Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the Tovin Noel interview with
the OIG Inspectors. Question, what were you saying about Where're
going to be in trouble? Noel? Thomas said that question.
That's what I'm asking. Did he have a conversation? Did
you have a conversation with Thomas? Answer? No, question, Well,
did you have that right question? No? He said We're
going to be in so much trouble. I didn't say anything. Question. Okay,
So what statement did he make to you? Noel? Get
the cutter and then I heard the rip. He lowered
him to the floor. He was doing CPR. He said,
breathe Epstein, breathe, and he said, we're going to be
in so much trouble. But I never said anything. Question.
You didn't respond to We're going to be in so
much trouble, Noel, no question. Do you know why he
said you're going to be in so much trouble? Noel?
Because we didn't do the count question okay, Union Rep
pipes in. I think it's important though, that you conveyed
to him like that. You didn't understand the magnitude of
what had just taken place, right, because that's something that
you had expressed, so like not knowing what a cutter was,
And maybe that gives insight into why there wasn't a
more in depth conversation. I think it's important. Noel. Yeah,
when he said to get the cutter, like I would
have to go try to look for where a cutter was,
but he didn't need it because he heard the rib.
And then when he said he was going to be
in so much trouble, like still wasn't thinking like the
trouble that we're in now. I was just probably thinking
because I know we didn't do the count. But I
never responded because all the inmates by this time are
on the door. Question because they're all watching Noel, Yeah, question,
this all take place. One of the other investigators pipes in.
I've got a question. You said you opened the grill.
Did we have keys to open Epstein's thee well Noel
who Thomas questioned Thomas? Noel, Yeah, he has the door keys.
So there's two separate sets of keys. Noel, yes, question,
so that's the keys that stayed with him the whole time.
Noel yes. Question. But those door keys, so on the
keychain that you have, what does that open? Noel? The
grills question, that's it, Noel. There's other keys, the grill,
the front door, that middle door, but not the inside
cell door key question. That's what Thomas Noel. Yeah. Question.
Now when you look inside the cell, you said you
could see only Epstein's upper body. Where was he hanging? Noel,
I don't know. I didn't see that part. Question. And
when you heard the thud or you know, the rip
and then the body landing, did you look inside to
see what he was doing? Noel? When he when the
body because when he lowered the body, he stepped back
like to come like it's almost like he was backing
up because you're bringing him down. So that's how I come.
I was able to see just that part, but I
didn't like go look in the cell. I was still
on the grill question. So that's what I was trying
to understand. Where exactly was he hanging? Noel, I don't know,
because I don't know where he took him down from.
I just only heard the rip and then he was
walking the body light down question, So he was basically
his arms were behind Epstein Noel, right, and he was
bringing him bringing him down. Question was there a mattress
on the floor Noel. While I'm assuming because the mattress
was on the floor earlier, but I don't know. Question.
So from where you were standing, you couldn't see the
actual mattress, Noel, mattress no question. So he wasn't doing
CPR like on top of a mattress, Noel, No, not
that I can remember. Question. Do you remember what Epstein
was wearing from what you could see? Noel. He didn't
have a shirt on. Question, So not even like a
rip shirt. Nothing was on Noel, he didn't have a
shirt on. Question. Okay. And that time when you saw him,
did you see anything around his neck? Noel? No question.
And when you say no, are you saying that there
was nothing around his neck? Noel, No, there was nothing
around his neck. Question. So there was nothing around his neck. Okay.
What did he look like? Noel? Blue? Question? He looked blue?
Did he look like bloated or puffy or anything? Noel,
No question. Did he look like he was deceased? Question?
Or Noel, his face looked blue? Question? Any reason for
you to believe that he was alive? Noel, no question.
No did you see any kind of breath or anything? Noel,
no question. What did his cell look like from where
you could see, Noel, it wasn't really looking at his cell,
but at that point I was just looking at Thomas
doing CPR. I didn't look in there to see what
he was doing. Question. Okay, so you didn't notice anything
like unusual in the cell Noel, no question. When Thomas
went to his door, did you notice if he actually
had to use his key to open it or was
it do you know if it was actually already opened? Noel,
he used the key too open it. Question. So are
you confident that the door was locked? Noel, Yeah, because
he knocked and then he used to key to open it.
He knocked, he knocked, he didn't get a response, and
then he used the key to open question. Was there
any indication that any of the other inmates could have
gotten out of their selves? Noel, no question. And you
said you don't know if Thomas actually checked to c
if he was alive. Noel, Yeah, I don't know. Question.
You just know that you went straight into compressions. And
did you say that the two or three minutes that
you stood there, how long were you actually at the
redacted when they walked into the door, Noel, When I
went to get them to come to the door between
the time she gets cut off, so you let Thomas
goes in. He goes into the room. He's making these
you know, you're watching him do some compressions. He makes
the statement, we're going to be in so much trouble.
How long are you standing there while you're observing this, Noel,
about two minutes, because I'm waiting for the radio is
going to tell me when everybody because remember, once I
hit the button, everybody's coming, So the radio is going
to tell me when everybody's at or where everybody's at.
And they're at the door, and then I pop the
door and I let them in. So I go to
the door. She gets cut off, and you never entered
the cell, Noel, no question. Who is the second person
to enter Epstein's cell, Noel, That I don't remember because
everybody came right at the time. I don't remember. Question. So, okay,
you don't remember the first person on the scene, Noel,
no question. Did they assist at all with the medical emergency? Noel,
no question. No, So, what action did you take after
the people arrived. What did you do, Noel. Nothing, They
told me to get out of the way. Question, so
did you like leave the teer Noel, I was on
the bottom of the stairs. Question like observing Noel? Yeah,
question okay, what did you observe from the bottom on
the stairs When people arrived, Noel, they got a stretcher
and they put them on a stretcher and brought them out.
Question did anyone take over the CPR efforts that Thomas
was doing? Noel, I don't remember. Question you don't remember
seeing this, so this isn't something that's vivid in your memory,
you know, like this whole big occurrence. You're not almost
like you're playing it in slow motion, Noell. No, because
when Thomas was doing CPR, then when they came, they
took the stretcher and put them on the stretcher and left.
As far as when they're remember, it's a lot of people,
so I'm not really seeing like who's two steps they're
coming out with them? Question about how many people responded, Noel,
I don't know, maybe ten, fifteen. Question and they didn't
know what they were responding to. They just knew it
was a medical emergency. It wasn't announced it was Epstein. Noell, No,
there ain't nobody that indiscernible question. And is that typical
for ten to fifteen people to respond to a medical emergency? Noel,
there is no number. It's whoever is in the building
and the body alarm goes off once you're not in
a post, because when you're on a post, you can't
leave your post. But everybody else in the building responds
question and they just leave wherever they were to respond, Noel. Yeah,
question Okay. One of the other investigators has a question.
I've got a question. When a body alarm is hit,
who gets notified? Noel? Control question? And how do they
differentiate between an inmate altercation versus a medical emergency? Noel.
I mean the person that's hitting the body alarm can
say it, but there's no differentiation. So either way the
response is the same question. So you could have said it,
you just didn't say anything, Noel. Like when I hit
the button, I could have said medical emergency on the radio. Yeah,
but I could have said that question, but you didn't, Noel. No,
because it's the same response question, right, has anybody ever
hit it accidentally? Noel? Yeah, And same thing question and
people rush. Noel, Yeah, everybody comes. Question all right, and
you said you stood there for a little while on
the bottom of the steps. You observe some people going in.
You don't know who took over CPR Noel, I don't know.
Question do you remember who put him on the stretcher? Noel,
I don't know. Question did you see anybody like fall
or anything going on the stretcher? Noel, no question. Did
he ever fall off the stretcher? Noel know. Question did
anyone drop him off the stretcher? Noel know? When they
were removing him, did you see him like get knocked
or anything like that? Noel, no question. Anything. Then, did
you notice anything that could have caused additional injuries to
his body aside from the hanging that that would have
caused Noell, no question. What did Thomas do after people responded? Noel,
After they took him out on the stretcher, he left.
Question so not after the stretcher once at least one
person showed up. Do you know what Thomas did? Noel know,
because I'm at the bottom of the stairs, so I
don't know. Remember they're on the top. I'm at the bottom,
so I don't know. Question so could you even see
in at all at this point? Noel? No I could
only see that when they were coming down with them
on the stretcher because I'm at the bottom. I can't
see up there now. Question okay, so after you were
standing there, when you let people in, you really couldn't
see in the door anymore? Noel. No question. Okay, what
happened when they came out with the stretcher, Noel, they
left out of the shoe with them. Question did you
go with them? Noel? No I had to stay. Question
you stayed in the shoe. Did anyone stay with you? Noel?
No question? You were there alone? Noel alone? Question and
what did you have to do at this time? Noel?
I kept calling Control like what's going on? And they
was like, somebody's going to come, like help you, because
remember we're supposed to feed. Question how long were you
in the shoe by yourself after they left? Noel? Maybe
like twenty fifteen or twenty minutes. Question, so just do
you remember now? I want you to say these names
to make sure that they were actually there. Do you
remember if the first person to arrive in the shoe
was Lieutenant redacted? Does that help spark a recollection of
who arrived first, since you were there and the one
who let him in, Noel, when the medical I don't
know who arrived first, but he was in there. Question
because you're the one that had to let him in, right, Noel, Yeah,
but I don't remember who came in first, but I
remember he was there. Question how about redacted? Noel? Yes? Question,
how do you spell the last name? Redacted? Question? Okay?
And did you say anything to these people that arrived Noel,
no question. You didn't say like it's Epstein or Epstein
hung himself or anything. Noell know the only thing that
they asked because when they come on, they want to
know where the emergency is. So I just pointed up
the stairs. Question okay, did you make any statements to
anybody about saying we didn't do the rounds at three
am and five am? Noel? No. After Lieutenant redacted asked
me what happened. When I was getting ready to answer him,
Thomas came off the elevator and was like, oh, it's
not her fault, we fucked up. Question So at first,
did you say we didn't do a round at three am? Noel?
No question? And then he responded, it's not your fault.
We didn't do the rounds. We messed up, Noel. No
I didn't say that question. So that's not your recollection
that you saying we didn't do the three am and
five am rounds. Noell, no question. Okay, So they're saying
that you said that. Do you think that they're mistaken
that you told them that, Noel, I don't really recall
saying that question. Okay, So you don't recall, but it's
possible that you could have said that, Noel, probably, but
I don't recall saying it. I remember Lieutenant redacted asked
me what happened, and I was getting ready to tell
him what happened, and Thomas came off the elevator and
said that. But I don't recall saying that question. And
this is after Thomas came back from bringing Epstein down. Noel. Well,
he went down with him question and then he came back.
So when you say, by the elevator, where was the elevator, Noel?
In the hallway question outside the shoe in the shoe, Noel,
like right the door, the first door question, So the
first door of what Noel? The shoe question? So is
that outside of the shoe Noel, Like, right outside the
door the shoe door. Question outside the second outer door, Noel. Yeah. Question,
so right outside of the outer door, this is where
you had a conversation with who Noel? Lieutenant redacted? Question?
Who else was present? Noell? Nobody else, just me and
him and Thomas. Question okay, And he asked you what happened? Noel?
He asked me what happened? And the elevator door opened
and Thomas came out of the elevator. I was getting
ready to answer, and Thomas said, it's not her fault.
We fucked up. Question. And you know why he made
that statement, Noel. I think because he didn't want to
do the counts. Question. But why did he say it
wasn't your fault? Noel? Because I kept waking them up.
So maybe that's why he said that. Question. Was he
trying to take more of the responsibility, Noel? I guess? So?
Question would that be all right? Is it true that
if the count is not done and the round sheet,
which is filled out after thirty minutes, also cannot be
completed From twelve thirty am to six thirty three am,
that's not actually my question from twelve thirty am to
six thirty none of the rounds orccounts were completed. Correct, Noel, correct.
Question all right? And is it true that at the
end of the shift the supervising lieutenant signs and sends
the completed blog of the inmate movements from the day.
Do you know if that's true? Noel. I don't know
that they signed, but they signed something. I don't know
if that's it. Question do they sign, for like instance,
the round sheets? Do the lieutenant sign that? Noel, Yes,
they signed that question. But they don't sign the count slips,
do they Noel, No question, just the round sheets, Noel, Yes,