WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.240 Hello, It is Ryan and I was on a flight 2 00:00:02.279 --> 00:00:04.480 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 3 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:07.080 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at 4 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:08.919 the person sitting next to me, and you know what 5 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.720 they were doing. They were also playing Chumpa Casino. Coincidence, 6 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.240 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa 7 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:16.640 Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games. You can 8 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.559 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 9 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:22.920 So sign up now at chumbuck Casino dot com to 10 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:23.600 claim you're free. 11 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:24.320 Welcome bonus. 12 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:27.440 That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the Chumba line. 13 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.960 No pers necessary, dvoid over if I lost terms conditions 14 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:30.519 eighteen plus. 15 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:31.600 Judy was boring. 16 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:32.119 Hello. 17 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.200 Then Judy discovered chumbucasino dot com. 18 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:36.759 It's my little escape. 19 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:38.479 Now Judy is the life of the party. 20 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.159 Oh baby Mama is bringing home the bacon who. 21 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.679 Take it easy, Judy, jump the Chumba life. That's for everybody. 22 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:48.320 So go to chumpacasino dot com and play over one 23 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.479 hundred casino style games joined today and playing for free 24 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.119 for your chance to redeem some serious prices. Jump Chumpacasino 25 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.759 dot com Noprid's necessary boid we're prohibited by on eighteen 26 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.600 plus terms and conditioned plice let's details. 27 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.759 No, Hello, it is Ryan And I was on a 28 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:05.840 flight the other day playing one of my favorite social 29 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.719 spin slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over 30 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:10.519 at the person sitting next to me, and you know 31 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:13.439 what they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence, 32 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.920 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa 33 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.200 Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games that you 34 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.239 can play for free anytime anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 35 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.879 So sign up now at Chumbuckcasino dot com to claim 36 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:25.319 you're free. 37 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:26.079 Welcome bonus. 38 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.159 That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the Chumba line. 39 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:30.920 No percent necessary DL you revod where Ever, if I 40 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:32.040 lost in terms of conditions. 41 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:34.120 Of eating pluss Hello, it is Ryan, and we could 42 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.359 all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't 43 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:38.879 we just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, 44 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.400 doing the dishes, counting or steps, you know, all the 45 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.120 mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan 46 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.400 of Chumba Casino. Chumbuck Casino has all your favorite social 47 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.120 casino style games you can play for free anytime anywhere, 48 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.599 with daily bonuses that shop brighten your day lowe actually 49 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.799 a lot, so sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 50 00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.599 That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 51 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.920 Necessary overby lost in terms conditions eighteen plus D. 52 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.759 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 53 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.879 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 54 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:26.240 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 55 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.919 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 56 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:34.240 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 57 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.039 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 58 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:53.000 Good evening to his neighbors. Anthony Souel was a friendly 59 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.759 and helpful former marine, but they didn't know about his 60 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:02.400 dark side or the gruesome secret inside his soul. Secret 61 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.560 life was revealed to the nation on October twenty ninth, 62 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:09.919 two thousand and nine, when a Cleveland police swamped entered 63 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.759 his house to arrest them for an alleged rape. They 64 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.800 didn't find soul, but they encountered a nightmarish scene to 65 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:23.039 decomposed bodies as his third floor living room. Eight more 66 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.000 bodies were hidden throughout the house and burned in the backyard. 67 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.960 In the smith that discovered a human skull. All of 68 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:34.639 the bodies were female and all appeared to have been bound. 69 00:03:35.319 --> 00:03:39.120 Two days later, police captured Soul, sexual sadist, who had 70 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.479 served a fifteen year prison sentence for kidnapping, raping, and 71 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.520 torturing a twenty one year old pre woman. House of 72 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.120 Horrors exposes the shocking, detailed Soles to pray of crimes 73 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.719 and twisted ski He preyed on neighborhood women, luring them 74 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.919 to his home with alcohol and drugs. Soul then murdered 75 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:00.680 the women and lived among their corpses. Five other women 76 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.759 were attacked by Soul, but managed to escape. After a 77 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:07.360 dramatic trial in the summer of twenty eleven, Seul was 78 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:12.039 convicted sentenced to death. In House of Horrors, readers are 79 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.439 given a rare glimpse inside the mind of a serial 80 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:18.839 killer through interviews with souls neighbors and relatives, the surviving victims, 81 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:23.519 and exclusive interviews with Soul himself. The book they were 82 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:28.360 in his House of Horrors, the shock looking choosy Soul 83 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:34.040 The Cleveland with my special guest journalist and author Rob Spyrna, 84 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.000 welcome to the program, and thank you for a Greenedness interview. 85 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:39.920 Rob Spyrna, thank you for having me. 86 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:41.079 Dan glad to be here. 87 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.040 Thank you very much. Incredible book and an incredible case. 88 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:51.360 Let's talk about what were the circumstances that brought you 89 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:57.360 to writing this book House of Horrors. 90 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:02.800 The Actually it was a matter of ethical convenience. I 91 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:07.480 don't live very far from the crime scene, and in 92 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:12.000 watching the televised newscast of it, because there was a 93 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:16.959 very big, very big event, I decided one day just 94 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.279 to head over there. I'm an ex newspaper reporter and 95 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.480 my you know, you never lose that nose for news. 96 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:26.959 And as I stood on the sidewalk across the street 97 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.759 from the crime scene, watching the corners assistance work and 98 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:33.920 law enforcement work, I started talking to some of the 99 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:38.399 people and some of the women were crying, and they 100 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.959 were crying because they suspected or had reason to believe 101 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.240 their loved ones were in that house, either daughters, mothers, sisters. 102 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:51.079 And in speaking with the women and learning about some 103 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:53.560 of these ladies who kind could have possibly been in there, 104 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.240 I just became interested in their lives. For the most part, 105 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:02.319 there were women who had jobs, they had families, and 106 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:07.399 there was one common denominator and that was drugs. They 107 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:09.560 all had drug problems, had a history of drug abuse, 108 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.879 So I want to know more about those women and 109 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:22.079 how that occurred. And then my inspiration writing the book 110 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.439 was fueled when the media because when the bodies were found, 111 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.000 there was a long, fairly long period of time between 112 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:31.920 the murders and the discovery, so they were in various, 113 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:36.480 varying states of decomposition. So the media really didn't have 114 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:38.959 much to go on because the women weren't identified yet. 115 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:44.279 But once they started finding out who they were, even 116 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:48.079 the mainstream media kind of started branding and labeling them 117 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.839 as by their past. So in other words, they were 118 00:06:51.839 --> 00:07:00.000 all women who had criminal histories, prostitution, drug abusers. So ultimately, 119 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.360 what I wanted to do is give some sense of 120 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:05.319 humanity back to the women, to show them as people 121 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.519 who god hooked on drugs, lived basically a terrible life, 122 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:13.560 and then endured a terrible death. 123 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:20.439 Now let's talk about Cleveland, because we really do have 124 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.040 to talk about that, and you do talk about that 125 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:24.959 in your book extensively. Talk about Cleveland in the seventies 126 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.639 and eighties, you note that at one time it was 127 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:31.000 the fifth biggest city in the US. About Cleveland and 128 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.720 the changing Cleveland, and especially then get to East Cleveland 129 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.639 where this story occurs. 130 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:49.920 Cleveland Industrial city. Of course, steel mills, manufacturing. In the fifties, 131 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:56.680 those industries started contracting, basically left gaping holes in the 132 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:00.240 inner city in terms of population. When the jobs went away, 133 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.480 a lot of your middle you had middle class flight, 134 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:10.120 both both black and white, left the inner city. Housing 135 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:16.920 values really plummeted. Obviously, jobs went away, the safety net, 136 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:22.399 social services started contracting. Into the seventies, Cleveland saw a 137 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:24.920 lot of racial problems, a lot of a lot of 138 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:32.080 racial strife. In the sixties, there was always a mistrust. 139 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.960 It seemed to be quite quite a long history of 140 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:40.519 mistrust between the black community and Cleveland police department. And 141 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.879 there were two notable riots, Glenville and Huff where there's 142 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.720 three three police officers were killed in the Huff riots. 143 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.799 So there was a lot of tension, a lot of antagonism, 144 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.159 and that mistrust carried through into two thousand and nine. 145 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.960 Actually when the bodies were discovered I'll get to that 146 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:04.639 in a second, but within when the population went away, 147 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:08.840 what it left was a lot of poverty. Drugs came in. 148 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.679 We had a big influx of drugs in the seventies. 149 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:16.279 In fact, nineteen seventy two, Cleveland had three hundred and 150 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.159 thirty three murders. That was, let's right on par with 151 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.600 Chicago and New York, and the population was quite significantly 152 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.519 less than them, so you know, there were some problems 153 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:33.840 in Cleveland. Now. The neighborhood that Anthony Soul moved into 154 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.480 was actually a one time a very affluent, so to speak, 155 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:42.240 black community. If you were African American and you lived 156 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.320 on Imperial Avenue in the fifties, that was a sign 157 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:50.440 of prestige. Jim Brown, the NFL player lived there. Don 158 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:55.759 King boxing Fromoter live there, Doctors, attorneys, so that was 159 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:59.720 a nice street at one time. And as we saw 160 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:05.480 the population decline and you know, housing values deteriorate, a 161 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.480 lot of the big houses on Imperial got cut up 162 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.159 into multi family apartments and became rental units. So of 163 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.559 course there generally there's you know, less upkeep, and then 164 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.159 the drugs moved in, so it was kind of a 165 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.039 rough area. Now actually where the East Cleveland is actually 166 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.759 an inner ring suburb of Cleveland. It's just east of 167 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.399 the Cleveland city limits where this, uh, these crimes happened. 168 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:34.279 It was actually in Mount Pleasant, a neighborhood called Mount Pleasant, 169 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.799 which is a hot spot for crime, and the FBI 170 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:41.639 charts it's one of the that's one of the highest 171 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:45.919 violent crime rates in the nation. So that was the 172 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:51.279 environment that that we were looking at for these crimes. 173 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.600 Very high crime, drug plagued, poverty stricken neighborhood. 174 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.279 And as you know too at this time. 175 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.080 With the record probably more probably higher. 176 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.120 Okay, now let's get to the subject of this story. 177 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:17.440 Anthony Edward Soul, his mother, Claudia Garrison. So take us 178 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:22.639 back and tell us about Anthony Edward Soul's upbringing, tell 179 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:27.000 us about the family, and tell us what you what 180 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:31.120 you have found in the book vote Anthony Soul. 181 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:37.320 Anthony was a complicated figure who came from a complicated family. 182 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:47.200 His mother, very religious, very hard working, had seven children 183 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:50.679 with Anthony's father. Anthony's father was a rolling stone. He 184 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:53.639 got married, he had a children out of wed lock. 185 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.000 He had different different women he had children with, so 186 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:59.480 Anthony really wasn't exposed him very much. He grew up 187 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:04.960 in a house with thirteen a blended family of thirteen 188 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:11.759 half siblings, nieces and nephews and uncles. Really no significant 189 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:13.919 male role model in that house. It was just his 190 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.679 mother and his grandmother. His mother was very demanding, very strict. 191 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:21.799 She worked a lot of hours. There was a big 192 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.759 house actually, this house was in East Cliff and a 193 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.720 very nice house. And she was a very stern disciplinarian 194 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.799 and her if she expected certain shores to be done 195 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.480 and things to be done a certain way, and if 196 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:40.240 they weren't or if they weren't done to her satisfaction, 197 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:46.320 she would use physical, physical discipline. And one of her 198 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:51.159 favorite methods was to strip the kid's naked. And her 199 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.559 favorite targets for this were two girls. They were twins, 200 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.679 Ramona and Leona. They were about eleven twelve years old, 201 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:04.120 just going through puberty, and she would come home if 202 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.759 they hadn't done their chores, strip them naked, tie him 203 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:13.000 to a banister with an electrical extension chord, and then 204 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.600 beat them with another cord until they either bled or 205 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.480 cried enough to make her relent. Now she do this 206 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.080 with all the other kids gathered around. So here you 207 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.480 have these two young girls going through puberty naked, and 208 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:32.960 the other kids associating whatever those sexual feelings, they were 209 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:38.200 those confusing feelings with violence. So it's a very twisted 210 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.840 atmosphere that she endured. And then just jumping ahead real 211 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:47.000 quick to tie that in later on. Anthony's eleven victims, 212 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.080 all of them were found with some form of an 213 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.360 extension chord, either wrapped around there, binding their hands or 214 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:57.240 wrapped around their neck. So going back, he grew up 215 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:01.440 in this environment. I did not cover this too much 216 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.759 in my book, but there was incest, there were sexual 217 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:10.200 violence against the younger girls, just not a real healthy atmosphere. Now, 218 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.879 Anthony seemed to be one of her favorites. He didn't 219 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.440 get disciplined as much as the other ones did, but 220 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:22.039 there were a few stories which I felt was important 221 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.720 to his development. One of those one anecdote was he 222 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:28.279 was in the front yard playing, he might have been 223 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.919 about twelve thirteen, and his mom pulled in the driveway 224 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.320 after work and he ran up to say, you know hi, mom, 225 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:36.639 and she reached out of the car and punched him 226 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.879 in the nose. She actually broke his nose, according to 227 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.559 his siblings, And he just stood there and said, Mom, 228 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.360 why'd you do that? She said, well, that'll teach you 229 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:46.639 not to clean your room when I tell you too. 230 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:52.720 So just a remarkably dysfunctional childhood. 231 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.840 What I found remarkable is what you note in the 232 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:04.000 book when and Claudia is whipping the nieces, and you said, 233 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.320 in particular the two nieces and the one nephew, but 234 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:14.120 Anthony was watching but laughing at their torment, which pretty telling. 235 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:19.720 Yeah, yeah, very confusing. Probably did not know what to 236 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:24.759 make of that. Obviously, his and the other kid's psychosexual 237 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:29.919 development was not proceeding, you know, as it should have 238 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:37.720 with that blend of violence and you know, pubescent sexuality 239 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:38.679 that they were exposed to. 240 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.120 And at the same time, the elder father that you 241 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:47.039 said was out of his life was also incarcerated for 242 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:48.919 most of his life as well. 243 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:56.000 Wasn't he incarcerated? Came out, met another woman, had four 244 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:02.480 children with her. She, unlike Claudia, uh, was caring, nurturing 245 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.159 interest in their children's development. All four of those children 246 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:12.360 turned out very well. They all had jobs, they kept 247 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:17.279 them until retirement. They had families, there were homeowners, very 248 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.360 different experience than the children that grew up in Claudia's home. 249 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:33.159 Now you mentioned the first infamous twelve one two two 250 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:38.320 o five Imperial Avenue and Thomas Senior and Sigurna Henderson 251 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:42.200 settle into the first four of this duplex. So tell 252 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:43.559 us a little bit about this house. 253 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.480 House had been in the Solo family for three generations. 254 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.360 They actually were well respected. The family was well respected 255 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:58.519 in the in the community. There were carpenters and handy men. 256 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.639 Nice house, big house, three stories, a big frame house, 257 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:08.480 double balcony off the double porch, roofed porch off the 258 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:16.599 first floor, and then also the second floor and the 259 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:24.039 downstairs were the mom. The mom lived downstairs and dad 260 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:29.079 died while Anthony was imprisoned during the eighties or not 261 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:34.279 the nineties, I'm sorry. And so Anthony's stepmother lived in 262 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:39.559 that house but rented out the second and third floors. 263 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:44.440 She gained some rental income from that. But that house 264 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:50.839 was situated rate next right adjacent to a sausage factory, 265 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.680 and then next door of this, just up the streets 266 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.759 of the sausage factory was kind of a deli where 267 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:02.480 a lot of the neighborhood people went to buy groceries 268 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:08.200 and beer cigarettes. So there was some traffic on impurely 269 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.680 because of Imperial. Because of that deli. 270 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.440 Now tell us about his relationship with his real siblings, 271 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:21.119 which are Patricia Owen and Tresa. How close was he 272 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.880 to these siblings. 273 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:32.160 They were quite a bit older than him, Tressa was, 274 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:38.200 and Tressa was a little younger than him. Patricia well, sadly, 275 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:41.640 nearly every woman that lived in that house, every girl 276 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.440 in that house started having children at age thirteen, which 277 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.400 perhaps that's biologically when they could have children first. So 278 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:54.720 there was, you know, there was just different generations of 279 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.519 the family in there. Now, Patricia had some serious health 280 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:02.160 problems and she had seven children, and after about the third, 281 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.680 third or fourth child, doctors told her, if you keep 282 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.359 having children, you're putting your life in danger. Well, she 283 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:15.680 kept having children, and in fact she did die. Tresa. Perhaps, 284 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:20.000 you know, I think Anthony was closest to Tresa. Very sharp, 285 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:25.200 very intuitive, very street smart woman, kind of a lengthy 286 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.400 criminal history. She was a little bit of a hustler 287 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.960 and a scammer, and perhaps you know, maybe they had 288 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.480 that in common that that seems to be Yet who 289 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:42.160 he was closest with, In fact, I think that's the 290 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:46.079 only sibling that he kept in touch with after everybody 291 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.240 moved out of that house. In East Cleveland. 292 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:57.119 How was his academics as school? Tell us about that. 293 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.640 Never lived up to his potential very bright. I talked 294 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:06.119 to a couple of his teachers. They recognized a real 295 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.240 spark in him. He just didn't seem interested in school. 296 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:16.119 He was more interested in playing chess and reading. And 297 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.720 he was an unusual kid. He was quiet and kind 298 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.519 of kind of nerdy, and he was bullied in junior high. 299 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.839 He was bullied, he got pushed around, so he wasn't 300 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.839 really motivated academically, And of course there was probably nobody 301 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:34.440 at home that was really pushing him and supporting him 302 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:39.079 in any great direction to get good grades. He like 303 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.279 the other kids, were left to their own devices, and 304 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.759 eventually I think they all dropped out of school at 305 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.240 some point. 306 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.200 He talk in the book about it really affecting him 307 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.000 later not to jump ahead, but that he was called 308 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:59.759 dumb and stupid and dramatic moment in the book where 309 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:06.839 Anthony decides that after this uneventful high school or lackluster 310 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.039 time in high school, that he'll enlist in the army, 311 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.640 and his mother says something that spurns him on. So 312 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.799 tell us what she says to him that motivates him 313 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:21.599 to go into the military. 314 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.400 Yeah, you know, I don't have that exactly on tip 315 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.039 of my tongue, but she did say something like, you'll 316 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:32.039 you'll never make it in the military. He probably wanted 317 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:33.960 to go into a certain branch of the military and 318 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.720 she said you'll never make it. Well, she was wrong, 319 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.160 I mean one hundred percent. He was an excellent marine. 320 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.920 He was the honor he went into Marines. And what 321 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.519 we have to look at first is this. He was 322 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:57.640 very obsessive, compulsive, very organized, very orderly, and those qualities 323 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.400 served him very well in the Marines, in the job market, 324 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:04.519 and then of course in prison. So he went into 325 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:09.359 the Marines, and he was orderly, he was organized, he 326 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:15.119 was punctual to a fault. He followed orders. I mean, 327 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.440 he was an interesting guy. He was not a rebel. 328 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:22.440 I mean he was really looking to be loved and 329 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:27.759 really wanted a leadership force in his life. So he 330 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.400 could be persuaded, he could be influenced depending on who 331 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.680 that person was. So he really thrived in the Marine Corps. 332 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.480 He was in fact, he was named the honor Marine 333 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.960 of his platoon. So out of seventy seventy Marines in 334 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.640 his boot camp, he was the one that was picked 335 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:50.319 that best exemplified the Marine attributes of integrity, leadership, honor. 336 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.720 And he did well, I mean he did well in 337 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:59.200 a very structured environment. In fact, during the trial, to 338 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.200 jump ahead a little bit, an officer came to testify 339 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.920 as to his record and said that he would have 340 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.680 stayed in the Marines. He could have really made a 341 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:09.759 nice career out of it. 342 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:17.319 Now, he did re enlisting, so he did have a 343 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:20.519 fairly lengthy you know, I mean relatively, didn't just go 344 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:26.519 for the one hitch. But he was located in different 345 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.400 places in the world, which becomes important a little bit later, 346 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.119 at least for police authorities. So tell us where some 347 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.920 of the places that he was stationed. 348 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.680 He yeah, he spent a lot of time in North Carolina. 349 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:44.799 He was actually his military operational specialty was actually electrician. Interestingly, 350 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.200 he was stationed for a while, he made sergeant. He 351 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.079 was promoted to sergeant. But he had a drinking problem 352 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:53.839 in the Marines, and in fact, he met a female 353 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.039 marine who married him just because she saw that he 354 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.880 was gonna probably get thrown on the Marines because of 355 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.160 his drinking, so she kept him straight. But he at 356 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:09.119 one point in time, was deployed to Okinawa, and in 357 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.119 talking to some of his associates, while he was in Okinaw, 358 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.960 he'd go out sometimes on weekends and he would exhibit 359 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:18.680 some of his dev and behavior there. He would go 360 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:24.000 meet bar girls, prostitutes in the red light district, take 361 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:26.000 him back to a motel. He'd tie him up to 362 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.640 a chair and then abuse him. Now, I don't there's 363 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.759 no evidence that he would have killed a woman but 364 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.519 over there, but of course we really wouldn't know that. Now, 365 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:41.720 the women didn't report him, probably for a couple of reasons. 366 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.079 He was an officer in the Marine Corps. They would 367 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:47.960 have gotten in trouble. So he seemed to have been 368 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.799 able to get away with that quite a bit while 369 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:57.440 he was over there. He eventually, though, he did re enlist. 370 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.519 One time, he had an a accident in a car 371 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.440 or something splashed into his eyes, and I think maybe 372 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.119 he decided at that point in time to get out 373 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.839 of the Marines. The day that he left the Marines, 374 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:17.000 his wife at the time divorced him. 375 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.880 Now, some of the deviant behavior that you spoke of, 376 00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:22.960 we have to put this because I think it's important, 377 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.400 is that he mentioned to he didn't mention any. 378 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.880 Lucky Land Casino. Asking people, what's the weirdest place you've 379 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:33.559 gotten lucky? Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, 380 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:35.680 in my dentist's office more than once. 381 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:37.400 Actually, do I have to say? 382 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:37.799 Yes? 383 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.039 You do? 384 00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.880 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? Really? Yes? 385 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.680 Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? I 386 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.200 never win in tell? Well, there you have it. 387 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.400 You can get lucky anywhere playing at Lucky Landsloughts dot com. 388 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:52.960 Play for free right now? Are you feeling lucky? No, 389 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.400 We're just necessary for my law eighteen plus terms. Conditions 390 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:56.880 of pluck sets everydains. 391 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:01.240 Step into the world of power, loyal and luck. 392 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.920 I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. 393 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.039 With family, canoli's and spins mean everything. 394 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:10.920 Now you want to get mixed up in the family business. 395 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.839 Introducing The Godfather at Champa Casino dot com. Test your 396 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.720 luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slot. 397 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.759 Someday I will call upon you to do a service 398 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:22.039 for me. 399 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.000 Play The Godfather now at Champacasino dot com. 400 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:28.119 Welcome to the Family vdW group. No perches necessary. 401 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:29.119