Speaker 1: It's more than just a podcast. It's a podcast network,
nineteen different podcasts that you can step into and explore.
Arro dot net A r r oe dot net. If
you're into why a authors and why you're not still
baffles me because these are some of the greatest authors
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A r r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hi,
doctor Laura, listen to that energy, doctor Laura, My god,
that you're surrounded by positive energy today.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: You are onto something here that really inspires me as
well as influences me. And I mean that as somebody
a dear future reader moment in the way that I'm
going to be able to look back at this book
and say I can still pull from it because it
really opens up our hearts to a greater future if
we so choose to walk.
Speaker 2: That path beautifully said thank you.
Speaker 1: Because haven't we have when we all dealt with that,
I wish I would have quit sooner.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, everyone has an eighty seven percent of
people say they've reported to a toxic boss.
Speaker 1: That's kind of a dangerous place, isn't it? With a
toxic boss? Because these days you have to define who
that is because everything we're reading is, oh, bosses are
nicer today since the COVID lockdown, everything is going great,
and you want to go what what place of business
are you walking into that you can make a comment
like that because we're all back to wishing we would
have quit.
Speaker 2: Sooner, exactly. And I wouldn't have written this book if
things were getting better. They've actually gone downhill when it
comes to corporate cultures since the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So why why do you think that is? Do you
think it's because everybody you know, we understand the business
side of business is to make the money. But at
the same time, if your team and your bench, I
always compare things to the football or an NBA team.
If your bench isn't very deep, how do you expect
to win? And no wonder people want to quit sooner
because I'm surrounded by one thing every day, no call,
no show. That means they don't even have the guts
to call in to say I ain't coming in.
Speaker 2: Oh it's dear, Yeah it is. It's tricky for sure.
And I'd say that this is on the rise because
when we have an uncertain economy and we have fear
about the economy. People their competitive behaviors come on, and
it's I when you lose and throwing each other under
the bus and scarce resources and fear, Whereas if everyone's
rowing in the same direction, we will get through any
economic storm.
Speaker 1: Is there a psychological constraint that people have got to
move through? And the reason why I bring that up
is because something is stopping employees from jumping up to
the next level. Because if you sit down with Mike Row,
Mike will sit there and tell you that the infrastructure
of this nation is failing because the next level leader
doesn't want to show up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are scared of leadership roles because of the
stress and the overload and all of that. But I
say people, leadership is a great gift and a great responsibility.
Not everyone's cut out for it, though, And we've got
to stop promoting toxic bosses because they're very good at
selling themselves, but they're hurting human being.
Speaker 1: I'm that guy that ends up in the HR a
lot because I'll look at a toxic boss and I'll go,
I know you're not talking to me. I First of all,
it's not because I'm much older than you, but I
know that you are not talking to me like that.
I never had this before, so I don't mind taking
them on.
Speaker 2: Good, that's awesome. We need more people like you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But to go into an HR meeting and go, huh,
here we are again, what do you want me to sign?
Can you just copy my signature? Come on now?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And AhR is caught in the middle of it all. Off.
Often we say HR is not doing their job, but
they're actually caught in the middle of a political situation
at work, especially if the higher up is a toxic
boss and it's reported to HR through an employee. HR
is caught in the middle because that is their higher up.
Speaker 1: Well are they our friends? And the reason why is
because I was working for a radio station where I
was in the HR room and the big boss walks in.
HR person sits on the sofa, puts their legs up
on the sofa and then they start talking to me,
and I'm going, where did I go wrong in this
industry where I can't put my feed up?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man? Yeah, that's an interesting story.
Speaker 1: But we're all facing it though, because I mean, that's
the thing about it is, is that whether you have
a great boss or a toxic boss. Even with a
great boss, I sit there and wonder if they're not
shooting off a candy coated plastic bathroom mirror smile. Because
I want to trust my boss. I want to invest
in the captain of a ship that's going down. But
but there are those little things that they've got to
do because corporate said so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're talking about a whole bunch of
issues with corporate hierarchy and dysfunction in corporations. And where
my book really focuses is what's the impact on the
human being who falls prey to a toxic boss. How
do you identify what's happening to you that you're not alone,
how do you navigate it, and how do you actually
escape and recover? Because a truly toxic boss is not sustainable. See.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I keep bringing up everything else
is because I want that listener to understand that you
and I are speaking the same street that they're on.
They just won't talk about it. And if we don't
talk about what they're feeling inside their heart, how do
we expect them to pick up this book and to
learn from it. Because here's the thing, Like I said
in the beginning. I wish I'd quit sooner? What about
relationships with people? What about different things? I mean, that's
what I love about this book is that you are
not afraid to go to that one area. What if
I would have quit sooner?
Speaker 2: Exactly? And really helping people to know that there is
a way out and there are such challenges in society
these days. It's a really really tricky world. However, I
do see examples of great leadership out there in organizations.
They're just the minority, right. We need to build more
strong leaders and we need to stop promoting ones that
shouldn't be managing people.
Speaker 1: Well, does that begin with I'll give you a good
example from my team. I don't want to make this
about me, but my team. I've got a senior in
high school that I called him a protege. He was
pissed off about it because he says, now you've put
too much pressure on me. And I said, I see
leadership in you, dude. Do you not think it belongs
with the younger people. Get them to understand that there
are leadership qualities in them, and get them focused in
on being a future.
Speaker 2: Leader, exactly understanding what you're meant to do in the
world and where your talents and strengths are. And leading
people's not easy. Like I say, it's a great gift,
but a great responsibility. People are complex, nuanced, and emotional.
And I've spent my twenty five years in organizational psychology
working across organizations and humans and it's not an easy territory.
But it can be learned. People can learn how to lead.
But some people should never be leading people, and those
are the toxic one.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with doctor Laura coming
up next, the name of a book. I wish I'd
quit sooner. We've all been there. Let's get back to
doctor Laura. Don't we as those on the receiving end
of a toxic boss go through withdrawals, because I mean
it's almost like, wow, this person would have said this.
Oh my god, I wouldn't have done that at the
other job because this person would have done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we're always comparing and contrasting, right, We're always
We're always comparing. But one thing's for sure. If you're
working for a toxic boss, it's harming your physical health,
your mental health, and your ability to get your job done.
Speaker 1: So do you suggests that people go into us. I
do a thing called defragging, which is asking yourself the
questions and questioning the answers and what And the reason
for that is is for me to understand who is
my boss? Why are they being a butt heead today?
What is going on with this relationship? So do we
need to start asking more questions about ourselves so that
we can understand those around us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just having that self insight. Right, you may
be overly sensitive that day, you may have had a
bad sleep, right, you know. But I mean, our boss
is just a human being who's going through the emotions
and challenges of this life. And they'll have good days
and bad days. And there's a lot of difficult bosses
out there. And I always say a difficult boss is
not a toxic boss. A difficult boss is frustrating and
they're a struggle to work with. But you can learn
to manage them. You can learn to cope with them,
manage them. They can improve your relationship, can improve. It's sustainable.
A toxic boss is not sustainable.
Speaker 1: God, you're giving me some flashbacks of toxic boxes. But
the problem is about a toxic boss is you want
to write about them. You want to talk about them
on social media. And then there's that other side of
you that saying, do not do not bring their name
up because you're furthering their story and not your recovery story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, there's no good in spreading the word about
them in a way that can put yourself at risk, right,
and I talk about how you can rebuild trust in
your next workplace and how you can look for another job.
And it's never about bashing the toxic boss. It's about
putting your dust self forward.
Speaker 1: Is that the reason why there's so many job hoppers
right now? It's because, I mean, somebody gets a job,
they come in one day, they ain't coming back, and
it's like, okay, what happened here?
Speaker 2: To where?
Speaker 1: Because I thought radio had turned over go into the
world of retail. Holy cow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean people, especially the youngest generation in the
world work first rate. Now Generation ZE, who are in
their twenties, they're not putting up with this sort of
abuse for very long, compared to people you know, my age,
who are fifty and uh, we put up. We tend
to put up with it more. But when you're a
younger person here, Yeah, no, I grew up with the
anti bullying messages coming at me. I grew up learning
more about mental health and I'm not going to sacrifice
my mental health for this a whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but to help out a toxic boss. It kind
of reminds me of of something that hit me while driving.
If they're being a an a hole like you said,
do you well, why don't you ask them about their lives?
Why don't you ask them about their kid or their dog?
Find out more? Maybe they're sitting there saying, nobody gives
a crap about me, Why don't you ask about me?
And I'll be less toxic?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yes and no. So if you have
a toxic boss who is truly toxic and a narcissist
is one of the personas of the toxic boss. I
have eight personas of the toxic boss, by the way,
in I wish i'd quit sooner. But if they are
truly that way, Yeah, you want to suck up to them,
You want to compliment them, you want to ask about them.
You want to compliment so they feel good. You got
to stroke their ego. But that's different than say a
difficult boss, where yeah, you do get to know them,
you do ask about their day, et cetera. And that'll
help build the relationship with a toxic boss. It's just
about survival mechanisms and stroking the ego is one way
to survive working for a narcissistic boss.
Speaker 1: There's a big word that's inside the title of the book,
and really, I want this book to be an inspiration
and not something that's going to tear a reader apart.
And that word is I wish I'd quit sooner. I
don't want anybody to feel like a quitter with this book,
because you're being a leader by saying you don't have
to quit. It's a continuation of you. You didn't quit,
they quit you.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. That's why I have a bird fleeing a cage.
It's about flying and soaring in your career and getting
back in the driver's seat of your career. And I
have people set a good ridden date where they'll no
longer be there, but they have to put the things
into place to get to that point. And it's not
about failing. Quitting is not about failing. It's about setting
yourself free and taking charge of your career. Now.
Speaker 1: Because I'm a daily writer and I've written about these
toxic bosses of radio. Should I destroy my daily writing?
Speaker 2: So keep talking about it, keep talking. And they're across industries. Yeah,
of course they're in media, but they're across every single industry.
Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you something, doctor Laura. Is
that and this is the God's honest truth, is that
I have a stack of these books that I'm going
to share with people that I know that are leaders,
and I want them to have these books. And because
I believe so much in your energy that it's almost like,
why did it take me six decades get to this book?
Speaker 2: Well, I so appreciate that. You've definitely warmed my heart.
I'm in Toronto right now and it's a snow day here.
Everything clothes, cloth, everything. I have a book launch plan
here and a lot of media today in the studios
and wish me luck. You know, the one snow day
that everything closes is the day of my launch here. Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, you've got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. If you're starting up a podcast, whatever
you're doing, the only way to get the word out
is to use what we have as tools today.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a podcast where work meets Life and
where work meets life is in its sixth year, and
you'll hear from me on the podcast talking about timely
issues around how we can help humans thrive and organizations thrive.
So it's the intersection of where work meets life. So yeah,
I'm excited for that, and I interview global guests experts
in these areas too. Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, please come back to this show anytime. That door
is always going to be open for you. Doctor Wonderful.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate you and your time and your energy.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, you too. Take care