WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:14.759 Hey, everybody, Welcome to a new episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. 2 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.359 Is a little bit different. Today we have Mick Molroy, 3 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.760 Mark poly Moreopolis, Jason Lyons, and myself. We are completely 4 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.559 in one hundred percent CIA funded. Go to CIA dot 5 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.359 gov if you want to join, uh I will send 6 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:35.840 me a check. So today's show is a little bit different. 7 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.439 We usually talk about like turn events, what's going on 8 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:40.560 in the world, and stuff like that. Obviously a lot 9 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.679 is still going on this today. I wanted to do 10 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:48.119 something different where it's more I guess if a thought exercise, 11 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:50.640 I mean more or less. I'm sure there are people 12 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:52.799 thinking of it right now due to like the fact 13 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:59.159 that authoritarianism is rising across the world. The basic question 14 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.320 of this show is to be what happens if America 15 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.359 American democracies are basically a shell of itself, there's an 16 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:10.799 authoritarian regime in power. What would allied and enemy intelligence 17 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:15.400 agencies be doing in America in terms of operations that 18 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:17.599 you see them working on. You know, we see China 19 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:22.719 and Russia doing stuff now obviously, but I want you 20 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.920 to picture five, ten, fifteen years from now, there's an 21 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.239 authoritarian regime and like places like Canada or the other 22 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.680 five Eyes NATO intelligence agencies, what would they be doing 23 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.239 in America in terms of operations. So I figured have 24 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:41.439 the CIA guys on they would have a good understanding 25 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:41.640 of that. 26 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:44.239 So here we are. 27 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:49.079 I'm here with the experts, and you know, Mick mansioned 28 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.120 before we started recording about like, you know, talking about 29 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:54.560 the rise of authoritarianism in the world. I mean, it's 30 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:58.319 obviously rising as clear as day. There's statistics behind it. 31 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:02.560 So thank you guys for being here year and Mick, 32 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:04.879 you want to talk about the rise of authoritarianism in 33 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:05.200 the world. 34 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:09.159 That's going on, sure, And this is something we talk 35 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:12.479 a lot about on the stoicism side. It's kind of 36 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:14.840 a long history of Stoic's plicih and get back against 37 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:19.639 tyranny and autocracies. So I'm familiar with the statistics, but 38 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.360 I want to make sure I get it right. So 39 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:24.719 according to Freedom House World twenty twenty five reports, sixty 40 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:29.960 countries experienced clines and political rights and civil liberties. That 41 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:33.000 means forty percent of the world's population saw a decline 42 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:40.439 in their freedoms. There's now ninety one autocracies in the world, 43 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:45.280 only eighty eight democracies and the arrest are somewhere in 44 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.680 the middle. That's the worst it's been in twenty years. 45 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.319 And up to sixty five to seventy percent of the 46 00:02:52.319 --> 00:03:02.360 world's population lives in an autocracy. What else that's key here? 47 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.479 Yeah, there was an interesting graph I saw, So. 48 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:11.120 This last one I just throw out there. This is 49 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:18.120 the nineteen consecutive year of worldwide civil liberties becoming less 50 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.680 for the people of the world, nineteen consecutive views. So 51 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:23.879 the reason why I'm pointing this out is obviously to 52 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.039 alarm people that we're going in the raw direction worldwide, 53 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.800 but also to point out that it's not some crazy idea. 54 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:33.759 I personally don't think we'll ever get to an authoritious 55 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.080 Straitan state in the United States. Happy to have people 56 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.199 disagree with me on that, So I'm not saying this 57 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.520 guy's falling. But I'm also I'm not blind, and I 58 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.800 don't think anybody should be blind to the fact that 59 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:48.439 the idea of ahuotocracies around the world are becoming more 60 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:52.759 prevalent and essentially view themselves in some kind of alliance 61 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.560 against us, the democracies of the world, And I think 62 00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:00.159 the United States should always and his the beacon of 63 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.840 freedom and actually the leader of the free world. So 64 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.280 I would start with that, throw it over to you guys. 65 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.800 But I thought it was important to point out that 66 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.719 this is in some you know, ridiculous notion that there's 67 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.960 an issue with freedom around the world and it could 68 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.839 affect the United States. 69 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:19.920 Mark. 70 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.600 So, you know, I think mixed right in the sense of, 71 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.279 you know, in this in twenty twenty five, we should 72 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.680 not do things that I used to do. When people 73 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:30.680 like do you call and say, hey, you want to 74 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.240 talk about this, I'd be like, that's crazy. 75 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:33.920 I don't do that anymore. 76 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.079 I mean, you know, so so everything that you say 77 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.600 that cannot happen, like masked federal agents snatching people off 78 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.759 the streets without any due process, violating everything that policing 79 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.920 is all about. I mean, I've talked to I've worked with, 80 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.399 you know, police departments all the time, and they are 81 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.839 instructing their recruits, They're instructing their officers that if you 82 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.279 do what ICE and CBP are doing, you will go 83 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.079 to jail, you'll be fired. So there is you know, 84 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.800 we see this every day in terms of elements of 85 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:04.839 autocracy and fascism. It's horrifying to me because I lived 86 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.759 in these places around the world. So I think that 87 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.759 it's okay to talk about this even if you know, 88 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.240 I agree with Mick it's unlikely, but it doesn't mean 89 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.240 it's not impossible. And you know, and you know, the 90 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:18.759 other part of it is that, you know, for those 91 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.879 of us who served overseas, you know, America meant something. 92 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.759 You know, I'll never forget. And I think I sent 93 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:27.560 you all a piece I recently did about living in 94 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.439 Damascus and walking to the embassy at night and seeing 95 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:32.199 the silhouette of the American flag, and that it really 96 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:34.639 meant something to this to the members of a small 97 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.639 embassy staff, but also to the Syrian people, because America 98 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:41.160 stood for economic you know, liberalism and political freedoms. 99 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:42.160 And I think that's a question. 100 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.680 Now, you know, there is a slow, you know, march 101 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.839 towards authoritarianism here. It's a president who believes in this 102 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:54.279 kind of unitary executive power. Again, what what you see 103 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.079 kind of the you know, the military on the streets. 104 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:57.879 I mean, you know, I don't want to be hyperbolic 105 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.240 and say we're there, because we're not, but it's worth 106 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.879 having this discussion. And then you know, there's certainly things 107 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:05.720 though in our past. I mean, one thing I'd say 108 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.360 day is that you know, we all did this for 109 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:11.920 the CIA, maybe not so successfully so, but we certainly 110 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:17.399 gave it a shot sometimes. But you know, there's a 111 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.720 lot we can offer in terms of you know, what 112 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.279 are both our allies and our adversaries would be doing. 113 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.879 And I think just to maybe start the conversation is 114 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.480 to note that you know what you would do as 115 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.199 former case officers here is that you would look for 116 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.079 recruitment targets and what you have right now in the 117 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:36.160 United States, and you would have if it went to 118 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.360 a kind of full autocracy, is an enormous number of 119 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:43.120 very disaffected individuals in the hundreds, if not thousands, with 120 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.600 top secret clearances. So we would have a right pool 121 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.439 of recruitments who are both our friends and our adversaries 122 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.079 would probably look to recruit. And finally, one other thing, 123 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:53.800 I'm just going to tell you, I'm wearing this T 124 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:57.040 shirt today, the Team House T shirt. As you know, 125 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.839 I am a total podcast or if you send me bling, 126 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:01.079 I will come on your show. 127 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.199 You've done that. You also promised me me a mug. 128 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.600 I'm waiting for that great to be with everyone again 129 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:09.839 and Jason too, buddy. 130 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:12.800 Mugs mugs en route. Don't worry, Okay, settle down, that's 131 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:14.720 coming the payments in the Mountain. 132 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:17.600 I get recruited by anybody to give me blame. 133 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:18.839 Yeah, you're easy. 134 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:20.399 Notes are being taken. 135 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.199 Yeah you hear that. China just sat over some stuff 136 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:29.120 and awesome, Jay, what do you think? What do you 137 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:29.680 take from this? 138 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.120 So when you first put it out about doing this, 139 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.920 I my first thought was I don't have the the 140 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.160 years and years of experience that Mark and Mick do, 141 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.839 but I do have some experience. So I tried to 142 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:45.839 look at it, put myself in the shoes, back in 143 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:48.079 the shoes of myself as a junior officer, Like, what 144 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.800 would my boss be telling me to do if I 145 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.279 was in the United States from a you know, a 146 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:58.040 foreign intelligence services and all of this has happened, what 147 00:07:58.079 --> 00:07:59.959 would they you know, what would they task me to do? 148 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:00.720 Uh? 149 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.720 And then also I was able to pull on I 150 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.000 have a little bit of liaison experience, so I think 151 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:09.120 that would be very important as well. So I would 152 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.839 be along with reaching out to my my contacts and 153 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.879 my assets, I would also be trying to work my 154 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:21.959 my liaison contacts as well to see what they're their 155 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.959 feelings are on what's happening in their country, and you know, 156 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.040 they're uh, they have the pulse. So those are the 157 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.040 kind of things that I was thinking about leading up this. 158 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:32.679 But I agree with both of them that I don't 159 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:34.840 think we're there yet, but I think all of the 160 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:37.320 pieces are in place, and all the signs are showing 161 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.480 that we're, you know, running towards that we're taking the 162 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.879 baby steps towards at UH. And it's very It's concerning 163 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.840 because I also looked at as a father, you know, 164 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:50.840 and a grandfather, what is going What is my my 165 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.480 children and my grandchildren's future gonna look like if things 166 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:55.360 keep going like this. 167 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.519 If you look at this like a like as a competition, 168 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:03.120 if you will, between an autocratic system and in ours 169 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.120 democratic system, they have a lot of advantages right when 170 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.320 it comes to this kind of covert type warfare. We 171 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:13.200 have a lot of freedoms and they can exploit that. 172 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.159 We have a lot of civil liberties. I wouldn't want 173 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:17.879 to give any of these up. I'm just looking at 174 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:24.679 it purely intel perspective that they can they have freedom 175 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.360 of movement, they have the ability to jump on social media, 176 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.399 which is pretty much unrestricted in the United States. Are 177 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.240 completely unrestricted, I should say. Now, whereas if we're trying 178 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.840 to affect an autocratic system, as intelligence officers like Russia 179 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.919 or you name your autocracy, they're very controlled, right, They 180 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:49.919 block social media, they block access. They I mean, especially 181 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.000 people in the agency who worked hard target countries. They 182 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:57.559 track every movement. It's it's not an equal playing field. 183 00:09:57.559 --> 00:09:59.159 But I wouldn't want it to be, because that means 184 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.759 that we be reducing our own, uh, you know, civil 185 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.519 liberties here in the United States, which I think every 186 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:09.120 American should fight for, regardless of whether you're on the 187 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.519 right or the left or center right. But from the 188 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:17.840 intel perspective, it is a challenge to affect an autocratic 189 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.159 society because of the restrictions they put on their own people, 190 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:28.320 let alone foreign uh folks that are there either a 191 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.559 diplomatic mission or or other they have they have a 192 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.159 lot of control over us here. You know, I mean, 193 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.320 how many if you look back at the statistics during elections, 194 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.960 how many of the Facebook accounts or Twitter now x 195 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.679 accounts are completely fabricated, right, They're they're they're not even 196 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:51.039 they don't even exist. All I do is promote conspiracy 197 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:56.879 theories against one American group against another American group, much 198 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.879 of which is untrue. Probably the entire Q and I 199 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:04.960 conspiracy theories fabricated by an intelligence organization. I don't know 200 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.840 that for a fact, but it's it's a lot of 201 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:12.320 that stuff is either manufactured by a floor intelligence service 202 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.759 or amplified by intelligence service. So you know, they say, 203 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:21.159 say it was a real conspiracy theory that was out 204 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.840 there by some you know, disenfranchised person. The fact that 205 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:29.399 you see fifty thousand people agreeing with it, you might 206 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:32.720 think that it's legitimate, because I mean, why would when 207 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.799 in fact all the fifty thousand of those people were 208 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.639 generated faith accounts. 209 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:38.840 Right. 210 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:40.440 So there's a lot of things they can do to 211 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:45.840 exploit the United States system of freedom against ourselves and 212 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.759 get us to start fighting against each other that we 213 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.200 simply can't do in place like child because they have, 214 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.279 you know, complete control over the spread of information or 215 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:59.240 disinformation on our social media sites interweens. 216 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:02.159 And we saw this happen. 217 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:04.080 Of course, if you look at the indictments after the 218 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:07.320 Russian interference in twenty sixteen, the Russians actually, you know, 219 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.639 the Russian intelligence service sent individuals to the US to 220 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:14.519 set up, you know, fake accounts on social media, and 221 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:16.480 they were trying to exacerbate, you know, kind of the 222 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:18.639 hot button political issues in the United States, whether it 223 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.120 was Second Amendment issues, or abortion or black lives matters. 224 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.519 I mean, this is in the indictments. We have indicted 225 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.799 Russian intelligence officers who did this because it's easy pickings here. Again, 226 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:30.919 it's a free and open society. It's not difficult. But 227 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.000 going back to what I what I said before, you know, 228 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:35.519 I thought about I thought about this actually when there 229 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.519 was kind of these rumored purges at the FBI several 230 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:40.960 months ago. That that and the FBI fired a lot 231 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.960 of people and a lot of people retired, but it 232 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.720 wasn't as whole scale because at one point they said 233 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:49.240 they're going to get rid of several thousand FBI agents, 234 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.240 anyone who touched the Russian investigation. And you know, the 235 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:55.840 stupidity of that is is multifaceted. First of all, it's 236 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.000 ridiculous FBI agents got assigned cases. It's not their you know, 237 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.480 prerogative what they were and don't work on. But do 238 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.080 you really want to fire three thousand people, all of 239 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:05.960 them who are armed with a side arm and a 240 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.639 shotgun and have a vehicle. I mean just talking about 241 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.600 like you know, fundamental things. And by the way, they 242 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:13.399 also all have mortgages. They're sending their kids to schools, 243 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:15.320 and they got to pay for health care. And so 244 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:17.960 you know, when if our country kind of moves down 245 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.039 that line again towards autocracy and assuming of course, and 246 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.279 this is going to maybe more scary thing is that 247 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.240 not everybody goes along with it. And I think the 248 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.000 results last Tuesdays show that that's that's not the case. 249 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.159 You know, there was some kind of hope for democracy, 250 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:35.559 I think, but but ultimately what you have is a 251 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:40.759 huge pool of potential recruits. Again who you know and 252 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.000 and you know there are friends of mine who were 253 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.000 working in national security who were when they're kind of 254 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.360 these the big reductions in force were taking place, and 255 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.000 I think more are coming. But they said they were 256 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.080 getting hit up on LinkedIn by a consulting firm from 257 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.159 the Emirates or Singapore. Now clearly it's the Chinese or 258 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:58.639 the Iranians of the Russians, and they're not going to 259 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.000 say that it will be a commercial recruit. But you know, 260 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.519 why would someone and by the way, these people knew 261 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.480 what it was. But if you're desperate and have no 262 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.360 you know, you have got to pay a mortgage and 263 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.320 you have no health care, you're going to take those offers. 264 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.000 And so I think foreign intelligence services. And I'll get 265 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:14.879 this wrong. I was not in the military. You guys were. 266 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:16.679 But I don't know if it's called operational prep of 267 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.679 the environment. I always throw in these acronyms that I 268 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:21.039 learned from like Mick and Jason to sound really good 269 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.399 on TV. I'm freaking wrong all the time. Someone who 270 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:25.360 let me know that's really not what operational prep of 271 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:25.919 the environment is. 272 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:26.639 I was like, I don't care. 273 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.679 It sounded good, But ultimately the operational prep of the 274 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:33.000 environment in theory would be intelligence service would try to 275 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.600 recruit disaffected individuals in the United States. And I think 276 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.360 that as and I think that's probably the case now. 277 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:41.559 The other thing, too, is because by the way, the 278 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.879 FBI has decided counterintelligence isn't as important. I mean, I 279 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.759 just I gave a talk at Georgetown Law School a 280 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.759 couple of weeks ago, and someone there had a relative 281 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:52.919 in the FBI who said, yeah, they've been running around 282 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.879 doing immigration rates and cash Mattel, the FBI directors said 283 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:57.799 they're going to pull people off a CI because you 284 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.960 know it's you know, let alone out dropping a college 285 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.720 requirement to join the FBI. But ultimately, I think our 286 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:07.279 CI defenses are down, and then you're gonna have disaffected 287 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.399 people and as we if we kind of continue on 288 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.919 this march, our adversaries will have a pretty easy time. 289 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.279 Scooping people up. Which would be the first step. 290 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.080 I mean, what you do in any kind of like 291 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:19.759 you know, Jason or Mick or myself couldn't have ever 292 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:24.120 operated in places fomenting insurrection or trying to do regime 293 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.600 change if you don't have sources to do so. So 294 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.480 I think the first thing would be kind of you know, 295 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.200 agent operations to get people in line, in place, And 296 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.600 just one quick thing. Remember why the Russians failed so 297 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.360 spectacularly in Ukraine because the FSB, which was the Russian 298 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.559 entity that was tasked to go into Ukraine, actually told 299 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.879 Vladimir Putin yet, we have everything prepped. 300 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:44.399 But it was all bullshit. 301 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.519 It was all you know, they basically on paper recruiting people, 302 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.360 we are stealing all the money. So they didn't do 303 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.440 that fundamental piece, which is recruiting people on the ground. 304 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.919 I think something else to think about too, that mark 305 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:02.559 you mentioned environment to consider it too is think about 306 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.320 where we live physically, where we live, the diverse environment 307 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.960 that we live in. It's not hard for a Russian 308 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.200 or a Chinese intelligence officer to either come over here 309 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:17.799 or already be here and just blend into the environment, 310 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:21.600 join these groups. Black lives matter, whatever it is to 311 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:28.159 start fomenting dissent as well as pick out recruitment targets 312 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.120 like I myself, like if I went over to Russia, 313 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.120 you know, just as a as a black man, as 314 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.039 you know, I automatically be pegged as something. And then 315 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.919 when i'm you know, it's determined that I'm an American, 316 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.440 I'm automatic then double you know the problems. So depending 317 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.639 on the cover that that intelligence officer come is here 318 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.799 in the United States under, if it's official, then maybe 319 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.840 you know, they might you know, catch a tail, although 320 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:58.159 today we don't know that that's absolutely true or not. 321 00:16:58.639 --> 00:16:59.320 But if they're here. 322 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.039 Under unofficial, non official cover, that you know, they could 323 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.359 disappear into the you know, the pond of fish and 324 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:07.839 do whatever it is they got to do. 325 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:10.359 So the next step and let me throw this the 326 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.519 question to Mike. Sorry, d I'm taken over it always. 327 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.480 I was like the producer. 328 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:20.960 But for Mick, as you live out in a place 329 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.079 where like everyone has like Arsenal's buried underground in their backyard, 330 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:26.680 you know that there is a you know what? Okay, 331 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.519 so let's go back into our old world, right, your 332 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.559 agents on the ground, Well, what do you then need 333 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:34.000 to do? You need to bring in things such as explosives, weapons, 334 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.000 things to provide a a surrogate force. Well, just what 335 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:43.279 you have in America an incredible preponderance of weapons everybody's arms. 336 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.039 So a foreign country would not foreign intelligence service would 337 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.680 not even have to worry about smuggling anything in if 338 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.839 they wanted to, you know, mess up the United States 339 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:52.480 on this, Nick, what are your thoughts as you live 340 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:54.200 out in the land of Yah. 341 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.480 You're then four me and just to highlight that, and 342 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:05.079 I'm a weapons owner, but me and their my business partner, 343 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.480 were doing a documentary where you're traveling around and a 344 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.599 family friend of his on the farm and were you 345 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.200 win And we're talking to him and the guy told 346 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:19.359 us he had fifty thousand rounds may in Ish like 347 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:24.039 what I mean, Just to emphasize the point. Yes, everybody's 348 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.960 armed in Montana. It is true, so you know, not 349 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.039 to get into a secondment question, but it would make 350 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:35.599 invading the United States like an impossibility. But to your point, Mark, 351 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.720 it also means that if you were trying to plant, 352 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.160 you know, cachets that you could be used to send 353 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.640 in teams like their version of Special Operations or paramilitary 354 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.000 teams to start things in the United States. It would 355 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.400 be easy, right, you can because it's not just going 356 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.079 to a gun show and all that stuff you can 357 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:58.119 buy from individuals. You could have basically facilitators assets that 358 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.319 you pay to purchase that are legally able to purchase 359 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.359 weapons to collect all this stuff. So whether it was 360 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.640 a nation state that's looking to cause issues or a 361 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.839 terrorist organization, that would make more sense, right because they're 362 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.319 okay with getting caught and they're okay with that, you know, 363 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.400 it's not an issue of creating the Third World War. 364 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.240 It would be We obviously have a lot of access 365 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.599 to weapons, it's part of the freedoms in the United States, 366 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.559 but it is a vulnerability. So we should always consider that. 367 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.240 And since we have, you know, three of us that 368 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.680 we're in the agency questions I get sometimes, although I 369 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.960 don't know why it's still persist, but it'd be good. 370 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.680 I think it's a good idea to bring this up. 371 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.119 There is no deep state. I don't know. I don't 372 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.480 know where people think this comes from. I'll have you 373 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:52.119 guys weigh in. But my experience, generally speaking, in the agency, 374 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.119 which is probably the which is the most convertive the 375 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.759 departments and agencies of US government, they're just average folks. 376 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.839 They have the gamut of right, left and center. I've 377 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:08.400 never seen anybody promoting their own political agenda through their 378 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:13.799 actions in the agency. It's basically a bunch of Americans 379 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:15.720 are just trying to do the best for their country. 380 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:19.599 And so this constant idea that there's this group of people, 381 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.400 whether they're on the right or left or what have you, 382 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.400 that are obsessed with their own politics is one hundred 383 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.519 and eighty degrees out. It's just not the case. And 384 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.160 folks that think that there should be purges because because 385 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:39.000 they disagree with you politically are just I think, patently wrong. 386 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:42.799 And I hope we can at least in that concept. 387 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.920 That would be the first step in handing these type 388 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:53.799 of disenfranchisment, this othering of federal workers and all that. 389 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:56.319 It's just simply not the case. There's just as many, 390 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.160 especially in the agencies, Republicans that are all Democrats, I 391 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.640 would guess, maybe even more independence than any other group. 392 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.279 But they certainly don't wear their politics on their sleeve, 393 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.000 and they don't uh conform their actions to any kind 394 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:13.240 of politicals. 395 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:16.640 Don't you remember we go to the cafeteria to be 396 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:18.839 people like with nose rings and blue hair, and they'd 397 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:20.440 be kind of cramping out the grateful dead. 398 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.400 Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, yeah, it's going on, and you know, 399 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:26.920 it's a. 400 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:29.960 Yeah. 401 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.599 I don't know if you guys have the same experience, 402 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.440 but I think it's important, uh that people that might 403 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.680 not have that any knowledge of the agency or FBI 404 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:43.720 for that matter, here about what people are like inside 405 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.559 the agency, because you already mentioned them. Mark, They take 406 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.519 their kids to soccer games, they drive me. Yeah, they do. 407 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.400 They do really cool work. I mean, it's it's one 408 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:54.759 of the coolest jobs you could have. But it is 409 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.640 not some you know, cabal of the smoking man sitting 410 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.400 in a dark room trying to fit you're out how 411 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.880 to manipulate maybe other countries, but certainly not our own. M. 412 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.640 I mean, look, I didn't know anyone's political ideology. I 413 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:11.799 mean those of us who have come out afterwards in 414 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:13.880 the prime, you know, in our private lives. I certainly 415 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.079 you can sometimes hear people's political ideologies. I never heard 416 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.319 it talked about at work. Of course, you're in a 417 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.279 skip the whole time, a secure facility, and you know, 418 00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.319 we didn't pay attention to tweets or politics. And frankly 419 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:26.799 you were just a sharpy you know, sharp tool of 420 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.119 the US government. And so you know, I agree with 421 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.119 you totally. It's also a very I mean, ultimately, they're 422 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.240 a pretty conservative institution. You know, the idea that that 423 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:37.319 that cio FBI is the deep state. I joke my 424 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.200 FBI friends like they wear suits like a. 425 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:40.359 Coat and tie on the weekend. 426 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.599 Again, they're not They're not out there, you know, uh uh, 427 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.359 you know, popping gummy bears or or listen to Grateful 428 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.319 Dead all the time. I mean, it's just I find 429 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.880 it preposterous. But that's certainly that narrative is is is 430 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.279 very much out there, and you know, uh uh, it's 431 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.279 something that I think that the you know, obviously it 432 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.279 still has a lot of weight in certain political you 433 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:07.000 know groups in the United States. I mean, the MAGA 434 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.960 world really does believe in this, and it's almost impossible. 435 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.000 To get rid of. 436 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.440 But they are now the Deep State quote unquote, right, 437 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.319 they're running the show. 438 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.640 So it's like Cash Betel's flying around on his G 439 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.000 five after he used to criticize others for flying around 440 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.799 on the G five. I mean, you know, once you 441 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.839 become the man, you're the man. Uh so, but no, 442 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.359 but Nick, I think it's a good good that you 443 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.160 bring that up, and it's important and you know, and 444 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.960 having this kind of intellectual discussion is certainly let's just 445 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.240 caveat this massively, like we're not advocating this. 446 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.440 Right right, obviously work against the. 447 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:41.519 United States, but I think it is interesting to see 448 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.319 how especially our allies do and and you know, one 449 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:46.759 maybe just to take this in another direction a little bit, 450 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.000 is that I've had this kind of unofficial project as 451 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.519 I've gone around. I was just in Sweden talking to 452 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:55.039 three former chiefs or deputy chiefs of Allied services, and 453 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.480 just the notion is, as the US kind of moves towards, 454 00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:59.920 uh you know, away from kind of the democratic norms, 455 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:04.119 are our allies going to start restricting intelligence from US 456 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:06.359 on certain issues, and when it comes to Russia, that's 457 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.599 behind the scenes that they are. It's not going to 458 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.920 be uncounters and we're kount of proliferation or other things, 459 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.319 but on Russia where there's just such a distrust in 460 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.200 the United States, so our allies are withholding and I 461 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.680 think that's something that is pretty dangerous. It's pretty scary 462 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.359 because you know, as Jason, as you noted, you ran 463 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:23.960 liaison operations for a while. Like liaison is you know, 464 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.799 the sexy stuff of unilateral agent running is really fun, 465 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.640 but liaison is just as important, and they can still 466 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.200 help us catch spies and learn about you know, China 467 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.960 and Iran and uncovered proliferation networks, and there's a skill 468 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:37.759 in doing that too. 469 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:43.799 So is it's safe to assume authoritarian regime that happens 470 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:48.400 in America fictionally, you know, hypothetically years down the road, 471 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.160 that our enemies will be doing more or less, probably 472 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.799 a little bit more like brazenly and outworthly doing what 473 00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:57.559 they're doing now. 474 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:02.359 I don't see what wouldn't I mean if, if, especially 475 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:09.599 if that authoritarian regime is openly or even dog whistling 476 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.240 support for what they're doing. I don't see why they 477 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.359 wouldn't do it more brazenly. 478 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.720 The friends there's you know what we read buys friends 479 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:21.680 on friends policy, and that that goes away. I would 480 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.440 imagine friends on friends meeting you don't spy, are working 481 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.160 against your allies. But once an allied country, let's say 482 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.640 in Europe, sees the United States go down a certain path, 483 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.319 you know, all that kind of goes away. And and 484 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:33.920 by the way, and Nick, this is gonna goes You're 485 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:35.599 gonna you're gonna love this piece too, because I know 486 00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.759 you know this is true. Like think about and this, 487 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.160 you know, think about what the British did running around 488 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:43.480 in New England and Boston, British intelligence recruiting, you know, 489 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.359 penetrations with the IRA. They did this for years and 490 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.119 years under the nose of the FBI. And so it's 491 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.240 not like our our you know, our our foreign even 492 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:54.160 some of our our and friends haven't done this. 493 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:58.160 I have to throw a little Irish in them. 494 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:04.319 Yeah, make sure thing and come back in. Yeah, refresh 495 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.160 your thing and come back in. Because I think it 496 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:09.359 said stop recording. But we'll have respond to that one, 497 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:14.319 because that was fucking good. Mick is an Irish like 498 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.440 a Irish supremacist. 499 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:18.960 That's why it was so easy. You know, I want 500 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.759 my talking points. 501 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.160 So what was that about the Irish? 502 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.079 This question is for Mick. No, it's the notion of 503 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.759 not questions. It's just the idea of you know, sometimes 504 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.880 friends or allies spying on us, spying in our country. 505 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:39.480 And my notion was, you know, if the US go 506 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:41.200 is kind of down the road towards photocracy, you're going 507 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.759 to see our allies not respect that friends on friends anymore. 508 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:44.200 But I might. 509 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:47.000 My just comment was, well sometimes they don't anyway, because 510 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.160 you saw a British intelligence who drive the FBI crazy 511 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:52.359 because they'd run around Boston all the time. They're trying 512 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:55.680 to recruit penetrations of the Iran. So they had already 513 00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.039 operated in the US. And you know anything you know 514 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:02.440 mentioning the Irish. Oh we mentioned on this, so there 515 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:02.599 you go. 516 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.279 Yeah, the old Black Rose have been there many times. 517 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.640 Not to get them focused on. But I mean, if 518 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.640 I don't think we are going to be an autocracy, 519 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.200 but if we were, our alliances would also shift right. 520 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:19.279 Photographies tend to support autocracies, democracies democracies, so our adversaries, 521 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:22.160 at least what we have traditionally put as our most 522 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:27.880 significant competitors are China and Russia. Right, so autocracies and 523 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:30.960 are on in North Korea the kind of the rogue states. 524 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.839 So that would shift, I would imagine if you. But 525 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.680 we're not because let's let's talk about that. For we 526 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.319 have a system that would make it extraordinarily difficult for 527 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.240 that to happen. Right, we don't have Contrary to some 528 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.400 people who love to talk about this unitary executive theory, 529 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:51.640 that's not the way the systems set up. It's actually 530 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.359 set up the contrary to that. Separations of powers Article 531 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.160 one's Congress Article two is the sector branch on our 532 00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.160 three is a judiciary brand. They're all set up to 533 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.799 never get to a point where we have the power, 534 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:06.920 all the power in one branching government. But I know 535 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.799 a thought experiment. So in the case that we were, 536 00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.680 we served that way. And remember a lot of autocracies 537 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.400 started as democracies and then the people who were elected 538 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.400 simply got rid of all the rights in freedoms that 539 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:26.000 fall under democracy and shifted. But if we did, for 540 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.519 this thought experience, our alliances would be different. We would 541 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:35.559 be essentially more concerned about freedoms around the world spreading 542 00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:39.640 to the United States, right, so we would be more 543 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:44.839 prone to be attached to the authoritarian states. And I 544 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:49.039 just don't think that'll ever happen. Our country has essentially 545 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.279 established this place in the world as being opposed to tyranny, 546 00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:57.799 right from the very inception, to fighting for the freedom 547 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.759 of all individuals to be citizens in the Civil War, 548 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:09.119 to defeating Nazism in Europe, defeating imperial Japanese in Asia, 549 00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:12.759 to winning the Cold War. Right, this is what makes 550 00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:17.640 America America. And it's all indirect opposition to autocracy. 551 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.599 So mick On, I mean, obviously we have an administration 552 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:23.200 that every once in a while shows a little bit 553 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:27.279 of an affinity towards Russia. That right now, the Hungarian president, 554 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.279 who is kind of the the epitome of the autocratic 555 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.119 experiment in Europe, he was just in Washington, and so 556 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.680 I think people are worrying about that is that, you know, 557 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:38.759 that's why you know, my friends in Europe are having 558 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.160 kind of a collective freak out because you know, we 559 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.680 shouldn't be siding with Russia on Ukraine. Now, you know, 560 00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:46.839 I think Trump actually wakes up and changes his mind 561 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.680 every day, So maybe that's maybe it's not ideological, but 562 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.200 I think there's enough out there where you where you 563 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.680 could question some of the kind of the historic American 564 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.359 American commitment to you know, political and economic freedom and liberalism, 565 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.039 liberalism meaning just freedom. And so that's what that worry. 566 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.240 I mean, you know, he talks openly praises his president, 567 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.160 she of China. He's you know, Vladimir Putin was his 568 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.079 buddy until recently when he's not. So I think there's 569 00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.000 there's enough worry that kind of those the foundational principles 570 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.400 that we all work for are are creaking a little 571 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.440 bit now. I would I would hope that that we 572 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.000 do have this separation of powers. But Congress has been 573 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.839 totally impotent. I mean, the Republican Party has turned into sorry, 574 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.759 d I'm going to get us some trouble here. You 575 00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.759 guys don't have to gree with me. If anyway, don't worry. 576 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.000 I mean, so it's a cult that follows kind of 577 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.079 Trump on everything when they shouldn't. They should be pushing 578 00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.920 back and and you know, and that's what I would 579 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.559 want to see, that there's a separation of powers. I 580 00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:42.079 don't see that right now. Now, it's not institutional because 581 00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:43.680 it still exists. But I do worry. 582 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.200 So I totally going to push it back against Russia 583 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:51.960 and Hungary. I mean, Hungary is essentially become uh an 584 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.759 embarrassment to the EU and NATO, you know. I mean 585 00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:56.200 to the point where I had to talk about it 586 00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:01.359 this week because he was here at Washington. They can 587 00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.240 basically block them from having any say in the EU. 588 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.039 I looked it up like they can completely marginalize Hungary, 589 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:11.720 and there is a path toward even though it's not 590 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.559 in the Charter of NATO. There is another article in 591 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:21.039 the overall Vienna Convention that we could essentially boot Hungary 592 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.680 out of NATO. So I mean, I am probably already 593 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:30.400 I am one hundred percent for defending our historic and 594 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.920 important allies around the world in democracies. That's the other 595 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.799 thing when a CIA officer is trying to do something 596 00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:40.759 in another country. Generally speaking, yes, they're promoting the interests 597 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.200 of the United States, of course, that's what every country does. 598 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.640 But they're also promoting, at least historically, the interests of 599 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:53.720 freedom and democracy and individual civil liberties, right, so things 600 00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.160 that I mean, we don't talk about what we do, 601 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.680 but we I think it we'd be proud. I'll be 602 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:01.599 proud to talk about why we're doing, which is to 603 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:06.559 promote the idea of other countries having the right of 604 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:11.640 self governance, right choosing your representatives and unchoosing your representatives, 605 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.279 and having the right to say what you want even 606 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.640 if it's not what the government agrees with, and everything 607 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.599 else that goes with being in the United States or 608 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.640 a country like US. So certainly Western Europe is the 609 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.720 same way, but I think we have to protect that. 610 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.920 So the idea that it's eroding and that people are 611 00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:33.559 talking about it is a good thing. It's a good thing, right, 612 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.279 It's a good thing that we're talking about it, and 613 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:37.880 it's a good thing that we're identifying where we think 614 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:43.000 that would be the case, because ultimately, the idea that 615 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.359 you would protect the freedom of speech, not just of 616 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.400 your own ability to say what you want, which is 617 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.480 really not protecting free speech. It's just protecting your speech. 618 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.039 You have to be willing to protect speech you don't 619 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:01.079 agree with. That's free speech, right, and if it's if 620 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:05.359 it was popular speech, it wouldn't need protection. So every American, 621 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.960 not that they listen to me, but every American, if 622 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.559 you believe in free speech. You need to protect the 623 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.200 right of somebody who thinks the opposite of you, whose 624 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.920 speech is not popular. That's protecting free speech. 625 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:21.759 So I mean that was that's I mean, that's where 626 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.559 our country is founded on the idea of dissent. 627 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.440 It's good, absolutely absolutely. 628 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.799 If you don't like it, that's fine. I mean, you know, 629 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.000 I live in d C. So there's a protest on 630 00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:33.359 every issue all the time. I don't know, it's good. 631 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.880 You welcome that because the other thing too, that's actually 632 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.240 an outlet for people. It's better to allow them to 633 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.640 protest on the street rather than get pissed off. And 634 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.160 you know, and that's that's kind of that's when you 635 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:47.240 see kind of regimes having huge issues. But but I 636 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.160 but the the you know, the one the one thing 637 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.279 that I think that is uh is really interesting though, 638 00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.039 is to see how our foreign partners are looking at 639 00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.440 us right now and the amount of concern and worry 640 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.960 and so and so for have because you know, because 641 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.720 because Trump ends up being so kind of schizophrenic on policies, 642 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.000 you know, you can't say right now that that you know, 643 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.519 Donald Trump is is is pushing forward a pro rush 644 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.199 of policy on Ukraine because it just changes all the time. 645 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.239 So in some ways maybe that's a good thing, and 646 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.199 they just think it's just incredibly you know, unpredictable. Uh. 647 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.360 But but you know the I actually I worried for 648 00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:27.719 a while, like how do we run an agent a 649 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.280 penetration of the Russian Intelligence Service? 650 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:30.760 Right now? 651 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.599 It's a job of a case officer is harder if 652 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:37.920 there's questions of you know, where is the US going 653 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.880 to go on policy? And you know, is there a 654 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:41.440 works to autocracy? 655 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:47.679 All right? So like you guys mentioned like historical allies, uh, 656 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:53.039 you know, NATO and five Eyes. What happens if in 657 00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:58.400 this hypothetical the United States is not a democracy anymore 658 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:03.000 authoritarian regime? What do countries like the Five Eyes, well, 659 00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:06.480 four Eyes and NATO, you know, m I six, name 660 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:08.800 your pick. What do you what are they doing in 661 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:15.239 the US in terms of operations? Because I mean I'm 662 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.800 sure they still they still spy on us a little bit, right, 663 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:22.440 like they have embassies with diplomats, you know, what are 664 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:23.400 they doing if there. 665 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:29.039 Is I mean, under this hypothetical, our alliances would change. 666 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:32.760 You would be more closely associated with other authoritarian regimes 667 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.639 around the world, right, And so what you're calling the 668 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:41.079 five eyes would even exist, right, I mean they wouldn't 669 00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:43.320 be five eyes. It would be or would be a 670 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:49.320 different collection of eyes. Right. Ah, that it's never gonna happen. 671 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.119 But again, I need to keep saying that. But it's 672 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:56.119 it's but I would say this. Uh So, you know 673 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:57.679 I'm in the big city now, so I took the 674 00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:59.400 time to go to a movie last night, since we know, 675 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.480 I went there a theater in town I live in, 676 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:10.960 went to saw Nuremberg. I'm phenomenal, phenomenal. I think Russell 677 00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:16.280 Crowe and uh Rammy Malick should both get the oscar. 678 00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.400 Obviously you know what happened. I would just tell you, Mark, 679 00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.880 don't read anything about the story before you go, because 680 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.639 there's going to be stuff that is true. I looked 681 00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:28.960 it up afterwards. You're going to go, oh like, like 682 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.079 I didn't know what. I consider myself a history geek. 683 00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:35.599 It's really But the point, the reason why I'm bringing 684 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.760 it up is the psychiatrist that played that. Ronny Malick 685 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:47.559 plays doctor Kelly, who's interviewing all these Nazis, including from 686 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:52.199 Goring main character Russell Crowe. His book that he wrote 687 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.400 after and put the movies based on and one of 688 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.599 the one of the main findings is although those people 689 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:03.039 were horrible, they're not unique to a time and place 690 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.960 that this could happen in any country, and we need 691 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.000 to view it that way. Not that there was happened 692 00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.199 to be a bunch of monsters in Germany in the 693 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:17.440 nineteen thirties and forties, not that there wasn't. That certainly 694 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:19.760 wasn't his point, But his point was that this could 695 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.880 happen anywhere, and I think we ought to take that 696 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:26.760 as a kind of a siren to call for what 697 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:29.280 we're talking about today. Again, I think it's happy United States, 698 00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.039 but that doesn't mean it can't happen in other countries. 699 00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:36.199 Like there's countries that are traditionally inclined to the western 700 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.159 Western way of governance that are not anymore, So we 701 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:44.119 need to keep that in mind. I think this movie 702 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:48.559 is incredibly well done, kind of brings back your faith 703 00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:53.159 and our ability of ecodies, but also really important politically 704 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:54.760 and philosophically. 705 00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:55.320 Right now. 706 00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:59.320 Looks as an older man, now here's my worry about today. 707 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:00.760 It's two and a half hours. I'm gonna have to 708 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.679 pee like three times. Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this. 709 00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:06.400 There's no way and night. But I'm excited to see 710 00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.079 it for all the reasons you you talked about. I 711 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.320 think you know there it is. It is relevant historically, 712 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:13.400 and it's you know, it's relevant now. And I've always wondered, 713 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.199 you know, just about the notion of you know, how 714 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:18.519 to how do societies kind of accept evil things that 715 00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:21.480 start happening. And again I'm just gonna bring up in 716 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.480 the United States now, and this this is my kind 717 00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.079 of pet peed these days because I watch all the 718 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.360 ICE and CVP raids that are going on in Chicago 719 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:31.920 and other places, and it's horrifying. And again, I work 720 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.199 with police departments all the time, and this is against 721 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:36.519 all policing. It's this is this is out of the 722 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.400 fascist playbook. And what's happening. I mean literally police departments 723 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:42.880 are telling their their officers that you cannot do this, 724 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:44.639 you will be prosecuted, you will be fired. 725 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:45.719 They're having there. 726 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:47.760 I mean in big city East Coast police department I 727 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.679 work with, they're literally saying you cannot cooperate with ICE 728 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:54.639 or BBS, a border patrol on this. And so there's 729 00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:56.519 parts of so there's some things that and I do 730 00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:58.440 wonder I mean I get upset about this, but I think, 731 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.000 you know, half of America looks at this and they're 732 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.719 not disturbed. And I don't understand that, because this is 733 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.119 just kind of basic decency, you know, matching a car 734 00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.079 window and dragging a freeman woman out with a kid 735 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:11.960 in the back of the car. I don't understand. I 736 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:15.440 don't understand this, and so I think there is some relevance. 737 00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:17.079 And of course it's not the same and it would 738 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:19.719 be too hyperbolic if we said, you know, we're at 739 00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:24.320 that state now of you know, nineteen forties Germany. That's crazy, 740 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:26.599 But there's stuff that goes on today. You're just like, 741 00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:28.559 I'm not sure how this is happening in America. 742 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:29.599 It's a little disturbing. 743 00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:33.840 So I got a question, what would a what would 744 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:37.000 a country like Canada be doing? I know, like they're 745 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.840 a friendly neighbor or whatever, but like they have a 746 00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:44.639 secret intelligence service. What are they doing in a country 747 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.039 that is completely falling apart at the scenes in terms 748 00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:52.079 of liberal democracy. Are they working with resistance groups, are 749 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:54.119 they taking a more active role or like what are 750 00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:56.559 you guys speculative obviously, what do you guys think. 751 00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.079 They believe here? You're thinking like a handmade's tale kind 752 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.760 of scenario. Here is that with because under that scenario, 753 00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.840 if you read the book of the books, the United 754 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:11.079 States becomes somewhat of an authoritarian country in Canada's like 755 00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:12.440 freedom freedom land. 756 00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:15.440 Right. Well, no, my, my, my questions based on the 757 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.400 fact that, you know, if the US democracy were to 758 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.320 like be a shell of itself, it would totally affect 759 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:26.760 Canada because Mexico. That's why that's my thought process in 760 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:29.880 terms even though handmates tell is great. 761 00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:35.599 I think more than anything, their their immediate mission would 762 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:37.760 be to find out what, I what is going to 763 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.719 spill over into Canada. You know, what are our plans 764 00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.400 or what are whoever's in charge of plans? What are 765 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.480 they for Canada as far as military intelligs whatever it is. 766 00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:53.360 And this takes us back to when President Trump had 767 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:57.079 his you know, site set on Canada for whatever reason, 768 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.320 whether it was tariffs or turning it into another state 769 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:02.960 or whatever it was. Those sorts of things. They're laughable, 770 00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:05.519 but those are the kind of concerns. You know, it's like, 771 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:07.880 is he joking? You know, we want to know what 772 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.840 your leaders are thinking. So I think the Canadian Intelligence 773 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.639 Service those are the kind of things short term or 774 00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:17.000 long short term would be, is this violence or is 775 00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:18.639 this unrest or whatever it is that's going on in 776 00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:20.480 the US going to spill over in Canada? And then 777 00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:23.599 long term, what are the US is whatever, whoever's in 778 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.960 charge in the US, what are their plans for us? 779 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.639 Because there are we're neighbors, you know, and Mexico would 780 00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:31.239 be thinking the exact same thing. 781 00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:39.159 Yeah, And a lot of our allies have started taking 782 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:44.159 steps because either the intelligence that they usually get is 783 00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.280 then we already boot some people out of I mean 784 00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:49.760 Mark might remember this, R. Jason. Then we already start 785 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.800 restricting certain intelligence to some of the Five Eyes. And 786 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.559 I know we were talking about it, but if obviously, 787 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.320 if we shifted entirely, then I think Canada is gonna 788 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:03.639 would look at us as one of their highest priorities 789 00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:07.079 for collection, right. I mean, we're way bigger than them, 790 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.840 and we're right below them, and we've already talked about 791 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:13.519 them being a fifty first state. So if I was them, 792 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:17.760 I would be quadrupling my military, making it and properly 793 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:23.079 trying to gain a nuclear weapon, right, the ultimate security 794 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:28.679 and increasing by intelligence capacity beyond one that just you know, 795 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:30.960 basically butters up to the agency to get there and 796 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:34.280 tell it has the capacity to do it themselves and 797 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:38.960 including a covert element. So I mean, that's what I 798 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:40.679 think I will be doing if I was Canada. 799 00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.199 Yeah. Look, and there's things that are happening in Canada 800 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.400 now in the sense of you know, there is there's 801 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.360 obviously a massive crisis and confidence among Canadians and the 802 00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:53.840 feelings towards the United States. But but you know, the 803 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.159 Canada is the kind of US. These are the largest 804 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.880 trading partners. But because of this kind of crazy twerff 805 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.119 where you know, Trump sees a mercial during the World Series, 806 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:05.559 gets pissed and throws massive tariffs on Canada, which is bananas. 807 00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:08.760 But the Canadians are looking right now to China. I 808 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.719 mean they've announced it publicly. They said the US is 809 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:12.840 not may not be reliable. I mean, they don't want 810 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:16.760 that because the economies are so you know, intertwined. But 811 00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:18.880 they're gonna, you know, they're going to look to China 812 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:21.199 as a as a more reliable partner, and I think 813 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.000 the Chinese will probably take advantage of that. One of 814 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.440 the things you see amongst our allies now and again 815 00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.239 this is why it's it's so kind of uh self 816 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.280 defeating in some of the kind of the rhetoric and 817 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.159 the strangeness coming out of the White House when Trump 818 00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:36.239 gets pissed and lashes out. Is countries that originally we're 819 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.880 going to buy, for example, the F thirty five are 820 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:41.079 not you know, they're going down different roads in terms 821 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:44.320 of acquisitions. Portugal is not looking at the F thirty five. 822 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:49.840 Ukraine just bought the Griffin, and so you know, the 823 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.519 things that are happening in which there's questioning on US 824 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.239 reliability and that's what you would you would see kind 825 00:43:56.239 --> 00:44:00.679 of in the future as well. Again and this and 826 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:03.840 it's not gonna happen in this hypothetical scenario. It's kind 827 00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:08.079 of a creeping march towards authoritarianism. Now to kind of 828 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:10.679 put some a favorable spin on this, I mean, I 829 00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:13.599 I do think the American people don't like this notion. 830 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:18.000 Uh and there will be kind of pushback on that. Uh, 831 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:20.400 but you know, we'll we'll, I guess we'll see in 832 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.159 the midterms. 833 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.280 Yeah, that'sday. 834 00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.360 It was an example that I mean, look, whatever party 835 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.559 is in power, it's always good when there's a course 836 00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:33.119 correction everything happens and the left comes into power, we 837 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.920 swing too far to the left, and there's crazy ship 838 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:36.719 the left does. The right comes into power, now they 839 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.599 do stupid stuff, and so Americans usually course correct. And 840 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.679 that's why I think Tuesday, because you did have you know, 841 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:45.880 New York City race is stupid and everyone you know, 842 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:48.760 Fox News loves this, but it's irrelevant. But that's why 843 00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.440 when you see centrist candidates, when the governor races in 844 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.480 Virginia and New Jersey, I think that's a good thing. 845 00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:56.880 But I think the midterms will tell it's a lot more. 846 00:44:56.920 --> 00:44:57.840 And you know it's and. 847 00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:01.320 That you know, divided government is a good thing. Americans 848 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:02.840 like that, and there's a reason for that. 849 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.519 Make you were going to say, actually, I was going 850 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:11.320 to say something some of the what Marcus said that unfortunately, 851 00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.119 I mean, as I'm probably on the right, maybe Mark's 852 00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:18.320 on the left. Then Jason characterize your self. But what 853 00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.679 I see is the pential intense to never like slow 854 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.519 down in the middle. It just goes right. So you're 855 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:28.039 talking about the issues that we have with ice right 856 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.599 now that probably wouldn't happened if they didn't essentially open 857 00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:36.440 the border for several years, right so I mean, it's 858 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:41.400 if if we could get you know this, the pendulum 859 00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:44.159 slow down in the middle and maybe even stop. I 860 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.760 think that would be very helpful. But you know that's politics. 861 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:49.000 Are you would stand on that. But it does tend 862 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.599 to cause a reaction that it keeps pulling the pendulum 863 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:56.440 higher up on the on the vortex, if that's the 864 00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.559 right term, you know what I mean, It goes higher 865 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.239 up on each side each time. And I don't think 866 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:03.519 that's helpful to the United States, and certainly not helpful 867 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:09.480 to a modern democracy where it's very difficult to have 868 00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:13.280 a long term strategy if we keep shifting entirely our 869 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:18.639 not just internal politics. I focus on external But our 870 00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:21.760 allies want to be able to rely on us period. 871 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.639 They don't want us to every four years decide whether 872 00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:28.280 we want to support we praying all out or now 873 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.480 we don't care. I'm not saying that's the case right now. 874 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.000 Obviously it's plenty on the right that you support, you brain, 875 00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.360 but we have to promote promote democracy around the world 876 00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:38.360 to be the leader of the free world, or it's 877 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:40.960 just rhetoric. If we're not promoting it, if we're not 878 00:46:41.079 --> 00:46:43.639 defending it, we're not putting our money where our mouth is. 879 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.320 Then this idea that we have a Reagan view of 880 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.679 shiny city on the hill, there's a beacon of freedom, 881 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.159 that's a leader of the free world. We've all said 882 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:56.199 for decades it's not true. And I don't think any 883 00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:58.679 Americans should want to get to a place where we're 884 00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:01.840 not viewed as that rather world. 885 00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:09.119 I think we're there, honestly. That's my worry. Is that 886 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.440 that that you know again, I just I like, I 887 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:13.320 know you travel all the time too, but I think 888 00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:15.199 we we are, we are closer to that point where 889 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:19.320 people are questioning, you know about American exceptionalism, about America 890 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.719 is the bright, shining city on the hill, just because 891 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:24.079 there's no because exactly what you said, there's no there's 892 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.639 no Trump doctrine. 893 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:27.639 It's transactional. You know. 894 00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:30.480 The Reagan doctrine is very clear about fighting for you know, 895 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:33.320 it's for freedom against kind of the communist menace. 896 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.039 That's a good thing. Uh. 897 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.280 But but I don't think we have a doctrine now. 898 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.480 So I think that's that is a that is a problem, 899 00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.119 that that notion, that that inspired a lot of us. 900 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:48.960 But maybe I'm thinking maybe I'm too extreme on that. 901 00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:52.440 And d take what Mark and Mick just said and 902 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.280 bring it down to a micro level to that case 903 00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.960 officer that's sitting across from that potential high value asset 904 00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:04.039 who is asking for you know, possible repeat your are 905 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.280 uh being able to come to the United States once 906 00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.960 they're you know, they've done what's been asked them? Are 907 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:11.800 they going to trust? Are they going to say yes 908 00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:14.239 when if they're on their country is on a list 909 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.679 of do not enters to the United States, or you know, 910 00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:21.519 there's question their their loyalty to us would be questioned. 911 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.320 Why would I say yes if I was a potential 912 00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:26.800 high level asset to why would I trust what that 913 00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:29.519 case officer saying on behalf of the United States who 914 00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:33.760 is showing it currently that depending on what you look 915 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.840 like or what your views are, you may not even 916 00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.639 be able to come into this country. So that's something 917 00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:41.239 they need that you know, an intelligence officer would want 918 00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:43.559 to think about. 919 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:50.559 That's why how all this stuff ripples has like different ripples. 920 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:54.159 I mean, I wouldn't want to go to diplomatic reception 921 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.920 right now a lot of the time explaining that the 922 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.679 Russians and the you know, and there's like you know 923 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:02.199 they're gonna give you a wink and say it kind 924 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:03.000 of the same same. 925 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.079 You know, who are they? 926 00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:06.239 Who? 927 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.119 I mean just. 928 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.639 But but but again, this does not mean that this 929 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.920 is something that is kind of baked in stealing. 930 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.840 Right, No, this is a hyphe Yeah, it's a hypothetical obviously. 931 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.239 I mean, you guys work in the CIA. For the 932 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:21.960 most part, we've been pretty good to our assets. I'm 933 00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:24.920 assuming right, in terms of getting them out and at 934 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.239 least I mean Afghanistan, notwithstanding that's another fucking disaster. But 935 00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:33.159 I'm saying CIA specifically, like you guys are doing what 936 00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:38.239 you can to get assets out of harm's way, and. 937 00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.800 Even yeah, what does that mean just a c I 938 00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:49.039 A h. I mean I think people are I don't 939 00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:50.400 know if assets are quitting right now. 940 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.039 There's tough conversations. And then I said, kind of trace 941 00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:54.559 my Brescia. 942 00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:00.440 You know he's having with the case ins. Maybe that's 943 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.360 just natural, that's but that's but then the job is 944 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.360 the case officer to manipulate the asset a little bit, 945 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:09.079 say everything's fine, even if you might not believe it. Yeah, 946 00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:12.360 and Nick and I promised the courage like the moon, right, 947 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.079 I'm going some courage. 948 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:19.880 I got a Curtigonish T shirt. By the way, it 949 00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:25.440 looks like patagony. They sent it to him. 950 00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:27.280 All right, I mean if we have anything like I 951 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:29.679 mean this was I enjoyed this a lot. I mean. 952 00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:34.239 At the at the what they there's several groups that 953 00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:38.719 study freedom around the world, Freedom House, et cetera. I 954 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.159 looked at their uh, the things that they rate. So 955 00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.639 if you're okay with it, I'll read the ten that 956 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:48.400 they measure, and then you can decide how we're doing. 957 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:53.760 Erosion of free and fair elections, the concentration of power 958 00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:58.159 in the executive branch, the undermining of civil liberties and 959 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:03.159 the rule of law, the delted littim adjation of the opposition, 960 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:09.159 the use of emergencies creating crisis to justify power graphs, 961 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:15.599 the erosion of independent media, the fragmentation and loss of 962 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:20.280 democratic norms, legal changes that chift power but retain the 963 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:26.199 appearance of democracy, waking up, institutional resilience and oversight, and 964 00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:29.960 the decline and the public trust, legitimacy, and the commitment 965 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:31.280 to a democratic society. 966 00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:34.800 I think the case about. 967 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.039 Our audience can decide how we're. 968 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:43.119 Hey as of the United States. Rating on freedom House 969 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.599 gone down. I mean this seriously, I think you know 970 00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:47.480 where are we on on on that list? 971 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:49.519 So I don't have the list. 972 00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:55.280 I mean we could quickly, okay, Freedom House being critical 973 00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:59.480 or seeing that our our stock is not rising. 974 00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:01.880 That's a point. Maybe all Americans should look at that, 975 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:05.199 and regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum, 976 00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:09.440 if we're going down, we should all be like alarmed. Right, 977 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:11.679 whether it's the far left or the far right doing stuff, 978 00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:14.039 it shouldn't matter. It should be like, wait a minute, 979 00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:17.679 if anything, we should be going up the list. I'm 980 00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:18.840 pretty sure we're not on top. 981 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:27.000 Noo, We're eighty four out of one hundred democracy yeah, well, no, 982 00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:34.280 eighty four out of one hundred in terms of freedom. 983 00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:35.159 Yeah, another ninety three countries, so there should be. 984 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:46.079 Right, we're number hold on, I'm scrolling down where it 985 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.880 looks like they don't even put numbers on the guys. 986 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:51.880 Hold on a second, Well he's doing that. There's a 987 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.800 great book called How Civil Wars Start and How to 988 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.119 Stop Them by Barbara F. Walter, great book that talks 989 00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:04.360 about this stuff as well. Okay, I actually want to 990 00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:05.920 get her on this on the show. 991 00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:10.199 Also, Anne Applebaum wrote a book a couple of months ago, right, 992 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:11.559 hypocrisy incorporated. 993 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:16.760 Yeah, right, so she might go to on this on 994 00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:19.000 on and she is very alarmed. 995 00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:23.360 Yeah, we're about twenty fifth in the world. 996 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:26.599 We shouldn't be twenty fifth on the democracy on that rating, 997 00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:27.400 that's not good. 998 00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:31.480 Good, we're the oldest continued democracy. That's you think this 999 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.400 would be one thing that Americans would all get behind, 1000 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.000 like we are. We need to be the freest country 1001 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:41.800 in the world. It benefits everybody here. It shouldn't be 1002 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:44.400 a partisan thing at all, and it makes no sense 1003 00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:48.239 at all. So maybe that would be the the kind 1004 00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:53.440 of unifying issue of the United States is going up 1005 00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:55.360 that list, not doubt. 1006 00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:58.239 Yeah. 1007 00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:01.039 Yeah, last year we were three out of one hundred 1008 00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:03.159 and hour eighty four out of one hundred. That's our rating, 1009 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.039 like eighty four percent out of one hundred. 1010 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:12.480 Oh yes, that's good, like a bee solid by solid B. 1011 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:14.719 We want to be at A. We want to be 1012 00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:16.039 an A plus, that's for sure. 1013 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.159 Gods, this is awesome. We have anything left? Tell me 1014 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.039 Hit me up, Mark, how's your podcast going? Tell me 1015 00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:23.519 about it? 1016 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:24.199 Good? 1017 00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:27.199 Good, it's been it's been fun. It's been you know, 1018 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:31.960 I have to learn British humor. No, it's been it's 1019 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:34.599 been quite interesting and we actually made some news. A 1020 00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:36.760 couple of weeks ago we had the former National Security 1021 00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:40.679 Advisor on and he criticized China. And then later that 1022 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:43.280 or the next day a question was raised with the 1023 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:45.760 Prime Minister about the podcast and about beyond. 1024 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:47.760 It was kind of fun, but I got to learn all. 1025 00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:49.679 I mean, I'm trying to learn about British politics and 1026 00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:52.519 it's a it's good stuff. 1027 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:55.119 It's called The Crisis Room. Check it out. I'll have 1028 00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:58.320 links in the description and the show notes. Mick Malroy's 1029 00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.360 got a new podcast too, called The Up in the 1030 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:04.000 Porch Applied Stoicism, just got video, so I'll put all 1031 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.199 the links down in the description there as well. Jason 1032 00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:08.920 Lynes all his links are in the description too. And 1033 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.159 do us a favor. Go to our Patreon Patreon dot 1034 00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:14.519 com slash the Teamhouse. You get both Eyes On and 1035 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:18.599 Team House episodes ad free and early and help support 1036 00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:25.840 the show. Guys. This is awesome. Thank you, Thank you guys. Hey, guys, 1037 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:27.880 how's it going. It's d I want to thank you 1038 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:30.079 for watching the show. I really appreciate it and I love 1039 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:33.360 for you guys to check out our Patreon. It's at 1040 00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:37.079 patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse. The link is in 1041 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.840 the description, Super easy to find if you're listening. It's 1042 00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.440 in the show notes as well. You can find it 1043 00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:44.920 right there. What do you get? 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