Speaker 1: Hey, what is happening and what is up? Hold out
Speaker 1: your glass because we are about to build it up. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: welcome to the Prometheus Lens podcast, the place where the
Speaker 1: conversations are always in lightning. We're gonna continue our journey
Speaker 1: through season one and man, this was a fun one
Speaker 1: just to go back and listen to. And this is
Speaker 1: kind of where I got my start and was getting
Speaker 1: my legs underneath me. And Derek was one of those guys.
Speaker 2: Man. I loved his work.
Speaker 1: I followed him for years, and Derek was always so
Speaker 1: cool because I mean a lot of people don't realize
Speaker 1: I was deep diving and reading this stuff and going
Speaker 1: into these subjects all the way back to like twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: I was just late to podcasting to get to talking.
Speaker 2: About these things. But Derek was always that really cool guy.
Speaker 2: I'd always reach out.
Speaker 1: On social media or email without fail. Derek would always
Speaker 1: reach out and me and him talk back and forth
Speaker 1: for a few years. So when I started the podcast,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't know anybody, but I told the guys,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Hey, Derek Gilbert. I wouldn't say we're BFFs, man,
Speaker 1: but we know each other. We talk a lot. We've
Speaker 1: talked for years. I'm sure he would love to come
Speaker 1: on the show, and I reached out and Derek was
Speaker 1: more than willing to come on the show and talk
Speaker 1: to us. So he was really like our first big
Speaker 1: name guest. So I was kind of in my fan
Speaker 1: boy moment there sitting down and exchanging ideas with this
Speaker 1: man and picking his brain. So this is just a
Speaker 1: really great conversation. I know you guys are going to
Speaker 1: enjoy it, but yeah, guys, just sit back, relax, and
Speaker 1: enjoy the journey.
Speaker 3: We should read our Bibles as men dig for bury treasure.
Speaker 1: One of the most high game with the nations their inheritance.
Speaker 1: When He divided mankind, he fixed.
Speaker 2: The borders of people's according to the number of the
Speaker 2: sons of God.
Speaker 3: In those days and for some time after, giant Nephilites
Speaker 3: lived down to the earth, for whenever the sons of
Speaker 3: God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children
Speaker 3: who became the heroes and famous warriors.
Speaker 2: Of ancient tides.
Speaker 1: Take no part in the fruitless deeds of darkness, but
Speaker 1: yet expose that though a thousand fall at your side,
Speaker 1: though ten thousand are dying around you.
Speaker 2: These eaters will not touching.
Speaker 1: Lives of garden man, you gotta dig it. Hell, oh,
Speaker 1: fellow treasure hunters, welcome to the excavation side. I'mjustin alongside
Speaker 1: and when we got Ben, Stephen and Chad will be
Speaker 1: your guides on this excursion. Hope you brought your shovel
Speaker 1: in your compass because we.
Speaker 2: Got the map. Let's do.
Speaker 1: What's going on on my local guys and gals and
Speaker 1: long distance pals.
Speaker 2: We're back. What's going on?
Speaker 3: Nothing really new here.
Speaker 1: I'm working, working our life away.
Speaker 3: That's pretty much what it goes through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And I hurried you get things done? Yeah, well files here.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, man, it feel so good today.
Speaker 3: I've been wearing jackets already.
Speaker 4: I hate this.
Speaker 3: I'd much rather be warm.
Speaker 2: We're stealing T shirts.
Speaker 1: Yeah we got we got our yankee that moved down
Speaker 1: south and now.
Speaker 2: He's afraid of the cold.
Speaker 4: True story.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: Well, we got a pretty exciting episode today. We got
Speaker 1: another guest with us talking about their books and stuff.
Speaker 1: But before we dive right in, I guess we'll open
Speaker 1: up with some prayer. Heavenly Father, thank you for this day.
Speaker 1: We thank you for the many blessings. It's you've given us.
Speaker 1: We thank you for our guest today taking time out
Speaker 1: of his busy schedule to sit with us and talk
Speaker 1: to us.
Speaker 2: And dig through your word.
Speaker 1: We just pray for discernment, and we pray that some
Speaker 1: secrets are revealed unto us today, Father, and we get
Speaker 1: a better understanding of your word. And hope this message
Speaker 1: reaches whoever it needs to.
Speaker 2: Father. It's in your hands. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 1: Well today very excited. One of my favorite authors is here.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: This is an introduction because knowledge. He's author, researcher, podcaster
Speaker 1: and TV host. He's written books The Day the Earth
Speaker 1: Stands Still, The Great Inception, Bad Mood Rising, Last Clash
Speaker 1: of the Titans, of Veneration, Giants, Gods and Dragons, and
Speaker 1: his latest, The Second Coming of Saturn. He's the host
Speaker 1: of SkyWatch TV five and ten Sie Friday Unraveling Revelation
Speaker 1: with his wife. He's also a podcaster with Gilbert House Fellowship,
Speaker 1: A View from the Bunker with Iron and Myth, and
Speaker 1: even does tours in Israel. This guy watch TV and
Speaker 1: even done one with Michael Heiser a few years back.
Speaker 1: That's busy, yeah, busy man.
Speaker 3: How does he find the time. That's the question.
Speaker 2: Today we have with this Derek Gilbert. How you doing, Derek, that's.
Speaker 4: An honor to be here. I'm doing great. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Did I miss anything?
Speaker 4: I don't think So you made sign a lot more
Speaker 4: important than I know.
Speaker 2: You're very important, very important. Man.
Speaker 3: You're doing God's work getting a lot of people turned
Speaker 3: back to that supernatural view. That the same way when
Speaker 3: we talk about the simple Second Temple Jewish period, the
Speaker 3: way that things were viewed back then, that really bring
Speaker 3: the Bible to life so that we truly get everything
Speaker 3: out of it. And that's what you're doing, and that's
Speaker 3: to me, that's that's what it's all about.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, amen, I mean this just started for
Speaker 4: Sharing and me back when we discovered Mike Kaiser and
Speaker 4: we were led to him as we were researching material
Speaker 4: for novels that we were trying to write. Sharon, of course,
Speaker 4: has been She's had a supernatural worldview since she was
Speaker 4: a little girl. Me I had a star Trek worldview
Speaker 4: until after we met. I think even though I called
Speaker 4: myself a Christian. You can ask her about this sometime.
Speaker 4: We had discussions early in our marriage about whether or
Speaker 4: not Darwinian evolution was consistent with the Book of Genesis.
Speaker 4: So thankfully the Lord is patient and the Holy Spirit
Speaker 4: kind of whacked me on the side of the head
Speaker 4: with the board. And once I began reading apologetics and
Speaker 4: understanding that, say, wait a minute, if the eyewitness testimony
Speaker 4: to the resurrection is compelling, then why aren't you accepting
Speaker 4: Jesus testimony of the Old Testament and the events therein Like, hmm, okay,
Speaker 4: maybe I need to rethink my worldview a little bit.
Speaker 4: And so that began the journey. So these last twenty
Speaker 4: five years have been an interesting journey, and finding Mike
Speaker 4: Heiser's work back around two thousand and four was an
Speaker 4: integral part of that. So he is you know, he
Speaker 4: likes to joking to call himself Gandalf, you know, coming
Speaker 4: to Middle Earth and defensing his wisdom, and in a
Speaker 4: way he's right. So we're just you know, I guess
Speaker 4: that makes me Froto or something. I'm not sure. Maybe
Speaker 4: I'm radagas the Brown, you know. But you know, Mike
Speaker 4: is an actual scholar, and Sharon is genuinely brilliant. I've
Speaker 4: got pretty good reading comprehension, but you know, they're smarter
Speaker 4: than I. Am. I'm just happy that the Lord has
Speaker 4: found a way to take this weird wiring inside my
Speaker 4: head and use it. Because when I find a problem
Speaker 4: that I like to research or something I'm interested in,
Speaker 4: Sharon says, You're like a pit bull on crack, and so, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's I'm the kid that would come home from school
Speaker 4: every day in the first grade, Hey, mom, guess what,
Speaker 4: and you know, just repeat to her everything I'd learned
Speaker 4: all day and she'd just stand there at the sink
Speaker 4: train to wash dishes and go. But God bless her
Speaker 4: mom put up with all of that. She instilled delved
Speaker 4: reading in me. My dad instilled the love of solving problems,
Speaker 4: and now here we are, you know, six even into
Speaker 4: my seventh decade and finally doing something really productive, I
Speaker 4: think for with eternal eternal consequences.
Speaker 2: Amen.
Speaker 1: And that was the one thing I was gonna ask you,
Speaker 1: was you know you, Michael Heizer and Tray Smith were
Speaker 1: three major influences on me.
Speaker 2: And that's how I.
Speaker 1: First discovered you, was do a Tray Smith video, and
Speaker 1: then I found your book, you know, the Last Clash
Speaker 1: of the Titans, and then after that I just had
Speaker 1: to buy every single one of them. But I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you, you know, like me, it was
Speaker 1: unseen realm? Was my you know, I guess the matrix
Speaker 1: red blue peel. I took the red peel to see
Speaker 1: how far the rabbit hole went. You know, I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you, you know, what was your I
Speaker 1: guess red peel?
Speaker 2: Event would that? Would it be the Unseen Realm? Also?
Speaker 4: Well it would have been if Mike had written it then,
Speaker 4: because we we actually have been following Mike since he
Speaker 4: began the process of writing the book. The original title
Speaker 4: was The Myth That Is True, And I guess the
Speaker 4: publisher decided that the use of the word myth in
Speaker 4: there might give the wrong impression to Christians, okay, because
Speaker 4: a myth is something that's, you know, a made up story.
Speaker 4: It's a fairy tale. So we can't use that in
Speaker 4: the title. But we saw some of the working drafts
Speaker 4: of that. We began interviewing Mike for our podcast PID Radio.
Speaker 4: I think we just found the first interview. We saved
Speaker 4: all those audio archives, almost all, I think ninety nine percent.
Speaker 4: I think we found the first interview with Mike from
Speaker 4: either the fall of two two thousand and five or
Speaker 4: spring of two thousand and six something like that, and
Speaker 4: just made it available on our mobile app. But it
Speaker 4: was actually a book that was published online by Peter
Speaker 4: good Game called Against World Powers, and that's where we
Speaker 4: saw the first reference to Mike. And this was at
Speaker 4: his website, Redmoon Rising dot com. Peter had written a
Speaker 4: book on what he called the Red Moon Rapture, which
Speaker 4: is sort of like a modified pre Wrath. References to
Speaker 4: Mike and also to doctor David Roll was sort of
Speaker 4: a maverick egyptologist, led me down a research path and
Speaker 4: suddenly things began to make more sense, like, wait a minute,
Speaker 4: the Tower of Babbel was real, and we've got archaeological
Speaker 4: evidence that suggest that the Samerians have a poem that
Speaker 4: talks about the rebuilding of this temple above a place
Speaker 4: called the Abyss and it was to be and it
Speaker 4: even mentions the confusion and languages and wait, there's these
Speaker 4: these gods are real, Sharon, did you know any of this?
Speaker 4: And so that kind of led to a whole furious
Speaker 4: period of research, and as we were trying to use
Speaker 4: our podcast to market the series of novels that we
Speaker 4: were trying to write back then, which lasted one episode, Okay,
Speaker 4: we told people to buy our books. Now what do
Speaker 4: we do? Okay? You know, we make programs telling people
Speaker 4: about the stuff that inspires what we do. Okay. And
Speaker 4: that led to interviewing people like Mike Kaiser and La
Speaker 4: mar Zouli and so on and so on, which led
Speaker 4: to Tom Horn and you know, fifteen years later we're
Speaker 4: in the Ozarks working with Tom. Anyway, this was kind
Speaker 4: of an eye opening thing because I was raised, like
Speaker 4: most Christians here in America that taught that the gods
Speaker 4: of the Pagans around ancient Israel were their imaginary friends. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, that the Idols were just you know, blocks
Speaker 4: of wood and stone, and oh, they were just too
Speaker 4: primitive to know that they weren't real, ignoring the fact
Speaker 4: that the Egyptians and the Romans and the Greeks and
Speaker 4: the Hittites and the Sumerians had these amazing civilizations where
Speaker 4: they were able to build these these massive structures.
Speaker 2: That we can't even recreate, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know, we've just recently discovered within the
Speaker 4: last couple of years that the Amorites, the Amorites who
Speaker 4: founded Babylon around the time of Abraham, had discovered trigonometry. Okay,
Speaker 4: so these were not stupid people. They weren't sacrificing things
Speaker 4: that were precious and dear to them, not just their livestock,
Speaker 4: but their children in many cases, because they were too
Speaker 4: primitive to understand these gods they worshiped weren't real. No,
Speaker 4: they were doing it because they were getting something out
Speaker 4: of the transaction. So to find somebody who was a
Speaker 4: credentialed scholar making this case and saying and oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: by the way, that explains why this this, this had
Speaker 4: happened in the Bible, and why Jesus did this here
Speaker 4: at Cesarea Philippi. Oh, suddenly things began to open. And
Speaker 4: of course that was another eye opening moment when I
Speaker 4: heard an interview with the doctor Jed Burton on the
Speaker 4: Old Future Quake podcast talking about Cesarea Philippie the Grotto
Speaker 4: of Pan and why he went there To ask Peter,
Speaker 4: who do you say that I am. It's because that's
Speaker 4: where the gates of Hell were and the rock in
Speaker 4: which you build the church is that nine thousand foot
Speaker 4: mountain right behind him where the god Ell lived with Like, Okay,
Speaker 4: suddenly that all made sense. And now we've just been
Speaker 4: taking the since coming to work for Tom Horn and
Speaker 4: being blessed to earn our livings. Now by doing this
Speaker 4: kind of research and writing, we have the time to
Speaker 4: dig into the academic re search by mainly secular researchers
Speaker 4: and just pull out all of this information that these
Speaker 4: scholars know. They just don't have a biblical framework to
Speaker 4: process it. And that's what's resulted in the books that
Speaker 4: we've been blessed to publish through Defender Publishing these last
Speaker 4: seven years.
Speaker 1: That's amazing because stuff like that, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like the old saying I've always heard people say, you know,
Speaker 1: find a job you love, You'll never work another day
Speaker 1: in your life.
Speaker 4: Amen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you also have all the radio background too,
Speaker 1: so I mean, you know, God is lining these dominoes
Speaker 1: up for you, and we're glad he did.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, and I think all of us have
Speaker 4: that experience. You get to a point in your life
Speaker 4: and you think back and it'say, okay. At the time,
Speaker 4: this seemed like a really awful thing, the worst thing ever.
Speaker 4: But now I can see why He allowed me to
Speaker 4: go through this. Yeah, was preparation training, agreed, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, I look back at a
Speaker 4: lot of time. I'm throughout my life what I wish
Speaker 4: I would have done something different. I wish I could
Speaker 4: take something back. But you wouldn't be the person you
Speaker 4: are today if you had had those experiences. So at
Speaker 4: the same time, I wouldn't be sitting in this chair
Speaker 4: right here, talking to you right now if I hadn't
Speaker 4: had those life experiences. That God, you know, he doesn't
Speaker 4: make bad things happen, but he takes all the bad
Speaker 4: things and allows something good to come out of them.
Speaker 4: And our human experience with regret and pain and sorrow
Speaker 4: remorse that shapes us into who we are. And the
Speaker 4: fact that we know that we've only got a limited lifespan. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mentioned seventh decade. Okay, I turned sixty this year,
Speaker 4: and I'm not, you know, morbid about this at all,
Speaker 4: but you know, I recognize now I've got fewer spins
Speaker 4: around the sun ahead of me than I've got behind me.
Speaker 4: That just instills a sense of urgency because there's more
Speaker 4: to do and I have to get busy about it.
Speaker 4: You know. Other people, Okay, maybe they feel like, you know,
Speaker 4: I've earned my rest. Fine, whatever God calls you do
Speaker 4: that that's fine. Feeling is the opposite. While I've got
Speaker 4: energy and strength, I've got things information that I want
Speaker 4: to communicate. And because He's instilled in me this desire,
Speaker 4: you know, inside the sixty year old body is still
Speaker 4: this one year. You know this, this six year old
Speaker 4: kid saying, Hey, guess what, Guess what, and wanting to
Speaker 4: share that because of the joy and the excitement at
Speaker 4: finding these these bits of gold. I love the intro
Speaker 4: to your show because it's exactly right, there's the nuggets
Speaker 4: of gold in his word. Yes, And because of apologetics
Speaker 4: and the work of learned men and women over the
Speaker 4: last two thousand years who's devoted their lives to the
Speaker 4: study of his word, we can know that. We know that,
Speaker 4: we know that this word has been accurately transcribed and
Speaker 4: preserved for us, unlike every other faith out there, with
Speaker 4: the exception of our Jewish brothers and sisters. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, you know, God bless Muslims. But there was
Speaker 4: no one else in the cave with Muhammad to corroborate
Speaker 4: what he supposedly heard from the angel Jabriel. Nobody to
Speaker 4: corroborate the teachings of the Buddha, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: Et cetera. But Paul and one Corinthians fifteen makes a
Speaker 4: point of writing to the church at Corinth. Hey, Look,
Speaker 4: resurrection is the central, the single most important fact about
Speaker 4: this doctrine. If Jesus isn't raised, then we're all still
Speaker 4: in our sins. We're all doomed. In other words, and
Speaker 4: here's the good news. The risen Christ that is first
Speaker 4: appeared to Peter, and then to James, and then to
Speaker 4: the rest of the twelve, and then to five hundred others.
Speaker 4: Most of them are still alive. So you don't believe me,
Speaker 4: go ask around. Send someone to Jerusalem and ask around,
Speaker 4: because there are still witnesses walking the streets today. There
Speaker 4: were witnesses and my dad, who was an engineer by
Speaker 4: training for his entire life, this is what convinced him.
Speaker 4: I'm sure of it. In fact, I know it is
Speaker 4: because we talked about it a couple of weeks before
Speaker 4: he asked. The only reason Christianity survived past the end
Speaker 4: of the first century, despite the persecution of the Roman
Speaker 4: Empire and the Sanhedron, was that there were too many
Speaker 4: people who'd seen the risen Christ. Too many people knew
Speaker 4: what had really happened. For them to kill the faith.
Speaker 2: Amen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's going to die for something they just made up.
Speaker 4: Exactly. So a lot of people will die for what
Speaker 4: they think is true, but if they know it's a lie,
Speaker 4: yeah they're not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the blades to the throats.
Speaker 1: You're going to cracky, all right, we made it all up?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like how Ben said, we've done an episode on
Speaker 1: Jesus and we talking about you know how atheists you know, be.
Speaker 2: Like, well, he's Jesus.
Speaker 1: Looked back at the Torah, so it was easy for
Speaker 1: him to checklist all those things off to tell people
Speaker 1: he was the Messiah and then being was like so
Speaker 1: what when he was on the cross, he was just
Speaker 1: He's like, I made this far.
Speaker 4: Guys, don't break nothing.
Speaker 2: Don't break up, you'll miss it all up.
Speaker 4: And he was there to arrange the city he was
Speaker 4: born in it right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Well, I guess.
Speaker 1: Diving into some of your your books and your work,
Speaker 1: if you guys don't mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're going to jump right in.
Speaker 1: My favorite last class of the Titans.
Speaker 2: Loved that book. And but I was always a big.
Speaker 1: History nerd, you know what I mean, So, like you know,
Speaker 1: in school when we were reading about the you know,
Speaker 1: the the pantheon of Greece, you know, and Zeus and
Speaker 1: all the other gods, the demi gods, you know, and
Speaker 1: even when we got to Egypt, you know, the same
Speaker 1: you know, structure, and how you correlated all that with
Speaker 1: a biblical view. That just that really opened the can
Speaker 1: of worms. And like you said, it really got me
Speaker 1: diving in with this new set of glasses on seeing
Speaker 1: it all.
Speaker 2: And then it was just like, oh, it's here, it's here,
Speaker 2: it's everywhere, you know.
Speaker 1: But I love how it's the whole Deuteronomy thirty two,
Speaker 1: Genesis six worldview. And we've kind of touched on that
Speaker 1: with our listeners, but if you could just you know,
Speaker 1: give us basically, I guess, just like your overall view
Speaker 1: of that book and how you connected the other gods
Speaker 1: of the nations with the whole you know, Deuteronomy thirty
Speaker 1: two Fallen Angels worldview.
Speaker 4: Well, it's pretty easy to do because that was the
Speaker 4: view of the Jews of Jesus Day and the early Church.
Speaker 4: They understood that the fallen angels, that they're the gods
Speaker 4: of their pagan neighbors, were real, but that they were
Speaker 4: fallen angels. So you know, it is surprising to us
Speaker 4: today because again, we in America, we in the Western world,
Speaker 4: since the Enlightenment, have this default belief that if it
Speaker 4: doesn't fit with a scientific worldview, or really scientistic is
Speaker 4: more accurate, then it can't possibly be real. Our friend
Speaker 4: Guy Malone, who's the guy behind the famous Ancient of
Speaker 4: Days Bible UFO conferences in Roswell, said, look, the price
Speaker 4: of admission to our club is believing that a Jewish
Speaker 4: carpenter rose himself from the dead two thousand years ago.
Speaker 4: Why is it that we try to make everything else
Speaker 4: make more sense after that? I mean, and why is
Speaker 4: it that we believe ourselves so much smarter than the
Speaker 4: early Church theologians. So when you look at Jesus, who
Speaker 4: literally in Matthew twelve when he was confronted by the
Speaker 4: scribes and Pharisees and said, you're casting out demons by
Speaker 4: the power of Beel's a bull, which means bail the Prince,
Speaker 4: Jesus said, if Satan cast out demons by his own power,
Speaker 4: how will those kingdom stand? So? Okay, bail equals Satan?
Speaker 4: All right, Now, wait a minute, Christians, we're willing to
Speaker 4: acknowledge Satan is real. Why are we saying, and Jesus said,
Speaker 4: Satan bail? What? Why do we didn't try to allegorize this? Okay, well,
Speaker 4: it's just a type of bail, he's it's a metaphor,
Speaker 4: it's a symbol. It can't be real because they don't exist.
Speaker 4: But Jesus said, I know where you live, you know
Speaker 4: in Revelation two talking about the pergamum where Satan dwells,
Speaker 4: where Satan's seat is, and that's a reference to the
Speaker 4: great Altar of Zeus. Zeus was just the Greek form
Speaker 4: of bail. He's the storm god, He's the king of
Speaker 4: the pantheon. It's like, oh, okay again, was Jesus misinformed?
Speaker 4: Was he too primitive to understand that Jupiter, that Satan,
Speaker 4: the Zeus, that bail were just not real, because that's
Speaker 4: not what he says in the Bible. When you look
Speaker 4: at the Old Testament, psalmty two is like a courtroom
Speaker 4: scene in heaven where God takes his place in the
Speaker 4: midst of the divine council and says, though you are gods,
Speaker 4: sons of the Most High, all of you, like men,
Speaker 4: you shall die and fall like any prince, So it's
Speaker 4: not that difficult when you start from there. And again
Speaker 4: the Deuteronomy thirty two reference when God divided the nations,
Speaker 4: he numbered them according to the number of the sons
Speaker 4: of God, which in Hebrew is a phrase that always
Speaker 4: refers to supernatural entities, the belief that most theologians have
Speaker 4: today because again the default belief by by Christian theologians
Speaker 4: is that these entities aren't real, they don't really exist.
Speaker 4: But that denies what the actual Hebrew words mean. Is
Speaker 4: telling Israelis they don't know their own language. Yeah, I think, yeah,
Speaker 4: we know, that's what you say it means, but that's
Speaker 4: not what it means.
Speaker 2: That's not what you meant. I think.
Speaker 3: I think a big part of that, and a big
Speaker 3: the part that made me kind of and it's something
Speaker 3: that I always, even as a kid, I had such
Speaker 3: a hard time with, was when during the Exodus, how
Speaker 3: many times did the Israelites fall away? And it finally
Speaker 3: hit me to say that easy, well, well you'd think that,
Speaker 3: but the whole thing is they just walked through the
Speaker 3: Red Sea and all of a sudden they're to turn
Speaker 3: and worship somebody else. They're not going to do that
Speaker 3: if they have just seen somebody miraculous do something unless
Speaker 3: they see one of these other lower case g gods
Speaker 3: are able to do something else some other, just like
Speaker 3: they saw in Egypt. Right when Pharaoh's magicians, you know,
Speaker 3: turn their rods into snakes, that Pharaoh's magicians can make
Speaker 3: water into blood, Pharaoh's magicians can bring frogs out of
Speaker 3: the nile. When they can do those same things, you
Speaker 3: can see how they would fall and say, well, look
Speaker 3: look what Bail did this time, you know. And it
Speaker 3: might not say exactly that this deity did this and
Speaker 3: during the exodus, but there's no other way to explain
Speaker 3: that the Israelites fell away so fast and so often
Speaker 3: during that exodus after seeing unbelievable things that happened in Egypt,
Speaker 3: I mean unbelievable things.
Speaker 4: It was the understanding of the ancient world that gods
Speaker 4: had territories. And this was one of the things that
Speaker 4: kind of opened our eyes when we started down this
Speaker 4: road during our weekly Bible study, getting to Exodus fourteen
Speaker 4: and God tells Moses and the israel Lights to turn back,
Speaker 4: and like, wait a minute, that was was that in
Speaker 4: the movie, Because I don't remember Charlton heston turning around.
Speaker 4: They kept running until they got to the Red Sea,
Speaker 4: and then they were pinned and God had to rescue him.
Speaker 1: You know, why would you stop and wait in the
Speaker 1: spiritual warfact.
Speaker 4: And then said here camp at this place facing bales
Speaker 4: of faun like wait a minute, bales, And why is
Speaker 4: Bail in Egypt because he's a Canaanite god, And what's
Speaker 4: a zafawn anyway, Well, that was a period of history
Speaker 4: or just following the period of history scholars called the
Speaker 4: Second Intermediate Period where the an Amorite group of people
Speaker 4: called the the Egyptians called the Hixos, meaning the rulers
Speaker 4: of foreign lands, controlled the Nile Delta. And of course
Speaker 4: the chief god is Bail, who became God of the
Speaker 4: chief god of the pantheon by defeating the god of
Speaker 4: the sea called Yam in single combat. So you know,
Speaker 4: God of Israel, Yahweh says, okay, watch this, and he
Speaker 4: parts the Red Sea, demonstrating who really has mastery over
Speaker 4: the sea and then destroys the chariots of the Pharaoh
Speaker 4: who tried to follow but Bales Zafan. Zafan is a
Speaker 4: reference to Mount Saffon, which is the place where Bale's
Speaker 4: palace was located. It's up in Turkey, near the border
Speaker 4: with Syria. It's like, oh, okay, so what what what
Speaker 4: else is it? This is what led to the research
Speaker 4: what else is in the Bible that makes sense when
Speaker 4: you start looking at what the pagan neighbors believed around
Speaker 4: ancient Israel. Oh wait, when they entered the wilderness of
Speaker 4: Sin in the Bible, that's the name of the moon
Speaker 4: god of the the the Amorites. The it's called Scene
Speaker 4: is how it's pronounced. And Mount Sinai is actually, according
Speaker 4: to the Jewish Encyclopedia, derived from the name of the
Speaker 4: moon god. So they were in the wilderness of Scene
Speaker 4: at Mount Sinai and God is basically saying no, no, no,
Speaker 4: it's it's not the mountain of God or the mountain
Speaker 4: of the gods. Actually heart Eloheim can mean mounted of
Speaker 4: the Gods. It's it's you know, Yahweh is saying, this
Speaker 4: is my mountain, and I don't care whose wilderness this is.
Speaker 4: These are my people. But yet the Israelites began to
Speaker 4: panic as soon as they entered the wilderness of Seen.
Speaker 4: The Book of Exodus describes it taking place on the
Speaker 4: fifteenth day of the second month. Why is that detail
Speaker 4: relevant Because in a thirty day lunar calendar, that's the
Speaker 4: night when the moon is full, okay, and the night
Speaker 4: of no moon is the thirtieth. The night of the
Speaker 4: new moon is the first, so the moon is full,
Speaker 4: they're entering the territory of the moon God. When he's
Speaker 4: at full power, we're downed. And that's the next morning
Speaker 4: when manna begins to fall. For like forty years, it
Speaker 4: begins to fall and only stops when they crossed the
Speaker 4: river and get ready to attack Jericho, which is named
Speaker 4: for the Amorite moon god. It's a different dialect Yaarik
Speaker 4: is the name of the moon god an Amorite scene
Speaker 4: as Akadian. So there are things like that all through
Speaker 4: the Bible that suddenly begin to make sense, like why
Speaker 4: did they march in a circle around Jericho. A lot
Speaker 4: of different things that make sense when you start looking
Speaker 4: at the practices of the cults around ancient Israel. And yeah,
Speaker 4: it's really astonishing and it's clear when you read things
Speaker 4: like the Subtuagent translation of the Bible, which was prepared
Speaker 4: by Jewish scholars from older Hebrew texts. It's an alternate
Speaker 4: version of the Old Testament. It was the version available
Speaker 4: to the early Church, translated into Greek by about two
Speaker 4: hundred BC, so two hundred years before Jesus. Jewish scholars
Speaker 4: translated this, and there are places where words like Repaem
Speaker 4: are translated as Titan, the names of the old gods
Speaker 4: of the Greeks. The Jewish religious scholars in the centuries
Speaker 4: before Jesus understood the connection between the Old the Sons
Speaker 4: of God from Genesis six and the Titans of Greek mythology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even when you go through the pantheon, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Hercules, you know, and all these other you
Speaker 1: know now that.
Speaker 2: Turning into you know, cartoons and comic books, it turned
Speaker 2: into heroes.
Speaker 1: They're all you know, what are they? The gods came
Speaker 1: down and read with human women and made these men
Speaker 1: of renowned mighty.
Speaker 4: Men actually the Olympians man. Yeah, yeah, I mean you
Speaker 4: can run that back.
Speaker 3: Was it wonder Woman or a Princess Diana and all
Speaker 3: the I mean that just goes right down the list,
Speaker 3: the low Ki all these guys the same thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's some Norse version of of Bail and
Speaker 4: Jupiter and Zeus, so sorry, mat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love how to in your book how
Speaker 3: should drop the mic right there when you say that.
Speaker 2: These are too expensive?
Speaker 1: But how you referenced the finger puppets, you know, and
Speaker 1: I've used that a few times, you know, I've stole
Speaker 1: it from you, but I think I gave you creetings.
Speaker 4: Give sharing credit. She's the one who came up with that, actually,
Speaker 4: But I love that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's one hand, but you've got
Speaker 1: five fingers. There might be a different puppet on each finger,
Speaker 1: but it's the same hand.
Speaker 3: Even some of the way that they're depicted, like with
Speaker 3: a lightning bolt in their hand, or you know, some
Speaker 3: of these deities across they all look the same through
Speaker 3: each of the pantheons. They have a lot of similar characteristics.
Speaker 1: And even like with the up Callu, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean Satan and his fallen realm or don't matter what
Speaker 1: time it is or generation, they're putting the positive spin
Speaker 1: on it. Well, no, we're the good guys, you know, sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: the up CALLU. You know, we're the ones that after
Speaker 1: your mean God flooded and took away all your knowledge,
Speaker 1: we sent forth through the flood to give you back
Speaker 1: this knowledge because we are you know, we are your
Speaker 1: protectors and really good guys. Same thing with Marvel today, Oh,
Speaker 1: Marvel's horrible.
Speaker 4: Well, it's that's a very long process that's been ongoing
Speaker 4: with Marvel and DC, especially since the nineteen sixties. There's
Speaker 4: a very famous writer and artist named Jack Kirby who
Speaker 4: really drew on the cosmologies the religions of the the
Speaker 4: ancient world to develop characters for uh, for those those
Speaker 4: two companies. And UH. In fact, a fella who's been
Speaker 4: a guest on my podcast a few times, Christopher Knowles,
Speaker 4: wrote a book some of years back that really explores
Speaker 4: how comics have tried to repackage the old gods. It's
Speaker 4: called Our Gods Were spandex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me check that out.
Speaker 1: Well with the other one I had was the Great
Speaker 1: Inception and that that was another great one. And uh
Speaker 1: and we've kind of touched on it here and there
Speaker 1: in different episodes, but we've not really went, you know,
Speaker 1: full money on it. But it's like, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole theme of the Battle of the Mountains. You know,
Speaker 1: some are actual physical mountains, you know, some are man made,
Speaker 1: and some you know, are what they call cosmic geography.
Speaker 1: Could you explain that, like and you know, brite down
Speaker 1: some of the mountains and how they're important and what
Speaker 1: cosmic geography actually is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Mike Kaiser's really done a lot of teaching on
Speaker 4: that and again, cosmic geography is say, the probably best
Speaker 4: example is that the mountain of Bail, Mount Safon. It's
Speaker 4: located on the Mediterranean coast near where Turkey and the
Speaker 4: border between Turkey and Syria is located. It's very close
Speaker 4: to Antioch, ancient Antioch. That location, because it was the
Speaker 4: home of Bale's Palace, was so important that the name
Speaker 4: Zephon became the word for the compass point north. In
Speaker 4: Hebrew now and the other Semitic languages like Akkadian that
Speaker 4: are similar to Hebrew and the ancient world, the word
Speaker 4: for north is Samal, which is the word for left.
Speaker 4: For example, the Amorites had two main tribal divisions. The
Speaker 4: Amorites were tribal just like the Israelites. There are a
Speaker 4: lot of similarities between the Amorites and the Israelites. The
Speaker 4: Binu Samal, the sons of the left hand, were the northerners.
Speaker 4: That's where they pastured their flocks basically on the north
Speaker 4: side of the Great Bend of the Euphrates, the Binu Yamina,
Speaker 4: sons of the right hand, those are the Southerners. That's
Speaker 4: where you get the name Benjamin, son of the right
Speaker 4: hand Southerner. Oh wow, so yeah, I mean there's some
Speaker 4: scholars that said, oh, clearly the Israelites must have been Amorite,
Speaker 4: because the Benjaminites came from the amer No. No, it's
Speaker 4: just a popular name back in the day. So but again,
Speaker 4: amongst the Hebrews, the word for north became tafon rather
Speaker 4: than samal, because that's the direction of Bale's palace. But
Speaker 4: more than that, it's cosmic north. It's the it's the
Speaker 4: direction from which supernatural threats come. And I think that's
Speaker 4: one of the key points that I tried to make
Speaker 4: in the Last Clash of the Titans with the analysis
Speaker 4: of Ezekiel thirty eight and thirty nine the War of
Speaker 4: Gog and Magog, because that phrase is used several times
Speaker 4: in those chapters. Yadakat Sefon is usually translated uttermost parts
Speaker 4: of the North. You also see in Isaiah fourteen the
Speaker 4: heights of the North, sides of the North. There are
Speaker 4: some modern translations that understand this is a reference not
Speaker 4: to the direction but to cosmic north Isaiah fourteen, you
Speaker 4: want to establish your mount of assembly on the heights
Speaker 4: of Mount Safon. Well, yeah, that's bail for you. That's Satan.
Speaker 4: He wants to, you know, be the king of the
Speaker 4: king of the world. Ma. Well, that's kind of what's
Speaker 4: in view here with these these mountains. It struck me
Speaker 4: as I was trying to get come up with an
Speaker 4: idea for a presentation at the twenty seventeen Prophecy Watchers Conference.
Speaker 4: Twenty sixteen maybe anyway, it was on. It struck me
Speaker 4: that almost all of the major supernatural encounters in the Bible,
Speaker 4: or some of the most significant, took place on or
Speaker 4: around mountains. Eden, for example, in Ezekiel twenty eight is
Speaker 4: described as a mountain. So the rebel from Eden, who,
Speaker 4: by the way, in my most recent book, I argue,
Speaker 4: is not Satan but Saturn, two different entities. So Lucifer
Speaker 4: is not Satan, he is Saturn, was kicked off of
Speaker 4: God's mountain and out of his garden. Yes, Eden is
Speaker 4: a garden, a garden on God's mountain. So that was
Speaker 4: pretty significant. And this, I think is why in the
Speaker 4: ancient world it was understood that the gods all lived
Speaker 4: on mountains because they're remote, they're pristine, they're beautiful. Us
Speaker 4: humans haven't gotten our garby hands on them and messed
Speaker 4: them up, and so that was the that was the
Speaker 4: dwelling place of mountains. But oddly it seems that there
Speaker 4: are some mountains that were more special than others. I
Speaker 4: mean even as early as the time of Abraham. And
Speaker 4: this is probably remembering even older stories. The epic of
Speaker 4: Gilgamesh sends him and his friend Enkadu on a quest
Speaker 4: to destroy the monster Humbaba, and he is the guardian
Speaker 4: of the Cedar forest, and after they killed this monster,
Speaker 4: they penetrate the secret dwelling of the Ananaki. Well this
Speaker 4: is located, according to that epic, Mount Hermont. Now Babylon
Speaker 4: is a long walk from Mount Herman. I mean, the
Speaker 4: exiles returning from Babylon in the time of Nehemiah took
Speaker 4: four months to walk that far, so it's not like
Speaker 4: these are next door. The other thing is that Mount
Speaker 4: Herman is not one of the one hundred tallest mountains
Speaker 4: on Earth. It's the tallest mountain anywhere near Israel by far.
Speaker 4: But if you go east from ancient Sumer into Iran,
Speaker 4: You've got a lot of mountains in Iran that are
Speaker 4: way taller than Mount Hermon. What is it about Mount
Speaker 4: Herman that's so special? Don't know, but we do know
Speaker 4: that that's where, according to the Book of first Enich,
Speaker 4: the Sons of God, the Watchers, led by Chemiaza descended
Speaker 4: and made their mutual pack to corrupt humanity by taking
Speaker 4: human women and teaching us things we weren't supposed to know.
Speaker 4: It's pretty clear that Jesus and God considered Mount Hermon
Speaker 4: really important because it shows up again and again, just
Speaker 4: sprinkled throughout scripture, and every reference is a reference to
Speaker 4: with supernatural meaning to it. I mean, yes, yes, like
Speaker 4: there there are certain places that we know of today
Speaker 4: where you make mention to a certain location and it's
Speaker 4: connected to some type of activity, you know what they're
Speaker 4: talking about. You don't have to be explicit that that
Speaker 4: was the case with Mount Hermon. You've got, of course
Speaker 4: Mount Carmel, where you had the confrontation between Elijah and
Speaker 4: the prophets of Bale, who I show in the book
Speaker 4: where more than likely profits of Hercules. You've got Mount Sinai,
Speaker 4: the mount mountain of the God's heart Elohem you've got
Speaker 4: the mountain where Mohammad got his alleged revelation Jabelle al Nour. Again,
Speaker 4: that took place in a mountain. We think that mountain
Speaker 4: was actually in the vicinity of Petra in Jordan, but
Speaker 4: we need to do more research on that.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: And you know, you've got the mountains of Ararat, Renoah's
Speaker 4: art came down, and the artificial mountain of Babel, which
Speaker 4: was an attempt to build an abode of the gods.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it seemed like all of these connections to
Speaker 4: between the physical realm and the spirit realm revolve around
Speaker 4: a mountain. And of course the whole thing comes to
Speaker 4: a head at Armageddon, which is clumsy transliter transliteration from
Speaker 4: Hebrew into Greek and then back into English.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the harmorrgade.
Speaker 1: Yes, I probably bitched my southern Maxiam.
Speaker 4: But I remember I don't speak Hebrew either, so.
Speaker 2: Gabe ed.
Speaker 4: But in the middle of that ed is a glottal stop.
Speaker 4: This is a character in Hebrew called aen. It looks
Speaker 4: like a reverse apostrophe, but there's no corresponding sound or
Speaker 4: letter in Greek or in English. So when John tried
Speaker 4: to write heart mo ed, which means mount of Assembly,
Speaker 4: like in Isaiah fourteen. You know, the rebel wants to
Speaker 4: build his create his Mount of Assembly or Mount of
Speaker 4: the Congregation, on the heights of Mount Zephon. The Mount
Speaker 4: of Assembly is where the final battle will be fought.
Speaker 4: And John wrote it he took the closest character he
Speaker 4: could find in Greek to the allen, which is gamma.
Speaker 4: And so then English speakers translating the Greek Book of
Speaker 4: Revelation into English said Gama, okay, that must be the
Speaker 4: Hebrew character gimmel, which means it's hard, Maggie, don ah.
Speaker 4: The final battle will be fought at Megido, which is
Speaker 4: fifty miles away from Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: And it's a valley, ain't it or a plain valley.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the other problem. There's no mountain.
Speaker 2: Where's the mountain? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So no, the Mount of Assembly is God's holy Mountain, Zion,
Speaker 4: the Temple mount. So and that eliminates the conflicts. Like
Speaker 4: if the final battles at Megido, why is Jesus and
Speaker 4: Zechariah fourteen land on the Mount of Olives, which is
Speaker 4: like right across the valley from the temple mount. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Now the battle's fifty miles away. It was a bad
Speaker 4: transliteration from Hebrew to Greek to English, and a scholar
Speaker 4: by the name of Charles Tory solved this back in
Speaker 4: the nineteen thirties. And yet you still have very respected
Speaker 4: prophecy teachers trying to teach us today that the final
Speaker 4: battle will be fought at Megido. No it will not.
Speaker 4: It'll be fought at Jerusalem, just where Zecharai and Joel
Speaker 4: and John put it crazy.
Speaker 3: I got one random question. Sorry. You were talking about
Speaker 3: where Noah's art came to rest I'm Mount air At.
Speaker 3: I was wondering if you ever looked at Ron Wyatt's work,
Speaker 3: and do you believe that that potentially was a site
Speaker 3: where the arc actually landed or came to rest or.
Speaker 4: I really haven't looked at what Ron Wyatt did specifically
Speaker 4: about the arc. A friend of ours, Aaron Judkins, was
Speaker 4: part of that documentary a few years ago called Finding Noah,
Speaker 4: and they climbed up there and they were having some
Speaker 4: stuff done, some stuff tested, and I don't know what
Speaker 4: the results of the tests were, So I don't know
Speaker 4: what I find really compelling. And I kind of draw
Speaker 4: on some of jud Burton's research for the Second Coming
Speaker 4: of Saturn. To bolster some other research I've done, I
Speaker 4: think this whole practice of summoning spirits from the nether world,
Speaker 4: which is all throughout the Bible, continues to this very day,
Speaker 4: can be traced back archaeologically to the er Orrat plane
Speaker 4: in the middle of the fifth millennium BC. I mean,
Speaker 4: this is long before writing was invented. Writing was invented.
Speaker 4: The earliest we've discovered anyway, dates to about thirty one
Speaker 4: hundred BC, just after the collapse of the Uruk civilization,
Speaker 4: in other words, the fall of Babbel. Yeah, but there's
Speaker 4: a civilization called the Kura Eraxis civilization ku r a
Speaker 4: dash ar ax e s and those are the names
Speaker 4: of the two mountains that run on either side of
Speaker 4: the Caucasus Mountains. And the civilization can be traced very
Speaker 4: accurately because they made a unique style of pottery, unique coloring,
Speaker 4: unique type of burnishing or whatever. I'm not an expert
Speaker 4: in pottery, but I'll trust the experts who say they
Speaker 4: can trace that civilization to this place the middle of
Speaker 4: this about forty five hundred BC. And from there they
Speaker 4: spread out and around the outer edge of the Fertile
Speaker 4: Crescent down into the Holy Land and just within the
Speaker 4: last twenty years a husband and wife. Archaeologists from UCLA
Speaker 4: identified them as the biblical Hortes the Hurrians, and found
Speaker 4: their necromantic ritual pit at a site in northern Syria
Speaker 4: called Urkesh, which was known as the home of their
Speaker 4: chief god, Kumarbi. Well, Kumarbi is Saturn, Chronos, bail, Jiman,
Speaker 4: el Dagon, Molek, same god by different names. But key
Speaker 4: part of the worship is this big pit where you'd
Speaker 4: have to dig. You'd go down into this pit, which
Speaker 4: I think when it was first dug they estimate down
Speaker 4: to about forty feet. They could only get down about
Speaker 4: twenty five feet because they were concerned about the stability
Speaker 4: of the walls. You would sacrifice a small animal like
Speaker 4: a piglet or a lamb or a puppy, and then
Speaker 4: you would describe a magic circle on the floor and
Speaker 4: summon these entities from the nether world. This is going
Speaker 4: back to probably thirty five hundred BC, and the practice
Speaker 4: continued into the Biblical period when Saul visited the owner
Speaker 4: of a ritual pit at endoor a threshing floor, and
Speaker 4: you've got the threshing floor which is another type of
Speaker 4: In fact, it was just reading a paper yesterday, in fact,
Speaker 4: on the idea of the threshing floor as a point
Speaker 4: of contact between this realm and the next. So you've
Speaker 4: got the threshing floor as a high place between this
Speaker 4: world and next. But then you've also got the ritual pit.
Speaker 4: And jud Burton's research not only then connects that that
Speaker 4: same region where these people who seem to have invented
Speaker 4: this practice of digging a pit and summoning spirits from
Speaker 4: another world, to the origin of the word be fayeen.
Speaker 4: He basically connected it to other similar words in Eurasian languages,
Speaker 4: like the R followed by a vowel seems to be
Speaker 4: a common term for well say, royalty, rex regal, and repayem.
Speaker 4: And he said that by tracing these the the phonemes,
Speaker 4: the little pieces of language back as far as you go,
Speaker 4: you find that it originates between the Black Sea and
Speaker 4: the Caucus of Sea. Well, guess what, that's the same
Speaker 4: region that the Hurrians come from. The Hortes, the Ararat plane,
Speaker 4: the land below the mountains where Noah's ark, somewhere where
Speaker 4: Noah's Ark came to rest. The people who were on
Speaker 4: the Ark came down. Stories were told apparently about these
Speaker 4: old gods who once walked among us, but then they
Speaker 4: were punished and sent down to the nether world. We
Speaker 4: have to summon them and bring them back up. Well. Interestingly,
Speaker 4: the Tower of Babel, if David Roll is correct the
Speaker 4: egyptologist I mentioned earlier, and I think he is, that
Speaker 4: the Tower of Babel was actually the temple of the
Speaker 4: god en Key at the city of Eridu. Yes, and
Speaker 4: that was the Absu, the house of the Abyss. I
Speaker 4: think that that was an attempt to try to reconnect
Speaker 4: and make connection again, not with gods from above, but
Speaker 4: the gods from below, the Absu, the Abyss.
Speaker 1: And it had to be something bigger than just a
Speaker 1: t uxtra for God to intervene. That's one thing I
Speaker 1: always thought was striking when you try to talk to
Speaker 1: some people about that and they're like, no, they just
Speaker 1: thought they could build a tall building. I have, and
Speaker 1: it's like, we got tall buildings now and God ain't
Speaker 1: knocked them down.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's the purpose of the stargag that they were trying
Speaker 1: to let these guys back out again. And I can
Speaker 1: tell you because I was in the military and I
Speaker 1: did two tours in Iraq and we drove past where
Speaker 1: they said the Tower Babble was, and there's some.
Speaker 2: Creepy vibes out there.
Speaker 4: I'm wondered about that. I'm wondered about that. In fact,
Speaker 4: started writing a story at some point years ago based
Speaker 4: on that, but I didn't have enough experience, knowledge or
Speaker 4: theology at that point to try to try to make
Speaker 4: it up. But did you ever did you ever see
Speaker 4: that the Great zigguratte of Er If.
Speaker 2: I did, I wouldn't know what I was looking at.
Speaker 3: I do got one question, kind of follow up to
Speaker 3: what you just said. And when we we've speculated a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of times, and we talk about and you
Speaker 3: just brought up the Refieme, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 3: But when we're talking about, you know, the the giants
Speaker 3: showing up again after the flood, and I know that's
Speaker 3: one of the big questions, one of the million dollar questions,
Speaker 3: is how did they show back up after you know,
Speaker 3: God was sent to wipe them out. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that I've been thinking about is, you know,
Speaker 3: these temples they've made so that an earthly being could
Speaker 3: reach out and be with a God, and you know,
Speaker 3: have intercourse with the god, and is that a possible
Speaker 3: way of how those giants came back? Is there was
Speaker 3: there some truth to that? Were they actually like, like,
Speaker 3: who was it that we just talked about it yesterday.
Speaker 1: With the king Ogg's bad how the measurements are red
Speaker 1: somewhere that the raiders when they read that, it struck
Speaker 1: a light bulb to him that you know, when they
Speaker 1: were in captivity in Babylon, that there was a bed
Speaker 1: like that, and it was a sexual right bed where
Speaker 1: they would have the gods embody them and then they
Speaker 1: would pro create trying to make the nephlum again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a a really fascinating discovery. From the
Speaker 4: temple of Marduk, the chief got a Babylon within the
Speaker 4: last couple of decades. They found that there was an
Speaker 4: inscription that described the size of that bed, and it
Speaker 4: matches exactly four cubans by six cubits the size of
Speaker 4: OG's bed. So it appears that the reason Moses mentions
Speaker 4: the size of OG's bed in Deuteronomy is not that
Speaker 4: Og was what sixteenth yeah, like thirteen feet tall, it's
Speaker 4: just the set he's connecting Og, who was an Amori
Speaker 4: king in the last of the remnant of the refaim
Speaker 4: to the Amorite kingdom of Babylon. The Amorites founded Babylon.
Speaker 4: There is no ethnicity called Babylonian. That'd be like calling
Speaker 4: me a Chicagoite because I was born there. You know. No,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm German, Swedish, English, Welsh and a bunch
Speaker 4: of other things. But that was the reason for the link.
Speaker 4: Og was part of that occult system founded by the Amorites,
Speaker 4: the occult system of Babylon. How did they come back again?
Speaker 4: That's a good question, and let me I could do
Speaker 4: an entire presentation on this. I think. First of all,
Speaker 4: the short answer is it's possible there was a second incursion,
Speaker 4: as doctor Heizer points out in Genesis six, where it
Speaker 4: says the giant giants were in the earth or the
Speaker 4: Nephelie more on the earth in those days after that
Speaker 4: when the sons of God went into the daughters of men.
Speaker 4: The word translated when can also mean whenever, so this
Speaker 4: may not have been just a one shot deal. Secondly, though,
Speaker 4: is I'm not sure that the giants of the Old
Speaker 4: Testament were as big as some would like them to be.
Speaker 4: And there's a couple of reasons for that. First of all,
Speaker 4: the oldest Hebrew texts about Goliath, for example, do not
Speaker 4: make him six cubits in a span, hits four cubits
Speaker 4: in a span. That's a difference between say, six cubits
Speaker 4: in a span is like nine foot nine inches. Four
Speaker 4: in a span is six foot nine. Now that's still
Speaker 4: really big because the average Israelite, now I look this up,
Speaker 4: the average Israelite in the Tame of Time of David
Speaker 4: and Goliath is about five foot four. So, you know,
Speaker 4: imagine going up against a guy who's like seven foot
Speaker 4: and has been trained as a warrior since he was
Speaker 4: a youth. When you read that account between the confrontation
Speaker 4: between David and Goliath, Saul didn't say, David, don't go
Speaker 4: he's like nine feet tall, are you crazy? No, he's
Speaker 4: like he has been a warrior since his youth. He's
Speaker 4: a trained warrior, and you're just a shepherd kid. So yeah,
Speaker 4: he's also really big. He's six foot nine, but it's
Speaker 4: not like he's thirteen feet tall or whatever.
Speaker 1: And they're no different than us too, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like if if one of us, you know which I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm six foot tall, but if I was to walk
Speaker 1: up the Shaquille O'Neill, right, he's a giant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But here's the other thing that was really interesting
Speaker 4: as we were digging into this, like, Okay, what is
Speaker 4: the deal with the Refaem? Who are the on Achem?
Speaker 4: What is the deal with these things? And why were
Speaker 4: they so important for God to have the Israelites wipe
Speaker 4: them out? Because it's clear that og of Bashan, who
Speaker 4: is the last of the remnant of the Refayem, had
Speaker 4: to be the first military target. God had them walk
Speaker 4: all the way north to Bashan, which when you're you're
Speaker 4: making maybe five miles a day, which is about all
Speaker 4: you'd get when you've got flocks and herds and nitty
Speaker 4: fed and water, and you've got elderly people and you
Speaker 4: got little kids, and you're not like an army on
Speaker 4: the march where you're gonna make like fifteen or twenty
Speaker 4: miles a day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta go to the bathroom, daddy, are Yet it's.
Speaker 4: It's like two months extra to your journey just to
Speaker 4: go there and take out this one guy. And that
Speaker 4: doesn't count the time it took to you know, fight
Speaker 4: the army of Sahon of Heshton on the way. So
Speaker 4: then they did that, and they come back across. Then
Speaker 4: you cross over. And then when you read the summary
Speaker 4: of Joshua's war of conquest, it's clear that it was
Speaker 4: against the on Akeem, the on akeem or the target.
Speaker 4: What was the deal with those guys? And then and
Speaker 4: of course the summary is that only in in in
Speaker 4: Gaza and Ashdod did some remain. Well, okay, that's where,
Speaker 4: that's where and Gath because that's where Goliath and his
Speaker 4: buddies were from. But in Second Samuel twenty one, now anyway,
Speaker 4: the chapter where David is getting older and he almost
Speaker 4: gets taken out by some of the Philistine giants. There
Speaker 4: we go Second Samuel twenty one. It was war against
Speaker 4: the Philistines and Israel. David went out and Ishbi Benab
Speaker 4: one of the descendants of the giants, who spear weighed
Speaker 4: three hundred shekels of bronze, etc. And there are a
Speaker 4: couple of other guys who Sibeki the Hushethite, struck down
Speaker 4: saff who is one of the descendants of the giants.
Speaker 4: And that's pointed to his evidence that to see the
Speaker 4: nepheline we're still in the land in the time of David.
Speaker 4: The thing is this, The word translated descendant in Second
Speaker 4: Samuel twenty one is not ben or benet, which later
Speaker 4: means blood descendant of it's yellow day, yellow day. The
Speaker 4: phrase is yellow day hot rapha descendant of the rapha,
Speaker 4: except that it doesn't mean blood descended. It means one
Speaker 4: who is a member of a group into which one
Speaker 4: is con secreted or initiated. There's a very interesting paper
Speaker 4: written by a guy named Conrad LaRue, a well known
Speaker 4: scholar of the ancient Near East. And again, because it
Speaker 4: doesn't fit the narrative, a lot of folks just kind
Speaker 4: of that that doesn't mean what it means when you
Speaker 4: look up that phrase in the Old Testament, which we
Speaker 4: can do now thanks to Bible software. We don't have
Speaker 4: to do it the hard way like scholars years ago
Speaker 4: had to do, actually searching through you know, dictionaries and
Speaker 4: with paper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, logos has a spoiled it truly does.
Speaker 4: But it also means we don't have any excuses anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the phrase is never ever used of a literal genetic
Speaker 4: blood descendant, but the fact that it means one who
Speaker 4: is a member of a group into which one is
Speaker 4: consecrated or initiated. I think is even more interesting because
Speaker 4: hot rafa, well rafa, that's the singular form of refaeme.
Speaker 4: And here's the other thing. A credit to Brian Goadala
Speaker 4: for pointing this out in his oh, his novel in
Speaker 4: the Chronicles of Nepheline David David Victorious. I'm sorry, Brian,
Speaker 4: I've forgotten the title, but it's the novel about David
Speaker 4: ishb Benob okay an odd name, all right in Hebrew,
Speaker 4: pronounced to benov ben ov the ben ob you know,
Speaker 4: they'll try to translate that word and not recognize that
Speaker 4: it's actually two words. It's not ben ob, it's ben
Speaker 4: ov Ov is the Hebrew word translated medium. It's actually
Speaker 4: the word that means the necromantic ritual pit that I
Speaker 4: was talking about before, that the Canaanites got from the Hurrians.
Speaker 4: The ho rightes this practice of summoning gods from the
Speaker 4: nether world, which is exactly what the O of Endoor,
Speaker 4: the medium of Endor did. Saul came to visit her
Speaker 4: the night before he was killed by the Philistines. Samuel
Speaker 4: came up from the earth, which freaked her out. Because
Speaker 4: she was expecting her familiar spirit, not Samuel. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: Ishbi is the son of a medium, probably engaged in
Speaker 4: this cult of venerating the Refae, which we know exists now.
Speaker 4: It's only been a knowledge and recognized by scholars for
Speaker 4: about the last forty years. So what you got here
Speaker 4: in Goliath and his Colleagues among the Philistines is an
Speaker 4: elite warrior cult that worships the demonic spirits of the Refiem.
Speaker 4: They were probably like the ancient world's equivalent of the
Speaker 4: Viking burserkers.
Speaker 1: Right. And that's a good segue because my next thing
Speaker 1: I was going to mentionin was your book veneration, and
Speaker 1: it goes all into that.
Speaker 2: You know, explain what that term you.
Speaker 1: Know means, you know, and how in your book you
Speaker 1: talk about how they practiced that and on about the
Speaker 1: ref eying fallen angels underworld. You know, the whole even
Speaker 1: relates to Psalms twenty two, you know, the the ulves
Speaker 1: of the Sean, the travelers and all that. Could you
Speaker 1: go in a little bit more detail with that, like
Speaker 1: talk about what they would do there and the rights
Speaker 1: and the traveling.
Speaker 4: And I want to make clear to you to your
Speaker 4: listeners that when I get passionate here, it's not getting angry.
Speaker 4: I'm just getting excited about this information. So if you
Speaker 4: can't see my face and realize I'm not I'm not
Speaker 4: getting angry about this. I'm just excited about it. Veneration
Speaker 4: is just a word that means worship. And we had
Speaker 4: originally put forward the idea of calling the book profiling
Speaker 4: the Dead, but Tom Horn it always comes up with
Speaker 4: better titles, said, not up veneration. Yeah, okay. And then
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Martis, who did the cover art, came up with
Speaker 4: something that looked like Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, that was pretty wicked. Kever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Jeffrey is our secret weapon. He's awesome. This
Speaker 4: was a cult that this cult of the Refaem and
Speaker 4: Refaem in the Bible has used two separate ways. First,
Speaker 4: in the time of Abraham, the Refaiem tribes occupied the
Speaker 4: area east of the Jordan River, so what later became
Speaker 4: the kingdom of og of Bashan. The kingdom was Ammon,
Speaker 4: Moab and edom those kingdoms that were always at war
Speaker 4: with Israel east of the Jordan River. But the Ammonites,
Speaker 4: the Moabites, and the Edomites came along following the time
Speaker 4: of Jacob and Esau, and they basically cleared those Refaem
Speaker 4: tribes out, which is why Og in the time of
Speaker 4: Moses was the last of the remnant of the Refaem
Speaker 4: by the time of Moses. After Moses, the Refaem was
Speaker 4: the term applied to the spirits of the mighty men
Speaker 4: who were of old. This is kind of translated out
Speaker 4: of our English Bibles, because the word is there in
Speaker 4: the Hebrew, but it's usually translated as the dead or
Speaker 4: the departed, or the deceased or the shades, and so
Speaker 4: we missed the context. And again it's only because it's
Speaker 4: only since about nineteen eighty or so that scholars have
Speaker 4: recognized the importance of the Refaem to the cults the
Speaker 4: religious beliefs of the people around ancient Israel. The Amorites
Speaker 4: who really dominated the lands of the Bible, from Babylon
Speaker 4: to Antioch to northern Egypt, basically everything that today is Syria, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon,
Speaker 4: northern Egypt, southern Turkey was under the control of Amorites
Speaker 4: from about the time of Abraham roughly two thousand BC
Speaker 4: down to about the time of the Exodus. It's around
Speaker 4: fourteen forty six BC. That was basically that was the
Speaker 4: age of the Amorites. And after that they started calling
Speaker 4: themselves or being called Phoenicians, so they didn't go away,
Speaker 4: they just picked up a different name. And the Carthaginians
Speaker 4: of the time of Rome, you know, Hannibal was he
Speaker 4: was basically an Amorite, just in a more modern era.
Speaker 4: They had a monthly practice where they believed that if
Speaker 4: they didn't summon their ancestors by name their dead ancestors
Speaker 4: on the night of no moon every month on the
Speaker 4: thirtieth of the month, and then feed them through a ritual,
Speaker 4: their ancestors would cease to exist. This was called the
Speaker 4: Kiss them. This was a central part of Amorite religion.
Speaker 4: You had to take care of your dead ancestors. If
Speaker 4: you didn't, they ceased to be or they would get
Speaker 4: angry and perhaps come back and make your life a
Speaker 4: living hell.
Speaker 2: And even Abraham was worried about this.
Speaker 4: Well, this seems to me to be yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: this makes sense of Abraham's distress and not having an air.
Speaker 4: I mean he didn't have a an air to keep
Speaker 4: his name in remembrance, and so all right, I've got
Speaker 4: elias Are, who's uh, yeah, yeah. But what's interesting is
Speaker 4: that a scholar by the name of Nicholas Wyatt, who's
Speaker 4: I've read a lot of his stuff because he's again
Speaker 4: just a wonderful research, wonderful scholar, professor emeritus from the
Speaker 4: University of Edinburgh. He'd be a rock star for you
Speaker 4: know me. You know, can I give your autographs? Sir?
Speaker 4: He He argues that elias Are is not of Damascus. Okay,
Speaker 4: that elias Are. That there was a what what they
Speaker 4: call a scribal gloss in a later manuscript described translating
Speaker 4: or rather copying the older texts, you know, to preserve
Speaker 4: it didn't understand what a certain phraseman and so changed
Speaker 4: it changed to to hot domissec, which is the Damascus. Uh.
Speaker 4: Changed the term, which actually is uh, let's see beneme
Speaker 4: messek into bene ha damask or something like that. Anyway,
Speaker 4: it would really help if I could read or speak Hebrew.
Speaker 4: The point is that the original text, according to doctor Wyatt,
Speaker 4: probably read because of the Abraham saying, and I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 4: I don't have an air. So Eliezar is the son
Speaker 4: of the cup, is my son of the cup. Now
Speaker 4: what does that mean. The ritual that the Amirites had
Speaker 4: to perform every month involved the oldest son of the family,
Speaker 4: the heir to the family fortune, performing this ritual every
Speaker 4: month on the thirtieth night of the month. You know,
Speaker 4: no moon, darkest night, the vallessnitist. You got to summon
Speaker 4: all the dead ancestors to the ritual meal, summon them
Speaker 4: by name. You take the tarrafeme. Those are those household
Speaker 4: idols that Jacob's wife Rachel stole from her father. Laban
Speaker 4: them by smearing bread on the face of the statues.
Speaker 4: That's how you would feed the ancestors. And then you
Speaker 4: would pour out a drink offering. You would pour out
Speaker 4: a libation on the floor. And in many Abelright homes,
Speaker 4: the dead were buried under the floor of the house.
Speaker 4: And in many cases they found them with the libation
Speaker 4: tubes leading right down to the corpse, so that they
Speaker 4: would get the drink, the beer, the wine, the water.
Speaker 1: So they took the ones for the homies literal, you know,
Speaker 1: this one's for the homies.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, exactly right, that is exactly right. And
Speaker 4: they would pour it out. And so yet he was
Speaker 4: the son of the cup, and that's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: so now we understand why Abraham was so stressed. But
Speaker 4: this continued down to the time of David. You're reading
Speaker 4: Second Samuel eighteen eighteen where David's son Absalom erected a
Speaker 4: pillar for himself in the valley of the Kings, for
Speaker 4: he had no son to keep his name in remembrance.
Speaker 4: I never noticed that pillar with his name on it,
Speaker 4: so people could say, oh, yes, Absalom, yes we'll remember
Speaker 4: him on that. And that was the That was part
Speaker 4: of the deal. This is known from other similar cultures
Speaker 4: around Ansient Israel. This is what those were for zones.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: But I mean, you know if if it only it
Speaker 4: only matters if you actually use it in a rich way.
Speaker 1: Hispanics still do that today, like phone Halloween, you.
Speaker 4: Know the dead right, Yeah, absolutely, but think about this.
Speaker 4: I mean, we had for a couple of summers here
Speaker 4: in the United States these protests by these groups that
Speaker 4: were out on the streets saying say their name, yeah,
Speaker 4: and you'd repeat the name, and after every name you'd
Speaker 4: say ah sha. Well that's from the Yoruba religion from Nigeria.
Speaker 4: And I did a presentation on this and it got it,
Speaker 4: got a it got a conference pulled offline completely, even
Speaker 4: though I shared the video of the lady who was saying, yes,
Speaker 4: we understand, we're summoning the dead. You can't say that though,
Speaker 4: So even if they say it and you show them
Speaker 4: saying it, you still can't put that out in public, apparently.
Speaker 4: But that's when they're done. We're they're done with that.
Speaker 4: That say the name Ashah and then they pour out
Speaker 4: a libation. It is exactly what the Amorites were doing
Speaker 4: more than four thousand years ago to summon their ancestors,
Speaker 4: and this was the culture that produced Abraham, Isaac, Jacob Moses.
Speaker 4: We're convinced now, and this is what's leading to our
Speaker 4: next book, The The Gates of Hell, that this is
Speaker 4: what led to the destruction of Sodom. We've interviewed the
Speaker 4: lead archaeologist who's excavating a site in northeast of the
Speaker 4: Dead Sea that not only was the site of ancient Sodom,
Speaker 4: it is the location of the tightest concentration of dolmans
Speaker 4: in the Jordan River Valley, which are those megalithic funerary
Speaker 4: monuments that looked like big tables made of slabs of limestone.
Speaker 4: They were all oriented towards what was the temple in
Speaker 4: ancient Sodom, And we're not sure yet because they've not
Speaker 4: found any inscriptions who or what was worshiped in this temple,
Speaker 4: but we think it was bail Peor, and Peor in
Speaker 4: Hebrew is a word that comes from a route that
Speaker 4: means opening or gap or cleft, like opening to the
Speaker 4: nether world. In other words, bail Peor is lord of
Speaker 4: the gates of Hell, hence the title of the book
Speaker 4: we're working on. But yeah, it's this idea of veneration
Speaker 4: of the dead, the worship of the dead by the
Speaker 4: people around ancient Israel, and the fact that the Israelites
Speaker 4: were drawn into it is really astonishing. As early as
Speaker 4: the nineteen thirties or scholars has said, well, you know
Speaker 4: this place where Moses in the Israelites camped Shittim, which
Speaker 4: means thorns or Acacia's was probably this ruined city on
Speaker 4: the hill that doctor Stephen Collins and his team have identified,
Speaker 4: if I think definitively now as Sodom. I mean Moses
Speaker 4: and the Israelites camped on the site of ancient Sodom
Speaker 4: probably and then began worshiping bail peor Lord of the
Speaker 4: entrance to the nether world as like, okay, so God
Speaker 4: destroyed the Tower of Babel because people were trying to
Speaker 4: reconnect with this old Entiti Chemiaza, who commingled with humanity,
Speaker 4: taught us stuff we weren't supposed to know. And oh, Yes,
Speaker 4: created the Nephelim, whose spirits, the spirits of the giants
Speaker 4: destroyed in the flood, were demons who were being worshiped
Speaker 4: by the neighbors of ancient Israel. Then destroys the city
Speaker 4: of Sodom. Then Moses and the Israelites come and they
Speaker 4: start worshiping this God, and then God sends a plague
Speaker 4: that kills twenty four thousand Israelites. Psalm six twenty eight
Speaker 4: says the reason God was angry and sent that plague
Speaker 4: because they worshiped bail Pear was because they began eating
Speaker 4: sacrifices offered to the dead. So this this all fits together,
Speaker 4: and again this connects back to Jesus in his own ministry.
Speaker 4: When we talk about Jesus overcoming death, he's not speaking
Speaker 4: metaphorically or figuratively. It's a literal war. And this relates
Speaker 4: to not just his h where he chose to ask Peter,
Speaker 4: who do you say that I am? Which was at
Speaker 4: the base of Mount Hermond, in front of the Grotto
Speaker 4: of Pan, the cave that was believed to be the
Speaker 4: entrance to the nether world, at the base of the
Speaker 4: mountain where the god el who I argue in Second
Speaker 4: Coming of Saturn is Chemiaza. It begins with where Jesus
Speaker 4: chose to be baptized.
Speaker 1: You want you want to give us a taser on that.
Speaker 4: I know it means in discovery, drink a war.
Speaker 2: Give Eric Ali.
Speaker 4: Yes, my own libation poured down my throat. This is
Speaker 4: something I stumbled onto. Well, no, I'll give the Lord credit.
Speaker 4: He kind of led me to this, and not because
Speaker 4: I'm so smart or anything. Just it's like, look, if
Speaker 4: you're going to keep talking about this stuff, let me
Speaker 4: at least clear up some of your ideas. I was
Speaker 4: reading a paper by a German scholar and it was
Speaker 4: about and to me it seemed unconnected. But sometimes well again,
Speaker 4: it's got to be the nudging of the Holy Spirit
Speaker 4: or some you know, deputy angel who's in charge of
Speaker 4: kind of prodding me, you know, in the right direction
Speaker 4: on the location of the place where John the Baptist
Speaker 4: was doing his work, and scholars for the last two
Speaker 4: thousand years Christians have been trying to find the place
Speaker 4: where John was baptizing, the place where Jesus was baptized.
Speaker 4: John Chapter one, beginning of verse nineteen, John the Apostle writes,
Speaker 4: this is the testimony of John. When the Jews sent
Speaker 4: priests and levites from Jerusalem to ask him, who are you?
Speaker 4: He confessed and did not deny, but confessed, I am
Speaker 4: not the Christ. And they asked him, what then are you, Elijah?
Speaker 4: He said, I am not. Are you the Well, Okay,
Speaker 4: you've heard the story. He basically says, he's the voice
Speaker 4: of one crying out in the wilderness, makes straight the
Speaker 4: way of the Lord, as the prophet Isaiah has said.
Speaker 4: Verse twenty eight is the money quote. These things took
Speaker 4: place in Bethany, across the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Speaker 4: Now across the Jordan is the key phrase that means
Speaker 4: east of the Jordan River. The only Bethany that anyone
Speaker 4: has ever heard of in the Holy Land is on
Speaker 4: the Mount of Olives, which is quite a ways west
Speaker 4: of the Jordan River. So it's not that Bethany it's Bethany,
Speaker 4: some other Bethany. As early as the second century, the
Speaker 4: early church father Origin tried to find it, said, nobody
Speaker 4: here has heard any heard of any place named Bethany.
Speaker 4: We don't know where it is, so he came up
Speaker 4: with some other location. In the nineteenth century, an explorer
Speaker 4: for the Palestine Exploration Fund named Claude Conder, who was
Speaker 4: a colleague of Charles Warren's Warren he was the one
Speaker 4: who climbed the summit of Mount Hermont and found that
Speaker 4: stela inside the temple on the summit.
Speaker 2: Making that amazing Warren.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Conder was an associate of Charles Warren, and
Speaker 4: in eighteen seventy seven he said he thought he'd figured
Speaker 4: out where Bethany was the Greek manuscript, the Greek New
Speaker 4: Testament of John. In the Greek the word is Bethania. Bethania,
Speaker 4: he believed. And you can actually even find us now
Speaker 4: in the Faith Life Study Bible notes that it's probably
Speaker 4: a reference of to the Greek name Botania. Botania is
Speaker 4: the Greek form of Bashan. So unlike what we've been taught,
Speaker 4: unlike what we've been taught. And you know, even though
Speaker 4: the United Nations has declared a World Heritage Site in
Speaker 4: the south, down near Jericho. Okay, this is Bethany across
Speaker 4: the Jordan, which really ticked off the Palestinian authority because
Speaker 4: they wanted the tourists on their side of the river. No,
Speaker 4: it was north of the Sea of Galilee, but Shan
Speaker 4: across the Jordan. And I was like, well, okay, that
Speaker 4: makes sense because when you continue on in the Gospel
Speaker 4: of John. The next day, John was standing with two
Speaker 4: of his disciples, and he looked at Jesus as he
Speaker 4: walked by and said, behold the Lamb of God. So
Speaker 4: Jesus is right there. And then he begins. Jesus begins
Speaker 4: calling his disciples, and the first disciples he calls Philip, Nathaniel, Peter.
Speaker 4: They're all from Bethsaida, which is north of the Sea
Speaker 4: of Galilee. So why are we looking for Bethany down
Speaker 4: near Jericho when Jesus the next day is calling his
Speaker 4: disciples north of the Sea of Galilee. Here's the weather.
Speaker 1: It's really crazy too, man. I just thought of this,
Speaker 1: you know how you know, baptism, you know is spiritual
Speaker 1: warfare anyway, because these fallen angels are put in you know,
Speaker 1: the abyss the waters underneath, you know, and they're in
Speaker 1: prisoned there and they're denied resurrection, they're denied forgiveness. But us,
Speaker 1: when we die, we are lowered into shield, which you know,
Speaker 1: the abyss, the water. So therefore, when you're getting baptized,
Speaker 1: you're brought under the water, and but you are raised
Speaker 1: back up in Christ and it and for that to
Speaker 1: take place in Bashan, yeah, it's like a slap in
Speaker 1: the face.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, you get to watch.
Speaker 1: All these other you know, little meaningless humans that you
Speaker 1: tricked and deceived for all these years. You don't get
Speaker 1: to see them resurrect and you just have to watch
Speaker 1: and you're denied.
Speaker 4: Well exactly. And Peter even mentions that first Peter three
Speaker 4: where Jesus goes down and proclaims to the spirits in prison.
Speaker 4: But when you look at Bashan, you that region between
Speaker 4: the Sea of Galilee and Mount Hermont. Excuse me, it
Speaker 4: is ancient Bashan, and it is covered with dolmens, just
Speaker 4: like those the areas around the base of ancient Sodom,
Speaker 4: you know, these funerary monuments for the cult of the Dead.
Speaker 4: I've done an entire presentation on this In fact, I'm
Speaker 4: going to go into this for the SkyWatch TV virtual
Speaker 4: conference coming up in November. You look at a map
Speaker 4: of the Dolman sites in Bashan, and there are so
Speaker 4: many clustered so close together, just north of the Sea
Speaker 4: of Galilee, in this area around Bethsaida and the region
Speaker 4: between there and the Hula marsh it is. It's a
Speaker 4: giant necropolis. It literally is a giant necropolis. One Israeli
Speaker 4: archaeologist says, you can no longer use the term Dolman
Speaker 4: field because we can't tell where one ends and the
Speaker 4: next one begins. They're just all over the place. There
Speaker 4: are twenty five thousand Dolmens in the Jordan Valley and
Speaker 4: on the Golan Heights. I mean, they're all over the
Speaker 4: They're all over the earth, but there are more of
Speaker 4: them in Israel, closer together than anywhere else on earth.
Speaker 1: And that legion with red dots, I mean, it was
Speaker 1: crazy how clustered they were.
Speaker 4: Right. Well, here's the thing, Matthew in Matthew chapter four
Speaker 4: kind of puts the pieces together here. Of course, we
Speaker 4: know that after Jesus was baptized, he gets taken out
Speaker 4: and tempted by Satan, Matthew four, verse eight. The devil
Speaker 4: took him to a very high mountain, where would that
Speaker 4: be anywhere near Israel, now Mount Herman, and showed him
Speaker 4: all the kings in the world and all their glory,
Speaker 4: and said, all these kingdoms I will give to you
Speaker 4: if you will fall down and worship me. And of
Speaker 4: course Jesus says, begone, Satan. But then on verse twelve
Speaker 4: of Matthew four, Jesus begins his ministry at quoting now now,
Speaker 4: when he heard that John had been arrested, Jesus withdrew
Speaker 4: into Galilee, and leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in
Speaker 4: Capernaum by the sea. Capernaum is near beth Side. It's
Speaker 4: on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee, very
Speaker 4: close to where the Jordan comes into the sea, in
Speaker 4: the territory of Zebulan. Enough Tali so that what was
Speaker 4: spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled. The land
Speaker 4: of Zebulun and the land of Naftali. The way of
Speaker 4: the sea, that's the Roman road, the Via Marus that
Speaker 4: runs from Egypt up alongside of the Sea of Galilee
Speaker 4: through Tiberius and then continues on to Damascus.
Speaker 1: The One God told these are lots to avoid lace.
Speaker 1: They turn back in fear right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the way of the sea in the territory of
Speaker 4: Zebulan enough Tali, so that what was spoken by the
Speaker 4: prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled. The land of Zebulun and
Speaker 4: the land of enough Tali, the way of the sea
Speaker 4: beyond the Jordan again east of the Jordan Galilee of
Speaker 4: the Gentiles money quote. The people dwelling in darkness have
Speaker 4: seen a great light. And for those dwelling in the
Speaker 4: region and the shadow of death on them, a light
Speaker 4: has dawned. Jesus moving to that region of Bashan fulfilled
Speaker 4: the prophecy of Isaiah. Those dwell in the region and
Speaker 4: the shadow of death on them, a light has gone.
Speaker 4: Now think about this. Is that area the Jordan River
Speaker 4: valley between Mount Hermon and the Sea of Galilee. Is
Speaker 4: that the valley of the shadow of Death?
Speaker 2: Yes, that is amazing, with.
Speaker 4: Dolmans all through it. And these dolmans again look like
Speaker 4: massive tables, two massive slabs of limestone with a tabletop
Speaker 4: across the top. What does Jesus do for us, our
Speaker 4: good shepherd, in the valley of the shadow of Death?
Speaker 4: He prepares a table for me in the presence of
Speaker 4: my enemies, like oh yeah, credit to Charon for that one.
Speaker 4: That was so this is literal. This is a literal
Speaker 4: war against the dead and again those who created the dead,
Speaker 4: the sons of God, who Jesus proclaimed victory over when
Speaker 4: he descended to the to the prisoners, to the abyss
Speaker 4: after his crucifixion.
Speaker 3: I have over this over again just so it blows
Speaker 3: my I'm just it's it's.
Speaker 2: My face and I'm smiling so much.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I mean is it Isn't this exciting? I mean,
Speaker 4: oh my, oh.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeap.
Speaker 1: Moments like that is why I do this.
Speaker 2: It's like, thank you.
Speaker 4: God, Wow, that is that's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys got anything that you had.
Speaker 1: I know you're getting short on time, Derek, but one
Speaker 1: last thing, Uh, the day the earth stands still. I
Speaker 1: think that is so relevant right now with all the
Speaker 1: UFO phenomena. Uh, your take on all this UFO stuff
Speaker 1: that we're seeing now the government's all of a sudden
Speaker 1: telling us all about it, you know, and exposure disclosing
Speaker 1: all this stuff, or what are we getting prepared or
Speaker 1: prepped for here?
Speaker 4: In your opinion, Well, the enemy is throwing as many
Speaker 4: deceptions us as they can. They don't care what we
Speaker 4: believe as long as is not the one thing that's true.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think that they're trying to put together
Speaker 4: a scientific deception to convince those who are looking for
Speaker 4: a star trek future that our space brothers are just
Speaker 4: about here and they're finally going to reveal themselves to
Speaker 4: us and help us evolve or transcend or whatever. I mean.
Speaker 4: If we believe that our ancestors, that the god or
Speaker 4: the gods are ancestors, we're simply just aliens with more
Speaker 4: advanced toys, well then we can develop those toys and
Speaker 4: we can become just like them. Ye shall be as gods.
Speaker 4: It's really all it is. It's the same trick, same trick,
Speaker 4: just played in a slightly different way. It's a variant
Speaker 4: of the transhumanist movement, really, this idea that we will
Speaker 4: somehow overcome death through technology. What people don't realize is
Speaker 4: that without unregenerate hearts, if we were to live for ever,
Speaker 4: this world would not be heaven on Earth. It would
Speaker 4: be hell on Earth.
Speaker 1: And I wondered if the whole transhuman you know, movement
Speaker 1: is what it is talking about in revelations when it
Speaker 1: says and they will seek death and want I'll find them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they'll get what they want, but it ain't gonna be
Speaker 1: what they thought it was.
Speaker 4: No, No. And what's really interesting though, is when they
Speaker 4: say they will seek death, just remember death thanatos is
Speaker 4: the rid on the pale Horse. We're not a state
Speaker 4: of being. You're talking about a literal entity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what we're dealing with is not extraterrestrial but
Speaker 1: extra dimensional.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's crazy, you know.
Speaker 1: And I always look back at the Ronald Reagan, you know,
Speaker 1: back it was nineteen eighty seven. He says, perhaps we
Speaker 1: need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this
Speaker 1: common bond. He said, I occasionally think how quickly our
Speaker 1: difference is worldwide would vanish if we were facing a
Speaker 1: threat from outside of this world. You know, I think
Speaker 1: it's all you know, leading to the great reset, new
Speaker 1: World order, smoking mirrors bring us all together, and you know,
Speaker 1: just like your latest book, you know, the returning of
Speaker 1: the Golden Age, who's going to argue of a lifetime
Speaker 1: of peace and everyone getting together and it's going to
Speaker 1: be all kum bay ah, come with us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, dawning with the age of Aquarius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, she's great.
Speaker 4: This is really what this is? Yeah, what the the
Speaker 4: the occultists and the adepts think that this is what
Speaker 4: is what. We're on the verge of the Great conjunction
Speaker 4: on the winter solstice back in twenty twenty, when Jupiter
Speaker 4: and Saturn met in the night sky. That signaled the
Speaker 4: full entry into age, the age of Aquarius, which is
Speaker 4: ruled by the planet Saturn. Who again, Saturn represents the
Speaker 4: h this old entity Chemiaza, the leader of that rebellion,
Speaker 4: who is promising a return to a golden age. But boy,
Speaker 4: it's not going to look that way when he comes
Speaker 4: out of the abyss in Revelation nine. No, we thankfully
Speaker 4: we don't have to be here for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm all for that. Yeah, we can watch from
Speaker 2: the sidelines.
Speaker 3: Well, Derek, I don't know if you'd like to tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit about where people can find your information,
Speaker 3: your books, SkyWatch TV, anything else.
Speaker 4: That you'd like to let us know. Well, I appreciate
Speaker 4: that I do the daily news updates for SkyWatch TV.
Speaker 4: Not really news updates, more like news commentary and analysis.
Speaker 4: It's basically just trying to put a biblical worldview on
Speaker 4: what's happening in the world around us, which, given what's
Speaker 4: happening in the world around us today, I mean this
Speaker 4: event earlier this week with the destruction of those nord
Speaker 4: Stream gas pipelines between Germany and Russia, I think that's
Speaker 4: really ominous. It just feels to me, and I could long.
Speaker 4: I'm certainly not an expert in geopolitics, but it just
Speaker 4: feels like we're creeping in incrementally closer to a world
Speaker 4: war here. So just pray that the cooler heads prevail.
Speaker 4: But yeah, you can find all of those updates at
Speaker 4: skywatchtv dot com. Sharon and I. All of our stuff
Speaker 4: is at Gilbertthhouse dot org. We've got a mobile app
Speaker 4: which gets all of our video content, our weekly programs
Speaker 4: Unraveling Revelation and sy Friday, my weekly podcast A View
Speaker 4: from the Bunker, and our audio Bible Study, plus our
Speaker 4: old podcast episodes. As I have time, I'm going back
Speaker 4: and uploading the old archives of A View from the
Speaker 4: Bunker and the PID Radio going back to two thousand
Speaker 4: and five, So lots and lots of I mean literally,
Speaker 4: we've got like a couple thousand hours worth of content
Speaker 4: out there in various places that we're trying to put
Speaker 4: into our mobile app, which is again it's available for
Speaker 4: free and linked at our website, Gilbertthhouse dot org where
Speaker 4: we have a store and you can get our books
Speaker 4: and videos there.
Speaker 1: And we look forward to seeing you, me and me
Speaker 1: and Steven got tickets to come up to the Spiritual
Speaker 1: Warfare conference.
Speaker 4: Oh great, look forward to that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we look forward to seeing you guys. And
Speaker 1: we're bringing you and sharing a shirt. So you got
Speaker 1: to let us know your shirt size, will get your shirt.
Speaker 4: Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just hope she starts feeling better. So and
Speaker 3: I'm glad you're run the.
Speaker 4: Men well appreciate that. Yeah, still got a few days yet,
Speaker 4: still hacking and coffing and so hopefully hopefully on the downside,
Speaker 4: a downhill side of this. But yeah, Sharon's probably got
Speaker 4: a few more days.
Speaker 2: But yeah, what we'll be praying for. And like we said,
Speaker 2: thank you for taking the time to you know, talk
Speaker 2: with us and enlighten us.
Speaker 1: And we thoroughly and yeah, we hope to have you
Speaker 1: back for some more discussions. We can do this for
Speaker 1: a week.
Speaker 3: Sharon too, I'd love to talk, yeah, Sharon.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we'll hopefully we can make that happen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: get the two of us on together and we can
Speaker 4: you know, just turn over the show and just let
Speaker 4: us run with it. I'm cool with that, Derek.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, appreciate it. Guys, Thank you for
Speaker 1: tuning in and keep on digging well.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Dig Bible Podcast, questions, comments,
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