerdy about fantasy football, and that's.
Speaker 3: Great, that's great.
Speaker 5: I'd love to have a podcasters league, you know, that
Speaker 5: could be really fun.
Speaker 8: We should talk about it's been a long time.
Speaker 7: I'm a little bit out of out of it.
Speaker 5: Well, I but I also I used always get in
Speaker 5: trouble in fantasy football because I would if there was
Speaker 5: a very good Jet available, I would pick him, even
Speaker 5: though maybe there was someone better.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Can you back up? Did you
Speaker 6: say a good Jets?
Speaker 3: Well no, that's my point is that now that there's
Speaker 3: no one good on the New York Jets anymore, I
Speaker 3: don't have that problem. I just can't pick a Patriot ever.
Speaker 6: But oh, Matthew, let's go.
Speaker 3: Let me. Let me pull us back to our main topic.
Speaker 8: If you want to win, you got to get over
Speaker 8: that stuff.
Speaker 3: No getting I will never draft a Yankee either.
Speaker 5: But getting back to this, Mandy so in the stuff
Speaker 5: you've been experiencing, so Riekey bringing Flip Speed on Mandy's
Speaker 5: podcast Make Me a Nerd. Each week someone comes on,
Speaker 5: and she said, kind of introduces her to their favorite
Speaker 5: you know part So I did Orville and uh Penguin and.
Speaker 3: Uh the last of us. Other people have done other things.
Speaker 5: Manny, what are some of the things in particular that
Speaker 5: you've been surprised by? Or Yeah, I started to go
Speaker 5: with that, like you may have had one kind of
Speaker 5: idea of it, or you had no idea what it was,
Speaker 5: but then you came out of that episode and watching
Speaker 5: that with it.
Speaker 3: It surprised you. It showed you something different.
Speaker 6: Well, I'll say the Orville not just because I adore
Speaker 6: you and you came on the podcast, but I didn't
Speaker 6: think I would be crying and moved and so invested
Speaker 6: in the characters that really shocked me. And the other
Speaker 6: one I would have to say is Severance. My husband said,
Speaker 6: you won't like it. It's like sci fi and weird
Speaker 6: and dark. You won't like it. It's not for you.
Speaker 6: And I said, okay, thanks, I won't watch it. And
Speaker 6: despite the fact that everyone in the world loved it,
Speaker 6: I was like, Nope, I've heard it's not for me.
Speaker 6: Can't do it. And I did it for the podcast,
Speaker 6: and I only promised I'll watch like the first couple
Speaker 6: of episodes to get the conversation going, and I didn't
Speaker 6: leave my room for two days straight. I binged every episode.
Speaker 6: I loved it so deeply. I think it's absolutely genius
Speaker 6: and exciting. And I should divorce my husband because why
Speaker 6: was he trying to keep me away from it? But
Speaker 6: he was right. Usually I would watch something with like oh,
Speaker 6: they alter their brains and I would be like, hmm,
Speaker 6: I'm out. That's not for me.
Speaker 3: But oh man, well, and what pulled you into it?
Speaker 6: The concept was exciting. It's like Stepford Wives or that
Speaker 6: the weird remake Don't Worry Darling. I like those thoughtful,
Speaker 6: twisted ideas. How far would you go to cure your
Speaker 6: pain or to you know, make your life better? Would
Speaker 6: you surgically alter yourself or someone else? Eternal Sunshine of
Speaker 6: the Spotless Mind is one of my favorite movies, and
Speaker 6: I think Severance is very close to that and so
Speaker 6: and the world was so beautifully constructed and the set
Speaker 6: design is so masterful. I just there's nothing to not
Speaker 6: like about Severance. But I normally would have just never
Speaker 6: tried it. If not for this podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5: And I mean even that one was a little I
Speaker 5: think there's a couple of different schools of science fiction,
Speaker 5: and one of them is like, it's going to be
Speaker 5: very kind of ethereal almost and like you never, as
Speaker 5: the reader or the watcher, quite understand what's happening, and
Speaker 5: those tend to be ones that I really wrestle with.
Speaker 5: But Severance and we have some thoughts on the ending,
Speaker 5: and by the way, I'm afraid to tell you that
Speaker 5: you may have just volunteered for our podcast episode on
Speaker 5: this most recent season about Severance that we're going to
Speaker 5: do sometimes.
Speaker 6: Soon bring it up.
Speaker 3: You know, I really love that That's a show where it.
Speaker 5: Obviously has some interesting points it wants to make, but
Speaker 5: it's really not okay, it's not afraid of being just
Speaker 5: bizarre at times, Like there are things that happen then
Speaker 5: that you know. I love shows that have like a
Speaker 5: well constructed lore and everything really fits and makes sense,
Speaker 5: and Severance does in a way. But there's a lot
Speaker 5: of things where it's like, Okay, there's gonna be some
Speaker 5: random thing, but why was it? Why a waffle party,
Speaker 5: why a melon party? Parties like these things are just
Speaker 5: so random and weird, and yet they work so well
Speaker 5: because they're in this larger narrative. Yeah, it's asking these
Speaker 5: hard questions about what how far can office drudgery go?
Speaker 5: And on the flip side, how far can our desire
Speaker 5: for you know, denial of our own emotions and denial
Speaker 5: of that part of us that feels these things we
Speaker 5: don't want to feel. And yes, and being able to
Speaker 5: take those incredibly relatable questions and put them in this
Speaker 5: totally bizarre environment.
Speaker 3: It works in a way you wouldn't think.
Speaker 6: And I don't know, but I imagine the question that
Speaker 6: severance must have been born out of somebody saying if
Speaker 6: I could just flick a switch and cure my grief,
Speaker 6: if I could just turn this pain off, I would
Speaker 6: do anything for that. And it's like, well, there's your
Speaker 6: whole concept. Everything falls into place, and we've all felt that.
Speaker 6: I assume we've all grieved right and wished we could
Speaker 6: just turn it off.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I think they heard it was either Ben Still or
Speaker 8: Adam Scott talking about it about the concept of work,
Speaker 8: like the work day at an office and the disassociation
Speaker 8: and kind of the two lives syndrome, like you have
Speaker 8: your work life and your home life type of thing,
Speaker 8: and yeah, just making something out of that concept is fascinating.
Speaker 8: And I think the mystery box aspects.
Speaker 7: Say what you will.
Speaker 8: About JJ Abrams not being able to tell us what's
Speaker 8: actually in his mystery box, but he constructs a good
Speaker 8: box in the beginning of all of his products, and
Speaker 8: I think they're amazing and they draw you in. Is
Speaker 8: just I think part of it maybe fandom itself, like
Speaker 8: the discussions that we have on podcasts like this, and
Speaker 8: the speculation maybe gets out of control and speculate too
Speaker 8: much course, and then it's impossible to satisfy everyone because
Speaker 8: we all have our own.
Speaker 6: Theories, right although interestingly, you know, yes, this is a
Speaker 6: new phenomenon and Reddit did not exist forty years ago.
Speaker 6: I get that, But when JR got shot, my memory
Speaker 6: of that was like the world could talk about nothing else,
Speaker 6: and there were fan theories and people getting into arguments
Speaker 6: in bars like no, it had to be I don't
Speaker 6: even know the character names, but I just remember who
Speaker 6: shot JR. Was just ubiquitous and I so this has
Speaker 6: always existed to some degree, and that was a nighttime soap,
Speaker 6: but they got people doing what we do about you know,
Speaker 6: fan theories on Reddit.
Speaker 5: When they'd had one season where Bobby got killed and
Speaker 5: they found out that it was all it as one
Speaker 5: of the best writers, like, oops, we screwed up. Let's
Speaker 5: just unwrite this whole season, you know, like I remember
Speaker 5: Dallas and that yeah it being And I think I
Speaker 5: think that's in many ways one of the most that's
Speaker 5: the way really you got to grab the social zeitgeist
Speaker 5: these days, is something that that puts out a question
Speaker 5: that people are gonna want to discuss, you know, and
Speaker 5: it's a lot of us don't work in offices with
Speaker 5: a water cooler anymore, right, I never have, I'll be honest,
Speaker 5: in any real way other than like you know, temp
Speaker 5: jobs and stuff to pay for college. But through the Internet,
Speaker 5: through you know, any place where people gather. Yeah, those
Speaker 5: are the things that that that that sparked the attention.
Speaker 5: And I think part of why for me, part of
Speaker 5: why I think your product is so interesting is because
Speaker 5: it really dovetails so well with the whole project of
Speaker 5: superhero ethics. Because to me, the thing I've always found
Speaker 5: most exciting about all this media is yeaes spaceships are cool.
Speaker 5: And lightsabers are fun and like the special effects are great.
Speaker 5: But I like talking about questions, and I think a
Speaker 5: lot of people are really sick of discussing politics and
Speaker 5: discussing ethics and stuff like that. But if you go
Speaker 5: up to someone and say, hey, did you watch that
Speaker 5: show about the alien race that has this weird practice?
Speaker 3: What did you think? It gets people talking.
Speaker 5: Because it's kind of like a sneaky way into than
Speaker 5: realizing what do you think of the actual thing in
Speaker 5: our own world that that alien practice was happening as
Speaker 5: a metaphor for you know, and in Oreville we talked
Speaker 5: about that so much that right, yeah, what if there
Speaker 5: was a planet all of men?
Speaker 3: It's kind of a fun thought experiment, but really.
Speaker 5: It gets you thinking about how do we think of
Speaker 5: a gender in our own world or with any of
Speaker 5: those questions.
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, I mean I have marveled at how many
Speaker 6: times politics have come up because I watched one of
Speaker 6: these TV shows or movies. And some of it is
Speaker 6: highly intentional to comment on our on today's society and
Speaker 6: what we're going through, and some of it I don't
Speaker 6: think is intentional, right, and it's just it's the human experience.
Speaker 6: It keeps repeating itself, and it keeps coming up in
Speaker 6: our fiction.
Speaker 5: Right, Riki, do you have a memory of what was
Speaker 5: kind of the first piece of media like that that
Speaker 5: really kind of hit you hard and got you? Like
Speaker 5: you talked about how these things really shaped you in
Speaker 5: a lot of ways of what was the first thing
Speaker 5: that hit you in a way where beyond just like,
Speaker 5: oh this is really fun or I like watching this,
Speaker 5: some of you really left you thinking in some way.
Speaker 8: I don't It was probably more books, I'm trying to think,
Speaker 8: because Star Trek the Next Generation did have a lot
Speaker 8: of good episodes that dealt with that. But I really
Speaker 8: feel like it wasn't until I started reading science fiction,
Speaker 8: especially Enders Game and that whole series. Speaker of the
Speaker 8: Day in particular was just for my like reading science
Speaker 8: fiction fandom was very foundational in making me think about
Speaker 8: stuff and making me think about humanity and like human
Speaker 8: beings and how like how societies work in interact and
Speaker 8: all that kind of stuff. So that's what I would say,
Speaker 8: is like more reading science fiction.
Speaker 7: I read a lot of Heinlein, like.
Speaker 8: Post high school graduation, so he's he's got some weird books,
Speaker 8: but he also had some ideas about like what society
Speaker 8: would become, which have so far not proved to be fruitful.
Speaker 8: But I think it was that idea of speculation and
Speaker 8: of thinking about what humanity could become that really drew
Speaker 8: me to a lot of his writing.
Speaker 6: And what about you, Matthew, what was the thing that
Speaker 6: made you get deep?
Speaker 5: For me, it was Star Trek but happened in kind
Speaker 5: of an intentional way because from a fairly young age,
Speaker 5: my mother would sit me down and watch episodes of
Speaker 5: the original Star Trek. I was in kind of middle school,
Speaker 5: high school by the time Next Generation was coming out,
Speaker 5: but would sit down and watch these episodes and then
Speaker 5: she would ask me about them, and she talked to
Speaker 5: me about, so, yeah, these people who have you know,
Speaker 5: some people have black on their face and white on
Speaker 5: their face, and the others have those two colors, but
Speaker 5: reversed like did that make you think of anything you
Speaker 5: know that you know about and stuff like that, and
Speaker 5: you know, and it started, you know, I mean, that's
Speaker 5: kind of a deeper question. Some of it started from
Speaker 5: from very young age, but you know, she would sit
Speaker 5: down and watch these things with me and then talk
Speaker 5: about them with me, And I think that's she really
Speaker 5: kind of so that that kind of really got me
Speaker 5: started on this whole idea of geeky media is, Yes,
Speaker 5: spaceships are great, and it's the special effects are really
Speaker 5: fun and that's fun to watch, but also it can
Speaker 5: really kind of be ways to engage in questions in
Speaker 5: new ways, and that's something that I've always really loved.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the thing for I mean, my original kind
Speaker 8: of watch of Star Trek the Next Generation was more
Speaker 8: like starships and aliens and all that kind of.
Speaker 7: Stuff the Borg.
Speaker 8: But it was because that show when it was syndicated,
Speaker 8: was on all the time on one of the networks, right,
Speaker 8: and my friends and I would watch every day, just
Speaker 8: like a three hour block of it. And so it
Speaker 8: was on that repeat viewing when you already know the plot,
Speaker 8: you already know all of the spaceships and stuff that
Speaker 8: I started to notice and started to pay attention to things.
Speaker 5: I can see that, Well, we've gone an hour, and
Speaker 5: I don't want to keep Mandy too long, but I think, Mandy,
Speaker 5: you're definitely gonna be a repeat guest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me.
Speaker 5: I want to give you kind of a closing word,
Speaker 5: and then for our members, we are gonna have a
Speaker 5: bonus section that we'll get to in just a second,
Speaker 5: but Mandy, before that, give people a little bit more
Speaker 5: about how can they find more of your stuff?
Speaker 6: Oh, make me a Nerd is available wherever you podcast
Speaker 6: production of True Story the Family, and Yeah, I'm on
Speaker 6: social media at Mandy Underscore, Kaplain Underscore, Craven's both with K's,
Speaker 6: and I'm on Blue Sky now at Mandy miscast in
Speaker 6: Miscast is the name of my cabaret I do in
Speaker 6: Los Angeles every three months, all for laughs and all
Speaker 6: for charity.
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome. Yeah, well, it's been great having you on.
Speaker 3: I will definitely have you back.
Speaker 5: And let me stask what what's one thing that you
Speaker 5: have seen on on your podcast that you now have
Speaker 5: become kind of you're now telling other people about.
Speaker 6: Oh boy, there's a lot The penguin I turned a
Speaker 6: lot of people onto I guess everyone had already seen Severance.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to think of the more like obscure ones. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you caught me off guard because I've done I mean,
Speaker 6: I'm that idiot at a dinner party who's like, I've
Speaker 6: never seen Game of Thrones, I've never seen Star Trek.
Speaker 6: Like that's me or not me anymore, not the new me.
Speaker 6: But I've never seen Thrones, oh Reky, But so I
Speaker 6: think most of what I'm doing is so loved. I'm
Speaker 6: not discovering a little indie film and spreading the word
Speaker 6: about it. Although here's okay, here's one. There's a documentary
Speaker 6: from the mid nineties Seth Gordon called King of Kong.
Speaker 3: Do you know this movie?
Speaker 6: It is so yes, it is. It's like waiting for Guffman.
Speaker 6: But it's really a documentary about these two competing Donkey
Speaker 6: Kong players and how seriously they took their endeavors to
Speaker 6: be the champion Donkey Kong player.
Speaker 8: The arcade version Arcade Kevin, Yes, and they're trying to
Speaker 8: get the high score. So and this is all before
Speaker 8: like online you know speed run high Score culture too.
Speaker 6: It's weird and interesting and absolutely hilarious. I've never laughed
Speaker 6: so hard on my podcast. I couldn't speak because we
Speaker 6: were reminiscing about these very interesting guys and how seriously
Speaker 6: they take this. So King of Kong I love that.
Speaker 5: Okay, cool, definitely definitely worth checking out. Well, Manny, thank
Speaker 5: you so much. Riky is always thank you for this,
Speaker 5: especially just jumping on Last Minute my fault. We're not
Speaker 5: kind of poking about it from members. Of course, please
Speaker 5: stick around. We're gonna have a bonus member section in
Speaker 5: just a moment, and it's gonna include information about a
Speaker 5: new podcast idea that Mandy and I are gonna be
Speaker 5: kicking off pretty soon.
Speaker 3: What and of course, to.
Speaker 5: Become a member, it's just five dollars a month, fifty
Speaker 5: five dollars a year. All the information about how to
Speaker 5: join us in our show notes, and as many mentioned,
Speaker 5: her podcast is on true story dot fm, so is
Speaker 5: this podcast. We're both parts of that True Story family podcast,
Speaker 5: as is also the Marvel Movie Minute podcast, which I
Speaker 5: will be appearing on in the summer and fall, talking
Speaker 5: about four to two the Dark World, trying very hard
Speaker 5: to find things in that movie to enjoy. I'm somewhat successful,
Speaker 5: but mostly try very hilariously to talk about the things
Speaker 5: I don't enjoy.
Speaker 3: But all that podcast, check it out. It's all worthwhile.
Speaker 5: So hopefully you were to stick around for our members,
Speaker 5: but for everybody else, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: We out