WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in. Here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:06.280 in the True Story Fmfamily of Entertainment podcast, Meet and Zinnia. 3 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:08.839 You are being very polite to someone who is attempting 4 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.759 to kill us her wife's saffron. 5 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:15.039 You know I'm wildly, madly in love with you and. 6 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.920 Their best friend, Goldie Glad. We didn't miss all the fun. 7 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:21.239 Swords in hand, they defend their city from the worst 8 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:21.920 of humanity. 9 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:27.039 I am Lord Buxton Blue, What are you Electric? Hareg 10 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:32.679 Virgil Walcot Vicious Suad follow their adventures on the Swashbuckling 11 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:37.320 Ladies Debate Society audio drama podcast, available now at True 12 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:38.479 story dot fm. 13 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:45.759 Slash Swashbuckling. Hey Pete, Ever, wonder what Steven Spielberg's favorite 14 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:46.159 film is? 15 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.359 You know, Andy, I've heard he loves classics like Lawrence 16 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:51.240 of Arabia, Mebi and Saint Louis. 17 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.000 Imagine chatting with him about why those films resonate with 18 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:55.679 him so much. 19 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:58.520 That's exactly what we do on our podcast, Movies We Like. 20 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.840 We've had incredible guests like actress Dee Wallace, cinematographer Eric Measureschmidt, 21 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:08.519 director Steve Miner, and former Disney animators Tom and Tony Bancroft. 22 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.680 They share their favorite films and the impact they've had 23 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:15.079 on their careers, offering fascinating insights into the craftsmanship and 24 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.120 storytelling techniques that make these movies so special. 25 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.519 If you're curious about the magic behind the scenes, subscribe 26 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:23.640 to Movies We Like from True Story FM on your 27 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:27.079 favorite podcast app. New episodes are released on the fourth 28 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:29.879 Monday of each month with early access for our members. 29 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:32.280 Join us on Movies we Like as we explore the 30 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.840 movies we all like with the people who make them and. 31 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.040 Stephen our people will call your people. 32 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:45.799 Let's make this happen. BIVI subscribe today. 33 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.879 Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Friends, 34 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.879 many of us think of ourselves as nerds, as geeks, 35 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.439 and for some there's a recent development. For others, we 36 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:01.480 have been so since birth, and we love to talk 37 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.280 about the things that geeks love, but we haven't really 38 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.040 got a chance to step back and talk about how 39 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:08.199 did we become geeks? Is this just part of who 40 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:11.240 we are? Can you make yourself a geek? Well, I'm 41 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:13.960 really honored today by saying our special guest is Mandy Caplan, 42 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.360 a comedian, a musical theater performer and arranger of Cabareat 43 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.280 Nights in Los Angeles, and who also has a podcast 44 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.039 called make Me a Geek, in which she has been 45 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.719 inviting people, including myself, on to kind of introduce her 46 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:33.719 to different finds of favorite geek media, TV shows, video games, movies, 47 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.120 all the rest. And I've so enjoyed getting to be 48 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:38.639 on her podcast that I wanted her to come online 49 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.639 and talk about this whole process she's been going through. 50 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.439 So Matdie want you to start by saying hello and 51 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:43.199 introducing yourself. 52 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:48.080 Well, Hello, I am Mandy Caplan and my podcast is 53 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.199 called make Me a Nerd Mating Nerdy. I hate to 54 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:52.800 give you a demerit right off. 55 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.719 I mean I'm I think generally, when I'm in, you know, 56 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:59.639 in a you know, generally, when I'm introducing a host, 57 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.120 I should probably introduced them properly. 58 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.039 So yes, no demerit received. 59 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:07.719 Okay, and someone keeping score, I imagine, here we go, 60 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:11.120 here we go. But yeah, my deal is that I'm 61 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.080 a mainstream mom. I love Taylor Swift, I love Housewives, 62 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:20.439 I love fantasy football, and I have shied away from 63 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.479 or been afraid of, dungeons and dragons and star both 64 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:29.520 Trek and Wars and all of nerd culture. I've just 65 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:33.560 kept my distance. And when I was turning fifty, I thought, 66 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.800 there's a reason why everyone in my life loves this stuff, 67 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:39.280 and I'm going to crack it. I'm going to figure 68 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:41.080 it out, and I'm going to try these things I've 69 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:46.719 never tried, which has led me down such exciting roads 70 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.479 and discoveries of things I can really relate to. You 71 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.280 have been such a successful guest. Well two out of 72 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:59.599 three ain't bad. But we watched The Orville, which I loved, 73 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:06.599 and The Penguin, which I absolutely worshiped. But you know, 74 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.719 I'm realizing there's so much I love about all of 75 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:12.240 this stuff, and some of it is a bridge too far, 76 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:13.840 but you know. 77 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.560 And I totally get that. I think it's really interesting 78 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:17.519 had this conversation. I'm just a few years younger than you. 79 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.959 I'm most forty eight, and you know, our generation, I think, 80 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.319 grew up at a time when, like you know, if 81 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:27.800 you read comic books, if you're really into Star Wars, like, 82 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:29.480 there was a couple of kids at our school who 83 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:31.279 were that. I was certainly one of those kids, and 84 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:34.120 I got stuffed into lockers a lot that kind of 85 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:38.399 thing metaphorically, not literally, but. 86 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.959 There's still time. I mean, well, I'm kind of a 87 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.040 large with all these demerits you're going to be getting. 88 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.399 If they build a locker big enough, you're right in there. 89 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:46.480 There you go, There you go. 90 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.000 But like it's been fascinating to me, especially on some 91 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:53.319 of my other podcasts, Star Wars Generations, especially getting talked, 92 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.040 getting you talk to the folks who are growing up 93 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.160 in a time where like reading comic books is cool, 94 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.399 knowing comic books is cool. The MCU is, you know, 95 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.120 one of the biggest movie franchises out there, with Star 96 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:07.160 Wars a close second, and so it's been really interesting 97 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:09.560 to me getting to hear, you know, from you as well, 98 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.360 talking about, you know, approaching this at a different point 99 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.720 in life instead of having grown up with it. And 100 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:16.600 so let me just kind of start by asking you 101 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.959 for you when you started this process, Like what did 102 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.639 the word nerd mean to you? Like, what what do 103 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.439 you have in mind when you thought I want to 104 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:25.959 explore this world that I haven't poked my head into before. 105 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.759 Well, I know this isn't popular amongst some nerds, but 106 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:33.120 I love the Big Bang theory and I think it 107 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.160 inspired a lot of this, and that's what I think 108 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:38.000 of people who love not only playing a video game, 109 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:40.519 but going to conventions for said video game and getting 110 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.439 the comic books and wearing the T shirts and you know, 111 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:49.399 doing cosplay. All of those things I saw as nerdy 112 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:52.040 and Big Bang Theory made me think, but they look 113 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.600 really fun and they look like ways to really bond 114 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.759 with people and make lasting friendships, and I like people 115 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.879 and friendships, so I think I was inspired by that. 116 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:07.720 But I know that, for example, my sister is a 117 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.120 huge nerd and she just hates the Big Bang Theory 118 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.480 and takes just very imputing to her tellay, So I 119 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.399 know there's that part I think. 120 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:17.600 That I'm want to say, I'm definitely one of those 121 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.040 who are not a fan of the show because I 122 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.199 think it's it's often made by people who aren't geeks 123 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:22.519 but who are kind of making fun of it. 124 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.839 But I love that you're kind of like the exception 125 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:25.639 there and that, like. 126 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.759 You know, for you, you seem to really enjoyed getting in 127 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:29.079 on the joke, because I do think there was a 128 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:32.160 lot of celebration of those parts of the culture, even 129 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:33.920 if often they're they're poking fun at it. 130 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.120 In ways that I don't love. 131 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.600 But so yeah, and I will get into more specifics 132 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:41.360 in a bit. But now that you've kind of been 133 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:42.839 on this journey for what has it been about a 134 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:44.600 year since I started this podcast. 135 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.079 Six months coming up on a year. 136 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:48.279 What's been your experience with it so far? 137 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:57.439 Tons of fun, tons of Uh, in a way, proud 138 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:00.560 of myself for really trying things I would never have 139 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.360 tried based on the description on Netflix sci Fi Fantasy, 140 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:08.000 I'm out, Yeah, and just opening my mind and opening 141 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.759 my heart and finding such fantastic shows and movies and 142 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:19.720 books and yeah, I mean there are specific things I love, 143 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:25.720 specific entities that I'm really drawn to, But moreover, I 144 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:27.879 am an old dog and I'm learning new tricks. 145 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.839 Yeah, and I think that's great. I think that goes 146 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:31.839 in all directions, you know. 147 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.040 Or earlier we were talking about our shared love of 148 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.800 cooking shows and you mentioned Taylor Swift, something that I've 149 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:40.800 definitely probably rejected for far too long, in part because 150 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.279 I had a sort of oh, commercialized pop music is bad, 151 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.360 but also just some of you know, misogyny about female 152 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.079 pop singers and the like, and the way society dismisses 153 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.360 them and She's someone have come to love. My spouse 154 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.279 has introduced me to one direction and the joy of 155 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:57.720 the new generation of boy bands. Though I'll always be 156 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:00.759 a Backstreet boy at heart, but I think there's something 157 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.120 great about being willing to kind of branch out and 158 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:08.240 explore new things, especially at this point in time right now, 159 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.360 where you know. Part of why I think it's such 160 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.160 an interesting question is I think if you ask a 161 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.120 lot of people what is nerd media right now, You're 162 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.240 gonna get a very broad answer, because, for example, just 163 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.439 I think you recually did an episode on and Or 164 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:26.120 right yep in Star Wars, And granted there's some debate 165 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.279 about this right now, but within Star Wars, in the 166 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.720 last year, we've had a spy drama which is and Or, 167 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.559 which is very kind of intense, and we had Mandalorian, 168 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:37.399 which is very like dark and gritty and cynical. We've 169 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.440 had Skeleton Crew, which is basically a fun kids show 170 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.759 like the Goonies and other things like that of the 171 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.080 eighties that we grew up in. And so yeah, I 172 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.440 think we're seeing more and more like you can have 173 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.080 all of these different genres that are just connected to 174 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.919 you know, either the larger intellectual properties or just you know, 175 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:55.879 in sci fi kind of realms. But a sci fi 176 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.519 rom com, a sci fi comedy, a ssichi, any of 177 00:08:58.519 --> 00:08:59.200 these kind of things. 178 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.000 I'm definitely seeing elements. I mean, I'm a spoiler. I'm 179 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:08.519 a musical theater baby, that's my nerd uri right there, 180 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:12.240 as musical theater. And the amount of shows that have 181 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:17.240 done musical episodes, so or you know, I do love comedy, 182 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.320 and watching the Orville was thrilling. I was laughing so hard, 183 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:23.240 and then, as you know, I was crying so hard 184 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:29.879 about the deeply psychological, you know, importance that right that 185 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:33.519 that show was giving. I just I'm finding all the 186 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.759 things that I can relate to that don't necessarily have 187 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.320 anything to do with nerd culture or mainstream culture. 188 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.399 Right Yeah, No, I think it makes a lot of sense. 189 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:45.799 And so what are some of the things you're finding, Like, 190 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.320 let me let me first ask when when you started 191 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.639 this project, what were kind of your expectations about the 192 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:52.600 kind of media you'd be you'd be experiencing. 193 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:57.519 Well, first of all, I've learned to forgive myself for 194 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:02.480 not understanding some of it, and I'm a very intelligent person. 195 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:04.360 It's not that it's just that my brain is not 196 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.720 wired to remember, you know, seven different races all in 197 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:13.120 a space battle. I can't remember. I can't follow the lore. 198 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:17.720 And from the very beginning, all my beautiful nerds who 199 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:20.240 are my friends and colleagues that come on to try 200 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.240 to recruit me said, that's okay, let it go. If 201 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:27.919 you don't understand everything, you will still get the story, 202 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.480 get the excitement, get the romance. You'll get it all. 203 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:36.519 And that is a major shift for me. Is like 204 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.879 just almost not skimming that's not the right word, but 205 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.879 not getting bogged down in lingo I don't understand or 206 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:51.080 character references that make no sense to me. So it's 207 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.600 much more enjoyable when I'm not feeling like, oh, I'm stupid, 208 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.600 I don't get it. What are they talking about? Oh 209 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:58.679 they left me out again. 210 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.440 I'm pretty good that I'm done with school. I got 211 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.720 a college degree, a master's degree. 212 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.360 I don't want to do more homework. I understand what 213 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:06.960 you mean about. 214 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.039 You know, there are some there's some TV shows and 215 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.960 books and movies and things where it feels like you 216 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.879 really have got to do the homework to get it. 217 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.559 And I totally understand why that it's a lot of 218 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.039 fun where you don't have to worry about that. 219 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.879 Yeah, And I think I didn't realize this at the time, 220 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.919 and maybe I'm just putting this together now, but my 221 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:29.240 format is somewhat brilliant because I can say to you, so, Matthew, 222 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:32.080 that whole speech in the beginning, what the heck was 223 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:33.000 that about? Right? 224 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:34.320 And you're the work for you. 225 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.919 Yes, you're going to say, oh, in the prequel, there's 226 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:39.840 a world that we don't see in this one, and 227 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.960 that and or whatever. You're going to explain it all 228 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:48.159 to me. And you know, I can just drink. I 229 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.320 just have a glass of wine and relax and watch 230 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.960 good stuff and take what I take from it. And 231 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.840 every everything I with the exception of two entities, one 232 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:04.600 of them being one of your choices, I've found something 233 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:08.080 to love. And I think that that's the key. One 234 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:11.960 of my very first guests said, well, I'm not coming 235 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.080 on your show so you can shit all over something 236 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.799 I hold really dear, And I said, I would never. 237 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.159 I'm looking to embrace these things. I would never approach 238 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.120 something looking to trash it. But I understand that fear 239 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.080 these things are very, very precious to people. 240 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.159 And I think that's really true. 241 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.960 And I think that's also part of the generational thing, 242 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:36.799 because you know, a lot of us grew up being 243 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.360 having these things trashed or being trashed because of them, 244 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.320 and that's not the case anymore, and I think most 245 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.519 of us think that's wonderful. I think, like with anything 246 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.399 in life, there's always some people who are like, oh, 247 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.000 I missed the good old days, when you know, they 248 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:53.039 want a gate creep who gets to be a nerd, 249 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:55.799 which mostly means they want to keep out girls because 250 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:57.519 they think, you know, girls want to talk to them, 251 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:01.159 so girls must be bad. Jinny and fandom is obviously 252 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.200 a thing we can do far more episodes about, but 253 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.919 I think that there's something really wonderful about getting to 254 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:10.360 see things through someone else's eyes like that. And I've 255 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.039 always found myself that I'm kind of in a middle 256 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.519 position because with a lot of these things, I've done 257 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:17.679 a lot of the homework, especially if it's you know. 258 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:19.320 All the other shows and stuff. 259 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.720 But a lot of the times, especially when it comes 260 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.600 to comic books, I haven't read the comic books. And 261 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.559 I'm a big believer if if I go to something 262 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:31.399 and someone says you'll haven't even better understanding of it. 263 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:33.720 If you've read the comic book, I'm like, cool, okay, well, 264 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.240 then let me read about like comic books, just the 265 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:37.960 visual meaning doesn't work in my brain, but let me 266 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:39.919 least read about them or have someone tell me about 267 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.519 them the way you do. But if someone says, oh, 268 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.440 you didn't like it because you hadn't seen the comic book, 269 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.879 and so therefore your opinion is not valid, you know, 270 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:49.919 I think there's nothing wrong with making a product that's 271 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.279 only for people who've already seen all the other stuff. 272 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.360 But then it's also okay to say that's not for me, 273 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.159 you know. And I love that you're able to really 274 00:13:57.159 --> 00:13:59.480 find what are the things that are still fairly accessible 275 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.240 to you even if you don't know all that background 276 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:02.960 or whatever it is. 277 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.320 Right, Well, I have the benefit of someone who does 278 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:09.960 to talk me through it, but I've also found myself 279 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:13.879 if I can pull back and keep it big picture, 280 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:15.639 I can just enjoy it. 281 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.200 Right Yeah, And I think that's often the mark of 282 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:20.919 the good media is the stuff that can be where 283 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.519 the background might add more dimension and more to it, 284 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:26.519 but you're still able to find something. You're able to 285 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.519 understand it, You're able to or at least understand it 286 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:29.960 enough to get what's happening. 287 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:30.279 You know. 288 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.480 Well, I compare it to Sesame Street, because I thought, 289 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.720 my opinion of that show is that it was a 290 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.600 masterpiece in keeping the humor accessible for three year olds 291 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.600 and thirty year olds, so there was always something for 292 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.720 the parents to latch onto and find funny that would 293 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:55.600 go over the kid's head and vice versa. And with 294 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.279 these things, like you and I just talked about the 295 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.399 Last of Us, it should appeal to those who have 296 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:07.120 no background as well as two loyalists who obsess over 297 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.600 it exactly, and the good ones do the good ones. 298 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.799 I don't need to have read the book or seen 299 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:18.279 the first season, you know, right, You. 300 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.000 Know, I think that's so important, and I really you know, 301 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:21.720 going back to the comment about people being kind of 302 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.679 protective of these things, like I said, I think they 303 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.000 can get to a problematic place and get to be gatekeepery, 304 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.360 but I think the core idea of it's very important, 305 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.000 especially with some of these properties that have had their 306 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.720 bad periods and things like that, or have even with 307 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:36.840 both within and without the fandom, people who are very 308 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.440 negative about them. And I've really appreciated the way that 309 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.519 you always go into, even with something like The Last 310 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.879 of Us, that's the one that I suggested that you 311 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:45.559 really didn't. 312 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:45.919 Like, which I get. 313 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.679 It's I think it's very kind of high bar of 314 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.399 entry in terms of being very very hard to watch, 315 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:55.759 very kind of gruesome horror and things like that. But 316 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.039 what I really appreciated was your attitude wasn't oh, Matthew, 317 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:00.759 I can't believe you asked me to watch this. It 318 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.360 was Matthew, this didn't work for me, But I'm really 319 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.679 curious why it worked for you. And I think that's 320 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.759 such a good model of how we can approach media 321 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:10.320 that doesn't necessarily work for us. 322 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.720 Absolutely, and I'm interested in You've said gatekeepery a couple 323 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.799 of times. Is there a part of you out of curiosity? 324 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.759 You are a lifelong nerd, So when I say make 325 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.480 me a nerd, is there a part of you that's like, 326 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.120 screw you, You're late to the party. 327 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.799 There definitely is not, and I think, Okay, probably form 328 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.639 the majority of people in these worlds, there isn't. But 329 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.039 there definitely are parts of the world that are like that. 330 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:37.840 And I think that. 331 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:40.320 Probably when. 332 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.440 The nerd stuff first started to get popular, when I 333 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.159 was in my twenties or so late twenties. I think 334 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.720 I probably had a little bit of that, mostly when 335 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:52.120 would be. 336 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.039 Folks who. 337 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.360 I guess, you know, you know, it's not something I'm 338 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.200 proud of, but I think I can understand the sentiment. 339 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:00.799 And I think where I may have a little bit 340 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.320 of it still is when. 341 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:06.000 Because a lot of this stuff does have a lot 342 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.920 of deep meaning and a lot of philosophy to it, 343 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:09.400 a lot of ways that it's shaped. 344 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:10.599 Kind who I am. 345 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:12.759 I think it's more when folks look at things on 346 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.839 the most surface of level and kind of try to 347 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.039 judge it or comment on it based on that very 348 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.440 surface level. That's maybe where I still can get a 349 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.960 little kind of like get my haunches up. And I 350 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.319 think the gatekeeping aspect is overall just a negative thing 351 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.640 that geeks should fight against. But to me, I think 352 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.279 because the way I want to approach everything in life, 353 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.160 but especially this kind of media, is with a sense 354 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.880 of wonder and curiosity. This is not geeking necessarily, but 355 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:41.599 I think it's very beloved by geeks in the same 356 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.519 way it is by music theater nerds. Music theater is 357 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.000 of geeks and nerds, and the like, but you seem 358 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.240 to lasso assume. Yes, his speech about people who are 359 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:52.839 judgmental instead of curious. 360 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:54.240 You know, I think that. 361 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:58.559 Anyone who you know, I've seen the people who are like, 362 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.599 all right, I'm gonna watch this one star movie so 363 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.200 I can know enough about it to tell everybody how 364 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:03.960 stupid they are for. 365 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.400 Watching it, Like, that's not something you want. 366 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.960 But the people who come in with a sense of curiosity, 367 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.240 like clearly you did, I think is great and I 368 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.519 think it deserves curiosity back. You know that when we 369 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.119 do have someone who says, hey, like, one thing i 370 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.279 think is really magical and beautiful that I'm seeing in 371 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:24.480 Star Wars fandom all the time, and in geek fandom, 372 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.759 and especially also in some of the games that I play, 373 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:29.000 is people who are like, you know, my kids are 374 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.039 really into this, my grandkids are really into this. And 375 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.759 I feel like that's it. If people are mostly coming 376 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.720 to this out of that sense of curiosity, and so 377 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:38.839 those of us were in these communities, we should give 378 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.799 that curiosity back. 379 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:40.000 You know. 380 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.640 It shouldn't be judgmental, It shouldn't be Oh, how can 381 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:44.960 you have not read this episode of this issue or 382 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:45.799 whatever it should be? 383 00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:47.319 Hey, I'm glad you're here. 384 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.759 I'm curious about what brought you here and how you 385 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:51.960 think about it and what do you see from not 386 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:53.960 having seen all this for forty years the way I did. 387 00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:00.279 Absolutely. You know, my mom, who sucks, she will listen 388 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.960 to this. I can say that I love my mom. 389 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.359 But she said, I don't know how you're watching all 390 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.119 that stupid stuff for your podcast. Yeah, And I got 391 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:16.319 so offended, Matthew, and I said, it's not for you, mom, 392 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.960 And that's okay, but it's not stupid stuff just because 393 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.680 it's not for you. And I think that's a you know, 394 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.559 she's the queen of judgment and I think that's a 395 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.759 hard that's eye opening. Why do we do that? 396 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:30.960 Yeah? 397 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.720 Why is it either or you know what? 398 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:35.319 It's really true? 399 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.519 And I think, you know, with science fiction and nerdery, 400 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.160 I think there becomes kind of a chicken in the 401 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.359