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Speaker 1: What's up, fellows, tecos, the post mortem train rolls on.

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Slash off season look ahead train rolls on because we're

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not just talking.

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Speaker 2: About playoff teams.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna go when to eat it every team and

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kind of look at their offseason and let's get into it.

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The Los Angeles Clippers, Grant, did you want to take

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us through their vitals after? I honestly think that this

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is one of the most confusing teams for me as

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we get into post mortems following that seven game set

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with Denver.

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Speaker 3: I mean, better to be confusing than hopeless, which is

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what we thought they were seven months ago or give

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or take. So basically, the Clippers are fifteen point one

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million under the tax or twenty three point one million

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and twenty three point one million.

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Speaker 2: Under the first apron.

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Speaker 3: This assumes though Harden at thirty six point three and

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Betoom at four point nine pick up their player options.

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Speaker 2: We could talk about that all. This also assumes that.

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Speaker 3: A Mere Coffee is a goner Andrew Ubanks is also gone.

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They should be able to access the non taxpayer mid

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level exception. At fourteen point one one million, they can

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trade up to three first rounders after the draft they

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have a twenty twenty five first via the thunder and

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conditional first in twenty thirty and twenty thirty two.

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Speaker 2: Should we start with.

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Speaker 3: The hardened player option because that feels like a pretty

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big pivot point to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think to me, I look at it

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through the lens of is he just gonna exercise it?

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Or is this we're penciling him in for the Clippers

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with a new number, because I don't you don't see

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a scenario in which he opts out and leaves.

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Speaker 3: Right, No, I mean, I'm my best guess is he'll

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opt out and look for a like two year eighty

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million or ninety million or something something like that, one

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plus one, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: And I think if you're the Clippers, you probably just

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have to do it, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, although you can squeeze him a little bit

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because like, like you're alluding to where are.

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Speaker 2: You gonna go? Like you want to go play? You

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want to go back to Brooklyn? Don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you could come up with a team, but like

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let's just say they were willing to even trade him

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or make like there just doesn't feel like, oh, like

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hard would be an excellent fit, Like this team needs

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the James Harden at age what thirty five.

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Speaker 3: At the at the price that it's probably gonna cost, Like,

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I do think. I do think there's a future and

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who knows if he'd do this where it's like he

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could be a six man on a really good team

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making fifteen million a year and twelve thunder Maybe basically

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if you just he'll go full circle and he'll just

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be that guy.

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Speaker 1: Hey, he'd be a really good six man on the

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current Thunder.

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Speaker 3: Right, you wouldn't have your shot creation problems anymore unless

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it was Game seven, I guess, but he so, yeah,

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I think the opt out, the opt out feels like

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I don't think, like is do you think he might.

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Speaker 2: Just pick it up and all be a free agent

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in twenty six?

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Speaker 1: No, I feel like he'll get like the one plus

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one again, It like just a be right, Yeah, So

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that would be the pivot point. And then I think,

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if you're losing, let's say they game it properly as

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they'll have the non tax, but because we know Steve

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Bomber will pay the tax, so I don't know, do

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they want to hardcap themselves at the first apron They

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did already, so yeah, I think they would do that.

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What is like the need you're focusing on with this team?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean they're not losing anybody really, Like I'm

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trying to think looking at their free agents, like Coffee's

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unrestrict did we mention him?

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Speaker 2: Patty Mills is under Ben Simmons, Like there's just like,

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I mean.

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Speaker 1: Did you see it? But I'm sorry, did you see

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who the betting favorite is right now to land Ben

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Ben Simmons? Oh?

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Speaker 2: My, First of all, there are odds on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, taking people's money for that is criminal. But also

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if you're gonna like that's also on you.

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Speaker 3: On Ben Simmons, I want to try to guess because

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I have no no earthly idea the Lakers.

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Speaker 1: It's the Boston Celtics, so you had the it was

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a flagship market.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's weird. What the okay, what would his purpose?

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Speaker 1: What especially watching the Celtics against the Knicks and like,

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what would be the what would Ben Simmons do for

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that team?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: Hm pass the ball? Uh whenever he got it? I

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guess I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what. So what are their needs?

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Speaker 3: I mean I guess you have to look at what

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just happened in the first round of the playoffs. If

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you're assessing needs, like because you can't just say they

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need Kawhi to be healthy, they need Harden to hold

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up another year?

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Speaker 2: What what?

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Speaker 3: What? What went wrong against Denver in a seven game

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series that either teams could have won.

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Speaker 1: I guess here's what I'm before we even get into

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their needs. The path forward to them is really my

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wife used this word the other day that she may

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have confuzzled where I'm like confused and anxious and just

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puzzled over it all. And can you bank You're not

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gonna get a better version of Kauhi than you did

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this year. Maybe he's slightly more available, James Harden not

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getting better. But at the same time, you don't have

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an incentive like you can't strip this down. You just

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you can't because even if even if you said, okay,

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let's do that, I don't know what value you get

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for any of the guy like Zubos probably has the

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most objective trade value, right and maybe Qui edges him

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out a little bit. Yeah, So I'm just how aggressive

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or is it just oh, we're gonna use the tax

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payermid level to improve and that's that or is it, oh,

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we might put first Hey on the table.

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Speaker 3: I think that is it the former, because you just

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like this season was great, like it was just beyond

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expectations for everybody, but you can't get caught up and like,

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let's mortgage more of the future and right like because

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we're going to get two or three more years out

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of this group. It's like it's a it's a week

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to week thing, right Like they they ran hot towards

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the end of the season. I don't that that's dismissive,

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Like they're they were, They're good. This is a really

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good team when everybody is in the spot they're supposed

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to be in and healthy. But it's like the calculus

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can't really change that much because like for most of

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this iteration of the Kawhi Clippers, it's been like if

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they're healthy, they're really good and dangerous and could beat

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almost anybody. And that's exactly what happened in the first

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round here. Had they gone on, like I don't know, you,

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you'd have the same, like shit, they could they could

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win this series against virtually anybody.

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Speaker 2: So you can't you can't let.

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Speaker 3: That, you know, shroud the fact that like this is

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still kind of like we're this whole thing is built

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on like a shaky foundation that could give at any time.

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So I don't think you can be putting picks on

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the table to improve the roster and then like other

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than a change of pay center that you wouldn't spend

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a ton on anyway, Like I'm not, I mean like

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this team has this team is actually Derek Jones can play,

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and like Wadanovich matters, and like Batoom, I think honestly

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you need to make sure Batom comes back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, I remember what we thought he was

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gonna retire. Maybe that was just like a threat to

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make sure.

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Speaker 2: They never retire. That guy just swings playoff series.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on the big and I although, yeah,

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I'm with you on the big, But I think the

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question they also need to ask is just like when

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you look at how some of these guys performed in

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the playoffs, it's like, okay, like Derek Jones Junior could play,

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but again him and Chris Dunn they prove to be

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like if he on the offensive end for you in

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the playoffs, And then you have to look at Norman

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Powell and Boke Dob macdonovich and say, even if you

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expect them to shoot better in the playoffs next year,

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is that the type of tertiary offense that you need

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or is there a possibility to upgrade from there. That's

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all in addition to I agree that you like to

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change of pace center, like you know who I this

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maybe would be like very change of pace. But there

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are like a couple bigs with mid level money I

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think would be in like who knows what's gonna happen

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with Brook Lopez and Milwaukee. You could work here, like give

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you some of the stretch or Steven Adams on this team,

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maybe they play him with Zubot at one point.

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Speaker 2: Who knows. There's proof of concept on that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, well, just the other consideration before you

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go on, like I think I think you're right about

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like the Joneses and Duns and Bogdanovic's of Like, Okay,

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we've seen some cracks in the.

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Speaker 2: Playoff viability, but I do think the Clippers.

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Speaker 3: Are a team that they need guys to eat minutes

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during the year because you must assume that Kawhi will

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miss time and or Harden will be inconsistent, Like so

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those level of players, like while they you do run

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into issues in the playoffs. I think like they matter

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a little more here than they might on a lot

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of other teams, just because like, Okay, Bogdanovic isn't perfect,

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but like, as long as he's healthy and he can

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give you like thirty minutes of starter caliber play like

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at a key in a key role. I think that's

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true for Jones done even done, like just the regular season,

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you're gonna need some guys to chew up some of

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that time.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. I've also kind of wondered, I'm

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with you that I wouldn't like those twenty thirty and

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twenty thirty, like those distant picks. I'm not touching those

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if I'm the Clippers. Then you look at like what

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would a trade offer look like if you attach Norman

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Powell's expiring salary to the twenty twenty five First that's

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going to be okayc so it's the number was the

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then number twenty nine pick. That's gonna end up being

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what does that get you? Like it's I don't even

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I don't even know if that's upgrading norm norm powell situation.

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Speaker 2: Well does that if.

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Speaker 3: You send him to Orlando and you get back like

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John Isaac or like something like that to just I

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don't know, like where.

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Speaker 1: A unique capture offense even.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's the thing I'm not trading Norman Powell probably

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for I mean, he's among all the guys we mentioned,

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like there's a guy, assuming he doesn't just turn into

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a pumpkin, but like there's a guy that's gonna be

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a get you twenty five any night you don't have

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Kawhi that that's that's gonna matter.

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Speaker 1: The way you framed it in terms of the regular

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season is like these guys, even if you would like

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someone who's not Norman Powell in the playoffs, you also

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need someone who's like going to be as good or

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better than Norman Power to get you through the regular season.

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Speaker 3: Right, which is like a fringe All Star which you're

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just like like I knew who you get.

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Speaker 1: With him too, is like yeah, he had some more

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like on ball stuff this year, but what makes him

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so appealing is, well, when Kawhi and James Harden are available,

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and if you want to put him next to floor space,

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like he doesn't need the ball and he can stretch

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the floor, so you need to factor in all of this.

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It's sort of. It's the Pelicans aren't a great analog,

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but it's like they were trying to build a team

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around Zion Williams and that both optimized him but could

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exist at a high level without him. And that's sort

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of what to a lesser degree, the Clippers need to do.

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And James Harden will be available, but he's also getting older.

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It's such a it's a challenging offseason. But I will say,

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because I was so wrong about their twenty twenty four offseason,

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this front office has more than earned the benefit of

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the doubt. And so if they go out again and

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you split up the mid level between two players, and

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that's like kind of the change they make. I'm I'm

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just gonna try. I'm not gonna pick them to win

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the title. But at this point, it's sort of just like,

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can you remain competitive and relevant while making these moves

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on the margins until other opportunities open up? And your

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point about the regular season, I think is super sailing

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it because I'm sure they will crop up as well.

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Speaker 2: Why don't they throw it all.

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Speaker 1: In If like they could get to Kevin Durant's money one,

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I guess you could get to that money but that's

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decimating your non Kawhi hardened rotation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, at that point.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't a team that when you look at

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they might be deep, but when you just look at

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the age at the top of that ross, that's not

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necessarily a luxury they have of thinking in those terms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think maybe the button to put

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on it is like it is challenging to have to

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balance regular season needs past, you know, president future stuff

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while dealing with this idea that like, yeah, our top

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two guy, our top three guys, like are really they're

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good enough to almost get us over the hump against anybody.

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Speaker 2: But we don't know, how about about one and a half.

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Speaker 3: Or two of those guys for any like two weeks

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retch of the year and then the playoffs is just

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a big like hopefully we time it right and they're good.

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These are all great challenges to have relative to the

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ones we thought the Clippers might be facing going into

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this offseason, because last year it was just like doom

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and gloom.

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Speaker 2: This is bleak.

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Speaker 3: This is a hopeless situation, and they you better believe

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they're happy to be trying to juggle all this stuff

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because like, oh, it actually affects like can they win

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fifty three games and get the second or third seed

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like that? That's that's miles away from where I thought

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this was headed not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: The final thing on them, I just wanted to throw

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a couple of if they were free agents, like with

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the mid level, if you have the full mid level,

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can this get you in a conversation, I think for

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most of them you would. I'll start with the one

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where I don't think it would. But if the Rockets

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decline his team option, like Fred Van Fleet, I would

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take that as a signal because there's not a ton

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of teams with cap space at the same time, it'd

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almost take as a signal A'll just be back in Houston.

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It'll be higher than fourteen million a year, but it'll

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be black than forty plus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you could get Van Vleet for the mid level,

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that's that's a no brainer.

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Speaker 2: Anybody would say yes to that.

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Speaker 1: What if they're like if you could say, what if

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they're ready to unbottle read Shepherd and so it's like

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it's a Fred van Fleet sign in trade. Are you

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like looking at the the pick plus Norman Powell to

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get Fred van Vleet, Would you do that?

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Speaker 3: Man? My first reaction was like, I don't know what

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I think about the Harden van Vleet backcourt, but like

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van Fleet can really guard.

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Speaker 2: So I think, and he has on and off ball value.

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I think is he better than Powell on this team?

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Speaker 3: Though? I guess probably probably, But that's not a that's

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not like a super easy decision for me.

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Speaker 2: Would would you do that?

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Speaker 1: I have no I I might. I'm gonna hear you right,

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the Harden van Fleet, but like you still Chris Dunn

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to kind of throw in there. And Fred Vanvleet's a

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better defender than Norman Powell right now. He's just getting

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older and he's smaller, so that would be something to consider.

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Speaker 3: And if Harden misses time, Bogdanovich and Van Vliet are

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gonna your offense will be fine. Like that's that's that's

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that's doable.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons you might not do that

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if the opportunity was available is do you like any

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of the names that are I think fall in more

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mid level territory, if not less. Malcolm Brogden, Sure, yeah,

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that's that's got to be way below the mid level though, right,

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I mean I I just you can't count on him

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holding up for that or the short term deal at

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the full mid level. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what about Dennis Shrewder, I think he's getting the

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mid level, don't you Like, I just just as a

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threshold issue. I think what he's done with the pistons

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is like, yeah, he's gonna be and that, like it's

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pretty close to what his number was coming off this year.

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I forget what he what he was making exactly twelve

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thirteen something like that.

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Speaker 1: What's tough with him though, is like his biggest value.

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He could do some stuff defensively, but it's he can

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give your other primary ball handlers, like in game breaks

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away from the ball. And I still feel like, even

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to this day, there's a cap on the value of

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doing that when Harden is your primary ball handling.

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Speaker 3: Option, right, yeah, because it just doesn't have any off

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ball value. Yeah, And like the him and Shrouder and Bogdanovic,

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I actually like less than like van Fleet and Bogdanovic

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hypothetically even though like, yeah, because s Shuder's pesky, but

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I think van Fleet's just a better defender.

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Speaker 1: About I'm assuming he would have to agree to come

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off the bench in the little Chris Paul reunion.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, well they let him start all eighty he

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can't start all eighty two games.

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Speaker 2: That's not gonna be on the table.

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Speaker 1: They could also look at one of the Joneses, Trey Jones,

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Tias Jones. I think Malcolm Brogden's the most interesting to me.

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This would be kind of a swing. But if you

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believe you have the defense to insulate him Danzel Russell, Yeah, yeah,

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I mean talking about you come off the bench right.

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You're not starting him next to Harden.

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Speaker 3: Him and done would be good him and Bogdanovic is

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not playable.

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Speaker 2: You did, you'd have to really do. I mean, but

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if you could get.

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Speaker 3: Him at mid level money, then you're not really that

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concerned about fit issues with other bench guys.

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Speaker 1: More those stories, I don't know. We kind of understand

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that the direction is tread water. Yeah, it feels like

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for them, can you improve on the margins. I'll still

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be interesting to see how they go about doing right.

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Speaker 2: All right, that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody for listening,

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for watching.

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Speaker 3: If you have not already, please your members of breaking

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for you and subscribe.

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Speaker 2: If you're watching this on YouTube. Gives a thumbs up,

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leave us a comment there, Join or discord links for

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that or in the YouTube podcast description, Tell your friends,

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Tell your enemy shouts. Franklintin apologies to Chair Down