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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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where we left off with the Tovin Noel interview with

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the OIG Inspectors. Question, what were you saying about Where're

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going to be in trouble? Noel? Thomas said that question.

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That's what I'm asking. Did he have a conversation? Did

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you have a conversation with Thomas? Answer? No, question, Well,

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did you have that right question? No? He said We're

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going to be in so much trouble. I didn't say anything. Question. Okay,

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So what statement did he make to you? Noel? Get

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the cutter and then I heard the rip. He lowered

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him to the floor. He was doing CPR. He said,

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breathe Epstein, breathe, and he said, we're going to be

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in so much trouble. But I never said anything. Question.

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You didn't respond to We're going to be in so

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much trouble, Noel, no question. Do you know why he

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said you're going to be in so much trouble? Noel?

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Because we didn't do the count question okay, Union Rep

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pipes in. I think it's important though, that you conveyed

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to him like that. You didn't understand the magnitude of

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what had just taken place, right, because that's something that

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you had expressed, so like not knowing what a cutter was,

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And maybe that gives insight into why there wasn't a

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more in depth conversation. I think it's important. Noel. Yeah,

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when he said to get the cutter, like I would

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have to go try to look for where a cutter was,

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but he didn't need it because he heard the rib.

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And then when he said he was going to be

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in so much trouble, like still wasn't thinking like the

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trouble that we're in now. I was just probably thinking

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because I know we didn't do the count. But I

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never responded because all the inmates by this time are

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on the door. Question because they're all watching Noel, Yeah, question,

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this all take place. One of the other investigators pipes in.

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I've got a question. You said you opened the grill.

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Did we have keys to open Epstein's thee well Noel

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who Thomas questioned Thomas? Noel, Yeah, he has the door keys.

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So there's two separate sets of keys. Noel, yes, question,

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so that's the keys that stayed with him the whole time.

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Noel yes. Question. But those door keys, so on the

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keychain that you have, what does that open? Noel? The

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grills question, that's it, Noel. There's other keys, the grill,

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the front door, that middle door, but not the inside

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cell door key question. That's what Thomas Noel. Yeah. Question.

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Now when you look inside the cell, you said you

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could see only Epstein's upper body. Where was he hanging? Noel,

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I don't know. I didn't see that part. Question. And

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when you heard the thud or you know, the rip

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and then the body landing, did you look inside to

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see what he was doing? Noel? When he when the

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body because when he lowered the body, he stepped back

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like to come like it's almost like he was backing

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up because you're bringing him down. So that's how I come.

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I was able to see just that part, but I

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didn't like go look in the cell. I was still

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on the grill question. So that's what I was trying

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to understand. Where exactly was he hanging? Noel, I don't know,

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because I don't know where he took him down from.

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I just only heard the rip and then he was

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walking the body light down question, So he was basically

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his arms were behind Epstein Noel, right, and he was

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bringing him bringing him down. Question was there a mattress

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on the floor Noel. While I'm assuming because the mattress

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was on the floor earlier, but I don't know. Question.

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So from where you were standing, you couldn't see the

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actual mattress, Noel, mattress no question. So he wasn't doing

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CPR like on top of a mattress, Noel, No, not

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that I can remember. Question. Do you remember what Epstein

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was wearing from what you could see? Noel. He didn't

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have a shirt on. Question, So not even like a

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rip shirt. Nothing was on Noel, he didn't have a

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shirt on. Question. Okay. And that time when you saw him,

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did you see anything around his neck? Noel? No question.

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And when you say no, are you saying that there

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was nothing around his neck? Noel, No, there was nothing

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around his neck. Question. So there was nothing around his neck. Okay.

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What did he look like? Noel? Blue? Question? He looked blue?

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Did he look like bloated or puffy or anything? Noel,

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No question. Did he look like he was deceased? Question?

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Or Noel, his face looked blue? Question? Any reason for

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you to believe that he was alive? Noel, no question.

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No did you see any kind of breath or anything? Noel,

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no question. What did his cell look like from where

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you could see, Noel, it wasn't really looking at his cell,

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but at that point I was just looking at Thomas

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doing CPR. I didn't look in there to see what

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he was doing. Question. Okay, so you didn't notice anything

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like unusual in the cell Noel, no question. When Thomas

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went to his door, did you notice if he actually

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had to use his key to open it or was

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it do you know if it was actually already opened? Noel,

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he used the key too open it. Question. So are

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you confident that the door was locked? Noel, Yeah, because

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he knocked and then he used to key to open it.

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He knocked, he knocked, he didn't get a response, and

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then he used the key to open question. Was there

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any indication that any of the other inmates could have

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gotten out of their selves? Noel, no question. And you

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said you don't know if Thomas actually checked to c

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if he was alive. Noel, Yeah, I don't know. Question.

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You just know that you went straight into compressions. And

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did you say that the two or three minutes that

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you stood there, how long were you actually at the

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redacted when they walked into the door, Noel, When I

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went to get them to come to the door between

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the time she gets cut off, so you let Thomas

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goes in. He goes into the room. He's making these

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you know, you're watching him do some compressions. He makes

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the statement, we're going to be in so much trouble.

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How long are you standing there while you're observing this, Noel,

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about two minutes, because I'm waiting for the radio is

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going to tell me when everybody because remember, once I

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hit the button, everybody's coming, So the radio is going

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to tell me when everybody's at or where everybody's at.

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And they're at the door, and then I pop the

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door and I let them in. So I go to

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the door. She gets cut off, and you never entered

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the cell, Noel, no question. Who is the second person

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to enter Epstein's cell, Noel, That I don't remember because

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everybody came right at the time. I don't remember. Question. So, okay,

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you don't remember the first person on the scene, Noel,

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no question. Did they assist at all with the medical emergency? Noel,

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no question. No, So, what action did you take after

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the people arrived. What did you do, Noel. Nothing, They

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told me to get out of the way. Question, so

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did you like leave the teer Noel, I was on

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the bottom of the stairs. Question like observing Noel? Yeah,

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question okay, what did you observe from the bottom on

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the stairs When people arrived, Noel, they got a stretcher

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and they put them on a stretcher and brought them out.

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Question did anyone take over the CPR efforts that Thomas

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was doing? Noel, I don't remember. Question you don't remember

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seeing this, so this isn't something that's vivid in your memory,

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you know, like this whole big occurrence. You're not almost

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like you're playing it in slow motion, Noell. No, because

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when Thomas was doing CPR, then when they came, they

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took the stretcher and put them on the stretcher and left.

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As far as when they're remember, it's a lot of people,

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so I'm not really seeing like who's two steps they're

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coming out with them? Question about how many people responded, Noel,

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I don't know, maybe ten, fifteen. Question and they didn't

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know what they were responding to. They just knew it

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was a medical emergency. It wasn't announced it was Epstein. Noell, No,

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there ain't nobody that indiscernible question. And is that typical

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for ten to fifteen people to respond to a medical emergency? Noel,

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there is no number. It's whoever is in the building

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and the body alarm goes off once you're not in

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a post, because when you're on a post, you can't

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leave your post. But everybody else in the building responds

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question and they just leave wherever they were to respond, Noel. Yeah,

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question Okay. One of the other investigators has a question.

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I've got a question. When a body alarm is hit,

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who gets notified? Noel? Control question? And how do they

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differentiate between an inmate altercation versus a medical emergency? Noel.

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I mean the person that's hitting the body alarm can

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say it, but there's no differentiation. So either way the

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response is the same question. So you could have said it,

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you just didn't say anything, Noel. Like when I hit

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the button, I could have said medical emergency on the radio. Yeah,

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but I could have said that question, but you didn't, Noel. No,

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because it's the same response question, right, has anybody ever

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hit it accidentally? Noel? Yeah, And same thing question and

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people rush. Noel, Yeah, everybody comes. Question all right, and

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you said you stood there for a little while on

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the bottom of the steps. You observe some people going in.

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You don't know who took over CPR Noel, I don't know.

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Question do you remember who put him on the stretcher? Noel,

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I don't know. Question did you see anybody like fall

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or anything going on the stretcher? Noel, no question. Did

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he ever fall off the stretcher? Noel know. Question did

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anyone drop him off the stretcher? Noel know? When they

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were removing him, did you see him like get knocked

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or anything like that? Noel, no question. Anything. Then, did

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you notice anything that could have caused additional injuries to

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his body aside from the hanging that that would have

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caused Noell, no question. What did Thomas do after people responded? Noel,

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After they took him out on the stretcher, he left.

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Question so not after the stretcher once at least one

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person showed up. Do you know what Thomas did? Noel know,

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because I'm at the bottom of the stairs, so I

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don't know. Remember they're on the top. I'm at the bottom,

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so I don't know. Question so could you even see

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in at all at this point? Noel? No I could

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only see that when they were coming down with them

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on the stretcher because I'm at the bottom. I can't

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see up there now. Question okay, so after you were

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standing there, when you let people in, you really couldn't

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see in the door anymore? Noel. No question. Okay, what

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happened when they came out with the stretcher, Noel, they

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left out of the shoe with them. Question did you

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go with them? Noel? No I had to stay. Question

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you stayed in the shoe. Did anyone stay with you? Noel?

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No question? You were there alone? Noel alone? Question and

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what did you have to do at this time? Noel?

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I kept calling Control like what's going on? And they

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was like, somebody's going to come, like help you, because

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remember we're supposed to feed. Question how long were you

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in the shoe by yourself after they left? Noel? Maybe

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like twenty fifteen or twenty minutes. Question, so just do

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you remember now? I want you to say these names

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to make sure that they were actually there. Do you

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remember if the first person to arrive in the shoe

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was Lieutenant redacted? Does that help spark a recollection of

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who arrived first, since you were there and the one

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who let him in, Noel, when the medical I don't

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know who arrived first, but he was in there. Question

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because you're the one that had to let him in, right, Noel, Yeah,

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but I don't remember who came in first, but I

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remember he was there. Question how about redacted? Noel? Yes? Question,

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how do you spell the last name? Redacted? Question? Okay?

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And did you say anything to these people that arrived Noel,

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no question. You didn't say like it's Epstein or Epstein

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hung himself or anything. Noell know the only thing that

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they asked because when they come on, they want to

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know where the emergency is. So I just pointed up

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the stairs. Question okay, did you make any statements to

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anybody about saying we didn't do the rounds at three

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am and five am? Noel? No. After Lieutenant redacted asked

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me what happened. When I was getting ready to answer him,

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Thomas came off the elevator and was like, oh, it's

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not her fault, we fucked up. Question So at first,

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did you say we didn't do a round at three am? Noel?

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No question? And then he responded, it's not your fault.

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We didn't do the rounds. We messed up, Noel. No

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I didn't say that question. So that's not your recollection

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that you saying we didn't do the three am and

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five am rounds. Noell, no question. Okay, So they're saying

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that you said that. Do you think that they're mistaken

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that you told them that, Noel, I don't really recall

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saying that question. Okay, So you don't recall, but it's

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possible that you could have said that, Noel, probably, but

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I don't recall saying it. I remember Lieutenant redacted asked

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me what happened, and I was getting ready to tell

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him what happened, and Thomas came off the elevator and

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said that. But I don't recall saying that question. And

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this is after Thomas came back from bringing Epstein down. Noel. Well,

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he went down with him question and then he came back.

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So when you say, by the elevator, where was the elevator, Noel?

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In the hallway question outside the shoe in the shoe, Noel,

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like right the door, the first door question, So the

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first door of what Noel? The shoe question? So is

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that outside of the shoe Noel, Like, right outside the

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door the shoe door. Question outside the second outer door, Noel. Yeah. Question,

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so right outside of the outer door, this is where

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you had a conversation with who Noel? Lieutenant redacted? Question?

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Who else was present? Noell? Nobody else, just me and

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him and Thomas. Question okay, And he asked you what happened? Noel?

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He asked me what happened? And the elevator door opened

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and Thomas came out of the elevator. I was getting

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ready to answer, and Thomas said, it's not her fault.

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We fucked up. Question. And you know why he made

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that statement, Noel. I think because he didn't want to

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do the counts. Question. But why did he say it

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wasn't your fault? Noel? Because I kept waking them up.

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So maybe that's why he said that. Question. Was he

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trying to take more of the responsibility, Noel? I guess? So?

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Question would that be all right? Is it true that

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if the count is not done and the round sheet,

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which is filled out after thirty minutes, also cannot be

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completed From twelve thirty am to six thirty three am,

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that's not actually my question from twelve thirty am to

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six thirty none of the rounds orccounts were completed. Correct, Noel, correct.

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Question all right? And is it true that at the

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end of the shift the supervising lieutenant signs and sends

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the completed blog of the inmate movements from the day.

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Do you know if that's true? Noel. I don't know

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that they signed, but they signed something. I don't know

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if that's it. Question do they sign, for like instance,

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the round sheets? Do the lieutenant sign that? Noel, Yes,

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they signed that question. But they don't sign the count slips,

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do they Noel, No question, just the round sheets, Noel, Yes,