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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofits. For today, we have another science episode,

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<v Speaker 1>but this one's a little bit different because today we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about butts as well. Kara, what do

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<v Speaker 1>you have about butts to tell us about today?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll tell you. Scientists recently discovered a fascinating instance

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<v Speaker 2>of two individual comb jellies fusing into a single body

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<v Speaker 2>after realizing that one of their specimens appeared to have

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<v Speaker 2>developed two butts. In the instance described in this article, apparently, overnight,

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<v Speaker 2>the bodies of two comb jellies had not only fused together,

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<v Speaker 2>but also their nervous systems and digestive systems were operating

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<v Speaker 2>as one entity. The only remaining vestiges of individuality were

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<v Speaker 2>their transient anuses, which continued to poop independently of one another.

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<v Speaker 2>This rare phenomenon challenges the traditional concept of what defines

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<v Speaker 2>an individual organism, revealing the plasticity and adaptability of life forms.

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<v Speaker 2>The study of his new insights into how organisms evolve

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<v Speaker 2>and function when combined, building on historical experiments by those

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<v Speaker 2>like those by B. R. Coonfield in the nineteen thirties,

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<v Speaker 2>and these findings contribute to our understanding of marine biology,

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<v Speaker 2>evolutionary development, as well as transplant research. Oh and this

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<v Speaker 2>story is from Scientific American by Elizabeth Ann Brown on

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<v Speaker 2>October seventh, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Kara. Now, I've got to say that I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to do my best to not make this a childless

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<v Speaker 1>ran about butts, because really the story actually had some

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting topics to be brought up in it. One

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<v Speaker 1>in particular for me is I have a friend who

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<v Speaker 1>came home from the hospital today from a liver transplant,

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<v Speaker 1>so understanding how risky and complicated that process is, this

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<v Speaker 1>is definitely one of those things I thought that shed

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of light on potentials in that field. AJ,

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<v Speaker 1>could you enlighten us on that.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, these frankin jellies may seem like just a creepy, freaky,

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<v Speaker 3>or even funny creature, something hard to imagine existing in

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<v Speaker 3>the real worldwide, but this discovery and the research around

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<v Speaker 3>it could have some major implications in human medical advancements.

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<v Speaker 3>Their researchers explain that this could help scientists unravel the

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<v Speaker 3>mystery of what's called a lot recognition in humans. Just

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<v Speaker 3>like in Jelly's, this process helps human bodies recognize that

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<v Speaker 3>a body party transplanted into their bodies doesn't belong to them,

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<v Speaker 3>and this happens by activating the immune system and triggering

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<v Speaker 3>the rejection process. So by learning more about the exact

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<v Speaker 3>processes that the immune system and the body use that

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<v Speaker 3>leads to rejection could help us develop medications, procedures, or

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<v Speaker 3>anything that can prevent or lower the rate of organ

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<v Speaker 3>rejection in the future. And one of the researchers say

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<v Speaker 3>that simple organisms hold clues to understanding our own complexities

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<v Speaker 3>as well as stressures that can benefit our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Aj, and I really thought that was a great quote.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, I was going to use that quote leading

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<v Speaker 1>up to my next segment with Kara, but I won't

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<v Speaker 1>have to even say it this time. But taking that

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<v Speaker 1>quote that AJ brought up, I do think that this

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<v Speaker 1>is also a reminder in me personally. I was wondering

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<v Speaker 1>how you felt on it about how we define life

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<v Speaker 1>and individuality in the first place. You know, people like

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<v Speaker 1>to put things in a box and say this is

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<v Speaker 1>what it means to be a person or this is

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<v Speaker 1>and then they always want all these little specific easy

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<v Speaker 1>to fit on, one size fits all. What did you

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<v Speaker 1>think about what that quote that Aj about simple organisms

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<v Speaker 1>holding clues to understanding our own complexity.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I liked that quote as well, And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think you bring up a good point too, about

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<v Speaker 2>how we really have a tendency to center human life

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<v Speaker 2>as sort of the metric by which we measure anything

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<v Speaker 2>else in terms of value or meaning or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and in fact, our bodies as humans are

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<v Speaker 2>not entirely made up of human cells. In fact, the

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<v Speaker 2>majority of the cells in our body, we have learned,

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<v Speaker 2>are not necessarily human. We have a lot of other

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<v Speaker 2>critters and organisms in and on us at all times,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is a normal state of affairs. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we've learned a lot more about our microbiome in recent years,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's even been proposed by some people that perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>bacteria were the first species to domesticate other species, as

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<v Speaker 2>it were, and maybe we're all going around doing just

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<v Speaker 2>what they want us to to keep them alive inside

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<v Speaker 2>of our bodies. So yeah, I think it's an interesting

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<v Speaker 2>point and a good example of an organism doing something

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't normally think of as possible. But that

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<v Speaker 2>suggests possibility for what we might be able to do

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<v Speaker 2>with technology and with additional learning, for things like finding

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<v Speaker 2>ways to prevent transplant patients from rejecting the organs that

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<v Speaker 2>they're using and things like that, which I think is fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>I also think that to your earlier point, it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of interesting that probably the only reason we're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>this article is because the science communicator who wrote about

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<v Speaker 2>it in this article framed it in terms of this

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<v Speaker 2>is a story about this organism with two butts, and

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<v Speaker 2>we all want to laugh and joke about the two

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<v Speaker 2>butts and the transient anus. And that was a great

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<v Speaker 2>strategy to get us reading about research that might otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>seem pretty dry and uninteresting. And here we are talking

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<v Speaker 2>about it on a podcast. So I think that was

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<v Speaker 2>a win.

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<v Speaker 3>On a Halloween episode, no less, you know Halloween, we

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<v Speaker 3>see we see spiders and bats and black cats as

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<v Speaker 3>the mascots for spookines. But I was not expecting a

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<v Speaker 3>jelly with two buttholes to make the cut. But I

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<v Speaker 3>have to say that the weirdest thing about this calm

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<v Speaker 3>jelly isn't that it had two bats, but how they work. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>you mentioned earlier that they have was called that transient anals,

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<v Speaker 3>and this means that they're inners, not only forms. It

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<v Speaker 3>only forms when they need to poop, so after they're

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<v Speaker 3>finished defecating, the anals completely disappears. It's gone. You can't

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<v Speaker 3>see it nowhere to be found, you know. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 3>in the study they were saying that that they injected

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<v Speaker 3>dye into the food for the jellies, right, and they

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<v Speaker 3>fed it to the jellies, and they realized that even

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<v Speaker 3>though the food was going into one of the jelly's mouth,

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<v Speaker 3>it was actually going through both of their gastro intestinal systems,

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<v Speaker 3>and they both pooped out out of the food that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, even even though only one of them had

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<v Speaker 3>eaten it. So it means that their internal organs completely merged,

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<v Speaker 3>which I was disgusting and quey. At the same.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, I've definitely thought that the idea of I was

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<v Speaker 1>fascinated and I probably shouldn't admit it by the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of the transient anus where it was just as I

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<v Speaker 1>may have mentioned to someone one of you earlier, it

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<v Speaker 1>felt like playing whack a mole with butts, because you

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<v Speaker 1>just never know where it's going to show up. And

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that was really cool, especially realizing that in

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<v Speaker 1>spite of all the things that they had in common,

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<v Speaker 1>they still had retained that aspect of individuality, and I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't help but think that I think that's an aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of originality that as humans, many of us make sure

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<v Speaker 1>we hold on to our ability to be a transient.

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<v Speaker 1>But but you know, that's something else entirely. Caroen, did

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<v Speaker 1>you have something you wanted to say about the whole

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<v Speaker 1>idea of this nineteen thirties Coonfield experiments. Did you have

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<v Speaker 1>any perspective on that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Yeah, I do think it's a bit creepy personally,

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<v Speaker 2>And if you read up on the experiments, which I

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<v Speaker 2>have just only done a cursory review of, it sounds

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<v Speaker 2>as though the researchers were kind of intentionally inflicting these

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<v Speaker 2>injuries and then actually connecting these other kinds of jellyfishes

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<v Speaker 2>together to see if that would work and how it

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<v Speaker 2>would work. And I find that visual imagery particularly horrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>It reminds me of some of those horror movies where

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<v Speaker 2>they're sewing people together. And what I think is interesting

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<v Speaker 2>is that in the story about this article, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>tell us that the researchers here intentionally injured the two

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<v Speaker 2>jellies to see if they would fuse together. It's very

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<v Speaker 2>vague on how this occurred. But reading some other articles

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<v Speaker 2>about it, it seems to imply that it may have

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<v Speaker 2>been intentional, but this article doesn't say that so, and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know for sure. I wasn't able to find

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<v Speaker 2>a full copy of the actual published article about this,

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<v Speaker 2>so I will hold off on judgment there. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's interesting that it was probably apparent to the

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<v Speaker 2>writer of this article that it would be a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit more horrifying than intended if we mentioned that this

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<v Speaker 2>was something that was intentionally done to the jellies, And

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<v Speaker 2>to me, that kind of brings up some questions about

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the ethical implications of the types of studies

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<v Speaker 2>that we do on other kinds of organisms. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>this one does sound like it has some very important

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<v Speaker 2>benefits to humans in terms of the types of medical

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<v Speaker 2>technology that we could gain from it. I can see

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<v Speaker 2>how it may have been approved even if it was

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<v Speaker 2>something that was intentionally done. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>that's just another aspect of it that kind of gives

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<v Speaker 2>me the creeps.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so on that topic, you know, just like you,

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<v Speaker 3>I had to go and look for more because it

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<v Speaker 3>was such an interesting st And I do remember reading

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<v Speaker 3>on one of the articles that said that they had

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<v Speaker 3>actually picked up the jelly's from the beach or whatever

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<v Speaker 3>they were at and the facility and brought them into

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<v Speaker 3>the facility, and they had gotten injured in the sort

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<v Speaker 3>of transportation. So I don't think it was necessarily done

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<v Speaker 3>on purpose. It is possible, you don't know, But I

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<v Speaker 3>think the interesting thing that I learned about it was

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<v Speaker 3>that in the nineteen thirties day at the same facility,

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<v Speaker 3>they had done a very similar experiment. So it makes

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<v Speaker 3>you wonder whether they did do it on purpose, since

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<v Speaker 3>they had already done that in the past, and it

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<v Speaker 3>seems like another marine biologist had performed, as I said,

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<v Speaker 3>performed the same a very similar experiment and found that

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<v Speaker 3>there was just the result was something that was like

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<v Speaker 3>what night mirrors are made of, because it was like

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<v Speaker 3>a sort of Franken jelly that had the bodies of

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<v Speaker 3>four individual of jelly's with the mouth and the sensory

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<v Speaker 3>organs and the butt of a fifth win So it

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<v Speaker 3>was just very, very creepy and crazy. So yeah, it

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<v Speaker 3>really does make you wonder whether there was some intention

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<v Speaker 3>to trying to repeat that same experiment from the nineteen thirties.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, since we have much better technology now

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<v Speaker 3>maybe they were trying to do some more research on

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<v Speaker 3>the similar aspects that they to what they had found

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<v Speaker 3>out back then.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to consider at least the possibility considering that's

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<v Speaker 1>the same facility that even though years later, that these

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<v Speaker 1>things get around. It's not like the marine biologist community

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<v Speaker 1>is this massive, multi billion number numerical people who just

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<v Speaker 1>are all isolated, So it wouldn't surprise me. But at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, I did notice that the article made

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<v Speaker 1>a comment about but with modern day you know, rigorous

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<v Speaker 1>studies and all that. It framed it as being a

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<v Speaker 1>more modernized version and a more what we would consider

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<v Speaker 1>modern day scientific way of doing it that perhaps was

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<v Speaker 1>done in Konsfield time. Maybe not. Maybe this is just

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<v Speaker 1>an assumption the article, the writer the article wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>portray because of the squeamish factor of people going on,

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<v Speaker 1>what are they doing? So we don't have anything better

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<v Speaker 1>to do than go around using comb jellies, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>for the fun of it. But of course this isn't

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<v Speaker 1>really for the fun of it. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>you do bring up an important point, Kara, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is is that there is an ethics aspect here to

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<v Speaker 1>be considered. Even in what we consider a simple, simple organism.

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<v Speaker 1>Because the truth is they talked about this us learning

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<v Speaker 1>from these simple organisms. I couldn't help it apply what

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<v Speaker 1>an ultimately social creature. We wouldn't even think of this

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<v Speaker 1>as being a social animal. But how much more social

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<v Speaker 1>is it to share your own body with another person

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<v Speaker 1>in a quite literal sense. Obviously not something that we

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<v Speaker 1>can literally do, But what do you think reflects aja

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<v Speaker 1>on social aspects and our species and our origin as

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<v Speaker 1>social species? Is this an example social species starting out?

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<v Speaker 3>I think that that's really what what's really interesting is

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<v Speaker 3>that I believe that the reason they were studying these

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<v Speaker 3>specific jellius is because they are the only animals that

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<v Speaker 3>we know of so far that have this lack of

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<v Speaker 3>all recognition, so their bodies cannot separate whether their souls

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<v Speaker 3>come from a different body within their own same species

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<v Speaker 3>or not. And every other animal that we know of,

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<v Speaker 3>including humans, have that ability to do that, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>why we have, you know, our organ rejection. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think that I don't know if if it is exactly

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<v Speaker 3>sort of like an adaptation, perhaps maybe it helps them survive.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that studying this very unique quality could

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<v Speaker 3>help us humans learn a lot more about about ourselves

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<v Speaker 3>and about how how we came to be this way, right,

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<v Speaker 3>and as you said, on a more as we are

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<v Speaker 3>as a socio species, this could help us with recognizing

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<v Speaker 3>how how we are individual, how individual we are.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just wondering about you, because I definitely think

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<v Speaker 1>the next time I'm talking to someone who starts talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the superiority of humans and how they only they

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<v Speaker 1>do these certain things, I would say that because these

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<v Speaker 1>start out with wounds there, these are creatures that are

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<v Speaker 1>harmed who then work together and they both survive in

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<v Speaker 1>this process. So I think that is very telling. What

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<v Speaker 1>about you, No.

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<v Speaker 2>I completely agree. One of my pet peeves is actually

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<v Speaker 2>when people kind of talk about being a human almost

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<v Speaker 2>as if it's the ultimate organism and every other species

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<v Speaker 2>is sort of defined by its differences as a deficit

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<v Speaker 2>in comparison to the way people are. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's incredibly myopic view, and I mean that

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<v Speaker 2>in some cases quite literally, and that you know, human

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<v Speaker 2>vision is not nearly as good as many other species,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet we tend to talk about our companion animals

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of things like, oh, well, you know dogs

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<v Speaker 2>are color blind, and you know this and that, But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, how often do we talk about the fact that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, their sense of smell is so far beyond

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<v Speaker 2>ours that we can't even imagine what it would be

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<v Speaker 2>like to be able to sniff the air and determine

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<v Speaker 2>how many people were here recently and when they left

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<v Speaker 2>in which direction they went. And you know, that's just

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<v Speaker 2>one example. And this is another one where we've got

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<v Speaker 2>an animal that, in cases of injury, can actually not

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<v Speaker 2>just heal itself, but you know, fuse with another to

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<v Speaker 2>continue to have all of its internal functions continue, which

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<v Speaker 2>is an incredible So I love that we're kind of

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about it in terms of, look, how cool these

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<v Speaker 2>other organisms are and all of the things that we

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<v Speaker 2>can learn from them, not just how are they similar

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<v Speaker 2>to or different from us, but actually having a greater

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<v Speaker 2>appreciation for them and their existence. And maybe even in

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<v Speaker 2>the future we'll start to incorporate things like considering their

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<v Speaker 2>willingness to participate in our experiments and interventions.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned doves being color blind

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<v Speaker 3>in comparison to humans and how we see ourselves as

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<v Speaker 3>being above them, right, because humans have only we color

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<v Speaker 3>receptive cones in our eyes