1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,399
Speaker 1: It's going to happen, Boss, It's going to happen during

2
00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:04,839
the course of the complete hul Cogan just because we

3
00:00:04,919 --> 00:00:08,919
don't have full, unfettered access to everything that's ever existed

4
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,320
on tape of hul Cogan. When we hit that point

5
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,560
in the chronology, does it mean it won't emerge later?

6
00:00:15,279 --> 00:00:17,600
Just wait till some Daphin footage comes up, you know

7
00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:19,519
that that is the moment we've all been waiting for.

8
00:00:19,559 --> 00:00:22,239
What do we want under our tree this year original

9
00:00:22,359 --> 00:00:26,239
nine millimeter reels? Yes, of all of whole stuff. I

10
00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:31,000
want Hogan and Andre in Alabama. I want every Hogan

11
00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:33,240
promo on Ron Fuller's TV. Yeah, I hear what his

12
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600
voice sounded like, what the presentation looked like. I want

13
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,960
to hear them talking about him battling Harley Race. Yes,

14
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,079
but we can dream. And one of the things that

15
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,679
sort of became I mean, obviously it's not a Holy

16
00:00:45,759 --> 00:00:48,520
Grail level piece of missing footage, but one of the

17
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,399
things that kind of became a bee in my bonnet,

18
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,399
kind of stuck in my craw a little bit, is

19
00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:55,840
that we didn't have access to Hulk Hogan's match with

20
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,920
well remembered of the period wwfn W dow w F

21
00:01:01,039 --> 00:01:07,560
JOB or Sylvano SUSA. You remember this, So that's a

22
00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:11,319
little bit of Joe mcbe Yeah, you remember the Silvano

23
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,280
SUSA story.

24
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,319
Speaker 2: Don't you? Uh? I think so. There have been so

25
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:16,959
many stories, but reminding me of this one.

26
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,959
Speaker 1: He's the guy who we ended up getting a hand

27
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,799
of a memo that he sent Titan Towers in the

28
00:01:20,879 --> 00:01:22,439
nineties hoping to get hired again.

29
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,920
Speaker 2: And vincent it back as Yes, well, you know, we

30
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,799
appreciate your your individualism and how you UH participate and

31
00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:32,200
pertab participated in the w w A in the past.

32
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,599
But you know, we have to think about the current

33
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,159
age of of projection regarding the fan base and the

34
00:01:39,359 --> 00:01:42,359
UH and the talent involved in in projecting to the

35
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,159
fan base and multitude of of of you know, laterals

36
00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:48,519
and collaterals and all sorts of things that we have

37
00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:50,719
to consider before we can give you a proper answer,

38
00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:54,560
whether that is a yes or a no. In regards

39
00:01:54,599 --> 00:01:58,599
to the the opportunity to come back and made event

40
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,680
WrestleMania in other world, we will consider have a good

41
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,719
life right in other words, yes, I mean we we

42
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,719
we we need you know, we The w W is

43
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,759
in a constant state of diving into deliverable.

44
00:02:14,719 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: An old, broken down wrestler down on his luck on

45
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,039
the verge of bankruptcy, gets a letter back with all

46
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,360
of this corporate fluff.

47
00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:27,199
Speaker 2: In it, a deliverable acquisitional entertainment.

48
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 3: And uh Silvano sitting on his couch and like providence, Like,

49
00:02:32,719 --> 00:02:37,000
oh Jesus, Vince, he says, honey, he says, there's just

50
00:02:37,159 --> 00:02:40,360
transactional mergers and acquisitions or something.

51
00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 2: Because the w W is A is a corporate conglomerate

52
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,479
of innovative industry leaders and.

53
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:54,879
Speaker 1: But industry leaders across industry. I mean, Silvano SUSA left

54
00:02:54,879 --> 00:03:00,120
the wrestling business and worked in industry and like industrial plants,

55
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,599
but in an industrial park.

56
00:03:04,159 --> 00:03:06,919
Speaker 2: But that's what I will. But I will keep you

57
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,800
in the loop as we as we personally dive into

58
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,520
the weeds, and you know, we continue to move forward

59
00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,680
in an attempt to uh to move the needle towards

60
00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:17,840
our low hanging fruit.

61
00:03:19,039 --> 00:03:23,039
Speaker 1: But be well, I'll take some high hanging fruit, Vince.

62
00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:26,000
I don't give a fuck. I'm on the verge of

63
00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:29,639
I'm looking for the letter here. What a wonderful memo

64
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,879
it was. But yeah, so we developed a little bit

65
00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:37,319
of a curiosity about this guy, you know. And yes,

66
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,599
in any territory during the territorial era, the fans of

67
00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:45,360
the of the region got to know the jabbronis. You know,

68
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,560
you knew them by near sure. They were never going

69
00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:49,759
to win. They didn't really have fans, but he was

70
00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:52,479
really one of them. And there was this photograph that's

71
00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:54,439
pretty well circulated. You can find it if you Google

72
00:03:54,439 --> 00:03:57,280
at Hulk Hogan Wrestling Silvano, SUSA. And so it's like

73
00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,800
man if photographers were there to photograph the match and everything,

74
00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:01,960
and it looked like it should have been on television

75
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,240
because it took place on a television taping, just like

76
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,000
all the other matches we watched as hul Cogan made

77
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,159
his debut for the WWF in November nineteen seventy nine.

78
00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:16,439
And sure enough we brought it to the surface. Richard Land,

79
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,399
who's just an absolute maven of archival wrestling footage on

80
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,480
X heard about the call through our network through the

81
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,720
Great mat and knew that we had a need. And

82
00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:28,879
it's one of those things where we asked for a

83
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,959
favor of a relative stranger. Yeah, and you kind of

84
00:04:31,959 --> 00:04:34,120
don't want to push it too hard kind of want

85
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,319
to gracefully let someone forget, you know, if if it's

86
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,800
just not something that's worth their time, let them forget

87
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,839
about it. And obviously you know it's fine. Like we've

88
00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:44,040
appreciated the I appreciate at least the initial message that

89
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,720
said I'll try to find it for you. Like we

90
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,079
still haven't heard back from our Palquitte Parker.

91
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:48,959
Speaker 2: Have we about.

92
00:04:50,399 --> 00:04:52,600
Speaker 1: The Alabama footage and what kind of contract? But the

93
00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:55,600
contract could tell us about why if there's no footage

94
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,639
of this territory. We have all seen the Hulk cogaan

95
00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:58,879
Andre the Giant right.

96
00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm leave his his number is out of

97
00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:05,519
is now out of order and like it no longer exists,

98
00:05:05,519 --> 00:05:08,920
and his email getting back those those those spam, those

99
00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:12,560
those returns saying nope, this email doesn't exist, so he's gone.

100
00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:19,439
Speaker 1: I'm being funny. Yeah, he definitely. I'm just almost found

101
00:05:19,439 --> 00:05:22,639
with No, I didn't find it. Yes, his email is

102
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,040
bouncing back. It is not that is not true. But

103
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,879
you know, I thought, was my god, if you could

104
00:05:27,879 --> 00:05:31,199
find the contract that entitled you to put that Hull

105
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,319
Cogan arm wrestling angle with Andre from the doth in

106
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,199
TV Studios. Yes, on that wrestling goal VHS released. Yes,

107
00:05:37,519 --> 00:05:38,839
we might know who was on the other side of

108
00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,519
that transaction, and he did tell us in the interview

109
00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:42,759
that we did around Christmas time that it was Pedro Martinez,

110
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,680
who was of course a prominent Northeast area wrestling promoter

111
00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,519
in the seventies. However, wasn't quite sure about all of

112
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,560
the particulars and thought that we get something out of that.

113
00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:57,240
This one, though, this one came to life. And I

114
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,000
don't know how well circulated video of Hulk Hogan versus

115
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,040
Silvano SUSA was before we did this. I don't know

116
00:06:03,079 --> 00:06:05,360
if at one point perhaps was very easy to discover,

117
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,360
but we had a hell of a time. It took

118
00:06:07,399 --> 00:06:10,560
place on December fourth, nineteen seventy nine, of the TV

119
00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:14,160
tapings in Allentown, PA, but it didn't air until December

120
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,240
twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine. And not only are we happy,

121
00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:22,600
actually thrilled to have just gotten that much more complete

122
00:06:23,639 --> 00:06:26,360
as it regards the video record of Hulk Hogan and

123
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,720
his maiden voyage in the New York territory, it also

124
00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:33,199
opens another vein for us that we were rather excited

125
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,439
to explore. As we've gone through the different territories Hulk

126
00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:40,560
Hogan's worked, be it Michael Saint John and Memphis for example,

127
00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:45,759
or Charlie Platt in Alabama, or many others. We have

128
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,759
been able to find a way to access the voice

129
00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:51,240
of the fan in some way. Yes, we take pride

130
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,839
in that the voice of the person who wasn't actively

131
00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:57,680
involved in the wrestling business but had a vantage point

132
00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,839
on it that ought to be chalked up to history

133
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,040
as well. Yes, and for New York, I thought John

134
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,800
Arezi immediately. Those who know what I'm talking about know

135
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,040
that John Arezzi it wasn't as a longtime wrestling journalist

136
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,920
out of New York. He ran the radio show with

137
00:07:13,959 --> 00:07:16,560
Vince Russo in the early nineties of pro wrestling Spotlight Show.

138
00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:18,800
He was the guy that was the journalist with the

139
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,800
sunglasses on and the Phil Donahue panel that had Dave

140
00:07:22,839 --> 00:07:25,240
melts Heer on it, and of course Ince McMahon and

141
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,519
everyone going at each other's throats.

142
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 2: It's working totally great.

143
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,839
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yeah, Well he wrote a great book

144
00:07:32,839 --> 00:07:35,680
called Matt Memories where he talks about hoe he essentially

145
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,040
had had to go incognito, changed his name, got involved

146
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,959
in managing talent in the Nashville country music scene, changed

147
00:07:42,959 --> 00:07:45,279
his name to John Alexander and just had a kind

148
00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:48,120
of a wild second life after I don't know. I mean,

149
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,240
he was in that Dark Side of the Ring episode

150
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,000
that we helped on the steroid trials, and he was

151
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,040
getting weird visits from random people involved with like private

152
00:07:57,079 --> 00:07:59,680
eye firms and stuff because he was, you know, he

153
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,040
was a platform a guy's like Superstar Billy Graham and

154
00:08:02,079 --> 00:08:05,399
Bruno San Martino who were absolutely skewering the ww after

155
00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,879
in the height of all of those scandals steroids and

156
00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:09,959
as well as the Tom Cole stuff and all the

157
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,439
stuff we came to find out was the mel Phillips stuff,

158
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,160
all of that, and so he ends up not not

159
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,240
not necessarily for that reason, but he ends up kind

160
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,079
of disappearing for a while. He used to run the

161
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,879
very first wrestling fan conventions in the vein of like

162
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,199
the star cast ones where you're kidding, oh yeah, like

163
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,800
in the early nineties or like wrestlers from several different

164
00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:33,080
companies and territories. One famously had Rick Flair there that

165
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,679
was a huge draw. The Cactus Jack mcfoley longtime friends

166
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,600
and associates with him, he brought him on his radio

167
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,720
show very very early on as a New York boy.

168
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,279
And so it's it's somebody that I thought would give

169
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,840
us a great vantage point on what it was like

170
00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:49,960
to be a fan of the territory at this time.

171
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,679
Not just a fan though, but someone who got into

172
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,799
the ring just once, just once. He tag teamed with

173
00:08:56,919 --> 00:09:01,480
Silvano SUSA against Dusty Rhodes and one of, if not

174
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,519
Dusty's first appearance in the New York territory of course,

175
00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,799
just before the arrival of Hulk Coogan. In fact, probably

176
00:09:08,799 --> 00:09:12,799
why while Terry Bolea was training with Matsuda and Company

177
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,000
down in Tampa to break into the business. So this

178
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,840
is great because the Silvano connection brings us to John

179
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,240
h gives us, I think, a really clean reason to

180
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,799
include him here on the complete Hulk Cogan rather than

181
00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:26,919
any other point later on. And we look forward to

182
00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:29,200
getting the perspective on Silvano and just what this was like.

183
00:09:29,279 --> 00:09:32,480
And and I think we've been hungering Boss to understand

184
00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,200
like how the New York fans saw Hulk Hogan before

185
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,440
eighty four.

186
00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's it's so important because we we have this.

187
00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:47,200
We it's a It's an incredible question mark and it

188
00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:51,360
and it and it just lingers, it constantly lingers, because

189
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,279
you you want to know if there was any any spark,

190
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:00,360
Was there any spark, was there any like, Hey, this

191
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,799
guy could fucking be it, this guy could be a

192
00:10:02,879 --> 00:10:06,919
huge star or was he just a fucking you know,

193
00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:10,159
schmuck who like whatever, you know, big guy of the month,

194
00:10:10,919 --> 00:10:13,440
and uh, you know, we'll see him, We'll see him

195
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,039
down the line.

196
00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

197
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:15,879
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

198
00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Larry Sibisco pointed out

199
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,080
in interacting a bit with Hulk Cocan in this era

200
00:10:21,519 --> 00:10:23,639
that I thought was really interesting is he detected a

201
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,679
frustration in Hulk about eventually becoming Andrew the Giants whipping

202
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,960
boy in the territory, right, because you can't forget it's

203
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,080
not like shay Stadium happens, Hogan slams Andre, loses the match,

204
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,759
and then that's it that you know, history is made.

205
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,919
Hult goes off and becomes a big name. No right,

206
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,559
as we'll get to in the complete Hulk Coke. And

207
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,679
they went back on the road with the Hogan Andre

208
00:10:44,759 --> 00:10:47,039
matches around the Horn as many cities as they could

209
00:10:47,039 --> 00:10:49,360
take it to. Really and do you think Hulk's.

210
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 2: Getting a w S.

211
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,159
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's grewy finishes. It's you know, kicking

212
00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:56,919
out at two but still getting counted down at three.

213
00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,960
Long and short of it is, you know, if you're

214
00:11:00,039 --> 00:11:02,559
Hulk Hogan looking out on your future in the New

215
00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:05,639
York territory after the showdown at Shay, you're just going

216
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,840
to be basically getting thrown around by Andre the Giant

217
00:11:08,879 --> 00:11:11,440
until people stop buying tickets to see it. And there's,

218
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,879
as we know, no end in sight. So how did

219
00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:16,679
the fan the ww fans see that Hulk, right? How

220
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,759
did they did they see him kind of degraded? We've

221
00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:21,399
already made a lot of hay about the fact that

222
00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:23,440
they really weren't the main event that showed out at

223
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,279
Shayes Abisco and Bruno of course were yes. And now

224
00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:28,320
you know, because the way we covered it exactly why,

225
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,080
including the interview with Larry's Obisco.

226
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 2: So what about that?

227
00:11:32,039 --> 00:11:33,639
Speaker 1: You know, how did the New York fans see Hulk

228
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,000
after it was clear that he wasn't going to eclipse

229
00:11:36,039 --> 00:11:38,600
Andre the Giant, that he might just go down as

230
00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:42,799
the latest guy to come in Big Heel physically Big

231
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,679
Heel losing a title program to the champion, Bob Ackland

232
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,120
being you know, the fill in for the Padro or

233
00:11:49,159 --> 00:11:51,279
the Bruno of the past, and then get plugged in

234
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,039
against Andre who, of course is never going to be

235
00:11:53,159 --> 00:11:55,600
a title challenger. His matches are never going to be

236
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,559
for the championship. They're always going to be the sort

237
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,279
of side show where you find the biggest guys you

238
00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:03,080
can to present a credible threat. But that's really the

239
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,000
beginning and end of the use case for a Hull

240
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,120
covid R. Starting to make sense, Boss now why he

241
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,879
was so keen on taking the Rocky opportunity, even if

242
00:12:10,879 --> 00:12:12,519
it's total Senior wasn't down with it.

243
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's it's it's a chance to to

244
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,320
kind of, you know, take a take a different step,

245
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,639
go someplace else. I mean, it makes total sense. And

246
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:24,159
so in the.

247
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,440
Speaker 1: Spirit of that and what we found, we've added a

248
00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:29,320
episode ten point five, if you will, to this nineteen

249
00:12:29,399 --> 00:12:33,200
eighty coverage. Just a little side script. We kind of

250
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,679
did one of these two when we discovered some additional

251
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,200
materials covering Sterling, Golden and Georgia Championship Wrestling. Sure sure

252
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,720
didn't get published in the KFA Mags until months and

253
00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:44,879
months after he'd already come to WWF and renamed himself

254
00:12:44,919 --> 00:12:46,960
and there was no such thing as Sterling Golden anymore.

255
00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:50,200
But still the framing of what he was like then

256
00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:54,639
is relevant. It just came into our consciousness later, and

257
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,200
there's going to be a bit of this as we

258
00:12:56,279 --> 00:12:58,799
go through the complete no doubt, we hope, as always,

259
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,360
when we put something into the universe it's something that

260
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,200
we tried our best to find but couldn't. We don't

261
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,960
just want to leave it at that. We await the

262
00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:09,399
kind of magic that a Richard Land was able to

263
00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:11,559
bring to us. So we have the video and we're

264
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,240
going to watch the match, but he also surfaced another one.

265
00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:17,360
Another one was also surfaced with mats up as well

266
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,840
that we didn't really know about, but it was kind

267
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,320
of referenced in passing in one of the clips we watched.

268
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,879
I don't know if you remember this, but all of

269
00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:26,879
a sudden, there was something we were watching where Hulk

270
00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:30,080
had applied a double bear hug. That is to say,

271
00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:32,720
he bear hugged two Jabbroni's at the same time. He

272
00:13:32,759 --> 00:13:36,159
was able to wrap his arms around two grown men

273
00:13:36,279 --> 00:13:39,159
and lift them simultaneously. And I was like, where the

274
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,399
hell was that one? Because yeah, right, it had to

275
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,399
have already happened. We've watched everything that we could find

276
00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,639
on tape. No, there was yet another January twenty sixth,

277
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:52,159
nineteen eighty television squash with joe Myhugh announcing, So that

278
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:54,559
puts us in Allentown. I believe I always get that

279
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,840
confused whether it's Allentown or Hamburg. And yeah, we're gonna

280
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,000
watch that one first. This was taped January twenty second

281
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,279
and aired January twenty sixth, nineteen eighty. Also will serve

282
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,720
as kind of a nice little refresher about what we

283
00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:11,039
saw of Hulk Cogan as he first blew into the

284
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,720
territory and where we're gonna see and the next leg

285
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,399
of the complete when we go on the road with

286
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,159
him and Andre post Shay and kind of decide decide

287
00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:22,159
with the takeaway message would be in his final months

288
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,360
in the territory for the fans. So we're gonna start

289
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:29,120
here again. It's January twenty sixth, nineteen eighty WWF Television

290
00:14:29,159 --> 00:14:31,759
Championship Wrestling Hulk Cogan versus two Jabrons by the name

291
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:33,759
of Fred Marzino and Paul Murray.

292
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 2: Are you ready? I am ready?

293
00:14:35,799 --> 00:14:40,399
Speaker 1: Okay, therefore we'll hit play in three two one play.

294
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:50,879
Speaker 2: Mcconnor Joe mchueuis guys.

295
00:14:50,840 --> 00:15:01,399
Speaker 5: McDon louis that is that Kevin Poula?

296
00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:13,799
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Fred Marzina was the guy from Stoneham Freddie

297
00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:20,159
don't call me Mercury Marzine, right exactly, Henry cutas can

298
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,240
hear the stir here in the TV shoot yep out

299
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,519
with a gold kate. There we go, There we go,

300
00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:31,480
blasty and a baby blue head to toe.

301
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 4: Yes, he is.

302
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: Before Joe m calls him incredible again, here.

303
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:52,519
Speaker 6: We go, fabulous.

304
00:15:57,519 --> 00:15:57,879
Speaker 7: Man.

305
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 2: Here's one hunk of is very good? Is I have?

306
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:10,679
Oh he's got yellow yellow trunks? Very good? Yeah? True?

307
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,879
A jewel here, white uh knee pads. That's like, that's

308
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,759
like a fucking cock tis right there? Come on, just

309
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,879
fucking wear the red goddamn me pads for fox sake.

310
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:25,960
And we did establish that it was this set of

311
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,240
tapings that he first wore.

312
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 8: Yellow nineteen eighty wrestling season getting underway with the wrestling.

313
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:34,039
Speaker 2: The nineteen eighty wrestling season, is that like seasons.

314
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 8: Just never in c gener earlier dominic to know what

315
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:37,000
you will make.

316
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 1: The double top wristlocks hold good the best he's called

317
00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:44,519
me incredible, coding y incredible.

318
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,799
Speaker 8: Indeed for the fans of Panton.

319
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:51,159
Speaker 2: This is off the Baltimore Television.

320
00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,639
Speaker 8: Tonight and then the Made of It the World Wrestling Events.

321
00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:58,039
Older Bob Backland takes on the number one contender.

322
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,559
Speaker 6: Doun't the worst.

323
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've been double leg diving them earlier.

324
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 8: When you're challenge yes, a little bit more than disco stuff,

325
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,079
and you explain why that's where I saw it to apply.

326
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: Watching disco stuff and they.

327
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,079
Speaker 8: Bring yourself to do it or be like implying a

328
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,319
hold on a brother or something, but brother.

329
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:30,799
Speaker 2: Amazing into each other.

330
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,599
Speaker 1: You're going to be the wrist not really for allowed

331
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:35,559
themselves to be yanked and.

332
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:38,880
Speaker 2: Slam. There we go.

333
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,519
Speaker 4: You know, you go from one thing to one another. Uh,

334
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,839
one hold leads to another. To me, it's going to

335
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,599
be instinct. And I just don't I think you're gonna

336
00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:49,200
be confused if you're trying and hold back like I don't.

337
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,599
Speaker 8: I don't think you're gonna be able to hold back.

338
00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:54,799
Speaker 7: Well, I don't know. Maybe a lot of people think

339
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:56,839
that way, and maybe you're right, because I've never been

340
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,079
facebook a situation like this before, but.

341
00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 8: Here it is double bear high unbelievable Bear, I got

342
00:18:05,519 --> 00:18:06,200
double bear.

343
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 4: Would you look at that.

344
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 2: Double bizhog brother his uh god world dude, Oh will

345
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:21,079
buy sex hair? Still flowing your work.

346
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,279
Speaker 4: They were going to go back and speak a little.

347
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: Bit more with Bruno still Terry Bolea. He hasn't gone

348
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,200
to Japan yet.

349
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,839
Speaker 9: You know it is time one minute and thirty six

350
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:40,880
seconds win inquitible Cooria.

351
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 4: With me now, Brunos Martin.

352
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 1: So that's uh, that was missing from the from the corpus.

353
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:49,440
So consider that added to the shelf here on the

354
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,799
complete and uh that leaves us with Silvano Susa. Now

355
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,720
we went a little bit out of order so as

356
00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:58,480
to leave on Silvano again. This was December seventy nine.

357
00:18:58,599 --> 00:19:01,640
Where's the match we just watched was January of nineteen eighty.

358
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,880
But we're going to get a look at Silvana Susa

359
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,039
and then it'll be our pleasure to present an interview

360
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,240
with John Arezzi, who got to know the man who

361
00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:10,519
shared the ring with the man, and will give us

362
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,079
a perspective on where and how Halt Hogan was moving

363
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,000
through the world at this point in time. In the

364
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,160
World Wrestling Federation.

365
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:24,319
Speaker 2: So let's hit play in three two one play gentlemen ex.

366
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,240
Speaker 8: Con in football one ball with a ten.

367
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 9: Time birth along introducing manager got fash with me.

368
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 2: It is Fred Blassie Ye splendid and tangerine.

369
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:47,279
Speaker 6: My eleven from the California.

370
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,839
Speaker 2: We wait with David brown Way.

371
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:59,039
Speaker 6: Gentlemen, Oh hog.

372
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:05,039
Speaker 2: IDs l Hoogan, that's the white sleat on. Still yeah,

373
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:16,000
that's oh God, that guy is providence like well thick,

374
00:20:16,039 --> 00:20:17,720
I should say definitely.

375
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: Not fin It's like a Buddy Cen's commissioner of public Works,

376
00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:23,000
doesn't he gone?

377
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 2: God, Fred Blasse here we go.

378
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 8: The following is commercial Nature's Correctmartino.

379
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: Say commercial nature. I had to give that Provido.

380
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 8: Well, he likes to raise your sharp and a competitive

381
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:47,119
start Friday night in West Orange at the South Mountain Arena.

382
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,440
Not only a pleasure for mister Sammartino to meet individual

383
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:56,200
competition this Friday night, but also of the Unico organization.

384
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,640
So a were they caused and a worthy contender squaring

385
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,640
off as Bruno Sammartino this Friday night, the fourth of

386
00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:05,119
January in West Orange, New Jersey.

387
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,599
Speaker 1: Awesome of course that in post yeah top wrestlock. Hogan

388
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,880
shoving the Silvanna who's in a blue single looking like

389
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:13,440
a vader.

390
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 2: He's not a small guy.

391
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 8: Curiosity is not like the curiosity when you're ruster and uh,

392
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:34,240
you know you would you ever want to try and

393
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,359
just once a little bit.

394
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 7: Well, if you're talking about me, I would if I

395
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:40,720
want to test his strength, because I was also also.

396
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: Strength.

397
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:49,039
Speaker 7: For example, if a Ptero, let's say, if Potero, I'm

398
00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:50,720
sure that that's the first thing in his mark, he's

399
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,720
going to show that he is a stronger man or

400
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:55,039
a vo call for many other people we can talk

401
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:58,000
about that are strong, but certainly a guy like Suso

402
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,480
it's not known to have that kind of track.

403
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 2: That comps don't have anything.

404
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,839
Speaker 7: He's talk that he should be curious to even imagine

405
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,599
that he might give the guy.

406
00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:14,279
Speaker 2: Some kind of whatever that whatever. That Rhode Island, he's

407
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,000
a couple of the reputation. He spent most of the

408
00:22:17,079 --> 00:22:18,160
time drinking cabinets.

409
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,319
Speaker 7: But I'm talking about that super strung, super super string

410
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:26,680
of the whole Cogan.

411
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: Open the knee, left, a crushing, blowing back running Susan,

412
00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:32,039
the two bucklings raining down elbows.

413
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the new York system Wiener, That's that's what

414
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,240
he's said. He's had quite a few New York System winners.

415
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: By whole Corgan picture and making the drive in the

416
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:43,240
trans am from Providence to Pennsylvania.

417
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,559
Speaker 2: Turn around was at the moment he gets you know

418
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:51,920
what he has, takes a huge buckle, Susan trying to

419
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:53,039
prove something to somebody.

420
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 7: Now he took it on the back and then leaked

421
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,319
I got what I can do your spine out of

422
00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:59,440
your back when you think.

423
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,279
Speaker 2: Of like laughing at.

424
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,039
Speaker 4: Corners, A wow, it was pretty thick.

425
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:16,839
Speaker 2: Okay on the strength person.

426
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 7: We've seen the bears been using a back.

427
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: That's one of the funnier bear hugs we've seen from

428
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,680
Holk squashed absolutely, I mean he was hunting him for

429
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:25,079
a while.

430
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,799
Speaker 8: And on the chest of Selous to get a mind

431
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,319
as well, perhaps the brains in the brown of Hulk Hogan.

432
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 4: Let's get the official time.

433
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: Still precocious, second.

434
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:44,759
Speaker 6: In coridinal.

435
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,799
Speaker 8: So Hogan now being assisted by fred Blast.

436
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:54,079
Speaker 2: That's that.

437
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:57,599
Speaker 1: So we found it, considered it, added to Cannon and

438
00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:59,880
much much more of that to come, we hope as

439
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,839
the complete Hull Cogan continues to unfold before your very

440
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,319
eyes presenting now a fly on the wall perspective on

441
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,279
this time period in WWF and the guy that Hulk

442
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:15,000
just comically ragdalled in the bear hug the new Port

443
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,839
Creamery customer of the Year, Silvano Susa. Here he comes

444
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,279
John Arezzi joining the tc H cannon on that cast,

445
00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:27,400
and hey, just quickly before we get to the interview

446
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,599
with John Oreszi, I was finally able to find the

447
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,279
memo that we've read in previous episode of the Complete

448
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:36,440
hul Coogan, delivered from one Vincent K. McMahon on December seventeenth,

449
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:40,440
nineteen ninety seven to the home of the former Silvano

450
00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:43,640
Susa reads. Dear Silvano, thank you for your second letter

451
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,680
of December twelfth, nineteen ninety seven. I regret that you've

452
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,200
had to endure such hardships, but I am sure, as

453
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,000
you have stated, that you've become a better person as

454
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:55,640
a result of it. However, and answering your request of employment,

455
00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:01,039
we currently have an abundance of individuals with similar talent. Nonetheless,

456
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,480
we certainly will keep you in mind for the future.

457
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:08,200
It was good to see you again. Best regards, Vince McMahon.

458
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,839
Speaker 6: Wrestling Podcast.

459
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,319
Speaker 4: He's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack n Seo,

460
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:50,759
m JP Soro.

461
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: Well, JP, as you know, one of the things we're

462
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,400
really trying to do with this complete Hulkogan project is

463
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,279
get into the minds of people that were not necessarily

464
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,240
active wrestlers in the different eras, different territories Hulk went to.

465
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:04,359
But but we're flies on the wall and really had

466
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,559
an insider view while also being true fans of the

467
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,000
territories that that Hulk touched.

468
00:26:09,759 --> 00:26:12,279
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean there's not I think. I think fly

469
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,839
on the wall, those are our people, right right.

470
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,559
Speaker 1: We want to talk to the guy vending at the

471
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,200
garden just as much as we want to talk to

472
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,160
the guy wrestling in the garden, and we found a

473
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,599
great candidate in that regard.

474
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:23,279
Speaker 2: You should know.

475
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm John Arezzi, of course, longtime wrestling journalist, author of

476
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,440
the book Matt Memories. Uh, just a terrific resource for

477
00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:32,640
this time period in WWF, and John, we're so happy

478
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:33,519
you made the time for us.

479
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:34,079
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

480
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,319
Speaker 4: Oh my pleasure. I'm happy to be here and happy

481
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,160
to share whatever thoughts and memories they may have. It's

482
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,799
good to jar the memories sometimes, so those yes, those

483
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,880
memories don't get buried.

484
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: We can be a we can be of assistance in

485
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:53,400
that regard. We thought about you right away because I

486
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,359
remember reading your book, your great story about teaming with

487
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,559
the former WWF job guy Solana Susa and cap match

488
00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:02,920
against Dusty Roads. You're one and only pro wrestling match.

489
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: John.

490
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: I think it would serve us all well if you

491
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,519
could just tell that story for our listeners to start.

492
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 4: Of course, and there's certainly a backstory that involved SUSA

493
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119
on this whole thing, which is really interesting. I had

494
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,720
been a photographer writer for all the major newstand wrestling magazines,

495
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:28,119
getting started in my teen years and publishing, getting articles published,

496
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,599
taking photographs at Madison Square Garden for every show. Once

497
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,319
I got my press access, which was not easy to get,

498
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,200
I was there and basically I had a crazy wold

499
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,480
hair up my ass, so to speak, that I wanted

500
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,359
to see what it would be like to go in

501
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,079
the ring and do this.

502
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,079
Speaker 2: Of course, I've shared that, I've shared that that feeling, and.

503
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,599
Speaker 4: I was able to accomplish that in nineteen seventy eight

504
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,880
when Ernie Roth, also known as the Grand Wizard of Wrestling,

505
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,400
as a dear friend of mine back then and I

506
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:06,039
told him what I wanted to do, and he thought

507
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:09,319
I was crazy, but he was able to set it

508
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,319
up for me for January tenth, seventy eight in Philadelphia,

509
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,839
where I covered the WWWF every three weeks at their

510
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:22,000
tapings for you know, several years. And Sussa I had

511
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,880
known because he was a prominent job guy back then.

512
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:29,480
He knew me. A matter of fact, I had been

513
00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:36,240
approached by Vince McMahon Junior to take pictures of some

514
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,400
of the job guys because they didn't feel they had

515
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,480
a lot of love, so I used to take publicity

516
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,599
shots of them, and Susa was one of those guys.

517
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:45,960
I'm behold here, I am January tenth and have and

518
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,880
I never was in the ring before. I didn't have

519
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,519
any training, kind of bullshitted my way there. And when

520
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:55,279
Girl Monsoon, who was the booker, was like, well, you know,

521
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:56,960
they knew who I was, he was like, where have

522
00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:02,400
you wrestled that? I wrestled down South, So that was

523
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:05,160
kind of it. But when I got into the locker

524
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,880
room with my gear, Susa was one of the guys

525
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,200
that see me in the locker room, and of course

526
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,960
he and a number of the other guys saw me

527
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,359
all the time taking pictures. So I saw Susa go

528
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,359
up to Monsoon and McMahon and kind of start whispering

529
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,359
to them, pointing at me, like, you know, that's the

530
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,920
photographer guy. You know what's he doing here? And even

531
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,680
though they didn't throw me out or tell me, you know,

532
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:34,599
I couldn't work, they put Soussa in the ring with me,

533
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,640
maybe to just kind of keep an eye on me.

534
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,720
I think, I think that's what happened. So worked with

535
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,799
Dusty and that was a big surprise for me as

536
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:46,559
well when they said I was going to be working

537
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,680
with Suser against Dusty, and we got our little meeting

538
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:53,920
and I was supposed to lose after four minutes or

539
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,759
whatever it was. So I didn't know what I was doing,

540
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:06,000
and you know, hit Dusty and it was a little

541
00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:08,119
stiff or whatever. So he threw Susa out of the

542
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,160
ring and started delivering bionic elbows as a shoot, not

543
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,359
as a work. And then I didn't know what I

544
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,359
was doing at all, and you know, every move that

545
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,319
I made was not professional. And one of the lines

546
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,039
McMahon used on TV, he used the name John Anthony

547
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,119
for that night, and he was I got a new

548
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,400
cover John Anthony A total lack of coordination here, and

549
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,640
the match ended with I couldn't even take a body slam,

550
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:40,160
so Dusty lifted me up like dead weight and threw

551
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,720
me on top of Susa and then basically sat on

552
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,039
my head to pin me.

553
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,079
Speaker 1: Oh, he's stacked you on top of Susan and then

554
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,119
sat on both of you guys.

555
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,559
Speaker 4: Well, he sat on my head like, you know, good

556
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,200
thing that I was lying face down on top of Susa,

557
00:30:57,319 --> 00:30:59,680
because I would hate to have imagined what would have

558
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,599
happened if I was face up and he sat on

559
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,960
my head at that point.

560
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard stories about that area in the Dusty words.

561
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,119
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, it was that.

562
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:11,839
Speaker 1: That was it.

563
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: That was my experience. And then I had worked a

564
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:20,720
second match that night, teaming with the Italian Noble then

565
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:24,279
from Sicily, Joe Turco and uh It was in a

566
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:28,319
tag team match with Chief j Strongbow and Peter Marvia.

567
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,359
And during that second matage before it started, I was

568
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,359
told that I could not enter the race.

569
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I don't remember a second match. Okay,

570
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:38,400
now it's making sense.

571
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's up on YouTube if anyone wants to

572
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,759
find it on the for Wrestling Spotlight channel. But I

573
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:47,000
was not allowed in the ring till the very end,

574
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,759
until the finish when I was finally able to get

575
00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,599
a tag with Turco and the Strongbow threw me in

576
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,759
over the top and threw me into the corner. My

577
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,240
Via gave me a head butt. I went down and

578
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:01,559
got the three count on me. And then on the

579
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,240
third taping of the night, I was supposed to work

580
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:10,000
with Bob Backland. Oh my goodness, wow, but they scrap

581
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:13,400
They scrapped me, and they just gave me my ninety

582
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,680
dollars and that was the end of it. It was

583
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,440
one hundred dollars for the night, but ten dollars had

584
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,119
to go to the Athletic Commission for my license, of course,

585
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:27,519
and that was it. And then the the most ironic

586
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,279
part of it was the next Madison Square Garden show,

587
00:32:31,319 --> 00:32:33,839
which was on February the twentieth. That's the night that

588
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:38,759
Backland beat Graham for the title. I take my spot

589
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:41,759
at ringside like I had done for years, you know,

590
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:44,319
two and a half three years at Madison Square Garden,

591
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:48,000
and I was pulled from ringside from Mel Phillips and

592
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:52,279
he said, you can't shoot pictures anymore? What And I

593
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,319
was like, he goes. I was like why, he goes, Well,

594
00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:59,799
you just wrestled for us, and you know you're in

595
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,559
the program. During the program, Georgia Napolitano took a picture

596
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:06,799
of me in strong Bow and they put he put

597
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,759
it in the program.

598
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: The program for that very night. Oh my god.

599
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that night, that famous program where Graham loses

600
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:15,720
the title of the back Land. I think Jimmy Carter

601
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,880
is on the cover of that program.

602
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:19,839
Speaker 2: I was in it.

603
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:24,079
Speaker 4: And then I was barred from Ringside and and that

604
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,200
was the end of me, at least for a couple

605
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,000
of years until I got after. You know, a lot

606
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:32,799
of time had passed to start shooting a few more

607
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:36,240
shows at the Garden and being able to shoot Ringside again.

608
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,599
It in Boston. But that was you know, that was

609
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,000
my story of Savannah Seusser and the night that I

610
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,680
decided to take my life in my hands and have

611
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,119
a temporary lapse of sanity and actually going to the

612
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,160
ring and do it. But fortunately they were TV tapings.

613
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:58,079
The matches exist. If I ever want to get a

614
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,319
good laugh, I'll just go to YouTube and watch it.

615
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: What a great story. So that was spectacular.

616
00:34:03,759 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: I take it down your your communications with Savanna was

617
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,440
sort of like that one night only. Did you kind

618
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,960
of track how he moved through the business and what

619
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,119
ended up happening to him.

620
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had reached out when I got back into

621
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:25,239
wrestling twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, around the pandemic, when I

622
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,480
started the when I started the podcast with Brian last

623
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,599
Pro Wrestling Spotlight then and Now right and then when

624
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:40,800
that when that went away, I started another podcast, and

625
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:46,199
I reached out to Savanna to do the show, and

626
00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:50,679
not knowing, you know, how much of a bad situation

627
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,800
he was in and homeless and sick, and we did

628
00:34:53,920 --> 00:35:00,199
communicate back and forth and he wasn't comfortable with doing it,

629
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:06,960
and then he tragically passed towards the end. Yeah, he

630
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,199
remembered me. He remembered that night, and it was good

631
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,199
to interact with him towards the end of his life.

632
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:18,280
And it was only via like Facebook, you know, but right,

633
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,440
it was it was a good ending to you know,

634
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:26,360
not being in communication with him since seventy eight, you.

635
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: Know, because we'd seen some indications yet, like you said,

636
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,480
he was kind of struggling and are these all these

637
00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:35,039
job guys that Hogan came across. He wrestled Slvano and

638
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,599
it was a pretty famous picture of him working him

639
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,159
in December of seventy nine. So we got curious about him.

640
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:42,239
And yeah, it was pretty well understood that he had

641
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,480
hard times. We even saw that he had he'd write

642
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:49,039
letters sometimes to Titan Towers seeking anything. I guess, right,

643
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:50,400
do you remember that. What did you hear about that?

644
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: If anything?

645
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was certainly looking for help, and in a

646
00:35:56,599 --> 00:36:01,199
cruel business, you don't get help, and that's the unfortunate

647
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,079
part of it. And his struggles towards the end, you know,

648
00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:06,119
from what I heard, he was living out of his car.

649
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,800
There were different different stories being told, and it just

650
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,239
saddens me because there were so many stories like that

651
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,119
about people who were in the business, and he was

652
00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:21,039
in it for many years that at the end that

653
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,159
there's no help right when you're down on your luck.

654
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,159
He's a heartless business, as we all know.

655
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 2: Heartless, that's the word. Precisely.

656
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:32,559
Speaker 1: When you got involved, John and certain you know, we're

657
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,320
able to be around the guys and take pictures and

658
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,360
be at the arenas and stuff. In the early seventies

659
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:40,920
or mid to late seventies. Did you sense that the

660
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:46,239
generation before that was particularly hard off as well, or

661
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,559
did this sort of like destitute, you know, fate for

662
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:51,960
some of these guys really only start kicking in in

663
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:54,519
the eighties and in late seventies. Or did you see

664
00:36:54,559 --> 00:36:56,679
guys from the thirties who were down on their luck

665
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:57,880
as well in the seventies.

666
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 4: No, I really didn't see the old old you know,

667
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,840
those that era before I was actively involved. None of

668
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,920
them were ever really around. Yeah, no one was around,

669
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,760
so you didn't know what happened to them. But certainly

670
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,360
the business was cruel in every generation up until the

671
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,960
current generation, because no one ever cared about what you did.

672
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,159
There were no benefits, there was no pension, there was

673
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,239
no nothing. And most of these guys, you know, we

674
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,199
get paid and paid in cash a lot of times,

675
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,400
and the money would be used to go to the

676
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:35,719
next town. And you have to pay your own trands.

677
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,280
You have to pay you you know, unless you were

678
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:41,440
up in the main event or the top tier of guys.

679
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,400
I mean, you'd have to fend for yourself with everything,

680
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,840
with meals, with hotels, with rental cars, with and that's

681
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,519
why there were so many guys that drove and then

682
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:52,000
at the end of the week, you know, what do

683
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:55,760
you have left? Right, and you go out drinking. And

684
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,960
at least in that era before all the drugs started

685
00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:03,960
taking prominence after the national expansion. But yeah, it was

686
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,079
a cruel business. And none of them ever looked like

687
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:07,760
I had money.

688
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing too, is they would get the Cadillac,

689
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,559
but they'd be living in Squalor.

690
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 4: Right, and most times they'd wind up living in it

691
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,559
living exactly.

692
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: You're not kidding, Well, I don't want to move on

693
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,800
a hulk John before without giving JP a chance to

694
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,360
compare notes, because, as he indicated, JP, you you felt

695
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,840
a similar It's that John felt in a seventy. He

696
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,639
didn't end up in the ring with Dusty Rhodes exactly.

697
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,719
But any questions on that, Yeah, well, I mean I

698
00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:37,159
just so I did a we have we have we

699
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,440
have listeners who who used to run a kind of

700
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,079
they well they run kind of a wrestling school and

701
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,800
they they would do intensives and I did two intensives

702
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,320
and then we would end up putting on a show

703
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,679
after the end of the weekend. There was just a

704
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,280
weekend long training and I just want like you said

705
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,719
you had nothing, and you just went in there like,

706
00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,639
oh man.

707
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 4: How hot nothing. I used to wrestle with my college buddies,

708
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:06,519
like they knew I was into wrestling. And here I

709
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:10,360
give you a backdrop in the hallway of the dorm

710
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,000
and then separate my shoulder when I landed.

711
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:15,599
Speaker 2: In the little building.

712
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 4: Perhaps, Uh, this was before Emerson. This was a Graham

713
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,559
Junior College the road that's where I started college and

714
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:24,800
then finished up in Emerson.

715
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,159
Speaker 2: Well, we actually, Jack and I would actually have some

716
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,599
wrestling matches in school, in public all over the place

717
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,480
that we'd film for our TV show that we had

718
00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:35,559
on on campus.

719
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I actually I actually had Graham Junior College

720
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,719
because everyone knew I was, you know, the wrestling guy.

721
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,400
And and I actually convinced the head of our TV

722
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,039
department instructor that let me let me do a you know,

723
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:56,679
a wrestling card in our little TV studio. So we

724
00:39:57,039 --> 00:40:02,159
assembled like three matches and and I went over against

725
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:04,920
one of those guys that was you know, we call

726
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,840
themselves a hillbilly, and but one of the like the

727
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,519
match after me. The guys went wild and they brought

728
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:14,519
ketch up, you know, like to squirt and catch up

729
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:17,000
on each other's foreheads, and they took it out of

730
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:21,159
the took it a little extreme, and they and they

731
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,639
h they were brawling. And then when one went into

732
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,119
the what they would call the psych which was a

733
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:32,079
big curtain that surrounded the studio and ripped it. Uh

734
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,639
So we caused damage in the studio and that show

735
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,880
never aired on the college TV stations. We all got

736
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,719
in trouble. But was see that was a precursor to

737
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,960
my match with Dusty.

738
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,039
Speaker 2: I mean, did you did you They didn't even teach

739
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:50,440
you how to bump or anything.

740
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,199
Speaker 4: No, I mean I didn't have any training. I didn't,

741
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,239
you know, I just went in. I didn't, you know.

742
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,840
All I knew was like we had the meeting and

743
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:01,840
this is what's gonna happen, and you're gonna lose after

744
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,360
four and you know, just kind of go with it,

745
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,199
and Dussy would tell us what to do. But in

746
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,760
that match, I wasn't even listening.

747
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 8: You know.

748
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 4: It's just kind of like I was in a I

749
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:13,280
was almost like a like a I was always like

750
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,760
an out of body experience totals. I never told anyone

751
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,119
I was going to do it. And then when I

752
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,000
showed up and and and went into the ring. Like

753
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:25,960
all my friends who were there, like wrestling fan friends

754
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,440
and Georgia Polatano who was there at ringside, and like

755
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:35,159
everyone was shocked when they saw me, like entering the ring. Yeah,

756
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,679
and I was kind of like, what am I doing?

757
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,199
Why am I here?

758
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,639
Speaker 2: Where did you get the gear from? You just to

759
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,519
borrow someone? Single?

760
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,199
Speaker 4: It was a place called K and H Wrestling Gear.

761
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,400
It was the place where everyone got their stuff. And

762
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:53,519
I got it, you know, single it, you know, Royal

763
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:55,360
blue single it in the boots.

764
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: And and uh so you came to the building with

765
00:41:58,119 --> 00:41:59,679
the gear. You just weren't sure that you were going

766
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,039
to get it's quote unquote booked.

767
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 4: Well, Ernie the Whiz said that, all right, you're on

768
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,199
the card, you know, so you have to go see

769
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,159
my You got to see monsoon. You get here and

770
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,960
got it. And he just looked at me and he

771
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,960
knew who I was, and he goes, where have you wrestled?

772
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,119
Speaker 8: You know?

773
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 4: I was like down south? He goes a heel? Or baby,

774
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:22,840
I was like a heel, let's say a heel. Because

775
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,320
I didn't want to go in, you know, I didn't

776
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,239
want to go in as a baby face, because who

777
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,880
knows who I'd be working It wouldn't be Terror, would

778
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,599
it be whoever. And I knew I was gonna get

779
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:34,920
really roughed up if if I was in there as

780
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,719
a baby face, and who knows who I'd be working against?

781
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,559
But the one I asked, I didn't even know who

782
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:41,639
I was wrestling. And I asked the Wiz to find out,

783
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,800
and he was like Dusty Rhoades, like, oh no.

784
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: A story.

785
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: So this opens up something for us, John, that we

786
00:42:51,039 --> 00:42:52,920
have wondered about for years on the show, right JP,

787
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:56,519
Like how do guys claim years later that they were

788
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:59,280
putting into the ring without really even being smartened up

789
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,199
to a significant degree, let alone knowing how to communicate

790
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,599
and take bumps? We watched these shows, John, and a

791
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:07,400
lot of these Jabroni's on the WWFTV tapings at this era.

792
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,599
They look worse than deer in headlights. They are sort

793
00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:14,360
of ghost walking around the ring like zombies, just bumping

794
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,480
into Hulk Hogan over and over again and just doing

795
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,039
two or three spots. And it just boggles our mind

796
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:20,840
that people would be put into a ring on a

797
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,320
television taping for a major circuit like New York, let

798
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,480
alone the smaller territories too, and just still claim years

799
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:29,920
later when they do interviews that they were in the

800
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,079
ring and did not know how it worked. That just

801
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:34,719
didn't make any sense to us. It doesn't compute to us.

802
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,719
But it sounds like that was kind of your story.

803
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 4: That's exactly what my story was. And maybe there are

804
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,039
a lot more guys like me who may have knew

805
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,239
somebody who wanted to give it a shot. Right, how

806
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,639
much harm could be done when you're told that you

807
00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:49,159
know you're not going to get in the offense in

808
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,159
any way. And my mistake was trying to get offense

809
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:56,440
in with Dusty and the first thirty forty seconds of

810
00:43:56,519 --> 00:43:58,400
the match, when I got them in the corner and

811
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:02,559
I just started name him, hitting him on top of

812
00:44:02,679 --> 00:44:07,440
the head, and he threw SUSA out of the ring,

813
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:08,960
and then he just grabbed me by the hair and

814
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,199
he says, I got to teach you a lesson.

815
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: Now did he say that figured you say it out loud?

816
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:15,559
Speaker 4: He said it in my ear.

817
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:16,639
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

818
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,159
Speaker 4: Ah, So I knew at that point I was probably

819
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:20,719
in trouble.

820
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're on the roller coaster. There's no turning back.

821
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:26,039
Speaker 4: But I did become a hero at my college.

822
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:29,559
Speaker 2: I was a hero because are you kidding?

823
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,679
Speaker 4: When the match aired in our lobby, there was a

824
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,960
TV setup, so like the entire dorm was down in

825
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:39,800
the lobby at eleven am so they could see their

826
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,639
their friend get his ass whipped by Dusty Rhodes. So

827
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,320
people were cheering, and like I said, I had about

828
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,480
fifteen to twenty seconds of all but and after that

829
00:44:52,639 --> 00:44:54,920
it was just kind of like I didn't you know,

830
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:57,400
it was just what it is, And anyone listening to

831
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,880
this you could watch it. It's there on YouTube. Just

832
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,880
go to Pro Wrestling Spotlight channel on YouTube and both

833
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:10,840
of those matches are up there with Fin's pickman On commentated,

834
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,320
you know this, BigMan commentated, Yeah, there's so much. Also

835
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,440
kind of surreal, knowing my relationship with him over the years,

836
00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:19,079
for the years.

837
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: When we help go there, Yeah, well let's go to

838
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,840
Hogan now. It was sort of it seemed to me

839
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,000
that if you got booted from photographing in February seventy eight,

840
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:30,280
that you wouldn't have been ringside when Hulk came in

841
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,280
November seventy nine. But knowing the territory as well as

842
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,000
you did, and watching every week and being a Rabbit

843
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,119
fan that knew it was like inside the garden and

844
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:43,400
felt the electricity of the Brunos, the superstars, the Bob Backlands.

845
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,199
Where did you perceive Hulk fitting in? Did he arrive

846
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,920
in New York with a fair degree of buzz from

847
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,920
people that were regulars in New York or was he

848
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:53,960
just like this completely new entity and this huge muscle guy.

849
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:55,840
What do you remember about his arrival?

850
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 4: He was a huge muscle guy. And they put him

851
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,880
with Blassy, who I was very close with because I

852
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,400
ran Freddy's fan club and oh that's right, yeah, I

853
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:12,199
ran Blassi's fan club nineteen seventy two right through seventy five. Wow,

854
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:17,639
And so fred was with him, and it just was

855
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,440
impressed with Hogan because of his you know, his charisma

856
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,000
or than anything else. And he had all that hair shape,

857
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:26,920
you know, he carved that hair on his chest and

858
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,480
he was just totally different. And I did get the opportunity,

859
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:33,400
I think, to shoot his first match at Madison Square

860
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,320
Garden with Blassi there, so I you know, I have

861
00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:41,679
those photographs and I think he was working with Renee Gulay.

862
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,000
If I'm not miss.

863
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:44,679
Speaker 1: First Match to the Garden was tedd to be AUSSI

864
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,960
in December seventy nine, but he did work Gulay in the.

865
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 4: Garden, so yeah, but it was probably that's the show

866
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,599
I went to because all right, you know, I hadn't

867
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:54,079
shot ringside at the Garden since I got tossed out

868
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:57,360
of the air in seventy eight. But I was able

869
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,440
to come back for that few shows, and by that

870
00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:03,440
time I was out of the business anyway. So but

871
00:47:03,519 --> 00:47:06,440
I do have photographs of Hogan. Got to meet him

872
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,719
backstage of blasting, and he was nice, you know, and

873
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,119
I had you know, that's what I remembered about him,

874
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,360
you know, and you just kind of knew that the

875
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,920
guy was kind of special, right sure, how far was

876
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
he going to be pushed? And eventually look what happened.

877
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:27,119
Speaker 1: Was there any awareness that he was Sterling Golden on

878
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:30,800
TBS or that he had actually even wrestled Andre in

879
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,239
Alabama when he first came in in early seventy nine.

880
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,760
Do you remember any knowledge among the fan base of

881
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:36,639
what he had done prior?

882
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:37,639
Speaker 7: No?

883
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 4: No, because at that time, after seventy eight, after I

884
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,119
had the entering experience and shot a few more times,

885
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:45,960
I was you know, getting ready to graduate from college

886
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:48,440
and move on with my life. And I kind of

887
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:50,920
saw wrestling as a place where it's like, all right,

888
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,199
I'm not going to wrestle, I'm not how much money?

889
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 7: You know?

890
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: What can I do? Can I survive on selling articles

891
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,079
and photographs for Ring Wrestling Magazine and getting fifty dollars

892
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:04,400
each time I published it? Had an article published? That

893
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,679
wasn't a way to make a living. And it was

894
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,840
such a closed industry that I would never be able

895
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,679
to get in. So I, you know, I focused my

896
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,119
attention on, you know, graduating and then getting a job

897
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:19,480
that I had wanted all my life was to work

898
00:48:19,519 --> 00:48:21,480
for the New York Mets. And I got hired and

899
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:24,239
got placed in the minor leagues in eighty one and.

900
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: Right in minor league and eighty one, and you were

901
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,320
doing what kind.

902
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:27,599
Speaker 2: Of work.

903
00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:32,039
Speaker 4: I was the I was doing all of it. You know,

904
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:36,719
It's like sales, marketing, announcing housing ballplayers. I was officially

905
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,400
the public relations director of the Class A South Atlantic

906
00:48:41,519 --> 00:48:44,719
League affiliated the New York Mets based in Shelby, North Carolina.

907
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: Excellent, got it? JP? Were you going to pipe in there? Sorry? No,

908
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:53,079
I was just I was just I was just grunting reacting.

909
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,800
That's all noises.

910
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: Odd Shae, because we just looked at the Shay Show,

911
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,480
John and what Hogan and Andre rib to do there,

912
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:03,079
and of course it was headlined by Zibisco and Bruno

913
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:04,880
and that was far and away that the main event

914
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,159
that night. But Hogan and Andre managed to create a

915
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:09,800
lot of buzz in that first year. Andre obviously had

916
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,119
you know, seen some success working with Hogan, as I

917
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:16,559
mentioned for Ron Fuller in Southeastern the spring of seventy

918
00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:19,280
nine when Hulk was completely brand new to the business

919
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,559
for all intents and purposes, he had done some handful

920
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,480
of matches in seventy seven for Reddy Graham and then

921
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:26,719
basically quit in seventy eight, ran a bar, what was

922
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,880
part of a management team at a bar in Coco Beach,

923
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,440
Florida with Ed Leslie, and then he got back in

924
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,960
the business in early seventy nine. But come the Shaye

925
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,440
Stadium show, your memories of that, your memories of how

926
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,559
big Hogan, Andre felt, Visa vi Zybisco Bruno. Obviously with

927
00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,360
your Mets connection, you know Shaye Stadium very well. What

928
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,360
can you tell us about you know, being a fan

929
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,079
at that time because we weren't We weren't watching. We

930
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:52,760
were infantile, if alive, not even I.

931
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,039
Speaker 4: Was following it and saw the lead up to that

932
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,239
Shay Card I was still watching on TV, of course,

933
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,840
even though it was actively involved. But I remember that

934
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,880
it was a pretty big deal. It was a very

935
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,440
big deal, not only the culmination of Zubisco Bruno, but

936
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,480
that Andre Hogan match. And I was not at the

937
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:16,920
Shay Stadium show, but I do remember the build up

938
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,199
and everything that happened after that. It was, as I said,

939
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,719
a pretty big deal.

940
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: Did they do a good job of making the fans

941
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,440
think Hogan had a chance or did everyone look at

942
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:28,679
it and Andre's going to kill this guy?

943
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 4: I would say that they pushed him where you thought

944
00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:40,559
maybe he could, you know, go over. But that's of

945
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:43,719
course not what happened. But and then, of course revision

946
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,519
is history years later, like it never happened, you know, I.

947
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 2: Ask you about that.

948
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, as someone was watching, you know, week to week

949
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,320
back then and saw Hogan come in the door, was

950
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,440
it strange disorienting for New York fans come eighty seven

951
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,280
when they start promoting Hogan and Andres having never wrestled

952
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,039
before having Andre having never been defeated, even though it

953
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:07,760
happened in the exact same company with Vince Junior there

954
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,159
on commentary. You know how disorienting and weird was that?

955
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,639
Or was it when they went with that sort of

956
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,000
marketing for WRESTLINGIA three?

957
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 4: Well, you got to realize at that point the fan

958
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:23,199
base that it turned over, right when the national expansion

959
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,840
took place in the Rock and Wrestling Connection and the

960
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,639
Cindi Laupers and Whoko Madia, And it was kind of

961
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,639
like all the fans that were now into wrestling were

962
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,679
not the same fans at least for the vast majority

963
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,639
of them, were not the same fans that remembered Hogan

964
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:44,320
Andre back in eighty. It was a different fan base,

965
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,280
and those others, you know, those others that had been

966
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,159
with them for years, those fans were just kind of

967
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:55,559
like outpriced, and it become more of a show, and

968
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,840
you know, the currentain was slowly being torn down a

969
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,599
little bit. So it was a whole new generation of

970
00:52:02,679 --> 00:52:05,760
people that began following and enjoying wrestling.

971
00:52:06,159 --> 00:52:09,039
Speaker 2: But you but you knew about the previous ones and

972
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:11,840
so like what like are you are you saying yourself, Oh,

973
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:12,760
They're so full of shit.

974
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was saying they were so full of shit

975
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,280
because exactly because it was revisionous history, everything was erased,

976
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,119
you know, everything pre Huolco mania was erased, right like

977
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:26,000
it never happened.

978
00:52:27,679 --> 00:52:28,159
Speaker 2: Was so crazy.

979
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: What was your feeling on Backland because you were there,

980
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,239
you know, as he built up to winning the belt,

981
00:52:33,199 --> 00:52:36,400
we talked to Zibisco, who was you know, he obviously

982
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,039
thought he could have the strap in eight and he

983
00:52:38,159 --> 00:52:40,920
talks down Backland's drawing ability and things like that, and

984
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,639
you look at the Garden attendance and Backlan did very well.

985
00:52:43,679 --> 00:52:45,599
I mean, it wasn't like he was like this precipitous

986
00:52:45,639 --> 00:52:47,920
drop off from Pedro or Bruno. Of course, who's going

987
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:48,800
to be bigger than Bruno?

988
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:49,039
Speaker 2: Right?

989
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: But could you give us a sense of what it

990
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:53,639
was like during Bob's ascension and how he was received.

991
00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:56,360
Did he feel big time box office despite you know,

992
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:57,199
being a little goofy.

993
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 4: I never thought that Backland was world championship caliber, got it,

994
00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:08,119
especially in New York. Maybe NWAA at the time, AWA,

995
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,039
maybe other federations, but certainly not in New York. And

996
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,039
I think that the biggest strategic mistake that was ever

997
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:19,880
made was not turning Billy Graham babyface during his because

998
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,440
people were cheering him more than booing him during his run.

999
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:26,039
But then Senior had that plan laid out that he

1000
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,199
wanted this all American type to win the title after

1001
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,960
Bruno decided to call it a day and Graham was

1002
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,920
the transitional champion, and when the deal was made, it

1003
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:39,599
was Graham knew he was going to win the title

1004
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:42,119
on this day and lose the title to Bacclin in

1005
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,800
February twenty seventy eight. But all the things that had

1006
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,960
happened during Billy Graham's run really indicated that they should

1007
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,639
have turned him babyface and he would have had a

1008
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,519
tremendous run as a champion. And Backlin just never resonated

1009
00:53:56,599 --> 00:53:59,880
to me because he didn't cut a good promo right.

1010
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:04,760
He was great, He was a great technical wrestler, but

1011
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:08,679
I didn't think he had what it took to win

1012
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,159
the title and especially to hold it as long as

1013
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:15,400
he did, even though the box office indicated that he

1014
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:18,599
was still a good draw. But back then there were

1015
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,320
others that were like drawing people in, like the Dusty

1016
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,199
Rhodes and Meil maskers and all the others that were

1017
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:29,880
kind of you know, the undercard big performers that were

1018
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,239
also box office straws.

1019
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point. He had a very

1020
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:37,840
strong supporting cast, perhaps more so than Bruno and Superstar did.

1021
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,039
But yeah, put me in the arena, John, I mean,

1022
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:42,679
you got to know Superstar very well. I mean, oh yeah,

1023
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,920
when did you start to feel like they shouldn't take

1024
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,639
the belt off the sky? Was it because were people

1025
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,599
cheering him as a baby face? Like it's hard for

1026
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,480
us to appreciate what it would have been like in

1027
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:53,360
the garden around Superstar.

1028
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 4: It was unlike anything I've ever seen. It rivaled the

1029
00:54:58,599 --> 00:54:59,519
reaction for Bruno.

1030
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: And even though he was a heel, Yeah, he didn't

1031
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,679
turned baby face and they were going nuts for him.

1032
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:07,800
What's that He hadn't turned baby face and they were

1033
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:08,719
going that nuts for him?

1034
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: Huh?

1035
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 4: He wasn't a baby face and they were going nuts

1036
00:55:12,039 --> 00:55:14,159
fro him. Yes, because he had Yeah, they loved him,

1037
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:16,639
you know, they love to hate him, but they loved him,

1038
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:24,280
and he drew more heat. I would say that Graham's

1039
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,639
heat was just off the chart, and the only thing

1040
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:30,280
I could compare it to during that ero was when

1041
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:35,239
Bruno and Spiros Arion had that historic format series where

1042
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,559
that was the most intense I had ever seen at

1043
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:42,119
the Garden in all my years covering it was Bruno

1044
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,760
Arion and intense.

1045
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: I mean, do people want it? Sounds to us watching

1046
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,480
these tapes back from the seventies, in particular early seventies

1047
00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:52,400
when Bruno did a comeback, these people, John, do they

1048
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,719
want blood? Do they want like, are they believing every

1049
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,679
single punch when Bruno's in there or SuperStar's in there,

1050
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:00,679
or they just kind of have as much fun as

1051
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,280
possible or is it like a different level of sort

1052
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:04,519
of like bloodlust?

1053
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:05,159
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

1054
00:56:05,639 --> 00:56:09,679
Speaker 4: Different level people thought it was real. The vast majority,

1055
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,679
I would have to say, eighty percent wow new that

1056
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,119
well thought it was real, and the other twenty percent

1057
00:56:17,199 --> 00:56:20,039
knew but still loved it. But the heat that was

1058
00:56:20,119 --> 00:56:22,800
generated back then, you you know, you haven't seen since

1059
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,320
that time period really, I mean, it was it was explosive.

1060
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,159
It was every main event was explosive. And I was

1061
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,039
fortunate enough to, you know, even to take a lot

1062
00:56:35,079 --> 00:56:40,320
of film footage back then, even pre photography days. I'd

1063
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,000
sit as a fourteen year old and shoot matches on

1064
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:47,000
eight milimeter camera like Andre's first match at the Garden

1065
00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:51,599
and Pedro Morales and all those great Everyone thought it

1066
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,119
was real, and it was a very mixed ethnic audience,

1067
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:01,400
especially when Morales had the title. It was probably Puerto

1068
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:08,079
Ricans and Pedro Morales could never even lose the account

1069
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:10,760
out of the Garden because they'd fear a riot. Wow,

1070
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,679
that's how intense it was. When Pedro would be getting hummeled,

1071
00:57:15,199 --> 00:57:17,639
whether it was by Blassie or Don Leo Jonathan or

1072
00:57:17,719 --> 00:57:20,320
King Curtis or whoever he was in the ring with

1073
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:25,639
the fans wanted blood. I mean they would be going crazy.

1074
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,360
And the same thing when Bruno came back and won

1075
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,119
the title. It was life or death for the fans

1076
00:57:32,239 --> 00:57:35,679
watching their hero and hoping that he'd win.

1077
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,199
Speaker 1: That's sep that's what it seems like. It's it's amazing,

1078
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,239
and that's what we pined for, is the days where

1079
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:43,760
that was possible, you know, And it's nobody's fault that

1080
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,920
wrestling can't feel like that anymore. I think it's probably

1081
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,039
inevitable that at some point people would get smart to it,

1082
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:52,800
especially in the digital information age. But my god, John,

1083
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,239
I mean, can you blame anybody for wishing it was

1084
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,920
still like that. That's a that's not a controversial statement.

1085
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,039
I mean, how much better or was wrestling in that context?

1086
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 4: No comparison. I mean, you know, now you know everything

1087
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,000
you have, you know, you have the documentaries, you got

1088
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:12,519
the series of Unreal and everything is out in the open,

1089
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:17,320
and that transition really started to happen, you know, after

1090
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,079
newsletters and my shows like micro Wrestling Spotlight from eighty

1091
00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:25,119
nine to ninety five, where you know, the curtain was

1092
00:58:25,239 --> 00:58:29,840
torn down. But once people are getting smart to the business,

1093
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,320
and once the business didn't care about keeping people out

1094
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,679
of the know and making sure everybody knew that it

1095
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:45,480
was it was not, you know, true real competition that

1096
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,920
you know, even though it became immensely popular, and look

1097
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,920
at the money that's being made today. That feeling when

1098
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:57,519
you're in that arena and you see these fans going

1099
00:58:58,079 --> 00:59:04,599
absolutely crazy, it was unlike anything I ever experienced in

1100
00:59:04,719 --> 00:59:08,559
that excitement and that electricity and that energy. I remember

1101
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,960
like it was yesterday, and it was a glorious time

1102
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:12,639
for the business.

1103
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: When they would do TVs in Pennsylvania, Hamburg, Allentown, it

1104
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,079
strikes us a lot going back and watching this stuff

1105
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,159
that well, the people were absolutely nuts. At the Philly

1106
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:25,159
Spectrum of the Boston Garden or Madison Square Garden, those

1107
00:59:25,239 --> 00:59:27,599
tapings were kind of subdued, you know, the crowds were

1108
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:30,000
sort of observing it. I don't know, dare I say,

1109
00:59:30,239 --> 00:59:31,800
unless there was a really hot angle, almost like a

1110
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,320
Japanese audience, where they're like just watching this display of wrestling.

1111
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 8: And yeah, I.

1112
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,159
Speaker 4: Agreed to some point, but I disagree as well, because

1113
00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:44,199
you got to realize that when you're doing TV, you

1114
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,719
don't have competitive matches. For the most part, that's true.

1115
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,360
You have jobbers. You have jobbers putting guys over, making

1116
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,960
them look good. And the promos were you know, the

1117
00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:57,119
promos were classic and unforgettable. But when you had tag

1118
00:59:57,199 --> 01:00:02,840
team and the main title was never switched on TV,

1119
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,559
but tag team titles were good point and tag team

1120
01:00:06,639 --> 01:00:09,559
titles when let's say, for example, when Jimmy and Johnny

1121
01:00:09,639 --> 01:00:12,480
Valley and the Value Brothers beat Dean Ho and Tony Goria,

1122
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,639
the place was phenomenal. And then when you know, when

1123
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,199
Rocky Johnson, even when Rocky Johnson and Tony Atlas one title,

1124
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,559
the fans were going crazy. When you had a competitive match,

1125
01:00:26,599 --> 01:00:29,760
and then the rare situations when Bruno would wrestle on TV.

1126
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,880
The place was explosive, got it. And the only ones

1127
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,800
that I really saw back then that would just rile

1128
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:41,159
the fans up to this intense heat was when Blassy

1129
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,679
would come to the ring, when he had his little

1130
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,119
runs there in seventy one and then seventy three. There

1131
01:00:47,159 --> 01:00:51,119
were guys that just electrified the crowd. But when you

1132
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,519
had a competitive match, that's when the fans would jump

1133
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:54,159
on their feet.

1134
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, you're right those I can picture the wooden

1135
01:00:58,559 --> 01:00:59,960
chair over the Simoones head and eighty three.

1136
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,199
Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, I look at the fans. They were going,

1137
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:04,920
they were going out of their minds, were out of

1138
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:05,440
their minds.

1139
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: The as the one thing, what what what? What we've

1140
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,360
noticed too in watching the different matches is that especially

1141
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:20,760
obviously with with Hogan, is watching Hogan play in front

1142
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,360
of a small television crowd and then play in front

1143
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,199
of Madison Square Garden and Philly and how it's a

1144
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,880
night and day performance. Like sometimes we watch these these

1145
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,960
TV tapings and it's kind of like, yeah, he's big

1146
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:37,079
and he's strong, but he he looks like a log

1147
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:39,840
out there, like he's not. He's not a mooting he's

1148
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,519
not there's nothing, you know, there's no there's no sense

1149
01:01:43,559 --> 01:01:45,800
of excitement and passion. But then you put them in

1150
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,800
a big arena and it's like it's night and day.

1151
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:51,599
Speaker 4: Well, when you're on TV, how could you rile the

1152
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:55,559
fans up? And how can you as a performer give

1153
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:58,159
your all when you're wrestling guys like John Anthony.

1154
01:01:58,719 --> 01:02:02,639
Speaker 2: Right, I'm not saying les get let's give them given all,

1155
01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:05,639
but like there's just a it's just a different of expression,

1156
01:02:05,719 --> 01:02:09,840
like I feel nothing from from him versus when he's.

1157
01:02:09,719 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 4: On Free It was like it was like you just

1158
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:14,639
going through the motions for them.

1159
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

1160
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:21,199
Speaker 1: Back to relative to uh Fred Blassie, you mentioned him again,

1161
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:23,199
I'm glad you did, because I did want to ask you, uh,

1162
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,039
you know, being close to Blassie as you were running

1163
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:26,440
his fan club and knowing him kind of on a

1164
01:02:26,519 --> 01:02:29,239
personal level, did you ever get any sense of how

1165
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,119
he felt about Hulk and and managing him. And it

1166
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:34,320
was really interesting that Hulk, you know, he really wasn't

1167
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,199
a strong promo, but he could cut a promo coming

1168
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,719
in He had done it in Memphis and in Alabama,

1169
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,800
beforehand and Georgia. Yet they put him with a mouthpiece

1170
01:02:42,599 --> 01:02:44,840
and they would you know, maybe seventy percent Blasty, thirty

1171
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,800
percent hulk. H How did Blassie feel about serving that

1172
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,760
role for this this newcomer.

1173
01:02:50,119 --> 01:02:52,159
Speaker 4: Well, that was that was just the business model back then,

1174
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,639
that you put the heels with a mouthpiece, especially if

1175
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:58,159
they were getting a push. And in all my conversation

1176
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,440
with Fred and it was just another guy that they

1177
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,920
put him with, right, it was not like it was

1178
01:03:03,039 --> 01:03:06,559
not unlike any of the other guys that Blassie had managed,

1179
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:11,239
whether it was Arion or wolbov On Eric or any

1180
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:16,320
of those guys that Blassie took on. Blassie just did

1181
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,000
his job. He was a great mouthpiece. And and it

1182
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:24,639
did surprise me when Blassie was assigned to Hogan just

1183
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:28,800
because of you know, Hogan was not a traditional Blassy guy,

1184
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,639
because most of Blassie's guys were from a different country.

1185
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, foreign menace, Yeah, that's true. How about Bruno

1186
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,079
and Superstar, You got to know both of them very well.

1187
01:03:39,159 --> 01:03:42,079
They were They did some very memorable interviews with you

1188
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,639
during the scandal era of w w F on your

1189
01:03:44,639 --> 01:03:47,880
spotlight show, and you knew them from the garden. Bruno

1190
01:03:48,039 --> 01:03:50,559
and Graham, how do they feel about Hulk in the

1191
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:53,239
final analysis. I know with Graham he had ups and

1192
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,840
downs with Hulk, but you know they went way back too.

1193
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:57,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1194
01:03:58,199 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. On the Graham side, it was just kind of

1195
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,199
like he looked at Hogan as someone who really stole

1196
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:10,000
was gimmick, yes, and Bruno just just didn't like Hogan.

1197
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:13,800
He just didn't think that he was good for wrestling.

1198
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,519
He was a showman more than a wrestler. And it

1199
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:21,920
was kind of in that space where Bruno hated the

1200
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,280
way that business was, the direction the business was going into,

1201
01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:29,880
so he never had anything kind to say about Hogan

1202
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,360
and Graham the same thing.

1203
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,159
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I certainly haven't heard a lot.

1204
01:04:38,199 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like because Superstar had the bodybuilding

1205
01:04:41,079 --> 01:04:43,880
thing going and Hull kind of got to meet him

1206
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:46,599
in Florida when he was also playing bass guitar and

1207
01:04:46,679 --> 01:04:49,159
training to wrestle. He gives Graham credit for kind of

1208
01:04:49,199 --> 01:04:52,239
making the introduction for his first break in seventy nine.

1209
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,920
And of course we know Graham was out there in

1210
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,159
public on your show and other forums calling out Hogan

1211
01:04:57,239 --> 01:04:58,920
for steroid use in the early nineties.

1212
01:04:59,199 --> 01:05:02,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But and also Hogan was

1213
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:07,039
you know, Hogan stole all of Billy's even in ring

1214
01:05:07,159 --> 01:05:09,199
moves for the most you know, pointing to the crowd,

1215
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,000
putting his ear up to you know, his hand up

1216
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:14,679
to his ear. Graham did the same exact thing.

1217
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:15,199
Speaker 2: Mm hm.

1218
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:18,519
Speaker 4: You know, so all even the even the promo style

1219
01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:19,480
in a lot of ways.

1220
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:22,199
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, you can tell it was.

1221
01:05:22,599 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 4: Hogan stole so much from Billy that it was you know,

1222
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:33,559
it was laughable. Graham was the original and Hogan just

1223
01:05:33,639 --> 01:05:35,800
kind of you know, with the push that McMahon gave him.

1224
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,880
And and I guess that's why Billy was so bitter

1225
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:42,800
most of his life after leaving, is because that could

1226
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:43,320
have been him.

1227
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:45,039
Speaker 2: I wanted to get to that.

1228
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:48,679
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned how they were closed minded to

1229
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:51,599
Superstar having a babyface run in seventy eight. I mean,

1230
01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:54,880
it sounds to me like if they had been bought

1231
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,800
in on just going with Superstars a babyface and following

1232
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,679
the crowd, that we we would have seen what Hogan

1233
01:06:00,719 --> 01:06:03,400
did in eighty four just with Superstar in seventy eight.

1234
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,599
I mean not to say it would have been to

1235
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:06,679
the same heights and that he would have got the

1236
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:09,360
same media profile. But I think the fans would have

1237
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:12,440
reacted to Superstar as a babyface champion just like they

1238
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:13,559
did Hogan in eighty four.

1239
01:06:13,639 --> 01:06:18,159
Speaker 4: No, yeah, I totally agree with that. But here's the

1240
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,280
caveat why that didn't happen is because Vince McMahon, Vincent

1241
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,719
Kennedy McMahon was not running the company. His father was right,

1242
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,760
and his father had a whole different way of looking

1243
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:34,360
at the wrestling business than his son did. So the

1244
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,280
traditionalist that Vince Senior was and the innovator that Vince

1245
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,800
Junior was was evident, and that Vince Junior was running

1246
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,840
the show back during Graham's reign, he would have pushed

1247
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:51,679
I'm confident he would have pushed Graham as he did

1248
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,519
Hogan back in eighty four when he took the when

1249
01:06:55,559 --> 01:06:56,800
he got the company from his father.

1250
01:06:57,119 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1251
01:06:57,559 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I was sort of saying, if It's

1252
01:07:00,039 --> 01:07:02,199
Junior had the book in seventy eight, you know, he

1253
01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:04,199
could have run the playbook with with Superstar.

1254
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,159
Speaker 4: Would have been a different story. Would have been a

1255
01:07:06,159 --> 01:07:06,719
different story.

1256
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1257
01:07:08,119 --> 01:07:10,719
Speaker 1: You mentioned some of the lifting of the promo style.

1258
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,440
I mean that is so evan. As we marched through

1259
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,039
all the promos helped it in his earliest days. I mean,

1260
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:17,880
he is trying actively to sound like Billy Graham. And

1261
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,480
he wouldn't deny that either, at least in later years

1262
01:07:20,519 --> 01:07:21,559
he would he would he would.

1263
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: Cop to that, so to speak.

1264
01:07:22,719 --> 01:07:24,679
Speaker 1: But also there's the Austin Iidel factor. I don't know

1265
01:07:24,719 --> 01:07:27,079
how much you were able to get eyes on Austin.

1266
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 2: Idel back then, but I did. I did have eyes

1267
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:30,639
on him idle Mania and all that.

1268
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:33,159
Speaker 1: Is it more Austin Idol than Billy Graham, more Billy

1269
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:34,039
Graham than Austin Idol?

1270
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:35,679
Speaker 2: Fifty to fifty? What would you observe?

1271
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,039
Speaker 4: I would say it was about it could have been

1272
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:39,000
a fifty to fifty.

1273
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,159
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, what about Austin Idol Because we don't

1274
01:07:42,159 --> 01:07:43,079
have as much tape of him.

1275
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: Do you remember him doing that? Hult copied.

1276
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:48,639
Speaker 4: I was kind of baud of it. And when he

1277
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:53,280
worked for Www. Is Mike McCory, Yeah, as iron Ike McCord.

1278
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:56,360
And he was big and he was you know, muscular,

1279
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,639
and he was always thought that he deserved a much

1280
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:02,440
bigger pushed and he'd gotten back then because he saw

1281
01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:05,320
the potential in him. You saw that this guy had it,

1282
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,440
he could be a big star, but for whatever reasons,

1283
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,239
he was not pushed and made his name his name

1284
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:15,119
in other territories other than New York.

1285
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,159
Speaker 2: All right, very good. So relative to.

1286
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,159
Speaker 1: Graham and watching Hulk come up, you know, with the

1287
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:26,800
with the gimmick, with the a lot of the mannerisms

1288
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,960
and things like that, come ninety one or ninety pardon my,

1289
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,439
my fogginess, when you would have had Graham on to

1290
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:36,640
talk about the steroid stuff. Is he personally going after Hulk?

1291
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,039
Is he personally more going after Vince?

1292
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:39,239
Speaker 7: Like?

1293
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,119
Speaker 1: How much is Hulk an animating force in what he's saying?

1294
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:44,760
Or was Hulk just the guy who happened to be

1295
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:46,359
on top when he felt like it was time to

1296
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,079
call out steroid abuse and wrestling.

1297
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 4: Well, I think the way it really started, and you know,

1298
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,960
Billy's not here to talk about it or defend it

1299
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:57,319
or even expound on it. But when Billy came onto

1300
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:00,800
my show in March of ninety it was to talk

1301
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:07,840
about what steroids had done to him, how you know,

1302
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:11,399
all of the health problems and how dangerous steroids was

1303
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,039
and whatever the angle was Billy was pushing at the

1304
01:09:14,119 --> 01:09:20,039
time because Billy always had an angle. Oh yeah, that

1305
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,800
was the that was the beginning of you know, him

1306
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,760
trying to call attention out. And I had him on

1307
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,720
my show and it was a heartfelt at the time.

1308
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,560
I thought it was totally sincere and heartfelt that he

1309
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,479
was now coming out to say that these wrestlers were

1310
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,239
on steroids. Nothing was being done about it, and the

1311
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:47,760
long term health implications were not you know, we're it

1312
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:49,840
was a dead end. You were going to you were

1313
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:53,039
going to mess yourself up if it long term steroid use.

1314
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:58,439
And that was what happened. And then after Zaharian was

1315
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:05,600
arrested and this scandals started to emerge, That's when that's

1316
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:11,840
when Billy became more vocal and and then it really

1317
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:16,479
started exploding towards the end of ninety early ninety one,

1318
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,159
and then well ninety one was the trial of Zaharian,

1319
01:10:22,279 --> 01:10:25,039
and of course Billy got all of that publicity back then,

1320
01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:30,520
and then it led to Hogan on Arsenio and Hogan

1321
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,399
lying and Billy. You know, then it just turned into

1322
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:37,439
a media circus with accusations and then Billy would expound

1323
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,319
on things that you know, weren't one hundred percent true either.

1324
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and he would cop to those in

1325
01:10:42,239 --> 01:10:44,319
this book later and maybe a little bit of an

1326
01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:46,359
extra selling on the limp when he took the stand

1327
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:47,439
on the Zahorian trial.

1328
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 4: It was it was kind of interesting to see how

1329
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,359
I picked I picked Billy up at the airport, and

1330
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,680
he was struggling, but he was not you know, he

1331
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,399
kind of you know, worked it as well.

1332
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:57,119
Speaker 9: Right.

1333
01:10:57,279 --> 01:10:59,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what you get with the wrestling community.

1334
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 2: For sure. With Billy.

1335
01:11:02,079 --> 01:11:04,119
Speaker 1: Did he hate help till the very end as far

1336
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:06,840
as you know, there was.

1337
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,319
Speaker 4: No law love loss there towards the end and not

1338
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:13,760
at all. I mean, look the way Billy ended and

1339
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:19,560
Billy you know, was in favor, out of favor, said lies,

1340
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,079
came back and apologized. I mean it was just Billy

1341
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:27,479
was doing everything to remain relevant and I hope that

1342
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,279
people would help him financially.

1343
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:32,279
Speaker 2: That's right.

1344
01:11:32,399 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that was sort of like sort of like

1345
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:37,640
a proto GoFundMe. He was always on a GoFundMe campaign,

1346
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:38,439
you know, not he was.

1347
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, but he had, you know, all these struggles

1348
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:44,600
and he wasn't taken care of like nobody was, because

1349
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,800
there wasn't you know, the retirement fund or health there

1350
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,520
was nothing. Yeah, these guys of fended for themselves, and

1351
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,640
when you were out, you were out, and you were

1352
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:56,720
forgotten and who cared? You know, You're just another wrestler

1353
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,800
that we used and spit out and.

1354
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:01,119
Speaker 2: See you later.

1355
01:12:02,079 --> 01:12:04,279
Speaker 1: Was it hard for you to accept that Hulk was

1356
01:12:04,359 --> 01:12:07,560
the guy that was or was it like undeniable or

1357
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,880
because you had known him before in a prior iteration

1358
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,520
and he was much more limited. It was kind of like,

1359
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,760
I can't buy this guy as the best wrestler.

1360
01:12:15,239 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 4: No, I never he had the charisma and obviously all

1361
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,960
the mainstream publicity and everything that happened with the marketing

1362
01:12:21,079 --> 01:12:27,199
and Vince McMahon turning it into this mainstream entertainment show.

1363
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,520
But I but I but once the steroids stuff, once

1364
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,359
that knowledge started and you saw these guys in the

1365
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,439
ring and the guys that were being pushed who were

1366
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:41,399
just extremely huge and on obviously on steroids, that's when

1367
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:46,800
my you know, my love for the business dissipated. And

1368
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,600
all I was trying to do after I started the

1369
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,800
radio show was to kind of call attention to the

1370
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:56,880
you know, the good stuff in the business, but also

1371
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,520
the bad stuff in the business. The way wrestlers retreated.

1372
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:07,359
The way these guys were being kind of not you know,

1373
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:10,079
no one put a gun to their head, but when

1374
01:13:10,119 --> 01:13:12,199
you're told, you know, you got to see the doctor,

1375
01:13:13,119 --> 01:13:17,960
as was told to Rick Rude, to get bigger. These

1376
01:13:18,039 --> 01:13:21,000
were the ways wrestlers were being pushed. And the bigger

1377
01:13:21,039 --> 01:13:22,880
you are, the bigger the push you were going to get.

1378
01:13:23,079 --> 01:13:27,199
And that's what I that's when I really started to

1379
01:13:27,279 --> 01:13:30,039
have a strong dislike for the entire industry. It was

1380
01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:32,560
when I saw what was going on and that nothing

1381
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:38,000
was being done to promote and to push performers who

1382
01:13:38,039 --> 01:13:42,880
actually were good wrestlers and had good promo skills. It

1383
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,239
seemed like if you were a big monster, you were

1384
01:13:45,279 --> 01:13:48,319
getting the push, and then everybody was on them too.

1385
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,640
So it was just just turned the business into this

1386
01:13:52,039 --> 01:13:56,640
into this place of like, look at it, it's a circus.

1387
01:13:57,319 --> 01:13:58,720
It's not what I knew growing up.

1388
01:13:59,520 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1389
01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's great to get that perspective again from you, John,

1390
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,600
because we can watch the tapes, but to talk to

1391
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,399
someone who paid very close attention and that actually got

1392
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:10,680
sort of on the inside of the businesses, there's no

1393
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:11,439
substitute for that.

1394
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:11,640
Speaker 2: Well.

1395
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: I want to close by asking you about something I

1396
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,760
think epitomizes the factors you're talking about when this all

1397
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,439
went down. Hogan and Andre the first time they wrestled

1398
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:22,560
in Shay and they rematched in the Garden on September

1399
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,039
twenty second, nineteen eighty. I wasn't the headliner that night.

1400
01:14:25,079 --> 01:14:28,039
The headliner that night was Harley Rays versus Bob Backland,

1401
01:14:28,159 --> 01:14:30,479
NWA Champion versus WWF Champion.

1402
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: It boggles the.

1403
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: Mind when you consider, you know, Vince Junior's reputation for

1404
01:14:35,119 --> 01:14:37,560
never acknowledging the existence of any other champion or the

1405
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:39,880
NWA at all. To see him sit there at the

1406
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,439
tapings and extol the virtues of Harley Race as a

1407
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,279
world champion, you know, perhaps on par with Bob Becklin.

1408
01:14:45,319 --> 01:14:47,199
That there's an argument as to which is superior, and

1409
01:14:47,279 --> 01:14:51,920
it's happening on WWFTV and it's headlining Madison Square Garden.

1410
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,319
Speaker 2: That's part of what was lost as well.

1411
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,399
Speaker 1: Could you go back maybe to that and how the

1412
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,439
WWF fans in New York thought about the NWA World

1413
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,920
Champion not as sort of an adversary or somebody who

1414
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,079
was a pretender, but as someone who could show up

1415
01:15:05,079 --> 01:15:07,600
at the Garden and potentially beat the WWF champion.

1416
01:15:09,039 --> 01:15:11,039
Speaker 4: And you're talking about what year again, this would.

1417
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,159
Speaker 2: Have been nineteen eighty as well Harley had come in.

1418
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was when WWWF was really part of NWA, right,

1419
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,199
and that was Vince McMahon, I mean, in that NWA

1420
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:28,079
Championship was kind of the real world championship if you

1421
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:30,920
were a fan, I mean all the magazine, NWA was

1422
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:37,159
the world champion, even though the WWWF title it was

1423
01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:41,680
a regional title, it wasn't a world title. NWA. I mean,

1424
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,199
guy like Harley Race went all over the country and

1425
01:15:44,279 --> 01:15:49,079
around the world defending that title, where the WWWF title

1426
01:15:49,199 --> 01:15:52,680
was just really regional. So when you had that opportunity

1427
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,720
to bring the NWA champion against the WWWF champion at

1428
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,239
the time, that was a big deal because it was

1429
01:16:00,359 --> 01:16:03,720
kind of like, Wow, maybe we're seeing something that would

1430
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:08,359
be on a regular basis where an NWA champion started

1431
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:12,319
to wrestle more at the guard and integrate himself into

1432
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:16,479
the Northeast. So as a fan a student of the

1433
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:20,119
of the of the business even back then, that was exciting.

1434
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:25,000
So yeah, Hogan being on the undercard that main event

1435
01:16:25,399 --> 01:16:28,760
was justified. Would Race versus back.

1436
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,159
Speaker 1: On Yeah, I think as fans that came along later

1437
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,640
post the national expansion, just to think of the fact

1438
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,199
that the belt was called the Worldwide Wrestling Federation Belt,

1439
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,439
that that the fans kind of thought of it as

1440
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,359
a world title on par with the NBA title. But

1441
01:16:41,399 --> 01:16:43,479
you're saying even in New York they saw the NWA

1442
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:45,159
titles as a degree bigger.

1443
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. I would say one hundred percent of them, right.

1444
01:16:49,079 --> 01:16:51,239
I'm so there was a good majority of them that

1445
01:16:51,359 --> 01:16:54,479
were like because everybody read the magazines back then, you know,

1446
01:16:55,079 --> 01:16:58,640
the wrestling magazines, and they would be pushing the world

1447
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:02,600
championship at the time was was whoever? The NWA champion

1448
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,119
was great stuff.

1449
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:06,399
Speaker 1: Well, wrapping up here, John, I'd love your thoughts on

1450
01:17:07,279 --> 01:17:10,520
your reaction to the passing of Hulk Hogan. All that

1451
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,319
you you know, the many different vantage points you observed

1452
01:17:13,359 --> 01:17:14,960
him from in his in his life and times, and

1453
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,199
the people you talk to about him and talking to him.

1454
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:20,640
What was what went through your mind? What was your

1455
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:22,479
reaction when you heard he passed away last August.

1456
01:17:23,359 --> 01:17:27,119
Speaker 4: I was sad, and you know he passed way too young.

1457
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,119
But once again, you got to look at those years

1458
01:17:31,159 --> 01:17:33,520
of steroid a Brouce to kind of say, well, maybe

1459
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,800
that had something to do with it, but it was

1460
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,359
it was sad to see that, you know, a guy

1461
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:44,359
that actually for insider insiders knew what this guy was

1462
01:17:44,399 --> 01:17:48,840
all about. It was sad to see him passing. And

1463
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:56,520
I did watch the four part documentary, which was good

1464
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,319
at a lot of points in it, but also a

1465
01:17:59,399 --> 01:18:01,239
bunch of garb which it was a bunch of lies.

1466
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 2: We call it The Incomplete Hulkgan.

1467
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was. And but it was sad. It

1468
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:08,720
was totally sad because he meant so much to so

1469
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,560
many people who grew up with him during that era.

1470
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,079
You know, he was hul Cogan, he was Whokee Mania,

1471
01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:16,800
he was the guy. He was the invincible one, and

1472
01:18:18,079 --> 01:18:22,840
and and towards the end of that life and a career,

1473
01:18:24,119 --> 01:18:26,000
it actually hurt when I saw him getting booed at

1474
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:30,000
the Garden and in that last where it was la

1475
01:18:30,079 --> 01:18:35,000
maybe then I then I watched that show and I

1476
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:39,840
was kind of like, uh, it may be uncomfortable because

1477
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,239
of what he did mean to the business for those

1478
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:45,760
big monster years that he had.

1479
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think he should have kept

1480
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,439
out of the expressing his political opinions.

1481
01:18:53,279 --> 01:18:57,159
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Yeah, because hey, listen, no matter what your political

1482
01:18:57,279 --> 01:19:02,920
viewpoints are, you're going to alienate, right, fifty or seventy percent,

1483
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,920
depending on what side your art and what you believe,

1484
01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:08,479
you're going to annlienate too many people. And when he

1485
01:19:09,359 --> 01:19:11,560
made it a point and that's the other thing, was

1486
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,119
that sincere or was he just promoting the beer right?

1487
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 8: Right?

1488
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:16,319
Speaker 2: Exactly?

1489
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 4: But you don't you don't even know, you don't even know,

1490
01:19:19,239 --> 01:19:21,199
like you know, he's is he to get the rub

1491
01:19:21,279 --> 01:19:25,159
from uh, from Donald Trump and that and that and

1492
01:19:25,279 --> 01:19:28,439
that audience and he's promoting real American beer? Was you know,

1493
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:32,199
was that a strategic thing that he said, well, I'm

1494
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:34,760
going to get the rub now because I'm promoting this

1495
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:39,279
beer company and uh, and so it backfired in a

1496
01:19:39,359 --> 01:19:39,880
major way.

1497
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have of all the things he fixed himself

1498
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:44,840
to just to get you know, uh.

1499
01:19:45,039 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 4: That's a bad lasting, that's that's a bad last appearance. Yeah,

1500
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:52,640
the timing everything he did in his life, in his career,

1501
01:19:53,359 --> 01:19:59,239
that that finale of his of his public run that

1502
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:03,600
night was sad and you look at poor Jimmy Hart

1503
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,439
didn't know what the hell was going on, and it

1504
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:08,159
just I wish it never happened.

1505
01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 2: What did you make of him in the documentary talking

1506
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,680
about how he loved being booed and saying he could

1507
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,479
work at last, work at crowd one more time in

1508
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:17,800
La as a heel.

1509
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 4: Well, that was a why Yeah, he wanted to be cheered.

1510
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:24,560
That was like, you know, he wasn't going to be

1511
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,600
working or wrestling, but who you know, it wasn't nw al,

1512
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,119
It wasn't how great that angle was when he turned

1513
01:20:32,199 --> 01:20:35,800
heel for the very first time after the after whopal Mania.

1514
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:41,479
But I think that was just bullshit because he didn't

1515
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:43,399
want to get booed, and you could tell that he

1516
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:45,479
was like, holy shit, they're booing me.

1517
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:47,600
Speaker 2: That's right. That's kind of the sad to me that

1518
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,279
that's also one of the one of the sad things

1519
01:20:50,319 --> 01:20:53,359
about the business, how you can't It's like, why couldn't

1520
01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:55,399
he just say in that documentary, you know what, it hurt,

1521
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,199
it's stung, Yes, be honest, But he couldn't do it.

1522
01:20:59,319 --> 01:21:00,680
He had to had to play it off.

1523
01:21:01,079 --> 01:21:04,079
Speaker 4: He could never be honest, and that's that's the most

1524
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:07,640
tragic thing about the life that this man led and had.

1525
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:10,600
He could never be honest. He could never just say

1526
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,039
I was Hulk Hogan. I was the best at during

1527
01:21:14,119 --> 01:21:17,000
this time period. I drew more money than anyone ever did.

1528
01:21:17,359 --> 01:21:21,800
I sold more merchandise than anyone ever did. And he

1529
01:21:22,279 --> 01:21:25,680
he just couldn't and be honest, he couldn't leave it

1530
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:25,920
at that.

1531
01:21:26,119 --> 01:21:28,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

1532
01:21:28,199 --> 01:21:30,199
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you quickly, did you ever,

1533
01:21:30,319 --> 01:21:32,359
in all your time covering all the scandals and everything,

1534
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:34,119
seek comment from Hulk himself?

1535
01:21:34,319 --> 01:21:34,359
Speaker 4: Like?

1536
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:35,239
Speaker 8: What was that?

1537
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 7: Like?

1538
01:21:36,279 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 4: I always tried, you know, I try to get Vince on,

1539
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:40,560
I try to get Hogan on during all of that,

1540
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:42,640
so at least I can give them a forum to

1541
01:21:43,039 --> 01:21:47,239
talk about their viewpoints in their cibity. He never, you know,

1542
01:21:47,399 --> 01:21:49,880
they never consented. It was almost like I was a

1543
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:53,720
public enemy number one at that point for them. I

1544
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:57,000
only had one conversation really with Hogan, and that was.

1545
01:21:58,479 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 6: And that was.

1546
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:07,039
Speaker 4: When I was promoting overseas tours and this was ninety

1547
01:22:07,079 --> 01:22:12,560
three ninety four, and there was interest from a promoter

1548
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,720
in Southeast Asia who wanted whole Cogan on the show.

1549
01:22:17,039 --> 01:22:20,800
And I reached out and to see, you know, if

1550
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,279
he'd be interested. And we had a pleasant conversation and

1551
01:22:23,319 --> 01:22:26,640
he knew who I was. And but he was like, hey, brother,

1552
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:28,880
I need one hundred grand and I needed upfront, and

1553
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,319
the promoters overseas weren't willing to dip that far into

1554
01:22:33,399 --> 01:22:37,399
a pool to pay somebody one hundred grand up front

1555
01:22:37,399 --> 01:22:39,000
before you know the show took place.

1556
01:22:39,239 --> 01:22:41,239
Speaker 2: Is this him coming off leaving Vincent ninety three? Is

1557
01:22:41,279 --> 01:22:41,760
that what I heard?

1558
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:48,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? That was Yeah. I promoted Southeast Asia in June

1559
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:52,479
July ninety three and then there was a yeah, it

1560
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:56,399
was right. It was after that. It was probably end

1561
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:58,279
of ninety three, early ninety.

1562
01:22:58,079 --> 01:23:01,520
Speaker 1: Four, one between w W S and w W Yeah,

1563
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,359
and that's so we have his as it was in between.

1564
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:08,479
It was in between wonderful stuff. Well, you mentioned quickly

1565
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,960
John the lies right in the documentary, and JP pointed

1566
01:23:12,039 --> 01:23:13,840
one out there with with you know, claiming he wanted

1567
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,279
to be uh just as happy to be booted in

1568
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:19,560
las as cheered. What else jumps right to mind? I mean,

1569
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:21,399
I don't need a full litany, but I'm interested in

1570
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:23,920
your what struck you right away and still sticks with

1571
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,520
you after watching that series, it's just like complete bullshit.

1572
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 4: So much you know, where do you start? Yeah, there

1573
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:37,279
was so much of it that was just his storyline

1574
01:23:37,319 --> 01:23:42,039
and the way he looked at reality so throughout, throughout,

1575
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:44,000
even though there was some really good moments in it,

1576
01:23:44,039 --> 01:23:46,119
and it was enjoyable to watch if you didn't know

1577
01:23:47,159 --> 01:23:49,479
how if you if you didn't have a deep knowledge

1578
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:54,079
of the history, then you could enjoy it as a fan.

1579
01:23:54,239 --> 01:23:56,359
But I enjoyed it too, But I I just saw

1580
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:59,920
so many things that were not true and things stories

1581
01:24:00,079 --> 01:24:04,279
that were changed and facts that were altered, and the

1582
01:24:04,359 --> 01:24:08,640
fact that his daughter wasn't a part of it was

1583
01:24:09,079 --> 01:24:12,720
there was a big, big omission and a big mistake

1584
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:17,479
and and it was it was a circus in its

1585
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,199
own way, that entire documentary series.

1586
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,680
Speaker 2: It uh to me there was one big not to

1587
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:25,359
go off on this whole thing, But there was a

1588
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:29,359
there was a in the middle, and this was just

1589
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,399
like the Vince McMahon series. There's a middle where it

1590
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:38,000
suddenly like it just stops being really about the person

1591
01:24:38,079 --> 01:24:40,800
and it's about the business. You know. It's like it's

1592
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:42,920
just it just stops being about what was going on

1593
01:24:43,079 --> 01:24:45,000
with that person and who that person was, and it's

1594
01:24:45,119 --> 01:24:51,000
just rehashing dates and moments and times and stuff, and

1595
01:24:51,039 --> 01:24:54,880
it's just like you kind of it loses itself and

1596
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:57,680
it maybe it was a distraction. I don't know, but

1597
01:24:58,319 --> 01:25:02,279
it's I always hate when when when these documentaries do that.

1598
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 4: Oh, I agree with you. I mean, look at the

1599
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:07,800
Hogan thing. It was you know, it was his project, right.

1600
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,159
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that came across a lot and clearer at

1601
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:11,840
the end. It's like, okay, yep, he actually had a

1602
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:15,000
huge hand and where things didn't didn't go. Did you, John,

1603
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:20,000
did you remember w w F fans knowing that Hulk

1604
01:25:20,079 --> 01:25:22,199
went to the AWA in eighty one and where he

1605
01:25:22,279 --> 01:25:25,359
had gone and what he was doing transforming into this

1606
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:27,640
super baby face. I mean, I'm sure you guys knew

1607
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:29,920
about Rocky three and everything, But was the a w

1608
01:25:30,119 --> 01:25:32,439
A separate and distinct enough back then that ww F

1609
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:34,239
fans wouldn't have known what he went on to do.

1610
01:25:36,279 --> 01:25:42,600
Speaker 4: I think at that point they probably wouldn't know at least,

1611
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:47,079
And I have to, I have to, you know, preface

1612
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:50,800
this by saying that even I stopped following it, I

1613
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,399
was I was done eighty one, I was done, I

1614
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,359
was out. I was working for the Mets. Then I

1615
01:25:55,359 --> 01:25:57,199
got into the music business, right and it was it

1616
01:25:57,319 --> 01:26:01,199
wasn't until it wasn't until eighty five that I attempted

1617
01:26:01,239 --> 01:26:05,760
to get back in and that didn't last. But you know,

1618
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:07,479
and then by the time I really got back in

1619
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,279
in eighty nine, you know that, you know, those eighties,

1620
01:26:10,399 --> 01:26:13,319
those early to mid eighty years where I have no

1621
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,039
recollection because I didn't I just didn't watch.

1622
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, that's that's clear. Yeah.

1623
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,079
Speaker 1: It was always a subject of fascination to us that

1624
01:26:21,119 --> 01:26:22,880
while we can watch the a WA stuff now and

1625
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,079
literally see Hulkamania start and him living, Yeah, the Rocky.

1626
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:28,359
Speaker 4: Three things, I've seen some of the some of the

1627
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:33,079
videos recently, matter of fact, from the Minneapolis area and

1628
01:26:33,199 --> 01:26:37,399
Hope really becoming hok Hogan during that time, poun I'm

1629
01:26:37,399 --> 01:26:39,359
fascinated by it, and I'm fascinated by the heat of

1630
01:26:39,399 --> 01:26:41,640
the crowd and the excitement that was being generated, and

1631
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,439
that was you know, that was a transition to him,

1632
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,039
and especially after Rocky three, My goodness, I mean that

1633
01:26:48,199 --> 01:26:50,119
was he was he was over.

1634
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:51,479
Speaker 2: He was over.

1635
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1636
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,279
Speaker 1: Heading to the next leg of our journey. Perhaps as

1637
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:57,439
we wrap nineteen eighty and looking through all Hulkogan did

1638
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,319
in the restling business and beyond, John Arezi so kind

1639
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:03,520
to join us here to reflect on his unique vantage

1640
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,960
point of this time period in WWF and the New

1641
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:07,800
York territory. It was a pleasure having you on Man.

1642
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:08,399
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

1643
01:27:09,239 --> 01:27:10,039
Speaker 4: You're quite welcome.