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<v Speaker 1>We have talked many times now about Jonathan Hate and

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<v Speaker 1>his book The Ancient Think, It's yours in mind new

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<v Speaker 1>It's like most contemporary parenting book, like The Favorite Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and specifically The Anxious Generation is about the impact that

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<v Speaker 1>technology has on kids, technology screen, specifically social media, all

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<v Speaker 1>of that stuff, and how we as parents aren't doing

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<v Speaker 1>our kids a favor by allowing them free reign on

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<v Speaker 1>an open market for stupidity or however you want to

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<v Speaker 1>put it.

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<v Speaker 2>He draws a direct core connection in this book between

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that there's instant gratification and constant stimulus, and

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<v Speaker 2>how that the correlation, the connection of when those phones

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<v Speaker 2>smartphones started to phase into teenage society that so went

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<v Speaker 2>this draw or this increase in depression, anxiety, and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people, I don't get me wrong, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people want to blame social media, and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know that it's necessarily social media specifically. I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a bigger problem in that you have the phone becomes

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<v Speaker 2>a distraction where you don't know how to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>being bored, and then you also have this parenting movement

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<v Speaker 2>that makes where people don't know how to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>negative experiences like we pacify children at every turn, with

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<v Speaker 2>any opportunity that we can, and I don't know that

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<v Speaker 2>that's the right thing to do, for whatever it.

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<v Speaker 3>Seems to ourselves now, Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>Like it's hard to like it's a weird thing where

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<v Speaker 4>people go. You know what I did. I went on

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<v Speaker 4>a walk the other day and I just want it

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<v Speaker 4>was so nice. Yeah, it was so nice.

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<v Speaker 3>I love standing in a line.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't love standing in line, but I love standing

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<v Speaker 1>in a line without my phone or without you know,

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<v Speaker 1>looking at it, because then I get to look at

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<v Speaker 1>and judge everybody else because no one is looking up

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<v Speaker 1>at me, no, no one.

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<v Speaker 4>I got five seconds. I laughed at myself. I put

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<v Speaker 4>my phone in.

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<v Speaker 2>My pocket because I texted people that I was beating

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<v Speaker 2>for coffee. I set their line for what had to

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<v Speaker 2>be five mississips, and then I pulled my phone back

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<v Speaker 2>out again, and I giggled, and I did it and

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<v Speaker 2>then went about sending emails.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a direct correlation.

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<v Speaker 5>I firmly believe this, and don't think I'm so woo

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<v Speaker 5>woo for saying it, But a direct correlation between battling

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<v Speaker 5>anxiety and having moments of silence and peace. Yeah, whether

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<v Speaker 5>it's meditation or taking that walk without stimulation, whatever, there's

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<v Speaker 5>absolutely a correlation to reducing your anxiety the more moments

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<v Speaker 5>of peace that you have.

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<v Speaker 2>And at its core, I think that's what he's talking

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<v Speaker 2>about in this interview where he points out that kids

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<v Speaker 2>need to be pushed beyond their fear and their comfort

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<v Speaker 2>zone in order to build resilience, and he kind of

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<v Speaker 2>says that he's really calling out dads because that traditionally

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<v Speaker 2>has been their role. He also says it doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>moms can't do it. He just said, for whatever reason, psychologically,

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<v Speaker 2>this seems to be the thing that dads do without

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<v Speaker 2>even thinking about it. They're the ones that are like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>go do this thing, or they want to play monster

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<v Speaker 2>when the kids are young because they want to just

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<v Speaker 2>scare them a little, but in a fun way.

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<v Speaker 1>There's something very off putting about dads who are the

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<v Speaker 1>careful ones. To me, I'm looking right at you when

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<v Speaker 1>I say this, but I mean, yeah, okay, good.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not. But maybe emotionally.

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<v Speaker 6>You can't laugh away if you are If you're a

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<v Speaker 6>dude and you have kids and you're the one who says.

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<v Speaker 3>Careful with that, it's sharp that stove is hot. Careful

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<v Speaker 3>all around the stairs, careful, careful, don't touch that, careful

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<v Speaker 3>with that, don't put your hand on the dog's face,

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<v Speaker 3>don't do like that to me is very off putting.

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<v Speaker 1>It And as a there are obvious things that I

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<v Speaker 1>would want my kids to be careful about, yes, but

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<v Speaker 1>me telling them to be careful is nowhere near as

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<v Speaker 1>great a lesson as the dog biting their thumb or

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<v Speaker 1>the stove actually being hot, or the knife actually being sharp.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet consequences are awesome. They're great teachers. I say this

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<v Speaker 2>a lot, but one of the top, like I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know themes of parenting that my dad gave to me

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<v Speaker 2>was he would constantly tell the story about him and

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<v Speaker 2>my grandfather where my grandfather would just tell him to

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<v Speaker 2>go do stuff around the farm, and my dad, as

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<v Speaker 2>like a seven eight year old, would go, well, if

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<v Speaker 2>he's asking you to do it, it must mean I

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<v Speaker 2>could do it. But as he got older, he realized

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<v Speaker 2>that these were just tests. These were just him like

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<v Speaker 2>throwing it into a problem and seeing if he could

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<v Speaker 2>figure it out. And my dad learned as an adult

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<v Speaker 2>that that's where his self esteem came from.

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<v Speaker 3>Go fix that head, gasket leak on the tractor.

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<v Speaker 4>You're not exaggerating.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean my dad and my uncle drove a stick

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<v Speaker 2>shift pickup to feed the cattle on the ranch and

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<v Speaker 2>they got in a fight and took out about twenty

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<v Speaker 2>yards of fence and then had to go fix the fence.

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<v Speaker 4>And my grandfather was like, this is just what it was.

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<v Speaker 4>These are all just.

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<v Speaker 2>Natural consequences presenting themselves, and so he talks about like

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<v Speaker 2>and my version of this was my wife hated this.

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<v Speaker 2>We lived on the same block as our elementary school

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<v Speaker 2>and my kids wanted to walk home from school by themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>and I said sure, and she's like, what are you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, they're walking to school and they're walking home

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<v Speaker 2>from school, and she's like, that's not safe. I go,

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<v Speaker 2>there are hundreds of people around dropping their kids off.

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<v Speaker 2>If somebody grabs one of them and they're screaming or something,

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<v Speaker 2>somebody's gonna do something. But also, that's not the time

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<v Speaker 2>to grab a can do us. That's busy, prime time.

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<v Speaker 3>It's lazy.

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<v Speaker 4>They're not even crossing a street, lady like.

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<v Speaker 2>And to me, the best example of this was that

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<v Speaker 2>when I would drop Jacob off at kindergarten, Jack was

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<v Speaker 2>maybe two or three, and he goes, can I go home?

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<v Speaker 2>And I and he loved it. He loved running around

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<v Speaker 2>the corner where I could not see him as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as we dropped him off, because he liked going into

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<v Speaker 2>the door, and he loved being in the house by himself.

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<v Speaker 2>Jacob was not this way, but he just loved all

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<v Speaker 2>of it. And so I was like, great, like knock

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<v Speaker 2>yourself out. And he told me one time this guy

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<v Speaker 2>stopped and said, hey, are you okay? And he said,

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<v Speaker 2>he goes, I know I'm not supposed to talk to trangers.

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<v Speaker 2>So I gave him a thumbs up and I ran

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<v Speaker 2>in the house.

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<v Speaker 6>I buy a.

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<v Speaker 5>Kid outside by himself walking some way in.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't call your wife lady to her face. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>all right, rough housing. I've said it before.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking about Jonathan hate challenges that the dads should

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<v Speaker 1>be willing to challenge their kids.

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<v Speaker 3>Get in there.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe not see how well they can take a punch,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, understand the kids are going to scrape

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<v Speaker 1>their knees. One of the things we used to love doing,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've mentioned before, is my kids would jump up

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<v Speaker 1>on our bed and we would pillow fight and The

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<v Speaker 1>rule was, we'll do it as long as no one cries,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the first time someone cries, game over, and

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<v Speaker 1>I would hit them harder and harder.

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<v Speaker 3>Your son harder, no, but rarely. He was the first one.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think i've ever I think I've seen my

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<v Speaker 5>brother cry once.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like six. I mean, it wasn't like he

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<v Speaker 1>was fifteen or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this is your intent, but what

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<v Speaker 2>I like about your example is is that you're not

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<v Speaker 2>saying they can't feel You're just but you're also teaching

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<v Speaker 2>them to push through and manage the emotion. If they

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<v Speaker 2>want the fun to continue, they just got to hold

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<v Speaker 2>it together. Because, in all honesty, I if I'm hitting

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<v Speaker 2>them with a pillow right now, you could you can

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<v Speaker 2>do some damage. But I'm hitting them with pillow and

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<v Speaker 2>they're falling down on a bed covered with pillows, like

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<v Speaker 2>this is the easiest.

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<v Speaker 5>You weren't taking the pillow launching it in their face

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<v Speaker 5>to throw them up against.

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<v Speaker 2>A wall in the first ten minutes, like sibling fights.

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<v Speaker 2>That's like twenty minutes in when Gary's starting to feel winded,

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<v Speaker 2>when I'm starting getting tired, I'm like, I need somebody cry.

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<v Speaker 6>He starts.

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<v Speaker 2>He starts putting onions in the pillow case just to

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<v Speaker 2>get anything, something going, something to get it started.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's upun it's it's incumbent upon dads because just

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<v Speaker 1>by our nature to push that envelope, to push that

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<v Speaker 1>free play, to push the risk taking.

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<v Speaker 2>I love his example. He says, starting at eight years old,

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<v Speaker 2>you should find activities that your kid could do on

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<v Speaker 2>their own. And one of the examples, he says, you

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<v Speaker 2>take up to a science center and you say, go

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<v Speaker 2>roam around and do whatever you want. I will meet

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<v Speaker 2>you in the cafeteria. And here's the I've traveled with

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<v Speaker 2>high school kids for a choir, and what's interesting is

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<v Speaker 2>is that you know, people go, what if the kid

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<v Speaker 2>gets taken and all that stuff. But I think that

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<v Speaker 2>there's also that's a safe environment, right, It's an enclosed

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<v Speaker 2>space that you can also teach your kids to exist

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<v Speaker 2>in that discomfort and if they feel fear, then that's

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<v Speaker 2>going to make them more aware of their surroundings. Like

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<v Speaker 2>one of the young men on the trip, he was

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<v Speaker 2>we were traveling on this metro station late at night

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<v Speaker 2>in downtown Dallas, and he actually said about one of

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<v Speaker 2>the girls.

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<v Speaker 6>He goes.

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<v Speaker 2>These girls have no survival skills, Like they have no

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<v Speaker 2>way looking out for themselves.

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<v Speaker 4>They're not even aware of anything.

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<v Speaker 2>That's because they're like standing on their phones right next

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<v Speaker 2>to the doorway of the train, waiting for somebody to

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<v Speaker 2>write before the closes, just to grab the phone, and

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<v Speaker 2>then the train's gone, and you're like, and they're not

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<v Speaker 2>even thinking.

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<v Speaker 3>About that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know how you can if you haven't

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<v Speaker 2>experienced any kind of fear or discomfort.

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<v Speaker 1>My wife refers to that as aware bear. Ooh, people

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<v Speaker 1>to be being aware bear if you're ever in an

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<v Speaker 1>environment that you're not sure of, or you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>group of people whatever. It's childish, but it absolutely seals

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<v Speaker 1>the point of just just know what's going on, what's

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<v Speaker 1>aware of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's a I think we all could agree too,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a there's a there's a spectrum, right, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>boundary of what you don't want them to live in fear?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know so far. This is what way I've

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<v Speaker 2>raised my kids, and it seems to be working out,

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<v Speaker 2>is it. I also don't teach them and everybody's out

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<v Speaker 2>to get them somebody's trying to grab them at every turn, like.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want them to become a rodent where they're

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<v Speaker 2>just constantly looking over their shoulder at every moment like

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<v Speaker 2>that does.

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<v Speaker 3>That's no way to live either, A moment rodent.

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<v Speaker 2>Hoffman's in there rhyming, hmmm, tips, I like a were

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<v Speaker 2>bear in a moment romrote, I gotta work on this.