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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for tuning in to another show in the next

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<v Speaker 1>real family of film podcasts, I want to skip those

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<v Speaker 1>ads and get early access, become a member at true

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<v Speaker 1>story dot fm, slash Joint, and discover all the other

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<v Speaker 1>great perks that come with it. Chest Nuts roasting on

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<v Speaker 1>an open fire, Jack Cross nipping at your nose, and

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<v Speaker 1>Dwayne the Rock Johnson battling oh or not entirely sure

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<v Speaker 1>what he's battling. And Amazon's Red One. Let's just say

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<v Speaker 1>it involves Christmas and leave it at that. Look, we're

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna lie. This isn't exactly Miracle on thirty four Street.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not even jingle all the way. But in the

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<v Speaker 1>spirit of the holidays, we're embracing the weird, the wild,

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<v Speaker 1>and the wonderfully bizarre. Because Red One, despite its interesting choices,

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<v Speaker 1>does raise some interesting questions, questions like what exactly is

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<v Speaker 1>the plot again? And perhaps most importantly, what is Chris

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<v Speaker 1>Evans doing here? So grab your hot coco, settle in

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<v Speaker 1>by the fire, and prepare to have your holidays here

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<v Speaker 1>mildly disrupted. Join us for a special bonus episode of

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<v Speaker 1>the Film Board Crossover with our very good friend Matthew

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<v Speaker 1>Fox from Superhero ethics. Matthew's expertise in well superhero ethics

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<v Speaker 1>might actually be the key to unlocking the secrets of

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<v Speaker 1>the marvelification of Christmas in this movie. Or maybe we'll

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<v Speaker 1>just end up more confused than when we started. Either way,

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<v Speaker 1>it's bound to be a holly, jolly and slightly baffling ride.

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<v Speaker 1>So buckle up, filmboard fans, superhero ethics, fans, fans of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Christmas and snow and stuff, because we're going

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<v Speaker 1>on a sleigh ride straight to the heart of Red One.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, Hey, can anybody talk to me about Red One?

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<v Speaker 2>Pete went Red One? Is that really worth watching? Okay?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure?

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<v Speaker 2>And I draggooned him into being on this podcast with me.

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<v Speaker 2>So Pete's goon to party. How do you feel?

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<v Speaker 1>Let's just say your invitation was essentially, Hey, this movie's terrible,

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<v Speaker 1>Come talk about it with me on a podcast. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know why I said yes, but I did, and

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<v Speaker 1>I am here, and I am thrilled to be here.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I described my feeling about this movie as the cinematic

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent of, oh my god, this smells so bad.

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<v Speaker 3>Here smell this, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're on Because over the many generations, many

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<v Speaker 2>millions of people have said, Okay, I will smell this,

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<v Speaker 2>I will have this highly unpleasant experience, except you decided,

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<v Speaker 2>except for two seconds of olfactory torture, you would engage

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<v Speaker 2>in ninety five minutes of cinematic torture.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And here's the thing. This is what may come

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<v Speaker 1>as a surprise. I watched this with my wife and

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<v Speaker 1>daughter and they both were all smiles throughout this movie.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have to say, like the surprise was when

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<v Speaker 1>they would look over at me and say, why am

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<v Speaker 1>I having fun at this movie? This movie has no

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<v Speaker 1>right to make me smile like this? Why am I

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<v Speaker 1>smiling like this? And that I think is the is

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<v Speaker 1>the the the illusion of red one that actually makes

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<v Speaker 1>it play? And so I know we have several different

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<v Speaker 1>sort of angles we want to approach this movie. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I'll see my points until later. But I'm well,

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<v Speaker 1>get interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do you want to say you've presented a

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<v Speaker 2>very intry experience where you, the great cinophile have said

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<v Speaker 2>that they.

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<v Speaker 3>Were all smiles.

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<v Speaker 1>How you caught that right?

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<v Speaker 2>How do you, mister Pete Wright? Are you going to admit?

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<v Speaker 2>On national podcast, international podcast heard all around the world

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<v Speaker 2>by at least five hundred people. What did you think

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<v Speaker 2>of the movie?

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<v Speaker 1>I liked it more than you did.

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<v Speaker 3>How about that?

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<v Speaker 1>That's if you are the bar. I crested it a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>That's fair. That's fair.

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<v Speaker 2>So for those who've been living on a rock, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the movie that stars the Rock, and Chris Evans

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even mean to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>The Rock is just ubiquitous, like rock.

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<v Speaker 1>This is fascinatingly that they make Chris Evans look small.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So the premise of the movie is that, in

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<v Speaker 2>what I think is actually a really interesting bit of

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<v Speaker 2>folklore and world building that I would be behind if

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<v Speaker 2>it got its own show without the Rock in it.

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<v Speaker 2>That there's kind of a torch Wood like organization, a

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<v Speaker 2>secret organization that is tasked with the protection of mythological beings,

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<v Speaker 2>and that one of those mythological beings that's tasked with

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<v Speaker 2>protecting is Saint Nicholas Santa Claus as he is known

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<v Speaker 2>to the rest of us or just read one as

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<v Speaker 2>this is code name, and the Rock is an entity.

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<v Speaker 3>His name is cam I think Cameron Canyon something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, he's Callum cal Callum Rift Drift, which sounds like

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<v Speaker 4>a name that would only be found in a nineteen

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<v Speaker 4>nineties video game or being played by.

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<v Speaker 3>The rock yep and he is preter naturally old.

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<v Speaker 2>We're never actually told why, whether that's because he lives

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<v Speaker 2>at the North Pole where people age differently, or.

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<v Speaker 1>What they to imply he's not human.

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<v Speaker 3>They imply he's not human.

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<v Speaker 2>He's clearly not the size of an elf, and we

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<v Speaker 2>do see elves the size of Christmas elves that they're

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<v Speaker 2>often portrayed, so who knows what he is? But he

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<v Speaker 2>wants to retire, He wants to return to a normal life.

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<v Speaker 2>And why is that? Because there's just too many people

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<v Speaker 2>on the naughty List these days and he just he's

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<v Speaker 2>not seeing things in humanity that make him want to.

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<v Speaker 3>Do his job right.

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<v Speaker 2>And Santa Claus, in a horrifically anti labor message, spends

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<v Speaker 2>most of the movie trying to convince him that he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't get to go have his own life, but that

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<v Speaker 2>he should spend his life working for the capital establishment

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<v Speaker 2>that is Santa So first problem there, but he also

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<v Speaker 2>reminds him that, of course it is their job to

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<v Speaker 2>visit every boy and girl on Christmas Eve around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Second problem, which we'll discuss in a moment, because news flash,

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<v Speaker 2>there are non Christian boys and girls somewhere.

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<v Speaker 3>In the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody told the movie matter who don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Celebrate Christmas, Atheist whatever it is anyway, plot unbiased plot

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<v Speaker 2>summary that someone else would give but I wouldn't give.

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<v Speaker 3>So we then find out that Chris Evans.

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<v Speaker 2>Who is both the very best at his job but

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<v Speaker 2>also a down on his luck ne'er do well have

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<v Speaker 2>fun squaring that circle, is very very good at finding people,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's able to pierce the protections of the dome

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<v Speaker 2>of secrecy that they have around Red One in the

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<v Speaker 2>North Pole. But of course he doesn't know what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't believe in the North Pole or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>He only just knows that he's had a kid for

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<v Speaker 2>a number of years, which I'm not even again into

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<v Speaker 2>my problems with that. I'll get to that later. So

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<v Speaker 2>the point of all this being that he has he's

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<v Speaker 2>not really a good guy. He's he's a Level four

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<v Speaker 2>naughty lister, but when Santa Claus is kidnapped, he's the

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<v Speaker 2>only one they can bring in, and so him and

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<v Speaker 2>the Rock go on adventures where they fight lots of

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<v Speaker 2>CGI nonsense and they encounter Crampis and actually Crampus is

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<v Speaker 2>portrayed kind of awesomely in a way that I really like.

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<v Speaker 2>And it turns out the villain behind this is someone

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<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't have thought was the villain. And it's all

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<v Speaker 2>about a plot to stop having Santa because Santa is

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<v Speaker 2>too nice and rewards too many people for being nice

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<v Speaker 2>and that's not okay, and the bad people should be punished.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is sort of like if Batman took over

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Claus, except you know, a very bad version of it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And I.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't even think the movie's ideology is that the Santa

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't exist. It's just that Santa doesn't punish the naughty listers.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to have balance between We're gonna punish the

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<v Speaker 1>bad people forever at the hands of the Christmas Witch,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know we're we need Santa's juju to do

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<v Speaker 1>it now.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, part of the whole point of this is

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<v Speaker 2>that Santa is a mythological being, and thus most people

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<v Speaker 2>don't believe in Santa. Pete, you have children, I believe. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you also don't seem like a grinch, so I have

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<v Speaker 2>to imagine that your children. I think you've said you're

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<v Speaker 2>the Christians some form or another that your your children

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<v Speaker 2>got gifts under a Christmas tree at some point in time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, and I'm guessing that you and your

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<v Speaker 2>spouse or whoever it was provided that you put those

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<v Speaker 2>gifts under the tree, and then other people help put

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<v Speaker 2>them there under.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So all of that is this is a grueling

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<v Speaker 1>line of interrogation.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, okay, well we're geting. I'm sorry. It's personal, but

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<v Speaker 3>I had to make sure to establish it. Don't make

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<v Speaker 3>you the every man on the street. I am question.

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<v Speaker 2>I am that if presence had magically appeared after you

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<v Speaker 2>had gone to sleep while visions of sugar plums danced

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<v Speaker 2>in your heads, and you'd woken up and there were

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<v Speaker 2>more presents out there, would you believe in Santa Claus?

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<v Speaker 1>I would check the locks on my doors.

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<v Speaker 3>But if everyone at the PDA said, oh, yeah, we

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<v Speaker 3>had the.

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<v Speaker 1>Same thing that you get your delivery, yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a certain uh, there's a certain degree of uh

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<v Speaker 1>of just sort of separating my personal experience from the

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<v Speaker 1>microculture that we've created in our home and with our

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<v Speaker 1>family around how we handle, you know, the spirit of

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<v Speaker 1>generosity at Christmas time that I have to separate because

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<v Speaker 1>this movie would be an antagonist to that microculture. And

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<v Speaker 1>uh and so you know, I try to look at

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<v Speaker 1>these Chris, all of the Christmas movies really that have

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of vibe where a red suited man breaks

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<v Speaker 1>into your home and leaves stuff. It's just part of

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, I say, Heavy Air quotes ancient tradition

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<v Speaker 1>and mysticism that is the commercial Christmas industry. And as

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<v Speaker 1>many problems as I have with that, how well does

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<v Speaker 1>the movie execute on that mysticism in like playing the

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<v Speaker 1>hits in kind of a new way. Is this is

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<v Speaker 1>the question for this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that's part of why I asked it, because

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I thought it did that spectacularly badly. That's

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<v Speaker 2>honestly one of my biggest problems in the movie, in

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<v Speaker 2>part because excuse mean the circle of people who don't

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<v Speaker 2>live at the North Pole but who are aware of

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<v Speaker 2>the existence of Santa Claus is expanded dramatically in this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Among other things, one of the first things we see

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<v Speaker 2>is that it's the real Santa Claus at a mall.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, sure, he's pretending to be the fake Santa.

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<v Speaker 2>Who's the real Santa it's very miracle on thirty fourth Street.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm fine with that, But.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually thought that was clever.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought that was it was a nice way of

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<v Speaker 2>tying it into a long tradition of Christmas movies. But

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<v Speaker 2>then as he's leaving this entity that, I think we

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<v Speaker 2>can agree that there's now a secular American holiday called Christmas.

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<v Speaker 3>And for sure, it is for the most part.

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<v Speaker 2>Divorced Trump the relition, just holiday that many Christians, such

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<v Speaker 2>as myself celebrate. And there's a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 2>are non Christian, I think, who don't like the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that there's a secular American holiday that is directly derived

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<v Speaker 2>and uses the iconography of a Christian holiday.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's part we'll discuss in a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>But even as fairly secularized, the fact that it is

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<v Speaker 2>still the origin of it is the birth of a

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<v Speaker 2>Prince of peace, I feel like should in some way

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<v Speaker 2>be a little bit of discussion. When Santa Claus is

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<v Speaker 2>escorted by two fighter jets armed with missiles of the

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<v Speaker 2>United States Air Force, Yes, because allelujah, Amen, the pilots

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<v Speaker 2>know that Santa exists.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the flight controllers know that Santa exists.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, the circle of awareness is broad with this movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Many the international leader, world leaders know that Santa exists.

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<v Speaker 1>There is no question that Santa exists. That's the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of table stakes of the film.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that's on of my point, because I think

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, most Santa films have that agreed degree of disbelief,

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<v Speaker 2>of suspension of belief that you're willing to say, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>if Santa was real, that would mean every parent of

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<v Speaker 2>a child who celebrates Christmas in the world would know

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<v Speaker 2>that Santa was real, and the world will be a

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<v Speaker 2>very different place because of it, and probably would not

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<v Speaker 2>be a mythological being.

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<v Speaker 3>It would be like, you know, the Super post Office

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<v Speaker 3>once a year.

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<v Speaker 1>The Super post Office.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And most movies are allowed me to suspend that disbelief.

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<v Speaker 2>But I feel like this movie, by by trying to

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<v Speaker 2>make it more realistic, by trying to say like, here's

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<v Speaker 2>the mythologic, here's the group of humans that work for this,

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<v Speaker 2>here's the politics around it, just shattered the disbelief for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that I get where you're going, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think the thing that I struggle with is that in

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<v Speaker 1>order to make it more realistic, they have to introduce

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<v Speaker 1>bureaucracy to the Christmas industrial complex. Yes, right, yes, And

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<v Speaker 1>that becomes a challenge because that runs headlong into personal

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<v Speaker 1>and cultural belief systems around as you say, the Birth

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<v Speaker 1>of the Prince of Peace. So this movie presumes that

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<v Speaker 1>the only people who don't understand Santa are the people

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<v Speaker 1>who once believed and then lost that belief somehow, and

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<v Speaker 1>Jack in Chris Evans is the character that is sort

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<v Speaker 1>of our avatar for that that the in between, like

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<v Speaker 1>the people who ideologically don't even have a Santa in

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<v Speaker 1>their belief system, are completely ignored. That's a thing that

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<v Speaker 1>the movie decided we're not even going to pay any

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<v Speaker 1>attention to that. This movie is for the believers and

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<v Speaker 1>the people who don't believe anymore that we're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>bring back, and they talk about our numbers are down

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<v Speaker 1>year over year. Like that level of bureaucracy I think

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<v Speaker 1>just runs headlong into the peace and generosity thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would say that leads to perhaps my second

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<v Speaker 2>biggest problem with this movie, which is how aggressively it

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<v Speaker 2>universalizes the idea of Santa. Because I would say, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>what you said of it to ignorees, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>it ignores. There are a couple of times where like

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<v Speaker 2>one direct statement is that Santa is able to visit

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<v Speaker 2>every child on Earth, which I think is probably a

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<v Speaker 2>great surprise to a lot of Hindu children and Buddhist

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<v Speaker 2>children and the children celebrate Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I will say, I'll correct that statement. It presumes

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<v Speaker 1>all children of all nationalities are of the same ideology,

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<v Speaker 1>right right, Wait, that's the false presumption.

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<v Speaker 2>And even when it gets to like all these world

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<v Speaker 2>leaders who are like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to guess that the president of India and

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<v Speaker 2>the president of China and other places where Christianity is

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<v Speaker 2>a small minority are not terribly troubled by the idea.

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<v Speaker 3>Of that Santa Claus is not going to exist.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, And so to have this secret sort of

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<v Speaker 1>underground teleportation system that brings you from from a toy

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<v Speaker 1>store in New York to a toy store in Bangalore

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<v Speaker 1>is maybe not a thing that would be welcome by

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<v Speaker 1>the industrial state.

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<v Speaker 2>I would also say that as someone who has been

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<v Speaker 2>a part of you know, working in game stores for

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<v Speaker 2>a while and been in there for an email contact

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<v Speaker 2>with a lot of very remote game store owners who

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<v Speaker 2>have great problems getting packed getting product to their store. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>the store in New York could simply shove a box

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<v Speaker 2>through the closet, you know, and let it up here

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<v Speaker 2>in Bangalore.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that would save a lot of problems.

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<v Speaker 1>That would save a lot of problems. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all of those things are are a bit troublesome when

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<v Speaker 1>you stop and like really interrogate the movie and the movies,

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00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, report a belief system, and then we get

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<v Speaker 1>to the sort of retribution for past sins. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>imagined as I was watching it that that's a part

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<v Speaker 1>you would have a significant challenge with.

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<v Speaker 3>Honestly, I'm still on the universalizing of Christmas.

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00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I just one or two other things on that, and

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.519
<v Speaker 2>then we will get to that, a promise, I think.

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<v Speaker 3>For me.

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<v Speaker 2>The other reason why I find it so problematic is

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<v Speaker 2>if this was about a Chinese holiday, a Chinese New

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00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Year or something like that, I would feel very simp

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00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.799
<v Speaker 2>because the thing is, this movie doesn't exist in a

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00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.679
<v Speaker 2>cultural context where the idea of pushing Christmas onto people

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00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.679
<v Speaker 2>who don't want to celebrate Christmas is just fine and dandy.

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<v Speaker 2>We live in a world in which people on social

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<v Speaker 2>media believe there is quite literally a war on Christmas

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<v Speaker 2>and are therefore fighting a war against non Christmas, and

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<v Speaker 2>so all of that I think just added to why

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, this is just not a fun movie

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00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.519
<v Speaker 2>or a good movie. As well as all it's breaking

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00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:01.799
<v Speaker 2>the suspended to disbelief, and I just wanted to add

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<v Speaker 2>one more thing, and I promise we get off the

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<v Speaker 2>soapbox and go another Did you see the movie Noel

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<v Speaker 2>Spelled n Oe l e.

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00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes with Bill Hayter and Anna Kendrick.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's one of many many Santa movies that you've

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00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:15.559
<v Speaker 2>made that you that you've seen.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how many you've made, but you reference

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00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.359
<v Speaker 2>the fact. There's many many, and it's not the best

325
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.000
<v Speaker 2>by any means, but it's cute and has some nice points, sure,

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00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:26.559
<v Speaker 2>but it deals with this issue so much better in

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00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.400
<v Speaker 2>a three second scene that just I want to remember

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00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:31.839
<v Speaker 2>because it shows why it can be so different. Because

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00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.400
<v Speaker 2>in the movie, the idea is that there's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a new Santa of every generation and this time, why

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<v Speaker 2>can't it be a girl?

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<v Speaker 3>I think I think it's somewhat.

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<v Speaker 2>Heredity or heredity hereditary and like the Daughter of Santa

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00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.279
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. I don't remember, but this woman

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00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Noel becomes Santa Claus Anna Kendrick, and it's great, and

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00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.680
<v Speaker 2>she has some problems and foibles, like your classic first

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00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.480
<v Speaker 2>day on the job, no one believes in me kind

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00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:54.839
<v Speaker 2>of stuff.

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00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:55.799
<v Speaker 3>Fun movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's one scene where she's still figuring out exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what homes to go to. She goes down a chimney

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00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.279
<v Speaker 2>and finds a family that is playing Dradel and is

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00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:09.599
<v Speaker 2>very clearly very Jewish, right, and she just says to them, oh, sorry,

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00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.200
<v Speaker 2>wrong house, and they all kind of smile and nod

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00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.880
<v Speaker 2>and maybe offer her some socks or something, and she

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00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.160
<v Speaker 2>goes about a way. Yes to me, that is now

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00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:20.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of to me the bar of just what I

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00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>want a Santa Claus movie to meet is just like,

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00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:24.519
<v Speaker 2>because I guess that showed that you can have a

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00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:28.279
<v Speaker 2>very fun Santa Claus movie without having to say.

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<v Speaker 3>That every single child in the world celebrates.

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00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Christmas, yes, right, And I think I think this movie,

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<v Speaker 1>any of that nuanced sort of even three second sequences,

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00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:47.799
<v Speaker 1>would have gotten so in the way of the marvelization

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<v Speaker 1>of Christmas that is this movie that I don't think

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00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.759
<v Speaker 1>they could have made time for it. I just don't

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00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.519
<v Speaker 1>even think it crossed the minds of the filmmakers to

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00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:02.079
<v Speaker 1>approach with that sensibility. I mean, at no point did

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00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I feel like there was any generosity of spirit to

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<v Speaker 1>these other, you know, holiday worldviews.

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00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:10.400
<v Speaker 3>I think it's where it was tall.

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00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna say, for all those who are conspiracy

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00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.519
<v Speaker 2>nuts who say Jews control Hollywood, watch this movie because

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00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:18.000
<v Speaker 2>at the real they don't. Right.

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00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:19.920
<v Speaker 3>So tell me what.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that phrase, though, What do you mean by

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<v Speaker 2>the marvelization? Because I know you don't mean making marvelous,

368
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.319
<v Speaker 2>you mean making like Marvel the MC.

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00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah, Marvel is a well. I mean, look at

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<v Speaker 1>who you have. You have Captain America, you have saz

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<v Speaker 1>Or what's his name, Black Adam, SHA's zame Black Adam.

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00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.359
<v Speaker 1>You have these these heroes of of like hero screen

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<v Speaker 1>and what else are you going to do with them

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<v Speaker 1>in this kind of movie? This is I think the

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<v Speaker 1>the we have these characters and we have a holiday,

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00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.640
<v Speaker 1>what can we do with them? What if Captain America

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00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.720
<v Speaker 1>and Black Adam were in a movie together and we

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00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.519
<v Speaker 1>were and we just wanted to throw a parade of

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<v Speaker 1>pixels at the audience, this is what you would get.

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<v Speaker 1>And it is it is. It is a two hundred

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00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:11.079
<v Speaker 1>and fifty million dollar Christmas movie. That is the most

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00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:16.079
<v Speaker 1>absurd statement we can make about this movie. It's absurd

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00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.759
<v Speaker 1>born in a manger because they were so poor. You

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00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.480
<v Speaker 1>goes on too, right, right, Like, this is not a

385
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.079
<v Speaker 1>story that needed to be told. If I never see

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00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:31.880
<v Speaker 1>massive alpha snowmen on a beach again, I'll be okay.

387
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Because it was Also it was a movie that was

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00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.079
<v Speaker 2>very much about saving Christmas, to save the kids, and

389
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.599
<v Speaker 2>that kids have the innocence that they're still on the

390
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.799
<v Speaker 2>nice list, and that that's why Callum should continue to

391
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:49.039
<v Speaker 2>be a wage slave in the industrial capitalism that is

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<v Speaker 2>known as the North Pole.

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00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:57.359
<v Speaker 3>But it's also that aggressively not a kid's movie.

394
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, like there's cursing, which is fine, but like there's

395
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.039
<v Speaker 2>a moment where they're on the beach in Antigua, as

396
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.799
<v Speaker 2>you said, because that's where they go to fight the snowmen,

397
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and we get a couple scenes of women walking by

398
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:10.839
<v Speaker 2>in the kind of bikinis that people often wear in

399
00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.160
<v Speaker 2>which a lot of butt cheek is exposed. Sure, and

400
00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>I just felt like, yeah, it's a marvelization because it's

401
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:20.480
<v Speaker 2>a way of being like, no, we don't want parents

402
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.480
<v Speaker 2>to bring their eight year olds.

403
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:23.319
<v Speaker 3>We want fourteen year olds to come to this movie

404
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:23.920
<v Speaker 3>on their own.

405
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and tell mom, oh, mom, I'm going to a

406
00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Santa Claus movie.

407
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.200
<v Speaker 3>It's fine. Oh look at the butt cheeks on that one.

408
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, and the fact that this movie, I mean it

409
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.359
<v Speaker 1>even in theatrically, I think it's just about, you know,

410
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.119
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and seventy five million dollar box office on

411
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.119
<v Speaker 1>a two hundred and fifty million dollar budget. But now

412
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.240
<v Speaker 1>it's on Amazon right now, it's it's it's a draw

413
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:49.559
<v Speaker 1>for subscriptions and it's a parade of shopping and products,

414
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.799
<v Speaker 1>and so we'll never know how it truly fares. But

415
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.720
<v Speaker 1>now it's available for everyone. Now it's available for other

416
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.799
<v Speaker 1>kids who just want to see the rock and you

417
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.240
<v Speaker 1>know in the movie. So you know, is that is

418
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.920
<v Speaker 1>that a neutral good in the world.

419
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:04.519
<v Speaker 3>I don't.

420
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know.

421
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.359
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's it's hard to say. It's hard.

422
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm the only one who's like, you know, back off

423
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:13.720
<v Speaker 2>with those sexist ideas of what kind of bikinies people

424
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.680
<v Speaker 2>should wear and stuff like that. I'm just saying, it

425
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.279
<v Speaker 2>just seems so it's not even that, as you said,

426
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.160
<v Speaker 2>this movie lacks of generosity of spirit is it just

427
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.079
<v Speaker 2>feels like such a cynical cash grab, you know, the

428
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.400
<v Speaker 2>inclusion of stuff like that, or like having curse words

429
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.279
<v Speaker 2>very specifically and like, look, we're an adult movie, we

430
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.279
<v Speaker 2>can have curse words.

431
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.720
<v Speaker 3>It just felt like, I don't know, it just it

432
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:37.440
<v Speaker 3>was all the reasons.

433
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I was like, there's nothing about the spirit of anything

434
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>in this movie except capitalism and commercialism, which I guess

435
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:45.319
<v Speaker 2>is what Christmas is today.

436
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:46.759
<v Speaker 3>So that's probably that's.

437
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Your secular holiday, right, that's the secular holiday of Christmas.

438
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, right, which is not quite the holiday of

439
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>the generosity that you were talking about.

440
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.599
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, no, so.

441
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's yeah, let's get into the uh retribution and punishment

442
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.960
<v Speaker 2>of it all. First of all, ask have you seen

443
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 2>the movie Crampus or have you seen other things about

444
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:07.799
<v Speaker 2>the story of Crampus?

445
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh yes, Say a little bit more.

446
00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 2>About that, because this was the first time I was

447
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.599
<v Speaker 2>seeing a Crampus on screen.

448
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.319
<v Speaker 1>The Crampis movie is, So you haven't seen the movie

449
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.799
<v Speaker 1>cramps I have not. Okay, the Crampis movie. It was

450
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:28.440
<v Speaker 1>fascinating because it portrays the relationship with Crampis as a

451
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.720
<v Speaker 1>generational horror as a thing that haunts families for their

452
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:38.000
<v Speaker 1>past ills, and it is a it's a horrifying creature.

453
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.480
<v Speaker 1>It was a horror movie and it comes with minions

454
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.480
<v Speaker 1>in the forest, and it is it was a deeply

455
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:52.480
<v Speaker 1>scary generational trauma processing experience. And so I don't have

456
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.839
<v Speaker 1>a like, I haven't done any sort of scholarship on

457
00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Crampus as a as a historical, you know, creature, but

458
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 1>I do I do have a sense of what they

459
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:06.920
<v Speaker 1>were trying to go for here, and the fact that

460
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.759
<v Speaker 1>it ends up being a parade of essentially like Clyde

461
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Barker's Night Breed characters, I thought was low key fantastic.

462
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Like that part of the movie I thought was was

463
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:20.599
<v Speaker 1>pretty fun.

464
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

465
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:25.200
<v Speaker 2>So in the movie, we learned that Crampis is Santa's brother.

466
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.119
<v Speaker 2>They were adopted, but they're no longer speaking with each other,

467
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.759
<v Speaker 2>and it used to be that the two of them

468
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 2>were partners on Christmas and that Crampis was the one

469
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:35.400
<v Speaker 2>who came up with the whole idea of the Naughty List.

470
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Casanta just wanted to bring gifts and presents to everybody.

471
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.200
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole Christian debate over universalism in two different

472
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.319
<v Speaker 2>schools of that, which I won't even get into, but

473
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:46.839
<v Speaker 2>that like you can kind of do an interesting.

474
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:47.960
<v Speaker 3>Thing on the theology of those two.

475
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but that somewhere along the line they had a

476
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.279
<v Speaker 2>falling out, and that Santa still keeps the naughty list

477
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:58.599
<v Speaker 2>to some extent, but that for the most part, Crampis

478
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 2>now has his own area that is just him and

479
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.519
<v Speaker 2>him alone and hits his people, and honestly, it looks

480
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:06.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of fun like they just party all the time.

481
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.599
<v Speaker 2>They're basically like scary looking vikings, Like they party and

482
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.519
<v Speaker 2>they drink and they play games where people get hurt

483
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and maybe occasionally die, but everyone's kind of in on

484
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.200
<v Speaker 2>the joke and enjoying it. And the fear is that

485
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.039
<v Speaker 2>when Santa is kidnapped, that it must be them, and

486
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.039
<v Speaker 2>so our heroes go and invade this world in breaking

487
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the treaty that was made between Crampus and Santa that

488
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.119
<v Speaker 2>neither one would ever enter the land of the other again,

489
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:35.000
<v Speaker 2>making me like, give me a Torchwood style show about

490
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>this mythological organization. I'm here for it, especially if you

491
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.720
<v Speaker 2>don't just do Western mythology. I'm so all over it.

492
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 3>Give me an Easter, buddy, who's not Hugh Jackman please.

493
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they even tease it with the headless horseman,

494
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Like I thought that was a really nice little nod.

495
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean that scene felt straight out an

496
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.119
<v Speaker 2>episode of Torchwood, you know, for any of the other

497
00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Minutehouse thirteen. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and with me. Now when

498
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:03.119
<v Speaker 2>as as the person who's the head of it, you know,

499
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:09.319
<v Speaker 2>of course she's in the natural, you know, sure, But

500
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.240
<v Speaker 2>but it winds up that like, yes, they seem to

501
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 2>believe in more retribution, and I have definitely some thoughts

502
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.480
<v Speaker 2>of that, but I appreciate that he's not presented as

503
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>evil and that forgives spoilers.

504
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.839
<v Speaker 3>We eventually learned that he is not the reason.

505
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Why this all happened, and that he helps Santa fight the

506
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.000
<v Speaker 2>actual villain, who does seem to have much more of

507
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.160
<v Speaker 2>a like everyone is naughty, We're just going to assume that,

508
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.519
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to like, it's not that naughty means

509
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:37.079
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to get gifts, which I think is

510
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.119
<v Speaker 2>all Crampus ever wanted, but that naughty means you're actually

511
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.599
<v Speaker 2>going you're going to get full on retribution and punishment,

512
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to punish everyone with the same hammer.

513
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.079
<v Speaker 1>So a form of isolation for the rest of eternity, right,

514
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:49.880
<v Speaker 1>a slob.

515
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:52.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you told a little fib about your sister,

516
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 2>or if you murder ten people, same thing, you're isolated

517
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 2>for all of eternity.

518
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, and what they're robbing there is not just like,

519
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.440
<v Speaker 1>it's not just individual punishment. It's the theft of community,

520
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 1>which is the soul of this sort of holiday experience, right,

521
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.759
<v Speaker 1>that we come together, and this presumes to take away

522
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:17.319
<v Speaker 1>togetherness from so many, so it becomes a punishment not

523
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.440
<v Speaker 1>just for the people who are put into snow globes,

524
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.200
<v Speaker 1>but a punishment for the world. She goes around saying

525
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 1>we're going to make the world a nicer place, but

526
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:29.519
<v Speaker 1>everybody's being taken from someone, and that is a setup

527
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 1>for massive, unsettling grief.

528
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And I think that was part of why, Like, I

529
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.440
<v Speaker 2>think it was hard for me to get that because

530
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm so angry about all the other from right, But

531
00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:41.480
<v Speaker 2>as you talk about it, you remind me, Yeah, that

532
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.039
<v Speaker 2>makes sense, because that actually is you know. I think

533
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I once heard someone say, like everything about Christmas comes

534
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.200
<v Speaker 2>down to do you see it as a holiday of

535
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>giving or a holiday of getting? Yeah, and I really

536
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.079
<v Speaker 2>love that that idea because you know, yeah, it's about like,

537
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.519
<v Speaker 2>is the joy in finding gifts and giving gifts to others?

538
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:01.799
<v Speaker 3>Or is the joy and the kind of like I

539
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:02.880
<v Speaker 3>want to get all the gifts.

540
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.079
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not going to blame an eight year old

541
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.119
<v Speaker 2>for being materialistic, but I think that, like, whether secular

542
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.240
<v Speaker 2>or not, gift giving holidays of all sorts can be

543
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 2>a way of helping kids through that, you know, And

544
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.200
<v Speaker 2>like my mom would always tell me before my birthday,

545
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:18.680
<v Speaker 2>she'd be like, yes, you're going to get a lot

546
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>of gifts today, but remember today, you know the happiness

547
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.519
<v Speaker 2>that you feel from the gifts you're giving. Keep that

548
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.519
<v Speaker 2>mind every time we're going to go shopping because you're

549
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:31.519
<v Speaker 2>going to Little Johnny's birthday party, because that's the joy

550
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>you're giving them. And Christmas is my mother's favorite holiday,

551
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 2>and I cannot help but associate with her.

552
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 3>And I think that that's it's so funny.

553
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:40.759
<v Speaker 2>That so much of the other parts of the movie

554
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 2>don't get this, because I do think you're right. The

555
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:46.640
<v Speaker 2>meaning of that, the theology of it, the philosophy of

556
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:49.079
<v Speaker 2>it is very much what Christmas should be about. It's

557
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:50.160
<v Speaker 2>the coming together of people.

558
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, right, And I think the movie spends so

559
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.880
<v Speaker 1>much time on the pixel parade that it is easy,

560
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 1>to your point to get lost in the multiple messages

561
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.759
<v Speaker 1>that feel like are sort of shoehorned in when you're

562
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>standing in a forest of ideological sort of fortitude, So.

563
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Where where what do you think of cramp As as

564
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:19.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of the one kind of standing in the middle

565
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:20.119
<v Speaker 2>of these two.

566
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, as always with these characters, I like the I

567
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.200
<v Speaker 1>like the presentation of him that he's he's less of

568
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:32.799
<v Speaker 1>a of a a horrific monster in present he is

569
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:37.599
<v Speaker 1>a monster in presentation right, the many horned Crampus, he's giant.

570
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.960
<v Speaker 1>He is presented as he's almost a low key character, right,

571
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.119
<v Speaker 1>He's he's playful. They're playing a game called Crampis Slap,

572
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 1>which I found low key delightful, Like that just seems

573
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>like a thing that would be fun. And you know,

574
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm one of the people that absolutely loved like Mary

575
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:02.279
<v Speaker 1>Slapsmith's on How I Met You Mother, that was like,

576
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.839
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I have such an affinity for

577
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.279
<v Speaker 1>slapping games, but I saw this and I thought this

578
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.960
<v Speaker 1>is really fun. And then he is presented as the

579
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.079
<v Speaker 1>savior at the end but also the ex of the

580
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 1>Christmas Witch right that they had a deeper relationship. And

581
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I thought, okay, now this is Santa Barbara. Now this

582
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.079
<v Speaker 1>has gone upbridge too far, right, like.

583
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:29.079
<v Speaker 3>This is CW doing this ant mythology world.

584
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.960
<v Speaker 1>What are we doing here? This was an example of

585
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.480
<v Speaker 1>people writing themselves into a corner as a game to

586
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:37.839
<v Speaker 1>see if they could write their way out and not

587
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>really being able to do it. And so we have

588
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 1>to do a lot of hand waving to get to

589
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:43.359
<v Speaker 1>the end.

590
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Which I will say is one of my other like

591
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:49.640
<v Speaker 2>a small little issue, but actually I think is a

592
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.559
<v Speaker 2>much bigger thing. Fat phobia is a part of our

593
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.319
<v Speaker 2>world and certainly is a big, big issue in cinema,

594
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.960
<v Speaker 2>and like you know, it's so brave of an actor

595
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.079
<v Speaker 2>or actress to gain in order to play a part.

596
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:01.920
<v Speaker 3>And JK.

597
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Simmons is an interesting choice for Santa, and it's generally

598
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>not seen as a you know, fat, jolly old man.

599
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 3>And they make a point of this, like he doesn't

600
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.400
<v Speaker 3>even wear a fat suit when he is the Santa

601
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:14.039
<v Speaker 3>in the mall.

602
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>And then they make a point later to show him

603
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.640
<v Speaker 2>working out and to show how important.

604
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:21.519
<v Speaker 3>Like it's not just that he's buff.

605
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.680
<v Speaker 2>It's that they like they have kind of like that

606
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:25.880
<v Speaker 2>training scene where him and the rock or like lifting

607
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.519
<v Speaker 2>weights together.

608
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.039
<v Speaker 3>What was your take on that, Like, why was that

609
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:30.440
<v Speaker 3>in there? And what did it mean to be in there?

610
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, my first thought was this is and I should

611
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.440
<v Speaker 1>say I'm a huge fan of JK. Simmons. He is

612
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.559
<v Speaker 1>a principal in my top favorite movie, in my top

613
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:46.200
<v Speaker 1>four on letterbox Whiplash. I adore JK. Simmons.

614
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.680
<v Speaker 3>He's the best ja Jon and Jamison. I think whatever, guess.

615
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh for sure, for sure. I my first thought was,

616
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 1>this is an interesting exercise in ego that we're gonna

617
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.519
<v Speaker 1>take a guy. And those pictures of him training for

618
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.599
<v Speaker 1>this movie leaked a long time ago, right, he has

619
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 1>been working to get cut for a long time, and

620
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.839
<v Speaker 1>I wonder how much of this was I Can I

621
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.799
<v Speaker 1>do it right? Can I be a different kind of

622
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 1>Santa in a way that tests my own personal ability

623
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>to shred? And that was my first thought, that this

624
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.880
<v Speaker 1>was an exercise in ego. I did not consider this

625
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:37.079
<v Speaker 1>as a hyper reactionary approach to fat phobia until you

626
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.680
<v Speaker 1>look at the rest of the movie and realize this

627
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.359
<v Speaker 1>movie is this is the again. I have to fall

628
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 1>back to marvelization, right there are the marvel is the

629
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.039
<v Speaker 1>same aesthetic, right, we don't get any of the characters

630
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>that are alternate bodied are not heroes, right right, And

631
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.279
<v Speaker 1>that's this movie. And look, the alternate bodied characters who

632
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 1>are not heroes are elves that are the more of

633
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.359
<v Speaker 1>the sort of fairy tale elves. They are in their

634
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:18.519
<v Speaker 1>own way compared to Santa and family. They are grotesqueries

635
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 1>in this film.

636
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.680
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's a really good way to put it.

637
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.079
<v Speaker 2>And everything I wanna say is I don't think this

638
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.599
<v Speaker 2>is intentional in the slightest, but I think it's one

639
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>more way that they were sort of like, let's pick

640
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.480
<v Speaker 2>up any parts of the Santa mythos that we want

641
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 2>without any consideration for what the choices were making.

642
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:35.480
<v Speaker 3>Means.

643
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because there is a reason why Santa is betrayed

644
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 2>as fat and jolly. And you can get very deep

645
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>into like human sociology and psychology that like, you know, originally,

646
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:49.519
<v Speaker 2>like you wanted to be fat in the winter because

647
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:52.000
<v Speaker 2>there was less food and unless you consume the fact

648
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 2>you had, you would die. Yeah, And if you were

649
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:58.400
<v Speaker 2>thin on November first, you were not living to March first, right, and.

650
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.680
<v Speaker 1>That's one thing we can guarantee. This Santa was cold

651
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 1>as a lot.

652
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's not an issue. But also I think

653
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.199
<v Speaker 2>there is something about and here again I am going

654
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.039
<v Speaker 2>to draw on the Christian themes of it, but I

655
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.760
<v Speaker 2>think it applies even as it becoming secular. One of

656
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:21.079
<v Speaker 2>the basises of Christmas, which is also the basis of

657
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.559
<v Speaker 2>the winter solstice that a lot of it is drawn from.

658
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 2>It's also the basis of Hanuka. It's the basis of

659
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different cultures. Middle of the winter holiday

660
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:34.280
<v Speaker 2>is that in the middle of the winter, when resources

661
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:38.039
<v Speaker 2>are at their scarcest, we think we should all we

662
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:40.119
<v Speaker 2>have to hoard our resources, that there's not give me

663
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.400
<v Speaker 2>enough for us, And so the idea of celebrating generosity

664
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.400
<v Speaker 2>and of giving to others is very intentional at a

665
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.599
<v Speaker 2>time when you should be keeping it all for yourself.

666
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:53.960
<v Speaker 2>And from my mother, that was one of the most

667
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>essential things, you know. And like, yes, diet culture is

668
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:00.880
<v Speaker 2>not healthy and the slightest but also like OBC can

669
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.719
<v Speaker 2>be a real thing. Like I'm not even to touch

670
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.440
<v Speaker 2>all that, but I know there's a lot of different sides.

671
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:06.639
<v Speaker 2>But like you know, my mother's biggest atage was there's

672
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:10.599
<v Speaker 2>no there's no diets on Christmas. Like Christmas is abundance.

673
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Christmas is eat what you want, enjoy what you want.

674
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 2>All the little things that say, oh, I'm gonna feel

675
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:18.760
<v Speaker 2>guilty for eating that, I'm gonna feel guilty for playing

676
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 2>this game instead of working, Like none of that exists

677
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.960
<v Speaker 2>on Christmas. And to me, the fact Jolly Santa Claus

678
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:27.760
<v Speaker 2>is the is the living representation of so much of that.

679
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there's a so I agree with all

680
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 1>of that, and I think in my core that's that

681
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:39.039
<v Speaker 1>aligns with my belief system. If I take a step

682
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:41.559
<v Speaker 1>back and just look at the movie and JK. Simmons

683
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 1>portrayal in the film, I enjoy the swing that they

684
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:50.000
<v Speaker 1>take with the character, right. I enjoy the presentation of him.

685
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.920
<v Speaker 1>There are certain shots that I think are illuminating to

686
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the character of Santa and the joy that this Santa

687
00:35:56.039 --> 00:36:00.360
<v Speaker 1>gets in doing the job. In this film, the close

688
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.800
<v Speaker 1>up with a super wide like a twelve twelve millionaire

689
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 1>lens where he's in you just get his face with

690
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.239
<v Speaker 1>the goggles and he's in like slay warp is delightful,

691
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Like there's just no doubt it is a delightful and

692
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.719
<v Speaker 1>exuberant expression of the role that he plays in this universe.

693
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.119
<v Speaker 1>So there are these moments in this film that I

694
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:30.679
<v Speaker 1>think actually sell the message of that we're talking about

695
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:34.719
<v Speaker 1>with this portrayal of Santa. But it's hard. I think

696
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:39.079
<v Speaker 1>the challenge is wrecked is reconciling that with you know

697
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>what it's what it's saying to, you know, the marvelization

698
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.280
<v Speaker 1>of our holiday.

699
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think that's fair and I'm not

700
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 2>against that. Like I'm not saying they needed to put

701
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Jack Simmons in a fat suit or hire a larger actor,

702
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:55.320
<v Speaker 2>the whole other ethical questions about fatsuits.

703
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:56.360
<v Speaker 3>You're not even to get into that.

704
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.639
<v Speaker 2>I think you could have had him and even have

705
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:02.079
<v Speaker 2>him looking very buff and just not comment on it.

706
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.760
<v Speaker 2>It was the fact that they made a big deal

707
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:05.719
<v Speaker 2>of it and showed him working out and all that,

708
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 2>where I was like, are you gonna leave us anything

709
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.639
<v Speaker 2>about Santa? What are you?

710
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay? But Devil's Advocate, he's with the rock right, Like

711
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 1>there is some comedy, I think some intended comedy of

712
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:24.719
<v Speaker 1>having him say okay, let's go heavy, like he is

713
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.079
<v Speaker 1>the star of the gym while standing next to the Rock,

714
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 1>who is objectively a fortress of a human being.

715
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, who are some of the biggest weightlifters in

716
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.519
<v Speaker 2>the world. People with beer guts. Oh, you can be

717
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.679
<v Speaker 2>incredibly strong and incredibly good at those things. Yeah, without

718
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.039
<v Speaker 2>having flat you know, washboard apps or whatever.

719
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 3>It is.

720
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely but that's what I mean, Like, the joke has

721
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:53.400
<v Speaker 1>to exist with the performers that we have. And Hollywood

722
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.000
<v Speaker 1>has said the Rock is an example of a fortress,

723
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 1>right right, and JK. Simmons next to this you would

724
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:04.880
<v Speaker 1>never expect you would just never.

725
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 3>Expect him to do that.

726
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.920
<v Speaker 1>So I you know, I sort of feel like, you know,

727
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.920
<v Speaker 1>we're separating the art from the artists. I kind of

728
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:18.559
<v Speaker 1>applaud JK. Simmons for taking on the role for as

729
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.760
<v Speaker 1>little as he's in it. He's not actually in the

730
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.480
<v Speaker 1>movie all that much. No, he's the mcguffin much more

731
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 1>than he's a protagonist.

732
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 3>For sure.

733
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:29.079
<v Speaker 1>And there's a lot about Okay, let's talk just briefly

734
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 1>about Chris Evans and the setup that they give us

735
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:33.960
<v Speaker 1>for this role that Chris Evans is says you said

736
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.599
<v Speaker 1>in the in your opening, he's the guy you can

737
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 1>find anyone. He is useless in this movie, right, we don't.

738
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:45.920
<v Speaker 1>He is under skilled. He's constantly talking about how he's

739
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:50.280
<v Speaker 1>never done this before. Why is why did we need

740
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:54.679
<v Speaker 1>him in this movie were it not for the spectacle

741
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:57.079
<v Speaker 1>of putting Chris Evans next to the Rock like it

742
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 1>was his part was weirdly underwritten for this film.

743
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.519
<v Speaker 2>See I think part of this maybe I just don't

744
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.320
<v Speaker 2>like The Rock. I don't find the Rock entertaining. I

745
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:11.800
<v Speaker 2>am always like for me, Vin Diesel and The Rock

746
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.880
<v Speaker 2>have kind of had similar career paths, except that Vin

747
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Diesel has always been in the shadow of the Rock.

748
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:19.639
<v Speaker 2>And I will forever think that's the fault. That's the

749
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:21.880
<v Speaker 2>best sign of the failure of big Hollywood, because I

750
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.960
<v Speaker 2>think Vin Diesel is just an amazingly better actor, much

751
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.599
<v Speaker 2>better looking, and Franklin doesn't have all the nonsense in

752
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the contract that the Rock does.

753
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:29.960
<v Speaker 3>He always has to be.

754
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:33.199
<v Speaker 2>The hero and well and look ruined Black Adam And

755
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:34.519
<v Speaker 2>we have a whole podcast about.

756
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>That you can go check out, of course, and look

757
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.519
<v Speaker 1>at the legacy of this movie. Will forever be that

758
00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:42.320
<v Speaker 1>The Rock costs this movie an extra fifty million dollars

759
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 1>for his craziness, his tardiness, his his Shenanigans.

760
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 2>And so so there's a part of me that's like,

761
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:53.760
<v Speaker 2>if Hollywood had a Naughty List and wasn't just putting

762
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 2>everyone on the Night List at some point, wouldn't say

763
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:57.559
<v Speaker 2>that someone say The Rock you're not worth the money.

764
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:00.920
<v Speaker 2>But even so, take it back to what you were saying,

765
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I think this goes to a larger question in filmmaking,

766
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:09.039
<v Speaker 2>which is what is your responsibility in telling an original

767
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:12.159
<v Speaker 2>story versus picking up pieces that have a lot of

768
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.159
<v Speaker 2>meaning to other people and telling your version of a

769
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.480
<v Speaker 2>story with them. Because if you gave me a story

770
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:25.159
<v Speaker 2>about JK. Simmons as a completely fictionalized not Santa being

771
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.119
<v Speaker 2>that still was a better weightlifter than The Rock and

772
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Chris Evans in The Rock and told us all of

773
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.440
<v Speaker 2>that outside of the realm of a Santa story, I'm

774
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 2>totally fine with it. I'm not gonna watch it because

775
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:37.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to enjoy it, But if it makes

776
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 2>two hundred million dollars or five hundred million dollars, sure,

777
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad people had fun with that, and I might

778
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:43.239
<v Speaker 2>actually see because I love Chris even so much so

779
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.039
<v Speaker 2>his acting talent, as you said, was horribly under used

780
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.599
<v Speaker 2>in this but when you pick up the mantle of Santa,

781
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:51.880
<v Speaker 2>which does have a lot of meaning for people and

782
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.360
<v Speaker 2>probably should be parodied more. And like if this was

783
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:58.159
<v Speaker 2>actually just fill on skewing Santa and it was about

784
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:02.800
<v Speaker 2>like a labor rights fight at the North Pole, and

785
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:04.440
<v Speaker 2>it was that he worked out all the time, but

786
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 2>he wears a fat suit when he goes out, Like,

787
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I would love that, give me that any day.

788
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, for instance, what's your perspective on Arthur Christmas? Right,

789
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Arthur Christmas does a change of hands in an animated format,

790
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 1>but it changes it. It does approach some big swings

791
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.920
<v Speaker 1>about the nature of Christmas and what the symbols mean.

792
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it's fascinating.

793
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:26.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I haven't seen that, but I'm sure it is.

794
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I just mean, like, it's fine to take a symbol

795
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.039
<v Speaker 2>and take it in a new way, but have some

796
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:34.519
<v Speaker 2>respect for what the symbol originally means, even if you're

797
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:36.719
<v Speaker 2>disagreeing with that, right, And it just felt like the

798
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:38.320
<v Speaker 2>whole body shape body thing.

799
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:40.559
<v Speaker 3>You know, in a world where people are.

800
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Just told again and again, don't you shouldn't eat so

801
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:44.440
<v Speaker 2>much a Christmas because look at your weight or this

802
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:48.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's a small thing, but

803
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:49.599
<v Speaker 2>I think it's just why, it's why it kind of

804
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:51.480
<v Speaker 2>oversized feeling for me.

805
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, unfortunate way to phrase that.

806
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.880
<v Speaker 2>But last thing I'll say is I do think there

807
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 2>is one important aspect to Chris Evans's character, even if

808
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I think the whole thing with him and his son

809
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.239
<v Speaker 2>was ridiculously schlocky and over the top, but I think

810
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.159
<v Speaker 2>it's supposed that. To me, the failure of the Christmas

811
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Witch ideology is once you do a naughty thing, you

812
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.880
<v Speaker 2>are forever on the naughty list. Yes, and it's the

813
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 2>most trope troped story in all of Hollywood. But the

814
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:20.400
<v Speaker 2>idea that a person who is bad can become good,

815
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the role Chris Evans's character plays more

816
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:24.840
<v Speaker 2>than anything that's the movie, and he does a fine

817
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:25.320
<v Speaker 2>job of that.

818
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And you know, the ultimately the message of the

819
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:32.079
<v Speaker 1>movie is that every moment is a moment to choose

820
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 1>to do good right right, And I like that message.

821
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Like everything that we're talking about, that's sort of a

822
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:43.840
<v Speaker 1>seed that is good for Humanity's let's do more of that. Yeah,

823
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>So there are pieces in here that I think are good.

824
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.119
<v Speaker 1>I have to ask you, like, with all that is

825
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:53.639
<v Speaker 1>frustrating about this movie. Can you give me something you

826
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:56.039
<v Speaker 1>legitimately liked about it?

827
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Crampas I thought was awesome.

828
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, good, So we're definitely in the bag on Crampus.

829
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think it is pretty well. This

830
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:07.199
<v Speaker 2>is not the worst movie I've ever seen. It is

831
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 2>probably the worst Christmas movie I've ever seen and the

832
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:10.320
<v Speaker 2>one that made me angriest.

833
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.360
<v Speaker 3>But you know, it's it's it's got something redeeming.

834
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we have a Bonnie Hunt was one of those.

835
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:24.400
<v Speaker 1>It was a felt stunt castie to me. For some reason.

836
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.639
<v Speaker 1>She's a face that a lot of people know, especially

837
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:32.679
<v Speaker 1>coming from Sabrina and or not Sabrina right anyway, She's

838
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>just a comic face that I think a lot of

839
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:36.000
<v Speaker 1>people know. She was great, Lucy.

840
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:39.199
<v Speaker 2>The best comment I saw is that she was doing

841
00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:43.039
<v Speaker 2>her best January Jones impression, which January Jones is the

842
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:47.119
<v Speaker 2>character from The X Men who, and that this actress

843
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:50.599
<v Speaker 2>played Sally Draper. January Jones was played by Sally Draper's mother,

844
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.079
<v Speaker 2>so that's kind of fitting that she is like doing that.

845
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 1>But yes, sure, Lucy lou was interesting to see her again,

846
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.920
<v Speaker 1>an interesting choice, and I think she plays the mingnaw When.

847
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:05.440
<v Speaker 3>I said, now Win and Matt Lucy Lou, I'm sorry.

848
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, That's why I brought it up because I think

849
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I think she and Mingnaw Win have a corner on

850
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:15.159
<v Speaker 1>authoritative Asian women in film and TV, and so she

851
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.960
<v Speaker 1>did great. Nick Kroll, we're just stand on Nick Kroll.

852
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 3>Who's that?

853
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:22.559
<v Speaker 1>Nick Kroll is?

854
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Uh?

855
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:28.199
<v Speaker 1>He was the protected by the Carmenians on the beach.

856
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.159
<v Speaker 3>He was, Yes, he is the guy who's oft in vanned.

857
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:32.920
<v Speaker 3>He comes from the League.

858
00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:35.119
<v Speaker 1>He comes from the League of a web show about

859
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.920
<v Speaker 1>the stand up and it's it Is The League is.

860
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.159
<v Speaker 1>And I have to admit I am a huge fan

861
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.559
<v Speaker 1>of The League. I watched every episode. It's a very

862
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:46.760
<v Speaker 1>very funny show. It is completely foul mouthed and and

863
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:50.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, I loved it. He is a stand up.

864
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.719
<v Speaker 1>He is a consummate creator and I think a genuinely

865
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.440
<v Speaker 1>funny guy. I always have an interesting kind of relationship

866
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:03.000
<v Speaker 1>when I see him in films that aren't that yeah right,

867
00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:04.760
<v Speaker 1>he's a bit of a sore thumb.

868
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

869
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.039
<v Speaker 2>And I think the thing is he's playing himself. He's

870
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.480
<v Speaker 2>playing the same role he always plays, and I've seen

871
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:12.719
<v Speaker 2>that a million times. What I haven't seen is a

872
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:16.760
<v Speaker 2>grown up Sally Draper. Yeah, and we we learned very

873
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:19.119
<v Speaker 2>quickly that it is Sally drape Tell.

874
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:20.039
<v Speaker 3>Me the actress's name again.

875
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Bonnie Hunt, Bonnie Hunt, thank you, that it is Bonnie

876
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Hunt speaking through him, and we get every now and

877
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:28.760
<v Speaker 2>then we get Bonnie Hunt speaking through him.

878
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:32.760
<v Speaker 1>No, that was the I'm sorry, we're crossing names. Bonnie

879
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Hunt was missus Claws. Okay, it was Kiernan shipka.

880
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 3>La okay, thank you.

881
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 2>So I may have confused things before earlier when I

882
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:48.239
<v Speaker 2>was talking about that, but like, yeah, to me, knowing

883
00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:50.920
<v Speaker 2>that it could be her saying all these lines and

884
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>instead it's coming through his mouth, I was just annoyed.

885
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I was just like, you've got a much better choice there.

886
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Why not just it could be his face and he

887
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:00.320
<v Speaker 2>makes very humorous faces, but why not make it her voice?

888
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:01.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

889
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:03.360
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was interesting because he's such I think

890
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.199
<v Speaker 1>your point is well taken that this was a Nick

891
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Kroll performance, and it was very much about like, hey,

892
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, we know Nick Kroll. He's a friend of ours.

893
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Let's we're shooting for a day, come on in right right, Well,

894
00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:14.480
<v Speaker 1>and I think.

895
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.719
<v Speaker 2>That it very much fits the the the audience to

896
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:18.800
<v Speaker 2>go because if what's going for as teenage boys, yeah,

897
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:19.559
<v Speaker 2>which it seems.

898
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 3>A lot of the way they are, that's that's who

899
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:23.039
<v Speaker 3>he very much is an audience for. Yeah.

900
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think as again, if you if I separate

901
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:31.599
<v Speaker 1>myself from the from the undercurrent of ideological consternation that

902
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:35.519
<v Speaker 1>I bring to it. I was smiling during more of

903
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:39.639
<v Speaker 1>this movie than I was not, mostly because, as I

904
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:43.519
<v Speaker 1>call it, the pixel parade I thought was fun. I

905
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:49.159
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed the the uh just the visual depiction of the

906
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:54.119
<v Speaker 1>North Pole. I enjoy the slides. I enjoy the the

907
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:58.360
<v Speaker 1>in particular, I always enjoy I think this is a

908
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:06.360
<v Speaker 1>the The depiction of Santa delivering presence is a fascinating

909
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:11.159
<v Speaker 1>thing in film and television, and I liked the choices

910
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:14.039
<v Speaker 1>they made in that montage. In the end, it just

911
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:19.199
<v Speaker 1>was fun. It was fun going through the cooking events

912
00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:23.039
<v Speaker 1>and like answering questions that everybody says, how does Santa

913
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.880
<v Speaker 1>do all this? And they tried to include some new swings.

914
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Here's how Santa does these things in you know, condos

915
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:33.440
<v Speaker 1>and buildings and things that don't have chimneys, and so

916
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:35.559
<v Speaker 1>there were things in this movie that they tried that

917
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.199
<v Speaker 1>I do think works. So it's like you said, it's

918
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:41.119
<v Speaker 1>not the worst movie I've ever seen. It's absolutely not.

919
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.800
<v Speaker 1>It is a middling to fair popcorn movie that requires,

920
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.599
<v Speaker 1>I think, especially for younger people, a little bit of discussion.

921
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:53.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I would say for me, I think it's

922
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.360
<v Speaker 2>probably in my worst five movies of all time, like

923
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.480
<v Speaker 2>I did the time. And part of that's because I

924
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.159
<v Speaker 2>think I just find joy in those things that you did.

925
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:04.880
<v Speaker 2>And it may be because I do have very strong

926
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:07.519
<v Speaker 2>feelings about Christmas, and I think part of that's religious

927
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:09.639
<v Speaker 2>important that it has nothing to do with religion. It's

928
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.679
<v Speaker 2>just about the like my mother loving it so much,

929
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.880
<v Speaker 2>and my loving the family aspect and all that. But

930
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:18.199
<v Speaker 2>also I just I don't find the rock enjoyable. I

931
00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:23.360
<v Speaker 2>don't find that I've seen the CGI Snowman stuff, not

932
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:26.239
<v Speaker 2>actual Snowman, but i've seen CGI monsters so much, like

933
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't really like Marvel stuff anymore. I started a

934
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 2>podcast called Superherotics because I love the MCU and I've

935
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:35.199
<v Speaker 2>not liking it beating so CGI's so, Yeah, I think

936
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.039
<v Speaker 2>it's great. Like I wanted to know more about why

937
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:38.920
<v Speaker 2>someone would enjoy this movie, and so that's awesome. And

938
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's good or bad, it's just you know,

939
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:41.719
<v Speaker 2>different tastes.

940
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no for sure. And you know, here's the

941
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:47.800
<v Speaker 1>biggest question of these movies that get released at this

942
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:51.039
<v Speaker 1>time of year is does it become an annual staple?

943
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 1>And I can say with out qualification, this is not

944
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.199
<v Speaker 1>an annual staple at all. It's a one and done

945
00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:03.559
<v Speaker 1>and it's fine because I gotta go watch Spirited.

946
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

947
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, so if you want to know what are our

948
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.239
<v Speaker 2>annual staples, you should become a member because we're going

949
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:10.599
<v Speaker 2>to talk about that for just a few minutes in

950
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:13.079
<v Speaker 2>our bonus member content. You become a member for only

951
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.039
<v Speaker 2>five dollars a month or fifty five dollars a year,

952
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.840
<v Speaker 2>all the informations on our show notes, You get bonus episodes,

953
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:20.960
<v Speaker 2>bonus content, add free content. If you want to listen

954
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:23.639
<v Speaker 2>to a highly commercialized movie without commercials, that's the way

955
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:25.920
<v Speaker 2>to do it. And of course this being the holidays,

956
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:28.199
<v Speaker 2>you can even give someone a gift of a membership.

957
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.000
<v Speaker 2>And not only can you give someone a gift of

958
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:33.239
<v Speaker 2>a membership by and also help out this podcast, you

959
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:35.480
<v Speaker 2>could give them a gift of an audible subscription.

960
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:36.719
<v Speaker 3>Do you listen to books on.

961
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.599
<v Speaker 1>Tape, Pete, Yes, exhaustively.

962
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like it's just you're doing the dishes. You're on

963
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.599
<v Speaker 3>a drive. I've had so much easier to consume media.

964
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:46.840
<v Speaker 2>That way, you can give a gift of an audible

965
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:48.400
<v Speaker 2>subscription through our podcast.

966
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Again, the link is in the show notes.

967
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:53.119
<v Speaker 2>And like, okay, for every if you have a kid

968
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.000
<v Speaker 2>in your life, have you watched that kid pick up

969
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:58.159
<v Speaker 2>a roll of unwrapped wrapping paper or even wrapped wrapping

970
00:49:58.159 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 2>paper and hit people with it and go.

971
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.239
<v Speaker 3>They're not pretending it's a sword. They're pretending it's a lightsaber.

972
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 2>What if you could get them an actual lightsaber that

973
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:09.199
<v Speaker 2>lights up and makes noises and it's good in a

974
00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:10.840
<v Speaker 2>fight if you want to use it for like martial

975
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 2>lights fighting, you can do all that at level up lightsabers.

976
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:16.679
<v Speaker 2>Link is in our show notes. I'm trying to demonstrate

977
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>to Pete that I'm doing a good job of inserting

978
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.119
<v Speaker 2>these ads all through the episode, and so I did

979
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 2>a terrible job of leaving them all to the end

980
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:24.719
<v Speaker 2>of the episode. But please help me look good in

981
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:27.119
<v Speaker 2>the eyes of Pete by bigging up those numbers. Become

982
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:29.760
<v Speaker 2>a member, by an audible subscription, by a lightsaber.

983
00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.239
<v Speaker 3>But whatever you do, remember we have spoken.