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Speaker 1: We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion

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Fest hell look at and welcome back to another edition

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of the PSO. I am the Tea and your te

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O Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here with the Low and

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your t Lo Lorenzou, my lovely husband, I love and

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we are recording this on a Saturday, for which we apologize,

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but the reason for that is twofold One is that,

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as you may know if you've been listening, there's drilling

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and jack hammering going on twelve hours a day around

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Shay Tlow, which kind of sucks for us. So we

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couldn't get the podcast done, partially because of that and

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partially because if you listen, last week we talked about

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this feature article we have coming up for regarding Harlow,

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the legendary trans woman drag Queen, and the Philadelphia Inquirer

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sent their social media team to our place this week

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to shoot videos with us promoting the peace. And that

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was fun and exhausting, but it takes time. Yeah, and

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after we wrapped up, I honestly thought it was only

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going to take an hour, and it took over three hours.

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And after it wrapped up, I was like, I am

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not lucid enough to do a podcast right now. And

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I should also note last week we talked about the

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upcoming feature article, and I believe we had said back

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then it was going to come out on the twenty second,

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which is today. It has been pushed to December sixth,

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as the last thing I've heard from my editor. And

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part of the reason it keeps getting pushed back is

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because it keeps getting bigger, which is really awesome. There

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doing a whole package. They're doing video, they're doing photos.

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Rachel Harlow sat for her first portrait in goodness thirty

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five years at least.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's a lot going on.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. So anyway, that was why,

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and we didn't want to put it off like, oh,

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we'll do it on Monday, because we really have neglected

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you guys this month because of our trip to Paris.

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So I wanted to get one quick one in today

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and hopefully we're going to get another quick one in

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on Wednesday. On Wednesday, so you'll have something to listen

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to do over the holiday weekends. All right, that's enough housekeeping,

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which is ironic. I'm saying this as are we are

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piled highway God, there's pass and everywhere tissue paper. We

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started unloading our Christmas stuff from last.

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Speaker 2: Year and I will do because we have plenty of ornaments.

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I will be doing the Ornament of the Day on

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Insta on our Instagram account because we have over week or.

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Speaker 1: Just in Paris alone, we bought ten ornaments. In Germany

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and Belgium and the Netherlands. I think we easily fifty

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or sixty new ornaments. You're going to have to do

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more than an ornament a day.

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Speaker 2: Maybe too fine, It was just fine. I'll count them

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and then make sure that I have enough, but you

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have to understand them. When we went to Cologne, sorry,

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we we actually had to buy an extra bag to.

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Speaker 1: Duffle bag to bring back to large.

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Speaker 2: Duffle bag to bring everything back because we didn't have room.

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So yeah, we we have a ton of new things

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and and we can't wait to.

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Speaker 1: Coming for they. My father, coming brother, his brother's partner.

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So we're just trying to do this huge American Christmas

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for them.

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Speaker 2: So we're very excited about it. We're going to take

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them to New York. It's it's uh, my brother's partner

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for shiming in America. Yeah, so she she's very excited

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to come here, and we're going to take her to

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New York, take her everywhere, and my mom will be

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here too, so it'll be a lot of fun, you know,

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because they're everywhere. They're not with me all the time

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I missed them, so we'll be exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so we are in the midst of that, and

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that will be taking a long time. And if you

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do want to see the ornament or two of the day,

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you should go to Tom and Lorenzo Official, which is

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our Instagram account since our old one got hacked, and

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we have not bumped our numbers up to our old

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follower numbers, so please come find us and follow us.

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It's actually, I mean not it sounds. You know, people

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roll their eyes at influencers and other and bloggers and

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so forth who get caught up in their numbers and

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their follower count. But it doesn't matter. It matters quite

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a bit. It translates to so many different things.

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Speaker 2: The thing is a lot of people don't know that

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that will happen, and so they still have the old account.

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And the thing is that we can't do anything. I

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can't even delete it. And you know, if you contact

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Instagram forget it.

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Speaker 1: There is no one to contact it Instagram.

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Speaker 2: So it's hanging there. I can't do anything. We have

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the new one.

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Speaker 1: It breaks my heart because all of our vacation pictures

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around there.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, I feel violated actually, but anyway, let's not

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go there. But anyway, we have a new account. It's

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tullel Lorenzo Official, and I'll be posting a ton of

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Christmas stuff there.

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Speaker 1: All right, we have a few things to discuss today.

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We're going to I am going to reluctantly engage in

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a discussion of Megan Markle. Lorenzo wanted to bring this up,

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and I'm like, ugh, I don't know, it's nothing. I'm honestly,

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it's not saying that against her. It's more like, hasn't

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just been discussed to death. But whatever, Lorenzo has things,

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and I have things that I will react to. Then

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we're going to talk about the exceedingly bizarre, wicked publicity tour,

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oh my god, yes, and all the drama that is

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surrounding it, so much so that there was an actual

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article in the New York Times this week simply recounting

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all of the drama on this publicity true, and then

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I think we're just gonna do the We both saw

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Kiss of the Spider Woman have all the screeners have

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started coming in because of our GLECTA membership. We are

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members of the Game Lesbian Entertainment Critics Associated, actually the

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LGBTQ Entertainment Critics Association, and so we get screamers at

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the end of the year, and we.

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Speaker 2: Really want to see the movie, and you too.

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Speaker 1: I did too, I really wanted to see the movie.

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And we have thoughts about it, disappointing thoughts. So that's

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the game plan, kind in the middle. That's the game plan,

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all right. So let's start with Let's start with Megan Markle. Meghan,

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the Duchess of Sussex just had a big splashy Harper's

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bizarre editorial Copper interview.

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Speaker 2: It's on our site, Yes, we posted it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I don't care. I barely glanced at this thing.

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And again it is not I'm not. I have no

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you know, enmity towards her. I have no you know,

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I'm not. But it's it's all been unpacked and by us,

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like we have unpacked her and her journey and and

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her druggles and her products and her persona. We have

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discussed that ad nauseum. But you know, there's always something new.

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There's also something new. Lorenzo's on TikTok and he's been

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talking all week about the TikTok and everybody talking about them.

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It's not this same interview and so on, and so

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why don't you go ahead?

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Speaker 2: And it's actually everywhere. Here's the thing with Megan Marco.

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I'm not a fan of any of them. Let me

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just put that out there. I'm not a fan of

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all Catherine Harry, none of them. I found the whole thing,

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the royal thing, disgusting, disgusting. I literally worshiping these people

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like you know, royalty, because they are royalty anyway. It's

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not my country, not my culture. I don't like any

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of that. So I'm always like reading about these things.

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But and we post on our site because of course

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we do. But you know, I don't worship this people.

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So these people to me are just like any other celebrity.

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The thing is that I have to see in her

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defense every time she does something or it comes out

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with something, they just jumped on her, you know, they

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just it's a trial every time, right, And she has

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to defend herself and they you know, they dissect everything,

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they speculate everything she has. She can never get a break.

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I give her that. But uh, she had this cover,

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she had this article, and it's very very interesting because

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it's the it's the if you read the article, is

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this whole thing about you know, the new Megan. You

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know Megan you know, finally comes out and becomes a

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new woman type of thing, and you know she's going

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to be doing new things and we keep hearing this

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all the time. And the thing is that before the

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the they dropped the article. Uh, there was this whole thing.

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We didn't have time to do it because we didn't

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do a podcast, this whole drama with her and her

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husband attending Chris Janner's birthday party, and you know, they

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photographed all these people, uh, the Kardashians of course, because

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it's all about publicity and social media, so they photographed

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all the guests, including them, Megan and Harry, and they

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posted the pictures on on on on their Instagram account,

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of course they did. So it's not a picture of

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them sitting at a table and you know, looking at

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the camera, surprised or anything like that. It's just them

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hugging the Kardashians and looking at the camera and taking pictures.

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So these pictures were taken, UH posted on on their

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social media account, the Kardashians, and UH right after that,

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the pictures disappeared, and everybody noticed that the pictures were gone,

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and they questioned. Of course, they questioned why the pictures

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were gone, so nobody came out with an answer. Finally,

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there was some story about they didn't give any consent

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for the pictures to be taken, and then that pissed

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the Kardashians because then they came out allegedly and said that,

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you know.

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Speaker 1: Nobody allegedly needs to be cast over there entire s.

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Speaker 2: I know. But but the picture did disappear, Okay, they

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were deleted anyway, So the Cardassian said that nobody gave

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permission to have the pictures taken. So they don't understand

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where where they're coming from with this thing that they

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didn't give any consent for the picture to be taken.

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But it does make a little sense to me now

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that I don't know, Party Girl, party Boy didn't go

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well with everything that's been planned, including the article. If

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you read the article, you know it makes sense that

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they didn't want those pictures, you know, on social media

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because it's a new error, you know, it's new life,

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it's a new d for Megan Marco and Prince Harry

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and you can if you.

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Speaker 1: Think this is an awful lot of speculation, well anyway,

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that's you know whatever. Some pictures got deleted from a

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social media account and a whole story now has been

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spun out over it.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, so that's I feel like it should.

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Speaker 1: Be taken with an enormous brain of salt.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, As I said, everything gets speculated too much. But anyway,

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that's where we are, and they will always talk about

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those two. So the article's out, the magazines are, the

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covers out, so now they're talking about the pictures that

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the pictures are very similar to a photoshoot that Diana,

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Princess Diana did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna jump in here because Lorenzo brought this

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up before we flipped on the mics, and I was like, okay,

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they always say that, They say that at the time.

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You know, Catherine wore that green velvet gown this week,

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and the press pulled out some black velvet gown that

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Diana wore forty years ago that had a similar and

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that's not a homage. You're just looking for shit. And

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then so Lorenzo said this before the mics went on,

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and I said, that's bullshit. Show me and we went

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looking for examples, and the examples are the same, lay

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mass shit. She's in a similar pose to oppose Diana

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gave forty years ago. Diana was the most photographed woman

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in the twentieth century. There are literally millions of photographs

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of her, and most of the editorials that Diana ever

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sat for were standard, especially later after she divorced her husband.

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They were standard celebrity style editorials. So yes, Megan and

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Catherine when they post for pictures, you're going to find

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similar poses because they're both royal women who are working

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within a certain They're not wearing super trendy, super hot,

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super sexy clothes, They're wearing royal women clothes. Meghan's doing

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an American version, Catherine's doing the traditional version, and Diana

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famously combined both. She had she used to wear the

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Eagles sweatshirt, and that's sort of that she loved American

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style and she loved royal style, and you will see

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that in her daughter's in law. But this constant attempt

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to turn everything into and in Meghan's case, when when

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Catherine does it, it's oh, loving tribute, loving tribute to

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her mother in law. Sure, and when Meghan does it,

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she's ripping Diana's memory off. It's true bullshit, Verrenzo, it's

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absolute bullshit. Discuss all you want, but I think it's nonsense.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you, and uh, because I'm always looking

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for articles for the Lounge. I see that all the time,

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and I find it actually embarrassing that fashion magazines are

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doing that.

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Speaker 1: They're doing it for the clicks, that's all they're doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm always cry and I'm always embarrassed. I was like, no,

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it's just it looks similar, but it has nothing to do.

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And you made a very good point. When Catherine does it, it's

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an homage. When Megan does it, she's copying.

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Speaker 1: She wants to be Diana and Diana's memory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's trying to be Diana. I totally agree with

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you on that. So that is about the picture. Then

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if you go look the photoshoop Megan photoshoop, it's very

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much magnet. You know, she likes like very solid block,

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you know, like like very.

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Speaker 1: Nineties style editor Yeah, she's very.

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Speaker 2: The road type of girl, you know, like the road

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of the brand, you know, very like simple, basic.

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Speaker 1: Lines and minimalists. Black and white.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what the photo shoot is about. And

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it makes sense with the article if you read the article,

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because you know, this is new Megan, so it's like

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a clean slate. It's just clean and fresh and and

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you know, black and white. So it makes sense that

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the photoshoot went that way. And I don't understand much

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the comparison. And if you can look at the pictures, yes,

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you can say the pictures are similar, and then you

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know the colors are similar.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it's bullshit just because you saw it on

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TikTok though anyway true.

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Speaker 2: So that's that. And then a segment of the population

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is met at the writer. They're very angry.

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Speaker 1: I thought the piece was very oddly written. Yeah, it

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was weirdly fawning and at the same time it would

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get critical. It would make me snidersides. I mean it

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referred to Harry and Meghan's engagement as a tectonic shift

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in the culture. No, it wasn't come on now that

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you need to calm down, and it just it overstates

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her journey and her whatever. It's just fawning in a way.

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I found a little embarrassing for the writer, honestly.

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Speaker 2: So they criticized. Some people criticized the writer because they

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think that it was kind of like a stab in

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a way. I mean that she interviewed her and at

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the same time, you know, criticized her for certain things.

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And the part that every yeah, the part that everyone

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is talking about every piece I see and read about

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is is the fact that the Megan's staff announced her

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as because the interview took place several places, I believe,

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and one of the places was in New York at

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Meghan's friend's house, this enormous you know Upper East Side,

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you know, Brownstone uh and with elevator and everything. And

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the writer makes the point of all that and uh

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and magazine is announced as the Meghan, Duchess of Sussex

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by the staff and the writer felt that was weird

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because it was just her or it was just two

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people in the room and why the staff announcing her

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as a duchy Duchess of Sussex. And so everyone is

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focused on this because you know, everyone talks about Meghan

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uh and Prince Harry uh not wanting to be part

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of the royal family anymore, and why she's still using

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the title. And then if you watch the show Love

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with Megan, she you know, talks about like that she

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is the Duchess of Sussex. That's her name now. But

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at the same time they didn't want to be any

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part of the royal family anymore anyway. So that's the

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part that everyone is talking about, is the fact that

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there was you know, she made her staff announce her

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uh in a in pretty much an empty room tale.

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So that's the thing. Uh So everyone is talking about

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this article. I thought it was interesting, and I just

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find it interesting that everything about these two and I'm

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not just saying Megan, it's Harry. It's the same thing.

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There's all he's like this drama. But anyway, I yeah.

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Speaker 1: I I just don't have a lot to say. We've

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covered this. I I think most of the drama doesn't

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really rate any sort of discussion anymore. I think the

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only thing worth rolling your eyes at is, yes, the

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staff announcing her in using her title. It seems very

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much not in line with hypocritical Yeah, they're in America,

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there's no need to be following royal protocol and there

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is absolutely no need to be using their titles. So

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I get that that's eye roll worthy. And Megan is,

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you know, every time she steps out, every time she

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gives an interview or a SoundBite, she will say something

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I roll worthy, because that is the way Megan is.

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She's she's a little pretentious, she's she protects herself a

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lot from being attacked, so she tends to get a

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little precious. I mean, there was the one quote it

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was like, I too make mistakes, and I'm like making

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who fucking talks like that? Come on? But I think

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she's harmless, and I think people just that's why I'm

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really not interested. I'm sorry, but I'm not. I'm like,

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we've covered her. She's she is who she is. She's pretentious,

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she's trying to make a life for herself, and yes,

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she received a lot of bullshit from the press and

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the public and she still does. And that's it. That's

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the making story. That's all I have to say about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just somebody made a very good point that

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she she needs to focus, she needs to decide who

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she wants to be. I feel like the two of

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them are not presenting one version of themselves out there

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that you can focus on, and you can you know,

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it's pretty much they're doing everything, they're trying everything, and

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then you know, and then some stuff doesn't work, and

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then you know, people make fun of that and they

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feel like they're not being presented the real version of them.

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And then I kind of agree with that that, you know,

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just you know, try to be one thing, tried to

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do one thing and focus on that, and then you know,

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I guess people will believe what you say more if

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they feel that that that version is more real than

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you know, every version out there present in every every

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six month. That's it, all, right.

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Speaker 1: Then that's wraps up our latest thoughts on Megan, and

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we're gonna take a show break and we'll be right back.

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We're back, and we're going to talk about the insane

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wicked press tour that has been going on for the

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last seven to ten years. You know, we talked a

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lot about this last year. We didn't I don't think

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we actually did a podcast about it, but we sure

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as hell had a lot of opinions about, you know,

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the cosplay and the theminess of their of Ariana Grande

357
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and Cyndia Rivo's outfits, and you know, there was much

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discussion last year of how strange they were acting, and

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there was that Holding Space interview that was widely memed

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and went viral, and and I think, you know this,

361
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this new press store is only a couple of weeks old,

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and let's face it, the film's opening at Christmas, but

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they are going to be doing this all the way

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right up until Oscar Night, which is basically how they

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did it last year. So we are looking at three

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months of this and there were already only two weeks

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into it, and there's been so much drama, and I

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feel like the press and the public just aren't feeling

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that kind of bullshit anymore. And there are the wicked,

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diehard fans that and there are they are legion who

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are going to think that these two can never do

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anything wrong.

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Speaker 2: But that's true of everybody.

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Speaker 1: That's true of every fandom. But I did note I

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thought it was interesting that there was an article on

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The New York Times by Esther Zuckerman. And we follow

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each other on social media about this, this this tour

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and how much has been going on with it. Do

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you want to recount some of the stuff now?

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Speaker 2: First, I want to see if you follow us, if

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you read as you know that that people, the celebrities

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do actors do that because they need to promote the movie.

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That's the reason number one reason why they do it.

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And uh and I actually put an article on in

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one of the lounes. I posted one of the articles

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about how exhausting it is and how you know, people

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try to sell a movie a whole the whole package,

388
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you know, the movie, the actors, the director, everybody. So

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you know, you're trying to sell a product here and

390
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it and it feels like with this movie because it

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is Wicked. Everybody loves Wicked. Uh, it's just it's out

392
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of control. It's it's bigger than ever. And it happened

393
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with the first movie. I mean, if you go to

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our site now, every talk show interviewed all of them

395
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many times, like they've been to every talk show, every

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you know everything. I mean, they they they already went

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to Europe and you know Asia, they're like promoting the

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show like crazy. And I understand, I understand why they

399
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:06,759
do that. It's just that couple with the whole promotion thing.

400
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There's also this bizarre way that Cynthia Rivo and orionegranted

401
00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,559
decided to present thisselves in front of the camera. I

402
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,359
understand to a certain extent that it's very emotion to

403
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,920
make a movie together, and that you know, you meet

404
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,200
again and then you have that I don't know, experience, right,

405
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and that actors have a lot of feelings.

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Speaker 1: And I think they're both a couple. They have that

407
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theater kid energy when these are the ultimate theater kid

408
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roles for them to play. I feel that a lot

409
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of their emotional stuff, you know, on tour is relatively genuine.

410
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,519
I think it's I think they get themselves a bit

411
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worked up, that's the thing. I don't think they're being phony,

412
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but I think they're getting a bit worked up and

413
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trying to get people what they want to see. And

414
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I honestly felt like that holding space thing last year

415
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,480
was like the culmination of that where they had I

416
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:08,440
felt like I could see it in the moment where

417
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they were doing their whole thing, their whole theater kid thing,

418
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and then like halfway through what they realized, what the

419
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,559
fuck are we doing like this? Why am I holding

420
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her finger? What are we even talking about? And I

421
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think it's a lot of that. I do think like

422
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this week, Cynthia Rivo had laryngitis and she couldn't speak

423
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,039
during the press stour. And that's you know what. First off,

424
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she's a singer. She needs to protect that voice. And secondly,

425
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I don't think it's at all uncommon for someone on

426
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,920
a press tour like this one to get laryngitis and

427
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,880
to have to give a statement in saying I won't

428
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be giving interviews tonight. And this was for the New

429
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,519
York Red Carpet, But then freaking Arianna gave put out

430
00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:53,799
a statement that insolidarity with her co star, she too

431
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,240
would not be giving interviews that And that's the kind

432
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,200
of silly shit that people rolled their eyes at, like,

433
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,680
all and I just give an interview. You're on a

434
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,720
red car but this is what we're here for. She's

435
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:04,400
not your wife. You don't need to do that for her.

436
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,039
You can just And she actually did wind up giving

437
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,720
interviews Arianna, So this is what I mean. They get

438
00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:12,839
so caught up in supporting their co star and loving

439
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,920
their co star, and I also think they tend to

440
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,319
this is something this goes hand in hand with the

441
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,680
cosplay element of their Red Carpet style, is that they

442
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,160
are essentially cosplaying their characters in these interviews. So they're

443
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,400
you know, there's this friendship and impossible rivalry and all

444
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,480
the feelings, feelings, feelings, and it's it's just a little silly.

445
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,519
I get it. You're selling tickets. This is what it is.

446
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,279
I'm cynical. I've been writing about this for twenty years.

447
00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:45,920
It doesn't affect me the way it might affect you know,

448
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:50,519
a fan or you know a less you know, involved

449
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,119
passer by. But it's silly. I think it's a bit silly.

450
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,880
You are not your characters. You are a couple of actresses.

451
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,319
You are grown women. You are not in in love

452
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,000
with each other. You can just be colleagues, friends and partners,

453
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:07,200
you know, work partners. You don't have to act the

454
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,440
way that they have been acting.

455
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the thing is that if you watch

456
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,799
the videos, they're hilarious in a way. The thing you

457
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,079
have to first of all, Ariana Grundy, I mean people

458
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,559
always make fun of her for several reason. First of all,

459
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:22,440
like the last Grammys, she they were making fun of

460
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,319
her the way she overreacted with with something and somebody

461
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,920
was on.

462
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Speaker 1: She used to be like this.

463
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Speaker 2: She's a pop star, fake surprised, you know, like she's

464
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,160
always like, oh my god, she does that a lot.

465
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And then the thing with the voice. People notice that,

466
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:42,240
you know, her voice is not exactly like that, right,

467
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,960
that a voice she presaated, Which is fine, you're an actor,

468
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,680
do your acting thing. But and then Santiaivo, people have

469
00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:50,119
criticized her for being a.

470
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Speaker 1: Little I don't know, She's always been extra extra.

471
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: That's the word I'm gonna use. Yeah, So you combine

472
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,480
these two personalities and and and the fact that you

473
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:02,119
have to die, you have to when you're selling a

474
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,119
movie and doing interviews. I mean, come on instead, it's

475
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,880
not just them, uh and Anya Taylor Joy. I mean,

476
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,519
have you watched one I've her ead if you're just

477
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,400
hysterical because it's over the top, you know, everything is

478
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,359
very dramatic.

479
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:18,559
Speaker 1: That's how they're doing it for the ticular. Basically they're

480
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:21,640
doing this is what modern press press tours are like.

481
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,680
This is what modern celebrity is like. Is you you

482
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:27,079
go out there and you just play this part for

483
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:31,880
your fans, and you're and whatever, I'm gonna sound so

484
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:34,799
gen x, but this it's so insincere to me that

485
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,599
I can't like all right. I guess this will sell tickets,

486
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,759
but I just roll my eyes at all of it

487
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:43,240
because it's so phony. And then I go.

488
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: Back to.

489
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: Oh boohoo, like a Hollywood press stars phony, welcome to

490
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,079
the world. This is what Hollywood press stwors have been

491
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,920
for one hundred years. Now, maybe it just seems more

492
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,200
obvious with these two, how phony and over the top,

493
00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:00,400
it's become I don't begrudge them, like I said, I

494
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,119
think they're bringing that theater kid energy. I think they're

495
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,319
bringing exactly what the fans of Wicked want to see

496
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,079
from the two of them. However, it strikes me as

497
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:12,680
a strong I guess they feel they can do this

498
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,759
because pitch their entire you know, publicity tour directly to

499
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:21,880
the people who are gonna buy tickets anyway, rather than

500
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,240
trying to convince the general public. Because I guess they

501
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,000
figured this is going to be such a monster hit,

502
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:29,279
we can just go out and you know, cosplay for

503
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:32,039
the fans. And that's exactly what they've been doing. That's

504
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:35,440
why this tour feels so bizarre. And I mean we

505
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,480
didn't note that there was the there's just so much drama,

506
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:44,200
like Ariana Grande got attacked by a fan on the

507
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:44,920
red carpet.

508
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,559
Speaker 2: Where was that? I think of Singapore.

509
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: I think it was Singapore. He the guy does that

510
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,799
that was their fault.

511
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: No, no, absolutely no, but he apparently the.

512
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: Guy has a history of it.

513
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: Go ahead, that's it. He apparently he does that a lot.

514
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:02,759
He's done that with other act musicians. So not defending him.

515
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:05,440
He's an asshole. And it is scary. You know, you

516
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,880
have this crazy person, you know, running towards you. Of

517
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,920
course you're gonna freak out. And I can understand why

518
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,680
Cynthia rival uh you know, try to protect her. But

519
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,240
the scene it's it's actually you know, scary, but also

520
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,039
hilarious because Cynthia River is like protecting her, like like

521
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,440
her bodyguard, which I was actually surprised. Why why did

522
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,119
they let that happen? From number one? And where are

523
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,559
the bodyguards that are not protecting her? Right away? But

524
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480
there are other things like there's there's an interview where

525
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:37,519
Cynthia Rivo is very emotion giving an answer and then

526
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:42,400
a helicopter is passing by and she gets very emotional

527
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,960
because the helicopters this is just you know, disturbing the

528
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,960
whole thing. And then she and then Ariana grand is

529
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,440
holding her and then there's another interview where the interview

530
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:59,200
is holding Ariana grand Is arm while he's talking to her. Uh,

531
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,079
and then Cytia, we immediately go and you know, protect

532
00:29:03,079 --> 00:29:05,880
her arm and it's like kissing her and kissing her hand.

533
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,160
It's just so weird. It's weird, and I get it.

534
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,759
We're talking about it, and TikTok is talking about it.

535
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,680
Instagram is talking about it. So, you know, mission accomplished.

536
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,799
They're they're promoting a movie, and if you talk about them,

537
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:21,319
then you promote a movie. And and but but it

538
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,599
is exhausting because they're giving a lot of interviews here everywhere,

539
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,799
and as you said, uh, it's not over yet. This

540
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,640
is still going on and uh, it's going to go

541
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,319
on for a long long time. And I do feel

542
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,680
watching the Red Carpet, watching the interviews and everything, I

543
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,240
feel like they're focusing too much on both of them.

544
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:45,680
And I understand they're the main characters, but I feel

545
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:47,839
like the other actors are not getting the same attention

546
00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:52,880
as they are. But anyway, but they're everywhere stars.

547
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's the the movie is going to probably

548
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,559
be the you know, the biggest movie of the year.

549
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,839
So it's not like we're sitting her saying they're they're,

550
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,160
you know, doing it wrong. They're clearly doing it right.

551
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,319
But it's silly and eye roll worthy. And I do

552
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,759
think the two of them, especially Ariana, is going to

553
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:16,519
have to figure out how to extricate themselves from this

554
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,039
when they move on to another project like AAMI. You

555
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:21,359
have adopted a whole new look, a whole new way

556
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,200
of speaking, a whole new way of acting in public,

557
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:26,799
and you're just going to ditch that when the next

558
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:29,519
project comes along, right right, right, right right, and that's

559
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:33,920
going to look incredibly disingenuous to people, but that probably

560
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:35,079
it probably won't matter.

561
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,519
Speaker 2: No, it won't matter because the fans are fans, and

562
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:40,079
they you know, they'll they'll come up with any excuse

563
00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:43,720
to defend them, which is fine, but it's just it's

564
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,359
it's funny. It's kind of like pathetic in a way,

565
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:51,519
but also it's just it. If you watch it like

566
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:54,599
I do, all the videos in the red carpet and everything,

567
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,079
I'm like, oh my god, here we go again. Every

568
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,000
day is something different. But anyway, it's not over yet.

569
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:03,279
They're wearing I have to say, they're wearing credible things,

570
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:06,799
and it's interesting. That's you know, that's the part I

571
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:09,359
like about the Red Carpet, because they're wearing amazing things.

572
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,039
Ariana Grande's wearing all these archival pieces, and you know,

573
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:16,599
it's all big. It's very very big. It goes to

574
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,599
go with the movie, which is also very big.

575
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: They're doing their jobs and our job is to rollerrize

576
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,559
at them. So good for them, and I hope they

577
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:27,920
make tons of money. All right, we're going to take

578
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,440
a show break and then we're coming back to talk

579
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,119
about Kiss of the Spider Woman. We'll be right back.

580
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,119
We're back, and now we're going to give you a

581
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,039
review of Kiss of the Spider Woman. I I don't

582
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:43,799
think we're going to spoil anything. No, I'm not going

583
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,960
to give away what happens at the end of the film,

584
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,480
you know, the fate of all the characters or whatever.

585
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:52,960
So we'll keep that. You shouldn't have to worry about

586
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,119
being spoiled in this review. First off, there's not a

587
00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:57,440
lot of twist and turns in the story. It's very basic. Secondly,

588
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,400
it's a remake of a forty year old film. Well,

589
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:02,839
it's a musical remake of a forty year old film.

590
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,200
So all right, when this was announced and we saw

591
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:11,400
the first trailers for it, I was excited. I've said

592
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,400
this before about j Lo. I know how silly she

593
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,480
can be, but she's one of those stars I'm kind

594
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:24,119
of always rooting for. To me, she probably hasn't has

595
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,480
been one of those stars that has inspired the whole

596
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:31,559
Tee Low brand the most. There's probably five five or

597
00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:34,359
so stars. She's one of them. I think Kate Blanchette

598
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:37,519
would be another one, Lupite Nyango. You know, there's certain people.

599
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,160
J Loo has always been you know, if you ever

600
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,160
if you know, you're Telo Lure. Our first book was

601
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,839
Everyone Wants to Be Me Or Do Me? Tom Lorenzo's

602
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,200
Guide to Celebrity Life and Style, and it was a

603
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:57,920
you know, satirical look at circa twenty ten celebrity culture.

604
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:00,559
And she informed a lot of that book. A lot

605
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:04,880
of her celebrity persona informed a ton of that book.

606
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:08,079
And she's come in for a lot in the last

607
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:12,079
several years. Her she you know, had a big, splashy

608
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,960
reunion with Ben Affleck and then that marriage flopped, and

609
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,880
she's had a series of movies flop and she actually

610
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880
had to cancel a tour because she wasn't selling any tickets.

611
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:25,839
And I feel bad for her.

612
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: I do.

613
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't think j Loo has done anything terrible. She

614
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,799
hasn't been canceled or anything like that. She's just faded

615
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,839
as a star and she's trying to find you know,

616
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,480
she is something like fifty five years old. She looks

617
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,000
fifteen years younger, but she's trying to hold on to some.

618
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,559
Speaker 2: Sort of career.

619
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: And I guess I feel a little bit because I

620
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,240
also think she has come up against the limits of

621
00:33:48,279 --> 00:33:52,599
her own talent. I think j Lo is talented, but

622
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,920
she was never a world class actress. Middle Yeah, she

623
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,839
was always mid level. And it's to me, it's always

624
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:03,240
kind of impressive what she's managed with that mid level talent.

625
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:04,839
Speaker 2: It's like Madonna, you know, well.

626
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: It it reminds me of a lot of old time

627
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:11,679
movie stories, like these people who were not necessarily the

628
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,239
greatest actresses in the world, but they knew how to

629
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,280
develop a persona and sell it to the public.

630
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: They knew how to carve a yeah for them, and

631
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:24,239
Jlo has done that yeah yeah, And I'm I'm pressed

632
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,000
by her work ethic her commitment to the bit.

633
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: So when this movie was announced and we saw it,

634
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,679
I was like, Oh, great, she's going to get her

635
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,519
comeback moment. This looks like Oscar bait and I just

636
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,440
want her to do an Oscar campaign because she'll just,

637
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:45,079
you know, tear it up. She seemed perfect for the material,

638
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,679
although I had some reservations because I was like, well,

639
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,320
it isn't my place as a white person to question

640
00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:02,000
Jlo's connection to Latin culture, but well, she is Latin.

641
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:04,920
She is Latin, of course she is. But her persona

642
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,159
is very middle of the road, and this is an

643
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,079
extremely Latina part. It requires her to really tap into

644
00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:14,920
her Latina's self. And I was like, is that the

645
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,599
Is that the first actress I would pick for that role.

646
00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:20,079
I'm not sure it would be, but I wanted her

647
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:23,599
to do. I wanted this to be a success for

648
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:29,760
her sake and uh I. We watched it separately. I

649
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,400
watched it first, and then I said, I want you

650
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,159
to watch this because I want us to talk about

651
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:38,119
it because I'm a little disappointed. But before I get

652
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:40,599
into that, I think I want to hear your thoughts

653
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:42,960
because you, I think, actually liked it more than I.

654
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:44,280
Could tell you we're enjoying it.

655
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,039
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I The Kiss of the Spider

656
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:52,280
Woman is the movies, play or whatever. They're all based

657
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:59,079
on a book written by Manuel Pui and and it's

658
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:01,559
a very famous book, very very famous book. I read

659
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:03,599
the book when I was a teenager. I was obsessed

660
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,960
with the book because it's a story of a political

661
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,440
prison who has to share as out with a queer guy.

662
00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:18,679
So that fascinated me. Of course as a teenager. You know,

663
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,760
as a teenager you want to read about these stories,

664
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,639
you want to read about, you know, queer people, and

665
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,239
this was a very famous book. I read it, loved it,

666
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,679
was obsessed with it. And then they made a movie

667
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:37,360
back in nineteen eighty five, which was kind of interesting.

668
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,880
I thought it was cool, was great.

669
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,079
Speaker 1: William Hurt won the Oscar.

670
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: Yes, and then Sony Braga, the very famous Brazilian actress,

671
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:48,719
played the part of the Spider Woman, so it was

672
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,920
an interesting project. I was thrilled because I read the

673
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,000
book and I loved it, and so I know these

674
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:58,679
characters really well. And when they announced that Jennifer Lopez

675
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,239
was going to play the part, I actually were thrilled

676
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,079
because I felt like she is the she embodies everything

677
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:07,239
that the character is about. The carry is about this

678
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,800
Hollywood glimmer, you know, woman star, and that's what Jenni

679
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:12,480
Philipps is.

680
00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: And you know it's a singing and dancing, singing.

681
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,679
Speaker 2: And dancing part. And so I thought it was a great, great,

682
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,960
perfect and I do feel that Jennifer Lopez can't do

683
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:26,119
that kind of stuff. And and as you mentioned, you know,

684
00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:30,280
she's trying very hard to get nominated again, you know,

685
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,320
to be taken seriously as an actor and all that.

686
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,320
And I was like, okay, great, great project. The thing

687
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,159
is that at the same time, I have to be

688
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,320
very honest here. When I hear about a project like this,

689
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:46,400
I get very excited about it because it's being made,

690
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,719
and I think things like that need to be made.

691
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,000
We can't all have like you know, comic book, you know,

692
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:58,639
movies all the time. We need to have projects like that.

693
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,960
But it felt and if theuse because the first of all,

694
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,000
I feel like the story, if you do the book

695
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,519
is a little dated. It needs to be updated. And

696
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,960
when you update the story, I don't feel like you

697
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:13,000
have the story anymore. In a way.

698
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: Unpack that, Why do you feel it needs to. It's

699
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,480
set in nineteen eighty three. I don't feel that it

700
00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,039
needed or was update, I know.

701
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 2: But it feels like like, for example, the movie went

702
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,280
more in a non binary type of description of the character,

703
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:33,639
as opposed to a flame all it gay man in

704
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:39,480
the book. Yes, the the political prison in the book

705
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:42,760
is a lot more macho than the character presented in

706
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,800
the book. In a movie, I felt like he was

707
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,519
a little more softened than the actual character.

708
00:38:48,679 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Diegaluna was cast in the part that Rabul Julia

709
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,880
played in the and Raoul Julia was a big, strapping

710
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,840
Latino man and Daga Luna is a small, elegant looking

711
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:04,440
Latino man. And many people I read reviews where they

712
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,000
people several critics said that he was miscast in the part,

713
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:09,719
and I was like, well, I thought he was good.

714
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,159
And then you pointed out that that character is supposed

715
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:14,039
to be big in macho and everything, and I was like,

716
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,000
all right, I get that, I thought he was good.

717
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,000
Let's get I'm sorry, go ahead.

718
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 2: The character is supposed to be very conflicted about the

719
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,119
whole thing, even though they have some sort of relationship

720
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:28,880
in the cell, But in the movie, it feels like

721
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,039
way more open.

722
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,119
Speaker 1: Way more romantic, way more romantic.

723
00:39:32,639 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: Than it actually is supposed to be. There are several

724
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:37,199
things I.

725
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:39,599
Speaker 1: Think that perhaps, yes, I see what you're getting at now,

726
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,079
and I think that perhaps in a modern era, the

727
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:46,199
director Bill Condon did not want to explore them. One

728
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,159
of the characters he would have been homophobic by modern standards,

729
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,039
and so they didn't make him.

730
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: They didn't want that.

731
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, and that's fine because that

732
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:57,800
actually does take some of the edge off of the story.

733
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,599
So I want to into some of my critiques about

734
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,800
this movie. I do want to say the reason I

735
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,960
feel bad is because Jaylo's great. Do you agree she's

736
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:08,480
good in it?

737
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:12,119
Speaker 2: She is. I think she is fantastic when she's dancing,

738
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:13,239
when she's singing.

739
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,119
Speaker 1: Everything, she's worrying at everything.

740
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:15,679
Speaker 2: Everything works.

741
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: She's glamorous as hell and hell sanely glamorous.

742
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: As the character needs to be because the character the

743
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,280
character is pretty much a character created by Molina the

744
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:27,360
queer guy.

745
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: So it's in his head. It's always in his head.

746
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:34,519
Speaker 2: He has this idea of this fantastic, flawless woman, right,

747
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:35,679
and that's what she is.

748
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she is. So I mean In some ways,

749
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,920
it's the perfect part for j Lo because all that's

750
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,039
required of her is to be incredibly glamorous on screen

751
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:46,880
and to sing and dance, and it actually does not

752
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,239
require this is going to sound really bitchy. It doesn't

753
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,760
require much acting from her. She doesn't have like big

754
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,960
emotional scenes, and when she does, she's playing a pastiche

755
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:59,280
character that's in another character's head, so the emotion like

756
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,360
there is a scene where she cries and gets upset,

757
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,000
but it's done in that very nineteen forties musical style.

758
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,559
This is what I really want to get into. The

759
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:12,360
film is, in my opinion, poorly directed by Bill Condon,

760
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,199
and it's a shame because he's the director of Chicago.

761
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,000
You would think this is someone who really knows how

762
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,480
to handle this material. There is such a lackluster feel

763
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:24,920
to the whole thing that I kept sitting through it

764
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,079
going why did you make this movie? It feels like

765
00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:29,159
you didn't want to make this movie, or it feels

766
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:31,920
like you're not really feeling this material at all, You're

767
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,719
just making your way through it. My number one thing,

768
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,320
and you know this is it might seem like a

769
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,159
surface thing to you, but to me, it's like, if

770
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:47,039
you're going to do a film like this where you

771
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:52,840
are constantly cutting to a pastiche of nineteen forties Latin

772
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,480
American MGM musicals, you know, the kind of Carmen Miranda

773
00:41:56,559 --> 00:42:01,280
style things, and that is who she's She is playing

774
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,840
a pastiche. It's not really Carmen Miranda. It's like a

775
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,599
pastiche of like twenty different Latin American screen sirens of

776
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,039
the nineteen forties. But if you're going to do that,

777
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:13,840
and you're going to cut to these scenes that are

778
00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:18,119
basically recreations of nineteen forties musicals, you got to get

779
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:20,840
that right. And the reason you have to get that

780
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,239
right is because the nineteen forties MGM musical aesthetic is

781
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:30,039
extremely well established, and it has been parodied and pastiched

782
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:33,639
and recreated hundreds of times in the years since of

783
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,840
MGM's heyday. It's not a difficult thing to recreate the

784
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,360
look of a nineteen forties musical because so many people

785
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,800
have already done that recreation that anybody who does it

786
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,639
in twenty twenty five has a whole book to show

787
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,280
them how to do it. And right from the very

788
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,840
second they showed they cut to a scene from them like,

789
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,079
that's not what that's not what musicals look like in

790
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:59,719
the forties. It looked the sets look like TV sets

791
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,079
for some strange reason. The lighting is very flat TV lighting,

792
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:07,000
it seems like, and again like Bill Condon should know

793
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:09,960
this a little bit better. It seems like the idea was, well,

794
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,159
when we do the nineteen forties, it should be super

795
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:16,199
super colorful because that's you know, technicolor, and that's literally it. Like,

796
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:22,400
the scenes are all so eye searingly colorful, and that

797
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:24,519
seems to have been all that they did to I mean,

798
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,960
some of the sets look like Carol Burnett show sets.

799
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,760
To me, they look like you know, or RuPaul's drag races.

800
00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: Like and now sketches. Yeah, they do.

801
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,519
Speaker 1: They look like TV sets. And I'm thinking that was

802
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,480
partially deliberate, like a wink wink they all had. They

803
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:43,239
worked on sets in studios. It's on a sound stage.

804
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,599
It's not real. But again, I am very well versed

805
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:50,159
in MGM musicals of the forties, and yes, those things

806
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:53,079
were sets and the backdrops were painted, but they were

807
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:56,880
also elaborate as hell. They were breathtaking sets. They didn't

808
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:57,559
look cheap.

809
00:43:57,639 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing I think he missed understood showing

810
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,480
fake sets exactly cheap sets. I think fake and cheap

811
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:08,519
here because because if you look at movies from the

812
00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:12,519
photies and even fifties, they are you can tell.

813
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: That they don't look cheap.

814
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: You know they're fake, but they are insanely beautiful and

815
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,679
well made and well created. You know, a lot of

816
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,719
money spent. And so you have this, You have Jennifer

817
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,320
Lopez doing her best singing and dancing. But then you

818
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,360
look around. The set looks so cheap. The clothes, the

819
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,039
costumes look very.

820
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: Very cheap, and her weg is bad.

821
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: Bad. You almost see the underneath her head and also

822
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:45,400
underneath the week I mean, and uh, and the also

823
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:49,320
the the light you mentioned the lights, flat television light.

824
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 1: Everything is so not disappointing to say.

825
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 2: And so so and and of course, if you're telling

826
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,800
the story, they are in prison in a horrible, shitty environment.

827
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:04,639
Speaker 1: But that was a very dramatically art directed prison. I'm sorry.

828
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,079
Their cell was charming in a way, and I'm like,

829
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,480
that's kind of wrong. So the cell looks like a

830
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,639
friend's apartment, a theater stage. It looks like a theater stage. Yeah,

831
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,840
it looks very very clean, and very evansive like and

832
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,079
like they can walk around and I'm like, no, that

833
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,840
should be a tiny little cell where they can barely move.

834
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: So the prison is too clean. The the the illusion,

835
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:33,000
the you know, the the musicals and all that in

836
00:45:33,079 --> 00:45:36,840
his head are not glamorous enough. So that part was very,

837
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,599
very disappointing.

838
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: It really was. Can I I'm sorry, I don't mean

839
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:40,960
to keep it around.

840
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,599
Speaker 2: No, no, I have And then yeah, the the I have

841
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:47,679
to say and I want to do. I'm not giving

842
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,239
anything away, but the scenes outside the prison they were beautiful.

843
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,400
They were extremely nice done, nicely done. The city, the closed,

844
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,039
the costumes, they put.

845
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: Him on a time and place a car. Yeah, Argentina

846
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,360
in nineteen eighty three. Not that I have a ton

847
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:04,000
of references.

848
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,599
Speaker 2: Well, I've been to weird Heady, So I have to

849
00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:10,079
say that I'm not giving anything away. But the last scene,

850
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,719
actually I got all choked up because it's shot in

851
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,199
a way that it just looked beautiful and they really

852
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,239
capture what the book is talking about anyway, So that's that.

853
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: But I just wanted a couple more things. I feel

854
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:31,599
like the film missed the mark on looking at it

855
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:35,000
through a queer lens. If this is Molina's view of

856
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:39,519
nineteen forties musical, and Molina is, by the language of today,

857
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:45,119
a non binary queer man, I would I would think

858
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,360
that a director would want those reminiscences of his to

859
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,800
be a little gayer. And that is why I think

860
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,960
I'm so disappointed with the look of that nineteen forties era,

861
00:46:56,119 --> 00:47:01,320
because you are recreating a nineteen forties musical through the

862
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,960
eyes of a queer man forty years later. It's his

863
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,679
version of it, So it just it should have been

864
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,239
a lot more sparkly. It should have been a lot

865
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,880
more glamorous. It should have really sold the difference between

866
00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:21,360
the glamour of these fantasies and the degradation of that cell.

867
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,960
And it didn't because the cell looked, really looked nicer

868
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,440
than it was supposed to, and the MGM scenes looked

869
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,280
shittier than they were supposed to, right, So that juxtaposition

870
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:33,840
never actually worked, and I never felt like I was

871
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:39,039
watching a queer man's recreation of MGM. I was watching

872
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:41,760
a straight man trying. I don't even know Bill Condon

873
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,719
is straight, actually, but I just didn't think the film

874
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,519
had enough of a queer sensibility.

875
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: To write the original character is very very much a

876
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:56,840
gay man and sort of like a very flamer, Yes,

877
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,440
very flamboyant.

878
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: I didn't like Hurts portrayal actually, and it kind of

879
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,559
fucked me up as a teenager who's trying to figure

880
00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:06,760
himself out right, but he's supposed.

881
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: To wear a lot of makeup where you know, look

882
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,320
a lot more like I don't know someone who's because

883
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,760
he talks about it. It's it's funny because the character

884
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,960
in the movie, the character is about like he wanted

885
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,920
to be a woman, and then you look at him

886
00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:23,320
and you or them, depending on how you want to

887
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,119
see it, and you don't see it right someone you

888
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:29,760
know leaning that way. So there are a lot of

889
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,880
things that don't make say it. I still enjoy the

890
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,239
movie because, like I said, I can recommend the book.

891
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's disappointing, but I can recommend it if you

892
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:42,280
want to see j Lo giving it her everything. Tonatilla,

893
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,840
the who plays Molina, and this is his first big

894
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:49,519
movie role. As far as I know, they he I

895
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,960
think he is. He goes by And as far as

896
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:55,519
they're amazing in it, they are fantastic in it, and

897
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:59,880
really it's their film. They are the center of that film. Uh,

898
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,199
do you disagree?

899
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,639
Speaker 2: Your Ma is absolutely fantastic.

900
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: I thought he was wonderful.

901
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:12,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great character, all of them. Valentine is

902
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:13,639
too soft. Sorry, too soft.

903
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Diego's character.

904
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's supposed to be more like a macho guy.

905
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: There wasn't enough of it. You're looking at two sort

906
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,719
of slightly built Latino men, and there wasn't enough of

907
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,199
a dichotomy with how they look.

908
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: And Valentine the character is supposed to be bitter, angry,

909
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:33,960
and yes, Diego Luna had a little bit of that,

910
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:37,320
but not enough to make a distinction there. Because they're

911
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,320
supposed to be black and white. They're supposed to be

912
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,000
completely different, the opposite, right, and they're not. It gets

913
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:47,880
to a point where they're a little too yeah, too closed.

914
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Too similar, too similar. And then I have to address

915
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,840
the elephant in the room, which is that I am

916
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,280
not I was not aware of the musical. I had

917
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,239
never really listened to it or the cast record. I

918
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,159
had never seen it. The song suck. That is a

919
00:50:04,199 --> 00:50:07,000
real problem here is that these I kept waiting for

920
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,000
a decent song, and every single one of them. So

921
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,159
she gives it her all, I gotta say, but not

922
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,519
one of those songs were good in my view.

923
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: So let me ask you a question, because unfortunate I

924
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,639
didn't have time to do my research on that. It's

925
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:22,280
based on the play right, not the book and play.

926
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,559
Speaker 1: Right the movie the movie is based on and in

927
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,679
like ninety three or something like that, Broadway turned it

928
00:50:29,679 --> 00:50:32,440
into a musical. And this is what the movie, I'm.

929
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 2: Sorry, not played music. It's based on the musical.

930
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: With Cheeta Rivera. I believe it won a Tony Award.

931
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:39,599
But I had never heard any of the songs, which

932
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,760
that tells are right there. It's like, in thirty years,

933
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,039
I'd never heard one song from this musical. They suck.

934
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:48,039
I'm sorry, what did you think? I can't even remember

935
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:48,679
any of them?

936
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: No, that sold. The last song is the Spider Woman

937
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:54,000
song is was still great?

938
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,199
Speaker 1: I didn't think? So can I just say, oh, you

939
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,199
know what I'm gonna say, make the point late he's

940
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:04,480
a lazy, lazy directing The line is the Spider Woman

941
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:08,320
in her velvet cape, which she sings several times, and

942
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,039
she's in the Spider Woman costume, which you probably have

943
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:13,440
seen in the film's you know, trailers, or whatever, And

944
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,119
every time she sings that line, she extends her arm

945
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,840
to fan out the cape that she's wearing Jayla, and

946
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,480
the cape is very clearly not velvet, and I don't

947
00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:24,800
mean it's a different textile. I mean it's like this

948
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,000
gossamer seat throw thing. And they kept doing that and

949
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,480
I'm like, nobody involved stopped and said, oh wait, she's

950
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,079
not wearing a velvet cape. Like, nobody involved, not the

951
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:39,159
system designer, not Jela, not the director, nobody. Then there's

952
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:45,559
another moment where Molina is narrating a scene from a

953
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,119
nineteen forties musical. So you're watching j Lo on a

954
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:51,679
colorful set and people are dancing, and this bad girl

955
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,800
character Jlo's rival comes in and he's narrating this and

956
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,360
I can't remember what her rival's name comes in and

957
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:04,199
suddenly everybody stopped, and on screen, nobody stopped. Everyone is

958
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,320
still dancing, and I'm just like.

959
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 2: Missed opportunity, just lazy.

960
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:12,119
Speaker 1: You're literally not paying attention to what you're putting on

961
00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:15,079
the screen. That's right that and I know it's not

962
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,320
you know, oh her cape wasn't velvet. Well, okay, that's

963
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,719
not That's not a make or break thing with a film.

964
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,320
But it really indicates how lackluster this direction was and

965
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,639
how everybody involve the costume designer. Nobody, nobody said, shouldn't

966
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:30,840
we put her in a velvet cape?

967
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 2: Anyway. My biggest disappointment, it's a little bit of a

968
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:40,960
spoiler here, is that in the book Molina the Queer Guy, Uh,

969
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:47,719
he recounts several movies. And this is pretty in in jaylyb.

970
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,159
Now it's just it's one big movie.

971
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: And it doesn't make any sense.

972
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:53,199
Speaker 2: It doesn't make it say, because what he was trying

973
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,639
to do the director was to sort of like, uh, intersect,

974
00:52:57,679 --> 00:53:02,639
I guess the the their story with the movie Molina

975
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,280
was recounting, and that's not what happens in the book,

976
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,239
which is a big disappointment because I was like, oh

977
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,519
my god, the Molina recounts like, I don't know, six

978
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:14,480
or five or six movies. I would wanted to see

979
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:18,119
all this variety, you know, all these changes of costume.

980
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: Well, they didn't want to spend money. Apparently it was

981
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:21,440
such a cheap looking product.

982
00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 2: Sow. I was hoping that we would see more of that,

983
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:27,280
because that's the wonderful thing about the book. Please read

984
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,960
the book if you're interested, is that when you're reading

985
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,719
the book, you just become like, so, you know, distracted

986
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,559
and fascinated by all these movies that that Molina is

987
00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:42,280
talking about. So every story is a different movie, and

988
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,039
I didn't see that. So that was a disappointment for me.

989
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,079
But I still enjoyed the movie again because I'm a

990
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:52,480
fan of the book and I'm always I'm a big

991
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,239
supporter of telling stories like that. Although when the critics

992
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,480
were saying, well, you know it's going nowhere, I was

993
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:02,639
a bit the appointed. But I never expected that this

994
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,239
kind of movie to get, you know, big, because it's

995
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:06,719
it's a queer story. Now.

996
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:10,119
Speaker 1: I just expected it to be better. Yeah, I can,

997
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,800
you know, catch it over the holidays. I'm not saying

998
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,760
it's terrible. I was just disappointed in it, And like

999
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,360
I said, j Lo just gives it everything she has,

1000
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,639
and she deserved better. She deserved a better movie for

1001
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,480
all the work she was putting into it.

1002
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 2: It's interesting because she's she's one of the producers, so

1003
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:31,280
I was a little surprised. Like the velvet the cape thing,

1004
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,880
that would have been something a.

1005
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: Lot of people involved are like, I don't know, they

1006
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:39,639
didn't seem to be paying attention to the final product anyway.

1007
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,880
That's our take on Kissing Spider Woman, and I think

1008
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,440
that's it for this week. We will be back next

1009
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,599
week with whatever crosses our eyes or crosses our desks.

1010
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:50,719
Until then, take care of yourselves, love you mean it.

1011
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 2: But by

1012
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,119
Speaker 1: The Creek and Advising Week in Advice Back Creek also

1013
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,920
present UK to Extension