Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in to another show in the next
Speaker 1: real family of film podcasts, I want to skip those
Speaker 1: ads and get early access, become a member at true
Speaker 1: story dot fm, slash Joint, and discover all the other
Speaker 1: great perks that come with it. Chest Nuts roasting on
Speaker 1: an open fire, Jack Cross nipping at your nose, and
Speaker 1: Dwayne the Rock Johnson battling oh or not entirely sure
Speaker 1: what he's battling. And Amazon's Red One. Let's just say
Speaker 1: it involves Christmas and leave it at that. Look, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. This isn't exactly Miracle on thirty four Street.
Speaker 1: It's not even jingle all the way. But in the
Speaker 1: spirit of the holidays, we're embracing the weird, the wild,
Speaker 1: and the wonderfully bizarre. Because Red One, despite its interesting choices,
Speaker 1: does raise some interesting questions, questions like what exactly is
Speaker 1: the plot again? And perhaps most importantly, what is Chris
Speaker 1: Evans doing here? So grab your hot coco, settle in
Speaker 1: by the fire, and prepare to have your holidays here
Speaker 1: mildly disrupted. Join us for a special bonus episode of
Speaker 1: the Film Board Crossover with our very good friend Matthew
Speaker 1: Fox from Superhero ethics. Matthew's expertise in well superhero ethics
Speaker 1: might actually be the key to unlocking the secrets of
Speaker 1: the marvelification of Christmas in this movie. Or maybe we'll
Speaker 1: just end up more confused than when we started. Either way,
Speaker 1: it's bound to be a holly, jolly and slightly baffling ride.
Speaker 1: So buckle up, filmboard fans, superhero ethics, fans, fans of
Speaker 1: you know, Christmas and snow and stuff, because we're going
Speaker 1: on a sleigh ride straight to the heart of Red One.
Speaker 2: I said, Hey, can anybody talk to me about Red One?
Speaker 2: Pete went Red One? Is that really worth watching? Okay?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 2: And I draggooned him into being on this podcast with me.
Speaker 2: So Pete's goon to party. How do you feel?
Speaker 1: Let's just say your invitation was essentially, Hey, this movie's terrible,
Speaker 1: Come talk about it with me on a podcast. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I said yes, but I did, and
Speaker 1: I am here, and I am thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I described my feeling about this movie as the cinematic
Speaker 2: equivalent of, oh my god, this smells so bad.
Speaker 3: Here smell this, and.
Speaker 2: I think you're on Because over the many generations, many
Speaker 2: millions of people have said, Okay, I will smell this,
Speaker 2: I will have this highly unpleasant experience, except you decided,
Speaker 2: except for two seconds of olfactory torture, you would engage
Speaker 2: in ninety five minutes of cinematic torture.
Speaker 1: Yes, And here's the thing. This is what may come
Speaker 1: as a surprise. I watched this with my wife and
Speaker 1: daughter and they both were all smiles throughout this movie.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, like the surprise was when
Speaker 1: they would look over at me and say, why am
Speaker 1: I having fun at this movie? This movie has no
Speaker 1: right to make me smile like this? Why am I
Speaker 1: smiling like this? And that I think is the is
Speaker 1: the the the illusion of red one that actually makes
Speaker 1: it play? And so I know we have several different
Speaker 1: sort of angles we want to approach this movie. And
Speaker 1: so I'll see my points until later. But I'm well,
Speaker 1: get interesting.
Speaker 2: But I do you want to say you've presented a
Speaker 2: very intry experience where you, the great cinophile have said
Speaker 2: that they.
Speaker 3: Were all smiles.
Speaker 1: How you caught that right?
Speaker 2: How do you, mister Pete Wright? Are you going to admit?
Speaker 2: On national podcast, international podcast heard all around the world
Speaker 2: by at least five hundred people. What did you think
Speaker 2: of the movie?
Speaker 1: I liked it more than you did.
Speaker 3: How about that?
Speaker 1: That's if you are the bar. I crested it a bit.
Speaker 3: That's fair. That's fair.
Speaker 2: So for those who've been living on a rock, this
Speaker 2: is the movie that stars the Rock, and Chris Evans
Speaker 2: didn't even mean to do that.
Speaker 3: The Rock is just ubiquitous, like rock.
Speaker 1: This is fascinatingly that they make Chris Evans look small.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the premise of the movie is that, in
Speaker 2: what I think is actually a really interesting bit of
Speaker 2: folklore and world building that I would be behind if
Speaker 2: it got its own show without the Rock in it.
Speaker 2: That there's kind of a torch Wood like organization, a
Speaker 2: secret organization that is tasked with the protection of mythological beings,
Speaker 2: and that one of those mythological beings that's tasked with
Speaker 2: protecting is Saint Nicholas Santa Claus as he is known
Speaker 2: to the rest of us or just read one as
Speaker 2: this is code name, and the Rock is an entity.
Speaker 3: His name is cam I think Cameron Canyon something like that.
Speaker 4: Oh, he's Callum cal Callum Rift Drift, which sounds like
Speaker 4: a name that would only be found in a nineteen
Speaker 4: nineties video game or being played by.
Speaker 3: The rock yep and he is preter naturally old.
Speaker 2: We're never actually told why, whether that's because he lives
Speaker 2: at the North Pole where people age differently, or.
Speaker 1: What they to imply he's not human.
Speaker 3: They imply he's not human.
Speaker 2: He's clearly not the size of an elf, and we
Speaker 2: do see elves the size of Christmas elves that they're
Speaker 2: often portrayed, so who knows what he is? But he
Speaker 2: wants to retire, He wants to return to a normal life.
Speaker 2: And why is that? Because there's just too many people
Speaker 2: on the naughty List these days and he just he's
Speaker 2: not seeing things in humanity that make him want to.
Speaker 3: Do his job right.
Speaker 2: And Santa Claus, in a horrifically anti labor message, spends
Speaker 2: most of the movie trying to convince him that he
Speaker 2: doesn't get to go have his own life, but that
Speaker 2: he should spend his life working for the capital establishment
Speaker 2: that is Santa So first problem there, but he also
Speaker 2: reminds him that, of course it is their job to
Speaker 2: visit every boy and girl on Christmas Eve around the world.
Speaker 2: Second problem, which we'll discuss in a moment, because news flash,
Speaker 2: there are non Christian boys and girls somewhere.
Speaker 3: In the world.
Speaker 1: Nobody told the movie matter who don't.
Speaker 2: Celebrate Christmas, Atheist whatever it is anyway, plot unbiased plot
Speaker 2: summary that someone else would give but I wouldn't give.
Speaker 3: So we then find out that Chris Evans.
Speaker 2: Who is both the very best at his job but
Speaker 2: also a down on his luck ne'er do well have
Speaker 2: fun squaring that circle, is very very good at finding people,
Speaker 2: and he's able to pierce the protections of the dome
Speaker 2: of secrecy that they have around Red One in the
Speaker 2: North Pole. But of course he doesn't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: He doesn't believe in the North Pole or anything like that.
Speaker 2: He only just knows that he's had a kid for
Speaker 2: a number of years, which I'm not even again into
Speaker 2: my problems with that. I'll get to that later. So
Speaker 2: the point of all this being that he has he's
Speaker 2: not really a good guy. He's he's a Level four
Speaker 2: naughty lister, but when Santa Claus is kidnapped, he's the
Speaker 2: only one they can bring in, and so him and
Speaker 2: the Rock go on adventures where they fight lots of
Speaker 2: CGI nonsense and they encounter Crampis and actually Crampus is
Speaker 2: portrayed kind of awesomely in a way that I really like.
Speaker 2: And it turns out the villain behind this is someone
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have thought was the villain. And it's all
Speaker 2: about a plot to stop having Santa because Santa is
Speaker 2: too nice and rewards too many people for being nice
Speaker 2: and that's not okay, and the bad people should be punished.
Speaker 2: So this is sort of like if Batman took over
Speaker 2: Santa Claus, except you know, a very bad version of it, right,
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Don't even think the movie's ideology is that the Santa
Speaker 1: shouldn't exist. It's just that Santa doesn't punish the naughty listers.
Speaker 1: We need to have balance between We're gonna punish the
Speaker 1: bad people forever at the hands of the Christmas Witch,
Speaker 1: and you know we're we need Santa's juju to do
Speaker 1: it now.
Speaker 2: Of course, part of the whole point of this is
Speaker 2: that Santa is a mythological being, and thus most people
Speaker 2: don't believe in Santa. Pete, you have children, I believe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you also don't seem like a grinch, so I have
Speaker 2: to imagine that your children. I think you've said you're
Speaker 2: the Christians some form or another that your your children
Speaker 2: got gifts under a Christmas tree at some point in time.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and I'm guessing that you and your
Speaker 2: spouse or whoever it was provided that you put those
Speaker 2: gifts under the tree, and then other people help put
Speaker 2: them there under.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, So all of that is this is a grueling
Speaker 1: line of interrogation.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, well we're geting. I'm sorry. It's personal, but
Speaker 3: I had to make sure to establish it. Don't make
Speaker 3: you the every man on the street. I am question.
Speaker 2: I am that if presence had magically appeared after you
Speaker 2: had gone to sleep while visions of sugar plums danced
Speaker 2: in your heads, and you'd woken up and there were
Speaker 2: more presents out there, would you believe in Santa Claus?
Speaker 1: I would check the locks on my doors.
Speaker 3: But if everyone at the PDA said, oh, yeah, we
Speaker 3: had the.
Speaker 1: Same thing that you get your delivery, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a certain uh, there's a certain degree of uh
Speaker 1: of just sort of separating my personal experience from the
Speaker 1: microculture that we've created in our home and with our
Speaker 1: family around how we handle, you know, the spirit of
Speaker 1: generosity at Christmas time that I have to separate because
Speaker 1: this movie would be an antagonist to that microculture. And
Speaker 1: uh and so you know, I try to look at
Speaker 1: these Chris, all of the Christmas movies really that have
Speaker 1: this sort of vibe where a red suited man breaks
Speaker 1: into your home and leaves stuff. It's just part of
Speaker 1: the you know, I say, Heavy Air quotes ancient tradition
Speaker 1: and mysticism that is the commercial Christmas industry. And as
Speaker 1: many problems as I have with that, how well does
Speaker 1: the movie execute on that mysticism in like playing the
Speaker 1: hits in kind of a new way. Is this is
Speaker 1: the question for this movie.
Speaker 2: I guess that's part of why I asked it, because
Speaker 2: I thought I thought it did that spectacularly badly. That's
Speaker 2: honestly one of my biggest problems in the movie, in
Speaker 2: part because excuse mean the circle of people who don't
Speaker 2: live at the North Pole but who are aware of
Speaker 2: the existence of Santa Claus is expanded dramatically in this movie.
Speaker 2: Among other things, one of the first things we see
Speaker 2: is that it's the real Santa Claus at a mall.
Speaker 2: And yeah, sure, he's pretending to be the fake Santa.
Speaker 2: Who's the real Santa it's very miracle on thirty fourth Street.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with that, But.
Speaker 1: I actually thought that was clever.
Speaker 2: I thought that was it was a nice way of
Speaker 2: tying it into a long tradition of Christmas movies. But
Speaker 2: then as he's leaving this entity that, I think we
Speaker 2: can agree that there's now a secular American holiday called Christmas.
Speaker 3: And for sure, it is for the most part.
Speaker 2: Divorced Trump the relition, just holiday that many Christians, such
Speaker 2: as myself celebrate. And there's a lot of people who
Speaker 2: are non Christian, I think, who don't like the fact
Speaker 2: that there's a secular American holiday that is directly derived
Speaker 2: and uses the iconography of a Christian holiday.
Speaker 3: And that's part we'll discuss in a moment.
Speaker 2: But even as fairly secularized, the fact that it is
Speaker 2: still the origin of it is the birth of a
Speaker 2: Prince of peace, I feel like should in some way
Speaker 2: be a little bit of discussion. When Santa Claus is
Speaker 2: escorted by two fighter jets armed with missiles of the
Speaker 2: United States Air Force, Yes, because allelujah, Amen, the pilots
Speaker 2: know that Santa exists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the flight controllers know that Santa exists.
Speaker 1: Oh, the circle of awareness is broad with this movie.
Speaker 1: Many the international leader, world leaders know that Santa exists.
Speaker 1: There is no question that Santa exists. That's the sort
Speaker 1: of table stakes of the film.
Speaker 2: I guess that's on of my point, because I think
Speaker 2: you're right, most Santa films have that agreed degree of disbelief,
Speaker 2: of suspension of belief that you're willing to say, actually,
Speaker 2: if Santa was real, that would mean every parent of
Speaker 2: a child who celebrates Christmas in the world would know
Speaker 2: that Santa was real, and the world will be a
Speaker 2: very different place because of it, and probably would not
Speaker 2: be a mythological being.
Speaker 3: It would be like, you know, the Super post Office
Speaker 3: once a year.
Speaker 1: The Super post Office.
Speaker 2: Yes, And most movies are allowed me to suspend that disbelief.
Speaker 2: But I feel like this movie, by by trying to
Speaker 2: make it more realistic, by trying to say like, here's
Speaker 2: the mythologic, here's the group of humans that work for this,
Speaker 2: here's the politics around it, just shattered the disbelief for me.
Speaker 1: I think that I get where you're going, and I
Speaker 1: think the thing that I struggle with is that in
Speaker 1: order to make it more realistic, they have to introduce
Speaker 1: bureaucracy to the Christmas industrial complex. Yes, right, yes, And
Speaker 1: that becomes a challenge because that runs headlong into personal
Speaker 1: and cultural belief systems around as you say, the Birth
Speaker 1: of the Prince of Peace. So this movie presumes that
Speaker 1: the only people who don't understand Santa are the people
Speaker 1: who once believed and then lost that belief somehow, and
Speaker 1: Jack in Chris Evans is the character that is sort
Speaker 1: of our avatar for that that the in between, like
Speaker 1: the people who ideologically don't even have a Santa in
Speaker 1: their belief system, are completely ignored. That's a thing that
Speaker 1: the movie decided we're not even going to pay any
Speaker 1: attention to that. This movie is for the believers and
Speaker 1: the people who don't believe anymore that we're trying to
Speaker 1: bring back, and they talk about our numbers are down
Speaker 1: year over year. Like that level of bureaucracy I think
Speaker 1: just runs headlong into the peace and generosity thing.
Speaker 2: And I would say that leads to perhaps my second
Speaker 2: biggest problem with this movie, which is how aggressively it
Speaker 2: universalizes the idea of Santa. Because I would say, actually,
Speaker 2: what you said of it to ignorees, I don't think
Speaker 2: it ignores. There are a couple of times where like
Speaker 2: one direct statement is that Santa is able to visit
Speaker 2: every child on Earth, which I think is probably a
Speaker 2: great surprise to a lot of Hindu children and Buddhist
Speaker 2: children and the children celebrate Christmas.
Speaker 1: Well, I will say, I'll correct that statement. It presumes
Speaker 1: all children of all nationalities are of the same ideology,
Speaker 1: right right, Wait, that's the false presumption.
Speaker 2: And even when it gets to like all these world
Speaker 2: leaders who are like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to guess that the president of India and
Speaker 2: the president of China and other places where Christianity is
Speaker 2: a small minority are not terribly troubled by the idea.
Speaker 3: Of that Santa Claus is not going to exist.
Speaker 1: Right, right, And so to have this secret sort of
Speaker 1: underground teleportation system that brings you from from a toy
Speaker 1: store in New York to a toy store in Bangalore
Speaker 1: is maybe not a thing that would be welcome by
Speaker 1: the industrial state.
Speaker 2: I would also say that as someone who has been
Speaker 2: a part of you know, working in game stores for
Speaker 2: a while and been in there for an email contact
Speaker 2: with a lot of very remote game store owners who
Speaker 2: have great problems getting packed getting product to their store. Yes,
Speaker 2: the store in New York could simply shove a box
Speaker 2: through the closet, you know, and let it up here
Speaker 2: in Bangalore.
Speaker 3: I think that would save a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: That would save a lot of problems. So, you know,
Speaker 1: all of those things are are a bit troublesome when
Speaker 1: you stop and like really interrogate the movie and the movies,
Speaker 1: you know, report a belief system, and then we get
Speaker 1: to the sort of retribution for past sins. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: imagined as I was watching it that that's a part
Speaker 1: you would have a significant challenge with.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm still on the universalizing of Christmas.
Speaker 2: I just one or two other things on that, and
Speaker 2: then we will get to that, a promise, I think.
Speaker 3: For me.
Speaker 2: The other reason why I find it so problematic is
Speaker 2: if this was about a Chinese holiday, a Chinese New
Speaker 2: Year or something like that, I would feel very simp
Speaker 2: because the thing is, this movie doesn't exist in a
Speaker 2: cultural context where the idea of pushing Christmas onto people
Speaker 2: who don't want to celebrate Christmas is just fine and dandy.
Speaker 2: We live in a world in which people on social
Speaker 2: media believe there is quite literally a war on Christmas
Speaker 2: and are therefore fighting a war against non Christmas, and
Speaker 2: so all of that I think just added to why
Speaker 2: I was like, this is just not a fun movie
Speaker 2: or a good movie. As well as all it's breaking
Speaker 2: the suspended to disbelief, and I just wanted to add
Speaker 2: one more thing, and I promise we get off the
Speaker 2: soapbox and go another Did you see the movie Noel
Speaker 2: Spelled n Oe l e.
Speaker 1: Yes with Bill Hayter and Anna Kendrick.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's one of many many Santa movies that you've
Speaker 2: made that you that you've seen.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many you've made, but you reference
Speaker 2: the fact. There's many many, and it's not the best
Speaker 2: by any means, but it's cute and has some nice points, sure,
Speaker 2: but it deals with this issue so much better in
Speaker 2: a three second scene that just I want to remember
Speaker 2: because it shows why it can be so different. Because
Speaker 2: in the movie, the idea is that there's sort of
Speaker 2: a new Santa of every generation and this time, why
Speaker 2: can't it be a girl?
Speaker 3: I think I think it's somewhat.
Speaker 2: Heredity or heredity hereditary and like the Daughter of Santa
Speaker 2: or something like that. I don't remember, but this woman
Speaker 2: Noel becomes Santa Claus Anna Kendrick, and it's great, and
Speaker 2: she has some problems and foibles, like your classic first
Speaker 2: day on the job, no one believes in me kind
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 3: Fun movie.
Speaker 2: And there's one scene where she's still figuring out exactly
Speaker 2: what homes to go to. She goes down a chimney
Speaker 2: and finds a family that is playing Dradel and is
Speaker 2: very clearly very Jewish, right, and she just says to them, oh, sorry,
Speaker 2: wrong house, and they all kind of smile and nod
Speaker 2: and maybe offer her some socks or something, and she
Speaker 2: goes about a way. Yes to me, that is now
Speaker 2: kind of to me the bar of just what I
Speaker 2: want a Santa Claus movie to meet is just like,
Speaker 2: because I guess that showed that you can have a
Speaker 2: very fun Santa Claus movie without having to say.
Speaker 3: That every single child in the world celebrates.
Speaker 1: Christmas, yes, right, And I think I think this movie,
Speaker 1: any of that nuanced sort of even three second sequences,
Speaker 1: would have gotten so in the way of the marvelization
Speaker 1: of Christmas that is this movie that I don't think
Speaker 1: they could have made time for it. I just don't
Speaker 1: even think it crossed the minds of the filmmakers to
Speaker 1: approach with that sensibility. I mean, at no point did
Speaker 1: I feel like there was any generosity of spirit to
Speaker 1: these other, you know, holiday worldviews.
Speaker 3: I think it's where it was tall.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say, for all those who are conspiracy
Speaker 2: nuts who say Jews control Hollywood, watch this movie because
Speaker 2: at the real they don't. Right.
Speaker 3: So tell me what.
Speaker 2: I love that phrase, though, What do you mean by
Speaker 2: the marvelization? Because I know you don't mean making marvelous,
Speaker 2: you mean making like Marvel the MC.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, Marvel is a well. I mean, look at
Speaker 1: who you have. You have Captain America, you have saz
Speaker 1: Or what's his name, Black Adam, SHA's zame Black Adam.
Speaker 1: You have these these heroes of of like hero screen
Speaker 1: and what else are you going to do with them
Speaker 1: in this kind of movie? This is I think the
Speaker 1: the we have these characters and we have a holiday,
Speaker 1: what can we do with them? What if Captain America
Speaker 1: and Black Adam were in a movie together and we
Speaker 1: were and we just wanted to throw a parade of
Speaker 1: pixels at the audience, this is what you would get.
Speaker 1: And it is it is. It is a two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollar Christmas movie. That is the most
Speaker 1: absurd statement we can make about this movie. It's absurd
Speaker 1: born in a manger because they were so poor. You
Speaker 1: goes on too, right, right, Like, this is not a
Speaker 1: story that needed to be told. If I never see
Speaker 1: massive alpha snowmen on a beach again, I'll be okay.
Speaker 2: Because it was Also it was a movie that was
Speaker 2: very much about saving Christmas, to save the kids, and
Speaker 2: that kids have the innocence that they're still on the
Speaker 2: nice list, and that that's why Callum should continue to
Speaker 2: be a wage slave in the industrial capitalism that is
Speaker 2: known as the North Pole.
Speaker 3: But it's also that aggressively not a kid's movie.
Speaker 2: Yes, like there's cursing, which is fine, but like there's
Speaker 2: a moment where they're on the beach in Antigua, as
Speaker 2: you said, because that's where they go to fight the snowmen,
Speaker 2: and we get a couple scenes of women walking by
Speaker 2: in the kind of bikinis that people often wear in
Speaker 2: which a lot of butt cheek is exposed. Sure, and
Speaker 2: I just felt like, yeah, it's a marvelization because it's
Speaker 2: a way of being like, no, we don't want parents
Speaker 2: to bring their eight year olds.
Speaker 3: We want fourteen year olds to come to this movie
Speaker 3: on their own.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and tell mom, oh, mom, I'm going to a
Speaker 2: Santa Claus movie.
Speaker 3: It's fine. Oh look at the butt cheeks on that one.
Speaker 1: Well, and the fact that this movie, I mean it
Speaker 1: even in theatrically, I think it's just about, you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy five million dollar box office on
Speaker 1: a two hundred and fifty million dollar budget. But now
Speaker 1: it's on Amazon right now, it's it's it's a draw
Speaker 1: for subscriptions and it's a parade of shopping and products,
Speaker 1: and so we'll never know how it truly fares. But
Speaker 1: now it's available for everyone. Now it's available for other
Speaker 1: kids who just want to see the rock and you
Speaker 1: know in the movie. So you know, is that is
Speaker 1: that a neutral good in the world.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's hard to say. It's hard.
Speaker 2: I'm the only one who's like, you know, back off
Speaker 2: with those sexist ideas of what kind of bikinies people
Speaker 2: should wear and stuff like that. I'm just saying, it
Speaker 2: just seems so it's not even that, as you said,
Speaker 2: this movie lacks of generosity of spirit is it just
Speaker 2: feels like such a cynical cash grab, you know, the
Speaker 2: inclusion of stuff like that, or like having curse words
Speaker 2: very specifically and like, look, we're an adult movie, we
Speaker 2: can have curse words.
Speaker 3: It just felt like, I don't know, it just it
Speaker 3: was all the reasons.
Speaker 2: I was like, there's nothing about the spirit of anything
Speaker 2: in this movie except capitalism and commercialism, which I guess
Speaker 2: is what Christmas is today.
Speaker 3: So that's probably that's.
Speaker 1: Your secular holiday, right, that's the secular holiday of Christmas.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right, which is not quite the holiday of
Speaker 2: the generosity that you were talking about.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, so.
Speaker 2: Let's yeah, let's get into the uh retribution and punishment
Speaker 2: of it all. First of all, ask have you seen
Speaker 2: the movie Crampus or have you seen other things about
Speaker 2: the story of Crampus?
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yes, Say a little bit more.
Speaker 2: About that, because this was the first time I was
Speaker 2: seeing a Crampus on screen.
Speaker 1: The Crampis movie is, So you haven't seen the movie
Speaker 1: cramps I have not. Okay, the Crampis movie. It was
Speaker 1: fascinating because it portrays the relationship with Crampis as a
Speaker 1: generational horror as a thing that haunts families for their
Speaker 1: past ills, and it is a it's a horrifying creature.
Speaker 1: It was a horror movie and it comes with minions
Speaker 1: in the forest, and it is it was a deeply
Speaker 1: scary generational trauma processing experience. And so I don't have
Speaker 1: a like, I haven't done any sort of scholarship on
Speaker 1: Crampus as a as a historical, you know, creature, but
Speaker 1: I do I do have a sense of what they
Speaker 1: were trying to go for here, and the fact that
Speaker 1: it ends up being a parade of essentially like Clyde
Speaker 1: Barker's Night Breed characters, I thought was low key fantastic.
Speaker 1: Like that part of the movie I thought was was
Speaker 1: pretty fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in the movie, we learned that Crampis is Santa's brother.
Speaker 2: They were adopted, but they're no longer speaking with each other,
Speaker 2: and it used to be that the two of them
Speaker 2: were partners on Christmas and that Crampis was the one
Speaker 2: who came up with the whole idea of the Naughty List.
Speaker 2: Casanta just wanted to bring gifts and presents to everybody.
Speaker 2: There's a whole Christian debate over universalism in two different
Speaker 2: schools of that, which I won't even get into, but
Speaker 2: that like you can kind of do an interesting.
Speaker 3: Thing on the theology of those two.
Speaker 2: Yes, but that somewhere along the line they had a
Speaker 2: falling out, and that Santa still keeps the naughty list
Speaker 2: to some extent, but that for the most part, Crampis
Speaker 2: now has his own area that is just him and
Speaker 2: him alone and hits his people, and honestly, it looks
Speaker 2: kind of fun like they just party all the time.
Speaker 2: They're basically like scary looking vikings, Like they party and
Speaker 2: they drink and they play games where people get hurt
Speaker 2: and maybe occasionally die, but everyone's kind of in on
Speaker 2: the joke and enjoying it. And the fear is that
Speaker 2: when Santa is kidnapped, that it must be them, and
Speaker 2: so our heroes go and invade this world in breaking
Speaker 2: the treaty that was made between Crampus and Santa that
Speaker 2: neither one would ever enter the land of the other again,
Speaker 2: making me like, give me a Torchwood style show about
Speaker 2: this mythological organization. I'm here for it, especially if you
Speaker 2: don't just do Western mythology. I'm so all over it.
Speaker 3: Give me an Easter, buddy, who's not Hugh Jackman please.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they even tease it with the headless horseman,
Speaker 1: Like I thought that was a really nice little nod.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that scene felt straight out an
Speaker 2: episode of Torchwood, you know, for any of the other
Speaker 2: Minutehouse thirteen. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and with me. Now when
Speaker 2: as as the person who's the head of it, you know,
Speaker 2: of course she's in the natural, you know, sure, But
Speaker 2: but it winds up that like, yes, they seem to
Speaker 2: believe in more retribution, and I have definitely some thoughts
Speaker 2: of that, but I appreciate that he's not presented as
Speaker 2: evil and that forgives spoilers.
Speaker 3: We eventually learned that he is not the reason.
Speaker 2: Why this all happened, and that he helps Santa fight the
Speaker 2: actual villain, who does seem to have much more of
Speaker 2: a like everyone is naughty, We're just going to assume that,
Speaker 2: and we're going to like, it's not that naughty means
Speaker 2: you're not going to get gifts, which I think is
Speaker 2: all Crampus ever wanted, but that naughty means you're actually
Speaker 2: going you're going to get full on retribution and punishment,
Speaker 2: and we're going to punish everyone with the same hammer.
Speaker 1: So a form of isolation for the rest of eternity, right,
Speaker 1: a slob.
Speaker 2: You know, if you told a little fib about your sister,
Speaker 2: or if you murder ten people, same thing, you're isolated
Speaker 2: for all of eternity.
Speaker 1: Well, and what they're robbing there is not just like,
Speaker 1: it's not just individual punishment. It's the theft of community,
Speaker 1: which is the soul of this sort of holiday experience, right,
Speaker 1: that we come together, and this presumes to take away
Speaker 1: togetherness from so many, so it becomes a punishment not
Speaker 1: just for the people who are put into snow globes,
Speaker 1: but a punishment for the world. She goes around saying
Speaker 1: we're going to make the world a nicer place, but
Speaker 1: everybody's being taken from someone, and that is a setup
Speaker 1: for massive, unsettling grief.
Speaker 2: And I think that was part of why, Like, I
Speaker 2: think it was hard for me to get that because
Speaker 2: I'm so angry about all the other from right, But
Speaker 2: as you talk about it, you remind me, Yeah, that
Speaker 2: makes sense, because that actually is you know. I think
Speaker 2: I once heard someone say, like everything about Christmas comes
Speaker 2: down to do you see it as a holiday of
Speaker 2: giving or a holiday of getting? Yeah, and I really
Speaker 2: love that that idea because you know, yeah, it's about like,
Speaker 2: is the joy in finding gifts and giving gifts to others?
Speaker 3: Or is the joy and the kind of like I
Speaker 3: want to get all the gifts.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to blame an eight year old
Speaker 2: for being materialistic, but I think that, like, whether secular
Speaker 2: or not, gift giving holidays of all sorts can be
Speaker 2: a way of helping kids through that, you know, And
Speaker 2: like my mom would always tell me before my birthday,
Speaker 2: she'd be like, yes, you're going to get a lot
Speaker 2: of gifts today, but remember today, you know the happiness
Speaker 2: that you feel from the gifts you're giving. Keep that
Speaker 2: mind every time we're going to go shopping because you're
Speaker 2: going to Little Johnny's birthday party, because that's the joy
Speaker 2: you're giving them. And Christmas is my mother's favorite holiday,
Speaker 2: and I cannot help but associate with her.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's it's so funny.
Speaker 2: That so much of the other parts of the movie
Speaker 2: don't get this, because I do think you're right. The
Speaker 2: meaning of that, the theology of it, the philosophy of
Speaker 2: it is very much what Christmas should be about. It's
Speaker 2: the coming together of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, And I think the movie spends so
Speaker 1: much time on the pixel parade that it is easy,
Speaker 1: to your point to get lost in the multiple messages
Speaker 1: that feel like are sort of shoehorned in when you're
Speaker 1: standing in a forest of ideological sort of fortitude, So.
Speaker 2: Where where what do you think of cramp As as
Speaker 2: sort of the one kind of standing in the middle
Speaker 2: of these two.
Speaker 1: Well, as always with these characters, I like the I
Speaker 1: like the presentation of him that he's he's less of
Speaker 1: a of a a horrific monster in present he is
Speaker 1: a monster in presentation right, the many horned Crampus, he's giant.
Speaker 1: He is presented as he's almost a low key character, right,
Speaker 1: He's he's playful. They're playing a game called Crampis Slap,
Speaker 1: which I found low key delightful, Like that just seems
Speaker 1: like a thing that would be fun. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm one of the people that absolutely loved like Mary
Speaker 1: Slapsmith's on How I Met You Mother, that was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I have such an affinity for
Speaker 1: slapping games, but I saw this and I thought this
Speaker 1: is really fun. And then he is presented as the
Speaker 1: savior at the end but also the ex of the
Speaker 1: Christmas Witch right that they had a deeper relationship. And
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, now this is Santa Barbara. Now this
Speaker 1: has gone upbridge too far, right, like.
Speaker 3: This is CW doing this ant mythology world.
Speaker 1: What are we doing here? This was an example of
Speaker 1: people writing themselves into a corner as a game to
Speaker 1: see if they could write their way out and not
Speaker 1: really being able to do it. And so we have
Speaker 1: to do a lot of hand waving to get to
Speaker 1: the end.
Speaker 2: Which I will say is one of my other like
Speaker 2: a small little issue, but actually I think is a
Speaker 2: much bigger thing. Fat phobia is a part of our
Speaker 2: world and certainly is a big, big issue in cinema,
Speaker 2: and like you know, it's so brave of an actor
Speaker 2: or actress to gain in order to play a part.
Speaker 3: And JK.
Speaker 2: Simmons is an interesting choice for Santa, and it's generally
Speaker 2: not seen as a you know, fat, jolly old man.
Speaker 3: And they make a point of this, like he doesn't
Speaker 3: even wear a fat suit when he is the Santa
Speaker 3: in the mall.
Speaker 2: And then they make a point later to show him
Speaker 2: working out and to show how important.
Speaker 3: Like it's not just that he's buff.
Speaker 2: It's that they like they have kind of like that
Speaker 2: training scene where him and the rock or like lifting
Speaker 2: weights together.
Speaker 3: What was your take on that, Like, why was that
Speaker 3: in there? And what did it mean to be in there?
Speaker 1: Okay, my first thought was this is and I should
Speaker 1: say I'm a huge fan of JK. Simmons. He is
Speaker 1: a principal in my top favorite movie, in my top
Speaker 1: four on letterbox Whiplash. I adore JK. Simmons.
Speaker 3: He's the best ja Jon and Jamison. I think whatever, guess.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure. I my first thought was,
Speaker 1: this is an interesting exercise in ego that we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a guy. And those pictures of him training for
Speaker 1: this movie leaked a long time ago, right, he has
Speaker 1: been working to get cut for a long time, and
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of this was I Can I
Speaker 1: do it right? Can I be a different kind of
Speaker 1: Santa in a way that tests my own personal ability
Speaker 1: to shred? And that was my first thought, that this
Speaker 1: was an exercise in ego. I did not consider this
Speaker 1: as a hyper reactionary approach to fat phobia until you
Speaker 1: look at the rest of the movie and realize this
Speaker 1: movie is this is the again. I have to fall
Speaker 1: back to marvelization, right there are the marvel is the
Speaker 1: same aesthetic, right, we don't get any of the characters
Speaker 1: that are alternate bodied are not heroes, right right, And
Speaker 1: that's this movie. And look, the alternate bodied characters who
Speaker 1: are not heroes are elves that are the more of
Speaker 1: the sort of fairy tale elves. They are in their
Speaker 1: own way compared to Santa and family. They are grotesqueries
Speaker 1: in this film.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a really good way to put it.
Speaker 2: And everything I wanna say is I don't think this
Speaker 2: is intentional in the slightest, but I think it's one
Speaker 2: more way that they were sort of like, let's pick
Speaker 2: up any parts of the Santa mythos that we want
Speaker 2: without any consideration for what the choices were making.
Speaker 3: Means.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there is a reason why Santa is betrayed
Speaker 2: as fat and jolly. And you can get very deep
Speaker 2: into like human sociology and psychology that like, you know, originally,
Speaker 2: like you wanted to be fat in the winter because
Speaker 2: there was less food and unless you consume the fact
Speaker 2: you had, you would die. Yeah, And if you were
Speaker 2: thin on November first, you were not living to March first, right, and.
Speaker 1: That's one thing we can guarantee. This Santa was cold
Speaker 1: as a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not an issue. But also I think
Speaker 2: there is something about and here again I am going
Speaker 2: to draw on the Christian themes of it, but I
Speaker 2: think it applies even as it becoming secular. One of
Speaker 2: the basises of Christmas, which is also the basis of
Speaker 2: the winter solstice that a lot of it is drawn from.
Speaker 2: It's also the basis of Hanuka. It's the basis of
Speaker 2: a lot of different cultures. Middle of the winter holiday
Speaker 2: is that in the middle of the winter, when resources
Speaker 2: are at their scarcest, we think we should all we
Speaker 2: have to hoard our resources, that there's not give me
Speaker 2: enough for us, And so the idea of celebrating generosity
Speaker 2: and of giving to others is very intentional at a
Speaker 2: time when you should be keeping it all for yourself.
Speaker 2: And from my mother, that was one of the most
Speaker 2: essential things, you know. And like, yes, diet culture is
Speaker 2: not healthy and the slightest but also like OBC can
Speaker 2: be a real thing. Like I'm not even to touch
Speaker 2: all that, but I know there's a lot of different sides.
Speaker 2: But like you know, my mother's biggest atage was there's
Speaker 2: no there's no diets on Christmas. Like Christmas is abundance.
Speaker 2: Christmas is eat what you want, enjoy what you want.
Speaker 2: All the little things that say, oh, I'm gonna feel
Speaker 2: guilty for eating that, I'm gonna feel guilty for playing
Speaker 2: this game instead of working, Like none of that exists
Speaker 2: on Christmas. And to me, the fact Jolly Santa Claus
Speaker 2: is the is the living representation of so much of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a so I agree with all
Speaker 1: of that, and I think in my core that's that
Speaker 1: aligns with my belief system. If I take a step
Speaker 1: back and just look at the movie and JK. Simmons
Speaker 1: portrayal in the film, I enjoy the swing that they
Speaker 1: take with the character, right. I enjoy the presentation of him.
Speaker 1: There are certain shots that I think are illuminating to
Speaker 1: the character of Santa and the joy that this Santa
Speaker 1: gets in doing the job. In this film, the close
Speaker 1: up with a super wide like a twelve twelve millionaire
Speaker 1: lens where he's in you just get his face with
Speaker 1: the goggles and he's in like slay warp is delightful,
Speaker 1: Like there's just no doubt it is a delightful and
Speaker 1: exuberant expression of the role that he plays in this universe.
Speaker 1: So there are these moments in this film that I
Speaker 1: think actually sell the message of that we're talking about
Speaker 1: with this portrayal of Santa. But it's hard. I think
Speaker 1: the challenge is wrecked is reconciling that with you know
Speaker 1: what it's what it's saying to, you know, the marvelization
Speaker 1: of our holiday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's fair and I'm not
Speaker 2: against that. Like I'm not saying they needed to put
Speaker 2: Jack Simmons in a fat suit or hire a larger actor,
Speaker 2: the whole other ethical questions about fatsuits.
Speaker 3: You're not even to get into that.
Speaker 2: I think you could have had him and even have
Speaker 2: him looking very buff and just not comment on it.
Speaker 2: It was the fact that they made a big deal
Speaker 2: of it and showed him working out and all that,
Speaker 2: where I was like, are you gonna leave us anything
Speaker 2: about Santa? What are you?
Speaker 1: Okay? But Devil's Advocate, he's with the rock right, Like
Speaker 1: there is some comedy, I think some intended comedy of
Speaker 1: having him say okay, let's go heavy, like he is
Speaker 1: the star of the gym while standing next to the Rock,
Speaker 1: who is objectively a fortress of a human being.
Speaker 2: You know, who are some of the biggest weightlifters in
Speaker 2: the world. People with beer guts. Oh, you can be
Speaker 2: incredibly strong and incredibly good at those things. Yeah, without
Speaker 2: having flat you know, washboard apps or whatever.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: Absolutely but that's what I mean, Like, the joke has
Speaker 1: to exist with the performers that we have. And Hollywood
Speaker 1: has said the Rock is an example of a fortress,
Speaker 1: right right, and JK. Simmons next to this you would
Speaker 1: never expect you would just never.
Speaker 3: Expect him to do that.
Speaker 1: So I you know, I sort of feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: we're separating the art from the artists. I kind of
Speaker 1: applaud JK. Simmons for taking on the role for as
Speaker 1: little as he's in it. He's not actually in the
Speaker 1: movie all that much. No, he's the mcguffin much more
Speaker 1: than he's a protagonist.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot about Okay, let's talk just briefly
Speaker 1: about Chris Evans and the setup that they give us
Speaker 1: for this role that Chris Evans is says you said
Speaker 1: in the in your opening, he's the guy you can
Speaker 1: find anyone. He is useless in this movie, right, we don't.
Speaker 1: He is under skilled. He's constantly talking about how he's
Speaker 1: never done this before. Why is why did we need
Speaker 1: him in this movie were it not for the spectacle
Speaker 1: of putting Chris Evans next to the Rock like it
Speaker 1: was his part was weirdly underwritten for this film.
Speaker 2: See I think part of this maybe I just don't
Speaker 2: like The Rock. I don't find the Rock entertaining. I
Speaker 2: am always like for me, Vin Diesel and The Rock
Speaker 2: have kind of had similar career paths, except that Vin
Speaker 2: Diesel has always been in the shadow of the Rock.
Speaker 2: And I will forever think that's the fault. That's the
Speaker 2: best sign of the failure of big Hollywood, because I
Speaker 2: think Vin Diesel is just an amazingly better actor, much
Speaker 2: better looking, and Franklin doesn't have all the nonsense in
Speaker 2: the contract that the Rock does.
Speaker 3: He always has to be.
Speaker 2: The hero and well and look ruined Black Adam And
Speaker 2: we have a whole podcast about.
Speaker 1: That you can go check out, of course, and look
Speaker 1: at the legacy of this movie. Will forever be that
Speaker 1: The Rock costs this movie an extra fifty million dollars
Speaker 1: for his craziness, his tardiness, his his Shenanigans.
Speaker 2: And so so there's a part of me that's like,
Speaker 2: if Hollywood had a Naughty List and wasn't just putting
Speaker 2: everyone on the Night List at some point, wouldn't say
Speaker 2: that someone say The Rock you're not worth the money.
Speaker 2: But even so, take it back to what you were saying,
Speaker 2: I think this goes to a larger question in filmmaking,
Speaker 2: which is what is your responsibility in telling an original
Speaker 2: story versus picking up pieces that have a lot of
Speaker 2: meaning to other people and telling your version of a
Speaker 2: story with them. Because if you gave me a story
Speaker 2: about JK. Simmons as a completely fictionalized not Santa being
Speaker 2: that still was a better weightlifter than The Rock and
Speaker 2: Chris Evans in The Rock and told us all of
Speaker 2: that outside of the realm of a Santa story, I'm
Speaker 2: totally fine with it. I'm not gonna watch it because
Speaker 2: I'm not going to enjoy it, But if it makes
Speaker 2: two hundred million dollars or five hundred million dollars, sure,
Speaker 2: I'm glad people had fun with that, and I might
Speaker 2: actually see because I love Chris even so much so
Speaker 2: his acting talent, as you said, was horribly under used
Speaker 2: in this but when you pick up the mantle of Santa,
Speaker 2: which does have a lot of meaning for people and
Speaker 2: probably should be parodied more. And like if this was
Speaker 2: actually just fill on skewing Santa and it was about
Speaker 2: like a labor rights fight at the North Pole, and
Speaker 2: it was that he worked out all the time, but
Speaker 2: he wears a fat suit when he goes out, Like,
Speaker 2: I would love that, give me that any day.
Speaker 1: Well, for instance, what's your perspective on Arthur Christmas? Right,
Speaker 1: Arthur Christmas does a change of hands in an animated format,
Speaker 1: but it changes it. It does approach some big swings
Speaker 1: about the nature of Christmas and what the symbols mean.
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't seen that, but I'm sure it is.
Speaker 2: I just mean, like, it's fine to take a symbol
Speaker 2: and take it in a new way, but have some
Speaker 2: respect for what the symbol originally means, even if you're
Speaker 2: disagreeing with that, right, And it just felt like the
Speaker 2: whole body shape body thing.
Speaker 3: You know, in a world where people are.
Speaker 2: Just told again and again, don't you shouldn't eat so
Speaker 2: much a Christmas because look at your weight or this
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's a small thing, but
Speaker 2: I think it's just why, it's why it kind of
Speaker 2: oversized feeling for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunate way to phrase that.
Speaker 2: But last thing I'll say is I do think there
Speaker 2: is one important aspect to Chris Evans's character, even if
Speaker 2: I think the whole thing with him and his son
Speaker 2: was ridiculously schlocky and over the top, but I think
Speaker 2: it's supposed that. To me, the failure of the Christmas
Speaker 2: Witch ideology is once you do a naughty thing, you
Speaker 2: are forever on the naughty list. Yes, and it's the
Speaker 2: most trope troped story in all of Hollywood. But the
Speaker 2: idea that a person who is bad can become good,
Speaker 2: I think that's the role Chris Evans's character plays more
Speaker 2: than anything that's the movie, and he does a fine
Speaker 2: job of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, the ultimately the message of the
Speaker 1: movie is that every moment is a moment to choose
Speaker 1: to do good right right, And I like that message.
Speaker 1: Like everything that we're talking about, that's sort of a
Speaker 1: seed that is good for Humanity's let's do more of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there are pieces in here that I think are good.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you, like, with all that is
Speaker 1: frustrating about this movie. Can you give me something you
Speaker 1: legitimately liked about it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Crampas I thought was awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, good, So we're definitely in the bag on Crampus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it is pretty well. This
Speaker 2: is not the worst movie I've ever seen. It is
Speaker 2: probably the worst Christmas movie I've ever seen and the
Speaker 2: one that made me angriest.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's it's it's got something redeeming.
Speaker 1: Okay, we have a Bonnie Hunt was one of those.
Speaker 1: It was a felt stunt castie to me. For some reason.
Speaker 1: She's a face that a lot of people know, especially
Speaker 1: coming from Sabrina and or not Sabrina right anyway, She's
Speaker 1: just a comic face that I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people know. She was great, Lucy.
Speaker 2: The best comment I saw is that she was doing
Speaker 2: her best January Jones impression, which January Jones is the
Speaker 2: character from The X Men who, and that this actress
Speaker 2: played Sally Draper. January Jones was played by Sally Draper's mother,
Speaker 2: so that's kind of fitting that she is like doing that.
Speaker 1: But yes, sure, Lucy lou was interesting to see her again,
Speaker 1: an interesting choice, and I think she plays the mingnaw When.
Speaker 3: I said, now Win and Matt Lucy Lou, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Well, That's why I brought it up because I think
Speaker 1: I think she and Mingnaw Win have a corner on
Speaker 1: authoritative Asian women in film and TV, and so she
Speaker 1: did great. Nick Kroll, we're just stand on Nick Kroll.
Speaker 3: Who's that?
Speaker 1: Nick Kroll is?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: He was the protected by the Carmenians on the beach.
Speaker 3: He was, Yes, he is the guy who's oft in vanned.
Speaker 3: He comes from the League.
Speaker 1: He comes from the League of a web show about
Speaker 1: the stand up and it's it Is The League is.
Speaker 1: And I have to admit I am a huge fan
Speaker 1: of The League. I watched every episode. It's a very
Speaker 1: very funny show. It is completely foul mouthed and and
Speaker 1: you know, I loved it. He is a stand up.
Speaker 1: He is a consummate creator and I think a genuinely
Speaker 1: funny guy. I always have an interesting kind of relationship
Speaker 1: when I see him in films that aren't that yeah right,
Speaker 1: he's a bit of a sore thumb.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think the thing is he's playing himself. He's
Speaker 2: playing the same role he always plays, and I've seen
Speaker 2: that a million times. What I haven't seen is a
Speaker 2: grown up Sally Draper. Yeah, and we we learned very
Speaker 2: quickly that it is Sally drape Tell.
Speaker 3: Me the actress's name again.
Speaker 2: Bonnie Hunt, Bonnie Hunt, thank you, that it is Bonnie
Speaker 2: Hunt speaking through him, and we get every now and
Speaker 2: then we get Bonnie Hunt speaking through him.
Speaker 1: No, that was the I'm sorry, we're crossing names. Bonnie
Speaker 1: Hunt was missus Claws. Okay, it was Kiernan shipka.
Speaker 3: La okay, thank you.
Speaker 2: So I may have confused things before earlier when I
Speaker 2: was talking about that, but like, yeah, to me, knowing
Speaker 2: that it could be her saying all these lines and
Speaker 2: instead it's coming through his mouth, I was just annoyed.
Speaker 2: I was just like, you've got a much better choice there.
Speaker 2: Why not just it could be his face and he
Speaker 2: makes very humorous faces, but why not make it her voice?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting because he's such I think
Speaker 1: your point is well taken that this was a Nick
Speaker 1: Kroll performance, and it was very much about like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, we know Nick Kroll. He's a friend of ours.
Speaker 1: Let's we're shooting for a day, come on in right right, Well,
Speaker 1: and I think.
Speaker 2: That it very much fits the the the audience to
Speaker 2: go because if what's going for as teenage boys, yeah,
Speaker 2: which it seems.
Speaker 3: A lot of the way they are, that's that's who
Speaker 3: he very much is an audience for. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think as again, if you if I separate
Speaker 1: myself from the from the undercurrent of ideological consternation that
Speaker 1: I bring to it. I was smiling during more of
Speaker 1: this movie than I was not, mostly because, as I
Speaker 1: call it, the pixel parade I thought was fun. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed the the uh just the visual depiction of the
Speaker 1: North Pole. I enjoy the slides. I enjoy the the
Speaker 1: in particular, I always enjoy I think this is a
Speaker 1: the The depiction of Santa delivering presence is a fascinating
Speaker 1: thing in film and television, and I liked the choices
Speaker 1: they made in that montage. In the end, it just
Speaker 1: was fun. It was fun going through the cooking events
Speaker 1: and like answering questions that everybody says, how does Santa
Speaker 1: do all this? And they tried to include some new swings.
Speaker 1: Here's how Santa does these things in you know, condos
Speaker 1: and buildings and things that don't have chimneys, and so
Speaker 1: there were things in this movie that they tried that
Speaker 1: I do think works. So it's like you said, it's
Speaker 1: not the worst movie I've ever seen. It's absolutely not.
Speaker 1: It is a middling to fair popcorn movie that requires,
Speaker 1: I think, especially for younger people, a little bit of discussion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say for me, I think it's
Speaker 2: probably in my worst five movies of all time, like
Speaker 2: I did the time. And part of that's because I
Speaker 2: think I just find joy in those things that you did.
Speaker 2: And it may be because I do have very strong
Speaker 2: feelings about Christmas, and I think part of that's religious
Speaker 2: important that it has nothing to do with religion. It's
Speaker 2: just about the like my mother loving it so much,
Speaker 2: and my loving the family aspect and all that. But
Speaker 2: also I just I don't find the rock enjoyable. I
Speaker 2: don't find that I've seen the CGI Snowman stuff, not
Speaker 2: actual Snowman, but i've seen CGI monsters so much, like
Speaker 2: I don't really like Marvel stuff anymore. I started a
Speaker 2: podcast called Superherotics because I love the MCU and I've
Speaker 2: not liking it beating so CGI's so, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's great. Like I wanted to know more about why
Speaker 2: someone would enjoy this movie, and so that's awesome. And
Speaker 2: I don't think it's good or bad, it's just you know,
Speaker 2: different tastes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no for sure. And you know, here's the
Speaker 1: biggest question of these movies that get released at this
Speaker 1: time of year is does it become an annual staple?
Speaker 1: And I can say with out qualification, this is not
Speaker 1: an annual staple at all. It's a one and done
Speaker 1: and it's fine because I gotta go watch Spirited.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, so if you want to know what are our
Speaker 2: annual staples, you should become a member because we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about that for just a few minutes in
Speaker 2: our bonus member content. You become a member for only
Speaker 2: five dollars a month or fifty five dollars a year,
Speaker 2: all the informations on our show notes, You get bonus episodes,
Speaker 2: bonus content, add free content. If you want to listen
Speaker 2: to a highly commercialized movie without commercials, that's the way
Speaker 2: to do it. And of course this being the holidays,
Speaker 2: you can even give someone a gift of a membership.
Speaker 2: And not only can you give someone a gift of
Speaker 2: a membership by and also help out this podcast, you
Speaker 2: could give them a gift of an audible subscription.
Speaker 3: Do you listen to books on.
Speaker 1: Tape, Pete, Yes, exhaustively.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's just you're doing the dishes. You're on
Speaker 3: a drive. I've had so much easier to consume media.
Speaker 2: That way, you can give a gift of an audible
Speaker 2: subscription through our podcast.
Speaker 3: Again, the link is in the show notes.
Speaker 2: And like, okay, for every if you have a kid
Speaker 2: in your life, have you watched that kid pick up
Speaker 2: a roll of unwrapped wrapping paper or even wrapped wrapping
Speaker 2: paper and hit people with it and go.
Speaker 3: They're not pretending it's a sword. They're pretending it's a lightsaber.
Speaker 2: What if you could get them an actual lightsaber that
Speaker 2: lights up and makes noises and it's good in a
Speaker 2: fight if you want to use it for like martial
Speaker 2: lights fighting, you can do all that at level up lightsabers.
Speaker 2: Link is in our show notes. I'm trying to demonstrate
Speaker 2: to Pete that I'm doing a good job of inserting
Speaker 2: these ads all through the episode, and so I did
Speaker 2: a terrible job of leaving them all to the end
Speaker 2: of the episode. But please help me look good in
Speaker 2: the eyes of Pete by bigging up those numbers. Become
Speaker 2: a member, by an audible subscription, by a lightsaber.
Speaker 3: But whatever you do, remember we have spoken.