WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen? 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.560 What? 3 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:28.239 Welcome back to the occult rejects. Today we're stepping into 4 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:31.559 one of the most famous, misunderstood and mysterious streams of 5 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.520 Western ceremonial magic, the world. 6 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:35.600 Of Solomonic pentacles. 7 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.880 When people hear the name Solomon, they usually think of 8 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:42.240 the biblical king, the wise ruler, the builder of the temple, 9 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.719 the judge between two mothers, the monarch associated with wealth, 10 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:50.479 divine favor, and supernatural command. But in the occult imagination, 11 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:55.079 Solomon becomes something else as well. He becomes the magician king, 12 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.719 the one who knows the names, the seals, the angels, 13 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.600 the demons, the plan monetary powers, the sacred geometry, and 14 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.840 the divine words by which invisible forces are ordered. Whether 15 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:10.799 we are reading the old grimoires as history, mythology, theology, 16 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.680 magical technology, or living spiritual practice, the solemon occurred sits 17 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:17.920 at the crossroads of all of it, and at the 18 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:22.480 center of that tradition are the pentacles, sacred diagrams, planetary talismans, 19 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:28.239 symbols of divine authority, protection, attraction, healing, command, wisdom, and 20 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:32.359 spiritual alignment. These are not just occult symbols in the 21 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.319 shallow modern sense. They are layered machines of meaning. They 22 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:41.719 combine Hebrew, divine names, angelic names, biblical verses, planetary forces, 23 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:47.920 geometric structure, timing, prayer, consecration, and intention. They are part scripture, 24 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.959 part sigil, part temple, part twol our guest. Today, Emery's 25 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:54.760 Abner has taken on the difficult task of bringing these 26 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:57.959 pentacles out of the dusty margins of Grimore Studies into 27 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:03.159 a modern, living conversation. His book, Solomonic Pentacles Wisdom of 28 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:05.640 Magic for the Modern Age does not simply treat the 29 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.000 pentacles as a museum pieces or spooky diagrams from an 30 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.120 old magical manuscript. It asks what they are, how they function, 31 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.560 why they matter, and how a modern practitioner can build 32 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:20.800 a real relationship with them without stripping away their depth, 33 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:25.240 their sacredness, or their historical roots. What makes Emories especially 34 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:27.680 interesting is that he is not approaching this only as 35 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.080 a writer. He comes to this as someone who has 36 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:33.879 spent his life chasing the divine through history, theology, music 37 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.439 and art. He has a background as an educator. He 38 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.039 works through the world of sound and sacred practice, and 39 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.840 he seems deeply concerned with making complex magical ideas understandable 40 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:48.039 without making them shallow. That matters because solomonic magic can 41 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:52.159 become intimidating very quickly. The names, the alphabets, the seals, 42 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:56.319 the prayers, the planetary logic, the ritual instructions, all of 43 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:59.879 it can feel like a locked door. Emory's work gives 44 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:03.879 people away to approach the door with respect, intelligence. 45 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:04.039 And practice. 46 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.199 Today, we're going to talk about the Key of Solomon, 47 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:14.319 the Pentacles, planetary magic, psalms pathworking, talismanic construction, ethics, experimentation, 48 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.120 and what it means to practice an old magical system 49 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.439 in a modern world. We'll also get into Emory's own path, 50 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.000 how music, teaching, theology, and the occult came together in 51 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:26.599 his life, and why the Pentacles became important enough for 52 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.199 him to write an entire book around them. But before 53 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.319 we introduce the rest of the panel, I would also 54 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.080 like to remind everybody about the website. If you're into reading, 55 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.759 we have tons of information by multiple contributors, and we 56 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:39.840 got t shirts up on the site if you're interested. 57 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.719 Fun fact, the art is all based on the eyeball. 58 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:45.199 Now let me introduce the rest of the panel and 59 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.080 the guests. 60 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.439 What is going on? Judith? How are you let everybody 61 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:50.479 know where they can find you? Please? 62 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.159 I am fine, Thank you for having me. It's wonderful. 63 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.759 I look forward to this discussion with Emory's and you 64 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:02.439 can find me at YouTube x and on speaker as 65 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:02.919 the Loom. 66 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.639 Yes, thank you very much for joining me. I'm very excited. 67 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:10.000 And gin my man, what is going on in j 68 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:10.520 how way? 69 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.439 What's up, Cardinal? I'm really glad to be here. Obviously, 70 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.519 people who've listened to us on the show, especially like 71 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:22.600 Nick and I speak about are retired magical practices, will 72 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:26.079 say they know that I fancied myself at one time 73 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.120 from about sixteen to maybe like twenty five twenty six. 74 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.439 I won't even use magic numbers, but I was. I'm 75 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:37.040 very familiar with the pentacles of Solomon and just the 76 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:39.639 greater and Lesser keys. It was a spiritual technology that 77 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.879 I availed myself of many times. I have timed myself 78 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.600 doing the orations and the Samic recitations, so I know, 79 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.560 I can, you know, very autistically, so I can get 80 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.319 it down to like a science specific like a yes, 81 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:55.480 you know, in one night if I needed to do 82 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.199 it in one night. I could easily, well not easily, 83 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.639 but I could get it done. And so so I'm 84 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.639 really excited for this topic. Obviously it's close to my heart. 85 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.480 I'm obviously retired from that, but I still think it's 86 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:13.360 a very viable, useful and important technique and technology for 87 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.920 people who are just not just beginner magic, but just 88 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.720 it's a really good it's a whole hermeneutic in and 89 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:22.160 of itself, the seals. So I think it's a great 90 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:27.160 way to learn correspondences, planetary intelligences, the Kabbala obviously because 91 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.800 they are Kabala in many ways, they are kind of 92 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.600 like the Kabala as a tree, even individually, and we'll 93 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:37.240 probably get into that. But so anyways, that being said, 94 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.120 thank you so much for having me. You can check 95 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:41.360 me out on Threshold Saints. I just dropped an episode 96 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.879 with my co host Solar Exile and Paul Frederick from 97 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.439 the Demonosofti podcast. It's a part two. We're talking about 98 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:51.079 Zoastrianism and kind of the Black Flame cultivation. I have 99 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:53.959 an episode coming out today with Herbie and the Kirk Cast, 100 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:57.600 which is like a very cool zoomer. They're too cooler 101 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:01.839 than me. A show, and they talk about like Asian 102 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.240 anime culture, like Hong Kong cinema and martial arts, a 103 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:08.839 little bit of Taoist cultivation and how that sort of 104 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.040 obviously because it was on my show, it ties into metamagic, 105 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:14.639 so how we can use those sort of like the 106 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.879 gifts and the aesthetics of Asian cinema to sort of 107 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:23.519 be mimetic magicians on the internet. And yeah, and so 108 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:25.319 you can always check out The Gray Lodge, of course 109 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:28.600 on our YouTube channel YouTube dot com, slash at the 110 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.000 True tr Ve Gray Lodge dot com, or you can 111 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.879 check out Threshold Saints at Threshold Saints at substock dot com, 112 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.000 which is my main landing page, but of course also 113 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.959 Spotify and Apple. So thank you guys so much appreciate it. 114 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.560 And of course Judith always happy to see a fellow Matian. 115 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.240 Uh and yeah, I'm really excited, Thank. 116 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.399 You, thank you for making it in I knew I 117 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:51.199 knew this would be something like close to your heart 118 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:52.920 and you'd be interested in so I'm very glad. 119 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:53.319 You can make it. 120 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:57.759 And Emeryes please sir let everybody know what's up with you. 121 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:59.839 Anything you would like to promote and stuff that I'm 122 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:00.600 like have left out. 123 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.680 Yeah, thanks for the introduction, and it's cool to be 124 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:11.040 here with you all. My I think the only thing 125 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:14.160 I want to mention is that I've also got an 126 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:20.000 Etsy storer called the Acoustic Alchemists, And on the Acoustic Alchemist, 127 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:24.199 I make a whole bunch of altar plates for different occasions, 128 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.759 a lot of them utilizing Salamonic principles, and and the 129 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:34.680 pinnacles themselves. I make pinnacles as well, including you know, 130 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.240 in in my book, I've got a couple of pinnacles 131 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:43.120 that I think that the Hebrew on them, or the 132 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.360 sometimes the Malechem on them was like not right. And 133 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.360 so I've got a couple of corrected pentacles as well. 134 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.120 And then I'll let you know that coming down the pipe. 135 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.519 We've got two books that are on the way. One 136 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:04.399 is we just finished the last editing process, so it's 137 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:10.920 in like layout. This is the a book for using 138 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.720 the seventy two angels of the Shamha Maparash and the 139 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:17.920 seventy two demons of the Goisha as spiritual pairs and 140 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:23.319 using them as teams instead of an opposition. And there's 141 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:26.519 a quite an extensive primer to Kabbala in that, so 142 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.519 I'm really excited for that one to come out. And 143 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.759 then I'm also working with a couple of other authors 144 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:39.919 to do a kind of a magical psalter where we 145 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:43.919 go through all one hundred and fifty psalms and we 146 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:49.440 kind of talk about each psalm from our particular perspective 147 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.440 and then write a spell or ritual to go along 148 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.200 with that psalm. And so it'll be me tackling the 149 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:04.279 ceremonial perspective. We have a a Hudoo practitioner and an 150 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:08.399 ozark Roots practitioner, So I think there's it's going to 151 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.840 be cool. There's gon be some diverse perspectives. You know, 152 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.039 we're looking at the same palm and we don't we 153 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.360 don't always agree, but we're like learning from each other, 154 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.279 and so I think, you. 155 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:18.559 Know, I think that is great. 156 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.519 I love that idea too. Sorry, Nick, you just want 157 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:27.639 to say like that, I always have had like obviously 158 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.039 I'm very into cabal nick nossises, but I'm very into 159 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.639 kabala I emories, and so for me, I always have 160 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:38.240 had color angelic ritual associations with each psalm, and I'm 161 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:40.919 very as I said, I'm a little autistic about it. 162 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:44.159 So I very tend to be fixed in those ideas. 163 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.639 But I think this is like really brilliant, and I'm 164 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.440 glad that somebody is like tackling something like that because 165 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.320 I think some the recitation of psalms is like also 166 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.559 a perfect kabalistic hermeneutic. It's the way to learn. You 167 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.840 can learn all of Kabala through the psalms. So I'm 168 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.840 I think it's way under utilized. I think people have 169 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:05.279 no idea what is like sitting in there, you know, 170 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:10.360 grandparents' bedroom in terms of a spell or magical technology. 171 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:12.279 So I'm really excited to get that. 172 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:14.600 Yeah, me too, it's going to be it's gonna be 173 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.879 a thick boy too. I think, gosh, the manuscript right 174 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:25.080 now is like sixteen pages. It's crazy. 175 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:25.600 You know. 176 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:27.559 One thing I did actually want to mention before we 177 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:29.519 go any further. I'm going to ask about you first 178 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:31.919 before we get into the book, but I did want 179 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.679 to mention, like your book like this is a this 180 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:38.039 is a fucking book, like it's it's it's this isn't 181 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:39.919 like one of those small ones you might like pick 182 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:42.320 up in this store, like this is a I was 183 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.759 impressed when I got this book. 184 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:45.159 I'll be honest, I was impressed. 185 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.480 So you're getting your money's worth in paper, believe me. 186 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.440 But before we get into the book, I do want 187 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.840 to ask, like, what was it that got you into this? 188 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.240 And like when was it that You're like, this isn't 189 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:01.879 just a I don't know, this is this is going 190 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:02.519 to be your life. 191 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.759 You know what I'm saying. When did that happen? How 192 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:05.279 did that happen? 193 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:10.799 Well, so, yeah, those things kind of happened separately. You know, 194 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:14.600 I've always kind of been interested in in the occult as. 195 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.799 You know, a lot of people here are you know, 196 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:22.559 kind of lifers in that way. But I grew up 197 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120 Catholic and I, you know, kind of stuck with that 198 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.360 path for a long time. I ended up kind of 199 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.440 breaking with that after I had an experience where I was, 200 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:35.279 you know, I was living on a monastery for a 201 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.279 while and just couldn't it wasn't it wasn't my bag. 202 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.240 Plus I met a girl, so that was kind of 203 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.480 the end of that and we've been and we've been 204 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:55.279 married for seventeen years. So it worked out good. But then, 205 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:57.480 you know, when I decided to kind of make it, 206 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:04.600 uh my focus and my calling was really really during COVID, 207 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.759 because before COVID, I had I had a nonprofit called 208 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:13.720 Discover Music and we went around to mostly middle schools, 209 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.879 some high schools and we would teach kids how to 210 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.759 do songwriting as a way to kind of manage their 211 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:25.759 emotional selves. And it was a cool program. We you know, 212 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:27.919 we had. We had a good run about ten years 213 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:32.919 and then just trying to trying to navigate teaching through 214 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:39.399 COVID was too difficult and funding got all lacky and uh, 215 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:41.759 and so it ended up kind of killing the program. 216 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.120 So I kind of looked around and said, like, what 217 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:49.519 am I going to do now? And the message I 218 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.000 got was, Hey, I think it's time to it's time 219 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:56.360 to double down on the occult stuff and dig dig 220 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:00.480 real deep into that. And so so I did that 221 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:05.360 and didn't look bast that's nice. 222 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:05.720 Nice. 223 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.799 Did any of you guys, Judith are Jenda, did you 224 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:11.120 want to ask anything before I go through that? 225 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.159 Well, I will make them. I'll mention something that has 226 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.279 come up many times Snack on the show is that 227 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.519 a lot of occultists actually have, including myself obviously, have 228 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.480 Catholic backgrounds, and so I'm not saying to be Catholic 229 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.000 I'm not. I'm not a Catholic. I'm not a Christian myself. 230 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.399 I'm not a pagan either, But you know, secret third 231 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.399 thing tontrac writist. So but you know, uh, I think 232 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.639 that there is a deep Rosicrucian hermaneutic. There's a deep 233 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.200 esoteric element to Catholicism. And I think that while it's 234 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.399 not necessarily contained in how Catholicism is understood and practiced 235 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.879 by like the outer or even maybe inner or even 236 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:51.159 maybe secret congregations, whatever that looks like, I think that 237 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:56.120 it's enough to sort of if people are interested in 238 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:59.720 magic and they're like raised in that environment, they're going 239 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:03.279 to have a certain defined set of symbols that is 240 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.320 going to actually help them and sort of carry them through, 241 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.639 especially like if you're learning like a grippa like I 242 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.240 used to be a big a grip of person. And 243 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:13.519 obviously he says go to church like five days a week. 244 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.120 There was a point where I was going to church 245 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.519 five days a week so I could consecrate the seals, 246 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.200 like that's just what you have to do. And I 247 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.720 just think that while I don't do that now, I 248 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.240 can understand how those things definitely carried with me and 249 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.840 carried me through understanding like more esoteric icography. So if 250 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.000 Emoris wants to comment on that, I'd love to hear 251 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:34.240 his perspective. 252 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.919 Yeah, I mean, I think there's a definite Catholic to 253 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:44.639 occult pipeline, if you Well, even when I was at 254 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.600 Sacred Space conference, we were kind of, you know, talking 255 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:52.000 about our backgrounds and things, and I got to say, 256 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.279 like seventy five percent of the people I talked to 257 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.720 were all ex Catholics, So there's there's something in the 258 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:04.799 sauce there. And you know, ah, at first, my first 259 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:09.279 reaction was, yeah, there's a lot of magic in Catholicism. 260 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.039 It kind of primes you for that, which is why 261 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.360 it feels so familiar to come to occultism. And then 262 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.919 at that conference, somebody planted out there like, well, that's 263 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:24.720 the right idea, but it's it's reversed because they took 264 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.440 all their rituals from us, and just because they're more 265 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.200 popular now, you know, we kind of give them primacy. 266 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:38.759 But but it feels familiar because it came from different 267 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:43.159 mystery cults to begin with. And uh, and that that 268 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:44.600 tied up a neat little bow for me. 269 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:53.559 There's absolutely a lot of methriism, like undeniable undeniable amount 270 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.720 of methraism and sort of what I call I think 271 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.440 more an Aonic terms memory. So for me, like falsism 272 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.200 is very like an of the Sun. But they've amalgamated 273 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:06.159 a of the father things. You have a rising and 274 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.519 obviously a rising and falling God, so that's not really 275 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.480 an of the son. That's much more a of the Father. 276 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.559 Then you have like the Mother who's both a virgin 277 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.720 and a mother. That is not how I would necessarily 278 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.679 think of it. But they've kind of unified this into 279 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.279 this Platonic trilogy or Platonic trinity, so they've kind of 280 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:28.240 mixed the ans together, mixed the stories together. But I 281 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.440 agree that there is a lot of sort of Platonic 282 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:38.720 and neo Platonic and Pythagora, Pythagorian and many other you know, 283 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.879 Kabbala has been revitalized within the church. Nick has covered 284 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.720 this quite a few times, like you have these saints 285 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:49.360 mystics that reintroduce different kinds of Kabala, especially Pico. I mean, 286 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.600 we wouldn't even really have a you know, the Golden 287 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:56.759 Dawn and like for all the other knowledge purportedly of 288 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.399 the of the tree. They would like nobody would really 289 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.399 understand ball in modernity as a non Jew if you 290 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.440 didn't have Pico. I mean, it's it's like that fundamental, 291 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.599 like for even for me, it's like that fundamental. So yeah, 292 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.559 I definitely think that it's definitely in Cathalism. Now what 293 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.039 I take issue with and say, is it coming from 294 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.000 those places or is it kind of a syncretism which 295 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.319 is what catholic is. Remember, it's like universalism. So there 296 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:24.759 is an idea that maybe it is the Pax Romana 297 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.039 religion is Catholicism, but they present it in this particular way. 298 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.920 But maybe that's just a framing issue. Anyways, I'm not 299 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:32.960 taking issue with what you said, memories. I just would 300 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.759 maybe positive a different way. But thank you so much. 301 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:42.880 Yeah, one thing I did when I ask unless you 302 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:47.599 had anything to say back when it came because I 303 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.440 know you were a music teacher for a bit, do 304 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.720 you think that helped U with maybe the way you 305 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.440 like did this book I helped like try to teach 306 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:56.920 this stuff to people. 307 00:17:57.799 --> 00:17:58.279 Did it help it? 308 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:05.039 Yeah? Yeah, I think it did. I mean the you know, 309 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.319 there there is a there is an art to teaching 310 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:13.839 there's an art to like taking a complex concept and 311 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.200 then breaking it down into its constituent parts and making 312 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.480 it digestible so that other people can understand it. And 313 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:28.119 also you know, using things like just anecdotes, figuring out 314 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.400 different metaphors that might resonate with different people, and trying 315 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.000 to teach a concept from a couple of different angles, 316 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:39.480 because everybody learns differently. I think learning how to teach 317 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.680 definitely is a good skill to have if you're going 318 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.119 to try and do instructional writing. 319 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.599 I mean, it's kind of even interesting, like what you 320 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.680 said someone let me see, Oh okay, that was from him, 321 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.079 all right, yeah, kind of like what you were saying 322 00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.240 before To me, I feel like this is a topic 323 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:01.599 that is like very intricate and detailed there can be 324 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.200 And I was wondering like if like the fact that 325 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.240 of you teaching before helped you kind of like find 326 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.000 different ways of trying to explain it very easy for people. 327 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:18.319 It's probably exactly what you said, So thanks, uh your 328 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.599 work under the name the Acoustic Alchemist. The title itself 329 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.400 feels like, you know, kind of like a bridge between 330 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.640 sound and transformation and spiritual practice. What does an acoustic 331 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.079 alchemy mean to you. 332 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.599 You know, it's just kind of a blend of the 333 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.200 two things that I really like to do. So when 334 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.599 I when I think about magical practice, the way that 335 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.640 I usually use it most is more in like a 336 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:49.799 more in like a mystic quality. I know that that 337 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:54.519 some people are maybe more concerned with, you know, tangible 338 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:59.240 results today, and some people are more concerned with evolving 339 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.000 the soul. And I think I'm kind of more on 340 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:07.519 that ladder, uh, that ladder place. And then the acoustic 341 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.359 part is my other job is I'm a folk musician 342 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.400 and have been for about twenty five years. I gig 343 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:20.680 regularly and pretty much always on acoustic instruments. It's kind 344 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:21.680 of my kind of a thing. 345 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:28.759 Than did anybody have anything. 346 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.039 I didn't? 347 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:35.240 I'm sorry, I do have a question because you said 348 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.640 you have the background in Catholicism. Was your motivation? Did 349 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.720 you actually were you raised within the church that actually 350 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:46.200 sang the masses and sang the songs that was a 351 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:48.960 motivator behind you. 352 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:54.200 No, but I did go to a Benedictine college and 353 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.720 so they had they had service a couple of times 354 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:02.839 a day where they do the the traditional chanting, and 355 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.640 I was part of the music ministry there, so so 356 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.400 there is you know, there is like a deep connection 357 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:16.640 there between kind of music and sacredness and and all 358 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.559 of that kind of kind of blends together. 359 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.559 To me, that's an aspect that most people tend to 360 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.440 forget about. Was part of the mass originally, and the 361 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.920 ceremony part of everything. And even though we are whether 362 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.799 we were tired or not, some ceremonial magicians, we tend 363 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:42.240 to forget the vocalization, the vibrations that comes along with 364 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.440 that practice. So I found that very unique. 365 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:51.839 Yea, in the abbey church where they would do the chanting, 366 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:57.000 it's this huge vaulted thing and it's it was made 367 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.359 in like this kind of brutalist architecture style, so there's 368 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.000 it's unique in the fact that there are no internal 369 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:11.079 columns supporting the roof, and so it's this enormous concrete 370 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:16.200 chamber and it has a like a six second reverb, 371 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.000 so when you sing something, it starts bouncing off all 372 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:25.160 the walls. And when you get all these monks chanting 373 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.680 these things, you realize that the notes, the way that 374 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:33.680 the chants are constructed, the notes are meant to harmonize 375 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:35.880 with each other as they Bounce off the wall. 376 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.799 I covered like a week or two ago. 377 00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.759 I had an episode that drops I think one Stone 378 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.960 sing and I literally covered how there was. 379 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:47.720 I forgot exactly which place it was. 380 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.119 The reverberation was I think up to a like eleven seconds, 381 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.799 and like it was actually like they do believe it 382 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.359 was done so then like you're actually getting a completely 383 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.799 different sound mixed with like everything bouncing around and the 384 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.599 the voice. It was done on perpet and I was like, Yo, 385 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.759 that ship is fucking crazy. It's pretty wild that they 386 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:07.039 knew to do that stuff back then. 387 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:10.519 Yeah, they were, they were more clever, and we gave 388 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.279 him credit. 389 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:14.839 For Yeah, they was like con cave like they were 390 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.240 showing how like maybe sometimes like things that looks like 391 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.319 it's cut in will do different remeberation than if it 392 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.079 looked like it was like coming out it was. 393 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.960 I was like, oh wow, like damn, I've. 394 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.640 Actually got a coolie. I want to show you. 395 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:28.400 Yeah, g. 396 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.319 Oh, I want I'll say this really quick while he's 397 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.880 doing the house orry he's coming oh wait, oh wait. 398 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.559 At a garage sale. 399 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:44.640 You got at a garage sale? 400 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:47.960 Yeah, yeah, I got it for twenty bucks. And then 401 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.240