Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Nicole and it's Ben and you are
Speaker 1: listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast morning.
Speaker 1: The following podcast contains granting content and material intend more
Speaker 1: your audience listener discretion.
Speaker 2: I controlled myself.
Speaker 1: You controlled yourself, how so?
Speaker 2: Because I wasn't all a true podcast crime. I just
Speaker 2: said it like a normal person.
Speaker 1: Anytime you do that reminds me of like a car
Speaker 1: going by the true Okay, so.
Speaker 2: There you go, well done, Welcome to Wicked and Grim
Speaker 2: in Happy New Year? Okay? Is this our Happy New
Speaker 2: Year one? The first of the new year? Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only January third? Right now? Is we're recording?
Speaker 1: Oh shit, yeah, it's twenty twenty two right now?
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, shoot, I could have started.
Speaker 1: With a Happy New Year, but she didn't.
Speaker 2: But I didn't. I missed it. I dropped the ball.
Speaker 1: We could redo and I could just down this beer
Speaker 1: and open another one.
Speaker 2: Sure, let's do it?
Speaker 1: Should we? No forest alcoholism? Why not?
Speaker 2: Look at you? I'm drinking flavored water.
Speaker 1: That's slightly disappointing. I know what that's like. Asponsible is
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's responsible.
Speaker 2: I need to drink more water.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough. I'm sure a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Mica is lapping up water over here. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys can hear it, clearly heard new Year's
Speaker 1: resolution is to drink more water too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's very loud.
Speaker 1: She is extremely loud. When she drinks, she makes a
Speaker 1: giant mess water all over the floor. Yeah. So that's
Speaker 1: what it's like living in a tiny home with Mika
Speaker 1: creating puddles in our house that we step in.
Speaker 2: And she's never quiet, never, never, never.
Speaker 1: So do you have a New Year's resolution? We haven't
Speaker 1: talked about New Year's resolutions.
Speaker 2: Yet in our house.
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, you and I have not talked New
Speaker 1: Year's resolution. Do we have New Year's resolutions going? Well?
Speaker 2: I kind of posted some actually, and what were they,
Speaker 2: even though I should probably know them?
Speaker 1: No kidding, if their your own New Year's resolution.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't really do New Year's resolutions per se.
Speaker 1: I don't really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost at any time in the year, you should
Speaker 2: be trying to improve or and stuff like. I don't
Speaker 2: think it just has to be done at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the year.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I was like, oh, well, I didn't
Speaker 1: do it in January, so I'll just wait till next fucking.
Speaker 2: Year, like restart whenever you want, right exactly. It's kind
Speaker 2: of my thought, but I definitely want to be I
Speaker 2: had to somebody will putting myself a bit more first,
Speaker 2: because I overbooked myself.
Speaker 1: Immensely for your business.
Speaker 2: Photography, like.
Speaker 1: It really is it really fucking is.
Speaker 2: So to basically like schedule downtime a little bit more
Speaker 2: for for wah.
Speaker 1: That's a good call. Good call. Mine is to hopefully
Speaker 1: nurse my arm back to health so I can go
Speaker 1: to the gym, right because for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: I I have like ten and night it's like tennis
Speaker 1: elbow like crazy in my arm. So I'm really hoping
Speaker 1: to nurse that so I can go back to the.
Speaker 2: Gym lift some weights.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: If we can't even go back to the gym until.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah COVID because.
Speaker 2: They're closed because of COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, life. Well, instead of going to the gym, how
Speaker 1: about setting sail on the high seven seas today?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, because that's what we're doing in today's podcast.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: So coming up, I've got some pretty gruesome stories coming
Speaker 1: down the ye. So I thought you know what, I
Speaker 1: better mix in some not so gruesome.
Speaker 2: Ones, right, We've been talking about that actually, so.
Speaker 1: This is definitely a not so gruesome one. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is an unsolved this is a mystery. This may very
Speaker 1: well not even be a crime, but it could be.
Speaker 1: Who knows.
Speaker 2: It's intriguing.
Speaker 1: So let's set the scene, shall we.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay. I just got to say that was really fucking
Speaker 1: smooth with my hood as I that we have.
Speaker 2: Only people can see what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Right, I got it, my hoodie on. I just like,
Speaker 1: as I said, set the scene. I just flipped my
Speaker 1: hood out. I'm perfectly landed over top of my headphones.
Speaker 1: Everything like business time.
Speaker 2: Basically, it's business. It's business time, motherfucker.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the seven season business time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so here we go. Imagine setting sail on that
Speaker 1: open sea. Not today, though, go back in time a bit.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go to the eighteen hundreds, talking wooden ship,
Speaker 1: you know, with the Grand Masses, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone's exploring the world, hauling cargo to places where the
Speaker 1: residents have never seen such good from other nations. The
Speaker 1: waves crash against the wooden hull of your ship as
Speaker 1: you work long days in the in the sun, being
Speaker 1: misted by the cool ocean water. Slowly the sun begins
Speaker 1: to set on that horizon with nothing but water surrounding you,
Speaker 1: or so you thought, until you spot something off in
Speaker 1: the distance, another ship. Something isn't right, though it's not
Speaker 1: just another ship per se. The ship is moving erratically
Speaker 1: and in a very odd path. Your ship gets closer,
Speaker 1: and soon you're able to see that the sails aren't set,
Speaker 1: and that there are ropes dangling from the masses in
Speaker 1: a way that you know it just shouldn't be. Finally,
Speaker 1: you notice that you don't see anyone manning the ship.
Speaker 1: Not a single person is on deck. No one's manning
Speaker 1: the sale or even at the wheel. The ship is
Speaker 1: drifting on its own. You and some of your crew
Speaker 1: board the vessel to investigate, and you don't find a
Speaker 1: single person left on board. The ship has lost its
Speaker 1: crew somewhere, and somehow you thought you know. The thought
Speaker 1: crosses your mind that as you scan the horizons for survivors,
Speaker 1: is your ship destined to be abandoned as you're swallowed
Speaker 1: by the sea, or is there someone or something out
Speaker 1: there watching and waiting for their moment to do the
Speaker 1: same to you on your ship.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So this is the story of the ghost ship known
Speaker 1: as the Mary Celeste.
Speaker 2: See I've never heard of this.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Is it well known?
Speaker 1: You say in the ship commute Unity. It is definitely
Speaker 1: a large tale, let's put it that way.
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, I think I've announced it on here that
Speaker 2: I kind of will avoid ships.
Speaker 1: Why do you avoid ships?
Speaker 2: Well, I would never go, like on a cruise ship.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this ship would could happen.
Speaker 1: The ocean is scariest.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll swim in the woa. Yeah, I swim and
Speaker 2: there I think.
Speaker 1: Ish. Well, okay, I'm going to do a really quick
Speaker 1: Google search here because this is something I actually should
Speaker 1: have looked up, but I didn't.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: What percentage of the ocean is unexplored?
Speaker 2: It's very high, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's ridiculous, ridiculously.
Speaker 2: High, because that's so scary, like there's things living in
Speaker 2: there that we don't even know what they are.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're discovering new species like on the daily.
Speaker 1: More than eighty percent of the oceans remain unexplored.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, yeah, no, I do like oceans. I love
Speaker 2: being by the ocean, but it does like terrify the ship.
Speaker 1: I love being the ocean, I sure as hell don't
Speaker 1: love being in the ocean.
Speaker 2: Remember, like when we've gone away, we've gone snorkeling and stuff,
Speaker 2: and we were okay with it. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're protected by like coral reefs and shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're taking you to good areas and stuff.
Speaker 1: At least we think. Dun, dun, dude. Yeah, okay, but yeah,
Speaker 1: snorkeling in like fifteen twenty feet of water is a
Speaker 1: little bit different than being like two hundred plus feet
Speaker 1: of water.
Speaker 2: Could still happen. Oh fuck yeah, bud, And fifteen twenty
Speaker 2: feet Remember that.
Speaker 1: One fish that scared the shit out of me and
Speaker 1: Jamaica was following you, It was fucking following me. It
Speaker 1: was okay, this little fucking fish it was I'm going
Speaker 1: off on the story here. I'm sorry. This fish was
Speaker 1: maybe two and a half feet long. It was super skinny,
Speaker 1: it was it probably weighed I don't know, three pounds
Speaker 1: at best.
Speaker 2: Like it was small.
Speaker 1: It was small, and it was kind of like it
Speaker 1: was like a barracouted looking motherfucker. But it was not
Speaker 1: a barracuda, but it looked like a barracuda. But it
Speaker 1: was not a barracuda. Okay, and I think it had
Speaker 1: if I recall correctly, I had five black dots down
Speaker 1: its body. But this fucking thing was following me as
Speaker 1: I was snarkling, and it was giving me the fucking stanky.
Speaker 1: It was like, what the fuck you do?
Speaker 2: Curious?
Speaker 1: Either that or it wanted to kick my ass one
Speaker 1: or the other. And I'm pretty sure this three pound
Speaker 1: fish could have kicked me. Probably it was. I was.
Speaker 1: It was mean mugging me, and it was doing that
Speaker 1: for like a good ten to fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: At one point I'm like, you know what, fuck this,
Speaker 1: I'm out. So that shows how I am in the ocean.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I think we're the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh. Okay. Anyways, So the first board
Speaker 1: the Future Mary Celeste, or sorry, here we go. The
Speaker 1: first board of the Future Mary Celeste, was laid in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty at the shipyard of Joshua DUIs in the
Speaker 1: village of Spencer's Island on the shore of the Bay
Speaker 1: of Fundy in Nova Scotia, Canada.
Speaker 2: I was like, I know that place.
Speaker 1: You do, never been there, but we know it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just rang a bell.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah. The ship was constructed of
Speaker 1: locally felled timber, classic for Canadian We have a lot
Speaker 1: of very huge forest industry here and was what you'd
Speaker 1: call a bricotine and that's known as a ship with
Speaker 1: two masts. So the masks are the straight up parts
Speaker 1: that hold the sales, right righte. She was And I
Speaker 1: say she because it was a tradition and is to
Speaker 1: consider ship's female, referring to them as she. Although it
Speaker 1: may sound strange like referring to them as an odd
Speaker 1: referring to an inanimate object as a she, Sorry, it
Speaker 1: relates to like the idea of a female figure, such
Speaker 1: as like a mother or a goddess guiding and protecting
Speaker 1: the ship and cruse sort of thing. Okay, so it was.
Speaker 1: It was like a term of endearment, a praise if
Speaker 1: anything sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But I think we do that with a few things. Really,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem super abnormal to me.
Speaker 1: Oh well we do, and that's where it derives from.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So she was Carville built, which means the
Speaker 1: hull planks were laid edge to edg edge to edge
Speaker 1: and fastened to the frame rather than overlapping like shingles
Speaker 1: on a house. So just like you would lay down
Speaker 1: like floor planks in your house, edge to edge, that's
Speaker 1: kind of how the outside of the hull was laid. Okay,
Speaker 1: It's kind of like forming a smooth, smooth surface, right.
Speaker 1: Her construction was completed and she was officially launched on
Speaker 1: May eighteenth, eighteen sixty one, given the name Amazon, and
Speaker 1: registered at a nearby pasborrow on June tenth, eighteen eighty
Speaker 1: or eighteen sixty one. So she was not known as
Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste just yet. She was known as the Amazon.
Speaker 2: So it only it took them on like a year
Speaker 2: to build.
Speaker 1: That, you know, I didn't compare the years. Yeah, about
Speaker 1: a year, okay.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: So the Amazon was nineteen point three feet long nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine. I am going through airs.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's not very long.
Speaker 1: Point three feet long, my apologies, twenty five point feet wide,
Speaker 1: with a depth of eleven point seven feet and weighs
Speaker 1: in at almost two hundred grossed tonnage.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah. She was owned by a local concertorium of
Speaker 1: nine people, and among the co owners was Robert McLean McLellan.
Speaker 1: Sorry McClellan, the ship's first ever captain, but certainly not
Speaker 1: her last. H for her maiden voyage in June. On
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, the Amazon sets sail to the Five Islands,
Speaker 1: which is a rural community in Nova Scotia, Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1: I am stumbling today. I am so sorry, beers k.
Speaker 1: I have drank four SIPs of this one. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: the problem I need to drink.
Speaker 2: You can't blame it on that, right, And.
Speaker 1: This community has like approximate population of about three hundred.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's current or back then. I
Speaker 1: would assume it's current. I didn't do my research on that.
Speaker 1: It's not too important to take the cargo of the
Speaker 1: timber of timber for a passage across the Atlantic Ocean
Speaker 1: to London. That's quite a journey, definitely is right across
Speaker 1: the Atlantic now. After supervising the ships loading, Captain McClellan
Speaker 1: began to fall ill. He is reported to have had
Speaker 1: a bad fever, shortness of breath, and coughing a lot.
Speaker 1: Some of the crew even to have reported seeing bits
Speaker 1: of blood and mucus in the captain's handkerchief as he
Speaker 1: barked orders to the crew between coughing fits. Oh no, yeah,
Speaker 1: his condition didn't get any better.
Speaker 2: In fact, it got worse, So he doesn't even get
Speaker 2: to really be like legit captain.
Speaker 1: No. I mean technically he saw it's made and voyage begin.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I mean, like I think that your the
Speaker 2: voyage would be like them aotan.
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. All he managed to do was go
Speaker 1: from Nova Scotia to Nova Scotia basically because he set
Speaker 1: sail out to get the timber, and then after that
Speaker 1: they return home in Spa Island rather than going ahead
Speaker 1: with its delivery, and there once a return home. Captain
Speaker 1: McClellan died.
Speaker 2: On June nineteenth Boo, Yeah, that sucks.
Speaker 1: This, however, is where the story really starts. This marked
Speaker 1: the beginning of the bad luck that would fall upon
Speaker 1: the ship, and for some the moment when Captain McClellan's
Speaker 1: spirit imbued itself into the ship and cursing it forever.
Speaker 2: Oh so they think that he came back.
Speaker 1: To haunt it. Some say there's no reports of a
Speaker 1: haunting per se, but some said, yeah, like the ship
Speaker 1: was cursed. Kind of huh.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Now, a man by the name of John Nutting Parker
Speaker 1: took over as Captain Nutting.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was like, how did you just say that?
Speaker 1: I almost I tried to keep going, but then yeah,
Speaker 1: I had I had to.
Speaker 2: You couldn't.
Speaker 1: No, I couldn't. I just couldn't. So a man by
Speaker 1: the name of John Nutting Parker took over his captain
Speaker 1: soon after and resumed the voyage to London, in the
Speaker 1: course of which the Amazon encountered further misadventures. She collided
Speaker 1: with fishing equipment and the narrows of Eastport, Maine, and
Speaker 1: after leaving London, ran into and sank a brig in
Speaker 1: the English Channel, literally colliding with another ship.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, this is the new captain. Yes, so that
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like a good resume.
Speaker 1: Three major mishaps on his maiden voyage. Yeah, definitely not
Speaker 1: a good resume. Like Captain No No Geigers Now. Captain
Speaker 1: Parker remained in command for two years, during which the
Speaker 1: Amazon worked mainly in the West Indies trade. In nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty three, Captain Parker was succeeded by Captain William Thompson,
Speaker 1: who remained in command until eighteen sixty seven. These were
Speaker 1: quiet years, apparently not a thing unusual happened in October
Speaker 1: of eighteen sixty seven at Cape Breton Island. The Amazon, However,
Speaker 1: he was driven ashore in a storm, and it was
Speaker 1: so badly damaged that her owners simply abandoned her as
Speaker 1: a wreck. Seriously, Yeah, just now, fuck that, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: out exactly. Oh my gosh, that was fucking weird. My
Speaker 1: phone just started listening to us. What do you mean
Speaker 1: it like talking to Google? It just started listening to it.
Speaker 1: It just started like showing the words we were talking.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: That's fucking that. Thanks Google for listening to us. That's great.
Speaker 2: Well, the literally everything I know.
Speaker 1: It's it's just creepy when it doesn't care to hide it,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, yeah, I'm listening to you. What
Speaker 1: are you gonna fucking do about it? Anyways, So she
Speaker 1: didn't stay a wrec for long though, however. On October fifteenth,
Speaker 1: she was acquired as a derelict, which essentially is a
Speaker 1: legally illegal abandoned purchase.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they still have to purchase it though, Hey, yes,
Speaker 2: why who are they giving the money to?
Speaker 1: Well, think of it as like the bank sort of thing, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, Like it's a foreclosure.
Speaker 1: Almost yeah, some kind of like that. I didn't go
Speaker 1: into two. It looked like it was a complicated thing
Speaker 1: to look into. I'm like, fuck that, it's minor details,
Speaker 1: that is yea. So someone by the name of Alexander McBean, McBean, McBean,
Speaker 1: look at these names.
Speaker 2: We love it.
Speaker 1: He purchased it legally. Now, within a month, Alexander had
Speaker 1: turned around and sold the wreck for a profit to
Speaker 1: a local businessman, who in November of eighteen sixty eight
Speaker 1: sold it again to Richard W. Haynes, an American mariner
Speaker 1: from New York. Now. Haynes paid a total of one thousand,
Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty dollars for the wreck, which is
Speaker 1: equivalent approximately to fifty one thousand, seven hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: four dollars US dollars. Sorry, all this is US dollars today.
Speaker 1: And then he spent eight hundred and twenty five dollars
Speaker 1: restoring it, which is equivalent to two one hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty thousand, nine hundred and forty five US dollars. So
Speaker 1: essentially he spent three hundred thousand dollars on this ship.
Speaker 2: Okay, because I felt like at first like he got
Speaker 2: it for a pretty good price. I mean, yes, I
Speaker 2: guess if it was completely trash, I.
Speaker 1: Mean it is a wreck, so that's true. So he
Speaker 1: made himself captain and in December of eighteen sixty eight
Speaker 1: registered her with the Collector of Customs in New York
Speaker 1: as an American vessel under the new name Mary Celeste.
Speaker 1: So here we are with the Mary Celeste that we
Speaker 1: know the ship. Then, Oh well, I totally just accidentally
Speaker 1: changed fonts. Sorry, I don't know how I did that.
Speaker 1: That was magic. Shit's weird today, guys. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: You're not having any luck over They.
Speaker 1: Fucking curse of this ship. It's it's coming through this podcast.
Speaker 2: She brought this into our home.
Speaker 1: I think I might have.
Speaker 2: Oh I hate that.
Speaker 1: This is fucking this is creepy shit. It's like this
Speaker 1: should have been a Halloween episode right here, our souls lessing.
Speaker 1: My computer's doing fucking magic.
Speaker 2: Nothing else better happened or I'm out?
Speaker 1: Really that easy? Sorry? Oh my gosh, Oh no, the
Speaker 1: font's changing again. Peace. Okay, welcome to vick Ingram, where
Speaker 1: we talk about stupid ship. Anyways. The ship then went
Speaker 1: again through new ownership as the tails of its mishaps
Speaker 1: and rumors of the curse followed it around. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: for many it wasn't anything more than a tail. However,
Speaker 1: it went under a bit more of an upgrade with
Speaker 1: its new purchaser. They enlarged her considerably. Her length is
Speaker 1: increased to one hundred and three feet, her width was
Speaker 1: twenty five point seven feet, and her depth was sixteen
Speaker 1: point two feet, and a second deck was also added.
Speaker 2: That almost just seems like building an entirely new ship.
Speaker 1: I know, I don't understand how to just make a
Speaker 1: ship longer, wider, and deeper.
Speaker 2: I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1: Makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2: But I mean, sure, okay, yeah, that doesn't make because
Speaker 2: it's not like it's a house that you just like
Speaker 2: add on to. Really, yeah, I just add on to
Speaker 2: a boat like that, because it has to have like
Speaker 2: certain curves and stuff, right, I think.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have no fucking clue. I am not a shipbuilder
Speaker 1: by trade, nor am I a on tour. What do
Speaker 1: you have?
Speaker 2: Every other hobby under the sun?
Speaker 1: I like doing stuff.
Speaker 2: Maybe you should add this one to it.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should welcome to Awaken a Graam where we
Speaker 1: talk about true grand podcasts and build.
Speaker 2: Ships today and next summern build a ship.
Speaker 1: Okay, we need to get back on track here. We
Speaker 1: we're off topic today a lot. On October twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy two, the ship's new owner was that of
Speaker 1: James H. Winchester and her new captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs.
Speaker 1: That name, I gotta say, I might be biasedle bit
Speaker 1: because his name is Benjamin and I'm a ben But
Speaker 1: Benjamin Spooner Briggs, that is a dope fucking name.
Speaker 2: What's his last name? Sorry?
Speaker 1: Briggs?
Speaker 2: Briggs? Strong?
Speaker 1: Right? So. Briggs was born in Warream, Massachusetts, on April
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, eighteen thirty five, one of five sons of
Speaker 1: sea captain Nathan Briggs. All but one of the sons
Speaker 1: went to sea, two becoming captains. His son Arthur was
Speaker 1: born on September eighteen sixty five, and daughter Sophia Matilda
Speaker 1: on October of eighteen seventy. Now, by the time of
Speaker 1: Sophia's birth, Briggs had achieved a high standing within his profession. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: he considered retiring from retiring from the sea to go
Speaker 1: on to business with his seafaring brother Oliver, who had
Speaker 1: also grown tired of the wandering life. They did not
Speaker 1: proceed with this project, though, but instead each invested in
Speaker 1: their savings in a share of a ship, Oliver in
Speaker 1: Julia A. Halleck and Benjamin investing in a share of
Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste, so he was technically part owner of
Speaker 1: the ship. You're following, I definitely am following. You're just
Speaker 1: like yawning and nodding.
Speaker 2: No, it's just because it's late.
Speaker 1: It is late.
Speaker 2: That's also wicked Ingram's style.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, last minute.
Speaker 2: But that we at least we're always geting. We get
Speaker 2: them out right. That's mostly we didn't.
Speaker 1: We do now. On October eighteen seventy two, Benjamin Benjamin
Speaker 1: Briggs all right, I love that name, took command of
Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste for her first voyage to Genova in Italy,
Speaker 1: following her extensive New York refit. Joining him on the
Speaker 1: journey was his wife and infant daughter, while his school
Speaker 1: age son was left at home with his grandmother. Now
Speaker 1: Captain Briggs chose the crew for his voyage with care,
Speaker 1: and it included his first mate, Albert G. Richardson, who
Speaker 1: is married to a niece of the Winchester, who owned
Speaker 1: the vessel and had sailed under Briggs before. With no
Speaker 1: other preparations needed. The ship began its fateful voyage on
Speaker 1: November seventh, eighteen seventy two, sailing with a crew of
Speaker 1: ten individuals, including Captain Benjamin and his family.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so that's ten people's including the wife and
Speaker 2: one kid.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's Captain Benjamin Briggs, his wife and daughter, and
Speaker 1: then seven crew members.
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the ship battled heavy weather on its journey, and
Speaker 1: it carried seventeen hundred I think it's technically seventeen hundred
Speaker 1: and one, but seventeen hundred barrels of crude industrial alcohol
Speaker 1: as its shipment. It was December fifth, eighteen seventy two, however,
Speaker 1: that the ship was spotted on the open Sea, about
Speaker 1: four hundred miles east of Azora's Island in the middle
Speaker 1: of the Atlantic Ocean by another ship by the British
Speaker 1: brig del Gratti.
Speaker 2: Okay, so sorry, I need to get this straight on.
Speaker 1: Which day they left on November.
Speaker 2: Seventh, and then they were found floating. The ship was
Speaker 2: found floating on December fifth. Yes, okay, I don't know why,
Speaker 2: but I just needed to get that straight in mind.
Speaker 1: You got it about a month, about a month.
Speaker 2: A month, Okay, hold on, I have to also to
Speaker 2: say that'd be like so eerie, like to be in
Speaker 2: the middle of the freaking ocean and then you're coming
Speaker 2: across this boat that just like doesn't look right and
Speaker 2: stuff like most like nightmare material.
Speaker 1: That's fucking nightmare material for sure. Yeah, especially once we
Speaker 1: get into theories here, you'll really start like couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1: But we got to get through the story first before
Speaker 1: we get to those theories. The juicyness. So, when crew
Speaker 1: members spotted the ship adrift in an aimless course with
Speaker 1: the choppy sea, Captain David Moorehouse, who was the captain
Speaker 1: of the British brig the De Gratti, was taken aback
Speaker 1: to discover the unguided vessel was the Mary Celeste, which
Speaker 1: had left New York eight days before him and should
Speaker 1: have already arrived in Genova, Italy. He quickly changed course
Speaker 1: to head over to see if it needed eight nice guy.
Speaker 1: Upon approach, they found the erratic motion of the boat
Speaker 1: was because there was no one manning it. There was
Speaker 1: no one at the sails or the masts, no one
Speaker 1: at the wheel or even on deck. The sails were
Speaker 1: hung as if the crew simply stopped mid job and
Speaker 1: never finished, so they were partially hung. There's also reports
Speaker 1: of there being some damage to the sails and the mass,
Speaker 1: though how extensive it was I couldn't find.
Speaker 2: But that could just have been from the floating there.
Speaker 1: For exact And there was definitely rough seas around this
Speaker 1: time too, so it could have been unmanned sails and
Speaker 1: stuff not being tied down, flapping in the wind, ship
Speaker 1: breaking right totally. So the reports that I could find,
Speaker 1: though minimum didn't think it wasn't extensive damage, kind of
Speaker 1: superficial stuff like a little bit of shit broken here
Speaker 1: and there, Okay, because.
Speaker 2: They probably don't don't know how long it was really floating.
Speaker 2: Oh they demand, Oh they do, Okay, they.
Speaker 1: Do because all ships have a log, captain's log.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, we'll get into that. Though. Captain Morehouse sent
Speaker 1: aboard a party to the ship below deck, the ship's
Speaker 1: charts had been tossed about and some navigation equipment was missing.
Speaker 1: The crewmen's belongings were still in their quarters, though the
Speaker 1: ship's only lifeboat was also missing, and a frayed rope
Speaker 1: dangled in the water behind the ship and one of
Speaker 1: its two pumps in the hull of the boat had
Speaker 1: been disassembled, so the pumps to like pump out water
Speaker 1: that ship's taking board, because it's very normal, you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of leak here and there, rain splashing
Speaker 1: over that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sorry, that was gone.
Speaker 1: One of the two pumps had been disassembled.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and three and a half feet water was slashing
Speaker 1: about in the bottom of the ship.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: On top of all this, though the cargo of seventeen
Speaker 1: hundred barrels of alcohol was largely intact. There were six
Speaker 1: months supply of food and water, but not a single
Speaker 1: soul to consume it. Its log book shows nothing noted
Speaker 1: of any disturbances or anything was out of line. Its
Speaker 1: last entry was also eleven days before being found.
Speaker 2: Oh geez, that's a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That basically means that it had either been drifting
Speaker 1: alone for those eleven days, or whatever happened had eleven
Speaker 1: days to take place.
Speaker 2: Kay. And I also have to say too that it's
Speaker 2: oh whoa, my train of thought got distracted there.
Speaker 1: You good.
Speaker 2: I also feel like it's almost amazing that it got
Speaker 2: found or that someone crossed its path, because if it
Speaker 2: had been just like, I don't know, go and drift
Speaker 2: for like eleven days or however long or whatever. It
Speaker 2: could never have been found, really.
Speaker 1: That's true. It would eventually have run a s and
Speaker 1: would have eventually have been found, or it would have
Speaker 1: eventually been capsized and never found exactly. Yeah. So it
Speaker 1: is actually surprising, and it's very surprising that someone found
Speaker 1: it on the open ocean like that. Yeah, so the
Speaker 1: odds are slim, pretty slim. Now where am I at? Okay?
Speaker 1: The de Gratti crewman split up with some of the
Speaker 1: crew on its own ship, and some went over to
Speaker 1: the Mary Celest and sailed the ship some eight hundred
Speaker 1: miers two miles to Gibraltar, where a British Vice Admiral
Speaker 1: court convenced. That's a sentence and a half where a
Speaker 1: British Vice admiral court convened a salvage hearing. There we go,
Speaker 1: which is usually limited to determining whether the salvagers in
Speaker 1: this case that a Gratti crewmen were entitled to payment
Speaker 1: from the ships insurers, because insurance is very much a
Speaker 1: thing here.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm actually surprised. I mean, what would you do?
Speaker 2: I guess you'd have to bring it back. Eh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they split up and piloted both of the
Speaker 1: ships ashore. Okay, but the Atturne General, however, in charge
Speaker 1: of the inquiry, Frederick solely Flood suspected mischief and potential
Speaker 1: fraud and investigated accordingly. However, after more than three months,
Speaker 1: the court found no evidence of foul play.
Speaker 2: Oh like thought these people might.
Speaker 1: Have done something potentially.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh that is interesting. I ever went there, but that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so there is no evidence but yeah. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Eventually the salvagers received a payment, but only one sixth
Speaker 1: of the forty six thousand dollars, which is ship's cargo,
Speaker 1: had been insured, suggesting that authorities were not entirely convinced.
Speaker 1: That's the de Grotti crew were innocent.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's just shit. Here, you're like almost doing a
Speaker 2: good deed. Really, you could have just left it there
Speaker 2: and just gone on your way, and here you brought
Speaker 2: it to shore and they're like fuck you or something.
Speaker 1: Bad, or they really did do something bad. They could
Speaker 1: have they could have. There is also reports of like
Speaker 1: because they knew the captain had left New York eight
Speaker 1: days before them. The captains knew each other. They're like,
Speaker 1: he knew the course, he knew where he was going,
Speaker 1: So there is potential for premeditation there, just to be.
Speaker 2: Getting insurance money kind of thing, really would be or
Speaker 2: unless there's bad blood.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well forty six thousand dollars then to now.
Speaker 2: Is that what they got or do they get one
Speaker 2: sixth of that?
Speaker 1: Oh, they got one six of it, But forty six
Speaker 1: thousand dollars is what it was insured for.
Speaker 2: Okay, and they probably thought they would have gone more
Speaker 2: potentially too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I'm looking up that in US dollars today,
Speaker 1: see if I can find it. So that is approximately
Speaker 1: one million dollars in insurance money.
Speaker 2: So okay, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: That's that's definitely enough to get some to me. I'm
Speaker 1: sure to commit for all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, actually, because I don't know when
Speaker 2: you're saying these amounts, it's kind of like whatever. But
Speaker 2: then yeah, you have to think about.
Speaker 1: Exactly time and yeah. So since then, though, the whereabouts
Speaker 1: of the crew on board the Mary Celest has never
Speaker 1: been discovered, and what happened to them can only be
Speaker 1: up for speculation. Now Through the decades, any lack of
Speaker 1: facts have only spurred speculation as to what might have
Speaker 1: taken place in theories, of course, have surfaces surfaced, and
Speaker 1: those theories range from mutiny to pirates to even sea monsters.
Speaker 1: Oh god, so I'm.
Speaker 2: Not going to enjoy these theories.
Speaker 1: If you are ready, let us get into some of
Speaker 1: these theories. You good for it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm totally good.
Speaker 1: Before we do, though, I want to hear what you
Speaker 1: have to think. What would have happened to the Mary
Speaker 1: celest What do you got? What do you think?
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I guess my thought is that
Speaker 2: it would be very easy to hide bodies in the ocean.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like how many dead bodies have been hid
Speaker 2: in the ocean? Right?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Count with a disgusting amount. So I would have to
Speaker 2: say that I think it was definitely by someone just
Speaker 2: doing because if it was like weather related or something like,
Speaker 2: I think that it would show more damage to the
Speaker 2: boat or whatever. Right, I don't know that that meant.
Speaker 2: Now that you said a little bit more about that
Speaker 2: other captain, I'm like, oh, because it would be so
Speaker 2: easy for them to do that. It would be because
Speaker 2: they're the ones bringing it back and stuff, and they
Speaker 2: can stage everything.
Speaker 1: Right now, A little bit to add on to that
Speaker 1: I should have mentioned this already. Eight days. I did
Speaker 1: say he was eight days ahead of the other ship, right,
Speaker 1: eight days to catch up to a ship like that
Speaker 1: like damn near impossible. Okay, So the fact that's kind
Speaker 1: of like assumed that that's not really a plausible assumption
Speaker 1: that it was fraud, because the chances of that ship
Speaker 1: being able to catch up being eight days behind is
Speaker 1: pretty much like, yeah, no, it's got to be like
Speaker 1: if you catch up, that they would have had to
Speaker 1: have fucked up their path.
Speaker 2: Where they may be thinking they'd crossed their pass when
Speaker 2: they were coming home or going and coming home or something.
Speaker 1: Well, if they're coming home, they wouldn't have had their
Speaker 1: their shipment would have been so more than likely it's
Speaker 1: not insurance fraud. But that doesn't mean it's not possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my first thought wasn't what it wasn't then,
Speaker 2: But let me hear these other theories and I'm going
Speaker 2: to guess again.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's start on the mutiny. Of course, this
Speaker 1: could be anyone for any reason, but the most popular individual, well,
Speaker 1: there are there are two. There is a fictional one.
Speaker 1: There is a book written about this story. A fictional
Speaker 1: book where a slave path boards the ship as part
Speaker 1: of the crew and offs everybody as part of a
Speaker 1: revenge thing.
Speaker 2: So, okay, I also don't think it's pirates. Just realize something.
Speaker 1: You don't think it's pirates.
Speaker 2: Because I think they would have taken everything exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we'll talk about that one gets pirates. There's
Speaker 1: another one that comes to mutiny, and we're talking about
Speaker 1: our dear old Captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs. Now, see, was
Speaker 1: a very religious and I mean very religious man. He
Speaker 1: would spend most of his spare time reading the Bible,
Speaker 1: memorizing passages, and even quoting verses to his crew when
Speaker 1: he gave out orders. The theory goes that in some
Speaker 1: sort of sea sickness or madness, Briggs became delusional and
Speaker 1: clung to his religion for that like life raft sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Now, perhaps he saw his crew as demons
Speaker 1: of some delusions, or maybe he thought he heard the
Speaker 1: voice of angels. But for whatever divine reason he thought
Speaker 1: he was doing, he slayed each and every one of
Speaker 1: his crew members one by one and through their bodies overboard,
Speaker 1: including his family. Then, not being able to man a
Speaker 1: ship by himself, set off on the only lifeboat as
Speaker 1: an escape and was lost at sea.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, because you have actually I've heard of people
Speaker 2: going a little bit looney on the yeah, on the
Speaker 2: open water like that.
Speaker 1: Eh, definitely, it's a real thing.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I just think not being in to
Speaker 2: see land and stuff for so long it doesn't it
Speaker 2: makes total sense.
Speaker 1: Well, and that kind of leads into another kind of
Speaker 1: a parallel theory with the mutiny, specifically because mutiny is
Speaker 1: usually like being overthrowing the captain, so these kind of
Speaker 1: are mutiny esque. But the real mutiny kind of theory
Speaker 1: is some of the crew got into the alcohol. Now
Speaker 1: the alcohol is not for consumption, it's industrial use, like
Speaker 1: fucking isopropo alcohol. Yeah, but you're sailing the seas, seeing
Speaker 1: the same fucking nine other faces all day and night.
Speaker 1: You get in the same sort of sea sickness, the delusions.
Speaker 1: You want to fucking cut back a little bit and relax. So,
Speaker 1: you know, you and the other crew members crack open
Speaker 1: one of the casks down below. You start drinking some
Speaker 1: industrial alcohol, even though it might make you go blind.
Speaker 1: Oh good, and for whatever reason you're drunken stupor you
Speaker 1: think you know what we could man this ship. You
Speaker 1: know how talk gets when you start drinking. So they
Speaker 1: overthrow the captain. And now as you overthrow the captain
Speaker 1: in mutiny, you are now forced to captain it yourself
Speaker 1: with a crew who's not used to captain position, and
Speaker 1: they don't really know what they're doing. They realize they're
Speaker 1: only option. They can't do this on their own. They
Speaker 1: see land nearby because there were islands out in the area,
Speaker 1: and they hitch on the lifeboat and try to hit shore,
Speaker 1: leaving the ship abandoned and they are lost at sea.
Speaker 1: So there's that theory as well. The actual mutiny theory interesting.
Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, man, I guess the weather could
Speaker 2: have if there was any evidence though of like foul play,
Speaker 2: like blood or anything, though, the weather could have wiped it.
Speaker 1: The weather could have wiped it away. And this is
Speaker 1: very unlikely. I don't think someone would worry about this
Speaker 1: back then, especially on the sea, if you're going to
Speaker 1: abandon the ship. But there is potential for them washing
Speaker 1: it away, because I mean, you have eleven it was
Speaker 1: found eleven days later. Who's to say someone didn't slay
Speaker 1: everyone in one day and stayed on there for another
Speaker 1: five days before they took off right exactly, but more
Speaker 1: than likely on a rough sea it would have been rain.
Speaker 1: It would have been you know, water splashing on board,
Speaker 1: which probably would have washed away at least majority of
Speaker 1: blood if it all took place on deck. So now
Speaker 1: we're going to get to the pirates. This is pretty simple, straightforward.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you don't think it's pirates. Pirates simply
Speaker 1: caught up with the ship, boarded it, killing everyone and
Speaker 1: looted the ship. However, the problem with this go ahead.
Speaker 2: They didn't loot.
Speaker 1: They didn't loot. There is food, there was personal items,
Speaker 1: and there was good still on board. And this is
Speaker 1: pretty much just kind of moot.
Speaker 2: This is it would have just been bear. They would
Speaker 2: have taken everything like that.
Speaker 1: This these are some terrible fucking pirates. If their pirates
Speaker 1: looting this ship, that is true, We're going to take over.
Speaker 1: What are you taking? Your lives and that lifeboat? Like?
Speaker 2: What? Terrible?
Speaker 1: Okay, So no, this leads us to the sea monster's done,
Speaker 1: dun done, this ship lost at sea? Now, how could
Speaker 1: this not be a theory? Honestly, sea monsters just saying, now,
Speaker 1: imagine a colossal squid. Okay, see what that is.
Speaker 2: Well, it's kind is it kind of like from pirates
Speaker 2: to the Caribbean. That's what I'm visioning, some sort of.
Speaker 1: Well that was technically that was the kraken technically, but
Speaker 1: something like that. The kraken is potentially berthed from colossal squid.
Speaker 1: So you're you're in the right ballpark, but that one
Speaker 1: was definitely way bigger. However, colossal squid can reach up
Speaker 1: to lengths of forty six feet.
Speaker 2: Holy heck. Okay, sorry, I do not like that visual. No,
Speaker 2: that's terrifying and way up.
Speaker 1: To at least eleven hundred pounds.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. No, okay, ah, yeah, you're good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, imagine the tentacles blasting from the water surface and
Speaker 1: grabbing someone on the crew right in front of you,
Speaker 1: someone you work with, getting just sucked into the ocean
Speaker 1: from one of these tentacles. Worst of all, their tentacles
Speaker 1: don't just have suction cups. Colossal squids also have barbs
Speaker 1: that can hook deep into your thresh.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, this is a real life thing.
Speaker 1: Colossal squid is a real life animal.
Speaker 2: Holy heck. Okay, this is why I'm afraid of the ocean.
Speaker 1: There's very few specimens to have ever been found. But
Speaker 1: it is a real life animal. I hate that. Now,
Speaker 1: as you run below deck trying to run from these tentacles,
Speaker 1: the tentacles follow you as the creature climbs on board,
Speaker 1: devouring anyone it can get a hold of them. Now,
Speaker 1: it's said to a lot of deep sea creatures as
Speaker 1: a colossal squid is. A deep sea creature can go
Speaker 1: for many times as up or sorry, I can go
Speaker 1: to as many lengths of up to four years without eating.
Speaker 1: So imagine a creature who hasn't eaten four potential of
Speaker 1: up to four years, coming to surface, clinging on the
Speaker 1: ship and finding snacks. It is going to feast.
Speaker 2: I don't know, though, because I think that there would
Speaker 2: be areas in the ship that it couldn't get to.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen octopus and squids? They can live,
Speaker 1: they don't have skeletons. They can squeeze into super tight places.
Speaker 2: Hey Ben, you also agree with that.
Speaker 1: Nope, definitely not. So it grabs a hold of you
Speaker 1: as you try and hide. As you try and run,
Speaker 1: whether you jump overboard or you try and hide on
Speaker 1: the ship, one of the ways is not better than
Speaker 1: the other, because you're doomed to either drowned or get
Speaker 1: eaten one of the two, and eventually, as the squid
Speaker 1: picks one of you off one by one, there is
Speaker 1: no one left and it just simply returns to the ocean,
Speaker 1: leaving a barren ship.
Speaker 2: Holy, that one is wild.
Speaker 1: Oh so, like the kraken and sea monsters are clearly
Speaker 1: a thing of fiction, But the colossal squid, like I said,
Speaker 1: is in fact real and capable of devouring humans. It's
Speaker 1: just a matter of what are the odds and is
Speaker 1: it actually likely that this would be the scenario? No,
Speaker 1: this is very unlikely. An attack on a ship like this,
Speaker 1: but from a colossal squid has never actually been recorded,
Speaker 1: And wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Know that those are tasty that humans are tasty snacks?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if it tastes one, it's like lais
Speaker 1: potato chips, but you can't just have uh So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's the sea monster theory, Though technically possible, very unlikely,
Speaker 1: probably as unlikely as the horrendous pirates who don't know
Speaker 1: how to loot now. Another theory states that the alcohol
Speaker 1: on board could have been the problem, much like the mutiny,
Speaker 1: the crew drinking the alcohol causing the problem, This causing
Speaker 1: the problem, but in a little bit of a different way.
Speaker 1: Some leaks in the cask could have caused fumes, and
Speaker 1: fumes like this locked in the hull of ship could
Speaker 1: have caused one of two things, poisonous conditions on board
Speaker 1: the ship and even worse, the potential for an explosion.
Speaker 1: So upon discovering the potential hazard the fumes building up
Speaker 1: in the hull, Captain Briggs called for an abandoned ship.
Speaker 1: They all piled in the lifeboat and tethered to a
Speaker 1: rope behind the ship, letting it air out with the
Speaker 1: potential of returning to the ship. Okay, okay, yeah, that
Speaker 1: is until the rope that's holding your lifeboat attached to
Speaker 1: the ship snaps and everyone has lost his sea because
Speaker 1: they did find a frayed rope dragging in the ocean
Speaker 1: behind the ship.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Actually, So that's a crazy one.
Speaker 2: That really crazy.
Speaker 1: Now. The most plausible theory, however, is one from Anne McGregor,
Speaker 1: who created the documentary The True Story of Mary Celeste.
Speaker 2: Where's this documentary?
Speaker 1: I actually didn't get to watch it. I read a
Speaker 1: lot of articles on it, but I have not watched
Speaker 1: the documentary myself, so I know the gist of the
Speaker 1: documentary without watching it. Okay, I want to watch it
Speaker 1: though it seems pretty good. Now, using current charts from
Speaker 1: the time of the ship was at sea and logbooks
Speaker 1: found you know, they discovered that Briggs was actually one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty miles west of where he thought he was.
Speaker 1: He was off course, probably because of an inaccurate chronometer.
Speaker 1: By the captain's calculations, he should have cited Land three
Speaker 1: days earlier than he actually did. Now, when I mean land,
Speaker 1: I don't mean land like London, I mean land is
Speaker 1: some of the islands in the air, right, okay? Now.
Speaker 1: Notes on board also show that the day before he
Speaker 1: reached the islands nearby, which is the Azara's Islands, Briggs
Speaker 1: changed course and headed north for Santa Maria Islands, perhaps
Speaker 1: seeking haven. So he did change course the night before
Speaker 1: the last entry on the ship's log, the Merry Celeste
Speaker 1: again faced rough seas and winds more than thirty five knots.
Speaker 1: It is also learned that in the ship's history that
Speaker 1: it is in its previous voyage the Marry Celeste had
Speaker 1: carried coal, and that ship had recently been extensively refitted that.
Speaker 2: We know of, right what does thirty five knots mean.
Speaker 1: It's a measurement. Oh okay, okay, measurement of wind speed.
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure what that calculates out.
Speaker 2: To, but yeah, is a rough sea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Coal dust and construction debris could have fouled the
Speaker 1: ship's pump down below, meaning it would explain why the
Speaker 1: pump was disassembled. They were trying to fix it. So
Speaker 1: here we go with a pump unable to pump any
Speaker 1: incoming water. Captain Briggs would not have known how much
Speaker 1: seawater was in the ship's hull, it was too fully packed.
Speaker 1: All he knew was that there was a significant amount
Speaker 1: of water down there. They were down to one pump,
Speaker 1: which potentially could not keep up to the influx of
Speaker 1: water in the ship. Right at that point, Captain Briggs,
Speaker 1: having finally and belatedly seeing land, determined there was no
Speaker 1: way that they could survive on board the ship. It
Speaker 1: was going to sink potentially, so he made a judgment call,
Speaker 1: issuing an order to abandon ship to head to the
Speaker 1: nearby land, where again, when everyone compiled on the lifeboat,
Speaker 1: they never made it to land, but they were lost
Speaker 1: at sea, leaving the Marry Celeste unmanned.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is the last and the most significant theory
Speaker 1: that we have, and that is a story of the
Speaker 1: Mary Celeste.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 1: I think someone's got a text message bed ive that
Speaker 1: it's a very insignificant piece of evidence to me. But
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that frayed rope in the back is
Speaker 1: really leading me to say, you know what, there's a
Speaker 1: good chance they tethered themselves, which they could have tethered
Speaker 1: themselves to in the sinking ship scenario.
Speaker 2: They totally could have.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, so I'm not too sure. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was any murderous rampage. I don't think it was
Speaker 1: really dumb pirates or the unlikely sea monster. I do
Speaker 1: think it was an abandoned ship for whatever hazard. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Anne McGregor has most likely got the got it, got.
Speaker 2: It downpack that's the pump one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's done her research, she's looked at the logs,
Speaker 1: she's looked at the ocean flow charts and everything, and
Speaker 1: I think she's got it.
Speaker 2: Because, Yeah, as you were first kind of talking, I
Speaker 2: thought that someone hiding on deck could have been quite
Speaker 2: a potential. But I also think if if it was
Speaker 2: a rampage thing, and I have killed everyone was murdered
Speaker 2: that they would have just been a shit show on deck,
Speaker 2: like a lot of things would be broken or like
Speaker 2: knocked over or just like would look. I don't know,
Speaker 2: so I'm thinking I'm thinking one of these last two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think most likely. I think if there was murder,
Speaker 1: there would have been some blood found on.
Speaker 2: Board, yeah, like under deck or something.
Speaker 1: Because if you're going to murder ten individuals or nine individuals,
Speaker 1: if you are one of the crew members, if you're
Speaker 1: going to murder that many people, you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: able to do it all on an open deck. No,
Speaker 1: You're going to be getting them one by one in
Speaker 1: nooks and crannies when they're down below, when they're in
Speaker 1: their cabin, when they're alone. And that's going to be
Speaker 1: areas where there's not blood being washed away by water
Speaker 1: or rain. So I don't think there's any murder's rampage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's sea monsters. I don't think there's pirates.
Speaker 1: I think it was an abandoned ship.
Speaker 2: Scenario, which is so sad that they all decided to
Speaker 2: abandon then die like oh.
Speaker 1: Now, potentially it could have been the fact that that
Speaker 1: one captain from the other ship force them to abandon
Speaker 1: ship and brought it in the ship in for himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then remember he was he would never have
Speaker 2: passed him. Yeah, so I don't know about that one either.
Speaker 1: Unless maybe what if he hired some fucking pirates being like, yo,
Speaker 1: these guys are going to be out there. No, you know,
Speaker 1: get him off ship. We'll take it in and we'll
Speaker 1: get the insurance money and we'll split it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of sad that you'll just never know.
Speaker 1: Hey, I know, but that is the story.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a thinker. You think a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a thinker, and if you think too much
Speaker 1: you might get thunk. I don't know if that means anything.
Speaker 1: I just said it because I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we'll put a post on Instagram. I'd love
Speaker 2: to hear what other people think one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Let me let us hear what you have to say,
Speaker 1: even if you have any theories we didn't discuss, or
Speaker 1: if you want to add to the conversation, let's hear
Speaker 1: it in our socials. All the links are where.
Speaker 2: They are on Instagram. I'm like, so terrible.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks down below the description of this podcast description. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can find her Instagram or Facebook, our website. You
Speaker 1: can buy merch down this is why you do this,
Speaker 1: And you can sign up for our patreon, be a patron,
Speaker 1: and if you really want to go, give Nicole some
Speaker 1: words of encouragement. So maybe one day she can get
Speaker 1: get some lists like I don't know, conversation out there,
Speaker 1: and then if I point to her and say where lists,
Speaker 1: she can actually like get that courage and be like,
Speaker 1: I know where the lists. So it's down below on
Speaker 1: the description of this podcast.
Speaker 2: The one problem that I don't know where they are
Speaker 2: is because like that part of this podcast you do.
Speaker 2: I need my description, I know, but I've never had
Speaker 2: to like post a description and like upload it or anything,
Speaker 2: so it doesn't come naturally to me that I just
Speaker 2: know that shit's there.
Speaker 1: Well now you know it's in the description. Ah, now
Speaker 1: I know, Now you know? All right, Well, thank you
Speaker 1: guys for listening. Don't forget to like I said, check
Speaker 1: out those things in the description below, our patreon, our
Speaker 1: merch hit us up on Facebook, Instagram. You can also
Speaker 1: request different stories if you have ideas, let us know.
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: Stay wicked