WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.160 Oh ye is both it shull die. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say good money to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:13.599 go out to a theater, they want cold sodas with 4 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:15.960 a pop popcorn and no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.199 In the Protection Booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:20.879 Urn it off. 7 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:47.359 July ninth, nineteen twenty nine. I chose coming away because here, 8 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:50.280 at least I feel good, and it makes me feel 9 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.079 I am growing very tall and straight inside and very still. 10 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:57.240 I have not wanted to be anything but kind to you, 11 00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:59.520 but there is nothing to be kind to you if 12 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:03.399 I cannot be me. And me is something that reaches 13 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.560 very far out into the world and all around and 14 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:13.040 kisses you a very warm, cool, loving kiss. 15 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:15.520 The degree of vitality and the energy that she captures 16 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:20.080 in her work, which makes us aware of ourselves and 17 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.080 of the fluids that run through us and of the 18 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:26.759 forces that keep us alive. I think that will always 19 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:31.439 be appealing. I don't think she ever imagined that she 20 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:35.879 would have achieved what she has achieved, and how important 21 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.479 she is right now, very important. 22 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:56.680 Right now, Hey, folks, We're going to do a special 23 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:57.800 episode of the Projection Booth. 24 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.719 I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking 25 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.039 with Paul Wagner and Alan Casey Wagner all about their 26 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:09.120 latest documentary, Georgia O'Keefe. The Brightness of Light came out 27 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.719 in twenty twenty four. It is a portrait of Georgia O'Keefe, 28 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:17.520 the famous artist. Fascinating story of her, fascinating story of 29 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:20.759 how this documentary got made. Had a wonderful time talking 30 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:22.240 with the Wagners, and I hope you have a great 31 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.039 time listening to it. Enjoy the interview. Tell me a 32 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:26.919 little bit about yourselves. I want to know how you 33 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.240 know each other and how you decided to get into filmmaking, 34 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:29.759 if you could. 35 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.319 We go way back. We met in Washington, d C. 36 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.280 In the eighties. We were both living there and I 37 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.479 was working in public television and then for an independent filmmaker, 38 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.360 and Paul had been an independent filmmaker for some time. 39 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:48.240 And we met at a reception actually at the National 40 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.800 Museum of American Art, which we kind of love. Now. 41 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.759 Then a few years later we got together and got 42 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:58.240 married and started having kids and started working together all 43 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:02.840 at the same time. Now we let's see, we were 44 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:08.120 married for about four years and then we moved to Charlottesville, Virginia, 45 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.919 which is where we still live, and it's how actually 46 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:13.960 we got involved with the film. 47 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:20.199 Ohkeif lived in Charlottesville, did that? We didn't realize it 48 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.160 was so important in her life and in her art. 49 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:26.079 We have been there for many years and we were 50 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:28.759 always aware that there's a house with a historic marker. 51 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.480 Georgia O'Keeffe lived here. It's because her mother ran a 52 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.600 boarding house there for UVA students back in the early 53 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:39.680 twentieth century. But she came here to spend some summers 54 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:44.560 and took an art class at the university because at 55 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.199 that time women were only allowed to take classes at 56 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.519 the University of Virginia in the summertime, a summer school. 57 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.000 She at that point had not painted in four years. 58 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:58.279 She'd just given up on art, and taking that class 59 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.800 changed her life. Got her excited. I did all over 60 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:04.399 again about doing art. She never looked back. By the 61 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.079 next summer, she was a teaching assistant in the class 62 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.000 and did that for the next few summers. So it 63 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.879 was a really important time for her. So we originally 64 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:17.079 thought we found out all about this at an exhibit 65 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.480 at the Frailin Art Museum at the University of Virginia, 66 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:22.000 and thought, we'll make a short film about this. No 67 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.240 one really knows about this part of O'Keefe's life. But 68 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:28.279 then realized that there hadn't been a major film done 69 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:32.000 on her in many years, and decided to go big, 70 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.120 and that's what we did her whole life. 71 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:36.199 Hey, I was. 72 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:39.279 Curious what the origin of the movie was. It sounds 73 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.959 like the short just blew up, huh exactly exactly. 74 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.240 The other thing that we realized when we started looking 75 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.959 at sort of what films had been made about O'Keefe 76 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.759 is that there was a really terrific film made in 77 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.399 nineteen seventy seven with when she was alive, with her 78 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:58.800 on camera, and it's a great film and if you 79 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.079 go on YouTube, that's sort of those are the clips 80 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.199 of okeef. There hadn't been a lot of films made 81 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:09.519 about her whole life after that. And what had happened 82 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.639 was after she died, she had put into her will 83 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.519 that twenty years after her death, all of her correspondence 84 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:20.720 between her and Alfred Stieglitz was to be released to 85 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:24.199 the public, and a few more years it was edited 86 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.120 and compiled and published and in reading it, it's just 87 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:34.360 this incredible document that provides sort of this intimate, very 88 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:39.279 personal narrative about her life because they were together for 89 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:43.600 most of their adult lives. So that became then in 90 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:45.879 a way you're thinking, oh, as a filmmaker, I wish 91 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.079 we had Georgio keep on camera, But in fact these 92 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:53.040 letters provided a kind of an entry into what she 93 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.519 was thinking and feeling that actually is more honest and 94 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.439 open than you would get from her in the film. 95 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:03.160 And of course we use clips from that seventy seventh 96 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:05.399 film in our film, so it's kind of a mix 97 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:09.600 of her on camera but also these letters which are 98 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.720 read in the film by Claire Danes, These letters that 99 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:16.720 are just really intimate and they allow us to kind 100 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:20.800 of track her whole life in her own voice. 101 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.000 Was that always the plan or when did that come 102 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.120 into the play to say, oh, we're going to use 103 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.199 these letters as this kind of narration device. 104 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.279 Yeah, no, as soon as we conceived them that we 105 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:31.959 were going to do the whole life and do a 106 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.199 feature film biography. That was in the plan because in 107 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.199 seeing that book, in doing our research, we had read 108 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.720 that book and it's just incredible and it had no 109 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.759 other filmmakers, no other films. Battle Keith had used it also, 110 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.399 so it was it kind of gave us a perspective 111 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.079 and a power to telling her story. 112 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:58.680 When you're doing a documentary about a person, how much 113 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.079 do you have to work with the state in order 114 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.120 to get clearance for the artwork, the narration, all these 115 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:04.959 kind of things. 116 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.360 Yeah, no, it's a great question. We had not done 117 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:12.399 a film before on one individual artist, and we were 118 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:16.879 really fortunate that we had a cooperation of the Georgia 119 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:21.879 O'Keefe Museum in Santa Fe. They've been very supportive of 120 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:25.319 the project and allowed us not only access to all 121 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.240 of her works because they hold the copyright on almost 122 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.120 all of her work, but also they allowed us to 123 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.960 film in both of her houses. So it was extraordinary 124 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.120 and we are forever grateful to them because it just 125 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.399 wouldn't have been possible without that. 126 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.679 And then the artwork itself has got to be such 127 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.600 a major concern when it comes to presenting it and 128 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.639 making sure that it looks good and that the estate 129 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:53.039 is approving everything too, I'm sure, and. 130 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.639 There are hundreds of her paintings in the film. It's 131 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:00.840 interesting now that we're showing it in theaters and to 132 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:05.159 the public. So many people know about O'Keefe, and when 133 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.879 they think of O'Keefe, they think about the flowers or 134 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:12.840 the bones in the desert landscape, and those are important 135 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.919 images for O'Keefe, but she was much more vary than that, 136 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.919 and a lot of people don't realize, for example, that 137 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.840 she painted the skyscrapers in New York, lots of scores 138 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:28.000 of paintings of New York skyscrapers, which is very almost 139 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:30.320 the opposite of what you think of when you think 140 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:34.240 of O'Keefe. Some of my favorite artworks in the film 141 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:38.240 are charcoals that she did as a young woman that 142 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:42.600 are very abstract, but they're just black charcoal on kind 143 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.360 of beige or white paper, and they are incredibly beautiful 144 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.519 and kind of really evoke her personality. And when you 145 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:52.919 look at him, you go, this is O'Keefe. You can 146 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.840 see that it fits into her ouvera of her work 147 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.240 and fits into her psychology who she was as a 148 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.480 person and as an artist, But hardly anybody's ever seen them, really. 149 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.240 How aware of those things? 150 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:07.559 For you? 151 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:12.039 Before you even started the project. 152 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.759 I didn't know anything about the charcoals, Oh wow. And 153 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.879 number of different kind of motifs is the word that 154 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.720 you hear a lot kind of different clusters of subject matter, 155 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.799 some that are not considered as important. But she did 156 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.679 twenty eight paintings of apples because she was living at 157 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.720 Lake George and New York and they had all these 158 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:36.840 apple trees, and she always painted what was at hand. 159 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:38.279 She painted. 160 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.720 It was out of her imagination in many ways, but 161 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.840 it was more like her imagination's take on what was 162 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.000 the objects that were at hand, whether that was a 163 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:53.840 mountain in New Mexico or when apple fallen on the 164 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:54.960 ground in Lake George. 165 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.480 One of the things I always find fascinating about documentaries 166 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.600 is just it's such a a process of discovery. It's 167 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.440 a process of discovery for me as a viewer watching 168 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.559 what you put together. But then as you being filmmakers, 169 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.320 what was that process of discovery for you? What were 170 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.279 some of the most surprising things that you found while 171 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.919 you were doing all your research and putting this project together. 172 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.840 Well, I think for me, I had a very limited 173 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.440 view of her and her life. I knew some of 174 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:27.360 the paintings, mostly flowers, some landscapes, and I was astonished 175 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.799 at how many places she lived. And we were very 176 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.440 fortunate to be able to film in nearly all of 177 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.320 them along the way, and that far from being this 178 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.159 sort of recluse in the desert and the Southwest, she 179 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.360 had a huge number of friends and she traveled widely, 180 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.120 especially in her later years. She traveled all over the world, 181 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.480 and I really had no idea that she had done that. 182 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.799 It was all fascinating filmed. Yeah, So we filmed the 183 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.159 course in New Mexico, but also in Lake George in 184 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.679 New York City. We went to sun Prairie, Wisconsin, where 185 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.159 she was born, and her grandfather's house is still standing 186 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.120 and the farmland is there. Her house that her family 187 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.879 lived in is unfortunately not there any longer, but you 188 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:14.840 could really get a sense of it, not that far 189 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.600 outside of Madison, Wisconsin, as a sun prairie land where 190 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.240 she grew up and they were very formative years. She 191 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.360 early on was taking art and music classes. It was 192 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.679 really important to her and it was amazing really to 193 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:31.480 see that land and realized that it shaped her very 194 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:31.799 early on. 195 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:32.480 Yeah. 196 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.039 That where else did we go to beach? 197 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:35.720 Oh? 198 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.919 Right, York Beach Main She had gone there several times 199 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:42.200 to paint, and we took ourselves up there and it 200 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:46.440 was just and could just really sense why she loved 201 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.759 it so much. There where else? Oh, Texas? Of course 202 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:53.679 that's Paloduro, Yeah, Paladuo Canyon and that canyon area, and 203 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.799 Marillo she also taught, and that was her first real 204 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:01.960 experience and of falling in love with that western landscape 205 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:04.759 was when she went out there to teach, and that 206 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.759 was fascinating to me. I really didn't know much about 207 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.759 that aspect of her life either, and to get out there, 208 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:15.279 there's nothing like that landscape and just incredible, the flatness 209 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.879 and the vastness of it. And then this canyon, it 210 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.519 just seems to come out of nowhere. And so she 211 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.519 spent a lot of time hiking there. Yeah, and of 212 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.120 course here in Virginia. She actually hiked here in Virginia. 213 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:30.799 And not Blueverige rountains. 214 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:31.759 Yeah. 215 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.200 How long did it take you to put this project together? 216 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:35.720 That sounds like so much travel of. 217 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.039 It was a long project. We first saw that little 218 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.559 exhibit that inspired us in the fall of twenty eighteen, 219 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:49.320 and we developed the project through twenty nineteen. Early twenty twenty, 220 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.159 we went out to do our first research in New 221 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.440 Mexico and that was the week COVID hit the country 222 00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:00.080 and just turned everybody's lives upside down. We went to 223 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.000 the museum a couple of times that week, but we 224 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:04.519 went on the friday that we were leaving. The next 225 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.799 day we closed the museum. They closed their doors I 226 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.679 think at seven pm, and they didn't open them again 227 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.840 for two years. That's how bizarre the timing was. But 228 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:16.200 in any case, we were able to continue developing the 229 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.919 project and raising our funds through the worst of COVID, 230 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.600 and then when we got vaccinated and people felt comfortable 231 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:27.440 going out again, we were able to schedule our filming. 232 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.440 We filmed our interviews and went on location to the 233 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.559 places that she lived. 234 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.320 One thing about her with that first bit of information 235 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.120 about her life here in Charlesville, which was that she 236 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.159 had stopped painting. Ellen mentioned had stopped painting for four years. 237 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.279 She had stopped when she was twenty years old. So 238 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:49.519 about that. Georgia O'Keefe this brilliant painter, and she had 239 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.080 been kind of a rock star as a teenager in 240 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.840 Chicago and art school and New York and art school. 241 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:57.679 She won awards for her art. She had a ton 242 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:02.000 of promise and people recognized her being really talented, and 243 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:04.919 so there was every expectation that she was going to 244 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:09.200 be the next great artist. But here in nineteen oh eight, 245 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.840 she get disillusioned with her art, which was kind of 246 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:17.559 like a still life and painting of a bowl of flowers, 247 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.039 not the close ups, but just the regular flowers on 248 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:24.039 a tabletop, and she got disillusioned with that kind of 249 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.240 Western European approach to art making, and for four years 250 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.679 she didn't pick up a brush until she took that 251 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.679 class that Ellen was talking about at Uva, and that 252 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.039 brought her back to life. But it also indicated to 253 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:45.399 us that she was a very intense person that she 254 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:48.200 would just with all of her success, that she would 255 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.120 walk away from art because she was personally dissatisfied with it, 256 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.080 and we saw that she had kind of a tumultuous 257 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:59.240 life in many ways. She stopped painting for a year 258 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.120 in nineteen teen thirty three. She didn't pick up a 259 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.519 brush for the whole of nineteen thirty three because she 260 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.039 was kind of in a crisis of confidence. Might even 261 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.039 say it was the nervous breakdown. It's hard to say 262 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.960 because we don't have any kind of medical diagnosis of it, 263 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.159 but she was troubled a lot of it around her 264 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.399 very challenging and difficult relationship with Alfred Stieglis. That was 265 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.919 clearly a big part of it. So in a lot 266 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:29.679 of ways, you know, all of us who are not 267 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:34.320 great artists, think, oh, Georgia O'Keefe, Picasso, all the great 268 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.679 painters masters. Every time they sit down and paint something, 269 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.720 it's going to be a masterpiece. But you realize in 270 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.320 looking at Georgia O'Keefe's life that she was very vulnerable, 271 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.360 very insecure about her work. Even at one point she 272 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.879 burned forty of her paintings because she wasn't sure that 273 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.440 they were up to snuff, that they were good enough, 274 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.360 and she had kind of a crisis of confidence about them. 275 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:02.440 So you realize, no, she's not even though she's a 276 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.759 brilliant painter, she's not an all powerful artist person. She's 277 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.640 a human being just like us. And in some ways, 278 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:14.319 Georgia O'Keeffe especially, she's such an iconic figure that we 279 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.480 all look up to and idolize and put her on 280 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:22.000 a pedestal. But one thing the film does is it 281 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.279 tries to de mythologize O'Keefe and remind you that, no, 282 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.440 she's a human being, and we think that's a good 283 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.680 thing because then as viewers, even though we're not the 284 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.279 greatest artist in the world, are the most talented person, 285 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.680 you can look at her and realize she's a human being. Also, 286 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:41.839 just like I am. 287 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.079 Going back to the length of the shooting and everything, 288 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.279 when did you finally complete this and what was that 289 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.440 process like and did you do test screenings? I mean, 290 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.400 how many people have you seen this with so far? 291 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.920 We've filmed over a year or more, and then the 292 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.880 editing took a couple of years, and we premiered the 293 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:02.200 film late in the twenty twenty four at the Santa 294 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:06.480 Fe International Film Festival, which was really exciting. And then 295 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.319 a few weeks later here in our hometown of Charlottesville, Virginia, 296 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:14.119 the Virginia Film Festival showed it. The Actually, the screening 297 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.160 here sold out immediately, so they the Film Festival, asked 298 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:20.000 if they could add one a few months later, and 299 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:24.240 it sold out immediately at Viola Crown Theater here in Charlottsville. 300 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:28.000 And then Viola Crown Theaters approached us and said could 301 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.279 we show the film in all four of our cities. 302 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.160 We thought, sure, that came out of the blue. So 303 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:37.839 therefore cities at the time, where Charlottesville, Santa Fe, Dallas, 304 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:42.119 and Austin, and they had runs there starting in March 305 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:45.839 of twenty twenty five, and then we started reaching out 306 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:49.079 to other theaters. Theaters started reaching out to us, and 307 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.759 so it's been playing in theaters all over the country 308 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:53.400 for the past year plus. 309 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:55.759 I think we're up to one hundred and thirty theaters 310 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.000 it's played in, which is amazing. We hitn't I can't 311 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.440 say that we even thought that was going to happen. 312 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.920 We didn't even think about that when we were making 313 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:09.039 the film. So that's been really encouraging and very exciting. 314 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.160 It's really fun. I have to say. It's available now 315 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.079 on iTunes and we're thrilled that is out there for 316 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.480 people to see. But it's especially exciting, you have to say, 317 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:21.960 for people to see it in theaters, and we are 318 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.640 going to continue to show it in theaters even though 319 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.599 it's available for home video. Also, we've gone through a 320 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:28.440 lot of the screens. 321 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.400 That's been exciting. Yeah, And when we've been able to, 322 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.799 we've gone out and done some Q and a's and 323 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.200 we love love talking to the audience afterward and getting 324 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:44.160 their impressions and We've heard some wonderful personal stories from 325 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.960 people who feel so connected to O'Keefe. So it's been 326 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.920 really an honor for us to get out there and 327 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.000 be able to have those conversations and show the film 328 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.359 for all this time sees. 329 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.000 The comment we get most is because she has such 330 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.079 a fan base, people who love her. People come in, 331 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.519 they say after the film, they say, I've always loved 332 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.039 Georgie O'Keefe, and I thought I knew everything about her 333 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.839 until I saw your film. So really great because you 334 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:17.599 realize even somebody that famous and iconic, and we kind 335 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:22.799 of laugh. People actually joke, oh, I had a poster 336 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:26.359 of O'Keefe's painting of a flower in my dorm room 337 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.880 in college, or we always have a calendar of O'Keefe painting. 338 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.319 She's kind of famous for that. Some people kind of 339 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.319 dismiss her. It's like, oh, it's like not real art, 340 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:42.279 it's like commercial, too popular. But you realize not just 341 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:46.160 her art that's popular, she's popular as a human being. 342 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:51.839 People really relate your especially women, really connect with O'Keefe, 343 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.759 and the film actually kind of looks at that appeal 344 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.319 that she has and kind of investigates why is she's 345 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.960 such a compelling figure as an artist, and especially for women. 346 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.839 Yeah, it's got to be tough one to get recognized 347 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.039 as an artist, much less too, being a woman artist 348 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.000 in the twentieth century and being able to compete against 349 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:15.440 the rest of the art world. 350 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:16.039 Yeah. 351 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.960 Yeah, No, it's very inspiring for women. It has been 352 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.599 for the whole twentieth century. One thing that I hadn't 353 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.079 quite focused on when we started the film. I was 354 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.400 thinking of Okeef in terms of modernism, the mother of 355 00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.240 American modernism, and so when you think of modernism, you 356 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.880 think mid twentieth century. She was huge in the early 357 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.519 nineteen twenties. She exploded in New York. Her artwork was 358 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:44.440 immediately when it was exhibited by Stieglitz. People were just 359 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.079 all over it, and women, especially even at that time, 360 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.359 were all over it. And it was a great moment 361 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:50.839 for women. 362 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:51.079 Then. 363 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.559 American women had just gotten the vote in nineteen twenty 364 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.119 and there was a whole notion of like the modern 365 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.720 American woman emerging, especially a place like New York, and 366 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.319 here O'Keefe just explodes on the scene and becomes identified 367 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.960 not just as a great artist, but as a great 368 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:09.720 woman artist. 369 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.759 You mentioned Claire Danes. How did you get her involved 370 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:13.839 in the project? 371 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.680 She was at the top of our list when we 372 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.440 were considering who might be a great voice for O'Keefe, 373 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:25.160 And we really don't think this had anything to do 374 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.960 with it, but we had happened to meet her several 375 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.400 years ago when she was in Virginia filming a season 376 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:33.559 of Homeland and we had been invited to a reception 377 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.559 and met her and her husband, Hugh Nancy and I 378 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.839 don't know. We felt maybe they would remember that or 379 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:45.720 have fond feelings of Virginia, and they did. We approached them, 380 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.279 and we also thought maybe they'd find it appealing to 381 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.799 both be involved in the same project, And for whatever 382 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.240 reason they did say they both said yes. So worked 383 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.440 out really well. We really love how both of them. 384 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.279 Yeah, they both give great performances. And I don't know why, 385 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:04.839 but it's kind of cool to have a husband and 386 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.680 wife be the public face of the film. 387 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:10.440 What have you worked on since then? I'm curious what 388 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:11.960 you're working on these days. 389 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.799 Well, this has taken a lot of my ethernly just 390 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.079 showing very very long rollout and getting it out into 391 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.240 the world. And Paul's been working on a script for 392 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.599 a feature film. It's a little early to talk about. 393 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:32.480 Say, we mostly do documentaries, but we have done fiction films. 394 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.319 We did a film that came out in nineteen ninety 395 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.839 nine called Windhorse, and it was based on documentary material 396 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:44.000 but was a fictional version of it. And this new 397 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:50.400 project is also a dramatic film that has a documentary basis. 398 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.759 So much in the preliminary stage. And like with O'Keefe, 399 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.440 we saw that exhibit here in town in twenty eighteen 400 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.240 and here we are talking to you in twenty six 401 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:06.240