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NOPERD is necessary if we 22 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.319 were privitted by laws he terms of Convisions eighteen plus. 23 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.439 You are now listening to true Murder the most shocking 24 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.560 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 25 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:25.920 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 26 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.640 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.920 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 28 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.560 host journalist and author Dan. 29 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:50.680 Zufanski Good Evening, someone you know of or even love 30 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.480 is the person who will kill you. Usually that's true, 31 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.400 but that is not what happened in twenty eighteen to 32 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:02.719 college students in Iowa. Two young women who had everything 33 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.000 to live for killed by two men with nothing to lose, 34 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:11.400 completely random attacks. Neither case had anything else in common 35 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.599 except they both shocked the nation and even the world. 36 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:18.159 What's worse being murdered by a loved one or a 37 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.240 stranger who jumps out of the bushes when you are 38 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:25.120 most vulnerable. Previously published as Will Find You and Let's 39 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.080 Do Murder, The Iowa Murders tells the shocking true crime 40 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:33.479 stories of the senseless deaths of Molly Tibbets and Celia 41 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:40.400 barquin Arosamenna. When Molly Tibbets disappeared on July eighteenth, two 42 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.400 thousand and eighteen, her mother, Laura Calderwood, promised she would 43 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:48.479 never quit searching. For five weeks in the summer of 44 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:52.719 two thousand and eighteen, she searched, and the whole world 45 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.360 watched Brooklyn, Iowa. Because this was more than a murder story, 46 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.800 it also became one of the top political stories of 47 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:05.000 twenty eighteen. Then, just after her killer led police Tomali's 48 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:09.840 body hidden in a cornfield, news of another shocking, senseless 49 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:14.639 homicide came from Iowa. Celia Barquin a Rousamana was ready 50 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.479 to begin the next phase of her life, including a 51 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:22.000 professional career and marriage. Colin Richards only wanted a woman 52 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.639 to rape in murder. Selia had everything to live for 53 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:29.319 and Colin had nothing to lose. They would come together 54 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:34.159 one day in September twenty eighteen. Only one would survive. 55 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.400 This is the shocking true crime story of two communities 56 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:42.520 and two families coming to grips with the worst crime imaginable, 57 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.840 knowing that even if the killers put behind bars today, 58 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:51.199 another could be waiting tomorrow. The book that we're featuring 59 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.199 this evening is The Iowa Murders, a shocking true crime 60 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:58.439 story with my special guest journalist and author Rod Cackley. 61 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:00.319 Welcome back to the program of thanks, thank you very 62 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:01.240 much for this interview. 63 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.520 Rod Cockley, Hi Dan, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 64 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:10.879 Thank you very much for this congratulations on this new release. 65 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.960 Let's get right to July seventeenth, two thousand and eight, 66 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:22.399 and tell us a little bit about this small place, Brooklyn, Iowa, 67 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:29.800 and a little bit about this Molly Tibbets. And she's 68 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:34.199 on her very regular run in the evening. So tell 69 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:39.360 us a little bit about Brooklyn, Iowa and Molly Tibbets. 70 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.160 Brooklyn and Iowa, Dan is a town of about fifteen hundred. 71 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.800 I mean, this is small town America. And Molly's FETs 72 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.360 her earbuds in place. She's going out for an evening 73 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.720 run through the streets of Brooklyn. Now she does it 74 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.279 every night. Even though she's not native to Brooklyn, Iowa. 75 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:58.600 Everyone in town knows her, their use to watching her 76 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.879 run by in the evening. She's so familiar that people 77 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.680 mowing their lungs, are relaxing on their porches will wave 78 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.639 to her as she goes by their houses. And really 79 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:10.480 that's the kind of town to Brooklyn is, where they're 80 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.720 so family they would just wave to someone who may 81 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:18.000 be a stranger to them. 82 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:22.279 Now you talk about her living arrangements and their boyfriend, 83 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.639 Dalton Jack. She's a psychology major at the University of Iowa. 84 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:35.160 Tell us the living arrangements and where her boyfriend and 85 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.879 her brother are at the time when she goes for 86 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:38.759 this run. 87 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.199 Yeah, you're right, Dan, as you said, Molly Timmis is 88 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.439 a psychology major at the University of Iowa. She and 89 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:50.000 their boyfriend, Dalton Jack, are living with his brother now. 90 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.639 Both of them are out of town at the time 91 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.240 on a construction project in another town in Iowa. So 92 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:00.439 Molly is at home alone pretty much now. And you know, 93 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.399 this is a time where she's this is a summer 94 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.079 off from the University of Iowa, and she's young freedom. 95 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.560 She's you know, living on her own, setting up housekeeping 96 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:14.839 with her boyfriend, Dalton, the guy she loves, the plans 97 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.839 to marry, and so this is a big time for her. 98 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:21.839 This is a time of real you know, young freedom. 99 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:23.160 I guess there's a way to put it. 100 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.480 She's also working in the summer at a children's day 101 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.279 camp at a regional medical center and the kids love 102 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.560 her and she loves her job. Everyone thinks she's great. 103 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.319 And she's also when she's running. She uses this fit 104 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:44.439 Bit activity tracker, and she's got a car phone with 105 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:46.759 her on that run. So tell us about a little 106 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:50.480 bit about this run that she does usually goes around 107 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.040 the same route. You say that people in this small 108 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.560 community know who she is. They're very familiar with her. 109 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.759 She's out on this run July seventeen, two thousand and eight. 110 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:05.399 What happens on this normally mundane or routine run of Molly's. 111 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.360 But as you said, Dan, she's carrying a fit Bit 112 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.040 activity tracker and a smartphone. That's very important to remember. 113 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.480 As she's going on her usual run. All of a sudden, 114 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.560 a car another one of the neighbors, Devin Riley, sees 115 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.120 or runs by his house. He's on his portion. He 116 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:26.160 waves the load to her, like he does almost every night. Well, 117 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:29.639 he doesn't see anything unusual that Molly does. Suddenly there's 118 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.680 a car behind her. Now, it's not that unusual to 119 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:34.680 see somebody on the road at this time of the night, 120 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:37.560 but this guy just doesn't give up. You know, she'll 121 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.160 slow down, expecting him to pass her. He doesn't pass her. 122 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.680 He swows down. She runs faster, thinking she can get 123 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:49.199 away from him. He drives faster, so obviously he's following her. 124 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.600 It's a black car, a car that she does not recognize. 125 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.040 When she turns, she decides to turn right and left. 126 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:02.560 He follows her. When she stops running, she stops driving. 127 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.600 Now she's very worried. She's concentrating on the run. She's 128 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.360 a good runner, she's a practice runner, she's a trained runner. 129 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.240 So the fact that she's running, you know, she figures 130 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.680 she can out run this guy if nothing else. She 131 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:21.519 looks back and the car passes her. Finally, finally, the 132 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:25.160 car passes her, so Molly figures everything's okay. She wasn't 133 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.600 staping to be worried, but that only her relief. On 134 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.080 the last moments, the car circles the block, and all 135 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:36.360 of a sudden, it's back behind her again. Finally, she 136 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.360 decides to stop and confront the guy. She is not 137 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:42.759 going to put up with this, and that is in 138 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:46.200 an instant she realizes that she was wrong to do that. 139 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.600 She hears the car door closed, she doesn't look back. 140 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.240 She knows it's trouble. Quickly she's running to Now she's 141 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:57.559 running as fast as she can. She's forgotten about confronting 142 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.240 the guy. She just takes off. She looks back over 143 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.320 her shoulder. She's running even faster. Can't believe is what 144 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:05.159 he sees. The guy thought of his car, and now 145 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.519 he's running after her. She figures that she can outrun him, 146 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:15.360 perhaps even outside him. But she grabs her smartphone and 147 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.000 practically shoves it into the guy's face. He's not a 148 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.960 big guy, a couple inches taller than Molly, about five 149 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:25.440 foot six, thick, black chair, neatly trimmed mustache, and goateee. 150 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:29.320 He grabs her smartphone as she shoves it into his face. 151 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.879 They're running side by side, now matching her pace step 152 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.840 for step. She yells, I'm going to call the police, 153 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:38.519 waving the phone at him. He doesn't back off. You 154 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.440 think he might, but he doesn't. And now it's a 155 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:44.960 real fight. Now this guy is fighting her. She's never 156 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.960 been in a real fight before. And you know, as 157 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.679 I wrote, in the blink of her eyes on the 158 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.399 state of his and the stare of his, she sees 159 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:54.559 the end of her life. 160 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:02.559 Yeah, you right. Then the next July nineteenth, Molly doesn't 161 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.559 show up for work at this medical center. And of 162 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.120 course this is unlike her and Dalton, her boyfriend had 163 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.879 texted her that morning and there was no response, so 164 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.799 he calls her mother, Laura Calderwood. So what happens Devin, 165 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:23.879 our partner, me, Dalton and Molly and the search for 166 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:25.159 her that morning. 167 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.720 Well they start. He's worried immediately. You know, they're young 168 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.960 in love till they're youth, protecting each other, back and forth, 169 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.039 good morning, I love you, that kind of thing. He 170 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:36.879 does that. She does not respond, as she does every day. 171 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.759 So now he's worried he doesn't hear from her. He 172 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.960 tries her again and again. Then he calls her mother, Laura. 173 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:47.879 Laura's worry too, but she's thinking, hey, Brooklyn's too small 174 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.919 to you know. She calls Molly. She's afraid something's wrong. 175 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:59.240 Then work the daycamp center calls Dalton and her. Laura 176 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:02.559 calls the center. All of a sudden, she knows something's wrong. 177 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.360 She's a mother, Laura can just feel it. Something is 178 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:09.399 definitely wrong. Brooklyn doesn't have its own police department, the 179 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:14.519 how she County Sheriff's Office handles law enforcement in Brooklyn, Iowa. 180 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.759 So Laura calls the Sheriff's department. But before she and 181 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.360 before she goes to bed that night, she sends a 182 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.440 text to Molly's phone. She texts, I love you, We're 183 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.919 looking for you. We'll find you no matter what, and 184 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:35.679 she tries to go to sleep. They begin searching for 185 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:40.039 her immediately, and then about ten days later, in Kearney, Missouri, 186 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:42.360 police get a tip. You know, the word goes out. 187 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.759 It's a small town, so you know, the next morning, 188 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.440 everyone knows that Molly's missing. Everybody's involved in the search, 189 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:51.000 and they all volunteering to help. 190 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:58.879 But you have the Iowa Department of Criminal Investigation and 191 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.639 the FBI involved because of this. What they determine ferdie 192 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.240 On is an abduction, don't they correct? 193 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.759 Yeah, the correct They're assuming that it's an abduction. They 194 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.600 don't really have any eyewitnesses, but Chess everything is. They're 195 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:16.480 checking surveillance video from gas stations and convenience doors at 196 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.279 points where the kidnapper might have stopped and wore racing 197 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:22.519 out of town. There is filming that she's been kidnapped. 198 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.320 They get a chip that she was seen at a 199 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.240 gas station that turns out in Kurney, Missouri, about two 200 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.879 hundred and thirty miles away from Brooklyn. That turns out 201 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.519 to be false alarm. Then they go to a hog 202 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.799 farmer's house in Guernsey, asking to search the property without 203 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.960 a warrant. Why that farm, Well, Molly was last being 204 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.000 jogging within a fifteen minute drive of the property. Remember, 205 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:50.159 they can track her cell phone, her smartphone, and they 206 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.120 can track that bit bit tracker, so they have an 207 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.000 idea of where she is. So now they're talking to 208 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:01.080 this farmer, Wayne Cheney, says he doesn't have anything to hide. 209 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.799 He lets the FBI spend a couple of hours inside 210 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:08.200 his house in garage taking photos. The investigative team asks 211 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.360 Wayne to go to the local firehouse with them for 212 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.320 an interview. He does this without a lawyer, and they 213 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:17.519 spend two hours together talking. Wayne tells them, like everybody else, 214 00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:20.720 he's heard about Molly's disappearance, but he's never met her, 215 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:25.000 doesn't know who she is. After this interview, he allows 216 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:27.679 them to keep this cell phone overnight so that they 217 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.600 can check his phone records. The Wayne comes out of 218 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.759 this and talks to a reporter and says he thought 219 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:34.720 it was all a waste of time, but oh well. 220 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.679 After they finished searching the farm, the FBI spends more 221 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.240 time walking through about a mile of dishes near the farm. 222 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.200 Do they have so much interest in the land of 223 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.279 the farmers simply because of the location. But no, there's more, 224 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.639 there's a potential clue. They find their red shirt, not 225 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:54.080 unlike the shirts Molly and the other people who work 226 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.159 at that day camp wear every day. The shirt was 227 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.000 discovered by a guy mowing his lawn near the Wine 228 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:05.559 and Wildlife Reserve, so he called sheriff Sheriff's deputies, and 229 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.360 it turns out that Wayne Chaney, even though this had 230 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:11.320 nothing to do with dollyge Wayne Cheney pled guilty to 231 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.320 stocking charges twice in nine and twenty fourteen, and so 232 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.759 they've got a real interest in Wayne Chaney at this 233 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.639 point and in Wayne's firms. 234 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:27.840 However, they don't find any information or evidence in that 235 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:32.559 extensive search, and he's cooperative, and there are other people 236 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.799 that they looked at. However, what they still were looking 237 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:42.480 at was trying to get video surveillance from the business's 238 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:45.759 local businesses but also other homes. So while they were 239 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:51.399 doing their regular routine investigation, they were still analyzing some 240 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.720 of those and also putting out information to the public 241 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.679 for leads in this case as well. 242 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.159 Didn't they right exactly? And you know, the whole community 243 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.240 starts searching. Four hundred spontaneously started searching the day after 244 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.399 Molly went missing, But the County Sheriff's office says, everybody 245 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.360 stand down. If they're needed. The world go out. It's 246 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:17.639 hard to coordinate four hundred people, and when the police 247 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.799 aren't in charge of it, who knows what they're going 248 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.519 to do, what evidence they might contaminate, for instance, what 249 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.480 crime seems they might contaminate. So they tell people who 250 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.159 are searching to just go home, stand down. If we 251 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.000 need you, we'll put the word out on social media. 252 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.240 So what they do then is, speaking of social media, 253 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.360 they're honing in on Molly's digital footprint. Dozens of search warrants, 254 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.720 their files. They gain access to Molly's social media accounts 255 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:46.080 along with devices like that smartphone and the fifth bit, 256 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.440 and that opens the door to a ton of information. 257 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.600 It's amazing how they can track you and how they 258 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.879 tracked Molly and your movements on that with that smartphone 259 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:56.679 and the fifth bit. 260 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.320 Yeah, it's interesting you you write that via the GPS 261 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:09.399 they could see exactly her running and then traveling later 262 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.039 in a vehicle, because they could make no other conclusion 263 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.919 other than that she was moving so fast, so in 264 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:21.519 almost in for these people, was the evidence more than 265 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:25.039 a very strong circumstantial evidence that this is what happened 266 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.559 to her, and then she was certainly abducted. 267 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:31.159 And exactly right right, Yeah, that first chapter where I 268 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.440 described her run, that really where I described the run 269 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.840 that really is taken from her the GPS information. That's 270 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.399 what the GPS track of shows happen. They're running, the starting, 271 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.720 the stopping, the turning left, the turning right, that kind 272 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.240 of thing. And then what they do is they get 273 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:50.159 on Facebook, Twitter and other social media to figure out 274 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:52.639 the kind of person that Nolly is or the person 275 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.080 that she was, I guess you should say, and they're 276 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:58.919 surprised to see nothing but positive stapments about BOLLI. You know, 277 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.720 there are haters on Facebook, but nobody he's Molly. Everybody 278 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.160 loves this woman. So that brings a whole other thing 279 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.279 into this where they're starting to figure out her personality. 280 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:11.519 Then they want to find out who she has been 281 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.440 chatting with recently, what they talked about, if there's anything 282 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:21.039 that's relevant to the investigation. The team believes right now 283 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.359 that Molly is alive. They're holding out hoping they really 284 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.799 believe that she is alive. The investigative team, I mean 285 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:28.960 to say, they do think she was abducted, but they 286 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.680 believe at this point she is alive. However, people who 287 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:36.519 know her, the people who know Molly, tell the police 288 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:40.200 they cannot believe that Molly was taken without a fight. 289 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.240 They really believe that. Now. Molly is something of an 290 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.960 athlete too, okay, and she may never have been in 291 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.160 a real fight, but she is a strong athletic woman, 292 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.759 and they can't believe that anyone would take her away 293 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.279 if she was still alive. 294 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.200 That Jesus has an opportunity to stop for a second 295 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:00.000 for these messages. 296 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:04.920 Wait the Lucky landslopts. You can get lucky just about anywhere. 297 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.599 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 298 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:10.440 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 299 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.559 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 300 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.079 It's just these cash prizes add up quick, So I 301 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.400 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 302 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.640 and start getting lucky. 303 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.359 Pay for free at Lucky landslipes dot com. Are you 304 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.079 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 305 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.839 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 306 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.119 You talked about everybody that knows her thought that a 307 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.160 stranger couldn't trick her or overpower because she was a 308 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.559 person that was in great shape. And you also talk 309 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:49.160 about Rob Tibbets, her father. Again, they go to the 310 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.759 national media and ABC's Good Morning America, and he just 311 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.480 wants to focus on bringing her back. As you say, 312 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.839 everyone wants to hope and believe that she is still alive. 313 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.240 And a reward, you say, goes up from one hundred 314 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.359 and seventy thousand to two hundred and sixty thousand dollars 315 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:13.799 and flyers at baseball games. So there's an incredible effort 316 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.000 in the community by Rob Tibbots and others and friends 317 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.680 to be able to let people know about this search 318 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:22.799 for this woman. 319 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.240 And now you talk of the family. I'm sorry. The 320 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:30.839 family dynamic here too, is really interesting. Dan Rob Gibbitts 321 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.160 lives in San Francisco. He and Laurel Cawleywood are divorced, 322 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:38.200 So here you have the ex husband flying into Brooklyn, 323 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:40.720 Iowa to take part in this and I thought that 324 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.920 was just a really interesting part of the story. 325 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:48.319 Absolutely. Now you talk about August twentieth, so not too 326 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:54.640 far along. But police get a home surveillance video from 327 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.799 someone I'm from a house on July eighteenth. Now what 328 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:02.119 do they see in this video and what do they conclude? 329 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.000 Now, this was a real break. A month and two 330 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.759 days after Molly vanished, after tracking down thousands of leaves 331 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:13.079 and citizen tips, they finally get a videotape that could 332 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.279 crack the case wide open. It's the home surveillance video. 333 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.599 It shows Molly running by a home on July eighteenth. 334 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.680 On the tape, they can see a black Chevy Malibu 335 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.440 that seems to be following Molly, speeding up and slowing 336 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.759 down as she does, and finally stopping just like the 337 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.400 GPS and bullet told them. Now, if this isn't the 338 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.720 person who kidnapped Malli, they figure he's at least or 339 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.720 this person he or she is at least one of 340 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.440 the last people to ever see Molly alive. And so 341 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.039 they got they have to find this car. This the 342 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:47.279 description of the Malibu goes out to every police official 343 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.720 in Iowa. Every set of law enforcement eyes is looking 344 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:55.359 for this black Malibu that the FBI is afraid carried 345 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:00.559 Molly to her final resting place. A County death betimes 346 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:01.039 the car. 347 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.359 I'm sorry, go ahead, Dan, No I was gonna ask 348 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.160 you talk about a deputy being alert and spotting the car. 349 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:10.079 What happens? 350 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:13.319 Yeah, right right on the road, a county deputy spots 351 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.200 the car and pulls it over, walks up very slowly 352 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:20.160 on the side of the car, and approaches the driver's window. 353 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.200 It's a man alone in the Chevy Malibu. And there 354 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:28.200 he meets Christian Bahina Rivera. A computer check shows the 355 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.039 twenty five year old has no history of any criminal 356 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.559 conduct with any police department of the area. Rivera has 357 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.319 been working at a local dairy farm for about four years. 358 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.440 But this isn't interesting. He's been working at the dairy 359 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.559 farm under a different name, the name of John Bud. 360 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.960 Now Rivera can't produce any identification under either name John 361 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.279 Budd or Christian Vahina Rivera. Here's another point, very difficult 362 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:57.480 conversation between the deputy and Rivera because neither is fluent 363 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:03.119 in the other's language. Rovera is a native of Mexico. 364 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:06.519 He answers some questions and they are able to put 365 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.599 a few things together. He of the deputy. 366 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.240 Now you say that they have the problem of getting 367 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.400 a translator. So they find a personal name an officer 368 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.720 Iowa City police officer named Pamela Romero, and she's fluent 369 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:28.079 in Spanish. Tell us what happens she gets involved, Well. 370 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.920 She makes a real connection with Rovera. He opens right 371 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.359 up to her. It's not just that they're fluent in 372 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.400 Spanish together, it's he just seems very comfortable with Pamela. Yeah, 373 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:43.079 they just open up and he starts talking and tells 374 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:47.519 the whole story, not the story about Molly, but he 375 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.160 just is comfortable. He does a d gives a DNA 376 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.119 sample with no problem at all. He agrees to let 377 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.480 the officer a search inside the car, his car, the Malibu, 378 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.559 and the officers find a blood stain at the truck, 379 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.359 or at least it looks like a blood state of 380 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.000 the trunk. They've got to get back to the forensic lab. 381 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.000 Of course, that's enough. They figure to bring Rovera into 382 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.440 headquarters for more questioning. He's told they can ride with 383 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:12.359 the city police car and be brought back to his 384 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.480 Malibu when they're finished Officer Romero. Pamela Romero asks in 385 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.680 Spanish if he'll go with the FEDS and the Iowa 386 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.119 City cops. Rivera agrees, and so then they get him 387 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.480 in for questioning. They've been talking to him so far 388 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:31.039 for about ninety minutes. The interview really begins now they 389 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.960 it's five oh five in the evening. They take ten breaks, 390 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.839 but other than that, not a stop questioning, just Officer 391 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.480 Pam Romero and Rivera until about eleven thirty at night. 392 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.160 So you're looking at six and a half hours of interrogation. 393 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:49.039 And then and only then, as Rovera read his Miranda. 394 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:55.960 Rights, you say that they believe he believe he's implicated 395 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.119 himself in her murder. And the only question left is 396 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.559 there's her body? 397 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:05.319 Right, That is the only question left? Where is the body? 398 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:12.400 And so on August twenty one, twenty eighteen, Rivera, you know, 399 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:16.480 they ask him what happened, you know, and he's really 400 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.480 struggling to tell the story of his encounter with Molly. 401 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.119