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Speaker 1: Give you away.

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Speaker 2: You go ahead, you go right ahead.

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Speaker 1: I'll attempt some kind of segue and you will pick

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up on it.

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Speaker 2: I that's perfect, perfect.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast. James Lilyx is off today,

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as is Charlie Cook. Is Steve Hayward joined by Rob Long.

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Speaker 4: Yeah what does that mean? Like, so what happens?

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Speaker 2: James sick? And then you call Charlie and charlis I'm

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not doing it and you're like, well, yeah, who did

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we get?

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Speaker 3: That's the wrong opening note? Rob, Sorry, it's that I'm

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trying to do a little fifteen second one. Sorry, that's

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all right, you're rusty, right. Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast.

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It's Steve Hayward sitting in for James Lylyx, who is

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out today.

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Speaker 1: As is Charlie Cook. Joining us is Rob Long. So

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let's have ourselves a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Keep this this is real.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and seventy five.

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And as James always wants us to remind you, please

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join Ricochet at ricochet dot com.

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Speaker 1: It's not expensive.

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Speaker 3: Join the most stimulating conversations on the web. James is

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under the weather. I think Charles is out somewhere. I'm

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a little under the weather, So I apologize for my

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scratchy voice, but we managed to scrounge up Rob Long.

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Speaker 2: Scratch a right, you know what, you need to work

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on this because like like, well, you know, James is

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sick and Charlie's who knows where Charlie is? So I

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don't know. We got Yeah, we put out an all apb.

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We get this clown in. You know, maybe special guests.

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You could say we are well, I could you're under

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the weather. I get it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think of it this way. Rob

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is uh.

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Speaker 3: You know, I pick up the news every day. I'm

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on the road this week, so a little less news,

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but you know the good, the bad, the crazy, and

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I often think that you know, at least Rob Long

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has a blessed existence in a monastic occupation at the moment.

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Speaker 1: You probably missed some of this craziness.

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Speaker 4: Now, yeah, I wouldn't call it a monastic you don't.

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Speaker 2: We're like this sponsored or the seminary was created by

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very stern Presbyterians.

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Speaker 3: But they weren't that stern, right right right, Yeah, Well,

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Presbyterianism and monasticism don't often go together in the same sentence,

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but that was our last podcast together.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't have to go back through that, yeah, right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: So well today there is a whole lot in the news.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I have been predicting for years item

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number one, that eventually what was going to turn back

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a lot of the really extreme transgender craziness and I mean,

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frankly what I think, mutilating children and young teens. That

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the trial lawyers were going to rescue us from this

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because you would have and you know, we know there's

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a significant number of people who regretted making a transition

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and want to de transition, and I thought they're going

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to sue for malpractice. And one reason I think this,

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just very briefly, is I am familiar. Don't ask me

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how because it was a confidential settlement with NDAs. But

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some years ago I'm aware of a lawsuit brought against

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an abortion provider by someone who got an abortion as

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a teen with the usual no parental notification because that

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was always right and it was a look, they did

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not counsel me of the psychological risks of having an abortion,

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which you know a lot of young women they regret

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having done it, and sometimes there's trauma and ball. Okay, Well,

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the abortion provider settled very quickly because they did not

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want this to be spread around, right, And I think

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most people who think of a suit either against these

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transgender surgeries or even abortion, they don't really want to

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go through a trial either, because that's painful and difficult.

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But the object is that the lawyers who brought the

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case was let's make certain abortion providers uninsurable. And so

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I'm wondering if that's what's going to happen now with

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the transgender business.

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Speaker 2: Well, it could happen.

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Speaker 4: It also can happen naturally.

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Speaker 2: It's not as if it's not as if this stuff

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isn't already controversial, even in the context of the people

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who've been performing it. You know, the entire clinic, the

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Tavistaw Clinic in Britain, which is one of them. First

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of all, one of the most famous psychoanalytic institutes in

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the world, if not the most famous. I think Freud

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taught there. So this is the most establishment place there is.

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And they did this kind of therapy and this kind

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of and they not I don't think they did the surgery,

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but they they authorized the surgery on minors and the

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and the hormone therapy and all that stuff, and they

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not only decided to stop doing it, but I think

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a year later they closed the entire thing.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't because of pressure.

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Speaker 2: From you know, some I don't know what, you know,

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social conservative It was out of this genuine feeling that

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maybe they haven't been making a mistake.

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Speaker 4: And they were very careful.

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Speaker 2: They didn't say we're against this in general, or we

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don't think that you should be allowed to do this

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if you if you feel it's necessary or whatever. I don't,

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I don't know, but they did say that not for kids, right,

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and that I mean, that doesn't seem like an outrageous criterion,

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which is you got to be eighteen or nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Right, right? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Uh. Well.

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Speaker 3: The other aspect of this is I think we now

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have pretty good data that there's an aspect of social

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contagion going on here. And it's kind of lumpy, right,

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it tends to because why is it so high in

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bel Air and Cambridge, Massachusetts and not in.

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Speaker 1: Peoria, right right? Uh?

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Speaker 2: And it does remind me joke Bill Bill Maher said

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that he says like yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, uh, and I mean I'm sure, yeah, you'll remember

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that was it thirty years ago? Now, you had this outbreak,

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outbreak epidemic of anorexia and bilimia among young women, right,

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and that that clearly had a contaging effect.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't some and there's no epidemic.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's not caused by a virus or something, right, right,

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And but it just you know, a group think and

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so forth. On the other hand, I think, uh, you know,

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the identitarians as I call them, one more thought about that,

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and but you may agree with me at this.

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Speaker 1: I do know four or five transgender individuals, men who

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change teams, as I like to put it, but all

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in adulthood, some of them far into adulthood.

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Speaker 3: Right, And you know they all, by the way, most

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of them are not down with the you know, I

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can go in any bathroom I want and sort of

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aggressiveness of it, right, quite the opposite. And most of

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them are either conservative or libertarian. And they all say

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the same thing. You know, I thought I would be

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happier as the other thing, and I am. And so

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I take that and respect it. It's rare but real,

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and I think probably one a typical of the identitarian

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left of taking it too far. They're actually going to

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make it harder for people who really do have genuine

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gender dysphoria.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's probably true.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I find the whole thing so bad, Like anyway,

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because of the I'm trying to be nicer. I wrote

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a I wrote a piece for commentary. It's gonna be

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out next week, and I put in a story that's

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true with a joke at the end. And I'm sure

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I'm gonna trouble.

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Speaker 4: For you know, Like.

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Speaker 2: I have a friend who is in the has been

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the fashion sort of retail fashion business for a long time.

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He's very well known guys for a bunch of books,

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and you know his joke as he goes. You know,

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a lot of these you know, these guys just you know,

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they think they're going to become women. And it's like, well,

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wait a minute, think about this, like what is your

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summer Look? You know, you it isn't just this thing

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where you just wake up one day and you get

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to you know, and you got all you're thinking about

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these things because but women have been thinking about these

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things forever.

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Speaker 4: And I suspect that that is.

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Speaker 2: But you know, some some of the old some of

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the older gentlemen, the older meaning you know, in their

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in their grown up phase, who've decided to do this.

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You know, I don't. I'm not sure they at this point.

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I'm sure they trade it up in the looks department,

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you know. Yeah, And but but again, that is entirely,

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entirely up to them. And I celebrate the courage it

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takes to make a change like that, and I hope

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that they have equal courage if they if they regret it,

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that there's the equal embrace of their changing back.

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Speaker 4: I think that happens too.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to, but it can. And in general,

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you know, I think when you're grown up, I mean fine,

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and I think there is a certain and I don't

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I'm not. I am not, by no means am I

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questioning the good faith of the people who have having

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this done or doing this themselves, which is crucial. They're

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doing to themselves, which is fine. But you know, some

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of it does feel a little like a very very

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rich society and a very very privileged group. And we

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all are, i mean, just by being Americans in twenty

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twenty six, we're incredibly rich.

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Speaker 4: It's just kind of like, well, I can do this,

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I can do it, so why not you.

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Speaker 3: Know, well, we've also, I mean we Something that I

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think is never made distinct is that it's one thing

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to just cross dress, right, you know, I want to

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wear a dress and call myself a woman. And that's

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another thing to go all the way, shall we say,

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right and have surgeries use modern medicine. And it reminds

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me of the old breakfast joke that the chicken is involved,

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but the pig is committed, right, So you know, the

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people go all the way, they really can't switch back

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very easily.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I don't you know, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we're not being honest to them either.

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They are not switching to something they really aren't. It's

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really just a more a closer visual approximation of what

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they want. But they aren't able to do the thing.

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You know, if you become a woman, you don't have

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a uterus, you can't have children, you don't you don't

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have you don't menstruate. And then there's also the truth

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part of it is I have a friend of mine

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who's very done, She's been doing this kind of researching

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a long time and she he says, you know what,

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they don't tell people is that you will not be

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able to experience sexual pleasure, right right, Yeah, So this

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if the if you're drawn to that, if this is

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somehow these things and look, we're all kind of wired

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in some weird way with God knows. I wouldn't want

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to look under the hood of your head, you wouldn't

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want look at ah of mine. But if that, if

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that is part of what's happening here, then you're going

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to be really disappointed. Yeah. Also this when you try

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to buy shoes, I think that's the only thing that's

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that's not going to be a good.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, one last serious point and then take a

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wide angle lens look at a broader scene. I do

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know that apparently one bar to more malpractice use is

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statutes of limitation. Now I'm an expert on this, but

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I do know that when starting thirty years ago, you

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had all the explosion of the scandals of sex abuse

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by Catholic priests, the boy Scouts and so forth, that

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a lot of states ran out and extended there's statute

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of limitations for those kinds of claims. And we'll have

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to keep track on whether that happens here. I suspect

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it might in some states.

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Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. I think also I feel like

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that I would say to those people on the pro

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side or on the sort of continuing to perform these

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things from miners, is that if you want to look

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and see what can happen to a to may be

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the most the most venerable, strongest institution and earth has

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ever known in the Catholic Church, take a look, and

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that will happen to the psychiatric or the psychological industry,

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and that all those institutions if this keeps going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. So more broadly, I think

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that what I call the.

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Speaker 3: Identitarians, which is this and the whole sort of Dei world,

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it's pretty evident to me they are digging in, thinking

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if we can survive three more years of Trump, which

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will seem like twenty years, right, because you measure Trump

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and dog years if you're on the left, right, doesn't

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seem every day a want. And they're digging in, and

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you know they're disguising the Dei stuff on campus.

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Speaker 1: That's what I follow the most.

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Speaker 3: Closely, and and I don't keep want to don't want

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to keep beating this dead horse. But the identitarianism business

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has always been sort of the extreme of the idea

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of liberal autonomy, of self definition, self creation, totally unmoored

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with you know, tradition, history, human nature and the wilfulness

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of it is what makes them, I think, so angry

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and aggressive in a lot of domains, and so they're

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not going to go away easily even after just one

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or two lawsuits, is my expectation.

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Speaker 4: I think that might might be the case.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, once you've once you've cracked, these

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things only really work in their sort of mob intimidation,

258
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like if you don't if you don't do this, we're

259
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going to punish you in all these different ways. Once

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that's broken, it's really hard to scare people again. And

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you're already seeing it in colleges, like college is sort

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of the.

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Speaker 4: Bell weather, Right. This all happened a while ago.

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Speaker 2: People perfectly happy sending their kids to a school that

265
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doesn't that doesn't necessarily have the same cachet, the same

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name as a school as a school might have had

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ten or fifteen years ago. Now, I think this is

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all gonna take a long time. Yeah, but I'm not

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sure it's I'm not sure it's a slam dunk for

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the weighted out the playing possum, waiting it out weighted outers.

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I mean, look, if we could, if we all survived

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three more years of Trump, that great.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not sure I'm going to survive.

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Speaker 2: Let alone, let alone the left. But my guess is

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that these these only work if you could point to

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everyone to say everyone's doing it, and you'll be can

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roundly condemned if you don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure they can do that anymore.

279
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Speaker 3: Right, Well, you know, one indicator is always comics, right,

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And I mean I get a lot of social media feeds.

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Speaker 1: Like you do.

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Speaker 3: And you know, there are always a few comedians who

283
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would make fun of this business, but lately I've been

284
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seeing a lot more of them do it right. Yeah, right,

285
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and and they bust up the audience. It's pretty clear

286
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that the you know, okay, and that got significant. Well

287
00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:08,519
in other news that is overlaps, maybe a little another

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batch of Epstein files here the last few days. I

289
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hope you got I hope you got to miss that

290
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Robert of that catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: Also, no, no, that's like no one's talking about of course.

292
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I think that's the most amazing thing about being in

293
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seminary is that no one is talking about the news

294
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in any at any point, they'll make you know some

295
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of the people who are on the left, which a

296
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lot of a lot of them, will make you know.

297
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They'll make these oblique represents, you know, in these troubled times,

298
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which so do we get all we've always been able

299
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to say. But I am, of course obsessed with it.

300
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And because it's to me what I find, I'm such

301
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a Pollyannist weirdo. I just assumed that all of this

302
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,879
talk about how Epstein's network was so big and you

303
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,960
knew everybody and all that stuff, that was like a

304
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,559
lot of nonsense, Like really, I don't think that really happens.

305
00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:54,559
And then you go on these email list and it's

306
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extraordinary how much I mean, his full time job, Look,

307
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:01,720
I might box right now is like twenty emails. I'm

308
00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:06,840
late on returning his He seems to be doing nothing

309
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,720
but on the phone all day. Like I mean, that's

310
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that would be my defense where he where his lawyer

311
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,360
if he were alive and he were facing you know,

312
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,440
more assault charge than's it? When did he have time,

313
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ladies jumping the jury between eleven eleven and eleven twenty three,

314
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When the when the plaintiffs insists he was attacking her.

315
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He was actually setting nine emails, like we could see,

316
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like the guy seemed to be doing nothing with that.

317
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Speaker 4: So but it is interesting. It is interesting.

318
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

319
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Speaker 3: I mean I instinctively resist frothy conspiracy theories, and you know,

320
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I want to really be proven. And on the other hand,

321
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I noticed the same thing. How did he make his

322
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money when he's spending all his time being social chairman

323
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,480
seemingly twenty four to seven and it had cost him

324
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a lot of money to do all that too. So

325
00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:57,320
I mean a few things have leaked out. I mean,

326
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,639
he really droves some hard bargains, evenly squeezed some people.

327
00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:01,919
He frauded some people. The New York Times had a

328
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,559
pretty good story on a dive a couple of months

329
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:06,879
ago or a month ago, and it really detailed that

330
00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:09,759
he was a sharpeither. Okay, but it's still I don't know,

331
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:12,720
it still seems so out of proportion. I do kind

332
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,519
of wish it would all go away. Although last thing,

333
00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:16,080
maybe you, I don't know if you caught this. I

334
00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:19,240
think it was maybe Bill Marshow last Friday night. I've

335
00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:22,240
just read about it. But he said, where does QAnon

336
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,039
go to get its apology, right. I mean, I don't

337
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,840
know if you know all the QAnon stories, and you

338
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,840
know they're way out there. I mean I met someone

339
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,600
once who said, this is, you know, eight or nine

340
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:34,159
years ago, right that you know there is this organized

341
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:34,919
pedophile ring.

342
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 1: Forget the pizza shop. There's tunnels that start from a

343
00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:41,679
mile underneath a Denver airport to go all over the country,

344
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and that's where the trafficking is going on.

345
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Speaker 3: I just you know, I mean, you know, I'd rather

346
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:49,759
how about we talk about Kim Trail something more sensible just.

347
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Speaker 2: The way I can see, right, right, Well, yeah, I

348
00:16:52,919 --> 00:16:54,679
think that. Well, I mean, you know, it doesn't seem

349
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like it requires much of a conspiracy.

350
00:16:56,919 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 4: It's just rich people and a guy.

351
00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:02,320
Speaker 2: What's interesting to me is that he is Epstein really

352
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:08,359
is a classic character you've seen in fiction and in

353
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,920
plays and stuff. He's every single person he is emailing with,

354
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:21,680
he despises, he hates everybody, and if the great tragedy

355
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,680
of his life I think for him was that he

356
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:28,319
committed suicide before he could see the destruction that he created.

357
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,160
It isn't as if this guy, there's not one of

358
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,039
those emails in which he's genuinely concerned for a friend

359
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:34,799
or anything.

360
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Speaker 4: I mean, look, even the worst.

361
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Speaker 2: People, you know, even Hitler was nice to his dog.

362
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,160
Right this he seems like all he a lifetime of

363
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,359
resentment and anger and he hates these guys more than anything.

364
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:52,640
And and I think that drove it. I mean, it's

365
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,720
very it's very the worst thing about it for me

366
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:56,920
is that there's no index like the No One's index

367
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,440
that so you can search on the web. When when

368
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,440
the North Koreans hacked the Sony emails, yeah, and then

369
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,319
Wiki Leaks put it on the web and you could

370
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,839
you could like search for your name and if you ever,

371
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,880
if you had, like I did some stuff at Disney,

372
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I mean at Sony in those years, and so I

373
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,640
went and looked for my name because I could see

374
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,160
what the business affairs people were emailing to each other

375
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,359
back and forth about my contract and this and that.

376
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,200
It was really fascinating, but they were kind of like

377
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,839
they weren't really lying. There was one moment where it

378
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,759
was like, oh, I got it, I see what you

379
00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:33,920
guys are up to. But mostly, you know, people even

380
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,519
in emails, they're not twirling their mustache. But this guy

381
00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:38,000
and I don't think he is either, but you could

382
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,680
tell that there's just he just he's a this is

383
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,000
I think were he alive today, he would not be

384
00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:55,440
disappointed at the wholesale reputational destruction that he has created.

385
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:57,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had not picked up on that

386
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,200
angle of it, Rob, I have to confess that there's

387
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,440
sort of malice there born of you know, anger and

388
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,359
resentment and whatever.

389
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,160
Speaker 1: I miss that, but yeah, I did enjoy.

390
00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I have not been calling through these things,

391
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,200
but you can't avoid some of it. Boy, what the

392
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,039
Allen sure turns up a lot? Yeah, emails right, wanting

393
00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:20,279
Epstein to broker you know, small bit parts.

394
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: In his movies, and you know, I meet all kinds

395
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:22,960
of crazy stuff.

396
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think but Epstein kind of knew.

397
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,359
I mean like the devil.

398
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:26,799
Speaker 4: The devil.

399
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:29,839
Speaker 2: Uh, the devil always appears to you as a solution.

400
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,799
Yeah right, it's whatever your weaknesses is what the Devil's

401
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:35,519
gonna say. I could take care of that for you.

402
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,079
Speaker 1: Right.

403
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 2: It's never it's never something and it's never even something

404
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,680
grand like I can make you a king of the world.

405
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,599
I mean, that's what we that's how we imagine it.

406
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,680
But really when the devil comes to you. He says, Look,

407
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,680
I know this, this this little thing is bothering you.

408
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,400
Let me help you. Let me help you financi your movie,

409
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,599
and I can sell some. I'll sell some walk on,

410
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,079
so before you know it, you'll have all the money

411
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:56,440
you need.

412
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,079
Speaker 4: Okay.

413
00:19:58,519 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it starts right by the way.

414
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: Well, yes, I do.

415
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,279
Speaker 3: I mean, well, maybe this is the time to do this.

416
00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:12,519
I was going to bring it up later, but you

417
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,480
know so, I'm still out in California for some crazy reason.

418
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:17,319
Speaker 1: It's way.

419
00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:19,039
Speaker 3: Here's a new one for you that I was talking

420
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:22,079
about just yesterday. Some people here in Texas uh a

421
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,119
three hundred and sixty five million dollar bike lane eight

422
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,200
miles along the La River, which, as you know, is

423
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,279
a storm drain. It's concrete channel, right, it was supposed

424
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:35,640
to be open last year. They haven't started construction, and

425
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,720
the construction cross is now estimated to be over a

426
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:42,480
billion dollars all in for eight miles along the La River.

427
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 1: And how is this possible? Right, that's just a measure

428
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,680
of the comprehensive failure of California.

429
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,279
Speaker 4: But equally already concrete. They what do they have to do?

430
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: Exactly?

431
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,319
Speaker 3: No, that's really how hard is a bike path on

432
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,759
the La River which is empty ninety nine percent of

433
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:01,559
the time time, as you know, right, also have to

434
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:03,000
spend only.

435
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,519
Speaker 1: In California, Yeah, exactly. No one wants to ride there.

436
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:08,119
Oh my god.

437
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: But that brings me to your, well, your former industry, right,

438
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:13,319
which I know we've talked about how it's in free

439
00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:15,519
fall in California because of high costs and everything else.

440
00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:19,359
And the latest idea that apparently Governor Newsom was talking

441
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,720
about is, well, we have to come up with some

442
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:25,960
subsidies and tax breaks for the Hollywood industry in California,

443
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,039
which is, you know, do we have to have subsidies

444
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,279
to take coals to Newcastle? I mean, it's unbelievable to

445
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:34,559
think that what has been one of the premier industries

446
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:36,799
of California for one hundred years was on such hard

447
00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:39,839
times that it needs And I know, Georgia and Oklahoma

448
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:42,400
and all these other states New Mexico aren't trying to

449
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,839
lure the film industry, but California you would think would

450
00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:48,400
have such an advantage like Las Vegas has an advantage.

451
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,680
I mean in casino gaming has spread over the country,

452
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,640
but Las Vegas still thrives because none of those places

453
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,799
can offer what Las Vegas does. And I've always thought

454
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,960
Hollywood will always offer what all those other states can't offer,

455
00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:00,920
even with bribes.

456
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's probably true in some respect. The

457
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:09,400
problem with it is that we say it's a runaway production.

458
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,559
They call it in show business runaway productions leaving LA

459
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,519
But there was too much production for you know, the

460
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:17,720
past fifteen twenty years. So it's sort of like you

461
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:20,039
think about them as oil wells, right, you know, you

462
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,599
drive through oil towns and like you see these dereks

463
00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:24,039
that are not being used, with the oil pumps that

464
00:22:24,039 --> 00:22:26,000
aren't going up and down, up and down, up and down,

465
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:26,920
and why is that?

466
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 4: It's just because of the price of oil. It's not

467
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:28,960
worth it.

468
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 2: Those things will start moving when it makes economic sense. Right.

469
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,559
We just over invested in show business into TV shows

470
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:42,599
for frankly, mostly streaming services now needed twenty five thirty

471
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,400
forty fifty sixty one hundred originals, right, so they all

472
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,519
had to be made. They had to be made somewhere.

473
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:50,640
So if production went down to where it was when

474
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,039
I started, or midway around there, that would probably be

475
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,880
That's probably the outcome the problem with a budget is

476
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,559
money is fungible. So if I get the state to

477
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:03,160
pay for something and said we're not going to pay

478
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,200
for the big star salaries, We're only going to pay

479
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,240
for this or this or this, well guess what's gonna

480
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,960
happen to the star salaries. They're going to suck up

481
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,599
the Because the truth is, no matter what matter how

482
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,680
you pay for it, the people who are whose faces

483
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,359
are on the screen really for the not for the

484
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,119
first time, but for the most extreme time ever, they

485
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,640
are more important. It costs ten million dollars to twenty

486
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,839
million dollars to launch a title, whether it's a movie

487
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,880
or TV show or anything, into public consciousness. Every time,

488
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,279
you don't have to every million dollars, you don't have

489
00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:37,559
to spend to try to tell people what the show

490
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,480
is about, who's in it. You're it's money in the bank.

491
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:44,079
So you want a recognizable star, you want to build on.

492
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,599
That's why they those why all the reboots that aren't

493
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:48,720
really reboots, That's why all the tie ins, the things,

494
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,240
That's why all the stars like you just need to

495
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,079
you need to watch the TV show with the actor

496
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,640
whose name you know, rather than have me try to

497
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,000
introduce you to some name because its too risky, even

498
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:01,160
though you and I Boke would say, well, that's dumb

499
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:04,640
because look at the biggest the biggest hits in cable

500
00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:07,480
streaming in the past ten fifteen years, and they start.

501
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,319
Speaker 4: Nobody's right, right, but that's risky.

502
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: So well, follow up question.

503
00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: I distinctly remember you here on Ricochet I'm going to

504
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,440
say five six years ago, at the height of COVID,

505
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:22,559
looking head to after COVID, and you made a comment

506
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,240
about how ah, there's the pipelines drying up, and so

507
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,319
right now, all the Hollywood production companies are green lighting

508
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,559
anything that walks through the door something like that. And

509
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,400
you know, I watched some of these streaming shows now

510
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,880
or I'll dial them up, and I have two thoughts.

511
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,519
One is, the production values are really really good, and

512
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,559
the acting is kind of average to mediocre, and the

513
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:44,480
plots aren't very good.

514
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:45,519
Speaker 1: It's just not very good.

515
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:49,319
Speaker 3: And I sometimes wonder if the high production values now

516
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,720
are actually an impediment to people enjoying a show, because

517
00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:54,039
I look at the old reruns of seventies sitcoms So

518
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,400
tax or whatever, and I always thought, you know, they're

519
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,119
kind of grainy compared to what we have today. Sometimes

520
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,400
the laugh track too much and the lines are clunky,

521
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,200
but it worked right. It's it's like, well, old coat

522
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,720
and some of these shows now try too hard, it

523
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:07,480
seems to me, and.

524
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is gonna go.

525
00:25:09,519 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, it's gonna have to go with less, right,

526
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,480
that's that's usually the solution is that you when a

527
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,039
bubble burst, everybody has to figure out what they really

528
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:18,640
want to do in their lives, and some people are

529
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,440
you know, look, there is no way around it if

530
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,720
there are going to be fewer people working in show

531
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:29,359
business in a year than there are now, and everybody's

532
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,720
waiting for the other person to leave.

533
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:32,799
Speaker 4: First, right, And it's not how that works.

534
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,759
Speaker 2: Like you got to like if you could, if you,

535
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,799
I would say this to anybody, if you haven't worked

536
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:39,799
in six months, nine months in any capacity in show

537
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:44,880
business and you can leave, leave, yeah, you'll your life

538
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,839
will be immeasurably, immeasurely healthier. But no one's listening to

539
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:50,400
me when I say that.

540
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,839
Speaker 3: I know right well that they will as soon as

541
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:55,240
you become father Rob.

542
00:25:56,319 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, given to order them, Yeah, exactly right.

543
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,039
Speaker 1: So you know I was in Washington, d C. A

544
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,039
week ago today and it was two degrees, which you know.

545
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,079
Speaker 3: I mean I lived in Washington for fifteen years and

546
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,039
I don't ever remember being that cold, and it's been

547
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:11,599
that cold for a while, and I think it's still

548
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:12,559
cold up where you are.

549
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: I know, I've had some people freeze to death. What's

550
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:19,079
the answer for this? I mean, we just need thicker blankets.

551
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:20,680
What do we need to do well?

552
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,599
Speaker 4: I mean, look, there's no answer to being cold. I mean,

553
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:23,799
we're cold, that's all.

554
00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: I mean. I remember it was people we've never had

555
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,640
a snowstorm like this, like, well, we had one in

556
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:31,119
twenty seventeen and in twenty eighteen.

557
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,759
Speaker 4: We have them at every you know, five six, seven years.

558
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,559
Speaker 2: I'm not making an argue back climate change for or against,

559
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:40,119
but this is not This does not seem unprecedented to me.

560
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,400
I remember when I was producing a show that was

561
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:44,680
we were shooting out on Long Island, and there was

562
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,240
two weeks there where I had to wake up because

563
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:52,440
I was running the show super early to hear whether

564
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:56,839
because the unions require certain closures and insurance requires certain

565
00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:01,200
standards for closures. And then the lawyer studio lawyer who

566
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,200
would decide whether you you know, they were not the

567
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,640
studio would not want to be liable for any accidents

568
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,039
to close. That studio lawyer was conveniently located in Los Angeles,

569
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,119
so I'd have to wake that guy up at three

570
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,480
in the morning, which he hated.

571
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 4: Was like, but yes, you're going to be up at

572
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,480
three in the morning.

573
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: And and he he had to make the decision whether

574
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,839
we as a studio, we we as a studio could open.

575
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,920
And that's because the snow is so terrible and it's

576
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,960
not that bad. It wasn't that bad this year. So

577
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,920
it's cold, and then suddenly it's warm, you know. Then

578
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,599
you get a thirty two degree day, and then you

579
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,640
got an eleven degree day, and it's called winter.

580
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 3: Right yeah, right, and and and then comes summer and

581
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:45,160
it's all climate change all the time.

582
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: Right yeah. Yeah.

583
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,319
Speaker 4: Then I was like, oh my god, it's never been

584
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:47,680
this hot.

585
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: Right, well, yeah, yes, it has actually a year ago,

586
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:52,960
but the last time it was hot, right yeah.

587
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: And then the other question is, uh, even if you've

588
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,240
got the right accouterments for coping with the weather, what

589
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:02,720
do you do for your long term future, which is

590
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,720
a different kind of fabric.

591
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 4: Well, I hope that that is not a segue, because

592
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:09,359
if it.

593
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Is, that's a terrible one. I know.

594
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

595
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,599
Speaker 2: On a scale of one a Lilacs, that's like a three.

596
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,119
But okay, he's sick, so you wouldn't want to show

597
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,920
him up right. That's actually fine because you know, as

598
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,559
you know, it's like last year it was winter and

599
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,640
last year was summer. And that's what happens with the

600
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:28,240
years they pass, and the passing of another year is

601
00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,319
marked by a grand celebration of resolutions. And while resolutions

602
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,119
tend towards the health and fitness, there comes a time

603
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,079
to start thinking about what comes after healthier living to

604
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,400
make sure the ones you love are covered, like life

605
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606
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617
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618
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619
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620
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621
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627
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628
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629
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630
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Speaker 3: And we thank Fabric for sponsoring this the Ricochet Podcast.

631
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,000
As James always likes to add, well, all right, let's

632
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,559
turn to another I guess collapsing industry, or at least

633
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:21,279
collapsing media property and The Washington Post right, and I'm

634
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:23,119
sorry James is not here today. I'll bet he has

635
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,400
some mixed feelings about this as an old, ink stained wretch,

636
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,599
and I sympathize with that. My first job out of

637
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,079
college a long time ago was doing the local news

638
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,720
reporting for a suburban daily that no longer exists, and

639
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,359
I realized then it was an unpromising professional field.

640
00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:39,319
Speaker 1: I had no idea to be so bad. But the Post.

641
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:44,440
What to say about this? First of all, I do

642
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:45,039
the progression.

643
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: I think you know these numbers, So Arianna Huffington sold

644
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,880
the Huffington Post. Was it twenty some years ago? For

645
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:53,039
so I call three hundred million dollars? I don't even

646
00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:54,839
I don't even know the Huffing the Post still exists.

647
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a bucket shop man,

648
00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:57,599
but I think it is.

649
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

650
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,319
Speaker 3: And then so then you know, few years later, Jeff

651
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:05,039
bezos byes the Washington Post for two hundred and fifty

652
00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:08,839
million dollars. You know, this legendary publication with a you know,

653
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,519
a seemingly usable built in market.

654
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:12,319
Speaker 5: Uh.

655
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,599
Speaker 3: And that's couch cushion change for him, of course. And

656
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,440
that's what's annoying so many people who are laid off

657
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,480
this week, who seem to think they're entitled to endless

658
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,680
subsidies from him. Uh So A couple of points. One is,

659
00:31:24,039 --> 00:31:26,920
you know the New York Times is thriving financially. I

660
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,680
mean they're making lots of money, and you know the

661
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:31,319
Post was losing one hundred million a year. The difference there,

662
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,559
I think you probably know and listeners may know, is

663
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,480
that it's not from ads and news coverage. It's from

664
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:39,039
all the collateral things they did. They figured out early

665
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:43,799
on the crossword puzzle. They bought wordle they do games.

666
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: They bought a couple of proprietary what's it called the

667
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,839
there's a sports site they bought that people they extra for.

668
00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:53,039
So you know, they figured out the digital media world

669
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,200
that cross subsidizes the old fashioned news. Although I think

670
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,400
they've shrunk that a little bit.

671
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 4: I think they have.

672
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember years ago people were talking a very

673
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,920
famous venture capitalist had a thing he had on Twitter,

674
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,480
you called the New York Times death watch. Ah, and

675
00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:11,519
we're gonna watch it, watch the New York Times die.

676
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:14,400
Of course that we are there. They're ascified and slow,

677
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,359
and you look at what they've done, and they have

678
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,559
whether they've announced it or not. I mean, obviously New

679
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,279
York Times to you me as you know, we are

680
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,039
enraged at their headlines and their editorial editorializing on the

681
00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:29,039
front page, all that stuff, right, But still what they

682
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,359
realized was they a long, hard mirror. Look at the mirror.

683
00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:34,880
They said, what are we really? We are a service business.

684
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 4: And they used to have.

685
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: If you want to go see a movie, or you

686
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:41,039
wanted to go to a play, or you wanted to

687
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:44,000
go to a restaurant, or you wanted to live your life,

688
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,039
the New York Times you looked at because it gave

689
00:32:47,119 --> 00:32:50,680
you all that information, like their theater section told you

690
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:52,920
what was playing in the movie theaters and all that stuff.

691
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:57,119
And they doubled down on those things. Now they weren't.

692
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,960
Nobody checks the newspaper to see where the movies are.

693
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:06,680
But their food section is terrific. And I did I

694
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:08,319
do wordle I do the crossword every day. Now I

695
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:10,960
do the Crossword. I get a paper delivered, which is

696
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,119
a sign of geriatric, you know, mental decline, but I

697
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,359
still do it. And that the humility it takes to

698
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,599
see what you really are, not what you've become thanks

699
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,319
to the Internet, what you always were these newspapers were

700
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,279
always that they just got a little too big for

701
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:32,799
their bridges. Over the past twenty thirty years, when we

702
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:36,480
were flooded with journalism students and all sorts of nonsense

703
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:38,559
that they went to school to study journalism, all this

704
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,079
bs that they swallowed and preened around with themselves, which

705
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:46,279
was ridiculous. Right now they're faced with, Okay, why do

706
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,480
I read this every day? And there are reasons why

707
00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:51,759
people do you just have to give them those reasons

708
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,119
and instead, I mean, I remember, I mean, this is

709
00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:57,039
this is a dumb I'm not talking out of school.

710
00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:01,519
It was so long ago having dinner back when I

711
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:03,640
used to hang around with Rupert Murdoch, having dinner with

712
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,039
Rupert moroc and Peter Robinson, and we were with Rupert

713
00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:07,640
in l A.

714
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,039
Speaker 5: And uh.

715
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 4: We were sort of talking about wicked know what what what?

716
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 5: What?

717
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:13,679
Speaker 2: What?

718
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 5: What?

719
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:15,679
Speaker 2: What? What would you what would you do if you

720
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,639
were right?

721
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:20,039
Speaker 4: And he goes that or no, you know. I said,

722
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,599
well would you ever buy the La Times?

723
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: And he said no? And I said, well don't you?

724
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,920
And I tried to explain to him what I thought

725
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:30,079
LA was, like, LA's this.

726
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 5: Big, sprawling baroque city, it's all his got movie stars

727
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,960
and like sex scandals and creepy weird murders and gangle.

728
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: I was like, amazing, So this is a tabloid city.

729
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,159
It's got no tabloid and he kind of looked at

730
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,440
it's like huh, but he said, well, you know, even

731
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,000
the New York Post doesn't make that much money and

732
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:52,800
say it's hard.

733
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:54,679
Speaker 4: Well, guess what he's doing.

734
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm gonna that there's a there's a tabloid in

735
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,239
kel the California Post I think it's called, said basically

736
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,119
the New York Post for California, which is like very

737
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:07,719
East Coast center, which is like, well New York City,

738
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,800
it's one tabloid and all of California gets another. But

739
00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:16,199
it might work. But that's what people want. Page six, right,

740
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,400
you know the recipes, puzzle, sports scores. Well, you know

741
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:25,719
New York Times about Wirecutter, which is a terrific consumer

742
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:26,960
products review site.

743
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,039
Speaker 4: What do they want? They want service?

744
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: And then you know, let's be honest, it's great that

745
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:38,840
you have a beyrout bureau. Right, Nobody's like, that's not

746
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,679
what's driving me. No one has ever picked up the newspapers.

747
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,079
They've said, I wonder what, you know, what are what

748
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:49,320
they're what is happening in Singapore? It's like, why were

749
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,280
there all those sirens down the street. Why why were

750
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,639
the cops surrounding that house that I drove home on

751
00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:58,039
the way home from work. They want that's what they

752
00:35:58,039 --> 00:35:58,920
want to know what's going on?

753
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,679
Speaker 3: Right? I think the California Post already has a staff

754
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,440
of eighty and they're adding more, you know, the all

755
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,119
different kinds of positions. Their office is in Century City,

756
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,800
which I think I think makes sense. I mean, Downtown LA,

757
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,920
as you know, is all bankers and lawyers and this

758
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:16,760
kind of boring. Yeah, the other side of town is

759
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,519
where the action is.

760
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 2: So they already own they already own the space, correct. Yeah,

761
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,280
So it's like, you know, I'm not spending any money.

762
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,360
If you got no fancy offices for you people, you're

763
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,679
going to be in the offices that we already have.

764
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 4: I think it's true.

765
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,519
Speaker 2: I also, I mean I also I remember years ago

766
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,440
I was talking to a New York LA Times reporter.

767
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,400
She was pretty high up there, and I was saying, look,

768
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,840
I've lived in LA for twenty I've lived in LA

769
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,119
for twenty years of this At that point I believed

770
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:45,800
for twenty years, and you're always driving everywhere, so I've

771
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,400
seen the whole city. I have no idea where anything is.

772
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:51,760
Like La is one of those places where I always

773
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,760
say to people, where was Rodney King beaten by the police?

774
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:58,199
And they always think south Central. No, No, it was

775
00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,719
way out in the far Valley, but Coyment way out there,

776
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,199
practically on the other side of like almost in Seniorality.

777
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:06,639
Speaker 1: Actually almost in Terry County, right yeah, right, yeah.

778
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: Nobody knows where anything is. I said every La Times article,

779
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:14,159
first of I said, cover more murders, cover more crime,

780
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:17,320
it bleeds, it leads, do that stuff. But also you

781
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,840
used to have a graphic inset on every article of

782
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:25,119
where this took place. And she said, oh, well, we're

783
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:26,760
not interested in doing that, so.

784
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,599
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean I grew up with the

785
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,400
La Times and actually knew the Chamner family slightly when

786
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,760
they still owned it, and you know, it was a

787
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,159
real paper back then, right yeah, and including with foreign

788
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,440
bureaus because that was the flush days for newspapers.

789
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you talk about giving people what

790
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:41,679
they want.

791
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 3: One of the numbers that came out this week about

792
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,079
the Post is they laid off sixteen of their nineteen.

793
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,199
Speaker 1: Climate change reporters.

794
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

795
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:54,039
Speaker 3: Now, it doesn't matter what you think about the whole

796
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:56,000
climate change issue. The point is is that we know,

797
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,360
repeated surveys, pew gallop everybody else, that issue is a

798
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,599
snoozer for the overwhelming number of Americans, right even it

799
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:07,360
turns out environmentalists ranked climate change below local things like

800
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,400
air pollution, trees and parks, and.

801
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: Exactly they prioritize the local.

802
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: And so, I mean, the only reason I hired that

803
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,079
is because you know, the people thought they were smarter

804
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:19,440
than the rest of us, said, Oh, we need to

805
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:22,039
just jam people with climate change coverage instead of covering

806
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:23,800
murders and you know the fun stuff.

807
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you. I mean, we talked about this

808
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:28,159
a little time last time we talked.

809
00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:30,679
Speaker 2: But you know, look, I'm I spent all my day

810
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,079
thinking about you know, lofty, big things, Steve. You know,

811
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:37,119
I'm not like you down there in the gutter of

812
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,679
politics and policy. I'm you know, elevated here. But and

813
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,920
I sometimes I do wonder. And I know most of

814
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,239
the Ricochet listeners will roll their eyes at this because

815
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,440
they've made up their mind.

816
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,159
Speaker 4: About me years ago.

817
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,119
Speaker 2: But i'my thing like you know, MI, like I don't

818
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:50,760
want to get too soft here, like I don't want

819
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,679
to become in some kind of woke whatever. And I

820
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,480
was driving to the library the other day, and usually

821
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:01,119
I walk, but it was too cold, so I'm driving,

822
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,280
and I have too many books and I'm too old

823
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:09,960
to carry them. And I've heard an NPR report about

824
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:17,760
a healthcare some healthcare initiative, healthcare agency, not federal, but

825
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,760
it's a nonprofit about climate change. And that of course,

826
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,000
as you know, I don't know if you knew this, Steve,

827
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,360
but the climate change has a bigger effect on women

828
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,719
and minorities than anybody else. Your climate change is different

829
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,320
from somebody else's climate change. And I was ever thinking,

830
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,320
like what that's bananas? And as I pulled into library,

831
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,159
the interviewer said, well, you know, some people are going

832
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,639
to hear that. And I'm not saying I agree with them,

833
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,360
so we can hear that. I wonder how exactly that

834
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:55,239
affects doesn't affect all of us equally, And the person

835
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,320
had and I had to stop. I had to stop

836
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,360
park and I was there, but I had to listen

837
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,000
to this answer. And the answer was this weirdly contorted

838
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:07,800
thing that maybe if climate changes happen and you are

839
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,159
displaced due to climate change, which of course we've seen already,

840
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,480
And I was like, wait where I don't remember seeing that?

841
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:15,880
But you know, this woman insisted that there have been

842
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,199
great migrations because of climate change, that those women may

843
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,840
enter it to a new place that doesn't have the

844
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,800
same health access that they enjoyed from where they can

845
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:29,039
Like that is the most bizarre use case I've ever

846
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,599
heard of. Uh, But so I felt better about myself

847
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:34,280
with thought, Okay, well, if I can recognize that.

848
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: I know I'm still kind of sound philosophically.

849
00:40:39,079 --> 00:40:41,079
Speaker 2: But again, it's like it is one of those things where,

850
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:44,480
of course, now how many reporters are covering that beat,

851
00:40:44,679 --> 00:40:46,239
And if you're covering that beat, then you have to

852
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,960
be looking for a reason to be covering that beat.

853
00:40:48,639 --> 00:40:50,440
So it's going to be everything and then and then

854
00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:52,760
when when no one wants to read it, you get

855
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,719
mad at Jeff Bezos.

856
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:57,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been a real Gresham's law. You know, bad

857
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:01,480
money drives out good of environmental reporting generally. But I mean,

858
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:03,960
there are a few mainstream reporters whose work on climate

859
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:06,199
I have respected over the years, like Andy Revkin of

860
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,280
the New York Times, but he left the New York

861
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,239
Times a decade ago, and party was he did not

862
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,599
always tow the party line one hundred percent.

863
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,119
Speaker 1: And he's a big believer. I mean, he's not a

864
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:18,719
skeptic or you know. And that's what happens, and you're

865
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,519
left with a lot of hacks to do these crazy things.

866
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,639
I mean, you know, you talk about life imitating art.

867
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:26,960
You must know.

868
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: The old joke goes back to the eighties about how

869
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:31,039
the major papers would cover the end of the world

870
00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:34,000
coming tomorrow, you know, right, you know, the USA today

871
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:36,239
says world to end tomorrow, but we're grinning and bearing it.

872
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,800
The Wall Street Journal world end tomorrow, Markets to close

873
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:39,840
early see page A.

874
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: Nine for details.

875
00:41:41,519 --> 00:41:44,679
Speaker 3: The New York Times would be world to end tomorrow,

876
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,400
Women and Minority's hardest hit. And then the Wash the

877
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:52,159
Washington Post, who we're talking about now, would have said

878
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:53,000
world end tomorrow.

879
00:41:53,360 --> 00:42:00,159
Speaker 1: Reagan policies blamed. And now that's what we're reading. It's unbelievable, right, And.

880
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: It's like it's it's a funny thing because you ask

881
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,960
yourself of a wouldn't you if you're running a business

882
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,519
wouldn't I mean any business. Don't you look at the

883
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:13,880
people in that same sector who are doing well, Yeah,

884
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,960
and steal their ideas and do those things.

885
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 4: That is how you do it. That is like, I

886
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,519
don't know, you have to take a business. I didn't

887
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:20,800
go to business school, leave and I know that's how

888
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:21,119
you do it.

889
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: And you try to make french fries as the way

890
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,480
that McDonald's makes french fries because people seem to like

891
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,599
the McDonald's french fries and don't overthink it, don't grow

892
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,119
a brain. And the Washington Post the only had only

893
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,920
had really had there only three newspapers in New York

894
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,719
in the country that had circulation and kind of the heft,

895
00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:42,039
and that was the La Times, the Washington Post and

896
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:44,639
the New York Times. And of those three, only one

897
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,000
really exists and one is thriving. And the solution would

898
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,079
be just do.

899
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: That right right, Well, I mean the Murdock example again,

900
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,679
So in the Wall Street Journal has been profitable forever,

901
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,840
but you know it gives it fills on a big

902
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,960
important it is to reporting, right, yeah, exactly. And part

903
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,880
of that service, of course, is the editorial page. They've

904
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,719
always said back to the Robert Bartley days it's the

905
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,960
only editorial page in America that sells subscriptions, which was right.

906
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,320
And then Fox News of course was a stroke of genius,

907
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,880
hugely profitable. So you know, i'd always heard a New

908
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,480
York Post ran in the red and you think it's profitable.

909
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it is.

910
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't think it's profitable, but I mean,

911
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,920
I'm sure the New York Oh no, no, the New

912
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,719
York Post does run in the red, but a little bit.

913
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:38,599
But it's enough that you know, Dad likes it, right, Yeah, right, dad, Right,

914
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:40,239
when Dad goes, it'll probably.

915
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,119
Speaker 1: Go Yeah, it could be that's right. Well, we'll see.

916
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,880
And meanwhile, I'm very curious about Scott.

917
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:50,519
Speaker 3: Jennings on CNN, which you know, CNN's ratings are terrible,

918
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:52,960
but I'll bet if we actually got the you know,

919
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:54,599
hour by hour numbers. Maybe they're out there and I

920
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,360
just haven't looked, but I'll bet Scott Jennings is attracting

921
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,280
some viewers say oh, finally there's somebody on and it

922
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,360
was different from all the other cloned lefties.

923
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

924
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,679
Speaker 2: I think I think that like that could be. I

925
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,199
mean that the solution is has never not been to

926
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,960
In my opinion, the solution has never not been to, like,

927
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,840
have a bunch of voices. If you're gonna have voices,

928
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:22,119
have a bunch of them. That's how CNN was to

929
00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:24,840
begin with. They they had conservatives liberals yelling at each other.

930
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,599
That was a crossfire was they decided not to do

931
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,320
that for a while, and they you know, look, but

932
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,800
that look cable news rankings came out today, right, Number

933
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,119
one shows the five. Yeah, number two shows that is

934
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,760
Jesse Waters. Number three shows Gutfeld, And I know gut Feld, right,

935
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,519
I'm sure right now he's trying to convince them to

936
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:47,920
say that he's actually number two, not number three. That

937
00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:52,480
when Jesse Waters the movie Brett Baer, Right, Sean Hannity,

938
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:59,360
Laura Ingram, America reports that's number seven.

939
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: And I think.

940
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:05,079
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to think that that is the that's

941
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:05,679
a that's there.

942
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: That's what they call the box news every that's their

943
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:14,719
every weekday news. That's their standard news. Will Kine and

944
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:20,159
Martha McCallum, Yeah right, So, uh, what do they know

945
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:26,079
that you don't like? But right, the solution is so obvious, right,

946
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,920
it's but but they'll never do it right.

947
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:34,599
Speaker 3: One more entertainment question and then we're ready to get out.

948
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:36,719
I've got an exit question for you, But one more

949
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:37,519
entertainment question.

950
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,199
Speaker 1: Uh. I've been following the uh, the fight. Who's going

951
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:42,639
to acquire?

952
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 2: Is it?

953
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,599
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers? Netflix is going to buy it? And Paramounts

954
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,639
perished it in said no, we want to buy it.

955
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:48,760
And I don't know.

956
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,559
Speaker 3: I'm a cynic and thought maybe paramount was just trying

957
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:53,559
to make Netflix have to pay more and have to

958
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:55,679
pay cash just to punish them.

959
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: It seems like a bad idea to me, but what

960
00:45:58,039 --> 00:45:58,400
do I know.

961
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 2: It's a bad idea for either one of them. I

962
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,920
think it's the worst idea for Netflix.

963
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that.

964
00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: I think that strategy could have been correct, but flipped

965
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,719
Paramounts always wanted to buy it. I think Netflix came

966
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,920
in and offered nobody should buy it. These things are

967
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,480
too big. They need to be smaller. The system works

968
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:19,880
better when it's atomized, and unfortunately, everyone's gonna have to

969
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,239
learn that by losing a whole lot of money. And

970
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,920
the solution isn't to have the government step in, which

971
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,679
is I think they want any trust to come in,

972
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,679
which is stupid in the same way that government shouldn't

973
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:36,599
be subsidizing production at all. The California taxpayer shouldn't be

974
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:39,679
subsidizing the cost of a making a movie. All those

975
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,320
things that have to be worked out the proper way,

976
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,840
which is with a lot of pain and screaming. But

977
00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:47,480
that's the only way to solve certain problems, right right,

978
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:48,280
all right?

979
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,559
Speaker 3: Exit question not exactly personal, but it's a new semester

980
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:54,280
in new year. What are you reading, either for class

981
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,639
or on your own, just for your own edvocation. What's

982
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:57,559
what's got your attention.

983
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,679
Speaker 2: I don't do any reading that isn't related to my

984
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:01,920
because that's just time.

985
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:02,119
Speaker 1: You know.

986
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: I'm behind on the reading I have to do. But

987
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,480
I am reading the only two things I am reading.

988
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:11,480
They are interesting, that are kind of they're not directly assigned.

989
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:15,400
One is I'm finally getting through Dominion, Tom Hollands fantastic

990
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,760
book about sort of like a kind of a swooping

991
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,559
up and down look at the history of Christianity, which

992
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:25,840
is great and juicy, and he's a wonderful writer, so

993
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,159
it's great. And then I'm reading this Yale story in

994
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,599
Carlos Air, who wrote a wonderful called Reformations, which is

995
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:39,440
a nine hundred billion thousand pages long, which is but

996
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,440
he's a wonderful writer, so it's not dry history. It's great.

997
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,119
Speaker 4: But the one I'm reading right now is called They Flew.

998
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: And it's a story of he takes a historians look

999
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:53,840
at the accounts of the saints and he says, if

1000
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:59,239
you have, you know, for our historical accuracy criteria, it's

1001
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:05,360
you know, multiple multiple accounts that are spread out and

1002
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:08,440
then a multiple unique accounts like why would no one

1003
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,760
would make this up unless it was true? And it's

1004
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,480
hard to say, it's hard to understand how a bunch

1005
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:18,320
of people in different places at different times, who didn't

1006
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,320
know each other would have the same account of some

1007
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:24,800
bananas things some saint did like fly right, And he's like, well,

1008
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,079
you just have to be He.

1009
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 4: Doesn't go as far.

1010
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:29,119
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not finished it yet, but he's a

1011
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:31,880
wonderful writer. So it's a great and I actually think

1012
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,480
that that is something on the horizon, the new kind.

1013
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,079
Speaker 4: Of area of.

1014
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:41,199
Speaker 2: Theological historical inquiry, which is, okay, well, what if what

1015
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:46,599
if the world is a lot weirder than we think

1016
00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:49,800
it is? And whether we whether we agree it is

1017
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,639
or we don't agree with it. It's a fascinating thought experiment.

1018
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:53,800
So I recommend that book.

1019
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think Peter Robinson brought up that

1020
00:48:56,559 --> 00:48:59,440
title some weeks ago. I think it's the episode when

1021
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,880
we had Charles Marion to talk about his taking religion

1022
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,639
seriously book. If I recall that I've got the Tom

1023
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,599
Holland book on my ridiculously long reading pile or tall

1024
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:08,440
reading pile.

1025
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,199
Speaker 1: That yeah, I never quite get through. But yeah, it

1026
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:10,960
looks really good.

1027
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: It's good as juicy, and it's like you can kind

1028
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,079
of you could kind of flip through it. I mean, right,

1029
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,159
I don't don't say that, but there are sections that

1030
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,119
I want to read, you know, the.

1031
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: Benedictine rules section. I have a I have a I

1032
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:26,760
actually got to put the list together.

1033
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,639
Speaker 3: Books that are like that where you could just turn

1034
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:31,199
to almost any page and the writing is so good

1035
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,480
and so well constructed that you just enjoy it even

1036
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:36,039
if you haven't done all the stuff before it. And

1037
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:38,000
you know, that's very few books, but I have a

1038
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:40,760
few that most of them are older people don't write

1039
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,800
in that style anymore. Holland is an exception, but well.

1040
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: All right, uh, well, the listeners, as the old car

1041
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,119
Talk guys have said, you've just wasted another perfectly good

1042
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:51,159
hour listening to me and Rob.

1043
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is fun. We should do more often, of course.

1044
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I want James to get well yeah, right, yeah,

1045
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,840
I wouldn't want him to be you know, but it's

1046
00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,800
kind of fun, right.

1047
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: And Charlie Cook has had an on fire Twitter game

1048
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:05,320
this week. He's got a good Twitter game anyway, but yeah,

1049
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:08,119
he's really been firing left and right on all cylinders

1050
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:10,920
in any case. This podcast was brought to you by

1051
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,320
fabric Please support them for supporting us and join Ricochet

1052
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,119
to become a member of the best site for civil center,

1053
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,239
Right Conversation. As always, please take a minute to leave

1054
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,440
a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews bring

1055
00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:27,760
us more listeners and that helps to keep the show

1056
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,960
growing and helps to keep us amused as well.

1057
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: So we'll see you in the comments. Everyone. Great to

1058
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:33,960
see Rob, hope to see you again soon.

1059
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 4: See you soon, Ricochet.

1060
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Join the Conversation