Speaker 1: Give you away.
Speaker 2: You go ahead, you go right ahead.
Speaker 1: I'll attempt some kind of segue and you will pick
Speaker 1: up on it.
Speaker 2: I that's perfect, perfect.
Speaker 3: Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast. James Lilyx is off today,
Speaker 3: as is Charlie Cook. Is Steve Hayward joined by Rob Long.
Speaker 4: Yeah what does that mean? Like, so what happens?
Speaker 2: James sick? And then you call Charlie and charlis I'm
Speaker 2: not doing it and you're like, well, yeah, who did
Speaker 2: we get?
Speaker 3: That's the wrong opening note? Rob, Sorry, it's that I'm
Speaker 3: trying to do a little fifteen second one. Sorry, that's
Speaker 3: all right, you're rusty, right. Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast.
Speaker 3: It's Steve Hayward sitting in for James Lylyx, who is
Speaker 3: out today.
Speaker 1: As is Charlie Cook. Joining us is Rob Long. So
Speaker 1: let's have ourselves a podcast.
Speaker 2: Keep this this is real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and seventy five.
Speaker 3: And as James always wants us to remind you, please
Speaker 3: join Ricochet at ricochet dot com.
Speaker 1: It's not expensive.
Speaker 3: Join the most stimulating conversations on the web. James is
Speaker 3: under the weather. I think Charles is out somewhere. I'm
Speaker 3: a little under the weather, So I apologize for my
Speaker 3: scratchy voice, but we managed to scrounge up Rob Long.
Speaker 2: Scratch a right, you know what, you need to work
Speaker 2: on this because like like, well, you know, James is
Speaker 2: sick and Charlie's who knows where Charlie is? So I
Speaker 2: don't know. We got Yeah, we put out an all apb.
Speaker 2: We get this clown in. You know, maybe special guests.
Speaker 2: You could say we are well, I could you're under
Speaker 2: the weather. I get it.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think of it this way. Rob
Speaker 1: is uh.
Speaker 3: You know, I pick up the news every day. I'm
Speaker 3: on the road this week, so a little less news,
Speaker 3: but you know the good, the bad, the crazy, and
Speaker 3: I often think that you know, at least Rob Long
Speaker 3: has a blessed existence in a monastic occupation at the moment.
Speaker 1: You probably missed some of this craziness.
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, I wouldn't call it a monastic you don't.
Speaker 2: We're like this sponsored or the seminary was created by
Speaker 2: very stern Presbyterians.
Speaker 3: But they weren't that stern, right right right, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 3: Presbyterianism and monasticism don't often go together in the same sentence,
Speaker 3: but that was our last podcast together.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't have to go back through that, yeah, right, right, right.
Speaker 1: So well today there is a whole lot in the news.
Speaker 3: So you know, I have been predicting for years item
Speaker 3: number one, that eventually what was going to turn back
Speaker 3: a lot of the really extreme transgender craziness and I mean,
Speaker 3: frankly what I think, mutilating children and young teens. That
Speaker 3: the trial lawyers were going to rescue us from this
Speaker 3: because you would have and you know, we know there's
Speaker 3: a significant number of people who regretted making a transition
Speaker 3: and want to de transition, and I thought they're going
Speaker 3: to sue for malpractice. And one reason I think this,
Speaker 3: just very briefly, is I am familiar. Don't ask me
Speaker 3: how because it was a confidential settlement with NDAs. But
Speaker 3: some years ago I'm aware of a lawsuit brought against
Speaker 3: an abortion provider by someone who got an abortion as
Speaker 3: a teen with the usual no parental notification because that
Speaker 3: was always right and it was a look, they did
Speaker 3: not counsel me of the psychological risks of having an abortion,
Speaker 3: which you know a lot of young women they regret
Speaker 3: having done it, and sometimes there's trauma and ball. Okay, Well,
Speaker 3: the abortion provider settled very quickly because they did not
Speaker 3: want this to be spread around, right, And I think
Speaker 3: most people who think of a suit either against these
Speaker 3: transgender surgeries or even abortion, they don't really want to
Speaker 3: go through a trial either, because that's painful and difficult.
Speaker 3: But the object is that the lawyers who brought the
Speaker 3: case was let's make certain abortion providers uninsurable. And so
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if that's what's going to happen now with
Speaker 3: the transgender business.
Speaker 2: Well, it could happen.
Speaker 4: It also can happen naturally.
Speaker 2: It's not as if it's not as if this stuff
Speaker 2: isn't already controversial, even in the context of the people
Speaker 2: who've been performing it. You know, the entire clinic, the
Speaker 2: Tavistaw Clinic in Britain, which is one of them. First
Speaker 2: of all, one of the most famous psychoanalytic institutes in
Speaker 2: the world, if not the most famous. I think Freud
Speaker 2: taught there. So this is the most establishment place there is.
Speaker 2: And they did this kind of therapy and this kind
Speaker 2: of and they not I don't think they did the surgery,
Speaker 2: but they they authorized the surgery on minors and the
Speaker 2: and the hormone therapy and all that stuff, and they
Speaker 2: not only decided to stop doing it, but I think
Speaker 2: a year later they closed the entire thing.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't because of pressure.
Speaker 2: From you know, some I don't know what, you know,
Speaker 2: social conservative It was out of this genuine feeling that
Speaker 2: maybe they haven't been making a mistake.
Speaker 4: And they were very careful.
Speaker 2: They didn't say we're against this in general, or we
Speaker 2: don't think that you should be allowed to do this
Speaker 2: if you if you feel it's necessary or whatever. I don't,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but they did say that not for kids, right,
Speaker 2: and that I mean, that doesn't seem like an outrageous criterion,
Speaker 2: which is you got to be eighteen or nineteen.
Speaker 1: Right, right? Yes?
Speaker 2: Uh. Well.
Speaker 3: The other aspect of this is I think we now
Speaker 3: have pretty good data that there's an aspect of social
Speaker 3: contagion going on here. And it's kind of lumpy, right,
Speaker 3: it tends to because why is it so high in
Speaker 3: bel Air and Cambridge, Massachusetts and not in.
Speaker 1: Peoria, right right? Uh?
Speaker 2: And it does remind me joke Bill Bill Maher said
Speaker 2: that he says like yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, uh, and I mean I'm sure, yeah, you'll remember
Speaker 3: that was it thirty years ago? Now, you had this outbreak,
Speaker 3: outbreak epidemic of anorexia and bilimia among young women, right,
Speaker 3: and that that clearly had a contaging effect.
Speaker 1: There wasn't some and there's no epidemic.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not caused by a virus or something, right, right,
Speaker 3: And but it just you know, a group think and
Speaker 3: so forth. On the other hand, I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 3: the identitarians as I call them, one more thought about that,
Speaker 3: and but you may agree with me at this.
Speaker 1: I do know four or five transgender individuals, men who
Speaker 1: change teams, as I like to put it, but all
Speaker 1: in adulthood, some of them far into adulthood.
Speaker 3: Right, And you know they all, by the way, most
Speaker 3: of them are not down with the you know, I
Speaker 3: can go in any bathroom I want and sort of
Speaker 3: aggressiveness of it, right, quite the opposite. And most of
Speaker 3: them are either conservative or libertarian. And they all say
Speaker 3: the same thing. You know, I thought I would be
Speaker 3: happier as the other thing, and I am. And so
Speaker 3: I take that and respect it. It's rare but real,
Speaker 3: and I think probably one a typical of the identitarian
Speaker 3: left of taking it too far. They're actually going to
Speaker 3: make it harder for people who really do have genuine
Speaker 3: gender dysphoria.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's probably true.
Speaker 2: I mean, I find the whole thing so bad, Like anyway,
Speaker 2: because of the I'm trying to be nicer. I wrote
Speaker 2: a I wrote a piece for commentary. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: out next week, and I put in a story that's
Speaker 2: true with a joke at the end. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: I'm gonna trouble.
Speaker 4: For you know, Like.
Speaker 2: I have a friend who is in the has been
Speaker 2: the fashion sort of retail fashion business for a long time.
Speaker 2: He's very well known guys for a bunch of books,
Speaker 2: and you know his joke as he goes. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of these you know, these guys just you know,
Speaker 2: they think they're going to become women. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, think about this, like what is your
Speaker 2: summer Look? You know, you it isn't just this thing
Speaker 2: where you just wake up one day and you get
Speaker 2: to you know, and you got all you're thinking about
Speaker 2: these things because but women have been thinking about these
Speaker 2: things forever.
Speaker 4: And I suspect that that is.
Speaker 2: But you know, some some of the old some of
Speaker 2: the older gentlemen, the older meaning you know, in their
Speaker 2: in their grown up phase, who've decided to do this.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I'm not sure they at this point.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they trade it up in the looks department,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, And but but again, that is entirely,
Speaker 2: entirely up to them. And I celebrate the courage it
Speaker 2: takes to make a change like that, and I hope
Speaker 2: that they have equal courage if they if they regret it,
Speaker 2: that there's the equal embrace of their changing back.
Speaker 4: I think that happens too.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to, but it can. And in general,
Speaker 2: you know, I think when you're grown up, I mean fine,
Speaker 2: and I think there is a certain and I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not. I am not, by no means am I
Speaker 2: questioning the good faith of the people who have having
Speaker 2: this done or doing this themselves, which is crucial. They're
Speaker 2: doing to themselves, which is fine. But you know, some
Speaker 2: of it does feel a little like a very very
Speaker 2: rich society and a very very privileged group. And we
Speaker 2: all are, i mean, just by being Americans in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six, we're incredibly rich.
Speaker 4: It's just kind of like, well, I can do this,
Speaker 4: I can do it, so why not you.
Speaker 3: Know, well, we've also, I mean we Something that I
Speaker 3: think is never made distinct is that it's one thing
Speaker 3: to just cross dress, right, you know, I want to
Speaker 3: wear a dress and call myself a woman. And that's
Speaker 3: another thing to go all the way, shall we say,
Speaker 3: right and have surgeries use modern medicine. And it reminds
Speaker 3: me of the old breakfast joke that the chicken is involved,
Speaker 3: but the pig is committed, right, So you know, the
Speaker 3: people go all the way, they really can't switch back
Speaker 3: very easily.
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't you know, I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we're not being honest to them either.
Speaker 2: They are not switching to something they really aren't. It's
Speaker 2: really just a more a closer visual approximation of what
Speaker 2: they want. But they aren't able to do the thing.
Speaker 2: You know, if you become a woman, you don't have
Speaker 2: a uterus, you can't have children, you don't you don't
Speaker 2: have you don't menstruate. And then there's also the truth
Speaker 2: part of it is I have a friend of mine
Speaker 2: who's very done, She's been doing this kind of researching
Speaker 2: a long time and she he says, you know what,
Speaker 2: they don't tell people is that you will not be
Speaker 2: able to experience sexual pleasure, right right, Yeah, So this
Speaker 2: if the if you're drawn to that, if this is
Speaker 2: somehow these things and look, we're all kind of wired
Speaker 2: in some weird way with God knows. I wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to look under the hood of your head, you wouldn't
Speaker 2: want look at ah of mine. But if that, if
Speaker 2: that is part of what's happening here, then you're going
Speaker 2: to be really disappointed. Yeah. Also this when you try
Speaker 2: to buy shoes, I think that's the only thing that's
Speaker 2: that's not going to be a good.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, one last serious point and then take a
Speaker 3: wide angle lens look at a broader scene. I do
Speaker 3: know that apparently one bar to more malpractice use is
Speaker 3: statutes of limitation. Now I'm an expert on this, but
Speaker 3: I do know that when starting thirty years ago, you
Speaker 3: had all the explosion of the scandals of sex abuse
Speaker 3: by Catholic priests, the boy Scouts and so forth, that
Speaker 3: a lot of states ran out and extended there's statute
Speaker 3: of limitations for those kinds of claims. And we'll have
Speaker 3: to keep track on whether that happens here. I suspect
Speaker 3: it might in some states.
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. I think also I feel like
Speaker 2: that I would say to those people on the pro
Speaker 2: side or on the sort of continuing to perform these
Speaker 2: things from miners, is that if you want to look
Speaker 2: and see what can happen to a to may be
Speaker 2: the most the most venerable, strongest institution and earth has
Speaker 2: ever known in the Catholic Church, take a look, and
Speaker 2: that will happen to the psychiatric or the psychological industry,
Speaker 2: and that all those institutions if this keeps going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. So more broadly, I think
Speaker 1: that what I call the.
Speaker 3: Identitarians, which is this and the whole sort of Dei world,
Speaker 3: it's pretty evident to me they are digging in, thinking
Speaker 3: if we can survive three more years of Trump, which
Speaker 3: will seem like twenty years, right, because you measure Trump
Speaker 3: and dog years if you're on the left, right, doesn't
Speaker 3: seem every day a want. And they're digging in, and
Speaker 3: you know they're disguising the Dei stuff on campus.
Speaker 1: That's what I follow the most.
Speaker 3: Closely, and and I don't keep want to don't want
Speaker 3: to keep beating this dead horse. But the identitarianism business
Speaker 3: has always been sort of the extreme of the idea
Speaker 3: of liberal autonomy, of self definition, self creation, totally unmoored
Speaker 3: with you know, tradition, history, human nature and the wilfulness
Speaker 3: of it is what makes them, I think, so angry
Speaker 3: and aggressive in a lot of domains, and so they're
Speaker 3: not going to go away easily even after just one
Speaker 3: or two lawsuits, is my expectation.
Speaker 4: I think that might might be the case.
Speaker 2: On the other hand, once you've once you've cracked, these
Speaker 2: things only really work in their sort of mob intimidation,
Speaker 2: like if you don't if you don't do this, we're
Speaker 2: going to punish you in all these different ways. Once
Speaker 2: that's broken, it's really hard to scare people again. And
Speaker 2: you're already seeing it in colleges, like college is sort
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 4: Bell weather, Right. This all happened a while ago.
Speaker 2: People perfectly happy sending their kids to a school that
Speaker 2: doesn't that doesn't necessarily have the same cachet, the same
Speaker 2: name as a school as a school might have had
Speaker 2: ten or fifteen years ago. Now, I think this is
Speaker 2: all gonna take a long time. Yeah, but I'm not
Speaker 2: sure it's I'm not sure it's a slam dunk for
Speaker 2: the weighted out the playing possum, waiting it out weighted outers.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if we could, if we all survived
Speaker 2: three more years of Trump, that great.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not sure I'm going to survive.
Speaker 2: Let alone, let alone the left. But my guess is
Speaker 2: that these these only work if you could point to
Speaker 2: everyone to say everyone's doing it, and you'll be can
Speaker 2: roundly condemned if you don't.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure they can do that anymore.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, you know, one indicator is always comics, right,
Speaker 3: And I mean I get a lot of social media feeds.
Speaker 1: Like you do.
Speaker 3: And you know, there are always a few comedians who
Speaker 3: would make fun of this business, but lately I've been
Speaker 3: seeing a lot more of them do it right. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: and and they bust up the audience. It's pretty clear
Speaker 3: that the you know, okay, and that got significant. Well
Speaker 3: in other news that is overlaps, maybe a little another
Speaker 3: batch of Epstein files here the last few days. I
Speaker 3: hope you got I hope you got to miss that
Speaker 3: Robert of that catch up with you.
Speaker 2: Also, no, no, that's like no one's talking about of course.
Speaker 2: I think that's the most amazing thing about being in
Speaker 2: seminary is that no one is talking about the news
Speaker 2: in any at any point, they'll make you know some
Speaker 2: of the people who are on the left, which a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of them, will make you know.
Speaker 2: They'll make these oblique represents, you know, in these troubled times,
Speaker 2: which so do we get all we've always been able
Speaker 2: to say. But I am, of course obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: And because it's to me what I find, I'm such
Speaker 2: a Pollyannist weirdo. I just assumed that all of this
Speaker 2: talk about how Epstein's network was so big and you
Speaker 2: knew everybody and all that stuff, that was like a
Speaker 2: lot of nonsense, Like really, I don't think that really happens.
Speaker 2: And then you go on these email list and it's
Speaker 2: extraordinary how much I mean, his full time job, Look,
Speaker 2: I might box right now is like twenty emails. I'm
Speaker 2: late on returning his He seems to be doing nothing
Speaker 2: but on the phone all day. Like I mean, that's
Speaker 2: that would be my defense where he where his lawyer
Speaker 2: if he were alive and he were facing you know,
Speaker 2: more assault charge than's it? When did he have time,
Speaker 2: ladies jumping the jury between eleven eleven and eleven twenty three,
Speaker 2: When the when the plaintiffs insists he was attacking her.
Speaker 2: He was actually setting nine emails, like we could see,
Speaker 2: like the guy seemed to be doing nothing with that.
Speaker 4: So but it is interesting. It is interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean I instinctively resist frothy conspiracy theories, and you know,
Speaker 3: I want to really be proven. And on the other hand,
Speaker 3: I noticed the same thing. How did he make his
Speaker 3: money when he's spending all his time being social chairman
Speaker 3: seemingly twenty four to seven and it had cost him
Speaker 3: a lot of money to do all that too. So
Speaker 3: I mean a few things have leaked out. I mean,
Speaker 3: he really droves some hard bargains, evenly squeezed some people.
Speaker 3: He frauded some people. The New York Times had a
Speaker 3: pretty good story on a dive a couple of months
Speaker 3: ago or a month ago, and it really detailed that
Speaker 3: he was a sharpeither. Okay, but it's still I don't know,
Speaker 3: it still seems so out of proportion. I do kind
Speaker 3: of wish it would all go away. Although last thing,
Speaker 3: maybe you, I don't know if you caught this. I
Speaker 3: think it was maybe Bill Marshow last Friday night. I've
Speaker 3: just read about it. But he said, where does QAnon
Speaker 3: go to get its apology, right. I mean, I don't
Speaker 3: know if you know all the QAnon stories, and you
Speaker 3: know they're way out there. I mean I met someone
Speaker 3: once who said, this is, you know, eight or nine
Speaker 3: years ago, right that you know there is this organized
Speaker 3: pedophile ring.
Speaker 1: Forget the pizza shop. There's tunnels that start from a
Speaker 1: mile underneath a Denver airport to go all over the country,
Speaker 1: and that's where the trafficking is going on.
Speaker 3: I just you know, I mean, you know, I'd rather
Speaker 3: how about we talk about Kim Trail something more sensible just.
Speaker 2: The way I can see, right, right, Well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that. Well, I mean, you know, it doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like it requires much of a conspiracy.
Speaker 4: It's just rich people and a guy.
Speaker 2: What's interesting to me is that he is Epstein really
Speaker 2: is a classic character you've seen in fiction and in
Speaker 2: plays and stuff. He's every single person he is emailing with,
Speaker 2: he despises, he hates everybody, and if the great tragedy
Speaker 2: of his life I think for him was that he
Speaker 2: committed suicide before he could see the destruction that he created.
Speaker 2: It isn't as if this guy, there's not one of
Speaker 2: those emails in which he's genuinely concerned for a friend
Speaker 2: or anything.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, even the worst.
Speaker 2: People, you know, even Hitler was nice to his dog.
Speaker 2: Right this he seems like all he a lifetime of
Speaker 2: resentment and anger and he hates these guys more than anything.
Speaker 2: And and I think that drove it. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: very it's very the worst thing about it for me
Speaker 2: is that there's no index like the No One's index
Speaker 2: that so you can search on the web. When when
Speaker 2: the North Koreans hacked the Sony emails, yeah, and then
Speaker 2: Wiki Leaks put it on the web and you could
Speaker 2: you could like search for your name and if you ever,
Speaker 2: if you had, like I did some stuff at Disney,
Speaker 2: I mean at Sony in those years, and so I
Speaker 2: went and looked for my name because I could see
Speaker 2: what the business affairs people were emailing to each other
Speaker 2: back and forth about my contract and this and that.
Speaker 2: It was really fascinating, but they were kind of like
Speaker 2: they weren't really lying. There was one moment where it
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I got it, I see what you
Speaker 2: guys are up to. But mostly, you know, people even
Speaker 2: in emails, they're not twirling their mustache. But this guy
Speaker 2: and I don't think he is either, but you could
Speaker 2: tell that there's just he just he's a this is
Speaker 2: I think were he alive today, he would not be
Speaker 2: disappointed at the wholesale reputational destruction that he has created.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had not picked up on that
Speaker 3: angle of it, Rob, I have to confess that there's
Speaker 3: sort of malice there born of you know, anger and
Speaker 3: resentment and whatever.
Speaker 1: I miss that, but yeah, I did enjoy.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have not been calling through these things,
Speaker 3: but you can't avoid some of it. Boy, what the
Speaker 3: Allen sure turns up a lot? Yeah, emails right, wanting
Speaker 3: Epstein to broker you know, small bit parts.
Speaker 1: In his movies, and you know, I meet all kinds
Speaker 1: of crazy stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think but Epstein kind of knew.
Speaker 2: I mean like the devil.
Speaker 4: The devil.
Speaker 2: Uh, the devil always appears to you as a solution.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it's whatever your weaknesses is what the Devil's
Speaker 2: gonna say. I could take care of that for you.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's never it's never something and it's never even something
Speaker 2: grand like I can make you a king of the world.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we that's how we imagine it.
Speaker 2: But really when the devil comes to you. He says, Look,
Speaker 2: I know this, this this little thing is bothering you.
Speaker 2: Let me help you. Let me help you financi your movie,
Speaker 2: and I can sell some. I'll sell some walk on,
Speaker 2: so before you know it, you'll have all the money
Speaker 2: you need.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it starts right by the way.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, I do.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, maybe this is the time to do this.
Speaker 3: I was going to bring it up later, but you
Speaker 3: know so, I'm still out in California for some crazy reason.
Speaker 1: It's way.
Speaker 3: Here's a new one for you that I was talking
Speaker 3: about just yesterday. Some people here in Texas uh a
Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty five million dollar bike lane eight
Speaker 3: miles along the La River, which, as you know, is
Speaker 3: a storm drain. It's concrete channel, right, it was supposed
Speaker 3: to be open last year. They haven't started construction, and
Speaker 3: the construction cross is now estimated to be over a
Speaker 3: billion dollars all in for eight miles along the La River.
Speaker 1: And how is this possible? Right, that's just a measure
Speaker 1: of the comprehensive failure of California.
Speaker 4: But equally already concrete. They what do they have to do?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 3: No, that's really how hard is a bike path on
Speaker 3: the La River which is empty ninety nine percent of
Speaker 3: the time time, as you know, right, also have to
Speaker 3: spend only.
Speaker 1: In California, Yeah, exactly. No one wants to ride there.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: But that brings me to your, well, your former industry, right,
Speaker 3: which I know we've talked about how it's in free
Speaker 3: fall in California because of high costs and everything else.
Speaker 3: And the latest idea that apparently Governor Newsom was talking
Speaker 3: about is, well, we have to come up with some
Speaker 3: subsidies and tax breaks for the Hollywood industry in California,
Speaker 3: which is, you know, do we have to have subsidies
Speaker 3: to take coals to Newcastle? I mean, it's unbelievable to
Speaker 3: think that what has been one of the premier industries
Speaker 3: of California for one hundred years was on such hard
Speaker 3: times that it needs And I know, Georgia and Oklahoma
Speaker 3: and all these other states New Mexico aren't trying to
Speaker 3: lure the film industry, but California you would think would
Speaker 3: have such an advantage like Las Vegas has an advantage.
Speaker 3: I mean in casino gaming has spread over the country,
Speaker 3: but Las Vegas still thrives because none of those places
Speaker 3: can offer what Las Vegas does. And I've always thought
Speaker 3: Hollywood will always offer what all those other states can't offer,
Speaker 3: even with bribes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's probably true in some respect. The
Speaker 2: problem with it is that we say it's a runaway production.
Speaker 2: They call it in show business runaway productions leaving LA
Speaker 2: But there was too much production for you know, the
Speaker 2: past fifteen twenty years. So it's sort of like you
Speaker 2: think about them as oil wells, right, you know, you
Speaker 2: drive through oil towns and like you see these dereks
Speaker 2: that are not being used, with the oil pumps that
Speaker 2: aren't going up and down, up and down, up and down,
Speaker 2: and why is that?
Speaker 4: It's just because of the price of oil. It's not
Speaker 4: worth it.
Speaker 2: Those things will start moving when it makes economic sense. Right.
Speaker 2: We just over invested in show business into TV shows
Speaker 2: for frankly, mostly streaming services now needed twenty five thirty
Speaker 2: forty fifty sixty one hundred originals, right, so they all
Speaker 2: had to be made. They had to be made somewhere.
Speaker 2: So if production went down to where it was when
Speaker 2: I started, or midway around there, that would probably be
Speaker 2: That's probably the outcome the problem with a budget is
Speaker 2: money is fungible. So if I get the state to
Speaker 2: pay for something and said we're not going to pay
Speaker 2: for the big star salaries, We're only going to pay
Speaker 2: for this or this or this, well guess what's gonna
Speaker 2: happen to the star salaries. They're going to suck up
Speaker 2: the Because the truth is, no matter what matter how
Speaker 2: you pay for it, the people who are whose faces
Speaker 2: are on the screen really for the not for the
Speaker 2: first time, but for the most extreme time ever, they
Speaker 2: are more important. It costs ten million dollars to twenty
Speaker 2: million dollars to launch a title, whether it's a movie
Speaker 2: or TV show or anything, into public consciousness. Every time,
Speaker 2: you don't have to every million dollars, you don't have
Speaker 2: to spend to try to tell people what the show
Speaker 2: is about, who's in it. You're it's money in the bank.
Speaker 2: So you want a recognizable star, you want to build on.
Speaker 2: That's why they those why all the reboots that aren't
Speaker 2: really reboots, That's why all the tie ins, the things,
Speaker 2: That's why all the stars like you just need to
Speaker 2: you need to watch the TV show with the actor
Speaker 2: whose name you know, rather than have me try to
Speaker 2: introduce you to some name because its too risky, even
Speaker 2: though you and I Boke would say, well, that's dumb
Speaker 2: because look at the biggest the biggest hits in cable
Speaker 2: streaming in the past ten fifteen years, and they start.
Speaker 4: Nobody's right, right, but that's risky.
Speaker 1: So well, follow up question.
Speaker 3: I distinctly remember you here on Ricochet I'm going to
Speaker 3: say five six years ago, at the height of COVID,
Speaker 3: looking head to after COVID, and you made a comment
Speaker 3: about how ah, there's the pipelines drying up, and so
Speaker 3: right now, all the Hollywood production companies are green lighting
Speaker 3: anything that walks through the door something like that. And
Speaker 3: you know, I watched some of these streaming shows now
Speaker 3: or I'll dial them up, and I have two thoughts.
Speaker 3: One is, the production values are really really good, and
Speaker 3: the acting is kind of average to mediocre, and the
Speaker 3: plots aren't very good.
Speaker 1: It's just not very good.
Speaker 3: And I sometimes wonder if the high production values now
Speaker 3: are actually an impediment to people enjoying a show, because
Speaker 3: I look at the old reruns of seventies sitcoms So
Speaker 3: tax or whatever, and I always thought, you know, they're
Speaker 3: kind of grainy compared to what we have today. Sometimes
Speaker 3: the laugh track too much and the lines are clunky,
Speaker 3: but it worked right. It's it's like, well, old coat
Speaker 3: and some of these shows now try too hard, it
Speaker 3: seems to me, and.
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is gonna go.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, it's gonna have to go with less, right,
Speaker 2: that's that's usually the solution is that you when a
Speaker 2: bubble burst, everybody has to figure out what they really
Speaker 2: want to do in their lives, and some people are
Speaker 2: you know, look, there is no way around it if
Speaker 2: there are going to be fewer people working in show
Speaker 2: business in a year than there are now, and everybody's
Speaker 2: waiting for the other person to leave.
Speaker 4: First, right, And it's not how that works.
Speaker 2: Like you got to like if you could, if you,
Speaker 2: I would say this to anybody, if you haven't worked
Speaker 2: in six months, nine months in any capacity in show
Speaker 2: business and you can leave, leave, yeah, you'll your life
Speaker 2: will be immeasurably, immeasurely healthier. But no one's listening to
Speaker 2: me when I say that.
Speaker 3: I know right well that they will as soon as
Speaker 3: you become father Rob.
Speaker 4: Yeah, given to order them, Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1: So you know I was in Washington, d C. A
Speaker 1: week ago today and it was two degrees, which you know.
Speaker 3: I mean I lived in Washington for fifteen years and
Speaker 3: I don't ever remember being that cold, and it's been
Speaker 3: that cold for a while, and I think it's still
Speaker 3: cold up where you are.
Speaker 1: I know, I've had some people freeze to death. What's
Speaker 1: the answer for this? I mean, we just need thicker blankets.
Speaker 1: What do we need to do well?
Speaker 4: I mean, look, there's no answer to being cold. I mean,
Speaker 4: we're cold, that's all.
Speaker 2: I mean. I remember it was people we've never had
Speaker 2: a snowstorm like this, like, well, we had one in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen and in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4: We have them at every you know, five six, seven years.
Speaker 2: I'm not making an argue back climate change for or against,
Speaker 2: but this is not This does not seem unprecedented to me.
Speaker 2: I remember when I was producing a show that was
Speaker 2: we were shooting out on Long Island, and there was
Speaker 2: two weeks there where I had to wake up because
Speaker 2: I was running the show super early to hear whether
Speaker 2: because the unions require certain closures and insurance requires certain
Speaker 2: standards for closures. And then the lawyer studio lawyer who
Speaker 2: would decide whether you you know, they were not the
Speaker 2: studio would not want to be liable for any accidents
Speaker 2: to close. That studio lawyer was conveniently located in Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: so I'd have to wake that guy up at three
Speaker 2: in the morning, which he hated.
Speaker 4: Was like, but yes, you're going to be up at
Speaker 4: three in the morning.
Speaker 2: And and he he had to make the decision whether
Speaker 2: we as a studio, we we as a studio could open.
Speaker 2: And that's because the snow is so terrible and it's
Speaker 2: not that bad. It wasn't that bad this year. So
Speaker 2: it's cold, and then suddenly it's warm, you know. Then
Speaker 2: you get a thirty two degree day, and then you
Speaker 2: got an eleven degree day, and it's called winter.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, right, and and and then comes summer and
Speaker 3: it's all climate change all the time.
Speaker 2: Right yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Then I was like, oh my god, it's never been
Speaker 4: this hot.
Speaker 2: Right, well, yeah, yes, it has actually a year ago,
Speaker 2: but the last time it was hot, right yeah.
Speaker 3: And then the other question is, uh, even if you've
Speaker 3: got the right accouterments for coping with the weather, what
Speaker 3: do you do for your long term future, which is
Speaker 3: a different kind of fabric.
Speaker 4: Well, I hope that that is not a segue, because
Speaker 4: if it.
Speaker 1: Is, that's a terrible one. I know.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: On a scale of one a Lilacs, that's like a three.
Speaker 2: But okay, he's sick, so you wouldn't want to show
Speaker 2: him up right. That's actually fine because you know, as
Speaker 2: you know, it's like last year it was winter and
Speaker 2: last year was summer. And that's what happens with the
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Speaker 3: As James always likes to add, well, all right, let's
Speaker 3: turn to another I guess collapsing industry, or at least
Speaker 3: collapsing media property and The Washington Post right, and I'm
Speaker 3: sorry James is not here today. I'll bet he has
Speaker 3: some mixed feelings about this as an old, ink stained wretch,
Speaker 3: and I sympathize with that. My first job out of
Speaker 3: college a long time ago was doing the local news
Speaker 3: reporting for a suburban daily that no longer exists, and
Speaker 3: I realized then it was an unpromising professional field.
Speaker 1: I had no idea to be so bad. But the Post.
Speaker 1: What to say about this? First of all, I do
Speaker 1: the progression.
Speaker 3: I think you know these numbers, So Arianna Huffington sold
Speaker 3: the Huffington Post. Was it twenty some years ago? For
Speaker 3: so I call three hundred million dollars? I don't even
Speaker 3: I don't even know the Huffing the Post still exists.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a bucket shop man,
Speaker 4: but I think it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then so then you know, few years later, Jeff
Speaker 3: bezos byes the Washington Post for two hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: million dollars. You know, this legendary publication with a you know,
Speaker 3: a seemingly usable built in market.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And that's couch cushion change for him, of course. And
Speaker 3: that's what's annoying so many people who are laid off
Speaker 3: this week, who seem to think they're entitled to endless
Speaker 3: subsidies from him. Uh So A couple of points. One is,
Speaker 3: you know the New York Times is thriving financially. I
Speaker 3: mean they're making lots of money, and you know the
Speaker 3: Post was losing one hundred million a year. The difference there,
Speaker 3: I think you probably know and listeners may know, is
Speaker 3: that it's not from ads and news coverage. It's from
Speaker 3: all the collateral things they did. They figured out early
Speaker 3: on the crossword puzzle. They bought wordle they do games.
Speaker 1: They bought a couple of proprietary what's it called the
Speaker 1: there's a sports site they bought that people they extra for.
Speaker 1: So you know, they figured out the digital media world
Speaker 1: that cross subsidizes the old fashioned news. Although I think
Speaker 1: they've shrunk that a little bit.
Speaker 4: I think they have.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember years ago people were talking a very
Speaker 2: famous venture capitalist had a thing he had on Twitter,
Speaker 2: you called the New York Times death watch. Ah, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna watch it, watch the New York Times die.
Speaker 2: Of course that we are there. They're ascified and slow,
Speaker 2: and you look at what they've done, and they have
Speaker 2: whether they've announced it or not. I mean, obviously New
Speaker 2: York Times to you me as you know, we are
Speaker 2: enraged at their headlines and their editorial editorializing on the
Speaker 2: front page, all that stuff, right, But still what they
Speaker 2: realized was they a long, hard mirror. Look at the mirror.
Speaker 2: They said, what are we really? We are a service business.
Speaker 4: And they used to have.
Speaker 2: If you want to go see a movie, or you
Speaker 2: wanted to go to a play, or you wanted to
Speaker 2: go to a restaurant, or you wanted to live your life,
Speaker 2: the New York Times you looked at because it gave
Speaker 2: you all that information, like their theater section told you
Speaker 2: what was playing in the movie theaters and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And they doubled down on those things. Now they weren't.
Speaker 2: Nobody checks the newspaper to see where the movies are.
Speaker 2: But their food section is terrific. And I did I
Speaker 2: do wordle I do the crossword every day. Now I
Speaker 2: do the Crossword. I get a paper delivered, which is
Speaker 2: a sign of geriatric, you know, mental decline, but I
Speaker 2: still do it. And that the humility it takes to
Speaker 2: see what you really are, not what you've become thanks
Speaker 2: to the Internet, what you always were these newspapers were
Speaker 2: always that they just got a little too big for
Speaker 2: their bridges. Over the past twenty thirty years, when we
Speaker 2: were flooded with journalism students and all sorts of nonsense
Speaker 2: that they went to school to study journalism, all this
Speaker 2: bs that they swallowed and preened around with themselves, which
Speaker 2: was ridiculous. Right now they're faced with, Okay, why do
Speaker 2: I read this every day? And there are reasons why
Speaker 2: people do you just have to give them those reasons
Speaker 2: and instead, I mean, I remember, I mean, this is
Speaker 2: this is a dumb I'm not talking out of school.
Speaker 2: It was so long ago having dinner back when I
Speaker 2: used to hang around with Rupert Murdoch, having dinner with
Speaker 2: Rupert moroc and Peter Robinson, and we were with Rupert
Speaker 2: in l A.
Speaker 5: And uh.
Speaker 4: We were sort of talking about wicked know what what what?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: What? What would you what would you do if you
Speaker 2: were right?
Speaker 4: And he goes that or no, you know. I said,
Speaker 4: well would you ever buy the La Times?
Speaker 2: And he said no? And I said, well don't you?
Speaker 2: And I tried to explain to him what I thought
Speaker 2: LA was, like, LA's this.
Speaker 5: Big, sprawling baroque city, it's all his got movie stars
Speaker 5: and like sex scandals and creepy weird murders and gangle.
Speaker 2: I was like, amazing, So this is a tabloid city.
Speaker 2: It's got no tabloid and he kind of looked at
Speaker 2: it's like huh, but he said, well, you know, even
Speaker 2: the New York Post doesn't make that much money and
Speaker 2: say it's hard.
Speaker 4: Well, guess what he's doing.
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm gonna that there's a there's a tabloid in
Speaker 2: kel the California Post I think it's called, said basically
Speaker 2: the New York Post for California, which is like very
Speaker 2: East Coast center, which is like, well New York City,
Speaker 2: it's one tabloid and all of California gets another. But
Speaker 2: it might work. But that's what people want. Page six, right,
Speaker 2: you know the recipes, puzzle, sports scores. Well, you know
Speaker 2: New York Times about Wirecutter, which is a terrific consumer
Speaker 2: products review site.
Speaker 4: What do they want? They want service?
Speaker 2: And then you know, let's be honest, it's great that
Speaker 2: you have a beyrout bureau. Right, Nobody's like, that's not
Speaker 2: what's driving me. No one has ever picked up the newspapers.
Speaker 2: They've said, I wonder what, you know, what are what
Speaker 2: they're what is happening in Singapore? It's like, why were
Speaker 2: there all those sirens down the street. Why why were
Speaker 2: the cops surrounding that house that I drove home on
Speaker 2: the way home from work. They want that's what they
Speaker 2: want to know what's going on?
Speaker 3: Right? I think the California Post already has a staff
Speaker 3: of eighty and they're adding more, you know, the all
Speaker 3: different kinds of positions. Their office is in Century City,
Speaker 3: which I think I think makes sense. I mean, Downtown LA,
Speaker 3: as you know, is all bankers and lawyers and this
Speaker 3: kind of boring. Yeah, the other side of town is
Speaker 3: where the action is.
Speaker 2: So they already own they already own the space, correct. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, I'm not spending any money.
Speaker 2: If you got no fancy offices for you people, you're
Speaker 2: going to be in the offices that we already have.
Speaker 4: I think it's true.
Speaker 2: I also, I mean I also I remember years ago
Speaker 2: I was talking to a New York LA Times reporter.
Speaker 2: She was pretty high up there, and I was saying, look,
Speaker 2: I've lived in LA for twenty I've lived in LA
Speaker 2: for twenty years of this At that point I believed
Speaker 2: for twenty years, and you're always driving everywhere, so I've
Speaker 2: seen the whole city. I have no idea where anything is.
Speaker 2: Like La is one of those places where I always
Speaker 2: say to people, where was Rodney King beaten by the police?
Speaker 2: And they always think south Central. No, No, it was
Speaker 2: way out in the far Valley, but Coyment way out there,
Speaker 2: practically on the other side of like almost in Seniorality.
Speaker 1: Actually almost in Terry County, right yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Nobody knows where anything is. I said every La Times article,
Speaker 2: first of I said, cover more murders, cover more crime,
Speaker 2: it bleeds, it leads, do that stuff. But also you
Speaker 2: used to have a graphic inset on every article of
Speaker 2: where this took place. And she said, oh, well, we're
Speaker 2: not interested in doing that, so.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean I grew up with the
Speaker 3: La Times and actually knew the Chamner family slightly when
Speaker 3: they still owned it, and you know, it was a
Speaker 3: real paper back then, right yeah, and including with foreign
Speaker 3: bureaus because that was the flush days for newspapers.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you talk about giving people what
Speaker 1: they want.
Speaker 3: One of the numbers that came out this week about
Speaker 3: the Post is they laid off sixteen of their nineteen.
Speaker 1: Climate change reporters.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, it doesn't matter what you think about the whole
Speaker 3: climate change issue. The point is is that we know,
Speaker 3: repeated surveys, pew gallop everybody else, that issue is a
Speaker 3: snoozer for the overwhelming number of Americans, right even it
Speaker 3: turns out environmentalists ranked climate change below local things like
Speaker 3: air pollution, trees and parks, and.
Speaker 1: Exactly they prioritize the local.
Speaker 3: And so, I mean, the only reason I hired that
Speaker 3: is because you know, the people thought they were smarter
Speaker 3: than the rest of us, said, Oh, we need to
Speaker 3: just jam people with climate change coverage instead of covering
Speaker 3: murders and you know the fun stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you. I mean, we talked about this
Speaker 4: a little time last time we talked.
Speaker 2: But you know, look, I'm I spent all my day
Speaker 2: thinking about you know, lofty, big things, Steve. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm not like you down there in the gutter of
Speaker 2: politics and policy. I'm you know, elevated here. But and
Speaker 2: I sometimes I do wonder. And I know most of
Speaker 2: the Ricochet listeners will roll their eyes at this because
Speaker 2: they've made up their mind.
Speaker 4: About me years ago.
Speaker 2: But i'my thing like you know, MI, like I don't
Speaker 2: want to get too soft here, like I don't want
Speaker 2: to become in some kind of woke whatever. And I
Speaker 2: was driving to the library the other day, and usually
Speaker 2: I walk, but it was too cold, so I'm driving,
Speaker 2: and I have too many books and I'm too old
Speaker 2: to carry them. And I've heard an NPR report about
Speaker 2: a healthcare some healthcare initiative, healthcare agency, not federal, but
Speaker 2: it's a nonprofit about climate change. And that of course,
Speaker 2: as you know, I don't know if you knew this, Steve,
Speaker 2: but the climate change has a bigger effect on women
Speaker 2: and minorities than anybody else. Your climate change is different
Speaker 2: from somebody else's climate change. And I was ever thinking,
Speaker 2: like what that's bananas? And as I pulled into library,
Speaker 2: the interviewer said, well, you know, some people are going
Speaker 2: to hear that. And I'm not saying I agree with them,
Speaker 2: so we can hear that. I wonder how exactly that
Speaker 2: affects doesn't affect all of us equally, And the person
Speaker 2: had and I had to stop. I had to stop
Speaker 2: park and I was there, but I had to listen
Speaker 2: to this answer. And the answer was this weirdly contorted
Speaker 2: thing that maybe if climate changes happen and you are
Speaker 2: displaced due to climate change, which of course we've seen already,
Speaker 2: And I was like, wait where I don't remember seeing that?
Speaker 2: But you know, this woman insisted that there have been
Speaker 2: great migrations because of climate change, that those women may
Speaker 2: enter it to a new place that doesn't have the
Speaker 2: same health access that they enjoyed from where they can
Speaker 2: Like that is the most bizarre use case I've ever
Speaker 2: heard of. Uh, But so I felt better about myself
Speaker 2: with thought, Okay, well, if I can recognize that.
Speaker 4: I know I'm still kind of sound philosophically.
Speaker 2: But again, it's like it is one of those things where,
Speaker 2: of course, now how many reporters are covering that beat,
Speaker 2: And if you're covering that beat, then you have to
Speaker 2: be looking for a reason to be covering that beat.
Speaker 2: So it's going to be everything and then and then
Speaker 2: when when no one wants to read it, you get
Speaker 2: mad at Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been a real Gresham's law. You know, bad
Speaker 3: money drives out good of environmental reporting generally. But I mean,
Speaker 3: there are a few mainstream reporters whose work on climate
Speaker 3: I have respected over the years, like Andy Revkin of
Speaker 3: the New York Times, but he left the New York
Speaker 3: Times a decade ago, and party was he did not
Speaker 3: always tow the party line one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And he's a big believer. I mean, he's not a
Speaker 1: skeptic or you know. And that's what happens, and you're
Speaker 1: left with a lot of hacks to do these crazy things.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you talk about life imitating art.
Speaker 1: You must know.
Speaker 3: The old joke goes back to the eighties about how
Speaker 3: the major papers would cover the end of the world
Speaker 3: coming tomorrow, you know, right, you know, the USA today
Speaker 3: says world to end tomorrow, but we're grinning and bearing it.
Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal world end tomorrow, Markets to close
Speaker 3: early see page A.
Speaker 1: Nine for details.
Speaker 3: The New York Times would be world to end tomorrow,
Speaker 3: Women and Minority's hardest hit. And then the Wash the
Speaker 3: Washington Post, who we're talking about now, would have said
Speaker 3: world end tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Reagan policies blamed. And now that's what we're reading. It's unbelievable, right, And.
Speaker 2: It's like it's it's a funny thing because you ask
Speaker 2: yourself of a wouldn't you if you're running a business
Speaker 2: wouldn't I mean any business. Don't you look at the
Speaker 2: people in that same sector who are doing well, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and steal their ideas and do those things.
Speaker 4: That is how you do it. That is like, I
Speaker 4: don't know, you have to take a business. I didn't
Speaker 4: go to business school, leave and I know that's how
Speaker 4: you do it.
Speaker 2: And you try to make french fries as the way
Speaker 2: that McDonald's makes french fries because people seem to like
Speaker 2: the McDonald's french fries and don't overthink it, don't grow
Speaker 2: a brain. And the Washington Post the only had only
Speaker 2: had really had there only three newspapers in New York
Speaker 2: in the country that had circulation and kind of the heft,
Speaker 2: and that was the La Times, the Washington Post and
Speaker 2: the New York Times. And of those three, only one
Speaker 2: really exists and one is thriving. And the solution would
Speaker 2: be just do.
Speaker 3: That right right, Well, I mean the Murdock example again,
Speaker 3: So in the Wall Street Journal has been profitable forever,
Speaker 3: but you know it gives it fills on a big
Speaker 3: important it is to reporting, right, yeah, exactly. And part
Speaker 3: of that service, of course, is the editorial page. They've
Speaker 3: always said back to the Robert Bartley days it's the
Speaker 3: only editorial page in America that sells subscriptions, which was right.
Speaker 3: And then Fox News of course was a stroke of genius,
Speaker 3: hugely profitable. So you know, i'd always heard a New
Speaker 3: York Post ran in the red and you think it's profitable.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it is.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't think it's profitable, but I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure the New York Oh no, no, the New
Speaker 2: York Post does run in the red, but a little bit.
Speaker 2: But it's enough that you know, Dad likes it, right, Yeah, right, dad, Right,
Speaker 2: when Dad goes, it'll probably.
Speaker 1: Go Yeah, it could be that's right. Well, we'll see.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, I'm very curious about Scott.
Speaker 3: Jennings on CNN, which you know, CNN's ratings are terrible,
Speaker 3: but I'll bet if we actually got the you know,
Speaker 3: hour by hour numbers. Maybe they're out there and I
Speaker 3: just haven't looked, but I'll bet Scott Jennings is attracting
Speaker 3: some viewers say oh, finally there's somebody on and it
Speaker 3: was different from all the other cloned lefties.
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think I think that like that could be. I
Speaker 2: mean that the solution is has never not been to
Speaker 2: In my opinion, the solution has never not been to, like,
Speaker 2: have a bunch of voices. If you're gonna have voices,
Speaker 2: have a bunch of them. That's how CNN was to
Speaker 2: begin with. They they had conservatives liberals yelling at each other.
Speaker 2: That was a crossfire was they decided not to do
Speaker 2: that for a while, and they you know, look, but
Speaker 2: that look cable news rankings came out today, right, Number
Speaker 2: one shows the five. Yeah, number two shows that is
Speaker 2: Jesse Waters. Number three shows Gutfeld, And I know gut Feld, right,
Speaker 2: I'm sure right now he's trying to convince them to
Speaker 2: say that he's actually number two, not number three. That
Speaker 2: when Jesse Waters the movie Brett Baer, Right, Sean Hannity,
Speaker 2: Laura Ingram, America reports that's number seven.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to think that that is the that's
Speaker 4: a that's there.
Speaker 2: That's what they call the box news every that's their
Speaker 2: every weekday news. That's their standard news. Will Kine and
Speaker 2: Martha McCallum, Yeah right, So, uh, what do they know
Speaker 2: that you don't like? But right, the solution is so obvious, right,
Speaker 2: it's but but they'll never do it right.
Speaker 3: One more entertainment question and then we're ready to get out.
Speaker 3: I've got an exit question for you, But one more
Speaker 3: entertainment question.
Speaker 1: Uh. I've been following the uh, the fight. Who's going
Speaker 1: to acquire?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers? Netflix is going to buy it? And Paramounts
Speaker 1: perished it in said no, we want to buy it.
Speaker 1: And I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm a cynic and thought maybe paramount was just trying
Speaker 3: to make Netflix have to pay more and have to
Speaker 3: pay cash just to punish them.
Speaker 1: It seems like a bad idea to me, but what
Speaker 1: do I know.
Speaker 2: It's a bad idea for either one of them. I
Speaker 2: think it's the worst idea for Netflix.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 2: I think that strategy could have been correct, but flipped
Speaker 2: Paramounts always wanted to buy it. I think Netflix came
Speaker 2: in and offered nobody should buy it. These things are
Speaker 2: too big. They need to be smaller. The system works
Speaker 2: better when it's atomized, and unfortunately, everyone's gonna have to
Speaker 2: learn that by losing a whole lot of money. And
Speaker 2: the solution isn't to have the government step in, which
Speaker 2: is I think they want any trust to come in,
Speaker 2: which is stupid in the same way that government shouldn't
Speaker 2: be subsidizing production at all. The California taxpayer shouldn't be
Speaker 2: subsidizing the cost of a making a movie. All those
Speaker 2: things that have to be worked out the proper way,
Speaker 2: which is with a lot of pain and screaming. But
Speaker 2: that's the only way to solve certain problems, right right,
Speaker 2: all right?
Speaker 3: Exit question not exactly personal, but it's a new semester
Speaker 3: in new year. What are you reading, either for class
Speaker 3: or on your own, just for your own edvocation. What's
Speaker 3: what's got your attention.
Speaker 2: I don't do any reading that isn't related to my
Speaker 2: because that's just time.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I'm behind on the reading I have to do. But
Speaker 2: I am reading the only two things I am reading.
Speaker 2: They are interesting, that are kind of they're not directly assigned.
Speaker 2: One is I'm finally getting through Dominion, Tom Hollands fantastic
Speaker 2: book about sort of like a kind of a swooping
Speaker 2: up and down look at the history of Christianity, which
Speaker 2: is great and juicy, and he's a wonderful writer, so
Speaker 2: it's great. And then I'm reading this Yale story in
Speaker 2: Carlos Air, who wrote a wonderful called Reformations, which is
Speaker 2: a nine hundred billion thousand pages long, which is but
Speaker 2: he's a wonderful writer, so it's not dry history. It's great.
Speaker 4: But the one I'm reading right now is called They Flew.
Speaker 2: And it's a story of he takes a historians look
Speaker 2: at the accounts of the saints and he says, if
Speaker 2: you have, you know, for our historical accuracy criteria, it's
Speaker 2: you know, multiple multiple accounts that are spread out and
Speaker 2: then a multiple unique accounts like why would no one
Speaker 2: would make this up unless it was true? And it's
Speaker 2: hard to say, it's hard to understand how a bunch
Speaker 2: of people in different places at different times, who didn't
Speaker 2: know each other would have the same account of some
Speaker 2: bananas things some saint did like fly right, And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: you just have to be He.
Speaker 4: Doesn't go as far.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not finished it yet, but he's a
Speaker 2: wonderful writer. So it's a great and I actually think
Speaker 2: that that is something on the horizon, the new kind.
Speaker 4: Of area of.
Speaker 2: Theological historical inquiry, which is, okay, well, what if what
Speaker 2: if the world is a lot weirder than we think
Speaker 2: it is? And whether we whether we agree it is
Speaker 2: or we don't agree with it. It's a fascinating thought experiment.
Speaker 2: So I recommend that book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think Peter Robinson brought up that
Speaker 3: title some weeks ago. I think it's the episode when
Speaker 3: we had Charles Marion to talk about his taking religion
Speaker 3: seriously book. If I recall that I've got the Tom
Speaker 3: Holland book on my ridiculously long reading pile or tall
Speaker 3: reading pile.
Speaker 1: That yeah, I never quite get through. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: looks really good.
Speaker 2: It's good as juicy, and it's like you can kind
Speaker 2: of you could kind of flip through it. I mean, right,
Speaker 2: I don't don't say that, but there are sections that
Speaker 2: I want to read, you know, the.
Speaker 1: Benedictine rules section. I have a I have a I
Speaker 1: actually got to put the list together.
Speaker 3: Books that are like that where you could just turn
Speaker 3: to almost any page and the writing is so good
Speaker 3: and so well constructed that you just enjoy it even
Speaker 3: if you haven't done all the stuff before it. And
Speaker 3: you know, that's very few books, but I have a
Speaker 3: few that most of them are older people don't write
Speaker 3: in that style anymore. Holland is an exception, but well.
Speaker 1: All right, uh, well, the listeners, as the old car
Speaker 1: Talk guys have said, you've just wasted another perfectly good
Speaker 1: hour listening to me and Rob.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is fun. We should do more often, of course.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I want James to get well yeah, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want him to be you know, but it's
Speaker 2: kind of fun, right.
Speaker 3: And Charlie Cook has had an on fire Twitter game
Speaker 3: this week. He's got a good Twitter game anyway, but yeah,
Speaker 3: he's really been firing left and right on all cylinders
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Speaker 1: So we'll see you in the comments. Everyone. Great to
Speaker 1: see Rob, hope to see you again soon.
Speaker 4: See you soon, Ricochet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Join the Conversation