WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.240 --> 00:00:04.559 Oh hey, it's your friend's new baby who looks kind 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:06.879 of like a turtle, but in the best way. Ali 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.400 Ward back with another episode of Ologies. We're rounding the 4 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:14.320 corner to finishing Spookctober, and I meant for this to 5 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:18.199 be the last Halloweeny episode, but guess what. I talked 6 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.120 to this ologist for three frickin hours and I'm making 7 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.719 it a double so buckle up for bats, because holy guano, 8 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:27.719 it's ban out. I loved every second I spent with 9 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:31.760 his expert this episode. Next week's episode some of my favorites. Okay, 10 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:33.520 but before we get into it, if you thank you uptop, 11 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.799 including everyone on Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash ologies who 12 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:40.200 supports the podcast. Y'all are the foundation of funding for it. 13 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.079 Thank you to everyone wearing Ologies merch from ologiesmarch dot com. 14 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.320 Thank you to all who make sure they're subscribed, who 15 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:49.719 rate the podcast and keep it up in the charts. 16 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.719 Of course, you folks who leave reviews for me to 17 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:56.000 read like a weird lurking monkey so I can pick 18 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.600 a new one each week, such as the Narn goddess 19 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:02.240 who says from disaster took perfection from entropy to order. 20 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.439 Somehow this podcast encompasses the sacred, the profane, and the 21 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:09.640 mundane in a way that makes us delight in every revelation, 22 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:11.680 and finally, at the end of the day, we emerge 23 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.879 from each episode icky and radiant, like a shiny penny 24 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.719 barfed up by a hagfish. It's absolutely delightful, as are 25 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.120 you the narn Goddess. Thank you for that. Also Rory Watts, 26 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:26.200 who says imposter syndrome is super real and that they 27 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.319 love hearing stories of queer scientists and makes their little 28 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.359 by heart so happy. So anyway, your reviews, I read 29 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:35.519 them and I love them and thank you. Okay, now chiropterology, 30 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.280 are you ready for the best etymology? Maybe? Ever? As 31 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.359 soon as I saw this word, I was like, well, 32 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:44.480 I'm going to have to start a podcast the word origin. 33 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:48.400 I feel like it rivals pharaoh equinology, which was iron 34 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.480 horses the study of trains as like the best first date, 35 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.680 awkward dinner party, stuck in an elevator for a few 36 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.040 hours killing time trivia. Ever? Okay you ready probably not, 37 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.319 but here we go. So Cairo means hand, So think 38 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:05.760 a chiropractor practices with their hands, So cairo hand and 39 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:12.039 put terr like pterodactyl means wing, so Chiroptera bats have 40 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.879 hand wings. They have hand wings. The wings are made 41 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.840 of hands, so as mammals, these little critters fly around 42 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.159 on the floppy membranes of webbings between their long ass 43 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.639 bony fingers. They've been haunting the night for as long 44 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.080 as sixty million years. They make up twenty percent of 45 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:35.479 all mammal species. They're over fourteen hundred recognized species of bats, 46 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.120 and we will cover all of them. No, we won't, 47 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.039 but we're going to do our best. So I heard 48 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.199 of this ologist through a CBS Innovation Nation story I 49 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.639 did about bathouses called bat B and B's. And as 50 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:48.599 soon as I heard his name and saw a picture 51 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.240 of him in the nineteen seventies with a pushbrew mustache 52 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:54.479 and a headlamp feeding fruit to a megabat, I thought, 53 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:56.639 I need to meet this person. I need to befriend 54 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.319 them at all costs. And I've been like a thirteen 55 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.680 year old girl on a mission to meet her k 56 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:04.800 pop idols. I would accept no other bat expert for 57 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.719 this topic. So he's been working in this field for 58 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.319 over five decades, has written several books for lay people 59 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.560 about bats, including the Secret Lives of bats and America's 60 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:19.439 Neighborhood bats. And I'll link those on my website and 61 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.680 in the show notes. He has published so many academic 62 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.360 papers on bats, I wouldn't know where to begin listing them. 63 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.599 He has lectured all over the world. So in September, 64 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.080 I got myself to Austin, Texas, and I headed to 65 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.879 this ologist's home office. Okay, I'm in front of Merlin's house. 66 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:45.039 What's whole residents? This is so exciting. Okay, my hotel coffee. 67 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.080 I'm sweating. It's a million degrees in Austin. 68 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:51.360 I just I look. 69 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:55.120 Sweaty, so nervous. I met his wonderful wife, Paula in 70 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:57.280 the driveway. She led me in him. 71 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.560 How hard you title? 72 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:02.719 It's lovely to meet you. I'm Ali Ward. This is 73 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:04.639 a dream come true to talk to you about bats. 74 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.159 I can't even tell you. This is far from his 75 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:11.759 first media appearance. This dude is America's chiropterology darling, the 76 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.000 go to for back questions the world over. He's even 77 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.240 appeared on David Letterman in nineteen eighty four because of 78 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:20.839 his bat knowledge. 79 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.160 This is this bat, and you see how small he is. 80 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.800 This bat is the one that sends thousands of otherwise mature, grown, 81 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.920 brave men cowering, running in. 82 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:32.839 Tear every year. 83 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:35.480 I know of two cases in the last few months 84 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:39.680 in Wisconsin. One man broke his leg falling downstairs getting 85 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:40.839 away from one of these guys. 86 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.839 One broke his arm swinging a tennis racket around a 87 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.120 door jam. How can I You can touch it? 88 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.279 I don't want to hold him now, you got to admit. 89 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:51.480 So I winged it. Oh, I was nervous. We talked 90 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.759 for three hours. So this episode is broken into two 91 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.759 weeks and we cover what is a bat? How big 92 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.720 are they? How small are they? Will they attack? Why 93 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.399 are people so scared of them? How do they evolve 94 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.160 to fly? How do they sleep upside down? How scary 95 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:09.759 are caves? Which ones guzzle blood? How do they protect 96 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:12.680 us from mosquitoes? Can you train a bat? Why are 97 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.680 they so cute? What's the deal with guano? The latest 98 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.240 on white nose syndrome, which is not a drug problem. 99 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:21.720 What is the best time and place to see bats? 100 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.439 And how can you help bats by letting them crash 101 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.839 in your place? Kind of So hang tight for part 102 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.040 one and get ready to have a new favorite bat 103 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:38.279 expert with conservationist explore Icon, National Treasure and chiropterologist doctor 104 00:05:38.480 --> 00:06:01.240 Merlin Tuttle. Do you make people address you as doctor 105 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:01.839 bat Ever? 106 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:04.279 No, but there are a lot of people on this 107 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.319 planet who know me only as the Batman. 108 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.720 That's not a bad that's not a bad nickname to have. 109 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.720 When I was working years ago studying bats in the 110 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:19.959 backwoods of Tennessee, the hill Billy moonshiners were always watching 111 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.839 out for revenuers. And when I would drive into the 112 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.839 final hollow where they had their moonshine, which I pretended 113 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:30.000 not to know where it was en route to my 114 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.600 bat caves, I would hear them yell across the hallow 115 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:38.079 to each other, the Batman's are coming. And I don't 116 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:39.600 think they ever knew my real name. 117 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:42.040 That's pretty appropriate. 118 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.879 It was funny, you know, these guys, they had a 119 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:51.480 coat of ethics among themselves. It was very strict. You know, 120 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:57.000 you turn in a fellow to the revenuers or something, 121 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.000 and you deserve to die on the spot. It was. 122 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:05.920 These weren't. These were tough guys, but they the moment 123 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.399 I started studying bats in a cave near where they 124 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.879 were making moonshine. They were down trying to figure out 125 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.480 who I was and what I was doing, and I 126 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.680 welcomed them and showed them how I put bands on 127 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:20.680 the bats and explained that some of them are coming 128 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.399 all the way from Florida to the Virginia Tennessee border 129 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:28.120 to go hibernate in that cave. And they were so excited. 130 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:30.639 They ended up bringing their wives down to see me 131 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:33.720 ban bats the next night, and I ended up being 132 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.600 really good friends with them. And the next winter, as 133 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.360 I was still coming every ten days to trap at 134 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:47.800 the entrance, I was leaping out in my car, and 135 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:50.399 they became very concerned. You know, I shouldn't be out 136 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.959 there in the snowy cold, and so they started inviting 137 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.920 me to come. They're very poor. The home that they 138 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.839 had was so poor that if you, they said, we 139 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.680 couldn't more than three of us go in the kitchen 140 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:04.439 at the same time that the floor might fall in. 141 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.879 And I stayed with them a few nights, but then 142 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.959 I realized that Hugh Kyle, the primary moonshiner among them, 143 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:16.680 slept with a sawed off shotgun in his bed in 144 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.199 case the revenuers came at night. I decided I didn't 145 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.879 want to sleep in the middle of a possible battle. 146 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.519 Oh no, Oh my gosh. As the batman, you weren't 147 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.360 about to do any crime fighting, Oh my gosh. And 148 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.320 so your work is probably primarily nocturnal when you're out 149 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.440 doing field work, or how much of it is nocturnal? 150 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:39.200 How much of it is. 151 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.720 A lot of it's nocturnal? More than I would like 152 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:45.639 it these days? 153 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:47.799 Someone calling the bat line, that's the batphone. 154 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:54.200 Huh well, I mean, if it wasn't probably considered unethical 155 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.440 or illegal, it would be fun for you to listen 156 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:58.879 in on one of these calls from somebody who's terrified, 157 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:00.639 thinks they're about to dive. Right, he's because the bat 158 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:01.639 got near him last night. 159 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:06.799 Oh so he unplugged the batphone. And we continued going 160 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.159 back in your history. You were born in Hawaii, right, 161 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.919 and now when did you make the move from the 162 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.399 island to the mainland and did you grow up around 163 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.200 caves at all? 164 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:21.039 I grew up going into lava tubes in Hawaii. My 165 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.840 father was very interested in exploring the old lava tubes. 166 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.000 But there aren't any bats in caves in Hawaii. I 167 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.320 didn't discover bats until I was at least nine years 168 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.039 old living in California. I really first discovered them when 169 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.759 a classmate in the fourth grade brought a dead one 170 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.799 to school. Cool. We were all curious and looked at it, 171 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:45.720 and I took it home and made a steady skin 172 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.639 out of it. At age nine, a mammalogist came to 173 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:55.039 my school to speak about his research on small mammals 174 00:09:55.120 --> 00:10:00.519 in the jungles of Central America, and I am imediately 175 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:06.679 I never forget. I thought, Wow, you mean a scientists 176 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:10.039 actually get paid to go have fun adventures in the jungle. 177 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:11.480 That's what I want to do. 178 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.360 That's amazing. So you were inspired from just being a 179 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:16.879 wei one. 180 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:21.679 So from age nine I got acquainted with the scientists 181 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.120 who lectured at my school. He told me about a 182 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:25.720 book I could get that would teach me how to 183 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.200 be a memologist, and I started preparing study skins and 184 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.039 trading specimens with museums. 185 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.039 Oh my gosh, So even in high school you were 186 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.000 starting to work on this kind of in an almost 187 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:39.399 professional sense, right. 188 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.200 Well, I actually it was only age of nine when 189 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:42.279 I started doing this. 190 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:43.159 Oh my god. 191 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.200 I started taking accurate field notes and really getting serious. Actually, 192 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.440 I published my first two or three papers based on 193 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:53.759 high school work. 194 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.240 You're like the Doogie Howser of bats. 195 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:58.840 Douglas Doogie Houser is a whiz kid. 196 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:03.639 You're like akin like a baby bat genius. Did you 197 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.840 ever did you ever waiver in terms of what you 198 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.360 wanted to do? Did you ever say, like, maybe I'll 199 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.480 go into farming, or maybe I'll be a nurse or 200 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:13.559 was it bats from age nine? 201 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.720 Well, it starts way back before that. I mean, I 202 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:21.919 was clearly a nature buff you know, from the beginning, 203 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.320 from the time I could talk. I mean, when I 204 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.120 was less than two years old, I knew when a 205 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.720 bonner butterfly was about to hatch from its pupa. I 206 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:34.720 would rear the caterpillars on a plant stuck in water 207 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:38.200 in the window, And when a pupa would be about 208 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.440 to hatch, I'd run around the house telling my parents, 209 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.360 you know, come quick, come quick, the butterfly is about 210 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:42.799 to come out. 211 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:43.519 Oh my god. 212 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.120 So I mean, and by the time I was five, 213 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:51.039 my father was big time interested in seashells and collecting 214 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:56.639 and and so by that time I probably knew nearly 215 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.639 all the scientific names of the seashells of Hawaii and 216 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.720 then later I got into snakes, and oh man, I 217 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.639 could tell you stories endlessly about terrorizing my mother and 218 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:14.320 all her friends with my snakes getting loose. And then 219 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.240 I published I think two papers on shrews before I 220 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:18.480 did anything on bads. 221 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:22.320 Oh so, people, it's okay to like a lot of things. 222 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.440 Maybe over time you'll realize a common thread between your interests, 223 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.000 or a way to link them, or do both, or 224 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.200 you'll just figure out which one you truly love the most. 225 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.000 By the time I was nine, there was no question 226 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:38.720 I was going to be a mammalogist, and so all 227 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.879 the way through high school I was out. In fact, 228 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:49.240 this is an interesting part of my story in well, 229 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:53.759 all through college, I barely graduate from college. In fact, 230 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:58.080 I was terrified. The last semester of college. I found 231 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:00.039 out at the last minute that if I didn't have 232 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:02.600 a C average in my miner I couldn't graduate. And 233 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:05.440 I was taking biochemistry and I'm about to flunk it, 234 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.759 And so I stayed around the clock. I'd study for 235 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.639 like an hour and then take a twenty minute nap, 236 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.200 and study for an hour and take a twenty minute nap. 237 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.919 The reason I was terrified I had a job I 238 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.759 was going to go directly from college to being co 239 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.639 director of a four hundred thousand dollars field project for 240 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:26.399 the Smithsonian. 241 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.200 Oh my god, all you needed was that, just that 242 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:29.840 piece of paper. 243 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.519 This was based on the fact that while I was 244 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.080 near flunking out of school, I was becoming a well 245 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:43.120 recognized mammalogist, hanging out with leading mammologists in the field, 246 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.759 learning from them, and skipping classes while I did it. 247 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:50.720 Oh no, And so the funny thing was I finally 248 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:56.240 did graduate, got my job at the Smithsonian, but I'd 249 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.879 been warned that I'd never make it into graduate school 250 00:13:58.879 --> 00:13:59.960 on my lousy grade. 251 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.759 Merlin got a bachelor's in zoology at Andrews University in Michigan, 252 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.679 but he was so focused on field studies of bats 253 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:09.960 that he said they had to twist some arms to 254 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.320 get him admitted to graduate school at the University of Kansas. 255 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:17.399 He was admitted on academic probation, and his admission was 256 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.159 so conditional the school said they might not even keep 257 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.639 him past his masters even if he wanted to. But 258 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.240 he got his master's sure enough in systematics and ecology, 259 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:30.600 studying the zoo geography of Peruvian bats, and then he 260 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:34.639 stayed for his PhD in ecology and evolution. His dissertation 261 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:38.519 was on gray bats, and he graduated with honors, becoming 262 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.360 Doctor Merlin Tuttle in nineteen seventy four. 263 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.720 I gave a commencement address this spring at a school 264 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:49.440 where I point out that you don't sit around and 265 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.200 wait for somebody to tell you how you're going to 266 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.840 get the biggest job opportunities, the most pay that kind 267 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.919 of thing, because it's always going to change. Whatever everybody's 268 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.320 telling the students today is the big job opportunity area 269 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:08.759 will probably be glutted five years from now. Pick what 270 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:13.159 you're passionate about, and if you're passionate about what you've chosen, 271 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.480 you're probably going to be in the top five percent 272 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:19.320 of people doing it, and you'll get a job regardless 273 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.919 of where the job market goes. If you're really passionate 274 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:26.039 about something, you're smart enough to be a success at it. 275 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:32.519 It's not about IQ. It's about dedication and endurance and passion. 276 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:36.320 Oh you thought this was just about bats. Oh no way, never, No, 277 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.840 there's so much self help in here. Oh, get your. 278 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.559 Heart ready, and I've definitely got the passion. 279 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:47.320 And now what is it about? Bats. What drew you 280 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.919 to them? In terms of all the mammals that you 281 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:52.480 could study? 282 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:59.360 Well, I start out studying small mammals in general, particularly shrew's. 283 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.960 Shrews are very very interesting, are they? Oh? 284 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.720 Very Don't worry. I have my eye on a shrewd expert, 285 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.639 Doctor Leslie carowainne Oregon. Come coming for you anyway. When 286 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:14.519 it comes to mammals, how many really fly? We just 287 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.480 have bats and sort of gliding gliding squirrels. 288 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:19.879 Right, Only bats truly fly? 289 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.080 Okay, that's what I thought, Is that one thing you 290 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:22.639 love about them? 291 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.679 Well, I think I could have studied almost anything that 292 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.360 happened to get in my way long enough to keep 293 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.200 me focused for a while. I went through periods when 294 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:39.519 I loved snorkeling on coral reefs, and I could have 295 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:44.679 easily been a marine ecologist. I went through a phase 296 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.799 where I'm collected and identified I think one hundred and 297 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:51.200 sixty species of mosses and liver warts. I love nature, 298 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.879 But I think one of the things that's really made 299 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.759 me much more successful than I could have been otherwise 300 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:01.080 studying bats is I first loved the whole picture all 301 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.480 living things and had a fascination for them, and so 302 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.279 it was much easier than for me to understand where 303 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.799 my animals fit and what their roles were in that system. 304 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:13.920 Sure, so you understood the whole puzzle, and so every 305 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.000 piece in a puzzle becomes really interesting and vital. 306 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:24.680 Yeah, and you know, I get internally, at least rather 307 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:28.559 upset at people who are just focused on a species 308 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.039 or a group. And you've got to save these and 309 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.359 doesn't matter how many others you trample on. These have 310 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.920 got to be saved. And it's not that way. Bats 311 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:46.279 aren't safe until all living things are safe. They're all interlocked, interdependent, 312 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:48.200 and so are we. We don't get out of that. 313 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:54.039 Merlin, come for the bats and stay for the poetic existentialism. 314 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:59.319 He's the best speaking of existence. How do bats define themselves? 315 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.799 What is a bat? How do you define a bat? 316 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:04.160 I know that's a stupid question, but. 317 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:13.279 Well, they nurse their young. Linnaeus, the father of modern taxonomy, 318 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.160 thought that beats were true primates because they had pectorol 319 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.319 instead of England old brass primates. 320 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:24.720 Okay, this is the flying primate hypothesis, and it relates 321 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.559 to the flying fox, which is a fruit eating megabat 322 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:33.079 as opposed to the smaller insect munching microbats. So side 323 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:37.000 note none of them are blind as a bat. These 324 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.880 little winged fluff muffins have pretty good eyesight, and microbats 325 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:46.440 use incredible echolocation sonar to hunt for bugs. But revered 326 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:51.319 Australian neuroscientist and vision researcher Jack Pettigrew, who sadly passed 327 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.160 away earlier this year, had made an interesting discovery about 328 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.440 megabat brains and vision. 329 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.839 He discovered that all flying foxes have crossing over neurons 330 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:08.319 between the eyes and the midbrain. The yeah, thousands of 331 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.359 neurons that go between your eyes and your midbrain, and 332 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:17.079 in primates they cross over between the two sides, and 333 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:21.279 in no other mammal do they. So that was the diagnostic. 334 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.000 You know, if it has crossing over, it's a primate. 335 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.440 If it doesn't, it's not. That was accepted for most 336 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.079 of the history of paleontology. And then Jack found that 337 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.559 all flying foxes had to cross in over neurons like primates, 338 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.599 and all of a sudden they threw out the rule. 339 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.519 I had the good fortune of happening to speak with 340 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:50.519 Jack about a month before he passed away, and he said, well, moron, 341 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.160 it's not going to happen while you and I are 342 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.480 still alive, but it will happen. There'll be a day 343 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.920 when they finally decide that flying foxes are primates. 344 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.200 Oh my god, I had no idea that they were 345 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.079 even up for consideration for it. It's just such an 346 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.640 honor to just be nominated neuronal evolution. 347 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.000 You don't evolve new thousands of new neuronal pathways just overnight. 348 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.519 Those are the slowest parts to evolve. Your fingers may 349 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.559 get longer or shorter, things like that, but your neurons 350 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.680 are pretty stable. So when you find thousands of neurons 351 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.359 that are doing the same things they do in primates, 352 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.000 you should at least take a good look at what 353 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:33.680 that might mean. 354 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.960 Yeah, and now, when it comes to the evolution of bats, 355 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.880 where what are their ancestors, what are their relatives? What 356 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:48.000 are these beautiful, very fuzzy skypuppies as they're called come from. 357 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:53.519 That's probably a pretty debatable subject. When I started studying bats, 358 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.960 we recognize just a little over eight hundred species. Now 359 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.599 it's almost fourteen hundred. 360 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.599 There are more and more people maybe going into areas 361 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.359 that haven't been explored or caves or do we have 362 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.359 better technology? Why such a jump in the number of species. 363 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.759 Well, for a very long time, bats weren't very studied. 364 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.759 I mean, you could go through a whole major in 365 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.279 biology and all you'd find out about baths was there 366 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.119 was this order chiropter and they flew and everybody ignored them. 367 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.000 And bats haven't always been the easiest thing to study, 368 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.240 even if you wanted to study them. But with modern technology, 369 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.640 we're coming up with a whole lot more ways of 370 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:35.799 looking at bats. 371 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.640 Okay, So a bat is a mammal covered in fur 372 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.000 that gives birth, to live young, and makes milk, and 373 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:46.160 each one has a little belly button and it's the 374 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.400 only mammal capable of true flight. Also, you know how 375 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.640 their wings are really just big webbed hands. So imagine 376 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.160 if you had a stubby clawed thumb and then your 377 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.519 fingers got longer and longer until you're pinky was as 378 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:04.319 long as your whole body and webbed, and then you 379 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.960 were like later losers and flew away. How badass? Are you? 380 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:09.279 So badass? 381 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:13.000 Also, bats used to be classified by their coat color, 382 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.720 which Merlin says was bunk because some bats are bright 383 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.440 orange in the wild and brown in captivity. Others change 384 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.680 color after their weaned. So yes, actually, speaking of let's 385 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.799 talk about teeny tiny bat babies. Shall we squirmy little 386 00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:33.400 smush faced, seashell eared fuzzy wigglers? Can you walk me 387 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.799 through a little bit of a life cycle of a bat? 388 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.000 Well, it's very different for different kinds of bats. Most 389 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:46.119 bass produced just one puppy year, and that's part of 390 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:52.119 why they're so easily threatened with extinction. They form the 391 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.839 largest aggregations of any mammal except Homo sapiens. Oh wow, 392 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:01.079 And they not only form these huge aggregations in very 393 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:05.160 vulnerable places like caves, but they only produce one puppy 394 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:09.920 year per mom. Their program for long life span, forty 395 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.960 plus year old bats have been found. 396 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.599 What that's crazy. I didn't know that they could live 397 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.000 that long. 398 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.559 They're the longest lived mammals on the planet for their size. 399 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:24.240 That's not because normally typically isn't there a metabolism of 400 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:28.599 smaller mammals typically shorter and they live they live less time? 401 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.119