Speaker 1: What's up, fellows, tecos, the post mortem train rolls on.
Slash off season look ahead train rolls on because we're
not just talking.
Speaker 2: About playoff teams.
Speaker 1: They're gonna go when to eat it every team and
kind of look at their offseason and let's get into it.
The Los Angeles Clippers, Grant, did you want to take
us through their vitals after? I honestly think that this
is one of the most confusing teams for me as
we get into post mortems following that seven game set
with Denver.
Speaker 3: I mean, better to be confusing than hopeless, which is
what we thought they were seven months ago or give
or take. So basically, the Clippers are fifteen point one
million under the tax or twenty three point one million
and twenty three point one million.
Speaker 2: Under the first apron.
Speaker 3: This assumes though Harden at thirty six point three and
Betoom at four point nine pick up their player options.
Speaker 2: We could talk about that all. This also assumes that.
Speaker 3: A Mere Coffee is a goner Andrew Ubanks is also gone.
They should be able to access the non taxpayer mid
level exception. At fourteen point one one million, they can
trade up to three first rounders after the draft they
have a twenty twenty five first via the thunder and
conditional first in twenty thirty and twenty thirty two.
Speaker 2: Should we start with.
Speaker 3: The hardened player option because that feels like a pretty
big pivot point to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think to me, I look at it
through the lens of is he just gonna exercise it?
Or is this we're penciling him in for the Clippers
with a new number, because I don't you don't see
a scenario in which he opts out and leaves.
Speaker 3: Right, No, I mean, I'm my best guess is he'll
opt out and look for a like two year eighty
million or ninety million or something something like that, one
plus one, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: And I think if you're the Clippers, you probably just
have to do it, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, although you can squeeze him a little bit
because like, like you're alluding to where are.
Speaker 2: You gonna go? Like you want to go play? You
want to go back to Brooklyn? Don't think so.
Speaker 1: Maybe you could come up with a team, but like
let's just say they were willing to even trade him
or make like there just doesn't feel like, oh, like
hard would be an excellent fit, Like this team needs
the James Harden at age what thirty five.
Speaker 3: At the at the price that it's probably gonna cost, Like,
I do think. I do think there's a future and
who knows if he'd do this where it's like he
could be a six man on a really good team
making fifteen million a year and twelve thunder Maybe basically
if you just he'll go full circle and he'll just
be that guy.
Speaker 1: Hey, he'd be a really good six man on the
current Thunder.
Speaker 3: Right, you wouldn't have your shot creation problems anymore unless
it was Game seven, I guess, but he so, yeah,
I think the opt out, the opt out feels like
I don't think, like is do you think he might.
Speaker 2: Just pick it up and all be a free agent
in twenty six?
Speaker 1: No, I feel like he'll get like the one plus
one again, It like just a be right, Yeah, So
that would be the pivot point. And then I think,
if you're losing, let's say they game it properly as
they'll have the non tax, but because we know Steve
Bomber will pay the tax, so I don't know, do
they want to hardcap themselves at the first apron They
did already, so yeah, I think they would do that.
What is like the need you're focusing on with this team?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean they're not losing anybody really, Like I'm
trying to think looking at their free agents, like Coffee's
unrestrict did we mention him?
Speaker 2: Patty Mills is under Ben Simmons, Like there's just like,
I mean.
Speaker 1: Did you see it? But I'm sorry, did you see
who the betting favorite is right now to land Ben
Ben Simmons? Oh?
Speaker 2: My, First of all, there are odds on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, taking people's money for that is criminal. But also
if you're gonna like that's also on you.
Speaker 3: On Ben Simmons, I want to try to guess because
I have no no earthly idea the Lakers.
Speaker 1: It's the Boston Celtics, so you had the it was
a flagship market.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's weird. What the okay, what would his purpose?
Speaker 1: What especially watching the Celtics against the Knicks and like,
what would be the what would Ben Simmons do for
that team?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Hm pass the ball? Uh whenever he got it? I
guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what. So what are their needs?
Speaker 3: I mean I guess you have to look at what
just happened in the first round of the playoffs. If
you're assessing needs, like because you can't just say they
need Kawhi to be healthy, they need Harden to hold
up another year?
Speaker 2: What what?
Speaker 3: What? What went wrong against Denver in a seven game
series that either teams could have won.
Speaker 1: I guess here's what I'm before we even get into
their needs. The path forward to them is really my
wife used this word the other day that she may
have confuzzled where I'm like confused and anxious and just
puzzled over it all. And can you bank You're not
gonna get a better version of Kauhi than you did
this year. Maybe he's slightly more available, James Harden not
getting better. But at the same time, you don't have
an incentive like you can't strip this down. You just
you can't because even if even if you said, okay,
let's do that, I don't know what value you get
for any of the guy like Zubos probably has the
most objective trade value, right and maybe Qui edges him
out a little bit. Yeah, So I'm just how aggressive
or is it just oh, we're gonna use the tax
payermid level to improve and that's that or is it, oh,
we might put first Hey on the table.
Speaker 3: I think that is it the former, because you just
like this season was great, like it was just beyond
expectations for everybody, but you can't get caught up and like,
let's mortgage more of the future and right like because
we're going to get two or three more years out
of this group. It's like it's a it's a week
to week thing, right Like they they ran hot towards
the end of the season. I don't that that's dismissive,
Like they're they were, They're good. This is a really
good team when everybody is in the spot they're supposed
to be in and healthy. But it's like the calculus
can't really change that much because like for most of
this iteration of the Kawhi Clippers, it's been like if
they're healthy, they're really good and dangerous and could beat
almost anybody. And that's exactly what happened in the first
round here. Had they gone on, like I don't know, you,
you'd have the same, like shit, they could they could
win this series against virtually anybody.
Speaker 2: So you can't you can't let.
Speaker 3: That, you know, shroud the fact that like this is
still kind of like we're this whole thing is built
on like a shaky foundation that could give at any time.
So I don't think you can be putting picks on
the table to improve the roster and then like other
than a change of pay center that you wouldn't spend
a ton on anyway, Like I'm not, I mean like
this team has this team is actually Derek Jones can play,
and like Wadanovich matters, and like Batoom, I think honestly
you need to make sure Batom comes back.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, I remember what we thought he was
gonna retire. Maybe that was just like a threat to
make sure.
Speaker 2: They never retire. That guy just swings playoff series.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on the big and I although, yeah,
I'm with you on the big, But I think the
question they also need to ask is just like when
you look at how some of these guys performed in
the playoffs, it's like, okay, like Derek Jones Junior could play,
but again him and Chris Dunn they prove to be
like if he on the offensive end for you in
the playoffs, And then you have to look at Norman
Powell and Boke Dob macdonovich and say, even if you
expect them to shoot better in the playoffs next year,
is that the type of tertiary offense that you need
or is there a possibility to upgrade from there. That's
all in addition to I agree that you like to
change of pace center, like you know who I this
maybe would be like very change of pace. But there
are like a couple bigs with mid level money I
think would be in like who knows what's gonna happen
with Brook Lopez and Milwaukee. You could work here, like give
you some of the stretch or Steven Adams on this team,
maybe they play him with Zubot at one point.
Speaker 2: Who knows. There's proof of concept on that.
Speaker 3: I feel like, well, just the other consideration before you
go on, like I think I think you're right about
like the Joneses and Duns and Bogdanovic's of Like, Okay,
we've seen some cracks in the.
Speaker 2: Playoff viability, but I do think the Clippers.
Speaker 3: Are a team that they need guys to eat minutes
during the year because you must assume that Kawhi will
miss time and or Harden will be inconsistent, Like so
those level of players, like while they you do run
into issues in the playoffs. I think like they matter
a little more here than they might on a lot
of other teams, just because like, Okay, Bogdanovic isn't perfect,
but like, as long as he's healthy and he can
give you like thirty minutes of starter caliber play like
at a key in a key role. I think that's
true for Jones done even done, like just the regular season,
you're gonna need some guys to chew up some of
that time.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. I've also kind of wondered, I'm
with you that I wouldn't like those twenty thirty and
twenty thirty, like those distant picks. I'm not touching those
if I'm the Clippers. Then you look at like what
would a trade offer look like if you attach Norman
Powell's expiring salary to the twenty twenty five First that's
going to be okayc so it's the number was the
then number twenty nine pick. That's gonna end up being
what does that get you? Like it's I don't even
I don't even know if that's upgrading norm norm powell situation.
Speaker 2: Well does that if.
Speaker 3: You send him to Orlando and you get back like
John Isaac or like something like that to just I
don't know, like where.
Speaker 1: A unique capture offense even.
Speaker 3: Right, that's the thing I'm not trading Norman Powell probably
for I mean, he's among all the guys we mentioned,
like there's a guy, assuming he doesn't just turn into
a pumpkin, but like there's a guy that's gonna be
a get you twenty five any night you don't have
Kawhi that that's that's gonna matter.
Speaker 1: The way you framed it in terms of the regular
season is like these guys, even if you would like
someone who's not Norman Powell in the playoffs, you also
need someone who's like going to be as good or
better than Norman Power to get you through the regular season.
Speaker 3: Right, which is like a fringe All Star which you're
just like like I knew who you get.
Speaker 1: With him too, is like yeah, he had some more
like on ball stuff this year, but what makes him
so appealing is, well, when Kawhi and James Harden are available,
and if you want to put him next to floor space,
like he doesn't need the ball and he can stretch
the floor, so you need to factor in all of this.
It's sort of. It's the Pelicans aren't a great analog,
but it's like they were trying to build a team
around Zion Williams and that both optimized him but could
exist at a high level without him. And that's sort
of what to a lesser degree, the Clippers need to do.
And James Harden will be available, but he's also getting older.
It's such a it's a challenging offseason. But I will say,
because I was so wrong about their twenty twenty four offseason,
this front office has more than earned the benefit of
the doubt. And so if they go out again and
you split up the mid level between two players, and
that's like kind of the change they make. I'm I'm
just gonna try. I'm not gonna pick them to win
the title. But at this point, it's sort of just like,
can you remain competitive and relevant while making these moves
on the margins until other opportunities open up? And your
point about the regular season, I think is super sailing
it because I'm sure they will crop up as well.
Speaker 2: Why don't they throw it all.
Speaker 1: In If like they could get to Kevin Durant's money one,
I guess you could get to that money but that's
decimating your non Kawhi hardened rotation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at that point.
Speaker 1: And this isn't a team that when you look at
they might be deep, but when you just look at
the age at the top of that ross, that's not
necessarily a luxury they have of thinking in those terms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think maybe the button to put
on it is like it is challenging to have to
balance regular season needs past, you know, president future stuff
while dealing with this idea that like, yeah, our top
two guy, our top three guys, like are really they're
good enough to almost get us over the hump against anybody.
Speaker 2: But we don't know, how about about one and a half.
Speaker 3: Or two of those guys for any like two weeks
retch of the year and then the playoffs is just
a big like hopefully we time it right and they're good.
These are all great challenges to have relative to the
ones we thought the Clippers might be facing going into
this offseason, because last year it was just like doom
and gloom.
Speaker 2: This is bleak.
Speaker 3: This is a hopeless situation, and they you better believe
they're happy to be trying to juggle all this stuff
because like, oh, it actually affects like can they win
fifty three games and get the second or third seed
like that? That's that's miles away from where I thought
this was headed not that long ago.
Speaker 1: The final thing on them, I just wanted to throw
a couple of if they were free agents, like with
the mid level, if you have the full mid level,
can this get you in a conversation, I think for
most of them you would. I'll start with the one
where I don't think it would. But if the Rockets
decline his team option, like Fred Van Fleet, I would
take that as a signal because there's not a ton
of teams with cap space at the same time, it'd
almost take as a signal A'll just be back in Houston.
It'll be higher than fourteen million a year, but it'll
be black than forty plus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you could get Van Vleet for the mid level,
that's that's a no brainer.
Speaker 2: Anybody would say yes to that.
Speaker 1: What if they're like if you could say, what if
they're ready to unbottle read Shepherd and so it's like
it's a Fred van Fleet sign in trade. Are you
like looking at the the pick plus Norman Powell to
get Fred van Vleet, Would you do that?
Speaker 3: Man? My first reaction was like, I don't know what
I think about the Harden van Vleet backcourt, but like
van Fleet can really guard.
Speaker 2: So I think, and he has on and off ball value.
I think is he better than Powell on this team?
Speaker 3: Though? I guess probably probably, But that's not a that's
not like a super easy decision for me.
Speaker 2: Would would you do that?
Speaker 1: I have no I I might. I'm gonna hear you right,
the Harden van Fleet, but like you still Chris Dunn
to kind of throw in there. And Fred Vanvleet's a
better defender than Norman Powell right now. He's just getting
older and he's smaller, so that would be something to consider.
Speaker 3: And if Harden misses time, Bogdanovich and Van Vliet are
gonna your offense will be fine. Like that's that's that's
that's doable.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons you might not do that
if the opportunity was available is do you like any
of the names that are I think fall in more
mid level territory, if not less. Malcolm Brogden, Sure, yeah,
that's that's got to be way below the mid level though, right,
I mean I I just you can't count on him
holding up for that or the short term deal at
the full mid level. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about Dennis Shrewder, I think he's getting the
mid level, don't you Like, I just just as a
threshold issue. I think what he's done with the pistons
is like, yeah, he's gonna be and that, like it's
pretty close to what his number was coming off this year.
I forget what he what he was making exactly twelve
thirteen something like that.
Speaker 1: What's tough with him though, is like his biggest value.
He could do some stuff defensively, but it's he can
give your other primary ball handlers, like in game breaks
away from the ball. And I still feel like, even
to this day, there's a cap on the value of
doing that when Harden is your primary ball handling.
Speaker 3: Option, right, yeah, because it just doesn't have any off
ball value. Yeah, And like the him and Shrouder and Bogdanovic,
I actually like less than like van Fleet and Bogdanovic
hypothetically even though like, yeah, because s Shuder's pesky, but
I think van Fleet's just a better defender.
Speaker 1: About I'm assuming he would have to agree to come
off the bench in the little Chris Paul reunion.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, well they let him start all eighty he
can't start all eighty two games.
Speaker 2: That's not gonna be on the table.
Speaker 1: They could also look at one of the Joneses, Trey Jones,
Tias Jones. I think Malcolm Brogden's the most interesting to me.
This would be kind of a swing. But if you
believe you have the defense to insulate him Danzel Russell, Yeah, yeah,
I mean talking about you come off the bench right.
You're not starting him next to Harden.
Speaker 3: Him and done would be good him and Bogdanovic is
not playable.
Speaker 2: You did, you'd have to really do. I mean, but
if you could get.
Speaker 3: Him at mid level money, then you're not really that
concerned about fit issues with other bench guys.
Speaker 1: More those stories, I don't know. We kind of understand
that the direction is tread water. Yeah, it feels like
for them, can you improve on the margins. I'll still
be interesting to see how they go about doing right.
Speaker 2: All right, that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody for listening,
for watching.
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Tell your enemy shouts. Franklintin apologies to Chair Down