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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Alice World. I have a super special guest. Oh,

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I love your glasses. His name is Thomas from Paranoid American.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you. I feel very welcome. I appreciate you

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having me.

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Speaker 1: Here nice and I love your co hosts over there

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Slimer dancing in the background. He's given the Slimer vibes.

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Speaker 2: But it helps in case the stream ever freezes. You

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can tell if I've just gone very stoic, or if

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like we're still broadcasting.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can see you're on the Neon train too,

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because we love the Neon. We've got all that. But

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I want to tell you guys a story before we

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get into it tonight. I have actually met Thomas, and

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we have had a curse on our household since that day,

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not believe. So we tried to go to an event

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called Bohemian Grove where Jay was supposed to sing all

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his cringe course songs and get to know lots of

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other cool podcasters and do his comedy thing. We were

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so excited and he got sicker over the day. We

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drove all the way to Tiafa. You know, I said,

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I'll drive you there and you do your thing, and

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we can leave right away, and he's like I'll try,

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you know, like he was being a trooper. But we

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got there and I walk in and I see these

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cool occult little books and I'm like, this kind of

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takes me back because it was like a merch table

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that you would see at a conference, like an old

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conspiracy conference or something, you know, oh yeah, And I

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was like, yeah, these look cool. I'm and again, and

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so I bought him and I'm flipping through and I

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go to the QR code that comes with those, and

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I go to your website, Paranoid American, and I'm trying

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to take care of him, but I'm so interested in

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what's going on, and I'm like, I see a cult

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book club. I'm like, cool, I love occult books. You know,

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that's my whole shtick, you know, that's our thing we

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do on rock fins. And click on the first one

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and it's mind Control and I'm like, oh me, you know.

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And then his other play was like Occult Disney, and

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I'm like, did we just become best friends?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely right?

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Speaker 1: Occult book Club, Fritz Springmeer, Occult Disney. I mean, you're

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speaking my language. So I was like, I got to

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get this person like old school occult pamphlets. So I

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am saving all my energy. I didn't want to cancel

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on because I was too excited. But we have had

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flus since that day that I met you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, welcome to Bohemian Grove.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. So let's just talk about your background for a second,

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because I know my audience is gonna go crazy over

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your channel. Seems like you've hit the ground running on

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all of this stuff, and so just tell us a

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little bit. How did you get so smart? What's up

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with that?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Just the nerd. I grew up with a lot

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of bullies, you know, in my area, and I ended

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up getting My mom was a public school teacher, and

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this was back when Steve Jobs was giving apples to

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educators and filling them up with schools, especially in the Northeast.

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Like I grew up in upstate New York, and I

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ended up basically just teaching myself how to program when

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I was I don't know, like eight or nine, and

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slowly just like started getting better and better at that.

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And at some point I was introduced to working in

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audio and video and like post production, and I downloaded

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a bunch of pirated versions of three d Studio Max,

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like version two or whatever, and I was absolutely fascinated

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by this concept of like just using pure energy, like

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no physical matter is moving anywhere at all, but you're

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creating music and movies and animation and pictures and stuff,

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and it just like fascinated me endlessly. So I kind

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of knew, I guess lucky real early on that I

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just wanted to do digital art creation for like the

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rest of my life. So I've just been going as

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hard in the paint as I could ever since then.

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I joined the military right out of school to do technology,

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to do programming, and that kind of changed the entire

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course of my life. It gave me like I was

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already a little bit conspiratorial minded because I grew up

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when X files was big. A lot of the music

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I listened to it was all about illuminati and don't

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trust the government, and I didn't really know what a

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lot of that meant. My favorite album was one from

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Kill Army called Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. I had

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no idea what that actually meant at the time. I

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just really liked the concept, so I kind of had

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all the ingredients. And then once I joined the military

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and got a taste of like big boy real world

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stuff that it started solidifying, and then it was like, oh,

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maybe some of these weird conspiracy fictional sounding things that

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I found novel, maybe there's something to that. So that

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was sort of like the birth of my origin story.

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I had a long road after that. I ended up

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getting boosted out of the military because I didn't want

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to take one of their experimental things that they were pushing.

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This is in two thousand and two or two thousand

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and three, and immediately from there I got a job

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at Disney.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so worlds are converging and realities are collassing here.

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So you've gone from an avid reader as a child

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to conspiracy UFO. Like you mentioned, X files were big

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X files nerds. That's an opener for a lot of people,

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like what is going on out there? They just had

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a meaning about u AP's and UFOs yesterday, like a

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congressional right in Congress. Yeah, So I feel like every

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time something goes wrong, they try to pull out aliens

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and everyone like, we don't care. If there's no real

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aliens running around, like, we don't do I stop to

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go to work tomorrow, then I don't care?

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Speaker 2: Right, is my mortgage still do. That's a really big one. Also,

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whoever is planning blue Beam out there, like you guys

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missed your shot, Like the nineteen nineties, maybe the early

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two thousands, that would have been the absolute best time

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to do it all. And now I think we're just

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a little bit saturated, a little bit worn out, and

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also almost expecting it. Like after you see the Tupac hologram,

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then you see an alien, A lot of people are

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gonna be like, wait a minute, is just another Tupac

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thing at Coachella?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So unless there's actual like UFO is floating

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above the capitals, I don't think anyone's gonna care. But

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we keep on talking about aliens because we know that's

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one of the sy ops that they like to play

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a lot.

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Speaker 2: Right, And they've also done a really good job at

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the same way that politics works. We've got like these

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two main parties to go with. They're also sort of

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defining what an alien, what would constitute an alien, or

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what constitutes like an actual UFO. They keep showing you

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light orbs or maybe it's the Little Gray Men, or

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maybe it's the Reptilians or whatever, but it's just these

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very convenient ways to automatically group everything into certain categories.

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And it also, my opinion, is just a way of

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like planting these ideas as well, so now when someone

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does have an experience, they'll lean into the template that

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was kind of provided for them.

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Speaker 1: So how did you find working at Disney? I see

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you have at least fifty or between fifty and sixty

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Disney movie reviews, right.

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Speaker 2: That was something that I did a show with Sam

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Tripoli on tinfoil Hat, and we broke down a whole

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bunch of occult Disney stuff, Walt Disney's upbringing in Dame Malay,

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which is sort of like a cup Scouts for Mason's

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type thing, and then really Fantasia is one of my

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favorite things to break down. And from that, I linked

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up with someone that had heard the episode, Mac Comgy's,

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and he's been doing podcasting for like five or six

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years that I was brand new, didn't have any of

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my own shows. I had guessed like once or twice,

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and even before then I'd have to like prep myself

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mentally for a couple hours to not be frazzled. So

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I figured this would be a great opportunity to just

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practice and practice and figure out the format and figure

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out almost toast master style, try and get all the

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likes and ums and butts as far away as the

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normal conversations I can. And over time, the original premise

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just kind of resonated with me a lot because we

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decided to watch every single theatrical Disney animated release from

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Snow White up until right now. I'm watching Valiant, which

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I think is like two thousand and five, two thousand

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and six.

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Speaker 3: OK, after all that, Like, yeah, I mean, honestly, I

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would I have more like trauma from just having to

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go to work and deal with some of the Disney politics.

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Speaker 2: Watching a Disney movie doesn't really scar me. Again, maybe

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going through the military too, like I helped raise my

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barrier for what trauma actually constitutes.

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Speaker 1: So, speaking of trauma, did you discover like your first

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occult book that I saw on your playlist was Fritz

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Springmeier I Lluminati My Control. That's a classic, you know,

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that's like one of the text books of what we

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talk about, right, So did you discover that before you

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were working at Disneyland or after?

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Speaker 2: Oh, way way before I found I think the first

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a cult book I ever found was Secret Teachings of

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all ages by Manley Palmer Hall. And this was on

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one of those like Sacred text dot org type sites

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even in the mid late nineties, or like whale dot

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two one of those, and I remember every time it

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would come up, it would just blow my mind because

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it would break down. I liked reading mythology. My mom

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was huge into Greek and Roman mythology, so I kind

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of grew up with a lot of those stories, but it

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was always like these huge marble statues in the sky

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doing these things that weren't as relatable. And once I

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discovered Manley Palmer Hall, it brought it like right in

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front of my face, and it almost made them like

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living and like the symbolism. All of a sudden I understood,

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or at least I started to get a glimpse of

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like why is that scorpion there? Why is he stabbing

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that bowl? You know what? Like why is that funny

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hat on his head that he's dressed up like the Smurfs?

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And once I started realizing, oh, this is all encoded information,

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I kind of just went down a deep rabbit hole

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of like, okay, what else is on this site that

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like all the sites that keep showing me the Secret

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Teachings of all Ages and a course on there you'd

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find Fritz Springmeyer. So I think I came across him

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and the Illuminatous Trilogy somewhere in like the year two thousand,

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two thousand and one. I had just gotten into my

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actual like a listment, my assignment in the military, and

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it was weird because we had also just experienced nine

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to eleven. And I think that one kind of set

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this is one of those big things that set me

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over the cliff in the conspiracy world, is because when

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nine to eleven happened, I was in boot camp and

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we were just doing regular drills and stuff out on

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the mat and they bring us all inside and they

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give us flash lights, and they have us stand out

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on the roads and like get into like the halt

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who goes there sort of a posture holding their little

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flashlights and wearing like safety vests, and no one had

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any idea what was going on, and it was It

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wasn't for I think another two weeks and somebody's parents

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managed to write something that they didn't read or they

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didn't notice, and then somebody, hey, I think like something

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happened in like the outside world. And once that rumor

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started making its rounds around all of the trainees. Eventually

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the Tis brought everyone in and said, yeah, there's been

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this whole attack and everything, but I just remember it

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that that moment and the rest of this basic training,

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but how easy it was to keep somebody in a bubble,

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and also that the outside world had all gone through

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this cathartic like reuniting and we're all Americans, we love

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each other and we're stronger. And I didn't go through

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any of that, Like I was just tired and doing

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sit ups and running that entire time with no inclination.

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So that that was kind of when I maybe thought

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back on the Fritz, Springwire and some of like the

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MK Ultra stuff, like any connections.

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Speaker 1: Like they're trying to break me down and rebuild.

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Speaker 2: Me one hundred percent. The very first night in boot camp,

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as soon as I got it, this is like the

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most vivid memory I've got of all boot camp. But

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the first night, as everyone's kind of entering this room,

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the first time, they're wearing their civilian clothes, they got

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their crazy hair and stuff. Think I had like a

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huge afro at the time. Everyone's babies, or at least

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they are completely oblivious to what's going on. And they

240
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had three tis sort of like as a checkpoint right

241
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as people come in, screaming at whoever the next person

242
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to walk through the door was. But I kind of

243
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like slunk away and I went to the back of

244
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the room. I sort of unpacking my stuff. So I

245
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just kind of was observing, And every single new recruit

246
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,000
that walked in the door, one guy would yell at

247
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him to get in the shower. One guy would yell

248
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at him to like go and unpack his stuff, and

249
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then another one would tell him to like put his

250
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,080
clothes on or something. So like the first guy like,

251
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get in the shower, take your clothes off, blah blah blah,

252
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and the second guy's like, what are you doing, Put

253
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your shirt back on, go over there. And I realized

254
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,320
that they're not actually giving them commands that they're expecting

255
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,919
them to follow, like they're obviously just do a giving

256
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,159
them all these conflicting instructions to see how they handle

257
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it and which decision they make. And so many people

258
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went into the bathroom and took a shower with their

259
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all of their clothes on because they could they couldn't decide, like, well,

260
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I don't want to ignore this guy yelling at me,

261
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so I'll kind of do what all three of them

262
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are saying. And I could kind of see how every

263
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:54,000
person was reacting a little bit different to that. And

264
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all I was thinking the whole time was like, Oh,

265
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:59,799
this is that Fritz Springmeyer stuff, This is that mk

266
00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:02,600
ult programming. I get it now, but you like, it

267
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:07,080
was hard to visualize without going through that experience and

268
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,279
seeing it happen on like a massive scale.

269
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Speaker 1: That's so interesting because on the cover of the book

270
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,000
that I gave you, there's a princess and a soldier,

271
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and so what we were noticing, like back in that

272
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:28,480
era was like princess warrior programming, right right, yeah, but

273
00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:34,480
like all the girls were pink and princess and all

274
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the boys were like military. Like it's not that way

275
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,679
anymore because we've changed it through androgyny. But when I

276
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,919
was like researching and writing that, if you would go

277
00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:47,440
to target all everything in the girls, I would be

278
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,360
like pink, princess, and everything in the boys would be

279
00:14:50,440 --> 00:15:00,240
super like military or dinosaurs, just everything violent. Not that

280
00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:02,679
there's anything wrong with militaries or whatever, but it's just

281
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like there's only two choices back then.

282
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Speaker 2: My favorite example of that one was that a lot

283
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,000
of the toys were basically the exact same toy. They

284
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,919
would just make a girl version of boy versions. So

285
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like Polly Pocket was really big and it was all

286
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,279
princess and clamshells and pink and pastels. And then there

287
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,159
was one called Mighty Max, which was exactly the same

288
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,480
as what Polly Pocket was. Yeah, but it was like

289
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:30,039
a guy that was going into these skull shaped caverns

290
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:36,480
and chains and actions. Yeah, I remember that that whole

291
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,840
sort of like I guess, you know, false binary stuff

292
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that was getting pushed. And again it's in my mind,

293
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:45,759
I guess the way that I've brought up, But it's

294
00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:49,960
just always seeing how having people to label themselves and

295
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,039
put themselves in buckets is so convenient for everyone but them, right,

296
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,679
Like it makes a convenient for your jobs and your

297
00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:59,440
society and your government and everything. And that's just another

298
00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:00,639
version of that.

299
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,679
Speaker 1: Well, we were talking about that in relation to consumerism,

300
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,559
and it just made me remember my buddy and kid's sister,

301
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,759
right right, Who would think that a little boy wants

302
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:17,639
to carry around a life sized doll with him? But

303
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,639
you have my buddy and kid's sister.

304
00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 2: That's kind of where we got Chucky from. I think.

305
00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:24,279
Speaker 1: Exactly.

306
00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:28,120
Speaker 2: It was inherently creepy, although My Pet Monster I think

307
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,200
bridged both of those guys, like it bridged the gender gap,

308
00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:34,200
and I think he was universally cool.

309
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 1: My pet mons remember that. And trolls yep.

310
00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:42,799
Speaker 2: And there was like little goblin things, moglins or something

311
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,080
that you would wear in your hand. Yeah, make them talk.

312
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,799
Speaker 1: What are the balls that you throw with the angry faces?

313
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,279
Speaker 2: Mad balls? Yeah, exactly see. And and this is I

314
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:58,159
guess another that I'd like to go on is the

315
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,759
consumerism like program. Thus but like the nostalgia is hard

316
00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:04,640
to separate from the consumerism.

317
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 1: And they had they created us to be occultist almost

318
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,440
because of magic and Harry Potter and like all of

319
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:20,599
these Disney I mean obviously they're training children who are

320
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,920
intelligent and creative to be interested, and I think all

321
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,079
those types of people are drawn to the occult And

322
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,599
you're making you're cacking me up because look at the cover,

323
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,079
Like don't these look like little mad balls? And like, uh,

324
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:37,920
my monster, my pet Monsters.

325
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 2: And I got to give a shout out to wan

326
00:17:40,839 --> 00:17:44,160
Ayala of the one on one podcast who basically came

327
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,759
up with the idea of doing this occult this Monday,

328
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:50,400
and this issue that you're holding up here was his baby.

329
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,200
He's been trying to write a book on monkeylus for

330
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,680
so long and this is sort of the first version.

331
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,839
This is like the the entry point to what eventually

332
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,319
will be a large, expansive book. And that guy on

333
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,839
the cover, it was actually sort of an inspiration of

334
00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:08,599
like a Pokemon kind of theme, like you got to

335
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,759
catch them all. But that's Count Coufstein, who's the one

336
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:15,559
guy that's in the Guinness Book of World Records for

337
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,759
owning the most number of homuncula, which is one of

338
00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:22,839
those weird facts that doesn't sound real but you look

339
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,119
it up and I don't know if it's fanciful or well,

340
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,960
but that's Coufstein and those are his his twelve homunkey Lily.

341
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had to buy I was looking for more.

342
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,799
I'm like, there's only four, but I wanted the whole

343
00:18:32,839 --> 00:18:35,559
set and I had to get it just because of

344
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,960
I love stuff like this.

345
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 2: I grew up too resigns. I remember a lot of

346
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,759
or zines. I don't know what the funciages and anymore,

347
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:47,400
but in like the punk scene, and a lot of

348
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,640
people were putting it and it was usually like anarchist

349
00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:53,799
stuff and Emma Goldman quotes, but I love that whole premise.

350
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,480
I also one of my first jobs when I was

351
00:18:57,519 --> 00:19:00,240
still in school was at a Kinko's, back when it

352
00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:02,279
was just a coffee or just a coffee shop and

353
00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,640
they didn't do FedEx or any of that stuff. And

354
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,440
I kind of got to know all the different locals

355
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,480
that were printing all their own zines because they would

356
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,519
come into Kinko's to get all that stuff done. So

357
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:17,160
that was another fascinating aspect again of taking these raw

358
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,640
ideas and then like somehow manifesting it into physical form

359
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,000
now and spreading it around. I don't know if they

360
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,680
made any waves with it, but I'm just a concept of, Wow,

361
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:29,079
you had this crazy idea last week, and now you're

362
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:30,759
printing out two hundred of these and you're just going

363
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:33,079
to like pass them out and put them in places.

364
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,519
So that was really inspiring. That like kind of shaped

365
00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:36,160
me a little bit.

366
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,799
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can see my books were inspired by

367
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:46,400
the same idea, like underground magazines and just weird stuff

368
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,519
and Church of the SubGenius.

369
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, all hailslock, yeah, all that.

370
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,319
Speaker 1: So these are yeah, these were super cool. So what

371
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:05,480
did you notice in your time at Disneyland? Was there

372
00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:07,359
any so I'm sure you were doing a lot of

373
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,160
recon right looking at Club thirty three and looking for

374
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,640
signs and symbols. I know every time you would go there,

375
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,279
it was all about just finding the hidden Easter eggs.

376
00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:20,279
And we found a bunch and I'm thinking of like

377
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:23,559
the little compass and square on the box on us,

378
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:30,319
that flubride, that Splash Mountain or Thunder Mountain Railroad.

379
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,559
Speaker 2: That's it Son Mountain.

380
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you get to like see a lot of

381
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,759
the park or where? She's kind of like.

382
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I did so. So I was at

383
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,880
Walt Disney World in Orlando for ten years and I

384
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,680
worked in what they called the Royo Disney Production Facility,

385
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,359
and this is where they did a lot of the

386
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,799
post production, a lot of the archival, a lot of

387
00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:55,359
the tape stuff, and it was connected to the animation building.

388
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,359
But at this point the animation building almost everything had

389
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,880
moved over to the West Coast and Burbank and they were,

390
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,000
you know, using a lot of that from cal Arts

391
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:09,000
although Orlando Studio did do a whole bunch more feature

392
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:11,480
film and then a lot of the direct to video

393
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:13,559
type stuff. But one of the cool things is that

394
00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:17,759
since I worked on the studio on property, I could

395
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:20,119
just lead. Like sometimes I would just be a little

396
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,880
bit stir crazier, bored we had a long meeting, I

397
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,079
could just walk out the building and go and ride

398
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:28,559
a few of the roller coasters. Rock and roller Coaster

399
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:31,240
was literally like a two minute walk from my desk,

400
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:33,200
like once I got out of the building, so I

401
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,119
would just go there. We would do Tower Tear constantly.

402
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:38,599
I could probably have gone to all the other ones,

403
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,720
but it would have been a lot longer of a

404
00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:44,319
walk and a wait. But yeah, like I kind of

405
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,759
lived in the park for at least five or six

406
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,680
years until it got busier and the novelty wore off,

407
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,519
And yeah, my eyes were kind of always open to

408
00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:57,720
all this. Although I kind of find that the hidden

409
00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:01,759
symbolism was definitely deeper in the adaptations and some of

410
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:04,240
the stuff that gets left in the cutting room floor

411
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,920
on a lot of like the theatrical releases. The two

412
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,119
craziest things, like the most elationis I guess that I

413
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,240
experienced while like actually working there, and like park related

414
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,000
one which might sound a little bit mild, but somebody

415
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:21,200
on tower or tear I believe had a heart attack.

416
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,119
It was like one of the workers and they died

417
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:26,720
while they were working the ride. Like they didn't get

418
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:28,480
trapped by it or anything. They just had like a

419
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:32,799
medical issue. But what had happened was indicative of kind

420
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:35,160
of a deeper sort of mystery.

421
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: Go ahead, do you want to hear my tower terror story?

422
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,519
Speaker 2: Please? Yeah?

423
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: Okay. So I used to be a tour guide in

424
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,880
Los Angeles and like the Southwest, and we would take coaches,

425
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,440
you know, just Las Vegas or wherever, and a lot

426
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,079
of my work was like at Disneyland in LA taking

427
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,000
teens to Disneyland, and I would just you know, you

428
00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:57,960
could release them for the day and give them their

429
00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:00,359
lunch voucher and then you have eight hours or ten

430
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,000
hours to just wait around and then meet them back

431
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,000
at the bus. Right, So I'd end up, like you

432
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,480
just wandering around the park, like get a go see

433
00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,680
a movie. I knew, like where to catch a nap.

434
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,839
I knew, you know, like the only place serves alcohol.

435
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,519
I knew. We would just like go to the Grand

436
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,160
Adventure Hotel a lot and just hang out in there

437
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,079
because it's very comfortable. But anyways, so but I didn't

438
00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:29,880
know any of the conspiracy like mind control. I knew

439
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,559
that they were heavily into witchcraft, and I was kind

440
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:37,400
of like about that. But so, yeah, I'd hang out

441
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,759
with Disney. And then the first time I went to

442
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:41,559
Disney World, I had already read all the mind control

443
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:44,799
stuff and so this is a whole new world, right,

444
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,640
It's not like fun Disney anymore. And we get on

445
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,720
the Tower of Terror and we already had to like

446
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:57,039
give our thumbprint to get in. So now they're just

447
00:23:57,079 --> 00:24:01,519
introducing biometrics and they're introducing like the passes that you

448
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:04,519
can go on a certain time. And we had been

449
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:05,240
talking like.

450
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: So you're talking this is sometime after twenty twelve, I think, yeah, so.

451
00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:16,319
Speaker 1: And I'm just super new to like Fritz Springmire and

452
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,480
the mind control thing and the Disney thing, and I'm like,

453
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:22,200
and we're kind of public, and I'm like, they could

454
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,119
probably try to kill us, you know. So I'm already

455
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,960
paranoid American going into our terror. And we get to

456
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,319
the top and it like breaks like right before the

457
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,119
drop it's like cluck clunk, and they're like fire box

458
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:42,920
down like a rarer runner and just and people are screaming,

459
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:47,000
the kids are crying, and we're like dangling there because

460
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,440
it was broken. And then I guess they just had

461
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,160
to like put it back on a different track and

462
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,079
go down slowly. So we didn't actually do the terror

463
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,039
drop because it broke before we could do that. But

464
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,920
we were like, no more roller coasters at Disney.

465
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: Uh, you got the pair, you just didn't get the

466
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:08,079
drop part exactly.

467
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no fun, but we got like the paranoid like

468
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960
are they could they just get rid of us? And

469
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,640
I don't know. It's funny.

470
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:19,039
Speaker 2: Well that that ride was particularly complicated for that because

471
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,319
they made Power of Terrors so that if you wrote

472
00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,519
it five times in one day, you would never really

473
00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:27,400
be able to predict when it was going to drop.

474
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,960
That part. It wasn't random, but it it was pre

475
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:33,000
selected from a whole list of different timings where it

476
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,240
would like fake you out a little bit and then

477
00:25:35,319 --> 00:25:37,279
fake you out again and then drop, or it would

478
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,240
just straight drop the first time and then kind of stop.

479
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:42,599
So I had all these different programs. But that was

480
00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:45,759
a known issue, is that I guess between all the

481
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:49,319
different timings or whatever relays they had to make that happen,

482
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,759
sometimes it would cause an issue. But so that that

483
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,960
was the ride that I rode the most. I mean,

484
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,039
I've I was on that thing hundreds and hundreds of times.

485
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:00,880
It never got boring for me. I always loved it.

486
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,359
And that's that was the story that I heard, is

487
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,720
that one of the operators had a medical issue and

488
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,359
he basically passed. But what Disney did is that, at

489
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,200
least in Disney World, which makes it unique from Disneyland,

490
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,319
like in Orlando, they sort of owned this whole area

491
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,480
like it's They've got their own police force, they've got

492
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:23,279
their own ambulances, their fire station, everything. They don't need

493
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:25,920
any of the city Orlando or any of the municipalities

494
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,039
outside to intervene, and they kind of prefer it that way.

495
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:31,799
And what would happen though, is if someone got hurt

496
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:35,480
like this guy that that passed, they wouldn't necessarily declare

497
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:38,720
him dead until they got him outside of Disney property

498
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:41,039
and then bring them into like Orlando proper or one

499
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:44,680
of the surrounding areas and then declare that they were,

500
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,440
you know, they had passed and This was a convenient

501
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480
way of Disney being able to say, you know, no

502
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:53,160
one has ever died on property, or that we've got

503
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,000
a certain like a like a no incident count and

504
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,319
it kind of remind I don't know if you've ever

505
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,519
seen the show The Wire or a lot of these

506
00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:03,000
like cop shows, but a common theme is that if

507
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,279
they find the floater, if they find like a body

508
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,799
in a lake or something, they'll just kind of let

509
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:11,400
it drift to like another part of the county or

510
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,599
like over some jurisdictional lines. So it's like, Okay, not

511
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,039
our now, we don't have to solve the murder. We

512
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:18,680
can report it now, we don't have to solve it,

513
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,599
just to keep that county's numbers low. And that was

514
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,400
one of the first things I was like, wait a minute,

515
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,720
that could definitely be manipulated a little bit. You know,

516
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:30,359
if you can, you know, and you've got all of

517
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,039
your own in house everything security and paramedics and everything,

518
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:36,920
anything that happens in the park really can stay in

519
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,599
the park and you can kind of push it off

520
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,079
to the side. So that was one of them. The

521
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,039
other one some of them it just feels like boring

522
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,839
dispelling rumors but I've heard so many rumors about the

523
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,839
crazy rituals that happen in the tunnels under the Magic Kingdom, right,

524
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,319
like that this is where they're sacrificing people, and so

525
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,839
that the tunnels were a dangerous place. But it was.

526
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,960
It was mostly because there were a few reasons. The

527
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,240
main one is that a lot of the people that

528
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:10,640
are the character actors are overworked, sort of teenagers or

529
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,559
early twenty year old like college kids. And the way

530
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:17,319
that Disney this is kind of some cool inside baseball guests,

531
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:20,119
but the way that Disney coordinates, they make it so

532
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,920
that if Mickey Mouse is in the park somewhere like

533
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,240
in the Magic Kingdom, or he's in Tomorrowland or he's

534
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:28,759
in you know, Future Land or something, that he won't

535
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:31,319
be present in la and he won't be president in Paris,

536
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,519
and he won't be around in Disney Hong Kong either.

537
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,839
So they make it so that even if someone were

538
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,480
taking a picture, you couldn't be like, wait a minute,

539
00:28:39,559 --> 00:28:41,599
how is Mickey in these two places at one time?

540
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,519
But what happened is that once they would go into

541
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:47,519
these tunnels and leave the public view, now they can

542
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:50,319
come up in any of the other parks. But this

543
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,079
also meant it was on such a strict schedule because

544
00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:55,759
they had to coordinate with what the other characters were

545
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:57,519
doing in other parts of the world. It's not like

546
00:28:57,559 --> 00:28:59,359
you could be like, wait, wait, give me an extra five.

547
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:02,680
It doesn't work. So you'd have people running full speed

548
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,400
in these tunnels, which were completely dark. They're wearing costumes

549
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,279
you can't see well anyways, and people would be knocking

550
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:12,200
each other out and like smashing their faces together and

551
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,920
losing teeth and like getting seriously, seriously injured constantly. So

552
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,319
there were times you'd see someone erupt from these tunnels,

553
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:24,000
like bleeding and looking like something marrible had happened to them.

554
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: Okay, what you're saying is they're coordinating internationally what characters

555
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:31,759
are coming out.

556
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,839
Speaker 2: They are supposed to. Yeah, definitely Inner Park, but they're

557
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,359
supposed to be coordinating it even like internationally in some cases.

558
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,960
Because this is another weird thing about Disney is if

559
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,920
you notice, until very recently, but no one was allowed

560
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,400
to have beards or goates. They had very strict military

561
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240
style regulation. It was weird because I had just left

562
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,440
the military and went into Disney, and as I'm reading

563
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:00,160
some of the like the employee guidelines. It's like, this

564
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,759
is exactly the same. And there's a reason for that.

565
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:06,000
That's because Walt disney World. It was built by the

566
00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:09,319
same architects and the same blueprints, the guys that they

567
00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:12,440
would hire to do military bases. Because Walt kind of

568
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,240
realized how large of an operation this was, so he

569
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:19,720
had the park itself designed like a military installation.

570
00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:21,799
Speaker 4: Yep.

571
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:32,359
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so crazy. So you're working at Disneyland and

572
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:36,880
you're hearing all these rumors and you said rituals and tunnels.

573
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: I've heard that was That's one of the most common

574
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,680
ones that I think I heard from like outside people

575
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:45,799
that had never really been behind the scenes or worked

576
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:49,160
at Disney, was that they're doing all these crazy rituals

577
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:52,640
under the tunnels, right under the you know, the Magic Kingdom,

578
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,079
the Big Castle and everything. That was one of the

579
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:56,119
most common.

580
00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:01,519
Speaker 1: They would they would do that. Do you know who

581
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,240
they're rumored to have sold disney World two or is

582
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:06,319
looking into buying it.

583
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:08,279
Speaker 2: Recently?

584
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, who, Elon Musk.

585
00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:16,599
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't doubt that because he's he's kind

586
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,599
of in place right now to sell concepts and what

587
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:24,680
Disney I think has happened, because I was also there

588
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:28,319
during the tail end of the Disney renaissance, and I

589
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,160
worked there through most of like they're struggling, Like this

590
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,480
was not they didn't have a renaissance. I started there

591
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,759
at two thousand and three or four, and then I

592
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,640
left in twenty sixteen, I believe, So I worked there

593
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,960
that that whole time. But it definitely seemed that they

594
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,079
were kind of like on the downs for all of

595
00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:54,279
the actual production Disney was doing. And and the thing

596
00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:56,880
that I was thinking, I guess in my conspiratorial mind,

597
00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,920
was well, if Disney's really run by fabians, then they

598
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,799
made me don't care how this movie or the next one,

599
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,000
or even with the next fiscal year or two. Maybe

600
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,720
they don't care as much about the return and that

601
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,359
they're doing all this weird DEI or like other like

602
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,920
odd movies with crazy like morality that it's getting pushed

603
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,119
into it that didn't seem to be attracting people. But

604
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,920
that's because they're not really in the business of maybe

605
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,039
turning profit. Right now, that Disney's main business is owning nostalgia,

606
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,160
it's owning our childhoods, and it's making sure that our

607
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,160
kids also are owned by that Disney nostalgia. So if

608
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,480
someone mentions Cinderella or snow White or Pinocchio or any

609
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,720
of these open you know, like public domain sort of creations,

610
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:45,559
a lot of people's minds goes right to Disney. And

611
00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:49,160
there's something really powerful about that, because even if you

612
00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:52,000
don't know about Disney, you're going to come across a

613
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,319
lot of these sort of fairy tales, especially if you're

614
00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:57,960
in the Western world. So I think that Disney made

615
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,480
a huge, huge play to own that and continuously own

616
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,920
like chunks of not just our nostalgian childhood, but like

617
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,240
our grandparents and their grandparents.

618
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Well in European lore too.

619
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because the another weird rabbit hole, but a

620
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,279
lot of them were based on Grim fairy Tales among others.

621
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:21,400
But the Grim fairy Tales and Disney like completely changed

622
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,240
a lot of that. But also Disney, you could argue

623
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,119
they're the ones that kept these German this Germanic folklore

624
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:32,359
in fashion and even like a resurgence of it, like

625
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,960
they kind of revitalized these old Germanic tales that I

626
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,160
mean there were Grim's fairy Tales was popular. I think

627
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,200
it was as popular as the Bible for a long

628
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,599
period of time, Like it was not to be understated

629
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,680
how popular the book was. But Disney owning it again,

630
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,119
it was like the greatest if you were a Fabian,

631
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,880
the greatest investment strategy ever because now who would think

632
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,119
twice about sending your kid down in front of some

633
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,279
Disney movies for the day and you go into your

634
00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:01,240
chores whatever. Like I was be sad and I was

635
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:03,200
at friends where it was just like if they have

636
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:07,640
the Disney Clamshell library, like we're yeah, three hours.

637
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, we could quote Lion King word for word,

638
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,679
including the songs and all of the parts. I mean,

639
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:15,719
we were Disney babies for sure.

640
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily normal for any other contexts, but

641
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,719
for whatever reason, that's incredibly normalized, especially in America. But

642
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:28,000
if your kid knows a bunch of Disney movies by heart,

643
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:31,840
front to end, Uh, that's almost like a normal thing.

644
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:34,679
I mean it might be you know, a little savant going.

645
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,559
Speaker 1: On, but it would I yess, I agree. Yeah, my

646
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,039
little brother would be like tell me Lion King. You know,

647
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:43,800
if we didn't have access to the television, I just

648
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:50,239
like mos like every word. But that's so.

649
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 2: True and Lion King. I'm convinceds programming of get Ready

650
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,679
to Eat Bugs, Like, if they can teach a lion

651
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,840
that he's going to survive off bugs, then humans can

652
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:58,639
survive off bugs.

653
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: Oh, I figured out we'll line King is about. If

654
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,400
you watch the live action one, I mean the CGI,

655
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,480
not live action, but it looks realistic. It's very Skittles eerotic.

656
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,199
The undertones of when he goes out to live with

657
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,199
the Misfits, I don't know. You'll have to watch it

658
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:23,480
and tell me if you interpret that.

659
00:35:24,199 --> 00:35:26,639
Speaker 2: Well. That's probably one of the other big claims is

660
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,079
that Disney puts like sexualized imagery into all of their

661
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:33,599
things that are aimed at kids. And that's probably one

662
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:36,719
of the more nefarious, I guess claims against Disney.

663
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: Let's just say it's alternative lifestyle coded right. So, speaking

664
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:46,960
of movies, I thought it would be fun for me

665
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,400
and you to do our first, hopefully of many movie reviews.

666
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:58,320
And we do have somebody who comes on regular, Paul Hall,

667
00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:02,239
and we've done a lot of movie reviews through the

668
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:08,519
perspective of Yngian psychology. So we'd done like Fantasia a

669
00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:11,079
bunch of them, I mean mind Control too, but he's

670
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,599
expertise is just like you know, psychology and Disney history.

671
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,360
But me and Thomas are gonna do Return to Oz

672
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:24,840
because that is such a classic. I mean, we could

673
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,639
probably talk about that all day, just from the connection

674
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:34,400
to Wizard of Oz and theosophy, and it's a perfect

675
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,119
encapsulation of you know what we're talking about, mind control,

676
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:45,119
ritualistic trauma, disassociation, weird occult, all of that. So are

677
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:46,679
you ready to do Return to Oz?

678
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: I'm ready. This is actually a perfect one because it

679
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,800
touches on all the different topics.

680
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:56,039
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is nineteen eighty five, and this just

681
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:58,519
cracked me up when I thought about watching it and

682
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,840
about like the cartoon of our generation in general, I'm thinking,

683
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,880
you're about the same age as me, just by you know,

684
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,559
your stories. Why did they hate us so much?

685
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,679
Speaker 2: Why? Why did they so much?

686
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: Older and content creators hate us so much? Like what

687
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,159
is Are you Afraid at the Dark? Remember that show?

688
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 2: I loved that show? Yeah, like Thumps and arl Stein.

689
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:24,639
Speaker 1: I grew up on that Christopher Pike. But when you

690
00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:26,440
look at it through the eyes of adult and like

691
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:29,119
the Conspiracy, you know, shine a light and put all

692
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,039
these filters on and you're like, damn, they were trying

693
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:33,679
to like traumatize me and scare me and scar me.

694
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 2: And like, well a thing, especially if we talk about

695
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,800
classic Disney animation, maybe not the stuff that was made

696
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,360
for us in the eighties and nineties, but all of

697
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,480
the DNA that those came from these classic Disney movies.

698
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:54,000
One of the weirdest like juxtapositions to consider is that

699
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:58,280
a lot of these guys were doing Disney movies, got

700
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,719
called off to war, like actually had body counts, like

701
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,360
saw horrific acts of war, had you know, like took

702
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,800
lives of their own, and then came back and finished

703
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,599
the Disney movies. So there is some significant built in

704
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:16,639
trauma with all of this. And some of this this

705
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:19,920
was after the Lost Generation. Then there was the Silent Generation,

706
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:23,320
and then the Golden Generation. So this is somewhere in

707
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,599
between what you would call the Silent and the gold

708
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,400
like the Best generation, where they were all just going

709
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,679
to war constantly, and I think that that trauma gets

710
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,880
built into everything that they're working on. And then also

711
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,159
as time goes on, there's almost like a like a

712
00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:41,880
sliding scale where these kids aren't traumatized like we were

713
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,800
back in the day. So it's almost a way of

714
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,480
trying to convey that same feeling, those same crazy traumas

715
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,159
that they went through in real life and put it

716
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,719
on everything that they're putting out in terms of art.

717
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,440
And obviously kids see that and they kind of are

718
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,400
just feeling the echoes of this very real trauma that

719
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,599
was going on. And I mean the other side of

720
00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:05,039
me too, is well Fritz Springbyer would say, this is

721
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:08,519
all played like they are intentionally traumatizing you to open

722
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:11,079
you up. And I believe that part too, and I

723
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,400
think that the Disney version of that is, let's traumatize you.

724
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:17,320
I've got this theory that I don't think I've invented.

725
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,000
I'm sure someone else has come up with it, but

726
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,840
the Disney proxy, and that's the nearly every Disney movie,

727
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,079
with the exception of like five or six that we've

728
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:28,960
seen so far, dating back to the thirties, they all

729
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,119
have this very specific formula that gets more advanced over time.

730
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:37,760
But the formulas basically introduce a child and their support figures,

731
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,360
their authority figures, and then take away the authority figures.

732
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,480
The kid gets lost, they get kidnapped, the parents die,

733
00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:47,519
like something happens, and now it's just the kid by

734
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:51,039
themselves in this big, scary world and the unknown. And again,

735
00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:53,119
if you're this kid that's your parents are in the

736
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:56,000
other room doing you know, parent stuff, and you're just

737
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,920
plopped in front of this TV, you're fully engrossed in it,

738
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,679
and you become that protagonists they just lost all of

739
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,079
his parents, and you actually start going through the same trauma.

740
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,320
And the first thing that takes you out of that

741
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,400
trauma that makes you feel good again is inevitably going

742
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,199
to be a happy meal toy, or it's gonna be

743
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:14,559
on a lunchbox, or it's gonna have like a T shirt.

744
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,559
And I really think that this is the formula that

745
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,119
they had been working on all along, was to Okay,

746
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,760
we've got this trauma, and now that we know through

747
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,519
warfare and government programs that trauma can like kind of

748
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:28,920
open you up to things. Well, what do we stuff

749
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,199
in that big trauma shaped toll? Well, how about some

750
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:34,920
merch about some like nice commercialized toys and tickets to

751
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,840
Disney World and stuff. So that's kind of the answer

752
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,480
of like why do they hate us? I think it's

753
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,079
more of like they hate what they went through and

754
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:44,360
they start putting it into everything they know. And then

755
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,159
the corporate suits at Disney are like, oh this, like,

756
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:51,440
let's not stop this. We can actually capitalize on this.

757
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,360
This is good.

758
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: Well, you just told this story that I wrote in

759
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:59,719
my book that I gave you about trauma based mind

760
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,880
control and my experience with Land Before Time. It's the

761
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,599
first movie I ever no theater and his mom died

762
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,760
and I'm like, I was shook it as a little kid,

763
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,159
you know, and I had to blue.

764
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a serious one.

765
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:20,199
Speaker 1: I had to get the little foot plushy toy and

766
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,360
like love it because it was an orphan.

767
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,159
Speaker 2: Now you know, it works, it works so well. And

768
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:29,840
there's and as a kid, you've got that soft skull.

769
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,440
You don't have like the scar tissue from being conned

770
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,719
and scammed over and over again in real life. Yet

771
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,599
so yeah, you're absolutely You're like, I am actually helping

772
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:43,599
this poor defenseless sentient plush toy from the traumas of

773
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:46,480
the world. Let me like, like you're almost gonna champion

774
00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:46,920
for it.

775
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were trying to heal that wound.

776
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: So and from like a Disney standpoint, if you're the

777
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,800
ones that are checking the numbers and signing the checks,

778
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,880
like you actually hear what those balance sheets look like.

779
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,440
I mean, I'm making an assumption here because I don't

780
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,400
know all the background numbers when they were going through

781
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,360
the releases, but have to assume that they were, like, hey,

782
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,239
these movies that have some pretty significant traumas, they tend

783
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,480
to have much wider reception, maybe not even critical, but

784
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,519
more people talk about it for longer. Bambi was another

785
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:24,400
really good example of this, and that Disney realized that

786
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,719
there were the public backlash for that movie was so

787
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,480
wide Disney had to kind of walk it back, and

788
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:36,320
it took years for some ecosystems to recover because people

789
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,000
started banning you couldn't hunt deer anymore, or they would

790
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:44,360
limit it so much, not realizing that humans are basically

791
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,000
the only thing that keeps deer cold and if you

792
00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:50,840
don't call them then you get these huge overpopulation problems.

793
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:54,960
So Disney, once they released Bambi and they saw the

794
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,039
effect of that, they started getting a lot more conscious

795
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:01,599
and not just like throwing out trauma and then reaping

796
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:05,119
on it, because they have a very real reaction. The

797
00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:08,800
regular world like ecosystems were affected by a movie they

798
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:09,280
put out.

799
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,559
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned Fabians and then Bambi was also part

800
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:20,039
of like a conservation push towards the wildlife rewilding and

801
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,320
the what we have know now is like climate change

802
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:31,880
and all that. Like I am environment like cleaning up environments.

803
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,320
I'm for that, but I'm not for the fake carbon

804
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,239
tax and all that weird like climate box in.

805
00:43:38,159 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: The Hound too was very much as like the original

806
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,960
story was about urban sprawl. That was like the main

807
00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:48,599
villain in the story the book of Fox and Hound

808
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,760
was just the spread of these suburbs that were taking

809
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,039
over where the fox used to be able to just

810
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,239
live its life undisturbed. And that was another Uh, it's

811
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,920
so crazy how a lot of these go. I think

812
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,559
one of the animators or one of the guys that

813
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:07,760
was originally writing that book, he wanted to train a falcon.

814
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,239
I think it was either a hawk or falcon. I

815
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,800
think it was a falcon. And he because he was

816
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,440
trying to get into that mindset of like I'm an outdoorsman,

817
00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:17,679
now I'm a conservationist, like I'm one with nature. But

818
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,320
he didn't come from that world, so he felt bad

819
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,920
as he was raising this this hawk and kept feeding

820
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,760
it all the time because you don't want to starve it.

821
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,400
But I guess the way that you're supposed to train

822
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,039
a hawk is that you essentially starve it so that

823
00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:33,920
it only feeds when you take it out to go hunting.

824
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,880
And then after it learns that and you got a bond,

825
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,719
then you can kind of treat it like, you know,

826
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:41,840
a family member. But this the guy that was in

827
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,760
charge of this, he didn't get that concept. He kept

828
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,519
feeding it and feeding it because he didn't want to

829
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:48,800
starve it. And the first time he brings it out,

830
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,920
it's like, all right, I'm an actual you know, falconier. Now,

831
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:53,840
then you go ahead and send this bird out. It

832
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,079
flies and never comes back because it never really understood that,

833
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,079
you know, it couldn't just go in find food anywhere.

834
00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:04,400
So it's just an example of how Disney comes and

835
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,079
they'll say like, oh, let's make like a moral or

836
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:11,360
like an ecological sort of standpoint with this movie, but

837
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,239
they don't actually understand the science. It's all on emotions,

838
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,639
and again it's it's all about trauma and feeling good

839
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:19,079
and feeling bad and not so much about how things

840
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:19,599
really work.

841
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: And look, who's coming to save it from the woke

842
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,559
mind virus. So I think that's just going to be

843
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,159
another like tool in the pocket of getting the favor

844
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,239
of people.

845
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: Don't who better to do that? Right? If it's if

846
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,280
it's someone that has positioned themselves as a free speech absolutionist,

847
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,840
like Elon has kind of been positioning that, like with

848
00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:47,679
owning acts now people like please buy MSNBC or whatever

849
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,440
do the same thing. So that's the person that you

850
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,960
would need to usher in the way of thinking.

851
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Restore Disney to its glory days. And we all love

852
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:05,199
him that anyway. Returned Oz nineteen eighty five. Did you

853
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,639
notice it starts out in space?

854
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,079
Speaker 2: I don't know if I did, or I saw that

855
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:12,920
there was like a planet, but I guess I didn't

856
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,119
put two and two together on that.

857
00:46:14,679 --> 00:46:18,199
Speaker 1: So we're going to do a show upcoming with Clint

858
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:24,320
about serious But it starts out panning from space into

859
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:29,280
the window into Dorothy's bedroom. And so this is six

860
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,599
months after her classic Wizard of Oz Hail, right, which

861
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,119
a lot of people think that this is like a

862
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,719
proto socialist critique of Wall Street or I mean, that's

863
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,119
one theory that fits very well. But what we're going

864
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,960
to talk about is in regards to my control and

865
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:53,880
everything that we've been discussing. But so, yeah, you are

866
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,960
out in space and it pans into Dorothy's bedroom and

867
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,039
she sees a shooting star.

868
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:02,639
Speaker 2: Classic Disney.

869
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, do you want to start there? Do

870
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,679
you have any comments on the opening scenes?

871
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:16,519
Speaker 2: Well? I think that the Shooting Star is sort of

872
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:19,239
a perfect entry point for this too because of its

873
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,039
deep theosophical roots. So I guess the important thing to

874
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,360
start out with is eat all of the original OZ books,

875
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,199
and I think there's I'm gonna just make a number up.

876
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:30,960
I think it's like thirteen or something. There's like an

877
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,320
insane number of OZ books. And all these OZ books

878
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,519
are deeply rooted in theosophy. And I believe that Frank Baum,

879
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:42,599
even he was a contemporary, even had to think maybe

880
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:44,159
a falling out. I hope I'm not miss quoting that.

881
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,320
But with Helena Blovotsky, so this isn't just someone that

882
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,519
read a book and was like, oh cool, I'm gonna,

883
00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:53,599
you know, based some fiction on this. He was very

884
00:47:53,639 --> 00:47:58,559
deep in the theosophical movement. And part of that is

885
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:01,320
is kind of this idea that I guess Crawley popularize

886
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,400
a little bit more, but that we're all stars, and

887
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,119
that you know the concept of a star is to

888
00:48:08,199 --> 00:48:10,920
shine bright and to attract other stars, and that you

889
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,400
want to be amongst the rest of the stars. So

890
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,000
starting out on this shot of space, this is also

891
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:20,519
a mentality that I guess was had been developing for

892
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,440
the last five decades or so of like this Hollywood

893
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,119
star thing, and everyone's unique and everyone is, like you know,

894
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:30,199
capable of making these big impacts and shining. So I

895
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,559
think that that's the concept, right, every man and woman

896
00:48:33,639 --> 00:48:35,280
is a star. Yeah.

897
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:40,519
Speaker 1: So, and of course that star probably would be serious,

898
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:48,639
and she's dreaming of Oz, and then I think y'all

899
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,920
need to look up liber Oz. I'm not gonna read

900
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,159
the whole thing, but here is the sigil of Crowley's

901
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,440
liber Oz. You've seen that, right, yes, okay, so you're

902
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,159
looking at a perspective of some genitals. That is what

903
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,599
the circumpunct is, the tip of uh the spear, so

904
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:12,599
to speak. And then the little gonads and sixty six six.

905
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,320
But this is about like slavery, like mind control. The

906
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,719
slaves shall serve. Man has to live by his own law.

907
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,719
He eat what he will speak, what he will he

908
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,920
has the right to kill those who would thwart his rights.

909
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,360
And then the last line of it is called the

910
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:38,360
slaves shall serve. So here we have already connected Frank Baum,

911
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:43,119
the who they call the American Wizard, right, Theosophist. A

912
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:50,639
lot of Roleie and theosophy link up. And this is

913
00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:54,719
also gonna have some Alice in Wonderland themes. And I'm

914
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,199
sure you would agree with this. But Ozma is like

915
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,559
her holy guardian.

916
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: Angel, right, Yeah, that's a thing that I guess if

917
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,519
anyone has just seen the movies or have just kind

918
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:07,639
of paid attention to the pop culture version of this.

919
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,199
But Wizard of Oz stands for Ozma, and Ozma is

920
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,280
like the actual like not a witch, but sort of

921
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,320
like this sorceress that controls all of oz. She's like

922
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,960
a like a like a magical queen. Another thing too,

923
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,599
about the liber Oz. Even in the movie when Feruza balk,

924
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:32,039
which is another wild thing, I didn't even remember that,

925
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,320
like going back and rewatching, I had no idea that

926
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,519
that was the main character in this. But when she

927
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,679
finds this key out in the field in the mundane world,

928
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,760
which is how I kind of separate the like oz

929
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,880
from Kansas where before she goes to Oz is like

930
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,519
the mundane world and this theosophical sort of astroal world.

931
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,280
But in the mundane world she finds the Key to Oz,

932
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:55,880
and the key itself is just a letter Z inside

933
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,280
of this O, and it's kind of representing like the

934
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,440
key to Az is everything inside of the symbol.

935
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:09,639
Speaker 1: Well, this is a classic theosophical Rosicrucian idea of like

936
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:15,239
self actualization, you know, the classic like everything you possess

937
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,079
is already inside of you. Because when you watch Wizard

938
00:51:18,119 --> 00:51:22,480
of Oz, you know, the Lion is already brave, the

939
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:26,039
tin Man is already loving, and the Scarecrow is already smart.

940
00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:27,960
So you already have all of these, and the Wizard

941
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:33,519
is just the obstacle is imaginary, and in a way,

942
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:36,760
these are all parts of Dorothy too, like your journey

943
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,079
through adulthood. You have to acquire all of these qualities

944
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:45,760
and virtues. And so there's a lot of esoteric like

945
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,719
reading into just the first Oz itself. But then when

946
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,000
you watch Return to Oz, you get a more clearer

947
00:51:54,039 --> 00:51:57,519
picture of like the sorcery that's involved in it, and

948
00:51:57,559 --> 00:52:03,159
like the nefarious nature of what how they create, you know, uberminch,

949
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,599
which are like alternate people with alternate personalities.

950
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 2: What do you think the Return to Oz. Also it

951
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:17,960
shows a lot more on certain gestures and hand signs

952
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:21,360
and magical incantations and like the specific order that they

953
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,360
all have to go in. There's a magical like reanimation

954
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,519
powder that you have to say words in a certain order.

955
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,559
So it definitely it leans way more into the Colt aspect,

956
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,360
and I think critically it kind of, uh, it didn't

957
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,480
do great because it took this darker tone with everything.

958
00:52:39,519 --> 00:52:42,199
It didn't have the bright colors and the gold and

959
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:44,239
the emeralds and all that stuff on the first movie.

960
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,400
It probably confused a lot of people going into it.

961
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,880
They probably didn't had no idea what they were walking into.

962
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,280
That they basically went from like a children's adaptation to

963
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,400
a book into a Coult adaptation that there was no

964
00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:00,800
really like sweetening of it. I think that that's kind

965
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,599
of a fascinating part of it. And also you mentioned

966
00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:08,800
like the mind control aspect. The part that I really

967
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:11,159
it was like just standing out to me so strong

968
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,599
is that she literally goes to get shock treatment because

969
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:18,400
no one believes her that she was in this other place,

970
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:21,840
which I guess you'd interpret is that in the mundane world,

971
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,920
no one believes this little girl could have actually become

972
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:27,599
enlightened or had any sort of actual revelation. So now

973
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,440
she's got some sort of mental illness. And the thing

974
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,719
that they're sort of balancing in the movie, in the

975
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,320
story is that they have this new technology. They know

976
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,320
how to row energy directly into the human brain through

977
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,800
these electro convulsive techniques, and it's kind of being purported

978
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,559
as this magical they don't call it snake oil, but

979
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:51,920
it's essentially like a cure all of device. And this

980
00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:56,840
was so sort of a counter to the theosophist Because

981
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,000
of theosophists, I think, I hope I'm not a complet

982
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:02,840
wrong about this, but it was like they believe in energy,

983
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,320
but energy was almost a representation of consciousness. It wasn't

984
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,159
something to be exploited to just turn a lamp on

985
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,079
or to just like start a car or whatever. I'm

986
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:15,800
oversimplifying a little bit, but that the whole premise of

987
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,800
the beginning of Return to Oz is that these dumb,

988
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,320
mundane bumpkins are taking this electricity and they're trying to

989
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,039
just zap your brain with it. When really you need

990
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:29,079
to be absorbing it. You need to be like getting

991
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:34,119
that energy through independent study and theosophy, not through just

992
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,719
raw secular science blasting it at you.

993
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:40,519
Speaker 1: Right, So he's the charlatan who does not have the

994
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,400
proper initiation.

995
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:46,159
Speaker 2: So he's just like he's like a cow inn or something.

996
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,679
He's yeah, he's the one that that is wielding the

997
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,480
technology but doesn't understand it. And even in the very beginning,

998
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,519
they make a very specific note to show Dorothy this

999
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:00,559
machine that's eventually going to be the electro shock device,

1000
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:02,639
and he's like, look at this. It's got, you know,

1001
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,000
two eyes and a face, and like here's its little

1002
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:09,280
mouth or whatever. And I believe that that electro shock

1003
00:55:09,519 --> 00:55:13,679
therapy device ends up being TikTok because TikTok has that

1004
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,400
metallic face and everything, like that's the configuration. She ends

1005
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,719
up becoming friends with it, but she also realizes that

1006
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,960
this thing is inanimate, like it's it's just a wind

1007
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:26,559
up thing. It's a mechanical animal for like a like

1008
00:55:26,599 --> 00:55:29,920
a Cartesian sort of way of looking at it, and

1009
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,039
that kind of can like that's the deepest theosophical thing

1010
00:55:33,119 --> 00:55:36,800
was that this technology don't be tricked like this freakin

1011
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,920
moose head that I just attached to a sleigh and

1012
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,880
I sprinkled this powder dust on it. That's actually real,

1013
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,440
Like we can actually animate that because it came from

1014
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,800
some kind of organic matter. But this thing, this automaton

1015
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,559
that seems to be alive. It's the farthest thing and

1016
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:54,000
not only is it not alive and can't be animated,

1017
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:57,239
but it's kind of like the evil, Like this is

1018
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,639
the electroshock device that everyone's convinced themselves. Is this uh,

1019
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,320
this new future just kind of wild because we're still

1020
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,119
sort of doing that now, We're we're saying like, oh,

1021
00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:08,920
this new technology is going to change everything.

1022
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:11,559
Speaker 1: Well, that reminds me of scientology too, you know how

1023
00:56:11,639 --> 00:56:15,519
like you grab the e meters and they yeah, so

1024
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,679
that could be part of it. Did you notice that

1025
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,199
the chicken was the one that found the key? So

1026
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,280
talking about the mundane to the spiritual, obviously this is

1027
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:32,920
about the initiation of Dorothy and her realizing she is,

1028
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,079
you know, her higher self through Ozma. Right, we'll get there.

1029
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:42,760
I don't want to like spoil it, but where was

1030
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,400
I going with that?

1031
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,199
Speaker 2: Blini? You're talking about Balllini, her chicken that found the key.

1032
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So the chicken, you know, it's not a

1033
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,320
very smart or noble animal. It's just a chicken, but

1034
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:58,159
it uh somehow ends up being the savior of them

1035
00:56:58,159 --> 00:57:01,800
all right by laying an egg. Which you could talk

1036
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:06,119
about eggs and a cult for a long time. But

1037
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:09,880
the cool thing about this movie that actually makes it

1038
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,239
like a good movie, maybe not a children's movie, is that,

1039
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:20,760
like you said, everything from the time on Earth she

1040
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:25,719
sees it in oz So TikTok is the machine, even

1041
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,639
the women's faces when we get to momby and she's

1042
00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:31,400
switching heads. It's like women she's seen in the other world,

1043
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:36,679
even down to props, plants, like everything. And the house also,

1044
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,760
like you know how they're rebuilding the house.

1045
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's again it's six months after the first one,

1046
00:57:43,639 --> 00:57:46,199
so that they're leaning into the fact that the tornado

1047
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:47,000
took their house.

1048
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: Away, right, So that is her psyche obviously, because you

1049
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:56,519
know it's unfinished. And there's always a correlation between like

1050
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:02,199
houses and your psyche and in my control in psychiatry.

1051
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,639
So there's that. And then she comes on a whirlwind,

1052
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:13,519
which a lot of spirits throughout history and literature, like

1053
00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:17,679
angels come in whirlwinds a lot, so there's a lot

1054
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,880
being placed on Dorothy. And yeah, like you mentioned the

1055
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:29,840
foreshattering of everything, And it's interesting how she got to

1056
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,920
Oz first in the first movie by the wind and

1057
00:58:33,039 --> 00:58:35,440
the second by the water. What do you think about that?

1058
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,039
Speaker 2: Oh, I actually just put that together. Yeah, they're going

1059
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:42,360
through the different elements. You can even make an argument

1060
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:48,079
that the yellow brick road probably could have represented fire

1061
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,519
or light too, So there's probably she's probably gone through

1062
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:54,719
all the elements in Oz at this point, especially this

1063
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,239
one being the water that brings are there. I guess

1064
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,840
water would also be the more a cult of any

1065
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,199
of the elements to bring you somewhere because it has

1066
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:04,679
this unknown depth to it.

1067
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:05,239
Speaker 1: Mm hm.

1068
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,639
Speaker 2: And I really like the idea too. I definitely prescribed

1069
00:59:10,679 --> 00:59:13,519
that everything that we see of her in Oz, she's

1070
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:17,079
still in the mundane world to like everyone else, but

1071
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:19,800
she's just going through and seeing everything through these totally

1072
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:20,400
different lens.

1073
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:25,199
Speaker 1: M h. A lot of Disney movies have this in common,

1074
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,800
that the mother figure either dies in the movie or

1075
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,599
has already died. Ray, I'm sure you noticed that trend.

1076
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:34,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is that's basically what I consider that Disney

1077
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:37,519
proxy so that the kid will watch, especially if it's

1078
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:39,360
one of the first movies that you're seeing as a

1079
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:41,480
as a child and you don't have a lot of

1080
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,599
her frame of reference. It immediately puts you into a

1081
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:47,519
traumatized state, like you you no longer have a mother,

1082
00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:48,199
all right.

1083
00:59:48,119 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: Go yeah, exactly, And we're gonna see how they try

1084
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,559
to insert other This is so deep and interesting. She's

1085
01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:03,320
already an orphan and being raised by her aunt. Then

1086
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,840
her aunt tries to take her to the like you said,

1087
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,239
snake oil salesman, you know. And they even mentioned this

1088
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,480
is going to be a new century, like this is

1089
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:14,320
the year eighteen ninety nine or nineteen hundred, and like

1090
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,000
we're rolling over into like a brand new world with electricity. Right,

1091
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,920
So they're kind of on a cusp or a precipice

1092
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,119
like we are now with AI, Like we don't know

1093
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:25,440
how crazy it's going to get.

1094
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,199
Speaker 2: They started describing technology, and this, my opinion was this

1095
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:36,280
was sort of like the theosophical criticism of how the

1096
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,559
normies we're seeing electricity and they make this statement that

1097
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,840
the brain itself. He's trying to explain it to Dorothy's

1098
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,840
parents and they're saying, you know, the brain is kind

1099
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,840
of just like an electrical machine, and just like all

1100
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,639
the electrical machines that you're aware of, they can malfunction

1101
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,280
sometimes sometimes they produce excess energy, just like any other

1102
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,719
machine can. But they sell it at as well, now

1103
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,599
we've got the technology, we can control this excess of electricity.

1104
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,400
And they're kind of relaying that Dorothy talking about being

1105
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,079
in oz that's this just excess energy that's in her brain,

1106
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,199
and they're going to quell that. You know, they're going

1107
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,440
to figure out a way to stop the excess energy,

1108
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,679
and this is the wonders of technology, right.

1109
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: But it comes to find out that this is actually

1110
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,039
like a house of horrors that you know, Ozma is

1111
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:35,480
saving her from the evil quack guy because well, you

1112
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:37,239
can read it in one way. When they flip the

1113
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,480
switch and the lightning strikes, it doesn't work right. So

1114
01:01:41,639 --> 01:01:45,519
on one level of interprening it, you could say that

1115
01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:48,239
everything happened that happened after that was a part of

1116
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,400
a disassociation or you know, a trip of her like

1117
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,280
it actually did work, but if you watch the movie closely,

1118
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,400
that doesn't make sense. So she actually does manage to escape,

1119
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:01,320
and that makes.

1120
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: Oz real, right, and it's also worth pointing out that

1121
01:02:08,039 --> 01:02:11,679
they're talking about how they've gained control over this excess

1122
01:02:11,719 --> 01:02:15,280
of energy their words in the movie. Yet that lightning

1123
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,480
strike causes such an excess of electricity that their technology

1124
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:23,039
no longer works. So it sort of proves that they're

1125
01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:25,199
on the wrong path, like they don't actually understand this

1126
01:02:25,239 --> 01:02:27,440
technology that they claim to be masters of.

1127
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: So she and it's a pretty intense scene. I mean,

1128
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:40,239
they strap her down to the gurney and put the

1129
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,079
things on her head, and I'm sure you've seen this

1130
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:46,760
classic picture of the mp ultright, looks very similar, right.

1131
01:02:46,679 --> 01:02:49,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, the leather wrap on the head and like, yeah,

1132
01:02:49,519 --> 01:02:52,880
it's almost like the same haircut going on. Yes, it

1133
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,760
definitely had a very odd look to It is also

1134
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,760
a Halloween movie. It literally takes place during Halloween, I believe,

1135
01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:05,400
because they note that a few times. And then also

1136
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:10,559
while that's happening, she can hear this moaning happening, and

1137
01:03:10,599 --> 01:03:13,960
she's asking Ozma, like, what are those noises, and she said, well,

1138
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,840
those are basically the people that did go through the

1139
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,400
electro convulsive therapy and now they lock them in the

1140
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,880
basement and they're basically mechanical animals. They're basically like little

1141
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,199
tiktoks running around down there.

1142
01:03:26,119 --> 01:03:31,719
Speaker 1: Did you notice that the evil lady is the same

1143
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,039
lady from Willow?

1144
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: I did not notice that, No, I love the Willow growing.

1145
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,239
Speaker 1: Up too, She's the evil queen from Willow. So that

1146
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,000
just made it even more creepier. And so they have

1147
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:47,960
to escape her, and they float away, and somehow she

1148
01:03:48,119 --> 01:03:53,920
loses Ozma or Ozma disappears, and she washes up back

1149
01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:57,039
in oz But now she has to get there a

1150
01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:59,840
different way, so she has across the desert and then

1151
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:02,880
you know the field, and this is where you start

1152
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,039
seeing the flashbacks. So she comes upon a lunch pale

1153
01:04:06,039 --> 01:04:09,639
tree and it looks just like the lunch pail that

1154
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:14,320
her aunt em had given her, because why did Auntie

1155
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,000
Em just drop her off at these strangers house for

1156
01:04:17,079 --> 01:04:23,239
the whole day. So she's being abandoned several times, you know,

1157
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:28,079
not like necessary maliciously, but through circumstance, like she's being

1158
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:32,280
put in situations that probably shouldn't leave your kid alone

1159
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,519
with no one, like a weird elector shock doctor of

1160
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:37,360
the well.

1161
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: They also, her parents have no idea what to do

1162
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,360
with her, because now they've got this sort of enlightened

1163
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,719
indigo child living with them. And this is another thing.

1164
01:04:46,639 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: That's they're muggles still.

1165
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 2: They're muggle. They're absolutely not only are they muggles, but

1166
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,280
they are such muggles that the main reason that they

1167
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,440
even bring Dorothy here isn't necessarily that they're concerned for

1168
01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:01,360
her mental health. The mom makes a very explicit statement,

1169
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,079
She's like, you've been staying up late, like you can't

1170
01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:06,519
get to sleep, and now you can't help on the farm.

1171
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:08,840
And it was that you can't help us in our

1172
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:12,039
mundane tasks on this mundane world. So now we have

1173
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:14,960
to fix you. We have to whatever weird enlightenment stuff

1174
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:19,280
you got going on, it's affecting your ability to just

1175
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:22,159
work on these fields with us. And that was the

1176
01:05:22,199 --> 01:05:22,800
real issue.

1177
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:26,199
Speaker 5: So you can almost you're of no use to me anymore,

1178
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,280
because right, like stop with all the philosophy and the theosophy, like,

1179
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,079
let's let's fix you so that you don't care about

1180
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:35,559
these otherworldly things anymore and you just come back and

1181
01:05:35,559 --> 01:05:36,239
do farm work.

1182
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:40,239
Speaker 2: So almost that they weren't trying to fix her because

1183
01:05:40,239 --> 01:05:43,360
they were concerned they were trying to zap any of

1184
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,760
this enlightenment, right, back out of her so that she

1185
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,039
could go back to being a muggle.

1186
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: Oh good point. So she comes upon her old house

1187
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:57,920
that brought her there, which is her old mind, right,

1188
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,400
her old self. She's like, I used to live here,

1189
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,360
but I don't live there anymore. So she shed this

1190
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:08,960
you know, persona, and she's like pupating into a new

1191
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:17,199
like you said, initiate on this magical journey towards what

1192
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:19,239
are they called ascended masters.

1193
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,639
Speaker 2: Right, the theosophical idea that once you get to like

1194
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:26,360
a certain checkpoint, you get to go and like live

1195
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,639
in the skies for a while and I'll and like

1196
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:32,679
you said, she's almost going through a metamorphosis from a

1197
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:35,519
pupa because the first thing that she does after she

1198
01:06:35,639 --> 01:06:39,039
leaves that deadly desert which just absorbs all water if

1199
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:41,840
you touch it, is she finds that tree and she

1200
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,719
has to pick a ripe one because there's green lunch

1201
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,360
pails and then there's red lunch pails, so she picks

1202
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,920
the red lunch pail. That kind of does show that

1203
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:53,239
she's ripened, like she's already been here before, She's already

1204
01:06:53,239 --> 01:06:55,920
shed the old one, so she's not green now. Now

1205
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,960
she's like ready to open the real meal to get

1206
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,039
her like Susten and for her second adventure through this.

1207
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,719
Speaker 1: And this is where you are introduced to the the

1208
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,320
minions of the Nome King, who are super creepy and

1209
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:19,119
they like morph no no, the guy step morphed through

1210
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:21,119
the rocks and spy on you.

1211
01:07:20,719 --> 01:07:23,559
Speaker 2: Oh yes, the little eyeballs that start poking out of

1212
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:24,079
the rocks.

1213
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this uh I learned about in Fritz Springer

1214
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:36,480
who in relation to like a Britney Spears video. So

1215
01:07:36,519 --> 01:07:41,400
what they'll say is that items can hear you and

1216
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,679
they report back to your handlers. So you better watch

1217
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:45,239
what you say and do at all times because we're

1218
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:48,519
watching you, right. So this one.

1219
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 2: Also made me think of the Tunnel and Labyrinth where

1220
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,719
she goes down and it's all like the hands that

1221
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,599
are all there. Yeah. Yeah, even if you feel like

1222
01:07:57,679 --> 01:08:01,920
you're abandoned in this lost world, there's someone there. But

1223
01:08:02,159 --> 01:08:04,639
it's not someone that make you feel better. It's someone

1224
01:08:04,679 --> 01:08:07,719
that's sort of keeping tabs on you and reporting back.

1225
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: And the Nome King he's obviously the elemental Earth because

1226
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:17,720
he's all rocks, right, and he was he the same

1227
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,119
guy that played the doctor because a lot of the

1228
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:25,239
people from the real world show up in but I didn't.

1229
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,920
I couldn't notice because he had all grief. I should

1230
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,039
have looked at up being.

1231
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,079
Speaker 2: In professional that's a good question. I don't know if

1232
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:33,920
he was, but yeah, if you can look it up

1233
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,000
and find out for sure. But he the Rock King.

1234
01:08:38,159 --> 01:08:40,680
This one also made me think of snow White all

1235
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:45,000
over again, because even this this Gnome King that lives

1236
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:47,800
and kind of like created from rocks and controls all

1237
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,960
these other like rock sort of entities, he has this

1238
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,920
thing that he's complaining about that all these gems that

1239
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,800
he's got in his world and these humans keep coming

1240
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,199
and taking his gems away. That the people of Oz

1241
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,399
were taking the gem this is where all the Emeralds

1242
01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:05,560
from the Emerald Cities came from. Is that they were

1243
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:10,439
removing it from him. And the cult premise of snow White,

1244
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,680
which gets into sort of like hermetic stories, was that

1245
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,479
they were making an exchange. That these earth elementals which

1246
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,640
were the gnomes again Nome King, but the dwarfs in

1247
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,039
Snow White are Earth elementals, and they're the ones that

1248
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:29,319
can go into the dark and they can retrieve these gems,

1249
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,199
but that they have no use for these gems because

1250
01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:35,079
they don't emit any light themselves, and it's snow White

1251
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,119
that is emitting the light, and the concept being that

1252
01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:42,399
the light is this human consciousness. So the Earth elementals

1253
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:47,039
have this equal exchange where snow White is teaching them things.

1254
01:09:47,079 --> 01:09:48,800
Here's how to cook and clean, here's how to sing

1255
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,960
and dance, things that they would never have any interaction with,

1256
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:54,520
and in exchange for that, it's like, Okay, well, here's

1257
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,960
the gems from our world. You're giving us gems from

1258
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,520
your world. But in this movie, the Nome King he's

1259
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,600
kind of complaining about like an imbalance here where that

1260
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:08,520
the humans and all the entities of Oz are taking

1261
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,319
the gems from this Earth realm, but they're not necessarily

1262
01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:15,560
giving anything back. They're not bestowing knowledge or any human

1263
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,960
consciousness in return, and that's what's created this and now

1264
01:10:19,199 --> 01:10:22,159
the kind of pendulum is swinging in this movie Return

1265
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:24,880
to Oz. Now the Nome King has taken over. He's

1266
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,119
the one that rules all of Oz. Everything's been turned

1267
01:10:27,119 --> 01:10:31,439
to stone now, everything's inanimate, everything.

1268
01:10:31,079 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 1: Is of his element now. And he thinks that the

1269
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,680
Emerald City was stolen from.

1270
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 2: His realm, right, all the gems that was used to

1271
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,279
power them and give them all their technology. Everything it

1272
01:10:49,399 --> 01:10:52,079
was stolen in that no one gave him an equal

1273
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,119
share back. He didn't have a snow White to teach

1274
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,119
him how to dance and sing. They were just taking

1275
01:10:57,159 --> 01:11:00,039
the stuff and building the city out of it. And

1276
01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:02,800
even if you go and rewatch the first Wizard of

1277
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,520
Oz movie, it's kind of like a secret society. Like

1278
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:08,000
even if you know where the Emerald City is, you've

1279
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,840
got to knock three times, you've got to give the

1280
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:14,279
secret password in order before you're admitted. So they're kind

1281
01:11:14,319 --> 01:11:17,960
of not taking the gems from the world and then

1282
01:11:18,079 --> 01:11:21,560
like sharing the light and sharing consciousness, they're keeping it

1283
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,920
for themselves and keeping it hidden. So I think that

1284
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,319
the Nome King is kind of like the exact opposite

1285
01:11:27,319 --> 01:11:28,600
of that. He's like, well, if you guys are going

1286
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,359
to create a secret society and hord this for yourselves,

1287
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,680
I'm taking it all back and I'm turning everyone to stone.

1288
01:11:37,279 --> 01:11:40,239
Speaker 1: And that's also kind of a reference to like the Himalayas,

1289
01:11:40,279 --> 01:11:45,000
which they believe a lot of their you know, demigods

1290
01:11:45,119 --> 01:11:48,720
or gods or hidden masters reside in or at least

1291
01:11:49,119 --> 01:11:52,079
take up residence for thousands of years right, So inside

1292
01:11:52,119 --> 01:11:55,119
of the walls of the Himalayas, and that's expeditions they

1293
01:11:55,159 --> 01:11:57,600
would go to Tibet. I'm sure you've heard of Nicholas

1294
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,840
Roik and all of that, So that all fits in

1295
01:12:02,079 --> 01:12:05,039
perfectly with the Oz the os of.

1296
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,199
Speaker 2: Right. I didn't even put that together either, that's perfect

1297
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,479
the Yeah.

1298
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: So again Dorothy has to do some kind of David

1299
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:23,239
and Goliath, uh, you know, stand up to an impossible foe,

1300
01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:26,000
which the wizard in the first one was just the

1301
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:30,680
illusion of obstacles because you know you're a magician.

1302
01:12:31,039 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. All she had to do in the first

1303
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:39,119
movie was get the courage to challenge the authority, and

1304
01:12:39,159 --> 01:12:41,960
that was and then just by challenging the authority or

1305
01:12:42,039 --> 01:12:45,880
questioning it directly, she kind of overcame it. And this

1306
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,399
one it's a little bit more dire, like there's actual

1307
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,399
people that have lost their heads, and there's people that

1308
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,479
have physically changed and it's like a barren wasteland. So

1309
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,199
the threat in this one is a lot more explicit.

1310
01:12:59,359 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: So she has just come back to Oz and she's

1311
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,199
found the house in disrepair and the yellow Bick road

1312
01:13:05,319 --> 01:13:09,640
is all busted up, and it's only been six months

1313
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,720
for her, but it's been years and years and years for.

1314
01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 2: Oz, right, but she's still too young because when she

1315
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:22,439
runs into Princess Momby, which is weird. I wonder if

1316
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,680
it was supposed to sound like mommy or like mom

1317
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:30,600
but Princess mom Yeah, she takes she finds Dorothy and

1318
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:33,800
she's she wants to take her for her head, but

1319
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,600
she mentions that her head's too small, Like, you're too young.

1320
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:38,600
Your head's too small. It won't fit on my head yet.

1321
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,279
So you still have like some gestation apparently to go through.

1322
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,359
But I'm going to put you in this tower, and

1323
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:46,199
then if I keep you in the tower long enough,

1324
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,000
then your head will be compatible with the rest of

1325
01:13:49,039 --> 01:13:52,520
my heads. That all feels very occult too.

1326
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: Mine can of initiation to go through.

1327
01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:58,319
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, like you have to be molded. You have

1328
01:13:58,359 --> 01:14:00,479
to be sort of like chipped away and turned into

1329
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,720
this ashlar stone before we can put you into the building.

1330
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, she makes it too past the wheelers, which

1331
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,640
I mean, why do you hate kids? Okay, that's that's terrifying,

1332
01:14:12,399 --> 01:14:17,399
and meets TikTok and gets to Momby, and Mommby throws

1333
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:23,359
her in the tower and she meets Jack the pumpkin head,

1334
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:30,039
which if you notice when the snake oil salesman's lady

1335
01:14:30,079 --> 01:14:31,960
assistant put her in the room, is like, here, take

1336
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,720
a nap, And she locked her in that dingy room,

1337
01:14:35,319 --> 01:14:37,479
right when she hasn't slept for six months? Why she

1338
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,039
could to take a nap in this weird ass place.

1339
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,199
And there's like a pumpkin on the table.

1340
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 2: So that's Jack in because it's Halloween.

1341
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jack wakes up and he thinks that she's

1342
01:14:53,159 --> 01:14:58,399
the mom she he thinks Dorothy is his mom, when

1343
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,479
it was actually Ozma. But Dorothy and Ozma are one,

1344
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:07,560
so he's also got a mommy abandonment type issues, right.

1345
01:15:08,039 --> 01:15:13,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dorothy's sort of the physical manifestation of Ozma. So

1346
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:16,760
I guess in a rosicrucion way, which is easy to

1347
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,239
conflate Rosicrucianism and you know, theosophical ideals, It kind of

1348
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,199
they play in the same sandbox and they derive some

1349
01:15:24,279 --> 01:15:27,119
of the same things. But in the idea of Rosicrucianism

1350
01:15:27,239 --> 01:15:31,039
being that you can have this consciousness that has no

1351
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:34,159
material density, but once it gets close enough to the

1352
01:15:34,319 --> 01:15:39,359
a mundane world of some kind, the material starts building itself.

1353
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:42,800
Around this consciousness like a shell. The best analogy, I

1354
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,039
think this came from a Manly Palmer Hall book, but

1355
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,840
he has this analogy where if you imagine that like

1356
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:53,279
your soul or consciousness is like your hand and you

1357
01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:55,800
keep putting gloves on it, like the first glove is

1358
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,600
when you enter a new material world and you put

1359
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,439
another glove on as you get close to the ground.

1360
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,800
At a certain point you've got like a hundred gloves

1361
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,039
on your hand where you can't really even feel your

1362
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:08,760
hand anymore. It's just this big numb like massive material.

1363
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:12,680
And that's sort of Dorothy. Dorothy is the version of

1364
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:14,800
Ozma that's got all these gloves on so that she

1365
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,399
can exist in the mundane world. But really it's the

1366
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:18,079
same person.

1367
01:16:18,399 --> 01:16:27,159
Speaker 1: Mm hm. So interesting. So I don't like the Gump.

1368
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:30,079
What do you make of him? Like, what is he

1369
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,560
in this esoteric? Because I couldn't figure out what he's

1370
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:34,600
supposed to represent.

1371
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:38,600
Speaker 2: I have to go out on a limb a little

1372
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,039
bit on this one. But they describe Gump as a

1373
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:46,920
cross between an elk and a goat. But to me,

1374
01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:49,640
it's like this is the goat head. If you were

1375
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,000
in the theosophy, really big You probably are familiar with

1376
01:16:53,079 --> 01:16:57,000
the history of magic and elfhis Levey's work, right, So

1377
01:16:57,119 --> 01:16:59,079
this is the goat of Mendis. I think this is

1378
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:04,439
that goat head which represents sort of profane magic and

1379
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,199
what do What's the thing that they do with Gump

1380
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,920
is they animate it. They strap it to this big

1381
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:11,640
sleigh and they put all these things on it, and

1382
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,560
then she sprinkles the powder of life on it. And

1383
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,279
this is the first time they have to do a

1384
01:17:16,359 --> 01:17:20,680
legitimate incantation where they where she says uh we aw

1385
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:24,520
tia pa, you have to say in that order, yeah,

1386
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,920
we a pia tiya. And in the book they go

1387
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:31,039
a step further and they state that when you say

1388
01:17:31,079 --> 01:17:34,199
those words, the first word, you have to raise your

1389
01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:37,279
left hand with your little finger up when you say

1390
01:17:37,319 --> 01:17:39,479
we are. Then you have to raise your right hand

1391
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,079
with your thumb up, saying tia, and then you have

1392
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:45,439
to use both hands with all your fingers spread out

1393
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:49,079
and say pa. So it's like left hand, right hand,

1394
01:17:49,079 --> 01:17:52,239
both hands like. It's not just they sprinkle powder on it,

1395
01:17:52,279 --> 01:17:55,399
which is more typical classic Disney. You put a little

1396
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:57,760
magic powder on it, the thing flies. You put magic powder,

1397
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,199
it comes back to life. And this month it's like, no, no,

1398
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:01,159
there's more to it.

1399
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:03,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tinkerbell Ferry does.

1400
01:18:03,319 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: Right right well, and that one you also have to clap,

1401
01:18:06,199 --> 01:18:09,680
But yeah, this one is the most This one actually

1402
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,640
feels like Dorothy is reading these instructions out of a

1403
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,439
grimoire versus it's just Disney magic.

1404
01:18:16,079 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 6: Well, is he like a monculus gump Homegumpulus like all

1405
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,560
parts of different things mished together?

1406
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,119
Speaker 2: I would say Gola maybe closer to Yeah, okay, gump right,

1407
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,399
like an amalgamation of different body parts that will have

1408
01:18:33,399 --> 01:18:37,560
been like forced together, and he can fly. And and

1409
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:41,319
that was the other thing too, That gump is, I

1410
01:18:41,359 --> 01:18:45,560
guess more real than TikTok is the weird little robot guy,

1411
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:52,039
because TikTok is not an animate object. It's it's completely inanimate,

1412
01:18:52,079 --> 01:18:55,119
and that it's it's uh, you know, mechanical, doesn't have

1413
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:59,279
any organic material to it. So I wonder if if

1414
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:01,720
you put the power of life on TikTok if anything

1415
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:05,039
would have happened, or if it only worked for because

1416
01:19:05,039 --> 01:19:07,399
she has to keep winding TikTok God. But it's like

1417
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:09,760
if you've got magic powder that just makes things come

1418
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,199
to life, you don't got to wind this guy up anymore.

1419
01:19:12,399 --> 01:19:15,920
I feel like that was another nod to like technology

1420
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:20,319
is not the same as like real organic living life,

1421
01:19:20,359 --> 01:19:24,159
even if it's already dead. Necromancy is more powerful than

1422
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:24,960
the technology.

1423
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:32,119
Speaker 1: Well, he even mentions he's proud of his lifelessness, right.

1424
01:19:32,119 --> 01:19:35,039
Speaker 2: Like yeah, he's he's like, uh, he's glad that he's

1425
01:19:35,039 --> 01:19:37,520
gon'ta have to go through these trials and tribulations that

1426
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,000
Dorothy is. He he can just not be wound up

1427
01:19:40,039 --> 01:19:42,319
and go to sleep for a thousand years and it's

1428
01:19:42,359 --> 01:19:43,239
all the same to him.

1429
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't care, and that's what saved him in the end, right,

1430
01:19:46,039 --> 01:19:50,000
because he wasn't turned into an object because he didn't

1431
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,239
have life so right, so.

1432
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:54,560
Speaker 2: He couldn't be converted into like one of these green

1433
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:59,760
items in this weird memory palace m hm to.

1434
01:20:00,399 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: Honestly, I didn't like any of her companions in this.

1435
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,720
I guess the chicken was okay because it was sassy, but.

1436
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 2: Well that was Toto that she needed a Toto, so

1437
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,720
that kind of filled that role for her, And.

1438
01:20:14,279 --> 01:20:17,039
Speaker 1: I just my OCD did not like the falling apartness

1439
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:19,760
of the gump and the jack just like put that

1440
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:21,319
thing out of its miseries falling apart.

1441
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,399
Speaker 2: You know, the part that was really annoying me the

1442
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:26,720
most out of all of it was the face of

1443
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:31,119
the scarecrow when they finally meet up with the scarecrow. Yes,

1444
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,039
I couldn't under with the amount of budget that went

1445
01:20:35,079 --> 01:20:39,840
into this movie, I can't understand why the scarecrow had this.

1446
01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:42,079
It looks like they went the kmart on the way

1447
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:44,720
to you know, filming the scene.

1448
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 1: And they just scarecrow. Was weird?

1449
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,560
Speaker 2: I did, right, Yeah, I didn't. I really don't understand

1450
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,800
what the the artistic direction was for that scarecrow.

1451
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,319
Speaker 1: That was so bad. And it didn't even have like

1452
01:21:00,359 --> 01:21:02,000
you just want to punch it in the face, you

1453
01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:04,479
know what. It looked like Raggedy Ann or Andy Doll,

1454
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:05,520
remember that, right.

1455
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 2: It couldn't emote. It just had one facial expression, which

1456
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:09,880
is odd.

1457
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: It was terrible.

1458
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 2: There was another thing too, that was in the book

1459
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,399
that they didn't they didn't point out in the movie.

1460
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:19,760
Maybe it would have been a little bit too morbid.

1461
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:24,399
But when Dorothy first comes across those headless sculptures, which

1462
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,239
we find out later those the bodies to the women

1463
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,479
that Princess Mumby has collected, that like she puts all

1464
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:34,640
their heads on, but they also walk by the tin Man,

1465
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,439
and in the book of the Return to Oz, they

1466
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,680
have this whole line where the tin Man keeps cutting

1467
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,319
parts of his body off and replacing them with tin,

1468
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,800
so it was like an actual person. It keeps like

1469
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:53,039
chopping himself up and replacing it, almost like this weird

1470
01:21:53,079 --> 01:21:57,039
ship of theseus angle. But it also plays into this

1471
01:21:57,239 --> 01:22:02,760
weird cybernetic transhumanist idea of the electro shock and the

1472
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,640
Wheelers infusing with technology. The tin Man, I think, represented

1473
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,279
that as the worst way that it can go, and

1474
01:22:09,319 --> 01:22:12,399
that's why he needed the heart in the original book,

1475
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:15,359
was because he he went so far down that path

1476
01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:18,079
of transhumanism that he needed to walk it back a

1477
01:22:18,079 --> 01:22:18,479
little bit.

1478
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:22,079
Speaker 1: Do you think the Wheelers were the gurney that strapped

1479
01:22:22,079 --> 01:22:22,479
her down?

1480
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:27,520
Speaker 2: Because oh, I didn't take that until just now. Yeah. Absolutely,

1481
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,560
I mean and also the obvious too is that they

1482
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,760
are the new flying monkeys, because you have to have

1483
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:36,119
like the minions that fly around. But yeah, it makes

1484
01:22:36,159 --> 01:22:40,840
sense that they are the gurneys. Okay, I love that.

1485
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:41,439
That's awesome.

1486
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,319
Speaker 1: Why do you make of Well, so she gets to

1487
01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:48,600
the Nome King and she you know, there's always a deal,

1488
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,520
like a wager. You know, Villain's always loved to bet.

1489
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:57,399
And why do you think it was the egg that

1490
01:22:58,319 --> 01:22:59,159
poisoned him.

1491
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 2: In the end, Well, the egg represents life, or more importantly,

1492
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,880
the potential to create life, and this is something that

1493
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,520
the Nome King has no business in this world. He's

1494
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:15,479
just rocks and inanimate objects. And these Earth elementals and

1495
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:20,199
the Earth elementals are different than like this, life giving,

1496
01:23:20,239 --> 01:23:23,800
like this is the version of the snow white, like

1497
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:27,239
this is the human element but unlike the Earth elementals

1498
01:23:27,239 --> 01:23:29,399
and snow White and the ones that are making these exchanges,

1499
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,760
he's turned off to the concept of consciousness and it's

1500
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:36,680
almost like the antithesis of him. And in fact, I

1501
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,119
think they cite that this is poison to him. At

1502
01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:41,960
least in the book they mentioned that eggs are poison

1503
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:45,239
and the eggs are chickens are not allowed anywhere. So, yeah,

1504
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,840
it would make sense in a theosophical sense that something

1505
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:52,640
capable of creating life would be the ultimate victor over

1506
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:54,640
something that is completely inanimate.

1507
01:23:55,119 --> 01:23:57,119
Speaker 1: Also a feminine principle.

1508
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:10,119
Speaker 2: Too, absolutely, Yeah.

1509
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:12,199
Speaker 1: So the egg overcomes the Nome King. What do you

1510
01:24:12,199 --> 01:24:14,399
make of the ruby slippers real fast. I'm starting to

1511
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:16,239
like wind out because I'm still sick. But I could

1512
01:24:16,239 --> 01:24:17,399
talk about this all day.

1513
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:22,319
Speaker 2: But well, I think the the slippers being read was

1514
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:25,520
a device of the movies, and I think in the

1515
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,760
books they weren't ruby slippers. There were some other color

1516
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:31,840
where they's silver or something. I can't remember what color

1517
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:36,920
they were. But it's it's interesting too because that gets continued,

1518
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,840
uh like in the movie version as this thing act

1519
01:24:41,239 --> 01:24:43,319
I guess in a in a very meta way, right

1520
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:48,840
the uh as this theosophical story literally enters the mundane

1521
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:52,319
world through film, and like actual actors acting out in

1522
01:24:52,399 --> 01:24:55,760
mundane film sets, they do sort of change some of

1523
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,359
the different elements. So this is almost like that corruption

1524
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,680
that gets in introduced when you try and take a

1525
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,720
theosophical concept and manifest it and explain in a different way.

1526
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:09,479
So these are like the little reverberations because it's it's

1527
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,520
odd that the ruby slippers end up being a focal point,

1528
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,600
Like it's almost impossible to talk about Wizard of Oz

1529
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:19,319
and not conjure up this idea of the ruby red slippers,

1530
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:24,439
which in itself is almost like this exoteric red herring

1531
01:25:25,359 --> 01:25:27,640
where you know, focus on the slippers don't look at

1532
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:28,920
all this the point.

1533
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:32,560
Speaker 1: That's just a little misdirection.

1534
01:25:33,399 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 2: That's how I see it.

1535
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so everything is restored, but she wants to

1536
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:46,039
be in both places at the same time at the end,

1537
01:25:47,039 --> 01:25:49,039
and she makes that comment like, I wish.

1538
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 1: I could live here and there, but apparently that's impossible.

1539
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:57,359
Speaker 2: Well only because the mundane world can't accept her for

1540
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:59,800
doing that. I think she realizes that she could live

1541
01:26:00,039 --> 01:26:03,680
both places, but she'd probably find herself and strap down

1542
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:07,039
on a gurney uh frequently, so that, yeah, you have

1543
01:26:07,119 --> 01:26:09,640
to make the decision between the two until she.

1544
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,119
Speaker 1: Gets like a little coven of her own or some

1545
01:26:12,279 --> 01:26:16,319
kind of you know, like she can't live in the

1546
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:21,520
Muggle world. But if she finds other Theosophists or star seeds, right.

1547
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:25,279
Speaker 2: Then Ydigo children, Yeah, yeah.

1548
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:31,159
Speaker 1: Then they can go to Mars. So Princess Ozma comes

1549
01:26:31,159 --> 01:26:33,760
out of the mirror. That's kind of the obvious uh

1550
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:38,560
part where you're realizing that this is another higher form

1551
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:39,439
of Dorothy.

1552
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 2: Right right, literally her just in a different realm.

1553
01:26:44,119 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she goes back home and she wakes up

1554
01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:52,960
after the flood, you know, so she returns again through

1555
01:26:53,039 --> 01:26:57,039
the waterway and she wakes up on the sand after

1556
01:26:57,079 --> 01:27:01,319
the flood, and the story was that lightning struck the

1557
01:27:01,319 --> 01:27:05,840
clinic and the guy, the doctor, died because he's trying

1558
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,560
to save the machines instead of get out of the fire.

1559
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:12,880
What do you make of that? So he's clinging to

1560
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:18,359
his technology and it was his demise in the end, right.

1561
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 2: Right, And again, just like the machine malfunction because it

1562
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,319
got this excess of energy, he also gets an excess

1563
01:27:26,359 --> 01:27:32,159
of energy which causes him to malfunction permanently. It's the ultimates.

1564
01:27:32,359 --> 01:27:37,680
I guess this is the strongest theosophical I guess, like

1565
01:27:38,079 --> 01:27:40,319
lesson that they're teaching you is that if you put

1566
01:27:40,319 --> 01:27:43,319
all your energy into the technology, then it's going to

1567
01:27:43,399 --> 01:27:46,159
kill you, Like that's going to be your demise. Whereas

1568
01:27:46,279 --> 01:27:49,399
Dorothy is the one that is still operating with this

1569
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,119
extra energy, but she's applying it in these you know,

1570
01:27:52,239 --> 01:27:54,920
occult and sort of arcane ways and not in the

1571
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:55,720
mundane world.

1572
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:02,520
Speaker 1: Well, was there anything that you didn't get to in

1573
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:06,159
your great review of Return Oz? So it's like number

1574
01:28:06,199 --> 01:28:08,720
one in a cult Disney on your playlist? Right, Return

1575
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:09,199
to Oz.

1576
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:12,119
Speaker 2: It was the most recent one that we had done. Yeah,

1577
01:28:12,119 --> 01:28:14,439
And our and we did like a dark Disney series

1578
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:18,199
where we just did the scariest, purportedly the scariest of

1579
01:28:18,239 --> 01:28:20,199
all of the Disney movies that were meant to be

1580
01:28:20,359 --> 01:28:20,680
like that.

1581
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:21,560
Speaker 1: What are those?

1582
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:27,359
Speaker 2: It was Return to Oz, the Black Hole, Watcher in

1583
01:28:27,399 --> 01:28:30,199
the Woods, and what was the other one that we

1584
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:32,600
were going to talk about something something wicked?

1585
01:28:33,119 --> 01:28:34,520
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, we'll get there, all right.

1586
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 2: And these ones were I mean, this one being a

1587
01:28:38,039 --> 01:28:41,199
Halloween movie, I think they definitely leaned into some of

1588
01:28:41,239 --> 01:28:44,880
the creepier aspects of it. The one that was the

1589
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:47,520
most shocking to hear the reason why the movie existed

1590
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:51,359
was Watcher in the Woods and this was Disney saw

1591
01:28:51,399 --> 01:28:55,399
how commercially successful The Exorcist was and they were like,

1592
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:58,000
we want to do that, Like we want we want

1593
01:28:58,039 --> 01:28:58,760
some of that action.

1594
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: Who was some demon possession action? So was there any

1595
01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:06,840
like things that stuck out to you that you wanted

1596
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,199
to get to on Return to Oz?

1597
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there was a weird tangent that I ended

1598
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,520
up going down. I was reading more about the the

1599
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,479
actual history of the Nome King, because in the books,

1600
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:22,199
there's not just one Nome King, there's a whole line

1601
01:29:22,239 --> 01:29:25,079
of Nome King that like supersede each other and they've

1602
01:29:25,119 --> 01:29:29,399
got different names and stuff. But one of these Gnome Kings,

1603
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:33,239
it was sort of conflated with Santa Claus, like like

1604
01:29:33,399 --> 01:29:36,640
there was an actual Santa Claus story by Frank Baum

1605
01:29:37,239 --> 01:29:41,479
and his reindeer were wheelers. So there's a that that

1606
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:43,640
seems like an incredible I don't think it's ever been

1607
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:46,720
adapted into a movie, but that feels like a rabbit hole.

1608
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,319
Maybe I'd like to go down for Christmas or something like.

1609
01:29:49,359 --> 01:29:53,359
How like, what is the connection between Santa Claus being

1610
01:29:53,399 --> 01:29:56,159
driven around by these crazy wheelers which might be these

1611
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,920
Gurney's you know, represented by Gurneys in the Sane Asylum.

1612
01:30:00,279 --> 01:30:03,800
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, do you know there's a movie

1613
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:06,560
called Nome King Disney movie. Me and Paul talked about it.

1614
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:10,680
It's a weird one about a tycoon going to the

1615
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,359
Redwoods and he finds the Gnomes. Have you heard of

1616
01:30:13,399 --> 01:30:14,760
that one?

1617
01:30:15,279 --> 01:30:18,680
Speaker 2: I've heard of Red Gnome or no Mobile, But no,

1618
01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:22,199
is that what you're talking about? Nomobilemobile? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Noma.

1619
01:30:22,279 --> 01:30:23,520
It's about Bohemian grove.

1620
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1621
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. That movie is a is an absolute fever dream

1622
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,840
and it's it is. Yeah, if we we we covered

1623
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:34,399
that one, I can't. I think we did it in

1624
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:37,159
our Bed Knobs and Broomsticks movie because I think it

1625
01:30:37,319 --> 01:30:39,560
featured it was either the same two kids from that

1626
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,520
or it was the same two kids from Mary Poppins,

1627
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,920
the Mary Poppins Kids. But it's one of those things

1628
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:47,880
that my friend was telling me, Oh, yeah, it's all

1629
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:50,279
about Bohemian Grove. It's like, Okay, now I get it

1630
01:30:50,319 --> 01:30:53,279
that you're kind of conflating it. No, it's literally about

1631
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:58,520
this rich California businessman that owns a whole like all

1632
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,920
this acreage in the Redwood Foes and that he's going

1633
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:04,239
in there to find this secret society that no one

1634
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:07,039
else knows about and they're they're almost dying out and

1635
01:31:07,039 --> 01:31:10,479
he has to find a way to reinvigorate this secret

1636
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:12,880
society and get them the contention. It's like, this is

1637
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:14,720
obviously about Bohemian Grove.

1638
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like such switch rules and weird fairy a.

1639
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:20,520
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Yeah. The whole point is that they're

1640
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,199
trying to find a bunch of chicks that this guy

1641
01:31:23,279 --> 01:31:25,840
can just like you know, lay down the law so

1642
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:30,119
that they can repopulate this this gnome which again, if

1643
01:31:30,159 --> 01:31:33,880
you know anything about actual Bohemian Grove lore, they've got

1644
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:36,439
this concept call I think it's called Jumping the River

1645
01:31:37,159 --> 01:31:39,640
or something, but all these guys go out to this

1646
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:43,760
all men exclusive camp. But right over the river, they've

1647
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:47,439
got like these brothels that people fly out and they

1648
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:50,439
set up in these brothels just to coordinate with when

1649
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,439
Bohemian Grove is going to be there, because this is

1650
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:55,199
their busiest time of the year with like the biggest

1651
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:58,760
the biggest payers. So yeah, it was just like, yeah,

1652
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,439
Bohemian Grove is always been about going out in the

1653
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:03,199
middle of the woods and doing sex rituals.

1654
01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in your face when you like actually know

1655
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:12,479
what's going on, they playing in your face. So if

1656
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:16,239
you guys want a great breakdown of Return to OZ,

1657
01:32:16,319 --> 01:32:21,560
go to Paranoid Americage channel. And also Jay and Basely

1658
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:24,079
Analyzer did Return to OZ. They did a great three

1659
01:32:24,279 --> 01:32:27,279
hour deep dive into that a year ago, so check

1660
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:31,600
that out. The only thing I didn't mention was, let's

1661
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:37,039
see Curly ank Ulter a diary of a drug fiend.

1662
01:32:37,039 --> 01:32:40,960
Oh okay, so drugs and all of that like stuff

1663
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:44,039
comes from Curly Emerald Tablets of Thoth is the Emerald City.

1664
01:32:44,359 --> 01:32:45,159
What do you think of that?

1665
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also what was leading you to the emerald

1666
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,520
tablets of both in the original movie was like the

1667
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:57,800
big opium fields right well, which was another like this

1668
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:02,319
inebriation concept that like you have to go through like

1669
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:05,399
another altered state of consciousness before you can fully get there.

1670
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:10,239
Speaker 1: M So it's a shamanic journey also, Yeah, that.

1671
01:33:10,279 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 2: And also maybe even a like a defense mechanism that

1672
01:33:15,079 --> 01:33:18,319
if you get so enamored with the opium fields before

1673
01:33:18,359 --> 01:33:20,840
you get there, that'll weed out a lot of the

1674
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:24,119
people that maybe don't have the best intentions to actually

1675
01:33:24,159 --> 01:33:26,279
get to the real gems. Like if if you can

1676
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:29,319
be sold on numbing yourself to the rest of the world,

1677
01:33:29,399 --> 01:33:32,960
but even through that, if you're still like working towards

1678
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,680
this this higher understanding getting you know, getting the Emerald City,

1679
01:33:37,079 --> 01:33:39,600
then yes, it's a way of of sort of part

1680
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:41,920
of the initiation ritual. It'll weed out the people that

1681
01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:43,159
are not worthy of it.

1682
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,960
Speaker 1: Have you seen that esoteric movie Holy Mountain?

1683
01:33:48,119 --> 01:33:50,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, ya Yahavski movie.

1684
01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the at the end of that they get stuck.

1685
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,319
A lot of people get stuck at the city right

1686
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:00,199
under the mountain because like you said, they get hold

1687
01:34:00,239 --> 01:34:04,720
in the drugs and vices and they never ascend to

1688
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:06,359
the peak because of.

1689
01:34:06,319 --> 01:34:10,079
Speaker 2: That part in the scene where they've got like thousands

1690
01:34:10,159 --> 01:34:13,880
of saviors, like fallse saviors, So there's so many to

1691
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:16,119
pick frown that no one knows what the real sort

1692
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:16,840
of route is.

1693
01:34:17,199 --> 01:34:22,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this tale is more about like the salvation

1694
01:34:22,279 --> 01:34:25,760
can be awakened within you, you know, because the parts

1695
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:29,359
of Dorothy have to be reintegrated, the scarecrow, the lion,

1696
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:34,520
the te man, what do you think of Wicked? So

1697
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,279
this is gonna be huge? Is it out yet?

1698
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 2: Oh? I I haven't been fombing along other than the

1699
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:46,119
drama between the poster stuff where people were making altered

1700
01:34:46,119 --> 01:34:48,479
to posters and now they got the porn site on

1701
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:51,359
the back of the toy and yeah that's all right.

1702
01:34:51,239 --> 01:34:54,079
Speaker 1: Okay, so you guys don't know about this. They sent

1703
01:34:54,159 --> 01:34:57,079
out this official Wicked doll mattel, you know, like the

1704
01:34:57,119 --> 01:34:59,520
Wicked Barbie. It wasn't Barbie, but it was like that,

1705
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,039
And then a QR code on the back went right

1706
01:35:02,079 --> 01:35:05,199
to a corn site, so they had to recall all

1707
01:35:05,239 --> 01:35:07,520
those things and everyone's like, is this on purpose?

1708
01:35:12,119 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 2: I mean, drop the scan that I'm like when when

1709
01:35:19,039 --> 01:35:22,119
the internet just came out, when I was like in college,

1710
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,039
I went to hotmail dot com and a l e

1711
01:35:25,319 --> 01:35:27,359
on accident or by accident at one time.

1712
01:35:28,079 --> 01:35:30,159
Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to get to hotmail and I

1713
01:35:30,199 --> 01:35:35,000
got hot mails. But yeah, so Wicked is coming out.

1714
01:35:35,079 --> 01:35:37,399
That was a book, and in that book they actually

1715
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,359
say the word theosophy, So it's not we're not just

1716
01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:44,439
pegulating like they tell you in the Wicked series, like

1717
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:48,640
this is a theosophical fairy tale. But now they're uh,

1718
01:35:49,079 --> 01:35:54,479
spotlighting different characters and they are trying to make us

1719
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:56,960
empathize more with villains. Have you noticed that, like in

1720
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,039
the Disney theme park that was going to be another

1721
01:35:59,239 --> 01:36:01,039
like old like villain.

1722
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:05,199
Speaker 2: Land, right, and you've got like the Kuela Deville movie

1723
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:09,600
that came out there together. Basically, what do they call

1724
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:14,960
this reht retconning where you retroactively like change the background

1725
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:18,039
of certain characters. And I think part of this too

1726
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:22,119
out outside of the occult version of this, which is

1727
01:36:22,199 --> 01:36:25,239
always present, of course, but I would I would almost

1728
01:36:25,319 --> 01:36:29,319
always make a good counter argument that just as nefarious

1729
01:36:29,359 --> 01:36:32,600
as any of the occult sort of like symbolism they're

1730
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:35,760
trying to bake into this is that just raw commercialism,

1731
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:38,479
and they realize that, man, people love Ursula, people love

1732
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:42,680
Corolla Deville, and we can't really start just selling the

1733
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:46,239
toys because they're bad guys. So if we retcon them

1734
01:36:46,279 --> 01:36:49,199
and make them good guys, now we've got this whole

1735
01:36:49,239 --> 01:36:54,720
extra set of like nostalgia baked intellectual property that they

1736
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:55,800
haven't even tapped into.

1737
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:56,039
Speaker 1: Yet.

1738
01:36:56,119 --> 01:36:59,239
Speaker 2: Another big aspect of this is Disney now has a

1739
01:36:59,279 --> 01:37:02,199
card game is similar to like Magic the Gathering. I

1740
01:37:02,239 --> 01:37:03,600
don't know if you know about like all these like

1741
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:06,319
dungeons and dragon style cart So their card game called

1742
01:37:06,399 --> 01:37:09,920
Laura Canna, and that's another version of Now you can

1743
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,520
build a deck with all Disney villains and have it

1744
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:16,279
like work for you. So I do think that there's

1745
01:37:16,319 --> 01:37:20,239
an absolute a path where they're paving here to just

1746
01:37:20,399 --> 01:37:23,920
market on all this backlog of cool characters that they

1747
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,159
can just push that have kind of been just sitting

1748
01:37:26,199 --> 01:37:27,279
dormant in the background.

1749
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you seen that Ursula did nothing wrong?

1750
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:33,199
Speaker 3: Meme?

1751
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:37,319
Speaker 2: No, I mean I already agree with it, but no,

1752
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:39,479
what is what's the films.

1753
01:37:39,159 --> 01:37:42,159
Speaker 1: Just that she got screwed out of? She's related to

1754
01:37:42,199 --> 01:37:45,680
Prince the King Triton somehow, and she got screwed and

1755
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,039
you know, Ariel did sign the contract and she tried

1756
01:37:48,039 --> 01:37:51,079
to warn her, and you know they stabbed her in

1757
01:37:51,079 --> 01:37:56,199
the gat with a ship anyways. Like so yeah, it's

1758
01:37:56,199 --> 01:37:59,159
funny how they try and go back and give more

1759
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:05,680
backstory too, because it's true, like mistreated people do become villain.

1760
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:08,800
So that element of it is like be careful what

1761
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:10,800
you did to people, because you might be creating a

1762
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:11,640
super villain.

1763
01:38:12,319 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 2: Ursula is a really good example of how Disney changes

1764
01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:19,960
the DNA these stories around too, because they they created

1765
01:38:20,119 --> 01:38:23,840
Ursula so that you had a very specific scapegoat to

1766
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:26,520
kind of blame like all the evils on in this

1767
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,880
particular movie. Disney actually does a really good job of

1768
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:33,520
creating a certain villain and like that's the source of

1769
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:36,760
all the bad things in this particular story that becomes Ursula.

1770
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:41,600
But in the original Little Mermaid's story, uh, Christian Andersen,

1771
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:46,640
the bad guy was just the mermaids themselves, Like all

1772
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:50,119
mermaids were kind of bad in this story because mermaids

1773
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:53,159
realized that when they died, they just turned into sand

1774
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:55,920
and they didn't have they didn't ascend to heaven. They

1775
01:38:55,920 --> 01:38:58,640
didn't have an afterlife. They had nothing. They just ceased

1776
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,640
to exist. And the entire premise a Little Mermaid is

1777
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,600
that she wants to have a human soul so that

1778
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,880
she can also live in the afterlife, and the only

1779
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:10,479
way to do that is to get this human to

1780
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:12,560
fall in love with you. And in the book, she

1781
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:15,439
doesn't succeed. She does not get the prince to fall

1782
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:18,439
in love with her, so she's condemned to not go

1783
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:21,159
into the afterlife. But then all of her family and

1784
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:25,439
her friends, like I'm just joking, like even Sebastian too,

1785
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:28,720
and like Flounder, like all of her homies under the sea,

1786
01:39:29,199 --> 01:39:31,359
they basically tell her, well, if you didn't, if you

1787
01:39:31,359 --> 01:39:34,000
didn't love you to get the soul, just kill him

1788
01:39:34,039 --> 01:39:35,720
if you if you take him out, then you can

1789
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:38,319
get his soul and then you can have this afterlife.

1790
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:41,479
And the moral in the book was that she was like, no,

1791
01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:43,239
I don't want to do that either, but that the

1792
01:39:43,239 --> 01:39:45,399
whole premise is that there was no Ursula. It was

1793
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:49,039
just everybody else that was a mermaid. Everyone was jealous

1794
01:39:49,039 --> 01:39:53,119
of having this afterlife. Oh so yeah, But in the movie,

1795
01:39:53,159 --> 01:39:55,880
it's conveniently like one person that you point to, because

1796
01:39:56,279 --> 01:39:58,520
you can't really paint everyone else as the bad guys.

1797
01:39:59,199 --> 01:40:01,479
Speaker 1: So you're talking about Hans Christian Anderson.

1798
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,239
Speaker 2: Book The Original Little Mermaid. Yeah, the Original Mermaid was

1799
01:40:05,279 --> 01:40:08,119
all about she wanted to live on into the afterlife,

1800
01:40:08,159 --> 01:40:09,600
and the only way you could do that was to

1801
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:12,319
get a human to willingly kind of give that to

1802
01:40:12,399 --> 01:40:15,239
you by falling in love. It's very similar in theme,

1803
01:40:15,279 --> 01:40:17,239
I think, to the whole Snow eight and seven Dwarves,

1804
01:40:17,239 --> 01:40:20,000
where you have to have an equal exchange, where you're saying, here,

1805
01:40:20,039 --> 01:40:23,399
I'm going to share human consciousness and humanity with you

1806
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:26,720
in exchange for this other thing that I'm getting in return.

1807
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:30,319
But in Little Mermaid, she doesn't really offer anything else

1808
01:40:30,359 --> 01:40:33,600
to the prince in exchange for that consciousness, and he

1809
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:35,359
ends up falling in love with another human.

1810
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:41,319
Speaker 1: So that's sort of like an elementals journey towards apotheosis,

1811
01:40:41,359 --> 01:40:45,319
but humanity is one of the stops. I don't know,

1812
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:48,079
I just pulled that out of nothing. But because the

1813
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:54,399
Nome King what we're talking about, well.

1814
01:40:54,279 --> 01:40:57,079
Speaker 2: The Mermaids are very similar to the Nome King and

1815
01:40:57,119 --> 01:41:00,239
all the Earth elementals and that, and it's almost like

1816
01:41:00,239 --> 01:41:04,239
the fallen angels is another good analogy here, because it's

1817
01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:08,920
these things that have existed before humanity, but humanity pops

1818
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,600
up and they're like, I want what they have, and

1819
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:13,479
the only way they can get it is usually by

1820
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:17,720
tricking us or doing some sort of bartering system. But

1821
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:20,039
very rarely does it work out if someone tries and

1822
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:24,560
steal humanity or the consciousness and vice versa. Humanity doesn't

1823
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:27,319
work out if it tries to steal the treasures of

1824
01:41:27,319 --> 01:41:29,319
the mundane world. There always has to be some sort

1825
01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:30,520
of an equal exchange there.

1826
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:36,039
Speaker 1: Well, this has been a great show, perfect everything was great.

1827
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:40,199
We could do this all day. And we're not replacing

1828
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:44,840
Paul Hall. We're gonna do Mars Needs Moms. And a

1829
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:48,039
movie called Red that someone recommended about. It was a

1830
01:41:48,079 --> 01:41:50,760
Disney movie called Red, and they said watch it if

1831
01:41:51,279 --> 01:41:53,000
you think this is about menstrual cycles.

1832
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:57,439
Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, oh the panda movie, right, yeah, okay.

1833
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 1: But maybe if Thomas comes back, would you consider okay? Great,

1834
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,760
So maybe we can talk about Walt Disney on the

1835
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:10,279
front lines next time, the military aspect of the whole

1836
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:14,439
Disney Empire. And I want you guys all to go

1837
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:18,640
join the Occult book Club at Paranoid American YouTube.

1838
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:21,039
Speaker 2: Right, yes, thank you, you can go to if you

1839
01:42:21,079 --> 01:42:22,800
just go to a Cult book Club dot com, it'll

1840
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:24,560
bring you right to the playlist on YouTube.

1841
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:30,880
Speaker 1: And he's even got a trading card, right And can

1842
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:32,840
you buy these online or do you have to?

1843
01:42:33,319 --> 01:42:35,720
Speaker 2: Yes? No, you can get all those on Paranoid American

1844
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:41,000
dot com. That's the occultist Occultest Monday series, which was

1845
01:42:41,039 --> 01:42:44,079
a brainchild of Juan jan Ayala of the One on

1846
01:42:44,079 --> 01:42:47,960
one podcast. So definitely if you like those occultest Monday's,

1847
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:52,000
definitely check out his work too. TJOJP dot com.

1848
01:42:52,039 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 1: The Monkeys Possessed states what else you got?

1849
01:42:58,239 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 2: Wait? And I also worked as a topy of it.

1850
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:03,319
But I've got a book, a comic book that I

1851
01:43:03,359 --> 01:43:07,319
made with one called The Homunculous Owner's Manual that walks

1852
01:43:07,359 --> 01:43:11,319
through exactly what a homunculus is, all the historical instance

1853
01:43:11,399 --> 01:43:14,439
of them. There's a we go into like a Chroleian

1854
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,079
homunculus and Epstinian monculus.

1855
01:43:17,239 --> 01:43:24,119
Speaker 1: Really is that connected to like the nuclear stop two?

1856
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,119
Speaker 2: There we have one of those instances of that too.

1857
01:43:27,279 --> 01:43:29,560
It goes over every different version of it, so there's

1858
01:43:30,079 --> 01:43:33,479
physical versions, there's actual versions. There's conscious versions of all

1859
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:34,680
these different homunculi.

1860
01:43:35,079 --> 01:43:38,680
Speaker 1: Okay, very cool. Well you're a regular now, so I

1861
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:39,520
hope you like it here.

1862
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:42,920
Speaker 2: I love it. This was so cool. I love talking

1863
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:43,359
about this.

1864
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone's gonna freak out about you. And I

1865
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:48,159
want to thank you so much and we'll see you

1866
01:43:48,199 --> 01:43:49,199
guys next time.

1867
01:43:50,199 --> 01:43:51,079
Speaker 2: Thank you,